January 31, 2025 • 7 mins
Aviation Expert Jay Ratliff on What Went Wrong in D.C. Crash
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
iHeart radio aviation analyst, a longtime professional in the industry. Jay,
I wish we were reconnecting under happier circumstances, but it's
good to have you here.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Amen to that, brother.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We've had almost thirty six hours now to digest what
information has come out, and obviously the investigation rolls on.
I've heard more theories than I can keep track up.
What's your best estimate of what went wrong here?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, you're right in the excuse me, trying to come
up with any sort of conclusive cause is a bit asenine.
But one thing that did strike me here when we
first had the accident was the altitude at which it occurred,
because it was my understanding that the military jets that
(00:46):
operated along that corridor along the river had a ceiling
of two hundred feet as they were using the visual
flight rules. If that is true, and the accident took
place at between three and four hundred feet, we can
start right there. The aircraft wasn't where it was supposed.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
To be, right. That's one thing, and I've heard that
credibly from others as well. Another thing, Another thing is
why would you be doing helicopter training missions that and
that close a proximity to the approach paths of so
many commercial airliners.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, they do it all the time. Yeah, I guess
this wasn't a new crew. These are people that have
flown for years and this was just part of their
annual recurrent training with regards to their service. And in Washington,
you and I both know it's nothing but military aircraft.
I mean they're everywhere, and so commercial and military share
(01:46):
the airspace there quite well. Occasionally, you know, you've got
to move somebody out of the way or make an
adjustment on a takeoff and landing, but they're very good
at doing it all the times. You and I've talked
about near missus last year year before. I don't recall
one taking place at Reagan. They were at other airports
around the country, but not to Washington.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Reagan right there was I don't know if it was
a near mess the other day, but apparently there was
a commercial airliner that had to reroot itself and go
around because of a military helicopter.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Oh yeah, that happens every day, and it's not a
big deal because if somebody's going too fast too slow,
air traffic controls get air on the side of caution.
And bounce them around ers or slow them down.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
What is a big deal if from the experts and
analysts I've been hearing jay as the air traffic control
staffing situation, what can you tell us about.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
That, Well, they were understaffed and did that play a
role in it or not? And I suspect we're going
to find out it might have, but I think it's
going to be a minor role because you had the
aircraft operating on visual flight rules, and multiple times during
the maneuver, as that aircraft was flying, they asked for
(02:59):
permission to containe you VFR operations and each time air
traffic control said you can, and then they referenced that
approach approaching RJ on final approach and asking if the
crew had that in sight, and the military crew said
each time they did, and obviously they didn't because they
(03:21):
had to be looking at another aircraft because they, you know,
ended up occupied in the same airspace as another aircraft
that I don't think that they saw. And when you
see you know, five or six or eight aircraft that
are lined up coming in for landing at night, they're staggered,
and you know, I think it's a beautiful site seeing
(03:42):
them all come in. But I think it could be
easy for a crew, with all the things that are ongoing,
especially in something that has that much light, to mistaken
it and look at the aircraft behind the one they're
supposed to be looking at and go from there. So
that to me wouldn't be an air traffic control issue.
But again, the investigations, you know, we'll get a preliminary
(04:03):
report thirty days and the final report in nine months
or a year. And best way to honor the people
we lost, curious, find out what happened, and then do
everything we humanly can to prevent this kind of thing
from ever happening again.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Can you believe the fever swamp? I mean, this is
just the world we live in now, but I mean
some of these people jumping to these outrageous conclusions. A
friend once said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and
to even come close to accusing anybody of something that
fary us here is irresponsible. I got an email here
Jay from Tommy said, wants to ask me to ask
(04:37):
you a question. I'm not sure about the terminology here,
but what are the TCAs equipment requirements for military flights?
Does that question makes sense?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
To you it does. The TCAST system is something you
and I've talked about. It's a traffic collision avoidance system
that is used if your aircraft is within a airspace
of another aircraft. You're told pull up, pull up, or descend,
and it's an automated system the cruiser are trained to use.
(05:07):
The problem is that turns off at one thousand feet,
so once you descend under that, that TCAST system is disengaged.
Now I don't think that there's a TCAST system on
the black Hawk because it requires a specific transponder that
I think, and again i'm outside my lane here just
a bit, but it would make it easier to spot
that stealth helicopter in track. I don't think they want
(05:31):
that on that particular aircraft. But now that TCAST system
obviously is on every commercial aircraft, and that's a great question.
The problem is it's turned off at one thousand feet
because think of it, you're coming in on an approach,
You've got airplanes on both sides. That TCAST system be
going crazy telling you to do a bunch of things
you didn't need to do because it would be seeing
these aircraft in close proximity.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Do you believe from your experience that after the all
of the black box data and the cockpit voice recorder
data is analyzed, that we will have a clear picture
of what happened.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
We will have a clearer picture. Yes, I don't know
that we will definitively know anything I want to, because
there's still gonna be someone knows a lot of times
with these it's not a single point, not a single cause.
It's a combination of things that led up to something happening.
So I've been asked, excuse McGarry about losing my day
(06:24):
and a half, but the flight crew had for American
Airlines had to change runways kind of at the last minute,
No big deal. They're trained to do that and that
was not an issue at all, and they were very
confident crew and they were executing what they were doing
as required. So yeah, just a horrific situation. And I
(06:45):
just I'm glad it's been sixteen years since we've had
to talk about something like this because it's just terrific.
