May 13, 2020 • 37 mins
Doug discusses the NBA exploring options to return to live games and why NBA players are starting to realize the hard truth about not finishing the 2019-20 season. He also responds to Dan Le Batard about the argument regarding Deshaun Watson and Mitchell Trubisky. Plus, NBA Insider Chris Mannix joins the show to share what the primary concerns are for NBA players playing games again during the pandemic.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for the Doug Gottlip Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug Gotli Show on Fox Sports Radio. This
from Ajor war Zanowski participants on a Board of Governor's
call Tuesday with NBA Commissioner Adam Silver left the virtual
meeting feeling increasingly positive about the league's momentum towards resumption
and play this season. Sources told espn uh He was
(00:45):
on l A radio show earlier and said everyone involved
in the owners, the refs to coaches of players are
starting to accept the risk that will come with return
to play, but understanding that this virus isn't going away
anytime soon, not in the near future, and without a vaccine,
not even by next season. So like, look, I understand
(01:05):
that some people came into the week or in the
last couple of weeks, like, well, you know, we just
backed the NBA season, we start next year like, yeah,
that you're gonna have the same problems next year. Up
until this point, there have been doubts about the NBA
coming back because a large portion of the NBA season
have been played. Half the league knows they won't be
(01:26):
in the playoffs, and with most of the teams also
know they don't really have a chance of winning the championship.
Playing without fans limits the amount of money they're able
to make, and and it only increased costs, and players
already agreed to a certain pay cut, so they felt
comfortable knowing the money that was still going to come
in and the money that was not. It feels like
(01:50):
the tone is really starting to change, and you look
at the message the last couple of days, and Adam
Silver late last week told the NBA Players Association the
CBA is not built for an extended pandemic. Look, I
know that, I know that Lebron James has been associated
(02:10):
with some brilliant business moves. Uh the investment in partnership
with Beats by Dre, the investment in partnership with Blaze Pizza,
all of his partnerships with with Nike, right, and which
is gonna make him if he's not a billionaire, he
may never be a billionaire. A hundred millionaires plenty of
(02:30):
cash that he can't he can't, no one can really spend.
But it's we're getting to the point where people are
starting to realize, like, you know, there's some long term
ramifications and the world is gonna look different when we
come out of this. And we can't have is the
(02:52):
greed of hey, I'm only gonna pay at full rate.
I already took a pay cut and I'm I'm just done.
We're not doing it for fans. We're not doing it
to make a We're not getting like, yeah, I don't.
And I've heard people say, look, if the NBA comes back,
the ratings will be high, but that doesn't mean the
ad dollars will be will add up because there's just
(03:13):
not that many companies that can pay normal going rates.
I understand that this is for lack of a lack
of the time to break down the full understood your
full give you a full understanding of Sometimes you do
things that don't make your money immediately because in the
(03:35):
long term you make a ton of money. It's the
same reason I'm a proponent of guys going to and
playing for in college. Yeah, we don't make money that year, okay,
but at the end, you make more money. You protect
yourself with a degree, you give yourself, a basketball family,
you give yourself. But more than anything, you create a
(03:55):
name and a brand for yourself that you just can't
establish if you go to the G League, if you
in an NBA bench when you're right out of high school.
You you do that for the long term benefits. And
that's what the NBA needs to do. And and this
idea that they that you're walking into danger, you are.
(04:16):
It should be pointed out that in all candor, you
were always walking onto a basketball floor not knowing if
the other guy was sick. There was always some inherent
dangers from some loon in the crowd, right Like we
thankfully haven't had anything that's happened in the rest of
the world happened in a basketball arena. But it's not
(04:37):
crazy to think that there is at least a percentage,
however low, of that sort of danger. Correct. So this
idea that we we can only go and play when
there's no danger whatsoever, that that never really exists in
the past and definitely is not going to exist now
That doesn't mean going headlong and being you know and
(04:58):
just saying the hell with it. You know, I'm gonna
lick every uh, you know, every pole and every chair.
You know, you're not gonna do the Rudy Gobert and
making a joke of it. No, No, you need to
have reasonable protective measures. But you also need to understand
(05:19):
that by getting back to work, you put yourself in
modestly more danger than you had previously, but you also
give your sport and your business a chance to succeed
long term. Yes, yes, billionaires have money, and these these
owners have a lot of money. That's what's allowed them
(05:40):
to own these teams. Many of the teams operate at
a loss in terms of day to day earnings. They
just do not as many with the news with the
new TV deal. But guess what happens if you don't
play any more games, They're gonna have to give back
some of that money from the TV deal. You can't
get money for games that weren't played. You just can't.
(06:01):
That just doesn't happen. You know, if ESPN and TNT
have to give back money to the cable companies, well
guess where that money is going to? Come from the
stuff that was supposed to be paid to you because
you did not provide the games that you promised you
were going to provide in your contract. At some level
(06:22):
you need to hold up your endto the bargain. And
you say, well, I can't play until there's no danger.
But then you can't play that we we can't pay you,
you know. And and while I've I've seen some vitriol
on TV, heard it on radio, and of course you
see it on social media. These billionaire owners they can
(06:44):
just you know, keep paying guys. And why do they
have why do these why the millionaires have to play
when the billionaires, like, do you understand that the bills
don't just stop coming in? Not only do the some
are billionaires, not all the liionaires, but not only do
the billionaires have bills that keep coming in. They can't
(07:05):
get the PPP relief, But the Lakers got a four
million dollar check they had to return because people made
them feel bad. I don't know, It's not like the
Bus family has some safety net. They have a they
have a deal with with Sports Net l A. And
they're not providing the games that they had promised to provide.
(07:26):
So they're not going to get that money. In addition
to which I'm sure there's other bills, including their new
practic facility, Like you're paying debt service on that, you're
paying for upkeep on that, you're paying your You gotta
pay your employees even though they're not working. You got
all the insurance, you got your And when I say employees,
aren't even talking about the players who know they're not
getting paid as much as they did previously, They're still
(07:48):
getting paid. They just took a haircut and you have
no income and you have people say, well, then you
know you're the value of the team. Like that doesn't
help you. In order to capitalize in the value the team,
you gotta sell the team. You do you can't be
you can't do the Frank McCourt when he was with
the Dodgers and take loans on the value of the team.
(08:09):
Like the people can't do that anymore. Plus, who are
you going to sell a team to right now? Hey,
do you want to spend Do you want to spend
three billion dollars? Yeah, I'd love to. But here's the thing.
I lost my wealth in the stock market of the
last couple of months, so I'm gonna pass. An addition
to which whoever billionaire wants to buy the team is
losing money, like Bezos is the only dude who seems
(08:32):
completely isolated from all of these losses. And I'm sure
at the heart of it, like even Bezos, at some point,
it's going to be exposed because whether they have supplier
problems or whatever. So I I understand that we should
be proceed with caution. But when you say proceed with caution,
(08:57):
remember the first part is proceed. And I don't believe
this is in southern California, and I'm sure wherever you
are stug otlip Show on Fox Sports Radio, there is
there's a group of people my age that are like,
I'm just kind of done with the quarantine thing. I'm
not saying we're done. I'm not saying go out and
(09:18):
gather socially and have big parties and you know, make
out with strangers and and try and create herd immunity
that way. Like, no, I think there's a reasonable way
in which we can proceed. And it feels like the
NBA players, especially the stars, have either figured it out
from their own business senses, or you've had enough people
who work with them in business, like yo, you got
(09:40):
to get back to plan. You gotta get back to plan.
You like the big house, you like all the cars,
you like the private school. You like those things, but
guess what those have. There's bills attached to them. And
at some point, all the different things that you have
that you love that you want to keep, you gotta
(10:02):
pay bills. You gotta pay taxes on them. And you
can't do it without income. Plus with every day you
push it back, you push back next year season, which
pushes potentially back the chance of a financial windfall from
sponsors that right now are downtrotting. Be sure to catch
the live edition of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays
(10:24):
at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio and the I Heart Radio a app. Chris Mannox
joins just from Assai covering the NBA. Mannix Where are
we right now? Adam Silver said, two to four weeks
to try and figure things out. Um, it feels like
there's momentum, but it feels like they're always so super
cautious to get back after it. Yeah, they are super conscious. Dog.
