Episode Transcript
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you watched last night? Did you watch? Uh? There was
some other stuff going on right in your life in
your world Major League Baseball. Um, I know there's some
(01:03):
TV shows that I have not caught up on. You know,
Big Bang Theory apparently came to an end a couple
of nights ago. Was that last week, I had no idea.
It's okay, it's it's on in um what's it called
the ramos? When you syndication right, those shows like Seinfeld,
I feel like they never went away. Did you watch
(01:24):
the NBA Playoffs last night? Game four Eastern Conference Finals?
If you didn't, Toronto one, Norman Powell was had kind
of a breakthrough game. Fred van Bleep, who had been
struggling the playoffs, made some shots, made some plays, and
Kawhi Leonard, despite being injured or excuse me, hurt, played
(01:48):
well enough to win. Meanwhile, Di Milwaukee Bucks struggled to
make shots again. But I found myself really, really really struggling.
I love basketball, and I'm watching Kawhi Leonard, who, for
my money, is one of the top three players in
the game. There's the irony to the fact that he
(02:09):
missed most of last season with an injury that the
Spurs thought he had already come back from, and last
night he was playing clearly dinged up, which I'm not
sure if it's exchange rate or the Canadian healthcare policy
or whatever it is, but it is interesting that he's
(02:30):
playing hurt in playing for Team Canada, whereas he didn't
seem to want to play hurt playing for the San
Antonio Spurs. Granted, different injuries, but it's at least interesting.
Uh Jana Stonakopo continues to struggle with his shooting and
doesn't appear to be totally ready to be a breakthrough
(02:51):
superstar in the playoffs, but nonetheless he got two of
the top five top ten players in the game. You
have the Toronto Raptors, who, hell as late as last
year had the best record in the NBA. The Milwaukee
Bucks had the best record in the NBA this year.
Excuse me, the Raptors last year best record in the
(03:13):
Eastern Conference. And so it's not like they're totally Johnny
Come Lately's, but I just struggled with the lack of
kind of brand identification. That's really what it comes down to,
right It's it's like when there's a new car on
the market, like, yeah, I need to see some consumer
(03:37):
reports reviews before I really decide whether or not I'm
going to get in it. Now. It's take the Volvo
for example. Right now, Volvo has kind of switched hands
a couple of times over the last twenty years in
terms of who owns the company. But you already have
(03:57):
established in your mind what a Volvo is. When I
say Bova, what do you think, like, Man, that's a
safe car. That's a boring safe car. Right, So even
if they make they make some beautiful sedans, now that
makes some cool SUVs, you can't get out of your
mind the branding that has been established. Correct, a Chevy
(04:21):
im Paula. Now, the Impala now is really just kind
of a family commuter sedan. But if you're my age,
you remember about twenty years ago they came out with
UH and Impaula. That was Impaula's supersport that had like
a Corvette engine. And if you're an old time you
remember the Impaula as a souped up, souped up car.
(04:43):
Right again, the the brand identification with the name. That's
smart and it's interesting. My favorite show that I've been
binge watched and I've I didn't watch Breaking Bad when
Breaking Bad was the thing. It was like a couple
of years later. I didn't watch The Wire when The
Wire was a thing. It was a couple of years later.
(05:03):
I didn't watch mad Men when mad Men was the
thing was a couple of years later, I'm now binge
watching with my daughter. Uh the Office, it was great. Uh.
Last night we we watched um Cafe the Cafe Disco one.
Do you guys remember the Cafe Disco on? Cafe Disco
is awesome, But my favorite one was mad Men. And
(05:25):
I have a marketing degree, fascinated by ad sales and advertising.
I'm also interested in kind of that era in society
and I like the storylines. But but part of what
you learn is about how the genius of advertising is
(05:49):
creating an image that locks in with the brand. And
we just haven't had enough time to understand who the
raptors are or to really get our arms around the
Milwaukee Bucks. And it's not their fault. They're not bad.
They're really good, but because they haven't been really good
(06:09):
at a high level for a long time, I just
find myself struggling to buy into watching it. Like being
with an established brand matters, and I think this is
all throughout sports, like this offseason, it's gonna be gonna
be fascinating, like like are you are they really good
to advise Kevin Durant or Kauahi Leonard to tie in
(06:33):
with the Clippers brand, right, Like, do you really want
to tie in with the Clippers brand? Because even though
I have great respect for what they're doing, like that
is a really well run franchise. They got rid of
their three best players over the last two years, and
the appear to have come out the other side as
a playoff team with a championship caliber coach, with championship
(06:57):
caliber management, with an owner everyone seems to like and
just loves being an owner of a team cap space,
and and even though there's still the third tenant in
their arena, they might be the favorite to get quiet
lettered and maybe Kevin Durant Like that's crazy. On the
other hand, still the Clippers, like the Nets, have the
(07:17):
same problem in Brooklyn, whereas the Lakers, with all of
the issues that they have, they're still the freaking Lakers. Heck,
I can make the case Juwan Howard is gonna be
the new head coach of the University of Michigan. And
I've told people for the twenty years or so, almost
twenty years I've been out of school, Like, I don't
(07:39):
think people will understand the true value to a college
scholarship is you get to identify with that school's brand.
For the rest of your life, Juwan Howard has. He's
only getting that job for one reason. He's a Michigan man.
I'm not saying he's not qualified. I'm not saying he's
(08:00):
not gonna do a good job. Don't get it twisted.
But had he not gone to played at Michigan and
established his own brand as part of the Fab five
and to Final Fours and then gone on to be
a brilliant professional player and now an assistant coach in
the pros, he would have no shot if he didn't
go to Michigan. And I think it's a good thing.
