April 12, 2021 • 48 mins
Doug Gottlieb talks about the dysfunction that grew within the Eagles organization and how it eventually led to where they’re at today. NBC Sports NFL analyst Chris Simms joins the show to clear the air on what he knows about Kyle Shanahan’s plan with the third-overall pick. He weighs in on Kevin Durant’s comments that he isn’t primarily motivated by winning championships and explains how the 2x NBA champion is very similar to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Doug speaks with The Athletic’s Sheil Kapadia to discuss his bombshell article on the dysfunction within the Philadelphia Eagles organization.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gotlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
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(00:22):
of the Doug got Leave Show on Fox Sports Radio.
What happened to the Eagles? Right? We've talked about it
since the day they won the Super Bowl, that this
whole idea, they're just gonna run it back and we're
gonna have more fun than anybody else, and not a
great plan. And look, you can, you can poke fun
(00:43):
all you want at the Patriots and their lack of
having fun. Hey, but the Patriots for twenty years, twenty
years were remarkably competitive, and even last year when they're
superstar quarterback chose to play somewhere else, they had eight
opt outs on defense. Even with that pictures was seven games,
(01:07):
was still very competitive with teams that more talent than
they did. So, so what's the difference between the Patriots
and the Eagles organization? I think we have some idea um.
One source told the Athletic in regards to Doug Peterson
coaching with the Eagles, the fact that Doug had the
success he did with all the bleak going on in
(01:30):
the building. Sometimes I look at our Super Bowl rings
and I'm like, holy cow, I don't know how he
did it. So st Peterson was beaten down by the
constant second guessing quote. They treated him like a baby.
Jeffrey Laurie put his UM on the scale when the
team was prepared to make another selection in the draft
last year, each of the eagles first three selections UM
(01:52):
TCU receiver Jalen reagor who, of course you know, justin
Jefferson was selected after UM Jalen Hurts and Davian Taylor
mystified some scouts and coaches watching from home just like
everybody else. Okay, So Jeffrey Lori Parsley screwed this thing
up making some calls. Howie roseland Mosman partially screwed this
(02:16):
thing up, making some calls. There's a dysfunctional relationship between
the the analytics department, or one guy in analytics who
just happened to have a close relationship with the son
of the owner and with the coaching staff. All that
leads to a powder keg, which finally exploded this year. Right,
(02:36):
that's what happened. It's a powder keg. It finally exploded.
There's an expression in basketball and he goes like this,
you dot, you can't play with one eye on the bench.
And look, I'm guilty of it sometimes too, when I'm
I coach kids this weekend and you're coaching them and
they're messing up, and you can't like I've seen to
(02:57):
my voice is not perfect, and you keep and can
you tell him every time? Likely? But what you can
do is you can't give him one or two things
to focus on doing, like, hey, I really need you
to box out every time on the court, and then
like the second time, you're like, hey, if you don't
box out, then I'm gonna have to take out. And
then finally you take him out, and then it becomes
(03:17):
kind of revolving door. I put him back in. Okay,
you don't box down. I gotta take you back because
if you just allow the same thing to happen over
and over and over and over again, you're you're part
of the problem. I'm part of the problem. So if
you're part of if you're you're part of solution, you're
part of solution, you're part of the problem. That's totally different, bro,
(03:41):
totally different. Um. On the other hand, you cannot be
so quick with your hook. You cannot. I just can't
play a guy who if he's not perfect, you take
him out because what happens is that guy he's never
(04:02):
going to play with supreme self confidence. And if you
don't play with the self confidence, like, what's the point, right? So,
so the expression is um uh. The the expression is
I can't play with one eye on the bench. I
have to have my coaches trust at least to play
(04:23):
my game. And if I screw up, I know I
might come out. But I can't play thinking I'm gonna
come out at the first mistake. That is, he can't
play with one eye on the bench. Does every understand that.
I mean, you make a play like you'll watch kids
play sometimes and they make a mistake or they make
a play and they always look at their coach or
they always look at their parents play one on invention.
(04:44):
I can't believe that way. Um, Well, in this case,
you can't coach with one eye on the owner's box.
You can't. It's an impossible situation. Now they hired Sirianni,
who's an unknown. He's a up it, you know, he's
a yes man. Now does that mean that's not a
(05:06):
job that ultimately you can't succeed at? Of course you can't.
Like only thirty two jobs, and if that's the one
that's offered to you, if the first couple of years,
you gotta eat a little dirt, you gotta do what
they say, you gotta find a way to get in again.
It's not an impossible job, but it's really unlikely that
you're gonna have sustained long term success. The reason it
(05:29):
makes sense for Serrianni is like, look, one is only
thirty two jobs to to get another job. You're much
better off having been a head coach. It's like, all right,
it's not the best situation. It's not a huge likelihood
of you winning. And this is really an ugly tale
of an owner overstepping his bounds. Like all of that
(05:50):
stuff I get, but and and the best way to
get another head coaching job and say, hey, I've been
a head coach before. But the chances you read this
and it paints the picture of an owner who's not
a football guy but wants to make football decisions. Um
(06:12):
a team president and Howie Roseman who not a football
guy per se, but wants to make all the football
decisions and just an over zealous front office, if you will,
in regards to how much they're involved in everything and anything,
which means they want credit when you lose and wanted
(06:33):
to flesh credit when you excuse me, They want credit
when you win, and they want to fleg credit when
you lose. Is it if if if you lose, you're
getting fired. If you win, they want to get they
want to get credit. That's the end these There are
jobs like that on life. The likelihood of success is
(06:57):
not great. Does that mean you don't take it? Probably
do if you. But now it explains a whole lot
why Doug Peterson got the job to begin with, why
some of their decisions have been so bizarre, why it
fell apart, and why it was hard to find any
sort of big name that would take the job this
(07:18):
year and they couldn't find one. I mean, Carson Wentz
not playing well. Isn't the reason that they're not consistently
as successful as they should be. Carson Wentz not playing
well kind of that allowed everybody to go under the
(07:39):
hood and figure out exactly what's wrong with this organization.
And maybe maybe it being exposed publicly helps or maybe
the fingerpoint will only consider only continue. My guests would
be somebody will get fired today, or somebody will get
blamed today for lying or saying something to the media
about these decisions, which ownership and the front office wants
(08:02):
nothing to do with. Howie Roseman has made himself essential, Laurie,
this is a survivor, one source told Roseman. This is
someone who understands how to stay close to the most
important point person in the building. The whole thing is fascinating,
you know, the more the more that I live. Do
(08:23):
you remember this TV show Survivor? Do you guys ever
watch the show Survivor. Here's what's interesting about it. Survivor
is a reality TV show, and I stopped kind of
watching it after really the first or second season because
it never didn't have anything anymore to do with surviving,
(08:44):
right like Naked and Afraid is much more about surviving
than anything. Survivor is more about social jiu jitsu and
just surviving the the tribe, if you will, the more
I live. The more I learn, the more I read,
the more I understand the TV shows Survivor is basically
(09:05):
real life one on one. Be sure to catch the
live edition of The Doug gott Leaps Show weekdays at
three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio a app. Let me welcome
in the one and the one and only Chris Sims,
who last week we really needed him. We missed can
we we missed each other on that that bumped me
(09:26):
out now. Also, everybody wants Chris so he's been cool
enough to join us, Okay, Chris So, look um, everybody
thinks that because you were roommates with Kyle that when
you speak, you're like you can barely see the strings
moving or your Kyle's lips moving when you're when the
(09:48):
words coming out of your mouth, you know, whatever analogy
you want to. Uh So, in regards to what Kyle
is gonna do at three, have you guys talked about it? No,
not a not what they're doing at three? No, not
a at all. Um, We've had no discussions. We've discussed,
you know, the draft early on in the process, but
he wasn't even really kind of all the way in it.
(10:10):
Yet at that point it was at a point where
it was really he was still dealing with free agency.
I was already diving into the draft and we had
some casual conversations. That's about all we talked about it
so far. Okay, So when you look at this draft class, um,
there are people who go like, like, why would you
do mac Jones at three? Like, he's got some limitations athletically,
(10:33):
And by the way, if if they're true to their
word in terms of what their what their plan is,
you know, then then if you're gonna sit a guy
and have him learned behind Garoppolo, wouldn't you want to
have a guy who needs to be developed more than
than mac Jones. When you look at this class, who
do you think fits Kyle the best? Well, listen, I
(10:55):
think you can make a case for all of them.
There's no doubt about that. I mean, listen, as a fan,
would I be excited to be see justin Fields or
Tray Lance and the Kyle Shanahan offense. There's no doubt
about it. There's gonna be some really cool things that
you can you know, you can do with those type
of quarterbacks Athletically, their ability to run. Yeah, is their
(11:15):
arms stronger, you know, just pure power than Mac Jones certainly,
so from that aspect, I am excited about that, But
I do also think like what people are missing about that?
You know? First off, the one thing I'm realizing during
draft time, potential only means running. Apparently it's the only
thing You're not allowed to grow potential anywhere else. So
this guy has potential, which means he can run. But
(11:37):
what Mac Jones has no potential because he can run?
That that makes no sense. Again, the game is still
about people dicing people up with within the pocket, you know,
that's the big thing. So am I would I be
excited to see the lance and field thing. Sure, I
would love to see that. That would be really cool,
you know, but just as in I would love to
(11:58):
see that, and that be cool, And yet they couldn't
do some of that stuff With Mac Jones, I can
easily flip that around and go there's a lot of
play action and drop back passing and pro concepts and
working of the pockets that those guys can do nearly
as good as Mac Jones at this point of their career. Now,
Matt Jones, I know, is never going to get as
(12:19):
fast as like those two. Those guys can improve on
their their quarterback play within the pocket, decision making, drowing
and all of that. But the big thing is with
mac Jones is he's, you know, a great decision maker.
He's got a real good arm. You know, his ability
to like go through reads is as good as I've
ever seen, really other than Joe Burrow coming out in
(12:41):
the draft last year. You know. Then you know, the
ability to place the ball exactly where you want it's
up there as good as I've seen since I've been
on this side of the business too. So I think,
you know, ultimately and knowing my friend, he's liked those
kind of quarterbacks. And that's where I come off always
going to the Mac Jones thing, Doug, because especially you
(13:02):
know Matt Ryan. He had two years with Matt Ryan,
one of which was really special and they were really
close to winning a super Bowl. You know, in my
heart of hearts, I think he looks at this Mac
Jones guy and thinks, hey, it's Matt Ryan two point oh,
and if you give me more than two cracks at
it with this guy, I'm gonna win a super Bowl.