(10:47):
And look that there are two things that I have
taken away from the last few days from you know,
what you hear and what you what people are telling you. Um,
there doesn't need to be any kind of urgency to
put a date on next season. And that's important here
because if you don't give a damn when next season starts,
(11:07):
you can keep kicking the can down the road all
you want. I mean, the word now is two to
four weeks. That could be four to six weeks very
easily if there seems to be a glimmer of optimism
a little bit further down the road. So the NBA
kind of telegraphing that you know, next season, it's perfectly
fine if they go in December or January. Uh might
even be optimal because of that. UM, I think that
(11:29):
sends a pretty strong message about their intentions and their
ability to go forward next season. The other thing that
doesn't I don't think it's enough attention is you know,
you know, the the league's willingness to allow you know,
Team Orlando and ultimately teams in l A to do
asymptomatic testing, and that that's always been you know, kind
of a concern for the league that they would be
(11:49):
viewed as you know, an organization hoarding tests or you know,
the rich getting benefits the league, you know, getting more
than what the average person is going to Yet you know,
asymptomatic testing is still a problem in this country. You
can get test if you're you know, showing symptoms, but
not everywhere you can get the asymptomatic testing that some
(12:10):
people want. The NBA doing that, I think that moves
the goalposts a little bit. That that says to me
that that they're more willing to go forward with a
scenario that would require them to have problem neighbored a
fifteen thousand tests before you know everybody else has access
to them. Chris Mannish showing us in the Dug Outlip
Show on Fox Sports Radio. Again, Look, there's actually more
(12:32):
access to testing than than than sometimes we were led
to believe. But I do understand understand, and then maybe
that's one we don't understand. Doug don't do it. I mean,
like I get it, Like it's a subjective debate at times,
like access to testing. But look, I live in Massachusetts
and and look it's a pretty progressive stay as far
as where things are getting testing moving. Like I had
to spend an hour yesterday like kind of searching a
(12:54):
place to get testing because I've I've never been symptomatic,
but I would like to get some forward tests. So
it's not OWN think it's not easy right now to
go do that. Chris mannis joining us on the Doug
Otlip Show. All right, So if they come back, and
I think they will, how will it be? Well, it's
it's a good question because I think, Look, it's pretty
clear that Adam Silver wants to protect the integrity of
(13:18):
the playoffs. And by doing that, by saying that, I
mean he wants to have everything be the same number
of games. And and there's a sense within people that
I've talked to in the league that if you can
just keep the number of games the same, you don't
have to have the whole asterisk champion. You can say
that this is a legitimate champion. Now, it's probably gonna
(13:39):
involve Las Vegas, may involve Disney World, but I doubt it.
But the key is here, can they line this up
so they can play a seven game series series is
beginning in that first round. If they can do that,
and that's something that's very important to a lot of
people in the league office, Um, you know they can,
they'll be able to protect the integrity of it all.
(14:00):
How many teams will get in the playoffs? Everybody? No,
I mean, look, I think in an ideal world, you'd
find a way to allow teams that are on the
outside looking in, like the three teams in the Western Conference,
the Sacramentos in New Orleans and somebody else there that's
three game Portland. Maybe they're like three games back. You
create an opportunity. But one concession I think the league's
(14:23):
gonna make is say, look, if you can only do
the six team that are in right now, this is
the way it is. Um, It's it's not ideal. They'll
be half a dozen teams piste off about it, but um,
the most important thing is a complete postseason, you know,
not the end of the regular season. Doug Gotlieb show
here on Fox Sports Radio. Um. Yeah, Like I think
the whole thing is fast. And then Kevin Durant, who
(14:45):
you know, like he was getting close to being ready
to play now where two months removed from that, and
then you'd have another month and a half before they
play again. He's not He's why aren't they gonna gonna
let him play? Well? I mean it's like I've said
written this for over a month. I did something with
Rich Kleiman about a month ago where we talked about this,
and it just seems bonkers to bring Kevin Durant back.
(15:07):
I mean, you've got a guy that was, in the
minds of some rushed back into an intense playoff scenario
so we could play in you know, Game five of
the NBA Finals, and that may or may not have
contributed to the injury he suffered. Uh that's kept him
out all of this year. And now you're talking about
a guy that coming off what you have to say
(15:28):
is probably the most severe injury and NBA player can have.
This is gonna drop him into the most intense situation possible.
Like it might be up for debate if that next
team was a contender, but like, I don't know what
what Kyrie's help status is. You've got Jack Bob as
the head coach. You've got a team that has played, like,
you know, even without Durant, playing a total of like
(15:50):
seventeen games altogether together with Carris LeVert Spencer didn't wait,
this is just not their year. I just I just
don't think there's there's I don't know the ward is
worth the risk of bringing Durrant back when you know,
whenever next season starts, that's when your window opportunity open. Okay,
so when when next season start. I don't think they
(16:11):
start before Christmas. Um, you know, there are a lot
of people that want to do that anyway. You know,
if you got the the Steve Coonan led group of
the president down Atlanta that believes a fundamental change in
the NBA schedule is the right thing to do. But
more importantly, you know, the NBA sees what's going on
and the likelihood of crowds in the stands either being
(16:33):
allowed or fans coming back because they trust the safety
of coming back is is a long way off. And like,
if you can get you know, pushed the start of
the season to Christmas and get through most of at least,
it creates a window of possibility that that you can
get you know, that revenue back. And I thought out
Adam Silver telegraph that pretty well too when he he
surprised me when he said that the league's revenue comes
(16:56):
from from from the gates, from from fan involved purchases.
So I think that was a pretty clear message that
whatever they can do to get games played with fans,
they're gonna try to do it. Doug gotlib show, you're
on Fox Sport Trader. That's the voice of of of
Chris Mannix. Um, where why did you why the feelings
change from the players, Like what happened that the players
(17:18):
went from yeah, we're not into this too? Uh this
this group of superstars saying we need to play well,
I put this back to you to do you think
it's changed? Um, I feel like organizing a call of
some of the elite players and seemingly pushing Yeah, it
does feel like it's I mean, like, look, part of
it is location wise. I can only tell you that
(17:40):
in California it does feel it's really hard to understand
what New York has gone through. It just is this.
It's really hard to feel it now. You know, like
it's sunny, it's nice. You don't see people as sick. Um.
You know, people are they get antsy, you know California,
people that are generally outside people and and and you're
(18:02):
being told you can't be you. I think there's a
general feeling from the public that work kind of good.
There's some information, some misinformation coming out of either the
media or some reports as to the level of danger.
Um and then I think, you know, like, look, NBA
guys kind of like any athlete, they do think they're
impervious to stuff. Yeah, I kind of feel like it
(18:23):
has changed something. I could be wrong, am I. Well,
I've never got the sense that that guys don't want
to come back. And I know there's been kind of
high profile commentary like that, whether it's Shack or Mark Cuban,
But you know, of the half dozen players I talked
to you regularly about this and other subjects, they've never
said they don't want to come back. Now, it's certainly
(18:46):
not as simple as you know, whoever idea was to
send a text message out like you know, swipe left
for play, swipe right or not like that. That just
that's just dumb that that doesn't you know, take into
account the gravity of everything that goes around it. I mean,
players absolutely want to know what happens if somebody tests positive.
They want to know where they're gonna play, and you
(19:06):
know how long they're gonna have to be quarantined if
they do play in that place. But fundamentally, I think
that ninety plus percent of players have been you know,
we want to play. Now that that whole call with
the top tier guys, and that's great that they are
all on the same page. But I don't often put it.
I don't put a lot of stock in that when
it comes to you know it because Lebron and Durant
(19:27):
and Damian Lillard all believes something. It doesn't mean like
you know, Garrett Dudley and you know that the bench
guys are gonna fall right in line. Everybody kind of
looks out for themselves in these situations. But but fundamentally,
I think they've always all wanted to play in the
right circumstance. Chris Bannocks are our guests in the Doug
Outlip Show on Fox Sports Radio. Um, how has the
(19:52):
league reacted to the Last Dance documentaries? Now, It's it's interesting.