(08:22):
You bring a Michigan guy home becomes I believe the
only Power five Conference school to have a Michigan up
as an alum as football and basketball coach. Hardball now
obviously the football coach. But branding is real. We can
pretend like it doesn't matter, but it's a real issue
(08:42):
and also a real strength depending on who's actually playing.
Take Adam Silver's word for it. This was Adam Silver
who was asked on the Today Show the mainstream TV
about ratings being down because Lebron wasn't in the playoffs.
Lebron is one of the biggest stars in the world,
and he also played in the East, and so you know,
(09:03):
the reason I look a little bit tired is a
lot of our games are in the West, and it's
late at night, and I recognize most people choose to
go to sleep at a reason both time and so
from a rating standpoint, not having Lebron in the playoffs,
not having him in the East has clearly impacted ratings.
If you start a game at six pm local time
in the West, it's not the most convenient thing. It's
not that as convenient for a television watcher on the
(09:24):
West coast either, but when you look at the league
from a national standpoint, it may make sense to play
a little bit earlier in the West. And that's something
we're going to talk to our teams about this summer.
We're gonna look at it. Yeah, we're gonna take a
look at it. Is Uh. It's like when you're a
parent and you say maybe, my kids always said that.
Don't say maybe. Maybe. It means no, I take a
look at it. Do I can have dinner? You can
(09:46):
I have a dessert. We'll take a look at it.
Maybe that's a no. You move your games at six
o'clock we'll take a look at it. We're gonna look
at at the summer, take a look at it. Maybe
that's not happening. Look, these two teams Milwaukee and Toronto
are better than Lebron's Cavaliers team last year, but fewer
people will watch. Why Well, one is north of the border,
(10:08):
the other ones in in Milwaukee. But too they're not
established brands. The Celtics are an established brand. They are.
Lebron is an established brand. Wherever he goes his brand,
his winning makes you want to watch. The Warriors have
become an established brand through five finals in a row.
(10:33):
So I find myself watching two of the elite teams
in the NBA, and I've heard other people say, well,
that's the water down NBA, Like, no, it's not. These
are just two of the best teams. You're just not
used to. The Sixers were really good this year. The
Celtics were really pretty are and good this year. Those
four teams are good in the West, they're good in
the East. I would make the case that the West
(10:54):
wasn't is it nearly as strong as the as it
used to be, and the East was far better. Why
do you have this embedded in your brain? That the
West is so much better branding. They've won fourteen the
last twenty NBA finals. More than anything, it's been pounded
away year after year and it just takes time. So
me is that as an avid basketball viewer, an avid
(11:17):
basketball viewer, a former fan, I mean a former player
who covers it, knows the coaches and as the players.
We had a couple of coaches on Monty Williams and um,
who else do we have on yesterday Frank Vogel on
yesterday download the pot shameless plug. I can tell you
that even though it's suddenly become a two to anyone
(11:39):
can take this series. That Toronto's finally got Fred van
Bleet plan finally got some contributions from their bench Norman Powell,
and even though Kauai has banged up, they're winning the
last two games and their defense has been excellent in
the Milwaukee returns home, and you would expect them to
play far better at home. It's become anybody. It should
be super exciting. I can't wait. And I'm like, because
(12:04):
whether it's a sports sprain or just my regular brain,
I have trouble with the lack of branding and established
winning presence not necessarily culture, but mindset as a fan
of either one of these teams, there's just no buy
into him because I haven't seen him do it before.
(12:29):
And then I guess the question for the NBA is
do the do the Bucks become the Spurs or the
thunder Right? I mean, they're coached by a former Spur assistant,
and Jana seems like like Tim Duncan to be about
the right things and not necessarily about publicity, even though
he does have some TV commercials and there's always gonna
(12:52):
be some limitations market size wise. But the thunder only
got to one NBA Finals, but seem to become far
more watchable, even if they don't nearly have the winds
to back it up like the like the Spurs do.
And if the Raptors don't win this series, are they
forever like the Cleveland Cavaliers of the nineties, not even
(13:16):
the Knicks or the Pacers, who both got to an
NBA finals. The Cavaliers, remember, they used to have a
loaded roster, but they could never get past Jordan's and
now with this era is Jordan Lebron out of the East.
They can't get past the Bucks. They're forever kind of
mired in that really really good but not great category.
(13:37):
I struggled yesterday. I'll struggle to recap it, to pay
attention to it, even though I would tell you Kawhi
Leonard and Janice are two remarkable stars, and these are
two really good teams, but the Raptors haven't been able
to establish themselves as winners, and the Bucks just haven't
(13:57):
been doing it long enough for most of us to
buy in. Be sure to catch live editions, so the
Doug Got Leaps Show weekdays in noon eastern three pm
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio
app Let's get the opinion of a good friend of mine.
You can hear his Dual Threat podcast on The Ringer,
as well as his own podcast, the Ryan Rusilla Podcast.
(14:18):
He joins us in The Doug Gallup Show on Fox
Sports Radio. Ryan like, look, you're like me, we watched
ball anytime it's on TV. But what's your level of
I don't know energy in watching when it's the Bucks
and the Raptors. I really got up for Game one.
I loved what I saw from the books. First half
(14:39):
a Game two, I thought it was incredible and it
was really really impressive. But I also said, because any
Toronto a good team, and I found it kind of
weird have dismisses it so like the public was just
after those first two it was already like, okay, how's
golden seeking a match up a Milwaukee um. But I
starggled with last night. I did. I feel like they're
games where you go, are you really locked into everything
(14:59):
that's happening, And for whatever reason, it wasn't really happening
that way after a big time win for Toronto in
Game three. I think that the guards are kind of
the story throughout this. Like we know Kauai, there's a
maxi version of the and there's still a baseline version
of that's great. Probably the same thing with Janice, but
the guards are so inconsistent and I don't really know
(15:19):
what to expect. I've never been a huge lowry guy
in this run, but got to give him a credit.
