IFH 839: The Rodriguez List: How to Make Movies with What You Already Have with Aaron Kaufman & Brian Levin

Aaron Kaufman and Brian Levin share an unfiltered look at how independent filmmakers can build real momentum by creating instead of waiting. Drawing from experiences ranging from YouTube comedy to studio features, they explain the power of the “Rodriguez List”—writing scripts based on the assets you already have. Their approach emphasizes volume, consistency, and learning through execution rather than chasing perfect conditions or external validation.

The episode also explores the realities of producing indie films in a crowded marketplace, from the challenges first-time directors face to the importance of protecting a story’s emotional core. Through lessons learned on Flock of Dudes and beyond, Aaron and Brian make it clear that modern filmmaking success comes from action, adaptability, and the courage to put work into the world—long before anyone gives you permission.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/indie-film-hustle-a-filmmaking-podcast--2664729/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
to thirty nine. Cinema should make You forget. You're sitting
in a theater, Roman Polanski.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we showed you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn
your independent film into a profitable business. It's harder today
than ever before for independent filmmakers to make money with
their films from predatory film distributors ripping them off to
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stacked against the indie filmmaker. The old distribution model of
making money with your film is broken, and there needs
to be a change the future of independent filmmaking is
the entrepreneurial filmmaker or the film entrepreneur. In Rise of
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(01:42):
to order it, just head over to www. Dot filmbizbook
dot com. That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode
with guest host Dave Bullis.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
On this episode, I have two producers who are absolute
rock stars at coming up with all this stuff, and
we're going to talk to them today. My first guest
is Aaron Kaufman, a producer, writer and director best known
for producing Machete Kills and Sin City two with Robert Rodriguez,
and he also wrote and directed the film Urge starring

(02:14):
Pierce Brosnan. And my other guest, Brian Levine is a
producer and writer best known for Playing with Guns and
Boys in Blue. They've just produced the new movie Flock
of Dudes, which is out with guests Aaron Kaufman and
Brian Levine.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
Hey Eron, Hey Brian.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Thanks off coming on the show.

Speaker 5 (02:32):
Hi, how you doing.

Speaker 6 (02:34):
Good?

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Thank you Brian, Aaron, Aaron, how are you, sir?

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Oh doing well, doing well? Thanks for having us.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Oh, well, you know, my my pleasure guys. So, you know, Brian,
I just wanted to you know, I guess I'll start
with you. I wanted to ask, and it's a question
I ask everybody, and that question is, you know, how
did you get started in the film industry?

Speaker 6 (02:57):
Started in the film industry? I started an online an
online show in the fall of two thousand and five
called The Post Show with two of the guys that
I made the movie with, Kester and Jason Zumwall.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
And yeah, we started just.

Speaker 6 (03:15):
By putting videos online twice a week and that kind
of got us into the industry.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
So basically, are we discovered by that method or did
you sort of just parlay that into something else, meaning
that you did you mean, what I'm am I asking is,
did were you discovered by somebody or did you self
fund your next project rather, was what I was trying
to ask.

Speaker 6 (03:38):
Yeah, we were through those videos. We were picked up
for a company called Super Deluxe, which was an online
network that was part of Adult Swim and so they
had like when they were starting off, they had talent
scouts kind of come in the net for people like us,

(03:58):
and that's how we were discovered.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
You know, very cool. You know, I was actually talking
to the co founder of The Onion, Scott Dickers, and
that's how he was actually discovered. They you know, they
were just doing The Onion as sort of like something
to do, and it's sort of you know, morphed into
something else and then you know, agents and managers were
calling him and saying, hey, you know, what else do
you have and basically saying, you know, because you guys
are actually out there doing stuff and it was a

(04:23):
great way to you know, to uh, to find out
who's doing stuff and you know, and if they're able
to get a network and able to get an audience,
imagine what they could do if they had a little
money behind them.

Speaker 6 (04:34):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
So you know, just to go to you, now, Aaron,
you know, how did you get started in the film industry.

Speaker 7 (04:42):
Well, I'm a little older, so there was no there
was no YouTube at the time. But my first job
in entertainment was working at working for Chris Blackwell, who
had started Island Records and Island Films, and I was
sort of transitioning out of the dot com world which
I worked in in my my early twenties, but always

(05:04):
had wanted to work in entertainment and got a chance
to work with him as he was starting Palm Pictures.
And it was kind of interesting time and an interesting
uh situation because he was such a great guy and
had this great experience having discovered Bob Marley and you
two and on the film side, you know, having put
out you know, films by Spike Lee and Petron mcdovar,

(05:26):
and he just was this you know Mandarin of of
all that was good as far as I was concerned.
And so I got I got a chance to really
get my feet wet and taught a lot of different
different parts of the business.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
And that's very cool, you know. You know, as we
talk about YouTube, and I just wanted to mention you
know that that's something that you know, I've had other
producers on the show, and we we've also talked about
that about you know, making your own YouTube show as
sort of like a launch pad for yourself, and you
know what I mean, And it's sort of about, you know,
the question that comes as a lot of people have
asked me three email and tweets and all that is basically,

(06:04):
well how do you get the money to start your
own YouTube show? So it's sort of like this cyclical
question that you know, it's always like you know, the
chicken or the egg, you know what I mean, It's
always your word.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
And there's not always a they're The part of it
is if.

Speaker 7 (06:17):
You want to become a doctor, that takes a lot
of work, but there's a path that you go through.
You know, you do this, you take that test, to
go to this school, you take these you know, there's
a path here that really is not And I think
that's what's really frustrating to a lot of people is you.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Can't just tell them, oh, this is this is how
this happened.

Speaker 7 (06:33):
I think if you asked Brian, you know, did he
expect to become a writer by you know, dressing up
his Bob Dylan and having a video go viral, he
probably would not have probably was not you know, part
of his plan. So so that's one thing is that
you have to understand it's really not about having a
solid plan, but it is about creating things, you know,

(06:53):
So if you have an opportunity to create, create.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
And that's that's the strongest thing.

