July 27, 2018 • 52 mins
Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2. All Ball with Doug Gottlieb is part of the Colin Cowherd Podcast Network. All Ball is an unfiltered podcast covering the biggest stories in college basketball and the NBA. Join Doug as he brings his unique perspective as a TV analyst and radio host. In this episode, Doug talks NBA, recruiting, AAU and more with guests Evan Daniels and Joel Francisco. Follow Doug on Twitter at @GottliebShow and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, welcome in. I'm done godly, this is all ball,
all basketball, all the time with NBA. With Yes. Now
we're gonna talk to some recurring with you. The July
evaluation period is honest, so of course we're gonna reach
out to Vegas where everything goes down in terms of
the last weekend in July EVL. The date of this
(00:27):
recording is Thursday July. On Wednesday July, there was an out.
There's a huge like the a U Game of the Year,
if you will. It was the Compton Magic versus Team Takeover,
Team Takeover. Of course, you can follow them on Twitter
at T t O Basketball. We'll get some insight into
(00:48):
their roster as well into the Compton Magic. They're at
Compton Underscore Magic Big game at Bishop Gorman. Compton Magic
win by two points. Full house, packed house for the
Las Vegas Fab forty eight, which of course my guy
Dinos Tragonis puts on every year. And um, it's gonna
be interesting to see what happens with Juli recruiting. There's
(01:10):
a lot of July recruiting guys that are gloom and
doom thinking the n c A is gonna just like
Lemmings follow the recommendation of Colindar, Condoleeza Rice and the
rest of her committee members. Um, I'm not so sure.
And as I've stated on previous podcasts, there've been all
sorts of different incarnations of what the summer looks like,
and almost without fail, the shoe companies survive. The players
(01:35):
who have um, who have been evaluated in different venues
for years, will still be evaluated, and most of the
same people, at least the good ones, the ones that
have earned the respect of the AU and the basketball community,
will still stay around the sport. How it actually plays
how I don't know yet. But before you say gloom
(01:55):
and doom and make fun of the fact that Condoleeza
Rice has never stepped inside in a you gymnasium, let
alone a big time AU game, I'm with you. But
let's not go gloom and doom until the actual rule
comes out and then to see how it actually plays.
Because the the genius to some of these a you guys,
some of these people that put put on events is
they find a way to succeed even when the rules
(02:18):
are against them, like they're not, They'll they'll find a way.
There will be games, they will have the best players,
and the question becomes, can they make it more centralized?
Can there can be continued coaching? You know, it's it's
interesting as we come off of the World Cup and
how many great basketball players we produce as a country
(02:39):
and how a few great soccer players we produce as
a company. Yes, the AU system can run a muck,
and look, do I think that all guys belong in college?
Probably not. But the fact is that, however screwed up
our system of raising young stars in basketball is it
(03:00):
does seem to work now. It's helped by the fact
that and I've stated this on a radio show which
you can hear daily three to Succeeds from Time quoted
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, the I Heart Radio
appen on our serious XM Channel three. UM. Part of
it is helped out by the best athletes still play
football and basque football and basketball in high schools and
(03:22):
in growing up. It's still cooler than playing soccer. So
I'm not blind to the fact that you have a
better caliber of athlete. You start with that as the premise.
And you know a lot of kids now have dads
or moms or dads and moms that both played so
there's a tremendous amount of sports basketball. Like you within
the household, you know you're you're not playing with the
(03:44):
same hand of cards that everybody else is playing with.
Understand that, But the amount of creativity, the amount of games, uh,
the the level of competition, the diversity of competition is
so great that we continue to pump out far and
away the greatest percentage of the best basketball players on earth.
(04:08):
And this is not to diminish the Argentines who have
made a not who have made a name for themselves
in the NBA. Dirk Davitsky as a German um so
many of the Yugoslavians, the Serbians, you you know, you
name it. There have been players from all of those.
Brazilians have made the Spaniards, of course, but the truth
(04:28):
is that the reason are younger teams are dominating is
one the leadership of USA Basketball and two we do
have the best and most diverse group of athletes out there.
And three, frankly, this screwy system to which players bounce
some team to team shoot companies always kind of seemed
(04:49):
to have um something in the game. And all these
vivid personalities who may or may not be funneling money
from somewhere reputable or somewhere of ill repute to some
of these players, to some of their families to take
care of these kids before they get to college, before
they become professional. However screwy it is, it does have
(05:13):
a tendency to work. It does. All right, let's talk
about the news of the day with the NBA. Two things,
One Kauai not playing for USA Basketball and two Kevin
Durant getting into it with c J McCullum on Twitter
after sitting down with CJ McCullum and appearing on his podcast.
(05:34):
And it's interesting because you can have if you listen
to the podcast. I think it speaks really well to
Kevin Durant. There's a lack of there's nothing for him
to be defensive about, but he definitely wasn't. He wasn't
defensive in it. Now what c G I think did
(05:55):
which I don't like that people in the media have
a tendency to do. And I think he understands that. Now,
when you host a podcast, it becomes far different than
when you're just on Twitter or when you appear as
somebody else's guest on the podcast. He never mentioned that
the words soft. He never mentioned the words soft in
(06:16):
regards to Kevin Rant. Kevin Rand appears in the podcast.
He didn't turn to him at least a part I heard.
He never said, Hey, that decision you made to join
the Golden State Warriors was soft. And then in subsequently
on Twitter, he did use the soft word, and he
also contradicted himself saying, you know, he he didn't have
(06:39):
a problem with it, but it was soft. It was
a soft decision. And so look, there's a lot of
and there's an analogy missed in terms of using it
when you're not a gang guy. I don't know why
you use a gang analogy. I understand the hey, you
got beat up by guys and so instead of you know,
showing some grittiness and toughness and learning how to fight
(06:59):
and fighting your way out of it. I got the reference.
Kevin Durant. I thought took the reference a different way,
took the the parallel a different way. But I look
at this and I I'm just kind of blown away. Uh.
Buy a couple of things. One, I think Stage McCullum,
(07:19):
who has great intentions at heart, has now learned a
really hard kind of conundrum that many people in this
business face, which is, if you rip a guy when
he's not on your show, are you willing to be
at least mildly combative when he is. And I'm not
(07:40):
going to point out other radio hosts who came, but
a lot of them do. They completely lay down. They
will kill a guy, and then that same guy will
come on and be on their show, and one while
they're on, and then too. I think the worst part
is after they've been on, because now they feel like
they're a friend, they won't ever say anything bad about them,
even when they deserve. Like my whole thing is, you'll
(08:03):
hear people appear on this, you'll hear people peer on
my radio show. A way I feeling for other right
people with radio show, and you can say I'm coming
at them, But I just think it's unfair to say, like, hey,
this this guy's decision was soft. Then you have that
guy on and you have Kevin Durant on and not
state your opinion as it being soft and why you
think it's soft, and allowing him during that time to
(08:24):
dispute that, now what c J did that that's he's
not the only one. And it's really really hard, especially
when he's just learning in this business. He's just starting out.
The podcast is called the pull Up Podcast, right, pull up,
jump shot, get it pull up. But like, look, if
you're going to go on to Twitter and called Kevin
(08:47):
Durant's decision to join the Golden State Warrior soft, you
gotta say the same thing to Kevin Durant when is
in person. The amazing part about Katie joining the Golden
State Warriors that no one outside of me has mentioned
on national radio is that it wasn't just that k
D needed the Warriors to win a championship. The Warriors
(09:08):
needed Kevin Durant. We all point to seventy three wins, right,
that's the big thing. Well, he was on a seventy
three win team. That seventy three win team did not
win a championship, and that seventy three win team probably
should have lost to the Oaklahoma City Thunder. That team
was not as good as their record would tell you.
It just wasn't case in point. They also with first
(09:29):
team to ever lose the three games one lead in
the NBA Finals. It's just like on that same podcast,
the Portland Trailblazers were forty nine and thirty three they
were the number three seed, the number three seed in
the NBA playoffs, and Kad said, y'all played like an
eight seed. That's because their record was not indicative of
just how good they were. Damian Lillard played above his
(09:52):
level the second half of the year. He had an
incredible year, and half the teams in the West were tanking.
You combine that so many of the injuries, you know,
Andre Robertson getting hurt, the trade the Jazz went through
kind of mid season. You know, we we have a
tendency to you know, the trade the Clippers went through
and they trade away Blake Griffin the Lakers. When did
(10:14):
you play the Lakers? Did you play the Lakers? And
they the older players when they had Isaiah Thomas or
when they went young late in the season. They were
trying to win games, you know, so like, look, I
your regular season record, and I understand seventy three wins
had never been done before. You season record, though, has
never been indicative of whether or not you're a championship team.
Case in Point Eastern Conference, who had the best record
(10:36):
fifty nine wins The Toronto Raptors. They weren't the favorites
to get to the NBA Finals. Neither were the Boston
Celtics with fifty five wins or the Philadelphia seventy sixers
with fifty two wins. So the first thing that we
have to start with and talking about Kevin Durant is
the Warriors needed him. They were not a perfect team.
They did win seventy three games, that's because they were
(10:58):
a sixties six five win team that that went for it.
They went for the jugular. They went for every last
win when other teams have decided to shut it down.
You sub about Harrison Barnes and most of their bench,
you lost Andrew Bogan as well, and you end up
adding Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant needed the Warriors, needed the
(11:20):
space to show just how good a player he was.
But the Warriors needed Kevin Durand equally. Otherwise I'm not
sure they win another championship. You can dispute that all
you want, but you I would think Harrison Barnes would
get better because you're so early in his career. But
if you resigned Harrison Barnes, are you absolutely gonna win
the last two championships? So two years ago, you're absolutely
(11:42):
gonna win the Championship, Like, I don't know that the
answer is yes against Kyrie Irvan, Kevin Love, Lebron James
and that Calve team that they had lost to the
previous year. I would have liked to seen it now.
Was Kevin Durant's decisions soft? You know, everybody likes to
claim this is like how everyone likes to claim that
(12:03):
they grew up super poor. No one's ever grown up
and said, like, no, I really grew up comfortable. You
you talk about how you grew up to somebody else,
and it seems that every person on earth grew up barefoot,
butt naked walking to school and a foot of snow
walking home from school. It was uphill both ways, right,
(12:24):
No one ever grew up with money. That's like the
same thing with the NBA. It's always got to be
the toughest road. If you have a problem with what
Kevin Durant did, that's fine, But you also should have
a problem with what Lebron James did when he left
and he went to Miami. That was Duane Waide and
they added Chris Bosh and oh yeah, by the way,
then later on they added Ray Allen like he joined
(12:47):
a stacked team. Why wouldn't you join a stack team?
And it will be fascinating to see how we react
to Lebron this year with a team that's the opposite
of stacked, a team that has a bunch of young
pieces and kind of the isle of mims bit toys
on the bench. So I don't think it was about
being soft or being tough. I think it's fake toughness
to sit there and bash your head in. I honestly
(13:09):
think he was ready for something new. I've said this
all along. And he was also ready for space, space
so that you couldn't double team him, so he could
show that he was the best one on one scorer
in the league, that he had an unstoppable weapon and
that's his pull up jump shot. And you know what,
the last two NBA finals, he's proven to be right
(13:30):
all right. Last night in Las Vegas was uh the
a AU game. Really of the year is the champions
of the Adidas Gauntlet Series and the champions of the
E Y B Yell. It's a Nike series met up
and Evan Daniels he has his own podcast. It's really good.
You can download it, will tweet it out. UH. Fox
Sports does it. Of course, Evan Dance called the Sidelines.
