Best of The Doug Gottlieb Show: 06/11/2019

Doug discusses game 5 of the NBA Finals after Kevin Durant suffers another injury and tells you what this means for the rest of the series and what will happen in the off season. He talks to Ryen Russillo from The Ringer about Raptors head coach Nick Nurse and why he called a timeout late in the 4th quarter. Plus, FS1 NBA Insider and FSR host Chris Broussard joins the show to debate whether or no Durant came back too early and what effect this has had on free agency. 

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlive
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for the Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best

(00:21):
of the Doug got Leave Show on Fox Sports Radio. Boom,
What Up America, Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio, Coming
to you from the Sunny City of Angels, Los Angeles, California,
Hoping you are having an outstanding day. What a crazy,

(00:43):
crazy night in the NBA Everything changed twelve minutes into
the game. Everything you know and thought. What happened this
offseason change. We'll get to that, but plus I will
tell you what what I am led to believe, and
you haven't heard this anywhere else lead to believe probably

(01:03):
took place before Kevin Durant took the floor and while
he was playing up until the moment, that faithful moment
where he planted and we've by now you've probably seen
the replay, something ruptured in his calf. It looks. It
looks like a torn achilles tendon. The Doug Gollup Show
is brought to you by Farmers. At Farmers, we've seen

(01:24):
almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything.
When it's game time, have an experienced player help you
stay here the game, put their experience into play at
Farmers dot com. Farmers. So here's the here's the challenge, guys.
And this is what I I UM, I pride myself
on every show on sports radio should be different. Well,

(01:46):
we don't do here. I don't like to do is
what you call survey radio, right, which is like, all right,
top five most impactful injuries in a championship game or series.
Brandon Cooks from the Super Bowl two years ago. Rob
Gronkowski pick an injury that he's had, like you kind

(02:07):
of go through the Isaiah Thomas rolling his ankle, Magic
Johnson pulling. Is that. No, we don't do that. And
once you get to three o'clock Eastern, twelve o'clock Pacific,
you've heard a lot of the details. So let me
give you a different way of looking at this. Um.

(02:28):
Most everyone is pretty sure that Kevin Durant tore his
achilles tenant, which means he'll be out for nine months
and potentially for twelve months after after all rehab is done.
But uh, the nine months is interesting. And I'll get
to the obvious part of why in a second. And

(02:51):
he was he was out there plan last night and
he had been cleared to play, and the reports were
that he was told he could suffer no more severe injury. Okay,
but even that statement is loaded. So here's what I did.
I have three or four friends that are surgeons. Um,

(03:12):
one is that hand and wrist and hand wrist finger surgeon.
The other three are our knee and hip surgeons, and
one in fact is by my estimation, like, look, I
don't grade these things because I've known him for my
almost my three quarters to seven eighths of my life.

(03:36):
I've known him. Um, he is a renowned surgeon. He
actually did my mom's knees. So he does Achilles tender repairs,
he does a c L repairs, l c L, all
that different stuff. And so instead of boring you with
the are why did the Canadian fans boo? You know why?

(03:57):
Because we don't have the market ordered on a holes.
Apparently there's a holes in Canada. Yeah, they saying, oh, Canada,
and it was beautiful, and I was like, man, getting
kind of misty in here, Canada. But the idea of
them cheering is and I'll get to this later, almost
almost a feeling of respect towards Kevin Durant, if you

(04:18):
really want to get down to it. And yeah, look
there's dbs everywhere, not just in Newport Beach or in
Manhattan Beach, or in Greenwich, Connecticut, or in Miami Beach.
Like there's DBS up in Toronto quite obviously as well.
But you had to ask yourself, how does happen? Like

(04:39):
the Golden State Warriors, whatever you think of teams and
their desire to win, they would never want to put
Kevin Durant in a situation where this could happen. Take
a listen to Bob Myers after the game. I don't
believe there's anybody to blame, but I understand this world,
and if you have to, you can blame me. And

(05:08):
let me tell you something about Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant
loves to play basketball, and the people that questioned whether
he wanted to get back to this team, we're wrong.
So my question it was, and this is what I
asked all my doctor friends, how could they how can
they not have seen this? Like, how did this happen?
Did it have? I wondered? Did it happen? Because the

(05:29):
calf was weakened and that put extra stress and the
achilles tennant was he Achilles tendant already torn? A couple
of NFL friends I know it texts me like, dude,
he had a partial tear and that thing, just that
thing just blue, That's what happened. So my friend who
does these surgeons, who who is very well regarded, told
me that m r s can be difficult to interpret

(05:52):
sometimes that he doesn't even get them, and what he
relies on is the physical exam. You know, where they
pull in your foot and they try and find a
spot in the back of your foot to see where
the pressure is. What and what happened? And when Kevin
Durant first did it, he turned around real quick looking
for the guy who kicked him. And everyone who tears
their achilles said, it feels like somebody kicked them. And

(06:13):
the remember Reggie, Reggie Miller was doing the game and
he's like, man, that looked like an Achilles tendon, right,
So I said, well, I can't Achilles tend don't they
just tear? Right? And if they don't tear, can you
do you not see him in an m r I S. Yeah,
they can cleanly tear if they were to chop like
a chopped rope in half. If that happens, it's easy
to see. On an m r I there's two free

(06:35):
edges and they're separated by fluid, he said, But that
kind that's uncommon. What happens more often is they tear
so that each end kind of looks like a mop.
In those situations, m r I s will show bridging
tissue with no apparent gap, and sometimes there's not much bleeding,
so it may look not as bad on as it

(06:58):
is on the m r I. It can heal in
those situations, but it takes much longer than he gave it. Also,
the calf muscle is not as strong, so if they
knew it was torn, they'd have likely done surgery. So
the idea was this, how does this happen? An underwhelming
MRI I and everyone's desire to please, don't let it

