August 12, 2018 • 39 mins
Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2. All Ball with Doug Gottlieb is part of the Colin Cowherd Podcast Network. All Ball is an unfiltered podcast covering the biggest stories in college basketball and the NBA. Join Doug as he brings his unique perspective as an TV analyst and radio host. In this episode, Doug talks about the NBA schedule dropping along with latest NCAA rules, and is joined by this week's special guest, Aaron Torres. Follow Doug on twitter at @GottliebShow and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and you are listening
to All Ball, All Basketball podcast all the time. Last
week a little bit different, we had Chris Beard on
the Texas Tech head coach kind of telling us the story,
taking us to the progression of his career. And he's
a great storyteller. We're gonna get back to more storytelling
next week. Uh. This week, I think there are two
(00:27):
big things to talk about. The first is the NBA
schedule dropping. And it's always interesting to me on how
um we seem. Sometimes you can be in denial over
over different things, like you know, you can be in
denial over uh, my Duke is on national TV in
college basketball so much, or or maybe not just Duke,
but Duke Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Syracuse. Um, those are the
(00:51):
schools that that rate. That's why they're on TV so much.
UM and so it's it's not it doesn't work the
other way around. It's not not the air on TV
so much. That's why they rate. They rate, That's why
they're on TV so much, period, end of the period
stop so UM. I do think that sometimes people people
question why are the Red Sox and Yankees always on
(01:13):
TV because they rate. That's it. There's there's no other
reason to it that that more people will watch. And
when you're in television and television program which I am
not okay, I'm on the production side, but the programming side,
the only thing they care about is what two teams
can we put on TV that get the most eyeballs.
(01:35):
That makes everybody more money. And so when you look
at the NBA schedule, it's fascinating to see the Lakers
schedule and maybe more than anything, how everyone else in
the league reacts. I went through it on my radio show,
The Doug Gotliep Show is daily three to six Eastern time,
UH twelve to three Pacific, Fox sport Trader dot Com,
I Heart Radio app series x m AD three for
(01:57):
the first two hours. You can also download the podcast daily.
I went through it and um, almost every team's website.
I went to wherever, almost every team's Twitter handle I
went to. I would say, here the Grizzlies, here's the
Memphis Grizzlies schedules, including two games with the Lakers. Find
(02:18):
out when Lebron James comes to town. Like Lebron James
is literally the biggest show on Earth. Now, Um, he
is in the Los Angeles. He is doing the Nike
Who the Labron James Nike Hoops Academy. He also had
his first couple of workouts at the Lakers practic facility.
But this is also a week to which week in
(02:39):
which excuse me, uh, it was announced he's got a
Netflix show, He's got an HBO show, a Showtime show,
a CBS show. There's other shows as well. And I
think the question for Lebron is not does he not
love basketball? I think I don't think that's close. I
think he loves basketball. I don't think I know he
(03:00):
loves basketball. But when you come to l A and
you have, you can have everything. I look at it
at lost as at l A As. Have you ever
been to a really nice restaurant. I'll give an example,
restaurant called the Peninsula. There's a Peninsula in New York,
in l A, in Chicago. I'm sure there's others, you know, worldwide.
It's very high enching. And a dear friend of mine,
(03:24):
whenever he has time and it wants to have breakfast,
invites me to breakfast at the Peninsula Hotel, which is
right across the street actually from the Beverly Hills Hilton.
So I may like like a block and a half
away from Beverly Hills Hilton centrally located not far from
the Fox lot Um. It's a cool spot and it's
kind of quiet, quaint, little outdoor area which some suns,
(03:46):
some shade. It's great. I had breakfast there earlier this week.
They actually have a buffet. But when you go to
a really good buffet, or even to go to bad
buffet um like can pair a we used to have
Western Sizzling and Oklahoma State or a Golden Corral or
a Sizzler, compare that buffet to a buffet at a
(04:10):
high end place. You go to a buffet at a
high end place, and they have a guy who makes
incredible omelets, right if somebody else will make you any
kind of juice. You don't just get coffee. You can
get cappuccino, You can get a latte, you can get
it with almond milk, with soy milk, you know, or
you can get regular coffee, any kind of tea you
ever wanted. And then you go through the actual buffet
(04:32):
and everything is magnificent. And what you end up doing
is sometimes is you get so much stuff because you're
used to you're trained to the whole. Like man, when
we were basketball players and we go to Las Vegas
and we'd stay at Circus Circus and we go through
the buffet. You're just trying to fill up with a
bunch stuff because the food wasn't that good, but you
just got a bunch, so you're really full and you'd
(04:53):
burned through it anyway, instead of just getting a great
piece of avocado toast and having a cappuccino where you
feel like you're full but not full. All right, you
feel really good and you really got to enjoy that
avocado toast with the poach egged on top, just so
instead you just had a smorgers board of stuff and
(05:15):
you eat and you like it, and it's fine, but
you don't really appreciate it, and it it loses its
it loses the quality that you're actually getting in a
place like the Peninsula Hotel or you know, on top
end restaurant. That's what Lebron James is running the risk
of here. Like Lebron's in l a and he can
(05:37):
do anything he wants. You know, he's got two houses,
he doesn't have to move. He's redoing his house. Kids
are going to be in private school, and there's lots
of time in the day. You know, you practice for
you work out for two two and a half hours
a day, right, you come in, you get your body
work done, you do your weight lifting, you do your
(05:57):
stre your training. You know you're stretching. Everything takes an hour.
Then you get an hour maybe on the court, maybe
a little bit longer, maybe a little bit less, depending
and in the off season, that's that's pretty good. You
don't need to do a ton. The most of those
guys don't do a ton more So, now you have
what do you have twenty hours left in your day?
(06:18):
You sleep six to eight hours a night, so tonight
you're working on um. Now you're working on fourteen hours
potentially left in your day, fourteen hours at most and
twelve hours maybe at least. You got twelve hours left.
And even if you go out to dinner and you've
(06:39):
got to lunch and you chew up an hour, that's
a ton of time. And even if you spend time
with your family, that's a ton of time. So it's
not like this is gonna these are gonna be time suckers.
To be a producer of a show on CBS. It's
a game show, to be a producer of of, you know,
a baller's type of show, to be a producer of
a documentary or the one that's gonna run where more
(07:00):
than an athlete, they they don't individually take up time.
But if you do end up having a full plate
and you lose track of that avocado toast which used
to be basketball. See he used to be in Cleveland,
which you just throw a bunch of things on the
plate because it makes everything tastes better. Now this is
all high end stuff and as much as you could
(07:21):
do a buffet, that's not the way to really enjoy
a meal. Sit down, take your time, enjoy a meal.
So I guess my only fear with Lebron is everybody
their whole life has said I want to do l
a and he has the power to do so. And
every website you go to, every Twitter handle you go to,
everyone in the NBA has fired up about the Lakers.
Already a draw with Lebron, a draw come to town.
(07:43):
Everyone the legal benefit from it. But what's fast, what's
gonna be fascinating to me is the pace in southern
California is so much faster than anywhere else I've ever been.
Maybe New York is the only other place, but l
A is the paces crazy past it. There are other
time suckers, not just your kids and your wife, but travel.
(08:07):
He's gonna live in Brentwood and this time at the
right time of day. What is it twenty minutes to
the facility the wrong time of day? It's an hour.
It's an hour. So I'll be faster to see though,
if there's just too many things on his plate in
year one because he's got a there's gotta be some
(08:28):
sort of meeting of the minds between his style and
Luke Walton style. There has to be an evident there.
What is it? Uh? I think it's like eleven of
the first fourteen games against playoff teams they have the second,
they travel the second most miles Portland's the most miles there,
the second the Clippers of the third. Part of that
is location based, but they're flying all over tim Buck two.
(08:48):
They're everybody's biggest game and he's got a lot on
his plate. So am I do? I think? Do I
totally agree with Charles Barkley with the idea that Lebron
has gotta moved on from trying to be a great
basketball player and is simply worried about being a mogul. No,
but do I think he wants to be a mogile?
I do. And the first year of making a transition
(09:09):
to southern California, I've done it twice, and not even
in l A. I'm in Orange County, which is much
slower than Los Angeles. It's fast, it's fast, and it
takes a while too. It takes a while to play
catch up. Now he's a megastar, And I guess you
could say this has been his entire professional life, has
been going from one town car to the next, you know,
(09:31):
and people pulling him in a million direction, different directions.
But I would tell you, and most people in Los
Angeles tell you, like, this place is different. The speed
is different, the amount of poll is different, and it
is a you have. You have a buffet to which
you can do. You can go hiking, you can go skiing,
you can go water skiing, you can go surfing, you
can hang at the beach. You can go to a
(09:52):
nice Hollywood dinner, you go to a Malibu dinner. You
can go out with family and go with friends, you
can go out with dignitaries, you can go out with celebrities.
