November 13, 2019 • 44 mins
Doug thinks the Astros stealing signs using technology crosses the line from gamesmanship to breaking the rules. He also explains what the NFL is trying to accomplish by having a private workout for Colin Kaepernick. Plus, NFL Insider Jason La Canfora joins the show to tell Doug which team might sign Kaepernick and if the Jets will keep Adam Gase at head coach.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
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(00:22):
of the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. Boom
Up America. Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio, proudly brought
to you by Discover Card. We treat you like you
to treat you. Tom Verducci's gonna join us in twenty
five minutes. Baseball has themselves a controversy. What does it
(00:44):
mean for the Astros? What does it mean for the
two thousand and seventeen World Series, heck this year's playoffs.
We'll discuss with Tom Verducci, MLB Insider on Fox and
from the MLB Network. Jason lack Camp four is gonna
join us later on the show. We'll get his take
on this weird Colin Kaepernick work count news that came
down yesterday midway through our show, which we reacted to
(01:06):
will react to today where some of the Kaepernick camp
are claiming, Hey, why are we working out on a
Saturday not a Tuesday? Rick Buckar will join us. Look,
the Lakers look good. Sons are better. Lakers look good.
Huge upset in college basketball, as Walter Walter McCarty, former
Kentucky Wildcats second year head coach at Evansville is hometown.
(01:30):
Evansville goes in to Lexington and gets the victory over
the uh the number one ranked Wildcats. A lot to
get to, but let's start with this Astro's controversy. Okay,
Mike Fires used to be a picture for the Houston
Astros in two thousand seventeen, and look, is there confirmation
(01:50):
bias to it? I'm sure there is. There's long been
rumored to be some sort of sign stealing by the
Houston Astros, but Mike Fires came out. Is like they
used high speed cameras. I know I was there. I
actually feel bad about it and I'd like for it
to change. Here's Astro's general manager Jeff lu Now being
(02:13):
asked point blank if he knew anything about the team
potentially stealing signs. Were you aware of any of this?
Of these allegations going on at all, Just yes or no.
I mean specifically, I'm not I'm not going to get
into exactly what I knew or anybody knew at this point. Um. So,
I mean, we're just gonna have to wait and and
(02:33):
and see what. I'm sure there will be an appropriate
time to answer that question directly. I'm not trying to
avoid it. Um. I just think at this point, um,
we are you know, we're gonna investigate it and figure
out what the facts are and then we'll respond after that.
Mm hmmm, mm hmmm, mm hmmm. I'm not going to
(02:56):
respond at this time because you respond right if the
answers no, the answer is no. It's always gonna be
now and about it. Nothing. Um, he was given a
little bit of a parachute there in the Did you
know anything about the allegations? Sure, anyboy the allegations. I
(03:16):
mean they called me and said, do you know anybody
these allegation? Do you know anything about this? And then
or did you know about did you guys steal signs?
Did you know that you were stealing signs? Was there
a high speed camera used? And I understand that in
baseball it is actually not illegal to steal signs, it's not.
(03:37):
It's stealing signs is a lot like counting cards in Vegas.
You know, counting cards, that's what Rayman did, right. County
cards in Vegas is not illegal. It is not. It's
not illegal under federal local laws, provided that there's no
(04:00):
card counting device or player or person assisting the player
in counting cards. It should be pointed out that casinos
will kick you out. They have the right to do
so if they believe you are counting cards. But it's
not actually illegal to count cards. Nope, it's not appreciated,
(04:23):
which is a lot like sign stealing, unless you use
an external device, which is exactly like what they're accused
of doing with the Houston Nastros. Nobody's saying when you
got a runner at second, they could decide for the
sign touch their shoulder, you know, oc curved balls coming. No, no, no,
that is an age old practice. But the the Astros like, look, maam,
(04:44):
we just use our cameras to study if you're tipping pitches.
We just look at how you're holding the glove. Okay, okay.
And to two people who say, hey, listen, it's baseball.
This is part of the game's meanship of baseball. I
would say gamesmanship is a misdemeanor, is a don't do
(05:08):
that again? Is that you do it again? We're gonna
throw out your best player's head. This is misdemeanor as
opposed to using the camera makes it felonious. By the way,
one of my favorite words in the English dictionary felonious.
It's bad and it sounds even worse. It sounds uh
(05:28):
very um nefarious. Felonious is nefarious another great word. So
lot I tells you, tells you exactly what you need
to know. Of course you knew about it. Of course
you knew the allegations right there. Of course you knew
about it. Did you do anything to stop it? Were
you the one who started it? Who was the one? Like?
(05:50):
All that stuff will eventually come out. We're sure that
they were doing it, and I'm guessing they're going to
use the Patriots defense, which is not actually a good
one because unlike the Patriots defense, which was, hey, we
use the cameras, but we use the camera. For years,
there was no law that said we couldn't use cameras
to go from sideline to to the game camera. Why why,
why can't we the law was behind the technology a
(06:11):
little bit. In baseball, the law is not behind the technology.
You're not allowed to use an iPhone and you're not
allowed to use any sort of no devices in there,
even fitbits. Man, I got twelve thousand steps. Oh that's
a fastball. Can't you use a fitbit? Like baseball wants
to maintain the core of their integrity and got electronics
(06:34):
out of it, and that's how they do it. But
just like cowd card card counting not being illegal, sign
stealing is not illegal unless you use that external device,
and that's where it gets nefarious. All right. I was
driving in the car the other day and uh, in
(06:54):
southern California. I don't know how it is. You know,
most most places it's spent four miles an hour over
to nine mile hours miles an hour over. I was
on a road and I passed a police officer and
my son said it was sixty I was driving, see,
And he's like, are you gonna get pulled over? I said,
(07:14):
I don't think so. He said, why not? You're speeding?
I said, technically I am speeding, But am I speeding
to the point where I need to be pulled? Over
and given a speeding ticket. Answer is no. He's like, well,
what is the what is the number? Like, there's no
magic number. Not they would have anything to do with
them having to reach their monthly quota. No, no, no,
no no no that no quotas and writing speeding tickets anyway,
(07:40):
that would be um nefarious invarious Yes, Doug Otli show
here on Fox Sports Radio. But there is in baseball.
There is gamesmanship. You are It's it's like throwing at
a guy. You know, look, if you throw it a
guy and you hit him in the hip, let's Baseball's
baseball be throwing a guy and you take trying tomahawk
(08:01):
his head. Now the sudden, we're gonna come to blows.
If you're going into second base and you have a
takeout slide where you go, you're you're a little slow
to get down and you get your hands in the
air and you're just booky book boogy. But if you
slide a yard off the bag spikes up trying to
(08:22):
decleate the guy, Now the sudden, we're coming to blows.
Just like when you're behind the wheel of a car.
I was like, look at southern California, the traffic is
never great. When it is great, most roads you go
seventy four to sixty five, you're good, you know, eighty
five are over. They're usually are gonna ring you up. Yeah,
(08:43):
that's about how it goes, you know, just stating around
the speed limit. That's the difference here. So to two
people who are brushing this off as it's baseball, and look, baseball,
same thing with steroids. You've heard people go they took
greenies out of the game. People weren't hitting sixty and
seventy home runs when they're using greenies. They've been using
(09:04):
greenies forever. Baseball is boring. You need sometimes you need
a little little amphetamine. I'm joking sort of. But the
idea of performance enhancers, like it's the difference honestly between
steroids and protein powder. Like, look, you have to work
(09:25):
hard for either. Now, that's the one thing about steroids
is people think you just inject yourself the steroids and
all of a sudden you jump to the moon. Like, now,
what it does give you more testosterone, your performance will
be better. But also it gives the ability to train
more often, build more muscle, and replenish your energy quicker.
And the art of the other substances that you can take,
(09:47):
the protein, the creating, all those other things. They're they're
not going to stimulate you the way that synthetic testosterone is.
But there's a difference, and everybody knows it. Everybody knows it.
There's a difference between misdemeanor and felony. There's a difference
between protein powder and protein chicks. And I'll gotta go
take my check, and I gotta eat a bunch of beef,
and I gotta drink water and carry you know, the
(10:07):
guy that carries around that jug of water and steroid guy.
The astros taking it to this degree becomes steroid guy.
The astros taking it to this degree become the guy
who's driving you know, ninety on the freeway going what
everybody speechs, the non denial denial from their general manager tells, y'all,
(10:30):
I need to know, and now it's baseball's job to
figure out what to do with it. But when you
win a World Series, when you compete for another one,
everyone's saying that you're stealing signs and you're do so
using electronics. If you were in Vegas and people say
you were counting cards and you got caught with an
artificial card counter, you'd end up missing a finger in
(10:53):
some in some gutter. There's there's operating the gray, and
then there's blatantly blaking the rules. And I think we
all know what the astros are accused of. Be sure
to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show
weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio a app con
(11:15):
Kaepernick sued the league and then took a settlement. And
I'm sure because he was the face of this and
still is the face of the movement. It's different than
a creed. It just is anyone who thinks it's not
kidding yourself and whatever. His level of toxicity has died down,
level of popularities honestly died down. But the NFL, like
(11:39):
I don't know, like if I'm running a team, like, hey,
are we allowed to bring him in like in in
the documents that you guys signed. Does this mean he's
not gonna play in the NFL anymore? Do we have
to have like clearance to have him do this? You know,
like what what's kosher? And I'm sure the NFL got
enough of this, Enough of these calls like, you know,
(12:01):
let's just we'll pay the freight, will throw the workout,
and what happens with it is all right, let's do
it on a Saturday. Hold on, now, you got allw
these teams playing on Sunday. Why don't you do it
on Tuesday? I'll workouts are on Tuesday. Yes, workouts are
on a Tuesday usually because everybody else is off. But
that's for each individual team. We want to do this
for all teams. This would cut into their Tuesday workouts
(12:23):
when they try out a kicker, they bring up a
practice team guy, and they try and figure out if
they want how they want to feel their roster for
the next week. I actually think sometimes the truth is
more bizarre than fiction, and it is in fact explainable,
right said, like, if you really think that the NFL,
who already, who already gave some kind of financial settlement
(12:44):
to Colin Kaepernick, is gonna sit there and try and
control this thing and keep him out of the league again,
or if they kept him met a league as a
controlling body the first time, that would be silly, and
obviously that would probably be a violation of whatever they signed.
