June 29, 2018 • 37 mins
Filling in for Colin, Doug Gottlieb discusses the latest trade rumors between the Los Angeles Lakers and the San Antonio Spurs, why the Spurs have almost no leverage, and why free agent LeBron James needs to make the first move. Also Ryen Russillo stops by to discuss NBA free agency. Presented by Perky Jerky.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Thread is a new hit podcast from Ozzy Media
that explores history surprising connections in order to discover how
one thing leads to another, like how movie moguls in
early Hollywood helps spark the me Too movement. Today, get
it on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen with
Colin out Here's Doug Gotlin. What up? Welcome in. This
(00:22):
is lard In Court Colin Cowherd, slightly younger, much more
devon Here, I'm Doug Gottli wherever you may be, however
you may be listening to the show. Thanks so much
for making us part of your day. Live from still
overcast school, Los Angeles, where we, unlike many of you
(00:44):
in the Midwest and soon on the East Coast, experience
and a heatwave. Uh, it's gonna be seventy five of
the beaches, eighty in the basin, nine in the valley
every day, and then of course get a little hotter.
I think the end of next weekend summer will fully
your right. But the summer of Lebron has has has begun.
Lebron James opts out of his contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers.
(01:06):
That came down the line from various Twitter handles earlier day.
That is not a surprise. Not a surprise. Uh, Lebron
James has won every right to opt out. That's why
his contracts were written as such, and too, being opted
in when you can make more money and control your
own destiny. Outside of that, what was really you know,
(01:27):
why would he do it? So Lebron? Lebron opts out
and Lebron is a free agent. And oh yeah, by
the way, I'm not sure if you guys are aware,
but today, the twenty nine of June is Kauai Leonard's birthday,
Happy birthday, and the Spurs wished him happy birthday. Never
(01:51):
has a Twitter handle been so awkward since? Uh? I
guess probably when the Toronto Raptors congratulated Dwayne Casey on
being the Coach of the Year after he was fired
as their head coach. I love NBA Twitter, I really do.
So here's where we stand as of today. Various reports
yesterday about the Lakers and the Celtics engaged in talks
(02:16):
regarding Kawai Leonard. The Celtics, per their reports, noncommittal about
who they'd include in the deal, whereas the Lakers, uh,
the home run package has not been landed, and so
I'm sure they're they're dipping their toe into the Kauai
Kauai waters understanding that there's a reason that Magic said
(02:39):
what he said a couple of days ago. We'll get
to that, and then you have Lebron James. Now, I'll
give you what I I know based upon the people
I know and trust in the NBA, and then i'll
give you in a second what I think about Lebron
and the sitting waiting for something to happen before he
(02:59):
makes that move. Let's let's start with what I know.
If you you're gonna sit here and tell me that
the Celtics are going to include Kyrie Irving in a trade,
I'm going to stop listening to what you're saying. I
don't think this. I know this based upon two people
I know in the Celtics front office that they love
(03:22):
Kyrie and he loves playing there, and they believe that
Kyrie Irving he's not the best point guard in the league.
He's right there in the discussion and they know that
he's a part of it fits into how they do
what they do and why they do it. The only
concern with Kyrie Irving would be the knee right and
that he had. If you know anything about the injury
(03:44):
that he had, it was four years ago. Four years
ago he had his his kneecap broke against the Golden
State Warriors in Game one of the NBA Finals, a
game in which the Calves lost in overtime. He had
three screw is put in they needy wire that tied
him all together. First surgery this year was to take
the wire out because it was irritating him underneath the skin.
(04:06):
Can you just imagine that, like the feeling of switching
and scratching and underneath the skin. That sounds so painful.
And then he had the three screws removed because one
of them looked like it could be infected. If the
knee bone, if the kneecap itself gets infected, now you've
got a major problem for the rest of his life,
not just the rest of his career. They believe is
Nei'll be fine. That's their only concern. They think Kyrie
(04:31):
is a better defensive player than you think. They think
he's a better passer than you think. And they already
know that everybody knows what a great score he is,
especially in and around the basket and oh yeah. By
the way, while Lebron made one of the great defensive
plays in the history of the NBA blocking Andrea Guadala
a couple of years ago in Game seven, it was
Kyrie who at times carried them offensively and made the
(04:52):
big three. None of these facts are lost on the
Boston Celtics. More than anything. The Boston Celtics are run
by a coach who's brilliant, and they believe Kyrie Irving
is brilliant. They get him, he gets them, not changing.
In addition, I've heard, well, what was you though, Gordon
Hayward in there? How good is Gordon Hayward? Gordon Hayward
(05:13):
isn't just really good? He was an All Star going
back a year ago with Utah Jazz. Harder to be
an All Star in the West, especially in a place
like Utah. He's gotten better every year in his career.
He can guard and play four positions on each side
of the floor. He doesn't have to be the leading
score the best player, superstar. He's getting his money. Is
very very happy. But more than anything, he did, in
(05:34):
fact play for Brad Stevenson College. That does matter. In addition,
he too likes the culture of the Celtics, those two
aren't going anywhere. And then you have well Jayson Tatum,
who if if it was a one for one Tatum
for Kauai, I would probably do it. The problem is
(05:55):
that it's not simply that easy, okay, Jason Tatum is
on a rookie contract for three more years. Kawhi Leonards
got one more year, and they have no idea, nor
they've been given any thoughts that Kauai would want to stay.
So three years of Jayson Tatum not yet in the
prime of his career, or one year of Kawuahi Leonard.
And if you remember when Gordon Hayward signed with the
(06:18):
Celtics when they traded for Kyrie Irving, one of the
statements that Danny Ainge made was that both of them
fit in age wise and career wise to their plan
to be successful and competitive during a certain stretch of time.
Like they don't want there are the two cows the
top of the pastors. They're not the one that wants
to run down and run back. They want to walk
(06:40):
down and stay down for a while. So then you're
left with Jalen Brown, draft picks, Harry Rogier, other backups,
and even then the Celtics are like, look, we do it,
but we have no idea if he'd stay. Don't be fooled.
(07:01):
NBA teams league stories to our NBA NBA writer brethren,
the Lakers are the destination for Kawhi Leonard this year
or next year. He has let it be known to
everybody in the league that's where he wants to play.
Do the best you can. If not, we'll do this
dance next year. I'll just go and you won't get anything.
(07:22):
And the people who are leading you to believe that
the Spurs have leverage of the San Antonio Spurs, they
don't do this very often. They have a great general manager,
great front office, but you don't You don't ever see
them engaged in trade talks with their star players. And
the team I would least want to do business with
is not the Lakers. It's the Celtics because they keep
(07:44):
winning all these damn trades. So by my estimation, it
feels like the Kauai thing will probably get done. The
only question with the Lakers is are you would you are?
Are you willing to play hardball? Are you willing to say, hey,
you know what, we're not giving the Ingram and Kuzma.
We'll give you one or the other. That's a fair trade.
(08:07):
We'll give you a couple of draft picks and you'll
give us somebody who doesn't want to be there. I
think that's the question, you know, when you walk in
a negotiation, are you willing to walk away? Is your
level of confidence? Magic Johnson said earlier this week, Remember
he was laughing. People killed him for saying, Hey, if
(08:27):
I don't get guys in the next two years, I'll quit.
You don't have to fire me. You feel like Magic
Johnson is not speaking out of turn here. He feels
that Kauai is coming regardless. So either give him to
us now or await a year and give it to
us then. But are you willing to walk away from
the table, especially with Paul George, who you could have
(08:48):
had last year, but maybe he didn't have the assets
to pull off the move, or maybe Indiana didn't want
to give into his wishes and trade him to the Lakers. Well,
whatever the reason is, last year, you didn't do it.
Now you might not yet, Paul George. This is the
Herd podcast. I do love the the Kawhi Leonard. His
uncle is upset because when they re up to shoe deal.
(09:09):
Wasn't a big wasn't a big boon money wise? Like, Look,
we could say it's because san Antonio and san Antonio
is kind of boring, but it should be pointed out
that Kawhi Leonard is really boring. Like I think Kawie
Leonard is great, not good great. I'm going to say,
third best player in the NBA plays both ends, can
post up, can haild the ball, become a much much
(09:32):
better shooter than I think anybody thought possible, and can
guard all those positions. But if you think playing in
San Antonio is the only reason that he got short
change in his shoe deal, come on, there's a personality
in there. No, there's not. It's okay, Like, we don't
(09:52):
all have to have big personalities. We don't all have
to have, you know, cameras in front of us to
be comfortable and be a salesman. No, no, no, I
know who you are. Nonetheless, it does. Uh, there's uh,
there's a lot of stories out there. This one is great.
San Antonio has informed teams it preferred target in any
(10:15):
in any a Kawhi Leonard trade the Celtics is Jason
Tatum teams have noted this is likely a negotiation tactic.
