Session 444: End-of-Year Wisdom from Devi Brown & Dora Kamau

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a
licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to

(00:33):
find a therapist in your area, visit our website at
Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love
listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not
meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a
licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for

(00:57):
joining me for session four forty four of the Therapy
for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation
after a word from our sponsors. I'm really glad you're
here for this very special year. In episode, as I've

(01:18):
been reflecting on this year, all of his challenges, it's
unexpected terms, it's moments of grace, I kept coming back
to two conversations that felt like medicine for this exact moment.
These are conversations about what it means to fall apart
and come back together, about sitting with our pain long
enough to understand its wisdom about setting intentions that honor

(01:40):
who we're becoming, not just who we think we should be.
So today I'm bringing you a curated collection of insights
from two remarkable women, Debbie Brown, author of Living in Wisdom,
and Dora Camal, meditation teacher and wellness expert. Think of
this as your year in reflection guide, part permission slip,

(02:01):
part practice session, all heart. Whether this year broke you
open or built you up, or both, there's something here
for you. So take a deep breath, maybe grab your journal,
and let's close out this year together with some real
talk about transformation. You know what's interesting about the end
of a year. We're always thinking about what's next, new goals,

(02:25):
new habits, new versions of ourselves, But what about what
needs to complete first? What about the things we've been
carrying that need to be set down. When I talked
with Debbie earlier this year, she had just finished a
book that had been living in her mind and body
for six years, and what she said about completion, about
finally releasing something you've been holding, really stayed with me

(02:48):
because I think a lot of us are walking around
with unfinished business, unexpressed creativity and stories We haven't given
ourselves permission to tell. So as we think about closing
out this year, I want us to start here with
what completion can open up for us.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
You know what has been bringing me a lot of joy, truly,
the feeling of completion. This book that I'm going to
be talking about with you today. It had rattled in
my mind for six years, took me about two years
to do, and then when I finally turned in the

(03:24):
manuscript and got the galley, it felt like all of
this space came into my spirit and body. It's like
it was something that I needed to complete and share.
And as soon as that happened, I feel like I've
been given access to like new layers of my own creativity,

(03:45):
new layers of thought. I have space to think about
new things. It's been feeling really joyful. My body is
kind of getting used to it, my mind is getting.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Used to it.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
But that feels really exciting for me.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Tell me about the timing of this.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I wrote my first book almost eight years ago, which
was called Crystal Bliss, which was a beautiful opportunity and
I was able to share my passion for crystals, my
passion for meditation. But I had a lot of deeper
stories to share, and that was always known to me
that at some point I was going to share a

(04:19):
lot deeper perspective and look and technique and healing process
things that I had been working with personally, things that
I had amassed a lot of practice, and things that
I had used with clients. And so I felt like
God gave me the seed, the feeling, and it wasn't
so much about getting it done right away. I had

(04:41):
a few different iterations of this kind of come through
for about six full years, but it was really about
divine timing, and so God kept telling me watch, look, prepare,
write down, start creating this space for this kind of
creativity to tell these kinds of stories. But it was
it's really about finding new ways to kind of romance

(05:04):
my life a little.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Bit divine timing. That phrase keeps showing up, doesn't it.
And maybe that's what this year has been teaching us,
that not everything is meant to happen on our timeline,
That sometimes we're being prepared for something we can't quite
see yet. But here's the tension right in our culture
of instant everything, instant sharing, instant reactions, instant vulnerability. How

(05:29):
do we know when something is ready to be shared,
we've actually healed enough to tell the story without retraumatizing ourselves.
This is something Debbie and I talked about deeply, and
I think it's especially important as we reflect on this year,
because some of you went through things in twenty twenty
five that you're not ready to talk about yet. And
that's okay, that's more than okay, that's wisdom. How do

(05:53):
you know you are in a healed enough space to
be able to share about something on the written page,
Because there's like the feeling it, and then there's the
writing it and then releasing it for other people to
kind of take in. Right, So, how do you know
when you are in a place to be able to
write about you know some of.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
The things I knew when I came on the show,
these questions would be questioned, mean, oh my god, and
thank you so much for your words?

