June 11, 2020 • 43 mins
Doug thinks it’s time for MLB players to finally understand they are in a no win situation and start the 2020 season already. He also discusses the group of NBA players who are against the NBA bubble plan to continue the 2020 season and why this was an obvious outcome. Plus, former NFL head coach Marvin Lewis joins the show to tell Doug how the NFL can improve the Rooney Rule.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for The Doug Gottlip Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug Gotli Show on Fox Sports Radio. I'm
looking at this baseball thing and I'm trying to figure
out why there isn't a greater push by the players
to get back and play. And I've figured it out.
(00:43):
They are running the old lay game in baseball terms.
It's like they're facing off with Pedro Martinez and trying
to foul off as many balls as possible. Do you
guys remember Pedro Martinez. Pedro Martinez is arguably the greatest
picture of the modern generation of baseball. One more time,
(01:08):
Pedro Martinez is arguably the greatest picture in the modern
history of baseball. What was his achilles heel when he
got past a hundred pitches? When he got past a
hundred pitches, suddenly the location is just a little bit
off the nasty. Breaking ball is breaks just a little
(01:33):
bit less. The fastball loses a mile or two per hour.
But more than anything, it's the location, and you leave
things up and people put things out. So the way
in which Pedro Martinez became fallible at times in postseason
play was, Hey, let's work to count foul pitch us off.
Take some balls, even if we don't score any runs.
(01:55):
Let's just play the delay game, because once you get
to middle relief, there is no chance that the midderal
lever is going to be as good as Pedro Martinez.
And Pedro Martinez isn't as good as Pedro Martinez once
he gets past the hunter pitch hunter pitch mark. That's
(02:16):
what the MLB p A is doing. How do I know?
I read this from Bill Shakin, who covers Major League
Baseball for the l A Times. The March Agreement, struck
two weeks after the coronavirus outbreak shut down spring training,
specified how much players would be paid if the season
were canceled in the case of games being played this season.
The section of the agreement entitled Player Compensation and Benefits
(02:39):
has this language, if and when the conditions exist for
the commencement of the two thousand twenty championship season. All
players signed to a major league contract shall be paid
a daily salary rate specified as pro rated salary. The
resumption of play section of the agreement has three criteria.
(03:00):
Are you no restrictions against fans attending games, no restrictions
on travel throughout the United States and Canada, and no
unreasonable health or safety risk to players, staff or fans.
Randy Levine, who of course is the president of the
New York Yankees, said, since three of these all three
conditions have not been met, the agreement says that based
upon that those facts and economic feasibility of the moment,
(03:21):
there has to be a renegotiation on salaries. That is
not my opinion, that is the text of the agreement.
In other words, Baseball the agreement that they set it
was just three criteria. Okay, no restrictions, fans could be
there and open travel now fans can't totally be there
(03:42):
yet and um um. But there are no unreasonable health
and safety risk to players, staff or fans that we
know of as of yet. There aren't restrictions that I'm
aware of on travel within the United States. Canada a
different story, but with every passing day, more and more
(04:03):
things open up, and I would have to think that
the MLB p A is simply playing the delay game.
That's why we went from getting really close in negotiations
to don't talk about the agreement, don't sign the agreement,
don't do anything with agreement. Okay, let's propose fourteen games,
MLB goes down to fifty, then they come up. They're
(04:27):
at sixty. Now they're now they're at seventy six. They're
getting closer and closer. But the big thing is that
the MLB p A does not want to change the
pro rated salary. Well, you have to ask yourself, Okay,
what sort of leverage do they have the leverages once
(04:51):
the country opens up, if it opens up where you
can have fans at sporting events, which has already happened
at least on a small percentage small scale in the
state of Texas, well, then what then the agreement that
they previously reached two weeks after coronavirus shut everything down, Well,
that becomes valid again. But I think the part that
(05:17):
the players are miscalculating is something that happens in my business.
A great deal. People get really, really really worried about
the exact amount of money that they're gonna make. In
my business, we have agents. Not everybody has an agent.
Not everybody necessarily needs an agent. Okay, And in their
(05:40):
own mind, a lot of guys that make a lot
of money think what am I giving away ten percent
of my money? For a lot of guys at the
low end of things think why am I giving away
ten percent of my money? Well, there's a lot of
different reasons you do. So. The first part is their
conversations about you from your boss that need to be
(06:00):
softened and need to be relayed through the ear of
an agent. Additionally, an agent can legally talk about you
to a different company without any sort of tampering or
any sort of illegal activities. They can negotiate in your
uh you know, um uh. They can negotiate for you,
(06:23):
negotiate for you, and when they negotiate for you, it
doesn't conflict with your current agreement, with your current contract.
But the big thing is right, an agent protects you
not to get you next job, but if you get
fired from your current job. Now, I know an agent
(06:48):
who's a really good one who his client got a
d u I And this was brilliant agenty client got
a d u I and the cup, and he want
worked for, wanted to fire him, want to fire his
client because not just that he got the d u I,
but he didn't tell his employer and it reached the
(07:11):
blogg isphere. So the agent picked up the phone and
called the bosses and says, hey, I just want to
let you know. This is my bad. This is on
me because my client called me and told me about
the d u I and asked me to tell you,
and I failed to relay the message. That's on me.
He took the proverbial bullet for his client. That's worth
(07:36):
more than ten. We get so caught up in figures
and how much we're making when the truth is the
it's a lot like being one of these running backs
Frank Gore's of the world. Just keep staying in the
league and earning yards and collecting paychecks. The more years
of service that you play, the longer and better your
(07:57):
pension will be, the more money that you will earn.
This was MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred on ESPN making it
very clear we will have a baseball season. We're gonna
play baseball if it has to be under the March agreement.
If we get to that point in the calendar, so
be it. But one way or the other, we're playing
Major League Baseball now. One way though, this is getting done,
(08:19):
and so playing the delay game in order to earn
a percentage more than you're set to earn. That's sitting
here saying, you know, I can go I could have
an agent and maybe he can get me a better deal,
but I gotta pay him ten percent and ten percent
off the top doesn't make forget that, dude. Sometimes you
(08:40):
just take the deal even though you know there's still
some money out there. There's still some money out there.
You leave a little bit of money on the table
because you sit there and go, hey, next negotiation. We
could say we left a little bit of money out there,
and Major League Baseball's Players Association wants to leave no
dollar on any table. They believe it is their rightful earnings.
(09:07):
And they may be right, but you run the risk
of bad will. You run the risk of a a
a much shorter season, and in the end you're gonna
make less money to begin with. Right. What what happens
with these guys that work for a company that don't
have an agent usually is a boss bulls moment says
(09:30):
you don't need an agent, let's just do this deal,
and it gets done really quickly, and then you start
to realize that it's well below market value, and does
it Does it mean you won't make You know, you
won't still earn the same amount because you took off
the ten percent. Sure, but generally, generally, every contract in
(09:50):
my workplace same as your workplace. It's going to be
your You start with negotiations based upon your current salary
plus some sort of increase. So whether you have an
agent or don't have an agent, if you take less
and you think you're earning more because you don't have
an agent, you're still starting at a lower point for
your next negotiation. Everyone thinks you can save a little
(10:13):
bit of money and go on the cheap, but you
get what you pay for. And that's the same thing
with Major League Baseball's players. You're so concerned about giving
back a percentage more of the money because you already
gave back whatever on this pro rated salary, that you
can end up costing yourself way more money into long
term future. Because baseball needs the games, they need to
be healthy, they need to be on TV. So people
(10:35):
get behind baseball, start betting on baseball, start caring about baseball.
And yeah, you may lose more money in the short
term in terms of a per game deal, but you'll
make money on the overall total number of games if
you just suck it up and get back to the art.
Not to mention what you're doing the next season in
the future, you're setting in part of bad precedent. Forget
(10:57):
about what you mean to the fans, I guess, but
the fans will either pay attention or will not pay
attention anymore. You take a season off, or you have
a suit shoop super shortened season where playoffs are covered
up by now basketball and football and college football and
apparently soccer, and you'll be amazed at how the world
(11:18):
will pass you by. Baseball has to become very They gotta.
They gotta not be Blockbuster and try and be Netflix
like people. Forget. Netflix used to be a rental service.
They used to They used to send you a DVD
(11:39):
or three DVDs in the mail. You keep them for
as long as you want, and you send them back
you pay a monthly fee. That was Netflix. They were
basically Blockbuster, but you didn't have to go to the store,
and then they decided, what are we doing here, Let's
start streaming all these same movies, and people got caught
up in the well. Know, Netflix is not gonna make
(12:01):
that much money because everybody will have somebody's code. Tell
me didn't borrow somebody's code when it first started. Now
they make their own content, make their own movies. They're
actually valued at more than Disney Disney. Now you can
sit this one out and run the risk of the
world passing you by. You can nickel and dime and
(12:22):
worried about the bottom line when the bottom line will
only shrink in years to come, or you can find
a way to just say, look, we played the delay game.