You have all these things. This is the highest end
buffet you can find. But you might be smarter to
just have a piece of avocado toast and a really
good cup of coffee. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball.
(10:14):
The other part that's interesting to me with the Lakers,
a lot of people are calling out their roster rightfully,
so there are some pieces that are head scratchers. Um.
But I've explained in previous podcasts that this was not
a blank slate. It was not as easy as hey,
it's Lebron, let's go pick out some dream team of pieces.
(10:37):
Guys have to be free agents, so there has to
be able to be of a trade made. In this case,
you needed guys that were willing to sign a one
year deal because they want to keep themselves flexible for
next year's free agency bananza as well as maintaining all
these young players. Here's the part that no one's talking
about we'll talk about here is it's like the Duke
basketball effect, or let's just call it the Lebron effect.
(10:59):
As I told you, start, if you go to anybody's
Twitter handle. In the NBA, there will there will be
a mention of when the date when Lebron comes to town.
Because it's everybody's biggest game. It's Alabama football, Kentucky Duke basketball,
it's everybody's biggest game. And for all those Lakers, the
young ones that we all think can be good players,
(11:19):
from Brandon Ingram to Kyle Kuzman to a Josh Hard
to Alonzo Ball, how do those guys play in one,
real NBA games that matter in two in real NBA
games that matter against teams that are loaded for bear
in the past, the past couple of years. It's it's
not that people, It's not like the guys went out
drinking the night before the Lakers came to town. But
it's closer to the truth than they were getting in
(11:40):
bed with their milk and cookies. Know whing Lebron's coming
to town. You're not just playing on a team that's
capable of making the playoffs in a much more talented
conference than the Eastern Conference. You're doing so with Lebron James,
who is everyone's biggest game, and how the young Lakers
just to that is as interesting as anything else things
(12:02):
you can get away within any NBA game. You can't
get away within the big games. And as it's shaping up,
most every game early on the season is going to
be a big game for the young Lakers because they're
not only trying to prove to Lebron and to the
staff that they can play at a high level. They
gotta prove themselves. And when you don't see immediate success,
(12:24):
and they may not because it's their first year together,
when you don't seek occasional success, there is at least
the possibility that you lose your that you lose your
your mojo. Um, you lose your confidence, which is kind
of your mojo. You lose your confidence, and you lose
your confidence around Lebron James. He won't believe in you,
(12:45):
he won't give you the ball, they won't play it.
It's gonna be a really interesting to see how this
Laker thing works out. All right, then, let's get into
the changes in college basketball. Aaron Torres will be our guest.
Let's work for Fox Sports, written for The Athletic as
well as other sites. Um, I'm fascinated by the amount
of immediate negativity. It's like you didn't even read through
(13:08):
all the world change. Like now, they still don't get
it because Condoleeza Rice was on the was on the
the commission board. All right. I didn't think that the
Condoleeza Rice thing made sense. I would have liked more
a you guys, but hey, at the end of the day,
if what comes out of it is they tweaked the
recruiting schedule a little bit. They change where you're gonna
(13:29):
go see players some whatever. Guys can come back to
school even after they've been drafted. I like that. Um,
you can be wrapped by an agent while you're still
in school and he can meet with you legally and
buy your dinner and by your parents dinner and fly
them up and give them travel just to have that dinner. Like,
(13:50):
the idea is to cut out agents that are of
ill repute. That's the idea that the legal certified agents
can act like legal certified as Do I think this
makes sense? And yes? Do I think it fixes every problem? No?
Does it create new problems? I can't say so as
of yet. And I also don't love that everybody's operating
(14:13):
on an assumption that the NBA is gonna lower the
age limit and let guys come straight out of high school.
I wasn't a good idea, then it's not a good
idea now. But that's what's assumed, and that's why they
created this a. If you have an elite player's status,
then you could have an agent in high school. What's
an elite player? We don't know. We're not handling it.
Let's pass it off to USA Basketball. Not a strong look,
(14:34):
but I think you understand there. My point is the
the n c A couldn't not do anything, but any
sort of massive wholesale change changes too much. So a
slow push towards a different sort of summer camp look,
a slow push towards a different sort of way of
(14:56):
viewing athletes, and how we cut out the shady middleman.
And meanwhile, a relative change in the transfer rule, which
I don't like but does create player movement. Also, there's
the players can come back and they must be on
full scholarship, but only if they stay two years in college.
I like that. The idea of encouraging guys to stay
(15:17):
in school more or welcome them back even when they
try and go out and get a job in the
NBA are all good things. As far as the spring
and summer calendar, I don't love it. I don't know
why there is a need for regulation. I think you
just do one open month, you know. And I think
assistant coaches can be on the road all year. That's
(15:37):
what their job is, go out whenever. You know, if
you're around a kid too much, the kid's gonna get
creeped out by anyway. But this is the path they've
chosen to go by. And I can't think of anyone
rule which is so terrible, so awful, that it's going
to completely change the sport. I do think that takes
place if guys come straight at a high school and
(15:59):
go to the pros. The reason is all of these
basketball coaches, all these executives and in in at the
n c A, who will tell you, hey, listen, in
the college baseball model. You know what happens. If you
have the college baseball model and basketball, you have college baseball,
fun sport, grade sport, well coached, completely irrelevant in the
(16:20):
National Sports Lanksbill, let's welcome to Aaron Torres, who um
my colleague at Fox Sports Radio. Check out his radio
show eight to ten Pacific time Saturday nights on Fox
Sports Radio. You can also read his work in the
athletic fall on Twitter at Aaron, I think it's Aaron
underscore Torres at Aaron Underscore Torres, a college football college
(16:44):
basketball writer, wrote something called up one and fun just
does a really good job. Plus he loves to cover
the recruiting scene. And Aaron, I'm wondering your initial reaction
when you saw what the n c A has decided
to do with some of their new rules. Yeah, I
think you know, Doug, My reaction was, frankly, very similar
to I think everybody else here. It's the middle of
(17:05):
the week, middle of the day. Everybody's running around. You
see these big bold headlines. Players can now have agents,
Undrafted players can return to college, and you think, oh
my god, this is a landmark day. Everything has changed.
Everything we knew no longer exists. And then you read
the fine friend and you see that some of the
rules really, frankly aren't all that they are kind of
(17:25):
made out to be in that big headline. Uh, you know, look,
I do think there was some some important change as
far as the recruiting calendar. I know that not everybody
in college basketball is necessarily happy with it, and a
lot of change, you know, an important change was made
as far as kind of the enforcement process at the
n c A level, as far as, uh, the way
(17:46):
that investigations are going to be done and what kind
of information can be used. So it was an interesting
day Wednesday. But I think I speak for a lot
of people who cover college basketball when I say that
the initial headlines certainly didn't live up to what you
expected once you dug into him a little bit. You know,
it's funny you mentioned the enforcement. They're outsourcing their enforcement, right,
(18:07):
which is which is a great idea. Like of all
the things people have crushed them for, the fact that
they have a handed enforcement is something that leaves you
open um open to criticism. I mean, look what's happened
with the NFL with Roger Goodell being judge jury executioner, right,
and if you appeal, you you appeal to Roger Goodell.
Like somehow this has gotten lost that people haven't pointed out.
(18:28):
Even Mike de course you wrote a nice article. He
didn't even point out that they are outsourcing most of
the enforcement procedure and most of and some of the
investigation part of enforcement. I think it's a really good thing,
don't do you Yeah, I do. And you know, look
at the end of the day, I think what what
people have to remember is that all of these rules,
whether you like him, whether you don't like them, whether
(18:49):
you agree with the n c A, whether you don't,
they were all put in place because the n c
A felt like there were things that they needed to
get under control. Uh, after everything that came out with
the FBI process that you know last fall, and so
say what you want about the other stuff. This is
a direct reflection of what happened with the FBI, where
(19:11):
you have all of these schools in all of this trouble.
But it's frankly stuff that the n c A in
the past, as of previous to Wednesday, they couldn't punish
the school for us. So if you have an FBI
wire cap or you have a you know, an FBI
information that nobody else has access to, there's no way
that the n c A is going to be able
(19:31):
to get access to that information. And as of a
week ago, we were asking can Arizona really be punished?
Can usc really be punished? What about Louville with Brian Bowen. Well,
now all of that information is usable under the new
n c A jurisdictions, So will it curb cheating. I mean,
I think all of us that cover the sport know
(19:51):
that if a guy wants to bend the rules or
break the rules, he's gonna do it. But in theory, um,
you know, it makes it a little bit harder. It
makes it a little bit easier for the n c
A to actually hand down punishment if you are caught.
And oh, by the way, some of the new um
you know, the new verbiage and in the n c
A handbook about what can be punishable and how long
(20:13):
the punishment can be has changed as well. So I
think from that perspective, and I agree with you, Doug,
I think it's gotten a lot lost in the shuffle.
Is this idea that that the punishment process has changed.
