IFH 834: How to Build a Screenwriting Career That Actually Lasts with Bob Saenz

Bob Saenz shares a rare, honest look at what it means to build a long-term career as both an actor and screenwriter. From his early days in theater and television to writing studio films and Hallmark movies, Bob’s journey emphasizes craft over shortcuts. He explains how his time acting on Nash Bridges became a hands-on education in filmmaking, shaping his approach to writing realistic dialogue, authentic scenes, and story-driven scripts.

The conversation also explores the dangers of ego, the myths of overnight success, and why breaking screenwriting “rules” can sometimes be the smartest move. Bob discusses how networking is about relationships—not transactions—and why patience is the most underrated skill in Hollywood. His story is a grounded, experience-driven roadmap for writers who want careers that last, not just scripts that sell once.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/indie-film-hustle-a-filmmaking-podcast--2664729/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
thirty four. Cinema Should Make You Forget You're sitting in
a theater, Roman Polanski.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
I am your humble.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of
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Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
On this episode, I have with me a actor and
screenwriter who has written Big Budge feature films. He has
written indie films, he has pitched a Hallmark and he
has also acted in indie films. And he's also active
in David Vincher Zodiac, which I didn't even know as
we find out about this during this interview. He did
the voice of a video game that I loved as

(02:15):
a kid, Safe and Filter. Does anybody remember Safe and Filter?
He was the voice of the bad guy. I didn't
even realize until I saw as IMDb. I played the
hell out of that game as a kid growing up,
and we talk all about that as well with guest
Bob Signs. Hey Bob, thanks a lot for coming on
the show. You're welcome. You know again, you're person I've

(02:38):
actually wanted to have on here for a while. The
you know, the reason being, you're a working screenwriter. You're
out there actually doing it. You're always posting great advice.
So you know, I wanted to ask about your whole career.
And there's one thing I have to ask about right
off the bat. I see on here on your in
your acting credits. Actually, so when I'm gonna talk about writing,
you actually did voices for the game Sife and Filter

(03:00):
and Safe and Filter three.

Speaker 4 (03:03):
I did voices really for all the Stipe and Filter games.
I was the main bad guy. I was the man
in the shadows.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Oh that's it, Bob. I'm blown away. I think we
have to end the whole conversation right now. I don't
think we can peek on this.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
I sat in the Sony studios in Foster City, California
with a big gold microphone and did that deep low
voice for that guy who was the who ended up
being the Senator who was also the man in the shadows.
It was really fun. And what was great about it
is they actually paid me extra to stay an hour

(03:39):
and make death sounds for people who got shot and
got lit on fire and fell off twips and stuff.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
You know, it's just funny because I remember playing Siphon
Filter in when did that come out two thousand? I think, oh, maybe, yeah,
I remember playing that, and I just now it's just
it is amazing how small this world has become, because
now I remember I can remember everything about that first game,
especially that first game, and the fact that I saw

(04:11):
on your IMDb that you did voices for it. I
was like, I got to talk to Bob about this.
I just have to.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
I still get every once in a while the random
email from somebody who was a Seifen Filder fan and
there's actually some Siphon Filder, you know, group that gets
together and plays or something and they have a magazine
or something and had me wanted to interview me for it.
It was it was really funny. It's it's like the

(04:40):
video game that Wouldn't Die.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, And that's just a testament to how popular the
game was because again, that first one especially, I always
remember that first one was was just phenomenal, and I
remember playing that and just being blown away. Actually I
remember it coming. You know what, the first time I
heard about it, I ordered a pizza from Pizza Hut
and they had a free disc glued to the top
of the box for the original PlayStation and I actually

(05:05):
remember it going, oh, wow, this is pretty cool, and
I popped it in and that's how I played for
the first time.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
I've never heard that before. That's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, it's actually it was.

Speaker 4 (05:18):
Wow. Yeah, no, it's It was a fun It was
a fun gig, and it was really in The people
were so nice, the guys that produced the game, the
guy who was the voice director, the whole the whole
thing was just first class and it was really fun.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
So, Bob, just to sort of continue with this, you know,
when you moved out to la it was.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
One of your originals. I don't, well, let's get let's
get something really straight. I don't live in La.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Oh, you don't. Where do you live?

Speaker 4 (05:49):
I live in San Francisco. I have I have, I
have had this career totally out of LA.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
So so let me ask you, Bob, are the rents
is been in San Francisco as bad as they say?

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Yes, absolutely, my my, They're worse up here than they
are in LA. Up Here is like the the worst
rents I think in the country except for like Manhattan.
The My daughter as a friend who has a two
bedroom apartment in Mountain View right in their Google that's

(06:29):
like forty two hundred dollars a month.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Wow, you know, I mean, I just I have a
friend who also lives out there. He was actually on
this podcast episode four, I think David Heule, and he
lives out in San Francisco, and I mean he and
I were talking one day and he was just saying
how bad the rents were out there in San Francisco.
So more power to you, Bob, More power to you
because you're actually, you know, living in you know, in

(06:55):
making your career.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
I'm I'm I'm very fortunate. I have a house. So
it's that's part of the reason I don't also go
to LA. I also don't go to LA because I'm
happy where I am and I'm four hours away, and
I've never missed an appointment. And and I can come
up here and work out of my house and go

(07:16):
down there when I have to.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
So do you just plan like a long drive that day?
Do you just take just pull, get in your car
and drive there.

Speaker 4 (07:23):
I leave at five in the morning, I get there
about at the latest, about ten thirty in the morning,
and I can get a whole lot of work done.
And I usually stay for four or five days. This
time I stayed for five days. Last sime'snay for five
days because I had a bunch of meetings and then
we had two days of shooting of pickups and and

(07:46):
and VFX and EFX on one of my movies.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
Oh that's gay. And again it's cool you live so close.
And because I've always wondered if if you do live
semi close to LA like you, do you how do
you actually get out there? Because sometimes I've heard people say, listen,
I get in with a bunch of other people, we
all go down, you know, they or they do something other,
some other means of transportation to get there. But you know,

(08:12):
it's just good that you live so close and so
sort of taking a step back. The reason I was asking,
this was when you decided to move out to California,
you know, because you were Now you're in San Francisco.
You know, did you go out there with the original
goal of being an actor?

