EITM interviews Sean Burch

EITM interviews Sean Burch

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sean Burch has a brand new documentary. It's called Kings
of the Forest.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
He also has a brand new book, Sweat Working, The
Mastery Guide to revolutionizing your life and professional relationships through wellness.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Please welcome our friend, mister Shawn Birch.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Hello, sir, Hello. I love when you come in, but
you also make me very mad.

Speaker 4 (00:22):
Thank you. No, you know what I get.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
I get very angry. I get very angry. No because
I'm I'm just I'm envious. That's my problem.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm envious because I always and we always get into
this conversation where I love that you've been on top
of Everest. I'm obsessed with wanting to just see the
top of Everest. And then every time you come in,
I'm like, I could be like Sean, e but the
but but you've done that, and I love that. And
it's not just that it's all the lifestyle and everything.

(00:50):
I get very envious of it. But I love that
you do all the things that you do.

Speaker 5 (00:55):
Yeah, I mean it's nice not to go on in
expeditions and not having to shower for thirty forty fifty days.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
I enjoy that as well.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
By the way, that's the one part that I could
get done. Yeah, I just figured out you gravitate towards
that part of that. That's why I mentioned it. Wait,
so wait a minute, like when you go do well,
no to Elliott will be stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
There's no showers up on the mountains. You're not doing
any of that.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah, no, no, I I.

Speaker 5 (01:18):
Kind of That's part of the expedition that I enjoy
the most. It's really simplistic, Right, you have mountains to climb,
and that's the goal. You don't have to worry about
your mortgage payments, you don't have to worry about your phone,
you don't have to worry about anything else. You just
worry about the goal at hand, whatever mountain that day
I was, you know, choosing to climb. And then on
long expeditions, you know you just everesus right in front

(01:38):
of you. You just sit there and every day I
would just meditate on, okay, just get to the top.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
Get to the top, you know, safely and back.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
What's the long What is the longest expedition you've done?

Speaker 5 (01:47):
The longest one I've I've done is was probably crossing
the Pall. I did it and that was forty nine
days and.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
You went fifty days without it.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
But when I was on the now Geo show, I
think I didn't. I think I did sixty nine days.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Oh did you really that was the I did a
Rod show? Right?

Speaker 4 (02:04):
No, it was.

Speaker 5 (02:04):
It was Ultimate Survival Alaska. They took us around Alaska,
competing against each oe like I Navy seals and that's
right Native Alaskans.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
And that was sixty nine days with happening.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, and no brushing your teeth.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
No, I brushed my teeth.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Oh that please, money and civil I've scrubbed.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
My nuts in a month, but I'm brushing my teeth.
But wait, you know what, so I was reading your book.
I was reading your book. First of all, it took
me about an hour to get through the title. So
the that part was good. No, no, But did we
know this or do I just not?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Remember?

Speaker 3 (02:38):
You didn't start climbing until you were in your late twenties. Yeah, yeah,
like you didn't climb your first mount until you were
twenty nine.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
Twenty nine? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Is that your late start, very late start.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:47):
I mean I I'd always wanted to climb, but then
you know, there's not too many high helsitude peaks in Virginia,
so I was.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
I was.

Speaker 5 (02:54):
It was kind of a goal I had set for myself.
And then suddenly, you know, I had a relation, really
special relationship with my grandfather. When he passed away, he
was kind of like, you know, you got to live
your life and do everything you've always wanted to do.
And that kind of hit it home to me when
he died that you know, he's right, I got to
start doing these things. So I just said, you know
what I'm going to try to I'm going to go
climb everest and I'm going to figure out how to

(03:14):
do it. And I started climbing smaller peaks and I
found out that I was really good at it. I
was already teaching fitness right, so I was already in shape.
So I was working out every single day, four hours
on end, and then when I got to high altitude,
I just really found that I excelled at it and
then just kind of steamrolled from there.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
So was it the is that what got you to
Because you're right, and you do mention that that that
your grandfather had said you got to go live with life,
like go live life and the but and like you said,
you were already working out.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
You were a fitness guy and all that.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, But was the thing that got you to to
being a mountaineer?

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Was it just Everest? Was that it?

Speaker 4 (03:49):
No?

Speaker 5 (03:49):
No, It's just I used to read books on their
hardship and what they went through, and I I needed that.
I thought I was soft, and I thought that in
order for me to go row as a as an individual,
I need to put myself through the uh strenuous, let's say,
types of activities such as mountaineering, that I would learn

(04:10):
more about myself. And I've always wont I always liked hiking. Again,
I wasn't a climber, so when I started mountaineering, I
was like, Oh, I really like this and then it
just again, it just kind of steamrolled from there, and
the more I got on the mountains, the more I
just found that that's where I felt at home the most.
Because you're afraid of heights, yes, very much so.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
But you'll sleep.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
You've told us stories in the past where you'll sleep
on like a cliff or like a ledge and a
sleeping bag where it's six inches and you're going you're
going down.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:38):
Mostly when I'm climbing, you don't really, I don't sleep. Try,
I try more stable when I'm climbing.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:44):
I mean there's a couple photos from my altitude pks
that I've done that are just like right on the edge.

Speaker 4 (04:49):
I just don't look down.

Speaker 5 (04:49):
I just look my camera and take a picture, but
I don't look at it, you know.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
But what do you do?

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Like the one the one image that comes to mind,
not that you you've done, but like just being afraid
of heights is I feel like everybody has seen the
picture of that ladder on Everest where you walk across
the ladder, and I mean, I have no idea what
that drop is like, Like, I don't know that I'm
afraid of heights, but I have this thing where if

(05:16):
I'm up high on something, I want to jump off
of it. I don't know what that's called, and I
obviously never would, but I would never be able to
walk across that ladder. Like that's what's preventing me, honestly
from Everest.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
I would never be able to do. If you're afraid
of heights, how do you walk across that ladder?

Speaker 5 (05:33):
That's a great point, I mean that's the really I
was thinking, how when I got to the first big
cravross that I was crossing.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
I was like, oh my god, I look down. I
was like, how am I going to do this?

Speaker 5 (05:43):
I have to do it seven eight times up and down,
and I just said, hey, you know what, I've got
to go.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
I've got to do it. I've got to do it.
So I just didn't look down.

Speaker 5 (05:52):
And you know, and I have some film and stuff
like that from some of my last films. I just
put the video camera down, but I wasn't looking I
was just looking straight across. I never looked down because
I thought, like, you know, I like probably like you,
I just I would freak out.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Right, But you don't have to look down.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
But you you know, you're on a ladder with yeah, yeah,
thousands of feet beneath you, Like you don't.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
You can look wherever you want, you know what's there.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
Be completely present. That's how you do it.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Hey, So get me to get me to the book.
I remember hyper fitness was the was the last one.
So sweat working and you go through like all of
these these these disciplines to have in order to network,
but through different different ways of getting that done.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
Correct. Yeah. I didn't come up with the name sweat working.

Speaker 5 (06:42):
I was actually reading an article a couple of years ago,
and I think it was in Men's Health about you know, oh,
this is how you work. You know you work, how
you network is you exercise together and we call it sweatwork.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
And I was like, well, I've been doing this for
twenty years. So I looked it up.