And again, this is a reflection of what happened with
the FBI, And in theory it should go it. In theory,
it uh. In theory, it should help Aaron Torres joining us. Okay,
(20:34):
what about there is this growing assumption that the NBA
is gonna change back to allowing players to go to
the NBA Draft straight out of high school. That that's
the big thing that I think people are are misreading
or not reading the fine print is the the elite
prospect thing through people for a loop. What's an elite prospect?
You know, that's to be determined, Um, but it's if
(20:57):
you read it, it's like, hey, look, if in when
the NBA goes back to you can come straight out
of high school, then the elite prospects can be represented
by an agent, and then if you decide to go
to college, well then you have to cease to have
a relationship or a working relationship with with that agent. Um.
What's your level of belief that they are in fact
(21:20):
gonna do away with the one and done. Yeah's something
you and I talked about a little bit earlier today, Doug. Um.
You know, look, it seems like if you read the
tea leaves, and I think only really Adam Silver and
his closest confidence really have a great idea of what
their plan is. But it seems like they keep moving
this thing back. I mean, when when Adam Silver says
(21:41):
there's growing sentiment that we want to change it, everyone thinks,
oh my god, maybe it will be in effect as
early as next year, twenty nineteen. Then you hear the
earliest it would be as earlier this week, when all
this stuff comes out. John Calipari says, Hey, I've been
hearing it won't happen until two and I you know,
I think I know where you stand on as Doug.
But I think the reality is, while Adam Silver wants
(22:04):
to win kind of the pr war, as far as
letting kids get to this league as early as they
can make as much money as they can, I think
that the people on the ground, the people with boots
on the ground at the NBA level, the scouts, the
front office execs, I think they don't want they I
don't think they're interested in evaluating high school kids going
to a gym where maybe there's only one guy on
(22:26):
the court that not only has a professional future, but
it has a college future. I don't think they want that.
I think they want that extra year where a kid
has to go to college, has to compete against older competition,
has to compete against players his own age, his own
skill set, his own strength, all of that stuff. And
maybe I'm crazy, but but from everything I hear, and
(22:48):
I'm sure it's probably much the same for you, I
don't think most people in the NBA are really in
a in a rush to change this rule. The way
that I think maybe the general public thinks that they
might be. Yeah, I've I've always thought that Adam Silver
is a little bit overreactive to to Twitter narrative right,
Twitter set right, Whereas like, look, the G League is
getting better, it's an option for players straight out of
(23:11):
high school, but the best option still remains go to
one of these historic programs. I even like what the
n see I did. Obviously, I think the best, the best,
the thing that everybody likes, but we don't have. Maybe
the best foresight and how it's gonna work out is
that you can go to you know, declare for if
you go through the process correctly, declare for the draft,
don't get drafted, you can come back to school. Like
I like that. Um, I would also point out I
(23:33):
really like that. It's kind of always been a rule,
but now it's kind of set in. Hey, if you
stay for two years, anytime you come back, if you
go to the pros, anytime you come back, you're automatically
on full scholarship. Like I think that is awesome, like
creating more creating a reason to hang around and a
way to come back even when you thought you weren't
going to come back, Like I think all that stuff
(23:54):
is good. Now we do realize that guys that declare
for the draft, coach thinks he's gone, he recruits another player,
you got their team scholarships. What happens if you're over
the limit? What happens to the players who? I mean? Like, look,
if you decided to come back, is that player who's
gonna play your position? He is he gonna leave like that.
It's a little bit trickier than people think. But I do, actually,
I do actually like that stuff. I just I don't
(24:15):
really understand this push for the nun and done. I
read Steve Kerr's article when he was working for Turner,
and he was saying, hey, we need more time in college.
It gives us a great because because they're they're they're
more mature, they've had to answer to somebody, They've had
to be around a team. This is a man's world.
It's a professional, it's a job. They need some time
(24:35):
away from however they grew up to grow up on
their own before they become a pro. I agree with that,
but it feels like Adam Silver is going along with
his Twitter narrative. No, I totally agree. I totally agree,
and I think that there's so much value to college. Um.
And it's it's on the court, it's off the court, um,
(24:55):
even if we're talking strictly from a basketball perspective. First
of all, by the way, every single guy that has
been forced to go to college kind of quote unquote forced,
I'm using quotation marks has talked about how beneficial it was.
Look Kevin Durant, for whatever, he has become the social
media pariah that he's become over the last year or two.
Like I've heard him say, that year at Texas changed
(25:17):
me as a person. I'm more mature. I you know,
I entered the league, you know, with the more open mind.
I had met people of Texas. I had interacted with
people of Texas that I would have never interacted with
if I hadn't spent that one year in college. It
made me a better person. I've heard Anthony Davis say
the same. But then you also look at the om
the court stuff, and I actually think these coaches, for
(25:39):
all the criticism that they get, they do a pretty
good job of taking that eighteen year old kid out
of high school and prepackaging him and having them ready
for the NBA. For the NBA year later. Um, you know, look,
you've been in these facilities. I've been in these facilities.
I'm sure. Uh, you know a lot of media people
that are talking about this that feel the same way
is that you go to a u c. L A.
(26:00):
You go to in Arizona. They have a couple of
meals prepared for them every day. They're working with world
class strength and conditioning coaches. They are they are basically
it really is almost a junior NBA. And the way that, frankly,
even though being in the G League is professional, it's
not the same Riding a bus in odd in Utah
(26:21):
is not the same as flying charter from Durham, North
Carolina to wherever the heck duke is playing their next game.
And so I'm with you, and I think the thing
you bring up about Adam Silver replying to the Twitter narrative,
I totally agree. And I think we're seeing this because look,
you know, I can think back to when this FBI
thing happened. I can think back to when he went
(26:41):
on with our buddy Colin Calhood a year ago and
said that he was ready to make this change. Oh.
I watched the Ben Simmons documentary and these kids are
not This is this rule is not having the effect
that it was supposed to get. All of a sudden,
here we are one you know where where you removed
from the FBI stuff, and it seems like there keeps
being this push to move it back, move it back,
(27:02):
move it back. And I think it's a reflection of
like I said, the people that actually have to make
these decisions, the people whose jobs are on the line
as GMS coaches, front office people. They don't want to
be dropping a seventeen year old on high school, even
if it's only one year Duke or Arizona in North Carolina.
There really is a benefit to it in the evaluation process,
no question, Yeah, no question. I mean, um, you and
(27:23):
I have talked and you brought up treyvon Duval where
where you know, if you go back to high school,
he's a he's probably a top pick. But now we
saw him for a year, we understand that in addition
to his inability to shoot, he didn't really run a
team or create shots for others the way that a
guy like that should. And he's gonna have to fight
his way here with the Bucks with a with a
two way, two way contract. He is technically a professional,
but not nearly what he would have been had he
(27:45):
not been exposed a bit of Duke for the most part,
though we helped. It helps build guys brands and they
gotta show up on time. They got to balance stuff
with school, which is like it's it's like real life,
only it's not, and provides him a great safe in it.
You and I, You and I completely agree on on
that one. Um. All right, one last thing before before
we bid, before we bid a d um the Duke
(28:11):
Incoming class, the Kentucky incoming class. Um. Comparing contrast the
two for people who haven't who don't understand, just these
are two loaded classes that I have to play right away.
Compare contrast the two. Yeah, it's weird because, Um, first
of all, I think the top of Duke's class is
unquestionably better. They have arguably the three best players in
(28:34):
this class. R J. Barrett, Kim Reddish and Zion Williamson.
Who's the player that everybody knows, whether you're a college
basketball fan, high school basketball fan, or not. But to
be perfectly honest, man, you know, I've seen all those
guys that are all kind of wings. None of them
really shoot the ball that well, and I'm really curious
as to how all of those guys work together. Unquestionably,
(28:55):
those three are probably the three most talented players coming
into come basketball this year. I really have doubts that
it's gonna work together even the same way that was
for you saying no, I was gonna say even with
even with was it Tyler Jones? Tyas Jones's brother as
a point guard? Doesn't that doesn't that help mitigate some
of those issues? It does? It does, But I you know,
(29:16):
I don't know. I just I think back and I
know I know what your argument would be is that
two years ago, when they had Grayson now and Luke
Kannard and Jayson Tatum, they didn't have that traditional point
guard like Track Jones. I get that argument. I just
don't know. It's just I don't want to do the
whole cliche one ball a bunch of guys thing. I
just don't know how it works Outlook, Coach k Has
(29:38):
and his recruiting pitch, I think, quite frankly, was hey,
look man, I had Lebron, Katie and Carmelo on the
same team at one point. We figured out a way
to make it work. Yeah, But I mean like, that's
that's that you had so much better play. Like, look,
I do think, well here, here's here's the thing. Like
I think. I think the Trade Jones thing makes it work.