Speaker 4 (08:26):
Oh? I was born in California, so I've always been here,
but I've always wanted to be an actor from women
I was a little kid, and I was from the
time I was about sixteen years old. I was doing
like professional plays and musicals around San Francisco in the

(08:46):
Bay Area and was in the midst of a long
run in a show called The Fantastics when I met
my wife, and it was one of those things where
you say, do I want to spend the rest of
my life with this woman or do I want to
be a poor actor? And I decided I would spend
the rest of my life with my wife. We've been

(09:07):
married forty two years. And so when I was about
four years old, after I had worked in a real job,
but a good job, but a real job, I went
to her and said, you know what, we got money
in the bank, and it looks like the company I'm
working for is not going to be around much longer
because they've been bought by somebody else and they're screwing them.

(09:30):
I think I want to be an actor again. And
when I picked her up off the floor, she said okay,
and I decided. Then people told me you can't do it.
You're not You're living San Francisco. You can't be a
professional actor at your age. You can't. You know, you
can't just change. And I said why not? And I've

(09:52):
spent my life saying why not to people.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
So it all worked. I got my SAG card in
a movie called Angels in the Outfield with one line
try throwing it over the plate. And I just marketed
myself and was relentless in my pursuit and ended up

(10:26):
with a with a recurring, very very very small recurring
role on a TV series. That's TV series that shot
up here called Nash Bridges with Don Johnson and Cheech Marin.
And I used my time my six years on that
TV show to work on my writing and get it

(10:48):
out to some of the producers on that show, and
it kind of all snowballed from there.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
So when you were reading the script for Nash Bridges,
like each week you know, you would get the script
for the latest episode, would you sort of analyze it
in different ways, Bob, Like, would you sort of put
on like a writer's hat and say, you know, I
wonder how.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
I would I said to myself, I can write better
than this crab and and and which was funny because
guys like Damon Lindwaff were writing for Nash at the time.
But but I I wrote an episode in Nash. That's
what I did, and they didn't buy it. But I

(11:30):
got a lot of encouragements from some people, and that's
that's what spurred me on to write my first spec feature,
which I optioned. So it's, uh, it's been a weird trip.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
You know.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
That kind of reminds me of Mike Beerman when I
when I had him on the show a few episodes ago.
You know, he actually said when he took his daughter
out to those auditions, he actually got the script and said, hell,
I can write better than this. And you know, we're
both a part of that of that writer's group on Facebook.
But it just it's just funny to me because you know, whenever,
because I mean, I said the same thing to myself. Honestly, Bob,

(12:04):
I said to myself, Hey, I can write or make
a movie better than this, and that's sort of what
sparked it. And then I got then it was proved
to me, was oh no I can't. I just sort
of but no, I'm just joking around.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
But what's funny, what's funny about the whole thing was
is I've been a lot of movies and I've I've
done a lot of just small parts and things, but
I've really enjoyed myself. And there are a lot of
movies I've been in that aren't even on the IMDb thing.
I don't even I don't add things to IMDb. If
if they're on there, it's not because I put them there,
it's because somebody else did. But I've been a lot

(12:39):
of movies and I've done, you know, some some pretty
fun acting jobs. But I found out i started writing
that I was a way better writer than I was
an actor. I have a very small range right now,
I'm holding my hands about three inches apart, and that's
you know, that's basically my range as an actor. And
so I found out I was much better rider. So

(13:00):
I'm enjoying that a lot more.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
So I have to ask when you were on the
set of Nash Bridges. Was Don Johnson a cool as
cool of a guy as he seems.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
Don Johnson has a reputation and sometimes I think unfairly
of being I'm not great guy. And all I can
do is all I can go by is my personal
experiences with him. And he was terrific to me, completely
terrific to me. And I was there for six years

(13:34):
and couldn't have been treated better. I came away from
that show with a lot of really good lifelong friends,
including you know we don't talk now, but including Don.
If I ran into him, I'm sure we would be
just fine. It was great experience. I was glad it

(13:55):
was over after six years because I wanted to move
on and do some writing. But it was a great experience.
I wouldn't have traded it for anything. I called it
the Don Johnson Film School. I learned everything I could
learn on that set. It was great.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
I like that name, Bob, the Don Johnson Film School.
I like that a lot. That seems like a hell
of a film school.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
It was. It was great. I went to him, i
think in the second season, and I said, look, I
want to learn everything I can about how this is
all done. So when I'm not working but I'm here,
can I hang around on set and watch and see
how each department does what they do. And he made
a little flann of the cross and said, bless you.

(14:39):
Of course you can, and and said that's how I learned.
So I did. I at one point, I learned about
why they used you know, which lens they use. And
I got to carry around the steady cam one afternoon,
and I learned from the sound eyes, one of the

(15:01):
great sound guys ever. And I learned about lighting and
what the grips do, and electrical and you name it.
I just and props and everybody. I got to know
and learned from them how they did what they did.
It was an unbelievably great experience and it's really helped
me as a writer.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
And that's something I wanted to actually follow up with Bob,
is when you're on set like that and you know
you're you're you're, you know, seeing everything through the lens
of an actor. How has that helped your writing when
you're writing characters?

Speaker 4 (15:34):
Oh a ton, It helps a ton, because I've I've
been on the other side of getting scripts where people
don't sound real like you get dialogue but you know
was written without anybody ever saying it out loud, and
and you you know, it's it's helped me not as
much with character, because I'm I really love to develop

(15:58):
character and my my scripts, but it's helped me a
lot with dialogue, a lot in having dialogue sound as
real and natural as it can be. It also helped by,
you know, by learning how to do exposition rather than
you know, having you know, on the nose dialogue drives

(16:20):
me nuts. So it's it's it's really it did. Did
you'd answer your question? Yes?

Speaker 3 (16:27):
That so because you know, I imagine when you're when
you're actually sitting down and actually writing a screenplay and
you're fleshing out these characters. I you know, we all
sort of imagine an actor playing that role. Uh, and
I imagine you when you're when you're writing this that
you're probably saying, well, what is the actor going to
be doing while they're saying this stuff? Should they be
sitting there? Hopefully this isn't sort of like what they

(16:49):
call a floating head scene, you know what I mean,
there's I'm sure because you're, you know, you have that
acting background, you could sort of take that a step
further and say, well, you know, I I know what
actors are going to say in a scene like this.
They want to be moving around or they want to
be doing something.