Evan Danns joins us on the Doug Gottlieb Show. Um, Look,
(13:54):
every year there is one of these Titanic matchups. They
used to be back in my day. They used to
be for the championship of a tournament. That's not the
way it works. What was the level of intensity for
this game as opposed to ones that actually decided tournament championships? Honestly, Doug,
I thought it was one of the better played a
(14:14):
you were, high school games that I've seen and me
a long time. It was he had Bishop Gore, meaning
it was pretty much nearly sold out, UM, and so
there was a good crowd. But there the intensity between
the two was it was pretty high level. And we're
talking about two UM programs that won a ton this year,
(14:37):
you know, a Comtin Magic won both Fadida's July tournaments. Uh,
team Takover undefeated in the E y b L and
then won the Nike Pete Shampu. So it's uh, it
was it was a pretty competitive affair. You know. I
think I thought, here's the thing that I thought best
last year was Zion Williamson against against Lonzo Ball, Right
(14:58):
that was the that was the big man chep. But
but part of it was the circus of the balls.
Whereas this was just about ball meaning basketball, right, this
was just about two really good au teams made up
of players are gonna be played college basketball. Some guys
are risers, some guys have always been rated highly. More
so than being about the circus, this one was more
about basketball. Is that is that fair? No, no question?
(15:20):
And if you look in the stands, that was pretty
evident by the college coaches that were there. And you know,
I talked to a lot of people that were really
impressed with the way that game went and the coaching
in that game and the players. I mean this was there.
There was dudes on each team. I mean, the team
takeover and come the magic. All those guys are gonna
play at the least theyd major basketball. And um that
(15:43):
the coaching was really good. It was. It was a
high level game. And I walked away really impressed with
the Comple Magic big man, the Comble magicans and the
winning by a couple in overtime. But they're post players
really were the difference, I think. And then you know
Jared Lucas, he just committed to play for my brother
and their staff at Oregon State. Johnny Jusang is a
really really good shooter. Um, So who who helped themselves
(16:07):
the most? You mentioned on Congo course? Who has been
been a riser? The Mobili? Of course that's why sc
hired their dad, like they've been well regarded. Is there
any who else on that team benefited the most from
this game and from their performance? Um is that That's
tough because most of those guys were already pretty highly touted.
I walked away impressed with Johnny Jusang. I think over
(16:30):
the last year he shirt up his shot selection and
he's become a more efficient player. I noticed the start
of that at the U seventeen trials in mid June,
and I thought in this game, um, he took good shots.
He made a number of three pointers, he hit a
couple of mid range pull ups. I thought he was
(16:50):
one of the difference makers and and just his scoring
and shooting ability. Uh. The other side, I mean to
Taker had some guys that played really well, justin Morrik
committed a pavilion over with really good as well. Jeremy
Roach I think was the most impressive player for Takeover.
E's two point guard, actually the number one point guard
in that class. Um, so both sides had some guys
(17:10):
that certainly helped her stock. Yeah, you mentioned, um, you
mentioned Justin Moore who's set to go to Villanova. That's
where he's committed to. Villanova. Is interesting and you cover
the Big East and part of the Biggie Show on
Fox Sports One. As they've done unbelievable job winning two
or three national championships and we've seen Josh Hart winning
the Summer League MVP. How well regarded they are. All
(17:31):
four of those guys go in the first round of
the NBA Draft, but there there's a lot of turnover there. Um,
I know they're recruiting a little bit higher level. This
is it's kind of interesting, like how do they maintain
their culture with so many new faces. Yeah, I mean
I think that's gonna be um, that's gonna be a
big factor. But I think obviously what we've seen from
(17:54):
j right over the last couple of years, I think
he's uh, he's certainly fit to handle that. They're bringing
in a really good class from two thousand eighteen and
two dozen nineteen. They've got a top fifty two, top
seventy type guys Justin Moore and Eric Dickerson, Eric Dixon.
But that two thousand eighteen Hall is really good. Javan
(18:14):
Quin Early a five star guy, so crafty and creative.
I think he comes right in and and you're not
gonna be able to replace Jalen Brunson. But I think
he fits how Villanova wants to play. He's got such
a good feel for the game. He can set guys up.
I think he'll come in and make an instant impact,
and guys like Brandon Slater and Cole Swider will help
them out on the perimeters. Later is a big time
(18:37):
score at six six. He's got long arms. Uh, he
can make shots. He's athletic. I mean, they're they're obviously
lost a lot and most of those guys you're not
gonna be able to replace Doug as you know, but
they're bringing in a good recruiting class with solid players.
Um that really fit in Villanova. All right, Let's let's
go through a couple of the two thousand nineteens. Okay,
there's are rising seniors. He's Cole Anthony the best player
(18:59):
in that class. No, I think James Wiseman is the best. Well,
it could be the best player. I think James Wiseman
is the best prospect. Uh and when you go out
our to our rankings, that's what we're uh. And and
by Evan real quick Evan. By by prospect you mean
NBA prospect or college but because because because it's very
interesting in prospect more so than more so, I think
(19:21):
he's I think he's the best long term prospect. I
mean he's pushing seven, feat's got a seven six wings fan,
He's mobile, he impacts the game on both ends of
the court. Uh, he's really developing his offensive skill set. Unfortunately,
he's been banged up, and he would have been on
that U sevent teen team that won a gold medal,
but he got hurt and he's really played July kind
(19:42):
of kind of banged up as well. But I don't
get me wrong, I think cole anthing is great. We
have number two, UM six three explosive athlete as competitive
as you'll you'll find. I mean that this kid gets
after it on both ends of the court as well.
I think he's more of a combo than he an
actual point right now. His mentality is always to score.
(20:03):
So if I had a knock on him, it would
be you know, go create for brothers and and and
him as well. He needs to share up his shock
selection a little um as well. But he's obviously very
very gifted, very talented, can really score and he's a
high level athlete. Am I crazy think? Jene McDaniels another
another top five guy. You know, he's he's from Washington.
(20:24):
That's the kind of guy that Mike Hopkins has to get. Right.
The whole thing in Seattle is if you keep the
Seattle kids home in Seattle's up. Now you've got a
chance to win the league. Now you got a chance
to build something special. Hop did a really good job
in his first year, especially considering the turnover within the program.
But doesn't McDaniels become one of those guys that he
almost has to get? Yeah, Jade McDaniels is a priority
(20:46):
recruit for sure. Um, I think it's a tough task,
not only because he's the uh, you know, elite recruit
that I think Blue Bloods are starting to snip around with.
There's a relationship with San Diego State that goes way
back with his brother being there. But you're right, I mean,
Mike Hopkins and his staff have to prioritize him. They
you know, he's the type of guy that could really
(21:08):
help them shift that program quickly. And he's he's we're
talking about best players in the class. I mean, this
kid three or four years from now, we're gonna be
looking back and it's special because he's he's he's made
a major leap from where he was this time last
year to now, and his skill set is continue to develop.
(21:30):
He's becoming more confident, is shooting the ball better, He's
just making abourdmans across the board. Uh. It feels like
terrise Maxi has taking his game to a higher level
this summer, whether it's a Team USA or playing a
U basketball and he feels like he's that's the type
of guy that Kentucky builds an entire recruiting class round
now because because of his style. Apply Ah, he certainly
(21:51):
fits that. Yes, Um, I think that. What I like
about Tyrese is he's versatile. You can play him as
a two guard, you can play him in a calm role,
you can put the ball in his hands and he
can go create for brothers. I mean, his biggest strength
is his ability to score. He does that, um really well.
He can get to the ram and take contact and finish.
(22:11):
He can create shocks for himself. Pull up from mid range,
he can make off the catch threes. I think that's
an area he could still improve. But he's just wired
up to get uh. Nico Mannon as a kid who
he could have been two thousand twenty instead of ann
I think last week that he's gonna graduate this year. UH,
A talented point guard from you know, Pinnacle in Arizona.
(22:33):
There's lots of talk that he could be the guy
that Sean Miller kind as he tries to rebuild his
program rebuilds a guy like Nico Mannion. What's your sense?
I know it's it's still really early in these things now,
especially with the elite recruits. A lot of these guys
are deciding late. What's your sens on Nico Mannion? I
know why he moved up his data graduation and graduated
eighteens in a nineteen and it's not gonna hurt him
(22:54):
in any way. UM, but is this is this to
go to Arizona or something else? At play? I think
there's a good chance he could go there. I mean,
I think it's VIM and Duke Villanova is also in
the mix and Jay Wright was out in l A
last Sunday to see him. Um. But Arizona has done
a really good job for a long time recruiting him.
(23:16):
They've made him a priority. I don't know that Sean
Miller has missed uh many of his games. He was
at the same event l A on Sunday. Um Uh,
They've They've just been after him for so long. I
think it would be pretty deflating for Sean Miller and
his staff if they missed out on him, because I
think they have been the favorite. But anytime Duke comes
(23:36):
uh sniffing around and jump into the recruitment, it's dangerous.
So they've still got to close it out. Okay, so
let me ask you. Okay, so there's Cole Anthony and
I know that that his dad obviously is close with
Coach K. There's talk of Cole Anthony and Duke. Um
can they would they both go there? And then I
guess the second part to that is, uh, Look, Jeff
Capel did a great job of spearheading a lot of
(23:57):
their recruiting. I know Coach K still there. They have
a really young, active quality staff, but it's different when
Capel's not there. First year sense of could Manion and
Anthony both go to Duke and then has Duke's recruiting
will change at all without Jeff Capel. Well, here's the thing.
Cole Anthony has made it clear that he's not making
(24:18):
his college choice for a long time. So this is
the worst point guard class I think I've ever evaluated.
It might be the worst overall class I've ever evaluated,
but point guards especially, it's bad. So you can't afford
to wait around for Cole till May. You've got to
go out and get a get one of these big
time guys. Um and if maybe you can, you know,
(24:38):
talk him into play with with the other guy, you
get great. But uh, I just think that you can't
really wait around. Um So, I think Duke's going to
or has started to prioritize nik o'mannon. Would they love
to have Cole Anthony? I think they definitely would love
to have Cole Anthony with those two co exist in
the same backward I don't know the answer to that.
(25:00):
Um So, yeah, I think that's an interesting scenario to
see how it all plays out. And obviously you mentioned
Jeff Capel. Anytime you lose a guy of that caliber
that was so good at building relationships and um brought
a lot of really good recruits to the table. I
think it's a it's a loss. Obviously, Chris Carroroll was
(25:21):
was hired in his place, and you know Nate James
was a guy that went out and got Zian Williamson
last year. John Shire has has been the appointment on
a guy like Jayson Tatum. So it's not like these
other guys haven't gotten players. UM. But like I said,
anytime you lose somebody at caliber of Jeff Capel at hurt,
I know you want to go back, duck back into
the gym mass you really quickly. Zion Williamson's like a
(25:42):
YouTube sensation right, a dunking machine, but he's a little
bit heavy. Um. I mean I think I think at
his best he'll be he's got a chance to be
an undersized uh kind of athletic four. But you really
got to shoot and guard in order to do that.
And the one thing about coach k is, you know
they kind of way the white flag and they played
zone last year. What's your sense of of of what
(26:05):
you think we'll see from Zion Williamson. He plays for
Duke next season. Well, I think we're going to see
the electric athlete. I think we're going to see a
guy that actually has a pretty good feel feel for
the game and can really pass um. I think when motivated,
he's a really good rebounder. I think one of the
things that that caused me to take a step back
(26:26):
to them last year was he didn't always play hard
and uh, he was rarely ever in great shape. I
think the thing that we're going to see from him
at Duke is one They're gonna get him in shape,
uh and too. I'm curious to see what kind of
effort he gives forth on the court. And he was
known for those dunks, um and the highlights and transition. Uh,
(26:47):
there's some other stuff there. In terms of this passing,
I think he does that at a pretty uh at
a pretty good level. But he's gonna have to improve
his jump shot and uh last viewing in high school,
it was a ways away. Evan Daniels got his podcast
called The Sidelines with Evan Daniels Fox Sports, Fox Sports
dot Com. Of course, a great way to pick on
just fall him on Twitter. He's got all the information.