It's it's interesting. So the Nike Basketball Academy has taken
place in Thousand Oaks. I talked to NBA assistant GM
(30:01):
last night and he's like, man, those college games were
so bad. And I was like, why do you think
they were so bad? And he's like, because there's no
point guard. It's like, you have no point guard, you
have all wings. It just it doesn't work. And I
was like, exactly, so what you're describing, which I I get.
You know, you got r J. Barrett, Cam Reddish and design,
but you know you put Zion at the four and
(30:22):
you put a real point guard out there, couldn't it
then work? It could? Yeah, I mean the problem is
that outside of R J. Barrett, none of them are
very good shooters either. So that to me is I
just I don't know if it could work. It could work.
But the other thing with Duke, they have no real depth,
They have no returning experience like last year with Grace
(30:45):
and Now and at least Grace Now and was a
fourth year guy this year. I mean four, you know,
four freshmen that are gonna be asked to carry that
load from day one. Look, you know, look, I think
it's going to be Duke is gonna be what they've
been the last couple of years, where I don't know
that I would pick them. I don't know that I
picked them over Virginia or North Carolina that both return
a bunch of players in the a c C in
(31:08):
the regular season, But when you get to the tournament
and you throw that ball up, you know, it's about
having to use a duck Gottli totermam. It's about having dudes,
you know, and they are gonna have dudes. So uh,
you know that is the gifts in the curse of
college basketball is that sometimes, uh, the regular season isn't
as important as we wanted to be. So look, if
you're telling me, would I be surprised if they win
the national championship next year? Absolutely not. I just think
(31:30):
it's one of those deals that that I do think
there's gonna be some speed bumps along the way, maybe
even more than people would expect with the recruiting class
like that. What about Kentucky's recru class. UH, different group
of guys. You know. The the cool thing about Kentucky
is they're playing these nationally televised games in the Bahamas
as we speak here, uh in the middle of August,
and you're getting a feel for for who those guys
(31:53):
are and what they're capable of. I don't think any
of them has the long term potential of of what
the Duke I do. I think the good thing for
Kentucky is they actually have some vets. I mean, look
re Travins Grant transfer from from Stanford fifth year senior
to time PAC twelve All Conference pick PJ. Washington. I
(32:13):
think he probably would have been drafted if he stayed
in the draft this past season. Um comes back as
a sophomore. Nick Richards looks unbelievable, which is something I
never thought i'd say. Um, But I don't think any
of the freshman are as good. I will say this, though,
I don't know how much you've got to watch the
first couple of games here, Doug. They got a kid,
Tyler Hero from Wisconsin. I mean I saw him like
three months ago at the Nike Hoops Summit. I didn't
(32:35):
think he was gonna be like this. He's been by
far the best players. I think it's gonna be interesting.
I think Kentucky's got more depth, more experience. But those
front end guys that Duke certainly are pretty darned and
hero remember what was gonna go to was going to
go to Wisconsin and change his mind and ends up
going to Kentucky. And and he is uh very athletic
uh and and he can look he can shoot and
(32:57):
score or something that they that they've missed. I will
be I'm intrigued to see, um, I'm intrigued to see
if he'll gardeny buddy, and I'm intrigued to see, like
if his shot selection is really good once they get
to real basketball games. But he does give, he does
give them. You know, a white kid was some swagger
that's absolutely completely unafraid. And he does appear to have
(33:18):
a much more refined perimeter game than some others and
something that Kentucky hasn't had in a couple of years.
And that actually at some point we'll get into this
once we get coach to college basketball season. I like
some of what Wisconsin brings back. Some was injured last
year and someone was really young. But I do wonder
with with Marquette now getting in state recruits, with Kentucky
stealing away hero, with Minnesota keeping kids home, Like how long?
(33:41):
How sustainable the Wisconsin thing is because this is you know,
they built a fence up and then they were able
to get go into Minnesota and and get kids during
bows regime, um and and occasionally getting kids out of Chicago.
I mean, like, look, Frank Kaminsky was going to go
to Northwestern if not for the fact that, um what's
(34:02):
his name was a former Northwestern coach? Why am I
forgetting Uh? Yeah, Bill Carmody No showed on his campus visit.
He they brought him into Bill Carmony's office and he
wasn't there. He was he you know, he was like
out like playing golf, like he was just not a
not a recruiter. Yeah no, So that's I mean, he
wanted I think his mom went there like he wanted
to go Northwestern. The point was you spill getting in Chicago,
(34:22):
you used bell getting in Minnesota. You spill bill of
fence around around all the kids in Wisconsin. Now, look,
maybe they can because the Wisconsin they can red shirt
guys and they can bring guys along slowly and they
got such an incredible program. Maybe it works anyway, but
no one's ever done without players. And when your recruiting
basses shrinking up because of the challenges of Richard Patino
and Kentucky and Marquette, woe. Joe is doing a great job.
(34:46):
And I do think Chris Collins is a good job
in Northwestern I think that changes things. But that may
be a discussion for another day. Um Uh, I look,
I I think that the your perspective of the n
c A thing is is is pretty much right on.
And the other thing is that nothing they would have
done would have been received with open arms. Right, But
if we if we if we simply said, hey, they
(35:06):
made it easier for kids to come back after being drafted.
Do you like that? Yes? I do. Uh. They changed
recruiting calendar, all right. I'm like, look, it's changed a
million times over. I don't think they perfected it. I'm
not sure it needed to be changed. Whatever, that's something
they felt like they were compelled to do. I think
they created greater access to legal access to agents for
(35:26):
players while they're in school for more information and an
easier way for them to come back to school. And
they took away some of their enforcement powers and enforcement duties.
Like I actually kind of think they did a decent job.
They do a great job. They completely fixed the system, No,
but we also agree, you and I would agree the
system wasn't totally broken. That was more perception than reality.
(35:49):
And so by not completely having an upheaval of a
system that most people believe wasn't completely broken, I don't
think they did a terrible job. No, I'm with you.
I'm with you. And like I said earlier, obviously you
see those big sweeping headlines and you don't see all
the caveats in between. But look, my kind of big
picture takeaway is you gotta start somewhere, right and so
(36:11):
like if so, we haven't even talked about the recruiting stuff,
and frankly, I think the average fan it would probably
bore them two tears. But like at the end of
the day, they've They've changed a couple of the events
over the course of the season. I think coaches aren't
crazy about it, but again it's it's part of it
is about public perception. But too, they made this edict
they want to get sneaker money out of or try
(36:33):
to limit the sneaker influence in in high school athletics
and in recruiting, and so they changed the schedule a
little bit. Everyone there's, oh, this is the worst thing ever,
And like, look, like you said, I don't think it's perfect.
But you know, the more that I peel back this stuff,
the more that I kind of realized, like, sometimes you
just gotta start somewhere, and like you said, does like
it doesn't have to be perfect, Like we don't have
to have all the answers today, and even if we did,
(36:55):
no matter what you do, people are still gonna be
upset about it. And so I used kind of the
recruiting example just as an example of is it the
perfect answer? No, does it piss a lot of people off? Yes?
But did it do the purpose that it was intended,
which is sort of kind of take away a little
bit of the power of the sneaker companies without completely
(37:16):
redoing the whole structure of the system. It did. And
so to me, I'm with you, is is And you know,
this is something that people who follow my work, people
who know me. I think the n c A in
general gets a pretty bad rap. I think the vast
majority of kids that come through college athletics male female, uh,
non revenue revenue, Like they got it pretty good. Like
(37:38):
if you're you know, if you if you're an athlete
at a Big ten school, like you're living a pretty
good life even though there's uh, you know, maybe five
kids on campus that are going to be able to
make a living doing whatever uh it is that they
play as a sport. And I'm with you, is like,
we don't have to have all the answers today, but
it was clear that they wanted to make change. They
put condo leads or rights in charge of this commission.
(38:00):
And yeah, like I was the guy banging the druma
on Wednesday, what is all this? But the more that
I peel it back, it's like, dude, sometimes you just
gotta start somewhere and and and this is what it is,
and it's going to continue to be tweaked over the
coming years. And I'm guessing that it probably isn't the
same a few years from now that it is now.
But it's okay. Like I said, you gotta starts somewhere, right,
Nothing is forever. And you know, first first part to
(38:23):
fixing a problem is admitting there is a problem. I
don't know how big the problem is. But they admit
there's a problem, trying to fix it and it doesn't work.
Like these rules are not set in stone. These are
not the the tablets came come down from Mount Sinai.
They're written in paper. Their amendments, they can be amended. Aaron,
great stuff is always appreciate your spirit and joining us
so much here. Can't wait to hear your radio show,
which is eight o'clock at night on the Pacific Coast
(38:45):
time on Saturday night at eleven o'clock at night on
the East Coast time. You can also listen to it
at Fox Sports Radio dot com or on Serious XM
channel eight three. Aaron Torres, Aaron, thanks so much. Appreciate
Timmy does all right. That's been all ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb.