Speaker 3 (06:19):
My lord?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Do you know the feeling is mutual? I think I
have a few ways that I think I want to
approach this question. I know we are in a day
and age of like deep sharing and deep truth, and
as I was kind of walking through a lot of
the stories that I share in this book, I was
also in the midst of serving A lot of the
things that were coming forward were happening like immediately when

(06:43):
the pandemic started, and so that wasn't a place to
share from. I have a lot of patience for the
unfolding of life, and I feel like I am someone
that believes in sharing the wisdom and not necessarily steeping
in the pain and sharing the trauma of the moment.
Now that is not for everybody, but as a teacher

(07:04):
and as someone that helps facilitate and guide, I think
that's really important. I needed to metabolize the experiences that
were happening to me in my life. I needed to
be in process with it. Experience at first glance, you
kind of have to sift through the pain, sift through
the reflection, and start to see where everything is falling.

(07:26):
So I had to let myself be shattered in certain
respects and just let it all kind of be in
front of me before I saw, you know, what is
the rebuild, what is the learning? What is the work
that is in front of me? I believe deeply that
every single thing that happens to each and every one
of us serves purpose. And by serve purpose, I mean

(07:49):
literally serves a purpose in your life and in the world,
but also serves and informs your life's purpose. And I
felt like a lot of the experiences that I have
through some dark teaching in my life, like loss and
grief and betrayal, you know, those are things that are
meant to be deeply thought about and understood. I was

(08:09):
in a lot of pain, and I had a lot
of reverence for the pain that I was in, and
so I felt like I needed to see it through.
I needed to see myself be on the other side
of it. I needed to see the wisdom in it.
And then I needed to start sharing and teaching my
learnings in real life and seeing how those things were
affecting other people. And then I felt like it was

(08:31):
ready to be shared in the book.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
So let's talk about what happened this year. Maybe you
held it together, maybe you barely held it together. Maybe
you didn't even hold it together at all, And honestly,
that might have been exactly what needed to happen. I
know some of you are listening and thinking fall apart.
I don't have that luxury. I have people depending on me,

(08:56):
bills to pay, a life to keep running, and I
hear you, But what if I told you that sometimes
falling apart is how we find the pieces we actually
need to keep. This is what Debbie calls Permission to Shatter,
And it's the first chapter of her book for a reason,
because for our community, for black women especially, we've been
conditioned to hold everything together for everybody else, but this

(09:19):
year might be asking something different from us. So you know,
you kind of come out the gate swinging in this book, daddy,
Like one of the first chapters is you have Permission
to shatter, basically like to completely fall apart as much
value as I think we both recognize, I think for
our community, for the Therapy for Black girls community, many
people will hear that and be like, absolutely not. I

(09:41):
don't have time, right, Like, we are doing our best
to just hold it together. And so talk to me
about like the permission to shatter and the value that's
on the other side.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
And this is something I've thought about so much because
I think, especially within our community, we've just had to
be resilient for centuries, right, So it's like some of
our resilience and are forging through and our process and
our positivity, right, our ability to not be beaten is
what is our strongest pull in most moments, and it's

(10:14):
incredibly beautiful. I'm so grateful, so grateful for the generations
of resilience that have been burrowed deeply into my cells.
And at the same thought and point of that, a
lot of us alive right now. We're the first generation
that's ever even had a chance to feel. So there
are a lot of things that we're doing for ourselves,

(10:35):
and we're doing for our children. We are doing for
our parents that has just absolutely never been done before.
But it's going to change the flow of how we're
able to be ourselves forever.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
So we've talked about completion, about divine timing, about permission
to shatter and rebuild. These are the big transformative themes
that maybe define your year. But now let's get practical,
because transformation is beautiful in theory. But what about Monday morning?
What about when your body feels like it's betraying you

(11:09):
instead of supporting you. This is where Dora Kamal's work
comes in. And I love how her journey started not
in some perfect, pristine wellness space, but in a closet
literally hiding her healing practice from her mom, which feels
like such a metaphor for how so many of us
have had to find our way to wellness, quietly, secretly

(11:31):
making it up as we go. As we prepare to
move into a new year, I want us to think
about what practices will actually support us, not the ones
that look good on Instagram, but the ones that meet
us where we are. So you have done so many
incredible things you are like we talked about a part
of Handspace and the Nike well Collective, and I'd love

(11:51):
to hear just a little bit about how you got
to this journey of wellness in the things that you're
currently doing.