Speaker 5 (06:56):
I did research, and I was like, there was not
a single book about it. So I started writing the
book about how do you go about doing that? You know,
if you're an HR executive, if you're you want to
work for you with your team, how do you how
do you go about doing every single little thing? And
that's what I started to do is just start outlining
it so anybody can implement this into their company and
also for themselves, you know, start exercising.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
Do people like from now now that the book is out,
do people like our companies? Because in the book you
even talk about like, hey, reach out to us. Are
companies starting to do that where it's like let's find
ways to incorporate sweat working instead of networking?

Speaker 5 (07:34):
Yeah, it's out there with with bigger companies, it's out there,
but I want to do it for all companies, right
as kind of a way to say, hey, this is
a normal thing that you do.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
It's like everyone goes to conferences and things like that.

Speaker 5 (07:46):
I've been to hundreds of those things doing speeches, and
a lot of those times they walk around like their's zombies.
They're just done with it, you know, the happy hour
and stuff. I'm trying to make it more interesting, kind
of a way to say, hey, let's do movement instead.
So yeah, I want to implement into all companies, not
just larger companies. So that's why I give that outline
of how to do go about.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
But what's the easy way to get started.

Speaker 5 (08:07):
To get started in sweat working? Yeah, exactly, buy the book.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
I tell you, I tell you, I'll tell you how
to do it. That's why I don't have to answer you.
I'll give you the link.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
No, no, But what I'm saying is I could see
somebody going like in theory, great idea, great idea.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
In in in implementation, implementing it not so easy to do.

Speaker 5 (08:32):
Yeah, that's why in the book, I you know, I
literally outline it. Talk to you, Here's how do you
do when you pitch it to your bosses? Right, here's
what to say, here's the benefits of doing that, and
then from there here's your first session. Here's what I
would recommend you in, like a walking session, or you know,
if you're at a conference, maybe do a session at
a museum, but do something active. I find that connections

(08:54):
are much more meaningful when you do that, not at
a at a at a happy hour where thirty or
forty minutes you've had three or four drinks and you
just you know, you forget the person and you forget
what do you even talk about here? Is I have
found the most meaningful relationships on the mountains and in
fitness classes, right bar none. So that's what I'm trying

(09:14):
to do with with this with the book.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
And then the other thing.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
One of the other things you talk about the book
is that everybody needs to have a moral code. Yeah,
it has a moral code, but you should write it down.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yeah do you do that and stick to it? Well?

Speaker 5 (09:29):
I know it by you know, my moral code is
very deep and everything I do, so I don't need
to write it down anymore. But that's one of my things,
is I is everyone needs a moral code, and if
you don't have it, because I've asked people that, you know,
when I've done leadership classes and work with executives like,
what's your moral code? And it kind of startles them.
It's almost like, you know, the same thing as what

(09:50):
are your goals? You just saw personal goals for five
or ten years out. It's the same thing. They go,
I never really thought about it. We'll find that moral
code and stick to it no matter what.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
And you say, read it every like when you first
do it, write it down and just keep updating it
and add to it and make it a living document
and then make sure you read it and make sure
you remember it.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
And if you have to do it every day.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
Until you like you're you and you remember it or
add something to it, but that you know. But but
it gets back to the same thing, like moral code,
Like I think I'm a halfway decent person, like okay,
but I wouldn't even know what to write down.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
Yeah, well see there you go. You don't know. That's
what you said.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
What are you going to do years I sit in
this goddamn chair.

Speaker 5 (10:33):
Yeah I know, but you have goals. I'm sure personal goals.
You have to dig deeper than that. You know, you're
on this earth for a certain amount of time. You
stress that, you really really stress that, especially now, especially
I mean, you travel around the world and you see
how the world plays out within different countries, and you
really have to have this strict moral.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
Code and stick to it.

Speaker 5 (10:53):
Because the biggest thing that bothers me is this authenticity
I talk about in the book. I call genuineness, not authenticity,
because everyone throws that I'm so authentic or what we're
posting is so authentic. It's so much it's so much
overused that authenticity is done. So my thing is start
with that moral code with yourself and then stick with that.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
What was the first thing you wrote down when you
when you when you were creating your own moral code,
or like you said, I know my moral code like
if it were if it were, if it were a pyramid.
What is the big one at the base?

Speaker 5 (11:25):
Resilience, perseverance, honesty, Right, my word's my word. Those are
major components to my thing. If I say I'm going
to do something, I'll do it. I don't like to quit.
So that's a big thing that's helped me on expeditions.
If I set myself a goal, I won't stop until
it's done, no matter what. I don't you know, the
pain or the hardship that goes through it, and that

(11:46):
kind of drives that.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, but don't you also have to Now I'm going
to talk you out of your moral code.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
No, no, but but but also you have to be smart.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
I'm assuming you have found yourself in situations on a
mountain or wherever it is, and you're like, I don't
want to quit, but I'm also gonna die if I
keep going.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, I've turned around. Yeah, but still it kills you.

Speaker 5 (12:06):
I start, and when you start an expedition, whatever it is,
or any goal, you have to believe one hundred percent
that you will complete the goal. So every expedition I start,
every mountain, I climb for that particular day while I'm
doing first as since I think I'm going to reach
that top. But of course as you go things change,
weather changes, and then you reevaluate. Am I sticking to

(12:28):
my moral code if I turn around?

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Yes? Because if I don't, I'm probably going to die.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Sure.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
Yeah, but if I.

Speaker 5 (12:33):
Try my best, if I'm working my hardest, then outside forces,
let's say weather, right, then I can live with that.
I just can't live with me quitting, quitting or going average.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
I don't want to.

Speaker 5 (12:45):
Life is too important. Never be average. Never be average.
I'm always trying to learn to be a better person
every single day.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
And the other thing like you talk about like you
only like life is you only have one life and
that's it. And you do talk about the the the
how you use time right and like no, because we
have that conversation all the time. Is like it's time's
all the same. It's just how do you manage it?
But you almost go like a step further than that
of everybody makes an excuse, but you find you make time.

Speaker 5 (13:18):
Correct, I've many many people. I just don't have the time.
So I'm okay, let's allocate that time. How do you
many hours in the day?

Speaker 4 (13:25):
Okay? What means that? You know?

Speaker 5 (13:26):
What means something to you? Okay, so you just you
have to allocate it.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
You know.

Speaker 5 (13:30):
That's why with sweatwork, and I'm trying to like, well,
if we get companies forces the wellness on you, forces
the movement, then you will see the benefits of it,
and then from there you can take it on and
have it involve evolve in your own life and improve
your own life. But it's this that initial part of
getting you to exercise, getting you to move, to see
those benefits of it, but you've got to have back

(13:51):
to the time. You've got to have You've got to
find the time because everyone has the same twenty four hours, right,
And I've never said I've never heard somebody say, you know,
I've got it's.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
Got too much time every single day.

Speaker 5 (14:02):
I've never heard that, So it's like, yes, I know,
I know the fact, but find the time whatever it is.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Do you ever have a day though, where you just
lay on the couch and eat Chinese food?

Speaker 5 (14:11):
I have a day is where I relax, but I
don't sit on the I mean yeah, I mean I can.
I don't take a day off from exercising. No, never, never.
If I can, if I can do it, if I'm traveling,
then yeah, but I'll still walk that night, or I'll
walk an hour.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
You walk after every after every meal? I do part walk?