Speaker 7 (06:58):
I mean, even as a producer, you know, as things
are pitched to you or things come over, it doesn't
have to be you know, I've seen, you know, really
rudimentary stuff that you can just tell there's talent behind,
and that's that's really enough. I remember before the first
Paranormal Activity came out, you know, there were agents showing

(07:18):
that movie around to show off the directors, and you know,
it was even more rudimentary than the version that came out,
but you could tell that there was that there was
significant talent there. And that's that's sort of how I
would I would say, I would worry a little less
about having money to polish everything off and worry more
about just making something that's in need.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, it's very good advice, Aaron. You know, just as
a quick side note, you know, forever for my listeners
who who've listened to some of the past episodes, I
actually shot my own TV pilot and I was going
to actually put it up on YouTube, and then I
was talked out of it by an agent and he said,
don't ever put it And he said, go don't put
it on YouTube. He goes, let's just you know, shot
this thing around. And I didn't sign with that agent,

(08:03):
by the way, but not that he really but you know,
he was giving me advice at the time, and we
ended up. I now, I'm still twyning with the idea
of putting it up on YouTube, just because you know,
I basically it cost me a hell of a lot
more money than I thought it would. But but you
could tell that there was a lot of time and
effort put into the production, the set design, everything, you know,

(08:24):
and I hate for it to just sit on a
hard drive, you know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (08:27):
Of course, I would say, I it's something you're proud of,
Definitely put it out. You know, there's there's something to
what he was saying as far as being selective.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
And once you put something out there, then it's out there.
So every time someone.

Speaker 7 (08:38):
Says, you know, hey, we should hire this guy, know
that that is going to get looked at.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
As long as you're fine with that, and you you
like it.

Speaker 7 (08:45):
Enough to be proud of it to put it up there,
to absolutely do that. But but do know that you
should be somewhat selective because whatever whatever's out there is
out there, you know, forever.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, very true, you know. And as we talked about creating,
I want to actually mention you know, Aaron, you have
a movie out Urge, Yes, and you know you you
actually you know, wrote and directed, and I think you
also produced Urged, and I wanted to ask, you know,
what was the impetus for you to start, you know,
start writing and directing your own script.

Speaker 7 (09:17):
Well, the Urge actually I wrote with Jason Zumwalt, who
also wrote on with with Brian's Sorry. I met Jason
with Brian on Flock of Dude. They were he was
part of the post show. And then I ended up
doing early early drafts with Jason, which really helped it
to come together. But then ultimately wrote the last thing
is two drafts with Jerry Stall who had written Permanent Midnight.

(09:41):
So there were I did a lot of collaborators on
the script, but I had always wanted to direct, and
one of my reasons for taking the job with Robert
Rodriguez in Austin. In the first place was to learn
production at that level. You know, I had been producing
for quite a while.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 7 (10:06):
But there was no comparison to the experience I got
working down a Troublemaker, where you know, we were making
a movie every nine months, you.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Know, and from the just in the time I.

Speaker 7 (10:17):
Was there, you know, we we had done two Machete films,
the sequels to Sin City, Spike It's For and the
UH and and Robert had produced the The Predators remake
with with Ed and Brode, so you know, it was
non stop production and that that helped me to really
build up those chops. But once we had finished Sin City,

(10:38):
which was a really large undertaking, it was really more
a matter of trying to figure out what I wanted
to to direct and and putting it together after that.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
So I wanted to ask you mentioned working with Robert Rodriguez, Aaron.
I wanted to ask, you know, what are some of
the things that you learned from him in terms of
either writing, production and directing. I mean, because I'm gonna admit,
I'm gonna I'm gonna geek out here, Aaron. He's a
huge idol of mine, and I mean, I I am
just you know, I would love the opportunity to talk
to him, and I'm always interested in everyone that could

(11:10):
that has worked with him. You know, I've had his
cousin on ALV Rodriguez Rochet and you know we were talking.
I mean, I could you know, we were just geeking
out about movies and everything else. But I want to
but you know that that's what was wanting to ask you, Aaron,
is you know, what are some of the things that
you learned from from working with Robert Riguez.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Well, that's a lot.

Speaker 7 (11:27):
I mean, it's probably its own, its own dedicated show,
because I think people don't.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
Realize he has ah.

Speaker 7 (11:34):
He has sort of a whole theory of production, which
is somewhat different than how everybody does things. So it's
like a you know, it's almost like a master's class
that you get from from him. But some of the
core tenants are the fact that you know, first and foremost,
if he likes to work, he likes to produce, and
he produces a lot, and that in itself creates a

(11:55):
different environment. And I would say that there's an analogue
to people that are looking to put stuff on YouTube,
is you know, the way that you get great is
by producing quite a lot. You know, you're shooting all
the time, You're getting acclimated to, you know, to what
you could do, what's possible, and that that really helped
the confidence you get from knowing looking at a problem

(12:16):
and knowing, oh, I know, out of handles.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
That's that's really important.

Speaker 7 (12:20):
And he he did that. I mean, he was making
shorts he you know, before he made Mariacci. He kind
of approached Mariacci in a pretty methodical way in the
sense of, you know, he was getting ready for it like.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
A marathon owner.

Speaker 7 (12:33):
So that's you know, just producing and producing a lot,
I think is one.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
Two.

Speaker 7 (12:39):
He also didn't really buy into the whole the mechanism
at all. You know, if if there were there was
a better idea, if there was a way to do
something more simply, he was all for that, you know.
And he also if you look at him and Robert,
Robert and Quentin, who are very good friends and came
up together, they both have this sort of method, you know,

(13:01):
it's sort of a thing that they live by, which
is you know, they really are focused on what's what's
going to be amazing, what's going to be memorable by
by an audience, and they really try to minimize everything
that isn't So, you know, anything that's that's not you know,
going to be memorable or going to be enjoyed by
by an audience, they really.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
Try to cut a lot of that stuff out of
their movies. And that's why they're pretty lean and mean usually.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, you know, I'm always fascinated about how quickly, you know,
Robert can get a movie together, and you know, because
I mean I know he you know, he wants to
make his you know, produce his own stuff. And you know,
there's something Robert once said about you have twenty bad
movies in you and basically get them out of you
as quickly as you can. And that's why he made
all those short films, you know, early on in his
in his life where it was just you know, he

(13:46):
casted his friends and family and you know, just made
videos like that and you know, just posted them. I think,
you know he I think me and a couple of
his DVDs, I think he posted a few of the
shorts on the DVD extras. But you know, I wanted
to ask you and when when when you were you know, uh,
you know, coming up, did you start you know, you know,
did you do things like that, you know me, either

(14:06):
in high school or in college, did you actually make
your own movies and and just sort of you know,
like make a ton of like really short movies or
and and just try to get you know, a ton
of mistakes out of the way.