(07:22):
be The Achilles factor played into the diagnosis and decision
to treat it like it was a strain right it
it becomes um, you know, like you want to speak
it into existence kind of thing, a self fulfilling prophecy.
My doctor friend said he thought this all along. Pictured
the poor doctor who was probably deep down new and

(07:43):
sweating bullets since it happened. He probably said he thought
it could be torn, but not certain options to explore
and repair surgically or to treat it like it's strain,
see if it gets better. Surgery, regardless of how badly
it was torn, would require him to be out for
the season. Wishful thinking and wishful judgment. Now it's black

(08:05):
and white back in nine months, teams will still line up.
Because of his body type and because of his skill set,
he actually should come back good as new in in
fifteen months, even if it's playing in nine months. That's
his prognosis. And it's fascinating because there there is a
There are people who say, how dare the warriors put

(08:28):
him out there when you can put him in harm's way,
and like, look, it's pretty obvious that he, by most
people's estimations professionals, he had torn it previous. He had
already torn it right, and the question is was how severely?
And those things really honestly, unless it's a very very
very slight slight strain, and strain, by the way, is

(08:50):
a there's some part of it as torn, like you're
gonna have to go in there and do surgery anyway,
and once you do surgery, you're going to be out
for the year. So I'm not sure they actually lied
to Kevin Durant. I don't believe they did. They probably said, look,
if it's torn, it's gonna tear anyway, and you're gonna
have to have surgery anyway, and if it's not, then

(09:14):
you're gonna be fine. Regardless of which. What an incredible
night like, Oh Canada was emotional. Kevin Durant was awesome.
They did have complete control. Then the air was let
out of the building. After this weird he goes down
with an injury and all of a sudden, Canadian fans
are like cheering that he's hurt. Just was an awful look,

(09:38):
and then the game kind of lost a lot of
its feeling and its juice, and the Warriors somehow maintained control,
and then the Raptors had the thing one and they
called back to back time outs and then Golden State
comes storming back has to lead. There's a weird calling
to Marcus Cousins, and then you know, they double team
Kawhi Leonard. Kyle Lowry gets a shot in the corner,
he gets blocked, bricochets off the backboard, and now the

(09:59):
Warriors are back in a series. They got a home
court game, they got one more game at least that
oracle and a chance to ride on the emotion of
not having Kevin Durant. And they continue to figure out
how to win games on the road without Kevin Durant.
And you just to sit there think yourself, Kawhi Leonard
might not be all that healthy. Meanwhile, the off season
thrown completely up into the air. You think Kevin Ran

(10:20):
probably opts into his deal to make thirty one point
nine million dollars, Does he come back at the end
of next season? Disease at the entire year free agency changes.
What an incredible thing, and all because of I guess
what would be wishful thinking? Right, some sort of wishful

(10:42):
thinking and hopeful prognosis which may not be as deceptive
and devious as many in the media believe. Look, do
I think it was an f up? It feels like
way right? You send a guy out there and thought
he strained his calf. Everybody thought he towards achilles, and
now he did terris achilles. But the fact is that

(11:02):
had he previously torn as achilles, which it looked like
he had, he was gonna have to have surgery anyway.
This was Brian Winhorse after the game on what it
means to the NBA. The NBA just changed. Next year,
there's teams crawling all over themselves to get to rant.
There's gonna be this pecking order. There's teams making trades
to clear salary cap space. The thought was he was
going to be available on the market. The in addition

(11:24):
to this series, the entire NBA just changed. I mean
it was I mean, like again, I don't want to
be I don't want to be a It's not that
when the Challenger exploded. It's not when Kennedy was shot.
It's not when Reagan was shot. It's not when September

(11:46):
eleventh happened. But for in sports, the whole offseason was
going to change the NBA. The Nicks had cleared out
space for the thinking they were getting Kevin Durant and
now the Nets were players, and maybe maybe the Clippers,
probably not the Lakers, or would he stay? And now

(12:06):
he stays? So does anybody go to the Knicks? Is
Kyrie alone with the Nets? What I like? It? Just
it's crazy. And guys that have taken short term deals
in the past, do they change their mind and say,
you know what, I'm gonna take as many years, as
much money as possible. Because if it can happen to
Kevin Durant, if it can happen in de Marcus Cousins,
it can happen to me. But it feels like and

(12:31):
again this is from a professional opinion, a wishful, hopeful
diagnosis and holding your fingers. God, I just hope he
keeps it together through the series. It lasts eleven minutes
and fifty seconds and change, and he popped in achilles tendon,
which is still the one injury which is seemingly more
debilitating than any other in sports right now. Be sure

(12:56):
to catch live editions of The Doug dot Leap Show
week days in noon eastern repm Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Ryan Rosilo works
for The Ringer and for ESPN. Check out his podcast,
A Dual Threaten, The Rosillo Show, plus you record a
pod after the game last night with with Bill Simmons. Okay, so, um,

(13:18):
what do you think happened between? Like was this Durant
pushing to play? Was that the team pushing him too much? Like?
How does it happen where a guy plays and clearly
isn't Red. Isn't there a lot going on there? That
was an incredible It wasn't just a game. It was
the dramatic storylines in one night and I felt like
drained after watching it. But if you know Abob Meyers,

(13:41):
if you know Steve Kerr, if you know the Warriors,
the idea that they would force the guy to play
or lie to him about the diagnosis to get him
out there, then you just don't. You just don't know
that team. Like I know, everybody has all the Bob
Meyers jokes, and I would getting texted people who don't
know if being like, man, this guy's really putting on
an act, You're like, oh, this is this is who
he is. Of all those things that I'm comfortable saying,
you know, knowing, not knowing pole, Bob Myers is the

(14:01):
furthest thing from the phony. So you're absolutely right by
the ways we all try to figure out the medical
stuff here. If it's a partially torn achilles, the thing
was going to go anyway, and he needed to get
work on it done anyway. So you know, I don't
know if they misdiagnosed it. I don't know if they
can into some agreement. But Kevin Duran's a thirte year
old man, and if he wants to come back and play,
like we know most of these guys always want to do,
and they feel like he's cleared enough, then what happened

