Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
D you.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Do you know somebody that you would say is a
compulsive liar?
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Who, I'm not gonna say no, no, no, like you're not
saying me no, oh thank you, no, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Didn't it sound that way.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
No, it's just like I would instantly say no. But
this she took a breath there to think about it,
and it's like, oh, if she clearly had one in mind.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Are you friendly with them?
Speaker 5 (00:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Like do you? But and so you just every time
they talk, you just got dad. This is clearly a lot. Yeah,
do you really?
Speaker 6 (00:32):
Yeah, it's it's it's difficult to believe everything this person says.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
How about anything the person says, I mean no, no,
I'm being I'm being serious.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm being serious.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Why is Kristen laughing so much?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Is it Kristin?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
No?
Speaker 4 (00:44):
No, And you're saying this person is compulsive not pathological.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
What's the difference.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
The difference isn't pathological, more the motivation. It's it's about manipulation.
Compulsive as you just can't help yourself. You're pathological. Oh
I want compulsive compulsive? No, sorry, I'm like you kids
with a pathological liar?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Like, what are they? What are they? What's the what
are they moving?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I've said too much?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Do I know them?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
No, damn it.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I can't think of like a pathological lie. But it's
you said, it's to.
Speaker 6 (01:16):
Be impulsive means you can't help yourself, right, yes you can.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
No, there are people and I don't know what you read,
but it's it's so interesting when I've come across articles
about compulsive liars. They they they literally in conversation, they
just lie, like.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
They're lying about stupid stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Their nature is lying.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
That's what I was reading about, is these groups of
people where there's no and it could be over the
dumbest thing. And I don't mean like white lies like
oh to protect somebody, yeah, like you don't want to
hurt their feelings where it's like no, you know what,
that sweater looks nice, like I'm talking about like legit.
And they even said so I was reading about these people, right,
(01:59):
these compulsive life and it's everything from a lot of
them don't have any friends because people just get tired
of it and they're.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Like I am not going to be around, don't bargo anymore.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
But you can believe right where and it pisses people
and you just discount everything they say like, I don't
believe anything the person says, well, and.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Then you feel stupid, they were saying. So they were like,
I don't have any like irl friends. They said, most
compulsive liars their friends are on the internet, or it
gets to the point where their friends are.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
On the internet because everyone lies on the internet.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
No, well maybe, but no, it's just more like they're
not you're not interacting with them face to face, and like,
you haven't you haven't spent years with it. You may
be friends with them online for years, but you can
kind of create a whole different persona online. But I
get that because because the friends they were saying, the
(02:51):
friends are like at some point the friends start feeling
stupid of.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Like why do I why do I just put up
with this?
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Yeah, Diane, right, You almost can justify a pathological liar
more because you understand the reason. The reason is maybe
manipulating you, but you're like, oh, this person's thought this out.
There is benefit to them to lie about this. Compulsive
(03:17):
is probably very frustrating, not only for the person who
suffers from it and at the time that they eventually
realize it for sure, but for those around who are like,
I don't know how to help this person they can't
help themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yes, and they said, and this was the part that
I thought was interesting. The compulsive liar. When the lie
comes out of their mouth, they know it, Yeah, they
know it, but they're just so used to lying that.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
They won't even go, like, why not just stop and
go back? You know what?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I misspoke? Like, I don't expect them to come out
and go you've got potectual like and know that they're lying,
but it's just like they've spent their whole life lying
that they just lie right.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Some some And I don't think it's crazy, but like
sometimes you hear that all comedians are compulsive liars.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, no, that is not because they're making up.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Because they isn't isn't the hallmark of a compulsive liar.
They can't tell the same story twice?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Well you can't remember, I've told so many goddamn lies.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Well, but they just in conversation again, there's really no benefit,
even if for entertainment purposes, which I feel like for
a comedian is the point. Yes, but you you hear
that a lot because they always say that comedians all
have mental health issues. And one of them that they're
usually tagged with is compulsive lying. No, they're making good stories.
There's a kernel of truth. They're putting on an entertainment show,
(04:42):
like I listen, I hope. I'm not blowing it for anybody.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But Friends wasn't a documentary.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
That's not exactly we're not talking about it.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
They're putting on a show. It's comedy.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So the same thing with comedians is they may embellish
some facts, but they're also putting on a show.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Oh yeah, I don't like whichomedia miss that.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I dismiss that, But that is exactly I don't want.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
To find out there was really no trip to Russia
and no train.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
But if you told me that there were five people
on the train and not one hundred, I don't care.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Terrible example to site.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I know, I know, I know, But it was I
facetimed with him yesterday. So it's the first Oh I
dropped that. It's the first thing that came to mind.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
But it's within storytelling where a compulsivelyre shines and sometimes
I'll just tell a story that's not even there. Yeah,
and they're not doing it on stage to entertain an audio.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah right, No, they're just in that they're sitting at
the cubicles out here.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Like you can and you you hit the nail on
the head, and I believe this to be true. And
you said, you just read something the other day or
yesterday that the lie count is active in their mind.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
Yes, there's another way, yes, yeah, Oh they know.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
The second it comes out of their mouth, they're like, well,
there I go again. They said, it's very hard to
break it, is it.
Speaker 6 (06:00):
It's very very like a dopamine rush or something that
they get for the compulsive ones, you know what I mean.
Like there's there's there's a little bit of they know
that they're if they're keeping count, they know that that
they're telling a lie. And then there they get a
little like jolt about it, like oh, I'm putting one
over on somebody.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
See But that that that sounds like it's more pad.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I just think they don't Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
At some point they've told so many lies, you don't
get a rush anymore. Like at some point smoking one
joint doesn't do it well.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
The lies then probably become bigger. Diane's right, it might
be like an addiction.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, But I would bet I would bet they would
lie about big or small. If you're a compulsive liar,
it doesn't matter how grand or not grand.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
But if there is an associated feeling of like highness,
what does it call it? When you're high?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Awesome?
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Your royal highness?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
No, do we know any?
Speaker 5 (06:56):
Do we know?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Do we know any compulsive liars?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Kristen keeps saying, yes, who do we know?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
That's a compulsive liar? Who? She got a mouth that
the No, she's making a smiley face.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
I know she already texted it to me.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Oh so you know the person?
Speaker 3 (07:14):
That's who whom she's saying, Yes.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Wait, it's not the same person you thought may have been. No,
that's a pathological that's pathological like that.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, that's Diane's friend. Because she said we didn't know
who it is?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Do we know who the compulsive liar.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Is the one that Kristen's referring to?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yes, yes, do you agree with her?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You don't?
Speaker 6 (07:37):
I know them and you know them, but I'm she's
not going to say. To make her case though, that's okay.
Should I write down who it is?
Speaker 4 (07:46):
What about in her personal life? Do you know any
compulsive liars, So she.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Does in your personal life? Who well, saying, what are
examples though? Yeah? Turn yourself on? Turn is it? Mike?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Oh, that's in your personal life, so not in your
professional life. In your personal life.
Speaker 7 (08:07):
There's one professional.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Okay, that's not what I asked. I said personal.