Speaker 6 (14:18):
Yeah, I made I did some short films and wrote
some short films in uh, in high school, in college.
But I went to graduate school for a couple of years,
uh for screenwriting, and I think that's kind of where
I really just had like a high volume of output
and really learned the craft that way.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, And and just like Aaron said, I think the
best way to uh to actually learn is by doing.
And you know that that's you know what even other
filmmakers have had on this podcast. Have you even said, you
know that's what they did. They literally just went took
a camera out in their backyard, uh, you know, and
just started making stuff. And you know, one guy told
him so to edit by just taking a camera out
to his local park and basically just talk just you know, okay,

(15:06):
I'm gonna I'm gonna get some video, some footage of
the ship coming in. I'm gonna get some footage of
these birds. I'm gonna get footage of this. He wasn't
focused on telling a story as much as he was
just getting used to what's you know, operating a camera,
getting used to getting the right footage, you know what
I mean, like getting used to editing all that stuff.

Speaker 7 (15:23):
It's also I think writing is the is the writing
is from the biggest example of that, right, because it's
so terrifying to write, and the real antidote, you know,
to to writing or to be able to write, is
more writing, you know, So the the you have to
start getting comfortable with, you know, chopping the task down
into smaller bites and saying, Okay, you know what, I'm

(15:45):
gonna write this character, I'm gonna write this line. I'm
gonna write something that you can do and complete and
feel good about to move on because it is daunting.
But the truth is the only way you get better
is by by doing.

Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
True. And you know, I want to talk to you know,
so you know, Aaron, as you're actually making urge, you know,
what are some of the things that you took away.
I mean, you know, Urge looks amazing. It starts Pierce Brosnan.
You know, I I've you know, heard amazing things about
working with Pierce, and I wanted to ask, you know,
what are some of the things that you learned while
making Urge.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
I mean, tons, Pierce is great.

Speaker 7 (16:21):
I had worked with him once before on a movie
called The Greatest and had met him then and was
just very surprised with you know, he's double A seven,
so you have one expectation meeting him, but he actually
is just a super decent and really genuine guy. And
had that movie that I had produced, was there was

(16:41):
a first time director on that movie, and he was
very kind and and sort of very open to working
with her, which is not something that you know, every
actor feels comfortable with. You know, sometimes that's a little
scary for an actor to work with somebody who's who's
a first time filmmaker. I had produced, you know, films
for fifteen years, but still step behind the camera as

(17:02):
the director for the first time. You're still a first
time director, no matter, no matter what. So I think
the part of part of approaching appears in the first
first point was the fact that I knew what kind
of guy he was and that you know, he would
come and give give his all, not you know, undaunted by.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
The fact that this was my first as a as
a director. And then I.

Speaker 7 (17:21):
Learned with him that you know, basically, get someone as
good as peers to read your dialogue because it makes
you sound like a much better writer if you if
you do that, because he you know, it just comes
on stage and you're expecting one thing, and he just
did something so much better every single take. And so
that was that was great. But you have to really,

(17:41):
you know, learn to communicate. I think that's for directing.
That's that is the biggest and it may sound.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
Cliche, but it really is true.

Speaker 7 (17:47):
You know, what ends up happening in on a film
set is directors get so And I've seen this as
a producer with first time filmmakers, where filmmakers get so
overwhelmed because they're being asked million questions and a lot
of those questions they actually don't know the answers to,
and they feel like they should and that they start
to break down and they start to just get nervous.

(18:10):
And now a lot of times they'll close down and
instead of giving.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
More information, which is what they really need to do.
They give less.

Speaker 7 (18:16):
And that's the really the biggest and the most fundamental
lesson that I learned, And I would certainly talk with
other other filmmakers as I produce them to let them know,
you know, is that all these people want is to
do the best job they can do, So you have
to give them the tools to do it.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
So if they're asking you, you.

Speaker 7 (18:35):
Know, the scene calls for a gun, what kind of
gun do you want? And you actually don't know because
you haven't thought about it, that's okay. You can tell
them I don't know, let me think about it, and
that'll be better than, you know, trying to.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
Just freeze up or not communicate.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
You know, that's a very good point, Aaron. You know
one guy, you know, one guy I've always heard who
knows pretty much every answer that is asked to him
is Tarantino. Some people I know that have worked with
him have said that he already pretty much has anticipated
all these questions, or his vision is either so deep
that he already knows exactly what he wants, how it
needs to look, all that stuff, And I think that

(19:13):
really comes through in his movies.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
I known Quentin. I've never actually been on set with him,
but I know him.

Speaker 7 (19:19):
I would I would definitely believe that he knows everything,
just because he takes so much time and so much
care and he really almost writes his movies like novels
that by the time he gets on set, I would
imagine that he just really really knows. But even even then,
you know there and then when you and as you
do this more and more you realize as you're writing

(19:41):
that you're thinking about production in a way once you've directed,
the changes you're writing because now you're writing, you're thinking of, like,
on the day, Okay, you know I'm putting a gun
in this guy's hand, what kind of gun.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
Is it going to be?

Speaker 7 (19:53):
Because you know you're going to ask and asked that question.
You know, if it's if you're describing drapes, the idea
of what color are those or what extra or those
or those.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Things, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
And now back to the show.