Widely believed in league circles that Boston is more likely
to propose a deal center on Kyrie Irving and future picks,
but based upon previous behavior, the Celtics are unlikely to
overpay for Leonard. I've talked to his Celtics source, and
they're like, we're not trading Kyrie and we're not trading
(10:36):
Jayson Tatum. What else you got? Philadelphia's internal discussions have
focused on potential trade packages offering various young players and
future draft selections. One team source says preliminary discussions with
San Antonio revealed the Spurs have a strong interest in
the package of burging forwards Dario Sarch Robert Covington, as
(10:56):
well as future first round picks. A potential more serious
offer Philadelphia's weighing internally includes Sarry Covington and the two
thousand twenty one Miami Heat unprotected first round pick the
Celtics obtained in their Draft Night deal with the Phoenix Suns.
Like two thousand twenty one? What like? Well, are like,
(11:20):
we don't know what the age restriction is going to be,
we don't know what the draft is gonna look like
we don't know if the Miami Heat are going to
be any good by them. That is betting up. I'll
tell you what, the Miami Heat are gonna be terrible
in two thousand twenty one. Let's gobble up that pick.
We don't even know if we're gonna have a lottery
system by them. Now do they change the lottery deal
(11:41):
in one offseason? They're gonna change it again at some point.
I mean that is the use of That is trusting
the process to the nth degree. I mean, if you
can tell me what's gonna happen in two thousand twenty one,
I need you to buy some stocks for me right now,
right because because all of these same people, I'm sure
(12:01):
you thought, you know two years ago, Donald Trump is
going to be president, right, Oh yeah, I saw that
one coming. Cubs are gonna break the curse, The Celtics
are gonna have the best young town in the NBA.
And oh yeah, by the way, the Calves are gonna
come back from three one down. You could have told
me that any of these things two years in advance,
(12:21):
three years in advance, I can tell you this. The
Heat are gonna be crumbing two thousand one. Okay, good,
good to know. Noted, sometimes we gotta do business with
unsavory types, right, you just do. Sometimes you gotta do
business with unsavory types. I mean really, that's the reason
(12:42):
that so many of these apps apps now have taken
place of of buying tickets from a scalper, right, because
he's just Even if the scalper is a regular looking dude,
you're like, hey, he's still a scalper, but now you
picked the secondary ticket market is has become like a
legitimate business enterprise where it always used to be. You
(13:04):
go to the corner, a guy would held up a
sign said I need two tickets. By the way, trying
to explain to somebody who doesn't understand why they hold
up as signs as I need two tickets, why they
actually don't need two tickets is a great That's like
an Abbott and Costello who's on first conversation. Why does
he have a sign up says I need two tickets, Well,
(13:25):
he doesn't actually need two tickets. He wants to sell
you two tickets, So why doesn't he have it? Signs
says up, I want to sell you two tickets. You
gotta understand how the laws are written against scalping and
it's just kind of the thing we all do. That's
that makes no sense. It makes total sense if you've
ever been to a ball game before. Anyway, I was
thinking about Breaking Bad and Ryan Music is my producer.
(13:47):
He he's like me. Everyone tells him, you gotta do
Game of Thrones. God, have you done Game of Thrones?
I have not done. You've done sans Sons of Anarchy?
I have not done either. I can't have a conversation
with you until you you watch those two What are
you doing? What do you what do you even watch?
But you watch those like HDTV shows? Yeah? I do.
(14:07):
Sorry House Hunters International, which I mean they I always
pick out the worst places in House Hunters in the National. Yeah.
We thought we were gonna live on like four dollars
and turns out like five thousand dollars and it's but
we're gonna do it. Just We're gonna just do it. Uh.
I was. I was that guy with Breaking Bad. I
was to be a long time. And I want to
(14:29):
point this out. I think Breaking Bad is awesome. It
is not the best television show ever. What it might
be is might have the best premise of a television
show ever. Colin says this all the time, and he's right.
I'm Doug got thea been for Colin. By the way,
this is the Herd on Fox Sports Radio says it
all times. If you can, if you tell me what
(14:49):
it is in two sentences, and I like it, you
got yourself a show, right, two or three sentences? Can
you tell me what it is? And breaking bad? Chemistry
teacher has cancer sells meth to pay for his cancer treatment,
like I'm in And what a great premise, all right?
(15:11):
What an in Like Wow, becomes the world's most renowned
meth chef because of his background as a chemistry teacher
that he initially used. He initially got into because he
wanted to pay for cancer treatment and he couldn't afford
to do so. Otherwise. It's amazing, right, really amazing. I
(15:31):
don't think it's the best it's the best TV show ever.
I don't Cheers is the best TV show ever, sure where,
But I think the premise of it is amazing. And
here's the thing. I don't think Walter White wanted to
sell meth. That's part of the the He did have
(15:53):
this internal evil side which ultimately comes out right. It's
the opposite of better Call Saul, which is the spin
off the pre will to it to which Saul is
a bad guy that some somehow kind of becomes a
good guy. Walter White's a good guy that becomes a
bad guy. It's amazing. The point is, I don't think
he really wanted to, but in order to get everything
(16:14):
paid for all cash, it is what you have to do.
And then if you're gonna sell meth, you don't want
to sell to the cartel, but you're gonna sell it yourself.
You're gonna put yourself out in the front line. We
saw how that worked out. The Spurs don't want to
deal to the Lakers. They don't, I mean, do they
want to give the Lakers Kawai and Leonard. If they do,
(16:36):
you give them Lakers Kawhi learned in anything, and you
let them keep anything that they have, it would be
assumed you're giving them a shot at an NBA title.
And and while the Spurs have been the picture of consistency,
the Lakers have been a laughing stock. We're talking five
years now between the end of like look, the Spurs
(16:58):
laugh at the idea. Kobe Brown and had one of
the most incredible last games. He He basically was Derek Jeter, Right,
Derek Jeter goes five for five in his last game.
Is Yankee? Kobe Bryant has sixty in his last game.
I mean, I don't care how hard you think somebody's playing.
To have sixty in an NBA game, period is superhuman.
To do it when you got bad achilles, a bad knee,
(17:19):
and it's your last NBA game and everybody's and you
you dropped sixty. It was insane. But the Spurs are
sitting over there laughing, like, yeah, they're celebrating Kobe going
for sixty in a meaningless game. Meanwhile, we're preparing to
try and get an NBA championship. They can't get high
quality free agents. We get LaMarcus Aldrich whenever we wanted one,
and we already had a center. We had Tim Duncan,
(17:41):
we got his Arab parents. So the so the Spurs,
they take great joy in the downfall of the Lakers
as much as you could, as much as I mean
you can point to the Lakers were between the Spurs
and winning back to back championship. Remember the Spur Many
people don't consider myself include you can't consider them a
(18:02):
dynasty because they never went back to back titles. Every
other dynasty in NBA history has went back to back titles,
the exception of the Spurs. Now, the Spurs should have
beaten Lebron the first time around. When the misfree throws uh,
they should have done a better job of defending uh,
you know, you know, defending the late game situation, Derek
(18:24):
Fisher hitting that ball fish ball fish ball fishy fish
net point four seconds to go. I mean, but the Spurs.
The Lakers stood in between the Spurs and being seen
as the greatest modern day dynasty in NBA history is
a fifteen to twenty year run. It's really amazing. They
(18:46):
don't want to but Kauai wants to be there. Everybody
knows Caui wants to be there. That hurts his value elsewhere.
Only has one year left in his deal, so even
if you get him, you get basically nine months to
convince him that no, no, he's wrong. He doesn't want
to be an l a And oh yeah, by the way,
the Lakers actually have some really good pieces to offer,
not just first round picks, but it's some young players
(19:07):
like this is a deal with the devil that you
probably gotta make. This is the Walter White decision. I've
always done things the right way, but I'm gonna swallow
heart and cook some meth in an RV somewhere outside
of Albuquerque, New Mexico. I'm gonna sell it for, you know,
(19:29):
with the intention of paying off my cancer treatments, which
is the bizarre comparison. San Antonio Spurs loading themselves up
for a future run. You got de Jont Murray. They
believe their point guard of the future LaMarcus Alts. They've
gotten way more out of him than anyone could have
thought possible a year ago when he wanted out. Draft picks,
(19:51):
young players, great talent evaluation. The Spurs will be solid
until they land their next star, which they have in
the past, whether it's an their national one like Genoblee
or Parker or a domestic one. I know that Tim
Duncan comes from the Islands, but he's still played in
the States. Even Kawhi letter to Draft day trade fifteenth
(20:11):
pick in the draft. They've been able to evaluate better
than anybody. They don't want to, but they have to
catch the herd. From noon to three Eastern on I
Heart Radio and f S one. Let's welcome in a
good friend of mine, good friend of Collins as well.
He's got his own podcast, it's a really good one.
When he's had his own national radio show, it's been outstanding.