(14:23):
last night is the worst case scenario. It's incredibly important, unfortunate,
but I don't feel like there's this evil thing at
play that everybody wants to expose. It's a it's a
great point you make. I think. I think what we
think of is we think of like Bud Kilmer in
the locker room, inject him in the achilles tendon so
he doesn't feel anything, or he's you know, he's Booby
Miles out there ruining his career. When you know, Kevin,

(14:47):
you want to play. You got Booby wanted to play too, Yes, well,
but Bubo, but the difference is, as you pointed out,
Booby's a kid. This is a grownass man. Right, he's
control of his own destiny. And you know, if he
just says that he ain't right, yeah, there'll be there
there There would be some idiots that would that there
might be some heat, right, but the fact is that

(15:07):
now we know, um you do. If an athlete says
he's not right, he probably isn't right. But he I'm
sure he felt better, he felt fine until he didn't. Um.
It is crazy though, right, Like the guy goes from
the guy goes from yearning for respect, finally gets the
respect that he, uh, he thought he deserved. Then he

(15:29):
hurts himself. Reggie Reggie Miller nailed it right. Everybody's like,
whoa redge? I don't know, but he's like and everyone
on Twitter and social media watching thought he towards killes
tendant and they're like, no, no, no no, no, it's a
calf comes back. Turns out it is an achilles and
we see it blown on national TV. Like, I know,
you're right. There's a bunch of other stuff within the game,
but just that, just this story, the the mercurial storyline

(15:52):
for Kevin Durant in the last two months has been nuts. Yeah,
look about the evil side of it. Though, like, if
somebody wants to believe this, do you really think in
two thousand nine team and I know football players like
football players are all those players of associating, It's like,
guess what you guys do? Get used up? You do?
You know the non quarterbacks? None of yours important to
your team? Is Kevin Durant is JO a basketball team
because of sheer numbers and the fact that we're talking about,

(16:14):
at worst, the second best player in the world. Okay,
but do you really think a Golden State team that
desperately wants to find any way to keep him would
lie to him about the diagnosis and Rich Kleiman, who's
his guy, his manager and all of this stuff, would
sign off on Durant putting himself in a situation where
he absolutely shouldn't be playing. I don't. I don't. Maybe

(16:38):
I'm naive, you know, maybe I just don't know that.
I wake up every day trying to figure out who's
screwing everybody out, and I just can't fathom that this
is this is this as you think we're Durants killing man?
They lie to me, you know, like everybody's out there
doing this, everybody. But there's a lot of people out there,
a lot of players like you know, Durant live to

(16:58):
he's exploiting. Sam Acho is out there going yeah and
other people. This is why you don't trust team doctors. Man.
So I'm sorry Manuel uh Accho, who's a football you know,
a very good perform ProFootball player player in Texas and
and he's out there and Kendrick Perkins like, yeah, this
they lied to you, Like, well, you don't actually know
what was said to kill we don't. You have no

(17:19):
idea what was said to Kevin Duran, zero idea. So
unless you know that they said, and could even the
idea that they said he couldn't hurt him if they
said he could't hurt himself any worse, it's possibly said, Hey,
it might be a partial tear. If it's partial tear,
you gotta have surgery anyway, dude, So just go play
and see what happens, because you're gonna have to go
get cut if it's partial tear, you can have to
get cut in the offseason and miss a year anyway.

(17:42):
And you know, Bill Simmons and I were doing the post,
appreciate saying that, and he was of the opinion, you
know how do you play him twelve first four team.
I've seen trainers since you know, um you know mirror
that appoint like, Hey, if you were going to do
what this is the way to do it? Yes? Do
those guys are all right? But I don't. I don't
know how that's possible. I don't know how well if

(18:03):
he's playing the first six and in the last six
of the first half, the first six and then closed
and six, like, I don't, I don't know how the
minute staggering in a different way would have prevented this
from happening. I also think it's what I hate doing
this as a guy that didn't play in hating basketball
game that anyone ever gave a bleep about. But I
don't care who you are. You can be hurt and

(18:25):
once you get that ball in your hands, you're like,
I'm going, I'm going and imagine being as good as Durant,
Like there was no version of him where he was
gonna say you just sit the screen to feel out
the flow of the game and top shoe and then
once he starts hitting everything, he's like, all right, I'm
gonna put it on the floor, Like you can't do that.
After the fact, saying that he should play the game

(18:45):
differently because he's just He's the reason he is who
he is is because of the way he's wired, and
most basketball players are that way. Um and again, I
know Ryan was solo join aniche download is Dual Threat
podcast or that podcast to do with Simmons a late
last in the ringer. Um, So I do want to
get to the rest of the game. There's a bunch
of other interesting stuff. But in terms of Durant, he's

(19:07):
gotta he's gotta opt in, right, I mean he can't.
You know, he's not going on the market. I'm not
sure about that, I really am not. I mean, the
way the turn through for this is he's thirty. Uh,
he's come back from another pre severe injury where it
looked like he was gonna be out for that entire
year when he came back, and I want a title
because he at one point thought he's done for the year.

(19:28):
It is so hard to get these free that you
can max out a guy in a much like you
can max out a healthier guy that'll like, forget living
in Duran the neighborhood. He doesn't even know the directions
as far as the kind of player he is, So
I would not be surprised if the NIXT team said
you can go and Rickson, we'll just get you for
the three after this year. M hmm. I mean, look

(19:52):
the surgeon and that's I basically, uh kind of quoted
verbatim what he said. He's like, look, he'll be back
in nine months. Teams will still be lining up because
you look at his body type, the way he plays
like I actually think he actually thinks like it won't
affect him like would affect Boogie because Boogie is such
a much bigger man. And though he's and though he
had he's an explosive guy, it's not like he's a

(20:12):
freak guy. So he's not losing a major step. Like
in one calendar year, he should be fine. And you
know in a year and a half, you know he
when he'd be able to start what would be his
second season with the team, Uh, he should be. You know,
now he'll have some he'll have played some more, so
he should be. You know, I'm ready to go, like
almost back to where he is now. I don't know.

