June 19, 2018 • 41 mins
Doug tells you why it's time for LeBron James to settle down and commit to one team in the NBA going forward. He also thinks the 1 NFL team might have a problem on their hands already at the quarterback position. Former Pacers and Magic head coach Frank Vogel joins the show to talk about the lack of big men in today's NBA and coaching young players in the league.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of the dog Dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio. Boom, What up, America, Doug got
Leap Show, Fox Sports Radio? What Up? I hope you're
having a great Tuesday. Summer is here was summer of
Lebron James. Another summer of Lebron James. Do you remember
(00:25):
when Will Smith used to own Fourth of July? You
guys remember that? Remember that? Remember Will Smith used to
own Fourth of July. Will Smith used to have had
went through Uh, I'm gonna say, what was it? Three
years in a a row, four years a row. It seemed
like where he had, where he had, you know, he
(00:46):
had I remember his Independence Day? Remember that he had
Independence Day? Right? That was one of them or some
of the other ones ramos that were that were Fourth
of July flicks. I feel like it was men in Black? Yeah? Yeah?
What about what was the one to which he was uh,
like the last survivor of the apocalypse. Remember there's also
(01:08):
there's also War of the Worlds. He was no Independent
Day was like a War of the World's one. I legend.
I think that was a Fourth of July one. There
was a time to which there was a time to
which he was um there's time to which he owned
Fourth of July. He had men in black, one, two
and three all that time of year. Wild wild West
(01:31):
was also I remember Wild wild West. I Robot I
Robot Hancock also fourth of July. So move over will
Smith and Lebron. James once again owns the summer. You
go back years ago to which uh he changed basketball
(01:51):
probably forever. When he had a press conference, a mock
press conference. He did raise two million dollars for the
Boys and Girls Club of Greenwich, Connecticut, because you know,
those tough kids in the tough streets of Greenwich, Connecticut.
I mean, the poor kids get dropped off by their nannies, like,
you know, thirty feet away in their outies and Mercedes.
I mean, that's that that's a tough place. But he
did raise two million dollars. Jim Gray, I guess, interviewed him,
(02:16):
although it was just a propagand beast. All that said,
he took his talents to South Beach. Then of course
you go back four years ago. So eight years ago
it was Summer of Lebron. Four years ago Summer Lebron,
and now this year it's gonna be some of Lebron.
But there's something I've been telling you the entire season.
(02:39):
It's one of those things. And look, I will I
would admit um, I have empathy, but I do not
have a lot of empathy or sympathy for Lebron because
it's it's there's two different levels to it. Whenever people say,
you know, Lebron he just doesn't have a good enough team,
(02:59):
there's two point he did. And some of these are
Pete like, some of these are pieces that he chose.
J R. Smith, Tristan Thompson, Kevin Loved. Those are all
decisions made by Lebron inc. And Kyrie Irving being gone
was also kind of a decision by Lebron ink. Some
guys that are there he wanted. Some guys are gone
(03:21):
because they're there weren't wanted, or they weren't brought into
the fold, or Lebron wasn't willing to commit long term.
Lebron James is thirty three years old, gonna be thirty four.
Great player. I don't believe he's better than Jordan. Was
dynamic as Jordan's. I think he's different. I think there
(03:43):
are many parts of his game to which he's obviously
a more athletic, magic Johnson. But I don't think he's
Magic Johnson as a player or Magic Johnson as a leader.
But he's an incredible weapon, and the way in which
the game is officiated and played now there there might not,
there might not. Four his era compared to other eras
he's made everyone else seems so insignificant. But even though
(04:08):
I don't have him as good as Jordan and I
think Birds, somehow, I think Birds should be in the conversation,
as should Magic. I do respect the fact that he's
been a dominant player through the last eight NBA finals
that he's gone to consecutively, But now is the time
in which he has to settle down. He has to commit, right.
(04:30):
It's we see this in college basketball, we see it
in life at your job. We see it with your marriage,
Like if you're not willing to commit long term, why
would anybody else commit to you? It does work both ways.
I have been telling you this all year long. People
like Lebron just doesn't have the team around him he
(04:53):
could have. Don't believe me. This is Adrian or Zanowski
whoach from his podcast. They could have acquired Paul George,
and I think Paul George wanted to know, well, if
Lebron commits to some years going forward, that I might
be willing to commit. And when Lebron wasn't willing to
commit to an extension, that told me they could have
(05:15):
had Paul George and they could have done that without
losing Kyrie. Um it's a very different team Kyrie Irving,
Paul George, Lebron James. So I want you to kind
of walk back this conversation or this thought in your mind.
If you think Kyrie Irving is a bad guy, so
I'm not gonna convince you of otherwise. But if you wonder, like,
why would Kyrie Irving two years left in this deal,
(05:38):
why don't you just go I want out, I want
to go to Boston. Well that's because he saw what
this seat, what this summer will ultimately become Lebron's exodus.
Whether he was tired of the day to day of
being with Lebron, or dealing with the fact that when
things go wrong it wasn't Lebron's fault, or whether he
just knew that this was coming, the fact is that
Kyrie Irving was being asked to commit long term to
(06:01):
something that Lebron James wasn't even willing to commit to
It's why I don't believe there's actually that much animous
between Lebron and Kyrie. Do they are they best friends? Know?
Did they get along? Not? Really? Couldn't have worked, sure,
But the fact is Lebron doesn't want to be there,
or at least if he wants to be there, he
is not openly committed to it. You know, you're a
(06:25):
lot of guys are gonna go through this. And I
tell people all the time, if if you know she's
the one, then she's got to be the one. But
if you don't know, then you do know. But if
you're a guy and you're dating a girl for three
or four years and you're just not willing to commit,
you can't blame her for going Like I just then
(06:45):
I'm not committed. And I look, we're all wired in
many ways selfishly to which we want people to commit
to us before wherever willing to commit to them. But
the fact is Lebron James could have had a super team,
a team that was competitive with the Golden State Warriors.
All he had to do is tell Paul George, a dude,
you coming, You're coming, I ain't leaving. And so while
(07:07):
you can sit there and say, well, he doesn't make
management decisions. He makes decisions for management that become also obvious.
He didn't trade Carrie Irving, but he didn't try and
ingratiate Kyrie Irving. They couldn't acquire Paul George, but he
didn't make it easy for them to acquire Paul George.
The prompt done this to himself. His his inability to
(07:30):
commit long term has got to end now. It just does.
It's gotta it's gotta is. There's just a stability to it.
I mean, even if it's even the engagement ring is important.
You don't even have to set the date. It's just
a commitment. It's like you know what, I went and
I did it, and I put a ring on it.
(07:52):
At some point every woman is gonna say like, look,
you gotta do this or I I have to go
and explore other opportunities. No one will us to be
forty one dating forever. We're just boyfriend and girlfriend. We
don't have kids yet, we don't have a Serra home yet,
we don't share a bank account. But we're still together.
And I understand there is something marriage and being signed
(08:14):
up long term to an NBA franchise are very very similar.
There is something a little bit unnatural, right, like, yeah,
I mean, on the other hand, there is something very
very natural and normal about wanting a place to call home.
Is it is it hard to share a bedroom, to
share a wallet, pocketbook? Is it hard to share responsibilities
(08:37):
with the same person for years? And I got seventeen
and a half almost eighteen years in it, and I'm
married to a great woman. But it's not easy, of course, not,
just like Kobe Bryant was forever a laker. First there
was the shock, they got rid of shock. Then he
wanted to be traded. Then late in his contract they
gave him a contract that he shouldn't have had coming
(08:58):
off of a torn achilles And but the fact is,
that's what marriage is about. It's about sacrifice on both sides.
And Lebron James has been unwilling to be married. And
if you're not going to be marry, that's fine, It's fine.
Lebron can do this. You don't have to be locked down.
Understand though that there are there are things that you're
(09:21):
going to miss out on. And if you know, for
a woman, there are women who don't want to be
married and they have the right to. But those women
have to know in their head you're not going to
have the white dress and the and the and the wedding.
It's going to be different and at times awkward when
you're it's it's a long term boyfriend and girlfriend, even
if your mom and dad. These are things. And so
(09:42):
for Lebron, I don't know if he has to get
married to the Lakers or whatever team is next, but
you have to understand there are downfalls to a lack
of commitment, and one of the things in which if
you're not willing to commit, there are times to which
the other side would be like, you know what, I'm
not committed to you either, And everybody says that we're
(10:05):
cool with that. I'm good with that. You know, listen,
if she wants to do other people hugging to other
people will be like over relationship, Like that doesn't that
sounds like a great idea? Sounds like a great idea.
The summer Lebron. Lebron has pushed aside Will Smith, who
used to own the fourth July now it's the NBA.
(10:26):
Kevin Durant a couple of years ago, Lebron James, you know,
now three of the last eight years. Will own this summer.