He's Ryan Solo. He joins us here in the Herd
(20:33):
on Fox Sports Radio. Um, did I miss anything in
terms of what we what we think as of right now? No,
that was really good. I forgot I was coming on
as a guest there for a second. No, no, no,
that way like that was really good. I was laughing
about the Game six joke because I felt the same
way about Westbrook in that game. But the Paul George
things is like, and I know that we're supposed to
(20:55):
pronounce it differently now, but I'm just not going to
do that. Um, how are we supposed to announce it? Well,
you no tell me to say, don't know? I think
cool people say abisa abisa? Yeah, that was like, yeahs
with with a th th who's the golfer like that?
What's the guy with the with the ponytail whom? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Amenace,
(21:21):
I just did it again. Yeah, alright, alright, So if
it's Abitha then we also have to say, you know,
scores are nil and h you know, we have to
use other predencia anyway. Okay, so I totally interrupt your flow.
I apologize. No, No, I just think it's funny Paul
Georgia staying with Okay, see, um, he has this five
(21:42):
part sports center thing that he's doing. So they were
probably like, look, we can't just not do anything here,
you know, like you're gonna have to go visit somebody
so we get some footage. Uh, you know, if he's
not going to leave as a free agent, that's not
as nearly exciting television. So let's start with the Lebron thing. Um,
didn't didn't stay with Cleveland, the opt out. We knew
that was gonna happen, and knew that was gonna happen
(22:03):
this week. And now you're left with if Cleveland isn't play,
could they have done anything? Do they know of any
deal as they can do to improve that team? Because
I had a hard time believing that Lebron would go
back to Cleveland if nothing had changed, but I had
never ruled Cleveland out. I still think it's l A
Cleveland and Philadelphia. Now the l A part of This
is really weird because it's sent the sense is Doug
that more and more people are like, you know, George
(22:25):
might just do a one in one here or a
two year deal and then hit the market again when
he has more service time and get an even bigger contract,
which seems so weird, not because the money part, but
just him not going to l A. When he told
the Pacers this whole soccer starter who were two years ago,
when he told the Pacers, hey, man, like, whatever you
guys want to do, but I'm going to l A.
And now he's gonna stay in Oklahoma City. So if
(22:46):
George is out in l A and the Spurs Kauai
thing has selled up with the Lakers, I can't fathom
that Lebron would go to the Lakers by himself. That again,
if Cleveland has improved itself, but I'd like that would
be as unlikely of any scenarios, for get the trade,
the different things like Lebron going to play with that
young core with no certainty of any other start joining him.
(23:07):
I still can't fathom that that would happen. But you know,
I'm kind of at a lost year as it seems
like less guys are moving around. Yeah, I got offered
this as a different perspective. Um, didn't he enjoy playing
with the younger guys in the regular season once they
made that trade? Like, you still want people. You still
want to walk in the building and be like, oh hey, Lebron, Lebronze,
(23:28):
Lebron's here right. Like I understand in the playoffs order
to win big you have to have some experience. But
if we we look at Miami, he didn't win his
first year. We look in Cleveland, he didn't win his
first year. That he got to the finals in both
of those years. Um, couldn't you sell him on? Hey, dude,
don't you just come? If you come, Paul's probably coming,
Kauai is definitely coming. But more than anything, like, spend
(23:49):
a year, get to know all of us, get to
know the young pieces. See guys you like, see guys
you don't like. You're not gonna win this year anyway.
Next year is the year in which you can pick
and choose. If you don't love those guys, maybe get Clay.
You could be you know, Jimmy Butler. You can pick
from whatever you want. Why don't just come? Like and
if you're by the way, if he's staying in Cleveland,
He's had all season to figure out a way to
(24:11):
stay in Cleveland, to get a deal made, to have
something already done. I just I feel like sometimes we
want the table to be perfectly set for him, and
that's maybe what he's used to, But isn't at least
a thought go with the young guys, elevate all of
their games, and then pick and choose who you want
to add next. Well, I see what you're saying there,
(24:31):
because there's one major thought in that is that why
would Paul George come after Lebron decided to go to
l A? Like these guys talk to each other. He
is close with Paul George, Like, why would they be
keeping in a secret from each other. I can understand
Lebron's camp and them being very tight with all this stuff.
They do a great job with it and them not
you know, giving any kind of tell here. But if
(24:53):
I'm Lebron, I'm not if I want to print a fall,
It's like, I know if he's staying in Oklahoma City
or not. See what I'm saying, Like he he's not
gonna sign him, Like, Hey, l A, I'm coming, I'm
gonna do a one year at an option. I'm gonna
do the shorter term thing, even though Lebron is gonna
be looking for the longer one here soon. Um, you know,
I'm just gonna come to l A and then I'll
see what happens. He would already have the answers to
that by being able to talk to all of these
(25:14):
other guys, like the Durant news that he talked to
Durant that that was sexy, but it doesn't mean any good.
Durant's not doing it and he's not leaving Golden State.
But it's also part of the bigger thing here of
this off season that that Lebron talked to all of
these guys so to me, like it isn't news, but
it also means that he should have gathered information that's
all of a sudden like what is Paul George is
not going to tell Lebron ultimately, like what he's gonna do.
(25:35):
Like if Lebron called George and say, hey, what are
you doing, I'm not telling you dude, And I mean
to be very official to both part, but but you
also you also know you also know I would say this, um,
and and I pushing guys over that threshold, right, like, look,
you walked away from your radio show is to me
as an ballsy move. He did. That took some nuts
(25:58):
to do. It's a hard thing to do. And and
as much as you could say, like, hey, Paul, you
know he went and saw Dwyane Wade, he said, the
bronze cool. You know it's l A. It's the Lakers.
You know how many times have how many times do
you threaten to move to l A when you didn't
do it? How many different guys have we said, well,
I'm walking out that building and they didn't do it.
(26:18):
It's just that that last little push. I could see
whether they're communicating, and he's like, I think I'm coming.
I think, you know, I just I need some time.
I need to think it over. And he's, you know,
he's kind of replay. And again, some of this is
he's remembering it a lot more fondly than he should
remember it. Like, all, if I'm the Lakers, my pitch
to Paul George's just turn on the Game six tape.
And it was awful, right, it was. It was horrendous.
(26:41):
Watch that Game six tape like you want more of this,
more for another year. But I mean, but the fact
that he was out there and it hasn't dawned on
him yet. But hey, dude, this is never going to change.
This book thing is never going to change. But what
you hear about Paul George, and it's not a bad thing,
is that he's more impressionable that that he might be
the guy the day of it's like, hey, I'm I
love it here, Like this is awesome. I love working
(27:03):
out Westbrook. Like I have heard this from numerous people
this offseason that George really likes Westbrook. So even though
we watch it from a basketball standpoint and go, how
could anybody really enjoy this Westbrook thing? And I don't
want to fight with Oklahoma City, there's enough evidence out
there that it isn't fun to play with Westbrook and
George somehow like whatever that is. It's it's potentially here,
(27:25):
you know, because we still don't know for certain here,
But it's just the rumblings are that that I just
haven't heard from as many people are like, Okay, yeah,
he's gonna bounce. That heard from one agent, you know,
a couple of months ago, and then flam Mackison ran
with it and said that I was reporting Georgia's leaving
and that's not even closer that But that's what everybody does. Now, Um,
you're right, like you would think that would be part
of the pitch, But I mean, why would he have
to go back and watch it when he was out
(27:46):
there with By the way, I'm gonna aggregate all your
thoughts and repeat them in my next segment. That's what
I'm gonna because that's that's what we've become. Ryan Rossillo
joining us in the Herd here on Fox Sports Radio.
I do think I think guys like I think guys
like offseason Russ, I think they rust the guy. I
think Russ is a human being, is a great human being.
I really I would agree with those I've never heard
(28:06):
of anybody say like I don't like Russell Westbrook. I
just think, you know, when like just to jump in
real quickly. Remember that play where Westbrook was trying to
get like the tenthest shifts and they were against the
Warriors beleave yes, and the Warriors were laughing at him
on the bench. They were laughing at the eventureus. They
were mad that the guy didn't take the shot. And
it was like that told me, I think there's these
little moments like when Kobe told Dwight Howard, I know
who you are. That's all I ever needed to know
(28:27):
about Dwight Howard, despite mountains of evidence that you know,
would also prove that Dwight's not the greatest teammate. I
thought that moment told you a lot. Like dude, he's
doing it again, and Durant sitting there and laughing, go on,
this is so much more fun, Like I think that's
a real thing. Yeah, I do too, I do too.
I think it would be. Now there is the other
side to it, which which no one brings up. Is
it really fun to play with Lebron? You know? I
(28:51):
mean like look when when when he left Miami, Chris
Bosh was quoted is saying, you know, Kevin love you
go there. Remember you're gonna have to play center, which
is true, okay, And he's gonna he's gonna give you
the ball, and if you don't make it in the
first half, you're not getting the second half. And when
things go wrong, it's going to be your fault, not
his fault. Like again, if you can accept all of
these things, we would all agree Lebron is great. But
there is a prevailing. There is some some sort of
(29:13):
thought in the media which I'm not sure to share
with the players, which is he's awesome to play with
and he makes you better. All of those guys that
were traded there performed better with their previous teams than
they did when they got to play with Lebron this year,
and I'm not sure how much fun they actually had.