I hope you enjoyed. I encourage you to listen to
my radio show three to six Eastern time noon to
(39:06):
three Pacific. You listen on Fox Sport Trader, the I
Heart Radio app for Serious XM channel eight three. In
the meantime, subscribe, download and rate us. Don't forget to
rate us. I appreciate you listening. We'll get back to
more storytelling next week,
Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and you are listening
to All Ball, All Basketball podcast all the time. Last
week a little bit different, we had Chris Beard on
the Texas Tech head coach kind of telling us the story,
taking us to the progression of his career. And he's
a great storyteller. We're gonna get back to more storytelling
next week. Uh. This week, I think there are two
(00:27):
big things to talk about. The first is the NBA
schedule dropping. And it's always interesting to me on how
um we seem. Sometimes you can be in denial over
over different things, like you know, you can be in
denial over uh, my Duke is on national TV in
college basketball so much, or or maybe not just Duke,
but Duke Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas, Syracuse. Um, those are the
(00:51):
schools that that rate. That's why they're on TV so much.
UM and so it's it's not it doesn't work the
other way around. It's not not the air on TV
so much. That's why they rate. They rate, That's why
they're on TV so much, period, end of the period
stop so UM. I do think that sometimes people people
question why are the Red Sox and Yankees always on
(01:13):
TV because they rate. That's it. There's there's no other
reason to it that that more people will watch. And
when you're in television and television program which I am
not okay, I'm on the production side, but the programming side,
the only thing they care about is what two teams
can we put on TV that get the most eyeballs.
(01:35):
That makes everybody more money. And so when you look
at the NBA schedule, it's fascinating to see the Lakers
schedule and maybe more than anything, how everyone else in
the league reacts. I went through it on my radio show,
The Doug Gotliep Show is daily three to six Eastern time,
UH twelve to three Pacific, Fox sport Trader dot Com,
I Heart Radio app series x m AD three for
(01:57):
the first two hours. You can also download the podcast daily.
I went through it and um, almost every team's website.
I went to wherever, almost every team's Twitter handle I
went to. I would say, here the Grizzlies, here's the
Memphis Grizzlies schedules, including two games with the Lakers. Find
(02:18):
out when Lebron James comes to town. Like Lebron James
is literally the biggest show on Earth. Now, Um, he
is in the Los Angeles. He is doing the Nike
Who the Labron James Nike Hoops Academy. He also had
his first couple of workouts at the Lakers practic facility.
But this is also a week to which week in
(02:39):
which excuse me, uh, it was announced he's got a
Netflix show, He's got an HBO show, a Showtime show,
a CBS show. There's other shows as well. And I
think the question for Lebron is not does he not
love basketball? I think I don't think that's close. I
think he loves basketball. I don't think I know he
(03:00):
loves basketball. But when you come to l A and
you have, you can have everything. I look at it
at lost as at l A As. Have you ever
been to a really nice restaurant. I'll give an example,
restaurant called the Peninsula. There's a Peninsula in New York,
in l A, in Chicago. I'm sure there's others, you know, worldwide.
It's very high enching. And a dear friend of mine,
(03:24):
whenever he has time and it wants to have breakfast,
invites me to breakfast at the Peninsula Hotel, which is
right across the street actually from the Beverly Hills Hilton.
So I may like like a block and a half
away from Beverly Hills Hilton centrally located not far from
the Fox lot Um. It's a cool spot and it's
kind of quiet, quaint, little outdoor area which some suns,
(03:46):
some shade. It's great. I had breakfast there earlier this week.
They actually have a buffet. But when you go to
a really good buffet, or even to go to bad
buffet um like can pair a we used to have
Western Sizzling and Oklahoma State or a Golden Corral or
a Sizzler, compare that buffet to a buffet at a
(04:10):
high end place. You go to a buffet at a
high end place, and they have a guy who makes
incredible omelets, right if somebody else will make you any
kind of juice. You don't just get coffee. You can
get cappuccino, You can get a latte, you can get
it with almond milk, with soy milk, you know, or
you can get regular coffee, any kind of tea you
ever wanted. And then you go through the actual buffet
(04:32):
and everything is magnificent. And what you end up doing
is sometimes is you get so much stuff because you're
used to you're trained to the whole. Like man, when
we were basketball players and we go to Las Vegas
and we'd stay at Circus Circus and we go through
the buffet. You're just trying to fill up with a
bunch stuff because the food wasn't that good, but you
just got a bunch, so you're really full and you'd
(04:53):
burned through it anyway, instead of just getting a great
piece of avocado toast and having a cappuccino where you
feel like you're full but not full. All right, you
feel really good and you really got to enjoy that
avocado toast with the poach egged on top, just so
instead you just had a smorgers board of stuff and
(05:15):
you eat and you like it, and it's fine, but
you don't really appreciate it, and it it loses its
it loses the quality that you're actually getting in a
place like the Peninsula Hotel or you know, on top
end restaurant. That's what Lebron James is running the risk
of here. Like Lebron's in l a and he can
(05:37):
do anything he wants. You know, he's got two houses,
he doesn't have to move. He's redoing his house. Kids
are going to be in private school, and there's lots
of time in the day. You know, you practice for
you work out for two two and a half hours
a day, right, you come in, you get your body
work done, you do your weight lifting, you do your
(05:57):
stre your training. You know you're stretching. Everything takes an hour.
Then you get an hour maybe on the court, maybe
a little bit longer, maybe a little bit less, depending
and in the off season, that's that's pretty good. You
don't need to do a ton. The most of those
guys don't do a ton more So, now you have
what do you have twenty hours left in your day?
(06:18):
You sleep six to eight hours a night, so tonight
you're working on um. Now you're working on fourteen hours
potentially left in your day, fourteen hours at most and
twelve hours maybe at least. You got twelve hours left.
And even if you go out to dinner and you've
(06:39):
got to lunch and you chew up an hour, that's
a ton of time. And even if you spend time
with your family, that's a ton of time. So it's
not like this is gonna these are gonna be time suckers.
To be a producer of a show on CBS. It's
a game show, to be a producer of of, you know,
a baller's type of show, to be a producer of
a documentary or the one that's gonna run where more
(07:00):
than an athlete, they they don't individually take up time.
But if you do end up having a full plate
and you lose track of that avocado toast which used
to be basketball. See he used to be in Cleveland,
which you just throw a bunch of things on the
plate because it makes everything tastes better. Now this is
all high end stuff and as much as you could
(07:21):
do a buffet, that's not the way to really enjoy
a meal. Sit down, take your time, enjoy a meal.
So I guess my only fear with Lebron is everybody
their whole life has said I want to do l
a and he has the power to do so. And
every website you go to, every Twitter handle you go to,
everyone in the NBA has fired up about the Lakers.
Already a draw with Lebron, a draw come to town.
(07:43):
Everyone the legal benefit from it. But what's fast, what's
gonna be fascinating to me is the pace in southern
California is so much faster than anywhere else I've ever been.
Maybe New York is the only other place, but l
A is the paces crazy past it. There are other
time suckers, not just your kids and your wife, but travel.
(08:07):
He's gonna live in Brentwood and this time at the
right time of day. What is it twenty minutes to
the facility the wrong time of day? It's an hour.
It's an hour. So I'll be faster to see though,
if there's just too many things on his plate in
year one because he's got a there's gotta be some
(08:28):
sort of meeting of the minds between his style and
Luke Walton style. There has to be an evident there.
What is it? Uh? I think it's like eleven of
the first fourteen games against playoff teams they have the second,
they travel the second most miles Portland's the most miles there,
the second the Clippers of the third. Part of that
is location based, but they're flying all over tim Buck two.
(08:48):
They're everybody's biggest game and he's got a lot on
his plate. So am I do? I think? Do I
totally agree with Charles Barkley with the idea that Lebron
has gotta moved on from trying to be a great
basketball player and is simply worried about being a mogul. No,
but do I think he wants to be a mogile?
I do. And the first year of making a transition
(09:09):
to southern California, I've done it twice, and not even
in l A. I'm in Orange County, which is much
slower than Los Angeles. It's fast, it's fast, and it
takes a while too. It takes a while to play
catch up. Now he's a megastar, And I guess you
could say this has been his entire professional life, has
been going from one town car to the next, you know,
(09:31):
and people pulling him in a million direction, different directions.
But I would tell you, and most people in Los
Angeles tell you, like, this place is different. The speed
is different, the amount of poll is different, and it
is a you have. You have a buffet to which
you can do. You can go hiking, you can go skiing,
you can go water skiing, you can go surfing, you
can hang at the beach. You can go to a
(09:52):
nice Hollywood dinner, you go to a Malibu dinner. You
can go out with family and go with friends, you
can go out with dignitaries, you can go out with celebrities.
You have all these things. This is the highest end
buffet you can find. But you might be smarter to
just have a piece of avocado toast and a really
good cup of coffee. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball.
(10:14):
The other part that's interesting to me with the Lakers,
a lot of people are calling out their roster rightfully,
so there are some pieces that are head scratchers. Um.