Speaker 7 (08:12):
Yeah, I've ended friendships because of it.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Did it really?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So you were just like I'm not gonna I'm not
gonna sit. Did it end because you were like I
just I can't take it, or because you you were
made to feel stupid Internally you felt like I'm just
I'm allowing this to go on.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It makes me look dumb.
Speaker 7 (08:30):
Both and then when I called them out for it
and I'm like I'm done being involved.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Though, did they confess to like I lie all the time,
like I just I can't help myself kind of, And
then and you couldn't forgive them no.
Speaker 7 (08:42):
Because it's like you can't believe anything they say.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I guess there's that, But what if they wanted to
make so that was part of it. So so I'm
reading about these compulsive liars right who want to get help.
They're like, I don't know why I do it, but
I want to get help.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Is there a therapy that is specifically to address that?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I have to believe, Yes, there's therapy for everything. You
can get therapy because your.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Nails are too long, So I would have to assume.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Here's your therapy manicure.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Oh, I'm fearful of them.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Now I'm questioning everything you say.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Great example, No, no, But I'm saying you can get
therapy for anything.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
How hard was that section of the SATs.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So, yes, you should be able to get therapy for
being a compulsive liar. I would think, I.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Wonder what the exercises are that they put you through.
Don't try to go a day without that.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
But I will say this, I bet it's you.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
You can't go. You have to You have to start today.
Like you can't call, Like I don't know who your
pathological friend is, but you can't call. They can't call
you and go, hey, Diane, I want to apologize for
the last twenty five years of pathological lives. I've said
it has to start that day. Start that day, don't
come apologized to me. Start that, and you may have
(10:02):
to get a whole new group of friends.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Right. Well, yeah, I was gonna say start that day,
the person still has this past which you.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Have to wipe clean.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
You can't.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
You don't believe anything they said, right, that's why Kristen
can't be friends. You'd have to move on to the
new friend.
Speaker 7 (10:17):
I gave a second chance. They came and like clean
their slate, and they just got.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
To But why did Why did you call them out
at that moment?
Speaker 6 (10:26):
Ago?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You're lying again because.
Speaker 7 (10:28):
I'm like, you're doing the exact same thing.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
You're You're followed crying. I'm trying, I'm trying. Well, then
figure it out, get help.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
And then because they lost all their friends, all of
us started to realize, like we're just all being used
and lied to constantly.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Okay, but I'm sorry my car is on fire.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
She used that kind of somebody on Instagram asking every question,
can you be both the same things? Yes, so you
cannot help yourself, but you're also manipulating Yes, Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I'm gonna say yes.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I'm gonna say yes, because you could show up at
work and go, man, my car was on fire this morning.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
No it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, but you could also you could also use it
to manipulate, say hey, can I use your car? My
car just got on fire. Yeah, I bet you could,
but you have to start from scratch. You need new friends,
move to another town, okay, Kristen, No, well your town
there's only four people. But yeah, no, you would have to.
That would be very hard to rebound from.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I'm with it, and I want to hear from a therapist.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
But could you another therapist? Could you imagine that Turkey
is tough for any addiction. Absolutely so starting from scratch.
It's not as easy as just saying it no. I know,
but it takes work. But you've you've already harmed so
many people, and it's in like, for example, I understand
that if well, you know, I should let a therapist talk,
(11:52):
I should let no no, because I was going to say,
you could go back and go listen. I had a
really bad drug problem, right, and I may have stolen
from you, you know whatever, whatever it is the apologies
that they need. I was lying to you, I was
stealing from you. I was doing all these things because
I have a really bad drug addiction. Lying just may
be compulsively. Line would just be like, yeah, I just
(12:13):
lie to your face, just to lie to your face.
But at the same time, I don't want that person
to also go I'm going to be what do they
call that, where you're like always honest? Like I don't
want that. Yeah, I don't want that.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
That's different. That's not the opposite of compulsive.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
No, no, But I don't want somebody who's like, well,
I'm always going to be honest.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You look fat, like okay, well go to hell.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Yeah, sometimes you can just keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Who was art?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Who was the who was the iHeart manager? Who wanted
radical honesty?
Speaker 4 (12:40):
You asked this question all the time?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Oh, Scott Hopek robot robot nice guy though, nice guy,
But I was never radically honest with him. I'm being
more honest about him now than I was to him.
Big man, Where am I going?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Line six? Hi, Yelly in the morning.
Speaker 8 (13:02):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Is this me? Yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am, this is Ashley.
Speaker 8 (13:07):
I'm calling about the you know, compulsive lying and stuff
and pathical.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
You are you? Are you a compulsive liar?
Speaker 5 (13:15):
No?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I am not.
Speaker 8 (13:16):
My ex was He lied about being in the Marines. Uh,
he lies about being in the Secret Service. He would
lie about money, He would lie about just anything and
everything that he could.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
But what for for? Even to you?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, everyone.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So you would go like, hey, let's go watch the
Secret Service FBI hockey game this week, and he would go, oh,
I used to be in the Secret Service.
Speaker 8 (13:46):
He would no, he says actively that he's in the
Secret Service.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Oh did you?
Speaker 6 (13:52):
And then he would say he can't talk about it
because he's in the Secret Service.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
By any chance. Did you know what he did for a.
Speaker 8 (14:02):
Well now, yeah, so now he's a physical therapist assistant.
So yeah, that's what.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
The But that makes no sense. But did he keep
the lie going while you were married?
Speaker 8 (14:19):
Well, so we weren't married, We just we had a
kid together. But once I kind of thing started unraveling
once we moved in together and I started meeting his
family and everything. His family actually because I mentioned something
to one of his family members and they called him
out on it and he kind of had to, you know,
come forward with the truth. But as far as I know,
(14:42):
with his friends and everything outside of his family and me,
he still keeps the lie going.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh my god, that's crazy. Yeah, but that to me,
that to me, thank you, ma'am. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
At least let me give the guy credit. No, no, no,
at least at least he kept it going. They said
a lot of times with compulsive liars, they've told so
many lies.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
You're trying to like that's remember.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I gotta remember I'm a secret service agent even though
I'm I'm an assistant at for a physical therapist.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Could you imagine if you had told thousands of lies,
you can't keep up with that?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Right, I feel like almost a compulsive liar, by its
truest definition, would to so many people be so many
different say there is different.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, I'm a secret service agent, I'm a butcher.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah exactly. Well, yeah, and I guess anything, it's not true.
Manicurist really trying to sell that another I.
Speaker 8 (15:44):
Let it go.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Line three, Hi Elliott in the morning. Yeah, Hi, who's that?
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Adam?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
From Adam? I am doing great? What can I do
for you?
Speaker 9 (15:58):
So? I am someone who has been kind of struggling
with compulsive lying throughout the entirety.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Of my life.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Are you serious?
Speaker 9 (16:06):
Unfortunately?
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Are you lying to me right now? You probably hate now,
you probably you probably hate.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
You know.
Speaker 9 (16:14):
It's it's honestly, the biggest part of therapy is kind
of to take the accountability of what you've kind of
done and what you've been telling people that's not correct.