And that's why I've been saying Mac Jones from the
(13:23):
get go. That's that's who I think it ultimately will be.
Doug ot Leaves Show, you're on Fox Sport Trader. That's
the voice of Chris Sam's former starting quarterback in the
Nash Football League. Of course, work with the New England Patriots,
and now you can see him on Football Night in
America on NBC covering Nash Football League. You can listen
to on Pro Football Talk as well. Um, well, let
me get to the other two. Okay, so that's how
(13:46):
you view Mac. Now you got TREYE. Lance, you got
Justin Fields. I there's still a distinct possibility somebody trades
up with at Land or trades up you know, maybe
Washington moves up to to get a quarterback. Of those two,
who do you like the best? Well, it's really it's
tough for me out of those two, Okay, you know,
(14:07):
I think this is I like the consistency in which
Tray Lance throws the football better than I do with
Justin Fields. I do now not to say train Lance
is perfect either, you know, And then I guess I
would say I'd like the size and athleticism a little
bit more than on Fields and Lands, and ultimately I
(14:27):
came down like you know, the splitting hairs with those guys,
and I made justin Fields or moved him in front
of Tray Lance just because he's played more football, you
know to me, you know with with Lands, hey, there's
a lot I like definitely, you know, quality of competition,
you know, would I always find funny duck people bring
that up with Zack Wilson, but for some reason with
(14:48):
Trey Lance is not the top of a conversation. I
don't get that at all. So one guy gets used
against the other one it's even more prevalent, but they
we don't even talk about it. I don't understand that
about the draft drives me nuts. I'm sorry, I don't
need to, like, like it's kind of fascinating, right, yeah,
your your your your your your dad played where in college? Yes?
(15:10):
Morehead State? Right? But where Steve Young right, like Salon.
I mean you can go through you know, Ben Roethlisberger
in Miami, Ohio. That's not necessarily like you know Ball
or Supreme University there either so but but but either way,
getting back to that topic there, Yes, I gave Fields
(15:32):
the advantage just through playing experience. But like both. To me,
I have concerns about both of them. I really do.
You know. One Field has some mechanical issues throwing the
football that I don't love, and it is a lot
of like first read, wide open throws within that offense.
Trey Lance, you know, I like his throwing. It is
(15:55):
very simple and he hasn't thrown the ball a whole
lot altogether. But don't love his throwing. He only has
a few clubs in the bag for lack of a
better way to say it, where every ball is really
just throw it hard. There's not a lot of touch balls.
He's not a great deep ball thrower. That's all there
is to that let alone. He played on a team
that was more dominant than Alabama was at the Division
(16:18):
one level. They just could run over everybody. Nobody was
good competition for them, and they they got away with
having to drop back to pass with them twelve fourteen
times a game, you know. To me, and that's where
I'm different, I guess than everybody else. None of that
speaks to top five talents for me. With justin Fields
or tray Lands. I look at them as second half
(16:40):
of the first round type quarterbacks, and that to me
will be one of the intriguing parts of the draft
because I do not view them as top ten talents.
Right now as we sit here, there's a there's a
story out about the Eagles. I don't know if you're
ready in the Athletic and it basically says like, look,
Jeffrey Lori's son is a buddy who runs our analytics department.
That between analytics Howie Roseman and the owner Laurie there's
(17:04):
all these chefs in the kitchen, and it was really
hard for Doug Peterson to survive. I've talked about people,
They're like, look, the analytics thing is really really helpful.
There has to be a balance and there has to
be a relationship there between coaching and scouts, and some
places do it well, in some places don't do it well.
You've been you've you've been around this league your whole life.
(17:25):
You've worked on a slave in New England. When you
hear the story about the Eagles, what is your reaction, Well,
I I have heard some of that a little bit,
that there just was a lot of miscommunication as far
as evaluating players and drafts and things like that, you
know over the last few years that yeah, you know,
some of the people in the personnel department are disappointed
(17:47):
in Howie because Howie, you know what, wasn't strict with
staying with the board and how they evaluated people, you know,
throughout the whole process and kind of you know, decided
to do his own thing at the last second of
whatever else. So yeah, that's you know, that's never gonna
work when when one guy just decides to you know,
make his own decisions, Hey, the hell with everybody else. Hey,
(18:09):
this is the process that made us successful. But this
year I'm gonna go against it and just go on
a whim or a gut ceiling. Uh that that's never
a positive. But how He has had so many good
years of doing good things that I would imagine they
get back on track. And to me, they are one
of those teams you sit there at number twelve where
I go, yeah they I know they've talked about no quarterback,
(18:31):
but they're interesting, Doug. I mean, because yeah, they don't
want quarterback, no channel and hurts, but what are they
gonna do with Justin Fields or Trey Lancer on the
board there at twelve. I have a hard time thinking
they're gonna pass them up. I do so they're one
of the again, one of the interesting teams or things
about this draft, the quarterbacks, some of the high talented
players in this draft who have injury histories, you know,
(18:54):
the COVID opt outs and all those things. I think,
really you're gonna add to one of the more we're
fascinating first rounds we've seen in a long time, no question,
Doug outlives show here on Fox Sports Radio. All right,
how do you balance out the quarterbacks with the skill
position guys or some of the other guys in the draft,
like like the Kyle pitts Is of the world, who
I'm not sure where he's actually he's actually an X
(19:16):
men that that's really what it is. That's the explanation
for six six, two forty running a running a four
four right the he has to He's just he's not
like you and me, like he can bend, steal with
his arms or whatever. How do you balance out? Um,
you know, we're like, well, tight end isn't usually a
position to go that high in the draft, but this
guy just jumps off the charts at you. Yeah, well,
(19:37):
you know, I mean, yes, quarterback is always gonna get
top end value, you know, you know, even even if
it's like, hey, let's you know apples for apples. We
bet we but we have a let's say, uh, you know,
an eight plus grade on this quarterback and the eight
plus grade on on Pits. The quarterback is always going
to get the advantage if there's real need for both
positions on that team. You know, I would even say
(19:58):
in a lot of cases, and more than not, even
if the quarterback has an A minus grade and there's
an A plus grade for another position player, that the
quarterback is still gonna get favored in the big scheme
of things and be put in front of that player
despite the grade, because of the importance of the position.
So there is the balancing of that altogether. And Pitts
(20:20):
Pitts is, Yeah, he's one of those guys of you know,
where exactly does he fall in the first round. Yeah,
he's a special talent. There's no doubt about that. You know,
the Banals, the Falcons, I'm sure they're they're got him
towards the top of their list as far as like
teams that could draft him. But I think the quarterback,
just to answer your question, has significant more value because
(20:42):
of the importance of the position. The ball being in
his hands and what he does for the rest of
the offense as compared to an every down position player,
no question, no question about this Doug Olive show here
on Fox Sports Radio. Um, you know Jon Glad, he's
probably gonna sign with the Browns or something like how
worthy of discussion is he? Because he does He's had
(21:04):
some productive seasons. He obviously had crazy amount of talent
knee injury. He's been seeing the guy who's not not
not an every down like indefatigable guy. Um, but he
is a talent and if you add him maybe to
the browns stout defensive line, maybe it opens up things
for everybody else. When when you hear Jadeveon Clowney might
sign with the Browns, what do you think, Well, I
(21:27):
think it's like, I mean, it's a perfect fit if right,
I mean, there's a lot of ifs there. If you know,
pubished off Cleveland. They're running the Seattle scheme on defense.
Joe Woods a defensive coordinator. He just came from the
forty Niners. So they want pass rushers. They want to
rush with the front four and drop seven. That's what
Seattle scheme does, right, So they're looking for their Nick
(21:50):
Bosa Dfard combination, you know, or uh any of the
great one Melbourne Ingram Joey Bosa, same defensive scheme, all
of that. Yeah, so it's that match zone. They want
that other guy. But I mean it all comes down
to Clowney and just what he's asking financially. I mean,
he's an extremely risky signing. You know, as far as
(22:10):
the injury history that you brought up. He's physical as hell.
He's an awesome football player. You'd love to have him
on your football team. But man, I mean he's been
dealing with injuries really for the better part of the
last five or six years now. We've seen him in
the scheme up in Seattle with Pete Carroll, and we
saw that when he was healthy there it was damn special.
(22:32):
But again, even up there two years ago, it was
only a handful of games and he was heard or
battling injury and doing things like that. So I understand Cleveland.
They got the money to spend and get a guy
like that, I would think that he's not going to
be able to demand a huge price tag on the market.
And with even in that, I would think Cleveland's probably
(22:53):
still gonna be maybe looking for a pass rusher somewhere,
you know, second, third, fourth round for the just in
case he does get hurt. Clowney thing, they have one
more guy to come off the edge and apply that pressure.
But the Browns, they're sitting in a pretty spot. They're
a really well orchestrated team. There's not a lot of
needs for that football team altogether, and uh, Clowney certainly
(23:16):
fits what they're trying to do there. When a trailer, Uh,
listen to Chris, Greg catch up with you. Can't wait
to talk more. We get closer and closer to the draft.
Hope you're well and thanks for being our guests. Yeah,
you're the man, Doug. I'll talk to you. Take care
of that voice. Man. Be sure to catch the live
edition of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three
p m. Easter noon Pacific. Hey, it's me Rob Parker.
(23:36):
Check out my weekly MLB podcast, Inside the Parker for
twenty two minutes of pipe and hot baseball talk, featuring
the biggest names of newsmakers in the sport. Whether you
believe in analytics or the eye test, We've got all
the bases covered. New episodes drops every Thursday. So do
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(23:58):
Rob Parker or the I Heart Radio app or wherever
you get your podcast show. Uh Kevity had joins this
from The Athletic, a great piece that I read. I
was doing the Dan Patricks Show and all of a
sudden popped up and I start reading, going like, man,
can we get you on now? Like no, We're gonna
wait later. Um, okay, So obviously you cover the philadelph
(24:22):
Eagles for the Athletic, and uh, Doug Peterson didn't want
to be quoted, didn't want to have comment on on
the article itself. But and you tell me if I'm wrong.
You paint the picture of an owner who is really
involved in the everyday decision making, and he's created this
analytics department that's led by a friend of his son
(24:45):
who eventually will take over, we think, for the owner.