So he's are we only looking at it as a
Westbrook and we're not looking at as from the Lebron
might not be that much fun to play with. I'd
(29:33):
rather have a little less fun and losing the finals
than a little less fun and losing the first round. Agreed,
But the love the love Bosh examples like what you're saying,
Like I haven't. There's certain things I disagree with that
I still have an open mind about. Okay, and Lebron
isn't always great to play with. I have an open
mind about it, Like, yeah, if you screw up, it's
gonna be on you. And if he screws up the
(29:54):
defensive rotation, it still might kind of be on you. Um,
you know he's gonna get the love because he's but
he this dude is I think sometimes we forget how
amazing he is, Like we hold every other superstar to
the standard that whenever they have a bad game in
the playoffs to go like, oh, really is during all
that is Curry, all that is hard and all that
as Paul that Lebron is doing it every single freaking
game in the playoffs. So yeah, I would, I would
(30:18):
listen to some of the smaller complaints, but like I
try not to let the ten percent get in the
way of that's amazing. And the Bosch Love stat drop
off thing, I think it's a poorer. It's just poor
evidence for the argument that Lebron is not actually a
great teammate because Bosch got empty stats on a barely
playoff Toronto team and Kevin Love wasn't even close to
(30:40):
step in the playoffs team. Yeah, so like those guys,
those stats were going to go down just by being
with better players, No question. Dan D'Angelo Russell had a
great year statistically in Brooklyn. Still nobody who was a
playoff team wants him on their roster. So I I
agree with you, Okay, I'm not I'm not using stats.
I'm using the reality of playing. If you're gonna play
with on you're going to play Lebron's way, right, like
(31:03):
you know, like they're not doing it. They're not doing
a ball moving offense, not doing a pick and roll offense.
That's not how he plays. Like, look, you're gonna play
to his strengths. He's the best player. That's really more
what I was getting at. And to some people, that's
not much fun, right, some people just doesn't fit. They
just don't fit in with that. And have we not
at least opened it up to the possibility of enough
people have told him, like a Lebron the ain't that
(31:25):
much fun. I can totally understand how it wears on you, Okay,
that it is. It's this all encompassing things like he
is the sun and you are just these You're not
even a planet. Sometimes you're a mood orbiting around this thing.
Just like, hey, I'm along for the ride and all
the attention. And when you know we don't do as well,
we're not as good, well guess what? Like sometimes that's
(31:47):
played out and sometimes and I hate the word narrative,
like sometimes it's not always accurate. It was accurate this year,
like that team wasn't any good, that was the worst
team roster wise, that he had of this eight years
of final run, so you know if he was frustrated
at times, like I don't, I don't really blame him.
You don't how it wants like, I still don't have
any answer. Do you have the third best player on
(32:08):
the Calsos this year? I don't. I would say, like
if somebody said life or death, I do like just
end it. I can't answer that. Uh yeah. But there's
also he's you know, the thing that bottles me. Do
you think he's about No? No, But I think he.
I think he's like he's like every super talented person
(32:29):
I've ever known, I've ever worked with, in that he's
I think he's actually a good dude. I think he's
a good human being. I think he's a great player.
But I don't think it's all easy. I just don't.
And I also think that he has maybe a little
bit too much pride. The perfect example is the Kyrie thing.
Kyrie says, I'm out of this circus. I want out.
(32:50):
Do you mean to tell me you don't pick up
the phone and go like, hey man, let's listen, let's
let's let's let's chop it up, let's go eat this restaurant.
I'll fly out and tell me who you want to meet.
It's not about media, it's not about cameras. Let's just
talk to this out face to face. And then if
Kyrie wants to leave, then you're like, all right, good,
I'll give you my blessing, leave wherever. But the allowing
the front office to make moves and then coming out
to Rachel Nichols and going like I told him not
(33:11):
to trade him for that package, and they traded him,
Like what are you doing, Like take some ownership over
a relationship with Carrie Irving that had become dysfunctional. That's
the part that makes it to where I'm like, he's great,
but he's not exactly easy. But I don't I don't
know if any of these guys are like if we're
finding again, I'm not telling you that you're wrong about
(33:31):
the critiques of this, but when I look at the
overall package, that this is somebody that we're legitimately talking
about being at the same talent level as Michael Jordan's
and it's not just the guy that gets bounced out early,
but because the eighth straight finals, Like there's a value
to that, Like if he's such a bad teammate and
it's so overwhelming and it's so bad, Like, wouldn't these
teams start losing more? Wouldn't they lose earlier in the playoffs?
(33:52):
So I would agree that, yeah, there's some ownership stuff,
But I still feel like post two thousand ten, when
he was made out to be the worst team and
ever for going down as a tree agent to Miami,
that that's always stuck with him, that that that's burnt him.
And they've become a little bit more protective and they
are trying to create more of the story around them
because because they don't like there is that ego and
(34:13):
there is that pride, and yeah, he probably could have
found a way to maybe repair the Kyrie thing a
little bit more. And it sounds like that story a
year later is that Kyrie was going to be traded
on his way out and he's like, all right, forget this,
I'm out of here. I don't want to do this anymore.
But when I look at the trade packages like next
year and all the stuff that happened, you know that
that to me was more of a personality thing. That
team was messed up. You know, they had to get
(34:34):
Isaiah and Jay crowd are out of there. So look, yeah,
that one's always kind of weird. I don't I'm still
expecting Way to get like some weird contract from Miami
that doesn't make a ton of sense that's paid back
for him opting out of two thusk fourteen. Like I
almost feel like, hey, they still oow me money. I'm
gonna go back down there? Is that cool? Yeah, no problem,
because they probably could have used him in the playoffs.
I'm not saying it would have changed anything, but that
(34:55):
was weird that it was just like, oh, by the way,
you can go back for enoughing. I honestly think it's
a personality thing. I think was him and Lebron and
other guys were jealous of of how how close they
were in terms of the relationship. I think it was
a dysfunctional dysfunction right here, here's what we gotta get to. Okay, Um,
best guess what happens. Um it's either a one year
deal with Cleveland or somebody figures out that he's teaming
(35:19):
up with Lebron here soon, and if Lebron goes there
by himself, meaning to the Lakers, I have to imagine
something else is coming by the end. Of August. But
that wasn't best guest. Best guest means one guess. You
gave me two options, which are both very plausible. I'm
I I was so bad a sports center, Doug, give
(35:43):
me your best guess. What do you think happens if
I had gun to your head? This is the this
is this is a simpler question to answer than third
best player in the Calves this year. I've always thought
that Cleveland still very much in play here, and if
no one wants to go to l A I thought
he was gonna do a short deal in Cleveland. So
I'm giving you I'm giving my best guests. But like
as soon as I find out like a Paul George
or Kauai, you know, end up there, like I don't
(36:04):
seem going back to people. So yeah, I'm not giving
you just the best guests. But those are my two
thought out rational points. Okay, maybe maybe I'll work backwards.
Do you think Kawhi Leonard gets traded to l a UM.
I think Kawai and his camp have totally screwed this up.
Like if they just wanted to go to the Lakers,
that's exactly what they should have said. They should have
controlled the message, so everybody else knew to not even
bother bidding on him because it was a one year rental.
(36:26):
I can't believe they did this thing where they played
it out. So now the Lakers price goes up, the
left left assets that teams up with there. But yeah,
and by the way, the Spurs, no one has told
me they've even offered him the Supermax, which which may
have solved all of their problems and just keeping them there.
So um, if they don't offer him Supermax found, it
seems like it's eating up more so. My best guests
(36:47):
was that he ends up with the Lakers, So the
ends of the Lakers, then Lebron ends up with the Lakers,
and then what is Paul George do gets to watch
a bunch of bad shot of tenpsan and sushi. Okay, see,
hey there's some Ujuniko is actually really good. No clom City.
I'm just gonna point out it's you know, it's not Nobu,
but it's it's the Nope, it's the nob it's the
Nobu of of of the northern part of Oklahoma City
(37:11):
at northwest Oklahoma City. So I just want to know,
and it's not northwest. I had known that because I
got new. Uh. I was there for a Sooner's game,
so I'd stayed back in Oklahoma City, and you know
those college game day trips back in the day. Was
Halloween and getting yelled at the phone and um, I
ordered some delivery pizza and it was it was so
bad I called the complaint and then the owner of
(37:31):
the pizza place called me back in the hotel room
to threaten me, so he was coming by. It's awesome,
pretty great. I wonder if that guy had knows what
knows what you look like in person. Ryan Roussilla, the
King of Manhattan Beach, Thanks so much, Ryan, thank you.