And my biggest fear is we'll find out that it
was a very preventable accident, and that will make it
even even worse than it is now.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
We have some clarity. Jay, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Always go to have you on, It's my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's Jay Ratliffe, iHeart Media Aviation analyst here on KFABS
morning
iHeart radio aviation analyst, a longtime professional in the industry. Jay,
I wish we were reconnecting under happier circumstances, but it's
good to have you here.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Amen to that, brother.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We've had almost thirty six hours now to digest what
information has come out, and obviously the investigation rolls on.
I've heard more theories than I can keep track up.
What's your best estimate of what went wrong here?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, you're right in the excuse me, trying to come
up with any sort of conclusive cause is a bit asenine.
But one thing that did strike me here when we
first had the accident was the altitude at which it occurred,
because it was my understanding that the military jets that
(00:46):
operated along that corridor along the river had a ceiling
of two hundred feet as they were using the visual
flight rules. If that is true, and the accident took
place at between three and four hundred feet, we can
start right there. The aircraft wasn't where it was supposed.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
To be, right. That's one thing, and I've heard that
credibly from others as well. Another thing, Another thing is
why would you be doing helicopter training missions that and
that close a proximity to the approach paths of so
many commercial airliners.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, they do it all the time. Yeah, I guess
this wasn't a new crew. These are people that have
flown for years and this was just part of their
annual recurrent training with regards to their service. And in Washington,
you and I both know it's nothing but military aircraft.
I mean they're everywhere, and so commercial and military share
(01:46):
the airspace there quite well. Occasionally, you know, you've got
to move somebody out of the way or make an
adjustment on a takeoff and landing, but they're very good
at doing it all the times. You and I've talked
about near missus last year year before. I don't recall
one taking place at Reagan. They were at other airports
around the country, but not to Washington.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Reagan right there was I don't know if it was
a near mess the other day, but apparently there was
a commercial airliner that had to reroot itself and go
around because of a military helicopter.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Oh yeah, that happens every day, and it's not a
big deal because if somebody's going too fast too slow,
air traffic controls get air on the side of caution.
And bounce them around ers or slow them down.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
What is a big deal if from the experts and
analysts I've been hearing jay as the air traffic control
staffing situation, what can you tell us about.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
That, Well, they were understaffed and did that play a
role in it or not? And I suspect we're going
to find out it might have, but I think it's
going to be a minor role because you had the
aircraft operating on visual flight rules, and multiple times during
the maneuver, as that aircraft was flying, they asked for
(02:59):
permission to containe you VFR operations and each time air
traffic control said you can, and then they referenced that
approach approaching RJ on final approach and asking if the
crew had that in sight, and the military crew said
each time they did, and obviously they didn't because they
(03:21):
had to be looking at another aircraft because they, you know,
ended up occupied in the same airspace as another aircraft
that I don't think that they saw. And when you
see you know, five or six or eight aircraft that
are lined up coming in for landing at night, they're staggered,
and you know, I think it's a beautiful site seeing
(03:42):
them all come in. But I think it could be
easy for a crew, with all the things that are ongoing,
especially in something that has that much light, to mistaken
it and look at the aircraft behind the one they're
supposed to be looking at and go from there. So
that to me wouldn't be an air traffic control issue.
But again, the investigations, you know, we'll get a preliminary
(04:03):
report thirty days and the final report in nine months
or a year. And best way to honor the people
we lost, curious, find out what happened, and then do
everything we humanly can to prevent this kind of thing
from ever happening again.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Can you believe the fever swamp? I mean, this is
just the world we live in now, but I mean
some of these people jumping to these outrageous conclusions. A
friend once said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and
to even come close to accusing anybody of something that
fary us here is irresponsible. I got an email here
Jay from Tommy said, wants to ask me to ask
(04:37):
you a question. I'm not sure about the terminology here,
but what are the TCAs equipment requirements for military flights?
Does that question makes sense?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
To you it does. The TCAST system is something you
and I've talked about. It's a traffic collision avoidance system
that is used if your aircraft is within a airspace
of another aircraft. You're told pull up, pull up, or descend,
and it's an automated system the cruiser are trained to use.
(05:07):
The problem is that turns off at one thousand feet,
so once you descend under that, that TCAST system is disengaged.
Now I don't think that there's a TCAST system on
the black Hawk because it requires a specific transponder that
I think, and again i'm outside my lane here just
a bit, but it would make it easier to spot
that stealth helicopter in track. I don't think they want
(05:31):
that on that particular aircraft. But now that TCAST system
obviously is on every commercial aircraft, and that's a great question.
The problem is it's turned off at one thousand feet
because think of it, you're coming in on an approach,
You've got airplanes on both sides. That TCAST system be
going crazy telling you to do a bunch of things
you didn't need to do because it would be seeing
these aircraft in close proximity.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Do you believe from your experience that after the all
of the black box data and the cockpit voice recorder
data is analyzed, that we will have a clear picture
of what happened.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
We will have a clearer picture. Yes, I don't know
that we will definitively know anything I want to, because
there's still gonna be someone knows a lot of times
with these it's not a single point, not a single cause.
It's a combination of things that led up to something happening.
So I've been asked, excuse McGarry about losing my day
(06:24):
and a half, but the flight crew had for American
Airlines had to change runways kind of at the last minute,
No big deal. They're trained to do that and that
was not an issue at all, and they were very
confident crew and they were executing what they were doing
as required. So yeah, just a horrific situation. And I
(06:45):
just I'm glad it's been sixteen years since we've had
to talk about something like this because it's just terrific.
And my biggest fear is we'll find out that it
was a very preventable accident, and that will make it
even even worse than it is now.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
We have some clarity. Jay, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Always go to have you on, It's my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's Jay Ratliffe, iHeart Media Aviation analyst here on KFABS
morning
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