December 16, 2025 • 29 mins
For this conversation we're joined by singer-songwriter and actress Kiana Ledé for a deeply honest and heartfelt conversation about her journey with bipolar disorder, how she’s learned to navigate her diagnosis with compassion, and the ways therapy, boundaries, and connection have supported her along the way. Kiana and I also explored the emotional world of her deluxe album, Cut the Ties, and the themes of self-love, closure, and transformation that run throughout the project. She opened up about the creative process behind the music, the tenderness required to tell the truth about her experiences, and what it means to heal while still being in the public eye.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for another
episode of Therapy for Black Girls University. We'll get right
into our conversation afterword from our sponsors. For this episode,
I have the pleasure of sitting down with singer, songwriter
and actress Keana Ledey for a deeply honest and heartfelt conversation.
(00:32):
We talked about her journey with bipolar disorder, how she's
learned to navigate her diagnosis with compassion, and the ways therapy,
boundaries and connection have supported her along the way. We
also explored the emotional world of her deluxe album Cut
The Ties, and the themes of self love, closure, and
transformation that run throughout the project. She opened up about
(00:53):
the creative process behind her music, the tenderness requires to
tell the truth about her experiences and what is means
to heal while still being in the public eye. If
something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share
with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in Session.
Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Kiana.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Of course, thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, so I love some story by hearing you talk
a little bit about what do you feel like is
most important for people to understand about you, both professionally
and creatively at this moment in your life.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I think the most important thing that people should know
about me is that I'm figuring it out. I'm a
human being, just like everybody else. And one of the
things that I learned, and I know my mom has
told me that she's learned, and like everybody learns as
they get older, is that you don't know what you're doing,
(01:53):
and you think that all these people that are older
than you have the shit together. I just learn as
I get older, the older I get, the less I know.
So that bleeds into my professional life too, because I
am my profession So not to judge me too much, please,
(02:17):
I am really trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, you know, I appreciate you saying that, because I
think we're all figuring out. You're right, your mom is right,
You're right, everybody's right, like we don't all know what
we're doing. We're just going day by day trying to
figure it out. But I think the interesting part of
you know the work that you do in other artists
is that you're figuring it out very publicly, right, you
just did like, oh, don't judge me. So what kinds
(02:40):
of things do you feel like help you to figure
it out?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I think the people that I surround myself with really helps.
I have a partner that's really great, and my manager
is amazing. I make sure to surround myself with people
that I don't feel judged by and that have patience
with me, I think is the most important part. There's
(03:08):
patience and there's understanding because I'm learning so much more
about myself every single day, and it's been interesting realizations
and struggles that I've uncovered over the last couple of years.
So being able to have a community that gives me
grace is everything.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Are there things in particular that you feel like people
have been very judging about as it relates to you.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So I did a mushroom trip the other day and
I realized that I actually have this like deep fear
of judgment even if people aren't judging me. I group
doing pageants, so and I've been doing this since I
was fourteen, so I'm used to the judgment and having
people that are hyper critical, and I think I've taken
(03:58):
that on as something that I am fearful of and
things that I push on myself. So I'm major imposter syndrome,
and so I don't even necessarily think it's other people
judging me. I think I just have this extreme fear
of judgment.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
H That makes a lot of sense, But also what
bravery to feel that and still put yourself out there
the way that you do through your artistry.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Thank you. I feel like I have no choice. This
is just clam so I help people enjoy it. I
hope it's at least entertaining and at the very least
right at the very least.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So the name of your latest project is Cutting Ties,
which I think is a very powerful title. What do
you feel like you were cutting ties with in either
your personal or professional life that led to that title.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I was letting go of a lot of relationships, not
just one, but a lot of relationships that were talks
and a part of my life for eight years because
I had so many changes in my environment and my
mental health changed so much. I realized that longtime friends
(05:14):
aren't forever friends. They don't have to be, and relationships
can get really sticky and you can feel super stuck
in them, but you don't have to stay stuck in them. Yeah.
I think as I was growing into myself, I grew
more of a voice, and that meant that I might
have to cut ties with people. I'm a super loving
and understanding, non judgemental, open person, but once somebody crosses
(05:40):
that line, I'm very unforgiving. And I think I've had
to learn whether the unforgiving is being unforgiving or just
not forgetting, and what the boundary is of being able
to give people chances but also know when it's time
to stop.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I feel like that's a conversation lots of people have
been having around, you know, like when is it time
to let go of a friend? How do you know?
And I hear you saying that you know, you had
some difficult conversations and then at some point realize, Okay,
boundaries have been crossed and I have to choose myself
in this case.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, So what on the deluxe album, Like, what did
you feel like was left unsaid from the standard version
of cutting ties to the deluxe version? What more were
you able to say on the deluxe.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, first, I mean, I'm just so happy with the
people that came on to do the album. I love Queen,
I love Chloe, I love Beja. They're all great people.
I tried it just a big thing about me because
I try to keep myself surrounded by really good, genuine people.