And so yeah, you hear it a lot. And like
you know, I'm married, I have a kid with my wife,
and we had some issues with that where you know,
she's gotten close to leaving me as a result of
the compulsive lying. So this is it's a it's all
(16:36):
kind of just brought on by yourself. I mean, it's
just kind of take it on because you did it.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Did you So let me back up. Did you start
compulsive lying as a kid?
Speaker 8 (16:46):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 9 (16:47):
I remember the very first one because at the time
I had gotten a kind of a bad day report card.
I got a frownie taste because I wasn't very kind
to a kid during you know, whatever plight during kindergarten
or so, and I didn't want my mom to see
the bad report, so I throw it away in the
trash can on the buzz on the way home, and
the bus driver was the wife of our pediatrician and
(17:08):
gave that to my mom and down the road and
I was trying to cover it up. That was the
first start of it. But then when I was a kid,
I actually used to get like a pain in my
stomach where I feel physically ill. But for whatever reason,
I just kind of kept going through it, and that
feeling dissipated the.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Time, so so you you would have a physical reaction
to lying, but over time you were just so accustomed
to lying. But you know, you know, it's weird the
the And I'm not I'm not defending you, because obviously
you know it's a problem, but I can understand. I
can understand throwing out the smiley face and lying about
it because you didn't want to get in trouble, so
(17:42):
you did it out of a you did it out
of what you thought was self protection or self preservation, right,
But then that true, and.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I think that turns into just lying about everything.
Speaker 9 (17:54):
Yeah, and I and I, you know, hearing the differences
between pathological versus h I think it's like, you know,
there's a very fine kind I think between the two
in a way, like in one way, I was trying
to protect myself from getting in trouble, but at the
same time it was a manipulative tactic to try to
not get in trouble then right manipulate myself into a
(18:14):
better position than what I had done. So I find
that there's a bit of a fine line between the two.
And having gone through therapy for.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
A while for this.
Speaker 9 (18:23):
It's just, Yeah, it's a tough spot and it's not
it's not the easiest thing. And it's really disheartening sometimes
because even on some of the simple stuff, my wife
would just double check, like maybe been lying.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 9 (18:34):
I've been one hundred percent honest as much as it
can hurt and makes me nervous, like even to the
point of, you know, I'll get like kind of shaky
with working through telling the truth, not like one thing
to lie. It makes me nervous because I'm afraid of
some of the outcomes that may come my way to
the truth.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Hey, what is the what is the Did you lose
friendships growing up because of being.
Speaker 9 (18:54):
Oh, dude, I have no I like no friends nobody.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
No, they said, they said, sadly, that's very common because
your friends are like.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Why would I put up with it? Yeah? Why would
I be a friend of yours? All you do is
lie to me?
Speaker 9 (19:06):
That's ridiculous, right, Yeah, it's some stupidous little things too.
It's nothing major that I really lie about, because I
mean there's been a couple obviously, because that's just how
human nature was or whatever. As I grew up. But yeah,
even over the small stuff, I just started losing friends
a little bit here and there, is based off some
distance from different stages of life. But eventually it just
kind of never really picked back up, where you just
(19:27):
don't do touch with people anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
So what does the therapist tell you that you just
have to kind of start, You just have to start
on a Wednesday and just go, I'm gonna be honest.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Now.
Speaker 9 (19:37):
Yeah, a lot of it was, like I said, the
accountability of trying to identify like the root cause of
why I felt the need to lie in the first place.
You know, I'm boosting up self confidence, you know, just
certain things to even try to do. Journaling was a
big thing kind of keeping myself accountable in that way
as well, just for overall mental health in general as well,
(19:59):
you know, like the gym, make sure I'm bringing on
of water, eating correctly, you know, documenting if I felt
the need to lie, what that lie was, since we
know what it is, you know at the time, you
get telling it, identifying if I can why I felt
that that was appropriate to lie about. So just kind
of breaking the cycle of just letting it flow out
(20:21):
of your mouth without checking yourself right out of the process.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Hey, and would you know, like this thing that I
was reading as the lie and like you said, nothing significant,
I'm just talking about stupid lies as the lies were
coming out of your mouth in your head where you're like, well,
there I go, I'm lying again.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
That's a lie.
Speaker 9 (20:40):
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
No, But I mean it sounds crazy. But I can't
say I get it because that's not me a mental illness.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, right, I feel it does.
Speaker 9 (21:00):
It's almost, I mean almost feel like you just you
don't have control over what your mind and mouth they're
doing at the moment, and you just kind of like,
I'm just gonna go with it. But it's not the
right answer, right, it should be. Oh, that's not direct.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
About do you get angry and defensive when your wife
double checks you?
Speaker 9 (21:15):
Now, I used to, and I used to get more
frustrated with myself, and it took a lot of communication
between her and I to where I would have to
make sure she understood that in the moment if I
was looking frustrated that I was not frustrated with her
as frusure with myself for my past actions and for
putting myself into that position. And I still do get
(21:36):
that way. Occasionally her check in has become less frequent
as I've been putting the work in and as you know,
she's rebuilding trust very very very slowly. I mean, this
has been years long a process. But yeah, I would
get incredibly frustrated and angry. But then I especially at
the start, but then realizing, well, you did this to yourself, idiot,
(21:56):
you know.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Right, that's that's fascin I'm so glad that you called.
I appreciate it. Thank you, sir, any time you got it.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Wow, that has to be wow inspiring to maybe many
people who are listening who find themselves years behind him
in his progress. Oh, I would think, so is there
a genetic component?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
It's a lying yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Asking pardon me?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Do you know that?
Speaker 5 (22:24):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Because we talked about it being I just lied.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
He talked about it being.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Do they feel bad like an addiction?
Speaker 8 (22:35):
Right?
Speaker 4 (22:35):
And people who suffer greatly, especially from substance abuse, they
worry about passing that down that gene. Is this something
when it comes to families that you're fearful of?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Oh that's a good question. Does lyning? But get lying?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
It seems like there could be some genetic components.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I was right, look at that I lied. I didn't.
I knew I was lying, but I was actually telling
the truth.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
What you said there wasn't. No, I said, yes, you
definitely said there wasn't.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
What did I say yes to that you had lied?
Speaker 6 (23:06):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, there we go? All right, there we go. Line eight, Hi,
Elliot in the morning.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
Shy Is this me?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yes, Elliott?
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Hello, he's here.
Speaker 8 (23:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
No, I said hi, like it sounded like you were cold.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
That's notical honesty.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
It's maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Are you Scott Hopepeck anyway, I'm sorry, yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
No, you sounded you sounded you sound like something sounds
like something was wrong.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
No, it's hard to tell when you pick up. This
is the genetic component. Calling my kid is a total liar.
I have like zero sympathy for that guy that just called.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Hold on, hold on, the guy who is the recovery
who went through therapy for compulsive line.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You have no sympathy, No, like so.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Little, like maybe a little, I don't know, like very little.
My kid lies. They're in their twenties, they live about twenties.