Speaker 7 (20:12):
When you're first writing and you haven't directed before, a
lot of times it's just oh, there's drapes, or there's this,
or there's a gun, and you know you're you're moving
on to the next thing without forcing yourself to really
seek through. I think that whether it's Quentin or some
of the other you know, some other great directors that
really like Paul Thomas Anderson or anybody who create like
a whole world, I think it's because they've thought through

(20:33):
all that, all that detail, and they've they've made that
feel real, which which helps them moving.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
I've really felt that during Wes Anderson's Grand Budapest Hotel,
because I even went out afterwards and I bought the
book about the artwork of the film, and I mean
you could just tell the layer of planning and creativity
in that film. I mean, because every shot looks literally
looks like a painting.

Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yeah, No, everyone's composed.

Speaker 7 (20:56):
And I mean Wes is obviously known for for that
level of almost like fetishistic detail. He also works with
some of the best people in the world and and
he cares. What I like about West though, is that
there are people that can get as really overcome with
the detail and forget to tell a story, you know,
or forget to really build characters, and he seems to

(21:18):
be one of the few people that can kind of
do all of those things, you know, his films are
so well composed, well, so well designed, and yet they
always seem to have a heart to them that that's
a really hard balance to make, and I think he
does that very well.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
I completely concur And you know, you know, as we
talk about you know, making and you know, writing films,
and I wanted to you know, talk about, you know,
you're the film that both of you produced, Flock of Dudes. Now, Brian,
you also co wrote the movie, if if I'm correct,
and you both produced the film. So Brian, I wanted
to ask, you know, when when you know, what was

(21:52):
the impetus for writing you know, Flock of Dudes? Did
you know, was there any sort of a you know event,
did you always have this idea? Know I you know, so,
what was the you know impatuis of creating Flock of Dudes?

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (22:05):
That story just kind of came out organically from hanging
out in New York with Bob and Jason and we were,
I guess, you know, in our late twenties, mid late
midle late twenties, and everybody was hanging out and whenever
we would go out, all the other kind of friends
of ours would join us, and eventually there would be

(22:27):
a dozen, you know, guys going from bar to bar
in New York, and we started joking around that we
have to just break up with all these guys. We
can get rid of them so we're not traveling around
in a flock of dudes. And that kind of that
joke kind of became the movie.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
So when you actually sat down, Brian, to write the
film was there. You know, do do you subscribe to
sort of any method to writing, meaning do you subscribe
to Save the Cat? Do you sort of or are
you more of like a you know, a mini movie
method guy, or do you just you know, sort of
just right.

Speaker 6 (23:04):
Well, to be honest, it depends on what kind of
movie I'm writing. So you know, some things are more
structured in a conventional react way and some of them
are more kind of a.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
Looser, less structured.

Speaker 6 (23:20):
For me, it just depends on the movie.

Speaker 8 (23:22):
Really.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
So with Flock of Dudes, when you when you sat
down to write, you know, since it was based you know,
pretty much on your own experiences, you know, did you
did it sort of just flow out of you? Did
you already know like, hey, look, I know I want
this to happen. I know by the end of the
movie I want this to happen?

Speaker 4 (23:38):
Was it?

Speaker 3 (23:38):
Was it something like that?

Speaker 6 (23:40):
I think we had a couple kind of big kind
of plot points, like the guys breaking up with each
other and things of that nature. Oh really, I mean,
I think at least with the group of people writing together,
with three of us writing, it was just about sitting
sitting down and figuring out, hey, you know, what are
some interesting and funny things and characters, and then ultimately

(24:03):
how can we kind of string us together into into
a story that makes sense and has h you know,
a solid enough structure that it kind of fits into
the realm of a commercial movie.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Right, you know, because I've had the writers of Broken
Lizard on and that's something they were talking about as well,
was that, you know, they would get together, you know,
brainstorm an idea, and they wanted to make sure that
it was there was actually a story there, you know
what I mean, And they wanted to make sure that,
you know, they would put that that the story and
the structure would be like the bones and then like
all the jokes and everything would sort of be like

(24:40):
the muscle and the skin, so to speak. Yeah, m hm,
So so your Brian, I wanted to ask, you know,
how many drafts did you go through Flock of Dudes
before you finally said, you know what this is? This
is the draft is ready to shoot.

Speaker 9 (24:55):
Between the very beginning, Well, Block of Dudes is a
long process. It had been optioned by a studio and
came back to us, and we had multiple drafts at
every step of the way.

Speaker 5 (25:07):
But I would say probably overall we probably did thirty
drafts and.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
Then wow, thirty choice mines.

Speaker 7 (25:14):
Actually it's actually funny because they had been through sort
of a studio development process, and so I came along
after that, and I remember sitting with them working on
the script, and no matter what you mentioned, they would say, oh, yeah,
the like this producer had suggested that before, or the
studio wanted to before to the extent where you're like,

(25:36):
what if all these you know, characters were chickens instead
of people? They would be like, well, actually, you know,
the studio had the studio had mentioned that that might
be an idea, and so there was no way how
many permutations.

Speaker 4 (25:48):
Had been thrown at them.

Speaker 7 (25:48):
But I think it kept coming back to the original story,
which was this, you know, real relationship between these guys
and what I always liked about it was that it
was a fun comedy with lots of big laughs in it,
but at the core it still felt real and it
still felt like it was rooted in, you know, these
real relationships, and I think that made it a lot

(26:11):
a lot more interesting for me.

Speaker 5 (26:14):
And that's one thing that I think Aaron did very well,
which we have encountered from time to time, but it's
not all that common, which is she really recognized the
core of the story, which is kind of essentially kind
of the emotional journey of the.

Speaker 10 (26:31):
Lead character, and he helped us really kind of protect
that and make sure any you know, encourage us to
deliver on that. You know, stories are so in the end,
the story is so really fragile that there are a
lot of ways that it can go sideways if you're
not kind of protecting what's important about it.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Yeah, you know, that's very true. And you know, this
is something I've learned too now from my own experience
but also from doing this podcast, is whenever a writer
director gets a producer a piece, the singular sort of
bonding elements to all good relationships has always been that
the producer sees that that that core of that script

(27:16):
and he and and he or she actually really really
digs that idea, you know what I mean, they really
understand one another and that and that's so when the
producer goes out and is talking to you know, investors
or going to distribute distributors, that they can you know,
use that in the pitch and use that as the
selling point. But also, you know what I mean, like
so that way there, it's not that sort of what

(27:37):
we were talking about four before with all the different
permeations where it's like, well, what if they were chickens,
what if they were that? You know what I mean? Yeah,
mm hmm. So, uh, you know, I wanted to talk
about you know, so we're talking about producing. I wanted
to ask you guys, you know, you know producing uh,
you know Flock of Dudes. You know, both of you
produced this, and I wanted to ask, you know, what
were some of the biggest challenges in in producing something

(28:00):
like this?