Speaker 5 (11:57):
Yeah, it's been a while. I started to meditate back
in twenty ten after experiencing a tumultuous relationship and really
struggling with anxiety. And at first my mom was like,
go to therapy or go to church. And I went
to therapy and it just wasn't a fit. It wasn't
a therapist to understood what I was going through because

(12:18):
I was high functioning, I guess. And so that kind
of sent me on my journey to understand my mind
because I had been i say, quote unquote normal up
until then, and then it felt like, you know, I
couldn't be in public spaces. I was afraid to talk
to people. My body felt like a foreign place to me,
and so I started to meditate, hiding in my mom's house,

(12:42):
in my bedroom, in the closet because she didn't want
any meditating or chanting or booting, none of that in
her house. And from there something just clicked about how
powerful it is to know that your mind can be
such a beautiful and yet destructive place. How the body
is always listening to the line and the mind's always

(13:02):
listening to the body.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
More from our conversation after the break, can we talk
about something real for a moment. This year might have
left some marks, maybe it reactivated old traumas, maybe it
created new wounds. And if someone tells you one more

(13:27):
time to just breathe or just meditate without understanding why
that might feel impossible for you right now, I see you.
This is why I wanted to share this part of
my conversation with Dora, because.

Speaker 5 (13:39):
She gets it.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
She understands that healing isn't one size fits all, and
that some of the most popular wellness practices can actually
be harmful if they're not offered with care and understanding.
As you think about what you're taking into the new year.
I want you to have tools that actually work for you,
not tools that make you feel like you're failing because
they weren't designed with your experience and mind. You mentioned

(14:03):
your training in psychology and as a psychiatric nurse. How
does that inform the work that you feel like you
do today.

Speaker 5 (14:11):
Yeah, I would say, you know, psychiatric nursing taught me
a lot about trauma sensitive mindfulness, I think, and a
lot of people don't know that it's such a privilege
to be able just to close your eyes and to
be with your body and your breath in such an
intimate way. And for people who are living with trauma
or experiencing trauma, survivors of trauma, that's a really big thing, right,

(14:34):
And even paying attention can be really harmful for folks
who are recovering from trauma. And so a lot of
what I do is trauma informed, as being a survivor
of trauma myself, but also recognizing that there are a
lot of barriers when we just ask people to sit
down and to close their eyes and notice their body

(14:55):
and their breath. And I wanted to make sure that
this practice was accessible to all people. So I'm very
grateful that I was able to be in psychiatric nursing
and work with people from all types of backgrounds in
that space. My last job was in addictions with women,
and that let me know, like, Okay, I can't just
go in there and tell people to practice compassion or

(15:16):
take deep breaths like safety trust are so so important
in those environments, and that informs a lot of what
I do today cultivating safety and trust.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Can you talk about some of the other things that
are important as a part of a mindfulness practice when
you're thinking about being trauma sensitive? Like, I know the
closing of the eyes is one that I think a
lot of people know, But what other kinds of things
are you paying attention to?

Speaker 5 (15:41):
Yeah, I would say agency and choice are a really
big thing, giving people modifications and different points of focus
in a practice. So again, if noticing the body is uncomfortable,
notice an area of the body that feels better. You
can open your eyes and notice an area in your
rumor and your surrounding that feels good to look at.

(16:01):
I think reminding people that they have control over their practice.
I think you know, when you go into studios, you
never really hear a teacher saying, like, if it doesn't
feel good, you could leave. And I always tell people that, like,
if this does not feel good in any way, don't
think that you need to be here to prove something
to me or yourself. Like that honoring of your body

(16:22):
and whatever it's communicating to you in the moment is
so important. And so I think reinstilling control for people
and their practices, not being the one that knows it
all and I know more than you, but really reminding
people that they are the expert of their own experience,
and normalizing some of the things that can come up
in practice. Right, why does it feel like I'm going

(16:45):
right back to the past and my practice, or why
is my mind wandering or I'm distracted or I can't
do this? And normalizing, like the mind is designed to
wander and to judge and to think, and it's really
important to normalize those things for people with trauma and
people not living with trauma and experiencing it in the
present moment.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
All right, we're here the moment. This whole episode has
been building toward because we can talk about transformation and
healing and practices all day, but at some point we
have to ask, what do I do with all of this?
How do I actually reflect on where I've been and
set intentions for where I'm going and listen. I know

(17:25):
there's a lot of pressure around New Year's resolutions, like
somehow January first is this magical reset button and if
you don't have your whole life figured out by then
you've already failed. But Dora has a different perspective, one
then I think will take some of the pressure off
and help you approach this transition with more grace, because
maybe the new year isn't about becoming a completely different person.