It's what everybody's gonna be talking about. But we look
back at last summer and the lack of commitment from
Lebron to stay in Cleveland ultimately led to his demise
this postseason. Maybe it's our failure to hold him accountable
(10:49):
to such a lack of of of of commitment. Bobby
Homewood says, Dude, did Doug Gottlieb just used to which
incorrectly three times? I don't know, dude. I don't script
my opening rants. If you want somebody who scripts it
with proper English and goes over and there's a station
(11:09):
that has that, it ain't this one eight seven seven
nine nine. Fox is the phone number. I think we
have ourselves a really good show. I do. Maybe that's
what that's going on my mind. I mean, he just
he's one of those things where he thinks he's doing
himself a favor, creating a sense of urgency. You know,
(11:29):
if I don't commit to them, they're gonna do more
to keep me. But I mean think about that, like,
if you're dating a woman, I'm not gonna ask her
to marry me because it's gonna make her want me.
It's gonna make her try and do more things for
me to want me, to ask her. And that's and
at some point that becomes a turn off. Even just
(11:51):
forget about the idea of marriage, even the idea of
being exclusive. Right if you dodge the idea of being exclusive,
at some point, she's gonna go like this guy ain't
done in me. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Doug gott Leaps Show weekdays at three pm Eastern
noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart
Radio app. The Best NBA Draft show is right here.
You have my show on Thursday into Fox Sports Radio.
(12:13):
Special coverage of the NBA Draft Chris Bruce sart Man,
He's covered the league for years, NBA champion Karn Butler,
and Jason McIntyre Mr mock Draft himself throughout the entire
first round the draft seven Eastern on Thursday, in addition
to the latest Lebron and Kauai rumors. That are predictions
analysis of all thirty picks in the first round. That's
Thursday Night with C B, c B and Jason McIntyre
(12:38):
at seven pm Eastern time right here on Fox Sports Tradio.
Karn Butler is an NBA champion, He is an analyst.
See him on every network that talks ball um. I
want to get to Lebron and what Adrian Wodzanowski said
in the New CP three room, I want to get
to Kauai in a second. But as you get ready
for this NBA draft, I look at DeAndre Ayton and
I think, Man, if this was it wouldn't be close.
(13:01):
But it ain't ninety two. And I know he can
shoot the ball from outside even from college three, but
his inability to protect the rim, he's not a freak
latterly Athletically, how do you think the best true center
prospect in the draft will fair once you get into
the actual NBA Uh, you know, thanks again for having
(13:22):
me on the show, Doug. I think he's gonna do great,
you know, I really do. I think from a physical
standpoint what you touched on, he's a guy that has
amazing agility. He can, you know, jump higher than pretty
much everybody else. From the athletic standpoint, he's a grown
man right now. You saw that. Uh. During the course
of this season, you know, planning at Arizona, being physical, Uh,
(13:46):
being persistent in that space with all that was going
on with that university didn't have a deep run in
the n C Double A. But look, this kid is
the real deal. He had above everyone else. I think
obviously he's gonna be the consisus be the number one
pick and when he comes to the association. I think
one of the things that's intriguing about him is that
he can step away from the basket and he has
(14:09):
the potential of having no sellings. And what I mean
by that is that he has the potential to do
just about anything. You know, he could shoot the ball,
he's gonna eventually have to put it on the floor.
You pick a pop guy, or you can utilize him
in the paint mid range. Also, I think he possessed
all those skills and abilities. All right, So if you're
(14:29):
buying in um, who's the guy that you look at
and you're like, man, I don't know if that guy
works in the NBA, that's gonna be drafted early in
the NBA draft. I wouldn't say I don't know if
you don't work, but I'm just saying, like, if you
look at a guy from a damaged goods and product
and production and being available, uh, you know, Porter Jr.
(14:51):
You know, he's a guy that you know, had the surgery,
had so many things, the back surgery and cancel workouts,
and you know, I, I just don't know what you
do in that situation. If you're a team that's looking
for a game changer, if you're in the top five,
top six position to take him, do you take the
risk or do you like trade that pick as high
(15:16):
as it is. Do you trade that pick and try
to get something that's the sure thing and that you
already seen perform at a high level. Coron Butler joining
us in the dugoutles, So let's get the guys in
the association. Look, you live in Los Angeles. You cover
the NBA for US, for ESPN, and for Turner. There's
no guy who just got out of the league that's
(15:36):
as connected as you are. There's the story going around
as that Chris Paul is telling everybody Lebron wants to
be in l A true. Absolutely, I think it is true.
I think that if you look at you know, life
at the basketball, if you look at what he's been
able to accomplish and making the seamless transition, like I
touched on last time when we was on air. You know,
(15:58):
it's layers to every be a player career. In any
sports athlete, you have the summer of your career, you
have the winner, and you have the fall. And right
now he's on the back end of his career and
no signs of declining to anything like that. But he's
not gonna play forever. He's going to play another four
to five years. And if you're thinking at it like that,
you're thinking life at the basketball. You think of your family,
(16:20):
You're thinking about being comfortable and your and you're surroundings
in Cleveland, He's maximized that space. I think that he
has one of the best sports stories in all of
sports with delivering that title. And now I think as
it's time for the next day and he's in the
media space uninterrupted. He has all these things going. He's
producing movies, filming short dots, etcetera. With spring Hill Management
(16:45):
Group Entertainment. Look, if I think l A is just
the perfect fit for him, and I think that he
will love it out here, all right. So if that's
the perfect fit, Uh, do they move Do you think
they can move pieces and get Kauie. What I talked
about yesterday was there's a lot of people say, hey,
san Antonio is not gonna trade with the Lakers, and
that's their that's their rival, that's their competition. My view is, hey,
(17:07):
look it doesn't if you win the trade, who cares
you're gonna play against the Lakers. You won the trade,
it'll look better every time you play them. The Pacers
won the trade with Oklahoma City, the Knicks won the
trade with Oklahoma City. Like, it doesn't matter what. Focus
on winning the trade, not on where you're trading him.
Do you think that Kawai to Lakers is a non
starter because their arrival of the Lakers. Yeah, I think
(17:31):
that's the same thing that happened with the Marcus Cousins
a few years back, where you know, the Kings was
offered pretty much everything picked the players and etcetera, and
they didn't pull the trigger on the deal. I don't
know if there's mitched cup check or Blody diva, but
the deal didn't happen. But I don't think the Lakers
want that to happen again, and I don't think San
Antonio want him to be in the confidence. But at
(17:51):
the same time, look, you're gonna see him anyway. He's
not the boogey man. I mean, look, this is business.
There's not nothing to be afraid of when you trade
a player, and wins are wins, losses are losses. But
San Antonio is gonna be in a rebuilding process. You know,
Uh Mano is is older. You don't know if he's returning.
Tim Duncan has retired, Tony Parker is on the back
(18:13):
end of his career. Uh Paula saw also, and there
you have LaMarcus Ardress and then you have a bunch
of uh this young guys that you're trying to build.
So look you look at the roster and and and
what team that's trying to do business with you, and
who have the most young potential and possibilities to help
you expedite this process? Lost the Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers.
(18:38):
You look at Sacramento. Are they willing to give up
the number to pick and and and and take a
chance of rental with Kawhi Leonard for a year and
possibly having him stay. So it's a lot of scenarios
out there like that. But if I'm the San Antonio Spurs,
I'm trying to get as much as possible. And I
think that the Lakers will be willing to do that. Um,
this is kind of interesting that the that agent war
(19:02):
Zanowski on his podcast had this to say about why
the Calves didn't get Paul George last summer. Take a
listen last summer, they could have acquired Paul George. And
I think Paul George wanted to know, well, if Lebron
commits to some years going forward, that I might be
willing to commit. And when Lebron wasn't willing to commit
(19:23):
to an extension, that told me they could have had
Paul George and they could have done that without losing Kyrie. Um,
it's a very different team carry Irving, Paul George, Lebron James.
How much of this is self inflicted? I know we
all thought that they were at a talent disparity in
the NBA Finals. But some of that is Lebron's own doing,
isn't it is lack of commitment to Cleveland. Wow, that's amazing,
(19:44):
and and you know what, that's that's the truth. Though.
You know, if you if you if he comes out
and he speaks and he gets with some of these guys,
you know, Lebron can actually just stay put. Like imagine
him acquiring uh, Kawhi, Leonard Now and Assimi when other
guys could come play with him, because this is a
great class of free agencies, free agent guys that's on
(20:04):
the market or possibly on the market, and you know,
the draft and trading the pics and moving up and
acquiring talent is a great time because we're just forty
eight hours away. So I think that some conversations have
to be had with his camp or with him, uh specifically,
Lebron has to let people kind of know and get
(20:24):
a little win of you know, what are you gonna
do going forward? Because you know it's it's it's the
opportunity to build something or us the part ways now,
Corn Butler, I guess in the Dug Outlet show on
Fox Sports Radio, So what happens with Chris Paul? Like
if Chris Paul goes to Houston, and I mean, do
you just resigned there for the Supermax and try and
(20:47):
stay and then and then you look at Houston like
do they want Chris Paul for the Super Macs considering
he keeps getting hurt and he's not getting any younger. Look,
I think there was a game away from you know,
going to their first finals and don't know how many years.