He also mentioned Steve weish did. Some NFL executives said
they preferd Saturday because of logistical reasons regarding regional scouts.
(13:07):
Most teams are looking at this as a first step
towards having Kaepernick in for more private workouts in the
off season, not signing him right after Saturday's workout. Now, look,
if you wows them, and if you're Kaepernick and you
really want to play in the league, like a dude,
any opportunity. I didn't want to do that nonsense league
that went under. I don't really want to do the XFL.
I want to play in the NFL. And if you
(13:29):
show up in great shape and zipping that football around,
moving around, you're like, hey, let's bring him in on
a Tuesday. Why not? This is just one of those
like are we allowed to do this? Are we Is
it okay? Are we going to get a call from
the commissioner? Are we gonna like? No, bring him in.
I'll tell you what here, this is how we You're good.
This is the pee wee This is the pre wee
(13:50):
Reese moment. Pee wee Reese. Of course, play with Jackie Robinson.
They're playing in Cincinnati one day day game. Cincinnati's fans
were rolling all kinds of insults. Jackie Robinson, Pewee Reese
went and put his arm around him. He's one of
he's a Dodger, and the rest of they say is history.
It's not quite as warm and as cuddly from the NFL,
(14:13):
but considering he sued the league, in the league is like,
we know you sued us, we know you made us
look bad, look like we're colluding against you. You're struggling
to get a workout with teams. We'll pay for everything.
You show up Saturday in Atlanta, We'll do the whole thing.
It is not nefarious as some people would lead you
to believe. Be sure to catch the live edition of
(14:34):
the Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three p m.
Easter noon Pacific. All right, let's welcome in Tom Verducci,
who does an amazing job MLBON Fox covering the World Series.
You also see him on the MLB Network. Help me
out here, Tom, Like again, I not only respect your work,
but all of your sources. And this feels like the
(14:56):
worst kept secret ever is that the astros are healing
signs like that. No one talks about this stuff like
like they have recently, but the high use of the
high speed camera changes things. What's the general reaction to
Mike fires outing his old team yesterday. Well, the fact
you just mentioned there where you have a player on
(15:18):
the record from a team admitting they had a system
in place, and that's pretty big. I mean, as you mentioned,
it has been kind of the worst kept secret. Never
remember the timing here, Doug to this is um and
I think it was I don't want to say rampant,
but not uncommon in baseball that several teams were using
whatever edges they could find. Essentially, what happened was the
(15:40):
technology outpaced Baseball's ability to police it in terms of
putting cameras and ballparks. I could pick up catch the
catcher signals. Teams would actually scout the sign sequences and
the catchers used for certain pictures, so they would know
that going into the game, train a camera on those signs,
and in real time there would be monitors right next
(16:01):
to the dugout and in the astro's case, they would
bang out a trash can, so the hitter would know, hey,
that's a change up coming. So what happened was this year,
because it was prevalent, Rob Manford the MLB commissioners to
basically take all the cameras away at least from foul
pole to foul poll. Now those monitors are not next
(16:22):
to the dugout there back in the clubhouse. They're on
a little delay. I think it's about ten or fifteen
second delay, and there are security agents from MLB that
monitor that. So again we're talking about this system that
fires is talking about those twenty seventeen It's much harder
to pull that off, and I think because it was
easy to pull off in seventeen that's why it was
(16:44):
so prevalent. It was still illegal though, right The use
of high like this is one of those things where
there's always been gamesmanship in trying to steal signs, But
when you start to use electronics, even in two thousand seventeen,
that would be deemed illegal totally. It was at least
unethical and everybody would know that. Remember twenty seven team
was also the year that Manford find the Red Sox
(17:07):
for using the Apple Watch to communicate signs to the
batters and the Yankees for you improper use of a
bullpen or dugout phone for the same reason. Uh, the
Astros were fine for having an employee surveill with a camera.
The Indians and Red Sox dugout. So all this is
going on in sixteen and seventeen h and if there
weren't specific protocols against it, everybody knew that it was unethical.
(17:30):
Like this has been going on literally since nineteen hundred. No, no, no,
I I look, I get the idea of like stealing signs,
but again, once you stay, it's like it's like counting cards, right,
Stealing signs is not illegal. Counting cards is not illegal.
Both are frowned upon. But when you start using electronics,
now a sudden, it becomes illegal. Didn't The Yankees this
(17:51):
year accused the Astros of whistling in the dugout. Yeah,
now that was interesting. They did say, um that they
heard whistling in the dugout, And generally that basically means
somebody is stealing signs and they're relaying to the hitter
by virtue of the whistle or lack of a whistle,
whether it was off speed or fastball. Now, what I
(18:11):
had heard from Houston sources myself is the Astros. No,
they've had this reputation out there, so they were whistling
just to get inside the heads of the Yankees. They
didn't have a sign stealing scheme going on, but they
know reputation preceded themselves. I saw Astro's players on the
basis faking to the hitter that they had the catcher
(18:33):
signed by a shake of a head or a hand signal.
They were literally messing with the Yankees, trying to get
inside their heads because they're aware of themselves and what
their reputation is. That's how they knew or all this.
Chapman was throwing that slider that tos alto a hit
that hasn't landed yet. That there was it was it
was a fake. You will you could have hit that one. Uh.
(18:55):
Tom Verducci joining us on the Doug Gottlip Show. Okay, Well,
Clayton Kershaw is seen as a postseason choker, right, he
just is. And he had a I think a three
or a four run lead twice. In Game five, they
gave up five home runs. It was the never say
die Astros in the World Series two thousand seventeen. I've
heard enough he will say, Well, it's really hard to
(19:16):
do the trash can thing in the World Series with
all the noise. My guess is there's a plan. You know,
there's a plan for everything. They got silent counts in
the NFL. There's gotta be a way to to send
the sign to to the hitter. Um what the what's
the Dodgers reaction to this story? Um? Like you not
terribly surprised. I'm not sure there and I know they
(19:39):
won't do this. They won't make the leap to say
that's the reason we lost the World Series. I mean,
let's face it, it got to a Game seven, and
that was a Dodger stadium. Uson obviously won that game,
and ironically, it was a game in which you Darvish
was tipping his pitches by the way he was putting
the ball in his glove, and that's old fashioned sign
stealing or tipping. Uh, that's not Darvish and felt because
(20:00):
that was something that the Houston hitters could see without
the use of any devices. That's a different story. But
I think because of the game seven was at home, Uh,
this thing is not as bad. But I went back
to and look, and this doesn't prove anything, but it
frames to mind that once this story is out there, right,
everything is kind of kind of tainted because as a fan,
(20:21):
you can take it as far as you want, because
we really don't know literally how much it affected the
outcome of the game. But I went back and looked
at the swing and miss rate on changeups for the
Houston Astros in the seen postseason at home, because that
pitch to changeup is designed literally full hitters, right, get
guys out front. But if you know it's coming, you're
(20:43):
not going to be fooled, and they're swinging. This rate
on changeups in the postseason was a fraction of what
it was for the opponents. It was a fraction of
the regular season average. For major league teams, they were
either really really good, I mean super good for those
four week stretches, the gainst the Red Sox, the Dodgers,
um who else was in there in the in the Indians.
(21:04):
I believe the Yankees, I'm sorry the Yankees, that they
were really good for that three or four week stretch
or maybe there was some help, but again, how much help,
we don't know. But if there's any help, that's wrong.
Yeah that this this reminds me of like Lance Armstrong, right,
because the story of Lamps Armstrong was like, oh, Anstrom,
I've never cheated like Okay, Well it's in it's in
(21:24):
cycling where everybody we we believe everybody is dirty. And
for you to be the best writer when everybody else
is dirty, just it. It defies logic, right. And if
everybody's trying to steal signs a little bit and you're
having the most success and you say we're not doing
it at all, that I don't believe. I just I'm sorry,
I don't buy it. Um. The question is, you know,
(21:48):
could they use it on the ruck? Could they use
their technology on the road? Could they use it in
the playoffs? And um? And and obviously was was anybody
else using this technology or were they the only ones?
Like all of this stuff is super interesting. Um. What's
Manfred's reputation in terms of his heavy handedness. Well, I
think the one case that really stands out is he
(22:10):
banned the general manager of the Braves for life from baseball,
John Cappellella. That was for infractions related to cheating the
system on international free agency signing. That was the one
time he came down quickly and really hard. But his
nature as a lawyer is to be very deliberate, build consensus,
take his time on issues. So you know, I don't
(22:32):
think there's any indication right now that he's going to
be super quick or have he handed on this. I
think he has to find out a couple of things here.
He obviously has to find out if there was true intent,
what was it, and if he can to identify individuals
now if that happened, that's a bigger story. I mean,
I think there's probably some sort of fine, maybe loss
of his draft pick here if there is any kind
(22:54):
of a proof, but individuals, especially Doug, if there's something
that happened this year with the protocols in place, if
the commissioner can tie an individual to a rigged scheme
against rules that where he Warren clubs, he could be
talking about banning someone for life. I'm not saying that's
where it's going, but that's the kind of way that
(23:15):
he has. All Right, a couple a couple of quick ones,
as that we're not yet to hot stove League time.
Garrett Cole getting the pitch from C C. S. Matthew
to be a Yankee. He actually owns a house kind
of down the street from me, and he's from Orange County,
and there's been you know, the Angels are trying to
get a stadium built, and they obviously have Trout in
the contract for the next millennium. UM best guest on
Garrett Cole. Well, first of all settled in. It's gonna take.
(23:39):
It's gonna be at least till January, maybe in February.