This doesn't make sense. Let's get back on the field,
start collecting checks, and become America's pastime like we were
in the past. Be sure to catch the live edition
of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three p m.
Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I
(12:45):
Heart Radio. A app I pointed this out a week
ago that the bubble city idea was a bad idea.
It would leave to teams functioning in a a subpar way,
friendships fracturing, and Oh yeah, by the way, like the
whole idea the bubble city was protecting people from the
(13:07):
rest of the world. But you're gonna end up putting
guys in a bubble when everyone else is out hanging out.
It's not like you're less safe at home or more
safe at home. You're actually less safe at home, and
you've already interacted with people. You are gone to practicacility,
(13:27):
like what are we doing here? This from ajoring war Danowski.
There were forty to fifty players in the conference calls
over the past twenty four hours discussing a number of
concerns centered on the restart in Orlando, but there have
been no formal petitioning to the NBA, p A or
any group wanting out of the two team resumption, sources said.
As players have started to come to terms with the
restricted and isolated nature of the Orlando bubble, including no
(13:49):
visitors till after the first round of the playoffs, nearly
seven weeks after the opening of mid July training camp,
there have been increased dialogue about the prudence of restarting
the season for a number of players, especi actually those
on non championship contender. Sources set I don't hate it.
I love it. I told you so. I mean, the
most predictable thing ever is Carmelo Anthony not sure if
(14:11):
he really wants to play. This was Carmelo Anthony, who
is basically begging for a job, did not was not
on a team, and Portland's gives him a chance, and
he put up numbers with Portland. But of course, as
Carmelo Anthony has been prone to do, he put up numbers,
they were not the better because of it. I mean,
(14:33):
here Carmelo Anthony is telling people he's not fully committed,
not sure if he's coming back. Why, because that's who
Carmelo is. Maybe it's that Zach Collins will be back
healthy so he wouldn't be playing major minutes. Maybe it's
that he didn't really love basketball. He just loves scoring basketballs.
That's what he's good at. And now these games matter
(14:53):
and means something. But your Carmelo Anthony, who other players? Uh?
Went to War four? Like? Look, dude, you had no
job six months ago. None. Lebron James has been one
of your closest friends, and yet in Cleveland didn't want
you when you're available in l A two times over,
(15:13):
didn't want you when you're available. He was basically free
veterans minimum. It's not a salary cap thing. And this
is why, right, nothing speaks to Karmalo Anthony not being
about winning more than your three and a half games
out of the playoffs. You'd have eight games to get closer,
and you probably have to win, you know, two consecutive
(15:34):
games against Memphis Grizzlies in order to get in. And
you're kind of concerned that the bubble and not totally in. Dude,
you're not stop of being about winning. Stop it. I mean,
this is the guy who people are like, I can't
believe he's on on a team. I can't believe he's
not on a team. I can't believe he's not a team.
(15:54):
I can because Carmelo Anthony's success has never correlated with
Team six US. He had one team that made the
playoffs once in New York. Congrats. He made one Western
Conference finals in Denver, congrats, congrats. His success has nothing
to do with winning, nor does he actually care about
(16:16):
winning basketball games. Here's your proof. You know, I don't know,
did we give you New life? Of all things? Portland's
should be the most fired up about this. Portland's was
three and a half games out. It wasn't looking good.
They weren't getting healthy, they weren't in a good place.
And now they could have new life and they The
NBA even said like, well, if you don't make the playoffs,
(16:37):
will still give you this chance. If you're within four games,
you can if you go in two in a row,
you can take the playoffs. Spot Mel was like, I
don't know, you know, and we don't get to see
our families. Dude, you get to see your families. For
the last three months, I couldn't leave, you know, when
you're supposed to be playing games and on the road
and getting ready to for a run to make the playoffs.
(16:58):
You got to be at home with your children. You
couldn't leave your house. Now you can leave your house.
You can be isolated and just focus on basketball and
try and get your team to the playoffs and give
yourself a shot. You're like, you don't know, And look,
I'm the one who's pointed out the flaws in this
agreement and the idea standing by that. But Carmelo Anthony
(17:20):
not totally sure he wants to play is the most
Carmelo Anthony the most predictable thing. Ever, be sure to
catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays
at three pm Easter noon Pacific. I love talking to
our next guest because you want to talk about passion
for sports. That he knows a ton about pool. There's
(17:40):
very few people that have the depth of knowledge combined
with passion and years of experience covering and look, he
knows all sports because he's that national radio show before,
local radio shows before. But baseball and boxing, these are
in the wheelhouse a man, Brian Kenny's kind of have
to spend some time with his um Brian. I feel
like I read this um bill shaking art a cool
from the l A Times, and in the article, it
(18:03):
talks about the three things that need to happen in
order for the previous agreement between the owners and the
players to kind of be activated, if you will, right,
And I my feeling is when I read this and
I realized that those three things, which are no restrictions
against fans attending games, no restrictions on travel throughout the
(18:23):
United States and Canada, no unreasonable health the safety risk
the players staff for fans. I feel like there's a
little bit of delay game being played by the MLB
p A because the more and more things get opened up,
maybe they think like this agreement can be triggered. Is
that why they're doing what they're doing. I think, you know,
(18:44):
just negotiation on both sides. I don't think UM. I
don't think you know, Rob Manfred or anyone in the
league office wants to just implement it. Um. I think
both sides want to eventually play UM and I I
think you can understand where both sides are coming from
that there's this is a very different season as far
(19:06):
as those who are running the business and those on
the other side in the union are saying that we
have to participate in the pain. Um, do we also
get to participate in the in the success as a partner.
So I think it all makes sense. So I think
that's like the last the last drastic measure. Is that
part of the agreement, I think, and there has been
(19:27):
pushed pull on both sides, and I think they are
at least advancing toward each other. And what you want
and what you need is a spirit of cooperation on
both sides given the circumstances. Um. Okay, So why can't
we get why is there no spirit of cooperation. I
think it's well one. Even if it weren't those two sides,
(19:48):
there'd be a natural negotiation. Where Again, as I just said, there,
it's a very different time and the revenue has stopped,
so it's a different time for ownership. At the same time,
the players can rightly claim wait a second, so when
there's a bonanza, do we get to reap that bonanza
as we also get to share this pain. So it's
a conundrum that I don't think either side saw coming.
(20:10):
Nobody saw coming that there would be a complete shutdown
due to a pandemic. And then, of course there's the
history between the two sides where it can get. You know,
obviously historically it's been contentious. Um yeah, I do feel
like so much of this is trying to win a
fight for the battle next year with the collective Barney agreement.
(20:32):
I I just see that seems I understand precedent. I
understand how important that is, especially the players that feel
like for the first time ever they lost last time around.
But there's a certain amount of goodwill with fans and
there's this shrinking window of opportunity. I get the long
term implications, but shouldn't the short term success outweigh those
(20:55):
long term ramifications. Yes, there is no question. Um, even
um everything you just said, especially now, um it's now.
I'll just give it another perspective. It's not nineteen seventy two. Uh,
you know when Marvin Miller was, you know, fighting for
pension plan and things like that, and um there there,
(21:17):
it's a union and they have to represent their own interests.
But also you should you need to look at the
landscape they do and the other side. Both sides need
to look at the landscape and say it would be
very bad for business in this climate to go away
for business reasons. As I said, it's not nineteen seventy
two where there's only limited resources or there's only limited
(21:39):
um uh, you know, entertainment options out there at a
very different time now. And you don't want people, you know,
who are clamoring for baseball and we'd love to see
major League Baseball back in the rhythm of their lives.
You certainly don't want to give people an excuse to
not have that in their lives and get used to that.
So that has to be something that I think both
sides have to feel. Yeah, yeah, I agree with the
(22:02):
best guest has this thing play out. I've this is
my guests again. I'm not in on the negotiations, Doug.
My guess is that they both realize at some point, Okay,
we've gotten past that July fourth date, which would have been, uh,
probably what everybody was shooting for. But still you want
to in the summer if things keep going good on
(22:24):
the health side. As you know, we know there's a
spike in cases in different places in the country, but
the mass depth of of you know, in the cities
in New York, New Jersey has abated for now as
things continue to improve. If they continue to improve, you
would hope in July there is Major League Baseball that
is That would be my best guest, my best hope. Yeah.