And Chris Paul was a huge part of it. I
think that you definitely want to keep him and and
and he gave up a lot of house money to
(21:11):
be with that team because he believed in winning and
winning now and competing against the Golden State Warriors because
they are the standard in the NBA. They're the defending
champs again, so uh, you know, Chris Paul is the
key keeper, and he's also a carrot that can possibly
get the attention of the Lebron James. You know, he's
great friends with him, their their godfather to each other children.
(21:33):
I just think that it's a amazing thing, an amazing
story if that's that that can possibly happen, even if
you get him for a rental for a year or two,
if Lebron's willing to come over there for two years,
winning the championship there account for everything, and I think
he would definitely be something that can get them over
the hurdle. The best NBA draft shows right here in
fox Port Traiting. You can listen to Karan Butler along
(21:55):
with Christophers Sorry Jason McIntyre seven pm Eastern Time, Thursday
night on Fox Sports Radio. Tough Cheesse, thanks so much
for joining us. Man. Fox Sports Radio has the best
sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our
shows at Fox sports radio dot com and within the
I Heart Radio app. Dan Labby covers the Cleveland Browns
(22:16):
for the Plane Dealer. Plane Dealer is a great job
covering the Cleveland Browns, and he had the fifteen takeaways
fifteen takeaways from O. T. A S. And one of
the takeaways was there's a lot more talent that this
team is much better organized, So there's good news on
(22:36):
the horizon. I'd love to know what the early over
under is on the Cleveland Browns. Offensively, last year they
were at least fairly competitive. Hugh Jackson is a good
offensive coach, had a bunch of draft picks. They went
out and got some more players. They got Tyrod Taylor
led the Bills to the playoffs. Interesting. Dan Labby says this,
this is where I tell you that based on the
(22:58):
six practices of O. T A S and the min
camp that were open to the media, Mayfield did not
look ready to compete with Taylor for the number one
quarterback job. Now he went back to go and say
I read the entire article where he said, like, look,
if you use history as your guard guy, there's plenty
of rookie quarterbacks we were told would never play and
ended up playing, sometimes way earlier than we ever thought possible.
(23:21):
But Tyrod Taylor looked like a veteran, look like an
absolute veteran, and he looked like a guy who had
been in the league for six years, had complete command
of the huddle. And he said, look, Mayfield, he's gonna
play eventually, but it might not even be this year.
(23:42):
And to me that's alarming, not because a rookie quarterback
isn't ready after six practices, but because it's this rookie quarterback. Look,
I don't believe the Buffalo stuff where they're man Josh Owen,
he might have to play. They're not playing him a
third trinque back. They need to sit him. Lamar Jackson. Yeah,
(24:02):
they're gonna use him as slash like he's a quarterback.
You know why, because he's not ready to play a quarterback.
Black oh is if you can use him at wide receiver,
you can use him under center every once in a while,
change the pace, let him run around because he's a
freak athlete. Why wouldn't you get him on the field.
But what we have been sold on Baker Mayfield was
hey intangibles, their football like you, their experience there. This
(24:27):
guy was a savant and he knew all the the offense.
He understood things that other college players couldn't because he'd
been in college for five years with two different systems,
even though it's kind of the same dear age system.
When Baker Mayfield comes out of his fifth year at Oklahoma,
when he's been a finalist a couple of times over
for the Heisman Trophy and he doesn't look ready to compete,
(24:51):
he didn't say he wasn't ready to be the starting quarterback.
It says, and I quote Mayfield did not look ready
to compete with Taylor for the number one quarterback job. Oi.
That's not good. That's not even close to good. All right,
we got a lot to get to this hour. We'll
talk to some NBA draft with Rashad Phillips upcoming half
(25:14):
past the hour. He has Trey Young number one on
his board. I think whoever drafts Tray Young is going
to get fired. There in lies the proverbial rub um.
All right, what do we make of these quarterback comments?
What do we make of the rookies and Lamar Jackson
(25:34):
being used as a slash and maybe Josh Allen will
play and Baker Mayfield not ready to compete. You know
what we'll do, We'll have Will Brinson on up coming next.
He'll make sense of it. That's what'll do. It'll make
sense of it. Is it believable to think that Baker Mayfield,
because look, this has happened before. Do you guys remember
(25:56):
when Heath Schuiler was drafted. If you remember Heath Schuler,
we gotta have stink on to tell the story at
some point. Mark Slayer with of course works for us.
He Schuler was um a an incredibly well regarded quarterback
coming out of the University of Tennessee. He Schuler, who,
by the way, um, I think he's a US representative
(26:19):
where he was in North Carolina? Right, So he Shuler
comes out of Tennessee and I'm gonna say he was
the third pick of the NFL draft. Yeah, it was draft.
He was the third pick. And so that year the
Washington Redskins draft Heath Schuler third, and he was going
(26:40):
to be their heir apparent. He was going to be
their quarterback. Um. And then in the seventh round, they
drafted Gus Farrott, and Gus Farrott ended up being a
much better quarterback. Although Gus Farrott I think that was
one of those years he actually headbutted the pads on
the sideline and there's cement behind it and he broke
(27:01):
his neck. But all that aside. The point was that
I remember Mark Slayra telling me the first couple of
days of practice he watched, he went over to the
coaching to have and he said, hey, how come the
seventh rounder is better than the first rounder? Can't full players?
They know? And sometimes you know early on, does Cleveland
(27:22):
have a problem kind of thing they did. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays
at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio app. Juleo Jones is holding out.
I wonder why here, Shannon Sharp. The only thing that
should make the Falcon's uneasy? Are you gonna help him
secure the bag? Because if you're not gonna give him
your money, you're not gonna pay him his money. Skill.
(27:44):
You should be feeling uneasy because he's seen Davante Adams.
He's seen Mike Evans. He's seen a family walkings. Jarvis
Landry surpassed him an average salary. So he's sitting back like,
hold on, I just saw you guys give Matt Ryan
so much money. You isn't direct deposited in one account.
You had to direct deposit like five accounts kill thirty
(28:05):
million dollars annually, a hundred and fifty million dollars. So
Julio said, hold on, bro, this is what should concern you.
If you're not gonna give him his money, there's gonna
be a problem. I don't have a problem with him
having out with TiO. He should be glad because guess
what's he ain't getting fat. You know, he's working out.
You know, Hulio's gonna come in ready to play when
you secure the bag for it. It's simple. I don't
(28:25):
believe TiO is putting negative man. You should hold out.
You should do this. TiO likes to work out, an
Tonio Brown and Old Dale and Julio they're out here
working out, So Teo joins in. TiO is not going
to influence Julio one way or another. TiO and tell
Julio to hold out. Here's the problem. It's so disingenuous
to go like, oh, man, he's only making only gonna
(28:45):
make ten and a half million dollars per year. Man,
that seems like a low salary. You should know that
next year would spike back up to fifteen million dollars
a year. He signed the front load of deal because
it had a big signing bonus, that's what it was,
and then he had a huge base salary, uh spike
last year. Look, he he signed a deal that was
(29:09):
twenty two million his first year, and then thirteen and
eleven and a half and ten and a half and
twelve and a half and then his last. His last year,
there's no signing bonus included. So it was a front
loaded contract with a roster bonus or in the first
two years eleven and a half million dollars in roster
bonuses plus five million dollars in signing bonus over the
(29:30):
first two years, and of course you take the roster
bonus out of it, he still gets signing bonus money. True,
he only has two point four essentially guaranteed in roster bonus,
and it helps the team in the cap. But it's
so you know, honestly, I'm so tired of football players
and their disingenuous way of portraying what they make and
how they make it. That's it. Tired of it all
(29:52):
these football players. We don't get guaranteed money, the hell
you don't. Whatever you get is what you hold out war.
If you want more guaranteed money, get more in the
signing bonus and the roster bonus. Now they're gonna give
you a shorter term deal because dudes always get hurt.
And yes, holding hanging out with t O? Does TEO
like to work out? Sure? Terrell Owens ran a four
(30:15):
four three. He's in the Hall of Fame and nobody
wants anything to do with him. No one's called him
for half a decade. That's why he's in the Hall
of Fame. So that's not the guy I would hang
out with, might work out with, wouldn't hang out with.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app.
(30:35):
Two thousand thirteen, two thousand fourteen, Indiana Pacers had I
mean they look they had a shot. They had an
absolute shot at the Miami Heat and the roster composition
is is and the role allocation is so different, so different.
(30:58):
They finished first in the NBA Central Division. They lost
in game six to the Miami Heat. They beat the
Hawks and seven to beat the Wizards in six. And
this is a team that remember that was before Paul
George broke his leg. Paul George's only twenty three. They
had Land Stevenson that has when Land seams and George Hill,
(31:20):
David West, Roy Hibbert a good team. But watch the
NBA playoffs now and you're like, wait, whatever happened to
Roy Hibbert? Not in the league? David West? And hello,
I grant you David West at thirty seven years old.
