Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning. I'm Tony Cruz News Radio A forty whas
doctor Charles Pepperton, a longtime friend of mine, and the
show is joining us here to mentioned family therapy. Louisvilledft
dot com. Hey Charles, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I am doing well? Good morning, Tony.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Good morning. I hope your health is mentally good.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
So this is a thing now and I just it's
hard for me to really wrap my head around it.
And that's artificial intelligence therapy. People are actually asking AI
for responses and what they should do in their lives.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
They are and there's actually AIS being used in multiple
other areas within mental health. Now this is the one
that's kind of hitting the market and hitting the news.
And you should know that at the moment, I'm a
little biased because I really don't think AI can do
what a human can do, So I'm a little biased
(00:58):
in that. But not only is it being utilized to
help people, you know, you call or you text them
and they tell you automated this AI responds to you.
It's also being used to help therapists write notes, so
your therapist can actually record the session and it will
(01:20):
it will translate that into a note for the therapists,
so the therapist no longer has to write notes. We
actually have cases where clients, patients are paying AI engines
to record their sessions and the therapist to upload it
(01:41):
to improve their AI. So there's a whole lot of
aspects of AI being used in mental health, and I'm
a little worried as a professional about a lot of those.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, let's go to law first. I mean, as I
was reading an article, it said human therapists are required
by federal law to keep patients health information confidential. Right,
that's that's.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
What we do, is it yep?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
But the checkbots and are necessarily they have no such obligation.
And so if you're starting to say, if your therapist
is sending you know, your stuff to AI, then that
could be I get, I could assume stolen intel or
information here.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, okay, so one your therapist is bound that if
we utilize a service, that service needs to follow the
same hipp of guidelines we are and if not, then
I would be held accountable. So if you and I
had a session and I uploaded your information to whatever
hip whatever AI for whatever reason, if it wasn't mandated
(02:49):
and guaranteed to be Hippo compliant, you as the patient
could hold me responsible. However, if you are as a
patient talking to an AI, could do you hold responsible?
I mean because that AI is not mandated, because it's
not licensed, it's not a medical professional, it's not a person,
(03:15):
so it doesn't fall under those same obligations as I
do as an individual and a human.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Well, I was reading that one person liked AI better
than the therapist that she had because the appairly, the
device she was using, was just giving her the facts
you need to basically get rid of this loser in
your life and move on.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That well, and you know, right, and some and there
are times that these that these tools, I am sure
can be helpful. What worries me the most is all
the guardrails that they don't have in place yet, Protections
for the client, for the individual, because we're talking about
people that can be very, very vulnerable, and AI is
(04:06):
not smart enough yet to know the right thing to
say the right time to say it. And I'm not
saying human therapist are either, But at least then there's
some guard rails, and there's a lot of training and
there's a natural instinct that I hope most of us
as therapists have ais don't have.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
That you mean a soul in compassion, Well, that would.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Be the yes, those would be the words absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
All right. More coming up with Charles Pepperton dimension family
therapy next, all right, look into computers now to be
your therapist probably not a good idea, just my take,
but Charles Pepperton's take as well. So this story from
The Washington Post, a reporter asked chat GPT Charles if
it could help process deeply personal thoughts, and it responded affirmatively,
(04:58):
offering to help you work through your thoughts in a
safe a way that feels safe, and to offer perspective
without judgment. Well, you know that the computer's not necessarily
looking at you, seeing your response and your uncomfortable positioning,
seeing your eyes bat you know, if you're lying to
your therapist blah blah blah blah blah, on and on
(05:19):
and on. So I don't know, we've got a long
way to go with that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I think I would agree with you. And you know,
it's that same idea of people that are doing telehealth
has been very beneficial to a lot of people, and
even on the therapist side, it's a whole lot easier
to you know, with telehealth than to actually do in
person therapy. But in person therapy gives the therapist so
(05:45):
much more information. And when you're talking about you know,
a chat, GPT or an AI, they're getting even less
information because all they're processing is you know, the speed
of your words and the words you're using. They're not
taking an account any of those non verbals that a
therapist should pick up on. And the other side of
(06:08):
that is, as someone said in that same article, that well,
it really improved my mental health. You know, in one
of the basic beliefs within therapy is is that therapists
don't improve your mental health. We point out the way
to go, you know, the path. You're the one that
does the work. And it really concerned me in that
article where a patient believe the computer helped improve their
(06:33):
mental health. And I know that's a fine line to walk,
but that does concern me.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Sure, I will say. Another big concern that I have,
and this is a longer term issue, is I think
we're creating a more division in availability for services. I
think common sense face value would say at this point,
a real therapist doing in person work is going to
be better than an AI, but people are moving to
(07:02):
AIS because they can't afford therapist, because therapists aren't necessarily
readily available. So we're creating another division of care because
those that can afford it will get in. Those that
don't have to use their insurance can pay for fee
for service, and we have a lot of people that
(07:24):
are just left on the flip.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Side of that.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
AI means that, well, maybe I can't charge as much
for my services because well, there's this computer that can
talk to millions of people at the same time, I
think we have to be very careful about the long
term strategies that we're doing. Are we kind of pricing
real therapist out of the market.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Well, I mean that's a twofold. That's not even a
twofold questions. That's a lot of folds to be honest
with you, because I mean, this is basically not just healthcare,
but this is I mean mental health care, this is
healthcare in general. There are so many people I know,
people say, okay, there there's Obamacare. Well, a lot of
people make too much money to get Obamacare, but it
certainly don't make enough money if they're a private contractor
(08:08):
to have their own health care situation that's anywhere near affordable.