Speaker 4 (28:01):
I'm sorry I missed the less the question.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
What was some of the biggest challenges in producing Flock
of Dudes?

Speaker 7 (28:07):
I mean, I think the flock of dudes you're you're
trying there's a couple of things. One you're trying to
make a comedy in the independent space, which you know,
the independent space is not necessarily that welcoming of this
kind of film. You know, if you look at what
really gets made in the indie space, it's it's dedicated
toward you know, what we'll show at Sundance, what will

(28:27):
show at Toronto. You don't really see sort of ribald
comedies at those at those festivals. And we were really,
at the end of the day, trying to make a
commercial comedy that would re enjoyed, you know, sort of
outside of.

Speaker 4 (28:42):
The the indie space.

Speaker 7 (28:43):
That was sort of one challenge because you're the people
that are there, the systems that's there to help you
and assist you through the process, there doesn't really exist.
You know, this is the kind of movie that would
get made by a new line, and we were trying
to make it look and feel and and and act
like one of those movies, which is great, except that
you're really on your own because you're there's just not

(29:05):
the sort of in the in sport in the indie
world for that, uh, you know, you don't have big
festivals that want those kind of comedies.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
So that's one.

Speaker 6 (29:15):
Two.

Speaker 7 (29:15):
You know, we're we're trying to make something that looks
like a bigger budget movie on on less uh less
less of a budget on a smaller budget. One of
the things that we had looked out on is the
post show guys had some great relationships in the comedy world,
and we were able to populate the film with with
with guys that we people really liked. And then once

(29:37):
that started to move, then other people started to come
on board. You know, it's for like Hillary Duff and
Jamie Chung and and uh, you know, even real Leona
we're joining at that point because we had Crystalia and
Brick Gellman and Kamala and Johnny and all these other
people that were really coming up. And this movie has
been we made it a little while ago.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
We'll be right back after a word from our spon, sir,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 7 (30:06):
So I would I would say casting wise, we look
like geniuses because now everybody who's in the film has
kind of blown up and become huge. But that was
the those are the kind of one two uh issues.
And then you know you're dealing with the Bob Castron
who directed it, who was the first time as a
as a director.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
So you're you're dealing with.

Speaker 7 (30:27):
Those are not specific to Bob but specific to anyone
who's who's making their their first film.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
So you know, that's actually another producing question I had was,
you know, with a cast like that, you know how
you know, because they're all doing so many things. Jo
Hanna Simone, she's on New Girl. Uh, you know, you
have Eric Andre, you have Hilary Duff. You know what
was what was some of the biggest logistic issues, you know,
just getting all the all these actors together. Was there
any logistic issues?

Speaker 4 (30:55):
There was? I mean there was a lot of just
the casting of it.

Speaker 7 (30:58):
You know, we we ended up normally in a film
as a producer, I'm casting directly three or four roles
you know that are your sort of bigger roles, and
then working with the casting director to to come up
with ideas for everybody else. Here we really kind of
cast down almost the entire the entire movie. So other
than background, there are no like day players on the movie.

(31:19):
Everybody are you know, everybody in the in the film
is is somebody great?

Speaker 10 (31:23):
Uh?

Speaker 7 (31:23):
Not that not that day players can't be great, but
you know these are every every single role is is
populated by by somebody who we loved and was really great.
So you have you know, Jeff Ross in a in
a scene, you have Kellen Coleman, you have Timothy Simon's
from Veep in a in a really funny scene.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
So there's the movie kind of just keeps going and going.

Speaker 7 (31:44):
And for producing wise, we were really excited every day
almost because it was like every day we got to
work with somebody new and that we admired, Hannibal Baris
and you know, just it just went on and on.
So it was that that made it pretty pretty fun.
But getting you know, doing that was was done as
a concerted effort because it was a matter of how

(32:05):
do we make this movie stand out? How do we
make this movie look special? And and that was on
was one of our big ways.

Speaker 4 (32:11):
Of doing it.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
You know, Aaron, you mentioned that this was Bob Kastron's
you know, directorial debut. You know, when when investors were
looking at the movie, did they ever you know maybe question,
you know, should we you know, is Bob gonna be
able to handle this? I don't mean it the way
it sounds, by the way. I just mean that, you know,
is there ever a you know, a sort of an
issue that someone would raise. We're saying like, well, hey,

(32:35):
you know, you know, is there any is there anybody else?

Speaker 4 (32:39):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
I don't mean that the way it sounds, not.

Speaker 7 (32:43):
At all, you know, And in fact, it's exactly what happens,
I having nothing to do with Bob specifically, just the
moment you say first time filmmaker to an investor, it's
you know that it's not what you want to hear.
No one, no one ever grabs you and says, oh great,
that's exactly what I wanted first time director to to
lavish my my money off. And the same thing went
for me because after flogging Dudes, I directed Urge and

(33:07):
I thought, you know, having been in film for so
long and having worked on you know, big movies like
Lake Sin City, that you know, being a first time
director would.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
Not be as much of a hindrance. But it still is,
you know.

Speaker 7 (33:17):
And really what it comes down to, and I understand
it a little bit better now, is that before you direct,
you really have no idea what kind of director you're
going to be. You can hope, you can think, you
can prepare, you can learn, you can watch movies, you
can take classes, you can learn theory. All of these
things are which you should do, which is great, but
none of them really prepare you for what it's actually like.