They lay about everything like the stupidest stuff, like stuff
you just don't care about. Like they'll be like, hey,
going to work, and I'm like, all right, cool, have
a great day. And then they'll be like with the
mall and I'm like, why would you even lie about
(24:28):
something so stupid? Nobody cares? You're at the mall like
that good time at the mall, and they're just like,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Know, I just want to go, like we care, so
but the genetic part. Were you a compulsive liar?
Speaker 8 (24:45):
No?
Speaker 5 (24:45):
But they'll always it's always like when they go to
the therapy, when they go to therapy, right, and they're like, oh,
I just didn't want you to think this, And it's
like some kind of like narrative or whatever that they
made up in their mind about why they had to
lie and like to blame others about why they had
(25:07):
to lie, And.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Like, okay, you can't cut you can't. Can I ask
you this?
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Though?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Do you wish do you wish your kid wasn't lying
to you?
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Of course, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Okay, but pause, pause, pause, Then why can't you appreciate
the guy who was like that used to be me,
but I'm I worked on myself to fix it. You
should you should appreciate you should appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
No, because I feel like they like do it to
like gain to gain this like sympathy of like almost
like of like, look at me, I'm doing such a
great job because I hurt you so bad and now like,
now looks how great I am at making you feel
(25:58):
bad about this? And I'm like, no, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I'm going to I'm going to defend him on that
because I would so if you're if your daughter was like, listen,
I'm tired of lying. I know nobody gives an ass
that I'm at the mall whatever and went and got
help and fixed it. I wouldn't go like, oh, she's
just doing it to garner sympathy. I would be happy
for her. I'd be happy for you.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Oh great, Then can I stop coming to these therapy things?
And can we stop talking about it? And you're dragging
me into your stories because I want to go to
the mall?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
All right, So it's taken up part of her day.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Maybe it wasn't hard to hear the day.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Maybe it was just a state of mind, you know what.
Maybe it maybe it's just hard for you because you're
swimming in it.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Right now.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
Yeah, it's it's so like consuming and it's like you
go through your mind and it's like, wait, this is
my phone right what? Yeah? Yeah, because and then you
got listen to this like things. It's more lies and
I'm like that dog ain't gonna hunt.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Amen. Amen? All right, all right, very good, Thank you, ma'am.
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
That's analogy, not your manicure. Isn't it more of a metaphor? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
You know what I can I can give you therapy
on figuring those out.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
What do I do with her?
Speaker 4 (27:43):
I think she should stick with the therapy. Yeah, because
this situation is not resolved.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
No, but that's why I don't want that guy who called,
who I thought was very very I don't want to
say brave, but was great for calling.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, and for people to go screw him. He's just
looking for her.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
I'm sure he deals with that a lot. Not for me, no, no, no,
but I'm sure everybody. I'm sure he probably gets that.
He gets that reaction. He hung up, and I called
him an inspiration.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, all right, I called her or but I still
like her. She listens, I like all listeners. All right.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
This this, this is the roll of the dice for
this next call, because now they have to pick a side.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
No, yes, there's the caller A, and now call her
B and here comes see, Well what is C We're
about to find out?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yep, all right, watching the lie about their name? Hi,
Elliet the morning.
Speaker 10 (28:35):
I'm not gonna lie about my name. My name is
Vincent from Charlestown.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yes, I'm pretty often.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
So.
Speaker 10 (28:43):
I I grew up kind of watching my dad lie
about certain things, and I saw that he could get
away with it. So at a younger age, I started
to And I remember lying for the first time, and
I was probably about four or five years old, and
(29:03):
in my lie, I actually lied about stealing something from Walmart.
Well years ago by I struggled with drug addiction and
alcohol addiction for about eight to nine years from the
time I was about sixteen seventeen and so until I
got sober a little bit over two years ago. Right,
(29:26):
But when I went through rehabilitation and rehab and all
the therapy that I've gone through, I've realized that, you know,
my lie was like almost second nature to me because
of my addiction. And I originally really only started compulsivelying
(29:48):
because of the personal issues I was dealing with and
through the time being you know, the rehab thing, you know,
made me realize that a lot more and you know
how to correctly manage it and realize that it was
just like a really bad character defect.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Sure, and listen, I get I feel like I get
the the like. Listen, I have I have a lot
of friends that have gone through rehab also, right, and
you I feel like you do learn from them that
they lied a lot, whether it was to cover their addiction,
to cover how bad their addiction was, uh, to cover
a lot of things, right, so so that not the
(30:28):
line became a result of how bad the addiction was.
But going back to what you said, the the the
like from your dad that that's a learned behavior, right,
Seeing your dad be quote successful at line, that just
became a learned behavior.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
That's not a genetic behavior. Right.
Speaker 10 (30:47):
I would agree with that, because I mean, I don't
I don't think I think in it in a sense.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
With him, it was a.
Speaker 10 (30:56):
It was always out of like just him having an
extreme hopefulness of being able to do the things that
he lied about. And I mean it was it was weird.
Speaker 9 (31:09):
It was different with the with.
Speaker 10 (31:11):
The previous caller with with yours most of at least
me personally. You know, it's not I like to share
my story, whether it's about the addiction issues or my
mental health issues, just because it does help other people.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Sure, it's it's not.
Speaker 10 (31:32):
It's not about you know, the person who is who
is speaking about you know, I just want to have
the sympathy from other people, you know, because then you're
you're more looking at like a victim mentality of I
just want people to feel bad for me instead of
I want people to get help because I was able
to get help.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Sure, I understand that. And you said you've been you've
been clean for two years.
Speaker 10 (31:57):
Yeah, it was two years on Valentine's.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
David Dude, good for you. Congratulations, that's awesome.
Speaker 10 (32:03):
Thanks man. I love listening to you guys, calling as
much as I can. You guys are great. Love to class.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I love you too, that's honest.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Oh you're a lie detector?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
The Oh I'm good at that?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Do you think so?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
No, I'm pretty gullible.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Or any one of the calls on hold a doctor
the no, Okay, I mean they know there's one here
that would have been nice to put on a lot
of different perspectives we've heard.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
But you know, you know what's weird? Like that guy
said he remembers his first line. Do you remember the
first lie you told.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
As a kid? I mean, listen, everybody lied as a kid.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Of course, I.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Couldn't tell you the first lie I ever told. I
also can't tell you the most recent one I ever told.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Do they haven't lied today yet?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Intentionally?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
How did you lie unintentionally?
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Well, I feel like I misspoke earlier where I thought
I said yes, but I said no and then said no.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
But yeah, it's just stupid.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So yeah, no, I have a lie today, did I?
I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Did you lie yesterday?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
No? What am I lying about?
Speaker 4 (33:19):
Well, Diane's done those reports. How many lies a person
tells each day?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, but I don't If I did, it wasn't knowingly,
it wasn't compulsively.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Did it happened?
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Maybe hopek did have a greater effect on you than
you realize.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, maybe I'm all solid. Maybe I'm all solid.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Well that's a lie.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
No, that that that is heafinitly a lie. I was
one hundred percent liquid this morning,
D you.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Do you know somebody that you would say is a
compulsive liar?