And I loved having them on there because I loved
working with them and they are amazing people. I think
(06:52):
the last song that I have on there, called Jerry,
is a song that was supposed to be on the
next project that we have already finished, and it didn't
quite make the cut, and my manager was like, this
has to go somewhere, like we have to put it out,
and it ended up being like the perfect transition song.
I think you hear a lot of my mourning, almost
(07:14):
like you see the love, you see the morning, and
then you see when I start to set boundaries, and
I think, now after the boundaries, I don't know about you,
but I feel resentment coming after I put down the
boundaries because I'm like, I gave you so many chances
and I was so loyal and so genuine. I'm excited
to show people more of the resentment feeling that they
(07:38):
get from jury. Going into the next.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Project, I found that the resentment is sometimes, you know,
a lot of times related to other people, but there's
also some like resentment for myself, like when I have
not oh, I stored myself right, Like is that a
part of the process as well?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yes? Absolutely, I mean I shamed myself all the time,
I think being a brown black girl, you know, dealing
with mental health struggles my entire life, I've learned to
shame myself. Really well, it's really hard to forgive yourself
when you let people in and they let you down,
(08:17):
for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, And what's the process of forgiving yourself in because
that has to happen. So what have the process been
like for you?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I think the biggest part of the process is understanding
that I did the best I could with the tools
I was given. My therapist says that to me all
the time, giving myself grace, speaking to my therapist and
really connecting with my inner child and realizing like I
(08:47):
was given all of these tools that are not necessarily
always useful or helpful, and one of those is like
being self aware, but sometimes being painfully self aware and
knowing when it's time to stop therapising myself and let
my therapist guide me through that.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
That's such a hazard, right especially, I mean, you've talked
very openly about your mental health journey, about your therapists,
your experiences with multiple therapists, and so at some point
you do have to realize like, Okay, I can just
be a human, Like everything is not like a self
assessment and picking myself apart.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
How do you feel like mixing your mental health journey
with your creative journey? Like how has that shown up
been your work?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I had this realization the other day. When I was
a kid growing up, it was a very toxic living situation,
and I realized that I was just a really sad kid.
I was dealing with depression. I remember like my first
major depressive episode when I was like twelve. I realized
(09:53):
that music was not the thing that made me happy.
It's a thing that made me feel comfortable with being sad.
And I've been taking that with me. You know, I
go through different shifts in my journey, and I go
down different packs and I learn more about myself, so
(10:13):
my music just but I think the thing that remains
the same is my authenticity. When it comes to the
sad music. Those are the things that make me feel
the best. They feel good when I'm performing them. It
makes people cry, and it makes me cry, and then
being super honest about my mental health, being honest about
my sexual abuse, Like all these things are the only
(10:37):
things that make me feel comfortable in music still, So yeah,
I think being super vulnerable and open and genuine is
the thing that makes me feel like the music matters more.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
From our conversation after the break, So what has it
been like as an artist living with a bipolar disorder.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I think the thing that I've struggled with the most
is I take everything very personally, and I think that's
a huge trigger for my bipolar And I also don't
have a lot of time where I can sit and
check in with myself. Having basically zero time for so
(11:29):
many years just working my ass off in a very
inconsistent and unpredictable environment made me not take care of
my mental health and not understand what was going on.
But when I got on medication, I was really scared
to get on medication because I was like, it's going
(11:49):
to take away my creativity. I think that's a huge
struggle too. I think I was in denial for years
about what was going on because I was like, I
didn't I don't want it to take away my drive.
I don't want it to take away my creativity because
a lot of the music that I wrote that I
felt the best about came from sadness, but it ended
up making the music better because I wasn't dealing with
(12:10):
all these extra thoughts. I think the bipolar magnified even
more my fear of judgment because I had a lot
of really negative, downspiraling messages I was telling myself constantly,
so hearing negative things and then telling myself negative things
(12:31):
on top of that constantly. It became really tough. There were,
of course, what I thought were great moments at the
time when I felt like I was on top of
the world in my career, and I felt like I
was on top of the world personally. You know, mania
is a very real thing, and if you're bipolari to
(12:51):
understand mania, feels amazing at the time, and then you
realize that there's a huge crash and that was affecting
my health a lot when I was having rough times
in my career and rough times mentally. So yeah, yeah,
it's I think the unpredictability in general and my fear
of judgment were the hardest things to deal with. For sure.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I appreciate you sharing so honestly about your fears about
taking medication, because I think it is a huge thing
for people who are creative, right, like, how is this
going to change my creativity? Am I gonna be the same?
What kinds of things helped you to confront that fear
and to become okay with taking the medication.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So I had a couple people tell me that I
was bipolar for years since I was twenty, And then
when I was twenty twenty three or twenty four, there
was a song I wrote about depression called Heavy, and
(13:54):
I had Jennifer Lewis, who's really open about her mental
health struggles, on the song. I took a clip from
a podcast that she did that my mom had sent me,
and I asked to put it on a song, and
she asked to meet with me. So I went to
her house and I was talking to her and I
was just telling her what I was going through and
she was like, bit your bipolar And I was like, no,
(14:15):
I'm not. She was like, yes you are. And she's
also bi polar, and she was like, yes you are.