And there's kind of in fighting in a power struggle
between uh, the analytics department and the scouting department and
the coaching staff. And then Howie Roseman is really close
to the owner, and UH that feels like the front
office and the coaching staff struggled at least again based
(25:05):
upon your sources to be able to make their own
decisions without the owner, and Howie Roseman interjecting, is that
is that fair? Yeah? I don't even know where to
begin with this, honestly, I guess said that. I didn't
know what my first question was. I just want to
for people who haven't read the article, I just want
to paint a picture of what you painted. Yeah. No,
I think what you said was fair, And I guess
(25:27):
the big picture of view is that, yes, you know,
this was a team that won the Super Bowl and
in three years, uh, they fired their head coach, they
trade their quarterback, they have a four win season, and
who's left standing and who's left standing as the owner
Jeffrey Lury and the GM Howie Roseman, who is now
the GM under his fourth head coach, which is sort
(25:47):
of unprecedented, uh in NFL history. So yeah, I think
you painted that fairly. You know. It's it's interesting because
obviously he was swept aside when Chip Kelly came in
and some of his guys were traded it off and whatever,
and the chip Kelly thing. They won twenty games the
first two years, and then the bottom bottom fell out
and then Howie Rosemand kind of regained and reassumed power.
(26:10):
What about Peterson in terms of when he got the job,
because when you start at the beginning of the piece,
it's Hey, the year they won the Super Bowl, there
were some meetings with with jeff Schwartz at this at
this uh, Jim Schwartz excuse me, at the start of
the season with the owner, and Peterson wasn't involved. And
there are many people that thought he could replace Doug Peterson. Well,
(26:32):
they just kept winning. What about Peterson when he got
the job, did he think he would have any more
control than he did? Right, So, Doug Peterson gets the
job in two thousand sixteen, he was not really a
hot candidate. And the thought then was kind of the
thought now, which is that this isn't an owner in
Jeffrey Lury, who wants to be, you know, pretty hands
on and he's got the right to do that. He
owns the team, and a general manager in Howie Rosman,
(26:55):
who has a lot of control. You know, this isn't
a situation like you see with some teams around the
league where the head coach has control of the fifty
three man roster and other key decisions. This is a
situation where the general manager, Howie Roseman, is going to
be making those decisions. So I think they wanted a
head coach who was not going to be involved in
personnel and who would kind of fit with the philosophy
(27:17):
they had for the organization. So that's two thousand sixteen.
They have an okay year, Uh, they're around five. I
think they had seven wins that year. They weren't great.
They had serious questions about Doug Peterson going into two
thousand seventeen, and so that was one of the anecdotes
we uncovered was that, you know, prior to the first
game of the season, Jeffrey Lurry has this long meeting
with defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz, who has been a head
(27:39):
coach in the NFL before. I mean three four or
five hours. Somebody described it as to me, Now, you know,
owners can have meetings with coaches whenever they want. However,
there was a feeling in the building by multiple people
we talked to at that time that the owner, Jeffrey Lury,
was vetting internal candidates to replace Doug Peterson should the
Eagles get off to a start. Now fast forward, what
(28:01):
happened the Eagles go on a tear, Carson Wiskin's injured,
Nick Folk comes in, They win the Super Bowl that year,
and so that changes, um, you know, really the entire
narrative around Doug Peterson. But it's kind of a look
back that you know, that was not their expectations going
into that season, to the point where some in the
building thought that they were getting ready to move on
from Peterson. Uh, Doug. At Leap Show here on Fox
(28:24):
Sports Radio, we're discussing Shioa Capati, who rights for the Athletic.
He wrote a piece I you know, if you subscribe,
you know socriety Athletic is not very expensive. Unbelievable writing
and insight into all your favorite sports teams. And he
wrote a piece on the Eagles, who he covers and
kind of what happened to the downfall that the dysfunction
within a franchise at won a Super Bowl and then
they say, hey, we're gonna have more fun than the Patriots.
(28:46):
All that fun left left left, the coach fired and
the quarterback being being traded to the old offensive old
offensive coordinator who is now a successful head coach with
the Colts. Um who was most responsible for orson Wentz's
contract for his contract, He's got to look at the
the owner in the GM, I mean, Jeffrey Lourie and
(29:07):
Howie Roseman. To be fair, Uh, it was not. You know,
at the time when I wrote about it, I wasn't
saying this is a terrible move. I mean a lot
of times, if you have a quarterback who's on a
rookie contract, who you are confident in, it is smart
to get that big contract out of the way early
because you're confident in him. The price is only going
to go up. And so when they made that move,
(29:29):
you know, they thought maybe the floor for Carson Wentz
is he's gonna be like that, you know, the twelve
fest quarterback in the NFL. Well, you can live with
that because they thought he had a high feeling. They
did not anticipate that the floor for Carson Wentz was
going to be among the worst starting quarterbacks in the NFL,
which was the case last year. But I do think
it's fair for that to look at the decision at
(29:49):
the time it was made. You know, a team like
the Dallas Cowboys, right, they waited on Dak Prescott, and
they waited and they waited and all of a sudden,
they're paying a lot more this offseason than they would
have last offseason. So I don't think that was sort
of their biggest failure. You know, I think teams make
mistakes and you've got to make decisions. But if that's
all it was, I don't think it would be a
huge deal. I think their biggest failures are sort of
(30:10):
the relationships in the building, the lack of collaboration you
alluded to, where it's analytics having friction with the coaching staff,
coaching staff having friction with the front office, and really
the only people who have full transparency of what's going
on in all those departments and who have all that
information is the g M. Howie Roseman and the owner
Jeffrey Lury. So you know, there are decisions that are made,
(30:32):
like the one to draft Jail and Hurts last year,
that leaves people in the building, Uh, kind of scratching
their heads going, wait a minute, you know, I did
not think this was part of the plan. So I
think that's the key with them going forward. Can they
build that sort of different type of culture where everyone
feels like they're pulling in the same direction. Um, the
analytics department is it one guy, Is it a whole department,
(30:53):
It's it's four people. It's four people. But the head
of that his name is Ala Callabi. He's got a
vice president title. He's been with the organization for ten years.
And uh, you know, there's a feeling in the building
by some that this guy has Jeffrey Lury and Howary
Roseman's ear and so that he has kind of this
oversized influence. So other people in the building they see
(31:14):
certain decisions that are made and they say, hey, we
know why that was made because the analytics staff gave
Lurry and Rosman that information. Now again, I come back
to if your GM is a CEO type GM and
his job is to tie every department together, then he's
got to manage that relationship. I mean, Doug, this is
not a new dynamic right in professional sports, the analytics
(31:35):
staff not getting along with the coaching staff or traditional scouts.
I mean, this happens everywhere. However, if you have buy
in from your owner, which they do in Jeffrey Lurry,
that analytics is going to be a significant part of
what we're gonna do, We're gonna be at the forefront
of this, Well, then you need to manage those relationships
so that coaches, scouts, personnel people, they don't feel second guests.
(31:55):
They feel like, hey, the analytics are actually here to
help us. We're all working together, and that has not
been the key. Yeah. No, I mean listen, Buffalo has
a tremendous analysts department, and those guys seem to be
getting along and doing it well. I think the question
is is it because like you said, it's not what
they've done, it's how they've handled what they've done. Right.
Did you hire a guy who's really qualified and happens
(32:16):
to be the buddy of the owner's son or is
he just really really qualified, you know? And but or
is he just just a buddy and that's why he
got the job? And I think that breeds the breeds
the mistrust. Um, what about the draft the past couple
of years. You point out the Jalen reagor pick I
mean per for example, Justin Jefferson goes right behind him.
(32:36):
Was was that? Howie? Was that? LORI? How do you?
How do you when you have need a wide receiver,
you take a wide receiver and you take the wrong one.
Whose fault was it? Yeah? That was a situation where
the scouts and the personnel staff. To my understanding one
at Justin Jefferson. They felt like, this guy is the
superior player. Look at how we stacked the board. Uh,
(32:58):
he is absolutely ahead of Jail and Rigor on the board.
Now this goes back to what I just said. Howie
Roseman is the only one who has input from every department.
So he comes back and says, well, you know, some
of the coaches think that Jefferson is more of a
slot receiver than an outside receiver. We need an outside
receiver with some speed, and so he's putting the entire
puzzle together. Now. You know, I would say that the
(33:19):
GM needs to get those two sides in a room
talk it out. You know. Scouts, hey, can Justin Jefferson
play on the outside for us? They say, yes, here's why,
and then maybe that would lead to a better process.
But I think it is you know, the lack of transparency.
And again they they the Ragar pick was basically, uh,
they felt like the coaching staff thought Ragor would be
a better fit on the outside and they thought Jefferson
(33:42):
was more of a slot receiver. And Howie Roseman, you know,
takes that input and he makes the decisions a draft,
jail and rager. Okay, so what now, well, what is
the state of them? You painted a great picture for
the dysfunction. When Peterson's there, they bring in a Nick Sirianni,
who it feels like a yes man, right, feels you
can barely see how he's lips moving when Nick Sirianni speaks.
(34:06):
Is that is that a real way of looking at
it or is that unfair and considering he'll be giving
a chance to actually coach. Well, that's there's no doubt
that that's the feeling by you know, some people in
the building that yes, they found another guy who they
can kind of say, all right, here's how we're gonna
do things. We're going to influence you this way. We're
gonna help you pick your coaching staff. We're gonna addictate
(34:28):
you know, Hey, we want to be a pass first offense,
all these things. Now, having said that that was the
case with Doug Peterson in two thousand and sixteen, it
was a very similar situation and they ended up winning
the Super Bowl and getting to the playoffs three times.
So I don't want to paint it like, hey, that
was a complete disaster, and that complete failure. And this
is doomed as well. You know, Nick Sirianni proves that
(34:50):
he's a very good head coach, he will be given
that opportunity. But at the same time, you know, another
guy they were looking at was Josh McDaniels, and that
would have been a very different higher because the people
I talked said, all right, that was not this setup
was not gonna fly with a guy like Josh McDaniels.
You know, he was not just gonna say, Okay, you know,
pick whoever you want. Yeah, sure, I'll have these meetings
with you guys. I'll explain my every move. And so
(35:12):
this is a very different higher. This is more in
the Doug Peterson mold. So Sirianni will be given the opportunity.
He deserves the opportunity, you know, in the situation that
he's in. But certainly it's fear to characterize the feeling
by some in the building that they're just kind of
finding another guy who they feel like they can influence
and who they feel like we'll fit with what they
want to do. Um Jalen Hurts, I know there's like
(35:34):
an infatuation with him because he was a part a
couple of winning teams in college, and he came in
and they beat the Saints, but the production got worse
every time he was out there, and there are some
limitations to him, and he wasn't viewed as a second
round guy. Um how I mean he's gonna be the
guy I guess, But again, how he said that before
when he resigned Sam Bradford and they went and drafted Wins.