Speaker 4 (17:04):
I do it really, it sounds so funny, it's gonna
sound really funny. But I don't think about actors all
that I write. I think about servicing the story. To me,
everything is about story. I've talked to so many producers
and worked with so many people. Now, after all the
movies that I have been more than fortunate enough to

(17:27):
have produced, that the only thing that matters, especially in
a spec script, is story. They want to know if
they've got a serviceable story that people are going to
want to see. And that's when I write It's back.
That's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something that
services the story. Yes, I I if the character in

(17:49):
that story needs to move around during a scene rather
than just sit. Yes, And I think about those things. Absolutely.
What would the character be doing in this situation? They're
not going to be ye floating hints? Absolutely, But I'm
I'm a really really story guy and and I never
think of I never imagine any actor playing a role

(18:11):
I want to write roles that actors want to play
and that that to me is more important.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
So so, Bob, when you actually started to write your
own screenplays, did you grab any sort of books or
anything that to sort of use as like a sort
of a guide or anything when you when you when
you started writing?

Speaker 4 (18:31):
No, I didn't. I've never read a screenwriting book. I
know it's an announcement of most people, and they think, wow.
I read lots of scripts, and I looked for scripts
for for films that I loved and thought, how did
they do it? I read anybody's friends and neighbors or

(18:52):
whoever had a script, and read scripts to look at
and and most of them are bad. And looked at
bad scripts and thought, how can I keep from doing
some of these things? And I I just wrote. The
only thing I did was get myself a copy of
final drafts and to so that the so that the
formatting was correct. But otherwise no, I didn't. I didn't

(19:16):
read any screenwriting books.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Well that's amazing, because usually, you know, you do you
do something like you go out, maybe you buy uh,
you know, you know the big three that people usually buy.

Speaker 6 (19:26):
You know, well, yes, Sidfield and and the the the
awful Save the Cad and and whatever else you know,
the Hero's Journey I guess, and and no I didn't, but.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
I've seen Save the Cat writ more scripts than you
can imagine.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
Oh yeah, So so actually you know that that it's
actually interesting because you know, whenever I'm in a screenwriters
group and somebody brings up at the Hero's Journey or
Saved the Cat or what have you, I usually tell
them just to sort of put that aside, because I,
just like you said, it usually wrecks a lot more scripts.
The reason being is they're always trying to force these

(20:17):
things to happen that aren't organically there. If you know
what I mean.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
Well, like I said before about story, when you do that,
you can't service your story. You cannot you can't make
a story fit into a preconceived box, especially a good story.
We can talk about, you know some later on some
of the things later that where I've completely ignored story stories,

(20:44):
story rules, suppose it's story rules, and written some scripts
that I just wanted to write even though they broke,
you know, a ton of the story rules and those
you know, the one of those scripts is the script
that got me noticed and only I broke almost every
single supposed story rule going. And I didn't do it

(21:07):
on purpose. I just wrote a script that I wanted
to see.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
So, so let's talk about that, Bob. You know, you
broke every rule. You know, what was the script? And
what were a lot of these rules that you broke?

Speaker 4 (21:19):
Oh, it's called extracurricular activity. It just we just finished
filming the effects sequences this last weekend. It should be
out in the fall, maybe, I think. And and it
was a dream come true for me because it was

(21:40):
one of my favorite scripts I ever wrote. And the
director and I, well not it didn't matter what I thought,
but the director pretty much saw it for what I
saw it for and wanted to have it be basically
what I had originally written, you know, eighteen years ago.
So it it's been kind of like one of those

(22:01):
dream come true deals. So, and how did I break rules? Okay,
the inciting incident happens, you know, forty pages before the
movie starts. The main character, the protagonist, well, you don't
even know who the protagonist is most of the movie.

(22:22):
It could be one guy. It could be another guy,
but they both could be the antagonist you don't know,
and and the the main character who you don't know
if is the antagonist or the protagonist has no arc.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
So yeah, I could see that definitely breaking seeing what
rules that broke. You know, it reminds me to Bob.
You know, it's kind of like what what Tarantino did
with reservoir dogs, what Sewan Shane Black did with lethal weapon.
It was almost like, you know, I by the way,
I loved I actually loved to read the script, not

(23:01):
only see them.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
Are no whet when we get done, give me your
email alsocate.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Oh cool, thank you. I'm always interested in seeing you again.
Like you were just mentioning, it sort of broke all
the rules, but you use it as sort of you
use the break in, which I always think is great
because I think what happens is a lot of these
screenwriters write with all these rules and maybe to certain ways,
and they don't make the script theirs. So what happens

(23:28):
is they keep It's almost like imagine if ninety nine
screenwriters all were writing almost the same thing with the
same description, and that one other person actually follows their
own voice and maybe it's a little off the wall,
and it doesn't adhere to these formatting you know what
I mean, like this whole description thing, and all of
a sudden it's like, wow, look at this and it's
so different from the pack all because they just you know,

(23:52):
didn't go too crazy, but they they were able to
differentiate different entry eate themselves.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
Well I went pretty crazy. But but the thing about
it was is that I never let anybody tell me
you have to do something some way. My answer is again,
always want why not? And I wanted to write something
that was you know, that was me, that was different,

(24:21):
that was something that I thought might get the interest
of some people. And it did. It's it's literally even
though it is what I would consider to be and well,
well not what I would consider to be as much.
I had somebody who was one of the Hallmark producer
read it and tell me it was the anti Hallmark film,

(24:42):
and which I felt pretty good about. But she liked
so much that she hired me to write a Hallmark film.
So you know, you just never know where where something
you know one of your samples is going to lead you.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah, that's very true. And speaking of writing for Hallmark,
you know you've actually had written a few movies for them.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
Oh, yes, I have, I have, I have up to
right now, I have three Christmas movies for them. I
probably will have a fourth this year, we'll see. I've
got a couple of other films for them, and I'm
writing one right now. So they've been great that They've
been terrific to me. And the Hallmark doesn't produce any films.

(25:30):
There are a bunch of feeder production companies that that
feed Hallmarks gigantic appetite for films, and I've worked for
a few of them and it's been it's been really
a joy to work with some of these wonderful production
companies and wonderful people, and work with the Hallmark people

(25:51):
who are terrifically nice. And it's you know, they have
a brand, and within that brand and within the rules
for those brands, you know you have to color between
the lines. And if you learn how to do that
and still tell a good story, you know they want
to work with you.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
So that's actually my next question was, when when you're
writing for Hallmark, do do they let you come in
and pitch your own ideas or do they maybe have
something they want you to work on already.

