County Atty Kleine: 'Shooting Was Justified'

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're pleased to be joined for a few minutes this
morning by Douglas County Attorney Don Klein, who you have
heard by now if you didn't hear or see the
news conference yesterday, County attorney client determined that Deputy Jesse
Ronck's use of deadly force and the shooting death of
Janneta Abraham was justified under the law. And Don, it's

(00:22):
good to have you on for a few minutes.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Good morning, Good morning, Jerry Scott.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Can you give us just kind of the thumbnail version
of what the law requires, because I've said from people
who are supportive and critical in talking to people, there's
a very specific set of criteria under the law that
you need to be guided by when you make these decisions.
What are the basics of what you had to decide?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Sure, absolutely, the you know, the law's pretty clear, and
I can I can actually cite the jury instruction that
we give with regard to the use of deadly forced
to jurors if under the circumstances that they exist at
the time, that the person believed that the use of
deadly force was necessary against the possibility of them being

(01:10):
exposed to bodily harm or death. And if they have
a reasonable belief, a reasonable basis, they can use deadly
force that if there's an eminent threat to them. You know,
whether you're in your house and somebody breaks in, or

(01:32):
if you're a police officer who somebody else poses a
deadly force risk to you, then you have the ability
to use deadly force. And the jury instruction even says
that you may be if you have been wrong and
estimated dangers, does not matter as long as there's a
reasonable basis for what that person believed and they acted

(01:54):
reasonably in response to that belief. Right.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
This may be a a question more for Sheriff Hansen
than for you, but I'll see if you have a
take on it. From what the public has been able
to see, I think a natural question arises, why wouldn't
Deputy Ronk fire when he first saw the gun was
pointed at him instead of after that? Can you address that?

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Well? I don't know exactly what was inside of his head.
I saw his interview. I think he was exercising as
much restraint as he could under the circumstances. I think
he was hoping that this individual would just drop the
gun on the street there and put his hands on
the car, and of course that didn't happen, unfortunately, and

(02:45):
that would have ended everything right then, and I think
that's what Ronk was hoping for. This could have ended
very simply if the mister Ibrahim would just have complied
and just dropped the gun, and he didn't do that.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Scott Douglas County Atorney don Kline with us here on
news radio eleven t kfab Some in the public say
that the officer was in an unmarked car and suddenly
just came up on this group of individuals, and whether
or not he identified himself as a police officer, which
a witness and a bodycam footage said he did. Mister

(03:21):
Janidi Ibrahim here didn't know for sure whether it was
a police officer. Therefore, there are those in the public
that say that the deputy should have waited for backup.
He could have surveyed here from a safe distance and
took advantage of the situation to go out there and

(03:41):
just murder this kid in the streets. I've seen this
on social media. Is there any point to what some
of these people in the public have been saying.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Well, I think it's easy for people to second guess
when you're in that situation, and you've you've got to
make decisions in a split second when somebody's pointed a
gun at you in a car, even if he didn't
know as a police officer at that time. Just like
the officer said, he goes if he's willing to point
a gun at somebody who's just driving down the street,
I gotta I gotta do something about this. But there's

(04:13):
no there's no question. I believe in my mind that
when ron got out of the vehicle, he's got his
vest on, he's got the clothes on that that they
wear that anybody would know that this is a this
is a police officer. In fact, the person inside the
car said, you know, he ran because he knew it
was the police. So so I mean, uh, you know,

(04:36):
there's sure you can always think about maybe, and that's
something that I know that Sheriff Hansen will discuss about
tactics and what should have been done. But my decision
is based on what actions Sergeant Ronck took and if
he was justified.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
In doing what he did in that moment. In that moment, right,
Douglas County Attorney Don Kline's another minute here, what next? Now?
I know by law, it goes to a grand jury.
What is that process like given your findings? What happens now?

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Well, once I get a final autopsy report, then I
as the corner, I certify that a person died while
they were in custody or attempting to be apprehended, and
I certify that to the presiding judge, who then will
set it for a grand jury. And sometimes that takes
a while because they have to send out notices. It

(05:28):
takes about two months or forty five days to get
all the notices out to get the jurors. So I'm
hoping we can get done as quickly as possible, maybe
in the fall. I've got some other ones in the
queue also, and we'll try and get those citizens we can.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
So then they decide whether or not there are charges
or an indictment.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, they determine if there was any wrongdoing on the
part of law enforcement in the death of this individual.
So though they'll look at all the evidence that I've seen,
they'll have the law explained to them, and then they'll
make a decision whether they feel that there's enough evidence
there to indict. And it's also that whether you know

(06:13):
to charge somebody with the crime, you'd have to be
able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and you'd have
to be able to prove that wasn't justified in doing
what he did. So that's the rules that they look
at the evidence under, and then they'll have to make
a decision. There's sixteen people on a grand jury, twelve

(06:33):
of them will have to vote to indict to for
there to be an indictment.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Too bad it has to take two months. But that's
stress for the deputy and his family, and stress for
the Abraham family. I'm sure too. Don Thank you appreciate
the time this morning.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
You bet any time