He kind of kept them going last night, and he
said bigger games, you know, throughout the playoffs, probably this
front to the other ones, but it was I'm still
trying to feel it out because I just I just
MutS Milwaukee misses all their shots and the backcourt guys
and it's easier to send nice and that was kind
of the game even though kau I didn't really have
(15:40):
to go off um because he didn't, so it was
really about supporting guys. Okay, So I guess here's maybe
the question. I was watching the game for the the
Blazers game against the Warriors, and um, it was just fun, right,
Like those dudes were just out there hooping and and
the shot makeing from the Warriors, and the first for
(16:01):
the Blazers to take the lead and then the Warriors
for the comeback was incredible. I don't know if it's
just guards or or or it's the way they play,
or it's the fact, I know the Warriors, you know,
are playing down three guys. I don't know what it is.
I don't know. It just felt more fun. Even though
that series was over. It was three games and none.
It was a rap whether the Blazers won that game
(16:24):
or not. Why do you think it is? Why do
you think it was so much more? It is more fun?
I mean, this is the whole point. This is like
Live Cotton getting mad at that everybody hates Golden States
so much? Is that you know, this is still awesome
to watch and now without Durant, and they're motivated by it,
which I think is a real thing. But it doesn't
mean they're better without Durant. It just I think they
want to remind everybody what they accomplished before he showed
(16:44):
up there and the freedom of movement and Steph proving that,
you know, there's certain stars in this league they're only
going to play their way. Westbrook is one of those guys.
I think Hardened is that, um, you know there's other
players that you just know, no matter who's around them,
I'm always playing my way. This just proves its death
is one of the most accommanding superstars we've ever seen,
that he can go back to this guy that he
was for a few years before Durant shows up and
(17:05):
I'm with you Game three, Like I went out with
some friends. We said we at the inner who watched that.
I mean, I don't really care who wins it loses
any of these things anymore, But it's just it's a
reminder of how special those two guards are when they're
running around like crazy and they have to make all
the shots and they don't have this this fix it
guy who's seven one who can make any of the
shot he wants to and Durant, so it's raised their
(17:27):
level up. And I don't think you're wrong for that
at all. There is a letdown because this Warrior's thing
has been a lot of fun the last two weeks.
What if I made the case and um Andrew Goodalas
said that Steff's the second best ever I think he
meant point guard. Uh, we can we can argue that
if we want. Um, I do think he's changed basketball.
And what's a good shot? What's a bad shot? Gilbert
Renis used to take these shots just a far less success, uh,
(17:50):
and on a on a on a lesser stage than
what Steff is doing. But I would make the case
that the game changer really in terms of the history
of the NBA is Draymond and Um. I just you know,
we had vogelon yesterday and Vogel was like, he's just
you could just tell by his voice he was blown
away by how the sport has changed so dramatically since
(18:14):
he had Roy Hibbert and there in the Eastern Conference
Finals against the Calves, and then you know, like two
years later, like Roy Hibberts basically out of the league
because you can't play a traditional center who can't move
his feet, you know, and anymore in the league like this,
there's no place for them. And I think Draymond, as
much as Steph, has changed what we view as a
good shot and a bad shot in the range for guys,
(18:34):
I think Draymond's the guy who's changed the league more.
Would you say Dre or Steph is a more transcendent pro.
It's a really good point about Draymond, but I've disagreed.
I just feel like Steph has made everyone change the
way we look at offense in a weird way. I
think it's you could you could argue he's negatively impact
(18:56):
because I see guys that aren't even ready to shoot
trying to take these shots to Steph May and you go,
why would you take that with seventeen seconds left in
the shot clock? And it's this obsession with threes. And
even though the math is telling us that basketball should
have been doing this for a while, it doesn't mean
every ridiculous three point attempt is a good one. And
I feel like some players think that after watching Steph
and for a small player to to do what he's
(19:19):
done and start as an off guard where Mark Jackson
didn't really see him the way Steve Kurt did and
part of that Steph's own development. And then you know
they used to play him off at Jared Jack and
then it's like, okay, now we can play him as
a scoring point guard because that changed, you know, because
of other point guards before him, Like you can't be
a point guard in the NBA now if you can't score.
Before they used to be like, ah, he's not gonna
do very good point because he's not thinking team first.
(19:40):
All those things. So I think Draymond being part of
the sizing down revolution and everybody going smaller and that
Hampton fives line up not scaring people the way it
used to because other people are just used to it
and they have their own versions of it. I think
it's a really good argument. But I don't know that
other players can do what Draymond does. So Draymond is
doing this thing that when I see him, like an
if Canner couldn't back him down and then he jumped
(20:01):
into the passing and then running the fast break decisions.
There's just I don't think there's other guys that can
do or even try to do, what Draymond has done.
As much as people try to do what step is stuff, right,
But I actually think they're one and the same. And
and oh yeah, by the way, the genius to occur.
You're right in terms of plane as as uh stuff
as a point but he also plays him as soon
as he passes the basketball and he starts moving. Now
(20:22):
he becomes a two guard again. And that it's because
they have Draymond as like a point center, and because
they have Durant who's like a point power forward, and
they have other guys that can facilitate as well. Like
it all just kind of Andreadalak is kind of like
kind of got some point guard skill to him. Um,
And so it's kids, it's it's doing both and the
fact that he can do both is crazy amazing. I
(20:44):
don't know. It's a fascinating team to watch. There's a
there's a new report out Markstein basically saying, um, he
can go anywhere, right, his own rich climate comes out
and goes He's open undecided as to where he's going.
Where where do you think k D's brain really is
a lot of this is Samanti's. I mean I saw
(21:05):
a climate interview. He's not gonna tell it. I mean
a lot of this is trying to diffuse all this stuff.