He's going to sign the richest pitching contract in the
history of the game. And I think the Angels are
the front runners for Garrett Cole because it is home,
because there's a tremendous need for that team. As you know,
I actually think their core position players is pretty darn
good to the most exciting players in Trout, Kani, a
(24:01):
real exciting project coming up in Joe Adele, and the
best defensive shortstop in baseball in Simmons. So they desperately
meet pitching, and this guy is tailor made for them.
They can't continue to waste the prime of Mike Trout.
They have to go get pitching. He's their number one target. Um,
All right, what about the Nationals? They win the World Series,
(24:22):
but now the sudden you know, They're best hitter is
on the market, Their best picture is on the market.
What do the Nationals look like at the start of
the season. I like their chances to have Strasbourg back
in that rotation. Uh. This guy moved his family from
California to Washington recently in the last year or two.
He really loves it there. Um. I think is the
case sort of like Kershaw with the Dodgers, the Batty
(24:44):
with the Yankees. We just redo the deal and give
him now even a bump up of what was a
really good deal but definitely market value. Brandella is a
more difficult case. I think he's an interesting player because
Anthony is a guy who I think will sign or
could sign a shorter term and deal for a huge
A A V. Think about that contract the Dodgers offered
(25:04):
Bryce Harper. It's like, yeah, we want you, but we
don't want you for thirteen years as much of for
like your four or five best years. I could see
Randon doing that with a team like the Dodgers. I mean,
he'll have a ton of interest and seems like the
White Sox, the Rangers, the Nationals to bring him back. Um,
but I'm I don't think he's going to Everybody's gonna
look at the Aeronauto contract. But I think he might
(25:25):
be a guy who says, give me your best offer
over five years and it will be a gigantic average
annual value would be interesting considering how long we later
waited last year for that deal and then the Trout
deal got done actually beforehand, and what happens this year
last thing. Bruce Bocci is an institution um in all
of California, right with the Pods and of course with
(25:46):
the Giants. Were you won three World Series? Gabe Kapler
who kind of struggled, He struggled early on and then
kind of fit in with culturally. Maybe in Philadelphia, that's
the guy they tapped to replace him. What your reaction
to Gabe Kapler being kind of reunited with far Hans Heidi, Yeah,
you hit it right there. I can't say I was surprised,
(26:08):
because right from the get go, I thought he was
the favorite because Farhand really loved working with him with
the Dodgers. And what was interesting to hear Farhand talk
about how people in the Phillies organization, including I guess
some players were texting him or calling him to let
him know how highly they thought of Gabe Kapler. And
I've always been to school Doug that, and I know
(26:28):
there's a lot of managers out there who have made
an impact first year, Alex Cora last year, Rocko Bill
Delhi this year. I get that, but generally I like
managers on their second job, and I think Gabe will
be better. You're right, he wasn't a great fit in
Philadelphia two straight years. Uh. They really didn't play well
at the end of the season. I like a team
(26:49):
that plays their best baseball late in the year. I
think it is a reflection on the manager. I think
it'll be better at this time around. But I think
that connection and it is obviously a friendship, not just
the p fessional relationship, but a good friendship where they
can work together. That's good for the Giants and know
starting out as those two the general manager of the
president of Baseball ops uh in the manager are on
(27:10):
the same page. Awesome stuff. That's Tom Verducci and of
course you seem on MLB networking on Fox Sports covering
Major League Baseball. Tom, a really amazing day to be
talking about baseball, especially a World Series played three seasons ago.
But it's a huge story and we really appreciate your insight.
You guys like always a pleasure. Thank you, Tom Verducci.
(27:32):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports
Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app.
Search f s R to listen live. Let's welcome to
Jason Lockham for covers the NFL for CBS Sports and
CBS Sports dot Com. The Kaepernick workout, what do you
(27:53):
make of it? I mean, if teams were interested in
Colin Kaepernick, they could have going about this in their
own way. UM. But I think if you're the NFL
and this is now going on three years and you're
involved with the players coalition in a movement that that
(28:15):
he started, that isn't going away, um, and Colin Kaepernick
as a UM, as a story, as as a uh
you know, an advocate for change, as you know, someone
who's on a mission and going from community community doing
his work, that's not going away. So I think the
league reached a point where, um, they felt like there
(28:39):
had to be some measure taken or some sense of
closure on this, and you know, some way of extending
an olive branch of some sort. And we could argue
how meaningful that will end up being in the end,
But of of I think kind of checking themselves or
clearing themselves forty fifty years down the road when people
(29:04):
are writing about this time in American history and American
sports history, and and and at least somewhere in the
first four paragraphs now is but the NFL did extend,
you know, to Kaepernick an unprecedented opportunity to schedule a
workout for him and invite all thirty two teams, something
that had never happened before. Um, that's my take on it. Yeah,
(29:27):
I think it's weird. It's weird because, like you said,
they've been able to work him out for three years,
they want to call him in and work him out.
My my guess And and this is again you're an insider.
I'm not I'm an outsider. I'm just guessing. Is it
possible possible Jason that because of the lawsuit there was
like wait a second, are we allowed to do this?
(29:47):
Like and they get you get a call like can
we just bring him in? Or is there like how
do you want to do? How do we do the
been a free agent for three years like that? Do
you think he ends up in somebody's him like like
next year, because that's what they're saying this is about,
It's about next year. Yeah, I mean, it's it's possible
(30:08):
there's gonna be a whole another crop of quarterbacks and
they're all gonna be younger than him, and they've found
a way to systematically ignore him for three years. So
I don't know that this workout changes it. Um. I
mean again, like some people are like, well, maybe teams
didn't want to bring them in because it be a
distraction and blah blah blah blah. I mean, how many
(30:28):
people you think are at the Jacksonville Jaguars team facility
on Tuesday when there's you know what I mean, when
there's no practice, Like, I don't know that I'd buy that,
But okay, if this somehow gives them cloak of cover
and we will all just send somebody. So it's not
like we've got to answer a bunch of questions about
it individually. I mean maybe, but there's not like Eric
Reid's playing every week, you know what I mean. Like
(30:49):
there's guys who did the exact same thing. Man, I know,
Michael Bennett like isn't now, but there still are a
few guys who were doing it around the league. Um,
but yet this guy you want to do it? Nobody
felt like they could bring him in for a workout
because it would be so much of a distraction. I
don't know, I don't know, um, but look, at least
(31:10):
now people will have sat there with their own stop watches,
with their own eyes, and with their own notepads and
recorded all this and they'll bring it back to their facilities.
But trust me, the guys who are going to be
at this thing are not going to be decision makers.
Buy and large and maybe a few pro personnel director
types or pro personnel assistance, but it's not gonna be
the kind of guys who could actually get him in
the building. But maybe it facilitates more conversation, and maybe
(31:32):
he looks good enough that it does foster an environment
where somebody is willing to bring him in, um, you know,
to compete for a job as a backup or whatever
next year. But I'm not sure. Man. They're having more
and more success with young, cheap you know what I mean, backup,
and he's gonna he's thirty two. I don't know. Look,
I I think it's a bunch of place. He could
(31:53):
be a really good backup right in Houston, in frankly,
in Baltimore. Obviously that thing went sideways. Uh, you know,
anywhere there's like a quarterback who has a potential to
getting hurt because they run around um Seattle. But he
had said previously he didn't want to be a backup,
has his own personal narrative change, and he wants, you know,
he's okay with that, and and he wants to just
(32:16):
be ready and ready to get the started. Ready that
that will maybe be the most interesting thing in the
in the interviews Jason lacamp Ford joining us CBS Sports
dot com. So Adam Gaze, like the working rumor in
the NFL was like he's one and done, he's out
of here. The Jets mid season or a little after
mid season, they beat the Giants and like, no, no, no,
Adam Gaze is definitely coming back next year. Most Jets.
(32:37):
This is the most Jets move ever. Yeah, we have
no plans to fire anybody. I mean, no one ever
does before Thanksgiving, by and large, except for extreme examples.
I mean, look, anytime you're putting out votes of confidence
eight games into a guy's tenure, there's there's something. There's
some there there, and they have ample time to turn
it around. But the idea that nothing that could happen
the last two months for a team that's been that mad,
(32:59):
and for a team whose quarterback has struggled for large
stretches of games and weeks on end. The way Sam
Donald has it, it's not a m offensive coordinator everything else. Think.
I mean, you know, no offensive line and no tight ends,
and I get it, but it's still not a pretty picture.
They still have to play the Bengals and the Dolphins them, Like,
what if they lose both of those? You really they're
(33:20):
gonna be like they would keep him? Really? Come on, now,
you know, I think it's a it's a it's a
misguided attempt. They don't protest too much. They're sending out
messages to anybody they can in the media to try
to play take their fan base. But the problem is
that team is probably not gonna get that much better,
and it's not going over really well with the fan base.
And I think the the fervor is only going to
(33:41):
be ratcheted up now because now they feel like their
voice isn't being heard. But but fret not, your voice
is being heard, and your voice will be heard at
the turnstiles and will be heard in all the empty
seats down the stretch. Um And no, I'm far from
convinced that there's no chance they make any changes there.
How could you be? Uh said? Dwayne Haskins was named
the starter for the rest of the season. This is
(34:04):
like a week and a half after he wasn't ready
to play. He's the interim head coach that he's not
even ready to be a candidate. Now he's the quarterback
for the rest of the season. Um. The story that
that the Redskins, I don't know which is a leak
you're building, right, the Redskins of the Jets you would know,
but they both they both have leaks like the Titanic. Um,
(34:26):
So is Dwayne Haskins working hard now? Because everybody said
before he didn't know the playbook. Adrian Peterson grabbed him
after one of the games and said, dude, you gotta
learned to playbook. Has that changed? I mean, look there,
they reached a point in their season where you're going
to play the young quarterback. The only reason not to
play him would be that he might get hurt. And
you know what that without offensive line. That's absolutely true.
