IFH 863: How One Tweet Can Change Your Screenwriting Career with Jeanne Veillette Bowerman

Breaking into Hollywood has never followed a single formula, and Jeanne Veillette Bowerman proves that some of the most successful careers begin far outside Los Angeles. After owning a motel and restaurant for fifteen years, Jeanne reinvented herself as a screenwriter, eventually becoming the editor of Script Magazine, co-founder of the influential #ScriptChat community, and a respected voice in the screenwriting world. She shares how social media transformed her career, why networking online opened doors traditional methods never could, and how writers today can build meaningful relationships that lead to real opportunities instead of simply chasing representation.

The conversation dives deep into practical screenwriting advice, including outlining versus discovery writing, choosing marketable concepts, rewriting, screenplay contests, pitching, script coverage, building an online presence, and the mindset required to survive the entertainment industry. Jeanne also offers candid insights into balancing a full-time career with writing, why every screenwriter should have a website, how to use social media professionally, and why generosity often becomes the greatest networking strategy a filmmaker can develop.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/indie-film-hustle-a-filmmaking-podcast--2664729/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
sixty three. You try to do it, and you do
it honestly, you can't control people's responses.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Really, Edgar Wright.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Broadcasting from the back Alley and Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
I am your humble.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
Host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of
the Film Entrepreneur. How to turn your independent film into
a profitable business. It's harder today than ever before for
independent filmmakers to make money with their films, from predatory
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(01:03):
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(01:23):
and failures. This book shows you the step by step
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up for success. The book is available in paperback, ebook,
and of course audiobook. If you want to order it,

(01:43):
just head over to www dot filmbiz book dot com.
That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest
host Dave Bullis.

Speaker 5 (01:55):
All, everyone, thanks again for joining me. Joining me today
is Genie Volettbauer. Genie is the editor and online community
manager of scriptmag dot com and she's also the co
founder and moderator of the weekly Twitter's Screenwriter Chat, which
is hashtag script chat. And she's also wrote the narrative
adaptation of the Pulzer Prize winning novel Slivery by Another

(02:16):
Name and Furthermore, Genie has a script in the top
twenty five of the Tracking Board and was named one
of the top ten most influential screenwunning blogs by Stephanie Palmer.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Well, Genie, how are you good?

Speaker 6 (02:28):
How are you?

Speaker 5 (02:29):
I'm doing pretty good. It's, you know, just another mild
day here in Philadelphia. How's everything in New York?

Speaker 6 (02:35):
It's Ashley Miles. It's a little, you know, compared to
the storms we've had lately, it's nice.

Speaker 5 (02:43):
So, Gene, just to get started, could you give us
all a little bit about your background and you know
how you got started.

Speaker 6 (02:50):
Well, I actually went to the hotel school at Cornell
and I owned a motel at restaurant for fifteen years.
And then I turned forty. I kind of was like, Okay,
I'm a stay at home mom with no kids at home,
and I had closed the business, and I always want
I had always wanted to write, and so I started

(03:13):
writing a novel and I had no idea what the
hell I was doing. And one of my friends from
college said that once she had a screenplay, they're you know,
they're easier and well. And at the time I could
see why someone would think of that, because it's only
like one hundred and ten pages, you know, compared to
hundreds of pages for novel. But obviously, as you know,

(03:36):
as the years progressed and I kept writing more and more,
I realized that the unbelievable art and to writing a script,
it's so different than writing novels, which I'm also I'm
also writing some novels too now, but it uh so,
I kind of just got started that way, just kind
of went into it without knowing what the hell I

(03:57):
was doing, which is probably in some respects looking back
on it, the best way to do it, because I
think if I had known how difficult it was to
break into this industry, how hard it was to write
a screenplay effectively and well, that might have intimidated me.
And so I think for me, definitely ignorance with bliz

(04:17):
for sure. And then I started well writing Slavery by
not a Name. I started getting on I got on
Twitter so that I could kind of meet other screenwaters
and get a buzz going to the project. But I
didn't realize at all the power of Twitter and the
incredible network you could develop there. And because of the

(04:39):
network from Twitter, it's really how I got a script.
Magazine found me and I was first a columnst there
and then now the editor. It's how I've met so
many people, my current writing partner who's on Twitter known
as unknown Screenwriter, I've made so many incredible connections. And
also how script chat was form. So really social media

(04:59):
is a incredible way for somebody who lived output of
la to make some groundwork.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
And that's how we met too.