I think a lot of this is is very similar
to kind of big decisions were often make in life.
Is you may not have made that final decision, but
there's always a lean. If there's always a direction, you're
(21:25):
more likely to go in. And for every bounce of
a Kauai shot, you know whether he's going to go
in against Still it's like, Oh, he's gonna stay, and
then they were down to oh and it's like he's
gonna leave, and who I probably he goes what he's doing.
So I look at the durant thing from the beginning
of how it changes from Golden State because only people
(21:46):
around the league the confidence coming out of Golden States
that he's returning, and it was just you know, just hey,
let's just get this contract done and he can figure
out whatever terms he wants. This year is different. There's
a lack of confidence from people that you talk about
the Golden State and their ability to retain him. So
if you start trying to map this out. When I
was in Chicago this past weekend, as much as it's
(22:08):
always been about the Knicks, the book, when thing just
picked up as an option and I know Stein was
was writing the Clippers and maybe some of these other places.
But I don't know why he would open it up
to all of these different places. And part of me
still thinks, like, if he's pursuing happiness stuff to being
in one of the happiest basketball situations, I I just
hope he knows what he's doing here, even though I
(22:29):
selfishly want him to leave Golden States so we can
watch these guards. And I mean, if he thinks he's
unhappy at times because of the criticism of Golden State,
what's it gonna be like if he's on the Knicks
and r. J. Barrett's the second best player in the
team and Dolan is still the owner and they're in
the fourth or five seed battle and he's in New
York and there aren't other people to deflect the attention.
(22:49):
I mean, he's just going to get ugly fast for
a guy that has proven that the stuff can bother him. Yeah,
I I you know, if you don't like the media
attention in Oakland and into San Francisco, how are you
gonna enjoy how you how are you gonna enjoy that
in New York? Um? All right, what do you think
of the damage that was potentially done by Magic Johnson
(23:12):
to the Lakers this upcoming off season. Are we just
talking about the TV hit and we talked about everything
in general. Um, both. But I do think that the
TV hit is a purse per you know it It
made it from people think that it's a mess to
people knowing that it's a mess. And I felt like
(23:34):
it's an act of complete disloyalty. And you know, especially
it's it's like the guy that goes no disrespect and
says something disrespectful. That's what he did when he goes like, oh,
you know, I I the first thanks to Jeanie. I
love it. I love her like a sister. And then
he just napalms the place. Um but I don't know
if you think it didn't do damage. Okay, I'm I'm
just intrigued. I'm not saying that, like I just don't know,
(23:57):
like you out of its own, you know, like at
this point, I mean, I think everybody knows it's dysfunctional.
I think there's also been this thing going on for
years that like Jennie Buss is gonna come to the
rescue and solve all their problems, and that hasn't been
the case at all. And if she's trying to appease
a bunch of different people to make people happy, that's
usually the worst way of going about trying to be
(24:18):
a leader. I mean, it's really tough to to lead
and and play kate everyone, but Magic to think about you,
you have an ego. I have an ego. You have
to have any ego to do his talk show thing
for as long as he's done it. If I were
Magic Johnson, I would have a massive ego. I mean
it'd be it'd probably annoying to be around me. And
I think Magic has an he has a right to
have that kind of ego. So I felt like his
(24:41):
his first take appearance was about him protecting his image
to Lakers fans because he bolted. I mean, it was
a really weird and, let's face an unprofessional way to
do it. He didn't leave member his excuse for that
impromptu conference and like, hey, I'm resigning to the Lakers,
And he said he didn't want to tell Jennie Buss
to her face. She was afraid he would talk about it. No,
(25:02):
he was mad, and if if Planka really was dumping
on him in a disrespectful way to his superior. Then
that's on Planka and Magic should be mad about that.
I think we all have to kind of remind ourselves
what the structure this is gonna be. Magic was going
to be the franchise space. He was going to be
that rock star who could talk to other stars in
the NBA and get the meetings that the Lakers weren't getting,
which didn't make any sense. So when market Soldiers decides
(25:24):
he doesn't want to meet with you in free agency,
that's a major problem. So they move on from cup check.
They bring in a rock star. We knew that, you know,
Magic wasn't gonna be working, you know, every one of
these lower conferences, conference championship tournaments, Like, he wasn't gonna
be doing any that stuff. And I think that was okay.
So then if he was gonna get ripped for not
doing the things I don't think any of us everybody's
gonna do from the beginning, I could I could see
(25:44):
him being upset about it, But I don't know why
they did the signings they had after it didn't make
any sense. After Lebron, they tried to say, we need
to play in a different way. Lebron was gonna play
the way he wants to play, and that's gonna be
him dissecting the game in the half corps and then
they add all these other pieces. That day, his trade
wasn't gonna happen because New Orleans just wasn't going to
do it because of their ownership issues. So I think
(26:05):
some of the criticism is unfair. But I thought Monday
was more about him trying to protect his image than
it was. I mean, you did go after the Lakers, obviously,
but I think he was doing that in self preservation way.
I I completely agree, but you know, doing that has ramifications.
Do you think it keeps Is that what keeps Kyrie
from coming? And you know they had a strained relationship,
(26:26):
but is that what keeps Kyrie? Or that what keeps
you know, pick said superstar from considering the Lakers? Or
do you think that has nothing to do with what
what play? What a player decides. I really think the player.
I mean, if players still want to go to the
Knicks after what James Dolan has done, then I still
(26:48):
don't think it's as impossible as everybody makes it out
to be for the Lakers, and people close on one
of these guys because there's going to be somebod who
respects Lebron and says, let's do this. And for all
those no one wants to go play with Lebron. Maybe
it's true, but I need more than more the offseason
of information to know that nobody wants to go play
with him. And what was it last year? It was
it was Durant staying in Golden State, Paul George staying
(27:10):
in Oklahoma City, and then them not training for Kauai.