Speaker 4 (26:23):
Now they let you pitch your own idea, well they don't.
The production companies let you pitch your own ideas. Yeah,
and then they pitch your ideas to Hallmark. And if Hallmark,
you know, goes for one, then you know they come
back and and and you write it or you will
you write write us back for them. And I've also
gotten jobs where they came production companies came to me

(26:46):
and said, here's our idea, we want to hire you
to write it. So they've come all different ways.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
And again that that's the power of networking, and it's
you know, obviously, you know you've been able to use
all these scripts as calling cards and again you have
such a great reputation you're able to sort of parlay
that in other work. Which is something that we usually
talked about on this podcast is how your network is
your net worth and basically how you're able to sort
of use your network by doing good work is really

(27:17):
critical of your success.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
Networking is a really really interesting thing. And I do
it because I like people and I like to I
like you know, it's it's fun to it's fun to
network and find new friends. But networking isn't about finding
somebody in the industry and saying, now, what can you
do for me? Networking is all about building relationships that

(27:43):
are true. That you meet people and you and you
get to know people and you and you build relationships
where you actually like each other. I have a lot
of great friends that I also work with that that
if they you know that, we can be honest with
each other and work together and with great relationships. And

(28:06):
it's easier to be nice than it is to be
not nice. Not being not nice takes a lot of work.
And I like people, and I like to work with people.
And the best writers, you'll always notice that work over
and over again, are the ones that know how to cooperate,

(28:30):
understand the business, understand that everything they write is going
to get rewritten no matter what, and and work with
the people and learn from the people that they're dealing with.
It's so easy to get jaded, and it's so easy
to get upset about all the rejections that you get

(28:52):
when you're in this, because I've had millions of them.
But you get to a point where you also realize
that the rejection is isn't personal, that they don't they're
not doing it because they want to get back at you.
They're doing it for a million other reasons that you
have no control over. So you have to you have

(29:13):
to set yourself up in a business where that business
the business is you and your scripts are like your inventory,
and you have to sell you And the only way
you can do that is being nice and cooperative and
a good person. And it makes it makes a huge difference.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
So that that sort of you know, mythos so to
speak of the screenwriter who is it's almost like a
rambling alcoholic or something and going into meetings and and
just sort of making demands. Those days are far over, right, Bob.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show, oh ably or the idea.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
There's there's a million scripts out there, and I'm not kidding.
I mean there's a million scripts out there, and there
are thousands and thousands of screenwriters who want to be
who want to do this. And yes, if somebody is
like uber talented, you know, they may put up with
them for a while while they are successful, but you know,

(30:28):
they stop being successful and their phone stop ringing because
they're not easy to work with. Nobody wants to work
with with with people who aren't easy to work with,
and and you just you just learn to you know,
learn to it. You just be the you treat people
the way you want to be treated, and it makes

(30:49):
a huge difference.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
Yeah, I can curve Bob. And you know, there was
a friend of mine when he does a lot of
a film work, both as like a producer and director,
and something he instituted finally when he was doing a
lot of like indie film and by indie film, you know,
i'll just classify that. I'm gonna throw a number out there,
one hundred thousand and under. Now obviously I'm just throwing

(31:12):
a number out there, but it's basically he would always
be astonished when like first time actors or first time
writers would show up and they'd have an ego and
he never got it because they haven't done anything. How
do you even know what if you're good or not?
He basically you know, And so what you do is
he actually made a rule no egos, and he would

(31:32):
send them a message.

Speaker 4 (31:35):
I'm sorry, Bob, that's a great rule.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
And well I can I agree completely because one of
the things I said to him was that is such
a great idea because what he says is in a
very nice way. He tells everybody, Look, we all have
had various successes and failures in this industry. Some of
us have worked in this industry for ten fifteen years.
Some people have just started working in this industry last week.

(31:59):
So just all sort of, you know, leave all that
at the door, and just focus on this project right now,
for better or worse.

Speaker 4 (32:07):
Oh and it's yes. And what's so interesting about it
is I had really early success with my writing. I
optioned the first script I ever wrote to a studio,
and boy, my ego went out of bounds. It was
out of control, and it was I regret it like

(32:28):
crazy because I think I really alienated some people who
were my friends at the time because I was just
such a jerk. And then the movie didn't get made, okay,
And which is you know, now that I find out
that ninety nine percent of all options films don't get made,
it makes sense that it didn't get made because it's

(32:50):
you know, your If you're that lucky one percent, that's great.
But but at the time, it was just like this
huge slap in the face and an unbelievable lesson to
me that to never do anything like that again. And
I'm kind of grateful now that it didn't happen at
the time, because I could have been a real jerk,

(33:11):
and I just it was a really really sobering experience,
you know.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
But I can imagine though, you know, Bob, when you
when you have such success so quickly, it was almost intoxicating,
you know what I mean, It's almost like almost a validation.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
Oh it was a validation. I mean, it still was
a validation that I could write, but it was you know,
I hate to say this, it was like too soon.
It was like three months after I wrote my first
BAC script. It ended up at PolyGram, the PolyGram Studios
to get made. And only because Universal and MCA bought

(33:58):
PolyGram Corporation for their music catalog and then canceled their
movie business and dumped all their projects that I got
it back. It wasn't honest way to getting made, and
and it was just this unbelievable shock of this happening
that that kind of jolded me back to reality and

(34:19):
out of the the jerkiness stupor I was in.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Well, yeah, because again I was just imagining, you know,
especially when when you get success that quickly. You know,
have you ever seen the movie Overnight, that's a documentary
about Troy Duffy.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
Yes, I have. I did, and it's it's painful to watch.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yes, especially with everything that you hear about the Weinsteins.
But they in that film looked like the good guys
because they gave that guy everything and he just pissed
it all away.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
Yep, yeah, I did it, and it was it was.
It was the Yeah, I didn't quite get that bad.
I didn't. I didn't get to that point. But but yeah,
it's a you know, it's a it's a movie that that.
There's a couple of movies about making movies that everyone
should watch. One of them is that one. The other

(35:23):
one is a movie that I absolutely love called American Movie.
Have you seen that?