You know, nobody at thirty seven years old is going
to be nearly what they were at thirty three years old.
But he's also he's not a traditional but he was
(31:43):
a too early two thousand's, late nineties power forward. And
you can score some of the post. He's very good
on pick and pop, but on what's called a short roll,
you know, like an eighteen foot I mean that just
that keyhole jump shot he would make time and again,
and Hibbert's out of the league. West and maybe or
guys like West are now either shooting threes or they're
(32:05):
out of the league. Kind of fascinating how this thing
has changed. Nobody knows it better than Frank Vogel, of course,
longtime coach in the NBA. Kind of to spend some
time this year on Fox Sports Radio. Um, when was
the moment that that the shark was that the shark
jumped that all of a sudden, like a guy like
Roy Hibbert couldn't play in this league? Was it? Was
(32:28):
it those final series where they would go where where
they would go small against you guys, and he had
no one he could guard. Well, I definitely think that
contributed to it. You know, I don't know if there
was it was one moment, but um, you know we
have the number one defense in the league two years
in a row. Roy was the centerpiece of that, and um,
you know, a couple of different playoffs series, uh sort
(32:49):
of I don't want to say exposed by, but made
it difficult for us to have him out. There was
the Atlanta series where they played the point to the
point shooters, and then each of those Miamis He's ultimately
ended ended in Chris Boss playing the five and you know,
obviously they were able to prevail um. You know a
lot of a lot of different teams. UH began doing it, uh,
(33:10):
you know in small stretches and then obviously going state
uh and went to their deathline up, and you know
everybody copied them from there. So you know, I think
it was a gradual evolution and you know, certainly changing
change the way the games played today. Okay, so I
guess here's the question. You've been this game essentially the
entire professional life, right, worked your way up become the
(33:31):
head coach, the Pacers head coach, the Magic Frank Vocal
our guest on the Doug Gotler Show. I was, I
was hanging out with an Eastern Conference head coach last
week and he was telling me, like, look, it's not
coming back, like the big guy who posts up, it's
just not coming not coming back. He's like, we were,
we were holding out hope because they have a center
that they're probably gonna part ways with that. When we
(33:51):
called for the ball, they're like, we tracked. It's shot
for our big guy to scoring the low post. He's
pretty good and they're not going to change the way
they officiate. So it's a very physical game down there.
It makes it inefficient. But then I look and you
got you know, Carl Town's, you got Um, you know
Joel Embiid, you got DeMarcus Cousins, got DeAndre at and
coming in the league. They do have really good big guys.
(34:14):
Do you think it ever comes back in vogue that
you can use a true center? Well, yeah, I don't
think it's ever gonna come back to the way it was.
You know, to me, it's it's really about playing with
two bigs. Is where the game has changed over the
last you know, clab of six years, more so than
the true center. You know, I still think there's a
place for post offense, and you see that throughout throughout
(34:36):
the playoffs. You do see the balling and going to
the post, whether it's a wing player like like Lebron
or uh you watch so L and b play Um Cousins.
Do you mentioned even even you know, trying to get
Kevin Love and out Horford involved down low? You know,
as you watched the Eastern Conference playoffs, you know it's
it's it's it's always going to be a part of
the game, but it's second, it's not gonna go back
(34:57):
to the way it was, where you know you're see him.
You know the eighties where laws wan and uh dunking
or getting the ball down low twenty thirty times. Tonight
it's just not as fisting, not ast is, you know,
playing act role game and striving for for open lafts
and open threes. Frank vogar I guest in the Doug
Otlip Show on Fox Sports Radio. So DeAndre Ayton is
(35:20):
getting ready to likely be the number one overall pick,
and some of it is out of need, right you
look at at the void with the Phoenix Suns as
they don't have a true center. But how do you
this is like in football, do you take a running
back that early in the draft, like Sae Kwon Barkley
who fits that kind of the classic running back. But
you can get a running back and be fine later
(35:41):
on in the draft. You can Clint Capella can be
a great role man and can switch defensively, and you
can get a Clint Capella later on the draft. How
do you evaluate a player like Aton who can face
up doves, has some majority, but he's not a great
shop blocker and he's not really like a roll to
the rim big guy. How do you evaluate how effective
(36:01):
he can be and if you use your number one
pick on him. No, you gotta you guys, gauge and
all those things. You know, how good of a defender
is he gonna be? Is he gonna be down that
like Rudy Gobert in today's game? Is he? Is he
just going to be average? Is he? Um? Is he
gonna be extraordinary as a as a lobs that rolling
to the basket? Uh? Is he going to be a
(36:21):
short roll guy? Where's getting catching the ball in the pocket?
Or is he going to be a most effective getting
the ball in a in a low post? And you
know all those things you know you measure on a
on a one at ten scale, and um, you know
takes the totality of it and and you know then
obviously affected and all the things like i Q and
God and all those things to see what kind of
(36:42):
player are you just just gonna get? Frank volgar I
guest on the Doug Gottlik Show on Fox Sports Radio.
How difficult is the task of coaching and managing egos?
Knowing that these guys like they've gotten smart with free
agency and they're taking short deals and they're talking and
texting behind everybody's back about kind of joining up and
joining forces. How this good is putting the team together? Yeah,
(37:07):
this managing the egos, you know, it's it's uh, it's
just part of the game, you know, the way it
is when when free agents come around. Um, and even
you know, guys that aren't free agents yet but are
going to be free as as they can kind of
talk their way out of situations. Um. You know That's
why I really believe that I've always had the mindset
that you want to partner up with your guys. You
want to make them, uh, you know, as happy as
(37:29):
as as possible. And and you know a lot of
that involves, um, you know, are we being pushed here?
You know, with with whatever team that player is on,
and um, you want to make sure that your situation,
uh is clear to each player that that this is
the best situation for them and they don't need to
be looking elsewhere. Um. You you also took on a
(37:52):
completely different challenge in Orlando right where it was a
complete rebuild and you're trying to you like, your your
your torn right because as you're better off if for
the franchise, if you lose, on the other hand, for
you and your job security. You gotta win and be competitive. Um,
if you could do it all over again, would you
(38:13):
do it all over again? You know obviously you know
you look at little things you can do differently. But
you know, we we we absolutely had a long type
of quotes there. Um a unique situation for me because
our front office front office teams after year one and um,
you know you just posted the team that this is
going to be there forever. You know that That's the
(38:34):
mindset I've always had. You know, it's not about you know,
scooping up a couple of us to win here and
there to you know, quote unquote pad your stats or
whatever it makes yourself look good in terms of how
many wins you have. And um, you know, but you
have to do what's what's an investments of a franchise,
you know, and and operate them the assumption and you're
gonna be that long term you you had until he
(38:56):
was traded. You had Alfred Payton, who was really talented guard,
but he really he struggled to shoot right. And I
and I had Steve clifford On who obviously took the
Orlando job, and we talked about we didn't talk about
Trey Young per se, but there's the balance of you
really need shooting. You really need to be able to
shoot the basketball in today's NBA unless you know, unless
you're some freak like Janice you know, who can get
(39:18):
to the basket or or Ben Simmons, and even that
something gets exposed in the NBA. But the point guard position,
you really need to shoot. On the other hand, you know,
the way people play defensively now everybody's switching defensively, you
also need to guard. How how should we evaluate players
coming in the league, And the importance of shooting is
opposed to the importance of defense in into who should be,
(39:39):
for example, a point guard for a team that's trying
to rebuild. Well, I think, uh, shooting is more of
a pretium now than the sever band. And it's not
such the point guard position. I think I think every
perimeter position UH has has to have, you know, uh,
the ability to shoot the basketball or we respect it
out there. Um And and in most cases the kind
(40:00):
of position does as well. It's it's really across the board,
not just not just a point card position. So you know,
I think there's uh, you know, if you're not a
great shooter, you've got to be UM you've got to
excel in other areas. You know, that's clear, and um,
you know, I think that's what everybody's looking at with
all these these players coming into the draft and then
as in terms of the defensive end, it is a
(40:21):
switching world out there, so, um, you know, your competitive spirit,
your fight. It's not just always about your size and athleticism,
but you know, uh, you know what's your i Q.
Like you know when you're gonna switch? Are you gonna
be those guys like Andre Miller and and uh you
know Jared Dudley. You and not the most athletics, but
they're savvy enough to not get beat in switches, and um,
(40:42):
you know, you just have to evaluate all all those
types of things. It's not just about your law athleticism,
but switchability defensively and prete point shooting are obviously big premiums.
And what everybody's thinking for in issue is draft. Well, Frank,
everybody knows you can coach. I'm sure you'll be back
coaching very very soon. If not, we're just gonna keep
plucking your not college because it's it's great. Um, it's
(41:03):
it's it's so far above that of of us, of
the common man, appreciate you joining us on Fox Sports Trading.