That's three guys and there was only one that we
felt like the United chance with and that might be
more of a Polinka problem than it was a magical
problem in Paul George staying in Oklahoma City. So if
they whiff on a summer with ten different moving parts
here like this summer is going to be, and if
they don't add anybody, then then I'm willing to say, yeah,
(27:33):
this whole thing the disaster. No one's will to play with.
Nobody wants to go to the front office. But I
just don't think if the the Knicks of the best example,
if the Knicks can still get guys in free agency,
if they're actually gonna land Durant, then maybe we're overrating
the negative impact of these Laker stories tend to agree
with you. But we'll see. We'll see exactly what then
the Knicks are. And I do wonder if Durant at
(27:56):
some point, because he's so prone to react seem to
other people's reactions social media or just his friends, at
some point, does he get a nutrious friends like you're
gonna go play for James Dolan, like say, maybe I
shouldn't play for James Dolan. I almost feel like he's
that open to suggestion. I always wonder, like, I know
Anthony Davis is pretty impressible, and that's how I thought
(28:18):
he get himself into this frontblem Like I just I
just know he's he's a one as far as his basketball,
but I think he's uh too. And I don't like
some people are two's in the office and doesn't mean
they they can't do their job, but it doesn't mean
they're awesome. It just means that I think Davis is
still young and would would help, like would would perform
a Kyrie or a Durant to be kind of the
(28:39):
face of the franchise. And although all these guys are
kind of funny in the way they do this right,
they struggle for a few years ago. I don't want
to do this by myself, and then they have to
shine or share that shine and spotlight with somebody else.
They're like, you know, I kind of want my own thing,
and you know, they just keep changing their minds all
the time. But I I, I don't know if Durant,
I don't know if the could could get really close
(29:02):
to your life first and then swing this back to
saying I want to stay in Golden State, or now
I need to think about the Clippers, because it's just
felt like New York this whole time. But it could be.
You know, we've been guilty of this in the past.
We'll start repeating each other. We haven't figured out one.
We don't know. Anthony Davis plays where next year? I'll say,
the Knicks, how are you Irving plays where next year?
(29:22):
I don't know? Good luck? Good luck with him? That's
not Dutch, right. If there was a gun to my
head and they said you gotta guess, like I can't,
I can't read them. Kevin Rant plays where next year?
I hate the same I have better information. I have
not about information. It's about gut Field. You just got
(29:42):
back from Chicago. You're you know you're doing everybody. I
didn't hear the Clippers as much, but that doesn't mean,
you know, I didn't talk to all thirty teams and
then everyone went through five in the depth chart for officers.
So uh, if nothing, none of the information has been
and that's what that's what really scares me about this
stuff is I do think the NBA has has you know,
(30:06):
everybody likes to gossip, and when nothing has been new
for the months, that's always a sign. I mean it's
like I don't maybe everybody's just repeating each other. No, oh,
he's just going to the next Yeah, that's a done deal.
Like everyone's eyes in the next next. Done, It's done,
it done. Now if I knew, the Golden State was
kind of loud, like, I don't think Clay is going anywhere, okay,
and that's based on conversation. I don't understand what this
(30:27):
Clay is gonna leave. Things keeps coming up, but I
don't feel that same sense of confidence out of Golden
State and retaining Duran. So that's why I think he
is leaving. But I'm always getting nervous when I'm like him.
It's been since in January. Nobody said anything new or interesting.
He's Ryan Roschillo. Check out the Dual Threat podcast or
on the Rigor or the Ryan Russillo podcast. Good stuff, dude,
(30:48):
Let's talk soon. Be sure to catch live editions so
the Doug dot Leap Show weekdays in noon eastern three
pm Pacific. John Mintelcoff joins us he's got the Three
and Out podcast and he heard podcast network John. Uh.
Let's start with the beef between Antonio Brown and Ben Rothzburger.
Big Ben's try to apologize. I was wrong, you were right.
(31:09):
I was too mean. I was too tough on Antonio Brown.
Antonio Brown wants none of it. And he's also not
showing up for O T A s. Why why is
he still better? He got a new contract out of
new home. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess
he just hate is real, you know. And maybe Antonio
is just really that petty. He did in fairness to
Antonio because I kind of crushed him yesterday for not
showing up. He did show up today. I don't know
(31:33):
why he wasn't there yesterday, but he was there today. Uh.
And maybe Big Ben. You know, just as you get older,
you try to mature a little bit. You know, if
you want to look on the glass half fold, maybe
he is being genuine with this. Maybe he's just completely
being fraudulent and wants to look good as Antonio. It's
easy to say right when AB's gone. Um, you know,
(31:54):
I just I'm kind of tired of this story, you know.
I'm just I'm gonna be fascinated to see if A. B.
And Gruden can get along once the actual season comes.
And I think if history shows anything, Ben's probably gonna
be just okay, or I mean okay, because he's had
turnover for years at wide receiver and produced. Okay. So
I look at Antonio Brown did show up today. Odell
(32:17):
Beckham Jr. Showed up once they've had five workouts. Let's
start with O. B J. Now, Uh, Antonio Brown at
least played all but the last game of last season.
Odell Beckham Jr. Did not, And he's also in a
new home in a new offense. Were you critical of O.
B J not showing up? Yeah, I mean I thought,
I thought O. B J. Levian and then even yesterday Antonio.
(32:37):
We'll see if Antonio, if he makes the rest of
the month. It's it's so easy to show up. I
was at nine ors o t A practice yesterday. I
when I worked in the NFL, I had to be
in the building. It's like a three day work week.