(17:47):
Maybe it's about continuing to become more fully yourself. As
we start to think about like the end of one year,
the beginning of a new year, I'm curious to hear
what kinds of things do you typically reflect on and
why do you think like this timeframe is such a
right time for like those kinds of reflections.

Speaker 5 (18:06):
Yeah, I love to reflect. I have all my journals
up until two thousand and fifteen, and so you know,
I hear a lot of people talk about how you
shouldn't read your journals once you write in it. But
I think that reflection part, that documentation of your life
can be really helpful to like show you that change

(18:27):
has been happening in your life or growth has been occurring,
because it's hard when we just keep it up to
our minds to kind of reflect in that way, Right,
There's so many different things I can also come up
in those moments of reflection. So I find going back
to my journals, looking back at all the things that
I've done, the places that I've been, the things that
I've accomplished, the things that I can be proud of

(18:48):
towards the end of the year helps me to also
look forward and set plans for the year to come.
So and I think there's a lot of pressure for
the new year because it feels like, no, no, there's
this thing about the new year being like a destination
or everything has to happen, like twenty twenty five, life
is going to change. And for me this could be

(19:09):
because of my practice. I just see it as a continuation,
not necessarily like the beginning and an ending. But it's like,
you know, it's just a continuation of like moment to moment,
a series of moments, rather than like this big catastrophic
thing that's happening. Because there's a lot of pressure in
that right, there's a lot of I learned the term
the other day called a rival fallacy. So it's this

(19:30):
false idea that when we get to a certain destination
will be happy.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
More from our conversation after the break, before we close
out this year together, I want to give you something
you can actually use, not just more information, but a practice,

(19:55):
something you can return to whenever you need to reconnect
with your intentions. When I recorded my conversation with Dora,
she led us through a beautiful meditation about how we
want to feel in the coming year, not just what
we want to achieve or accomplish, but how we want
to feel in our bodies, in our lives, in our relationships.

(20:17):
So this is my gift to you as we close
out this year. A few minutes to get quiet, to
get honest, and to plant seas for what you want
to grow. If you're able, find a comfortable position, if
you're driving or doing something that requires your full attention,
just let Dora's words wash over you as a blessing.

(20:37):
You can always come back to this episode later and
practice more fully. But for now, let's take a breath
together and set some intentions.

Speaker 5 (20:46):
All right, I'm going to invite you wherever you are,
just to settle in, so if you'd like, closing the
eyes or keeping them open to a soft gaze, and
then just beginning to notice your body and noticing if

(21:07):
your body needs to be adjusted, finding a position that's
most comfortable for you, and then just beginning to notice
the rising and falling of the breath, Feeling the body

(21:39):
expanding and contracting with each inhale and each exhale, and
arriving to this moment, Just noticing how you're arriving, Noticing

(22:00):
the thoughts in the mind, emotions and the heart, and
any sensations in the body. And then we'll take a

(22:22):
deep breath here, breathing in and breathing out, and again
breathing in and breathing out, allowing the mind and the

(22:44):
body to be soft. One last time here breathing in
and breathing out, and inviting you to imagine yourself how

(23:07):
you would like to be at the end of this
year coming up. How would you like to feel in
your friendships, in your work, in your health and well being.

(23:37):
Just taking a moment to reflect and envision how you
would like to feel. Also acknowledging any doubt or hesitation

(24:02):
to dream this big or maybe envision this far into
the future, recognizing in the mind there is no limitation
to what is possible. Also noticing if the mind maybe

(24:32):
has wandered, it's okay, just gently guiding it back to
this moment, to this vision, and to these feelings. As

(24:54):
you focus on these feelings, maybe thinking about a few
things or a few actions that you need to take
in order to prioritize this feeling. So, if you would

(25:14):
like to feel more arrested, or more joyful and more happy,
what are some things that you can do in your
days to reinforce this feeling? What thoughts would you need

(25:36):
to think? Who would you need to be surrounded by,
What are you saying yes to? And what are you
saying no to? Maybe thinking about the different boundaries that

(26:12):
need to be set or the different stories that need
to be unlearned in order to make this feeling a reality.
And then if you'd like resting a hand on the heart,

(26:36):
connecting to this place of kindness and compassion, seeing if
you can offer yourself a few words of encouragement or
affirmation that could sound like I am deserving of a

(26:58):
life filled with joy and happiness. I am worthy of
good things, or maybe I trust the timing of my life.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
What is it?