She told me to read her book and call her
as soon as I'm finished, and that she's not going
to reach out to me because I'm not going to
change until I'm ready. I'm not going to look for
help until I'm ready. And I hadn't had a therapist
yet that I trusted and I didn't call her, so
(14:37):
I was in denial for sure. And I had another
therapist before that was white, and I felt like she
didn't really understand family dynamics, so she couldn't really understand me,
and she didn't understand my experience. And then a couple
of years later, I ended up being referred to a
black female therapist and that changed everything. The way that
(15:00):
she approached things was also very different, Like she asked me,
what would you do if I told you you were
bit polar? And I think at that point I was
so low and being told by somebody I felt super
comfortable with and I trusted, my mind started to open
(15:21):
up a little more and I just said, I think
I just laughed, Like anytime she tells me something, I
just laughed. How to respond to it? It's like when comfortable,
you know, nervous anxious response, I guess. And when I
(15:44):
accepted the diagnosis, she kind of was like trying to
help me figure out how to manage things without medication,
but I think at some point I was just so
desperate to feel better, and she helped me get into
(16:06):
this mindset of like, am I gonna live like this forever?
Or would I rather just try something because I have
nothing to lose. And that put me into a very
vulnerable space that I was really scared to be in,
but also opened my mind, and she referred me to
(16:30):
a psychiatrist, and then I had my first conversation. It
felt like I was breaking the seal, like I was
just like, all right, let's try it. Let's see what happens.
And I know I can get off of it if
I need to, but I might as well just try
something because there are no other options at this point.
I'm either gonna just live like this forever or try
to change something in some way. So yeah, then I
(16:55):
tried the first medication, and I had to realize also
that it was going to take a couple tries. Just
like a therapist, you have to find the one that fits.
And took me a while, but I'm finally on something
on a couple few different pills that make me feel
comfortable and like I can live my life day to day.
And it was so magical. It really felt like magic.
(17:19):
Like I had lived my whole life having these negative
voices in my head things I was telling myself, and
I would look at it's hard to explain to people
that don't have bipolar. I would look at a tree
and I would be like, Wow, that tree is so beautiful.
Oh the leaves are falling off. Oh it's fall Oh
(17:42):
my god, I'm going to die like it spiraled so fast,
And that was my whole life. I lived my whole
life like that. So when things started to change and
my brain wasn't doing that, I was like, oh my god,
this is magic. And it just made me want to
keep searching for answers and yeah, and find different tools
and ways that my brain could live a healthier life.
(18:03):
And I'm so grateful I did that. So just breaking
that seal and finding somebody that is that you're comfortable
with talking to and that you respect getting that advice from.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, I'm really glad that you found a treatment plan
that has been working for you, because I know that
that can be rough, right when you're trying lots of
different medications, trying different things and you finally find the
thing that works for you. Great, So I know. One
of the things that is also really important for people
who live with bipolar disorders is to have practices in
terms of like staying grounded, sleep, hygien like, all of
(18:38):
these things that kind of help you to kind of
stay structured. What kinds of practices have you incorporated into
your routine that helps to support your mental health.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I definitely don't do enough. I know that there's more
and more I could do. You know, what's really difficult
is being in the moment and remembering the tools that
you have. When you've dear life for so long, just
trying to survive and be a warrior, it's really hard
to remember the things that will help you. And I
think the biggest thing when I've had really bad panic attacks,
(19:12):
one of the coolest things and the biggest thing that's
helped me is putting my hands or my face in
a bowl of ice. That's super helpful, just shocking your
nervous system and making you calm down. Another thing is
the tapping. I love tapping. It is really calm and
you don't even realize it's working until you're already calmed down.
(19:34):
Since I'm not the best at using the tools all
the time, those are great emergency tools that I use
for when I'm not in the best space. But I
know I can be better for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I mean we all can. We all can, right, Like,
there's always other things we can be doing, but I
appreciate you sharing those. So what kind of things have
you refused to compromise on in terms of growing as
an artist?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I refuse to compromise on my morals. I have not
worked with people. Damn, I've gotten in trouble before publicly
for saying things like this, But I have not worked
with people that I don't agree with their politics or
(20:27):
I don't agree with how they treated women, black women,
women of color, LGBTQIA plus community. I go hard when
it comes to things that are political or things that
seem political that should not be political, and refuse to
compromise on that. I think there are a lot of
people that I could work with that would help my career,
(20:52):
but I just refuse to invite them into my space,
Like that's cool whatever they're doing. They're doing, but my
audience comes to this space, this music space that I
created and my team have created where they feel comfortable,
they can be vulnerable and be their authentic selves. I
(21:14):
never want people that are listening to my music to
feel like they don't belong. So those people just don't
belong in my space, and I refuse to compromise on there.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
More from our conversation after the break, has anything surprised
you about the way that your fans have reacted to
your most recent work?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
You know what, No, they support me no matter what,
and I'm so grateful for them. I feel like I
could put out us oh horrible song. I mean, I
have put out some horrible songs in my opinion, and
they love them. So yeah. I feel like they always
find a reason why things make sense for them to
(22:06):
listen to any song I put out, and it makes
them feel heard in some way. So yeah, I'm not
surprised at all. I think some of the songs that
they cling on to the most maybe I'm surprised about,
but I'm not surprised that they love it because they
always have my back, so it's really sweet to them.