(27:08):
Get back in the gym, get back covering those games
plus Team USA. Thanks for joining us, Hey, thanks for
having me on, Doug. I appreciate it. Man. All right,
let's let's continue that conversation about Prep hoops and kind
of the Lebron takeover. I think it's gonna be fascinating.
Guy who for more than thirty years has covered Southern
California AU basketball. He knows the college scene, frankly knows
(27:30):
the NBA scene, just really knows as a great feel
for the game. You gotta prep hoops dot com or
fall m on Twitter at Joel fran Hoops. Joel Francisco
joins us here on the All Ball Podcast. Uh look,
I you're the perfect guy for this because we've seen
we've seen the Ball family. But we've seen and maybe
that was kind of the first of its kind. We've
(27:51):
seen other big AU teams. You go back to, you know,
before me, even when uh Rich Goldberg would have his
team's mid valley r C they fly guys in and
you know, Jason Kidd would suddenly be playing with Southern
California players and the Tracy McGrady Derek Martin days and
then is he Washington had his Slam and Jam teams.
But Lebron James coming to southern California with two teenage boys.
(28:16):
It feels like that's gonna forever change the dynamic of
AU basketball. Am I over selling it? No? I completely
I completely agree. I believe that we've got a taste
of it with the Ball family. You know, I had
never in the thirty years of covering this from when
I started doing with Tracy Murray and the following that
he had all the way through you know, these last
(28:37):
thirty years, and I've never seen anything like the Ball situation.
You know, going to gyms, it was a circus. And
then what happened last night, you know with Lebron coming
in the gym, and I would figure, like, you know,
have some hind sign the fact that Okay, here comes
Lebron Junior. We have social media. The gym was packed
and they had it in the small auxiliary jam and
(28:58):
I guess of some band came in started ripping Lebron
and it just turned into like a mini melee and
then they canceled the game. And it's like, what are
they going to do in the future here, you know,
like if he decides to go to Sierra Canyon Brentwood
High School, you know, I'm really intrigued to see, you know,
from a safety standpoint, you know, what is going to
(29:21):
happen with something California and for that matter, it's it's
fascinating because there's a lot of parts of Lebron which
are really interesting. He's done things, he's cleared his own path,
most of which I like, some of I don't. You can.
It's inarguable though that in terms of being an involved parent,
especially in comparison to you know, Larry Bird never had
a young boy in au Michael Jordan had two kids,
(29:43):
but he was we don't remember him ever kind of
being around. I called a couple of their high school
games and he was he was never around. Like he's
actually an involved parent. He actually uh, you know, he
knows the other kids names. He interacts with the team occasionally,
he helps coach like it is something. And but my
thing is, not only do you have that, but then
you have the hey, how are you going to keep
(30:03):
a kid on your team? If Brawnie says, hey, Dad,
I want him on my team, they decided they want to,
and Lebron James picks the phone says, hey do you
want to play with my son? I know. Yeah, by
the way, you're gonna get all the Lebron gear you want. Like,
no one's gonna say no to that, are they? Oh? No,
I would think not. I mean him coming to l
A is going to completely you know. I mean we
(30:24):
could see another level of I mean, we're gonna see
something different than the balls here. But yeah, I mean,
you know the way kids transfer nowadays, it's ridiculous. You know,
like c IF said something like sixteen thousand kids transferred.
That was even last year Focal Sports. But now with
Broun coming in and you know how he manages his
(30:46):
own NBA teams, Yeah, you could see him. You could
see you could start creating these, you know, all Star
au teams and wherever school his son ends up at,
you know where, We're gonna be pulling kids from everywhere. Maybe. Yeah.
You may mentioned all the transfers in the CIF, and
I know this happens everywhere. As a national podcast, I
think people are sitting there not on their heads and saying, yeah,
(31:08):
we have lots of problems with kids. Uh, it's kind
of on steroids here in southern California. Do you think
the player movement in the NBA is the cause of
the player movement in a U in high school basketball,
or do you think it's the other way around where
kids are always moving around a U in high school
and now they become pros and now so they don't
get they don't get as tied to a place or
(31:28):
two a team as they used to which which which
is the which is the chicken and which is the egg? Um,
I would say the ladder. I would think since these
kids now um are playing against each other and they
all know each other now, then's probably what he's mad
quell or teams where they're playing in these national based tournaments,
they're becoming friends and they keep these connections going. They're
(31:52):
never in college enough to create rivalries, so they just
go from this AUTH team conking for the n b
A and they like of Levon forming his team in
Miami and that, and it's just escalated from there. And
so I just I really believe it started with with
club basketball at a basketball wherever you want to call it.
With these guys that have become known that you know,
(32:13):
they've known each other for so long and they become
friends and they developed these friendships. And now you have
throughout the media and it's created a perfect storm. What's
your sense of what's going to happen. I know that
many people in your professional and you, I think you
tweeted out something which is great, which is like, hey,
the new rules potentially could still have the tournaments, just
(32:33):
the coaches wouldn't be allowed the tournaments, which would be
great for you as a professional evaluator that people respect
for more than thirty years. Like, just because coach K
can't sit there and have his assistance bird dog a kid,
doesn't mean that you can't evaluate him. Um. What's your
any guests as to what what the rules end up
being for the future of the July recruiting period. Um?
(32:55):
What I can see somebody mention that, let's say the
biggest one, the piece that would move to August or something.
I said, well, that would be impossible for my take
because so many schools now, including in southern California, first
starting school in August. So I could see a lot
of these tournaments moving to June while the instance away
has their camps whatever in Joly and have for you know,
(33:18):
evaluator like me or the best of both work and
this is all that June and then it's a lie
and I felt the number one thing for me that
I've had it with um, you know, restricting coaches from
coming out, I feel, for me is the most important month.
I would rather watch you can't play for me personally
with his high school team, see how he leads, see
how he carries his team. You know, I feel like
(33:40):
that's I think I can get a greater sense of
who this kid is rather than seeing, you know, the
multiple club games you see in jo Lie. Yeah, you
bring up a great point. You know, my brothers, you know,
is recruited at all the different levels, mostly in California,
and then of course O'Regan state for the last four years.
And I don't I actually think they're working the opposite
way of the of the way they should. You should
(34:00):
have assistance that are allowed to go out as often
as they want, right, just go out. And and if
your job is to evaluate and recruited kid, why are
we putting limits on it. I mean the fact is
that I understand, like my dad used to tell us
stories of of him, you know, sleeping over at a
kid's house that they were trying and sitting on, sitting
on a kid that they have Like, Okay, that's a
little bit overboard, but it's like limiting texts. It's like
(34:23):
when you couldn't text a kid. Like, look, if a
kid doesn't want doesn't want you to text him, he'll
just block you or he'll just delete it. If a
kid does, if he gets creeped out by a guy
keep coming to his game, he'll just you'll end up
wearing the kid out and he'll it'll turn him off.
I just let us let recruiting assistance do their job.
You want to restrict head coaches so they're on campus
(34:43):
more if you want to make sure that there's always
a coach on campus, like, that's fine, but this idea
that somehow you're protecting assistant coaches. All right, maybe August
is dark, nobody can see, anybody knows. But outside of that,
isn't it fair to say, like, hey, just let him recruit,
don't pay your players, don't change their grades, and kind
of the rest. Uh just almost a free market sort
(35:05):
of recruiting system. Yeah, I agree with that too, and
the fact that I believe it that we implement some
system like that will cut back on the multiple you know,
the ridiculous numbers are seeing in kids that are going
to schools, they're being overrecruited, and they end up bouncing
back to various other schools, you know, through a lower
level because in hindsight, these coaches don't have a great feel,
(35:28):
you know, for who they're recruiting. I mean, they're getting
such a limited time. There's some games going on until
Joel am I crazy. But I've always thought, you know,
we talked about transfers and the reason that players transfer.
We always believe it's because the kid wants more, the
parent wants more, and and that's some of it. But
but a good portion of it is the coach doesn't
(35:49):
exactly know what he's getting and the player doesn't exactly
have a great feel of what he's getting into because
they're because we're limiting the relationship and the length and
the quality of the relationship between who's recruiting and who's
being recruited. Is that is that a fair? Like? I know,
that's that's absolutely fair. And the thing is, when I
talked at two kids at camps, I say, hey, you,
(36:11):
I think what they missed a point and I think
you get caught up in the highest level and it's
like you need to find the best bit for your kid.
That's the bottom line. And here's the kid that's getting recruited.
Let's say at l M you Pepperdine or whatever. And
then he goes off in one game and washing and
the picture, Well, I'm going to go to Washington now,
(36:34):
you know, instead of saying no way, the Pepperdine system
fits me better, it's you know, as that's the kind
of situation that get fallen into. All right. Uh, you've
seen a lot of kids for a lot of years.
Give me the most the kid you've seen this uh
this spring and summer, that's most impressive to you? Most
impressive player. Um, I probably have to go up west. Um,
(36:56):
here's a guy that it's Evan Mobley. His older brother
isam always going to USC the US. He hired the
dad recently in the spring. Evan mobile for me. Um,
he's a kid. He's basically a combination. I'm not saying
he's the next Durant or Garnett type, but he's kind
(37:16):
of a combination of the two in terms of he's
got perimeitive skills. He's got I saw Kevin Ronnett in
high school. He's as quick off the floor, he's got
in between game, he's got He's got the whole package.
This is going to be a matter of strength in
terms of him going forward. But I would be stocked.
He's not NBA player down the road. Two or three
(37:38):
years ago. Cashi Stanley was that young player coming up
into high school basketball that everyone was talking about. He's
still very very well regarded, but but but not nearly
at the level that he was previously. You know, he's
top twenty to top thirty, maybe top forty nationally. Uh
what what type of impact do you think Cashi Stanley
who is at Siah Cannon, which one of the schools,
(37:59):
the big private schools in southern California. He was originally
a Harvard West like anyway that we were talking about
earlier for people were out of the area. What what
happened to Kasha Stanley and what type of impact do
you think will have when he ultimately plays in college? Well,
I mean, for me, cash of Stanley is in the
half um. I think when you see him in the
club situation, in a wide open game, he's an NBA athlete,
(38:23):
There's no question about that. But for me, you know,
for someone that was doing a long time, and I'm
sure you would get the same feel for him if
you watch them actually in the game. He has improved,
but there's not something he could probly depend on in
a game when it slows down. His jump shot is
still needs to get more consistent. Is decreason making you know,
as a pinching all of these to be a point
(38:44):
guard because everybody needs to be a point guard now
And I'm sorry you played the position. It takes a
certain feel for the game, could be that to play
that player. And so I think now if someone just
allowing him to be a two guard and work on
that skill set, then I think he could be a
very good college player. And I'm probably a pro. But
right now, for me, he's got some areas he really
(39:06):
needs to grow in. It's it's going to be fascinating
to see if he does go because it was it
was a little bit too much, uh too soon. There's
a big guy in southern California. I would I would
love to have your opinion on kid named Carl Lewis
at Linwood High School. Six put up some big numbers
this year, but you know, like, look, we're in the
age of the big man that doesn't score at the
(39:28):
low block. We're in the age of you've got to
be a roller and a finisher at the rim and
a rim protector or a stretch five. What's the prospects
like for a kid like Carl Lewis who is a
rising jr. UM. What you know, Carl Lewis, he has
some stuff off the court that needs to be taken
care of. Um, He's he's got a long way to
(39:51):
go in terms of becoming a bassal player. Yes, he's
built like Karl Malone and but in terms of you know,
skill fundamental, Um, he hasn't spent a lot of time.
You know, he's done a lot of the stuff going
on to put it bluntly and put it violay. In
fact that I don't think he's really had a lot
of time to work on those aspects of the game.