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Who, I'm not gonna say no, no, no, like you're not
saying me no, oh thank you, no, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Didn't it sound that way.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
No, it's just like I would instantly say no. But
this she took a breath there to think about it,
and it's like, oh, if she clearly had one in mind.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Are you friendly with them?
Speaker 5 (00:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Like do you? But and so you just every time
they talk, you just got dad. This is clearly a lot. Yeah,
do you really?
Speaker 6 (00:32):
Yeah, it's it's it's difficult to believe everything this person says.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
How about anything the person says, I mean no, no,
I'm being I'm being serious.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm being serious.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Why is Kristen laughing so much?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Is it Kristin?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
No?
Speaker 4 (00:44):
No, And you're saying this person is compulsive not pathological.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
What's the difference.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
The difference isn't pathological, more the motivation. It's it's about manipulation.
Compulsive as you just can't help yourself. You're pathological. Oh
I want compulsive compulsive? No, sorry, I'm like you kids
with a pathological liar?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Like, what are they? What are they? What's the what
are they moving?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I've said too much?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Do I know them?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
No, damn it.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I can't think of like a pathological lie. But it's
you said, it's to.
Speaker 6 (01:16):
Be impulsive means you can't help yourself, right, yes you can.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
No, there are people and I don't know what you read,
but it's it's so interesting when I've come across articles
about compulsive liars. They they they literally in conversation, they
just lie, like.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
They're lying about stupid stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Their nature is lying.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
That's what I was reading about, is these groups of
people where there's no and it could be over the
dumbest thing. And I don't mean like white lies like
oh to protect somebody, yeah, like you don't want to
hurt their feelings where it's like no, you know what,
that sweater looks nice, like I'm talking about like legit.
And they even said so I was reading about these people, right,
(01:59):
these compulsive life and it's everything from a lot of
them don't have any friends because people just get tired
of it and they're.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Like I am not going to be around, don't bargo anymore.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
But you can believe right where and it pisses people
and you just discount everything they say like, I don't
believe anything the person says, well, and.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Then you feel stupid, they were saying. So they were like,
I don't have any like irl friends. They said, most
compulsive liars their friends are on the internet, or it
gets to the point where their friends are.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
On the internet because everyone lies on the internet.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
No, well maybe, but no, it's just more like they're
not you're not interacting with them face to face, and like,
you haven't you haven't spent years with it. You may
be friends with them online for years, but you can
kind of create a whole different persona online. But I
get that because because the friends they were saying, the
(02:51):
friends are like at some point the friends start feeling
stupid of.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Like why do I why do I just put up
with this?
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Yeah, Diane, right, You almost can justify a pathological liar
more because you understand the reason. The reason is maybe
manipulating you, but you're like, oh, this person's thought this out.
There is benefit to them to lie about this. Compulsive
(03:17):
is probably very frustrating, not only for the person who
suffers from it and at the time that they eventually
realize it for sure, but for those around who are like,
I don't know how to help this person they can't
help themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yes, and they said, and this was the part that
I thought was interesting. The compulsive liar. When the lie
comes out of their mouth, they know it, Yeah, they
know it, but they're just so used to lying that.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
They won't even go, like, why not just stop and
go back? You know what?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I misspoke? Like, I don't expect them to come out
and go you've got potectual like and know that they're lying,
but it's just like they've spent their whole life lying
that they just lie right.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Some some And I don't think it's crazy, but like
sometimes you hear that all comedians are compulsive liars.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, no, that is not because they're making up.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Because they isn't isn't the hallmark of a compulsive liar.
They can't tell the same story twice?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Well you can't remember, I've told so many goddamn lies.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Well, but they just in conversation again, there's really no benefit,
even if for entertainment purposes, which I feel like for
a comedian is the point. Yes, but you you hear
that a lot because they always say that comedians all
have mental health issues. And one of them that they're
usually tagged with is compulsive lying. No, they're making good stories.
There's a kernel of truth. They're putting on an entertainment show,
(04:42):
like I listen, I hope. I'm not blowing it for anybody.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But Friends wasn't a documentary.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
That's not exactly we're not talking about it.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
They're putting on a show. It's comedy.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So the same thing with comedians is they may embellish
some facts, but they're also putting on a show.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Oh yeah, I don't like whichomedia miss that.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I dismiss that, But that is exactly I don't want.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
To find out there was really no trip to Russia
and no train.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
But if you told me that there were five people
on the train and not one hundred, I don't care.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Terrible example to site.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I know, I know, I know, But it was I
facetimed with him yesterday. So it's the first Oh I
dropped that. It's the first thing that came to mind.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
But it's within storytelling where a compulsivelyre shines and sometimes
I'll just tell a story that's not even there. Yeah,
and they're not doing it on stage to entertain an audio.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah right, No, they're just in that they're sitting at
the cubicles out here.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Like you can and you you hit the nail on
the head, and I believe this to be true. And
you said, you just read something the other day or
yesterday that the lie count is active in their mind.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
Yes, there's another way, yes, yeah, Oh they know.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
The second it comes out of their mouth, they're like, well,
there I go again. They said, it's very hard to
break it, is it.
Speaker 6 (06:00):
It's very very like a dopamine rush or something that
they get for the compulsive ones, you know what I mean.
Like there's there's there's a little bit of they know
that they're if they're keeping count, they know that that
they're telling a lie. And then there they get a
little like jolt about it, like oh, I'm putting one
over on somebody.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
See But that that that sounds like it's more pad.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I just think they don't Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
At some point they've told so many lies, you don't
get a rush anymore. Like at some point smoking one
joint doesn't do it well.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
The lies then probably become bigger. Diane's right, it might
be like an addiction.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, But I would bet I would bet they would
lie about big or small. If you're a compulsive liar,
it doesn't matter how grand or not grand.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
But if there is an associated feeling of like highness,
what does it call it? When you're high?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Awesome?
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Your royal highness?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
No, do we know any?
Speaker 5 (06:56):
Do we know?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Do we know any compulsive liars?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Kristen keeps saying, yes, who do we know?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
That's a compulsive liar? Who? She got a mouth that
the No, she's making a smiley face.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
I know she already texted it to me.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Oh so you know the person?
Speaker 3 (07:14):
That's who whom she's saying, Yes.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Wait, it's not the same person you thought may have been. No,
that's a pathological that's pathological like that.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, that's Diane's friend. Because she said we didn't know
who it is?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Do we know who the compulsive liar.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Is the one that Kristen's referring to?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yes, yes, do you agree with her?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You don't?
Speaker 6 (07:37):
I know them and you know them, but I'm she's
not going to say. To make her case though, that's okay.
Should I write down who it is?
Speaker 4 (07:46):
What about in her personal life? Do you know any
compulsive liars, So she.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Does in your personal life? Who well, saying, what are
examples though? Yeah? Turn yourself on? Turn is it? Mike?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Oh, that's in your personal life, so not in your
professional life. In your personal life.
Speaker 7 (08:07):
There's one professional.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Okay, that's not what I asked. I said personal.