(22:26):
I love them so much.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
So what advice would you have for other young women
of color who maybe are coming up in the entertainment
industry wanting to maintain their sense of autonomy and you know,
kind of stick to their values in terms of what's
important to them.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
The best advice I can give, and I always give this,
But it doesn't matter because no matter how many people
it reaches, or how many people hear it, or how
many times they needed to hear it, it matters. No,
it's not a bad word. I grew up thinking that
everybody else in the room is smarter than me, has
better ideas than me, and that put me in some
(23:09):
really vulnerable spaces. And I always felt like, because everybody
else is smarter than me or knows more than me,
me saying no or having an opinion is bad. It
felt like the worst thing I could possibly do, especially
being a younger person in all these rooms and a
(23:29):
lot of times with grown men. So yeah, I would say,
your ideas are as important, your autonomy is as important,
your mental health is as important as anybody else is
in the room. No, it's just a word. It's not
a bad word. You can say.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
No, what do you feel like? Is one thing? You
want more people to know about what it means to
live with a bipolar disorder.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That or not just difficult or overly emotional or dramatic
I've lived my life being a very sensitive person and
an empathetic person, and I think sometimes how deeply I
feel things has been maybe misconstrued as me being dramatic,
(24:25):
and then it also caused me at times to shut
down and not share my thoughts or feelings, and then
you know, I would be spiraling and having all these
negative thoughts to myself and not know how to escape
it because of I guess the shame that I felt
to be feeling things so deeply or being labeled dramatic.
(24:46):
So yeah, I would just say being more understanding and
realizing that a lot of people with bipolar do feel
things deeply, which is a blessing, but you know, it's
also something that we struggle with and it's not just
something to be like joked about or judged. So yeah,
(25:10):
I would say, us feeling things deeply is beautiful. But
but we're not just being dramatic. There's more going on.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
So what do you feel like your fans in the
greater community can expect from you? You've already taken us
on these depths of vulnerability with cutting ties. Where can
we expect you to take us next?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
There's a lot of anger I need to get out.
A lot of my music is like really telling people off,
but I think there is an even darker side to me.
Like I love boxing because I feel like it's one
of the outlets I have that allows me to just
like fuck some shit up. You know, I'm allowing that
(26:00):
to come into my music. I fell out of love
with music for a while, and I think a way
to find myself back into loving music was bringing this
dark side and this love I have for like horror
and creepy things. And I was able to inject that
a little bit into cut Ties. But this next era,
(26:22):
I want people to really be able to see the
true darkness and horror come out. So that's probably the
most information I've given about this next era. But yeah,
I can't wait to show people a darker and even
angrier side that I just need to let out in
the music. So I don't do a hander life.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Thank you. We definitely want you to keep it on
the music. So one last question, what's a lyric from
cut Ties that you feel like is the most honest
version of you?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Ooh, excuse me while I get a little wholesome. I'm
not used to this emotion. Whenever I've been in like
vulnerable and like lovely sweet situations. I make things very
difficult and I try to make it easier for the
other person to run, and if they don't, I run
(27:22):
because I'm a very anxious, avoyant, attachment person. So yeah,
feeling nice emotions is like something that makes me want
to throw up, but I've tried to it a little
bit more. My partner is like the kindest person and
is always willing to give more and more, and yeah,
(27:45):
I couldn't ask for a better partner. And when we
first started talking, I was like, he was just being
so nice and acts of service is his first love language.
And I was just like, I'm so scared that you're
love following me right now. And I was just open
about it, like I was. He was like you, I'm
scared that you're love flling me, and he was like,
I understand that. And I think part of that was
(28:06):
my guard up of being like I can't be emotional,
I can't be vulnerable. I don't want to let this
person in. But the more I let him in, the
more I fell in love and realized that he loved
me genuinely too, and wasn't trying to use me you
love v on me, So yeah, I think I think
there's a funny part to that and also very deep parts.
(28:27):
So yeah, I would say that lyric.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, that's a good one. Well, thank you so much
for spending some time with us today, Keanu. Please let
us know where can we stay connected with you? What
is your website as well as any social media channels
you'd like to share?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, everything is at Kanalladay ki A, NA L E
D E. And then Keanalladay dot com. I think is
my website. If not, you can find it on Instagram. Perfect.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Well, we should include that in our show notes. Thank
you so much, great, thank you. I'm so glad Keana
was able to join me for this conversation. To learn
more about her and her work, be sure to visit
the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash
tvgu and don't forget to text this episode to two
(29:16):
of your girls right now and tell them to check
it out. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com
slash directory. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at
Therapy for Black Girls and come on over and join
us in our Patreon For exclusive updates, behind the scenes content,
and much more. You can join us at community dot
(29:37):
Therapy for blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by
Elise Ellis, indichu Wu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done
by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me
again for this special TVGU episode. I look forward to
continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Take good care,
Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for another
episode of Therapy for Black Girls University. We'll get right
into our conversation afterword from our sponsors. For this episode,
I have the pleasure of sitting down with singer, songwriter
and actress Keana Ledey for a deeply honest and heartfelt conversation.