(40:12):
So for me, massively rated. He's one of these guys
that you know, played at lin Win High School, didn't
play against you know, the greatest competition in terms episode,
there was no one that could handle him. But so
there's certain areas in his game that he really needs
UH to take care of, as well as some other
aspects of his wife come together before if he's able
to play college. In my opinion. That's great, great feedback
(40:35):
from Joel Francisco has been doing this over thirty years.
Is a great job in southern California. Follow him on Twitter.
You got to prep hoops. You got to prep hoops
dot com. Uh. Last thing I want to ask you
about Kawhi Leonard because he look, he was Gatorade Player
of the Year, but he played MLK and out in Riverside.
He was a six five six six postman who has become,
you know, a top five by many people's accounts, third
(40:57):
best player in the NBA. And because he's super super quiet,
we don't know what to make of him. What's what's
your assessment as a guy who saw him at his
his infancy as a player, grow into a star at
San Diego State, a superstar in the NBA, and now
trying to, we think, manipulate his way back to Los Angeles.
(41:18):
What's your assessment of kind of the situation, how he's
handled and what the ultimate end game is. Um You know,
watching Kauai in high school, you don't to be honestly,
I never thought he reached the level that he's at
right now. I thought he's I thought he was a
high major recruit, you know, top fifty national propects of
Urk's length, he's got the biggest hands. But you know something,
(41:42):
He's always been a no nonsense player, no emotion and
just go out there and I'm gonna be productive and
do my job at both ends of the floor. However,
this year was the story that I've heard. I become skeptical,
you know about Okay, we're in factive and I don't
want to know character. You know, character assassinates this guy.
But I heard he was able to play and he
(42:04):
chose not to play, and so that for me, that
brings up red flags with direction, Um he's handling his
situations now, because this is not the same kid that
I talked to in high school. And you know, got
to know true that a you see and all that stuff.
So I'm kind of curious to see, really intrigued to
see how he does in the Toronto this year and
really watch his approach to the game. And because we
(42:26):
all know what he can do on the basketball court,
I mean, arguably what the best maybe best the way
player in the game today. So I'm very intrigued to
see what he goes this year at Toronto. What about it?
What about Dorozen, like, I do feel like de Rosen somehow,
And he was bad in in the playoff series against
UM against Lebron Javelers, he just he wasn't good. He
(42:47):
was fantastic in their and their first round series, fantastic.
I saw him at the Garden. This is two years ago,
Drop thirty nine the Garden. I was like, damn, Demard Rosen.
It is a but he is the closest. He's got
a Kobe style of offensive games. Um, it's just you know,
now there's so much the three point shot is so
much more important. How do you think his personality will
mesh with Gregg Popovich? Well, it's gonna be um. Um.
(43:11):
To be honest with you, I'm excited for him, you know,
um being in that system because I kind of like
in a way Kauai where he's quiet. He's not you know,
he's not real that assertive personality out there, but he
just goes about his business, takes care of it. So
really I treat to see how he fits in the
pop system. Um. I think he's going to become you know,
(43:31):
it's continued to be his efficient self. But like you said,
the key to hist game there is which it really
has become as his three point shot, and he's been
very good in the mid range area that you're like,
he said, as the mid range shot, is it usable
as it was you know, ten fifteen years ago. So
I'm really impreued to see how he takes in the
pop system. I think he's gonna be fine because I
think he's a good kid, and I think he wants
(43:52):
to you know, wants to be taught, and I think
it's uh, I think it's gonna be turned out to
be a good situation for I do too. It's weird
though that LaMarcus Aldrich is a midpost in the low
post kind of turnaround jump shots score and then you
got Demark Rosen was great in the mid range. Like
that goes counter to everything in two eighteen that the
spirits are kind of ahead of the curve on but
that's what they're gonna have to live with. So it'd
be will be fasting to see and then you know,
(44:13):
it's it's it's interesting, you know, I think about Tracy
Murray and and the volume of threes he shot when
you first started this business and what he would be now,
how valuable weapon now he would have to guard better
than he did then now in order to stay on
the floor. But it is, it's amazing how even when
I came up in the mid nineties, we used to
(44:33):
criticize big guys, stop shooting jump shots and get inside
and scored the low block right and everyone, and we did,
and and point guards were told you stop, don't you
pull up threes, get into that mid range pull up game.
And now, of course that's disappeared because of analytics and
the realization that it's smarter to play the other way.
It's gotta be fast for you to have to evaluate
guys in the in the ever evolving game of basketball.
(44:56):
Oh yeah, I mean it was really interesting. You know,
you know stagna Us Uh, you know who he is. Uh.
It terms to be running all these camps. He's one
of the eight you grewers out for a lot last
thirty years. He had a Pengos All American camps and
in June and there was a plethora of guys in
the six eight, six nine range. And these guys are
pulling up and and jack and threes and their shot
(45:17):
looks good. It's almost like you know, with Lebron, I
saw Lebron Uh freshman software in high school, and he
just knew he was different. He was kind of a
little bit of Magic, a little bit of Michael and
you know, built like a calling, but he wasn't built
like carmalone until now. But when you watch Kevin Durant,
I see these these these kids are seeing these types
of stars and they're implementing those schools for those skills
(45:39):
early on in their game. And now we're just seeing
this game trunch transformed into this you know, free and
D But you know something that on old school. Um,
I like to point how he still passed to facilitates
like you did in high school. And I'm still I'm
gonna still the big guy getting to get your button posts,
you know, be a rin protector, you know, filled the lane,
and I saw I'm still sand of the bold range game.
(46:01):
I think that's key for me. That's gonna be key
for Alonso. You know, Alonzo struggled in the paint area
and if he can just implement that and get back
going and get stronger, his game is going to go
to in a level and I think that will bring
out his shots better too in the marketsistant manner. So
I mean, I think the mid range game. And I
still think guys could still play in the back, you know,
with the basket BA baskets something too. Maybe I'm to
(46:24):
go old school. No, I don't, I don't know. I
honestly don't think you're wrong. I mean, look at look
at the NBA Finals, look at or look at look
at the Golden State Warriors, Like, look, do they shoot
a ton of three? Is absolutely when they needed a bucket,
they got to ball to Kevin Durant either in the
post or A lot of people love mid range jump shots,
you know, like if if if the best of the
best can make seventy percent of those, then you still
take it. And I do think that I think the
(46:45):
Lebron's done or what he's had to do. You know,
he's been more effective when he's had his back to
the basket and he can pass. You know, that's where
do you think about the Olympics teams that's for ski
Lebron at the high post and the facilitates, you know,
using his passing acumen. So I mean, I I know
I feel still well, look, I'm fascinated. I mean basketball,
(47:07):
It's not that basketball has lacked energy in the West Coast,
but with the Lakers potentially being good. Um and with
you know, Lebron and his son bringing attention to AU basketball.
There's been a ton of talent here obviously with the
private schools out there recruiting. I think now it will
be hyped up and it'll be great for your job,
be great for us as well. Joel Francisco falm on
Twitter at Joel fran Hoops, go to prep hoops dot com.
(47:29):
He's been a basketball scout for over thirty years. He's
the SoCal UH scouting coordinator for ESPN. He does an
amazing job. Joel, thanks so much for joining us here
on the All Ball Podcast. Appreciate it. Appreciate it a lot,
have a good one. There's just kind of a sense
of that's what July is about. I mentioned Kaui earlier.
(47:51):
He's not participating, he's not playing, and he's saying, well,
I need to transition to Toronto, and I just look,
I think to no did well in the trade I do.
I mean, if you substitute out to Mard Rosen, who
I like more than other people like, but you put
Kawhi Leonard in there and they got legit shot. Make
one last push in the East if not, scrap it
(48:12):
start again. Um, but what's you know, Greg Popovitch has
done nothing but take the high road. It's not like
they're gonna grind you into the ground when you're playing
in Vegas, you haven't played all year. I kind of
feel like he needs that. Um. But Kawhi Leonard is
he's beating to his own drum. And for a guy
(48:33):
who has earned, not been given, earned so much respect
in NBA circles for playing both ends, steadily improving his
jump shot, which was he was not a guard, he
was a center coming up, and the big questions were, um,
could he ever, you know, be a decent three point shooter?
And he's become a very good and a good ball handler.
(48:55):
He's just he's undone some of the great things, some
of the some of the respect that he's gained, it's
easy to get. It's not hard to gain it back.
You get on the floor, you start playing for for Toronto,
you play the right way, even if you want to
make your way to the Lakers next year. But I
just want I'm okay with guys not playing for Pop
who played the whole year, you know, and or played
(49:16):
for USA Basketball in the past, but when you're one
of the best players in the game, you want to
play nine games this year and you should be fully healthy.
You pass the physical, go and play, go and play,
be the try and take the high road the way
Greg pop Fitch has taken the high road. I don't
think that's a great look. Um. Last thing in regards
to the NBA, you saw this with Carmelo Anthony who said,
you know, basically it was a bad fit in Oklahma
(49:36):
City because he didn't have enough time. All he had
was training camp in the season. Like what more do
you need more than training camp in the season? How
much more time? Like is there some boardroom? Yeah, it
was there, hoodie mellow workouts that could have that you
could have transitioned better to Oklahoma City. I'm I respect
Carmelo Anthony because he was the best three level score
(49:57):
in the NBA for a good seven or eight years.
He was an amazing offensive player, but he didn't keep
himself consistently good enough shape. He wasn't a good teammate.
And more than anything, you know, as you mature, as
you get to be an adult. I've said this, there's
three things that adults do that kids don't do adults
never turned down a nap all right, adults will order
(50:18):
vegetables an adults point in when something goes wrong, they say,
my bad, I made a mistake. Carmelo Anthony has never said,
you know, look that didn't work in Oklahoma City and
it's my fault. I didn't buy in defensively. I struggle
to buy it offensively. You know, I wasn't willing to
come off the bench. That's my bad, even if even
if it it wasn't all his fault. Taking more blame
(50:41):
then you should is the smarter path than the more
mature path. But we've created he's becoming like an Allen
Iverson where his his NBA career maybe over sooner than
it should because of his inability to find a Carmelo
Anthony two point oh. And then as far as the
Kevin Durant tweets with CJ. McCollum, we talked about a
little bit earlier. Um, Kevin Durant has uh. He was
(51:05):
quote earlier today as saying, let me pull up this quote,
kind of a fascinating quote from from Kevin Durant. He
he said, here's the quote. Uh to Anthony Slader, I
know you think I'm sensitive, but I'm but just somebody
who's tired of holding ship in So apparently Kevin Durant
(51:25):
he's mad as hell and he's not taken anymore. And
now when people talk trash to him, he's just gonna
let it, let it, which is great, like we want
dudes with no filter. Uh. The problem is a lot
of the things he's saying are going counter to either
one thinks he's done in the past and to the
way he's handled himself like he did have a he
did have burner accounts in which he defended himself. In
the past. He did he was the guy who said, oh,
(51:47):
everybody wants go to Nixon the Lakers. He didn't agree
with that in the past, and now he goes to
the Warriors, and it's it's really interesting, some guys. The
social media thing, people don't react to your twee. It's
the way that you think when you press send. You
may think you're joking. You may even do hashtag sarcasm,
and it doesn't I'm as guilty of that as anybody.
(52:08):
But the Kevin Durant thing is fascinating. He's kind of
finding his way as he goes. Meanwhile, he's a two
time NBA Finals m v P. Who's fighting with other
NBA players or just random dudes on Twitter. Is one
of the most NBA two thousand eighteen things I've ever
heard of. It's bizarre. It's bizarre. All right, we'll talk more.
NBA will wrap up the July recruiting period. Also talk
(52:31):
some USA basketball next week on the All Ball Podcast.