Speaker 7 (08:12):
Yeah, I've ended friendships because of it.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Did it really?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So you were just like I'm not gonna I'm not
gonna sit. Did it end because you were like I
just I can't take it, or because you you were
made to feel stupid Internally you felt like I'm just
I'm allowing this to go on.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
It makes me look dumb.
Speaker 7 (08:30):
Both and then when I called them out for it
and I'm like I'm done being involved.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Though, did they confess to like I lie all the time,
like I just I can't help myself kind of, And
then and you couldn't forgive them no.
Speaker 7 (08:42):
Because it's like you can't believe anything they say.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I guess there's that, But what if they wanted to
make so that was part of it. So so I'm
reading about these compulsive liars right who want to get help.
They're like, I don't know why I do it, but
I want to get help.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Is there a therapy that is specifically to address that?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I have to believe, Yes, there's therapy for everything. You
can get therapy because your.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Nails are too long, So I would have to assume.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Here's your therapy manicure.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Oh, I'm fearful of them.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Now I'm questioning everything you say.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Great example, No, no, But I'm saying you can get
therapy for anything.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
How hard was that section of the SATs.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So, yes, you should be able to get therapy for
being a compulsive liar. I would think, I.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Wonder what the exercises are that they put you through.
Don't try to go a day without that.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
But I will say this, I bet it's you.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
You can't go. You have to You have to start today.
Like you can't call, Like I don't know who your
pathological friend is, but you can't call. They can't call
you and go, hey, Diane, I want to apologize for
the last twenty five years of pathological lives. I've said
it has to start that day. Start that day, don't
come apologized to me. Start that, and you may have
(10:02):
to get a whole new group of friends.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Right. Well, yeah, I was gonna say start that day,
the person still has this past which you.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Have to wipe clean.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
You can't.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
You don't believe anything they said, right, that's why Kristen
can't be friends. You'd have to move on to the
new friend.
Speaker 7 (10:17):
I gave a second chance. They came and like clean
their slate, and they just got.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
To But why did Why did you call them out
at that moment?
Speaker 6 (10:26):
Ago?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You're lying again because.
Speaker 7 (10:28):
I'm like, you're doing the exact same thing.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
You're You're followed crying. I'm trying, I'm trying. Well, then
figure it out, get help.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
And then because they lost all their friends, all of
us started to realize, like we're just all being used
and lied to constantly.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Okay, but I'm sorry my car is on fire.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
She used that kind of somebody on Instagram asking every question,
can you be both the same things? Yes, so you
cannot help yourself, but you're also manipulating Yes, Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I'm gonna say yes.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I'm gonna say yes, because you could show up at
work and go, man, my car was on fire this morning.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
No it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, but you could also you could also use it
to manipulate, say hey, can I use your car? My
car just got on fire. Yeah, I bet you could,
but you have to start from scratch. You need new friends,
move to another town, okay, Kristen, No, well your town
there's only four people. But yeah, no, you would have to.
That would be very hard to rebound from.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I'm with it, and I want to hear from a therapist.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
But could you another therapist? Could you imagine that Turkey
is tough for any addiction. Absolutely so starting from scratch.
It's not as easy as just saying it no. I know,
but it takes work. But you've you've already harmed so
many people, and it's in like, for example, I understand
that if well, you know, I should let a therapist talk,
(11:52):
I should let no no, because I was going to say,
you could go back and go listen. I had a
really bad drug problem, right, and I may have stolen
from you, you know whatever, whatever it is the apologies
that they need. I was lying to you, I was
stealing from you. I was doing all these things because
I have a really bad drug addiction. Lying just may
be compulsively. Line would just be like, yeah, I just
(12:13):
lie to your face, just to lie to your face.
But at the same time, I don't want that person
to also go I'm going to be what do they
call that, where you're like always honest? Like I don't
want that. Yeah, I don't want that.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
That's different. That's not the opposite of compulsive.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
No, no, But I don't want somebody who's like, well,
I'm always going to be honest.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You look fat, like okay, well go to hell.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Yeah, sometimes you can just keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Who was art?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Who was the who was the iHeart manager? Who wanted
radical honesty?
Speaker 4 (12:40):
You asked this question all the time?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Oh, Scott Hopek robot robot nice guy though, nice guy,
But I was never radically honest with him. I'm being
more honest about him now than I was to him.
Big man, Where am I going?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Line six? Hi, Yelly in the morning.
Speaker 8 (13:02):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Is this me? Yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am, this is Ashley.
Speaker 8 (13:07):
I'm calling about the you know, compulsive lying and stuff
and pathical.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
You are you? Are you a compulsive liar?
Speaker 5 (13:15):
No?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I am not.
Speaker 8 (13:16):
My ex was He lied about being in the Marines. Uh,
he lies about being in the Secret Service. He would
lie about money, He would lie about just anything and
everything that he could.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
But what for for? Even to you?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, everyone.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So you would go like, hey, let's go watch the
Secret Service FBI hockey game this week, and he would go, oh,
I used to be in the Secret Service.
Speaker 8 (13:46):
He would no, he says actively that he's in the
Secret Service.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Oh did you?
Speaker 6 (13:52):
And then he would say he can't talk about it
because he's in the Secret Service.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
By any chance. Did you know what he did for a.
Speaker 8 (14:02):
Well now, yeah, so now he's a physical therapist assistant.
So yeah, that's what.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
The But that makes no sense. But did he keep
the lie going while you were married?
Speaker 8 (14:19):
Well, so we weren't married, We just we had a
kid together. But once I kind of thing started unraveling
once we moved in together and I started meeting his
family and everything. His family actually because I mentioned something
to one of his family members and they called him
out on it and he kind of had to, you know,
come forward with the truth. But as far as I know,
(14:42):
with his friends and everything outside of his family and me,
he still keeps the lie going.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh my god, that's crazy. Yeah, but that to me,
that to me, thank you, ma'am. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
At least let me give the guy credit. No, no, no,
at least at least he kept it going. They said
a lot of times with compulsive liars, they've told so
many lies.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
You're trying to like that's remember.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I gotta remember I'm a secret service agent even though
I'm I'm an assistant at for a physical therapist.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Could you imagine if you had told thousands of lies,
you can't keep up with that?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Right, I feel like almost a compulsive liar, by its
truest definition, would to so many people be so many
different say there is different.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, I'm a secret service agent, I'm a butcher.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah exactly. Well, yeah, and I guess anything, it's not true.
Manicurist really trying to sell that another I.
Speaker 8 (15:44):
Let it go.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Line three, Hi Elliott in the morning. Yeah, Hi, who's that?
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Adam?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
From Adam? I am doing great? What can I do
for you?
Speaker 9 (15:58):
So? I am someone who has been kind of struggling
with compulsive lying throughout the entirety.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Of my life.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Are you serious?
Speaker 9 (16:06):
Unfortunately?
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Are you lying to me right now? You probably hate now,
you probably you probably hate.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
You know.
Speaker 9 (16:14):
It's it's honestly, the biggest part of therapy is kind
of to take the accountability of what you've kind of
done and what you've been telling people that's not correct.