Speaker 3 (14:30):
No, but you yeah, no, but you say that like
after every meal you walk?

Speaker 5 (14:36):
Yeah, I mean if you if you live in my town,
you'll see me walking every day.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
So that's me.

Speaker 5 (14:44):
I'm sure people will make fun of it because it's
like this guy's out there no matter what.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yeah, but I love it.

Speaker 5 (14:49):
It makes you feel good, makes you know, helps with digestion,
sets the tongue.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Will you explain something in the book which I thought
was really good, rich cars.

Speaker 5 (14:57):
Will you explain that, Yeah, it's just having Uh, it's
it's it's a kind of a way to look if
you don't have that moral code, to use rich cars
as a component of that.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
So go through those things.

Speaker 5 (15:09):
It's just a way to remember it, you know, and uh,
and then try to implement those things into your life. Again,
if you don't have the moral code, I give you
a guidance for you to find that moral code, whatever
that is.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Right.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
The then a couple of other things that I learned
in the By the way, I'm just dunkin Donuts.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Just got here. Do you want a donut?

Speaker 4 (15:30):
I'm okay.

Speaker 5 (15:30):
When's the last time you had a donut?

Speaker 1 (15:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
That's a good question.

Speaker 5 (15:36):
Thirty thirty thirty years donut in thirty years.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
Thirty years now. I don't eat desserts usually, yeah, and I.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Do actually news no, no, no, these are breakfast.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
Okay, these are breakfast.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
No.

Speaker 5 (15:49):
I do. On my birthday and on my son's birthday.
Because you met Hans a couple of years ago, we
each we get a cake and we each we split it.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
He eats half of it night fast. No, no, we each.

Speaker 5 (16:03):
Eat half a cake and then we feel terrible for
the rest of the night.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
But yeah, it's like a tradition.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
The but you have it, you you literally have not
had it.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
I mean, I think the only thing I was in
I think I was in Norway in ninety six. Was
the last time I had it. I'm trying to think. Yeah,
I think so. When I started Mountain.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Norway of ninety six was the last.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
Arctic circle that was on a boat and I said,
here's the time. I don't remember the.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
The but is it like that's donuts right, which, by.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
The way, you have no idea what you're missing?

Speaker 4 (16:35):
No I do.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
No, you don't know. You don't you don't the but like,
will you eat junk food at all?

Speaker 3 (16:42):
No?

Speaker 4 (16:42):
I try not.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Oh my god, what's what?

Speaker 4 (16:44):
Yeah? Like, what's your junk food? On my with salt? Well,
you know, I eat the peanut butter, right, I don't
see that.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Junk food like like like an animal, I do.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
I eat a lot of peanut butter. But on the
birthday stuff, I will pizza eating pizza. My son bides
a pizza. He eats a pizza. That's you know, once
a year, Yeah, once or twice a year pizza. Oh
my god, it's so freaking it's so good. Right, it's
that crack. Yeah, no crack, but this is cracked pretty

(17:17):
damn good.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Wait, so you eat you eat a pizza twice a year?

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Yeah, whole pizza?

Speaker 1 (17:22):
I was.

Speaker 5 (17:23):
I mean, I gave you two or three? I mean,
it's it's it is bottomless. Oh yeah, so good.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
I was just complaining the other day that it had
been a week since I had had pizza.

Speaker 4 (17:33):
Para Jones and you're twitching. You knew something was wrong. Pizza.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
That's part of my moral code. Yeah, I happy to
write it.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
Write it down, Write that down.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Now that's your pyramid. Empathy. Oh that's the base. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
On top of that is like empathy and try not
to lie that much, that much.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
But now, you weren't always like that. You weren't always
like that, No.

Speaker 5 (18:03):
No, you know, you know, being the gen X generation,
I think I was always searching growing up, searching for
something what I didn't know, but always, you know.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
There was you tell a story in the book, Well, actually,
you know what. Before we get to that, there's a
couple of things that came out of the book about
you personally that I didn't know you're shy.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Oh yeah, really shy.

Speaker 5 (18:25):
If I get in front of if i'm it's like
a presentation in front of people, I can be myself.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
But normally, yeah, I'm not.

Speaker 5 (18:32):
I'm not really open with people about, you know, things,
because I don't think they understand. If I tell them
a story about again going to conference, right something happy
are about, you know, an expedition, They're like, oh, that
sounds interesting, you know, they just have no clue of
what what it's like. So I don't bother even talking
about it. So I kind of kind of laid back
and don't even talk about it all or anything.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
No, but I'm like, and I get from from your side, like, listen,
I don't know what it would be like to be
on an expedition, but it doesn't mean it's not fascinating.
I would love to hear about it, So it doesn't
mean that it's not fascinating to know.

Speaker 5 (19:07):
I know you you like it, so I can I
can feel that. But when I go to a conference
and there's some guy going, oh, really, you time to
first ascent?

Speaker 4 (19:16):
What's that?

Speaker 5 (19:17):
As soon as I say I'm like, okay, you know
they and it's fine. I'm not asking him to know it,
but I'm thinking, like, okay, this is gonna be you
know, although it sounds exciting, sounds dangerous, you know, right, why
do you do it?

Speaker 4 (19:28):
That kind of stuff?

Speaker 3 (19:28):
But when you talk about that, you say that not
only are you shy, but you're also hesitant to make
new friends.

Speaker 4 (19:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. I Trust is a big
thing with me.

Speaker 5 (19:38):
It's part of my moral code, and I don't just
for I think part of part of my job.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
I don't trust a lot of people.

Speaker 5 (19:45):
I've just been disappointed so many times with their word right, yeah,
we're gonna do this or we're gonna do that, and
then they don't follow through.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
Get very disappointed.

Speaker 5 (19:54):
So a lack of trust I much rather have someone
doesn't want to do it, to say hey, I don't
I'm not gonna to do this, right, I'm not going
to do that. I can take that, But there's ghosting
stuff and all that kind of I just eats me
up inside.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
So I just don't trust people.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
Because I wondered if it was, like when I first
read that is, whether it was because of who you are,
where you don't. You don't the trusting I get because
to trust somebody literally is to put your life in
their hands. The the like, if Diane does something, is

(20:30):
it gonna piss me off? Can we get in trouble
with the FCC? Yeah, we can do all of that,
but I'm not going to fall to my death. Like
when you try whatever your Diane is, you could die.

Speaker 5 (20:40):
Yep, No, you're exactly right. That's why I do stuff
sol Yeah, you know it. I mean, that's it was.
I was thinking, well, if I'm roped to somebody, I
got to put my trust in their hands, so if
they fall off or they slip, then I can go
down with them if I don't blame them. So I'm thinking, oh,
forget it. I'd rather just do it myself. So if
I have no regrets, if I go in here, if
I die, it's my own fault. But yeah, you hit

(21:02):
it right in the nail right now.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Do you also feel that going the other way is
somebody's putting that much trust in you and you don't
want that burden.

Speaker 5 (21:10):
No, if I'm guiding somebody, I've guided people on some
high outside. I enjoy that because it's I'm seeing them
reach their goals and seeing them do things that they've
never done before. I get more excitement about that.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Of watching them them.