(34:47):
But let's be real about what Bill Callahan wants. All
Bill Callahan wants to do is run the football. I
mean he'll tell you just listen, like he I don't
think he could utter the word pass passes a four
letter word to him. So they're gonna run at a
time they're getting day guys back, don't don't protect the
quarterback in that respect. The team is so bad around
him that you you're not going to be able to
base much of an evaluation on the final stretch of
(35:08):
games here because they're they're woefully overmatched for the most part. Um,
he's got one receiver he can rely on and that's it.
I mean, no tight ends. And again even running backs
guys has never been healthy, and Adrian Peterson is not.
I mean he starts there, but like he's not getting
on the field pretty much anywhere else, Like he just wouldn't.
So it's not a good situation for the kid. But
(35:30):
they reached a point where the you know, why not,
I guess essentially at this point, and especially knowing that
the owner would want to see him, you're the interim coach, Like,
what are you really gonna do? Um? Is it Atlantic?
Could he saved his job? I mean, I guess it's
just one week. Yeah, but they really I know, but
(35:51):
he did he like he basically did the Tin Cup.
They get all the change out of your pocket and
put in the other pocket. They put offensive guys coaching
defensive guys, and they go down and beat and they
go to turn around and beat the Saints. Um, they
do have three home games in a row, four home
games remaining. They got some potential wins granted a trip
to the Niners, which probably won't won't end well. Uh,
(36:12):
is there any chance he holds on. The owner really
really likes it was a human being and really really
believes in him as a leader. But it's a results
based business and they're they're down up. They've they've they've
I mean, this is two straight years where they've rendered
everything after like October fift irrelevant and obsoletely you know
what I mean, Like when you're messing around one and
five and you know two and seven, like come on now, um,
(36:34):
and they weren't competing. The problem is they just haven't
been competitive weekend week out. I mean, the turnover, the
scoring differential at halftime for them for the year is staggering.
So I mean, is it possible, Yeah, but is it probable? No?
Because I think that was their super Bowl last week. Um,
(36:55):
But you know, having a couple of different guys calling
the defense. Now, I don't know that that's going to
carry them, you know, to where we're looking at them
and oh my god, they went you know, five and
two down the stretch or whatever, like if something like
that happened. He really likes Dan Quinn. But I would
say this, even if they that happened, there would be
Thomas to Mitchrall something, you know what I mean, there
would be there would be some substantial change coming to
(37:16):
continue to roll the same thing back there now, you know,
four years removed from them being at their heights, and
think that this is going to change drastically, Um, I
think we'd be pretty naive. Um. All right, So, speaking
of the dreaded vote of confidence, I don't really know
what Jerry Jones had to say about Jason Carrett and
kind of he was effused in his praise of Mike Zimmer.
(37:37):
Mike Zimmer does not coach the Dallas Cowboys. He coaches
the team that beat the Dallas Cowboys used to Yeah,
he used to coach there. Um kind of, I mean,
it's it's and then then he comes out goes The
guy gets the most criticism is always the head coach
and the offensive coordinator then then the quarterback or whatever
kind of tried to preface it. Um, but I you know,
(37:58):
outside of a collapse, I can't see them not winning
that division. What's the status of Jason Garrett and Dallas.
I don't think they're winning that division. I don't think
they're going to the playoffs. Um. I would have told
you that in September, and I would have told you that,
and maybe we did talk when they were three and out. Um,
because they haven't played anybody yet, and when they play
real teams is when they tend to to be exposed. Um. Look,
(38:20):
Jerry doesn't have to say anything. Jerry didn't give the
guy an extension, didn't really want to entertain it. And
he letting somebody who he's looked at as as the
ideal guy, right, because there's that's the past, the least
resistance like that, there's no pushback, Like they know what
they have there and he's going to facilitate what they
want and they're they're very hands on obviously, but again,
(38:43):
the results bas based business. Jerry thinks he's got a
roster that could compete with anybody's in the league. And
that's where they have a super Bowl. They're not going
to the super Bowl. I don't think they're going to
the playoffs. And even if they do, when they're one
and done, that's not the team he thinks he has,
So him him not reinvesting in Jason Garrett's at everything.
And if they're not who he thinks they should be,
(39:04):
then here we're going elsewhere. Who would be the guy,
Lincoln Riley? It's a squeaky door. You got there? Well,
I thought the dog was gonna go crazy, so I went.
I went outside for a minute. But it's like twenty
five degrees and I'm in shorts and a T shirt.
I called an audible dog, And now I'm now I'm
back in the four year. I appreciate I appreciate the
(39:27):
suburban grit of being able to walk outside and stay
on the stay on the phone with us. Um. Now,
the Browns gotta win over A good look. The Bills
are a good team. Grand The Bills had to miss
two field goals in order them to win that game,
first home win of the year. How important is this
Thursday night game? Oh? I think it's big the Bills. Um,
(39:47):
you know the Bills. I don't know that I'm going
to crown the Browns off. That the dirty little secret
to the Bills is for three weeks they can't stop
anybody running the ball or like six point seven yards
per carry. Um. You know, the Eagles couldn't run the
ball all year until they play them. Washing didn't run
the ball all year until they played them. Um. And
obviously the Browns gauge them. So UM. I still think
the Browns have a lot of issues. You watch their
(40:08):
play calling in the red zone. It's puzzling. Um, Baker
mayfield from the seven place in the one yard line,
they couldn't get a touchdown. You don't refuse and yet
that's who they've been all year. Yet he refuses to
kick field goals and what are always close games. Um,
wants nothing to do with the three points. But then
you also can't get in the end zone. Uh, there's
(40:28):
still you know, there's still some stuff there that gives
you pauls if they simplify their attack and just rely
on the two running backs they have and play the
way Pittsburgh plays, which is okay, the quarterbacks gonna throw short,
intermediate quick stuff. Get it out of there. Um, and
we're gonna beach with their defense and we're gonna grind
you with their run game. Then then I think Cleveland,
you know, could find a little joy in the second
(40:49):
half of the season. I still don't think anywhere close
to get out of the hole that they're in, and
I think this is a really bad spot for them. Um.
But if they come out showcase in Baker and it's about,
you know, look at the plays we can call and boy,
we got a feed, O'Dell, then you can you can
watch the takeaway totals for the Steelers keep climbing because
and you watched you know what, and Hayward and Bud
(41:10):
Dupree get off against a very poor offensive line when
it comes to past protection. So I'm interested to see
if they play for style points or if they just
play for grid points. And if they play for grid points,
then you know that I think it's a close game,
but I still favor the Steelers. I get that the
Texans didn't play last week and the Ravens did and
Lamar Jackson put on a show, but it's also against
(41:32):
the Bengals, who they're a high school team right there,
just awful. Um, But it does feel like Deshaun Watson
somehow is getting completely lost in this m v P discussion.
Does that change if they can win on the road
on Sunday? Sure, I mean, we really shouldn't even start
having to be discussion. And why I think what we're doing.
What we're doing is like because Lamar Jackson, there was
(41:53):
some criticism of him because he was kind of hit
and miss or even early in this season, but hit
obviously early against the Dolphins and Cardinals, but then we
forgot about the games in the middle where he was
not particularly good. Now he's been great the last two weeks.
I think that's how we've gotten into this m VP thing, like, oh,
he's the MVP. Like we still have a ways to
go here, But but it is interesting that we're there's
(42:13):
several guys having great seasons, Mahomes having a great year
that we're not paying attention to. Yeah, I mean, well
Mahomes missed. I mean he basically missed three weeks. You know,
when you're only playing sixteen games, that's a that's a
pretty good chunk. And the problem for Mahomes is he
could have done a lot of things better than last year,
but still not produced last year year like he wasn't
throwing fifty touchdown again, Like it wasn't happening. I'm sorry.
(42:33):
It's happen three times in the history of the game.
It's not happening back to back seasons. Uh No, I
think it's I think it's three guys who stand out
for me. It's Lamar, It's the Sean, and it's Russell,
and you can shuffle them around any given week. But
you know, I don't think it's going to some of
other defensive side of the ball. Um, there's not a
you know, Mike Thomas is doing Mike Thomas things, but
(42:54):
he's been doing those things for a while, and you know,
I don't think that's going to carry the day. And
I love with McCaffrey and Dalvin Cooker doing but I
don't think you can make the case they're more spectacular
than these other guys. Um. The one thing I would
say about Lamar is right now, he's like a top
five quarterback and a top ten running back. He's tents
in the league in Russian, he's average in seven yards
(43:14):
and carry. Um. When you look at the totality of
that and the fact that like, let's be real, like
he throws to a tight end. He throws to a
rookie receiver who's still got a bad foot, you know
what I mean, who can't practice a lot of weeks
that has missed, you know, a bunch of games himself.
And that's really it, you know what I mean, mouth boykin,
I don't know if he's an NFL player yet, you
know what I mean. Like Ayton Hurst was picked in
the first round, but he's the third best tight end.
(43:36):
Like it's not like he's out there with Mahomes cast
or but but like listen, looks he's been better than
we thought. He's not throwing, He's not Rogers, Mahomes, Russell Wilson.
You know, he's frankly not not Brady like he's I
would agree with you on the running back thing. He's
(43:57):
basically show Heyotani right like where he's He may not
he's not the best throwing quarterback, but he's the best
running quarterback by a mile. And he's been good enough
as a thrower so that it can accentuate the positives.
And he does hit those deep balls. He's an incredible
deep ball thrower. Yeah, I mean, look, he does not
turn the ball over. His decision making is pristine um.
(44:18):
And it's not again, it's not like he's got a
multitude of options. It's it's it's really him playing point
guard and spreading it around enough because you know, good
teams know most of the time it's going to Andrews
and so you've got you know, Hollywood Brown and that's it. Um,
that's their offense. It's and it's it's all based around
Lamar and matchups and changing the match point in RPOs.