Speaker 5 (05:07):
Yeah, absolutely, so you know what exactly were you tweeting
so that Script Magazine was able to find you.

Speaker 6 (05:16):
Well, when we started script Chat, Joshua Stecker was a
then online editor of Script Magazine and he is amazing
at social media, really great with Twitter, and he noticed
the hashtag script chat, and since it's Script Magazine, it
caught his attention. And he's also a big history buff

(05:36):
and so when and a journalist, you know, and so
when he saw the project I was working on, clay
By of a name, he and that my partner in
that project is the author of the book, who at
the time was a senior national correspondent of the Wall
Street Journal. And Joshua was just really intrigued by the
whole project that we're working on and offered us an

(05:59):
opportunity to just do one uh blog online about the project,
and after getting to know me for over the course
of the following year, that one blog turned into my
weekly column, Balls of Steel, which I don't have the
time to write weekly anymore. But and that's how Balls

(06:19):
and Steel was born. And you know that's Tuscript magazine
found me. And then once Balls and Steel was Steel
was born and then they needed an editor. I raised
my hand, you know, because it's nice having a day
job that's in the in the industry.

Speaker 5 (06:32):
So so you know, you use this as a great
networking tool. You know, have you gotten other like, you know,
writing jobs just from people finding you on Twitter like
sort of like you know, they try to contact you
to heart write scripts for them.

Speaker 6 (06:43):
Yeah. Like there's a guy who's from London, Clive Frayne.
He got me together and some other people.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (06:57):
He was at the time, he was in Milan. We
had a writer in New Mexico, one in la and
one in London, and we were working on a TV
project that we were going to have uh that was
going to be picked up in London and ended up
losing funding at the last minute. But it was an
incredible experience to work on a TV show that even

(07:20):
though it didn't get greenlit, I still learned so much.
And it was in my episode was a whorehouse hostage takeovers,
which was so much fun to write, and it was
great because it was just another way for me to
I didn't know what the hell I was doing, but
I just rolled with it, and it's another way to

(07:41):
just step I totally stepped outside of my comfort zone
doing it because I didn't know, you know, I wasn't
a TV writer, you know, and I just kind of
imagined someone standing behind me holding a remote control so that,
you know, at any time, they could click away, and
that that really helped me. But yeah, so I got that,
and I got another gig writing like educational videos that

(08:04):
we wrote like in a sitcom format, and that was
from some of a director I met on Twitter. I mean,
I've gotten a lot of gigs side gigs and my
job really from people I met online.

Speaker 5 (08:17):
So I'm sorry I have to go back for that.
It's it's hussle taker. It's actually a hostile situation and
a whorehouse.

Speaker 6 (08:24):
Yeah, it.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Was so good.

Speaker 6 (08:28):
And then when I wrote it, they ended and I
killed this this character and they ended up the character
who I just made up for the episode in order
to kill him, and and they loved the characters so
much they were like, okay, you have you can't kill
him now, you have to keep him alive because we
want to use him in another episode. It's like, oh shit,
So I had to come up with a whole other
way to figure out how to you know what the

(08:49):
climax of my episode was going to be now because
they just took it away. But it was But it
was really really fun experience, you know, you.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Know, it's it's funny. I have a friend of mine.

Speaker 5 (08:59):
He wrote something called House of Horrors, and basically it's
like imagine if Hostile, the movie Hostile and Home Alone mixed.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
That's what House of Horrors is.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
Oh and yeah, It's like they have all these they
sell these traps and they find out like, you know,
these prostitutes are leading these guys into this you know,
this truck stop area and then killing them one by
one and then they the guys trying to deeper hand
by saying these traps and uh, it's just it was
funny because he told me he sent it out and
some of the reactions that he gets just by the

(09:31):
name alone He's like, people were like, I don't know
if I want to read this to you know, you
know this, I don't know because it's a comedy horror,
so it's kind of falls that gray area. Have you
seen a lot of things like that, you know, where
where sort of scripts sort of get passed over, mainly
over over, like you know, just because of like the
title or even just the you know, the log line.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.