I can't believe that they're gonna miss that fourth of
(22:46):
July window. That to me just seems so foolish. And
I I look, I understand all of us, you know,
you know, I don't know your contract details, and mind
like all of us are having to swallow hard and
worry about, you know, the future and how much we're
gonna make. But May and fourth July baseball being back,
It's just it all made too much sense to me. Yeah,
(23:09):
that that should have been that was the goal and
that should have been the goal. And I was heartened
initially when they first came together on that initial agreement.
I really thought, Wow, look a spirit of cooperation. Because
I mentioned that it's been contentious between players association and
ownership through the decades. However there have been very good relations.
(23:29):
Are not a work stoppage in the last several negotiations,
So there's a history of it, but it's all a
shared bonanza at present, but that doesn't mean it has
to always continue and hopefully they recognize that brand Uh.
Brian Kenny joining us in the Doug Otlib Show here
on Fox Sports Radio. It's it's gonna be Um. I
(23:50):
want to ask you about Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua. They're
not going to fight until next summer. If if you were,
if you were in charge of all things boxing, would
that be the next big heavyweight fight? Oh? Absolutely, I
mean if I if I could run it, Um, I
would have a round robin with those three. Deontay Wilder
(24:12):
is still very much in the picture. He okay, he
lost the fight, he got knocked out, lost badly, but
he had a rematch clause. He he is certainly within
his rights. Even a fan could look at it and say,
Deontay should get a rematch. He needs to be in
this mix still. And Joshua having lost his title but
then regaining it and looking terrific, is a very viable threat.
(24:33):
And obviously Tyson Fury looked great mentally, spiritually, physically, emotionally
less time out and looks like the best heavyweight in
the world in the real heavyweight champ uh. And if again,
speaking of doing things that are good for business, if
those three fight, and there's a few of those fights
that just want hey, let's meet once, how about you?
(24:54):
You know, again, it's a round robin. Everyone keeps fighting
each other. I think it transcends the sport and gets
all those mainstream fans into boxing again. Because those three guys,
as we know, they're both very different individuals, but they're charismatic, Uh,
they're interesting, they're huge, they have different skill sets, uh,
their stars in their own right. That those three just
(25:16):
need to keep fighting. So this is very good news
that you know, Joshua was right on furies radar right
after the win over Wilder, and it wasn't like no,
that guy's a bomb. I want nothing to do with him. Like,
That's what I was waiting forwards, the same old thing.
Instead it was yeah, how about Joshua and we do it?
So this is terrific, Yeah it is. I just man,
(25:36):
I thought Wilder got so bad. I understand he's got
that one weapon, but when he met you know, when
he met a guy who can box, he just looks
so overwhelmed and and he I don't I mean, can
the guy learn enough about boxing at this point in
his life to to stand up to a guy like
(25:56):
like Joshua Tyson Fury when push comes to chef. I'm
wouldn't bet that way, but I wouldn't say it's not possible. Um,
you're right, and you you actually analyzed it correctly in
that he you know, for him to develop a big
skill set of boxing skills is very difficult at this
point in life. It doesn't mean he can't make adjustments.
And also, Doug, he just looked terrible in so many
(26:19):
ways that weekend that I'd expect him to look better
no matter what. And amoral time around, I think it
was to his advantage that he didn't climb right back
into the ring. You know, with the virus ever happened,
and they just went right to a fight in July.
I would say the odds are really against Wilder getting
everything together, learning from what he you know, what he
(26:41):
was taught in the ring by Tyson Fury, and changing things.
I think the more time he has to absorb and learn,
the more chance he has to change things. And I
don't Again, the truth is somewhere in between. He wasn't
He's not as great as he looked against Luis Ortiz
when he poll act him with one shot and he
was being lauded as the greatest n sure in history.
And he's not as bad as he was that night
(27:03):
against Fury. Right, the truth is somewhere in between. Last thing,
I feel like Connor McGregor, the reason he can't he
can't find a way to figure out to get back
in the octagon is he had to taste of that
boxing money and that boxing money is so different than
than m M A m M A money. Is that
Is that a fair way to look at it. Look,
he's a whole ball of wax, right, I mean, there's
a there's uh, there's a lot going on there. And
(27:24):
to get into his motivations, who knows Um, but he
but he should you know again he's you want to
love the guy, it's difficult, um. And he got into
you say, boxing money. He got into a different level
of boxing money he got into and look, he forced
that situation. It came out of nowhere. Boyd I believe really,
you know why it was retired, was like I'm done.
(27:45):
And then suddenly he's like, when a second, this is
big business fighting this guy who was, you know, a
good amateur and is a decent boxer, a championship level boxer,
and so he, you know, Connor McGregor created that whole
situation and made himself a ton of money, but only
a you know, Mayweather Packy Now only a few guys,
uh now the heavyweights are you'll ever approach that type
(28:07):
of money. So if that's what he's thinking, I should
be making this money. He can't make that money if
he just went to box. Now say he, oh, let
me go box Keith Thurman, You're not gonna make that
type of money. He doesn't warrant it. So I think
there's a lot of things going on with McGregor. He's
retired before he'll come back again. Last thing, Mike Tyson
is not really making a comeback, is he. No? No,
(28:27):
And I look, look, I trained with Mike back in
the day. I loved seeing him, you know, hit the
bag again and and hit the myths and look terrific,
and he's in shape and he looks great. Um. But no,
he had a long slide by the time he got
to that last fight, which I was at, you know,
a long slide to where he just he was not motivated.
(28:48):
And I think it's in a lot of ways, is
both overrated and underrated. People who say, well, flash the
penny intimidated people. No, no, no, he had a three
year rain. He's the youngest heavyweight champion ever. He was
totally dominant, and he it was tremendous, such a great
run that it's still fixed in our minds. It was
so fantastic to watch the devastation that he wrought in
(29:09):
our imagination as the heavyweight champion of the world, that
we want to see it again. But he's fifty three, Doug.
Look at fifty three, we can stay in shape, but
you're not going to go to the highest level and
knock out you know, these two seventy pound heavyweights. Now,
awesome stuff. B k look forward to seeing you at
some point in person. The meantime I can listen to
talk about baseball and sweet science at nauseum. Thanks so
(29:32):
much for spending some time with us. Thank you, Pleasure,
pleasures all mine. That's Brian Kenny joining us um here
on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. Of course,
he joined us on Discover Card Guest hotline. Fox Sports
Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot
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(29:55):
s R to listen live. Let's catch up with the
defense coordinator for Arizona eight. He also, by the ways,
long time UH defense coordinat in the NAH football like
Baltimore Ravens had great success. Then he was the head
coach Cincinnati Bengals. Now, as as I mentioned at Arizona stage,
Marvin Lewis, he joined us in the Doug Gotlip Show
on Fox Sports Radio. Coach, how are you, I'm good,
(30:16):
good afternoon. How you guys doing. I'm doing really really well.
What has quarantine been like for you to to try
and coach and and get kids all kind of lined
up and ready for the fall, but there was no
spring and as of right now, UM, you know there
there are are no in person workouts with coaches. Right. Well,
(30:39):
we we were able to get about a half our
time uh in the Arizona State this spring, so for
that point it was great. We were able to install
the defense. We also have a new offensive coordinator and
Zach Hill who was able to install the offense, so
he feel blessed for that. And then uh, then the
pandemic hit. So we've learned how to coach virtually, um,
(31:01):
and uh we will begin again. Our players are we
have a grouping of players that are able to come
back to campus on Monday and begin to working with
the strength and conditioning coaches because that's the biggest focus
right now is these guys have been basically away from
football since the second week of March and the ability
(31:23):
to get these guys back into a football condition and
so forth. So it's up to how the doctors and
everybody has put together the regiment that we need in
order to get back to playing football at some point. Um.
Obviously you know like this this is an interesting job
for it you were you were with Arizona State last year.
(31:43):
Now you take over as their defensive coordinator. How how
different is the level from what you're used to having
spent so much time in the nash Football League. Well,
it's really it's exciting. I tell people all the time,
I don't care whether you're coaching eight year olds eighteen
year old year olds. It's coaching and it's fun and
UH and that's the part I'm excited about. Uh. We're
(32:06):
blessed here at a issue to have some very very
good players. Some guys are gonna have a chance to
go extend uh their football playing long after a issue.
So we're blessed for that. And with Kurch Harms put together,
UH is really outstanding. It's a great atmosphere, very very positive.
It's all about the players all the time. And he's
(32:29):
really taught these guys how to be young men and
grow as men to be and as they go forward
in their collegiate careers and then hopefully they're after uh
that he's really helping them with that. Marvin lewis our
guest on the Doug Otlip Show on Fox Sports Radio.
