Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tony Cruz News Radio eight forty WHJS well House
Billed four ninety five that has been brought to the
forefront with the Representative David Hale, Republican from Wellington, is
a primary sponsor of this bill that wants to protect
what's called conversion therapy. It's been controversial for a while,
or you could say conversion or reparative therapy. So doctor
(00:23):
Charles Pemmerton is going to join us today because he
is a counselor in his own right with the dimension
Family Therapy, Louisville DFT dot com. And you know, Charles,
this is a religious issue for many people. It's a
social issue for many people. It's a scientific issue for
some other people. I mean, you know, name name, whatever.
(00:45):
The different levels of life are. And this has been
a controversial disagreement by a lot of people on both
sides of the fence here.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
You're right, you're right. And I thought about, you know
that this topic today, and I thought, what could be
worse than talking about tariffs. Hey, let's talk about conversion therapy.
That's about some more people up so, you know, so
let let's talk a little bit about the House bill
and so everyone needs to know that for all of
(01:17):
the major therapy groups, marriage and family, social work, clinical counselors,
all of them have a licensing board in the state
of Kentucky, so that if something happens to you or
a loved one through therapy and someone does something wrong,
(01:38):
you can contact this board and say, hey, I think
they did something wrong, and the board will is there
to protect the public. Those boards aren't there to protect us.
My licensing board doesn't protect me. My licensing board is
really there for the to protect everyone else from me
and therapist. So the first thing that's concerning about this
(02:00):
this house bill is now they're saying, well, this type
of therapy or this topic, now, this area that you
might be working with, we're taking it out of the
hands of all the licensing boards. The licensing boards will
not have a say or have any authority over that. Well,
that's concerning because if you go to someone and they
(02:23):
do something wrong and it is in this area gender
and sexual identity and identity possibly in general, there is
no authority to protect you as part of the public.
That always concerns me. I'm not saying the boards get
it all right, but they serve as that protection from
(02:45):
the public, and now there's not that that entity to
protect you. Go on, So that's go ahead. I'm sorry,
I was gonna say. So, that's one issue of this
bill that is, like, you know, this should concern the
public because there's not we're taking away that protection from you.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
All right, Describe what conversion therapy means as you've seen it.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Okay, So conversion therapy has a lot of different aspects,
but the basic principle is any type of therapy talk therapy,
medical therapy, surgical therapy that works to alter a person's identity,
(03:28):
more specifically their gender identity or their sexual identity, meaning
whether they see themselves as more male or female or
a combination gender, or whether they see themselves as being
attracted to someone of the same sex, different sex, both sexes.
(03:49):
Those are the in broad strokes here. Those are the
identities that conversion therapy works with, and it looks to
bring those into more of what we call a cist gender,
which is identifying with your birth sex, and then more
of a heterosexual sexuality, meaning attraction to the opposite sex.
(04:12):
All conversion therapies work on that premise, whether it's surgery
or drugs or hypnosis, all of them work to make
that change.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
There are people saying, right now, I'm the parent, I
should have my rights to send my child to the
therapist that I want. What do you.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Say, Well, and I agree with that. I go back
to all that that therapist still needs to have someone
guiding them and have authority over them. But I also
say that, well, we need to respect where a lot
of the science goes, and we go back to for sexuality,
(04:51):
homosexuality was taken off the table as a disorder back
in nineteen seventy three. So seventy three is when the
organizations said, yeah, that's not a that's not a that's
not something that someone's broke on, and these are these
(05:13):
have continued for that long and now we've put gender
in it. But I think we have to be respectful
of those people that for the experts in this field,
and it's not just one we're not saying it's just
the Psychological Association. Every organization has said this doesn't work.
(05:35):
But more importantly, the studies have shown it makes it
worse for people, So you could actually be making it
worse for your child.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
People say sexuality is a nature nurture situation. In your
professional experience, what have you seen?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
You know? I think, as always it's never an easy,
you know, white or black, this or that type of answer.
I think that there's a whole lot of things that
go into developing our identity and gender and sexual is
one of those identities. It is not only chemical, we
know all sorts of neurochemicals go into that, but yes,
(06:14):
life life experience can go into that trauma as well
as good things can go into that. There's a lot
of things that happen there. I think we want to
have that easy answer of thing, well it is this,
but rarely is it just one thing.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
What's been your experience when you've talked to patients who
come to you and they're concerned about their sexuality, how
do you deal with that?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah? You know, when I deal with that, I always
back up and I look first of all at that
general identity issue of well, who how do you see yourself?