Speaker 6 (10:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's so much easier for
them to say no than it is to say yes,
and and it you know, because when you think about it,
like in the publishing world, like I've got a lot
of fun to have met online who are novelists, and
I watched them pump out novel after novel after novel,
whether it's with traditional publishing or whether it's fell published,

(10:26):
Because it doesn't take millions of dollars to publish a book,
you know, but to create a turn a screenpoint into
a movie takes can take millions of dollars. So it's
so much easier for them to say no and not
get in trouble with their boss, you know, for saying
yeah to something that you might bomb, you know. And

(10:48):
also the way the economy is now, you know, after
the crash in two thousand and eight, it's just different.
They're not willing to take as many chances. You see
so many more writers now doing web series. It's doing
things that, you know, looking to put their shows on YouTube,
like you know, did anything outside of the box of

(11:08):
traditional production. Because it's just you have to be creative
and think of a different way to get your story
out there. I even encourage writers to write their scripts
turn them into novels because then their intellectual property. And
half of what Hollywood does is half of the films
that are at or out of patience. So you know,

(11:28):
now you're opening up your script for one hundred percent
of the market, not to pass as the market by
being a non intellectual property. So and I am seeing
some writers do that and give that a shot, I mean,
and then they and some I've got a friend who
fell in love with with the process and now just
wants to write novels.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Interesting.

Speaker 5 (11:50):
You know, I actually have a question from the from
one of the audience members. They they actually and I
guess let me actually ask it now since you know
it is just about what we were talking about. It says,
I want to turn my screen my screenplay into a novel.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Novel. Excuse me, i'llah William.

Speaker 5 (12:05):
Peter Blattie who wrote The Exorcists, and he says, do
you think that this is a viable way to get
my screen to get my screenplay and further work noticed
by creating a website and then directing everyone there. So
I think what he's doing is he's trying to, you know,
create a book and then when if someone was adapted,
you can alomatically say hey, I have this screenplay.

Speaker 6 (12:26):
Yeah, I mean I think that. I think. I think
one of the one of the many lessons I learned
from Doug Blackman, who wrote Slavery But I have the
Name is when you have this piece of the you know,
this this thing that you created, whether it be a
book or script or whatever, you to think about all
the different ways you can tap into that to utilize

(12:48):
that piece of property that instead of just thinking of
this is just a feature film, you know period. You know,
the Key's got the book and turned it into a
documentary for PBS. I wrote that at the narrative adaptation
with him. It's studying material for classes. He'd love to
make a play out of it. I mean, like you

(13:09):
have to think about, like all the different things you
can do with that piece of intellectual property that you have.
And so if it's the other benefit too, just as
a writer is knowing that if you turn it into
a book, if you publish it, and self publishing it
is an absolutely credible option. Now it's not considered vanity

(13:30):
publishing anymore. So you killed yourself to write the script,
You killed yourself to write this story. You must love
it if you're going to be pitching it and staying
with it, if you haven't abandoned it yet, So why
not put it in some sort of form that people
can read it, so it's not just fitting on your
hard drives. And even if it never fells as a screenplay,

(13:51):
people are out there reading your words and reading your story,
and you're getting some sort of validation back from that.
And it's part of why I blog, because when I blog,
people are reading my words, even if it's just a
thousand words, somebody's reading it, you know, and it makes
me feel there's a sense of satisfaction in that as

(14:11):
a writer. Instead of having everything I do just sit
on my far drive and you know, if it doesn't
get made into a movie, nobody sees it. So yeah,
I would definitely tell them, yes, do it.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Oh excellent.

Speaker 5 (14:23):
And you know that's something I brought up to too,
because I actually brought up graphic novel adaptation because you know,
I was actually listening to another podcast and they brought up,
you know, how to go to Amazon and you can
create a kindel version, and then they also brought up
how to create an actual physical version that's basically put
on demand, so that way, you know, it's a win

(14:45):
win for everybody. So you know, and like you said,
it's not vanity anymore, you know, self publishing. I I
was talking to a guest I forget off the top
of my head, which guests was. But they actually brought
up the fact that it would take a lot for
them to actually go back to, you.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Know, pitching again to like Penguin or you know, random.

Speaker 5 (15:01):
Books, because they think it's more viable now to just
self publish yourself, create your own Amazon store, and go
and girl off your own website like you have, you
have your own blog and now you have people going
directly to your website, which is genievb dot com.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
And you know, people can now see.