Speaker 3 (35:28):
You know, a couple of listeners keep telling me to
watch it.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
I have not seen it yet, that you need to
watch that. It's about a guy making an ultra low
budget film. It's a terrific film. You know.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
I'm going to make sure to rent that right now
after we're off the phone, Bob, I'm going to make
sure to go either rent that or bite off Amazon.

Speaker 4 (35:50):
It's a great documentary just this. I actually it's one
of the few documentaries that I own, so it's it's
well worth it.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Yeah, I'm definitely gonna check that out. And I've you know,
and overnight as we were talking about, that's it. That's
another great one. And there's always that that joke about
making a movie because it for those of the for
those who've actually done it, actually going through this stake
of making a movie, they there's a whole nother level
of enjoyment because you're like I've been at that. There's

(36:22):
production meetings where tempers are flaring or I've been at
that point where you're so frustrated you go, why the
hell did I start this in the first place.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
Well, everybody's got to live through a first movie. And
that's the truth. I mean, if you're a director or
a producer or something, you have to live through that
first movie and see all those mistakes that you make.
First movies are like you know, in the most part,
first scripts there they're mostly to teach you a lesson

(36:57):
and not you know, go much further than that.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, and uh, you know that that's that's you know.
Another thing I always talk about too, is how you
make a movie. And always, you know, I don't mean
this way it sounds, but always tell people to aim
low for their first movie, because they you know, you
tell somebody may go make a movie, and suddenly they
want a movie with ten million dollars of stunts and explosions.
You're like, no, no, no, they think, think smaller so

(37:23):
you can actually get it accomplished.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
Well. Yeah. There's the thing about movies nowadays, and it's
really sad, I think, is the mid budget movie has disappeared.
There are movies that that that the studios make that
are one hundred and two hundred million dollars, and then
there's the five million dollar movie and lower, and there's
not a whole heck of a lot in between. And

(37:49):
there's about six six entities that can make the two
hundred million dollar movies, and and there's tons of producers
that can make the five million dollar movie movies. And
yet people, the new writers insist on writing these great,
big budget things that that there's no market for. There's

(38:11):
zero market for. Last year, somebody was telling me this.
I'm not sure that this is completely true, but last
year they said, in twenty sixteen, Disney didn't buy one
spec script.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Yeah, I could definitely see that.

Speaker 4 (38:30):
Yeah, it's that's the way it is right now. So
if you're going to write a first movie, write it
five million dollars or less.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, I concur you know. And as we talked about
Disney and buying all these specs scripts, you know, I've
seen that before too, where you know it's uh. I
was listening to a interview actually with the Weinstein brothers
and they actually said the best way to make money
in the movie business is just have a whole library
of films, not make another one, but you're just selling

(39:02):
the licenses and the content rights for you know, temporarily
selling them, just renting them out. And that's how they
they they would make a lot of money in the
film industry. So when I hear stuff about like Disney
like that, you know, I imagine either they're pulling back
from already established properties and I think Beauty and the Beast.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Oh they're all they're making. Yeah, all they're making is
things that are in there. They're from their back catalog
or the Marble which they own, or Star Wars which
they own, or Lucas which they own, and then they're
using you know, whatever else you know, they made Peach
they remade Peach Dragon last year. They I mean, it's

(39:41):
just there. They have their they're going to do their
their ride movies like Parates of the Caribbean, and they're
going to and they're going to stay away from trying
to do anything that doesn't have an already established audience.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
We'll be right back after a word for our sponsor
and now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, and that's why again, like guys like us, you know,
we like you're just saying, you know, the under five
million dollar budget. There's a lot more producers there. And
you know also as we talk about you know, Netflix
and Hulu and all these other you know, distribution channels,
there's a lot more ways to get your stuff out there.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
But still Netflix and Hulu and Amazon, if they're doing
things with you know, buying films or making films, they're
all on that five million dollars or less category. I'm
not talking I'm not talking about the TV the series
that they that they end up buying, but those kinds
of things. But Netflix and Hulu and Amazon are also

(40:49):
buying ninety nine percent of what they buy from established writers, producers, directors,
and production companies and people like that. When they all
start started, they were going to be open to, you know,
all kinds of new people. And found out that most
new scripts, you know, are from unknown writers are pretty bad.

(41:12):
And I had to regroup and decide to do it
the way the studios do it through agents and production
companies in that way, so it's it's not as open
as some people think it is.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yeah, that's an extremely good point, Bob, because I think,
you know, you're absolutely right, you know, because what happens
is when they do go out there and see all
these unknown writers, you know, maybe they're unknown for a reason,
maybe their scripts have never gotten better. For instance, I actually,
you know, have known writers and they they've written like ten, eleven,

(41:46):
twelve screenplays, and every single one of them, Bob, is
exactly the same as the one before it. And what
I mean by that is is literally it's the same
type of characters in the same type of situation, in
the same time, type of genre, and it's just the
same old The kids go in a house that's supposedly
haunted to prove it's not haunted, but it turns out

(42:07):
it is haunted, and they also dying one by one,
and that is that pretty much sums up all like
ten eleven of those scripts.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
When Amazon first got started, they had that let's be
open to everyone and let's find I think their idea
behind it was let's try and get all the great
scripts that the studios miss. So they opened up to
everyone and they had they said, please send us your
stuff and we'll read it all and we'll be buying

(42:39):
from unknowns. And they lost a million dollars on that
that deal and pretty much decided, Okay, this isn't the
way it works. We need to go to established producers
and production companies and writers and stuff. And they realized
that the having a an open submission policy left them

(43:05):
open to getting hundreds of thousands, hundreds of thousands of
scripts that they had to hire people to read.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
And most of those scripts probably were read before through
various you know, gatekeepers or maybe uh screen script consultants,
packages and script consultants and stuff like that. And they
all got passes.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
You know, so everybody, they all did. They all did.
I can't There may have been one or two that
the Amazon looked at and did something with, but out
of the couple of hundred thousand that they got, that's
not a You know, that's not a very good percentage.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Yeah, that's probably what less than one percent?