You get there at breakfast, you go to meetings for
a couple of hours, you left what you're gonna do anyway,
and then you go on the field for about yesterday's
Kyle Shanahan's practice was like an hour and twenty minutes.
(33:00):
I mean it was. It's the country club version of
football now because of the c b A and just
in general, the off season has always been like it's
so easy. There's just I don't understand why these guys
just don't show up. It's just it's a bp F
bastball for everyone. You know, in the other two sports
and baseball and basketball, there's not really an off season
(33:20):
like this because in basketball, you know, you can just
play a pickup game. In baseball, they just play in
other leagues or whatever if you want to in the winner.
In football, you kind of need to play with your
teammates to kind of perfect your craft, right if you're
a wide receiver, whatever position you're in. So I just
I'm always baffled when guys don't show up, especially Levian
Lebian did not have one other offer even close to
(33:43):
what the Jets gave him, So the Jets threw him
a lifeline financially, Big Time doesn't owe it to them
a little bit just to show up. Again, these aren't
double days, This isn't the Junction Boys, Doug. It's pretty easy.
And like every like, every part of the negative reputation
(34:04):
that they have only gets earned even more so, And honestly,
doesn't it hurt future guys who try and follow the
Levy on Bell or the Antonio Brown or the Odell
Beckham junior path. And like, if I'm running a team,
like dude, look look at these guys. Look at how
they react. Even when they do get that lifeline, they
(34:24):
still kind of spit in our face. Why would I
give him that lifeline? I mean, it's crazy. And I
I wanted the Niners to trade for Odell Beckham, And
you know, would he have shown up. Let's say this,
let's say the Rams or the not team like the
Niners had traded for him. Would he still not have
shown up? Because I fall him on Instagram He's working
out at SC so clearly he doesn't want to be
in Cleveland. I think that's pretty clear, right, not necessarily
(34:46):
for the team, but just being in the state of
Cleveland in the off season. I'd be shocked if he
shows up to anything for Levian. It's like, Levian, You're
in New York. You know it's not that bad. You
can't I I don't get it. And I saw the
list of other around, like Antonio Callaway, like what is
that guy doing? I mean, why aren't you at practice?
Jarvis Landry is now he kind of fall in the
(35:07):
Odell like why should I be there anyway? Not not
an ideal kind of the way it's played out so
far from the Browns. I agree with you, totally agreed.
Doug Gotlich show here on Fox Sports Radio. UM, oh,
what are your thoughts on what what New England has
done here with Julian Edelman, um extending his deal? That
that makes it? Is that is that Julian Edelman learning
(35:29):
from Wes Welker and going like, I'm not gonna fight
this thing at the end of my career. I'm gonna
just end end this thing in New England. Yeah, I
think that Edelman has always liked Bill a lot more
than Welker. It feels like Edelman has been a little
bit of just a better soldier. Like he he thrives
in that environment where Welker, you know, had some kind
(35:49):
of pretty public but it heads and said some things.
Him and Bill just weren't always on the same page.
It's kind of felt always like the opposite with Julian,
even more than remember even last year with Gronk. Gronk
was kind of mad at at Bill and obviously Tom was.
It doesn't feel like Julian's ever had a problem with
the Patriots of anything. It's very loyal to them, uh.
I mean, hell, he might look at them as like,
(36:11):
if it wasn't for them, I might have been just
some you know, seventh round pick that washed out of
the league really fast. He's taken. I remember the last
daily signed was much lower than market value. I think
he values what they give him. You know, they made him,
I mean, an absolute legend in that city, multiple time champion.
So if you make if you take a little bit
(36:32):
lower of a deal. I didn't even see the numbers,
but let's say it's a couple of million less than
he could get somewhere else. What he's worth in that
city for the rest of his life and even just
around football. I mean, when it's all said and done,
who's to say they don't win another championship these next
couple of years. He's a four time champion. You know what,
You've been to these events with these guys. There's a
big difference. When you walk in and you've never won anything,
(36:54):
and you walk in and you've got three or four ranks.
I mean, that guy just stands out in the room.
So Edelman's earning power the red up to his life.
And clearly Julian is really tight with Tom and I
give him a lot of credit for having the self
awareness of you don't always have to live in the
short term. I mean the big picture of earning potential
when you're a part of something like this, and I
see in my own backyard with the Warriors, you know,
(37:14):
these guys are gonna be made men in the Bay
Area forever, you know. And obviously they are all making
a ton of money. It's a little different football, But
I give Edelman a lot of credit for kind of
figuring that out. What do you think we were discussing
this early? What do you think Bobby Wagner's value is
people always try to like you know, crushed linebacker's value.
(37:35):
I think the top guys. I mean, Keithley has battled injuries,
but when he's been on the field, historically he's been
one of the best players in the league when every
game he's played. So to me, he's always been worth
If you're paying Khalil Mack twenty million dollars a year,
I got no problem paying my middle linebacker close to
that if I think that, you know, if I value
that guy, high character guy, and he checks all those boxes,
(37:58):
I mean I have no problem paying a huge money.
I mean, as long as I think he's gonna be
able to stay healthy and I don't think his body's
breaking down. I would imagine what he's twenty at the
end of the season, maybe thirty. So I mean the
age is somewhat of a factor, but I mean what
he means to that team, He's another guy that you know,
at times, Richard and Earl and Cam and Michael Bennett,
(38:19):
it always felt like they kind of butted heads with
the program. That's never been an issue for him. I mean,
he's he's kind of been Pete's guy and and rightfully so,
I mean he's just it's been a perfect marriage for
both of them. I would if I was them, have
no problem giving him a massive deal. That's John Middlcoff
joining us former NFL scout. Of course, you here him
on his three and Out podcast? Are the Herd podcast
(38:40):
now works Doug gotlip show here on Fox Sports Radio.