Thanks so much for listening. Make sure you tell your friends, download, subscribe,
download and rate it. I'm Doug Gottlieb. Listen to the
radio show daily twelve to three Pacific time, three to
six Eastern time. This is all by
Hey, welcome in. I'm done godly, this is all ball,
all basketball, all the time with NBA. With Yes. Now
we're gonna talk to some recurring with you. The July
evaluation period is honest, so of course we're gonna reach
out to Vegas where everything goes down in terms of
the last weekend in July EVL. The date of this
(00:27):
recording is Thursday July. On Wednesday July, there was an out.
There's a huge like the a U Game of the Year,
if you will. It was the Compton Magic versus Team Takeover,
Team Takeover. Of course, you can follow them on Twitter
at T t O Basketball. We'll get some insight into
(00:48):
their roster as well into the Compton Magic. They're at
Compton Underscore Magic Big game at Bishop Gorman. Compton Magic
win by two points. Full house, packed house for the
Las Vegas Fab forty eight, which of course my guy
Dinos Tragonis puts on every year. And um, it's gonna
be interesting to see what happens with Juli recruiting. There's
(01:10):
a lot of July recruiting guys that are gloom and
doom thinking the n c A is gonna just like
Lemmings follow the recommendation of Colindar, Condoleeza Rice and the
rest of her committee members. Um, I'm not so sure.
And as I've stated on previous podcasts, there've been all
sorts of different incarnations of what the summer looks like,
and almost without fail, the shoe companies survive. The players
(01:35):
who have um, who have been evaluated in different venues
for years, will still be evaluated, and most of the
same people, at least the good ones, the ones that
have earned the respect of the AU and the basketball community,
will still stay around the sport. How it actually plays
how I don't know yet. But before you say gloom
(01:55):
and doom and make fun of the fact that Condoleeza
Rice has never stepped inside in a you gymnasium, let
alone a big time AU game, I'm with you. But
let's not go gloom and doom until the actual rule
comes out and then to see how it actually plays.
Because the the genius to some of these a you guys,
some of these people that put put on events is
they find a way to succeed even when the rules
(02:18):
are against them, like they're not, They'll they'll find a way.
There will be games, they will have the best players,
and the question becomes, can they make it more centralized?
Can there can be continued coaching? You know, it's it's
interesting as we come off of the World Cup and
how many great basketball players we produce as a country
(02:39):
and how a few great soccer players we produce as
a company. Yes, the AU system can run a muck,
and look, do I think that all guys belong in college?
Probably not. But the fact is that, however screwed up
our system of raising young stars in basketball is it
(03:00):
does seem to work now. It's helped by the fact
that and I've stated this on a radio show which
you can hear daily three to Succeeds from Time quoted
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, the I Heart Radio
appen on our serious XM Channel three. UM. Part of
it is helped out by the best athletes still play
football and basque football and basketball in high schools and
(03:22):
in growing up. It's still cooler than playing soccer. So
I'm not blind to the fact that you have a
better caliber of athlete. You start with that as the premise.
And you know a lot of kids now have dads
or moms or dads and moms that both played so
there's a tremendous amount of sports basketball. Like you within
the household, you know you're you're not playing with the
(03:44):
same hand of cards that everybody else is playing with.
Understand that, But the amount of creativity, the amount of games, uh,
the the level of competition, the diversity of competition is
so great that we continue to pump out far and
away the greatest percentage of the best basketball players on earth.
(04:08):
And this is not to diminish the Argentines who have
made a not who have made a name for themselves
in the NBA. Dirk Davitsky as a German um so
many of the Yugoslavians, the Serbians, you you know, you
name it. There have been players from all of those.
Brazilians have made the Spaniards, of course, but the truth
(04:28):
is that the reason are younger teams are dominating is
one the leadership of USA Basketball and two we do
have the best and most diverse group of athletes out there.
And three, frankly, this screwy system to which players bounce
some team to team shoot companies always kind of seemed
(04:49):
to have um something in the game. And all these
vivid personalities who may or may not be funneling money
from somewhere reputable or somewhere of ill repute to some
of these players, to some of their families to take
care of these kids before they get to college, before
they become professional. However screwy it is, it does have
(05:13):
a tendency to work. It does. All right, let's talk
about the news of the day with the NBA. Two things,
One Kauai not playing for USA Basketball and two Kevin
Durant getting into it with c J McCullum on Twitter
after sitting down with CJ McCullum and appearing on his podcast.
(05:34):
And it's interesting because you can have if you listen
to the podcast. I think it speaks really well to
Kevin Durant. There's a lack of there's nothing for him
to be defensive about, but he definitely wasn't. He wasn't
defensive in it. Now what c G I think did
(05:55):
which I don't like that people in the media have
a tendency to do. And I think he understands that. Now,
when you host a podcast, it becomes far different than
when you're just on Twitter or when you appear as
somebody else's guest on the podcast. He never mentioned that
the words soft. He never mentioned the words soft in
(06:16):
regards to Kevin Rant. Kevin Rand appears in the podcast.
He didn't turn to him at least a part I heard.
He never said, Hey, that decision you made to join
the Golden State Warriors was soft. And then in subsequently
on Twitter, he did use the soft word, and he
also contradicted himself saying, you know, he he didn't have
(06:39):
a problem with it, but it was soft. It was
a soft decision. And so look, there's a lot of
and there's an analogy missed in terms of using it
when you're not a gang guy. I don't know why
you use a gang analogy. I understand the hey, you
got beat up by guys and so instead of you know,
showing some grittiness and toughness and learning how to fight
(06:59):
and fighting your way out of it. I got the reference.
Kevin Durant. I thought took the reference a different way,
took the the parallel a different way. But I look
at this and I I'm just kind of blown away. Uh.
Buy a couple of things. One, I think Stage McCullum,
(07:19):
who has great intentions at heart, has now learned a
really hard kind of conundrum that many people in this
business face, which is, if you rip a guy when
he's not on your show, are you willing to be
at least mildly combative when he is. And I'm not
(07:40):
going to point out other radio hosts who came, but
a lot of them do. They completely lay down. They
will kill a guy, and then that same guy will
come on and be on their show, and one while
they're on, and then too. I think the worst part
is after they've been on, because now they feel like
they're a friend, they won't ever say anything bad about them,
even when they deserve. Like my whole thing is, you'll
(08:03):
hear people appear on this, you'll hear people peer on
my radio show. A way I feeling for other right
people with radio show, and you can say I'm coming
at them, But I just think it's unfair to say, like, hey,
this this guy's decision was soft. Then you have that
guy on and you have Kevin Durant on and not
state your opinion as it being soft and why you
think it's soft, and allowing him during that time to
(08:24):
dispute that, now what c J did that that's he's
not the only one. And it's really really hard, especially
when he's just learning in this business. He's just starting out.
The podcast is called the pull Up Podcast, right, pull up,
jump shot, get it pull up. But like, look, if
you're going to go on to Twitter and called Kevin
(08:47):
Durant's decision to join the Golden State Warrior soft, you
gotta say the same thing to Kevin Durant when is
in person. The amazing part about Katie joining the Golden
State Warriors that no one outside of me has mentioned
on national radio is that it wasn't just that k
D needed the Warriors to win a championship. The Warriors
(09:08):
needed Kevin Durant. We all point to seventy three wins, right,
that's the big thing. Well, he was on a seventy
three win team. That seventy three win team did not
win a championship, and that seventy three win team probably
should have lost to the Oaklahoma City Thunder. That team
was not as good as their record would tell you.
It just wasn't case in point. They also with first
(09:29):
team to ever lose the three games one lead in
the NBA Finals. It's just like on that same podcast,
the Portland Trailblazers were forty nine and thirty three they
were the number three seed, the number three seed in
the NBA playoffs, and Kad said, y'all played like an
eight seed. That's because their record was not indicative of
just how good they were. Damian Lillard played above his
(09:52):
level the second half of the year. He had an
incredible year, and half the teams in the West were tanking.
You combine that so many of the injuries, you know,
Andre Robertson getting hurt, the trade the Jazz went through
kind of mid season. You know, we we have a
tendency to you know, the trade the Clippers went through
and they trade away Blake Griffin the Lakers. When did
(10:14):
you play the Lakers? Did you play the Lakers? And
they the older players when they had Isaiah Thomas or
when they went young late in the season. They were
trying to win games, you know, so like, look, I
your regular season record, and I understand seventy three wins
had never been done before. You season record, though, has
never been indicative of whether or not you're a championship team.
Case in Point Eastern Conference, who had the best record
(10:36):
fifty nine wins The Toronto Raptors. They weren't the favorites
to get to the NBA Finals. Neither were the Boston
Celtics with fifty five wins or the Philadelphia seventy sixers
with fifty two wins. So the first thing that we
have to start with and talking about Kevin Durant is
the Warriors needed him. They were not a perfect team.
They did win seventy three games, that's because they were
(10:58):
a sixties six five win team that that went for it.
They went for the jugular. They went for every last
win when other teams have decided to shut it down.
You sub about Harrison Barnes and most of their bench,
you lost Andrew Bogan as well, and you end up
adding Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant needed the Warriors, needed the
(11:20):
space to show just how good a player he was.
But the Warriors needed Kevin Durand equally. Otherwise I'm not
sure they win another championship. You can dispute that all
you want, but you I would think Harrison Barnes would
get better because you're so early in his career. But
if you resigned Harrison Barnes, are you absolutely gonna win
the last two championships? So two years ago, you're absolutely
(11:42):
gonna win the Championship, Like, I don't know that the
answer is yes against Kyrie Irvan, Kevin Love, Lebron James
and that Calve team that they had lost to the
previous year. I would have liked to seen it now.
Was Kevin Durant's decisions soft? You know, everybody likes to
claim this is like how everyone likes to claim that
(12:03):
they grew up super poor. No one's ever grown up
and said, like, no, I really grew up comfortable. You
you talk about how you grew up to somebody else,
and it seems that every person on earth grew up barefoot,
butt naked walking to school and a foot of snow
walking home from school. It was uphill both ways, right,
(12:24):
No one ever grew up with money. That's like the
same thing with the NBA. It's always got to be
the toughest road. If you have a problem with what
Kevin Durant did, that's fine, But you also should have
a problem with what Lebron James did when he left
and he went to Miami. That was Duane Waide and
they added Chris Bosh and oh yeah, by the way,
then later on they added Ray Allen like he joined
(12:47):
a stacked team. Why wouldn't you join a stack team?
And it will be fascinating to see how we react
to Lebron this year with a team that's the opposite
of stacked, a team that has a bunch of young
pieces and kind of the isle of mims bit toys
on the bench. So I don't think it was about
being soft or being tough. I think it's fake toughness
to sit there and bash your head in. I honestly
(13:09):
think he was ready for something new. I've said this
all along. And he was also ready for space, space
so that you couldn't double team him, so he could
show that he was the best one on one scorer
in the league, that he had an unstoppable weapon and
that's his pull up jump shot. And you know what,
the last two NBA finals, he's proven to be right
(13:30):
all right. Last night in Las Vegas was uh the
a AU game. Really of the year is the champions
of the Adidas Gauntlet Series and the champions of the
E Y B Yell. It's a Nike series met up
and Evan Daniels he has his own podcast. It's really good.
You can download it, will tweet it out. UH. Fox
Sports does it. Of course, Evan Dance called the Sidelines.