Speaker 4 (43:50):
Oh, it's it's probably less than a tenth of a percent.
You know. The the problem is is that is that
that there are when you set up an open submission
like that, is you also set yourself up for people
who have unrealistic expectations that they figure once they are

(44:15):
able to openly submit that, you know, they can sit
back and wait for the movie to get made. And
this is a This is an industry, especially for writers,
This is an industry of unbelievable patients. You have to
be so patient to try and be a screenwriter. It's
it's unbelievable that the average time between the time you

(44:39):
write a script and the time that it gets made,
if it does get made, is about eight years. Well
in the case of extracurricular activity, it was eighteen years.
So you know, it's there is no instant gratification in

(45:03):
this business. None. There are no shortcuts to get something done,
and there's no instant gratification. It is a long haul,
nose to the grindstone, thick skin business.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
And you know, actually I wanted to ask you too
about that. You mentioned nose to the grindstone. I want
to ask about your process, Bob, and how you know
you write screenplays. So when you know you wake up
in the morning or if you have a morning routine,
what are some of the most important things that you
do before you start a screenplay? I mean, do you
just start with a treatment, do you just go right

(45:40):
into it? Do you outline it all?

Speaker 4 (45:42):
I come up with a concept, and the concepts can
come from anywhere. I've gotten concepts for my scripts from
something my kids said to me. I've gotten concepts from
my scripts with conversations with friends. I've gotten concepts by
reading an article in a newspaper or or you know,

(46:05):
just thinking about what ifs and or seeing something when
I'm out somewhere and thinking, you know, what if and
and and coming up with concepts for for for whatever
I'm going to write next and and once I do that,
if it's a subject matter that I don't know anything about,

(46:25):
one of the first things I do is hands on research.
I actually go out and find people that do what
I'm going to be writing about, and I ask them
about how they do it and what they do. I
don't go on with you know, on h on Wikipedia
and on the Internet or look at you know on
the Internet. I actually go out and find people. I've

(46:47):
been I've been on write alongs with cops. I've interviewed
police chiefs. I've interviewed doctors. I've gone into hospitals, I've
I've gone I've done all kinds of things to get
a good idea about how things are done in the
area I'm going to write about, so that when I
write it, it has its basis in reality, even if

(47:09):
I'm going to write something that you know is completely
out in left field.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
So, Bob, how do you approach like people like you know,
the police and the chief of police, how do you
actually approach them about maybe being able to sort of
to get.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
Them to open up. I call them and they say, Hi,
I'm writing a script about this and this and this,
and I want to get it right. And everybody says, finally,
somebody who wants to get what we do right, and
they open up and talk to you. I was supposed
to talk to a police chief and a small town
police chief because I wrote something that had a small

(47:47):
town police chief police chiefent and I wanted to get
stories from him and ideas from him. And how it
all works. And I was supposed to have twenty minutes
with him and I ended up with almost two hours
because we were having such a good time and it
was it was unbelievably helpful in getting me to get

(48:08):
a realistic idea of all kinds of different things that
ended up in the script. So yeah, people, you'd be
surprised that people really want you to get what they
do right, so they will open up and talk to you. Yes,
I've had people say no, no, I'm too busy, or no,
that's ridiculous, but you know, you can always find somebody.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
So you know, that's actually something that I've done too.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
You know.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Actually one of the things that I did, Bob, I
went a courier at one time and I actually just asked, Hey,
is there any police officers that would want to talk
to me? And this is the reason why, and this
is what I'm doing. And I got like four or
five responses and I was able to talk to them,
and you know, it was it was amazing and just
you know, and that's that's right I did. I didn't
actually call up anybody in particular. I just put that
on courier.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
I think that's great. And you just do what you
have to do. You do, you know, you do, and
you might know somebody that knows somebody that does what
you're looking for. And it's just it's a matter of
just again networking and finding out about things. And then
if you have you know, if you're doing your your
your you know, and if I come up against something

(49:19):
that in the script that I that I don't know about,
I'll make an effort to find out about it, not
just make it up. I read a script one time,
unfortunately from another writer that took place in a hospital,
and when I finished reading it, I called him and
I said, have you ever been in a hospital? Because

(49:41):
nothing in this script would ever happen in a hospital ever.
And he said to me, but it's a movie. And
that was the end of our conversation.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
I just imagine the the hospital fight from Machete, where
where you know, all the stuff's happening in the hospital.
But then again, it's a movie, right yeah, but but
but you know, but that's of a movie and Machete
I I went in expecting, you know, you know, so
over the top, you know. So, I mean, I you

(50:23):
probably can't go into deep but was it just like
things like, was it a shootout?

Speaker 4 (50:28):
Was it just uh No, it was just it was
it was they were commandeering an operating room when nobody
was in there, which you couldn't possibly ever do. It
was it was a lot of things like that. It
was just it was just ridiculous and and there was
It was just you know, you could have a shootout

(50:48):
in an operating room if you wanted to, that would
be fine, you know, but you have to portray the
operating room correctly and how they how they work. That's
not and is great. I mean, that's that's Rodriguez, and
that's Danny Trejo. And by the way, Danny Treo is
a great guy. But that's that's a whole nother thing.

(51:10):
That's you suspend your belief something like that.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
So have you actually worked with with with Danny Treo? Bob.

Speaker 4 (51:21):
I was on a TV series for six years called
Nash Bridges, where I again like I had a really really,
really small part, but they had so many great guest stars.
I sat down with Robert Rodriguez one day and and
picked his brain for about twenty thirty minutes, Trey Hoo
was on and he was great. What a nice guy,

(51:42):
just a terrific guy. And I got to meet some
you know, I got to meet some some really really
fabulous people and some people that to me were like icons.
One of my favorite movies in the entire world is
The Producers, and the guy that played Han Fleeken, Kenneth Mars,
guested on nash once and I got to sit down

(52:03):
with him and it was it was unbelievable. And James
Hong from who played you know, Low Pan in Big
Trouble Little China guest start and I tell him, you know,
I'm not worthy, but it was. It was really, it
was really an amazing experience. Beyond that show. It was

(52:24):
kind of Forrest Gumpy. I got to you know, be
there and and and meet and see all this wonderful stuff.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
You can't see this, Bob, because it's a podcast. But
to my right on the on my right side wall,
here is a signed James hung headshot of him as
low Pan that I actually got a few years ago
at this event that he actually did here in Philadelphia Chinatown.
It was at this meet and greet thing and he
was one of the he was the honored guest, and