Speaker 5 (21:25):
Yeah, I love that because they just think I didn't
think I could do it and they're and they're doing it.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
You know.

Speaker 5 (21:30):
That really excites me because then they're they realize what
they're capable of doing in life, and this is hopefully
just to start for them. And climbing a mountain or
climbing a high peak is a good way to start
that of what you're capable of doing.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
So does it bother you that every time I talk
to I tell you we're going to go climb together.

Speaker 5 (21:46):
And I know that's a good segment, right in that segment,
because yes, exactly right, we need to get you on
a peak. And I talked to tell her about that
or el I was like, we got to talk about,
you know, doing the shaft but Manchaster or something like that.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
The where is that?

Speaker 5 (22:03):
That's in California. It's a volcano. It's about of fourteen thousand,
but it has snow, has make a good terrain where
you can put on crampons, so you can learn a
lot about mountaineering. But it's not to me too dangerous,
even though to you I didn't send the link. Someone
did die on there September September, some tech bro died, so,

(22:26):
which is very unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Right, But the no, no, But but if I told you,
I was like, I would love to do it.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
I really would. I just don't.

Speaker 5 (22:35):
I know perfect I don't have the time. Yes, it's
not on my moral code list. You've got to get
you on a peak.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
You know. I've been working on this for what I
think fourteen years. Fourteen years, yes, and it's gonna happen.
Getting me there.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
We're getting there, chipping away now, chipping away. Here's the
other thing that I want to bring up, and don't
beat don't be mad at me.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Well, it's in the book. You can't be mad at me.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
You talk about a real dark part of your life
which I don't think you'd ever shared with us. About
a long four years you were going through a nasty
separation and a nasty divorce. Yeah, you felt like you
would you had failed, and you took a job at
a wellness resort in China, in China, and how did

(23:21):
you how did you end up going to China?

Speaker 5 (23:23):
They contacted me. They had a wellness director that I
had quit. I should have contacted him first. He was
based in Hong Kong and they asked me if I
wanted to think about doing the position. And at that
time I was were going through a tough time with
my my ex.

Speaker 4 (23:39):
Wife, and I just kind of said, oh, this could
be great.

Speaker 5 (23:42):
You know, while this director, I could teach people about
fitness because they would look at they would look a
dumbbells and be like, oh, you know, like they didn't
know what it was, and a bosue ball they would
be like, oh, foreign to me. So I took the
job and then went over to it's called Mission Hills
Resort and just outside Hong Kong about hour and a
half and stayed there for about a year. And uh,
it was so painful, you know, because I left my

(24:04):
son and I kind of just got Instead of facing it,
I just wanted to separate myself from it and thought
that would help, but it only made it worse, made
it real bad.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
You talk about and I can't even imagine this.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
You talk about you had there was some coworker there
that that that you were friendly with, and you guys
would just sit there and just get hammered every.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Night, every night every but you get drunk every night
every night.

Speaker 5 (24:28):
We couldn't wait, and and we knew it was bad,
but we were just it was just it was killing me.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
But it was like my only solace was that, you know.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
And then next day I'd wake up, I'd work out
still for a couple hours, I would train people, and
that night I was just like, oh my god, and
I was like, you know, if I keep doing this,
I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna die.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
And you knew it.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
It was even imagine you yeah drinking.

Speaker 5 (24:52):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it was. It was real bad,
real bad. There's nothing there's nothing worse feeling. I'm sure
people out there know he's waking up and not can't
caring about the day, you know, not caring if you
get out of bed.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
Or not caring if you wake you know what happens
to you. It was worse. I just didn't care.

Speaker 5 (25:09):
And then I kind of again, as always, I kind
of gravitate towards my son, thinking like this is I'm
not being a father, I'm just being a right. I'm
just disappointing him and I'm disappointing myself. I need to
get back there. I need to be the father I
know I need to be for him. And then I
got injured in China on riting on these they have
these steep stairs and they're really I guess because I

(25:31):
guess they have a little more little feet or something.
I don't know, the real skinny stares. And I tripped
and hit my head and had to go to the
hospital and got stitches, and then I got I came
back and then a month later I just said I'm done.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
I'm done.

Speaker 5 (25:45):
And my boss I was working with this she was God,
she was vindictive and oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
What not to was horribly toped.

Speaker 5 (25:53):
Oh my gosh, I've never seen someone that toxic in
my life. But uh yeah, it was awful. And that
was one of the reasons why, because she just didn't care,
and she would she'd tells stories about people. I mean,
it's like this petty stuff. I'm like, what am I
doing here?

Speaker 1 (26:09):
I love gossip.

Speaker 5 (26:11):
So I was like, I got to get back, you know,
I got to get back to myself. So luckily enough
I got out of there and and time, because if
I stayed there for another year, I probably wouldn't have
I wouldn't have come out of it.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
No, and you would have been drinking the whole Oh.

Speaker 4 (26:23):
My god, Yeah, yeah, it was, it was. It was bad.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Also, you talk about how so then then fast forward
a little bit, you talk about how you get into
hiking and and and obviously still you're working out. You
are you, You are a good person. Fitness is important.
Being a good person is important. But then you start
talking about climbing and starting to to climb mountains, and

(26:48):
you talk about how that's where you feel such peace
and such comfort, and you start talking about just being
there on the silence of the mountains when you're and
like you may you do a lot of whether it's
solo climbs or first ascent climes where you're you're climate
peaks and mountains that nobody's ever been on before, or
you'll just do it by yourself and you're up there

(27:09):
and I don't know how long that takes. Is it
like when you lay down at night, or if it's
at night, like if you get up early and it's
the middle of the night, if you will and you're
going to push yourself to summit, is it just dead silent?

Speaker 4 (27:22):
Well?

Speaker 5 (27:22):
Yeah, the weather, your wind, Yeah, if there's no wind,
Oh my gosh, it's that's why I love nature. You know,
it's just because it doesn't judge, does you. Everyone in
society judges you everyone everyone you meet. As soon as
you meet somebody new, they judge you on who you are,
possibly how you look and all that tough your appearance.
But when you're in the mountains, it's just nature and

(27:43):
it's just there. And I love that because it doesn't
judge you and you can just take it all in.
It's for what it is, and it's it's and it's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
It's well, beautiful was the word I was going to use.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
When you're up there, like we're well, I mean, you're
a warranton, but like I'm a total city kid. So
like stars, you don't see a lot of.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
When you're on a mountain. Is it Is it crazy?

Speaker 4 (28:06):
It's crazy.

Speaker 5 (28:07):
When I was in my last expedition in Argentina, i'd
go out there at night. It was freezing, but I'd
still I'd wrap myself up and go out there and
just stare at the stars. It was like they're they're right,
You're right on you, They're right on you. I remember
when I climbed my eight thousand meter peaks, and stuff
like that. It feels like you can go out there
and touch it. It's so bright. I still every night
when I walk, I walk, I look at the stars.

(28:28):
I was looking at them last night. I'll send pictures
to like my mother and stuff like that, like here,
look at the stars. Look at these satellites go across.
It's oh, it's incredible. I never it never gets old
to me.

Speaker 4 (28:39):
Never love it.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
What was the first mountain you climb?

Speaker 5 (28:44):
First mountain? I climbed uh with Shasta. I climbed it
with my cousin, right, And that's the one we're gonna do.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
Yes, yes, yeah, we.