(00:32):
We talked about her journey with bipolar disorder, how she's
learned to navigate her diagnosis with compassion, and the ways therapy,
boundaries and connection have supported her along the way. We
also explored the emotional world of her deluxe album Cut
The Ties, and the themes of self love, closure, and
transformation that run throughout the project. She opened up about
(00:53):
the creative process behind her music, the tenderness requires to
tell the truth about her experiences and what is means
to heal while still being in the public eye. If
something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share
with us on social media using the hashtag TBG in Session.
Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Kiana.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Of course, thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, so I love some story by hearing you talk
a little bit about what do you feel like is
most important for people to understand about you, both professionally
and creatively at this moment in your life.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I think the most important thing that people should know
about me is that I'm figuring it out. I'm a
human being, just like everybody else. And one of the
things that I learned, and I know my mom has
told me that she's learned, and like everybody learns as
they get older, is that you don't know what you're doing,
(01:53):
and you think that all these people that are older
than you have the shit together. I just learn as
I get older, the older I get, the less I know.
So that bleeds into my professional life too, because I
am my profession So not to judge me too much, please,
(02:17):
I am really trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, you know, I appreciate you saying that, because I
think we're all figuring out. You're right, your mom is right,
You're right, everybody's right, like we don't all know what
we're doing. We're just going day by day trying to
figure it out. But I think the interesting part of
you know the work that you do in other artists
is that you're figuring it out very publicly, right, you
just did like, oh, don't judge me. So what kinds
(02:40):
of things do you feel like help you to figure
it out?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I think the people that I surround myself with really helps.
I have a partner that's really great, and my manager
is amazing. I make sure to surround myself with people
that I don't feel judged by and that have patience
with me, I think is the most important part. There's
(03:08):
patience and there's understanding because I'm learning so much more
about myself every single day, and it's been interesting realizations
and struggles that I've uncovered over the last couple of years.
So being able to have a community that gives me
grace is everything.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Are there things in particular that you feel like people
have been very judging about as it relates to you.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So I did a mushroom trip the other day and
I realized that I actually have this like deep fear
of judgment even if people aren't judging me. I group
doing pageants, so and I've been doing this since I
was fourteen, so I'm used to the judgment and having
people that are hyper critical, and I think I've taken
(03:58):
that on as something that I am fearful of and
things that I push on myself. So I'm major imposter syndrome,
and so I don't even necessarily think it's other people
judging me. I think I just have this extreme fear
of judgment.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
H That makes a lot of sense, But also what
bravery to feel that and still put yourself out there
the way that you do through your artistry.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Thank you. I feel like I have no choice. This
is just clam so I help people enjoy it. I
hope it's at least entertaining and at the very least
right at the very least.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So the name of your latest project is Cutting Ties,
which I think is a very powerful title. What do
you feel like you were cutting ties with in either
your personal or professional life that led to that title.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I was letting go of a lot of relationships, not
just one, but a lot of relationships that were talks
and a part of my life for eight years because
I had so many changes in my environment and my
mental health changed so much. I realized that longtime friends
(05:14):
aren't forever friends. They don't have to be, and relationships
can get really sticky and you can feel super stuck
in them, but you don't have to stay stuck in them. Yeah.
I think as I was growing into myself, I grew
more of a voice, and that meant that I might
have to cut ties with people. I'm a super loving
and understanding, non judgemental, open person, but once somebody crosses
(05:40):
that line, I'm very unforgiving. And I think I've had
to learn whether the unforgiving is being unforgiving or just
not forgetting, and what the boundary is of being able
to give people chances but also know when it's time
to stop.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I feel like that's a conversation lots of people have
been having around, you know, like when is it time
to let go of a friend? How do you know?
And I hear you saying that you know, you had
some difficult conversations and then at some point realize, Okay,
boundaries have been crossed and I have to choose myself
in this case.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, So what on the deluxe album, Like, what did
you feel like was left unsaid from the standard version
of cutting ties to the deluxe version? What more were
you able to say on the deluxe.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, first, I mean, I'm just so happy with the
people that came on to do the album. I love Queen,
I love Chloe, I love Beja. They're all great people.
I tried it just a big thing about me because
I try to keep myself surrounded by really good, genuine people.
And I loved having them on there because I loved
working with them and they are amazing people. I think
(06:52):
the last song that I have on there, called Jerry,
is a song that was supposed to be on the
next project that we have already finished, and it didn't
quite make the cut, and my manager was like, this
has to go somewhere, like we have to put it out,
and it ended up being like the perfect transition song.