Did you see the picture of the first round draft
picks from last week? Yeah? Okay, yeah, So they have
the jerseys on and there's Hollywood Brown who's listed it.
Do you think he's standing on tippy toes? Though? Possibly possibly?
(39:00):
I mean, who among us hasn't at certain times too? Okay?
But then next to him is Kyler Murray and Cayler
Murray appears to be shorter than Hollywood Brown. Like, look,
do I think it matters at the end of the day.
Probably not, But I I don't buy that he was
really five ten when I've been told by a lot
of people he's always been five eight and change and
(39:23):
suddenly pops up at five ten when they measurement the combine. See.
My biggest issue with him over the whole draft period
was never his heights, because I think if you just
watched him on TV in the fall, you knew he
was tiny, you know, whether he's five eight and three
quarters or five ten flat, it's he's just really short.
To me, it was the weight, and you know, I
never felt like he was actually two oh five he
(39:43):
when I just watched him on TV, it felt like
he was playing in the one eighties. And then he
refused to run, you know, I mean, is he gonna
play this season? Because again, I mean I think it's
pretty clear he's probably not exactly five ten, But is
he gonna play this season a in the NFL? Or
is he gonna be able to play at two whatever?
Still be that fast? Because at the end of the day,
you can't avoid a lot of hits when you're that quick.
(40:05):
But some guys are gonna get you. And when they do,
when Aaron Donald falls in, you know, or the Forest
Buckner for the diners, I mean, those guys are plus
pounds and huge and coming at you at warp speed.
So my bigger issue is just the is the girth
is his size not necessarily his hype? Yeah, I mean
that's a it's a bit. He got ragged alled a
couple of times, uh, playing in the college football playoffs,
(40:27):
and that's against college kids. What happens when an NFL
defensive lineman just touches him. Right Seattle. I mean you
look at the way Seattle plays defense, regardless who's playing.
And last year a bunch of new players, they hit
you so hard. Like to play for Pete Carroll, you
have to be such a physical player that that. I
mean just it's just a physical division. I mean, I'm
at Niner practice yesterday. I mean Richard, and this is
(40:49):
why I crushed. These guys are not going to practice
Richards just chilling. It's so easy for these guys. But
Richard during the season. You know, when Kyler Murray comes
out and if Richard's playing corner, he's one of the
hardest hitting corners in the history of the NFL. All
I'll tell you this, he ain't five ten. He will
molly wap you. And so what's gonna happen when Kyler
meets Richard Sherman. They's not even just the d lineman, right,
some of these some of these defensive backs that will
(41:11):
throw their body around. That's gonna be fascinating to see.
Like does he play sixteen games next year unencumbered by
any injuries? That I don't know. The the Oklahoma drill
is going the way of the DODO. Is that going
to change football? I don't think I've been to a
lot of training camp practices, not everywhere in the NFL
the last several years, but I don't you don't even
(41:31):
see the Oklahoma drill. I I don't think it's like
a huge part of NFL football anyway. I think it's
a much bigger bigger deal in college because once you
get to the NFL, especially once the guys played in
the NFL, his toughness or whatever is kind of established.
And it's probably something that happened more in the eighties
and nineties, maybe even the early two thousand's. But I
(41:52):
never saw it when I worked in the NFL for
coach Read and Andy runs a pretty physical training camp.
It's more like goal line drills and stuff like full
team just one on one goal or Oklahoma. I think
you see it a lot more in college when you
have an eighteen nineteen year old guy and you know
that guy that he's replacing went to the NFL, and
you're trying to see what you have because you don't
have preseason games. So I don't think it affects NFL
(42:15):
football at all, or even practice at all. How much
will it affect NFL football The that the owners gave
the Competition Committee to go ahead today to decide whether
to refine the new rule allowing replay challenges involving past interference.
What what? How do you think this changes the league?
Do you think? I mean, is it now all of
a sudden we're gonna have those flags in the last
two minutes to right? But to me, it doesn't unless
(42:38):
you're adding challenges. If you add things they can challenge,
it doesn't necessarily slow or speed up the game. If
that you still have the same amount of challenge flags.
Right to me, the bigger story would be if they've
added you can challenge holding, you can challenge p I,
you can challenge whatever. And they've also you get two
extra challenge flags, because right now what you have to
(42:59):
and you get one wrong, you lose one. Well, what
if you've doubled that? To me, that that would be
a bigger deal. I don't mind being able to challenge
even subjective plays like past interference, which I think some
would argue many of them that we see on Sundays
are not pretty obvious, and I think those are the
ones that would be challenged. You think I mean, there
there would probably be some you know, kind of coin
(43:20):
flip ones challenge too, for sure, but if you still
if the number of challenges stay the same, I don't
think it really affects it. I think it's kind of overblown.
It's fun for us to talk about, and it's a
main story because there's not much going on, but I
think in reality it's not gonna have as big an
impact as we think. Awesome stuff. John Mintelcoff joining us.
By the way, John, did did you enjoy Aaron rodgers
(43:41):
breakdown of Game of Thrones and why he didn't like
Game of Thrones? Uh? Finale? Well, I'm not a I'm
not a huge Game of Thrones guy, Doug, I admit
me neither. But I do think it's interesting guys are
complaining about how how realistic the conclusion of a series
which involves dragons. Well, he would somewhat invested, right because
he was in the show clearly a die hard. I
(44:04):
wish Aaron, who's clearly a really smart guy, would just
act like that more often and be more fun about football.
I think, I mean, think of what a rock star
he'd be if he just engaged a little more like that.
Instead of always kind of taken the other route. I
mean that was I mean, he's clearly got a big
time personality if he was willing to open up and
just talk, but he doesn't do that whenever. If you
(44:24):
asked about Mike McCarthy or or his new coach, he's
not gonna talk like that. Talking about Game of Thrones.