(35:57):
What is your sense of their their their buying Tod
Jale and Hurts short and long term? Yeah, you know,
I think them trading back from number six to number
twelve probably tells you that they didn't feel like they
were positioned to draft one of the quarterbacks. Whether that
means meant that they thought all those quarterbacks would be
gone this year, whether they didn't scalp them and think
they were top level prospects, that I don't know. But
(36:20):
obviously they did not think they were going to be
drafting your quarterback there, so they trade back. I do think,
barring something unforeseen, that jale and Hurts will be the
starter this season and they'll just kind of buy a year.
You know, they'll see r if he plays well and
it's really good and surprises us that's a great outcome,
but by no means are they tied to him long term.
You know, they've picked up an additional first round pick
(36:42):
by moving from six to twelve, and they also could
get another another first round pick in the Carson Wentz
trade if he plays like his snap, So they could
be going into two with three first round picks, and
that puts you in position to either move up to
draft a quarterback or if one of these veterans, like
we said with Matthew Stafford, if one of those guys
becomes available, and they will have the draft capital to
(37:05):
make that move. So I think they wanted different options
really going into next season, and that's why they made
that move. So I think hurts. You know, I think
he'll get a shot this year. I don't think anything
is promised to him beyond that. Sure, great stuff, and
I really like the piece. I love your insight and
appreciate having you on. Look forward to talking more in
the future. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
(37:25):
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart
Radio app search f s R to listen live. I
saw this over the weekend and I thought it was
really interesting, and it's it's one of those where we
can um where we can completely and totally stop, take
(37:49):
a breath, think about things and go, huh, maybe he's
making an interesting point. What it training the vehicle at
a railway crossing? The results are often deadly because the
crossings the signals are going. Don't be tempted to try
and stick across the tracks. And if you don't see
your train, stop trains can brought to you by Nitza.
(38:12):
I want you to listen to what Kevin says to
Rachel Nichols, and then I wanted I'm going to discuss
it with you and tell you what I hear. This
is k D. I wasn't expecting to be a happy
human being from a title. I was just expecting, like
you know, the ending of a movie. Once you work
so hard and everybody tells you like, yo, this is
what you need to be working for. Is this gold
ball and these rings? And I'm just like, all right, cool,
(38:34):
let me lock in a that. And I locked down
and wanting to achieve that, but I also realized a
lot of stuff that factors in it that's out of
my control. And once I won the championship. I realized that, Like, yo,
my view on this game is really about development. How
good can I be? It's not about let's go get
this championship. And I appreciate that stuff and I want
to win and experience that stuff, but it's not the
(38:55):
end all be all while I play the game. Huh um,
Like I think guys are looking at as a different
dip deeper meeting. I just look here, here's my take
on Kevin Durant. I think people told him. I don't
think I know people told him, Hey, in order to
(39:16):
be considered one of the all time grades, you need
to win a championship. She need to win too. If
you do that, everybody will respect your standing is one
of the all time grades. And like his point was
a really good one, like once you win, when you're like,
there's a lot of things that going to win a championship.
I mean, Toronto won a championship. Kauai is a champion
(39:39):
with the Spurs, but also one with the Raptors. But dude,
they weren't winning the less Golden State collapse and got hurt. Like,
does that make Kyle Lowry at all time grade? Like? No?
Fred Vamiley an all time great, good players. But like,
let's not kid ourselves. They don't win that championship except
for the fact that Lebron left the East and the
(39:59):
way end up providing the Warriors, and that year with
the Warriors, everybody got hurt, right, That's that's that's really
literally what happened. Um, I think he I don't again.
I know he was told, if you win, everybody will
respect you and you'll be seen as the best player
in the game. He won, He outplayed Lebron. If pop
were like, yeah, but you had to join a team.
(40:23):
So now he's taken the the hell with it. I'm
just gonna be my what what? What's the what do
the psychologists tell you the best version of yourself? Yeah,
I'm just gonna be the best version of myself and
being the best version of myself. I'm gonna sit here
(40:43):
and go, Yo, here's what I am. I'm just a
great player. I'm an artist. You're gonna appreciate me. Whoever
just appreciates my art appreciates you know. It's like, Um,
I have a I have a dear friend. His name
is Desert Mason. Do you guys remember the name Desertation?
Of course you do played in the NBA for a
decade um with the Bucks, with SuperSonics, with the Oklahoma
(41:04):
City Thunder remember that. Okay, I want to slam dunk
contest in two thousand one. So he's my college teammate.
He's a very very talented abstract artist. Now, if I
look at Desmond's paintings and it's named like War of
the North, like it could be anything like, okay, and
I just see lots of colors. It's very pretty. But Mace,
(41:25):
how much is that? How much was that commissioned for you? Like?
For that? Yeah, let me tell you my I was like,
I don't really care how you did it, Like I
love you. I would not pay fifty for that beauty
in the eyes of the holder. So artists, artists take
on like it like look and for everybody. I'm not
appreciated by everybody, don't care. I just want to be
(41:46):
the best artist I can so that artists appreciate the art.
That's where k D is. I think Kad wants to
put himself so far beyond the fans because he understands
that fans. I don't think he respects their knowledge of
the game. I think you know and I would guess
that's what he's saying. But I also think that this
is a he won championships and he does not feel
(42:08):
fulfilled by them. You know, He's like, look, I won
the championships. I did those things you said. If I
you know, I've done everything you have said I had
to do. You gotta win championships. I win championships. Now
what you gotta win? An pas? What m VP? You
gotta win? Score? Does I gotta win? Scorey teals? You
gotta make a franchise better, everybody around you better. I
did that Like Oklahoma City got got to the finals,
(42:28):
got to Western Conference. I was like, that wasn't a
great roster. I'll kid yourself. When they went to the
Western Conference finals, were up three games to one. So
I don't know, I don't have any idea um exactly
(42:49):
what he wants from basketball, but I think that Kevin Durant,
at some point you do throw your hands up and
go like that didn't fulfill me. Let me try something else.
That didn't fulfill me, Let me try something else. And
it's probably where the friendship and partnership came with with
Kyrie Irving. Kyrie's won a championship and remember after he
(43:10):
won the championship when he's with the Cleveland Cavaliers. The
story of the breakdown their relationship with him and Lebron
James is they won the championship, they came from behind
to beat the Warriors, they got home, and then Cabrie
found out that Lebron said, Hey, that's great, let's go
get Chris Paul instead of Kyrie Irving. Alright, So he's like, man,
that's that's not good enough for you. And so you
want like this, this meaning that's greater than a champion,
(43:33):
greater than whatever fans adulation. You become like an artist
and you want your art appreciated by other artists, and
you don't really care about the fans because you have
all the money, you have everything. Else which you really
want is how great you are, to be appreciated by
the people that understand what greatness is about. I think
that's what those guys are, and I just I get it.
(43:55):
I understand it. I respect it on some level, but
it's not what we play sports like. We don't play
sports for the artistic pleasure of man. Kevin Durant is
the best one on one score the game has ever happened.
I've told you I I think he's Kareem abdul Jabbar
two point oh. He has an he has an unstoppable
(44:17):
um move right like his has. He pull up is
basically on side, seven feet tall. He shoots the ball
so high it's you gotta do your work before he
gets the ball because once he gets it up, if
he has it's it's more about him than it's about you.
If he makes it makes himsim as he's known you
can do. He's also a little bit uncomfortable in his
(44:38):
own skin. He's very bright, but sometimes thinks he's smarter
than everybody in him like this is Kareim abdul Jabar.
I think like a revered college player. And I know
Durant didn't have the success in college that Kareem had,
but he was revered. Like we had Danny Manning on
this show and he said that he believes Kevin Durant
is the baddest too to ever play in Fogallan Field House.
Remember World Chamberlain and Danny Manning played there. So revered
(45:03):
college player, a little uncomfortable his own skin, smart but
sometimes thinks he's smarter than everybody else. Unstoppable weapon and
the scoring machine and one who may be appreciated more
when he's done playing than when he actually is playing.
Like all of those things are Kareem and Kevin Durant,
like the go hand in hand, and as great as
(45:24):
Kaream was six time m v P, six time finals, MVP,
six times Champion's great, nobody ever mentions Kareem as the
greatest player of all time ever, like literally, and it's like, well,
if you want to go older big guy, you gotta
go Bill Russell or dominant, you gotta go World Chamberlain
or modern day you go Tim Duncan, right, and people
just skip over Kareem abdul Jabar. They go Magic Johnson.
(45:46):
Magic never won a championship without Kareem. Doesn't mean Magic
wasn't great, but we skip over Kareem. That's what I
feel like we're gonna do with Kevin Durant, And that's
what Kevin Durant feels like it's coming. And that's what
I think some of this stuff comes from. Do I
think gets a bit of nonsense. Of course they do right,
Like every game you're ever in, you want to win,
(46:06):
You play to win at least that's and you should
feel bad when you lose, and you should feel extra
bad when you lose a playoff series when you have
the type of talent that he'll have around him. Uh
but but Kevin Durant saying like that's not what he
plays for, Like, I just he's a different catman. He
(46:27):
and Kyrie are Kyrie. And before awful thing that happened
in Minnesota over the weekend, before that, Kyrie was taking
tonight off, you know, for personal reasons. Like again, these
guys are different guys, and what happens is it's going
to speak for the whole league. I think they got
a chance to be really successful in the playoffs, maybe
win the whole thing. But we have no idea of
(46:49):
Kyrie is gonna show up for every game in the playoffs.
We just don't. This is Katie talking about his new team.
I love what we're building. I think the culture in
the spirit around the game is something that we try
to cultivate from day one, and everybody brings that that
part to it, you know, and everybody's valuable. You know.
We're just trying to create something pretty cool for people
(47:10):
to watch. For us, if for players that come playing.
I think it's I think it's fun. I think it's
fun to play. Fun to watch how it plays out
in the playoffs is the most interesting, right Like when
you when you say to people that the end all
be all goal isn't always to win, like that speaks
(47:31):
to guys that aren't invested in the little things that
don't that are an artistics, Like defense isn't part of
the art of basketball. It should be taking a charge,
boxing out like these are things that I you geek
out about, Like are you willing to do those little
things it takes to win? That, frankly, is what the
(47:51):
Lakers won last year. The Lakers. It wasn't it was
an art. It wasn't. It wasn't particularly pretty at times,
but it worked and they got rings for it. And
their rings are the exact same rings, which is with
a different team name as the one that the Warriors had.
So I'll be interested to see how it plays out.