(33:40):
And I've seen it. I've seen people that get behind
the camera and they just freeze and it's not for them.
And I've seen people get behind it who you weren't
necessarily think you were going to be great and they thrive.
So that because that's a random That's why I think
people get really nervous about it is because they just
there's nothing. There's nothing to prepare Europe essentially trusting a
producer who says, yes, this person can do this this job,

(34:03):
so you have to overcome that, and a lot of
ways we overcame. That was the you know who we
had on to produce a movie, who we brought on
cast wise to to really offset the serious.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yeah you know, and uh, I'm glad that you you
you uh, because that's what I'm trying to say, Aaron,
was that basically, you know, even when you know, in
my own experience, when you know, you put something together
like a pitch packet and you you know, you go
to investors, you know, that's not something they want to
hear first time director. You know, what I mean, because
you know, you know, they they sort of they want
to know who and I forget who I was saying

(34:39):
this to. But that's sort of what the new thing
is where it's like even for you know, for any
independent film now it's like we want a name director,
a named producer, a named writer even you know, and
and the cast all has to be sellable so you know,
get us people, you know what I mean. And it's
sort of putting this whole package deal together where every
so it's sort of like you're stacking the deck. So
when you go to producers or I'm sorry, when you
go to investors, that you can say, well, you know,

(35:00):
we're pretty much stacking the deck in your favor because
everyone here is willing to work for a little less
maybe or you know, is willing to work on this,
on this passion project.

Speaker 7 (35:09):
You're one hundredson right, And I for me, it makes
it a lot less fun than it used to be.
I mean, you always have to put a package together,
but now in order to get something off the ground,
you have to you know, it used to be out. Okay,
we have one major star who wants to make this movie,
and it's a smaller movie.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
Let's go.

Speaker 7 (35:25):
Now it's like, okay, well the first and second lead
and third and maybe fourth, and we need a name director.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
And then all of.

Speaker 7 (35:32):
A sudden, in my mind, you're taking a lot of
what's special about indie film in the first place. You know,
I grew up in the nineties, and you know, that's
when I think New York indie film was really kind
of at its height, and you had great you know,
you had you know, kids, and you had you know,
all these great you know, simple Men and all these
other great, great movies that were coming out. And you know,

(35:53):
Jim Jarmish and those guys were not making those movies
thinking that they needed five main stars to make those movies.
And I don't know that their films would have been
as special if if they did.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
So.

Speaker 7 (36:05):
I do think I understand it because I understand the
financing side of things, and I understand why they're they're
looking for that. But I would venture to say that
the most successful independent films are the ones that where
you know, artistree is really at the at the forefront.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
You know, I had on Chris Jay who from Army
of Freshman and he actually made a movie called The
Bet and what they did, was they actually crowdfunded a
little bit of money, uh and actually took that money
and sort of as like a seed investment, and they
actually went out to find you know, more money through
actual investors. And because that's that they actually had to
you know, basically that's sort of like the new model,

(36:43):
as he was saying, you know mean, because that's that
way he could you know, use that to go out
and fly to meet these people or or what you
have these meetings or you know, and and you know
that they finally got the money and then they you know,
if you watch the Bet, you know has like Jake
the Snake, Roberts has Rady Ardi Piper in it, you
know what I mean, Like those like we were just saying,
they're sprinkled throughout.

Speaker 4 (37:03):
The whole movie.

Speaker 7 (37:05):
Yeah, I mean, I personally don't really know how the
crowd for sourcing stuff works. I'm interested in it, you know,
I've seen some good stuff happen from it. But yeah,
I mean a lot of filmmaking is about momentum and
so anything that you can use to get momentum going.
So if you know, a lot of times we would
i would raise you know, seed money or we'd raise
development money for a film. If you could do that

(37:27):
through crowdsourcing to give that would give you the momentum
that you need. And once you have a momentum, then
people start to pay attention. You know, if you say, look,
we're gonna make this movie maybe, or we're gonna make
this movie in October, it's very different. It's very different
for agents, and it's very different forecast to wrap their
head around trying to come on board.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
You know, Aaron, if you ever have any questions about crowdfunding,
I will be more than happy to answer any questions
you may have because I have done I've done it
a number of times. I've helped other filmmakers raise budgets,
all that good stuff. So even a couple of ourticles
about it, which was actually one of them was on
Any Film Hustle with Alex Ferrari, who you with, whom
you were on the podcast, did yeah so uh so

(38:08):
it was on his side, So it's you know, it's
it's uh yeah. So if you ever any questions, please
let me know.

Speaker 4 (38:12):
Great.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
So, you know, guys, I had some fan questions come in.
Would you mind answering a few?

Speaker 4 (38:18):
No, sounds great.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
My first question you said. My first question comes in
from the Good People podcast reviews, which is at the
Hippo critics. As the film was mentioned on WTF podcast
with Mark Maron as being delayed. What issues did you encounter?

Speaker 4 (38:37):
Oh? Well, what was can you read the question? I'm
sorry that sure, no problem.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
As the film was mentioned on WTF pod podcast with
Mark Maron as being delayed. What issues did you encounter? Yeah?

Speaker 7 (38:49):
We uh, I think it was he was talking to
Eric Andre the the film itself, you know, we we
put together and it was put together for really small,
small budget, and then we were we cut the film.
I was, like I said, I was directing Urge and
was able to tick then kind of right before that,

(39:09):
come back and work with Bob on another cut, and
then really it was just the the vagaries of the
current indie space. You know, we were looking for We
weren't looking to go you know, we were very proud
of the film and we were looking for the right
partner for it, and so we had been approached by
by a bunch, but their ideas for bringing it out
just were not aggressive enough. And then we were lucky

(39:32):
enough to connect with stars who have been great to us,
and uh, and have have a really great idea for
bringing the movie out and doing it theatrically as well
as as as V O D.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
And then and then I.

Speaker 7 (39:44):
Partnered with Hulu, so the movie will get a much
broader uh in premature than than it would have and
I think holding out for the right situation was was
the best idea. Then after that they had a schedule
of when you know what, when the movie would fit
in the queue.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Which took some time as well.

Speaker 7 (40:12):
But yeah, I think it's it's it's been something because
I think a lot of the cast and myself included,
we're really happy and proud of the film and really
liked it, wanted to see it come out, and the
waiting has been a little bit of a of a bomber.
But we've reached out now to cast and they're all
coming back on board to uh to to help promote
it now, which has been great.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah, and that that There's another question that came in
which actually ties in to what we're just talking about,
is you know, do you find it harder to release
a film now because the marketplace has gotten a little
bit more crowded.