And so yeah, you hear it a lot. And like
you know, I'm married, I have a kid with my wife,
and we had some issues with that where you know,
she's gotten close to leaving me as a result of
the compulsive lying. So this is it's a it's all
(16:36):
kind of just brought on by yourself. I mean, it's
just kind of take it on because you did it.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Did you So let me back up. Did you start
compulsive lying as a kid?
Speaker 8 (16:46):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 9 (16:47):
I remember the very first one because at the time
I had gotten a kind of a bad day report card.
I got a frownie taste because I wasn't very kind
to a kid during you know, whatever plight during kindergarten
or so, and I didn't want my mom to see
the bad report, so I throw it away in the
trash can on the buzz on the way home, and
the bus driver was the wife of our pediatrician and
(17:08):
gave that to my mom and down the road and
I was trying to cover it up. That was the
first start of it. But then when I was a kid,
I actually used to get like a pain in my
stomach where I feel physically ill. But for whatever reason,
I just kind of kept going through it, and that
feeling dissipated the.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Time, so so you you would have a physical reaction
to lying, but over time you were just so accustomed
to lying. But you know, you know, it's weird the
the And I'm not I'm not defending you, because obviously
you know it's a problem, but I can understand. I
can understand throwing out the smiley face and lying about
it because you didn't want to get in trouble, so
(17:42):
you did it out of a you did it out
of what you thought was self protection or self preservation, right,
But then that true, and.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I think that turns into just lying about everything.
Speaker 9 (17:54):
Yeah, and I and I, you know, hearing the differences
between pathological versus h I think it's like, you know,
there's a very fine kind I think between the two
in a way, like in one way, I was trying
to protect myself from getting in trouble, but at the
same time it was a manipulative tactic to try to
not get in trouble then right manipulate myself into a
(18:14):
better position than what I had done. So I find
that there's a bit of a fine line between the two.
And having gone through therapy for.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
A while for this.
Speaker 9 (18:23):
It's just, Yeah, it's a tough spot and it's not
it's not the easiest thing. And it's really disheartening sometimes
because even on some of the simple stuff, my wife
would just double check, like maybe been lying.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 9 (18:34):
I've been one hundred percent honest as much as it
can hurt and makes me nervous, like even to the
point of, you know, I'll get like kind of shaky
with working through telling the truth, not like one thing
to lie. It makes me nervous because I'm afraid of
some of the outcomes that may come my way to
the truth.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Hey, what is the what is the Did you lose
friendships growing up because of being.
Speaker 9 (18:54):
Oh, dude, I have no I like no friends nobody.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
No, they said, they said, sadly, that's very common because
your friends are like.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Why would I put up with it? Yeah? Why would
I be a friend of yours? All you do is
lie to me?
Speaker 9 (19:06):
That's ridiculous, right, Yeah, it's some stupidous little things too.
It's nothing major that I really lie about, because I
mean there's been a couple obviously, because that's just how
human nature was or whatever. As I grew up. But yeah,
even over the small stuff, I just started losing friends
a little bit here and there, is based off some
distance from different stages of life. But eventually it just
kind of never really picked back up, where you just
(19:27):
don't do touch with people anymore.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
So what does the therapist tell you that you just
have to kind of start, You just have to start
on a Wednesday and just go, I'm gonna be honest.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Now.
Speaker 9 (19:37):
Yeah, a lot of it was, like I said, the
accountability of trying to identify like the root cause of
why I felt the need to lie in the first place.
You know, I'm boosting up self confidence, you know, just
certain things to even try to do. Journaling was a
big thing kind of keeping myself accountable in that way
as well, just for overall mental health in general as well,
(19:59):
you know, like the gym, make sure I'm bringing on
of water, eating correctly, you know, documenting if I felt
the need to lie, what that lie was, since we
know what it is, you know at the time, you
get telling it, identifying if I can why I felt
that that was appropriate to lie about. So just kind
of breaking the cycle of just letting it flow out
(20:21):
of your mouth without checking yourself right out of the process.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Hey, and would you know, like this thing that I
was reading as the lie and like you said, nothing significant,
I'm just talking about stupid lies as the lies were
coming out of your mouth in your head where you're like, well,
there I go, I'm lying again.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
That's a lie.
Speaker 9 (20:40):
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
No, But I mean it sounds crazy. But I can't
say I get it because that's not me a mental illness.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, right, I feel it does.
Speaker 9 (21:00):
It's almost, I mean almost feel like you just you
don't have control over what your mind and mouth they're
doing at the moment, and you just kind of like,
I'm just gonna go with it. But it's not the
right answer, right, it should be. Oh, that's not direct.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
About do you get angry and defensive when your wife
double checks you?
Speaker 9 (21:15):
Now, I used to, and I used to get more
frustrated with myself, and it took a lot of communication
between her and I to where I would have to
make sure she understood that in the moment if I
was looking frustrated that I was not frustrated with her
as frusure with myself for my past actions and for
putting myself into that position. And I still do get
(21:36):
that way. Occasionally her check in has become less frequent
as I've been putting the work in and as you know,
she's rebuilding trust very very very slowly. I mean, this
has been years long a process. But yeah, I would
get incredibly frustrated and angry. But then I especially at
the start, but then realizing, well, you did this to yourself, idiot,
(21:56):
you know.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Right, that's that's fascin I'm so glad that you called.
I appreciate it. Thank you, sir, any time you got it.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Wow, that has to be wow inspiring to maybe many
people who are listening who find themselves years behind him
in his progress. Oh, I would think, so is there
a genetic component?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
It's a lying yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Asking pardon me?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Do you know that?
Speaker 5 (22:24):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Because we talked about it being I just lied.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
He talked about it being.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Do they feel bad like an addiction?
Speaker 8 (22:35):
Right?
Speaker 4 (22:35):
And people who suffer greatly, especially from substance abuse, they
worry about passing that down that gene. Is this something
when it comes to families that you're fearful of?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Oh that's a good question. Does lyning? But get lying?
Speaker 3 (22:49):
It seems like there could be some genetic components.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I was right, look at that I lied. I didn't.
I knew I was lying, but I was actually telling
the truth.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
What you said there wasn't. No, I said, yes, you
definitely said there wasn't.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
What did I say yes to that you had lied?
Speaker 6 (23:06):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, there we go? All right, there we go. Line eight, Hi,
Elliot in the morning.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
Shy Is this me?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yes, Elliott?
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Hello, he's here.
Speaker 8 (23:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
No, I said hi, like it sounded like you were cold.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
That's notical honesty.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
It's maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Are you Scott Hopepeck anyway, I'm sorry, yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
No, you sounded you sounded you sound like something sounds
like something was wrong.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
No, it's hard to tell when you pick up. This
is the genetic component. Calling my kid is a total liar.
I have like zero sympathy for that guy that just called.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Hold on, hold on, the guy who is the recovery
who went through therapy for compulsive line.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You have no sympathy, No, like so.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Little, like maybe a little, I don't know, like very little.
My kid lies. They're in their twenties, they live about twenties.