Evan Danns joins us on the Doug Gottlieb Show. Um, Look,
(13:54):
every year there is one of these Titanic matchups. They
used to be back in my day. They used to
be for the championship of a tournament. That's not the
way it works. What was the level of intensity for
this game as opposed to ones that actually decided tournament championships? Honestly, Doug,
I thought it was one of the better played a
(14:14):
you were, high school games that I've seen and me
a long time. It was he had Bishop Gore, meaning
it was pretty much nearly sold out, UM, and so
there was a good crowd. But there the intensity between
the two was it was pretty high level. And we're
talking about two UM programs that won a ton this year,
(14:37):
you know, a Comtin Magic won both Fadida's July tournaments. Uh,
team Takover undefeated in the E y b L and
then won the Nike Pete Shampu. So it's uh, it
was it was a pretty competitive affair. You know. I
think I thought, here's the thing that I thought best
last year was Zion Williamson against against Lonzo Ball, Right
(14:58):
that was the that was the big man chep. But
but part of it was the circus of the balls.
Whereas this was just about ball meaning basketball, right, this
was just about two really good au teams made up
of players are gonna be played college basketball. Some guys
are risers, some guys have always been rated highly. More
so than being about the circus, this one was more
about basketball. Is that is that fair? No, no question?
(15:20):
And if you look in the stands, that was pretty
evident by the college coaches that were there. And you know,
I talked to a lot of people that were really
impressed with the way that game went and the coaching
in that game and the players. I mean this was there.
There was dudes on each team. I mean, the team
takeover and come the magic. All those guys are gonna
play at the least theyd major basketball. And um that
(15:43):
the coaching was really good. It was. It was a
high level game. And I walked away really impressed with
the Comple Magic big man, the Comble magicans and the
winning by a couple in overtime. But they're post players
really were the difference, I think. And then you know
Jared Lucas, he just committed to play for my brother
and their staff at Oregon State. Johnny Jusang is a
really really good shooter. Um, So who who helped themselves
(16:07):
the most? You mentioned on Congo course? Who has been
been a riser? The Mobili? Of course that's why sc
hired their dad, like they've been well regarded. Is there
any who else on that team benefited the most from
this game and from their performance? Um is that That's
tough because most of those guys were already pretty highly touted.
I walked away impressed with Johnny Jusang. I think over
(16:30):
the last year he shirt up his shot selection and
he's become a more efficient player. I noticed the start
of that at the U seventeen trials in mid June,
and I thought in this game, um, he took good shots.
He made a number of three pointers, he hit a
couple of mid range pull ups. I thought he was
(16:50):
one of the difference makers and and just his scoring
and shooting ability. Uh. The other side, I mean to
Taker had some guys that played really well, justin Morrik
committed a pavilion over with really good as well. Jeremy
Roach I think was the most impressive player for Takeover.
E's two point guard, actually the number one point guard
in that class. Um, so both sides had some guys
(17:10):
that certainly helped her stock. Yeah, you mentioned, um, you
mentioned Justin Moore who's set to go to Villanova. That's
where he's committed to. Villanova. Is interesting and you cover
the Big East and part of the Biggie Show on
Fox Sports One. As they've done unbelievable job winning two
or three national championships and we've seen Josh Hart winning
the Summer League MVP. How well regarded they are. All
(17:31):
four of those guys go in the first round of
the NBA Draft, but there there's a lot of turnover there. Um,
I know they're recruiting a little bit higher level. This
is it's kind of interesting, like how do they maintain
their culture with so many new faces. Yeah, I mean
I think that's gonna be um, that's gonna be a
big factor. But I think obviously what we've seen from
(17:54):
j right over the last couple of years, I think
he's uh, he's certainly fit to handle that. They're bringing
in a really good class from two thousand eighteen and
two dozen nineteen. They've got a top fifty two, top
seventy type guys Justin Moore and Eric Dickerson, Eric Dixon.
But that two thousand eighteen Hall is really good. Javan
(18:14):
Quin Early a five star guy, so crafty and creative.
I think he comes right in and and you're not
gonna be able to replace Jalen Brunson. But I think
he fits how Villanova wants to play. He's got such
a good feel for the game. He can set guys up.
I think he'll come in and make an instant impact,
and guys like Brandon Slater and Cole Swider will help
them out on the perimeters. Later is a big time
(18:37):
score at six six. He's got long arms. Uh, he
can make shots. He's athletic. I mean, they're they're obviously
lost a lot and most of those guys you're not
gonna be able to replace Doug as you know, but
they're bringing in a good recruiting class with solid players.
Um that really fit in Villanova. All right, Let's let's
go through a couple of the two thousand nineteens. Okay,
there's are rising seniors. He's Cole Anthony the best player
(18:59):
in that class. No, I think James Wiseman is the best. Well,
it could be the best player. I think James Wiseman
is the best prospect. Uh and when you go out
our to our rankings, that's what we're uh. And and
by Evan real quick Evan. By by prospect you mean
NBA prospect or college but because because because it's very
interesting in prospect more so than more so, I think
(19:21):
he's I think he's the best long term prospect. I
mean he's pushing seven, feat's got a seven six wings fan,
He's mobile, he impacts the game on both ends of
the court. Uh, he's really developing his offensive skill set. Unfortunately,
he's been banged up, and he would have been on
that U sevent teen team that won a gold medal,
but he got hurt and he's really played July kind
(19:42):
of kind of banged up as well. But I don't
get me wrong, I think cole anthing is great. We
have number two, UM six three explosive athlete as competitive
as you'll you'll find. I mean that this kid gets
after it on both ends of the court as well.
I think he's more of a combo than he an
actual point right now. His mentality is always to score.
(20:03):
So if I had a knock on him, it would
be you know, go create for brothers and and and
him as well. He needs to share up his shock
selection a little um as well. But he's obviously very
very gifted, very talented, can really score and he's a
high level athlete. Am I crazy think? Jene McDaniels another
another top five guy. You know, he's he's from Washington.
(20:24):
That's the kind of guy that Mike Hopkins has to get. Right.
The whole thing in Seattle is if you keep the
Seattle kids home in Seattle's up. Now you've got a
chance to win the league. Now you got a chance
to build something special. Hop did a really good job
in his first year, especially considering the turnover within the program.
But doesn't McDaniels become one of those guys that he
almost has to get? Yeah, Jade McDaniels is a priority
(20:46):
recruit for sure. Um, I think it's a tough task,
not only because he's the uh, you know, elite recruit
that I think Blue Bloods are starting to snip around with.
There's a relationship with San Diego State that goes way
back with his brother being there. But you're right, I mean,
Mike Hopkins and his staff have to prioritize him. They
you know, he's the type of guy that could really
(21:08):
help them shift that program quickly. And he's he's we're
talking about best players in the class. I mean, this
kid three or four years from now, we're gonna be
looking back and it's special because he's he's he's made
a major leap from where he was this time last
year to now, and his skill set is continue to develop.
(21:30):
He's becoming more confident, is shooting the ball better, He's
just making abourdmans across the board. Uh. It feels like
terrise Maxi has taking his game to a higher level
this summer, whether it's a Team USA or playing a
U basketball and he feels like he's that's the type
of guy that Kentucky builds an entire recruiting class round
now because because of his style. Apply Ah, he certainly
(21:51):
fits that. Yes, Um, I think that. What I like
about Tyrese is he's versatile. You can play him as
a two guard, you can play him in a calm role,
you can put the ball in his hands and he
can go create for brothers. I mean, his biggest strength
is his ability to score. He does that, um really well.
He can get to the ram and take contact and finish.
(22:11):
He can create shocks for himself. Pull up from mid range,
he can make off the catch threes. I think that's
an area he could still improve. But he's just wired
up to get uh. Nico Mannon as a kid who
he could have been two thousand twenty instead of ann
I think last week that he's gonna graduate this year. UH,
A talented point guard from you know, Pinnacle in Arizona.
(22:33):
There's lots of talk that he could be the guy
that Sean Miller kind as he tries to rebuild his
program rebuilds a guy like Nico Mannion. What's your sense?
I know it's it's still really early in these things now,
especially with the elite recruits. A lot of these guys
are deciding late. What's your sens on Nico Mannion? I
know why he moved up his data graduation and graduated
eighteens in a nineteen and it's not gonna hurt him
(22:54):
in any way. UM, but is this is this to
go to Arizona or something else? At play? I think
there's a good chance he could go there. I mean,
I think it's VIM and Duke Villanova is also in
the mix and Jay Wright was out in l A
last Sunday to see him. Um. But Arizona has done
a really good job for a long time recruiting him.
(23:16):
They've made him a priority. I don't know that Sean
Miller has missed uh many of his games. He was
at the same event l A on Sunday. Um Uh,
They've They've just been after him for so long. I
think it would be pretty deflating for Sean Miller and
his staff if they missed out on him, because I
think they have been the favorite. But anytime Duke comes
(23:36):
uh sniffing around and jump into the recruitment, it's dangerous.
So they've still got to close it out. Okay, so
let me ask you. Okay, so there's Cole Anthony and
I know that that his dad obviously is close with
Coach K. There's talk of Cole Anthony and Duke. Um
can they would they both go there? And then I
guess the second part to that is, uh, Look, Jeff
Capel did a great job of spearheading a lot of
(23:57):
their recruiting. I know Coach K still there. They have
a really young, active quality staff, but it's different when
Capel's not there. First year sense of could Manion and
Anthony both go to Duke and then has Duke's recruiting
will change at all without Jeff Capel. Well, here's the thing.
Cole Anthony has made it clear that he's not making
(24:18):
his college choice for a long time. So this is
the worst point guard class I think I've ever evaluated.
It might be the worst overall class I've ever evaluated,
but point guards especially, it's bad. So you can't afford
to wait around for Cole till May. You've got to
go out and get a get one of these big
time guys. Um and if maybe you can, you know,
(24:38):
talk him into play with with the other guy, you
get great. But uh, I just think that you can't
really wait around. Um So, I think Duke's going to
or has started to prioritize nik o'mannon. Would they love
to have Cole Anthony? I think they definitely would love
to have Cole Anthony with those two co exist in
the same backward I don't know the answer to that.
(25:00):
Um So, yeah, I think that's an interesting scenario to
see how it all plays out. And obviously you mentioned
Jeff Capel. Anytime you lose a guy of that caliber
that was so good at building relationships and um brought
a lot of really good recruits to the table. I
think it's a it's a loss. Obviously, Chris Carroroll was
(25:21):
was hired in his place, and you know Nate James
was a guy that went out and got Zian Williamson
last year. John Shire has has been the appointment on
a guy like Jayson Tatum. So it's not like these
other guys haven't gotten players. UM. But like I said,
anytime you lose somebody at caliber of Jeff Capel at hurt,
I know you want to go back, duck back into
the gym mass you really quickly. Zion Williamson's like a
(25:42):
YouTube sensation right, a dunking machine, but he's a little
bit heavy. Um. I mean I think I think at
his best he'll be he's got a chance to be
an undersized uh kind of athletic four. But you really
got to shoot and guard in order to do that.
And the one thing about coach k is, you know
they kind of way the white flag and they played
zone last year. What's your sense of of of what
(26:05):
you think we'll see from Zion Williamson. He plays for
Duke next season. Well, I think we're going to see
the electric athlete. I think we're going to see a
guy that actually has a pretty good feel feel for
the game and can really pass um. I think when motivated,
he's a really good rebounder. I think one of the
things that that caused me to take a step back
(26:26):
to them last year was he didn't always play hard
and uh, he was rarely ever in great shape. I
think the thing that we're going to see from him
at Duke is one They're gonna get him in shape,
uh and too. I'm curious to see what kind of
effort he gives forth on the court. And he was
known for those dunks, um and the highlights and transition. Uh,
(26:47):
there's some other stuff there. In terms of this passing,
I think he does that at a pretty uh at
a pretty good level. But he's gonna have to improve
his jump shot and uh last viewing in high school,
it was a ways away. Evan Daniels got his podcast
called The Sidelines with Evan Daniels Fox Sports, Fox Sports
dot Com. Of course, a great way to pick on
just fall him on Twitter. He's got all the information.