Speaker 7 (40:49):
Aaron, Yeah, I think I think so, but I don't.
I don't know that it's as crowded as it is.
There are other options, you know. I think it's it's
you saw a glut in the independent film world a
few times, right. I think two thousand and six seven
was probably one that I can remember specifically because it
was like a lot. There were a lot of good
movies that came out, and it was we were dealing

(41:11):
with a flush of money that hit the independent market,
mostly from hedge funds, and it was just creating too
much product that couldn't be absorbed.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
Now, I don't know if it's that. I don't know
if that's the issue.

Speaker 7 (41:23):
I think the issue is just what are our behaviors.
I think our behaviors have changed, which is in some
ways scarier because I think our behaviors used to be,
you know, great, it's Friday night, I'm going to go
on a date, let's go to let's go watch a movie.
Now you literally have, like, you know, people say things
like let's Netflix and chill right, which is a completely

(41:44):
different sort of mindset, And I think that's pervasive. So
I think people now looking for more stuff that they
can binge watch, more stuff that they can see. I
think people are enjoying watching, you know, something that's more
in depth, like ten episodes of Narcos, and so I
think that the amount of time people want to spend

(42:04):
in the theater is less, and so therefore it's got
to be more special. The corollary is that you have
the studios and that are putting movies out there that
know that the only way to really get people's attention
is to spend quite a lot of money, and so
the amount of films that they're willing to make that

(42:24):
kind of risk on is really gone, you know. So
what you're seeing less and less of are what I
kind of grew up understanding, which was like that platform
release where you're putting it on five screens is doing well.
You're putting it on to ten, you're putting it on fifty,
you're putting it on one hundred. You know, you're making
a way to one thousand. You're seeing that happen less
and less. So you either have big movies like you know,

(42:47):
Marvel films that come out in four thousand screens, or
you're seeing, you know, somebody come out on two screens
and then go to the od. The world has has changed,
and that's made it more and more difficult for producers.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, and that's something I've noticed as well, is that
you know, it is really you know, you sort of
have to make those those those projections, right you sort
of that's why we know, we were talking about sort
of stacking the deck in our favor, and you have
to make those projections that you know, this is how
you know, if we could sell it on vod, if
we can sell it through our website, if we can
get on iTunes, get an aggregator, all that stuff.

Speaker 7 (43:19):
Well, yeah, but the one thing I would I would say,
and I would reinforce is one of you know, indie
film in some ways hurt itself. Going back to that
time two thousand and six seventy eight, there were a
lot of there was a lot of money. There was
flush and instead of producers saying, okay, let's find the
right movies, people were grabbing projects that had been on
on shelves for years and saying, well, let's make this.

(43:40):
And so there was great stuff that came out at
that time, but there was also a ton of stuff
that was either not good or just wasn't yet ready
to be put out there. So that's the other thing
is for now you have multiple ways of getting to people,
and even you know, having someone see a movie on
Netflix is not the worst thing in the world. But
what are you doing what when they do find you,

(44:03):
are you doing anything new and interesting? Because that's what
I think people will gravitate towards. You know, if it's
a French you know, mini series, but if it's amazing
people are finding it on Netflix.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
I think that's a good thing.

Speaker 7 (44:15):
But I think that puts the onus on the filmmaker
to not just make a movie, but to make something
that's that's as a reason for being today.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
Yeah, that's a good point, Aaron.

Speaker 9 (44:26):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
You know, and actually I have one final question that
came in and basically it is, you know, what would
you recommend for a first time producer making a film.

Speaker 4 (44:35):
Run run Away?

Speaker 7 (44:39):
You know, looks the more that you know, the more
you have one thing, you have to work harder than
anybody else and you have to get that out there.
People need to see that you're willing to be you know,
as aggressive, more aggressive than anybody else, because momentum is
really what makes a movie. People look at you when
you have scripts and you're trying to peddle a script

(44:59):
around town. You have a script and that it may
be great, it may not be, but that's why they
view you. If you have a movie, meaning you have
this thing up and running, you guys are going to
go on October twelfth, that changes things, that's complete, completely,
creates a new dynamic. And so the point at which
as a producer your goal is not to get a
script funded by somebody, because that happens so infrequently. What

(45:24):
you have to do is start adding the elements, right,
So you have to look at who do I know?
Who can I get to, who can help me? And
you have to not be afraid to go and try
to bring those people on board. And so you have
to think of it almost like you're keeping plates in
the air, you know, spinning at all times. You're running
to you know, if you're gonna not direct it, you
got to find the director for it. If you don't

(45:45):
know a name director, you don't have somebody who you
can bring on who adds value per se, find the
most talented person you can find. Then you can get behind.
You can show look, this movie is not just a
great movie, but I'm going to bring this incredible piece
of talent to the world. And then as you're starting
to talk to talent, you're now you have a great
script with a really impressive filmmaker, and don't you want

(46:07):
to be a part of this? And so you're always
running the table and you kind of always have to
do these things simultaneously. It's a lot of work, and
I think people that have an impulse to make a
film sometimes don't always understand that the amount of work
and sort of how grueling it can be. You can't
just approach it sequentially where I'm going to bring the
script to somebody, He's going to give me a bag

(46:28):
of money. I'm then going to go spend that money
on great talent, and then we're going to make a
genie this movie and then go collect you know, Academy Awards.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
It just doesn't really work that way. It really is
a game.

Speaker 7 (46:39):
Of trying to build momentum, and the more you build,
the better your movie can attract talent, and hopefully the
better better movie you'll be able to make.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
You know, there's a piece of producing advice that someone
once gave me, and basically, all the resources come down
to time and money. Either you need more time or
you need more money. But they so you can spend
You could spend time to get more money, but you
can't spend money to get more time sort of right.

Speaker 4 (47:06):
So I mean it's true.