We'll talk soon. Thanks, thanks, take care,
This is the best of the dog Dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio. Boom, What up, America, Doug got
Leap Show, Fox Sports Radio? What Up? I hope you're
having a great Tuesday. Summer is here was summer of
Lebron James. Another summer of Lebron James. Do you remember
(00:25):
when Will Smith used to own Fourth of July? You
guys remember that? Remember that? Remember Will Smith used to
own Fourth of July. Will Smith used to have had
went through Uh, I'm gonna say, what was it? Three
years in a a row, four years a row. It seemed
like where he had, where he had, you know, he
(00:46):
had I remember his Independence Day? Remember that he had
Independence Day? Right? That was one of them or some
of the other ones ramos that were that were Fourth
of July flicks. I feel like it was men in Black? Yeah? Yeah?
What about what was the one to which he was uh,
like the last survivor of the apocalypse. Remember there's also
(01:08):
there's also War of the Worlds. He was no Independent
Day was like a War of the World's one. I legend.
I think that was a Fourth of July one. There
was a time to which there was a time to
which he was um there's time to which he owned
Fourth of July. He had men in black, one, two
and three all that time of year. Wild wild West
(01:31):
was also I remember Wild wild West. I Robot I
Robot Hancock also fourth of July. So move over will
Smith and Lebron. James once again owns the summer. You
go back years ago to which uh he changed basketball
(01:51):
probably forever. When he had a press conference, a mock
press conference. He did raise two million dollars for the
Boys and Girls Club of Greenwich, Connecticut, because you know,
those tough kids in the tough streets of Greenwich, Connecticut.
I mean, the poor kids get dropped off by their nannies, like,
you know, thirty feet away in their outies and Mercedes.
I mean, that's that that's a tough place. But he
did raise two million dollars. Jim Gray, I guess, interviewed him,
(02:16):
although it was just a propagand beast. All that said,
he took his talents to South Beach. Then of course
you go back four years ago. So eight years ago
it was Summer of Lebron. Four years ago Summer Lebron,
and now this year it's gonna be some of Lebron.
But there's something I've been telling you the entire season.
(02:39):
It's one of those things. And look, I will I
would admit um, I have empathy, but I do not
have a lot of empathy or sympathy for Lebron because
it's it's there's two different levels to it. Whenever people say,
you know, Lebron he just doesn't have a good enough team,
(02:59):
there's two point he did. And some of these are
Pete like, some of these are pieces that he chose.
J R. Smith, Tristan Thompson, Kevin Loved. Those are all
decisions made by Lebron inc. And Kyrie Irving being gone
was also kind of a decision by Lebron ink. Some
guys that are there he wanted. Some guys are gone
(03:21):
because they're there weren't wanted, or they weren't brought into
the fold, or Lebron wasn't willing to commit long term.
Lebron James is thirty three years old, gonna be thirty four.
Great player. I don't believe he's better than Jordan. Was
dynamic as Jordan's. I think he's different. I think there
(03:43):
are many parts of his game to which he's obviously
a more athletic, magic Johnson. But I don't think he's
Magic Johnson as a player or Magic Johnson as a leader.
But he's an incredible weapon, and the way in which
the game is officiated and played now there there might not,
there might not. Four his era compared to other eras
he's made everyone else seems so insignificant. But even though
(04:08):
I don't have him as good as Jordan and I
think Birds, somehow, I think Birds should be in the conversation,
as should Magic. I do respect the fact that he's
been a dominant player through the last eight NBA finals
that he's gone to consecutively, But now is the time
in which he has to settle down. He has to commit, right.
(04:30):
It's we see this in college basketball, we see it
in life at your job. We see it with your marriage,
Like if you're not willing to commit long term, why
would anybody else commit to you? It does work both ways.
I have been telling you this all year long. People
like Lebron just doesn't have the team around him he
(04:53):
could have. Don't believe me. This is Adrian or Zanowski
whoach from his podcast. They could have acquired Paul George,
and I think Paul George wanted to know, well, if
Lebron commits to some years going forward, that I might
be willing to commit. And when Lebron wasn't willing to
commit to an extension, that told me they could have
(05:15):
had Paul George and they could have done that without
losing Kyrie. Um it's a very different team Kyrie Irving,
Paul George, Lebron James. So I want you to kind
of walk back this conversation or this thought in your mind.
If you think Kyrie Irving is a bad guy, so
I'm not gonna convince you of otherwise. But if you wonder, like,
why would Kyrie Irving two years left in this deal,
(05:38):
why don't you just go I want out, I want
to go to Boston. Well that's because he saw what
this seat, what this summer will ultimately become Lebron's exodus.
Whether he was tired of the day to day of
being with Lebron, or dealing with the fact that when
things go wrong it wasn't Lebron's fault, or whether he
just knew that this was coming, the fact is that
Kyrie Irving was being asked to commit long term to
(06:01):
something that Lebron James wasn't even willing to commit to
It's why I don't believe there's actually that much animous
between Lebron and Kyrie. Do they are they best friends? Know?
Did they get along? Not? Really? Couldn't have worked, sure,
But the fact is Lebron doesn't want to be there,
or at least if he wants to be there, he
is not openly committed to it. You know, you're a
(06:25):
lot of guys are gonna go through this. And I
tell people all the time, if if you know she's
the one, then she's got to be the one. But
if you don't know, then you do know. But if
you're a guy and you're dating a girl for three
or four years and you're just not willing to commit,
you can't blame her for going Like I just then
(06:45):
I'm not committed. And I look, we're all wired in
many ways selfishly to which we want people to commit
to us before wherever willing to commit to them. But
the fact is Lebron James could have had a super team,
a team that was competitive with the Golden State Warriors.
All he had to do is tell Paul George, a dude,
you coming, You're coming, I ain't leaving. And so while
(07:07):
you can sit there and say, well, he doesn't make
management decisions. He makes decisions for management that become also obvious.
He didn't trade Carrie Irving, but he didn't try and
ingratiate Kyrie Irving. They couldn't acquire Paul George, but he
didn't make it easy for them to acquire Paul George.
The prompt done this to himself. His his inability to
(07:30):
commit long term has got to end now. It just does.
It's gotta it's gotta is. There's just a stability to it.
I mean, even if it's even the engagement ring is important.
You don't even have to set the date. It's just
a commitment. It's like you know what, I went and
I did it, and I put a ring on it.
(07:52):
At some point every woman is gonna say like, look,
you gotta do this or I I have to go
and explore other opportunities. No one will us to be
forty one dating forever. We're just boyfriend and girlfriend. We
don't have kids yet, we don't have a Serra home yet,
we don't share a bank account. But we're still together.
And I understand there is something marriage and being signed
(08:14):
up long term to an NBA franchise are very very similar.
There is something a little bit unnatural, right, like, yeah,
I mean, on the other hand, there is something very
very natural and normal about wanting a place to call home.
Is it is it hard to share a bedroom, to
share a wallet, pocketbook? Is it hard to share responsibilities
(08:37):
with the same person for years? And I got seventeen
and a half almost eighteen years in it, and I'm
married to a great woman. But it's not easy, of course, not,
just like Kobe Bryant was forever a laker. First there
was the shock, they got rid of shock. Then he
wanted to be traded. Then late in his contract they
gave him a contract that he shouldn't have had coming
(08:58):
off of a torn achilles And but the fact is,
that's what marriage is about. It's about sacrifice on both sides.
And Lebron James has been unwilling to be married. And
if you're not going to be marry, that's fine, It's fine.
Lebron can do this. You don't have to be locked down.
Understand though that there are there are things that you're
(09:21):
going to miss out on. And if you know, for
a woman, there are women who don't want to be
married and they have the right to. But those women
have to know in their head you're not going to
have the white dress and the and the and the wedding.
It's going to be different and at times awkward when
you're it's it's a long term boyfriend and girlfriend, even
if your mom and dad. These are things. And so
(09:42):
for Lebron, I don't know if he has to get
married to the Lakers or whatever team is next, but
you have to understand there are downfalls to a lack
of commitment, and one of the things in which if
you're not willing to commit, there are times to which
the other side would be like, you know what, I'm
not committed to you either, And everybody says that we're
(10:05):
cool with that. I'm good with that. You know, listen,
if she wants to do other people hugging to other
people will be like over relationship, Like that doesn't that
sounds like a great idea? Sounds like a great idea.
The summer Lebron. Lebron has pushed aside Will Smith, who
used to own the fourth July now it's the NBA.
(10:26):
Kevin Durant a couple of years ago, Lebron James, you know,
now three of the last eight years. Will own this summer.