(27:08):
Get back in the gym, get back covering those games
plus Team USA. Thanks for joining us, Hey, thanks for
having me on, Doug. I appreciate it. Man. All right,
let's let's continue that conversation about Prep hoops and kind
of the Lebron takeover. I think it's gonna be fascinating.
Guy who for more than thirty years has covered Southern
California AU basketball. He knows the college scene, frankly knows
(27:30):
the NBA scene, just really knows as a great feel
for the game. You gotta prep hoops dot com or
fall m on Twitter at Joel fran Hoops. Joel Francisco
joins us here on the All Ball Podcast. Uh look,
I you're the perfect guy for this because we've seen
we've seen the Ball family. But we've seen and maybe
that was kind of the first of its kind. We've
(27:51):
seen other big AU teams. You go back to, you know,
before me, even when uh Rich Goldberg would have his
team's mid valley r C they fly guys in and
you know, Jason Kidd would suddenly be playing with Southern
California players and the Tracy McGrady Derek Martin days and
then is he Washington had his Slam and Jam teams.
But Lebron James coming to southern California with two teenage boys.
(28:16):
It feels like that's gonna forever change the dynamic of
AU basketball. Am I over selling it? No? I completely
I completely agree. I believe that we've got a taste
of it with the Ball family. You know, I had
never in the thirty years of covering this from when
I started doing with Tracy Murray and the following that
he had all the way through you know, these last
(28:37):
thirty years, and I've never seen anything like the Ball situation.
You know, going to gyms, it was a circus. And
then what happened last night, you know with Lebron coming
in the gym, and I would figure, like, you know,
have some hind sign the fact that Okay, here comes
Lebron Junior. We have social media. The gym was packed
and they had it in the small auxiliary jam and
(28:58):
I guess of some band came in started ripping Lebron
and it just turned into like a mini melee and
then they canceled the game. And it's like, what are
they going to do in the future here, you know,
like if he decides to go to Sierra Canyon Brentwood
High School, you know, I'm really intrigued to see, you know,
from a safety standpoint, you know, what is going to
(29:21):
happen with something California and for that matter, it's it's
fascinating because there's a lot of parts of Lebron which
are really interesting. He's done things, he's cleared his own path,
most of which I like, some of I don't. You can.
It's inarguable though that in terms of being an involved parent,
especially in comparison to you know, Larry Bird never had
a young boy in au Michael Jordan had two kids,
(29:43):
but he was we don't remember him ever kind of
being around. I called a couple of their high school
games and he was he was never around. Like he's
actually an involved parent. He actually uh, you know, he
knows the other kids names. He interacts with the team occasionally,
he helps coach like it is something. And but my
thing is, not only do you have that, but then
you have the hey, how are you going to keep
(30:03):
a kid on your team? If Brawnie says, hey, Dad,
I want him on my team, they decided they want to,
and Lebron James picks the phone says, hey do you
want to play with my son? I know. Yeah, by
the way, you're gonna get all the Lebron gear you want. Like,
no one's gonna say no to that, are they? Oh? No,
I would think not. I mean him coming to l
A is going to completely you know. I mean we
(30:24):
could see another level of I mean, we're gonna see
something different than the balls here. But yeah, I mean,
you know the way kids transfer nowadays, it's ridiculous. You know,
like c IF said something like sixteen thousand kids transferred.
That was even last year Focal Sports. But now with
Broun coming in and you know how he manages his
(30:46):
own NBA teams, Yeah, you could see him. You could
see you could start creating these, you know, all Star
au teams and wherever school his son ends up at,
you know where, We're gonna be pulling kids from everywhere. Maybe. Yeah.
You may mentioned all the transfers in the CIF, and
I know this happens everywhere. As a national podcast, I
think people are sitting there not on their heads and saying, yeah,
(31:08):
we have lots of problems with kids. Uh, it's kind
of on steroids here in southern California. Do you think
the player movement in the NBA is the cause of
the player movement in a U in high school basketball,
or do you think it's the other way around where
kids are always moving around a U in high school
and now they become pros and now so they don't
get they don't get as tied to a place or
(31:28):
two a team as they used to which which which
is the which is the chicken and which is the egg? Um,
I would say the ladder. I would think since these
kids now um are playing against each other and they
all know each other now, then's probably what he's mad
quell or teams where they're playing in these national based tournaments,
they're becoming friends and they keep these connections going. They're
(31:52):
never in college enough to create rivalries, so they just
go from this AUTH team conking for the n b
A and they like of Levon forming his team in
Miami and that, and it's just escalated from there. And
so I just I really believe it started with with
club basketball at a basketball wherever you want to call it.
With these guys that have become known that you know,
(32:13):
they've known each other for so long and they become
friends and they developed these friendships. And now you have
throughout the media and it's created a perfect storm. What's
your sense of what's going to happen. I know that
many people in your professional and you, I think you
tweeted out something which is great, which is like, hey,
the new rules potentially could still have the tournaments, just
(32:33):
the coaches wouldn't be allowed the tournaments, which would be
great for you as a professional evaluator that people respect
for more than thirty years. Like, just because coach K
can't sit there and have his assistance bird dog a kid,
doesn't mean that you can't evaluate him. Um. What's your
any guests as to what what the rules end up
being for the future of the July recruiting period. Um?
(32:55):
What I can see somebody mention that, let's say the
biggest one, the piece that would move to August or something.
I said, well, that would be impossible for my take
because so many schools now, including in southern California, first
starting school in August. So I could see a lot
of these tournaments moving to June while the instance away
has their camps whatever in Joly and have for you know,
(33:18):
evaluator like me or the best of both work and
this is all that June and then it's a lie
and I felt the number one thing for me that
I've had it with um, you know, restricting coaches from
coming out, I feel, for me is the most important month.
I would rather watch you can't play for me personally
with his high school team, see how he leads, see
how he carries his team. You know, I feel like
(33:40):
that's I think I can get a greater sense of
who this kid is rather than seeing, you know, the
multiple club games you see in jo Lie. Yeah, you
bring up a great point. You know, my brothers, you know,
is recruited at all the different levels, mostly in California,
and then of course O'Regan state for the last four years.
And I don't I actually think they're working the opposite
way of the of the way they should. You should
(34:00):
have assistance that are allowed to go out as often
as they want, right, just go out. And and if
your job is to evaluate and recruited kid, why are
we putting limits on it. I mean the fact is
that I understand, like my dad used to tell us
stories of of him, you know, sleeping over at a
kid's house that they were trying and sitting on, sitting
on a kid that they have Like, Okay, that's a
little bit overboard, but it's like limiting texts. It's like
(34:23):
when you couldn't text a kid. Like, look, if a
kid doesn't want doesn't want you to text him, he'll
just block you or he'll just delete it. If a
kid does, if he gets creeped out by a guy
keep coming to his game, he'll just you'll end up
wearing the kid out and he'll it'll turn him off.
I just let us let recruiting assistance do their job.
You want to restrict head coaches so they're on campus
(34:43):
more if you want to make sure that there's always
a coach on campus, like, that's fine, but this idea
that somehow you're protecting assistant coaches. All right, maybe August
is dark, nobody can see, anybody knows. But outside of that,
isn't it fair to say, like, hey, just let him recruit,
don't pay your players, don't change their grades, and kind
of the rest. Uh just almost a free market sort
(35:05):
of recruiting system. Yeah, I agree with that too, and
the fact that I believe it that we implement some
system like that will cut back on the multiple you know,
the ridiculous numbers are seeing in kids that are going
to schools, they're being overrecruited, and they end up bouncing
back to various other schools, you know, through a lower
level because in hindsight, these coaches don't have a great feel,
(35:28):
you know, for who they're recruiting. I mean, they're getting
such a limited time. There's some games going on until
Joel am I crazy. But I've always thought, you know,
we talked about transfers and the reason that players transfer.
We always believe it's because the kid wants more, the
parent wants more, and and that's some of it. But
but a good portion of it is the coach doesn't
(35:49):
exactly know what he's getting and the player doesn't exactly
have a great feel of what he's getting into because
they're because we're limiting the relationship and the length and
the quality of the relationship between who's recruiting and who's
being recruited. Is that is that a fair? Like? I know,
that's that's absolutely fair. And the thing is, when I
talked at two kids at camps, I say, hey, you,
(36:11):
I think what they missed a point and I think
you get caught up in the highest level and it's
like you need to find the best bit for your kid.
That's the bottom line. And here's the kid that's getting recruited.
Let's say at l M you Pepperdine or whatever. And
then he goes off in one game and washing and
the picture, Well, I'm going to go to Washington now,
(36:34):
you know, instead of saying no way, the Pepperdine system
fits me better, it's you know, as that's the kind
of situation that get fallen into. All right. Uh, you've
seen a lot of kids for a lot of years.
Give me the most the kid you've seen this uh
this spring and summer, that's most impressive to you? Most
impressive player. Um, I probably have to go up west. Um,
(36:56):
here's a guy that it's Evan Mobley. His older brother
isam always going to USC the US. He hired the
dad recently in the spring. Evan mobile for me. Um,
he's a kid. He's basically a combination. I'm not saying
he's the next Durant or Garnett type, but he's kind
(37:16):
of a combination of the two in terms of he's
got perimeitive skills. He's got I saw Kevin Ronnett in
high school. He's as quick off the floor, he's got
in between game, he's got He's got the whole package.
This is going to be a matter of strength in
terms of him going forward. But I would be stocked.
He's not NBA player down the road. Two or three
(37:38):
years ago. Cashi Stanley was that young player coming up
into high school basketball that everyone was talking about. He's
still very very well regarded, but but but not nearly
at the level that he was previously. You know, he's
top twenty to top thirty, maybe top forty nationally. Uh
what what type of impact do you think Cashi Stanley
who is at Siah Cannon, which one of the schools,
(37:59):
the big private schools in southern California. He was originally
a Harvard West like anyway that we were talking about
earlier for people were out of the area. What what
happened to Kasha Stanley and what type of impact do
you think will have when he ultimately plays in college? Well,
I mean, for me, cash of Stanley is in the
half um. I think when you see him in the
club situation, in a wide open game, he's an NBA athlete,
(38:23):
There's no question about that. But for me, you know,
for someone that was doing a long time, and I'm
sure you would get the same feel for him if
you watch them actually in the game. He has improved,
but there's not something he could probly depend on in
a game when it slows down. His jump shot is
still needs to get more consistent. Is decreason making you know,
as a pinching all of these to be a point
(38:44):
guard because everybody needs to be a point guard now
And I'm sorry you played the position. It takes a
certain feel for the game, could be that to play
that player. And so I think now if someone just
allowing him to be a two guard and work on
that skill set, then I think he could be a
very good college player. And I'm probably a pro. But
right now, for me, he's got some areas he really
(39:06):
needs to grow in. It's it's going to be fascinating
to see if he does go because it was it
was a little bit too much, uh too soon. There's
a big guy in southern California. I would I would
love to have your opinion on kid named Carl Lewis
at Linwood High School. Six put up some big numbers
this year, but you know, like, look, we're in the
age of the big man that doesn't score at the
(39:28):
low block. We're in the age of you've got to
be a roller and a finisher at the rim and
a rim protector or a stretch five. What's the prospects
like for a kid like Carl Lewis who is a
rising jr. UM. What you know, Carl Lewis, he has
some stuff off the court that needs to be taken
care of. Um, He's he's got a long way to
(39:51):
go in terms of becoming a bassal player. Yes, he's
built like Karl Malone and but in terms of you know,
skill fundamental, Um, he hasn't spent a lot of time.
You know, he's done a lot of the stuff going
on to put it bluntly and put it violay. In
fact that I don't think he's really had a lot
of time to work on those aspects of the game.