But I've explained in previous podcasts that this was not
a blank slate. It was not as easy as hey,
it's Lebron, let's go pick out some dream team of pieces.
(10:37):
Guys have to be free agents, so there has to
be able to be of a trade made. In this case,
you needed guys that were willing to sign a one
year deal because they want to keep themselves flexible for
next year's free agency bananza as well as maintaining all
these young players. Here's the part that no one's talking
about we'll talk about here is it's like the Duke
basketball effect, or let's just call it the Lebron effect.
(10:59):
As I told you, start, if you go to anybody's
Twitter handle. In the NBA, there will there will be
a mention of when the date when Lebron comes to town.
Because it's everybody's biggest game. It's Alabama football, Kentucky Duke basketball,
it's everybody's biggest game. And for all those Lakers, the
young ones that we all think can be good players,
(11:19):
from Brandon Ingram to Kyle Kuzman to a Josh Hard
to Alonzo Ball, how do those guys play in one,
real NBA games that matter in two in real NBA
games that matter against teams that are loaded for bear
in the past, the past couple of years. It's it's
not that people, It's not like the guys went out
drinking the night before the Lakers came to town. But
it's closer to the truth than they were getting in
(11:40):
bed with their milk and cookies. Know whing Lebron's coming
to town. You're not just playing on a team that's
capable of making the playoffs in a much more talented
conference than the Eastern Conference. You're doing so with Lebron James,
who is everyone's biggest game, and how the young Lakers
just to that is as interesting as anything else things
(12:02):
you can get away within any NBA game. You can't
get away within the big games. And as it's shaping up,
most every game early on the season is going to
be a big game for the young Lakers because they're
not only trying to prove to Lebron and to the
staff that they can play at a high level. They
gotta prove themselves. And when you don't see immediate success,
(12:24):
and they may not because it's their first year together,
when you don't seek occasional success, there is at least
the possibility that you lose your that you lose your
your mojo. Um, you lose your confidence, which is kind
of your mojo. You lose your confidence, and you lose
your confidence around Lebron James. He won't believe in you,
(12:45):
he won't give you the ball, they won't play it.
It's gonna be a really interesting to see how this
Laker thing works out. All right, then, let's get into
the changes in college basketball. Aaron Torres will be our guest.
Let's work for Fox Sports, written for The Athletic as
well as other sites. Um, I'm fascinated by the amount
of immediate negativity. It's like you didn't even read through
(13:08):
all the world change. Like now, they still don't get
it because Condoleeza Rice was on the was on the
the commission board. All right. I didn't think that the
Condoleeza Rice thing made sense. I would have liked more
a you guys, but hey, at the end of the day,
if what comes out of it is they tweaked the
recruiting schedule a little bit. They change where you're gonna
(13:29):
go see players some whatever. Guys can come back to
school even after they've been drafted. I like that. Um,
you can be wrapped by an agent while you're still
in school and he can meet with you legally and
buy your dinner and by your parents dinner and fly
them up and give them travel just to have that dinner. Like,
(13:50):
the idea is to cut out agents that are of
ill repute. That's the idea that the legal certified agents
can act like legal certified as Do I think this
makes sense? And yes? Do I think it fixes every problem? No?
Does it create new problems? I can't say so as
of yet. And I also don't love that everybody's operating
(14:13):
on an assumption that the NBA is gonna lower the
age limit and let guys come straight out of high school.
I wasn't a good idea, then it's not a good
idea now. But that's what's assumed, and that's why they
created this a. If you have an elite player's status,
then you could have an agent in high school. What's
an elite player? We don't know. We're not handling it.
Let's pass it off to USA Basketball. Not a strong look,
(14:34):
but I think you understand there. My point is the
the n c A couldn't not do anything, but any
sort of massive wholesale change changes too much. So a
slow push towards a different sort of summer camp look,
a slow push towards a different sort of way of
(14:56):
viewing athletes, and how we cut out the shady middleman.
And meanwhile, a relative change in the transfer rule, which
I don't like but does create player movement. Also, there's
the players can come back and they must be on
full scholarship, but only if they stay two years in college.
I like that. The idea of encouraging guys to stay
(15:17):
in school more or welcome them back even when they
try and go out and get a job in the
NBA are all good things. As far as the spring
and summer calendar, I don't love it. I don't know
why there is a need for regulation. I think you
just do one open month, you know. And I think
assistant coaches can be on the road all year. That's
(15:37):
what their job is, go out whenever. You know, if
you're around a kid too much, the kid's gonna get
creeped out by anyway. But this is the path they've
chosen to go by. And I can't think of anyone
rule which is so terrible, so awful, that it's going
to completely change the sport. I do think that takes
place if guys come straight at a high school and
(15:59):
go to the pros. The reason is all of these
basketball coaches, all these executives and in in at the
n c A, who will tell you, hey, listen, in
the college baseball model. You know what happens. If you
have the college baseball model and basketball, you have college baseball,
fun sport, grade sport, well coached, completely irrelevant in the
(16:20):
National Sports Lanksbill, let's welcome to Aaron Torres, who um
my colleague at Fox Sports Radio. Check out his radio
show eight to ten Pacific time Saturday nights on Fox
Sports Radio. You can also read his work in the
athletic fall on Twitter at Aaron, I think it's Aaron
underscore Torres at Aaron Underscore Torres, a college football college
(16:44):
basketball writer, wrote something called up one and fun just
does a really good job. Plus he loves to cover
the recruiting scene. And Aaron, I'm wondering your initial reaction
when you saw what the n c A has decided
to do with some of their new rules. Yeah, I
think you know, Doug, My reaction was, frankly, very similar
to I think everybody else here. It's the middle of
(17:05):
the week, middle of the day. Everybody's running around. You
see these big bold headlines. Players can now have agents,
Undrafted players can return to college, and you think, oh
my god, this is a landmark day. Everything has changed.
Everything we knew no longer exists. And then you read
the fine friend and you see that some of the
rules really, frankly aren't all that they are kind of
(17:25):
made out to be in that big headline. Uh, you know, look,
I do think there was some some important change as
far as the recruiting calendar. I know that not everybody
in college basketball is necessarily happy with it, and a
lot of change, you know, an important change was made
as far as kind of the enforcement process at the
n c A level, as far as, uh, the way
(17:46):
that investigations are going to be done and what kind
of information can be used. So it was an interesting
day Wednesday. But I think I speak for a lot
of people who cover college basketball when I say that
the initial headlines certainly didn't live up to what you
expected once you dug into him a little bit. You know,
it's funny you mentioned the enforcement. They're outsourcing their enforcement, right,
(18:07):
which is which is a great idea. Like of all
the things people have crushed them for, the fact that
they have a handed enforcement is something that leaves you
open um open to criticism. I mean, look what's happened
with the NFL with Roger Goodell being judge jury executioner, right,
and if you appeal, you you appeal to Roger Goodell.
Like somehow this has gotten lost that people haven't pointed out.
(18:28):
Even Mike de course you wrote a nice article. He
didn't even point out that they are outsourcing most of
the enforcement procedure and most of and some of the
investigation part of enforcement. I think it's a really good thing,
don't do you Yeah, I do. And you know, look
at the end of the day, I think what what
people have to remember is that all of these rules,
whether you like him, whether you don't like them, whether
(18:49):
you agree with the n c A, whether you don't,
they were all put in place because the n c
A felt like there were things that they needed to
get under control. Uh, after everything that came out with
the FBI process that you know last fall, and so
say what you want about the other stuff. This is
a direct reflection of what happened with the FBI, where
(19:11):
you have all of these schools in all of this trouble.
But it's frankly stuff that the n c A in
the past, as of previous to Wednesday, they couldn't punish
the school for us. So if you have an FBI
wire cap or you have a you know, an FBI
information that nobody else has access to, there's no way
that the n c A is going to be able
(19:31):
to get access to that information. And as of a
week ago, we were asking can Arizona really be punished?
Can usc really be punished? What about Louville with Brian Bowen. Well,
now all of that information is usable under the new
n c A jurisdictions, So will it curb cheating. I mean,
I think all of us that cover the sport know
(19:51):
that if a guy wants to bend the rules or
break the rules, he's gonna do it. But in theory, um,
you know, it makes it a little bit harder. It
makes it a little bit easier for the n c
A to actually hand down punishment if you are caught.
And oh, by the way, some of the new um
you know, the new verbiage and in the n c
A handbook about what can be punishable and how long
(20:13):
the punishment can be has changed as well. So I
think from that perspective, and I agree with you, Doug,
I think it's gotten a lot lost in the shuffle.
Is this idea that that the punishment process has changed.
And again, this is a reflection of what happened with
the FBI, And in theory it should go it. In theory,
it uh. In theory, it should help Aaron Torres joining us. Okay,
(20:34):
what about there is this growing assumption that the NBA
is gonna change back to allowing players to go to
the NBA Draft straight out of high school. That that's
the big thing that I think people are are misreading
or not reading the fine print is the the elite
prospect thing through people for a loop. What's an elite prospect?