(20:34):
I think it's fast. So you you're not sure that
he stays with Golden stated, I mean I guess that's
how we would know how he felt like he was
treated by the Warriors. Would it like if he felt
like they did everything possible, why not just stay and
see if you can come back and play in the playoffs?
Let next year? Um, I don't know that you really
think though, if he opts out and they leaves a
free agency that confirms that he doesn't like the way

(20:56):
the whole interesting would handle because most people aren't leave.
How he's dirty would leave anyway. So I don't know
that you can connected too. I can't tell you you're
wrong because it's a way of really proving it. But
I don't think I would all the same to say
that means he's out. I do think that you're right
about it opening the door for other possibilities like something
Still and I were talking about it. It's really smart,

(21:17):
like ever since lebas I'd doing, he's one of the
ones everybody else just started doing. It's not everybody else,
but a lot of other guys just started out. Year
seven was taking pay cut if the Warriors tens of
millions of dollars in luxury tax payments by taking pay
cuts or less than he could the last two years
and it was like, I'll just be one to one.
I'll be one to one. Now he's had two major injuries, Like,
does he really want to do an opt in for one?

(21:38):
What if they're willing to offer him, does that change something?
Or maybe that Uh, you know guys like Kyrie, you
had two major injuries south of thirty years old, and
you're gonna go, well, you've gotta you've gotta figure out
a way to get every year you can get yourself.
So I don't know if it will change the approach
on how long it wanted do you feel to be
I don't know if golds takes more willing to try

(22:00):
to do something where they feel like they're making it
right with him for what he just went through and
trying to come back and help them win a title.
So there's I've opened to any of these options. But
at this point, you know, it's just all talk radio stuff.
That's fun. President Doug Otlives show here on Fox sport
Trader that that's the voice of Brian Rissela. All right,
I want to get to the free agent stuff and
what we think, what you think happens. You're you're as

(22:20):
tightened as anybody in the world. But I also want
your take on last night's game, because when he was playing,
you're like, dude, the Warriors are going to win the
I was sitting there, going, they're gonna win this series.
He commands so much attention and frees up the other
guys and they're gonna win this series. Right. So then
he gets hurt and they still kind of hold on
for a while, and then the Raptors take the lead late.

(22:44):
People being very critical of the Nick Nurse back to
back time outs after the twelve to run there there
they have a lead. The places on fire. He's trying
to rest Kauhi. Get get Kauai a little bit of
rest uh in the moment? What did you think? I
thought it was terrible. I thought it was terrible in
the moment, and I think you know me well enough,

(23:04):
says a lot of the this guy get out coached.
This guy is terrible, Like like I just always feel
like there's so much going on with the coach, especially
like in football and baseball, where you like, you know,
I don't know that we have all the information and
one days after football games like this guy, just kid,
I'll coach the whole time. And you're like, what specifically
happened that told you that this guy couldn't handle the
coaching decisions of the other guy and almost everyone ever

(23:24):
amp and so having said all those things in the moment,
that time out was atrocious. The justification for it was
as bad like Nick Nurse needed a lie and come
up with something better than what we didn't want to
not use them? What the hell does that mean? And
if quite tired, you know this rest in the game guys,
White paces himself in the course of games. Lebron has

(23:46):
been doing this now for a couple of years. Find
a way to ruin something else so you don't stop
the momentum that's going on in this building. I thought
it was fun. Believe it will be one of those
things and no one will care if to run went
this thing at six or seven to be like, oh yeah,
sure you call that time out. If I come back
from that's going to go down. It's one of the

(24:07):
post absurd moved by a coach who's done a year. Yeah,
I think it was a little bit. I think it
was a little bit over coaching, you know. I I
never and looked their colleague coaches who do that, and
Brad Stevens will do that now where you know they'll
they'll go on a run and they'll set up his
defense and want to get everybody a quick and you know,

(24:27):
get everybody reassigned and what they want to do. But
that place was on fire and it felt like they
were once they did feel like they were one stop away.
So like I'm with you, I generally don't want to
kill somebody. Generally don't for when you call a time
out when you don't, especially in the NBA, because you
knew there's like five time out still coming. But in

(24:49):
that particular case, like it's slammed on the brakes of
some incredible momentum and it felt, like I tweeted at
the time, feels over and then you like call it
time out, like what are you doing? And it was
the Warriors, Doug, And it's the Warriors. Why all I
have that team to regroup mentally, that's the last thing
you want to do. Do you want to do that
against the Bucks? You want to do it against the
Sixers where all this stuff is kind of new, not

(25:11):
the team that's trying to three pet So I didn't
I didn't get it. I mean, this whole game, this
game has taken all of these different dramatic emotional swings,
and you're like, hey, you know what, we're on fire
right now. Kauai is about to clench this thing to
sit a top of the throne. Is the best player
in the world. Hey, why don't we just reset here mentally?
You guys want to just do that for a second. Hey, everyone,

(25:32):
let's just calm down, reset mentally, and you know, crack
the door back open. For a team that's in Golden State,
I just I thought I thought it was I thought
it was over coaching, and I've I've seen enough to
just it's just too too much coaching, all right. That said,
you know, look, Golden States still has the issues of
spacing and scoring and and containing Kauai. Although Kauai is

(25:55):
gas because he's carrying this team. Um, we got another
game in Glenware last time. They think closed up and okay,
like this thing is over, you know, blow this thing up,
blow this building up, and let's let's start anew What
do you think happens now? Can I just ask about
the Quai being gassed? How is he gas? Like if
he's gassed, and what are we doing? They let him
miss the quarter of the season they have at all