How did you get it? Because you took internships? Read
(32:49):
where you took internships in order to get into the NFL.
After spending some time coaching in college. Y'all moderate at
Idaho State and at Pittsburgh. How did you originally get
in in the early nineties, Well, you're you're right, as
I was very fortunate to be one of Coach Walsh's
when he started the minority Fellowship program to be one
of his first selectees, and I got an opportunity to
(33:11):
go with the forty Niners and spent three weeks in
training camp with him. Ironically that summer, and I already
spent two weeks in Ottawa, Canada as a guest coach
in Canada, So I had a lot of training camp
that year. And uh, but that's what you do. You learn,
how to learn from other people and so forth, and
I had an opportunity to do that. And from that
point on, Coach walsh Is coaches that he had their
(33:34):
Railroad searm Lewis, Denny Green, Mike Holmgren, Fred Unoff and
those guys were catalysts George Seafort in my career from
that point on to help me in many many ways.
And then later down the road, I spent time with
Marty Schottenheimer's staff, with the chiefs that Tony Dungee was
(33:55):
part of Bill Kauer et cetera. Bruce Are and and
and so these guys have been people that have been
really influential to me for a long long time. Um,
why why do you think? I mean, obviously the numbers
are so downs, only four African American head coaches. You
were in Cincinnati for a long time. You guys went
to the playoffs five straight years? And what what people forget?
(34:17):
And t J. Hushman's outa who's one of your biggest fans,
of course played for He's like, man, you you don't
understand the culture change when Marvin Lewis got there. Why
why do you believe it's so hard it's been so
difficult for more African American coaches to get that opportunity. Well,
we have to continue to, uh really give opportunity for
(34:37):
young African American coaches, young minority coaches at every level.
We have to encourage them to take the time, uh
to to uh learn and grow from that point on.
And and that's what I was able to do. But
you also somewhat luck of the drawer, and I thought
it was my uh, my uh experience and my responsibility
(35:03):
to help grow young coaches all the time, and I
think that's important and we've got to have more of that,
more than mentoring, more providing more opportunity to grow young
coaches from the ground up and give them an opportunity
and be able to to show that they have great expertise.
To so many times the African American coaches, he gets
(35:26):
kudos for handling his group, but what people have to know,
he can also get kudos for handling the entire room,
the entire side of the football. You know, one of
the things that I think separates you and herm. Obviously
you guys have both been head coach in the NFL,
but you guys both really really value education, right like
when you're at the state, you've got your master's degree
and and um, you know that there's this you're now
(35:49):
mentoring young men and they're coming in and we have
these protests and and a need for a need for
everyone to be heard, not just for justice and terms
of the police, but just how people are viewed in society.
How is that How do you relay that message to
young men who are going through something you went through
(36:10):
so long ago. We are we're trying to on a
daily basis mentor our guys. Uh. Coach Staff came out
with a text today literally just half an hour hour ago,
and and and that's what we are his responsibility. That's
why I'm here with him. You know, this is a
guy who's been a friend of mine for a long
long time. We obviously live here. I just spent three
(36:33):
hours in the pool with my two grandsons. I'm blessed
to be here with him and with Bray Anderson. But
but also they help further what they're all about, and
they help our players really read the ability to grow
as men, the black men to be become fathers and
and everything in their way that they have every opportunity
(36:54):
open every door we can open for them. Uh, that's
our responsibility. And that's what it's about every day here
at a su It's so funny. We were talking to
the Antonio Peers and I about something where someone said, well,
they don't do this. You know, we do this every day.
That's what we do. That's what coach terms all about.
Every single days helped mentoring you and bringing all of you,
(37:16):
I don't care what color you are, bringing you forward
as a man. And and obviously you've done that for
so many for so long, Um, what about getting back
to the NFL. You're only sixty one. You know, you
got twenty years of coaching left in you. If you if, if,
if you want, how much does that burn within you
to get back to that level? Well, what what burns
(37:38):
in me is is last year, as you said, I
was with her at issue is my title is special advisor.
So my job was to help mentor the coaches and
the players and help and ways off the field. And
uh what I figured out during that time, and I
was so blessed that they gave me the opportunity to
do that that I missed coaching, you know, I literally coaching,
(38:01):
and so uh as we moved forward, I don't know
what's in the cards. I do know that if the
people people that I feel good about, because that's where
I am right now in my life. I got it
feel good about those people. And I was black to
work with the Brown family for the years that I did,
and I know each and every day we may not
have always came in and a Greek when we left
(38:22):
the room, we all agreed and we're on the same page.
And that was very important to me. And I think
where you become a head coach. That's so so important
and uh, and that's what looking forward to. If something
is there in the future, we'll see what happens. You know.
It's it's really amazing, right and that that's that's you know,
you're you're a lot of disagree behind closed doors and
walk out here. We're all on the same page. And
that's that's how we have to represent ourselves. It's it's interesting. Um,
(38:46):
you know, look, when you took over, they were the
Bungles and then you guys. Uh, then you guys, for
the most part, we're a winning franchise. Obviously, since you've left,
they've fallen on some really really hard times. They were
there having people that said, hey, Joe Brow, you should
you shouldn't go there, you should refuse to go there.
Pull an Eli Manning if you will. Um, how hard
is how hard was it from your perspective to turn
(39:08):
around that culture from the losing culture to the winning
culture you were able to install. You know, it's funny
you said, because I was blessed to be you know,
within my time in the NFL with guys who were
first time head coaches and let's just say Paul Hackett
University of Pittsburgh, Bill Kower with the Steelers, Brian Billick
(39:30):
with the Ravens, and then later on UH coach Spurry
her and there in Washington. So I was able to
watch and learn from these coaches and how they did things.
And one of the things that Brian Billy said that
I'll never forget, you know, and I and I you know,
we we all are copiers and coaching. Ryan said to
(39:50):
the players, you know what, there were good coaches here
before you, before I came in this building, and you
guys got them fired. You're not gonna give me fired.
And and to me that resonates so much with what
this all about that you know what it soon you
know there are good coaches all over the place and
(40:11):
UH and and we really UH the staff that was
able to put together and Mike having to convince Mike
this is the way I would like to do it,
and I learned that's what it is. And he's truly Uh.
It was like a father to me in many many ways.
We we talked every single day. And I owe Tom Donohoe,
(40:33):
who I worked with with the Steelers and people like
that who are in my background to have that kind
of relationship with the owner. That's very, very important. A
lot of coaches don't have that. And when the owner
is on site like I had, and always involved in everything,
it was really important that he and I and then
the rest of the group that made decisions were always
on the same page. And that's what I learned. If
(40:55):
I were to give you a pen and a piece
of paper and say, you've lived it, you know you
You've worked your way as a college player, as a
college assistant, as an intern, you went to Canada for
some stuff, and then work your way up, became a
defense coordinator, won a Super Bowl with one of the
most dominant defenses we've ever seen, and then of course
had to you know, turned around the Bengals. Um if
(41:15):
I would say, hey, Marvin Lewis, coach Lewis, write the
Rooney Rule, how would it read? Well? I think we've
made some some big strides. I think the ability to
provide opportunity for coaches to move uh from position coaches
to coordinators is a huge I know why it was
taken away because people were abusing it, but I do
(41:38):
think that provides more opportunity for coaches to make decisions
based on what's important to them. If it's important for
me to go to from teammate to team B because
now I can be the offensive coordinator. I think it's
very important to give them that opportunity, and maybe they
don't take that opportunity, maybe where they are to stay
uh constant in the position oats and whatever the the
(42:02):
the organization wants to do everything they can to keep
them and and they have a succession plan which we
had in Cincinnati many times to say, looks, don't take
that job when so and so leaves here, You're going
to be the next coordinator here. And I think that
resonates with coaches then they feel good about that. And
(42:22):
I think, but that's off to each coach individually to
make that kind of decision for his family. And I
think that with the expansion of that is really really
important with the Rooney Rule and also to provide ask
for more opportunities to take a deeper dive into the
Canadate pool. We also have to continue to develop young
(42:44):
people into the pool, whether they be the assistance, quality control,
the things that we need to have so that we
can continue to provide opportunity for them to feel good
about working their way up into the pool. Uh, you
know all the time people said you had to be
a coordinator, then you had to be a play caller. Well,
(43:06):
sometimes the rules change, so let's just understand what it
is and let's just provide an opportunity across the board,
regardless of race, of what the opportunities are. Marva, great stuff. Man.