It's what everybody's gonna be talking about. But we look
back at last summer and the lack of commitment from
Lebron to stay in Cleveland ultimately led to his demise
this postseason. Maybe it's our failure to hold him accountable
(10:49):
to such a lack of of of of commitment. Bobby
Homewood says, Dude, did Doug Gottlieb just used to which
incorrectly three times? I don't know, dude. I don't script
my opening rants. If you want somebody who scripts it
with proper English and goes over and there's a station
(11:09):
that has that, it ain't this one eight seven seven
nine nine. Fox is the phone number. I think we
have ourselves a really good show. I do. Maybe that's
what that's going on my mind. I mean, he just
he's one of those things where he thinks he's doing
himself a favor, creating a sense of urgency. You know,
(11:29):
if I don't commit to them, they're gonna do more
to keep me. But I mean think about that, like,
if you're dating a woman, I'm not gonna ask her
to marry me because it's gonna make her want me.
It's gonna make her try and do more things for
me to want me, to ask her. And that's and
at some point that becomes a turn off. Even just
(11:51):
forget about the idea of marriage, even the idea of
being exclusive. Right if you dodge the idea of being exclusive,
at some point, she's gonna go like this guy ain't
done in me. Be sure to catch live editions of
The Doug gott Leaps Show weekdays at three pm Eastern
noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart
Radio app. The Best NBA Draft show is right here.
You have my show on Thursday into Fox Sports Radio.
(12:13):
Special coverage of the NBA Draft Chris Bruce sart Man,
He's covered the league for years, NBA champion Karn Butler,
and Jason McIntyre Mr mock Draft himself throughout the entire
first round the draft seven Eastern on Thursday, in addition
to the latest Lebron and Kauai rumors. That are predictions
analysis of all thirty picks in the first round. That's
Thursday Night with C B, c B and Jason McIntyre
(12:38):
at seven pm Eastern time right here on Fox Sports Tradio.
Karn Butler is an NBA champion, He is an analyst.
See him on every network that talks ball um. I
want to get to Lebron and what Adrian Wodzanowski said
in the New CP three room, I want to get
to Kauai in a second. But as you get ready
for this NBA draft, I look at DeAndre Ayton and
I think, Man, if this was it wouldn't be close.
(13:01):
But it ain't ninety two. And I know he can
shoot the ball from outside even from college three, but
his inability to protect the rim, he's not a freak
latterly Athletically, how do you think the best true center
prospect in the draft will fair once you get into
the actual NBA Uh, you know, thanks again for having
(13:22):
me on the show, Doug. I think he's gonna do great,
you know, I really do. I think from a physical
standpoint what you touched on, he's a guy that has
amazing agility. He can, you know, jump higher than pretty
much everybody else. From the athletic standpoint, he's a grown
man right now. You saw that. Uh. During the course
of this season, you know, planning at Arizona, being physical, Uh,
(13:46):
being persistent in that space with all that was going
on with that university didn't have a deep run in
the n C Double A. But look, this kid is
the real deal. He had above everyone else. I think
obviously he's gonna be the consisus be the number one
pick and when he comes to the association. I think
one of the things that's intriguing about him is that
he can step away from the basket and he has
(14:09):
the potential of having no sellings. And what I mean
by that is that he has the potential to do
just about anything. You know, he could shoot the ball,
he's gonna eventually have to put it on the floor.
You pick a pop guy, or you can utilize him
in the paint mid range. Also, I think he possessed
all those skills and abilities. All right, So if you're
(14:29):
buying in um, who's the guy that you look at
and you're like, man, I don't know if that guy
works in the NBA, that's gonna be drafted early in
the NBA draft. I wouldn't say I don't know if
you don't work, but I'm just saying, like, if you
look at a guy from a damaged goods and product
and production and being available, uh, you know, Porter Jr.
(14:51):
You know, he's a guy that you know, had the surgery,
had so many things, the back surgery and cancel workouts,
and you know, I, I just don't know what you
do in that situation. If you're a team that's looking
for a game changer, if you're in the top five,
top six position to take him, do you take the
risk or do you like trade that pick as high
(15:16):
as it is. Do you trade that pick and try
to get something that's the sure thing and that you
already seen perform at a high level. Coron Butler joining
us in the dugoutles, So let's get the guys in
the association. Look, you live in Los Angeles. You cover
the NBA for US, for ESPN, and for Turner. There's
no guy who just got out of the league that's
(15:36):
as connected as you are. There's the story going around
as that Chris Paul is telling everybody Lebron wants to
be in l A true. Absolutely, I think it is true.
I think that if you look at you know, life
at the basketball, if you look at what he's been
able to accomplish and making the seamless transition, like I
touched on last time when we was on air. You know,
(15:58):
it's layers to every be a player career. In any
sports athlete, you have the summer of your career, you
have the winner, and you have the fall. And right
now he's on the back end of his career and
no signs of declining to anything like that. But he's
not gonna play forever. He's going to play another four
to five years. And if you're thinking at it like that,
you're thinking life at the basketball. You think of your family,
(16:20):
You're thinking about being comfortable and your and you're surroundings
in Cleveland, He's maximized that space. I think that he
has one of the best sports stories in all of
sports with delivering that title. And now I think as
it's time for the next day and he's in the
media space uninterrupted. He has all these things going. He's
producing movies, filming short dots, etcetera. With spring Hill Management
(16:45):
Group Entertainment. Look, if I think l A is just
the perfect fit for him, and I think that he
will love it out here, all right. So if that's
the perfect fit, Uh, do they move Do you think
they can move pieces and get Kauie. What I talked
about yesterday was there's a lot of people say, hey,
san Antonio is not gonna trade with the Lakers, and
that's their that's their rival, that's their competition. My view is, hey,
(17:07):
look it doesn't if you win the trade, who cares
you're gonna play against the Lakers. You won the trade,
it'll look better every time you play them. The Pacers
won the trade with Oklahoma City, the Knicks won the
trade with Oklahoma City. Like, it doesn't matter what. Focus
on winning the trade, not on where you're trading him.
Do you think that Kawai to Lakers is a non
starter because their arrival of the Lakers. Yeah, I think
(17:31):
that's the same thing that happened with the Marcus Cousins
a few years back, where you know, the Kings was
offered pretty much everything picked the players and etcetera, and
they didn't pull the trigger on the deal. I don't
know if there's mitched cup check or Blody diva, but
the deal didn't happen. But I don't think the Lakers
want that to happen again, and I don't think San
Antonio want him to be in the confidence. But at
(17:51):
the same time, look, you're gonna see him anyway. He's
not the boogey man. I mean, look, this is business.
There's not nothing to be afraid of when you trade
a player, and wins are wins, losses are losses. But
San Antonio is gonna be in a rebuilding process. You know,
Uh Mano is is older. You don't know if he's returning.
Tim Duncan has retired, Tony Parker is on the back
(18:13):
end of his career. Uh Paula saw also, and there
you have LaMarcus Ardress and then you have a bunch
of uh this young guys that you're trying to build.
So look you look at the roster and and and
what team that's trying to do business with you, and
who have the most young potential and possibilities to help
you expedite this process? Lost the Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers.
(18:38):
You look at Sacramento. Are they willing to give up
the number to pick and and and and take a
chance of rental with Kawhi Leonard for a year and
possibly having him stay. So it's a lot of scenarios
out there like that. But if I'm the San Antonio Spurs,
I'm trying to get as much as possible. And I
think that the Lakers will be willing to do that. Um,
this is kind of interesting that the that agent war
(19:02):
Zanowski on his podcast had this to say about why
the Calves didn't get Paul George last summer. Take a
listen last summer, they could have acquired Paul George. And
I think Paul George wanted to know, well, if Lebron
commits to some years going forward, that I might be
willing to commit. And when Lebron wasn't willing to commit
(19:23):
to an extension, that told me they could have had
Paul George and they could have done that without losing Kyrie. Um,
it's a very different team carry Irving, Paul George, Lebron James.
How much of this is self inflicted? I know we
all thought that they were at a talent disparity in
the NBA Finals. But some of that is Lebron's own doing,
isn't it is lack of commitment to Cleveland. Wow, that's amazing,
(19:44):
and and you know what, that's that's the truth. Though.
You know, if you if you if he comes out
and he speaks and he gets with some of these guys,
you know, Lebron can actually just stay put. Like imagine
him acquiring uh, Kawhi, Leonard Now and Assimi when other
guys could come play with him, because this is a
great class of free agencies, free agent guys that's on
(20:04):
the market or possibly on the market, and you know,
the draft and trading the pics and moving up and
acquiring talent is a great time because we're just forty
eight hours away. So I think that some conversations have
to be had with his camp or with him, uh specifically,
Lebron has to let people kind of know and get
(20:24):
a little win of you know, what are you gonna
do going forward? Because you know it's it's it's the
opportunity to build something or us the part ways now,
Corn Butler, I guess in the Dug Outlet show on
Fox Sports Radio, So what happens with Chris Paul? Like
if Chris Paul goes to Houston, and I mean, do
you just resigned there for the Supermax and try and
(20:47):
stay and then and then you look at Houston like
do they want Chris Paul for the Super Macs considering
he keeps getting hurt and he's not getting any younger. Look,
I think there was a game away from you know,
going to their first finals and don't know how many years.