(26:19):
times for other people on the floor, they can get
a bucket, which is kind of the overlooked thing about
the way that Toronto roster is constructed. You know, I
wish I had I wish I had pointed out earlier.
But when you see it contrasted with what Cold did
have to put out there, where you feel like at
any time there's three guys who don't have to guard, Like,
why would Kauai I get the exertion in these games,
the anxiety and high stakes, all these different things, But

(26:40):
you know, for all of these rest Warriors out there,
how the hell is Kauie tired? If you're telling me
that he's missing a quarter of the season and the
reasons he's playing as well, it is kind of it
is it's counterintuitive. I would say this like I think
and this is the thing that the Warriors understood about
Kevin Durant, and then I think the Rockets missed on
and frankly, I think Toronto misses on, which is like, look,

(27:02):
Kawaylon is already hitting mid range shots. Kwiler has a
post game right. He started out his life as he
was a basically a big guy as center up until
he got really untill a sophomore year at San Diego State.
He can handle the ball some, but he can really
score down there. And though he's not he's you know,
he's not Lebron as a passer, he's not as bad

(27:22):
and he's improved in terms of his reputation. Like having
him handle the ball every time down the court and
bring it up and beat his man, like, you can
actually get a lot more out of him because you're
gonna have to double him in the post. You've got
to pressure him and you know, do something the same
way that Golden State places where you play in the post,
but you're not necessary trying to score out of that post.
I think that would be less exhausting. But I do

(27:44):
think he's exerting himself. And whether or not he doesn't
have the natural conditioning of other guys, um he has,
he has shown that he is. He is getting tired.
Uh I again, But then then then ELOI goes back like,
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I just I just
think it's worth pointing out that, like we we have
a bunch of people out there that are convinced that

(28:05):
no one should put you over two thousand minutes, but
no one should play over sixty games because I guarantee
if if they cut it this seventy game, then three
years later somebody come up with some paper from some
college scientists could be like actually sixte like, hey, how
about we do this. How about we just we just
start the playoffs and we just see what happens to
make sure everybody has enough rest. I mean they have

(28:28):
by the way, Achilles achilles tendons are not tires. They're
not tires, so we we operate like their tires. You're like, well,
you know, the treads down to you know, a you know,
a quarter of an inch, and that means you gotta
get new tires. And we we act like there's this
minute thing where all of a sudden you get a
certain amount of minutes. And they're like, no, that that's
not how it works with an achilles tendon. It's just
not um. It has to do with the size of

(28:51):
the athlete, how the guy builds his muscle, how he grows.
You know, certain guys are, how their feet are as
much more than then you're right that how many minutes
they have? And I agree with you, like, oh, the
only reason Quay is healthy now is because he's he
sat out like, actually he's not that healthy. It doesn't
have any of that. There's not necessarily a correlation. All right,
let me let me get to this. Okay, So we

(29:13):
don't know with k D what do we know? Like
we started off the year thinking Kyrie was staying. Now
the only thing everybody seems to think they know is
Kyrie is going to Brooklyn. Do we know anything else? Um?
We we I don't think we do, only hit Like okay,
what do we think we knew before? Okay, I don't

(29:34):
know that Duran is gonna to go to the knick Spine.
So just because Kyrie and Katie were talking a Hallway
All Star weekend and they follow each other on Instagram,
which I need a translator for Kyrie's post, but I
you know, we just started going, Okay, well those guys
are there and that's that's fine. Like we were also
doing the real estate thing, like did co I get
a nice two bedroom town house in Toronto? That's aazing

(29:57):
must be staying And I'm like now and He's like,
I don't even know how to use the So I
don't know what you guys are talking about. Uh, if
we did, if we did this game, like, I think
Philly has to keep Butler more than they have to
keep the Bias Harris. They want to keep both, Okay,
But for all us talk about the super Max works,
doesn't work on all the unintended consequences which there have been.
Now maybe we just look back and say, hey, the

(30:17):
super Max works, but it works differently for different people.
Russell Westbrook got the extra money, stayed in the town
and nobody does. He's gonna stand Boom done. Other guys
have said, I don't care about the super Max. I
want to go where fit is. Okay, cool, that's good
for you. If the Bias Harris is the fourth guy
for the Philly for the Philadelphis, only six ers after Butler,
who I think kind of has that that onion quality
to him that you're gonna need in the playoffs that

(30:38):
Simmons certainly doesn't have Palace and Bead has trouble kind
of scoring in some of the late game situations when
he gets gets doubled. As great as he is, like,
I think they needed his toughness. So if you're the
Bias Harris, there's whatever version of the four year Max
work for you doing that, you very well could be
traded next February. Well, maybe it's worth the tea to
get that extra money, or maybe you go, I don't
need the extra money because I don't want to sit

(30:58):
here and be some asset. I'd rather go somewhere else.
So I think it's working differently for all these different people.
So now when we kick that forward, like Anthony Davis saying,
I don't want to fifty million next month, I'm good.
I want to move on. I think writing off the
Lakers is a mistake. There's a pass to the getting
enough assets to pull this thing off. I also think
with the success of Paul George and cau I potentially
Scanting Staying, just the success the Raptors have had, that

(31:21):
it is going to open up the market to other
teams and especially owners that go, well, why don't we
just try Anthony Davis for a year. And it still
includes the box of Celtics, which surprises the hell out
of me. But I think the Celtics are still gonna
be pretty proactive about trying to find a way to
load up to get Davis, and I think they can
put together the best package all the other teams. So
depending on the Davis movement. I think that's connected to

(31:42):
some of these other things. I mean, Kyrie's gone. I
think Butler has to stay. I don't know about Kauai.
I think the Durant thing changed last night, but most
people had impacted his bags. But I don't know that anybody,
like for all these players and we're able with the
bread and you know how much credit am I getting
and all these good things, did any superstar still, even