I mean, he's a bully to see things at the
(44:41):
line of scrimmage and know what to do with the ball,
when to pitch it, when to hold it, when to
throw it. It's pretty special, no question. Jason Knocking for
a CBS Sports dot Com their NFL insider. Jason, thanks
so much for joining us. You got any
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
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or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. Boom
Up America. Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio, proudly brought
to you by Discover Card. We treat you like you
to treat you. Tom Verducci's gonna join us in twenty
five minutes. Baseball has themselves a controversy. What does it
(00:44):
mean for the Astros? What does it mean for the
two thousand and seventeen World Series, heck this year's playoffs.
We'll discuss with Tom Verducci, MLB Insider on Fox and
from the MLB Network. Jason lack Camp four is gonna
join us later on the show. We'll get his take
on this weird Colin Kaepernick work count news that came
down yesterday midway through our show, which we reacted to
(01:06):
will react to today where some of the Kaepernick camp
are claiming, Hey, why are we working out on a
Saturday not a Tuesday? Rick Buckar will join us. Look,
the Lakers look good. Sons are better. Lakers look good.
Huge upset in college basketball, as Walter Walter McCarty, former
Kentucky Wildcats second year head coach at Evansville is hometown.
(01:30):
Evansville goes in to Lexington and gets the victory over
the uh the number one ranked Wildcats. A lot to
get to, but let's start with this Astro's controversy. Okay,
Mike Fires used to be a picture for the Houston
Astros in two thousand seventeen, and look, is there confirmation
(01:50):
bias to it? I'm sure there is. There's long been
rumored to be some sort of sign stealing by the
Houston Astros, but Mike Fires came out. Is like they
used high speed cameras. I know I was there. I
actually feel bad about it and I'd like for it
to change. Here's Astro's general manager Jeff lu Now being
(02:13):
asked point blank if he knew anything about the team
potentially stealing signs. Were you aware of any of this?
Of these allegations going on at all, Just yes or no.
I mean specifically, I'm not I'm not going to get
into exactly what I knew or anybody knew at this point. Um. So,
I mean, we're just gonna have to wait and and
(02:33):
and see what. I'm sure there will be an appropriate
time to answer that question directly. I'm not trying to
avoid it. Um. I just think at this point, um,
we are you know, we're gonna investigate it and figure
out what the facts are and then we'll respond after that.
Mm hmmm, mm hmmm, mm hmmm. I'm not going to
(02:56):
respond at this time because you respond right if the
answers no, the answer is no. It's always gonna be
now and about it. Nothing. Um, he was given a
little bit of a parachute there in the Did you
know anything about the allegations? Sure, anyboy the allegations. I
(03:16):
mean they called me and said, do you know anybody
these allegation? Do you know anything about this? And then
or did you know about did you guys steal signs?
Did you know that you were stealing signs? Was there
a high speed camera used? And I understand that in
baseball it is actually not illegal to steal signs, it's not.
(03:37):
It's stealing signs is a lot like counting cards in Vegas.
You know, counting cards, that's what Rayman did, right. County
cards in Vegas is not illegal. It is not. It's
not illegal under federal local laws, provided that there's no
(04:00):
card counting device or player or person assisting the player
in counting cards. It should be pointed out that casinos
will kick you out. They have the right to do
so if they believe you are counting cards. But it's
not actually illegal to count cards. Nope, it's not appreciated,
(04:23):
which is a lot like sign stealing, unless you use
an external device, which is exactly like what they're accused
of doing with the Houston Nastros. Nobody's saying when you
got a runner at second, they could decide for the
sign touch their shoulder, you know, oc curved balls coming. No, no, no,
that is an age old practice. But the the Astros like, look, maam,
(04:44):
we just use our cameras to study if you're tipping pitches.
We just look at how you're holding the glove. Okay, okay.
And to two people who say, hey, listen, it's baseball.
This is part of the game's meanship of baseball. I
would say gamesmanship is a misdemeanor, is a don't do
(05:08):
that again? Is that you do it again? We're gonna
throw out your best player's head. This is misdemeanor as
opposed to using the camera makes it felonious. By the way,
one of my favorite words in the English dictionary felonious.
It's bad and it sounds even worse. It sounds uh
(05:28):
very um nefarious. Felonious is nefarious another great word. So
lot I tells you, tells you exactly what you need
to know. Of course you knew about it. Of course
you knew the allegations right there. Of course you knew
about it. Did you do anything to stop it? Were
you the one who started it? Who was the one? Like?
(05:50):
All that stuff will eventually come out. We're sure that
they were doing it, and I'm guessing they're going to
use the Patriots defense, which is not actually a good
one because unlike the Patriots defense, which was, hey, we
use the cameras, but we use the camera. For years,
there was no law that said we couldn't use cameras
to go from sideline to to the game camera. Why why,
why can't we the law was behind the technology a
(06:11):
little bit. In baseball, the law is not behind the technology.
You're not allowed to use an iPhone and you're not
allowed to use any sort of no devices in there,
even fitbits. Man, I got twelve thousand steps. Oh that's
a fastball. Can't you use a fitbit? Like baseball wants
to maintain the core of their integrity and got electronics
(06:34):
out of it, and that's how they do it. But
just like cowd card card counting not being illegal, sign
stealing is not illegal unless you use that external device,
and that's where it gets nefarious. All right. I was
driving in the car the other day and uh, in
(06:54):
southern California. I don't know how it is. You know,
most most places it's spent four miles an hour over
to nine mile hours miles an hour over. I was
on a road and I passed a police officer and
my son said it was sixty I was driving, see,
And he's like, are you gonna get pulled over? I said,
(07:14):
I don't think so. He said, why not? You're speeding?
I said, technically I am speeding, But am I speeding
to the point where I need to be pulled? Over
and given a speeding ticket. Answer is no. He's like, well,
what is the what is the number? Like, there's no
magic number. Not they would have anything to do with
them having to reach their monthly quota. No, no, no,
no no no that no quotas and writing speeding tickets anyway,
(07:40):
that would be um nefarious invarious Yes, Doug Otli show
here on Fox Sports Radio. But there is in baseball.
There is gamesmanship. You are It's it's like throwing at
a guy. You know, look, if you throw it a
guy and you hit him in the hip, let's Baseball's
baseball be throwing a guy and you take trying tomahawk
(08:01):
his head. Now the sudden, we're gonna come to blows.
If you're going into second base and you have a
takeout slide where you go, you're you're a little slow
to get down and you get your hands in the
air and you're just booky book boogy. But if you
slide a yard off the bag spikes up trying to
(08:22):
decleate the guy, Now the sudden, we're coming to blows.
Just like when you're behind the wheel of a car.
I was like, look at southern California, the traffic is
never great. When it is great, most roads you go
seventy four to sixty five, you're good, you know, eighty
five are over. They're usually are gonna ring you up. Yeah,
(08:43):
that's about how it goes, you know, just stating around
the speed limit. That's the difference here. So to two
people who are brushing this off as it's baseball, and look, baseball,
same thing with steroids. You've heard people go they took
greenies out of the game. People weren't hitting sixty and
seventy home runs when they're using greenies. They've been using
(09:04):
greenies forever. Baseball is boring. You need sometimes you need
a little little amphetamine. I'm joking sort of. But the
idea of performance enhancers, like it's the difference honestly between
steroids and protein powder. Like, look, you have to work
(09:25):
hard for either. Now, that's the one thing about steroids
is people think you just inject yourself the steroids and
all of a sudden you jump to the moon. Like, now,
what it does give you more testosterone, your performance will
be better. But also it gives the ability to train
more often, build more muscle, and replenish your energy quicker.
And the art of the other substances that you can take,
(09:47):
the protein, the creating, all those other things. They're they're
not going to stimulate you the way that synthetic testosterone is.
But there's a difference, and everybody knows it. Everybody knows it.
There's a difference between misdemeanor and felony. There's a difference
between protein powder and protein chicks. And I'll gotta go
take my check, and I gotta eat a bunch of beef,
and I gotta drink water and carry you know, the
(10:07):
guy that carries around that jug of water and steroid guy.
The astros taking it to this degree becomes steroid guy.
The astros taking it to this degree become the guy
who's driving you know, ninety on the freeway going what
everybody speechs, the non denial denial from their general manager tells, y'all,
(10:30):
I need to know, and now it's baseball's job to
figure out what to do with it. But when you
win a World Series, when you compete for another one,
everyone's saying that you're stealing signs and you're do so
using electronics. If you were in Vegas and people say
you were counting cards and you got caught with an
artificial card counter, you'd end up missing a finger in
(10:53):
some in some gutter. There's there's operating the gray, and
then there's blatantly blaking the rules. And I think we
all know what the astros are accused of. Be sure
to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show
weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio a app con
(11:15):
Kaepernick sued the league and then took a settlement. And
I'm sure because he was the face of this and
still is the face of the movement. It's different than
a creed. It just is anyone who thinks it's not
kidding yourself and whatever. His level of toxicity has died down,
level of popularities honestly died down. But the NFL, like
(11:39):
I don't know, like if I'm running a team, like, hey,
are we allowed to bring him in like in in
the documents that you guys signed. Does this mean he's
not gonna play in the NFL anymore? Do we have
to have like clearance to have him do this? You know,
like what what's kosher? And I'm sure the NFL got
enough of this, Enough of these calls like, you know,
(12:01):
let's just we'll pay the freight, will throw the workout,
and what happens with it is all right, let's do
it on a Saturday. Hold on, now, you got allw
these teams playing on Sunday. Why don't you do it
on Tuesday? I'll workouts are on Tuesday. Yes, workouts are
on a Tuesday usually because everybody else is off. But
that's for each individual team. We want to do this
for all teams. This would cut into their Tuesday workouts
(12:23):
when they try out a kicker, they bring up a
practice team guy, and they try and figure out if
they want how they want to feel their roster for
the next week. I actually think sometimes the truth is
more bizarre than fiction, and it is in fact explainable,
right said, like, if you really think that the NFL,
who already, who already gave some kind of financial settlement
(12:44):
to Colin Kaepernick, is gonna sit there and try and
control this thing and keep him out of the league again,
or if they kept him met a league as a
controlling body the first time, that would be silly, and
obviously that would probably be a violation of whatever they signed.