But that's a Kyrie k d thing. They clearly they've
(48:14):
gotten together and he's but he's drinking the kool aid,
of which is basketball is about me just pushing to
get may be better at my craft than anybody else. Yeah,
I always thought it was about can my team beat
your team. Be sure to catch the live edition of
The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter Noon
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the i Heart Radio
(48:37):
a app
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gotlip
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
from three to six pm Eastern Time, that's twelve to
three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for the Doug Gotlip Show at Fox Sports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the I Heart
Radio app by searching fs R. This is the best
(00:22):
of the Doug got Leave Show on Fox Sports Radio.
What happened to the Eagles? Right? We've talked about it
since the day they won the Super Bowl, that this
whole idea, they're just gonna run it back and we're
gonna have more fun than anybody else, and not a
great plan. And look, you can, you can poke fun
(00:43):
all you want at the Patriots and their lack of
having fun. Hey, but the Patriots for twenty years, twenty
years were remarkably competitive, and even last year when they're
superstar quarterback chose to play somewhere else, they had eight
opt outs on defense. Even with that pictures was seven games,
(01:07):
was still very competitive with teams that more talent than
they did. So, so what's the difference between the Patriots
and the Eagles organization? I think we have some idea um.
One source told the Athletic in regards to Doug Peterson
coaching with the Eagles, the fact that Doug had the
success he did with all the bleak going on in
(01:30):
the building. Sometimes I look at our Super Bowl rings
and I'm like, holy cow, I don't know how he
did it. So st Peterson was beaten down by the
constant second guessing quote. They treated him like a baby.
Jeffrey Laurie put his UM on the scale when the
team was prepared to make another selection in the draft
last year, each of the eagles first three selections UM
(01:52):
TCU receiver Jalen reagor who, of course you know, justin
Jefferson was selected after UM Jalen Hurts and Davian Taylor
mystified some scouts and coaches watching from home just like
everybody else. Okay, So Jeffrey Lori Parsley screwed this thing
up making some calls. Howie roseland Mosman partially screwed this
(02:16):
thing up, making some calls. There's a dysfunctional relationship between
the the analytics department, or one guy in analytics who
just happened to have a close relationship with the son
of the owner and with the coaching staff. All that
leads to a powder keg, which finally exploded this year. Right,
(02:36):
that's what happened. It's a powder keg. It finally exploded.
There's an expression in basketball and he goes like this,
you dot, you can't play with one eye on the bench.
And look, I'm guilty of it sometimes too, when I'm
I coach kids this weekend and you're coaching them and
they're messing up, and you can't like I've seen to
(02:57):
my voice is not perfect, and you keep and can
you tell him every time? Likely? But what you can
do is you can't give him one or two things
to focus on doing, like, hey, I really need you
to box out every time on the court, and then
like the second time, you're like, hey, if you don't
box out, then I'm gonna have to take out. And
then finally you take him out, and then it becomes
(03:17):
kind of revolving door. I put him back in. Okay,
you don't box down. I gotta take you back because
if you just allow the same thing to happen over
and over and over and over again, you're you're part
of the problem. I'm part of the problem. So if
you're part of if you're you're part of solution, you're
part of solution, you're part of the problem. That's totally different, bro,
(03:41):
totally different. Um. On the other hand, you cannot be
so quick with your hook. You cannot. I just can't
play a guy who if he's not perfect, you take
him out because what happens is that guy he's never
(04:02):
going to play with supreme self confidence. And if you
don't play with the self confidence, like, what's the point, right? So,
so the expression is um uh. The the expression is
I can't play with one eye on the bench. I
have to have my coaches trust at least to play
(04:23):
my game. And if I screw up, I know I
might come out. But I can't play thinking I'm gonna
come out at the first mistake. That is, he can't
play with one eye on the bench. Does every understand that.
I mean, you make a play like you'll watch kids
play sometimes and they make a mistake or they make
a play and they always look at their coach or
they always look at their parents play one on invention.
(04:44):
I can't believe that way. Um, Well, in this case,
you can't coach with one eye on the owner's box.
You can't. It's an impossible situation. Now they hired Sirianni,
who's an unknown. He's a up it, you know, he's
a yes man. Now does that mean that's not a
(05:06):
job that ultimately you can't succeed at? Of course you can't.
Like only thirty two jobs, and if that's the one
that's offered to you, if the first couple of years,
you gotta eat a little dirt, you gotta do what
they say, you gotta find a way to get in again.
It's not an impossible job, but it's really unlikely that
you're gonna have sustained long term success. The reason it
(05:29):
makes sense for Serrianni is like, look, one is only
thirty two jobs to to get another job. You're much
better off having been a head coach. It's like, all right,
it's not the best situation. It's not a huge likelihood
of you winning. And this is really an ugly tale
of an owner overstepping his bounds. Like all of that
(05:50):
stuff I get, but and and the best way to
get another head coaching job and say, hey, I've been
a head coach before. But the chances you read this
and it paints the picture of an owner who's not
a football guy but wants to make football decisions. Um
(06:12):
a team president and Howie Roseman who not a football
guy per se, but wants to make all the football
decisions and just an over zealous front office, if you will,
in regards to how much they're involved in everything and anything,
which means they want credit when you lose and wanted
(06:33):
to flesh credit when you excuse me, They want credit
when you win, and they want to fleg credit when
you lose. Is it if if if you lose, you're
getting fired. If you win, they want to get they
want to get credit. That's the end these There are
jobs like that on life. The likelihood of success is
(06:57):
not great. Does that mean you don't take it? Probably
do if you. But now it explains a whole lot
why Doug Peterson got the job to begin with, why
some of their decisions have been so bizarre, why it
fell apart, and why it was hard to find any
sort of big name that would take the job this
(07:18):
year and they couldn't find one. I mean, Carson Wentz
not playing well. Isn't the reason that they're not consistently
as successful as they should be. Carson Wentz not playing
well kind of that allowed everybody to go under the
(07:39):
hood and figure out exactly what's wrong with this organization.
And maybe maybe it being exposed publicly helps or maybe
the fingerpoint will only consider only continue. My guests would
be somebody will get fired today, or somebody will get
blamed today for lying or saying something to the media
about these decisions, which ownership and the front office wants
(08:02):
nothing to do with. Howie Roseman has made himself essential, Laurie,
this is a survivor, one source told Roseman. This is
someone who understands how to stay close to the most
important point person in the building. The whole thing is fascinating,
you know, the more the more that I live. Do
(08:23):
you remember this TV show Survivor? Do you guys ever
watch the show Survivor. Here's what's interesting about it. Survivor
is a reality TV show, and I stopped kind of
watching it after really the first or second season because
it never didn't have anything anymore to do with surviving,
(08:44):
right like Naked and Afraid is much more about surviving
than anything. Survivor is more about social jiu jitsu and
just surviving the the tribe, if you will, the more
I live. The more I learn, the more I read,
the more I understand the TV shows Survivor is basically
(09:05):
real life one on one. Be sure to catch the
live edition of The Doug gott Leaps Show weekdays at
three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio a app. Let me welcome
in the one and the one and only Chris Sims,
who last week we really needed him. We missed can
we we missed each other on that that bumped me
(09:26):
out now. Also, everybody wants Chris so he's been cool
enough to join us, Okay, Chris So, look um, everybody
thinks that because you were roommates with Kyle that when
you speak, you're like you can barely see the strings
moving or your Kyle's lips moving when you're when the
(09:48):
words coming out of your mouth, you know, whatever analogy
you want to. Uh So, in regards to what Kyle
is gonna do at three, have you guys talked about it? No,
not a not what they're doing at three? No, not
a at all. Um, We've had no discussions. We've discussed,
you know, the draft early on in the process, but
he wasn't even really kind of all the way in it.
(10:10):
Yet at that point it was at a point where
it was really he was still dealing with free agency.
I was already diving into the draft and we had
some casual conversations. That's about all we talked about it
so far. Okay, So when you look at this draft class, um,
there are people who go like, like, why would you
do mac Jones at three? Like, he's got some limitations athletically,
(10:33):
And by the way, if if they're true to their
word in terms of what their what their plan is,
you know, then then if you're gonna sit a guy
and have him learned behind Garoppolo, wouldn't you want to
have a guy who needs to be developed more than
than mac Jones. When you look at this class, who
do you think fits Kyle the best? Well, listen, I
(10:55):
think you can make a case for all of them.
There's no doubt about that. I mean, listen, as a fan,
would I be excited to be see justin Fields or
Tray Lance and the Kyle Shanahan offense. There's no doubt
about it. There's gonna be some really cool things that
you can you know, you can do with those type
of quarterbacks Athletically, their ability to run. Yeah, is their
(11:15):
arms stronger, you know, just pure power than Mac Jones certainly,
so from that aspect, I am excited about that, But
I do also think like what people are missing about that?
You know? First off, the one thing I'm realizing during
draft time, potential only means running. Apparently it's the only
thing You're not allowed to grow potential anywhere else. So
this guy has potential, which means he can run. But
(11:37):
what Mac Jones has no potential because he can run?
That that makes no sense. Again, the game is still
about people dicing people up with within the pocket, you know,
that's the big thing. So am I would I be
excited to see the lance and field thing. Sure, I
would love to see that. That would be really cool,
you know, but just as in I would love to
(11:58):
see that, and that be cool, And yet they couldn't
do some of that stuff With Mac Jones, I can
easily flip that around and go there's a lot of
play action and drop back passing and pro concepts and
working of the pockets that those guys can do nearly
as good as Mac Jones at this point of their career. Now,
Matt Jones, I know, is never going to get as
(12:19):
fast as like those two. Those guys can improve on
their their quarterback play within the pocket, decision making, drowing
and all of that. But the big thing is with
mac Jones is he's, you know, a great decision maker.
He's got a real good arm. You know, his ability
to like go through reads is as good as I've
ever seen, really other than Joe Burrow coming out in
(12:41):
the draft last year. You know. Then you know, the
ability to place the ball exactly where you want it's
up there as good as I've seen since I've been
on this side of the business too. So I think,
you know, ultimately and knowing my friend, he's liked those
kind of quarterbacks. And that's where I come off always
going to the Mac Jones thing, Doug, because especially you
(13:02):
know Matt Ryan. He had two years with Matt Ryan,
one of which was really special and they were really
close to winning a super Bowl. You know, in my
heart of hearts, I think he looks at this Mac
Jones guy and thinks, hey, it's Matt Ryan two point oh,
and if you give me more than two cracks at
it with this guy, I'm gonna win a super Bowl.
And that's why I've been saying Mac Jones from the
(13:23):
get go. That's that's who I think it ultimately will be.