Glad you got a chance to spend time with the
grandkids today. Now get back to work and get that
defense up in Humming because the kids are showing up
on Monday. Appreciate you spending some time with this. Thanks
(43:28):
very much. Pleasure is all mine.
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for The Doug Gottlip Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug Gotli Show on Fox Sports Radio. I'm
looking at this baseball thing and I'm trying to figure
out why there isn't a greater push by the players
to get back and play. And I've figured it out.
(00:43):
They are running the old lay game in baseball terms.
It's like they're facing off with Pedro Martinez and trying
to foul off as many balls as possible. Do you
guys remember Pedro Martinez. Pedro Martinez is arguably the greatest
picture of the modern generation of baseball. One more time,
(01:08):
Pedro Martinez is arguably the greatest picture in the modern
history of baseball. What was his achilles heel when he
got past a hundred pitches? When he got past a
hundred pitches, suddenly the location is just a little bit
off the nasty. Breaking ball is breaks just a little
(01:33):
bit less. The fastball loses a mile or two per hour.
But more than anything, it's the location, and you leave
things up and people put things out. So the way
in which Pedro Martinez became fallible at times in postseason
play was, Hey, let's work to count foul pitch us off.
Take some balls, even if we don't score any runs.
(01:55):
Let's just play the delay game, because once you get
to middle relief, there is no chance that the midderal
lever is going to be as good as Pedro Martinez.
And Pedro Martinez isn't as good as Pedro Martinez once
he gets past the hunter pitch hunter pitch mark. That's
(02:16):
what the MLB p A is doing. How do I know?
I read this from Bill Shakin, who covers Major League
Baseball for the l A Times. The March Agreement, struck
two weeks after the coronavirus outbreak shut down spring training,
specified how much players would be paid if the season
were canceled in the case of games being played this season.
The section of the agreement entitled Player Compensation and Benefits
(02:39):
has this language, if and when the conditions exist for
the commencement of the two thousand twenty championship season. All
players signed to a major league contract shall be paid
a daily salary rate specified as pro rated salary. The
resumption of play section of the agreement has three criteria.
(03:00):
Are you no restrictions against fans attending games, no restrictions
on travel throughout the United States and Canada, and no
unreasonable health or safety risk to players, staff or fans.
Randy Levine, who of course is the president of the
New York Yankees, said, since three of these all three
conditions have not been met, the agreement says that based
upon that those facts and economic feasibility of the moment,
(03:21):
there has to be a renegotiation on salaries. That is
not my opinion, that is the text of the agreement.
In other words, Baseball the agreement that they set it
was just three criteria. Okay, no restrictions, fans could be
there and open travel now fans can't totally be there
(03:42):
yet and um um. But there are no unreasonable health
and safety risk to players, staff or fans that we
know of as of yet. There aren't restrictions that I'm
aware of on travel within the United States. Canada a
different story, but with every passing day, more and more
(04:03):
things open up, and I would have to think that
the MLB p A is simply playing the delay game.
That's why we went from getting really close in negotiations
to don't talk about the agreement, don't sign the agreement,
don't do anything with agreement. Okay, let's propose fourteen games,
MLB goes down to fifty, then they come up. They're
(04:27):
at sixty. Now they're now they're at seventy six. They're
getting closer and closer. But the big thing is that
the MLB p A does not want to change the
pro rated salary. Well, you have to ask yourself, Okay,
what sort of leverage do they have the leverages once
(04:51):
the country opens up, if it opens up where you
can have fans at sporting events, which has already happened
at least on a small percentage small scale in the
state of Texas, well, then what then the agreement that
they previously reached two weeks after coronavirus shut everything down, Well,
that becomes valid again. But I think the part that
(05:17):
the players are miscalculating is something that happens in my business.
A great deal. People get really, really really worried about
the exact amount of money that they're gonna make. In
my business, we have agents. Not everybody has an agent.
Not everybody necessarily needs an agent. Okay, And in their
(05:40):
own mind, a lot of guys that make a lot
of money think what am I giving away ten percent
of my money? For a lot of guys at the
low end of things think why am I giving away
ten percent of my money? Well, there's a lot of
different reasons you do. So. The first part is their
conversations about you from your boss that need to be
(06:00):
softened and need to be relayed through the ear of
an agent. Additionally, an agent can legally talk about you
to a different company without any sort of tampering or
any sort of illegal activities. They can negotiate in your
uh you know, um uh. They can negotiate for you,
(06:23):
negotiate for you, and when they negotiate for you, it
doesn't conflict with your current agreement, with your current contract.
But the big thing is right, an agent protects you
not to get you next job, but if you get
fired from your current job. Now, I know an agent
(06:48):
who's a really good one who his client got a
d u I And this was brilliant agenty client got
a d u I and the cup, and he want
worked for, wanted to fire him, want to fire his
client because not just that he got the d u I,
but he didn't tell his employer and it reached the
(07:11):
blogg isphere. So the agent picked up the phone and
called the bosses and says, hey, I just want to
let you know. This is my bad. This is on
me because my client called me and told me about
the d u I and asked me to tell you,
and I failed to relay the message. That's on me.
He took the proverbial bullet for his client. That's worth
(07:36):
more than ten. We get so caught up in figures
and how much we're making when the truth is the
it's a lot like being one of these running backs
Frank Gore's of the world. Just keep staying in the
league and earning yards and collecting paychecks. The more years
of service that you play, the longer and better your
(07:57):
pension will be, the more money that you will earn.
This was MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred on ESPN making it
very clear we will have a baseball season. We're gonna
play baseball if it has to be under the March agreement.
If we get to that point in the calendar, so
be it. But one way or the other, we're playing
Major League Baseball now. One way though, this is getting done,
(08:19):
and so playing the delay game in order to earn
a percentage more than you're set to earn. That's sitting
here saying, you know, I can go I could have
an agent and maybe he can get me a better deal,
but I gotta pay him ten percent and ten percent
off the top doesn't make forget that, dude. Sometimes you
(08:40):
just take the deal even though you know there's still
some money out there. There's still some money out there.
You leave a little bit of money on the table
because you sit there and go, hey, next negotiation. We
could say we left a little bit of money out there,
and Major League Baseball's Players Association wants to leave no
dollar on any table. They believe it is their rightful earnings.
(09:07):
And they may be right, but you run the risk
of bad will. You run the risk of a a
a much shorter season, and in the end you're gonna
make less money to begin with. Right. What what happens
with these guys that work for a company that don't
have an agent usually is a boss bulls moment says
(09:30):
you don't need an agent, let's just do this deal,
and it gets done really quickly, and then you start
to realize that it's well below market value, and does
it Does it mean you won't make You know, you
won't still earn the same amount because you took off
the ten percent. Sure, but generally, generally, every contract in
(09:50):
my workplace same as your workplace. It's going to be
your You start with negotiations based upon your current salary
plus some sort of increase. So whether you have an
agent or don't have an agent, if you take less
and you think you're earning more because you don't have
an agent, you're still starting at a lower point for
your next negotiation. Everyone thinks you can save a little
(10:13):
bit of money and go on the cheap, but you
get what you pay for. And that's the same thing
with Major League Baseball's players. You're so concerned about giving
back a percentage more of the money because you already
gave back whatever on this pro rated salary, that you
can end up costing yourself way more money into long
term future. Because baseball needs the games, they need to
be healthy, they need to be on TV. So people
(10:35):
get behind baseball, start betting on baseball, start caring about baseball.
And yeah, you may lose more money in the short
term in terms of a per game deal, but you'll
make money on the overall total number of games if
you just suck it up and get back to the art.
Not to mention what you're doing the next season in
the future, you're setting in part of bad precedent. Forget
(10:57):
about what you mean to the fans, I guess, but
the fans will either pay attention or will not pay
attention anymore. You take a season off, or you have
a suit shoop super shortened season where playoffs are covered
up by now basketball and football and college football and
apparently soccer, and you'll be amazed at how the world
(11:18):
will pass you by. Baseball has to become very They gotta.
They gotta not be Blockbuster and try and be Netflix
like people. Forget. Netflix used to be a rental service.
They used to They used to send you a DVD
(11:39):
or three DVDs in the mail. You keep them for
as long as you want, and you send them back
you pay a monthly fee. That was Netflix. They were
basically Blockbuster, but you didn't have to go to the store,
and then they decided, what are we doing here, Let's
start streaming all these same movies, and people got caught
up in the well. Know, Netflix is not gonna make
(12:01):
that much money because everybody will have somebody's code. Tell
me didn't borrow somebody's code when it first started. Now
they make their own content, make their own movies. They're
actually valued at more than Disney Disney. Now you can
sit this one out and run the risk of the
world passing you by. You can nickel and dime and
(12:22):
worried about the bottom line when the bottom line will
only shrink in years to come, or you can find
a way to just say, look, we played the delay game.