He was just he was outstanding. It was one of
the best two minute bites of his career. Yeah. No,
he'll talk about hoop like that. I don't talk about
other things. It is. It is something about football. What
do you think? What do you think of Juwan Howard
two Michigan men now with Harbor and him at Michigan. Um,
I'm interesting. I'm intrigued. I mean, like, look, I actually
(44:46):
like their process. I thought the guys they talked to,
I mean the fact that the Big Ten had no
black head coaches and they talked to all guys that
are accomplished. You know, I'm sure they reached out to Shotgun.
He he passed, U ed Cooliett Providence is a gem,
so is Laval Jordan, who used to be there as
an assistant. You know, I don't think it's an easy
(45:07):
and easy job because you're following a guy who's basically
considered a saint and so he can't break rules. And
you lost all your players from last year, and you
lost your best recruit Jalen Wilson, who dcommitted and got
out of his letters. So I don't think it's an
easy job. Look, if he hires a good staff and
he's invested in it, there's no reason that he can't
be good. Just the question is does he understand it's
(45:27):
a it's a job, you're gonna have to work hard.
But he and Stack coming back from pros to college.
I think that's a good thing for the sport. Panties,
Panti's crushing and recruiting, crushing, crushing and recruiting. It's good
to have a kind a new generation of guys who
played and start in the game coming back to college
when there is kind of an overarching narrative that people
are trying to get out of the college game, and
I think this proves it to be a little bit false.
(45:49):
So we'll see. We'll dog have a good day. I
talked to you later, but you two brother, that's John
Middlecoff joining us does an outstanding download his podcast. I do.
It's called three and out. You learn a ton about
the National Football League. Sports Radio has the best sports
talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows
at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I
Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live.
(46:11):
What if I told you Draymond Green has had a
bigger effect on the change of the NBA. There there's
always been those glue guys on great NBA teams always.
You know, Dennis Rodman was a glue guy and two
different it's actually three different NBA championship teams. People forget
(46:32):
when Dennis Robin was the worm and he was in Detroit.
He was the most ridiculously talented defender and rebounder of
the league had ever seen. He could, like Draymond, guard
positions one through five, and then he transformed himself into
the best rebounder in the league and was still an
incredible defender. But this was at a time in the
(46:55):
league in which he didn't really guard centers. He was
too small, and he didn't really switch off into guarding
point guard. That wasn't out worked. Of course, did the
same thing in San Antonio, and like Dennis, there's a
reason Dennis Robins the Hall of Famer rightfully. So what
Draymond Green has added is one an offensive skill, the
(47:19):
ability to pass, handle the ball, shoot some and suddenly
his shooting has taken off. Here in the playoffs, he's
not really a post score, but you know, you can
throw it to him down there and he'll be an
active passer. But the ability to guard one through five
at six ft six and guard these point guards changes everything.
(47:43):
You don't need to be put a big stiff out
there when you can shut everybody down. You don't need
a rim protector when your center can guard the point guard.
I oh yeah. By the way, Draymond Green is a
pretty good shotblocker, so too is Kevin Durantz. One of
the reasons that they have rim protection even when Looney's
not on the floor, Bogut's not on the floor. It's
(48:08):
not that point forward hasn't previously existed. It's that point
center has not until Draymond Green. And while the league
continues to search for more scoring lead guards, we have them.
We have a bunch of them. They Lillard is different
than Harden, is different than steph is different than Trey Young,
(48:30):
is different than Kemba is different than Kyrie. All of
those guys are not traditional point guards, but point guard
ish who can score, who can pass, who can take
over a game offensively. We like to make it out
like we haven't seen anything like Steph Kouran. It's true,
but there are other kind of versions of him which
(48:51):
are interesting. There's no other Draymond Green. They tried to
make p J. Tucker into Draymond Green, and he got
exposed when the Warriors had to go smaller and had
to play kind of their old style. Like he he
looked like a guy who could only really guard Kevin Durant,
(49:16):
whereas Draymond showed the ability in this last series to
be able to guard Myers Leonard and then this Cantor
as well as Damian Lillard and c J McCollum, Like,
we talked so much about stuff, and we should because
we are in love with just the way he is,
(49:38):
the shots he makes, the past he makes, and the
way in which he bounces around, and I mean, it's
it's an unbelievable thing to watch. And because of Draymond's antics,
he usually gets no passes, and rightfully so, but I
(49:58):
believe if you watched it with a basketball guy and
if you looked historically and you're like, when did the
league change? When did it go from you don't need
a center anymore? It's when it was like the graphs
and they come together. It's when Draymond Green and the
Warriors hit. It's when they go like, hey, we don't
(50:23):
need Andrew Bogan, we got Draymond. We don't need JaVale McGee,
we got Draymond. We don't need DeMarcus Cousins. We got Draymond.
I believe that he he has invented a position that
has dramatically and will dramatic will continue to change the NBA,
(50:44):
more so even than Steph Curry, because Curry's style has
been done before. Usually it was off the bench scores.
Bobby Jackson used to score like that. Right, we've seen
um Um Crawford. Jamal Crawford look steps a much better
player than Jamal Crawford. But it's the same kind of
(51:04):
thing where you don't really have your one year two whatever.
You just come in and get buckets and staff can
run a team. But he's a bucket getter and he
gets he gets him and it's bam bam bami, Like
well what just what just happened, and from range and
going right and going left like he's an all time great.
This is not me in any way diminishing Steph Curry's
(51:26):
offensive prowess, but there are other guys that play in
some ways similar to him and have played that similar,
maybe to less success. I've never seen a Draymond Green
who can play all five positions at both ends of
the floor and be effective at all five