All three hours of the Herd are always streaming on
the Herd channel on the i Heart radio app.
The Thread is a new hit podcast from Ozzy Media
that explores history surprising connections in order to discover how
one thing leads to another, like how movie moguls in
early Hollywood helps spark the me Too movement. Today, get
it on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen with
Colin out Here's Doug Gotlin. What up? Welcome in. This
(00:22):
is lard In Court Colin Cowherd, slightly younger, much more
devon Here, I'm Doug Gottli wherever you may be, however
you may be listening to the show. Thanks so much
for making us part of your day. Live from still
overcast school, Los Angeles, where we, unlike many of you
(00:44):
in the Midwest and soon on the East Coast, experience
and a heatwave. Uh, it's gonna be seventy five of
the beaches, eighty in the basin, nine in the valley
every day, and then of course get a little hotter.
I think the end of next weekend summer will fully
your right. But the summer of Lebron has has has begun.
Lebron James opts out of his contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers.
(01:06):
That came down the line from various Twitter handles earlier day.
That is not a surprise. Not a surprise. Uh, Lebron
James has won every right to opt out. That's why
his contracts were written as such, and too, being opted
in when you can make more money and control your
own destiny. Outside of that, what was really you know,
(01:27):
why would he do it? So Lebron? Lebron opts out
and Lebron is a free agent. And oh yeah, by
the way, I'm not sure if you guys are aware,
but today, the twenty nine of June is Kauai Leonard's birthday,
Happy birthday, and the Spurs wished him happy birthday. Never
(01:51):
has a Twitter handle been so awkward since? Uh? I
guess probably when the Toronto Raptors congratulated Dwayne Casey on
being the Coach of the Year after he was fired
as their head coach. I love NBA Twitter, I really do.
So here's where we stand as of today. Various reports
yesterday about the Lakers and the Celtics engaged in talks
(02:16):
regarding Kawai Leonard. The Celtics, per their reports, noncommittal about
who they'd include in the deal, whereas the Lakers, uh,
the home run package has not been landed, and so
I'm sure they're they're dipping their toe into the Kauai
Kauai waters understanding that there's a reason that Magic said
(02:39):
what he said a couple of days ago. We'll get
to that, and then you have Lebron James. Now, I'll
give you what I I know based upon the people
I know and trust in the NBA, and then i'll
give you in a second what I think about Lebron
and the sitting waiting for something to happen before he
(02:59):
makes that move. Let's let's start with what I know.
If you you're gonna sit here and tell me that
the Celtics are going to include Kyrie Irving in a trade,
I'm going to stop listening to what you're saying. I
don't think this. I know this based upon two people
I know in the Celtics front office that they love
(03:22):
Kyrie and he loves playing there, and they believe that
Kyrie Irving he's not the best point guard in the league.
He's right there in the discussion and they know that
he's a part of it fits into how they do
what they do and why they do it. The only
concern with Kyrie Irving would be the knee right and
that he had. If you know anything about the injury
(03:44):
that he had, it was four years ago. Four years
ago he had his his kneecap broke against the Golden
State Warriors in Game one of the NBA Finals, a
game in which the Calves lost in overtime. He had
three screw is put in they needy wire that tied
him all together. First surgery this year was to take
the wire out because it was irritating him underneath the skin.
(04:06):
Can you just imagine that, like the feeling of switching
and scratching and underneath the skin. That sounds so painful.
And then he had the three screws removed because one
of them looked like it could be infected. If the
knee bone, if the kneecap itself gets infected, now you've
got a major problem for the rest of his life,
not just the rest of his career. They believe is
Nei'll be fine. That's their only concern. They think Kyrie
(04:31):
is a better defensive player than you think. They think
he's a better passer than you think. And they already
know that everybody knows what a great score he is,
especially in and around the basket and oh yeah. By
the way, while Lebron made one of the great defensive
plays in the history of the NBA blocking Andrea Guadala
a couple of years ago in Game seven, it was
Kyrie who at times carried them offensively and made the
(04:52):
big three. None of these facts are lost on the
Boston Celtics. More than anything. The Boston Celtics are run
by a coach who's brilliant, and they believe Kyrie Irving
is brilliant. They get him, he gets them, not changing.
In addition, I've heard, well, what was you though, Gordon
Hayward in there? How good is Gordon Hayward? Gordon Hayward
(05:13):
isn't just really good? He was an All Star going
back a year ago with Utah Jazz. Harder to be
an All Star in the West, especially in a place
like Utah. He's gotten better every year in his career.
He can guard and play four positions on each side
of the floor. He doesn't have to be the leading
score the best player, superstar. He's getting his money. Is
very very happy. But more than anything, he did, in
(05:34):
fact play for Brad Stevenson College. That does matter. In addition,
he too likes the culture of the Celtics, those two
aren't going anywhere. And then you have well Jayson Tatum,
who if if it was a one for one Tatum
for Kauai, I would probably do it. The problem is
(05:55):
that it's not simply that easy, okay, Jason Tatum is
on a rookie contract for three more years. Kawhi Leonards
got one more year, and they have no idea, nor
they've been given any thoughts that Kauai would want to stay.
So three years of Jayson Tatum not yet in the
prime of his career, or one year of Kawuahi Leonard.
And if you remember when Gordon Hayward signed with the
(06:18):
Celtics when they traded for Kyrie Irving, one of the
statements that Danny Ainge made was that both of them
fit in age wise and career wise to their plan
to be successful and competitive during a certain stretch of time.
Like they don't want there are the two cows the
top of the pastors. They're not the one that wants
to run down and run back. They want to walk
(06:40):
down and stay down for a while. So then you're
left with Jalen Brown, draft picks, Harry Rogier, other backups,
and even then the Celtics are like, look, we do it,
but we have no idea if he'd stay. Don't be fooled.
(07:01):
NBA teams league stories to our NBA NBA writer brethren,
the Lakers are the destination for Kawhi Leonard this year
or next year. He has let it be known to
everybody in the league that's where he wants to play.
Do the best you can. If not, we'll do this
dance next year. I'll just go and you won't get anything.
(07:22):
And the people who are leading you to believe that
the Spurs have leverage of the San Antonio Spurs, they
don't do this very often. They have a great general manager,
great front office, but you don't You don't ever see
them engaged in trade talks with their star players. And
the team I would least want to do business with
is not the Lakers. It's the Celtics because they keep
(07:44):
winning all these damn trades. So by my estimation, it
feels like the Kauai thing will probably get done. The
only question with the Lakers is are you would you are?
Are you willing to play hardball? Are you willing to say, hey,
you know what, we're not giving the Ingram and Kuzma.
We'll give you one or the other. That's a fair trade.
(08:07):
We'll give you a couple of draft picks and you'll
give us somebody who doesn't want to be there. I
think that's the question, you know, when you walk in
a negotiation, are you willing to walk away? Is your
level of confidence? Magic Johnson said earlier this week, Remember
he was laughing. People killed him for saying, Hey, if
(08:27):
I don't get guys in the next two years, I'll quit.
You don't have to fire me. You feel like Magic
Johnson is not speaking out of turn here. He feels
that Kauai is coming regardless. So either give him to
us now or await a year and give it to
us then. But are you willing to walk away from
the table, especially with Paul George, who you could have
(08:48):
had last year, but maybe he didn't have the assets
to pull off the move, or maybe Indiana didn't want
to give into his wishes and trade him to the Lakers. Well,
whatever the reason is, last year, you didn't do it.
Now you might not yet, Paul George. This is the
Herd podcast. I do love the the Kawhi Leonard. His
uncle is upset because when they re up to shoe deal.
(09:09):
Wasn't a big wasn't a big boon money wise? Like, Look,
we could say it's because san Antonio and san Antonio
is kind of boring, but it should be pointed out
that Kawhi Leonard is really boring. Like I think Kawie
Leonard is great, not good great. I'm going to say,
third best player in the NBA plays both ends, can
post up, can haild the ball, become a much much
(09:32):
better shooter than I think anybody thought possible, and can
guard all those positions. But if you think playing in
San Antonio is the only reason that he got short
change in his shoe deal, come on, there's a personality
in there. No, there's not. It's okay, Like, we don't
(09:52):
all have to have big personalities. We don't all have
to have, you know, cameras in front of us to
be comfortable and be a salesman. No, no, no, I
know who you are. Nonetheless, it does. Uh, there's uh,
there's a lot of stories out there. This one is great.
San Antonio has informed teams it preferred target in any
(10:15):
in any a Kawhi Leonard trade the Celtics is Jason
Tatum teams have noted this is likely a negotiation tactic.