This doesn't make sense. Let's get back on the field,
start collecting checks, and become America's pastime like we were
in the past. Be sure to catch the live edition
of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three p m.
Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I
(12:45):
Heart Radio. A app I pointed this out a week
ago that the bubble city idea was a bad idea.
It would leave to teams functioning in a a subpar way,
friendships fracturing, and Oh yeah, by the way, like the
whole idea the bubble city was protecting people from the
(13:07):
rest of the world. But you're gonna end up putting
guys in a bubble when everyone else is out hanging out.
It's not like you're less safe at home or more
safe at home. You're actually less safe at home, and
you've already interacted with people. You are gone to practicacility,
(13:27):
like what are we doing here? This from ajoring war Danowski.
There were forty to fifty players in the conference calls
over the past twenty four hours discussing a number of
concerns centered on the restart in Orlando, but there have
been no formal petitioning to the NBA, p A or
any group wanting out of the two team resumption, sources said.
As players have started to come to terms with the
restricted and isolated nature of the Orlando bubble, including no
(13:49):
visitors till after the first round of the playoffs, nearly
seven weeks after the opening of mid July training camp,
there have been increased dialogue about the prudence of restarting
the season for a number of players, especi actually those
on non championship contender. Sources set I don't hate it.
I love it. I told you so. I mean, the
most predictable thing ever is Carmelo Anthony not sure if
(14:11):
he really wants to play. This was Carmelo Anthony, who
is basically begging for a job, did not was not
on a team, and Portland's gives him a chance, and
he put up numbers with Portland. But of course, as
Carmelo Anthony has been prone to do, he put up numbers,
they were not the better because of it. I mean,
(14:33):
here Carmelo Anthony is telling people he's not fully committed,
not sure if he's coming back. Why, because that's who
Carmelo is. Maybe it's that Zach Collins will be back
healthy so he wouldn't be playing major minutes. Maybe it's
that he didn't really love basketball. He just loves scoring basketballs.
That's what he's good at. And now these games matter
(14:53):
and means something. But your Carmelo Anthony, who other players? Uh?
Went to War four? Like? Look, dude, you had no
job six months ago. None. Lebron James has been one
of your closest friends, and yet in Cleveland didn't want
you when you're available in l A two times over,
(15:13):
didn't want you when you're available. He was basically free
veterans minimum. It's not a salary cap thing. And this
is why, right, nothing speaks to Karmalo Anthony not being
about winning more than your three and a half games
out of the playoffs. You'd have eight games to get closer,
and you probably have to win, you know, two consecutive
(15:34):
games against Memphis Grizzlies in order to get in. And
you're kind of concerned that the bubble and not totally in. Dude,
you're not stop of being about winning. Stop it. I mean,
this is the guy who people are like, I can't
believe he's on on a team. I can't believe he's
not on a team. I can't believe he's not a team.
(15:54):
I can because Carmelo Anthony's success has never correlated with
Team six US. He had one team that made the
playoffs once in New York. Congrats. He made one Western
Conference finals in Denver, congrats, congrats. His success has nothing
to do with winning, nor does he actually care about
(16:16):
winning basketball games. Here's your proof. You know, I don't know,
did we give you New life? Of all things? Portland's
should be the most fired up about this. Portland's was
three and a half games out. It wasn't looking good.
They weren't getting healthy, they weren't in a good place.
And now they could have new life and they The
NBA even said like, well, if you don't make the playoffs,
(16:37):
will still give you this chance. If you're within four games,
you can if you go in two in a row,
you can take the playoffs. Spot Mel was like, I
don't know, you know, and we don't get to see
our families. Dude, you get to see your families. For
the last three months, I couldn't leave, you know, when
you're supposed to be playing games and on the road
and getting ready to for a run to make the playoffs.
(16:58):
You got to be at home with your children. You
couldn't leave your house. Now you can leave your house.
You can be isolated and just focus on basketball and
try and get your team to the playoffs and give
yourself a shot. You're like, you don't know, And look,
I'm the one who's pointed out the flaws in this
agreement and the idea standing by that. But Carmelo Anthony
(17:20):
not totally sure he wants to play is the most
Carmelo Anthony the most predictable thing. Ever, be sure to
catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays
at three pm Easter noon Pacific. I love talking to
our next guest because you want to talk about passion
for sports. That he knows a ton about pool. There's
(17:40):
very few people that have the depth of knowledge combined
with passion and years of experience covering and look, he
knows all sports because he's that national radio show before,
local radio shows before. But baseball and boxing, these are
in the wheelhouse a man, Brian Kenny's kind of have
to spend some time with his um Brian. I feel
like I read this um bill shaking art a cool
from the l A Times, and in the article, it
(18:03):
talks about the three things that need to happen in
order for the previous agreement between the owners and the
players to kind of be activated, if you will, right,
And I my feeling is when I read this and
I realized that those three things, which are no restrictions
against fans attending games, no restrictions on travel throughout the
(18:23):
United States and Canada, no unreasonable health the safety risk
the players staff for fans. I feel like there's a
little bit of delay game being played by the MLB
p A because the more and more things get opened up,
maybe they think like this agreement can be triggered. Is
that why they're doing what they're doing. I think, you know,
(18:44):
just negotiation on both sides. I don't think UM. I
don't think you know, Rob Manfred or anyone in the
league office wants to just implement it. Um. I think
both sides want to eventually play UM and I I
think you can understand where both sides are coming from
that there's this is a very different season as far
(19:06):
as those who are running the business and those on
the other side in the union are saying that we
have to participate in the pain. Um, do we also
get to participate in the in the success as a partner.
So I think it all makes sense. So I think
that's like the last the last drastic measure. Is that
part of the agreement, I think, and there has been
(19:27):
pushed pull on both sides, and I think they are
at least advancing toward each other. And what you want
and what you need is a spirit of cooperation on
both sides given the circumstances. Um. Okay, So why can't
we get why is there no spirit of cooperation. I
think it's well one. Even if it weren't those two sides,
(19:48):
there'd be a natural negotiation. Where Again, as I just said, there,
it's a very different time and the revenue has stopped,
so it's a different time for ownership. At the same time,
the players can rightly claim wait a second, so when
there's a bonanza, do we get to reap that bonanza
as we also get to share this pain. So it's
a conundrum that I don't think either side saw coming.
(20:10):
Nobody saw coming that there would be a complete shutdown
due to a pandemic. And then, of course there's the
history between the two sides where it can get. You know,
obviously historically it's been contentious. Um yeah, I do feel
like so much of this is trying to win a
fight for the battle next year with the collective Barney agreement.
(20:32):
I I just see that seems I understand precedent. I
understand how important that is, especially the players that feel
like for the first time ever they lost last time around.
But there's a certain amount of goodwill with fans and
there's this shrinking window of opportunity. I get the long
term implications, but shouldn't the short term success outweigh those
(20:55):
long term ramifications. Yes, there is no question. Um, even
um everything you just said, especially now, um it's now.
I'll just give it another perspective. It's not nineteen seventy two. Uh,
you know when Marvin Miller was, you know, fighting for
pension plan and things like that, and um there there,
(21:17):
it's a union and they have to represent their own interests.
But also you should you need to look at the
landscape they do and the other side. Both sides need
to look at the landscape and say it would be
very bad for business in this climate to go away
for business reasons. As I said, it's not nineteen seventy
two where there's only limited resources or there's only limited
(21:39):
um uh, you know, entertainment options out there at a
very different time now. And you don't want people, you know,
who are clamoring for baseball and we'd love to see
major League Baseball back in the rhythm of their lives.
You certainly don't want to give people an excuse to
not have that in their lives and get used to that.
So that has to be something that I think both
sides have to feel. Yeah, yeah, I agree with the
(22:02):
best guest has this thing play out. I've this is
my guests again. I'm not in on the negotiations, Doug.
My guess is that they both realize at some point, Okay,
we've gotten past that July fourth date, which would have been, uh,
probably what everybody was shooting for. But still you want
to in the summer if things keep going good on
(22:24):
the health side. As you know, we know there's a
spike in cases in different places in the country, but
the mass depth of of you know, in the cities
in New York, New Jersey has abated for now as
things continue to improve. If they continue to improve, you
would hope in July there is Major League Baseball that
is That would be my best guest, my best hope. Yeah.