I've sort of had casual conversations with people there. Um,
it's it's entertainment, that's for sure, but it's I mean,
most of my conversations are kind of laughing at the
subjective lens that it's kind of being blasted through. I mean,
(20:12):
whether it's you know, Isaiah Thomas and you know his
exclusion and Jordan's role in it. UM. I personally think
that the the portrayal of Jerry Krause has been just brutal.
I mean, you know, Jerry Krause did some some crazy things,
especially towards the end. I mean, the idea that to
break up that team no matter what is goofy nowadays
(20:34):
and should have been goofy back then. But you don't
have a championship without Jerry Krause. He he drafted Jordan
pippenman Um, you know, made the trade for Bill Cartwright
and you know, did all those things Tony kuk coach
along the line. I mean, it just feels like it,
you know, and there are they're still crowds defenders within
the league office. I mean, he was the most likable
guy in the world, but you know, people recognize his
(20:55):
talent and his work ethic. So I just think you
you know, the when when I talk to people within
the league about the stock, it's just it's Jordan's view
want things, and that view isn't isn't always and often
isn't uh the complete truth. Yeah, I think I agree
with you, and I didn't think Jordan would be involved
(21:15):
unless at the end of it you walked away thinking,
unquestionably he's the best player. Ever. I didn't I was
I think most surprised at Scottie Pippen, while he owned
what he did, when Jordan was out the fact that
he said he'd do it again, it feels like irreparable harm. Yeah.
That that that that was interesting, like just you know,
(21:37):
it's it's owning up to it and then it's like, well,
do the exact same thing again. That that took me back.
That definitely did. I feel like they on ESPN afterwards
they were like defending him, saying, you know it's scott
all Scotty, but Scotty just dug his own grave again
when he said what he said in in that documentary.
So I don't know. I mean, there's just there's just
there's opportunity to missed sometimes that doc and I keep
going back to the Isaiah stuff, like you know you
(22:00):
could have Like I use my colleague Jack McCallum for
as an example. Like Jack was like the I mean,
he was the voice of basketball for decades at Sports
Illustrated and he covered that dream team and he's got
Jordan's on the record basically saying that he kept Isaiah
or he toltally wouldn't play without if Isaiah was playing,
like I would have liked to have seen, like just
approached Jordan with that that information, like say, well did
(22:23):
you say this? And if he says he didn't, then
you all right. Guys can say whatever they want. But
I would have liked to see, especially when it comes
to Jordan, maybe some more pointed questions that that would
be hard for him to answer. Yeah, and I wish
they would have asked Phil if he was gonna play
Pippen if they went to overtime. But yes, I mean yeah,
I thought you'd fret that that was good. That's that's right.
I think you should have asked. I wonder what he's
(22:43):
ever been only he's ever been asked, you know, he
even when he said what he said after the game,
and ever since, no one's ever asked like, hey, you
know his tie game, if he misses that were you're
gonna play him? Now, look twenty years later, you know
you can be the tough guy and going and I
was gonna play him. Use out he's out right. I mean,
doesn't mean you would have gotten an honest as or
at least you would have got gotten answered. Do you
buy that the gambling was the reason he retired as
(23:07):
just they made it seem like it was a ridiculous reach.
Uh do you buy that it was a ridiculous reach?
You know, I kind of do, because I mean, this
has been an ongoing conversation for decades and it's just
and this is where the Dot kind of alluded to it.
It's just a that's a hard it's a hard secret
to keep. And I understand there's been big secrets kept
(23:29):
within the league walls. Of course there has, but you know,
you're reminded of where Michael was in and you know,
just the scrutiny that started to get to him, the
gambling questions clearly bothered him. And then you throw in
the death of his father. I mean, I I just
but the question I would have and it's impossible to answer,
(23:49):
but you know his father hadn't passed away, would he
have kept going? Like or is that just a straw
that broke the camel's back for for Michael Jordan's I don't,
I just I don't believe, and looked nothing to redug
Like David Stern, he spent like a decade plus as
commissioner at that point, changing the league from Celtics versus Lakers,
(24:10):
Bulls versus Nicks to Bird versus Magic and doing versus
George like he was David Stern was solely responsible for
the individualizing of the game, like making it about the
player and not the team. I just can't I can't
fathom him taking the most marketable player in the league
out of the mix for almost two years because of
some gambling stuff that at this point we don't know
(24:30):
if it was any deeper than just an obsession with
the blackjack. Yeah. I I do think though that one
of the parts that was missing from, like you said,
some of the subjectivity of the documentary is it wasn't
the gambling as much as the narrative about Jordan is
he didn't pay when he loses, right, that he he
owed people money and he was just you know, I
(24:50):
get to want to get to it. And so it
wasn't that he couldn't afford it, or that he was
some sort of degenerate gambler that he would be betting
on basketball. It was that you start owing the wrong
people money and and and and that's when bad things
can happen. That part was was missing. I still I'd
like to believe every you know that if a secret
(25:11):
that big would not be a secret this long, so
I'd like to believe that they're telling the truth, but
I'm not sure it was a true painting of why
people thought it was a possibility because they skipped out
on the part where he didn't pay his debts. Yeah,
I feel like if it I just feel like if
it had been more of an abrupt and for him there,
(25:34):
if there wasn't kind of a build up towards it
and and and more of something, there wasn't so much
momentum towards that and then the death of his father,
I would probably feel more like the conspiracy stuff would
would be closer to the truth or there would be
more to it. But you know, just reliving it, you
remember and you reread some of the articles at the
time about what he was saying in the weeks and
(25:56):
months that led up to that, I just feel like
this might be one of those case is where it
really is just a wild conspiracy. Great stuff. A Manx
day Safe Thanks so much for joining us. Be sure
to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show
weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific. Dan Lebottard
is a super talented guy. He has a radio show
(26:17):
on another network he chose to respond to. Take a listen. Now,
when a race conversation makes an appearance and a black
person is filing a complaint about something, UM, this is
beyond idiotic. Is exactly the wrong response for any kind
of conversation like that. UM, not because you're not allowed
(26:38):
to disagree. You are allowed to disagree, but once you've
started a conversation with this is beyond idiotic, you're not
interested at all in hearing what anyone else has to
say about anything. So Doug Gottlieb continues, and the people
who object to this always look like Doug Gottlieb. The
people who say this is beyond idiotic always look like
Doug Gottlieb. Now you might want to accuse me of
(26:59):
racism here, but I haven't seen someone like Deshaun Watson
come into the NFL and be Deshaun Watson. I haven't
seen it before. A college quarterback who's great moving around
and can confuse Nick Sabe. And that's not something I
had seen have that kind of success in the NFL before.
And that's where race ends up playing a factor. And
(27:19):
it's not beyond the idiotic to suggest that any of
us would be guilty of any kind of biases or
um places where we have um, you know, a blind
spot on this stuff. But the problem with this is
people like Doug gottlie perpetuallyst to God's are more sensitive
(27:39):
to the idea that they're being called racist than they
are to actual racism. Like Doug Gottlieb doesn't know what
it's like to experience racism. Doug Gotlieb doesn't know what
it's like to live a life where Deshaun Watson is
going to be questioned and this is race playing a factor.
It's not racism. I don't have to prove intend to you.
(28:02):
I don't have to prove to you that Bill Polian
isn't a racist. I'm just telling you. Why do you
think that happened that Bill Polian six time Executive of
the Year sal Lamar Jackson thought he was a wide receiver?
Could it possibly be because his prototype was Peyton Manning?
His prototype looked like Peyton Manning. Why can't that possibly be?