I think you hear a lot of my mourning, almost
(07:14):
like you see the love, you see the morning, and
then you see when I start to set boundaries, and
I think, now after the boundaries, I don't know about you,
but I feel resentment coming after I put down the
boundaries because I'm like, I gave you so many chances
and I was so loyal and so genuine. I'm excited
to show people more of the resentment feeling that they
(07:38):
get from jury. Going into the next.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Project, I found that the resentment is sometimes, you know,
a lot of times related to other people, but there's
also some like resentment for myself, like when I have
not oh, I stored myself right, Like is that a
part of the process as well?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yes? Absolutely, I mean I shamed myself all the time,
I think being a brown black girl, you know, dealing
with mental health struggles my entire life, I've learned to
shame myself. Really well, it's really hard to forgive yourself
when you let people in and they let you down,
(08:17):
for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, And what's the process of forgiving yourself in because
that has to happen. So what have the process been
like for you?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I think the biggest part of the process is understanding
that I did the best I could with the tools
I was given. My therapist says that to me all
the time, giving myself grace, speaking to my therapist and
really connecting with my inner child and realizing like I
(08:47):
was given all of these tools that are not necessarily
always useful or helpful, and one of those is like
being self aware, but sometimes being painfully self aware and
knowing when it's time to stop therapising myself and let
my therapist guide me through that.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
That's such a hazard, right especially, I mean, you've talked
very openly about your mental health journey, about your therapists,
your experiences with multiple therapists, and so at some point
you do have to realize like, Okay, I can just
be a human, Like everything is not like a self
assessment and picking myself apart.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
How do you feel like mixing your mental health journey
with your creative journey? Like how has that shown up
been your work?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I had this realization the other day. When I was
a kid growing up, it was a very toxic living situation,
and I realized that I was just a really sad kid.
I was dealing with depression. I remember like my first
major depressive episode when I was like twelve. I realized
(09:53):
that music was not the thing that made me happy.
It's a thing that made me feel comfortable with being sad.
And I've been taking that with me. You know, I
go through different shifts in my journey, and I go
down different packs and I learn more about myself, so
(10:13):
my music just but I think the thing that remains
the same is my authenticity. When it comes to the
sad music. Those are the things that make me feel
the best. They feel good when I'm performing them. It
makes people cry, and it makes me cry, and then
being super honest about my mental health, being honest about
my sexual abuse, Like all these things are the only
(10:37):
things that make me feel comfortable in music still, So yeah,
I think being super vulnerable and open and genuine is
the thing that makes me feel like the music matters more.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
From our conversation after the break, So what has it
been like as an artist living with a bipolar disorder.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I think the thing that I've struggled with the most
is I take everything very personally, and I think that's
a huge trigger for my bipolar And I also don't
have a lot of time where I can sit and
check in with myself. Having basically zero time for so
(11:29):
many years just working my ass off in a very
inconsistent and unpredictable environment made me not take care of
my mental health and not understand what was going on.
But when I got on medication, I was really scared
to get on medication because I was like, it's going
(11:49):
to take away my creativity. I think that's a huge
struggle too. I think I was in denial for years
about what was going on because I was like, I
didn't I don't want it to take away my drive.
I don't want it to take away my creativity because
a lot of the music that I wrote that I
felt the best about came from sadness, but it ended
up making the music better because I wasn't dealing with
(12:10):
all these extra thoughts. I think the bipolar magnified even
more my fear of judgment because I had a lot
of really negative, downspiraling messages I was telling myself constantly,
so hearing negative things and then telling myself negative things
(12:31):
on top of that constantly. It became really tough. There were,
of course, what I thought were great moments at the
time when I felt like I was on top of
the world in my career, and I felt like I
was on top of the world personally. You know, mania
is a very real thing, and if you're bipolari to
(12:51):
understand mania, feels amazing at the time, and then you
realize that there's a huge crash and that was affecting
my health a lot when I was having rough times
in my career and rough times mentally. So yeah, yeah,
it's I think the unpredictability in general and my fear
of judgment were the hardest things to deal with. For sure.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I appreciate you sharing so honestly about your fears about
taking medication, because I think it is a huge thing
for people who are creative, right, like, how is this
going to change my creativity? Am I gonna be the same?
What kinds of things helped you to confront that fear
and to become okay with taking the medication.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
So I had a couple people tell me that I
was bipolar for years since I was twenty, And then
when I was twenty twenty three or twenty four, there
was a song I wrote about depression called Heavy, and
(13:54):
I had Jennifer Lewis, who's really open about her mental
health struggles, on the song. I took a clip from
a podcast that she did that my mom had sent me,
and I asked to put it on a song, and
she asked to meet with me. So I went to
her house and I was talking to her and I
was just telling her what I was going through and
she was like, bit your bipolar And I was like, no,
(14:15):
I'm not. She was like, yes you are. And she's
also bi polar, and she was like, yes you are.