Speaker 5 (28:52):
Did it without that's a really good story. We did
it without crampons, and we didn't know the route went up.
We went up the side of the face and we
I had one ice axe. We had trekking poles that
we narrowed down and we're just like climbing up there
and we had no clue what we're doing. As we're
coming down, people were like, did you see those idiots
that were on the mountain And we're like, hey, they're
talking about us.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
We need to reach the summit.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
And we camped out at you know, at twelve thousand
feet and we're freezing, we're hypoxic, you know, headaches and
stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
But dude, you think I'm climbing there? We'll do it.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
The I didn't know what I was doing.

Speaker 5 (29:28):
I was just like, oh, yeah, well, I climbed from
the bottom to the summit in like, you know, ten
hours that whole day we you know, I didn't know
if you're not supposed to do that.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
I was just kind of figuring it out.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
How long would it take me? How long we do it?

Speaker 4 (29:41):
We do it day and a half and a half.

Speaker 5 (29:44):
Yeah, we'll start and then we'll camp at I think
it's called camp helling at ten thousand feet.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
Stay the night there, make sure you're feeling good next I.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Don't want to be hypoxy.

Speaker 4 (29:53):
No, you want to be hypoxic.

Speaker 5 (29:54):
We'll go up to summit, come back down, come back
to camp, and then if you feel good, we'll walk
back down or spend a.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Night extra day.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, because I probably won't feel good.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
Maybe No, No, I I had the plan. I have
the plan.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Good because he doesn't. Well, I know that. Hey.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
You know like sometimes like outside of hotels or like restaurants,
they have like that little stand where you like put
cigarette butts.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Into Do they have those on the mountain like on
the way up? I don't.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
I don't want to mess with nature, but I am
going to smoke all the way up and down.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
We'll get you a few, but we'll bring We'll bring
a fruit portable ones.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
You know.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Well, they don't need sherpas on Shaska.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
No.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
No, he's carrying my cigarettes.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, that.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Big back, that's my guy, Marlboro Sherpa. Yeah, that's who
i'd bring along. When did you climb? When did you climb?
I'm she should she sha pangmagma?

Speaker 4 (30:50):
Yeah, when did you climb that two thousand and.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
One fourteenth highest mountain in the world?

Speaker 4 (30:56):
Yep?

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Is that the only time you wrote a note where
you felt like you were gonna die? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (31:05):
That was a tough expedition.

Speaker 5 (31:07):
I was with another climber guy named Dan missouris one
of the best American climbers we have, and uh, it
just hitting me on the mountain. We didn't see anybody
for like three days and we were climbing up towards
the summer. It was about two forty five and that's
like usually they turnaround time, so it was really windy.
I was looking at him and we're just like, you know,
He's like, is it worth it?

Speaker 4 (31:26):
And I go, it's worth it. And then we didn't
talk for the next six hours and we just climbed.

Speaker 5 (31:30):
We got up there about eight thirty nine o'clock at night,
and by that time we were already our lungs were
fun out with food because every time we'd breathe the
goo google it would gurgle, so we knew we were dying.
So we got up there, took some photos and then uh.
And then in the snowstorm, got back down to high
Camp and we should have gone kept going down, but

(31:51):
we were so tired, so we got water and hydrated
and then we're lucky enough to get back down the
next day. But that's when I started to get my
black fingers. Was that expedition. And I came back down
my finger my tops of my fingers were all black, right,
and frostbite.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
But in the in the book, you talk about like
you wrote out your final words.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah, I always do that before you know, so I
was writing.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
You.

Speaker 5 (32:14):
So when I go to Shasta, I have to write
my final words. No, no, no, I did that on
Shishi and Pangmatic. I always keep journals and stuff like that.
So this was my first eight thousand meter peak, so
I didn't know what to expect. There are not a
lot of people on the mountain. Uh So, again it
was still that lack of confidence of like, can I
do this? Can I do this without something intery auction?

(32:34):
And can I get to the top. I'm climbing with
a great climber who's been on K two and so
so I wrote out, you know, if I don't come back,
they at least find that, and you know, give that
to my uh No, I wasn't. I wasn't engaged yet,
but yeah, to give that to my family and things
like that. So I wrote it all out.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
When you when you say you were with this guy
and you didn't see anybody else on the mountain, no,
and you just kind of looked at each other, and
then for the next six hours you didn't speak speak.
Are you like when you when you do an expedition? Obviously,
if you're by yourself, you're not talking.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
I get it.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
But if you're with another climber or a couple of people,
do you prefer it being quiet?

Speaker 4 (33:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (33:11):
I mean at that altitude, it's so tough just to
take a step, so you don't want to waste time
hate you know what?

Speaker 4 (33:17):
You know what not fourteen thousand.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
You'll be fine, but I'm worried about you because I
won't shut up.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
No, that's fine.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
Oh okay, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, No, I'm
sure you have some good stories, so I'll be listening
to that.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
That's fine.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
No. Yeah, he died talking.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
Yeah, he guys talking.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
He died from getting pushed.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
Is there is there a And I know I don't
want to get too far away from like because that
the book isn't your memoir.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
The book is all about you, but that's coming.

Speaker 5 (33:50):
I've been working on that for ten years and that book,
when it comes out, is going to be all the
stories of all my expeditions, me growing up, living in
Northern Virginia with my friends and stuff like that. How
we base life, how we looked at life, and then
from thereative kind of evolves.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Because the book, the book at its court, but the
stories that get interwoven through everything really are very fascinating.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
But like you do talk about the like, if you
get back to the essence of the book, it is
preparing your body, preparing your head, preparing your heart, if
you will, all of the not from a health standpoint,
but from just the kind of person you are. That
whether it's mountaineering or whatever it is, is preparing yourself
to be able to do all of those things as

(34:32):
a healthy, good human being.

Speaker 5 (34:35):
One hundred percent right there. You just said it all.
It's perfect exactly. That's why I wrote the book was
for that reason.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
You know the stories.

Speaker 5 (34:42):
I put in there, a little bit of stories because
I know everyone likes to hear the stories and things
like that, but the main part was to do that,
so it's always for them. How do you better yourself,
become a better person, reach for those goals you've set
for yourself? How do you go about doing that through movement?
Through connection? I mean definitely we've lost connection of course
in society today. I was getting that connection back with
other people and then and the movement in that process

(35:05):
and how that can help you.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
And like there's even a part in there where you
talk about like you're at a conference and you're speaking,
or you've been asked to go to like lunches and stuff,
but not by name, but Leonsis gets a mention in there. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Yeah, when I came back from from Everest.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Right.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
I was invited to Tyson's Corner and a bunch of
high tech guy. I didn't know who they were. I
was just meeting.

Speaker 5 (35:26):
I was with somebody and we had a nice lunch
and stuff like that. But then I started to figure out, oh,
this is how it rolls. Let me look at your
faint on that.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
Yeah, it was. It was eye opening. Is a learning experience.
I don't remember. I don't remember that.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
All right, let me do this.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
Give me a quick break. I haven't even gotten to
the documentary yet, but let me do this. Give me
a quick break. It's Elliott the Morning, more of a
Sean Birch.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Next Elliott in the Morning. Everybody, Sean Birch is with us.
He's got a brand new book out, Sweat Working. They
don't The.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Mastery Guide to Revolutionizing your Life and Professional Relationships through Wellness.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Also new documentary called Kings of the Forests. The documentary
is great.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
That is really really well you just so I don't
mess it up.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
The people the Kings of the fort ROUTI yeah, route
route all right, yeah, because I want to make sure
I get that right.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
The it is a nomadic tribe. It's one hundred and
twenty five people. Yep. Where did you first encounter them?