They lay about everything like the stupidest stuff, like stuff
you just don't care about. Like they'll be like, hey,
going to work, and I'm like, all right, cool, have
a great day. And then they'll be like with the
mall and I'm like, why would you even lie about
(24:28):
something so stupid? Nobody cares? You're at the mall like
that good time at the mall, and they're just like,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Know, I just want to go, like we care, so
but the genetic part. Were you a compulsive liar?
Speaker 8 (24:45):
No?
Speaker 5 (24:45):
But they'll always it's always like when they go to
the therapy, when they go to therapy, right, and they're like, oh,
I just didn't want you to think this, And it's
like some kind of like narrative or whatever that they
made up in their mind about why they had to
lie and like to blame others about why they had
(25:07):
to lie, And.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Like, okay, you can't cut you can't. Can I ask
you this?
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Though?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Do you wish do you wish your kid wasn't lying
to you?
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Of course, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Okay, but pause, pause, pause, Then why can't you appreciate
the guy who was like that used to be me,
but I'm I worked on myself to fix it. You
should you should appreciate you should appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
No, because I feel like they like do it to
like gain to gain this like sympathy of like almost
like of like, look at me, I'm doing such a
great job because I hurt you so bad and now like,
now looks how great I am at making you feel
(25:58):
bad about this? And I'm like, no, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I'm going to I'm going to defend him on that
because I would so if you're if your daughter was like, listen,
I'm tired of lying. I know nobody gives an ass
that I'm at the mall whatever and went and got
help and fixed it. I wouldn't go like, oh, she's
just doing it to garner sympathy. I would be happy
for her. I'd be happy for you.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Oh great, Then can I stop coming to these therapy things?
And can we stop talking about it? And you're dragging
me into your stories because I want to go to
the mall?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
All right, So it's taken up part of her day.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Maybe it wasn't hard to hear the day.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Maybe it was just a state of mind, you know what.
Maybe it maybe it's just hard for you because you're
swimming in it.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Right now.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
Yeah, it's it's so like consuming and it's like you
go through your mind and it's like, wait, this is
my phone right what? Yeah? Yeah, because and then you
got listen to this like things. It's more lies and
I'm like that dog ain't gonna hunt.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Amen. Amen? All right, all right, very good, Thank you, ma'am.
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
That's analogy, not your manicure. Isn't it more of a metaphor? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:34):
You know what I can I can give you therapy
on figuring those out.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
What do I do with her?
Speaker 4 (27:43):
I think she should stick with the therapy. Yeah, because
this situation is not resolved.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
No, but that's why I don't want that guy who called,
who I thought was very very I don't want to
say brave, but was great for calling.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, and for people to go screw him. He's just
looking for her.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
I'm sure he deals with that a lot. Not for me, no, no, no,
but I'm sure everybody. I'm sure he probably gets that.
He gets that reaction. He hung up, and I called
him an inspiration.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, all right, I called her or but I still
like her. She listens, I like all listeners. All right.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
This this, this is the roll of the dice for
this next call, because now they have to pick a side.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
No, yes, there's the caller A, and now call her
B and here comes see, Well what is C We're
about to find out?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yep, all right, watching the lie about their name? Hi,
Elliet the morning.
Speaker 10 (28:35):
I'm not gonna lie about my name. My name is
Vincent from Charlestown.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yes, I'm pretty often.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
So.
Speaker 10 (28:43):
I I grew up kind of watching my dad lie
about certain things, and I saw that he could get
away with it. So at a younger age, I started
to And I remember lying for the first time, and
I was probably about four or five years old, and
(29:03):
in my lie, I actually lied about stealing something from Walmart.
Well years ago by I struggled with drug addiction and
alcohol addiction for about eight to nine years from the
time I was about sixteen seventeen and so until I
got sober a little bit over two years ago. Right,
(29:26):
But when I went through rehabilitation and rehab and all
the therapy that I've gone through, I've realized that, you know,
my lie was like almost second nature to me because
of my addiction. And I originally really only started compulsivelying
(29:48):
because of the personal issues I was dealing with and
through the time being you know, the rehab thing, you know,
made me realize that a lot more and you know
how to correctly manage it and realize that it was
just like a really bad character defect.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Sure, and listen, I get I feel like I get
the the like. Listen, I have I have a lot
of friends that have gone through rehab also, right, and
you I feel like you do learn from them that
they lied a lot, whether it was to cover their addiction,
to cover how bad their addiction was, uh, to cover
a lot of things, right, so so that not the
(30:28):
line became a result of how bad the addiction was.
But going back to what you said, the the the
like from your dad that that's a learned behavior, right,
Seeing your dad be quote successful at line, that just
became a learned behavior.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
That's not a genetic behavior. Right.
Speaker 10 (30:47):
I would agree with that, because I mean, I don't
I don't think I think in it in a sense.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
With him, it was a.
Speaker 10 (30:56):
It was always out of like just him having an
extreme hopefulness of being able to do the things that
he lied about. And I mean it was it was weird.
Speaker 9 (31:09):
It was different with the with.
Speaker 10 (31:11):
The previous caller with with yours most of at least
me personally. You know, it's not I like to share
my story, whether it's about the addiction issues or my
mental health issues, just because it does help other people.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Sure, it's it's not.
Speaker 10 (31:32):
It's not about you know, the person who is who
is speaking about you know, I just want to have
the sympathy from other people, you know, because then you're
you're more looking at like a victim mentality of I
just want people to feel bad for me instead of
I want people to get help because I was able
to get help.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Sure, I understand that. And you said you've been you've
been clean for two years.
Speaker 10 (31:57):
Yeah, it was two years on Valentine's.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
David Dude, good for you. Congratulations, that's awesome.
Speaker 10 (32:03):
Thanks man. I love listening to you guys, calling as
much as I can. You guys are great. Love to class.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I love you too, that's honest.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Oh you're a lie detector?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
The Oh I'm good at that?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Do you think so?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
No, I'm pretty gullible.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Or any one of the calls on hold a doctor
the no, Okay, I mean they know there's one here
that would have been nice to put on a lot
of different perspectives we've heard.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
But you know, you know what's weird? Like that guy
said he remembers his first line. Do you remember the
first lie you told.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
As a kid? I mean, listen, everybody lied as a kid.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Of course, I.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Couldn't tell you the first lie I ever told. I
also can't tell you the most recent one I ever told.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Do they haven't lied today yet?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Intentionally?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
How did you lie unintentionally?
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Well, I feel like I misspoke earlier where I thought
I said yes, but I said no and then said no.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
But yeah, it's just stupid.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
So yeah, no, I have a lie today, did I?
I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Did you lie yesterday?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
No? What am I lying about?
Speaker 4 (33:19):
Well, Diane's done those reports. How many lies a person
tells each day?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, but I don't If I did, it wasn't knowingly,
it wasn't compulsively.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Did it happened?
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Maybe hopek did have a greater effect on you than
you realize.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, maybe I'm all solid. Maybe I'm all solid.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Well that's a lie.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
No, that that that is heafinitly a lie. I was
one hundred percent liquid this morning,
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