Doug ot Leaves Show, you're on Fox Sport Trader. That's
the voice of Chris Sam's former starting quarterback in the
Nash Football League. Of course, work with the New England Patriots,
and now you can see him on Football Night in
America on NBC covering Nash Football League. You can listen
to on Pro Football Talk as well. Um, well, let
me get to the other two. Okay, so that's how
(13:46):
you view Mac. Now you got TREYE. Lance, you got
Justin Fields. I there's still a distinct possibility somebody trades
up with at Land or trades up you know, maybe
Washington moves up to to get a quarterback. Of those two,
who do you like the best? Well, it's really it's
tough for me out of those two, Okay, you know,
(14:07):
I think this is I like the consistency in which
Tray Lance throws the football better than I do with
Justin Fields. I do now not to say train Lance
is perfect either, you know, And then I guess I
would say I'd like the size and athleticism a little
bit more than on Fields and Lands, and ultimately I
(14:27):
came down like you know, the splitting hairs with those guys,
and I made justin Fields or moved him in front
of Tray Lance just because he's played more football, you
know to me, you know with with Lands, hey, there's
a lot I like definitely, you know, quality of competition,
you know, would I always find funny duck people bring
that up with Zack Wilson, but for some reason with
(14:48):
Trey Lance is not the top of a conversation. I
don't get that at all. So one guy gets used
against the other one it's even more prevalent, but they
we don't even talk about it. I don't understand that
about the draft drives me nuts. I'm sorry, I don't
need to, like, like it's kind of fascinating, right, yeah,
your your your your your your dad played where in college? Yes?
(15:10):
Morehead State? Right? But where Steve Young right, like Salon.
I mean you can go through you know, Ben Roethlisberger
in Miami, Ohio. That's not necessarily like you know Ball
or Supreme University there either so but but but either way,
getting back to that topic there, Yes, I gave Fields
(15:32):
the advantage just through playing experience. But like both. To me,
I have concerns about both of them. I really do.
You know. One Field has some mechanical issues throwing the
football that I don't love, and it is a lot
of like first read, wide open throws within that offense.
Trey Lance, you know, I like his throwing. It is
(15:55):
very simple and he hasn't thrown the ball a whole
lot altogether. But don't love his throwing. He only has
a few clubs in the bag for lack of a
better way to say it, where every ball is really
just throw it hard. There's not a lot of touch balls.
He's not a great deep ball thrower. That's all there
is to that let alone. He played on a team
that was more dominant than Alabama was at the Division
(16:18):
one level. They just could run over everybody. Nobody was
good competition for them, and they they got away with
having to drop back to pass with them twelve fourteen
times a game, you know. To me, and that's where
I'm different, I guess than everybody else. None of that
speaks to top five talents for me. With justin Fields
or tray Lands. I look at them as second half
(16:40):
of the first round type quarterbacks, and that to me
will be one of the intriguing parts of the draft
because I do not view them as top ten talents.
Right now as we sit here, there's a there's a
story out about the Eagles. I don't know if you're
ready in the Athletic and it basically says like, look,
Jeffrey Lori's son is a buddy who runs our analytics department.
That between analytics Howie Roseman and the owner Laurie there's
(17:04):
all these chefs in the kitchen, and it was really
hard for Doug Peterson to survive. I've talked about people,
They're like, look, the analytics thing is really really helpful.
There has to be a balance and there has to
be a relationship there between coaching and scouts, and some
places do it well, in some places don't do it well.
You've been you've you've been around this league your whole life.
(17:25):
You've worked on a slave in New England. When you
hear the story about the Eagles, what is your reaction, Well,
I I have heard some of that a little bit,
that there just was a lot of miscommunication as far
as evaluating players and drafts and things like that, you
know over the last few years that yeah, you know,
some of the people in the personnel department are disappointed
(17:47):
in Howie because Howie, you know what, wasn't strict with
staying with the board and how they evaluated people, you know,
throughout the whole process and kind of you know, decided
to do his own thing at the last second of
whatever else. So yeah, that's you know, that's never gonna
work when when one guy just decides to you know,
make his own decisions, Hey, the hell with everybody else. Hey,
(18:09):
this is the process that made us successful. But this
year I'm gonna go against it and just go on
a whim or a gut ceiling. Uh that that's never
a positive. But how He has had so many good
years of doing good things that I would imagine they
get back on track. And to me, they are one
of those teams you sit there at number twelve where
I go, yeah they I know they've talked about no quarterback,
(18:31):
but they're interesting, Doug. I mean, because yeah, they don't
want quarterback, no channel and hurts, but what are they
gonna do with Justin Fields or Trey Lancer on the
board there at twelve. I have a hard time thinking
they're gonna pass them up. I do so they're one
of the again, one of the interesting teams or things
about this draft, the quarterbacks, some of the high talented
players in this draft who have injury histories, you know,
(18:54):
the COVID opt outs and all those things. I think,
really you're gonna add to one of the more we're
fascinating first rounds we've seen in a long time, no question,
Doug outlives show here on Fox Sports Radio. All right,
how do you balance out the quarterbacks with the skill
position guys or some of the other guys in the draft,
like like the Kyle pitts Is of the world, who
I'm not sure where he's actually he's actually an X
(19:16):
men that that's really what it is. That's the explanation
for six six, two forty running a running a four
four right the he has to He's just he's not
like you and me, like he can bend, steal with
his arms or whatever. How do you balance out? Um,
you know, we're like, well, tight end isn't usually a
position to go that high in the draft, but this
guy just jumps off the charts at you. Yeah, well,
(19:37):
you know, I mean, yes, quarterback is always gonna get
top end value, you know, you know, even even if
it's like, hey, let's you know apples for apples. We
bet we but we have a let's say, uh, you know,
an eight plus grade on this quarterback and the eight
plus grade on on Pits. The quarterback is always going
to get the advantage if there's real need for both
positions on that team. You know, I would even say
(19:58):
in a lot of cases, and more than not, even
if the quarterback has an A minus grade and there's
an A plus grade for another position player, that the
quarterback is still gonna get favored in the big scheme
of things and be put in front of that player
despite the grade, because of the importance of the position.
So there is the balancing of that altogether. And Pitts
(20:20):
Pitts is, Yeah, he's one of those guys of you know,
where exactly does he fall in the first round. Yeah,
he's a special talent. There's no doubt about that. You know,
the Banals, the Falcons, I'm sure they're they're got him
towards the top of their list as far as like
teams that could draft him. But I think the quarterback,
just to answer your question, has significant more value because
(20:42):
of the importance of the position. The ball being in
his hands and what he does for the rest of
the offense as compared to an every down position player,
no question, no question about this Doug Olive show here
on Fox Sports Radio. Um, you know Jon Glad, he's
probably gonna sign with the Browns or something like how
worthy of discussion is he? Because he does He's had
(21:04):
some productive seasons. He obviously had crazy amount of talent
knee injury. He's been seeing the guy who's not not
not an every down like indefatigable guy. Um, but he
is a talent and if you add him maybe to
the browns stout defensive line, maybe it opens up things
for everybody else. When when you hear Jadeveon Clowney might
sign with the Browns, what do you think, Well, I
(21:27):
think it's like, I mean, it's a perfect fit if right,
I mean, there's a lot of ifs there. If you know,
pubished off Cleveland. They're running the Seattle scheme on defense.
Joe Woods a defensive coordinator. He just came from the
forty Niners. So they want pass rushers. They want to
rush with the front four and drop seven. That's what
Seattle scheme does, right, So they're looking for their Nick
(21:50):
Bosa Dfard combination, you know, or uh any of the
great one Melbourne Ingram Joey Bosa, same defensive scheme, all
of that. Yeah, so it's that match zone. They want
that other guy. But I mean it all comes down
to Clowney and just what he's asking financially. I mean,
he's an extremely risky signing. You know, as far as
(22:10):
the injury history that you brought up. He's physical as hell.
He's an awesome football player. You'd love to have him
on your football team. But man, I mean he's been
dealing with injuries really for the better part of the
last five or six years now. We've seen him in
the scheme up in Seattle with Pete Carroll, and we
saw that when he was healthy there it was damn special.
(22:32):
But again, even up there two years ago, it was
only a handful of games and he was heard or
battling injury and doing things like that. So I understand Cleveland.
They got the money to spend and get a guy
like that, I would think that he's not going to
be able to demand a huge price tag on the market.
And with even in that, I would think Cleveland's probably
(22:53):
still gonna be maybe looking for a pass rusher somewhere,
you know, second, third, fourth round for the just in
case he does get hurt. Clowney thing, they have one
more guy to come off the edge and apply that pressure.
But the Browns, they're sitting in a pretty spot. They're
a really well orchestrated team. There's not a lot of
needs for that football team altogether, and uh, Clowney certainly
(23:16):
fits what they're trying to do there. When a trailer, Uh,
listen to Chris, Greg catch up with you. Can't wait
to talk more. We get closer and closer to the draft.
Hope you're well and thanks for being our guests. Yeah,
you're the man, Doug. I'll talk to you. Take care
of that voice. Man. Be sure to catch the live
edition of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three
p m. Easter noon Pacific. Hey, it's me Rob Parker.
(23:36):
Check out my weekly MLB podcast, Inside the Parker for
twenty two minutes of pipe and hot baseball talk, featuring
the biggest names of newsmakers in the sport. Whether you
believe in analytics or the eye test, We've got all
the bases covered. New episodes drops every Thursday. So do
yourself a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with
(23:58):
Rob Parker or the I Heart Radio app or wherever
you get your podcast show. Uh Kevity had joins this
from The Athletic, a great piece that I read. I
was doing the Dan Patricks Show and all of a
sudden popped up and I start reading, going like, man,
can we get you on now? Like no, We're gonna
wait later. Um, okay, So obviously you cover the philadelph
(24:22):
Eagles for the Athletic, and uh, Doug Peterson didn't want
to be quoted, didn't want to have comment on on
the article itself. But and you tell me if I'm wrong.
You paint the picture of an owner who is really
involved in the everyday decision making, and he's created this
analytics department that's led by a friend of his son
(24:45):
who eventually will take over, we think, for the owner.