Speaker 5 (15:18):
All your other work, you know, so it's like your
your care your your own marketing department pretty much, and
your own your own content creation everything.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Well.

Speaker 6 (15:26):
And one of our one of our scrip Check co
founders Jamie Livingstone, and I should mention, uh, the other
co founders are King Garland and Zach Sandford. Jamie took
a little break from screenwriting and started writing novels, thinking
she would just, oh, yeah, I'll write a couple of novels.
But her novels have become so popular that she can't
stop writing them because their audience wants another one. And

(15:48):
she joined together with and forgive me, Jamie if you're listening,
and I get this wrong, but I think this is
how it went. She joined together with six other authors,
and they are the Unlucky Seven, and they they sell
their books collectively together, these thriller books, seven thriller books,
and they are like USA today best selling authors. They

(16:11):
might even have just become New York Times with song authors.
I don't know, I'll have to book that up and see.
But if you look up Unlucky Seven you can find them.
And but and this is this is a woman who's
you know, a screenwriter and said I need a break,
I need to do something different, and started writing these novels.
And she did easily turn them these new series because

(16:31):
she has a series of novels, so she could easily
turn them into a TV show into what, you know,
all different kinds of things. And but those stories are
out there to get attention from people. And you know,
you got to if you're a writer, you need to write.
And and there's no point in writing something that nobody
ever gets to read.

Speaker 5 (16:51):
Yeah, and I'll link to that in the show notes too,
the Unlucky Seven.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
But yeah, that's pretty interesting.

Speaker 5 (16:57):
And you know, and and you know, just creating like
this podcast too is it's just a different way. So
I know it's not writing obviously, but what you know,
I just use that sort of I think it's good
because it's something I wanted to do.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Just to do it.

Speaker 5 (17:14):
It was sort of like all my my two thousand
and four things to you know, get started list because
I was part of other podcast you know, and uh,
but you know, but you know, it's also I think
another way to you know, get exposure for not only me,
but the guests you know, somebody ever stumps upon something.

Speaker 6 (17:28):
You know, absolutely absolutely, and script chat did that for
us very much though, Like it got us exposure, it
got us recognized by people. You know, people then would
start contacting us to say, you know, I want to
be a guest on script chat. I mean, it's a
great networking tool, and it also is a it's not
just that it's it's it's a pay it forward thing,

(17:50):
you know, where you're you're talking about something you love
and you're also giving this you know, content to your
listeners so that they can learn, and it leaves you
feeling warm and fuzzy and leaves people feeling warm and
fuzzy about you, and it's just a win win Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
Absolutely so.

Speaker 5 (18:09):
So you know, Genie, you know, could you give us,
you know, just to switch topics, but could you give us,
you know, what is your daily writing life like I mean,
like what is your daily uh you know, your daily routine?

Speaker 6 (18:22):
Like insane?

Speaker 5 (18:26):
Well that's because that tells you with two questions and
I've figured, you know what, I might as well just
ask this with kill two birds one stone.

Speaker 6 (18:34):
Yeah, well, okay, there's things about my life that people
you know, I'm one of us feels like really open
about stuff I'm not. I don't try to pretend I'm
something I'm not or anything like that. I mean, I am.
I am my reader at Script Magazine. I'm hustling, I'm writing.
I'm trying to juggle a day job and a family.
And and I have uh one daughter in college, and

(18:58):
my son is a senior in high school, and and
so we've been applied to colleges and doing all that
kind of stuff. And I've got pets, and I've I've
got and if Script magazine. What a lot of people
don't know is I don't have a team at Script.
It's just me, and I have sixty contributors. So I
manage these sixty contributors and edit all of the work

(19:20):
that you see online. And so it's it's juggling. It
is challenging. But what I've discovered is that, you know,
I think what was the biggest buss is for me
that works for me. For other people, I think what
really works for them is to have the nine to

(19:40):
five job where you go you just focus on your
work nine to five and you come home and you
don't have that kind of job where you know you
have to take it home with you. You might have
to work on the weekends at night, and then you
can just focus on your writing on those off hours.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 6 (20:04):
For me, my job is not like that because I
have people from all different time zones. I've got writers
in la and I have writers in London, so I
get emails all the time. And since they're freelance writers,
a lot of time they're working and writing their articles
on the weekends. They don't have boundaries of nine to five.
So I can't have boundaries of nine to five. So

(20:25):
that's the challenge for me in finding time to write.
And when your kids are hungry. Your kids are hungry,
they want dinner on the table, you know. And I'm
still pretty old fashioned that way, you know, like I
still have dinner on the table every night, and you know,
all that kind of stuff. But so what I do
is I find that I never used to be a

(20:46):
morning writer. Like right now, while we're talking, my my
daughter's texting me because she's at the supermarket and one,
you know, to get hold on, Okay, I'm going to
ignore her. So and so what I do is I
get up in the morning and I end I try to.