(40:12):
So for me, massively rated. He's one of these guys
that you know, played at lin Win High School, didn't
play against you know, the greatest competition in terms episode,
there was no one that could handle him. But so
there's certain areas in his game that he really needs
UH to take care of, as well as some other
aspects of his wife come together before if he's able
to play college. In my opinion. That's great, great feedback
(40:35):
from Joel Francisco has been doing this over thirty years.
Is a great job in southern California. Follow him on Twitter.
You got to prep hoops. You got to prep hoops
dot com. Uh. Last thing I want to ask you
about Kawhi Leonard because he look, he was Gatorade Player
of the Year, but he played MLK and out in Riverside.
He was a six five six six postman who has become,
you know, a top five by many people's accounts, third
(40:57):
best player in the NBA. And because he's super super quiet,
we don't know what to make of him. What's what's
your assessment as a guy who saw him at his
his infancy as a player, grow into a star at
San Diego State, a superstar in the NBA, and now
trying to, we think, manipulate his way back to Los Angeles.
(41:18):
What's your assessment of kind of the situation, how he's
handled and what the ultimate end game is. Um You know,
watching Kauai in high school, you don't to be honestly,
I never thought he reached the level that he's at
right now. I thought he's I thought he was a
high major recruit, you know, top fifty national propects of
Urk's length, he's got the biggest hands. But you know something,
(41:42):
He's always been a no nonsense player, no emotion and
just go out there and I'm gonna be productive and
do my job at both ends of the floor. However,
this year was the story that I've heard. I become skeptical,
you know about Okay, we're in factive and I don't
want to know character. You know, character assassinates this guy.
But I heard he was able to play and he
(42:04):
chose not to play, and so that for me, that
brings up red flags with direction, Um he's handling his
situations now, because this is not the same kid that
I talked to in high school. And you know, got
to know true that a you see and all that stuff.
So I'm kind of curious to see, really intrigued to
see how he does in the Toronto this year and
really watch his approach to the game. And because we
(42:26):
all know what he can do on the basketball court,
I mean, arguably what the best maybe best the way
player in the game today. So I'm very intrigued to
see what he goes this year at Toronto. What about it?
What about Dorozen, like, I do feel like de Rosen somehow,
And he was bad in in the playoff series against
UM against Lebron Javelers, he just he wasn't good. He
(42:47):
was fantastic in their and their first round series, fantastic.
I saw him at the Garden. This is two years ago,
Drop thirty nine the Garden. I was like, damn, Demard Rosen.
It is a but he is the closest. He's got
a Kobe style of offensive games. Um, it's just you know,
now there's so much the three point shot is so
much more important. How do you think his personality will
mesh with Gregg Popovich? Well, it's gonna be um. Um.
(43:11):
To be honest with you, I'm excited for him, you know,
um being in that system because I kind of like
in a way Kauai where he's quiet. He's not you know,
he's not real that assertive personality out there, but he
just goes about his business, takes care of it. So
really I treat to see how he fits in the
pop system. Um. I think he's going to become you know,
(43:31):
it's continued to be his efficient self. But like you said,
the key to hist game there is which it really
has become as his three point shot, and he's been
very good in the mid range area that you're like,
he said, as the mid range shot, is it usable
as it was you know, ten fifteen years ago. So
I'm really impreued to see how he takes in the
pop system. I think he's gonna be fine because I
think he's a good kid, and I think he wants
(43:52):
to you know, wants to be taught, and I think
it's uh, I think it's gonna be turned out to
be a good situation for I do too. It's weird
though that LaMarcus Aldrich is a midpost in the low
post kind of turnaround jump shots score and then you
got Demark Rosen was great in the mid range. Like
that goes counter to everything in two eighteen that the
spirits are kind of ahead of the curve on but
that's what they're gonna have to live with. So it'd
be will be fasting to see and then you know,
(44:13):
it's it's it's interesting, you know, I think about Tracy
Murray and and the volume of threes he shot when
you first started this business and what he would be now,
how valuable weapon now he would have to guard better
than he did then now in order to stay on
the floor. But it is, it's amazing how even when
I came up in the mid nineties, we used to
(44:33):
criticize big guys, stop shooting jump shots and get inside
and scored the low block right and everyone, and we did,
and and point guards were told you stop, don't you
pull up threes, get into that mid range pull up game.
And now, of course that's disappeared because of analytics and
the realization that it's smarter to play the other way.
It's gotta be fast for you to have to evaluate
guys in the in the ever evolving game of basketball.
(44:56):
Oh yeah, I mean it was really interesting. You know,
you know stagna Us Uh, you know who he is. Uh.
It terms to be running all these camps. He's one
of the eight you grewers out for a lot last
thirty years. He had a Pengos All American camps and
in June and there was a plethora of guys in
the six eight, six nine range. And these guys are
pulling up and and jack and threes and their shot
(45:17):
looks good. It's almost like you know, with Lebron, I
saw Lebron Uh freshman software in high school, and he
just knew he was different. He was kind of a
little bit of Magic, a little bit of Michael and
you know, built like a calling, but he wasn't built
like carmalone until now. But when you watch Kevin Durant,
I see these these these kids are seeing these types
of stars and they're implementing those schools for those skills
(45:39):
early on in their game. And now we're just seeing
this game trunch transformed into this you know, free and
D But you know something that on old school. Um,
I like to point how he still passed to facilitates
like you did in high school. And I'm still I'm
gonna still the big guy getting to get your button posts,
you know, be a rin protector, you know, filled the lane,
and I saw I'm still sand of the bold range game.
(46:01):
I think that's key for me. That's gonna be key
for Alonso. You know, Alonzo struggled in the paint area
and if he can just implement that and get back
going and get stronger, his game is going to go
to in a level and I think that will bring
out his shots better too in the marketsistant manner. So
I mean, I think the mid range game. And I
still think guys could still play in the back, you know,
with the basket BA baskets something too. Maybe I'm to
(46:24):
go old school. No, I don't, I don't know. I
honestly don't think you're wrong. I mean, look at look
at the NBA Finals, look at or look at look
at the Golden State Warriors, Like, look, do they shoot
a ton of three? Is absolutely when they needed a bucket,
they got to ball to Kevin Durant either in the
post or A lot of people love mid range jump shots,
you know, like if if if the best of the
best can make seventy percent of those, then you still
take it. And I do think that I think the
(46:45):
Lebron's done or what he's had to do. You know,
he's been more effective when he's had his back to
the basket and he can pass. You know, that's where
do you think about the Olympics teams that's for ski
Lebron at the high post and the facilitates, you know,
using his passing acumen. So I mean, I I know
I feel still well, look, I'm fascinated. I mean basketball,
(47:07):
It's not that basketball has lacked energy in the West Coast,
but with the Lakers potentially being good. Um and with
you know, Lebron and his son bringing attention to AU basketball.
There's been a ton of talent here obviously with the
private schools out there recruiting. I think now it will
be hyped up and it'll be great for your job,
be great for us as well. Joel Francisco falm on
Twitter at Joel fran Hoops, go to prep hoops dot com.
(47:29):
He's been a basketball scout for over thirty years. He's
the SoCal UH scouting coordinator for ESPN. He does an
amazing job. Joel, thanks so much for joining us here
on the All Ball Podcast. Appreciate it. Appreciate it a lot,
have a good one. There's just kind of a sense
of that's what July is about. I mentioned Kaui earlier.
(47:51):
He's not participating, he's not playing, and he's saying, well,
I need to transition to Toronto, and I just look,
I think to no did well in the trade I do.
I mean, if you substitute out to Mard Rosen, who
I like more than other people like, but you put
Kawhi Leonard in there and they got legit shot. Make
one last push in the East if not, scrap it
(48:12):
start again. Um, but what's you know, Greg Popovitch has
done nothing but take the high road. It's not like
they're gonna grind you into the ground when you're playing
in Vegas, you haven't played all year. I kind of
feel like he needs that. Um. But Kawhi Leonard is
he's beating to his own drum. And for a guy
(48:33):
who has earned, not been given, earned so much respect
in NBA circles for playing both ends, steadily improving his
jump shot, which was he was not a guard, he
was a center coming up, and the big questions were, um,
could he ever, you know, be a decent three point shooter?
And he's become a very good and a good ball handler.
(48:55):
He's just he's undone some of the great things, some
of the some of the respect that he's gained, it's
easy to get. It's not hard to gain it back.
You get on the floor, you start playing for for Toronto,
you play the right way, even if you want to
make your way to the Lakers next year. But I
just want I'm okay with guys not playing for Pop
who played the whole year, you know, and or played
(49:16):
for USA Basketball in the past, but when you're one
of the best players in the game, you want to
play nine games this year and you should be fully healthy.
You pass the physical, go and play, go and play,
be the try and take the high road the way
Greg pop Fitch has taken the high road. I don't
think that's a great look. Um. Last thing in regards
to the NBA, you saw this with Carmelo Anthony who said,
you know, basically it was a bad fit in Oklahma
(49:36):
City because he didn't have enough time. All he had
was training camp in the season. Like what more do
you need more than training camp in the season? How
much more time? Like is there some boardroom? Yeah, it
was there, hoodie mellow workouts that could have that you
could have transitioned better to Oklahoma City. I'm I respect
Carmelo Anthony because he was the best three level score
(49:57):
in the NBA for a good seven or eight years.
He was an amazing offensive player, but he didn't keep
himself consistently good enough shape. He wasn't a good teammate.
And more than anything, you know, as you mature, as
you get to be an adult. I've said this, there's
three things that adults do that kids don't do adults
never turned down a nap all right, adults will order
(50:18):
vegetables an adults point in when something goes wrong, they say,
my bad, I made a mistake. Carmelo Anthony has never said,
you know, look that didn't work in Oklahoma City and
it's my fault. I didn't buy in defensively. I struggle
to buy it offensively. You know, I wasn't willing to
come off the bench. That's my bad, even if even
if it it wasn't all his fault. Taking more blame
(50:41):
then you should is the smarter path than the more
mature path. But we've created he's becoming like an Allen
Iverson where his his NBA career maybe over sooner than
it should because of his inability to find a Carmelo
Anthony two point oh. And then as far as the
Kevin Durant tweets with CJ. McCollum, we talked about a
little bit earlier. Um, Kevin Durant has uh. He was
(51:05):
quote earlier today as saying, let me pull up this quote,
kind of a fascinating quote from from Kevin Durant. He
he said, here's the quote. Uh to Anthony Slader, I
know you think I'm sensitive, but I'm but just somebody
who's tired of holding ship in So apparently Kevin Durant
(51:25):
he's mad as hell and he's not taken anymore. And
now when people talk trash to him, he's just gonna
let it, let it, which is great, like we want
dudes with no filter. Uh. The problem is a lot
of the things he's saying are going counter to either
one thinks he's done in the past and to the
way he's handled himself like he did have a he
did have burner accounts in which he defended himself. In
the past. He did he was the guy who said, oh,
(51:47):
everybody wants go to Nixon the Lakers. He didn't agree
with that in the past, and now he goes to
the Warriors, and it's it's really interesting, some guys. The
social media thing, people don't react to your twee. It's
the way that you think when you press send. You
may think you're joking. You may even do hashtag sarcasm,
and it doesn't I'm as guilty of that as anybody.
(52:08):
But the Kevin Durant thing is fascinating. He's kind of
finding his way as he goes. Meanwhile, he's a two
time NBA Finals m v P. Who's fighting with other
NBA players or just random dudes on Twitter. Is one
of the most NBA two thousand eighteen things I've ever
heard of. It's bizarre. It's bizarre. All right, we'll talk more.
NBA will wrap up the July recruiting period. Also talk
(52:31):
some USA basketball next week on the All Ball Podcast.
Thanks so much for listening. Make sure you tell your friends, download, subscribe,
download and rate it. I'm Doug Gottlieb. Listen to the
radio show daily twelve to three Pacific time, three to
six Eastern time. This is all by
Host
Doug Gottlieb
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.