Speaker 7 (47:07):
I mean I've I've been on you know, I've I've
seen that before, where you know, you think you have
all the money in the world and so therefore that
should be equal better movie and it doesn't always, you know,
so I think that no matter where you are. And
that was a lesson I learned working with Arbert Rodriguez
was he wasn't always looking at like, how much money
could I possibly get to make this movie? Quite the contrary,

(47:28):
he would if he can get forty million dollars to
make a Spikes the movie, he'd make that movie for
fair because he was always trying to, you know, out
smart the production, try to you know, deal with less.
And also in that scenario he would always have a
little bit more autonomy because the the onus was was
far less than if he had made it for you know,

(47:48):
fifty million dollars. So money doesn't always buy quality. If
it did, then you know, every you know, every big
warner Brothers and Fox movie would be amazing, but it's
it's not that said on the indie front. You know,
I think that you're you're still competing in a way
with those larger movies, and so you have to invest

(48:09):
in something else. You don't have CG. You don't have
you know, the these huge implementations. But what you do
can have is style, and what you can have is
story and great character and something that's going to to
to pop. And so you could put a movie like
Black Swan into the same mix as you know, The

(48:30):
Avengers and it will do well because it's different enough
and it's it's engaging enough.

Speaker 4 (48:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Yeah, And and that's a really good point. And you know, Aaron,
just to sort of, you know, at one final thought
to that, you know, as we talk about you know,
making you know films and producing our first films. One
popular method, you know, I've heard from a lot of
of guests that I've on this podcast and even from
reading books, particularly Stu Makowitz's.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
Book.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Uh, basically it's creating that Rigae's list, you know, and
it's basically you know, creating that you know, find out
what you have access to, and then you build a
script around that. So if you you know what I mean,
if you have Grandma's house and you can use the basement,
shoot something in that basement. If you have an old
student baker that's sitting somewhere, try to find a way
to put down the script as well.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
For sure.

Speaker 7 (49:16):
Yeah, and I think I would extend that to include
relationships as well.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
You know, who do you know?

Speaker 7 (49:22):
Who do who you have access to, who can help you,
who can introduce you to this person or that person?

Speaker 4 (49:28):
You know? And uh, and do that.

Speaker 7 (49:29):
But but more importantly, you know at the end of
the day, piece that people forget sometimes is are you
do you have something you're passionate about? You have a
movie that you really want to tell you know that
you you know because a lot of this stuff is details.
A lot of this stuff is you know the how,
And I think you've got to figure out why. And
that's what hurts a lot of movies, is you have

(49:51):
the how, Like, oh, I wanted to make a movie
and I figured out how to do it. That's great,
and I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
We'll be right back after a word from our answer
and now back to the show.

Speaker 7 (50:07):
But at the same time, you really need to start
from the why, which is I have this piece of
material that is going to be so funny or it's
so interested, we're so engaging that you know, I have
to get it out there, and that that's generally a
better place to start.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Yeah, and you know, and that's a great point, Aaron.
And it is about who you know, right, This whole
this whole industry is about relationships, and it is always
about you know who you know?

Speaker 5 (50:32):
Right.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
You know, guys, we've been talking for about, you know,
forty nine minutes now, you know. So in closing, is
there anything that we didn't talk about that you may
wanted to discuss, or sort of any sort of final
thoughts that you'd like to add to this conversation. Just
sort of put a period at the end of this
whole thing.

Speaker 4 (50:48):
I know, Brian waiting on the election right print.

Speaker 11 (50:52):
No, for sure, I've been you know, studying up and
I think I've I've got it all figured out.

Speaker 4 (50:57):
Who's gonna wait in everything?

Speaker 11 (50:58):
So now I would say kind of big picture is
a little bit what you what we've all been circling around,
which is, there is the.

Speaker 8 (51:12):
Movie you have in your mind, which is in your imagination,
There is the reality of life.

Speaker 6 (51:19):
You have to.

Speaker 8 (51:20):
Deal with the reality while I'm trying to execute this vision.
So that's across the board, whether you're dealing with resources, money, actors, locations, anything.
You know, don't be an artist who has an aversion
to reality. This is not going to help you make
a movie. You'll you'll do what you do, but you're

(51:42):
not gonna make a movie. So, you know, even though
it's an unpleasant reality, often better that than not. That's
kind of my That's what I've kind of learned essentially.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Yeah, and You're you're right, Brian, you know that that
is something you know, uh, you know, I yeah, you know,
I sometimes think, you know, you sort of you have
to pick and choose battles, right, you know what I mean?
You can pick and choose battles as long as you
win the war type of you know, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 8 (52:11):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
So, so, Aaron, is there any sort of final thoughts
that you have to sort of period asshole.

Speaker 7 (52:18):
Conversations that Flock of Dudes comes out on September thirtieth
and comes out in theaters and on on iTunes. We're
really we're really happy with the movie, and I hope
everybody enjoys it.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
And everyone. I will link to Flock of Dudes in
the show notes. I will link to all the good
stuff about the movie. I will link to everything we
talked about. Brian. Where we will find you out online.

Speaker 6 (52:47):
The website from me and the guys is the poachshow
dot com, and you can find some sketches that we
had done kind of leading up to Flock of Dudes,
and also get some other information about us.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
Cool you're on Twitter or Facebook or anything.

Speaker 6 (53:03):
I'm on Facebook.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
I'm not on Twitter, so okay, cool and Aaron, we'll
find you at all.

Speaker 7 (53:09):
I'm on Twitter at at an a underscore Kaufman k
a U F M A N on Twitter, and I
think I'm Aaron K.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
Kaufman on Instagram.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Cool, and I will link to that in the show
notes as well. Aaron, Brian, I want to say thank
you very much for coming on. I wish you the
best with Flock of Dudes, guys. I look forward to
seeing Flock of Dudes or whatever he cans forts. Oh
my pleasure, guys.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
I wish you the best. All right, thanks my pleasure.
By take care guys.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at any film uncle
dot com Forward slash eight thirty nine. If you have
it already, please head over to filmmaking podcast dot com.
Subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It
really helps us out a lot.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Thank you again so much for listening to guys. As always,
keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive, Stay safe
out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
F I L M h U S T l E
dot com.