(32:02):
coming off of that injury, wanted to end up in
New York with that roster without another number two guy? Like,
why would anyone sign up for that just because of
the location. I don't get that one at all. I
don't I don't know the last thing who wins the
series now. I just don't think there's any way that
Gold States defense has been consistent enough. And I hate

(32:23):
ever doubting those guys. I've I've made a living of
being right by not doubting them at any time. But
I I didn't even want to do this because I
don't want to root against them. But I I don't
like Toronto knows who they're gonna be every single night,
and they have shown the toughness despite of what we
saw last night that is really impressive for a do
unit together. Uh, gold State has not been able to

(32:43):
defend these guys consistently and they just lost ALONEI to
who's their best center? So I just don't they're running
out of bodies the worst time. Yeah, I mean it
really is a mass unit. I I actually and and
we gotta go. But I think the those of us
who will say we still think Toronto winning and say, oh,
you're doubting them, like, well, yeah, we're doubting because look
at all the guys they don't have like they We're

(33:06):
not doubting them in full strength. We're just saying at
some point, they just have more healthy bodies than you do,
and they're also pretty damn good and the difference isn't
that close. And when you have those that litany of injuries, Yeah,
we doubt you can complete a task because of health
as the major factor. That's a fair way to put
it in. I know we're gonna leave, but we're both

(33:27):
being guilty of that thing we were talking to the
Twitter responses. We already are going to be there. Toronto
is really good, but it is very hard when it
is due to annoy something is great before it actually happens.
And yeah, there's there's some weird challenges you for gold
to take the reality if the ramps there. I don't
think any of us think that Toronto would be them,
but they don't. And like Gold State can have issues,

(33:48):
but Toronto still can also be really good. And that's
what's happening. Ryan Rissilo. You can see his stuff, listen
to his stuff excuse Me on the Ringer uh the
Dual Threat podcast, as well as when he recorded right
after the game last night with Bill Simmons Downloaded. Ryan,
thanks so much for joining us. Be sure to catch
live editions So the Doug Dot Leap Show weekdays at
noon Eastern three pm Pacific. Let's welcome to Chris Brusar

(34:10):
from Fox Sports One and the Odd Couple. Odd Couples
are great radio show that is uh uh. There's an
hour in between my show and their show. Jonas Knox
and r J Bell have Straight out of Vegas. It's
an hour show, gets your sets of lines for the
night and then Rob Parker, Chris Broussard, Odd Couple. You
can listen to it on satellite radio, listen to it

(34:30):
in your Fox Sports Radio affiliate you can download it
as well. It's outstanding. Chris, what are you led to
believe that Kevin Durant was told about his calf for
achilles before he played last night? Well, you know, we
saw Rachel Nichols of ESPN report that she was talking

(34:53):
when she walked out of the building last night with
Steve Kerr and that he told her. And I have
no reason to doubt her for it. That Kerk kept
saying the doctors told us he couldn't hurt it anymore.
He you know, he couldn't further damage the injury. And
you know you hear that a lot. You can't hurt
it any worse. And so if that's the case, then

(35:17):
I have to you know, everybody's wondering where, if there's
any blame, where should it go. I would have to
look at their medical staff and question that diagnosis because
obviously that wasn't case. And and I can't buy and
I know they're saying it's a totally separate injury. One
was the calf. One was that that that Maybe I

(35:37):
don't know if that's true or not, but I know
there's no way you can tell me that wasn't related
to his prior injury. Here's the other thing quickly about
the medical situation. You know how it goes. Usually before
you're cleared after being out for a long time, a

(35:57):
team will have you practice hard or whatever and then
wait to see how your recovery is the next day.
You you didn't he didn't get a chance to do that,
obviously as the NBA Finals, no team is going hard.
But there was also really no no time given for
him to recover and let's see how he you know,

(36:18):
how he responds the next day. And so there are
a lot of things pointing to the medical staff really
messing this up. Um I talked to a surgeon today
and he said, look, the m R S can be inconclusive,
but that a doctor probably thought probably like you know,

(36:39):
like he said, like, look, you can't really go by
an m R. I. You go by um by you know,
your your own evaluation, and then by what the guy says.
And you know, Kevin Durant said, he said he felt
like he got kicked. That's almost always the sign of
Achilles tendon. So there's at least the chance that they said, hey,
look we think it's a strain, but it might be
partially torn. I it's partially torn, you're gonna have to

(37:00):
get it fixed anyways. He can't do it. If it's torn,
it's gonna pop and you can't do any more damage anyone.
You're gonna have to have surgery at the end of
the year to anyway. Is that is that? Have you
been heard that that's a possibility at all? I have
not heard that. In Kevin Durant's case. I know Isaiah Thomas,
the legendary Isaiah Thomas. You know, he's his career was

(37:21):
essentially ended by an achilles injury. Um, he said that
doctors didn't tell him that. And it's slightly torn and
it's gonna tear anyway, you know, like it's gonna be
get fully torn if you play on it, and there's
if you're rested, it's not gonna heal. So you know,
he played and eventually it did tear. I I mean,

(37:44):
I guess it's possitively. So you're you're saying that in
that case, Durant would have known he had a torn
achilles or slightly torn achilles, and they're just letting it
be put out there that it was a calf injury.
I've known or at least that it's a possibility, right
that it's just very hard to determine that that's a
it's a possibility and is an achilles injury that difficult

(38:08):
to detect. Well, okay, so I'll read this to you.
This is this is my buddy who's a surgeon who
actually fixes them. And I've done this earlier on air
Stuck Ali show here on Fox Sports Radio. He said,
m r I s can be hard to interpret. Sometimes
he doesn't even get them. He realized in the examine
what happened when Durant first did it. He turned around

(38:30):
real quick looking for the guy who kicked him. Everyone
who tears their achilles says it felt like they kicked him.
They can be, you know, clear, like chopping a rope
where there's two free edges, But more commonly, they tear
such that each end looks like a mop. In these situations,
m r I s might show bridging tissue with no
apparent gap, and sometimes they'll they'll be not much bleeding,