He also mentioned Steve weish did. Some NFL executives said
they preferd Saturday because of logistical reasons regarding regional scouts.
(13:07):
Most teams are looking at this as a first step
towards having Kaepernick in for more private workouts in the
off season, not signing him right after Saturday's workout. Now, look,
if you wows them, and if you're Kaepernick and you
really want to play in the league, like a dude,
any opportunity. I didn't want to do that nonsense league
that went under. I don't really want to do the XFL.
I want to play in the NFL. And if you
(13:29):
show up in great shape and zipping that football around,
moving around, you're like, hey, let's bring him in on
a Tuesday. Why not? This is just one of those
like are we allowed to do this? Are we Is
it okay? Are we going to get a call from
the commissioner? Are we gonna like? No, bring him in.
I'll tell you what here, this is how we You're good.
This is the pee wee This is the pre wee
(13:50):
Reese moment. Pee wee Reese. Of course, play with Jackie Robinson.
They're playing in Cincinnati one day day game. Cincinnati's fans
were rolling all kinds of insults. Jackie Robinson, Pewee Reese
went and put his arm around him. He's one of
he's a Dodger, and the rest of they say is history.
It's not quite as warm and as cuddly from the NFL,
(14:13):
but considering he sued the league, in the league is like,
we know you sued us, we know you made us
look bad, look like we're colluding against you. You're struggling
to get a workout with teams. We'll pay for everything.
You show up Saturday in Atlanta, We'll do the whole thing.
It is not nefarious as some people would lead you
to believe. Be sure to catch the live edition of
(14:34):
the Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three p m.
Easter noon Pacific. All right, let's welcome in Tom Verducci,
who does an amazing job MLBON Fox covering the World Series.
You also see him on the MLB Network. Help me
out here, Tom, Like again, I not only respect your work,
but all of your sources. And this feels like the
(14:56):
worst kept secret ever is that the astros are healing
signs like that. No one talks about this stuff like
like they have recently, but the high use of the
high speed camera changes things. What's the general reaction to
Mike fires outing his old team yesterday. Well, the fact
you just mentioned there where you have a player on
(15:18):
the record from a team admitting they had a system
in place, and that's pretty big. I mean, as you mentioned,
it has been kind of the worst kept secret. Never
remember the timing here, Doug to this is um and
I think it was I don't want to say rampant,
but not uncommon in baseball that several teams were using
whatever edges they could find. Essentially, what happened was the
(15:40):
technology outpaced Baseball's ability to police it in terms of
putting cameras and ballparks. I could pick up catch the
catcher signals. Teams would actually scout the sign sequences and
the catchers used for certain pictures, so they would know
that going into the game, train a camera on those signs,
and in real time there would be monitors right next
(16:01):
to the dugout and in the astro's case, they would
bang out a trash can, so the hitter would know, hey,
that's a change up coming. So what happened was this year,
because it was prevalent, Rob Manford the MLB commissioners to
basically take all the cameras away at least from foul
pole to foul poll. Now those monitors are not next
(16:22):
to the dugout there back in the clubhouse. They're on
a little delay. I think it's about ten or fifteen
second delay, and there are security agents from MLB that
monitor that. So again we're talking about this system that
fires is talking about those twenty seventeen It's much harder
to pull that off, and I think because it was
easy to pull off in seventeen that's why it was
(16:44):
so prevalent. It was still illegal though, right The use
of high like this is one of those things where
there's always been gamesmanship in trying to steal signs, But
when you start to use electronics, even in two thousand seventeen,
that would be deemed illegal totally. It was at least
unethical and everybody would know that. Remember twenty seven team
was also the year that Manford find the Red Sox
(17:07):
for using the Apple Watch to communicate signs to the
batters and the Yankees for you improper use of a
bullpen or dugout phone for the same reason. Uh, the
Astros were fine for having an employee surveill with a camera.
The Indians and Red Sox dugout. So all this is
going on in sixteen and seventeen h and if there
weren't specific protocols against it, everybody knew that it was unethical.
(17:30):
Like this has been going on literally since nineteen hundred. No, no, no,
I I look, I get the idea of like stealing signs,
but again, once you stay, it's like it's like counting cards, right,
Stealing signs is not illegal. Counting cards is not illegal.
Both are frowned upon. But when you start using electronics,
now a sudden, it becomes illegal. Didn't The Yankees this
(17:51):
year accused the Astros of whistling in the dugout. Yeah,
now that was interesting. They did say, um that they
heard whistling in the dugout, And generally that basically means
somebody is stealing signs and they're relaying to the hitter
by virtue of the whistle or lack of a whistle,
whether it was off speed or fastball. Now, what I
(18:11):
had heard from Houston sources myself is the Astros. No,
they've had this reputation out there, so they were whistling
just to get inside the heads of the Yankees. They
didn't have a sign stealing scheme going on, but they
know reputation preceded themselves. I saw Astro's players on the
basis faking to the hitter that they had the catcher
(18:33):
signed by a shake of a head or a hand signal.
They were literally messing with the Yankees, trying to get
inside their heads because they're aware of themselves and what
their reputation is. That's how they knew or all this.
Chapman was throwing that slider that tos alto a hit
that hasn't landed yet. That there was it was it
was a fake. You will you could have hit that one. Uh.
(18:55):
Tom Verducci joining us on the Doug Gottlip Show. Okay, Well,
Clayton Kershaw is seen as a postseason choker, right, he
just is. And he had a I think a three
or a four run lead twice. In Game five, they
gave up five home runs. It was the never say
die Astros in the World Series two thousand seventeen. I've
heard enough he will say, Well, it's really hard to
(19:16):
do the trash can thing in the World Series with
all the noise. My guess is there's a plan. You know,
there's a plan for everything. They got silent counts in
the NFL. There's gotta be a way to to send
the sign to to the hitter. Um what the what's
the Dodgers reaction to this story? Um? Like you not
terribly surprised. I'm not sure there and I know they
(19:39):
won't do this. They won't make the leap to say
that's the reason we lost the World Series. I mean,
let's face it, it got to a Game seven, and
that was a Dodger stadium. Uson obviously won that game,
and ironically, it was a game in which you Darvish
was tipping his pitches by the way he was putting
the ball in his glove, and that's old fashioned sign
stealing or tipping. Uh, that's not Darvish and felt because
(20:00):
that was something that the Houston hitters could see without
the use of any devices. That's a different story. But
I think because of the game seven was at home, Uh,
this thing is not as bad. But I went back
to and look, and this doesn't prove anything, but it
frames to mind that once this story is out there, right,
everything is kind of kind of tainted because as a fan,
(20:21):
you can take it as far as you want, because
we really don't know literally how much it affected the
outcome of the game. But I went back and looked
at the swing and miss rate on changeups for the
Houston Astros in the seen postseason at home, because that
pitch to changeup is designed literally full hitters, right, get
guys out front. But if you know it's coming, you're
(20:43):
not going to be fooled, and they're swinging. This rate
on changeups in the postseason was a fraction of what
it was for the opponents. It was a fraction of
the regular season average. For major league teams, they were
either really really good, I mean super good for those
four week stretches, the gainst the Red Sox, the Dodgers,
um who else was in there in the in the Indians.
(21:04):
I believe the Yankees, I'm sorry the Yankees, that they
were really good for that three or four week stretch
or maybe there was some help, but again, how much help,
we don't know. But if there's any help, that's wrong.
Yeah that this this reminds me of like Lance Armstrong, right,
because the story of Lamps Armstrong was like, oh, Anstrom,
I've never cheated like Okay, Well it's in it's in
(21:24):
cycling where everybody we we believe everybody is dirty. And
for you to be the best writer when everybody else
is dirty, just it. It defies logic, right. And if
everybody's trying to steal signs a little bit and you're
having the most success and you say we're not doing
it at all, that I don't believe. I just I'm sorry,
I don't buy it. Um. The question is, you know,
(21:48):
could they use it on the ruck? Could they use
their technology on the road? Could they use it in
the playoffs? And um? And and obviously was was anybody
else using this technology or were they the only ones?
Like all of this stuff is super interesting. Um. What's
Manfred's reputation in terms of his heavy handedness. Well, I
think the one case that really stands out is he
(22:10):
banned the general manager of the Braves for life from baseball,
John Cappellella. That was for infractions related to cheating the
system on international free agency signing. That was the one
time he came down quickly and really hard. But his
nature as a lawyer is to be very deliberate, build consensus,
take his time on issues. So you know, I don't
(22:32):
think there's any indication right now that he's going to
be super quick or have he handed on this. I
think he has to find out a couple of things here.
He obviously has to find out if there was true intent,
what was it, and if he can to identify individuals
now if that happened, that's a bigger story. I mean,
I think there's probably some sort of fine, maybe loss
of his draft pick here if there is any kind
(22:54):
of a proof, but individuals, especially Doug, if there's something
that happened this year with the protocols in place, if
the commissioner can tie an individual to a rigged scheme
against rules that where he Warren clubs, he could be
talking about banning someone for life. I'm not saying that's
where it's going, but that's the kind of way that
(23:15):
he has. All Right, a couple a couple of quick ones,
as that we're not yet to hot stove League time.
Garrett Cole getting the pitch from C C. S. Matthew
to be a Yankee. He actually owns a house kind
of down the street from me, and he's from Orange County,
and there's been you know, the Angels are trying to
get a stadium built, and they obviously have Trout in
the contract for the next millennium. UM best guest on
Garrett Cole. Well, first of all settled in. It's gonna take.
(23:39):
It's gonna be at least till January, maybe in February.