(28:24):
Why is that a conversation that's beyond the audit. Well,
there's a couple of things here. If you want to
take the personal part, Okay, the I've never experienced racism
that's not true. I played an excelled in sport in
which I was the exception. I wasn't quick. I was
deceptively quick, right. That's I mean, like if if I
(28:46):
went through my vitals as a player and why I
didn't make it? Okay, all the stereotypes for the white
coach's son are the complete opposite of me. Yes, I
had a high basketball like you, hey, but I was
not a good I was a great athlete. I couldn't shoot,
(29:07):
which is the opposite of the coach's son who is
the best shooter and is is is unathletic. I had
a thirty seven and a half inch vertically. I made
myself into a tremendous athlete. I didn't make it because
of my lack of athleticism. And when you're white in basketball,
you actually absorb a ton of negative stereotypes. You just do.
(29:27):
The idea that racism doesn't exist against white people in
basketball is at at at minimum uninformed and at most laughable.
But even that, I don't think I didn't make it
because I was white. I didn't make it because I
couldn't shoot. That's it, period. Because nobody cares the idea
(29:47):
of people caring. I I understand that we want to
look at a snapshot of something that happens in Georgia
and think that sort of racism pervades professional sports. Tony
Romo said it best. Football is a meritocracy. Meritocracy, you
can't if you you're only you're doing the political thing
where you're throwing out half the well. This white quarterback,
(30:07):
Tony Romo is a tremendous quarterback, probably a Hall of famer,
might not get into the Hall of Fame. He was undrafted.
Now is he of Hispanic descent? Yes, but generally Tony
Romo is seen as a white guy. Okay, he went undrafted.
Dak Prescott went the fourth round. Did he go in
the fourth round because he was because because he was black?
Or do you go in the fourth round because he
was a runner in college that struggled with accuracy and
(30:30):
was probably a late second early third rounder but then
had a d U I am I missing something? Do
we just not have a draft which Mike which which
Kyler Murray was drafted number one overall? Was he drafted
number one because he was black? Now he draft numb
one overall because despite the fact that he's only five ten.
He's got a crazy arm and crazy like spiky senses
(30:50):
as a football player. The the idea that a general
manager or even Bill Pollian like, Yeah, Bill Pollian likes
Peyton Manning not because he was white, because he's a
great quarterback and he'd seen what it takes to play
quarterback in the NFL. And if if Dan Leabatar wants
to say, we haven't seen a quarterback do this, yes
we have. We saw Mike Vic, we saw Vince Young. Alright,
(31:12):
We've seen other quarterbacks. We've seen Johnny Manziel do that
to Saban and Johnny manzel style. It didn't work in
the NFL. You can't run around back there and just
throw it up and make plays. The problem with with
with if you want to get to Lamar Jackson, there
was all kinds of issues that no one seems to
be reporting that no one seems they all get caught
(31:32):
You get caught up into race beating. It's gotta because
he's black. No, it's because he was wildly inaccurate. Lamar
Jackson fan, did you watch him play Mississippi State in
the ball game? I did. He sucked And then nobody
can get him on the phone for a workout. He
didn't want to run and show people how fast he was.
He didn't want to throw up the combine. And historically
we have seen slash players Cordell Stewart. Oh yeah, by
(31:54):
the way, all this hub of about one charger scout,
one charger scouts that are you gonna run with the
wide receivers And it was kind of laughingly joke although
they just want to see him run because he's a freak.
Suddenly became I gotta movon wide receiver because Bill Polian's like, look,
I consider it because long term it hasn't worked. It
(32:15):
just hasn't. That's my thing with Lamar is it hasn't worked.
Whether it's Tebow or Vince Young or r G three.
It doesn't matter color of skin. These guys that are
primarily runners that struggle to throw. And all we had
was the data of watching him play in college and
anytime they played a good defense with maybe when they
(32:35):
were trailing Clemson big on the road and he's single
handedly brought him back. That is the exception against a
very good Clemson team on the road. I watched the game.
He could be wildly inaccurate. Go back and watch like
Lamar Jackson does a great deep ball and then a
guy will be wide open over the middle and he'll
just airmail it. And he has improved and they have
(32:57):
changed the offense, but we've we've actually never seen a
guy run the ball this much in the NFL. Why
because they get hurt. They didn't miss on Teddy Bridgewater.
The reason Teddy Bridgewater slipped in the draft because everybody
said he was fragile and guess what happened. His knee
fell off. Gino Smith didn't fall in the draft because
he was black. He fell in the draft because he
was an arrogant you know what, that couldn't get along
(33:20):
with people and wouldn't accept it, wasn't a hard worker.
And guess what that all was accurate and that's what
led to him losing his starting job in the NFL.
We're just as critical of Johnny Manzel, like what are
we doing here? It's the most important position in the sport.
We're hyper critical of everyone who tries to get those jobs.
And I mean Baker Mayfield got ripped for running for
(33:43):
the cops because he was having a beer at the
University of Arkansas in the off season to the party
and for grabbing his junk and people like my colleague
and all last season when he played poorly. Dude, NFL
g MS and if you don't want to accept this,
you just don't want to deal with reality. NFL GM
sit down and go, hey, do we how are you
(34:04):
good enough the quarterback position? If not, we gotta fix it.
You know why, because if we don't fix the quarterback position,
you're out of a job. You're out of a job,
You're have a job, and most importantly, I'm out of
a job. Nobody cares about race. They don't do You
know how? I know because talk to him. Pick up
the phone, get out of your studio, get out of
the clevelander, and actually call somebody in the league and say, hey,
(34:24):
has it ever come up in any conversation? Well, subconsciously,
bull crap? Subconsciously. Russell Wilson didn't go in the third
round because he was black. Russell Wilson won the third
round because he was tiny and he was inaccurate his
first three years before he transferred to Wisconsin, and there
was some talk of would he play baseball? Remember that's
why n C stayed showed him the door, because he
wouldn't stop playing baseball played an accurate portrayal of it.
(34:47):
Almost half the league's quarterbacks are black. Nobody's trying this.
This is not. This is not forty years ago. Look.
Forty years ago, people used to think mixed race marriages
were somehow taboo. Forty years ago, homosexual uity was taboo. Dude,
times have changed. The most decorated American athletes, maybe of
(35:08):
the of the twentieth century right have a sex change
and a reality show. Like we're in a completely different
era and you're you're talking about past issues with the
NFL at the quarterback stession, which were in it. When
Warren Moon came out, he should have been in the
NFL immediately he went to the CFL tour it up
and then went to the NFL and tore it up
(35:29):
and was is a Hall of Famer. But like, I
don't know if, like, do you really think that you've
got like Ryan Pace is sitting there going, you know,
I like Deshaun Watson, I like Pat Mahomes a lot,
but he's but but he's black. So I'm gonna take
Mr Drobiski if the Bears aren't good this year, if
they don't fix the quarterback position. Ryan Pace gets fired.
(35:54):
Like that's the reality of it. And the reason that
people passed on Mahomes was, you know, there was some
miss meetings, some personal stuff, you know, let's just say
college stuff, some things in his background. They felt like
and I and I talked to several people in the
Bears or they're like, look higher ceiling the mitch. He
(36:16):
can just do some things that are freaky. But you know,
Texas Tech didn't win when he was there, and it's
not all because of the defense. Is because he was
Lucy goosey with his footwork, Lucy Goosey with his prep.
He just played just baled out and and coming from
that air raid system that there haven't been guys that
are success stories. Nine other teams missed, but they've missed
on white quarterbacks. They missed on black quarterbacks. And if
(36:39):
you think for one second that an NFL GM that
has worked his entire professional life to get that opportunity,
because that's what all these guys have done, do you
think for one second to go, wait, wait, wait, he's black.
I don't know, I don't know, Like what are we doing?
So you can sit here and tell me racism racism,
(36:59):
racial is them. You don't know you're white. You don't
know what racism is like when you're wrong. I do
know what it's like, and too. I also pay attention
to the NFL. Talk to people in the NFL, and
they all will tell you, like, dude, I don't care.
I don't you hear every straight or gay, married or single,
black or white hispaniccasion don't care. Can you stand in
front of forty five other men on a game day,
(37:22):
fifty two other men in a game week. Can you
stand in front of them and lead them? Can you
be accountable? Can you be prepared? Can you win us
a game? First and ten eight yards to go, we
need a touchdown? Can they all look you in your
eye and believe in you and then go accomplish the task.