Widely believed in league circles that Boston is more likely
to propose a deal center on Kyrie Irving and future picks,
but based upon previous behavior, the Celtics are unlikely to
overpay for Leonard. I've talked to his Celtics source, and
they're like, we're not trading Kyrie and we're not trading
(10:36):
Jayson Tatum. What else you got? Philadelphia's internal discussions have
focused on potential trade packages offering various young players and
future draft selections. One team source says preliminary discussions with
San Antonio revealed the Spurs have a strong interest in
the package of burging forwards Dario Sarch Robert Covington, as
(10:56):
well as future first round picks. A potential more serious
offer Philadelphia's weighing internally includes Sarry Covington and the two
thousand twenty one Miami Heat unprotected first round pick the
Celtics obtained in their Draft Night deal with the Phoenix Suns.
Like two thousand twenty one? What like? Well, are like,
(11:20):
we don't know what the age restriction is going to be,
we don't know what the draft is gonna look like
we don't know if the Miami Heat are going to
be any good by them. That is betting up. I'll
tell you what, the Miami Heat are gonna be terrible
in two thousand twenty one. Let's gobble up that pick.
We don't even know if we're gonna have a lottery
system by them. Now do they change the lottery deal
(11:41):
in one offseason? They're gonna change it again at some point.
I mean that is the use of That is trusting
the process to the nth degree. I mean, if you
can tell me what's gonna happen in two thousand twenty one,
I need you to buy some stocks for me right now,
right because because all of these same people, I'm sure
(12:01):
you thought, you know two years ago, Donald Trump is
going to be president, right, Oh yeah, I saw that
one coming. Cubs are gonna break the curse, The Celtics
are gonna have the best young town in the NBA.
And oh yeah, by the way, the Calves are gonna
come back from three one down. You could have told
me that any of these things two years in advance,
(12:21):
three years in advance, I can tell you this. The
Heat are gonna be crumbing two thousand one. Okay, good,
good to know. Noted, sometimes we gotta do business with
unsavory types, right, you just do. Sometimes you gotta do
business with unsavory types. I mean really, that's the reason
(12:42):
that so many of these apps apps now have taken
place of of buying tickets from a scalper, right, because
he's just Even if the scalper is a regular looking dude,
you're like, hey, he's still a scalper, but now you
picked the secondary ticket market is has become like a
legitimate business enterprise where it always used to be. You
(13:04):
go to the corner, a guy would held up a
sign said I need two tickets. By the way, trying
to explain to somebody who doesn't understand why they hold
up as signs as I need two tickets, why they
actually don't need two tickets is a great That's like
an Abbott and Costello who's on first conversation. Why does
he have a sign up says I need two tickets, Well,
(13:25):
he doesn't actually need two tickets. He wants to sell
you two tickets, So why doesn't he have it? Signs
says up, I want to sell you two tickets. You
gotta understand how the laws are written against scalping and
it's just kind of the thing we all do. That's
that makes no sense. It makes total sense if you've
ever been to a ball game before. Anyway, I was
thinking about Breaking Bad and Ryan Music is my producer.
(13:47):
He he's like me. Everyone tells him, you gotta do
Game of Thrones. God, have you done Game of Thrones?
I have not done. You've done sans Sons of Anarchy?
I have not done either. I can't have a conversation
with you until you you watch those two What are
you doing? What do you what do you even watch?
But you watch those like HDTV shows? Yeah? I do.
(14:07):
Sorry House Hunters International, which I mean they I always
pick out the worst places in House Hunters in the National. Yeah.
We thought we were gonna live on like four dollars
and turns out like five thousand dollars and it's but
we're gonna do it. Just We're gonna just do it. Uh.
I was. I was that guy with Breaking Bad. I
was to be a long time. And I want to
(14:29):
point this out. I think Breaking Bad is awesome. It
is not the best television show ever. What it might
be is might have the best premise of a television
show ever. Colin says this all the time, and he's right.
I'm Doug got thea been for Colin. By the way,
this is the Herd on Fox Sports Radio says it
all times. If you can, if you tell me what
(14:49):
it is in two sentences, and I like it, you
got yourself a show, right, two or three sentences? Can
you tell me what it is? And breaking bad? Chemistry
teacher has cancer sells meth to pay for his cancer treatment,
like I'm in And what a great premise, all right?
(15:11):
What an in Like Wow, becomes the world's most renowned
meth chef because of his background as a chemistry teacher
that he initially used. He initially got into because he
wanted to pay for cancer treatment and he couldn't afford
to do so. Otherwise. It's amazing, right, really amazing. I
(15:31):
don't think it's the best it's the best TV show ever.
I don't Cheers is the best TV show ever, sure where,
But I think the premise of it is amazing. And
here's the thing. I don't think Walter White wanted to
sell meth. That's part of the the He did have
(15:53):
this internal evil side which ultimately comes out right. It's
the opposite of better Call Saul, which is the spin
off the pre will to it to which Saul is
a bad guy that some somehow kind of becomes a
good guy. Walter White's a good guy that becomes a
bad guy. It's amazing. The point is, I don't think
he really wanted to, but in order to get everything
(16:14):
paid for all cash, it is what you have to do.
And then if you're gonna sell meth, you don't want
to sell to the cartel, but you're gonna sell it yourself.
You're gonna put yourself out in the front line. We
saw how that worked out. The Spurs don't want to
deal to the Lakers. They don't, I mean, do they
want to give the Lakers Kawai and Leonard. If they do,
(16:36):
you give them Lakers Kawhi learned in anything, and you
let them keep anything that they have, it would be
assumed you're giving them a shot at an NBA title.
And and while the Spurs have been the picture of consistency,
the Lakers have been a laughing stock. We're talking five
years now between the end of like look, the Spurs
(16:58):
laugh at the idea. Kobe Brown and had one of
the most incredible last games. He He basically was Derek Jeter, Right,
Derek Jeter goes five for five in his last game.
Is Yankee? Kobe Bryant has sixty in his last game.
I mean, I don't care how hard you think somebody's playing.
To have sixty in an NBA game, period is superhuman.
To do it when you got bad achilles, a bad knee,
(17:19):
and it's your last NBA game and everybody's and you
you dropped sixty. It was insane. But the Spurs are
sitting over there laughing, like, yeah, they're celebrating Kobe going
for sixty in a meaningless game. Meanwhile, we're preparing to
try and get an NBA championship. They can't get high
quality free agents. We get LaMarcus Aldrich whenever we wanted one,
and we already had a center. We had Tim Duncan,
(17:41):
we got his Arab parents. So the so the Spurs,
they take great joy in the downfall of the Lakers
as much as you could, as much as I mean
you can point to the Lakers were between the Spurs
and winning back to back championship. Remember the Spur Many
people don't consider myself include you can't consider them a
(18:02):
dynasty because they never went back to back titles. Every
other dynasty in NBA history has went back to back titles,
the exception of the Spurs. Now, the Spurs should have
beaten Lebron the first time around. When the misfree throws uh,
they should have done a better job of defending uh,
you know, you know, defending the late game situation, Derek
(18:24):
Fisher hitting that ball fish ball fish ball fishy fish
net point four seconds to go. I mean, but the Spurs.
The Lakers stood in between the Spurs and being seen
as the greatest modern day dynasty in NBA history is
a fifteen to twenty year run. It's really amazing. They
(18:46):
don't want to but Kauai wants to be there. Everybody
knows Caui wants to be there. That hurts his value elsewhere.
Only has one year left in his deal, so even
if you get him, you get basically nine months to
convince him that no, no, he's wrong. He doesn't want
to be an l a And oh yeah, by the way,
the Lakers actually have some really good pieces to offer,
not just first round picks, but it's some young players
(19:07):
like this is a deal with the devil that you
probably gotta make. This is the Walter White decision. I've
always done things the right way, but I'm gonna swallow
heart and cook some meth in an RV somewhere outside
of Albuquerque, New Mexico. I'm gonna sell it for, you know,
(19:29):
with the intention of paying off my cancer treatments, which
is the bizarre comparison. San Antonio Spurs loading themselves up
for a future run. You got de Jont Murray. They
believe their point guard of the future LaMarcus Alts. They've
gotten way more out of him than anyone could have
thought possible a year ago when he wanted out. Draft picks,
(19:51):
young players, great talent evaluation. The Spurs will be solid
until they land their next star, which they have in
the past, whether it's an their national one like Genoblee
or Parker or a domestic one. I know that Tim
Duncan comes from the Islands, but he's still played in
the States. Even Kawhi letter to Draft day trade fifteenth
(20:11):
pick in the draft. They've been able to evaluate better
than anybody. They don't want to, but they have to
catch the herd. From noon to three Eastern on I
Heart Radio and f S one. Let's welcome in a
good friend of mine, good friend of Collins as well.
He's got his own podcast, it's a really good one.
When he's had his own national radio show, it's been outstanding.