And are you happy with where you are? And if
you're not satisfied with with who you see yourself as well,
then what are the options that you have before you
(07:01):
to make those changes. It's not a matter of me
judging them. I look at it the same way as
as somebody says, you know, I want to be a plumber.
I'm like, well, that's a stupid job. Why would you
want to be a plumber? And I try to divert
them from being a plumber to being an electrician. I
would never do that. So it becomes well, you if
your father wants you to be a plumber and you
(07:22):
don't want to be a plumber, well, what are your options?
Can you talk about that? Are there other things that
you can do? What is it about being a plumber
that you don't like? Are there can you be a plumber?
But change those things? It's the same way for me
with any identity issue that someone comes to me with.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
There has been a lot of talk and some other
some others in your profession, particularly in England and others
have changed their minds on kids and their sexual identity.
What are your thoughts about the formation of that and
when kids want surgery and their moms or dad want
to or both, obviously we want to comply with what
(08:00):
their children want at twelve or thirteen years old.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Well, and that is a situation where I think exploring
some of those is definitely needed. Being open to listening
to your child is definitely needed. But I think we
have to be very careful when we start making changes
in someone's life that are ultimately permanent or have permanent effects.
Now I believe that not only with some of these therapies,
(08:28):
but I believe that with some of you know, medications
for ADHD and all sorts of other things as well.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying we have
to be very careful with all of those. We also
know that neurologically, a person's brain is not developed until
(08:49):
they're in their mid sometimes late twenties. So we have
to be cognizant of the fact that what a child wants,
what an adolescent wants right now may not be what
they ultimately want in life.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Whether that's a job or what, oh, your phone's breaking
up here a little bit, Whether it's.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Whether that's whether it's you know, the job they want
or a school or even a tattoo. We have to
sometimes slow that down and let all of their bodies develop.
The problem is is that with some of the gender
blocking issues, we if we don't block them early, then
it's even harder to make that change. We are seeing,
(09:34):
unfortunately a lot of regret with people, meaning they've made
those changes than they wish they didn't, and we have
to weigh that in on that scientific outcome.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Appreciate your time, Charles, thanks as always for joining us,
and we'll talk again a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
All right, Thank you very much, Dony all right
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Charles Pemberton, Dimension Family Therapy, LOUISVILLEDFT dot com contact canasweren
news more coming your way, sports with John Alden's next
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tony Cruz News Radio eight forty WHJS well House
Billed four ninety five that has been brought to the
forefront with the Representative David Hale, Republican from Wellington, is
a primary sponsor of this bill that wants to protect
what's called conversion therapy. It's been controversial for a while,
or you could say conversion or reparative therapy. So doctor
(00:23):
Charles Pemmerton is going to join us today because he
is a counselor in his own right with the dimension
Family Therapy, Louisville DFT dot com. And you know, Charles,
this is a religious issue for many people. It's a
social issue for many people. It's a scientific issue for
some other people. I mean, you know, name name, whatever.
(00:45):
The different levels of life are. And this has been
a controversial disagreement by a lot of people on both
sides of the fence here.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
You're right, you're right. And I thought about, you know
that this topic today, and I thought, what could be
worse than talking about tariffs. Hey, let's talk about conversion therapy.
That's about some more people up so, you know, so
let let's talk a little bit about the House bill
and so everyone needs to know that for all of
(01:17):
the major therapy groups, marriage and family, social work, clinical counselors,
all of them have a licensing board in the state
of Kentucky, so that if something happens to you or
a loved one through therapy and someone does something wrong,
(01:38):
you can contact this board and say, hey, I think
they did something wrong, and the board will is there
to protect the public. Those boards aren't there to protect us.
My licensing board doesn't protect me. My licensing board is
really there for the to protect everyone else from me
and therapist. So the first thing that's concerning about this
(02:00):
this house bill is now they're saying, well, this type
of therapy or this topic, now, this area that you
might be working with, we're taking it out of the
hands of all the licensing boards. The licensing boards will
not have a say or have any authority over that. Well,
that's concerning because if you go to someone and they
(02:23):
do something wrong and it is in this area gender
and sexual identity and identity possibly in general, there is
no authority to protect you as part of the public.
That always concerns me. I'm not saying the boards get
it all right, but they serve as that protection from
(02:45):
the public, and now there's not that that entity to
protect you. Go on, So that's go ahead. I'm sorry,
I was gonna say. So, that's one issue of this
bill that is, like, you know, this should concern the
public because there's not we're taking away that protection from you.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
All right, Describe what conversion therapy means as you've seen it.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Okay, So conversion therapy has a lot of different aspects,
but the basic principle is any type of therapy talk therapy,
medical therapy, surgical therapy that works to alter a person's identity,
(03:28):
more specifically their gender identity or their sexual identity, meaning
whether they see themselves as more male or female or
a combination gender, or whether they see themselves as being
attracted to someone of the same sex, different sex, both sexes.