You know, that's to be determined, Um, but it's if
(20:57):
you read it, it's like, hey, look, if in when
the NBA goes back to you can come straight out
of high school, then the elite prospects can be represented
by an agent, and then if you decide to go
to college, well then you have to cease to have
a relationship or a working relationship with with that agent. Um.
What's your level of belief that they are in fact
(21:20):
gonna do away with the one and done. Yeah's something
you and I talked about a little bit earlier today, Doug. Um.
You know, look, it seems like if you read the
tea leaves, and I think only really Adam Silver and
his closest confidence really have a great idea of what
their plan is. But it seems like they keep moving
this thing back. I mean, when when Adam Silver says
(21:41):
there's growing sentiment that we want to change it, everyone thinks,
oh my god, maybe it will be in effect as
early as next year, twenty nineteen. Then you hear the
earliest it would be as earlier this week, when all
this stuff comes out. John Calipari says, Hey, I've been
hearing it won't happen until two and I you know,
I think I know where you stand on as Doug.
But I think the reality is, while Adam Silver wants
(22:04):
to win kind of the pr war, as far as
letting kids get to this league as early as they
can make as much money as they can, I think
that the people on the ground, the people with boots
on the ground at the NBA level, the scouts, the
front office execs, I think they don't want they I
don't think they're interested in evaluating high school kids going
to a gym where maybe there's only one guy on
(22:26):
the court that not only has a professional future, but
it has a college future. I don't think they want that.
I think they want that extra year where a kid
has to go to college, has to compete against older competition,
has to compete against players his own age, his own
skill set, his own strength, all of that stuff. And
maybe I'm crazy, but but from everything I hear, and
(22:48):
I'm sure it's probably much the same for you, I
don't think most people in the NBA are really in
a in a rush to change this rule. The way
that I think maybe the general public thinks that they
might be. Yeah, I've I've always thought that Adam Silver
is a little bit overreactive to to Twitter narrative right,
Twitter set right, Whereas like, look, the G League is
getting better, it's an option for players straight out of
(23:11):
high school, but the best option still remains go to
one of these historic programs. I even like what the
n see I did. Obviously, I think the best, the best,
the thing that everybody likes, but we don't have. Maybe
the best foresight and how it's gonna work out is
that you can go to you know, declare for if
you go through the process correctly, declare for the draft,
don't get drafted, you can come back to school. Like
I like that. Um, I would also point out I
(23:33):
really like that. It's kind of always been a rule,
but now it's kind of set in. Hey, if you
stay for two years, anytime you come back, if you
go to the pros, anytime you come back, you're automatically
on full scholarship. Like I think that is awesome, like
creating more creating a reason to hang around and a
way to come back even when you thought you weren't
going to come back, Like I think all that stuff
(23:54):
is good. Now we do realize that guys that declare
for the draft, coach thinks he's gone, he recruits another player,
you got their team scholarships. What happens if you're over
the limit? What happens to the players who? I mean? Like, look,
if you decided to come back, is that player who's
gonna play your position? He is he gonna leave like that.
It's a little bit trickier than people think. But I do, actually,
I do actually like that stuff. I just I don't
(24:15):
really understand this push for the nun and done. I
read Steve Kerr's article when he was working for Turner,
and he was saying, hey, we need more time in college.
It gives us a great because because they're they're they're
more mature, they've had to answer to somebody, They've had
to be around a team. This is a man's world.
It's a professional, it's a job. They need some time
(24:35):
away from however they grew up to grow up on
their own before they become a pro. I agree with that,
but it feels like Adam Silver is going along with
his Twitter narrative. No, I totally agree. I totally agree,
and I think that there's so much value to college. Um.
And it's it's on the court, it's off the court, um,
(24:55):
even if we're talking strictly from a basketball perspective. First
of all, by the way, every single guy that has
been forced to go to college kind of quote unquote forced,
I'm using quotation marks has talked about how beneficial it was.
Look Kevin Durant, for whatever, he has become the social
media pariah that he's become over the last year or two.
Like I've heard him say, that year at Texas changed
(25:17):
me as a person. I'm more mature. I you know,
I entered the league, you know, with the more open mind.
I had met people of Texas. I had interacted with
people of Texas that I would have never interacted with
if I hadn't spent that one year in college. It
made me a better person. I've heard Anthony Davis say
the same. But then you also look at the om
the court stuff, and I actually think these coaches, for
(25:39):
all the criticism that they get, they do a pretty
good job of taking that eighteen year old kid out
of high school and prepackaging him and having them ready
for the NBA. For the NBA year later. Um, you know, look,
you've been in these facilities. I've been in these facilities.
I'm sure. Uh, you know a lot of media people
that are talking about this that feel the same way
is that you go to a u c. L A.
(26:00):
You go to in Arizona. They have a couple of
meals prepared for them every day. They're working with world
class strength and conditioning coaches. They are they are basically
it really is almost a junior NBA. And the way that, frankly,
even though being in the G League is professional, it's
not the same Riding a bus in odd in Utah
(26:21):
is not the same as flying charter from Durham, North
Carolina to wherever the heck duke is playing their next game.
And so I'm with you, and I think the thing
you bring up about Adam Silver replying to the Twitter narrative,
I totally agree. And I think we're seeing this because look,
you know, I can think back to when this FBI
thing happened. I can think back to when he went
(26:41):
on with our buddy Colin Calhood a year ago and
said that he was ready to make this change. Oh.
I watched the Ben Simmons documentary and these kids are
not This is this rule is not having the effect
that it was supposed to get. All of a sudden,
here we are one you know where where you removed
from the FBI stuff, and it seems like there keeps
being this push to move it back, move it back,
(27:02):
move it back. And I think it's a reflection of
like I said, the people that actually have to make
these decisions, the people whose jobs are on the line
as GMS coaches, front office people. They don't want to
be dropping a seventeen year old on high school, even
if it's only one year Duke or Arizona in North Carolina.
There really is a benefit to it in the evaluation process,
no question, Yeah, no question. I mean, um, you and
(27:23):
I have talked and you brought up treyvon Duval where
where you know, if you go back to high school,
he's a he's probably a top pick. But now we
saw him for a year, we understand that in addition
to his inability to shoot, he didn't really run a
team or create shots for others the way that a
guy like that should. And he's gonna have to fight
his way here with the Bucks with a with a
two way, two way contract. He is technically a professional,
but not nearly what he would have been had he
(27:45):
not been exposed a bit of Duke for the most part,
though we helped. It helps build guys brands and they
gotta show up on time. They got to balance stuff
with school, which is like it's it's like real life,
only it's not, and provides him a great safe in it.
You and I, You and I completely agree on on
that one. Um. All right, one last thing before before
we bid, before we bid a d um the Duke
(28:11):
Incoming class, the Kentucky incoming class. Um. Comparing contrast the
two for people who haven't who don't understand, just these
are two loaded classes that I have to play right away.
Compare contrast the two. Yeah, it's weird because, Um, first
of all, I think the top of Duke's class is
unquestionably better. They have arguably the three best players in
(28:34):
this class. R J. Barrett, Kim Reddish and Zion Williamson.
Who's the player that everybody knows, whether you're a college
basketball fan, high school basketball fan, or not. But to
be perfectly honest, man, you know, I've seen all those
guys that are all kind of wings. None of them
really shoot the ball that well, and I'm really curious
as to how all of those guys work together. Unquestionably,
(28:55):
those three are probably the three most talented players coming
into come basketball this year. I really have doubts that
it's gonna work together even the same way that was
for you saying no, I was gonna say even with
even with was it Tyler Jones? Tyas Jones's brother as
a point guard? Doesn't that doesn't that help mitigate some
of those issues? It does? It does, But I you know,
(29:16):
I don't know. I just I think back and I
know I know what your argument would be is that
two years ago, when they had Grayson now and Luke
Kannard and Jayson Tatum, they didn't have that traditional point
guard like Track Jones. I get that argument. I just
don't know. It's just I don't want to do the
whole cliche one ball a bunch of guys thing. I
just don't know how it works Outlook, Coach k Has
(29:38):
and his recruiting pitch, I think, quite frankly, was hey,
look man, I had Lebron, Katie and Carmelo on the
same team at one point. We figured out a way
to make it work. Yeah, But I mean like, that's
that's that you had so much better play. Like, look,
I do think, well here, here's here's the thing. Like
I think. I think the Trade Jones thing makes it work.
It's it's interesting. So the Nike Basketball Academy has taken
place in Thousand Oaks. I talked to NBA assistant GM
(30:01):
last night and he's like, man, those college games were
so bad. And I was like, why do you think
they were so bad? And he's like, because there's no
point guard. It's like, you have no point guard, you
have all wings. It just it doesn't work. And I
was like, exactly, so what you're describing, which I I get.