(52:54):
I got to meet him and it was in he's
absolutely phenomenal.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
Yeah, it's just great. He's really funny and he's really
you know, I said. I walked up to him and
I said, hey, I got to tell you something, and
he looked at me and went low pan huh.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
And so it was you're right, yeah, you're you're Cassandra's
father in Wayne's world too.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
And he goes, oh, yeah, uh no, you never came
never came out. No, No. All I can think about
is is is Jack Burton going with fire coming out
of his mouth? And that was it. That was it
for me.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
Uh. And see, that's such a great story, Bob, because
I mean I I've met him actually twice, and uh,
you know, everyone who's always met him has always been like, wow,
he's just he is phenomenal. And when I met him,
he was right before Kung Fu Panda two or three,
I can't remember which one. But he actually showed a
little clip and he goes, he goes, listen, everybody, he goes,

(54:01):
you can't video this, or or I'm going to get
beat up by pixelar. He's the picture is going to
come to my house and have ducked to me. He goes,
so don't you can't, you can't actually show this, And
it was just it was just funny because you know
the James Hung delivery of that line. So picture what
I just said as James Hang, and now it's funny.

Speaker 4 (54:19):
Yes I can, I can completely picture. But anyway, he
was great and he was fun on the show, and
it was really wonderful to, you know, sit down and
talk to him. So I've had it's been it's been
a really kind of fun, you know, experience to be
an actor in doing these things. I've worked with some
unbelievable directors I've worked with. I've been lucky enough to

(54:42):
work with Coppola twice and he as an actor, and
Ron Howard once, and Clint Eastwood twice and David Fincher
once in an amazing experience and I just it's just
been like Kismet and thank you God, you know, having

(55:03):
me be able to have these experiences, because I came
away from them a happy and amazingly educated about what
I saw and took in.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
So what was that project that you worked on with Fincher?

Speaker 4 (55:16):
I'm in Zodiac really, yeah, in the uh I got
it's great. I got a letter from Warner Bros. Right
after I did it, and it said, you're in the movie.
Come down to the premiere. We can't wait to see you.
Looking forward to it. We'll give you the information when

(55:36):
we get it. And then a couple of weeks later,
I got a letter saying they cut eighteen minutes out
of the movie and your three minutes are in those
eighteen minutes, and thank you very much, and please don't
come to the premiere. So I thought, okay, well, I've
been cut out of you know, worst movies, and I

(55:58):
you know, it was one of those things you can't
take the experience away. But I was hoping. And then
I got a check, a residual check, and if you're
not in a movie, you shouldn't get a residual check.
So I called my agent and I said, I got
a residual check, but I don't supposed to get it.
I don't want to cash it. And she said hold on,
and she checked, and she came back and said, you're

(56:19):
in the director's cut, and you do get a residual check,
so go ahead and cash it. Then please send me
my ten percent. So I'm in the director's cut, So
I'm watching you. I put now it's now, don't watch
that two and a half three hour movie in the
director's cut again to look for two minutes of me.

(56:43):
But it was fun and and Fincher is just he
is the greatest. He was so much fun and so
just a terrific guy. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
So so what does what does he do? Bob? That
is that is different? That that sort of made him
Fincher if you know what I mean? Is it just
by directing act.

Speaker 4 (57:04):
I've told, I've told, I've told the story before on
another podcast, so I'm not going to tell the entire story.
He cast me and then brought me in as an extra,
not telling me he cast me because the character was nervous,
and and then sprung it on me the day of
the shoot.

Speaker 5 (57:26):
And then and then uh had me, had me look
at the script, and then once I felt halfway comfortable,
said okay, we're not using the script.

Speaker 4 (57:38):
We're going to do this all and we're going to
add lib everything. And then he said, oh, by the way,
the real guy who you're portraying was a chainsmoker. Do
you smoke? I said no? And he said you do now,
and it just went to really help my performance. He
was great. I mean, he was, he was, he was.

(58:01):
Couldn't have been, couldn't have been a better experience as
an actor, couldn't have been. It's it was one for
the books. It's it's you know, it's one of those
great memories that no one could ever take away from you.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
So jus a quick follow up, Bob. One last Fincher question,
how many takes did you do of the scenes? Because
I've heard stories about Fincher where he does a lot
of takes of the same thing. Did you have to
do a lot of Did you do a lot of
takes that day? I?

Speaker 4 (58:32):
Yes, many, multiple, multiple multiples. But the greatest story was
I play a cab driver and then one of the scenes,
I was actually driving the cab and Jake Jillenhall runs
across Mission Street to the Chronicle building and all he
does to run across and he hits my cab with
the palm of his hand as he's running because I'm

(58:53):
to get the stop as he's trying to run across
the streets, and I stopped and about take seventy four,
Jill and Hall walked up to the window of the
cab and looked at me and said, do you want
to do that again? And I said, hey, he goes,
I don't And he walked over to Fincher and said,
I'm done. I'm through with running across the street. And yeah,

(59:20):
seveny takes so about running across the street.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
So so I just want to just sort of reiterate
that because we kind of lost the connection there for
a second, so Jake, but Jake went back to Fincher
and just said I'm done.

Speaker 4 (59:35):
Yeah, I'm done with this.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Uh see, stories like that, Bob. That that that stories.
I like that. Why I like filmmaking. It's just stories
like that. And again, like you said, in an experience
you're going to take away for the rest of your life.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Oh yeah, we'll be right back after a word from
our sponsor. And now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
And uh, Bob, we had a few questions come in,
uh okay, and we've answered a lot of them as
just in the course of conversation, as it naturally happens.
But there is there is one question that I thought
I would ask, and I'm sorry I didn't. I don't
know who actually asked this. I will find out in
a second but uh, just about marketing yourself over the
years and promotion.