That's it, That's what the position is about.
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for the Doug Gottlip Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug Gotli Show on Fox Sports Radio. This
from Ajor war Zanowski participants on a Board of Governor's
call Tuesday with NBA Commissioner Adam Silver left the virtual
meeting feeling increasingly positive about the league's momentum towards resumption
and play this season. Sources told espn uh He was
(00:45):
on l A radio show earlier and said everyone involved
in the owners, the refs to coaches of players are
starting to accept the risk that will come with return
to play, but understanding that this virus isn't going away
anytime soon, not in the near future, and without a vaccine,
not even by next season. So like, look, I understand
(01:05):
that some people came into the week or in the
last couple of weeks, like, well, you know, we just
backed the NBA season, we start next year like, yeah,
that you're gonna have the same problems next year. Up
until this point, there have been doubts about the NBA
coming back because a large portion of the NBA season
have been played. Half the league knows they won't be
(01:26):
in the playoffs, and with most of the teams also
know they don't really have a chance of winning the championship.
Playing without fans limits the amount of money they're able
to make, and and it only increased costs, and players
already agreed to a certain pay cut, so they felt
comfortable knowing the money that was still going to come
in and the money that was not. It feels like
(01:50):
the tone is really starting to change, and you look
at the message the last couple of days, and Adam
Silver late last week told the NBA Players Association the
CBA is not built for an extended pandemic. Look, I
know that, I know that Lebron James has been associated
(02:10):
with some brilliant business moves. Uh the investment in partnership
with Beats by Dre, the investment in partnership with Blaze Pizza,
all of his partnerships with with Nike, right, and which
is gonna make him if he's not a billionaire, he
may never be a billionaire. A hundred millionaires plenty of
(02:30):
cash that he can't he can't, no one can really spend.
But it's we're getting to the point where people are
starting to realize, like, you know, there's some long term
ramifications and the world is gonna look different when we
come out of this. And we can't have is the
(02:52):
greed of hey, I'm only gonna pay at full rate.
I already took a pay cut and I'm I'm just done.
We're not doing it for fans. We're not doing it
to make a We're not getting like, yeah, I don't.
And I've heard people say, look, if the NBA comes back,
the ratings will be high, but that doesn't mean the
ad dollars will be will add up because there's just
(03:13):
not that many companies that can pay normal going rates.
I understand that this is for lack of a lack
of the time to break down the full understood your
full give you a full understanding of Sometimes you do
things that don't make your money immediately because in the
(03:35):
long term you make a ton of money. It's the
same reason I'm a proponent of guys going to and
playing for in college. Yeah, we don't make money that year, okay,
but at the end, you make more money. You protect
yourself with a degree, you give yourself, a basketball family,
you give yourself. But more than anything, you create a
(03:55):
name and a brand for yourself that you just can't
establish if you go to the G League, if you
in an NBA bench when you're right out of high school.
You you do that for the long term benefits. And
that's what the NBA needs to do. And and this
idea that they that you're walking into danger, you are.
(04:16):
It should be pointed out that in all candor, you
were always walking onto a basketball floor not knowing if
the other guy was sick. There was always some inherent
dangers from some loon in the crowd, right Like we
thankfully haven't had anything that's happened in the rest of
the world happened in a basketball arena. But it's not
(04:37):
crazy to think that there is at least a percentage,
however low, of that sort of danger. Correct. So this
idea that we we can only go and play when
there's no danger whatsoever, that that never really exists in
the past and definitely is not going to exist now
That doesn't mean going headlong and being you know and
(04:58):
just saying the hell with it. You know, I'm gonna
lick every uh, you know, every pole and every chair.
You know, you're not gonna do the Rudy Gobert and
making a joke of it. No, No, you need to
have reasonable protective measures. But you also need to understand
(05:19):
that by getting back to work, you put yourself in
modestly more danger than you had previously, but you also
give your sport and your business a chance to succeed
long term. Yes, yes, billionaires have money, and these these
owners have a lot of money. That's what's allowed them
(05:40):
to own these teams. Many of the teams operate at
a loss in terms of day to day earnings. They
just do not as many with the news with the
new TV deal. But guess what happens if you don't
play any more games, They're gonna have to give back
some of that money from the TV deal. You can't
get money for games that weren't played. You just can't.
(06:01):
That just doesn't happen. You know, if ESPN and TNT
have to give back money to the cable companies, well
guess where that money is going to? Come from the
stuff that was supposed to be paid to you because
you did not provide the games that you promised you
were going to provide in your contract. At some level
(06:22):
you need to hold up your endto the bargain. And
you say, well, I can't play until there's no danger.
But then you can't play that we we can't pay you,
you know. And and while I've I've seen some vitriol
on TV, heard it on radio, and of course you
see it on social media. These billionaire owners they can
(06:44):
just you know, keep paying guys. And why do they
have why do these why the millionaires have to play
when the billionaires, like, do you understand that the bills
don't just stop coming in? Not only do the some
are billionaires, not all the liionaires, but not only do
the billionaires have bills that keep coming in. They can't
(07:05):
get the PPP relief, But the Lakers got a four
million dollar check they had to return because people made
them feel bad. I don't know, It's not like the
Bus family has some safety net. They have a they
have a deal with with Sports Net l A. And
they're not providing the games that they had promised to provide.
(07:26):
So they're not going to get that money. In addition
to which I'm sure there's other bills, including their new
practic facility, Like you're paying debt service on that, you're
paying for upkeep on that, you're paying your You gotta
pay your employees even though they're not working. You got
all the insurance, you got your And when I say employees,
aren't even talking about the players who know they're not
getting paid as much as they did previously, They're still
(07:48):
getting paid. They just took a haircut and you have
no income and you have people say, well, then you
know you're the value of the team. Like that doesn't
help you. In order to capitalize in the value the team,
you gotta sell the team. You do you can't be
you can't do the Frank McCourt when he was with
the Dodgers and take loans on the value of the team.
(08:09):
Like the people can't do that anymore. Plus, who are
you going to sell a team to right now? Hey,
do you want to spend Do you want to spend
three billion dollars? Yeah, I'd love to. But here's the thing.
I lost my wealth in the stock market of the
last couple of months, so I'm gonna pass. An addition
to which whoever billionaire wants to buy the team is
losing money, like Bezos is the only dude who seems
(08:32):
completely isolated from all of these losses. And I'm sure
at the heart of it, like even Bezos, at some point,
it's going to be exposed because whether they have supplier
problems or whatever. So I I understand that we should
be proceed with caution. But when you say proceed with caution,
(08:57):
remember the first part is proceed. And I don't believe
this is in southern California, and I'm sure wherever you
are stug otlip Show on Fox Sports Radio, there is
there's a group of people my age that are like,
I'm just kind of done with the quarantine thing. I'm
not saying we're done. I'm not saying go out and
(09:18):
gather socially and have big parties and you know, make
out with strangers and and try and create herd immunity
that way. Like, no, I think there's a reasonable way
in which we can proceed. And it feels like the
NBA players, especially the stars, have either figured it out
from their own business senses, or you've had enough people
who work with them in business, like yo, you got
(09:40):
to get back to plan. You gotta get back to plan.
You like the big house, you like all the cars,
you like the private school. You like those things, but
guess what those have. There's bills attached to them. And
at some point, all the different things that you have
that you love that you want to keep, you gotta
(10:02):
pay bills. You gotta pay taxes on them. And you
can't do it without income. Plus with every day you
push it back, you push back next year season, which
pushes potentially back the chance of a financial windfall from
sponsors that right now are downtrotting. Be sure to catch
the live edition of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays
(10:24):
at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio and the I Heart Radio a app. Chris Mannox
joins just from Assai covering the NBA. Mannix Where are
we right now? Adam Silver said, two to four weeks
to try and figure things out. Um, it feels like
there's momentum, but it feels like they're always so super
cautious to get back after it. Yeah, they are super conscious. Dog.