He's going to sign the richest pitching contract in the
history of the game. And I think the Angels are
the front runners for Garrett Cole because it is home,
because there's a tremendous need for that team. As you know,
I actually think their core position players is pretty darn
good to the most exciting players in Trout, Kani, a
(24:01):
real exciting project coming up in Joe Adele, and the
best defensive shortstop in baseball in Simmons. So they desperately
meet pitching, and this guy is tailor made for them.
They can't continue to waste the prime of Mike Trout.
They have to go get pitching. He's their number one target. Um,
All right, what about the Nationals? They win the World Series,
(24:22):
but now the sudden you know, They're best hitter is
on the market, Their best picture is on the market.
What do the Nationals look like at the start of
the season. I like their chances to have Strasbourg back
in that rotation. Uh. This guy moved his family from
California to Washington recently in the last year or two.
He really loves it there. Um. I think is the
case sort of like Kershaw with the Dodgers, the Batty
(24:44):
with the Yankees. We just redo the deal and give
him now even a bump up of what was a
really good deal but definitely market value. Brandella is a
more difficult case. I think he's an interesting player because
Anthony is a guy who I think will sign or
could sign a shorter term and deal for a huge
A A V. Think about that contract the Dodgers offered
(25:04):
Bryce Harper. It's like, yeah, we want you, but we
don't want you for thirteen years as much of for
like your four or five best years. I could see
Randon doing that with a team like the Dodgers. I mean,
he'll have a ton of interest and seems like the
White Sox, the Rangers, the Nationals to bring him back. Um,
but I'm I don't think he's going to Everybody's gonna
look at the Aeronauto contract. But I think he might
(25:25):
be a guy who says, give me your best offer
over five years and it will be a gigantic average
annual value would be interesting considering how long we later
waited last year for that deal and then the Trout
deal got done actually beforehand, and what happens this year
last thing. Bruce Bocci is an institution um in all
of California, right with the Pods and of course with
(25:46):
the Giants. Were you won three World Series? Gabe Kapler
who kind of struggled, He struggled early on and then
kind of fit in with culturally. Maybe in Philadelphia, that's
the guy they tapped to replace him. What your reaction
to Gabe Kapler being kind of reunited with far Hans Heidi, Yeah,
you hit it right there. I can't say I was surprised,
(26:08):
because right from the get go, I thought he was
the favorite because Farhand really loved working with him with
the Dodgers. And what was interesting to hear Farhand talk
about how people in the Phillies organization, including I guess
some players were texting him or calling him to let
him know how highly they thought of Gabe Kapler. And
I've always been to school Doug that, and I know
(26:28):
there's a lot of managers out there who have made
an impact first year, Alex Cora last year, Rocko Bill
Delhi this year. I get that, but generally I like
managers on their second job, and I think Gabe will
be better. You're right, he wasn't a great fit in
Philadelphia two straight years. Uh. They really didn't play well
at the end of the season. I like a team
(26:49):
that plays their best baseball late in the year. I
think it is a reflection on the manager. I think
it'll be better at this time around. But I think
that connection and it is obviously a friendship, not just
the p fessional relationship, but a good friendship where they
can work together. That's good for the Giants and know
starting out as those two the general manager of the
president of Baseball ops uh in the manager are on
(27:10):
the same page. Awesome stuff. That's Tom Verducci and of
course you seem on MLB networking on Fox Sports covering
Major League Baseball. Tom, a really amazing day to be
talking about baseball, especially a World Series played three seasons ago.
But it's a huge story and we really appreciate your insight.
You guys like always a pleasure. Thank you, Tom Verducci.
(27:32):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports
Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app.
Search f s R to listen live. Let's welcome to
Jason Lockham for covers the NFL for CBS Sports and
CBS Sports dot Com. The Kaepernick workout, what do you
(27:53):
make of it? I mean, if teams were interested in
Colin Kaepernick, they could have going about this in their
own way. UM. But I think if you're the NFL
and this is now going on three years and you're
involved with the players coalition in a movement that that
(28:15):
he started, that isn't going away, um, and Colin Kaepernick
as a UM, as a story, as as a uh
you know, an advocate for change, as you know, someone
who's on a mission and going from community community doing
his work, that's not going away. So I think the
league reached a point where, um, they felt like there
(28:39):
had to be some measure taken or some sense of
closure on this, and you know, some way of extending
an olive branch of some sort. And we could argue
how meaningful that will end up being in the end,
But of of I think kind of checking themselves or
clearing themselves forty fifty years down the road when people
(29:04):
are writing about this time in American history and American
sports history, and and and at least somewhere in the
first four paragraphs now is but the NFL did extend,
you know, to Kaepernick an unprecedented opportunity to schedule a
workout for him and invite all thirty two teams, something
that had never happened before. Um, that's my take on it. Yeah,
(29:27):
I think it's weird. It's weird because, like you said,
they've been able to work him out for three years,
they want to call him in and work him out.
My my guess And and this is again you're an insider.
I'm not I'm an outsider. I'm just guessing. Is it
possible possible Jason that because of the lawsuit there was
like wait a second, are we allowed to do this?
(29:47):
Like and they get you get a call like can
we just bring him in? Or is there like how
do you want to do? How do we do the
been a free agent for three years like that? Do
you think he ends up in somebody's him like like
next year, because that's what they're saying this is about,
It's about next year. Yeah, I mean, it's it's possible
(30:08):
there's gonna be a whole another crop of quarterbacks and
they're all gonna be younger than him, and they've found
a way to systematically ignore him for three years. So
I don't know that this workout changes it. Um. I
mean again, like some people are like, well, maybe teams
didn't want to bring them in because it be a
distraction and blah blah blah blah. I mean, how many
(30:28):
people you think are at the Jacksonville Jaguars team facility
on Tuesday when there's you know what I mean, when
there's no practice, Like, I don't know that I'd buy that,
But okay, if this somehow gives them cloak of cover
and we will all just send somebody. So it's not
like we've got to answer a bunch of questions about
it individually. I mean maybe, but there's not like Eric
Reid's playing every week, you know what I mean. Like
(30:49):
there's guys who did the exact same thing. Man, I know,
Michael Bennett like isn't now, but there still are a
few guys who were doing it around the league. Um,
but yet this guy you want to do it? Nobody
felt like they could bring him in for a workout
because it would be so much of a distraction. I
don't know, I don't know, um, but look, at least
(31:10):
now people will have sat there with their own stop watches,
with their own eyes, and with their own notepads and
recorded all this and they'll bring it back to their facilities.
But trust me, the guys who are going to be
at this thing are not going to be decision makers.
Buy and large and maybe a few pro personnel director
types or pro personnel assistance, but it's not gonna be
the kind of guys who could actually get him in
the building. But maybe it facilitates more conversation, and maybe
(31:32):
he looks good enough that it does foster an environment
where somebody is willing to bring him in, um, you know,
to compete for a job as a backup or whatever
next year. But I'm not sure. Man. They're having more
and more success with young, cheap you know what I mean, backup,
and he's gonna he's thirty two. I don't know. Look,
I I think it's a bunch of place. He could
(31:53):
be a really good backup right in Houston, in frankly,
in Baltimore. Obviously that thing went sideways. Uh, you know,
anywhere there's like a quarterback who has a potential to
getting hurt because they run around um Seattle. But he
had said previously he didn't want to be a backup,
has his own personal narrative change, and he wants, you know,
he's okay with that, and and he wants to just
(32:16):
be ready and ready to get the started. Ready that
that will maybe be the most interesting thing in the
in the interviews Jason lacamp Ford joining us CBS Sports
dot com. So Adam Gaze, like the working rumor in
the NFL was like he's one and done, he's out
of here. The Jets mid season or a little after
mid season, they beat the Giants and like, no, no, no,
Adam Gaze is definitely coming back next year. Most Jets.
(32:37):
This is the most Jets move ever. Yeah, we have
no plans to fire anybody. I mean, no one ever
does before Thanksgiving, by and large, except for extreme examples.
I mean, look, anytime you're putting out votes of confidence
eight games into a guy's tenure, there's there's something. There's
some there there, and they have ample time to turn
it around. But the idea that nothing that could happen
the last two months for a team that's been that mad,
(32:59):
and for a team whose quarterback has struggled for large
stretches of games and weeks on end. The way Sam
Donald has it, it's not a m offensive coordinator everything else. Think.
I mean, you know, no offensive line and no tight ends,
and I get it, but it's still not a pretty picture.
They still have to play the Bengals and the Dolphins them, Like,
what if they lose both of those? You really they're
(33:20):
gonna be like they would keep him? Really? Come on, now,
you know, I think it's a it's a it's a
misguided attempt. They don't protest too much. They're sending out
messages to anybody they can in the media to try
to play take their fan base. But the problem is
that team is probably not gonna get that much better,
and it's not going over really well with the fan base.
And I think the the fervor is only going to
(33:41):
be ratcheted up now because now they feel like their
voice isn't being heard. But but fret not, your voice
is being heard, and your voice will be heard at
the turnstiles and will be heard in all the empty
seats down the stretch. Um And no, I'm far from
convinced that there's no chance they make any changes there.
How could you be? Uh said? Dwayne Haskins was named
the starter for the rest of the season. This is
(34:04):
like a week and a half after he wasn't ready
to play. He's the interim head coach that he's not
even ready to be a candidate. Now he's the quarterback
for the rest of the season. Um. The story that
that the Redskins, I don't know which is a leak
you're building, right, the Redskins of the Jets you would know,
but they both they both have leaks like the Titanic. Um,
(34:26):
So is Dwayne Haskins working hard now? Because everybody said
before he didn't know the playbook. Adrian Peterson grabbed him
after one of the games and said, dude, you gotta
learned to playbook. Has that changed? I mean, look there,
they reached a point in their season where you're going
to play the young quarterback. The only reason not to
play him would be that he might get hurt. And
you know what that without offensive line. That's absolutely true.