You know, if you've got a family of four and
you got to pay twenty six hundred dollars a month
because you know, you're a Stonemason or something like that,
then it's going to be hard to make it.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
You're right, And so on one hand, people need these
services and they're going to have to get these services
wherever they can. But if we're not careful, they may
be getting a subpar service. So we have to be
careful of that aspect. We can't price ourselves out of
the market for any of these any of these healthcare products.
(08:44):
But at the same time, we need to make sure
that people are getting quality care. Because when I'm sick,
I'm just whether it's whether I'm depressed or I'm having
a psychotic break, or whether I'm thinking I have pneumonia,
I'm in a very vulnerable spot and I'm just looking
for help. We need to try to make sure that
people get a certain level of care, at least to
(09:06):
start off with.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Forgive my whining, though, you know I sound like somebody
on the view just then I'm sorry. I apologize to
the whole entire audience.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, and this would be a good thing for you
to go talk to a chat GPT and I'm sure
that they can help you.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Oh gosh, no, thank you hey, thank you though for
joining us.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Thank you, Tony, you have a great rest of the day.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Are you to Charles Pemberton Divention Family Therapy
Good morning. I'm Tony Cruz News Radio A forty whas
doctor Charles Pepperton, a longtime friend of mine, and the
show is joining us here to mentioned family therapy. Louisvilledft
dot com. Hey Charles, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I am doing well? Good morning, Tony.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Good morning. I hope your health is mentally good.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
So this is a thing now and I just it's
hard for me to really wrap my head around it.
And that's artificial intelligence therapy. People are actually asking AI
for responses and what they should do in their lives.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
They are and there's actually AIS being used in multiple
other areas within mental health. Now this is the one
that's kind of hitting the market and hitting the news.
And you should know that at the moment, I'm a
little biased because I really don't think AI can do
what a human can do, So I'm a little biased
(00:58):
in that. But not only is it being utilized to
help people, you know, you call or you text them
and they tell you automated this AI responds to you.
It's also being used to help therapists write notes, so
your therapist can actually record the session and it will
(01:20):
it will translate that into a note for the therapists,
so the therapist no longer has to write notes. We
actually have cases where clients, patients are paying AI engines
to record their sessions and the therapist to upload it
(01:41):
to improve their AI. So there's a whole lot of
aspects of AI being used in mental health, and I'm
a little worried as a professional about a lot of those.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, let's go to law first. I mean, as I
was reading an article, it said human therapists are required
by federal law to keep patients health information confidential. Right,
that's that's.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
What we do, is it yep?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
But the checkbots and are necessarily they have no such obligation.
And so if you're starting to say, if your therapist
is sending you know, your stuff to AI, then that
could be I get, I could assume stolen intel or
information here.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, okay, so one your therapist is bound that if
we utilize a service, that service needs to follow the
same hipp of guidelines we are and if not, then
I would be held accountable. So if you and I
had a session and I uploaded your information to whatever
hip whatever AI for whatever reason, if it wasn't mandated
(02:49):
and guaranteed to be Hippo compliant, you as the patient
could hold me responsible. However, if you are as a
patient talking to an AI, could do you hold responsible?