Speaker 4 (36:29):
Actually through a contact in Nepal.

Speaker 6 (36:32):
He told me, you know, we were working together on
the Icefall Doctors of Everest, and then he said, hey,
there's a group of people that they only talk with me,
and they move every two months unless someone dies, they'll
move the next day and they'll call me. Whenever they're
in a specific area, they'll find it, go to town,
find a phone call, just to stay in touch. He's

(36:53):
he had been in touch with him for like fifteen
years and said, hey, I think there might be something here.
So I started to investigate and said, hey, you know
this is great.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
This Uh.

Speaker 5 (37:00):
They don't have any oral history, they don't have any
written text about their life. They don't take photographs. So
I knew the fact that they're depleting and they're going
to be extinct. That's even more so after I filmed,
so I was like, I want to do an oral
history of the route before they disappear. So I went
out there and spent a couple of days with them

(37:20):
in the field.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
The and they're not a just so we're real clear.
It's not an uncontacted tribe of people. But they are
very and like you said, like they'll go to market
to sell things and to get things, and I understand that,
but they're not they're not a social group.

Speaker 5 (37:39):
No, they like to stick to themselves. I wouldn't even
been allowed in there if it wasn't for Hari, you know.
That's why I kind of dedicate the film to him,
because if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have even
been there in the first place. So they had to
kind of warm up to me, which took a while.
You know, things like the drone that helped. That's when
they're like, oh, this guy is interesting. I too, because

(38:01):
there's no electronics.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
There's no like, nobody's got a phone, nobody's got an iPad, like,
nobody's like there's I don't want to say they have
nothing because they are so happy, like they are very
very happy people. But the two things when you bring
that drone out and they're looking at it, they're looking at.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
It like, dude, what are you doing?

Speaker 5 (38:22):
The first time they've ever seen something like that, So
they're all like, oh my god, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
But also there's some scenes where they're walking by like
they're they're they're moving. They're a nomadic tron and they're
moving and you could tell they walk by the camera
because you get one of these.

Speaker 5 (38:41):
They're checking it out. Yeah for sure, Yeah, for sure.
They like to see themselves, you know, after your videotape them,
they like to see you would show back kind of
like some of them, most of the kids. The kids
like to look at themselves. So that was cool, and
they're grown ups kind of kept it themselves.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
They really you know, and you you you.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
You talk about how, like you just said, you wanted
to do like a history of them before they go extinct,
and you talk about how their society is disappearing, but
also their ideals are disappearing.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
So I think like the society part, I think I get.
What about the ideals part.

Speaker 5 (39:16):
Though, Well, it's just because of so many outside forces
now are coming in. Since I've filmed, they actually have
like a government official that stays with them from what
I've read all the time, and so they have all
these outside forces, so they can't really live the life
I think they really want to live, and they're seeing
it disappear unfortunately for them. And then a couple of

(39:36):
the the younger ones have been kind of whisked away
by townies and things like that. So it hasn't gone
really well from them, especially since even since I filmed.
That's why I'm really glad I filmed. It's only gotten worse.
And I think they again, they said within ten years
they think they'll be extinct or at least separated completely.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
So that band of one hundred and twenty five, if
you will, yeah, they won't. They won't exist as a
band of one hundred and twenty five.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
That's what they say.

Speaker 5 (40:03):
I mean, who knows, but yeah, I mean it's it's
rapidly deterior and I think just because again there's so
much outside people coming in now all the time. They
can't really live their life the way they feel they
want to live it. But they're trying to, you know,
they're still trying to keep They've done it for centuries.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
So like with with outside people coming in, is it
too hard to resist when they see what I don't
I even want to say what modern things look like,
but just the toys or you know what I don't.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
I don't know what to call it. Where they go.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
Maybe better isn't the right word, because they're they're happy people.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, but is it just you at some point you
just can't resist it.

Speaker 5 (40:42):
Yeah, you know, I when I was an I member,
I was in town before I was waiting for the
to to walk out, and uh, the couple of kids
came into town and they trying to get me to
buy them cokes and stuff like that, and I think,
you know, just again the outside things are like okay,
or crackers or.

Speaker 4 (40:59):
Something like that. They're not used to having that right.
They're used to having their with their you know, they
eat monkey. They didn't get into that. I couldn't.

Speaker 5 (41:06):
I was trying to get him to talk about that
they hunt monkey through nets like monkey nets, but they
wouldn't let me. I wanted to go on a hunt
with them, but they was like absolutely not, you're not
going to do this.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
But I was able to.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
They think people wouldn't be able to.

Speaker 5 (41:18):
Yeah, maybe they look down upon them because you're not
supposed to do that with a monkey. But yeah, they're
like they're the only ones that usually they eat monkey.
That's their meat, their may meat.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
So there's there's a there's a one scene in the
in the documentary.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
I mean you've seen a couple of times but the
one one that really sticks out where people from the
family have gone out to I'm assuming to go get
food and maybe I'm wrong, but they come.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Back with like a stack of it's well water, Oh
it's water. Oh okay, I gotcha, but like a huge stack.
I don't even know what you call those things, but there's.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Like a huge stack of like buckets on top of buckets,
on top of buckets on their head.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
I assumed it was some kind of food. But yeah,
I mean it would make sense that it's water.

Speaker 5 (41:59):
Yeah, it's the women go out and get fresh water,
which was They had to walk a long way when
I was when I was with them because it was
way way far away where there's clean water. So they
bring a ton of them and then they carry them
on top of their heads. They just stack them up
as you saw and seeing the film.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
And what is the like you said, they move every
two and a half months or sooner.

Speaker 5 (42:19):
If someone dies, they'll move the next day. Why that's
just part of their their culture, their religion. If someone dies,
they move the very next day. But they move every
two and a half months, and they won't go back
to the same area for like another twenty years. It's
like an environmentalist type of thing. They know, you know,
they use up the resources and then they move and
then they just kind of do like a big circle
around Nepal in certain areas, mostly in the middle of Nepal,

(42:42):
and then come back. They'll call it come back to
around that area about twenty years later. But they just
keep moving and moving and moving. So they set up,
you know, there's temporary shelters and then day two days boom,
they're gone.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
And they said they never fight, they never, they never.
They they if there's an if there's a disagree, everybody
sits down.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
They just figure it out.

Speaker 5 (43:02):
Yeah, it's equal, women and men are equal in their
decisions and things like that. The guy that I was
talking to, he was just the spokesperson, but he was,
you know, the de facto leader. But he really wasn't
the leader, but he was the spokesperson who was willing
to tell me all the traditions and the beliefs of
what they of the royalty of people do you believe?

Speaker 3 (43:19):
Well, let me back up a step, and I don't
I don't mean this to sound negative towards them.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
What do they do all day?

Speaker 4 (43:27):
Sit around? Sound make food?