And Chris Paul was a huge part of it. I
think that you definitely want to keep him and and
and he gave up a lot of house money to
(21:11):
be with that team because he believed in winning and
winning now and competing against the Golden State Warriors because
they are the standard in the NBA. They're the defending
champs again, so uh, you know, Chris Paul is the
key keeper, and he's also a carrot that can possibly
get the attention of the Lebron James. You know, he's
great friends with him, their their godfather to each other children.
(21:33):
I just think that it's a amazing thing, an amazing
story if that's that that can possibly happen, even if
you get him for a rental for a year or two,
if Lebron's willing to come over there for two years,
winning the championship there account for everything, and I think
he would definitely be something that can get them over
the hurdle. The best NBA draft shows right here in
fox Port Traiting. You can listen to Karan Butler along
(21:55):
with Christophers Sorry Jason McIntyre seven pm Eastern Time, Thursday
night on Fox Sports Radio. Tough Cheesse, thanks so much
for joining us. Man. Fox Sports Radio has the best
sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our
shows at Fox sports radio dot com and within the
I Heart Radio app. Dan Labby covers the Cleveland Browns
(22:16):
for the Plane Dealer. Plane Dealer is a great job
covering the Cleveland Browns, and he had the fifteen takeaways
fifteen takeaways from O. T. A S. And one of
the takeaways was there's a lot more talent that this
team is much better organized, So there's good news on
(22:36):
the horizon. I'd love to know what the early over
under is on the Cleveland Browns. Offensively, last year they
were at least fairly competitive. Hugh Jackson is a good
offensive coach, had a bunch of draft picks. They went
out and got some more players. They got Tyrod Taylor
led the Bills to the playoffs. Interesting. Dan Labby says this,
this is where I tell you that based on the
(22:58):
six practices of O. T A S and the min
camp that were open to the media, Mayfield did not
look ready to compete with Taylor for the number one
quarterback job. Now he went back to go and say
I read the entire article where he said, like, look,
if you use history as your guard guy, there's plenty
of rookie quarterbacks we were told would never play and
ended up playing, sometimes way earlier than we ever thought possible.
(23:21):
But Tyrod Taylor looked like a veteran, look like an
absolute veteran, and he looked like a guy who had
been in the league for six years, had complete command
of the huddle. And he said, look, Mayfield, he's gonna
play eventually, but it might not even be this year.
(23:42):
And to me that's alarming, not because a rookie quarterback
isn't ready after six practices, but because it's this rookie quarterback. Look,
I don't believe the Buffalo stuff where they're man Josh Owen,
he might have to play. They're not playing him a
third trinque back. They need to sit him. Lamar Jackson. Yeah,
(24:02):
they're gonna use him as slash like he's a quarterback.
You know why, because he's not ready to play a quarterback.
Black oh is if you can use him at wide receiver,
you can use him under center every once in a while,
change the pace, let him run around because he's a
freak athlete. Why wouldn't you get him on the field.
But what we have been sold on Baker Mayfield was
hey intangibles, their football like you, their experience there. This
(24:27):
guy was a savant and he knew all the the offense.
He understood things that other college players couldn't because he'd
been in college for five years with two different systems,
even though it's kind of the same dear age system.
When Baker Mayfield comes out of his fifth year at Oklahoma,
when he's been a finalist a couple of times over
for the Heisman Trophy and he doesn't look ready to compete,
(24:51):
he didn't say he wasn't ready to be the starting quarterback.
It says, and I quote Mayfield did not look ready
to compete with Taylor for the number one quarterback job. Oi.
That's not good. That's not even close to good. All right,
we got a lot to get to this hour. We'll
talk to some NBA draft with Rashad Phillips upcoming half
(25:14):
past the hour. He has Trey Young number one on
his board. I think whoever drafts Tray Young is going
to get fired. There in lies the proverbial rub um.
All right, what do we make of these quarterback comments?
What do we make of the rookies and Lamar Jackson
(25:34):
being used as a slash and maybe Josh Allen will
play and Baker Mayfield not ready to compete. You know
what we'll do, We'll have Will Brinson on up coming next.
He'll make sense of it. That's what'll do. It'll make
sense of it. Is it believable to think that Baker Mayfield,
because look, this has happened before. Do you guys remember
(25:56):
when Heath Schuiler was drafted. If you remember Heath Schuler,
we gotta have stink on to tell the story at
some point. Mark Slayer with of course works for us.
He Schuler was um a an incredibly well regarded quarterback
coming out of the University of Tennessee. He Schuler, who,
by the way, um, I think he's a US representative
(26:19):
where he was in North Carolina? Right, So he Shuler
comes out of Tennessee and I'm gonna say he was
the third pick of the NFL draft. Yeah, it was draft.
He was the third pick. And so that year the
Washington Redskins draft Heath Schuler third, and he was going
(26:40):
to be their heir apparent. He was going to be
their quarterback. Um. And then in the seventh round, they
drafted Gus Farrott, and Gus Farrott ended up being a
much better quarterback. Although Gus Farrott I think that was
one of those years he actually headbutted the pads on
the sideline and there's cement behind it and he broke
(27:01):
his neck. But all that aside. The point was that
I remember Mark Slayra telling me the first couple of
days of practice he watched, he went over to the
coaching to have and he said, hey, how come the
seventh rounder is better than the first rounder? Can't full players?
They know? And sometimes you know early on, does Cleveland
(27:22):
have a problem kind of thing they did. Be sure
to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays
at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio app. Juleo Jones is holding out.
I wonder why here, Shannon Sharp. The only thing that
should make the Falcon's uneasy? Are you gonna help him
secure the bag? Because if you're not gonna give him
your money, you're not gonna pay him his money. Skill.
(27:44):
You should be feeling uneasy because he's seen Davante Adams.
He's seen Mike Evans. He's seen a family walkings. Jarvis
Landry surpassed him an average salary. So he's sitting back like,
hold on, I just saw you guys give Matt Ryan
so much money. You isn't direct deposited in one account.
You had to direct deposit like five accounts kill thirty
(28:05):
million dollars annually, a hundred and fifty million dollars. So
Julio said, hold on, bro, this is what should concern you.
If you're not gonna give him his money, there's gonna
be a problem. I don't have a problem with him
having out with TiO. He should be glad because guess
what's he ain't getting fat. You know, he's working out.
You know, Hulio's gonna come in ready to play when
you secure the bag for it. It's simple. I don't
(28:25):
believe TiO is putting negative man. You should hold out.
You should do this. TiO likes to work out, an
Tonio Brown and Old Dale and Julio they're out here
working out, So Teo joins in. TiO is not going
to influence Julio one way or another. TiO and tell
Julio to hold out. Here's the problem. It's so disingenuous
to go like, oh, man, he's only making only gonna
(28:45):
make ten and a half million dollars per year. Man,
that seems like a low salary. You should know that
next year would spike back up to fifteen million dollars
a year. He signed the front load of deal because
it had a big signing bonus, that's what it was,
and then he had a huge base salary, uh spike
last year. Look, he he signed a deal that was
(29:09):
twenty two million his first year, and then thirteen and
eleven and a half and ten and a half and
twelve and a half and then his last. His last year,
there's no signing bonus included. So it was a front
loaded contract with a roster bonus or in the first
two years eleven and a half million dollars in roster
bonuses plus five million dollars in signing bonus over the
(29:30):
first two years, and of course you take the roster
bonus out of it, he still gets signing bonus money. True,
he only has two point four essentially guaranteed in roster bonus,
and it helps the team in the cap. But it's
so you know, honestly, I'm so tired of football players
and their disingenuous way of portraying what they make and
how they make it. That's it. Tired of it all
(29:52):
these football players. We don't get guaranteed money, the hell
you don't. Whatever you get is what you hold out war.
If you want more guaranteed money, get more in the
signing bonus and the roster bonus. Now they're gonna give
you a shorter term deal because dudes always get hurt.
And yes, holding hanging out with t O? Does TEO
like to work out? Sure? Terrell Owens ran a four
(30:15):
four three. He's in the Hall of Fame and nobody
wants anything to do with him. No one's called him
for half a decade. That's why he's in the Hall
of Fame. So that's not the guy I would hang
out with, might work out with, wouldn't hang out with.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app.
(30:35):
Two thousand thirteen, two thousand fourteen, Indiana Pacers had I
mean they look they had a shot. They had an
absolute shot at the Miami Heat and the roster composition
is is and the role allocation is so different, so different.
(30:58):
They finished first in the NBA Central Division. They lost
in game six to the Miami Heat. They beat the
Hawks and seven to beat the Wizards in six. And
this is a team that remember that was before Paul
George broke his leg. Paul George's only twenty three. They
had Land Stevenson that has when Land seams and George Hill,
(31:20):
David West, Roy Hibbert a good team. But watch the
NBA playoffs now and you're like, wait, whatever happened to
Roy Hibbert? Not in the league? David West? And hello,
I grant you David West at thirty seven years old.