(10:47):
And look that there are two things that I have
taken away from the last few days from you know,
what you hear and what you what people are telling you. Um,
there doesn't need to be any kind of urgency to
put a date on next season. And that's important here
because if you don't give a damn when next season starts,
(11:07):
you can keep kicking the can down the road all
you want. I mean, the word now is two to
four weeks. That could be four to six weeks very
easily if there seems to be a glimmer of optimism
a little bit further down the road. So the NBA
kind of telegraphing that you know, next season, it's perfectly
fine if they go in December or January. Uh might
even be optimal because of that. UM, I think that
(11:29):
sends a pretty strong message about their intentions and their
ability to go forward next season. The other thing that
doesn't I don't think it's enough attention is you know,
you know, the the league's willingness to allow you know,
Team Orlando and ultimately teams in l A to do
asymptomatic testing, and that that's always been you know, kind
of a concern for the league that they would be
(11:49):
viewed as you know, an organization hoarding tests or you know,
the rich getting benefits the league, you know, getting more
than what the average person is going to Yet you know,
asymptomatic testing is still a problem in this country. You
can get test if you're you know, showing symptoms, but
not everywhere you can get the asymptomatic testing that some
(12:10):
people want. The NBA doing that, I think that moves
the goalposts a little bit. That that says to me
that that they're more willing to go forward with a
scenario that would require them to have problem neighbored a
fifteen thousand tests before you know everybody else has access
to them. Chris Mannish showing us in the Dug Outlip
Show on Fox Sports Radio. Again, Look, there's actually more
(12:32):
access to testing than than than sometimes we were led
to believe. But I do understand understand, and then maybe
that's one we don't understand. Doug don't do it. I mean,
like I get it, Like it's a subjective debate at times,
like access to testing. But look, I live in Massachusetts
and and look it's a pretty progressive stay as far
as where things are getting testing moving. Like I had
to spend an hour yesterday like kind of searching a
(12:54):
place to get testing because I've I've never been symptomatic,
but I would like to get some forward tests. So
it's not OWN think it's not easy right now to
go do that. Chris mannis joining us on the Doug
Otlip Show. All right, So if they come back, and
I think they will, how will it be? Well, it's
it's a good question because I think, Look, it's pretty
clear that Adam Silver wants to protect the integrity of
(13:18):
the playoffs. And by doing that, by saying that, I
mean he wants to have everything be the same number
of games. And and there's a sense within people that
I've talked to in the league that if you can
just keep the number of games the same, you don't
have to have the whole asterisk champion. You can say
that this is a legitimate champion. Now, it's probably gonna
(13:39):
involve Las Vegas, may involve Disney World, but I doubt it.
But the key is here, can they line this up
so they can play a seven game series series is
beginning in that first round. If they can do that,
and that's something that's very important to a lot of
people in the league office, Um, you know they can,
they'll be able to protect the integrity of it all.
(14:00):
How many teams will get in the playoffs? Everybody? No,
I mean, look, I think in an ideal world, you'd
find a way to allow teams that are on the
outside looking in, like the three teams in the Western Conference,
the Sacramentos in New Orleans and somebody else there that's
three game Portland. Maybe they're like three games back. You
create an opportunity. But one concession I think the league's
(14:23):
gonna make is say, look, if you can only do
the six team that are in right now, this is
the way it is. Um, It's it's not ideal. They'll
be half a dozen teams piste off about it, but um,
the most important thing is a complete postseason, you know,
not the end of the regular season. Doug Gotlieb show
here on Fox Sports Radio. Um. Yeah, Like I think
the whole thing is fast. And then Kevin Durant, who
(14:45):
you know, like he was getting close to being ready
to play now where two months removed from that, and
then you'd have another month and a half before they
play again. He's not He's why aren't they gonna gonna
let him play? Well? I mean it's like I've said
written this for over a month. I did something with
Rich Kleiman about a month ago where we talked about this,
and it just seems bonkers to bring Kevin Durant back.
(15:07):
I mean, you've got a guy that was, in the
minds of some rushed back into an intense playoff scenario
so we could play in you know, Game five of
the NBA Finals, and that may or may not have
contributed to the injury he suffered. Uh that's kept him
out all of this year. And now you're talking about
a guy that coming off what you have to say
(15:28):
is probably the most severe injury and NBA player can have.
This is gonna drop him into the most intense situation possible.
Like it might be up for debate if that next
team was a contender, but like, I don't know what
what Kyrie's help status is. You've got Jack Bob as
the head coach. You've got a team that has played, like,
you know, even without Durant, playing a total of like
(15:50):
seventeen games altogether together with Carris LeVert Spencer didn't wait,
this is just not their year. I just I just
don't think there's there's I don't know the ward is
worth the risk of bringing Durrant back when you know,
whenever next season starts, that's when your window opportunity open. Okay,
so when when next season start. I don't think they
(16:11):
start before Christmas. Um, you know, there are a lot
of people that want to do that anyway. You know,
if you got the the Steve Coonan led group of
the president down Atlanta that believes a fundamental change in
the NBA schedule is the right thing to do. But
more importantly, you know, the NBA sees what's going on
and the likelihood of crowds in the stands either being
(16:33):
allowed or fans coming back because they trust the safety
of coming back is is a long way off. And like,
if you can get you know, pushed the start of
the season to Christmas and get through most of at least,
it creates a window of possibility that that you can
get you know, that revenue back. And I thought out
Adam Silver telegraph that pretty well too when he he
surprised me when he said that the league's revenue comes
(16:56):
from from from the gates, from from fan involved purchases.
So I think that was a pretty clear message that
whatever they can do to get games played with fans,
they're gonna try to do it. Doug gotlib show, you're
on Fox Sport Trader. That's the voice of of of
Chris Mannix. Um, where why did you why the feelings
change from the players, Like what happened that the players
(17:18):
went from yeah, we're not into this too? Uh this
this group of superstars saying we need to play well,
I put this back to you to do you think
it's changed? Um, I feel like organizing a call of
some of the elite players and seemingly pushing Yeah, it
does feel like it's I mean, like, look, part of
it is location wise. I can only tell you that
(17:40):
in California it does feel it's really hard to understand
what New York has gone through. It just is this.
It's really hard to feel it now. You know, like
it's sunny, it's nice. You don't see people as sick. Um.
You know, people are they get antsy, you know California,
people that are generally outside people and and and you're
(18:02):
being told you can't be you. I think there's a
general feeling from the public that work kind of good.
There's some information, some misinformation coming out of either the
media or some reports as to the level of danger.
Um and then I think, you know, like, look, NBA
guys kind of like any athlete, they do think they're
impervious to stuff. Yeah, I kind of feel like it
(18:23):
has changed something. I could be wrong, am I. Well,
I've never got the sense that that guys don't want
to come back. And I know there's been kind of
high profile commentary like that, whether it's Shack or Mark Cuban,
But you know, of the half dozen players I talked
to you regularly about this and other subjects, they've never
said they don't want to come back. Now, it's certainly
(18:46):
not as simple as you know, whoever idea was to
send a text message out like you know, swipe left
for play, swipe right or not like that. That just
that's just dumb that that doesn't you know, take into
account the gravity of everything that goes around it. I mean,
players absolutely want to know what happens if somebody tests positive.
They want to know where they're gonna play, and you
(19:06):
know how long they're gonna have to be quarantined if
they do play in that place. But fundamentally, I think
that ninety plus percent of players have been you know,
we want to play. Now that that whole call with
the top tier guys, and that's great that they are
all on the same page. But I don't often put it.
I don't put a lot of stock in that when
it comes to you know it because Lebron and Durant
(19:27):
and Damian Lillard all believes something. It doesn't mean like
you know, Garrett Dudley and you know that the bench
guys are gonna fall right in line. Everybody kind of
looks out for themselves in these situations. But but fundamentally,
I think they've always all wanted to play in the
right circumstance. Chris Bannocks are our guests in the Doug
Outlip Show on Fox Sports Radio. Um, how has the
(19:52):
league reacted to the Last Dance documentaries? Now, It's it's interesting.