Speaker 5 (43:29):
Yeah, yeah, it's if you see in the film, it's
becoming kind of dirty if they stay there for what
I was dead been there for about a month and
a half.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
So again, hygiene is not a big thing.

Speaker 5 (43:39):
That's one of the reasons why they're having trouble, right,
it's getting more dirty and bringing outside things in so
it's not as clean sources as well. But yeah, they
just a lot of them just sit around and uh,
you know, like the one thing with the guy playing
with his kids. You know, they're just sitting there eating
bananas and just hang out each day and it's it's
really hot, so they'll hang out and talk with each other,

(44:00):
and then during the day they'll stay in their tents
with their kids and their family, and then they'll come
out at night, whether a cooking rice or something like that.
And they'll go into town periodically, go into town to
trade stuff. Right, they make the woodwork, so going on
and and sell that. From that, they'll get their rice
or whatever, barley or whatever wherever they whatever they need.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
Because some some of the some of the members are
wearing loincloths or or like a like almost like a
not like a bed sheet, but just like sudden they
wrap around and then I'm looking at some of them
like you got slides on, bro, Like that's all right,
Like you're doing all right there.

Speaker 4 (44:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (44:35):
Yeah, they'll take it where they can get it, for sure.
I mean, if someone gives them stuff, they'll take it.
It's not like no I can't. They'll take it if
they're if if someone gives it to them. But they
usually don't buy this thing. The only one only money
they use from their materials that they sell is for
usually just for basic like food and then you know,
for brushing teeth, I guess and the.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Like. When you said like they don't they don't do anything,
like at one point you're trying to like dance with
them or something, and I was like, you can't dance
all day, Like.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
That's not that's not gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (45:04):
Well, that was a special ceremony.

Speaker 5 (45:07):
And first of all, I don't dance, so I was
dancing with them all I was filming them dance.

Speaker 4 (45:13):
I'm God forbidden me dancing with him. Puts on camera.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
No no, no, no, this is the electric slot.

Speaker 4 (45:19):
Yeah yeah no that would that would that would not
be good material to watch.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Did they like your tattoos?

Speaker 4 (45:28):
Yeah? They thought that was interesting.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
I was gonna say, I bet, because I mean, it
doesn't get addressed, but at some point you stick out
a little bit when you're like yeah with them.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
Yeah, they knew I was coming for I had a guy.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
Yeah, but like you you're just you know, like you're
wearing like you got a backpack and you've got like obviously.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
You had a drone, and but your arms are exposed.
And I was thinking, like for the for the younger kids.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Maybe for the adults they wouldn't care, but like for
the younger kids, I would think they would see your
arms and go like that's kind of bad ass or
intrigued by it.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Yeah, I'd intrigued, was probably. Yeah, they're very intrigued.

Speaker 5 (46:05):
They'd follow me around everywhere, of course, and you know
I show that a little bit in the film about
how they're following me around and just you know, making
sounds and stuff like that. Again, they could they would
mimic what I was saying, but they didn't understand what
I was saying.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
What is the other than just capturing their history or
being able to document if they if if within the
next ten years they they don't exist anymore.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
What a horrible thing to say that feels weird to say.

Speaker 4 (46:34):
Yeah, it's sad.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
You know.

Speaker 5 (46:36):
They live a simple life, and that's one of the
things that kind of got gravitated towards it. And it
goes back to our discussion earlier on mountaineering is life
doesn't have to be complicated. We make it complicated. You know,
you go to the store and you want to get yogurt.
You got twenty different yogurts. You only need one, you know.
It just things get complicated and everything there is very simplistic,
and that's unfortunately deteriorating. And so that's why I thought

(47:01):
it was important. I thought I could learn from them,
and I did, of course. On again, life doesn't have
to be that hard.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Just we make it hard on ourselves, I think a
lot of the time.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
And it is.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
But it's funny when you watch the when you watch
the documentary, it seems like it's hard.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Yeah, I mean it's not that that time. It's not
for me, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 5 (47:21):
I mean, people like oh, without their phones and having
to search for food and go out hunting, Yeah for sure.
You know, I don't know if i'd like that twenty
four to seven either. I just like the simplistic aspect
of being in nature, and I think anybody can get
used to it if you're put in that position long enough.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
But yeah, for sure, it's not for it, not for everyone.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
At the end of the at the end of the
document Oh, let me back up, because I wanted to
ask you, so, other than just documenting that there existence
or a little bit of a history, what else, what
else are you hoping to get out of it, other
than just to celebrate them or exposed not exposed sounds
like you're taking advantage of them, but just that these

(48:02):
people existed.

Speaker 5 (48:03):
Yeah, that's my whole thing. Yeah, I mean, I'm not
there to make money. You lose money in documentary filmmaking.
I've I've flust so much money on this. It's it's
the matter of just documenting what I feel is an
important component of life and being on this earth is Hey,
these are a group of people. I want to document
them before they're before they're gone. I feel it's important,

(48:23):
and some other people may not feel that way.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
I do.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
I feel that's important. So that's why I was there.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Have you watched the credits to the movie, the credits
of the documentary of the documentary, Yeah, so like when
it rolls at the end. You've watched all of those
atmosphere drone eight.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
Yeah you wrote that, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's
computer writing. It's not.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
I got all excited.

Speaker 5 (48:48):
I'm like, you're on the soundtrack. Yeah, I'm on a soundtrack,
but it's it's something I created. I mean, I play
guitar and drums, but you do. Yeah, yeah, guitar drums.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
And where you like a like Nepall mountain drum circle.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
Guy, everyone gather around. I will now play my guitar.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
It's your favorite time of night, and you.

Speaker 5 (49:07):
Will sting along with me. There is only one river
as ode to Everest. No no, but yeah, me and
me and my son jam all the time. But I
didn't feel I thought it was too much work to
do that. So, you know, through the through the atmospheric
drum thing, which is is not really complicated to do
these days, right. I did that because I like those
steady sounds that I feel are ominous and kind of

(49:30):
set the tone of the film.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
Sure, and that's that's.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
What I do. Okay. I got all excited.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
I was like, man, you're on the soundtrack, look at
you go? The all right, So we had the book,
we have the documentary. Obviously you're still doing all your
fitness stuff and all that. What what are you like,
what do we do next?

Speaker 5 (49:51):
Well, I'm still you know, still doing the leadership, executive leadership.
I'm still doing yeah, film work. I'm I'm working on
trying to get an expedition going back. I want to
go to to India Himalaya, but I'm having tough time
finding a logistic team. I thought I found one and
then I said, you know, what recommendations do you have?
So they sent me a bunch of stuff. So I

(50:11):
was looking through it and I was like, this has
kind of been done. You know, I want something a
little bit. Can you do something a little bit more challenging,
little something that kind of sets the bar? And then
they ghosted me.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
You stop talking to me. I'm like, oh, here you
go here again. They just tell me you can't do
it or you don't want to do it.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
But but what is the like when you say the
India Himalaya is what am I looking at there?

Speaker 4 (50:33):
It's the Himalaya. I just in India. I've never been to.

Speaker 5 (50:36):
It's kind of like the reason I went to Spain
for the one of the film premieres is. I've never
been into Spain, and it's always nice to see your
film on a big screen. So, and I love the Himalaya.
I've never been to India, so here you go. Here's
two things. It's like when I went to the North Pole. Right,
I've never been a North Pole. I've never won a marathon.
Let's do two things.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Those both out.