She told me to read her book and call her
as soon as I'm finished, and that she's not going
to reach out to me because I'm not going to
change until I'm ready. I'm not going to look for
help until I'm ready. And I hadn't had a therapist
yet that I trusted and I didn't call her, so
(14:37):
I was in denial for sure. And I had another
therapist before that was white, and I felt like she
didn't really understand family dynamics, so she couldn't really understand me,
and she didn't understand my experience. And then a couple
of years later, I ended up being referred to a
black female therapist and that changed everything. The way that
(15:00):
she approached things was also very different, Like she asked me,
what would you do if I told you you were
bit polar? And I think at that point I was
so low and being told by somebody I felt super
comfortable with and I trusted, my mind started to open
(15:21):
up a little more and I just said, I think
I just laughed, Like anytime she tells me something, I
just laughed. How to respond to it? It's like when comfortable,
you know, nervous anxious response, I guess. And when I
(15:44):
accepted the diagnosis, she kind of was like trying to
help me figure out how to manage things without medication,
but I think at some point I was just so
desperate to feel better, and she helped me get into
(16:06):
this mindset of like, am I gonna live like this forever?
Or would I rather just try something because I have
nothing to lose. And that put me into a very
vulnerable space that I was really scared to be in,
but also opened my mind, and she referred me to
(16:30):
a psychiatrist, and then I had my first conversation. It
felt like I was breaking the seal, like I was
just like, all right, let's try it. Let's see what happens.
And I know I can get off of it if
I need to, but I might as well just try
something because there are no other options at this point.
I'm either gonna just live like this forever or try
to change something in some way. So yeah, then I
(16:55):
tried the first medication, and I had to realize also
that it was going to take a couple tries. Just
like a therapist, you have to find the one that fits.
And took me a while, but I'm finally on something
on a couple few different pills that make me feel
comfortable and like I can live my life day to day.
And it was so magical. It really felt like magic.
(17:19):
Like I had lived my whole life having these negative
voices in my head things I was telling myself, and
I would look at it's hard to explain to people
that don't have bipolar. I would look at a tree
and I would be like, Wow, that tree is so beautiful.
Oh the leaves are falling off. Oh it's fall Oh
(17:42):
my god, I'm going to die like it spiraled so fast,
And that was my whole life. I lived my whole
life like that. So when things started to change and
my brain wasn't doing that, I was like, oh my god,
this is magic. And it just made me want to
keep searching for answers and yeah, and find different tools
and ways that my brain could live a healthier life.
(18:03):
And I'm so grateful I did that. So just breaking
that seal and finding somebody that is that you're comfortable
with talking to and that you respect getting that advice from.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, I'm really glad that you found a treatment plan
that has been working for you, because I know that
that can be rough, right when you're trying lots of
different medications, trying different things and you finally find the
thing that works for you. Great, So I know. One
of the things that is also really important for people
who live with bipolar disorders is to have practices in
terms of like staying grounded, sleep, hygien like, all of
(18:38):
these things that kind of help you to kind of
stay structured. What kinds of practices have you incorporated into
your routine that helps to support your mental health.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I definitely don't do enough. I know that there's more
and more I could do. You know, what's really difficult
is being in the moment and remembering the tools that
you have. When you've dear life for so long, just
trying to survive and be a warrior, it's really hard
to remember the things that will help you. And I
think the biggest thing when I've had really bad panic attacks,
(19:12):
one of the coolest things and the biggest thing that's
helped me is putting my hands or my face in
a bowl of ice. That's super helpful, just shocking your
nervous system and making you calm down. Another thing is
the tapping. I love tapping. It is really calm and
you don't even realize it's working until you're already calmed down.
(19:34):
Since I'm not the best at using the tools all
the time, those are great emergency tools that I use
for when I'm not in the best space. But I
know I can be better for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I mean we all can. We all can, right, Like,
there's always other things we can be doing, but I
appreciate you sharing those. So what kind of things have
you refused to compromise on in terms of growing as
an artist?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I refuse to compromise on my morals. I have not
worked with people. Damn, I've gotten in trouble before publicly
for saying things like this, But I have not worked
with people that I don't agree with their politics or
(20:27):
I don't agree with how they treated women, black women,
women of color, LGBTQIA plus community. I go hard when
it comes to things that are political or things that
seem political that should not be political, and refuse to
compromise on that. I think there are a lot of
people that I could work with that would help my career,
(20:52):
but I just refuse to invite them into my space,
Like that's cool whatever they're doing. They're doing, but my
audience comes to this space, this music space that I
created and my team have created where they feel comfortable,
they can be vulnerable and be their authentic selves. I
(21:14):
never want people that are listening to my music to
feel like they don't belong. So those people just don't
belong in my space, and I refuse to compromise on there.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
More from our conversation after the break, has anything surprised
you about the way that your fans have reacted to
your most recent work?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
You know what, No, they support me no matter what,
and I'm so grateful for them. I feel like I
could put out us oh horrible song. I mean, I
have put out some horrible songs in my opinion, and
they love them. So yeah. I feel like they always
find a reason why things make sense for them to
(22:06):
listen to any song I put out, and it makes
them feel heard in some way. So yeah, I'm not
surprised at all. I think some of the songs that
they cling on to the most maybe I'm surprised about,
but I'm not surprised that they love it because they
always have my back, so it's really sweet to them.