I've sort of had casual conversations with people there. Um,
it's it's entertainment, that's for sure, but it's I mean,
most of my conversations are kind of laughing at the
subjective lens that it's kind of being blasted through. I mean,
(20:12):
whether it's you know, Isaiah Thomas and you know his
exclusion and Jordan's role in it. UM. I personally think
that the the portrayal of Jerry Krause has been just brutal.
I mean, you know, Jerry Krause did some some crazy things,
especially towards the end. I mean, the idea that to
break up that team no matter what is goofy nowadays
(20:34):
and should have been goofy back then. But you don't
have a championship without Jerry Krause. He he drafted Jordan
pippenman Um, you know, made the trade for Bill Cartwright
and you know, did all those things Tony kuk coach
along the line. I mean, it just feels like it,
you know, and there are they're still crowds defenders within
the league office. I mean, he was the most likable
guy in the world, but you know, people recognize his
(20:55):
talent and his work ethic. So I just think you
you know, the when when I talk to people within
the league about the stock, it's just it's Jordan's view
want things, and that view isn't isn't always and often
isn't uh the complete truth. Yeah, I think I agree
with you, and I didn't think Jordan would be involved
(21:15):
unless at the end of it you walked away thinking,
unquestionably he's the best player. Ever. I didn't I was
I think most surprised at Scottie Pippen, while he owned
what he did, when Jordan was out the fact that
he said he'd do it again, it feels like irreparable harm. Yeah.
That that that that was interesting, like just you know,
(21:37):
it's it's owning up to it and then it's like, well,
do the exact same thing again. That that took me back.
That definitely did. I feel like they on ESPN afterwards
they were like defending him, saying, you know it's scott
all Scotty, but Scotty just dug his own grave again
when he said what he said in in that documentary.
So I don't know. I mean, there's just there's just
there's opportunity to missed sometimes that doc and I keep
going back to the Isaiah stuff, like you know you
(22:00):
could have Like I use my colleague Jack McCallum for
as an example. Like Jack was like the I mean,
he was the voice of basketball for decades at Sports
Illustrated and he covered that dream team and he's got
Jordan's on the record basically saying that he kept Isaiah
or he toltally wouldn't play without if Isaiah was playing,
like I would have liked to have seen, like just
approached Jordan with that that information, like say, well did
(22:23):
you say this? And if he says he didn't, then
you all right. Guys can say whatever they want. But
I would have liked to see, especially when it comes
to Jordan, maybe some more pointed questions that that would
be hard for him to answer. Yeah, and I wish
they would have asked Phil if he was gonna play
Pippen if they went to overtime. But yes, I mean yeah,
I thought you'd fret that that was good. That's that's right.
I think you should have asked. I wonder what he's
(22:43):
ever been only he's ever been asked, you know, he
even when he said what he said after the game,
and ever since, no one's ever asked like, hey, you
know his tie game, if he misses that were you're
gonna play him? Now, look twenty years later, you know
you can be the tough guy and going and I
was gonna play him. Use out he's out right. I mean,
doesn't mean you would have gotten an honest as or
at least you would have got gotten answered. Do you
buy that the gambling was the reason he retired as
(23:07):
just they made it seem like it was a ridiculous reach.
Uh do you buy that it was a ridiculous reach?
You know, I kind of do, because I mean, this
has been an ongoing conversation for decades and it's just
and this is where the Dot kind of alluded to it.
It's just a that's a hard it's a hard secret
to keep. And I understand there's been big secrets kept
(23:29):
within the league walls. Of course there has, but you know,
you're reminded of where Michael was in and you know,
just the scrutiny that started to get to him, the
gambling questions clearly bothered him. And then you throw in
the death of his father. I mean, I I just
but the question I would have and it's impossible to answer,
(23:49):
but you know his father hadn't passed away, would he
have kept going? Like or is that just a straw
that broke the camel's back for for Michael Jordan's I don't,
I just I don't believe, and looked nothing to redug
Like David Stern, he spent like a decade plus as
commissioner at that point, changing the league from Celtics versus Lakers,
(24:10):
Bulls versus Nicks to Bird versus Magic and doing versus
George like he was David Stern was solely responsible for
the individualizing of the game, like making it about the
player and not the team. I just can't I can't
fathom him taking the most marketable player in the league
out of the mix for almost two years because of
some gambling stuff that at this point we don't know
(24:30):
if it was any deeper than just an obsession with
the blackjack. Yeah. I I do think though that one
of the parts that was missing from, like you said,
some of the subjectivity of the documentary is it wasn't
the gambling as much as the narrative about Jordan is
he didn't pay when he loses, right, that he he
owed people money and he was just you know, I
(24:50):
get to want to get to it. And so it
wasn't that he couldn't afford it, or that he was
some sort of degenerate gambler that he would be betting
on basketball. It was that you start owing the wrong
people money and and and and that's when bad things
can happen. That part was was missing. I still I'd
like to believe every you know that if a secret
(25:11):
that big would not be a secret this long, so
I'd like to believe that they're telling the truth, but
I'm not sure it was a true painting of why
people thought it was a possibility because they skipped out
on the part where he didn't pay his debts. Yeah,
I feel like if it I just feel like if
it had been more of an abrupt and for him there,
(25:34):
if there wasn't kind of a build up towards it
and and and more of something, there wasn't so much
momentum towards that and then the death of his father,
I would probably feel more like the conspiracy stuff would
would be closer to the truth or there would be
more to it. But you know, just reliving it, you
remember and you reread some of the articles at the
time about what he was saying in the weeks and
(25:56):
months that led up to that, I just feel like
this might be one of those case is where it
really is just a wild conspiracy. Great stuff. A Manx
day Safe Thanks so much for joining us. Be sure
to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show
weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific. Dan Lebottard
is a super talented guy. He has a radio show
(26:17):
on another network he chose to respond to. Take a listen. Now,
when a race conversation makes an appearance and a black
person is filing a complaint about something, UM, this is
beyond idiotic. Is exactly the wrong response for any kind
of conversation like that. UM, not because you're not allowed
(26:38):
to disagree. You are allowed to disagree, but once you've
started a conversation with this is beyond idiotic, you're not
interested at all in hearing what anyone else has to
say about anything. So Doug Gottlieb continues, and the people
who object to this always look like Doug Gottlieb. The
people who say this is beyond idiotic always look like
Doug Gottlieb. Now you might want to accuse me of
(26:59):
racism here, but I haven't seen someone like Deshaun Watson
come into the NFL and be Deshaun Watson. I haven't
seen it before. A college quarterback who's great moving around
and can confuse Nick Sabe. And that's not something I
had seen have that kind of success in the NFL before.
And that's where race ends up playing a factor. And
(27:19):
it's not beyond the idiotic to suggest that any of
us would be guilty of any kind of biases or
um places where we have um, you know, a blind
spot on this stuff. But the problem with this is
people like Doug gottlie perpetuallyst to God's are more sensitive
(27:39):
to the idea that they're being called racist than they
are to actual racism. Like Doug Gottlieb doesn't know what
it's like to experience racism. Doug Gotlieb doesn't know what
it's like to live a life where Deshaun Watson is
going to be questioned and this is race playing a factor.
It's not racism. I don't have to prove intend to you.
(28:02):
I don't have to prove to you that Bill Polian
isn't a racist. I'm just telling you. Why do you
think that happened that Bill Polian six time Executive of
the Year sal Lamar Jackson thought he was a wide receiver?
Could it possibly be because his prototype was Peyton Manning?
His prototype looked like Peyton Manning. Why can't that possibly be?
(28:24):
Why is that a conversation that's beyond the audit. Well,
there's a couple of things here. If you want to
take the personal part, Okay, the I've never experienced racism
that's not true. I played an excelled in sport in
which I was the exception. I wasn't quick. I was
deceptively quick, right. That's I mean, like if if I
(28:46):
went through my vitals as a player and why I
didn't make it? Okay, all the stereotypes for the white
coach's son are the complete opposite of me. Yes, I
had a high basketball like you, hey, but I was
not a good I was a great athlete. I couldn't shoot,
(29:07):
which is the opposite of the coach's son who is
the best shooter and is is is unathletic. I had
a thirty seven and a half inch vertically. I made
myself into a tremendous athlete. I didn't make it because
of my lack of athleticism. And when you're white in basketball,
you actually absorb a ton of negative stereotypes. You just do.