(38:50):
so it may not look as bad as it is
on m r I Uh. In those situations, it can
take longer to heal, but the calf's not as strong,
so if they knew it was torn, they would have
done they would have likely done surgery. He thinks it
was an underwhelming m R. I plus the please don't
let it be the Achilles factor played in the diagnosis

(39:11):
and decision to treat like it's a strain. But he's
thought it all along. Picture the doctor just sweating bullets
hoping it it wouldn't tear. He probably uh said he
thought it could be torn, but not certain yet. Two
options explore options explore surgery, which would be repair it
that's out for the season, or treated like it's a
strain and see if it gets better. And of course

(39:33):
they treat like it's a strain, cleared him to play,
and end up being a tear. It sounds very probable,
and it also sounds like kind of like I was
saying earlier, just more evidence of a misdiagnosis, malpractice, whatever
you want to call it, on the part of the
training staff. You know, And this is why I mean

(39:56):
people have compared it to the Kauai linear situation. I
didn't see any reports. Did you think Kevin Durant got
a second opinion? I think you should have gotten the
second opinion, no question, you should now now Bob Meyer
said yesterday that there were multiple doctors and multiple mrs. Right,
he said, this is a collaborative decision. I agree with

(40:17):
you on a on a second opinion. I just don't
know who the who who the opinions were and if
they if they got a second opinion. But he did
say multiple doctors. I don't know if they worked together.
I don't know how that how that goes. I agree
the impression. I got the impression from his comment that
they were all kind of part of the Warriors medical team.
Now maybe I'm reading into that incorrectly, but that's kind

(40:41):
of how I took it. Um. Okay, so what does
this due to Kevin Durant's future? Man, that's the million
dollar question. I know this. It's actually cut more million
than that. It's like million dollars question. Uh. Look, A
very likely possibility is that he just opts into his contract.

(41:05):
People forget he doesn't have to be a free agent.
He got thirty one point five million dollar opt in.
He could do that. Probably, you know, we assumed we're
all assuming this tour and he'll be out next season
rehab with the Warriors. Then you can decide, Okay, do
I want to stay here. You get to see how
next season goes for the Warriors. Do they win it

(41:26):
without you? H do they struggle without you? Whatever? You know,
then you can make a decision do I want to
stay here or do I want to go elsewhere as
a healthy player? Or there's what about the positive? I
think there's still the possibility the Warriors could, especially if
they feel and what you a lot of people I

(41:46):
talked to a few people around the league. Some people
feel like Bob Myers. We all know Bob's a great guy,
but that maybe some of those series in addition to
feeling for KD was was also guilt, you know. Um,
And what if the Warriors offer him the five year,
two hundred twenty one million dollar max right now? Does

(42:07):
he take that? Now? What the questions some have with
that is he's not sure he wants to stay in
Golden State for the next five years, so that would
be the rational FRA turning that down. But obviously he
could accept that just for security, even though he doesn't
need the money. And then I know a team like
the Knicks will still offer him the four year, one

(42:31):
hundred sixty four million dollar I believe it is max
roughly won sixty max. Even if he's you know, he's
gonna be out of year. But if you're the Knicks, look,
i'm gonna give you two different scenarios. Does because the
Clippers dream scenario has been Kauai and k D. If

(42:51):
I'm the Clippers right now and I get Kauai Leonard,
I'm not going after KD. Not this the Nets. The
Nets shouldn't either, Like both those teams are in win
now mode and you're a year away from getting k
D back. That that's a two year plan that doesn't fit.
Like to me, what happened last night was the Warriors

(43:13):
became a bigger possibility and the our Nets and the
Clippers and probably the Lakers out that the Lakers were,
but the Lakers are the all three of them around, right,
I think that that makes a lot of sense. And
I think the Knicks now, I think his desire to
go to the Knicks will lesson because of this. But
the Knicks will still offer him the MAX. And like

(43:35):
you said, they're not you know, they're not in win
now mode. They wait a year and you know, they
get him next year. They'd be fine with that, and
I and I would if I were running the Knicks,
I would still offered Kevin Durant the match and be
willing to wait on him. Chris Brussard from Fox Sports
one and The Odd Couple, which the show seven o'clock Eastern,

(43:56):
four o'clock Pacific with Rob Parker here on Fox Sports. Rady, you, um, okay,
what about the Anthony Davis stuff. He wants long term
deals only thinking Knicks or Lakers. Right, that changed, and
then you had RJ. Barrett saying like, I don't really
want play anywhere else, so he had all this other stuff.

(44:17):
Here's here's the deal with all that. Even though Anthony
Davis is saying Knicks or Lakers, they're not going to
fully one commit to anybody. Now most of the Lakers
you got Lebron there. So the likelihood of Anthony Davis

(44:38):
resigning there is is virtually with the Knicks. They they
will be like, look, because you know how it worked,
The Knicks will get to talk to Anthony Davis before
they would make any deal. Anthony Davis is gonna be like, look,
we love it here. This is definitely one of our
prime destinations, but we can't one commit to resigning here.