(22:26):
I love them so much.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
So what advice would you have for other young women
of color who maybe are coming up in the entertainment
industry wanting to maintain their sense of autonomy and you know,
kind of stick to their values in terms of what's
important to them.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
The best advice I can give, and I always give this,
But it doesn't matter because no matter how many people
it reaches, or how many people hear it, or how
many times they needed to hear it, it matters. No,
it's not a bad word. I grew up thinking that
everybody else in the room is smarter than me, has
better ideas than me, and that put me in some
(23:09):
really vulnerable spaces. And I always felt like, because everybody
else is smarter than me or knows more than me,
me saying no or having an opinion is bad. It
felt like the worst thing I could possibly do, especially
being a younger person in all these rooms and a
(23:29):
lot of times with grown men. So yeah, I would say,
your ideas are as important, your autonomy is as important,
your mental health is as important as anybody else is
in the room. No, it's just a word. It's not
a bad word. You can say.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
No, what do you feel like? Is one thing? You
want more people to know about what it means to
live with a bipolar disorder.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That or not just difficult or overly emotional or dramatic
I've lived my life being a very sensitive person and
an empathetic person, and I think sometimes how deeply I
feel things has been maybe misconstrued as me being dramatic,
(24:25):
and then it also caused me at times to shut
down and not share my thoughts or feelings, and then
you know, I would be spiraling and having all these
negative thoughts to myself and not know how to escape
it because of I guess the shame that I felt
to be feeling things so deeply or being labeled dramatic.
(24:46):
So yeah, I would just say being more understanding and
realizing that a lot of people with bipolar do feel
things deeply, which is a blessing, but you know, it's
also something that we struggle with and it's not just
something to be like joked about or judged. So yeah,
(25:10):
I would say, us feeling things deeply is beautiful. But
but we're not just being dramatic. There's more going on.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
So what do you feel like your fans in the
greater community can expect from you? You've already taken us
on these depths of vulnerability with cutting ties. Where can
we expect you to take us next?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
There's a lot of anger I need to get out.
A lot of my music is like really telling people off,
but I think there is an even darker side to me.
Like I love boxing because I feel like it's one
of the outlets I have that allows me to just
like fuck some shit up. You know, I'm allowing that
(26:00):
to come into my music. I fell out of love
with music for a while, and I think a way
to find myself back into loving music was bringing this
dark side and this love I have for like horror
and creepy things. And I was able to inject that
a little bit into cut Ties. But this next era,
(26:22):
I want people to really be able to see the
true darkness and horror come out. So that's probably the
most information I've given about this next era. But yeah,
I can't wait to show people a darker and even
angrier side that I just need to let out in
the music. So I don't do a hander life.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Thank you. We definitely want you to keep it on
the music. So one last question, what's a lyric from
cut Ties that you feel like is the most honest
version of you?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Ooh, excuse me while I get a little wholesome. I'm
not used to this emotion. Whenever I've been in like
vulnerable and like lovely sweet situations. I make things very
difficult and I try to make it easier for the
other person to run, and if they don't, I run
(27:22):
because I'm a very anxious, avoyant, attachment person. So yeah,
feeling nice emotions is like something that makes me want
to throw up, but I've tried to it a little
bit more. My partner is like the kindest person and
is always willing to give more and more, and yeah,
(27:45):
I couldn't ask for a better partner. And when we
first started talking, I was like, he was just being
so nice and acts of service is his first love language.
And I was just like, I'm so scared that you're
love following me right now. And I was just open
about it, like I was. He was like you, I'm
scared that you're love flling me, and he was like,
I understand that. And I think part of that was
(28:06):
my guard up of being like I can't be emotional,
I can't be vulnerable. I don't want to let this
person in. But the more I let him in, the
more I fell in love and realized that he loved
me genuinely too, and wasn't trying to use me you
love v on me, So yeah, I think I think
there's a funny part to that and also very deep parts.
(28:27):
So yeah, I would say that lyric.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, that's a good one. Well, thank you so much
for spending some time with us today, Keanu. Please let
us know where can we stay connected with you? What
is your website as well as any social media channels
you'd like to share?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, everything is at Kanalladay ki A, NA L E
D E. And then Keanalladay dot com. I think is
my website. If not, you can find it on Instagram. Perfect.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Well, we should include that in our show notes. Thank
you so much, great, thank you. I'm so glad Keana
was able to join me for this conversation. To learn
more about her and her work, be sure to visit
the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash
tvgu and don't forget to text this episode to two
(29:16):
of your girls right now and tell them to check
it out. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com
slash directory. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at
Therapy for Black Girls and come on over and join
us in our Patreon For exclusive updates, behind the scenes content,
and much more. You can join us at community dot
(29:37):
Therapy for blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by
Elise Ellis, indichu Wu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done
by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me
again for this special TVGU episode. I look forward to
continuing this conversation with you all real soon.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Take good care,
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