And there's kind of in fighting in a power struggle
between uh, the analytics department and the scouting department and
the coaching staff. And then Howie Roseman is really close
to the owner, and UH that feels like the front
office and the coaching staff struggled at least again based
(25:05):
upon your sources to be able to make their own
decisions without the owner, and Howie Roseman interjecting, is that
is that fair? Yeah? I don't even know where to
begin with this, honestly, I guess said that. I didn't
know what my first question was. I just want to
for people who haven't read the article, I just want
to paint a picture of what you painted. Yeah. No,
I think what you said was fair, And I guess
(25:27):
the big picture of view is that, yes, you know,
this was a team that won the Super Bowl and
in three years, uh, they fired their head coach, they
trade their quarterback, they have a four win season, and
who's left standing and who's left standing as the owner
Jeffrey Lury and the GM Howie Roseman, who is now
the GM under his fourth head coach, which is sort
(25:47):
of unprecedented, uh in NFL history. So yeah, I think
you painted that fairly. You know. It's it's interesting because
obviously he was swept aside when Chip Kelly came in
and some of his guys were traded it off and whatever,
and the chip Kelly thing. They won twenty games the
first two years, and then the bottom bottom fell out
and then Howie Rosemand kind of regained and reassumed power.
(26:10):
What about Peterson in terms of when he got the job,
because when you start at the beginning of the piece,
it's Hey, the year they won the Super Bowl, there
were some meetings with with jeff Schwartz at this at
this uh, Jim Schwartz excuse me, at the start of
the season with the owner, and Peterson wasn't involved. And
there are many people that thought he could replace Doug Peterson. Well,
(26:32):
they just kept winning. What about Peterson when he got
the job, did he think he would have any more
control than he did? Right, So, Doug Peterson gets the
job in two thousand sixteen, he was not really a
hot candidate. And the thought then was kind of the
thought now, which is that this isn't an owner in
Jeffrey Lury, who wants to be, you know, pretty hands
on and he's got the right to do that. He
owns the team, and a general manager in Howie Rosman,
(26:55):
who has a lot of control. You know, this isn't
a situation like you see with some teams around the
league where the head coach has control of the fifty
three man roster and other key decisions. This is a
situation where the general manager, Howie Roseman, is going to
be making those decisions. So I think they wanted a
head coach who was not going to be involved in
personnel and who would kind of fit with the philosophy
(27:17):
they had for the organization. So that's two thousand sixteen.
They have an okay year, Uh, they're around five. I
think they had seven wins that year. They weren't great.
They had serious questions about Doug Peterson going into two
thousand seventeen, and so that was one of the anecdotes
we uncovered was that, you know, prior to the first
game of the season, Jeffrey Lurry has this long meeting
with defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz, who has been a head
(27:39):
coach in the NFL before. I mean three four or
five hours. Somebody described it as to me, Now, you know,
owners can have meetings with coaches whenever they want. However,
there was a feeling in the building by multiple people
we talked to at that time that the owner, Jeffrey Lury,
was vetting internal candidates to replace Doug Peterson should the
Eagles get off to a start. Now fast forward, what
(28:01):
happened the Eagles go on a tear, Carson Wiskin's injured,
Nick Folk comes in, They win the Super Bowl that year,
and so that changes, um, you know, really the entire
narrative around Doug Peterson. But it's kind of a look
back that you know, that was not their expectations going
into that season, to the point where some in the
building thought that they were getting ready to move on
from Peterson. Uh, Doug. At Leap Show here on Fox
(28:24):
Sports Radio, we're discussing Shioa Capati, who rights for the Athletic.
He wrote a piece I you know, if you subscribe,
you know socriety Athletic is not very expensive. Unbelievable writing
and insight into all your favorite sports teams. And he
wrote a piece on the Eagles, who he covers and
kind of what happened to the downfall that the dysfunction
within a franchise at won a Super Bowl and then
they say, hey, we're gonna have more fun than the Patriots.
(28:46):
All that fun left left left, the coach fired and
the quarterback being being traded to the old offensive old
offensive coordinator who is now a successful head coach with
the Colts. Um who was most responsible for orson Wentz's
contract for his contract, He's got to look at the
the owner in the GM, I mean, Jeffrey Lourie and
(29:07):
Howie Roseman. To be fair, Uh, it was not. You know,
at the time when I wrote about it, I wasn't
saying this is a terrible move. I mean a lot
of times, if you have a quarterback who's on a
rookie contract, who you are confident in, it is smart
to get that big contract out of the way early
because you're confident in him. The price is only going
to go up. And so when they made that move,
(29:29):
you know, they thought maybe the floor for Carson Wentz
is he's gonna be like that, you know, the twelve
fest quarterback in the NFL. Well, you can live with
that because they thought he had a high feeling. They
did not anticipate that the floor for Carson Wentz was
going to be among the worst starting quarterbacks in the NFL,
which was the case last year. But I do think
it's fair for that to look at the decision at
(29:49):
the time it was made. You know, a team like
the Dallas Cowboys, right, they waited on Dak Prescott, and
they waited and they waited and all of a sudden,
they're paying a lot more this offseason than they would
have last offseason. So I don't think that was sort
of their biggest failure. You know, I think teams make
mistakes and you've got to make decisions. But if that's
all it was, I don't think it would be a
huge deal. I think their biggest failures are sort of
(30:10):
the relationships in the building, the lack of collaboration you
alluded to, where it's analytics having friction with the coaching staff,
coaching staff having friction with the front office, and really
the only people who have full transparency of what's going
on in all those departments and who have all that
information is the g M. Howie Roseman and the owner
Jeffrey Lury. So you know, there are decisions that are made,
(30:32):
like the one to draft Jail and Hurts last year,
that leaves people in the building, Uh, kind of scratching
their heads going, wait a minute, you know, I did
not think this was part of the plan. So I
think that's the key with them going forward. Can they
build that sort of different type of culture where everyone
feels like they're pulling in the same direction. Um, the
analytics department is it one guy, Is it a whole department,
(30:53):
It's it's four people. It's four people. But the head
of that his name is Ala Callabi. He's got a
vice president title. He's been with the organization for ten years.
And uh, you know, there's a feeling in the building
by some that this guy has Jeffrey Lury and Howary
Roseman's ear and so that he has kind of this
oversized influence. So other people in the building they see
(31:14):
certain decisions that are made and they say, hey, we
know why that was made because the analytics staff gave
Lurry and Rosman that information. Now again, I come back
to if your GM is a CEO type GM and
his job is to tie every department together, then he's
got to manage that relationship. I mean, Doug, this is
not a new dynamic right in professional sports, the analytics
(31:35):
staff not getting along with the coaching staff or traditional scouts.
I mean, this happens everywhere. However, if you have buy
in from your owner, which they do in Jeffrey Lurry,
that analytics is going to be a significant part of
what we're gonna do, We're gonna be at the forefront
of this, Well, then you need to manage those relationships
so that coaches, scouts, personnel people, they don't feel second guests.
(31:55):
They feel like, hey, the analytics are actually here to
help us. We're all working together, and that has not
been the key. Yeah. No, I mean listen, Buffalo has
a tremendous analysts department, and those guys seem to be
getting along and doing it well. I think the question
is is it because like you said, it's not what
they've done, it's how they've handled what they've done. Right.
Did you hire a guy who's really qualified and happens
(32:16):
to be the buddy of the owner's son or is
he just really really qualified, you know? And but or
is he just just a buddy and that's why he
got the job? And I think that breeds the breeds
the mistrust. Um, what about the draft the past couple
of years. You point out the Jalen reagor pick I
mean per for example, Justin Jefferson goes right behind him.
(32:36):
Was was that? Howie? Was that? LORI? How do you?
How do you when you have need a wide receiver,
you take a wide receiver and you take the wrong one.
Whose fault was it? Yeah? That was a situation where
the scouts and the personnel staff. To my understanding one
at Justin Jefferson. They felt like, this guy is the
superior player. Look at how we stacked the board. Uh,
(32:58):
he is absolutely ahead of Jail and Rigor on the board.
Now this goes back to what I just said. Howie
Roseman is the only one who has input from every department.
So he comes back and says, well, you know, some
of the coaches think that Jefferson is more of a
slot receiver than an outside receiver. We need an outside
receiver with some speed, and so he's putting the entire
puzzle together. Now. You know, I would say that the
(33:19):
GM needs to get those two sides in a room
talk it out. You know. Scouts, hey, can Justin Jefferson
play on the outside for us? They say, yes, here's why,
and then maybe that would lead to a better process.
But I think it is you know, the lack of transparency.
And again they they the Ragar pick was basically, uh,
they felt like the coaching staff thought Ragor would be
a better fit on the outside and they thought Jefferson
(33:42):
was more of a slot receiver. And Howie Roseman, you know,
takes that input and he makes the decisions a draft,
jail and rager. Okay, so what now, well, what is
the state of them? You painted a great picture for
the dysfunction. When Peterson's there, they bring in a Nick Sirianni,
who it feels like a yes man, right, feels you
can barely see how he's lips moving when Nick Sirianni speaks.
(34:06):
Is that is that a real way of looking at
it or is that unfair and considering he'll be giving
a chance to actually coach. Well, that's there's no doubt
that that's the feeling by you know, some people in
the building that yes, they found another guy who they
can kind of say, all right, here's how we're gonna
do things. We're going to influence you this way. We're
gonna help you pick your coaching staff. We're gonna addictate
(34:28):
you know, Hey, we want to be a pass first offense,
all these things. Now, having said that that was the
case with Doug Peterson in two thousand and sixteen, it
was a very similar situation and they ended up winning
the Super Bowl and getting to the playoffs three times.
So I don't want to paint it like, hey, that
was a complete disaster, and that complete failure. And this
is doomed as well. You know, Nick Sirianni proves that
(34:50):
he's a very good head coach, he will be given
that opportunity. But at the same time, you know, another
guy they were looking at was Josh McDaniels, and that
would have been a very different higher because the people
I talked said, all right, that was not this setup
was not gonna fly with a guy like Josh McDaniels.
You know, he was not just gonna say, Okay, you know,
pick whoever you want. Yeah, sure, I'll have these meetings
with you guys. I'll explain my every move. And so
(35:12):
this is a very different higher. This is more in
the Doug Peterson mold. So Sirianni will be given the opportunity.
He deserves the opportunity, you know, in the situation that
he's in. But certainly it's fear to characterize the feeling
by some in the building that they're just kind of
finding another guy who they feel like they can influence
and who they feel like we'll fit with what they
want to do. Um Jalen Hurts, I know there's like
(35:34):
an infatuation with him because he was a part a
couple of winning teams in college, and he came in
and they beat the Saints, but the production got worse
every time he was out there, and there are some
limitations to him, and he wasn't viewed as a second
round guy. Um how I mean he's gonna be the
guy I guess, But again, how he said that before
when he resigned Sam Bradford and they went and drafted Wins.