I mean because that AI is not mandated, because it's
not licensed, it's not a medical professional, it's not a person,
(03:15):
so it doesn't fall under those same obligations as I
do as an individual and a human.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Well, I was reading that one person liked AI better
than the therapist that she had because the appairly, the
device she was using, was just giving her the facts
you need to basically get rid of this loser in
your life and move on.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That well, and you know, right, and some and there
are times that these that these tools, I am sure
can be helpful. What worries me the most is all
the guardrails that they don't have in place yet, Protections
for the client, for the individual, because we're talking about
people that can be very, very vulnerable, and AI is
(04:06):
not smart enough yet to know the right thing to
say the right time to say it. And I'm not
saying human therapist are either, But at least then there's
some guard rails, and there's a lot of training and
there's a natural instinct that I hope most of us
as therapists have ais don't have.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
That you mean a soul in compassion, Well, that would.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Be the yes, those would be the words absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
All right. More coming up with Charles Pepperton dimension family
therapy next, all right, look into computers now to be
your therapist probably not a good idea, just my take,
but Charles Pepperton's take as well. So this story from
The Washington Post, a reporter asked chat GPT Charles if
it could help process deeply personal thoughts, and it responded affirmatively,
(04:58):
offering to help you work through your thoughts in a
safe a way that feels safe, and to offer perspective
without judgment. Well, you know that the computer's not necessarily
looking at you, seeing your response and your uncomfortable positioning,
seeing your eyes bat you know, if you're lying to
your therapist blah blah blah blah blah, on and on
(05:19):
and on. So I don't know, we've got a long
way to go with that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I think I would agree with you. And you know,
it's that same idea of people that are doing telehealth
has been very beneficial to a lot of people, and
even on the therapist side, it's a whole lot easier
to you know, with telehealth than to actually do in
person therapy. But in person therapy gives the therapist so
(05:45):
much more information. And when you're talking about you know,
a chat, GPT or an AI, they're getting even less
information because all they're processing is you know, the speed
of your words and the words you're using. They're not
taking an account any of those non verbals that a
therapist should pick up on. And the other side of
(06:08):
that is, as someone said in that same article, that well,
it really improved my mental health. You know, in one
of the basic beliefs within therapy is is that therapists
don't improve your mental health. We point out the way
to go, you know, the path. You're the one that
does the work. And it really concerned me in that
article where a patient believe the computer helped improve their
(06:33):
mental health. And I know that's a fine line to walk,
but that does concern me.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Sure, I will say. Another big concern that I have,
and this is a longer term issue, is I think
we're creating a more division in availability for services. I
think common sense face value would say at this point,
a real therapist doing in person work is going to
be better than an AI, but people are moving to
(07:02):
AIS because they can't afford therapist, because therapists aren't necessarily
readily available. So we're creating another division of care because
those that can afford it will get in. Those that
don't have to use their insurance can pay for fee
for service, and we have a lot of people that
(07:24):
are just left on the flip.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Side of that.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
AI means that, well, maybe I can't charge as much
for my services because well, there's this computer that can
talk to millions of people at the same time, I
think we have to be very careful about the long
term strategies that we're doing. Are we kind of pricing
real therapist out of the market.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Well, I mean that's a twofold. That's not even a
twofold questions. That's a lot of folds to be honest
with you, because I mean, this is basically not just healthcare,
but this is I mean mental health care, this is
healthcare in general. There are so many people I know,
people say, okay, there there's Obamacare. Well, a lot of
people make too much money to get Obamacare, but it
certainly don't make enough money if they're a private contractor
(08:08):
to have their own health care situation that's anywhere near affordable.
You know, if you've got a family of four and
you got to pay twenty six hundred dollars a month
because you know, you're a Stonemason or something like that,
then it's going to be hard to make it.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
You're right, And so on one hand, people need these
services and they're going to have to get these services
wherever they can. But if we're not careful, they may
be getting a subpar service. So we have to be
careful of that aspect. We can't price ourselves out of
the market for any of these any of these healthcare products.
(08:44):
But at the same time, we need to make sure
that people are getting quality care. Because when I'm sick,
I'm just whether it's whether I'm depressed or I'm having
a psychotic break, or whether I'm thinking I have pneumonia,
I'm in a very vulnerable spot and I'm just looking
for help. We need to try to make sure that
people get a certain level of care, at least to
(09:06):
start off with.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Forgive my whining, though, you know I sound like somebody
on the view just then I'm sorry. I apologize to
the whole entire audience.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, and this would be a good thing for you
to go talk to a chat GPT and I'm sure
that they can help you.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Oh gosh, no, thank you hey, thank you though for
joining us.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Thank you, Tony, you have a great rest of the day.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Are you to Charles Pemberton Divention Family Therapy
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