You know, nobody at thirty seven years old is going
to be nearly what they were at thirty three years old.
But he's also he's not a traditional but he was
(31:43):
a too early two thousand's, late nineties power forward. And
you can score some of the post. He's very good
on pick and pop, but on what's called a short roll,
you know, like an eighteen foot I mean that just
that keyhole jump shot he would make time and again,
and Hibbert's out of the league. West and maybe or
guys like West are now either shooting threes or they're
(32:05):
out of the league. Kind of fascinating how this thing
has changed. Nobody knows it better than Frank Vogel, of course,
longtime coach in the NBA. Kind of to spend some
time this year on Fox Sports Radio. Um, when was
the moment that that the shark was that the shark
jumped that all of a sudden, like a guy like
Roy Hibbert couldn't play in this league? Was it? Was
(32:28):
it those final series where they would go where where
they would go small against you guys, and he had
no one he could guard. Well, I definitely think that
contributed to it. You know, I don't know if there
was it was one moment, but um, you know we
have the number one defense in the league two years
in a row. Roy was the centerpiece of that, and um,
you know, a couple of different playoffs series, uh sort
(32:49):
of I don't want to say exposed by, but made
it difficult for us to have him out. There was
the Atlanta series where they played the point to the
point shooters, and then each of those Miamis He's ultimately
ended ended in Chris Boss playing the five and you know,
obviously they were able to prevail um. You know a
lot of a lot of different teams. UH began doing it, uh,
(33:10):
you know in small stretches and then obviously going state
uh and went to their deathline up, and you know
everybody copied them from there. So you know, I think
it was a gradual evolution and you know, certainly changing
change the way the games played today. Okay, so I
guess here's the question. You've been this game essentially the
entire professional life, right, worked your way up become the
(33:31):
head coach, the Pacers head coach, the Magic Frank Vocal
our guest on the Doug Gotler Show. I was, I
was hanging out with an Eastern Conference head coach last
week and he was telling me, like, look, it's not
coming back, like the big guy who posts up, it's
just not coming not coming back. He's like, we were,
we were holding out hope because they have a center
that they're probably gonna part ways with that. When we
(33:51):
called for the ball, they're like, we tracked. It's shot
for our big guy to scoring the low post. He's
pretty good and they're not going to change the way
they officiate. So it's a very physical game down there.
It makes it inefficient. But then I look and you
got you know, Carl Town's, you got Um, you know
Joel Embiid, you got DeMarcus Cousins, got DeAndre at and
coming in the league. They do have really good big guys.
(34:14):
Do you think it ever comes back in vogue that
you can use a true center? Well, yeah, I don't
think it's ever gonna come back to the way it was.
You know, to me, it's it's really about playing with
two bigs. Is where the game has changed over the
last you know, clab of six years, more so than
the true center. You know, I still think there's a
place for post offense, and you see that throughout throughout
(34:36):
the playoffs. You do see the balling and going to
the post, whether it's a wing player like like Lebron
or uh you watch so L and b play Um Cousins.
Do you mentioned even even you know, trying to get
Kevin Love and out Horford involved down low? You know,
as you watched the Eastern Conference playoffs, you know it's
it's it's it's always going to be a part of
the game, but it's second, it's not gonna go back
(34:57):
to the way it was, where you know you're see him.
You know the eighties where laws wan and uh dunking
or getting the ball down low twenty thirty times. Tonight
it's just not as fisting, not ast is, you know,
playing act role game and striving for for open lafts
and open threes. Frank vogar I guest in the Doug
Otlip Show on Fox Sports Radio. So DeAndre Ayton is
(35:20):
getting ready to likely be the number one overall pick,
and some of it is out of need, right you
look at at the void with the Phoenix Suns as
they don't have a true center. But how do you
this is like in football, do you take a running
back that early in the draft, like Sae Kwon Barkley
who fits that kind of the classic running back. But
you can get a running back and be fine later
(35:41):
on in the draft. You can Clint Capella can be
a great role man and can switch defensively, and you
can get a Clint Capella later on the draft. How
do you evaluate a player like Aton who can face
up doves, has some majority, but he's not a great
shop blocker and he's not really like a roll to
the rim big guy. How do you evaluate how effective
(36:01):
he can be and if you use your number one
pick on him. No, you gotta you guys, gauge and
all those things. You know, how good of a defender
is he gonna be? Is he gonna be down that
like Rudy Gobert in today's game? Is he? Is he
just going to be average? Is he? Um? Is he
gonna be extraordinary as a as a lobs that rolling
to the basket? Uh? Is he going to be a
(36:21):
short roll guy? Where's getting catching the ball in the pocket?
Or is he going to be a most effective getting
the ball in a in a low post? And you
know all those things you know you measure on a
on a one at ten scale, and um, you know
takes the totality of it and and you know then
obviously affected and all the things like i Q and
God and all those things to see what kind of
(36:42):
player are you just just gonna get? Frank volgar I
guest on the Doug Gottlik Show on Fox Sports Radio.
How difficult is the task of coaching and managing egos?
Knowing that these guys like they've gotten smart with free
agency and they're taking short deals and they're talking and
texting behind everybody's back about kind of joining up and
joining forces. How this good is putting the team together? Yeah,
(37:07):
this managing the egos, you know, it's it's uh, it's
just part of the game, you know, the way it
is when when free agents come around. Um, and even
you know, guys that aren't free agents yet but are
going to be free as as they can kind of
talk their way out of situations. Um. You know That's
why I really believe that I've always had the mindset
that you want to partner up with your guys. You
want to make them, uh, you know, as happy as
(37:29):
as as possible. And and you know a lot of
that involves, um, you know, are we being pushed here?
You know, with with whatever team that player is on,
and um, you want to make sure that your situation,
uh is clear to each player that that this is
the best situation for them and they don't need to
be looking elsewhere. Um. You you also took on a
(37:52):
completely different challenge in Orlando right where it was a
complete rebuild and you're trying to you like, your your
your torn right because as you're better off if for
the franchise, if you lose, on the other hand, for
you and your job security. You gotta win and be competitive. Um,
if you could do it all over again, would you
(38:13):
do it all over again? You know obviously you know
you look at little things you can do differently. But
you know, we we we absolutely had a long type
of quotes there. Um a unique situation for me because
our front office front office teams after year one and um,
you know you just posted the team that this is
going to be there forever. You know that That's the
(38:34):
mindset I've always had. You know, it's not about you know,
scooping up a couple of us to win here and
there to you know, quote unquote pad your stats or
whatever it makes yourself look good in terms of how
many wins you have. And um, you know, but you
have to do what's what's an investments of a franchise,
you know, and and operate them the assumption and you're
gonna be that long term you you had until he
(38:56):
was traded. You had Alfred Payton, who was really talented guard,
but he really he struggled to shoot right. And I
and I had Steve clifford On who obviously took the
Orlando job, and we talked about we didn't talk about
Trey Young per se, but there's the balance of you
really need shooting. You really need to be able to
shoot the basketball in today's NBA unless you know, unless
you're some freak like Janice you know, who can get
(39:18):
to the basket or or Ben Simmons, and even that
something gets exposed in the NBA. But the point guard position,
you really need to shoot. On the other hand, you know,
the way people play defensively now everybody's switching defensively, you
also need to guard. How how should we evaluate players
coming in the league, And the importance of shooting is
opposed to the importance of defense in into who should be,
(39:39):
for example, a point guard for a team that's trying
to rebuild. Well, I think, uh, shooting is more of
a pretium now than the sever band. And it's not
such the point guard position. I think I think every
perimeter position UH has has to have, you know, uh,
the ability to shoot the basketball or we respect it
out there. Um And and in most cases the kind
(40:00):
of position does as well. It's it's really across the board,
not just not just a point card position. So you know,
I think there's uh, you know, if you're not a
great shooter, you've got to be UM you've got to
excel in other areas. You know, that's clear, and um,
you know, I think that's what everybody's looking at with
all these these players coming into the draft and then
as in terms of the defensive end, it is a
(40:21):
switching world out there, so, um, you know, your competitive spirit,
your fight. It's not just always about your size and athleticism,
but you know, uh, you know what's your i Q.
Like you know when you're gonna switch? Are you gonna
be those guys like Andre Miller and and uh you
know Jared Dudley. You and not the most athletics, but
they're savvy enough to not get beat in switches, and um,
(40:42):
you know, you just have to evaluate all all those
types of things. It's not just about your law athleticism,
but switchability defensively and prete point shooting are obviously big premiums.
And what everybody's thinking for in issue is draft. Well, Frank,
everybody knows you can coach. I'm sure you'll be back
coaching very very soon. If not, we're just gonna keep
plucking your not college because it's it's great. Um, it's
(41:03):
it's it's so far above that of of us, of
the common man, appreciate you joining us on Fox Sports Trading.
We'll talk soon. Thanks, thanks, take care,
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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