I can't believe that they're gonna miss that fourth of
(22:46):
July window. That to me just seems so foolish. And
I I look, I understand all of us, you know,
you know, I don't know your contract details, and mind
like all of us are having to swallow hard and
worry about, you know, the future and how much we're
gonna make. But May and fourth July baseball being back,
It's just it all made too much sense to me. Yeah,
(23:09):
that that should have been that was the goal and
that should have been the goal. And I was heartened
initially when they first came together on that initial agreement.
I really thought, Wow, look a spirit of cooperation. Because
I mentioned that it's been contentious between players association and
ownership through the decades. However there have been very good relations.
(23:29):
Are not a work stoppage in the last several negotiations,
So there's a history of it, but it's all a
shared bonanza at present, but that doesn't mean it has
to always continue and hopefully they recognize that brand Uh.
Brian Kenny joining us in the Doug Otlib Show here
on Fox Sports Radio. It's it's gonna be Um. I
(23:50):
want to ask you about Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua. They're
not going to fight until next summer. If if you were,
if you were in charge of all things boxing, would
that be the next big heavyweight fight? Oh? Absolutely, I
mean if I if I could run it, Um, I
would have a round robin with those three. Deontay Wilder
(24:12):
is still very much in the picture. He okay, he
lost the fight, he got knocked out, lost badly, but
he had a rematch clause. He he is certainly within
his rights. Even a fan could look at it and say,
Deontay should get a rematch. He needs to be in
this mix still. And Joshua having lost his title but
then regaining it and looking terrific, is a very viable threat.
(24:33):
And obviously Tyson Fury looked great mentally, spiritually, physically, emotionally
less time out and looks like the best heavyweight in
the world in the real heavyweight champ uh. And if again,
speaking of doing things that are good for business, if
those three fight, and there's a few of those fights
that just want hey, let's meet once, how about you?
(24:54):
You know, again, it's a round robin. Everyone keeps fighting
each other. I think it transcends the sport and gets
all those mainstream fans into boxing again. Because those three guys,
as we know, they're both very different individuals, but they're charismatic, Uh,
they're interesting, they're huge, they have different skill sets, uh,
their stars in their own right. That those three just
(25:16):
need to keep fighting. So this is very good news
that you know, Joshua was right on furies radar right
after the win over Wilder, and it wasn't like no,
that guy's a bomb. I want nothing to do with him. Like,
That's what I was waiting forwards, the same old thing.
Instead it was yeah, how about Joshua and we do it?
So this is terrific, Yeah it is. I just man,
(25:36):
I thought Wilder got so bad. I understand he's got
that one weapon, but when he met you know, when
he met a guy who can box, he just looks
so overwhelmed and and he I don't I mean, can
the guy learn enough about boxing at this point in
his life to to stand up to a guy like
(25:56):
like Joshua Tyson Fury when push comes to chef. I'm
wouldn't bet that way, but I wouldn't say it's not possible. Um,
you're right, and you you actually analyzed it correctly in
that he you know, for him to develop a big
skill set of boxing skills is very difficult at this
point in life. It doesn't mean he can't make adjustments.
And also, Doug, he just looked terrible in so many
(26:19):
ways that weekend that I'd expect him to look better
no matter what. And amoral time around, I think it
was to his advantage that he didn't climb right back
into the ring. You know, with the virus ever happened,
and they just went right to a fight in July.
I would say the odds are really against Wilder getting
everything together, learning from what he you know, what he
(26:41):
was taught in the ring by Tyson Fury, and changing things.
I think the more time he has to absorb and learn,
the more chance he has to change things. And I
don't Again, the truth is somewhere in between. He wasn't
He's not as great as he looked against Luis Ortiz
when he poll act him with one shot and he
was being lauded as the greatest n sure in history.
And he's not as bad as he was that night
(27:03):
against Fury. Right, the truth is somewhere in between. Last thing,
I feel like Connor McGregor, the reason he can't he
can't find a way to figure out to get back
in the octagon is he had to taste of that
boxing money and that boxing money is so different than
than m M A m M A money. Is that
Is that a fair way to look at it. Look,
he's a whole ball of wax, right, I mean, there's
a there's uh, there's a lot going on there. And
(27:24):
to get into his motivations, who knows Um, but he
but he should you know again he's you want to
love the guy, it's difficult, um. And he got into
you say, boxing money. He got into a different level
of boxing money he got into and look, he forced
that situation. It came out of nowhere. Boyd I believe really,
you know why it was retired, was like I'm done.
(27:45):
And then suddenly he's like, when a second, this is
big business fighting this guy who was, you know, a
good amateur and is a decent boxer, a championship level boxer,
and so he, you know, Connor McGregor created that whole
situation and made himself a ton of money, but only
a you know, Mayweather Packy Now only a few guys,
uh now the heavyweights are you'll ever approach that type
(28:07):
of money. So if that's what he's thinking, I should
be making this money. He can't make that money if
he just went to box. Now say he, oh, let
me go box Keith Thurman, You're not gonna make that
type of money. He doesn't warrant it. So I think
there's a lot of things going on with McGregor. He's
retired before he'll come back again. Last thing, Mike Tyson
is not really making a comeback, is he. No? No,
(28:27):
And I look, look, I trained with Mike back in
the day. I loved seeing him, you know, hit the
bag again and and hit the myths and look terrific,
and he's in shape and he looks great. Um. But no,
he had a long slide by the time he got
to that last fight, which I was at, you know,
a long slide to where he just he was not motivated.
(28:48):
And I think it's in a lot of ways, is
both overrated and underrated. People who say, well, flash the
penny intimidated people. No, no, no, he had a three
year rain. He's the youngest heavyweight champion ever. He was
totally dominant, and he it was tremendous, such a great
run that it's still fixed in our minds. It was
so fantastic to watch the devastation that he wrought in
(29:09):
our imagination as the heavyweight champion of the world, that
we want to see it again. But he's fifty three, Doug.
Look at fifty three, we can stay in shape, but
you're not going to go to the highest level and
knock out you know, these two seventy pound heavyweights. Now,
awesome stuff. B k look forward to seeing you at
some point in person. The meantime I can listen to
talk about baseball and sweet science at nauseum. Thanks so
(29:32):
much for spending some time with us. Thank you, Pleasure,
pleasures all mine. That's Brian Kenny joining us um here
on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. Of course,
he joined us on Discover Card Guest hotline. Fox Sports
Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot
com and within the I Heart Radio app search f
(29:55):
s R to listen live. Let's catch up with the
defense coordinator for Arizona eight. He also, by the ways,
long time UH defense coordinat in the NAH football like
Baltimore Ravens had great success. Then he was the head
coach Cincinnati Bengals. Now, as as I mentioned at Arizona stage,
Marvin Lewis, he joined us in the Doug Gotlip Show
on Fox Sports Radio. Coach, how are you, I'm good,
(30:16):
good afternoon. How you guys doing. I'm doing really really well.
What has quarantine been like for you to to try
and coach and and get kids all kind of lined
up and ready for the fall, but there was no
spring and as of right now, UM, you know there
there are are no in person workouts with coaches. Right. Well,
(30:39):
we we were able to get about a half our
time uh in the Arizona State this spring, so for
that point it was great. We were able to install
the defense. We also have a new offensive coordinator and
Zach Hill who was able to install the offense, so
he feel blessed for that. And then uh, then the
pandemic hit. So we've learned how to coach virtually, um,
(31:01):
and uh we will begin again. Our players are we
have a grouping of players that are able to come
back to campus on Monday and begin to working with
the strength and conditioning coaches because that's the biggest focus
right now is these guys have been basically away from
football since the second week of March and the ability
(31:23):
to get these guys back into a football condition and
so forth. So it's up to how the doctors and
everybody has put together the regiment that we need in
order to get back to playing football at some point. Um.
Obviously you know like this this is an interesting job
for it you were you were with Arizona State last year.
(31:43):
Now you take over as their defensive coordinator. How how
different is the level from what you're used to having
spent so much time in the nash Football League. Well,
it's really it's exciting. I tell people all the time,
I don't care whether you're coaching eight year olds eighteen
year old year olds. It's coaching and it's fun and
UH and that's the part I'm excited about. Uh. We're
(32:06):
blessed here at a issue to have some very very
good players. Some guys are gonna have a chance to
go extend uh their football playing long after a issue.
So we're blessed for that. And with Kurch Harms put together,
UH is really outstanding. It's a great atmosphere, very very positive.
It's all about the players all the time. And he's
(32:29):
really taught these guys how to be young men and
grow as men to be and as they go forward
in their collegiate careers and then hopefully they're after uh
that he's really helping them with that. Marvin lewis our
guest on the Doug Otlip Show on Fox Sports Radio.
How did you get it? Because you took internships? Read
(32:49):
where you took internships in order to get into the NFL.