Speaker 5 (50:53):
Yeah, So I was thinking, well, I love to go
to India, the northern part. I've heard some good things
about it, and I would love to go back to
the Himalaya. I heard there's some really that, you know,
the Pakistan in India that kind of have some they're
bumping heads, but there's some kind of sketchy areas and
some mountaineers mountaineering regions that I was thinking, you know what,
that kind of sounds enticing, So maybe I'll look. I'm
looking into it to see if I can go there.

(51:14):
And this would be after, of course, our hiking trip
to Shasta.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Well, yeah, that's part.

Speaker 4 (51:19):
That's number one.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
Is there a good time like two things? Number one,
is there a good time of year to do that?

Speaker 4 (51:26):
Yeah? Usually in the spring, like May, like out.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Of twenty twenty six, you're talking.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
About Shasta, you're talking about India, Himalaya.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
You think you're getting me on the India. I'm like,
I'd love to go. I love the idiots.

Speaker 5 (51:39):
We can go all all summer, but I like going
early because it's more snow. It's easier to hike, easier
to climb.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah, sure, I mean I like snow like, I'm good
with that.

Speaker 4 (51:48):
You learn crampons, getting crampons a man and ice ACKs,
the you love.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
That beautiful the What is the is there? Do I
have to do any pre training?

Speaker 4 (51:59):
Well?

Speaker 5 (51:59):
You have the book on hyper Fitness, which of course
I know you've read from cover to cover several times.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
You told me it was on your sam that you're
still there. You're still there. You're looking at it every
night and just just.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Sweat working like it's right there with it. No, No,
like is there?

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Like?

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Would I would I have to put in a crap
ton of training?

Speaker 4 (52:19):
No, I don't think so.

Speaker 5 (52:20):
I mean if we could set you on a just
start off with the walking thing and we can work
off to it, I gotta I go to find out.
You know, dive deeper? And what are you doing every
day your exercise? You're looking at it right yeah, right there.
My feet my seat don't reach the floor, so.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
I do hop to get down. It's like box jumping.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (52:42):
Now I think, I know, I think. I think mentally,
I think you're I think you could do it. Just mentally,
I think you're mentally really strong.

Speaker 4 (52:48):
I really I think so.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
Just from through the years of hearing you, I was like,
I bet you if I make it stubborn enough, like
hey man, you can't do it, you'll be more like, Oh, I.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Would love I would I would love to go.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
That'd be a good warm up to get I would
feel good about getting you set for India.

Speaker 5 (53:03):
I would love to get you on that mountain and
get you to summit, and then you just how you
evolve after that, how you look at life. I guarantee
it it would be you'll look at it differently in
a more positive way.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Can I ask you this, of all of the how
many how many mountains have you summitted?

Speaker 5 (53:19):
How many people first ascents? I've done over one hundred
and forty first ascents?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
First ascent meaning you're the first first person I've ever.

Speaker 5 (53:26):
Known one hundred and forty of those, and then other
mountains I don't know, are many hundreds I'm gonna say hundreds,
but I've done I used.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Its one hundred and forty. You were the first one.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, I'm author using separate from from the
first ascents. I've done the first ascent one hundred and forty,
and then you know, then the other mountains I've climbed
that other people I've climb you know, I did that volcano,
one of the highest volcanoes, and a couple of eight
thousand meter peaks, a bunch of fourteen ers here, climbed
a bunch of fourteen ers with my son.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
So I don't know, maybe to two hundred.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
If you is there a place on the on the
globe that you've stood that is the most beautiful view.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Of the world us?

Speaker 4 (54:08):
Every first ascent?

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Really?

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (54:10):
It's it's It's an incredible feeling to step atop a
mountain that no one's ever been.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
I can't.

Speaker 5 (54:15):
It's indescribable to me, at least it is like, Okay,
I'm the first person to view this. I get a big,
big joy out of it. Makes all the hard work,
you know, the dowting and going why am I doing this?
This is a stupid makes it all worth it. Every
any mountain I I I climbed at the top, it's
always that that same feeling I get just energizes me.

(54:35):
And no matter how tired I am, when I get
bound to the bottom the next down rated role, I'm
I get I'm really tired.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
I sleep, I wake up, I'm like, let's go. I
just I get so excited about.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
When is a When is the last time you were
on a mountain.

Speaker 4 (54:49):
Of a big mountain?

Speaker 5 (54:50):
I mean, I want hiking, just some mountains in Spain,
but that's when Spain. But that's not too high. I
you know, I'd say anything of value. Let's say, for
the better term, was the highest volcano was in Argentina?

Speaker 1 (55:02):
And how long ago was that?

Speaker 4 (55:04):
Uh year, year and a half?

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Oh, okay, year and a half, forgot that bad but
half ago. But you're jones in like, oh my.

Speaker 5 (55:10):
God, yeah, yeah, oh my gosh. Yeah, I'd go tomorrow
in him if I could. I'm just trying to. I'm
thinking about actually just going there with my backpack and
just like screw it, I'm just gonna go there, no
plans and then just start figuring out mountains to climb.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
If you get that hair in your ass and you're like,
I have to go during the summer. Go, don't let
me hold you back. You go.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
We're gonna, we're gonna go in May. We're gonna be there.
We're gonna know we're going.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
We'll go in May early June.

Speaker 5 (55:39):
It's not gonna it's not gonna uphold anything that I've
I'm doing, dude.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
I love when you come in. I really do. The
book is fantastic, and.

Speaker 5 (55:47):
It's on sale now actually just for a week because
we're starting to promotion and of course December, January and
February the big wellness pushes. So we've just started this
kind of campaign to to build up the book and
get it out there.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
So it's on sale. If anybody interested on the you know,
google Apple, Amazon.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
And the name of the book is Sweat Working and
then there's five thousand words after that.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
But if you just google Sweat Working and Sean Birch,
you'll be able to find it. Kings of the Forest.
It's a great movie or documentary. It really really, I do.
I love when you come in. It makes me angry,
it makes me upset with myself, but I love when
you come in.

Speaker 4 (56:21):
So I feel good about that.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Yeah, because you know, you know exactly what's gonna happen
when you walk out that door. You need this mountain.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
I'm gonna crush a Boston cream, a side of bacon.
You know what. During during the commercial I walk back in,
Sean uttered a sentence. I almost I honestly thought I
was gonna vomit. He and Christian were talking. He was like, Oh,
I never go out to eat. You know, I've been
to ninety percent of all restaurants in the area, and

(56:47):
if I haven't been there, I've door dashed them.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Have you ever door dashed a meal?

Speaker 4 (56:51):
I don't. I've never do on a mountain. I don't
have an account none of that stuff. Nope, don't got it,
don't have it. Don't have it. I told you.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Cookie can be a meditation if you if you let it. Yeah,
you know what, you know what else can ordering wings?

Speaker 5 (57:06):
Yes, I don't want to go to that side because
I know that side of me is there. I don't
want to ever go to that side, at least for me.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
All Right, dude, I love you, you know that. I
love when you come in. King of the Forest is
the documentary, Sweat Working is the book. It is on
sale it's out available now. Dude, thank you so much
for coming in you