He's Ryan Solo. He joins us here in the Herd
(20:33):
on Fox Sports Radio. Um, did I miss anything in
terms of what we what we think as of right now? No,
that was really good. I forgot I was coming on
as a guest there for a second. No, no, no,
that way like that was really good. I was laughing
about the Game six joke because I felt the same
way about Westbrook in that game. But the Paul George
things is like, and I know that we're supposed to
(20:55):
pronounce it differently now, but I'm just not going to
do that. Um, how are we supposed to announce it? Well,
you no tell me to say, don't know? I think
cool people say abisa abisa? Yeah, that was like, yeahs
with with a th th who's the golfer like that?
What's the guy with the with the ponytail whom? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Amenace,
(21:21):
I just did it again. Yeah, alright, alright, So if
it's Abitha then we also have to say, you know,
scores are nil and h you know, we have to
use other predencia anyway. Okay, so I totally interrupt your flow.
I apologize. No, No, I just think it's funny Paul
Georgia staying with Okay, see, um, he has this five
(21:42):
part sports center thing that he's doing. So they were
probably like, look, we can't just not do anything here,
you know, like you're gonna have to go visit somebody
so we get some footage. Uh, you know, if he's
not going to leave as a free agent, that's not
as nearly exciting television. So let's start with the Lebron thing. Um,
didn't didn't stay with Cleveland, the opt out. We knew
that was gonna happen, and knew that was gonna happen
(22:03):
this week. And now you're left with if Cleveland isn't play,
could they have done anything? Do they know of any
deal as they can do to improve that team? Because
I had a hard time believing that Lebron would go
back to Cleveland if nothing had changed, but I had
never ruled Cleveland out. I still think it's l A
Cleveland and Philadelphia. Now the l A part of This
is really weird because it's sent the sense is Doug
that more and more people are like, you know, George
(22:25):
might just do a one in one here or a
two year deal and then hit the market again when
he has more service time and get an even bigger contract,
which seems so weird, not because the money part, but
just him not going to l A. When he told
the Pacers this whole soccer starter who were two years ago,
when he told the Pacers, hey, man, like, whatever you
guys want to do, but I'm going to l A.
And now he's gonna stay in Oklahoma City. So if
(22:46):
George is out in l A and the Spurs Kauai
thing has selled up with the Lakers, I can't fathom
that Lebron would go to the Lakers by himself. That again,
if Cleveland has improved itself, but I'd like that would
be as unlikely of any scenarios, for get the trade,
the different things like Lebron going to play with that
young core with no certainty of any other start joining him.
(23:07):
I still can't fathom that that would happen. But you know,
I'm kind of at a lost year as it seems
like less guys are moving around. Yeah, I got offered
this as a different perspective. Um, didn't he enjoy playing
with the younger guys in the regular season once they
made that trade? Like, you still want people. You still
want to walk in the building and be like, oh hey, Lebron, Lebronze,
(23:28):
Lebron's here right. Like I understand in the playoffs order
to win big you have to have some experience. But
if we we look at Miami, he didn't win his
first year. We look in Cleveland, he didn't win his
first year. That he got to the finals in both
of those years. Um, couldn't you sell him on? Hey, dude,
don't you just come? If you come, Paul's probably coming,
Kauai is definitely coming. But more than anything, like, spend
(23:49):
a year, get to know all of us, get to
know the young pieces. See guys you like, see guys
you don't like. You're not gonna win this year anyway.
Next year is the year in which you can pick
and choose. If you don't love those guys, maybe get Clay.
You could be you know, Jimmy Butler. You can pick
from whatever you want. Why don't just come? Like and
if you're by the way, if he's staying in Cleveland,
He's had all season to figure out a way to
(24:11):
stay in Cleveland, to get a deal made, to have
something already done. I just I feel like sometimes we
want the table to be perfectly set for him, and
that's maybe what he's used to, But isn't at least
a thought go with the young guys, elevate all of
their games, and then pick and choose who you want
to add next. Well, I see what you're saying there,
(24:31):
because there's one major thought in that is that why
would Paul George come after Lebron decided to go to
l A? Like these guys talk to each other. He
is close with Paul George, Like, why would they be
keeping in a secret from each other. I can understand
Lebron's camp and them being very tight with all this stuff.
They do a great job with it and them not
you know, giving any kind of tell here. But if
(24:53):
I'm Lebron, I'm not if I want to print a fall,
It's like, I know if he's staying in Oklahoma City
or not. See what I'm saying, Like he he's not
gonna sign him, Like, Hey, l A, I'm coming, I'm
gonna do a one year at an option. I'm gonna
do the shorter term thing, even though Lebron is gonna
be looking for the longer one here soon. Um, you know,
I'm just gonna come to l A and then I'll
see what happens. He would already have the answers to
that by being able to talk to all of these
(25:14):
other guys, like the Durant news that he talked to
Durant that that was sexy, but it doesn't mean any good.
Durant's not doing it and he's not leaving Golden State.
But it's also part of the bigger thing here of
this off season that that Lebron talked to all of
these guys so to me, like it isn't news, but
it also means that he should have gathered information that's
all of a sudden like what is Paul George is
not going to tell Lebron ultimately, like what he's gonna do.
(25:35):
Like if Lebron called George and say, hey, what are
you doing, I'm not telling you dude, And I mean
to be very official to both part, but but you
also you also know you also know I would say this, um,
and and I pushing guys over that threshold, right, like, look,
you walked away from your radio show is to me
as an ballsy move. He did. That took some nuts
(25:58):
to do. It's a hard thing to do. And and
as much as you could say, like, hey, Paul, you
know he went and saw Dwyane Wade, he said, the
bronze cool. You know it's l A. It's the Lakers.
You know how many times have how many times do
you threaten to move to l A when you didn't
do it? How many different guys have we said, well,
I'm walking out that building and they didn't do it.
(26:18):
It's just that that last little push. I could see
whether they're communicating, and he's like, I think I'm coming.
I think, you know, I just I need some time.
I need to think it over. And he's, you know,
he's kind of replay. And again, some of this is
he's remembering it a lot more fondly than he should
remember it. Like, all, if I'm the Lakers, my pitch
to Paul George's just turn on the Game six tape.
And it was awful, right, it was. It was horrendous.
(26:41):
Watch that Game six tape like you want more of this,
more for another year. But I mean, but the fact
that he was out there and it hasn't dawned on
him yet. But hey, dude, this is never going to change.
This book thing is never going to change. But what
you hear about Paul George, and it's not a bad thing,
is that he's more impressionable that that he might be
the guy the day of it's like, hey, I'm I
love it here, Like this is awesome. I love working
(27:03):
out Westbrook. Like I have heard this from numerous people
this offseason that George really likes Westbrook. So even though
we watch it from a basketball standpoint and go, how
could anybody really enjoy this Westbrook thing? And I don't
want to fight with Oklahoma City, there's enough evidence out
there that it isn't fun to play with Westbrook and
George somehow like whatever that is. It's it's potentially here,
(27:25):
you know, because we still don't know for certain here,
But it's just the rumblings are that that I just
haven't heard from as many people are like, Okay, yeah,
he's gonna bounce. That heard from one agent, you know,
a couple of months ago, and then flam Mackison ran
with it and said that I was reporting Georgia's leaving
and that's not even closer that But that's what everybody does. Now, Um,
you're right, like you would think that would be part
of the pitch, But I mean, why would he have
to go back and watch it when he was out
(27:46):
there with By the way, I'm gonna aggregate all your
thoughts and repeat them in my next segment. That's what
I'm gonna because that's that's what we've become. Ryan Rossillo
joining us in the Herd here on Fox Sports Radio.
I do think I think guys like I think guys
like offseason Russ, I think they rust the guy. I
think Russ is a human being, is a great human being.
I really I would agree with those I've never heard
(28:06):
of anybody say like I don't like Russell Westbrook. I
just think, you know, when like just to jump in
real quickly. Remember that play where Westbrook was trying to
get like the tenthest shifts and they were against the
Warriors beleave yes, and the Warriors were laughing at him
on the bench. They were laughing at the eventureus. They
were mad that the guy didn't take the shot. And
it was like that told me, I think there's these
little moments like when Kobe told Dwight Howard, I know
who you are. That's all I ever needed to know
(28:27):
about Dwight Howard, despite mountains of evidence that you know,
would also prove that Dwight's not the greatest teammate. I
thought that moment told you a lot. Like dude, he's
doing it again, and Durant sitting there and laughing, go on,
this is so much more fun, Like I think that's
a real thing. Yeah, I do too, I do too.
I think it would be. Now there is the other
side to it, which which no one brings up. Is
it really fun to play with Lebron? You know? I
(28:51):
mean like look when when when he left Miami, Chris
Bosh was quoted is saying, you know, Kevin love you
go there. Remember you're gonna have to play center, which
is true, okay, And he's gonna he's gonna give you
the ball, and if you don't make it in the
first half, you're not getting the second half. And when
things go wrong, it's going to be your fault, not
his fault. Like again, if you can accept all of
these things, we would all agree Lebron is great. But
there is a prevailing. There is some some sort of
(29:13):
thought in the media which I'm not sure to share
with the players, which is he's awesome to play with
and he makes you better. All of those guys that
were traded there performed better with their previous teams than
they did when they got to play with Lebron this year,
and I'm not sure how much fun they actually had.