Speaker 5 (27:29):
Will take another deep breath here, breathing in and letting go,
and then just beginning to feel the weight of the
body pressing down into the surface beneath you, inviting gentle

(27:55):
movement back into your hands and into your toes, maybe
stretching the body if that feels good, whenever you're ready,
slowly and gently opening the eyes, just taking a moment
here to pause and notice how you feel.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
And there we are a breath, an intention, a moment
of stillness in the midst of all this transition. I've
been thinking about what I want to leave with you
as we close out this year together, and I keep
coming back to something both Debbi Indoor reminded us of
in their own ways. Transformation is not a destination. It's

(28:47):
not something you achieve and then you're done. It's practice,
a continuation, a series of moments strung together with intention
and grace. So as you move from this year into
the next next, I want you to release yourself from
the pressure of having it all figured out. You don't
need to be completely healed, you don't have to have

(29:08):
all the answers. You don't need to become a whole
new person by January first. What if you just carried
forward what you learned. What if you honored what you've survived.
What if you gave yourself permission to keep growing at
your own pace, in your own time, in your own way.

(29:31):
This year has asked a lot of us, and you
showed up. You're still here, You're still doing the work,
and that matters more than you know. Thank you so
much for being a part of the Therapy for Black
Girls community. Thank you for trusting me with your time,
your attention, and your healing journey. I don't take it lightly.

(29:53):
You can find more information about Debbie Brown in her
book Living in Wisdom at Debbie Brown dot com, and
you can connect with Dora on Instagram at Dora dot
com ol and find her meditations on the Headspace app.
As we step into this new year, remember you are
exactly where you need to be and I'm honored to

(30:16):
continue this journey with you until next time. Keep taking
very good care of yourselves. Happy New Year, y'all. So Jackson,
how do you feel like twenty twenty five has.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Been I feel very accomplished and everything I've done this year?

Speaker 1 (30:39):
What do you feel like has made you feel accomplished?

Speaker 3 (30:42):
I got a lot of things done. I got good
grades on my classes and homework assignments.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
And when you think about the new year of twenty
twenty six, what kinds of things are you looking forward to?

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Basketball? Summer break, food.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
So, if there were one word that could discord how
you want twenty twenty six to feel, what word would
it be?

Speaker 3 (31:04):
Locked?

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Ooh? Locked? Say more about that.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
I'll be more locked in next year.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Okay? Are there any well wishes that you would like
to offer to our community for twenty twenty six in.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
The new year, keep going, keep doing what you gotta do,
always get better every day.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Thank you, Jackson. So, Julian, how do you feel like
twenty twenty five has been.

Speaker 6 (31:26):
I feel like twenty twenty five has been a good year,
and I hope it's been a good year for all
of us.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
So what do you feel like has been really good
for you about twenty twenty five? Are you think okay,
what kinds of new things did you learn?

Speaker 6 (31:40):
Or how you do to digitby tuji multiplication?

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Ooh, okay, you were really proud of yourself for that, right, Yeah?
So when you think about what you want twenty twenty
six to be, like, what kinds of things come to mind?

Speaker 6 (31:53):
A better year for everybody and a happy year for everybody.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Are you looking forward to anything new in twenty twenty five?

Speaker 6 (32:01):
Quari cars?

Speaker 1 (32:02):
You think we're gonna have flying cars in twenty twenty six? Maybe? Okay,
anything else you're looking forward to?

Speaker 5 (32:07):
You now?

Speaker 1 (32:09):
So, if there were one word that could describe how
you want twenty twenty six to feel, what word would
it be?

Speaker 6 (32:16):
Gratitude?

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Ooh, that's a good word. What makes you say gratitude?

Speaker 6 (32:20):
Because I hope everybody is grateful for everything that they
have in life.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
All right? And are there any inspirational words or a
message that you want to offer our community for the
new year.

Speaker 6 (32:32):
I hope that y'all have a great, happy new years,
that I have a grateful new year, and that y'all
get everything that y'all wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Here A bad thank you, Julian

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Session 444: End-of-Year Wisdom from Devi Brown & Dora Kamau