After spending some time coaching in college. Y'all moderate at
Idaho State and at Pittsburgh. How did you originally get
in in the early nineties, Well, you're you're right, as
I was very fortunate to be one of Coach Walsh's
when he started the minority Fellowship program to be one
of his first selectees, and I got an opportunity to
(33:11):
go with the forty Niners and spent three weeks in
training camp with him. Ironically that summer, and I already
spent two weeks in Ottawa, Canada as a guest coach
in Canada, So I had a lot of training camp
that year. And uh, but that's what you do. You learn,
how to learn from other people and so forth, and
I had an opportunity to do that. And from that
point on, Coach walsh Is coaches that he had their
(33:34):
Railroad searm Lewis, Denny Green, Mike Holmgren, Fred Unoff and
those guys were catalysts George Seafort in my career from
that point on to help me in many many ways.
And then later down the road, I spent time with
Marty Schottenheimer's staff, with the chiefs that Tony Dungee was
(33:55):
part of Bill Kauer et cetera. Bruce Are and and
and so these guys have been people that have been
really influential to me for a long long time. Um,
why why do you think? I mean, obviously the numbers
are so downs, only four African American head coaches. You
were in Cincinnati for a long time. You guys went
to the playoffs five straight years? And what what people forget?
(34:17):
And t J. Hushman's outa who's one of your biggest fans,
of course played for He's like, man, you you don't
understand the culture change when Marvin Lewis got there. Why
why do you believe it's so hard it's been so
difficult for more African American coaches to get that opportunity. Well,
we have to continue to, uh really give opportunity for
(34:37):
young African American coaches, young minority coaches at every level.
We have to encourage them to take the time, uh
to to uh learn and grow from that point on.
And and that's what I was able to do. But
you also somewhat luck of the drawer, and I thought
it was my uh, my uh experience and my responsibility
(35:03):
to help grow young coaches all the time, and I
think that's important and we've got to have more of that,
more than mentoring, more providing more opportunity to grow young
coaches from the ground up and give them an opportunity
and be able to to show that they have great expertise.
To so many times the African American coaches, he gets
(35:26):
kudos for handling his group, but what people have to know,
he can also get kudos for handling the entire room,
the entire side of the football. You know, one of
the things that I think separates you and herm. Obviously
you guys have both been head coach in the NFL,
but you guys both really really value education, right like
when you're at the state, you've got your master's degree
and and um, you know that there's this you're now
(35:49):
mentoring young men and they're coming in and we have
these protests and and a need for a need for
everyone to be heard, not just for justice and terms
of the police, but just how people are viewed in society.
How is that How do you relay that message to
young men who are going through something you went through
(36:10):
so long ago. We are we're trying to on a
daily basis mentor our guys. Uh. Coach Staff came out
with a text today literally just half an hour hour ago,
and and and that's what we are his responsibility. That's
why I'm here with him. You know, this is a
guy who's been a friend of mine for a long
long time. We obviously live here. I just spent three
(36:33):
hours in the pool with my two grandsons. I'm blessed
to be here with him and with Bray Anderson. But
but also they help further what they're all about, and
they help our players really read the ability to grow
as men, the black men to be become fathers and
and everything in their way that they have every opportunity
(36:54):
open every door we can open for them. Uh, that's
our responsibility. And that's what it's about every day here
at a su It's so funny. We were talking to
the Antonio Peers and I about something where someone said, well,
they don't do this. You know, we do this every day.
That's what we do. That's what coach terms all about.
Every single days helped mentoring you and bringing all of you,
(37:16):
I don't care what color you are, bringing you forward
as a man. And and obviously you've done that for
so many for so long, Um, what about getting back
to the NFL. You're only sixty one. You know, you
got twenty years of coaching left in you. If you if, if,
if you want, how much does that burn within you
to get back to that level? Well, what what burns
(37:38):
in me is is last year, as you said, I
was with her at issue is my title is special advisor.
So my job was to help mentor the coaches and
the players and help and ways off the field. And
uh what I figured out during that time, and I
was so blessed that they gave me the opportunity to
do that that I missed coaching, you know, I literally coaching,
(38:01):
and so uh as we moved forward, I don't know
what's in the cards. I do know that if the
people people that I feel good about, because that's where
I am right now in my life. I got it
feel good about those people. And I was black to
work with the Brown family for the years that I did,
and I know each and every day we may not
have always came in and a Greek when we left
(38:22):
the room, we all agreed and we're on the same page.
And that was very important to me. And I think
where you become a head coach. That's so so important
and uh, and that's what looking forward to. If something
is there in the future, we'll see what happens. You know.
It's it's really amazing, right and that that's that's you know,
you're you're a lot of disagree behind closed doors and
walk out here. We're all on the same page. And
that's that's how we have to represent ourselves. It's it's interesting. Um,
(38:46):
you know, look, when you took over, they were the
Bungles and then you guys. Uh, then you guys, for
the most part, we're a winning franchise. Obviously, since you've left,
they've fallen on some really really hard times. They were
there having people that said, hey, Joe Brow, you should
you shouldn't go there, you should refuse to go there.
Pull an Eli Manning if you will. Um, how hard
is how hard was it from your perspective to turn
(39:08):
around that culture from the losing culture to the winning
culture you were able to install. You know, it's funny
you said, because I was blessed to be you know,
within my time in the NFL with guys who were
first time head coaches and let's just say Paul Hackett
University of Pittsburgh, Bill Kower with the Steelers, Brian Billick
(39:30):
with the Ravens, and then later on UH coach Spurry
her and there in Washington. So I was able to
watch and learn from these coaches and how they did things.
And one of the things that Brian Billy said that
I'll never forget, you know, and I and I you know,
we we all are copiers and coaching. Ryan said to
(39:50):
the players, you know what, there were good coaches here
before you, before I came in this building, and you
guys got them fired. You're not gonna give me fired.
And and to me that resonates so much with what
this all about that you know what it soon you
know there are good coaches all over the place and
(40:11):
UH and and we really UH the staff that was
able to put together and Mike having to convince Mike
this is the way I would like to do it,
and I learned that's what it is. And he's truly Uh.
It was like a father to me in many many ways.
We we talked every single day. And I owe Tom Donohoe,
(40:33):
who I worked with with the Steelers and people like
that who are in my background to have that kind
of relationship with the owner. That's very, very important. A
lot of coaches don't have that. And when the owner
is on site like I had, and always involved in everything,
it was really important that he and I and then
the rest of the group that made decisions were always
on the same page. And that's what I learned. If
(40:55):
I were to give you a pen and a piece
of paper and say, you've lived it, you know you
You've worked your way as a college player, as a
college assistant, as an intern, you went to Canada for
some stuff, and then work your way up, became a
defense coordinator, won a Super Bowl with one of the
most dominant defenses we've ever seen, and then of course
had to you know, turned around the Bengals. Um if
(41:15):
I would say, hey, Marvin Lewis, coach Lewis, write the
Rooney Rule, how would it read? Well? I think we've
made some some big strides. I think the ability to
provide opportunity for coaches to move uh from position coaches
to coordinators is a huge I know why it was
taken away because people were abusing it, but I do
(41:38):
think that provides more opportunity for coaches to make decisions
based on what's important to them. If it's important for
me to go to from teammate to team B because
now I can be the offensive coordinator. I think it's
very important to give them that opportunity, and maybe they
don't take that opportunity, maybe where they are to stay
uh constant in the position oats and whatever the the
(42:02):
the organization wants to do everything they can to keep
them and and they have a succession plan which we
had in Cincinnati many times to say, looks, don't take
that job when so and so leaves here, You're going
to be the next coordinator here. And I think that
resonates with coaches then they feel good about that. And
(42:22):
I think, but that's off to each coach individually to
make that kind of decision for his family. And I
think that with the expansion of that is really really
important with the Rooney Rule and also to provide ask
for more opportunities to take a deeper dive into the
Canadate pool. We also have to continue to develop young
(42:44):
people into the pool, whether they be the assistance, quality control,
the things that we need to have so that we
can continue to provide opportunity for them to feel good
about working their way up into the pool. Uh, you
know all the time people said you had to be
a coordinator, then you had to be a play caller. Well,
(43:06):
sometimes the rules change, so let's just understand what it
is and let's just provide an opportunity across the board,
regardless of race, of what the opportunities are. Marva, great stuff. Man.
Glad you got a chance to spend time with the
grandkids today. Now get back to work and get that
defense up in Humming because the kids are showing up
on Monday. Appreciate you spending some time with this. Thanks
(43:28):
very much. Pleasure is all mine.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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