Speaker 6 (01:00:23):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
This came in through this screenwriters who can actually write
a Facebook for him. I wanted to ask about that.
What so, what are some of the things that you've
done and advice for for writers for marketing and promotion
over the years, for for for people who want to
promote their own work.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
Anything you can do that's not illegal or stupid. That's
that's my That's that's pretty much my whole you know,
my whole outlook on marketing yourself. I did it a
lot through networking because I was lucky enough to be
an actor and beyond sets and network with people and

(01:00:59):
get to know people first before I said, oh, by
the way, I'm writing something. I didn't walk up to
you know, people I met right away and say, oh,
you know, by the way, I'm I'm you know, I'm
a writer. Where you read my script and make me
you know, and buy it and make me a millionaire,
which I've seen people do. I again, I establish relationships

(01:01:20):
with people. Networking is incredibly important. It takes a long time,
but it's really the best way. Querying producers going on
IMDb pro you have to if you're going to be
in business for yourself. Like I said before, in your
marketing yourself, you have to invest in your business. You
can't be cheap about it. So you have to buy

(01:01:41):
things like IMDb pro and you've got to go on
there and you've got to look at the producers who
produce the kind of scripts that you're writing and querry them.
You know, in ninety nine percent of the time you're
going to get no answer or a pass. But the
thing about it is is that all it takes is

(01:02:02):
one person to believe in you and believe in what
you do, one person to begin with. That's all it
took for me, one person. And I think that that
the problem is is that people don't want to do
the hard work that it takes to find that one person.

(01:02:24):
So your query producers and you keep querying them, query managers. Agents.
Agents aren't going to want to talk to you. Don't
query agents. They don't want you, they don't need you there,
they've got what they want. If you're when you get established,
then they'll talk to you. But managers, managers will talk
to you. There's lists of managers on douneal pro. There's

(01:02:47):
lists of managers that you can find on the internet,
find the ones that are specializing in the kind of
things that you're writing, and query them and then you know,
do it again, and then do it again, not to
not too quickly, but you know, and and keep it
up and and keep I used to keep a big

(01:03:09):
chart of who I sent stuff to and when I
sent stuff to them and what the response was, so
so I was educated and knew, you know, who I'd
sent stuff to before, so I wasn't an idiot and
sent the same thing out to him again.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
So it's like they're like, man, this this guy sent
me the same thing again. I didn't like it the
first time.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
Yet, Yeah, you don't want to do that because actually,
surprisingly enough, some of these places do actually keep track
and and and you don't want to be one of
the people that they see something from and just delete.
So you want to be you have to be smart
and business like about it. It's uh and and and

(01:03:50):
corying and networking and and some of the contests are
good too. I've had a friend who I've got had
a couple of friends who did really well in the
nickel and they got managers out of it, and they
got some writing assignments out of it. So the Nickel's
a great contest to do well in. Austin is another
great contest to do well in and after that it

(01:04:11):
kind of falls off precipitously that you know that there
are so many screenwrine contests now that producers really don't
care if it's Austin or or the Nickel. They care
if it is anything else. There's not a whole lot
of interest. And then the Blacklist. Every once in a

(01:04:31):
while can do something on the Blacklist, not very often,
because it's like anything else. It's you have the same
chance as you do with a query or anything else.
If you do well, that doesn't mean that somebody's gonna
option your thing. And then you can do well and
sometimes somebody will option something, but then again a lot

(01:04:52):
of most options still can may So it's it's it's
a it's trial and error, it's being organized, and it's
u figuring out how to network. You can network on Twitter,
you can network on Facebook. I've met a lot of
really wonderful people on the Writing and the Writing group
on Facebook, and I've met some incredible people who are

(01:05:13):
going to be my lifelong friends on Twitter, who are
who are really some fine, fine writers that I really respect,
so you just never know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Yeah, that's very true, Bob. I mean, hey, look we're friends,
and you know, we were friends for a while and
you know, now we're being able to chat like.

Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
This, which is great. I like your Like I said before,
I really like your podcast. You ask good questions and
you listen and you ask good follow up questions, and
you have interesting people on. They can't ask for more
than that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
Well, thank you. Well, I really appreciate that. And it's
always good having you know, amazing guests like you on.
And no, I mean seriously, I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:06:03):
I met I. I had a young writer who wanted
to come and have and have a drink with me
last time I was in La and I it was
late at night, and I said, yes, I'd be happy
to And he comes in and he says, look, I'm
just so in awe and all this stuff, and I said,
stop stop, I don't. I don't handle that. Well, I don't.

(01:06:26):
That doesn't work for me. Let's just sit like a
couple of guys and talk about writing. And and that's
thank you for saying. I'm amazing. I just I just
I am, I am who I am. And it doesn't
change from you know, from person to person, and and
and I love what I do. And I had so

(01:06:49):
much incredible help when I was first getting started by
some phenomenally talded, wonderfully influential people that at the least
that I can do, as far as I'm concerned, is
to give some of it back.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
And we're all very appreciative of that, Bob, because you know,
I'm always fortunate again to find guests like that, who
who are very interested in sort of doing you know,
podcasts like like mine and and you know, trying to
give back and and sharing the knowledge and the wisdom
from from climbing those mountaintops, so to speak. And I've
been very fortunate. I've had a lot of great guests on. Yeah.

(01:07:30):
So it's it's it's been it's been a long journey.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
It's great. We'll keep it up. I will continue to
listen and and thanks for having me on. I really
I really appreciate it. It's it's uh, yeah, I enjoy
doing things like this. It's it's always fun, Bob.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Where can you aple find you? Right online?

Speaker 4 (01:07:49):
You can find me online at at b O B
s n Z at on Twitter. I have a blog
that I am not really good about keeping up with
all the time. But some some buddy that rates screenwriting
blog somewhere rated me in the top ten, which I
was amazed at. And uh it's called it's Bob Science

(01:08:15):
b O B S A E n z dot com
slash blog. And I'm on Facebook. But and uh at
Bob Science b O B S A E n Z.
And I'm not And I'm not the Bob Science. Whose
the insurance salesman at Texas.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
Oh that's what I thought I was talking to. Yeah, damn.
I I will link to all that in the show
notes everyone, by the way, so everyone who wants to
to talk to Bob, I'm gonna link to all that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:48):
Yeah, and and uh and and you can. Actually I
have a I have a business email which is which
is on my website. So it's not anything that is
isn't out there. It's Bob at Bob Signs dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
Again, Bob Signs. I want to say thank you so
much for coming on and this has been an absolute blast.

Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
My pleasure. Thank you for having me take care Bob.

Speaker 6 (01:09:17):
Thank you Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Indie film huscle
dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
Forward slash eight thirty four.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
And if you have it already, please head over to
filmmaking podcast dot com. Subscribe and leave a good review
for the show. It really helps us out a lot, guys.

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
Thank you again so much for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Guys, As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast at
Indie film Hustle dot com. That's I N D I
E F I L M h U S T l
E dot com.