You know, you got r J. Barrett, Cam Reddish and design,
but you know you put Zion at the four and
(30:22):
you put a real point guard out there, couldn't it
then work? It could? Yeah, I mean the problem is
that outside of R J. Barrett, none of them are
very good shooters either. So that to me is I
just I don't know if it could work. It could work.
But the other thing with Duke, they have no real depth,
They have no returning experience like last year with Grace
(30:45):
and Now and at least Grace Now and was a
fourth year guy this year. I mean four, you know,
four freshmen that are gonna be asked to carry that
load from day one. Look, you know, look, I think
it's going to be Duke is gonna be what they've
been the last couple of years, where I don't know
that I would pick them. I don't know that I
picked them over Virginia or North Carolina that both return
a bunch of players in the a c C in
(31:08):
the regular season, But when you get to the tournament
and you throw that ball up, you know, it's about
having to use a duck Gottli totermam. It's about having dudes,
you know, and they are gonna have dudes. So uh,
you know that is the gifts in the curse of
college basketball is that sometimes, uh, the regular season isn't
as important as we wanted to be. So look, if
you're telling me, would I be surprised if they win
the national championship next year? Absolutely not. I just think
(31:30):
it's one of those deals that that I do think
there's gonna be some speed bumps along the way, maybe
even more than people would expect with the recruiting class
like that. What about Kentucky's recru class. UH, different group
of guys. You know. The the cool thing about Kentucky
is they're playing these nationally televised games in the Bahamas
as we speak here, uh in the middle of August,
and you're getting a feel for for who those guys
(31:53):
are and what they're capable of. I don't think any
of them has the long term potential of of what
the Duke I do. I think the good thing for
Kentucky is they actually have some vets. I mean, look
re Travins Grant transfer from from Stanford fifth year senior
to time PAC twelve All Conference pick PJ. Washington. I
(32:13):
think he probably would have been drafted if he stayed
in the draft this past season. Um comes back as
a sophomore. Nick Richards looks unbelievable, which is something I
never thought i'd say. Um, But I don't think any
of the freshman are as good. I will say this, though,
I don't know how much you've got to watch the
first couple of games here, Doug. They got a kid,
Tyler Hero from Wisconsin. I mean I saw him like
three months ago at the Nike Hoops Summit. I didn't
(32:35):
think he was gonna be like this. He's been by
far the best players. I think it's gonna be interesting.
I think Kentucky's got more depth, more experience. But those
front end guys that Duke certainly are pretty darned and
hero remember what was gonna go to was going to
go to Wisconsin and change his mind and ends up
going to Kentucky. And and he is uh very athletic
uh and and he can look he can shoot and
(32:57):
score or something that they that they've missed. I will
be I'm intrigued to see, um, I'm intrigued to see
if he'll gardeny buddy, and I'm intrigued to see, like
if his shot selection is really good once they get
to real basketball games. But he does give, he does
give them. You know, a white kid was some swagger
that's absolutely completely unafraid. And he does appear to have
(33:18):
a much more refined perimeter game than some others and
something that Kentucky hasn't had in a couple of years.
And that actually at some point we'll get into this
once we get coach to college basketball season. I like
some of what Wisconsin brings back. Some was injured last
year and someone was really young. But I do wonder
with with Marquette now getting in state recruits, with Kentucky
stealing away hero, with Minnesota keeping kids home, Like how long?
(33:41):
How sustainable the Wisconsin thing is because this is you know,
they built a fence up and then they were able
to get go into Minnesota and and get kids during
bows regime, um and and occasionally getting kids out of Chicago.
I mean, like, look, Frank Kaminsky was going to go
to Northwestern if not for the fact that, um what's
(34:02):
his name was a former Northwestern coach? Why am I
forgetting Uh? Yeah, Bill Carmody No showed on his campus visit.
He they brought him into Bill Carmony's office and he
wasn't there. He was he you know, he was like
out like playing golf, like he was just not a
not a recruiter. Yeah no, So that's I mean, he
wanted I think his mom went there like he wanted
to go Northwestern. The point was you spill getting in Chicago,
(34:22):
you used bell getting in Minnesota. You spill bill of
fence around around all the kids in Wisconsin. Now, look,
maybe they can because the Wisconsin they can red shirt
guys and they can bring guys along slowly and they
got such an incredible program. Maybe it works anyway, but
no one's ever done without players. And when your recruiting
basses shrinking up because of the challenges of Richard Patino
and Kentucky and Marquette, woe. Joe is doing a great job.
(34:46):
And I do think Chris Collins is a good job
in Northwestern I think that changes things. But that may
be a discussion for another day. Um Uh, I look,
I I think that the your perspective of the n
c A thing is is is pretty much right on.
And the other thing is that nothing they would have
done would have been received with open arms. Right, But
if we if we if we simply said, hey, they
(35:06):
made it easier for kids to come back after being drafted.
Do you like that? Yes? I do. Uh. They changed
recruiting calendar, all right. I'm like, look, it's changed a
million times over. I don't think they perfected it. I'm
not sure it needed to be changed. Whatever, that's something
they felt like they were compelled to do. I think
they created greater access to legal access to agents for
(35:26):
players while they're in school for more information and an
easier way for them to come back to school. And
they took away some of their enforcement powers and enforcement duties.
Like I actually kind of think they did a decent job.
They do a great job. They completely fixed the system, No,
but we also agree, you and I would agree the
system wasn't totally broken. That was more perception than reality.
(35:49):
And so by not completely having an upheaval of a
system that most people believe wasn't completely broken, I don't
think they did a terrible job. No, I'm with you.
I'm with you. And like I said earlier, obviously you
see those big sweeping headlines and you don't see all
the caveats in between. But look, my kind of big
picture takeaway is you gotta start somewhere, right and so
(36:11):
like if so, we haven't even talked about the recruiting stuff,
and frankly, I think the average fan it would probably
bore them two tears. But like at the end of
the day, they've They've changed a couple of the events
over the course of the season. I think coaches aren't
crazy about it, but again it's it's part of it
is about public perception. But too, they made this edict
they want to get sneaker money out of or try
(36:33):
to limit the sneaker influence in in high school athletics
and in recruiting, and so they changed the schedule a
little bit. Everyone there's, oh, this is the worst thing ever,
And like, look, like you said, I don't think it's perfect.
But you know, the more that I peel back this stuff,
the more that I kind of realized, like, sometimes you
just gotta start somewhere, and like you said, does like
it doesn't have to be perfect, Like we don't have
to have all the answers today, and even if we did,
(36:55):
no matter what you do, people are still gonna be
upset about it. And so I used kind of the
recruiting example just as an example of is it the
perfect answer? No, does it piss a lot of people off? Yes?
But did it do the purpose that it was intended,
which is sort of kind of take away a little
bit of the power of the sneaker companies without completely
(37:16):
redoing the whole structure of the system. It did. And
so to me, I'm with you, is is And you know,
this is something that people who follow my work, people
who know me. I think the n c A in
general gets a pretty bad rap. I think the vast
majority of kids that come through college athletics male female, uh,
non revenue revenue, Like they got it pretty good. Like
(37:38):
if you're you know, if you if you're an athlete
at a Big ten school, like you're living a pretty
good life even though there's uh, you know, maybe five
kids on campus that are going to be able to
make a living doing whatever uh it is that they
play as a sport. And I'm with you, is like,
we don't have to have all the answers today, but
it was clear that they wanted to make change. They
put condo leads or rights in charge of this commission.
(38:00):
And yeah, like I was the guy banging the druma
on Wednesday, what is all this? But the more that
I peel it back, it's like, dude, sometimes you just
gotta start somewhere and and and this is what it is,
and it's going to continue to be tweaked over the
coming years. And I'm guessing that it probably isn't the
same a few years from now that it is now.
But it's okay. Like I said, you gotta starts somewhere, right,
Nothing is forever. And you know, first first part to
(38:23):
fixing a problem is admitting there is a problem. I
don't know how big the problem is. But they admit
there's a problem, trying to fix it and it doesn't work.
Like these rules are not set in stone. These are
not the the tablets came come down from Mount Sinai.
They're written in paper. Their amendments, they can be amended. Aaron,
great stuff is always appreciate your spirit and joining us
so much here. Can't wait to hear your radio show,
which is eight o'clock at night on the Pacific Coast
(38:45):
time on Saturday night at eleven o'clock at night on
the East Coast time. You can also listen to it
at Fox Sports Radio dot com or on Serious XM
channel eight three. Aaron Torres, Aaron, thanks so much. Appreciate
Timmy does all right. That's been all ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb.
I hope you enjoyed. I encourage you to listen to
my radio show three to six Eastern time noon to
(39:06):
three Pacific. You listen on Fox Sport Trader, the I
Heart Radio app for Serious XM channel eight three. In
the meantime, subscribe, download and rate us. Don't forget to
rate us. I appreciate you listening. We'll get back to
more storytelling next week,
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
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