So he's are we only looking at it as a
Westbrook and we're not looking at as from the Lebron
might not be that much fun to play with. I'd
(29:33):
rather have a little less fun and losing the finals
than a little less fun and losing the first round. Agreed,
But the love the love Bosh examples like what you're saying,
Like I haven't. There's certain things I disagree with that
I still have an open mind about. Okay, and Lebron
isn't always great to play with. I have an open
mind about it, Like, yeah, if you screw up, it's
gonna be on you. And if he screws up the
(29:54):
defensive rotation, it still might kind of be on you. Um,
you know he's gonna get the love because he's but
he this dude is I think sometimes we forget how
amazing he is, Like we hold every other superstar to
the standard that whenever they have a bad game in
the playoffs to go like, oh, really is during all
that is Curry, all that is hard and all that
as Paul that Lebron is doing it every single freaking
game in the playoffs. So yeah, I would, I would
(30:18):
listen to some of the smaller complaints, but like I
try not to let the ten percent get in the
way of that's amazing. And the Bosch Love stat drop
off thing, I think it's a poorer. It's just poor
evidence for the argument that Lebron is not actually a
great teammate because Bosch got empty stats on a barely
playoff Toronto team and Kevin Love wasn't even close to
(30:40):
step in the playoffs team. Yeah, so like those guys,
those stats were going to go down just by being
with better players, No question. Dan D'Angelo Russell had a
great year statistically in Brooklyn. Still nobody who was a
playoff team wants him on their roster. So I I
agree with you, Okay, I'm not I'm not using stats.
I'm using the reality of playing. If you're gonna play
with on you're going to play Lebron's way, right, like
(31:03):
you know, like they're not doing it. They're not doing
a ball moving offense, not doing a pick and roll offense.
That's not how he plays. Like, look, you're gonna play
to his strengths. He's the best player. That's really more
what I was getting at. And to some people, that's
not much fun, right, some people just doesn't fit. They
just don't fit in with that. And have we not
at least opened it up to the possibility of enough
people have told him, like a Lebron the ain't that
(31:25):
much fun. I can totally understand how it wears on you, Okay,
that it is. It's this all encompassing things like he
is the sun and you are just these You're not
even a planet. Sometimes you're a mood orbiting around this thing.
Just like, hey, I'm along for the ride and all
the attention. And when you know we don't do as well,
we're not as good, well guess what? Like sometimes that's
(31:47):
played out and sometimes and I hate the word narrative,
like sometimes it's not always accurate. It was accurate this year,
like that team wasn't any good, that was the worst
team roster wise, that he had of this eight years
of final run, so you know if he was frustrated
at times, like I don't, I don't really blame him.
You don't how it wants like, I still don't have
any answer. Do you have the third best player on
(32:08):
the Calsos this year? I don't. I would say, like
if somebody said life or death, I do like just
end it. I can't answer that. Uh yeah. But there's
also he's you know, the thing that bottles me. Do
you think he's about No? No, But I think he.
I think he's like he's like every super talented person
(32:29):
I've ever known, I've ever worked with, in that he's
I think he's actually a good dude. I think he's
a good human being. I think he's a great player.
But I don't think it's all easy. I just don't.
And I also think that he has maybe a little
bit too much pride. The perfect example is the Kyrie thing.
Kyrie says, I'm out of this circus. I want out.
(32:50):
Do you mean to tell me you don't pick up
the phone and go like, hey man, let's listen, let's
let's let's let's chop it up, let's go eat this restaurant.
I'll fly out and tell me who you want to meet.
It's not about media, it's not about cameras. Let's just
talk to this out face to face. And then if
Kyrie wants to leave, then you're like, all right, good,
I'll give you my blessing, leave wherever. But the allowing
the front office to make moves and then coming out
to Rachel Nichols and going like I told him not
(33:11):
to trade him for that package, and they traded him,
Like what are you doing, Like take some ownership over
a relationship with Carrie Irving that had become dysfunctional. That's
the part that makes it to where I'm like, he's great,
but he's not exactly easy. But I don't I don't
know if any of these guys are like if we're
finding again, I'm not telling you that you're wrong about
(33:31):
the critiques of this, but when I look at the
overall package, that this is somebody that we're legitimately talking
about being at the same talent level as Michael Jordan's
and it's not just the guy that gets bounced out early,
but because the eighth straight finals, Like there's a value
to that, Like if he's such a bad teammate and
it's so overwhelming and it's so bad, Like, wouldn't these
teams start losing more? Wouldn't they lose earlier in the playoffs?
(33:52):
So I would agree that, yeah, there's some ownership stuff,
But I still feel like post two thousand ten, when
he was made out to be the worst team and
ever for going down as a tree agent to Miami,
that that's always stuck with him, that that that's burnt him.
And they've become a little bit more protective and they
are trying to create more of the story around them
because because they don't like there is that ego and
(34:13):
there is that pride, and yeah, he probably could have
found a way to maybe repair the Kyrie thing a
little bit more. And it sounds like that story a
year later is that Kyrie was going to be traded
on his way out and he's like, all right, forget this,
I'm out of here. I don't want to do this anymore.
But when I look at the trade packages like next
year and all the stuff that happened, you know that
that to me was more of a personality thing. That
team was messed up. You know, they had to get
(34:34):
Isaiah and Jay crowd are out of there. So look, yeah,
that one's always kind of weird. I don't I'm still
expecting Way to get like some weird contract from Miami
that doesn't make a ton of sense that's paid back
for him opting out of two thusk fourteen. Like I
almost feel like, hey, they still oow me money. I'm
gonna go back down there? Is that cool? Yeah, no problem,
because they probably could have used him in the playoffs.
I'm not saying it would have changed anything, but that
(34:55):
was weird that it was just like, oh, by the way,
you can go back for enoughing. I honestly think it's
a personality thing. I think was him and Lebron and
other guys were jealous of of how how close they
were in terms of the relationship. I think it was
a dysfunctional dysfunction right here, here's what we gotta get to. Okay, Um,
best guess what happens. Um it's either a one year
deal with Cleveland or somebody figures out that he's teaming
(35:19):
up with Lebron here soon, and if Lebron goes there
by himself, meaning to the Lakers, I have to imagine
something else is coming by the end. Of August. But
that wasn't best guest. Best guest means one guess. You
gave me two options, which are both very plausible. I'm
I I was so bad a sports center, Doug, give
(35:43):
me your best guess. What do you think happens if
I had gun to your head? This is the this
is this is a simpler question to answer than third
best player in the Calves this year. I've always thought
that Cleveland still very much in play here, and if
no one wants to go to l A I thought
he was gonna do a short deal in Cleveland. So
I'm giving you I'm giving my best guests. But like
as soon as I find out like a Paul George
or Kauai, you know, end up there, like I don't
(36:04):
seem going back to people. So yeah, I'm not giving
you just the best guests. But those are my two
thought out rational points. Okay, maybe maybe I'll work backwards.
Do you think Kawhi Leonard gets traded to l a UM.
I think Kawai and his camp have totally screwed this up.
Like if they just wanted to go to the Lakers,
that's exactly what they should have said. They should have
controlled the message, so everybody else knew to not even
bother bidding on him because it was a one year rental.
(36:26):
I can't believe they did this thing where they played
it out. So now the Lakers price goes up, the
left left assets that teams up with there. But yeah,
and by the way, the Spurs, no one has told
me they've even offered him the Supermax, which which may
have solved all of their problems and just keeping them there.
So um, if they don't offer him Supermax found, it
seems like it's eating up more so. My best guests
(36:47):
was that he ends up with the Lakers, So the
ends of the Lakers, then Lebron ends up with the Lakers,
and then what is Paul George do gets to watch
a bunch of bad shot of tenpsan and sushi. Okay, see,
hey there's some Ujuniko is actually really good. No clom City.
I'm just gonna point out it's you know, it's not Nobu,
but it's it's the Nope, it's the nob it's the
Nobu of of of the northern part of Oklahoma City
(37:11):
at northwest Oklahoma City. So I just want to know,
and it's not northwest. I had known that because I
got new. Uh. I was there for a Sooner's game,
so I'd stayed back in Oklahoma City, and you know
those college game day trips back in the day. Was
Halloween and getting yelled at the phone and um, I
ordered some delivery pizza and it was it was so
bad I called the complaint and then the owner of
(37:31):
the pizza place called me back in the hotel room
to threaten me, so he was coming by. It's awesome,
pretty great. I wonder if that guy had knows what
knows what you look like in person. Ryan Roussilla, the
King of Manhattan Beach, Thanks so much, Ryan, thank you.
All three hours of the Herd are always streaming on
the Herd channel on the i Heart radio app.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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