(34:47):
But let's be real about what Bill Callahan wants. All
Bill Callahan wants to do is run the football. I
mean he'll tell you just listen, like he I don't
think he could utter the word pass passes a four
letter word to him. So they're gonna run at a
time they're getting day guys back, don't don't protect the
quarterback in that respect. The team is so bad around
him that you you're not going to be able to
base much of an evaluation on the final stretch of
(35:08):
games here because they're they're woefully overmatched for the most part. Um,
he's got one receiver he can rely on and that's it.
I mean, no tight ends. And again even running backs
guys has never been healthy, and Adrian Peterson is not.
I mean he starts there, but like he's not getting
on the field pretty much anywhere else, Like he just wouldn't.
So it's not a good situation for the kid. But
(35:30):
they reached a point where the you know, why not,
I guess essentially at this point, and especially knowing that
the owner would want to see him, you're the interim coach, Like,
what are you really gonna do? Um? Is it Atlantic?
Could he saved his job? I mean, I guess it's
just one week. Yeah, but they really I know, but
(35:51):
he did he like he basically did the Tin Cup.
They get all the change out of your pocket and
put in the other pocket. They put offensive guys coaching
defensive guys, and they go down and beat and they
go to turn around and beat the Saints. Um, they
do have three home games in a row, four home
games remaining. They got some potential wins granted a trip
to the Niners, which probably won't won't end well. Uh,
(36:12):
is there any chance he holds on. The owner really
really likes it was a human being and really really
believes in him as a leader. But it's a results
based business and they're they're down up. They've they've they've
I mean, this is two straight years where they've rendered
everything after like October fift irrelevant and obsoletely you know
what I mean, Like when you're messing around one and
five and you know two and seven, like come on now, um,
(36:34):
and they weren't competing. The problem is they just haven't
been competitive weekend week out. I mean, the turnover, the
scoring differential at halftime for them for the year is staggering.
So I mean, is it possible, Yeah, but is it probable? No?
Because I think that was their super Bowl last week. Um,
(36:55):
But you know, having a couple of different guys calling
the defense. Now, I don't know that that's going to
carry them, you know, to where we're looking at them
and oh my god, they went you know, five and
two down the stretch or whatever, like if something like
that happened. He really likes Dan Quinn. But I would
say this, even if they that happened, there would be
Thomas to Mitchrall something, you know what I mean, there
would be there would be some substantial change coming to
(37:16):
continue to roll the same thing back there now, you know,
four years removed from them being at their heights, and
think that this is going to change drastically, Um, I
think we'd be pretty naive. Um. All right, So, speaking
of the dreaded vote of confidence, I don't really know
what Jerry Jones had to say about Jason Carrett and
kind of he was effused in his praise of Mike Zimmer.
(37:37):
Mike Zimmer does not coach the Dallas Cowboys. He coaches
the team that beat the Dallas Cowboys used to Yeah,
he used to coach there. Um kind of, I mean,
it's it's and then then he comes out goes The
guy gets the most criticism is always the head coach
and the offensive coordinator then then the quarterback or whatever
kind of tried to preface it. Um, but I you know,
(37:58):
outside of a collapse, I can't see them not winning
that division. What's the status of Jason Garrett and Dallas.
I don't think they're winning that division. I don't think
they're going to the playoffs. Um. I would have told
you that in September, and I would have told you that,
and maybe we did talk when they were three and out. Um,
because they haven't played anybody yet, and when they play
real teams is when they tend to to be exposed. Um. Look,
(38:20):
Jerry doesn't have to say anything. Jerry didn't give the
guy an extension, didn't really want to entertain it. And
he letting somebody who he's looked at as as the
ideal guy, right, because there's that's the past, the least
resistance like that, there's no pushback, Like they know what
they have there and he's going to facilitate what they
want and they're they're very hands on obviously, but again,
(38:43):
the results bas based business. Jerry thinks he's got a
roster that could compete with anybody's in the league. And
that's where they have a super Bowl. They're not going
to the super Bowl. I don't think they're going to
the playoffs. And even if they do, when they're one
and done, that's not the team he thinks he has,
So him him not reinvesting in Jason Garrett's at everything.
And if they're not who he thinks they should be,
(39:04):
then here we're going elsewhere. Who would be the guy,
Lincoln Riley? It's a squeaky door. You got there? Well,
I thought the dog was gonna go crazy, so I went.
I went outside for a minute. But it's like twenty
five degrees and I'm in shorts and a T shirt.
I called an audible dog, And now I'm now I'm
back in the four year. I appreciate I appreciate the
(39:27):
suburban grit of being able to walk outside and stay
on the stay on the phone with us. Um. Now,
the Browns gotta win over A good look. The Bills
are a good team. Grand The Bills had to miss
two field goals in order them to win that game,
first home win of the year. How important is this
Thursday night game? Oh? I think it's big the Bills. Um,
(39:47):
you know the Bills. I don't know that I'm going
to crown the Browns off. That the dirty little secret
to the Bills is for three weeks they can't stop
anybody running the ball or like six point seven yards
per carry. Um. You know, the Eagles couldn't run the
ball all year until they play them. Washing didn't run
the ball all year until they played them. Um. And
obviously the Browns gauge them. So UM. I still think
the Browns have a lot of issues. You watch their
(40:08):
play calling in the red zone. It's puzzling. Um, Baker
mayfield from the seven place in the one yard line,
they couldn't get a touchdown. You don't refuse and yet
that's who they've been all year. Yet he refuses to
kick field goals and what are always close games. Um,
wants nothing to do with the three points. But then
you also can't get in the end zone. Uh, there's
(40:28):
still you know, there's still some stuff there that gives
you pauls if they simplify their attack and just rely
on the two running backs they have and play the
way Pittsburgh plays, which is okay, the quarterbacks gonna throw short,
intermediate quick stuff. Get it out of there. Um, and
we're gonna beach with their defense and we're gonna grind
you with their run game. Then then I think Cleveland,
you know, could find a little joy in the second
(40:49):
half of the season. I still don't think anywhere close
to get out of the hole that they're in, and
I think this is a really bad spot for them. Um.
But if they come out showcase in Baker and it's about,
you know, look at the plays we can call and boy,
we got a feed, O'Dell, then you can you can
watch the takeaway totals for the Steelers keep climbing because
and you watched you know what, and Hayward and Bud
(41:10):
Dupree get off against a very poor offensive line when
it comes to past protection. So I'm interested to see
if they play for style points or if they just
play for grid points. And if they play for grid points,
then you know that I think it's a close game,
but I still favor the Steelers. I get that the
Texans didn't play last week and the Ravens did and
Lamar Jackson put on a show, but it's also against
(41:32):
the Bengals, who they're a high school team right there,
just awful. Um, But it does feel like Deshaun Watson
somehow is getting completely lost in this m v P discussion.
Does that change if they can win on the road
on Sunday? Sure, I mean, we really shouldn't even start
having to be discussion. And why I think what we're doing.
What we're doing is like because Lamar Jackson, there was
(41:53):
some criticism of him because he was kind of hit
and miss or even early in this season, but hit
obviously early against the Dolphins and Cardinals, but then we
forgot about the games in the middle where he was
not particularly good. Now he's been great the last two weeks.
I think that's how we've gotten into this m VP thing, like, oh,
he's the MVP. Like we still have a ways to
go here, But but it is interesting that we're there's
(42:13):
several guys having great seasons, Mahomes having a great year
that we're not paying attention to. Yeah, I mean, well
Mahomes missed. I mean he basically missed three weeks. You know,
when you're only playing sixteen games, that's a that's a
pretty good chunk. And the problem for Mahomes is he
could have done a lot of things better than last year,
but still not produced last year year like he wasn't
throwing fifty touchdown again, Like it wasn't happening. I'm sorry.
(42:33):
It's happen three times in the history of the game.
It's not happening back to back seasons. Uh No, I
think it's I think it's three guys who stand out
for me. It's Lamar, It's the Sean, and it's Russell,
and you can shuffle them around any given week. But
you know, I don't think it's going to some of
other defensive side of the ball. Um, there's not a
you know, Mike Thomas is doing Mike Thomas things, but
(42:54):
he's been doing those things for a while, and you know,
I don't think that's going to carry the day. And
I love with McCaffrey and Dalvin Cooker doing but I
don't think you can make the case they're more spectacular
than these other guys. Um. The one thing I would
say about Lamar is right now, he's like a top
five quarterback and a top ten running back. He's tents
in the league in Russian, he's average in seven yards
(43:14):
and carry. Um. When you look at the totality of
that and the fact that like, let's be real, like
he throws to a tight end. He throws to a
rookie receiver who's still got a bad foot, you know
what I mean, who can't practice a lot of weeks
that has missed, you know, a bunch of games himself.
And that's really it, you know what I mean, mouth boykin,
I don't know if he's an NFL player yet, you
know what I mean. Like Ayton Hurst was picked in
the first round, but he's the third best tight end.
(43:36):
Like it's not like he's out there with Mahomes cast
or but but like listen, looks he's been better than
we thought. He's not throwing, He's not Rogers, Mahomes, Russell Wilson.
You know, he's frankly not not Brady like he's I
would agree with you on the running back thing. He's
(43:57):
basically show Heyotani right like where he's He may not
he's not the best throwing quarterback, but he's the best
running quarterback by a mile. And he's been good enough
as a thrower so that it can accentuate the positives.
And he does hit those deep balls. He's an incredible
deep ball thrower. Yeah, I mean, look, he does not
turn the ball over. His decision making is pristine um.
(44:18):
And it's not again, it's not like he's got a
multitude of options. It's it's it's really him playing point
guard and spreading it around enough because you know, good
teams know most of the time it's going to Andrews
and so you've got you know, Hollywood Brown and that's it. Um,
that's their offense. It's and it's it's all based around
Lamar and matchups and changing the match point in RPOs.
I mean, he's a bully to see things at the
(44:41):
line of scrimmage and know what to do with the ball,
when to pitch it, when to hold it, when to
throw it. It's pretty special, no question. Jason Knocking for
a CBS Sports dot Com their NFL insider. Jason, thanks
so much for joining us. You got any
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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