(29:27):
The idea that racism doesn't exist against white people in
basketball is at at at minimum uninformed and at most laughable.
But even that, I don't think I didn't make it
because I was white. I didn't make it because I
couldn't shoot. That's it, period. Because nobody cares the idea
(29:47):
of people caring. I I understand that we want to
look at a snapshot of something that happens in Georgia
and think that sort of racism pervades professional sports. Tony
Romo said it best. Football is a meritocracy. Meritocracy, you
can't if you you're only you're doing the political thing
where you're throwing out half the well. This white quarterback,
(30:07):
Tony Romo is a tremendous quarterback, probably a Hall of famer,
might not get into the Hall of Fame. He was undrafted.
Now is he of Hispanic descent? Yes, but generally Tony
Romo is seen as a white guy. Okay, he went undrafted.
Dak Prescott went the fourth round. Did he go in
the fourth round because he was because because he was black?
Or do you go in the fourth round because he
was a runner in college that struggled with accuracy and
(30:30):
was probably a late second early third rounder but then
had a d U I am I missing something? Do
we just not have a draft which Mike which which
Kyler Murray was drafted number one overall? Was he drafted
number one because he was black? Now he draft numb
one overall because despite the fact that he's only five ten.
He's got a crazy arm and crazy like spiky senses
(30:50):
as a football player. The the idea that a general
manager or even Bill Pollian like, Yeah, Bill Pollian likes
Peyton Manning not because he was white, because he's a
great quarterback and he'd seen what it takes to play
quarterback in the NFL. And if if Dan Leabatar wants
to say, we haven't seen a quarterback do this, yes
we have. We saw Mike Vic, we saw Vince Young. Alright,
(31:12):
We've seen other quarterbacks. We've seen Johnny Manziel do that
to Saban and Johnny manzel style. It didn't work in
the NFL. You can't run around back there and just
throw it up and make plays. The problem with with
with if you want to get to Lamar Jackson, there
was all kinds of issues that no one seems to
be reporting that no one seems they all get caught
(31:32):
You get caught up into race beating. It's gotta because
he's black. No, it's because he was wildly inaccurate. Lamar
Jackson fan, did you watch him play Mississippi State in
the ball game? I did. He sucked And then nobody
can get him on the phone for a workout. He
didn't want to run and show people how fast he was.
He didn't want to throw up the combine. And historically
we have seen slash players Cordell Stewart. Oh yeah, by
(31:54):
the way, all this hub of about one charger scout,
one charger scouts that are you gonna run with the
wide receivers And it was kind of laughingly joke although
they just want to see him run because he's a freak.
Suddenly became I gotta movon wide receiver because Bill Polian's like, look,
I consider it because long term it hasn't worked. It
(32:15):
just hasn't. That's my thing with Lamar is it hasn't worked.
Whether it's Tebow or Vince Young or r G three.
It doesn't matter color of skin. These guys that are
primarily runners that struggle to throw. And all we had
was the data of watching him play in college and
anytime they played a good defense with maybe when they
(32:35):
were trailing Clemson big on the road and he's single
handedly brought him back. That is the exception against a
very good Clemson team on the road. I watched the game.
He could be wildly inaccurate. Go back and watch like
Lamar Jackson does a great deep ball and then a
guy will be wide open over the middle and he'll
just airmail it. And he has improved and they have
(32:57):
changed the offense, but we've we've actually never seen a
guy run the ball this much in the NFL. Why
because they get hurt. They didn't miss on Teddy Bridgewater.
The reason Teddy Bridgewater slipped in the draft because everybody
said he was fragile and guess what happened. His knee
fell off. Gino Smith didn't fall in the draft because
he was black. He fell in the draft because he
was an arrogant you know what, that couldn't get along
(33:20):
with people and wouldn't accept it, wasn't a hard worker.
And guess what that all was accurate and that's what
led to him losing his starting job in the NFL.
We're just as critical of Johnny Manzel, like what are
we doing here? It's the most important position in the sport.
We're hyper critical of everyone who tries to get those jobs.
And I mean Baker Mayfield got ripped for running for
(33:43):
the cops because he was having a beer at the
University of Arkansas in the off season to the party
and for grabbing his junk and people like my colleague
and all last season when he played poorly. Dude, NFL
g MS and if you don't want to accept this,
you just don't want to deal with reality. NFL GM
sit down and go, hey, do we how are you
(34:04):
good enough the quarterback position? If not, we gotta fix it.
You know why, because if we don't fix the quarterback position,
you're out of a job. You're out of a job,
You're have a job, and most importantly, I'm out of
a job. Nobody cares about race. They don't do You
know how? I know because talk to him. Pick up
the phone, get out of your studio, get out of
the clevelander, and actually call somebody in the league and say, hey,
(34:24):
has it ever come up in any conversation? Well, subconsciously,
bull crap? Subconsciously. Russell Wilson didn't go in the third
round because he was black. Russell Wilson won the third
round because he was tiny and he was inaccurate his
first three years before he transferred to Wisconsin, and there
was some talk of would he play baseball? Remember that's
why n C stayed showed him the door, because he
wouldn't stop playing baseball played an accurate portrayal of it.
(34:47):
Almost half the league's quarterbacks are black. Nobody's trying this.
This is not. This is not forty years ago. Look.
Forty years ago, people used to think mixed race marriages
were somehow taboo. Forty years ago, homosexual uity was taboo. Dude,
times have changed. The most decorated American athletes, maybe of
(35:08):
the of the twentieth century right have a sex change
and a reality show. Like we're in a completely different
era and you're you're talking about past issues with the
NFL at the quarterback stession, which were in it. When
Warren Moon came out, he should have been in the
NFL immediately he went to the CFL tour it up
and then went to the NFL and tore it up
(35:29):
and was is a Hall of Famer. But like, I
don't know if, like, do you really think that you've
got like Ryan Pace is sitting there going, you know,
I like Deshaun Watson, I like Pat Mahomes a lot,
but he's but but he's black. So I'm gonna take
Mr Drobiski if the Bears aren't good this year, if
they don't fix the quarterback position. Ryan Pace gets fired.
(35:54):
Like that's the reality of it. And the reason that
people passed on Mahomes was, you know, there was some
miss meetings, some personal stuff, you know, let's just say
college stuff, some things in his background. They felt like
and I and I talked to several people in the
Bears or they're like, look higher ceiling the mitch. He
(36:16):
can just do some things that are freaky. But you know,
Texas Tech didn't win when he was there, and it's
not all because of the defense. Is because he was
Lucy goosey with his footwork, Lucy Goosey with his prep.
He just played just baled out and and coming from
that air raid system that there haven't been guys that
are success stories. Nine other teams missed, but they've missed
on white quarterbacks. They missed on black quarterbacks. And if
(36:39):
you think for one second that an NFL GM that
has worked his entire professional life to get that opportunity,
because that's what all these guys have done, do you
think for one second to go, wait, wait, wait, he's black.
I don't know, I don't know, Like what are we doing?
So you can sit here and tell me racism racism,
(36:59):
racial is them. You don't know you're white. You don't
know what racism is like when you're wrong. I do
know what it's like, and too. I also pay attention
to the NFL. Talk to people in the NFL, and
they all will tell you, like, dude, I don't care.
I don't you hear every straight or gay, married or single,
black or white hispaniccasion don't care. Can you stand in
front of forty five other men on a game day,
(37:22):
fifty two other men in a game week. Can you
stand in front of them and lead them? Can you
be accountable? Can you be prepared? Can you win us
a game? First and ten eight yards to go, we
need a touchdown? Can they all look you in your
eye and believe in you and then go accomplish the task.
That's it, That's what the position is about.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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