(35:57):
What is your sense of their their their buying Tod
Jale and Hurts short and long term? Yeah, you know,
I think them trading back from number six to number
twelve probably tells you that they didn't feel like they
were positioned to draft one of the quarterbacks. Whether that
means meant that they thought all those quarterbacks would be
gone this year, whether they didn't scalp them and think
they were top level prospects, that I don't know. But
(36:20):
obviously they did not think they were going to be
drafting your quarterback there, so they trade back. I do think,
barring something unforeseen, that jale and Hurts will be the
starter this season and they'll just kind of buy a year.
You know, they'll see r if he plays well and
it's really good and surprises us that's a great outcome,
but by no means are they tied to him long term.
You know, they've picked up an additional first round pick
(36:42):
by moving from six to twelve, and they also could
get another another first round pick in the Carson Wentz
trade if he plays like his snap, So they could
be going into two with three first round picks, and
that puts you in position to either move up to
draft a quarterback or if one of these veterans, like
we said with Matthew Stafford, if one of those guys
becomes available, and they will have the draft capital to
(37:05):
make that move. So I think they wanted different options
really going into next season, and that's why they made
that move. So I think hurts. You know, I think
he'll get a shot this year. I don't think anything
is promised to him beyond that. Sure, great stuff, and
I really like the piece. I love your insight and
appreciate having you on. Look forward to talking more in
the future. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
(37:25):
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart
Radio app search f s R to listen live. I
saw this over the weekend and I thought it was
really interesting, and it's it's one of those where we
can um where we can completely and totally stop, take
(37:49):
a breath, think about things and go, huh, maybe he's
making an interesting point. What it training the vehicle at
a railway crossing? The results are often deadly because the
crossings the signals are going. Don't be tempted to try
and stick across the tracks. And if you don't see
your train, stop trains can brought to you by Nitza.
(38:12):
I want you to listen to what Kevin says to
Rachel Nichols, and then I wanted I'm going to discuss
it with you and tell you what I hear. This
is k D. I wasn't expecting to be a happy
human being from a title. I was just expecting, like
you know, the ending of a movie. Once you work
so hard and everybody tells you like, yo, this is
what you need to be working for. Is this gold
ball and these rings? And I'm just like, all right, cool,
(38:34):
let me lock in a that. And I locked down
and wanting to achieve that, but I also realized a
lot of stuff that factors in it that's out of
my control. And once I won the championship. I realized that, Like, yo,
my view on this game is really about development. How
good can I be? It's not about let's go get
this championship. And I appreciate that stuff and I want
to win and experience that stuff, but it's not the
(38:55):
end all be all while I play the game. Huh um,
Like I think guys are looking at as a different
dip deeper meeting. I just look here, here's my take
on Kevin Durant. I think people told him. I don't
think I know people told him, Hey, in order to
(39:16):
be considered one of the all time grades, you need
to win a championship. She need to win too. If
you do that, everybody will respect your standing is one
of the all time grades. And like his point was
a really good one, like once you win, when you're like,
there's a lot of things that going to win a championship.
I mean, Toronto won a championship. Kauai is a champion
(39:39):
with the Spurs, but also one with the Raptors. But dude,
they weren't winning the less Golden State collapse and got hurt. Like,
does that make Kyle Lowry at all time grade? Like? No?
Fred Vamiley an all time great, good players. But like,
let's not kid ourselves. They don't win that championship except
for the fact that Lebron left the East and the
(39:59):
way end up providing the Warriors, and that year with
the Warriors, everybody got hurt, right, That's that's that's really
literally what happened. Um, I think he I don't again.
I know he was told, if you win, everybody will
respect you and you'll be seen as the best player
in the game. He won, He outplayed Lebron. If pop
were like, yeah, but you had to join a team.
(40:23):
So now he's taken the the hell with it. I'm
just gonna be my what what? What's the what do
the psychologists tell you the best version of yourself? Yeah,
I'm just gonna be the best version of myself and
being the best version of myself. I'm gonna sit here
(40:43):
and go, Yo, here's what I am. I'm just a
great player. I'm an artist. You're gonna appreciate me. Whoever
just appreciates my art appreciates you know. It's like, Um,
I have a I have a dear friend. His name
is Desert Mason. Do you guys remember the name Desertation?
Of course you do played in the NBA for a
decade um with the Bucks, with SuperSonics, with the Oklahoma
(41:04):
City Thunder remember that. Okay, I want to slam dunk
contest in two thousand one. So he's my college teammate.
He's a very very talented abstract artist. Now, if I
look at Desmond's paintings and it's named like War of
the North, like it could be anything like, okay, and
I just see lots of colors. It's very pretty. But Mace,
(41:25):
how much is that? How much was that commissioned for you? Like?
For that? Yeah, let me tell you my I was like,
I don't really care how you did it, Like I
love you. I would not pay fifty for that beauty
in the eyes of the holder. So artists, artists take
on like it like look and for everybody. I'm not
appreciated by everybody, don't care. I just want to be
(41:46):
the best artist I can so that artists appreciate the art.
That's where k D is. I think Kad wants to
put himself so far beyond the fans because he understands
that fans. I don't think he respects their knowledge of
the game. I think you know and I would guess
that's what he's saying. But I also think that this
is a he won championships and he does not feel
(42:08):
fulfilled by them. You know, He's like, look, I won
the championships. I did those things you said. If I
you know, I've done everything you have said I had
to do. You gotta win championships. I win championships. Now
what you gotta win? An pas? What m VP? You
gotta win? Score? Does I gotta win? Scorey teals? You
gotta make a franchise better, everybody around you better. I
did that Like Oklahoma City got got to the finals,
(42:28):
got to Western Conference. I was like, that wasn't a
great roster. I'll kid yourself. When they went to the
Western Conference finals, were up three games to one. So
I don't know, I don't have any idea um exactly
(42:49):
what he wants from basketball, but I think that Kevin Durant,
at some point you do throw your hands up and
go like that didn't fulfill me. Let me try something else.
That didn't fulfill me, Let me try something else. And
it's probably where the friendship and partnership came with with
Kyrie Irving. Kyrie's won a championship and remember after he
(43:10):
won the championship when he's with the Cleveland Cavaliers. The
story of the breakdown their relationship with him and Lebron
James is they won the championship, they came from behind
to beat the Warriors, they got home, and then Cabrie
found out that Lebron said, Hey, that's great, let's go
get Chris Paul instead of Kyrie Irving. Alright, So he's like, man,
that's that's not good enough for you. And so you
want like this, this meaning that's greater than a champion,
(43:33):
greater than whatever fans adulation. You become like an artist
and you want your art appreciated by other artists, and
you don't really care about the fans because you have
all the money, you have everything. Else which you really
want is how great you are, to be appreciated by
the people that understand what greatness is about. I think
that's what those guys are, and I just I get it.
(43:55):
I understand it. I respect it on some level, but
it's not what we play sports like. We don't play
sports for the artistic pleasure of man. Kevin Durant is
the best one on one score the game has ever happened.
I've told you I I think he's Kareem abdul Jabbar
two point oh. He has an he has an unstoppable
(44:17):
um move right like his has. He pull up is
basically on side, seven feet tall. He shoots the ball
so high it's you gotta do your work before he
gets the ball because once he gets it up, if
he has it's it's more about him than it's about you.
If he makes it makes himsim as he's known you
can do. He's also a little bit uncomfortable in his
(44:38):
own skin. He's very bright, but sometimes thinks he's smarter
than everybody in him like this is Kareim abdul Jabar.
I think like a revered college player. And I know
Durant didn't have the success in college that Kareem had,
but he was revered. Like we had Danny Manning on
this show and he said that he believes Kevin Durant
is the baddest too to ever play in Fogallan Field House.
Remember World Chamberlain and Danny Manning played there. So revered
(45:03):
college player, a little uncomfortable his own skin, smart but
sometimes thinks he's smarter than everybody else. Unstoppable weapon and
the scoring machine and one who may be appreciated more
when he's done playing than when he actually is playing.
Like all of those things are Kareem and Kevin Durant,
like the go hand in hand, and as great as
(45:24):
Kaream was six time m v P, six time finals, MVP,
six times Champion's great, nobody ever mentions Kareem as the
greatest player of all time ever, like literally, and it's like, well,
if you want to go older big guy, you gotta
go Bill Russell or dominant, you gotta go World Chamberlain
or modern day you go Tim Duncan, right, and people
just skip over Kareem abdul Jabar. They go Magic Johnson.
(45:46):
Magic never won a championship without Kareem. Doesn't mean Magic
wasn't great, but we skip over Kareem. That's what I
feel like we're gonna do with Kevin Durant, And that's
what Kevin Durant feels like it's coming. And that's what
I think some of this stuff comes from. Do I
think gets a bit of nonsense. Of course they do right,
Like every game you're ever in, you want to win,
(46:06):
You play to win at least that's and you should
feel bad when you lose, and you should feel extra
bad when you lose a playoff series when you have
the type of talent that he'll have around him. Uh
but but Kevin Durant saying like that's not what he
plays for, Like, I just he's a different catman. He
(46:27):
and Kyrie are Kyrie. And before awful thing that happened
in Minnesota over the weekend, before that, Kyrie was taking
tonight off, you know, for personal reasons. Like again, these
guys are different guys, and what happens is it's going
to speak for the whole league. I think they got
a chance to be really successful in the playoffs, maybe
win the whole thing. But we have no idea of
(46:49):
Kyrie is gonna show up for every game in the playoffs.
We just don't. This is Katie talking about his new team.
I love what we're building. I think the culture in
the spirit around the game is something that we try
to cultivate from day one, and everybody brings that that
part to it, you know, and everybody's valuable. You know.
We're just trying to create something pretty cool for people
(47:10):
to watch. For us, if for players that come playing.
I think it's I think it's fun. I think it's
fun to play. Fun to watch how it plays out
in the playoffs is the most interesting, right Like when
you when you say to people that the end all
be all goal isn't always to win, like that speaks
(47:31):
to guys that aren't invested in the little things that
don't that are an artistics, Like defense isn't part of
the art of basketball. It should be taking a charge,
boxing out like these are things that I you geek
out about, Like are you willing to do those little
things it takes to win? That, frankly, is what the
(47:51):
Lakers won last year. The Lakers. It wasn't it was
an art. It wasn't. It wasn't particularly pretty at times,
but it worked and they got rings for it. And
their rings are the exact same rings, which is with
a different team name as the one that the Warriors had.
So I'll be interested to see how it plays out.
But that's a Kyrie k d thing. They clearly they've
(48:14):
gotten together and he's but he's drinking the kool aid,
of which is basketball is about me just pushing to
get may be better at my craft than anybody else. Yeah,
I always thought it was about can my team beat
your team. Be sure to catch the live edition of
The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter Noon
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the i Heart Radio
(48:37):
a app
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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