(45:02):
And if he goes there by himself. If he gets
traded there this year by himself, they're not gonna have there.
I would be a contender in the East. You know,
they might not even make the playoffs, depending what else
they added around it, which wouldn't be another likely another superstar.
So the like the Knicks would be giving up you know,
the number three pick and whatever other young athletes and

(45:22):
players they have for a guy that might not stay
when you go thirty seven and you know, fifty or
forty forty two or whatever it would be, you know,
when you win thirty seven games next year. So that's
an element um And I if they're not getting k
d or Kyrie Irving. If I were the Knicks, I

(45:46):
would not go all in to get Anthony Davis on
what could even be a one year really, so I would. Uh.
I think the Lakers chances of getting him have improved.
I think they were good anyway. David Griffin is not
opposed to dealing with the Lakers. I'm told it's not

(46:07):
a situation of out of spite, I'm not trading him there. Uh.
They like Linso Ball, They're like Brandon ingram best, Linzo
Ball second and Kyle KOs My third among the Lakers players. Uh,
the old They do have questions about brandon Ingram and
his health with the blood clots, and you know, if

(46:28):
that doesn't get cleared up, then that's the problem. But Griffin,
you know, it's hoping to get a third team involved
with the trades. We can get a get an All
Star in his package as well, So that kind of
I think the Lakers are the front runners. Fanthony Daviska,
What about what about the series? Well, look, I think

(46:51):
you have to give Toronto the edge. Obviously they're up
three too. Obviously they've got games seven at home if
it if it goes that far, and if you look
at the situation, I mean, the Warriors made twenty three pointers,
second most in Final history. The Raptors made eight. The
Raptors missed, you know, six or seven percent. They had

(47:15):
shot from the line in the first four games. As
you know, a lot of those shots yesterday were wide
open that they just missed. So and they got nothing
really from Kawhi Leonard except for that two point first,
which was tremendous. You know, near the end of the game,
seam didn't play well and so they've got to be
feeling like, look, if we just play a solid game,

(47:38):
we're going to beat this team. And so I think
the advantage goes to Toronto. I picked the Warriors in six.
Obviously that's not happening. But as a guy that picked
the Warriors, and you know how this is, we want
our picks to be right. I do feel like they
have a pretty good chance of winning this series, but
I think the edge clearly has to be with the Raptors. Yeah,

(47:59):
as it does too, But you know, it's something about
this team and finding way. I just think they're just
out of out of bodies. I just you know, because
von Looney. I mean, the reports are that he thinks
he's going to play, he feels like he's gonna play.
But that's another and and Ken, you count on Boogie
if Looney doesn't play, and you count on Boogie to
give you another pretty good performance like he did last night. Yeah,

(48:24):
I'm not sure. I'm not sure either, but we wait
and we'll see. And it's been a uh, it's been
a it's been a it's been a crazy series. And
now all of a sudden we get ready for a
crazy post season, I mean crazy um offseason as well. Yeah,
I mean another thing. Here's another thing. If I'm Kyrie

(48:45):
Irving and I go and I'm I want to go
to Brooklyn, but I'm not getting Anthony Davis, who you know,
they're not gonna have a lot of assets to trade
for him now that they made that move you know
last week. Uh, And I'm not getting Kevin Durant. I'm
not going to Brooklyn. I would say in Boston if
I were Kyrie, and you know, if they got issues

(49:08):
with some of the younger players who want to be stars,
I mean those might be traded. Those guys might be right.
So personal decisions are up to the player. If you
want to live near home, whatever, but basketball lives. To me.
It makes no sense to go to Brooklyn, leave Boston
for Brooklyn if you're not getting K D R A D.

(49:29):
Has there ever been a one eight on our judgment
of fans? Then what happened last night in Toronto, Because
at the start of the game, it was look at
these fans, they've beenut in the rain all day and
then they're all singing, oh Canada. Right. The guy he's
supposed to say, he just he turned it into like
open mic night and holding out and the whole place,

(49:50):
and you're like, what an unbelieved webster And then there's
some of them are cheering when Kad goes down. Now, look,
I would say that's the ultimate respect, right when when
they the second you get hurt that there's no chance
that you can win, that's the ultimate respect. On the
other hand, you don't do that. Everybody knows you don't
do that. Um. Yeah, I can think of a more

(50:10):
a bigger one eight than that. No, it was a
bad look. I mean, like you said, fans, some fans
do what fans do, and we've seen you know, some
bad behavior from fans before, not just in Toronto. Uh.
And then fortunately it doesn't make up for it all
the way. But obviously they cheered him when he was

(50:32):
walking out and they began channing k D. Right, So
did they, you know, not grasp the seriousness of it initially?
You know, when he goes down, you're thinking, okay, he
just fell, you know, we got the basket or did
they really think, okay k D got injured again and

(50:55):
this time it's serious. I think I think they probably
just had an initial reaction that, you know, on a
second thought, oh wow, it's just serious, especially with the
players helping him understand that, and I think that that
so I'm not gonna kill him for it. But right,
it wasn't like. It wasn't like he fell down in
a heap and was yelling and screaming and crying like things.

(51:18):
That was interesting about it is kd just kind of
sat down and he was like he knew he was done.
I'm sure he felt it pop. He didn't look like
he was in a ton of pain. I'm not. And
it wasn't. It wasn't even like Kobe where he couldn't
lift up his foot like he did put some pressure
on so you you you probably thought like, all right,
he just restrained his his calf and that's gonna be it.

(51:38):
So I mean, I and I hate to give I'm
not giving a complete pass, but I do understand. And
like we're all watching on TV, right, we all saw
that replay. You're in the arena. You don't see or
hear anything. You don't except for Kevin Durance laying down,
sitting down the court and you got a dunk. Yep. Yeah,

(51:58):
So yeah, I'm with you. I mean, look, it's it
was wrong. It was unfortunate, but I'm not gonna fully
kill them, you know, like they were just you know,
totally consciously buoying a guy that's got a serious injury. Yeah,
it wasn't like it was the Roman Colosseum and they were,
you know, putting their thumbs down so that he had
to he had to die, he had to go. Well,

(52:19):
that's actually how the loser of your arguments on the
odd couple, that's actually what happens the wolves for about
thirty seconds or so, Chris Brussary check them out with
Rob Parker four o'clock Pacific Coast time, four o'clock Pacific
Coast time, seven o'clock Eastern time. Or Next Thursday, Chris
is gonna host the first round the NBA Draft, picked

(52:40):
by Pick Analysis by Chris Brustard, Rick Buker, and Jason McIntyre.
The action starts at seven o'clock Eastern time next Thursday,
right here on Fox Sports Radio. Chris, keep up the
great work. Look forward to hearing you in about an
hour and a half. All right, thanks man,