(03:49):
Those are the in broad strokes here. Those are the
identities that conversion therapy works with, and it looks to
bring those into more of what we call a cist gender,
which is identifying with your birth sex, and then more
of a heterosexual sexuality, meaning attraction to the opposite sex.
(04:12):
All conversion therapies work on that premise, whether it's surgery
or drugs or hypnosis, all of them work to make
that change.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
There are people saying, right now, I'm the parent, I
should have my rights to send my child to the
therapist that I want. What do you.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Say, Well, and I agree with that. I go back
to all that that therapist still needs to have someone
guiding them and have authority over them. But I also
say that, well, we need to respect where a lot
of the science goes, and we go back to for sexuality,
(04:51):
homosexuality was taken off the table as a disorder back
in nineteen seventy three. So seventy three is when the
organizations said, yeah, that's not a that's not a that's
not something that someone's broke on, and these are these
(05:13):
have continued for that long and now we've put gender
in it. But I think we have to be respectful
of those people that for the experts in this field,
and it's not just one we're not saying it's just
the Psychological Association. Every organization has said this doesn't work.
(05:35):
But more importantly, the studies have shown it makes it
worse for people, So you could actually be making it
worse for your child.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
People say sexuality is a nature nurture situation. In your
professional experience, what have you seen?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
You know? I think, as always it's never an easy,
you know, white or black, this or that type of answer.
I think that there's a whole lot of things that
go into developing our identity and gender and sexual is
one of those identities. It is not only chemical, we
know all sorts of neurochemicals go into that, but yes,
(06:14):
life life experience can go into that trauma as well
as good things can go into that. There's a lot
of things that happen there. I think we want to
have that easy answer of thing, well it is this,
but rarely is it just one thing.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
What's been your experience when you've talked to patients who
come to you and they're concerned about their sexuality, how
do you deal with that?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah? You know, when I deal with that, I always
back up and I look first of all at that
general identity issue of well, who how do you see yourself?
And are you happy with where you are? And if
you're not satisfied with with who you see yourself as well,
then what are the options that you have before you
(07:01):
to make those changes. It's not a matter of me
judging them. I look at it the same way as
as somebody says, you know, I want to be a plumber.
I'm like, well, that's a stupid job. Why would you
want to be a plumber? And I try to divert
them from being a plumber to being an electrician. I
would never do that. So it becomes well, you if
your father wants you to be a plumber and you
(07:22):
don't want to be a plumber, well, what are your options?
Can you talk about that? Are there other things that
you can do? What is it about being a plumber
that you don't like? Are there can you be a plumber?
But change those things? It's the same way for me
with any identity issue that someone comes to me with.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
There has been a lot of talk and some other
some others in your profession, particularly in England and others
have changed their minds on kids and their sexual identity.
What are your thoughts about the formation of that and
when kids want surgery and their moms or dad want
to or both, obviously we want to comply with what
(08:00):
their children want at twelve or thirteen years old.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Well, and that is a situation where I think exploring
some of those is definitely needed. Being open to listening
to your child is definitely needed. But I think we
have to be very careful when we start making changes
in someone's life that are ultimately permanent or have permanent effects.
Now I believe that not only with some of these therapies,
(08:28):
but I believe that with some of you know, medications
for ADHD and all sorts of other things as well.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying we have
to be very careful with all of those. We also
know that neurologically, a person's brain is not developed until
(08:49):
they're in their mid sometimes late twenties. So we have
to be cognizant of the fact that what a child wants,
what an adolescent wants right now may not be what
they ultimately want in life.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Whether that's a job or what, oh, your phone's breaking
up here a little bit, Whether it's.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Whether that's whether it's you know, the job they want
or a school or even a tattoo. We have to
sometimes slow that down and let all of their bodies develop.
The problem is is that with some of the gender
blocking issues, we if we don't block them early, then
it's even harder to make that change. We are seeing,
(09:34):
unfortunately a lot of regret with people, meaning they've made
those changes than they wish they didn't, and we have
to weigh that in on that scientific outcome.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Appreciate your time, Charles, thanks as always for joining us,
and we'll talk again a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
All right, Thank you very much, Dony all right
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Charles Pemberton, Dimension Family Therapy, LOUISVILLEDFT dot com contact canasweren
news more coming your way, sports with John Alden's next
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