Speaker 7 (21:06):
Just write, Like as soon as I get the kid
off to school and get the dog fed, I sit
down and I try to write, because I find that
if I try to do all my other stuff first
and then write, I'm too tired at the end of
the night, Like I can't write after dinner.

Speaker 6 (21:23):
Like I know a lot of people can write at night,
late into the night. I can't do that. I'm too tired.
I want a drink. I'm done. So I start my
day writing and then I'll pop in check my email
at work, make sure everything is okay. And then as
soon as I'm like okay, tapped out, wrote that scene,
wrote whatever it was my goal was for the day.

(21:44):
Even if I honestly dave, even if I only write
for fifteen minutes, I have to write something because or
else I'm just a bitch. Like it gets me irritable,
like I didn't take care of myself today may speak.
Then as the day goes on, I start getting resentful
because I didn't I didn't do what I wanted to do.
So I try really really hard to do that. I'm

(22:05):
not always successful, but I do try to write in
the morning and then and then I and then I
go full full on into my day job and just
work work, work, work, work, And then if but if
I'm inspired and I want to keep writing in the morning,
and I just am on a roll, I keep writing,
and then I then I will many many nights, I

(22:27):
will end up doing my day job until eleven o'clock
at night because I have to do what I didn't
do during the day. But I'm very blessed to work
from home so that I have that flexibility to tap
into my creativity when I'm feeling it. And I know
a lot of other people don't have that. But and
then I try on the weekends, I dedicate Sunday Funday,

(22:50):
you know, and so I try to do all my
mom's stuff on Saturday so that on Sunday is my
day and I can just write. That's how I find
works for me.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Well excellent.

Speaker 5 (23:03):
So, you know, because a lot of people do work
the nine to five, and sometimes there are like, you know,
people who are on call. So like if they do
work the nine to five, suddenly are they getting you know,
calls at you know, eight o'clock at night.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
You know, yeah, exactly, so easy.

Speaker 6 (23:18):
The other thing too. I'll do the introjet for a second.
The other thing too, is to try to write on
your lunch break, like you know, just just really be
disciplined and write any second you can. I'm actually one
of my friends had contacted me the other day nervous.
He had opportunity for to take on a gig to
write a script and actually get paid to do it.

(23:39):
And he was very nervous to say yes because how
am I going to find a time to do this?
And and so I put a call out onto Facebook
and onto Twitter for people to give me advice about
how they work a day job and get writing done.
And people send in a ton ton of comments and
tweets which I've collected, and I will write a few

(24:00):
your balls and steal about this, just bullet lifting everybody's
ideas of how to get how to get that done.
I probably won't write it for a couple of weeks,
but when I do, I'll shoot to the url.

Speaker 5 (24:11):
Oh thank you, you know, because you know I speak
of you know, you said writing at least fifteen minutes.
And I remember I got advice before from someone from
an actual working writer at in LA and he said
the same thing because basically, he said, as long as
you can just even get a small amount done, he said,

(24:32):
by the end, he actually timed it out. He said,
if what he tries to do is it's at least
fifteen minutes a day, and at most, he said.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
He'll just do it. He like sort of burns.

Speaker 5 (24:41):
Out and on those magical days when you know, sort
of everything, his schedule clears up, and basically he tries
to get a rough draft done within like three to
four weeks.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
What have you heard?

Speaker 5 (24:55):
I mean, is your style similar to that we try
to get, you know, just that first draft bang, guys
quickly possible?

Speaker 6 (25:03):
It's well, yes, I'm actually trying a different process right now,
which I'll discuss in one second. I just want to
say this about this current topic so that I don't forget.
But one of the beautiful things about the fifteen minutes
is even just even just getting if you spend fifteen

(25:25):
minutes on it, what's going to happen is your mind
is still going to be thinking about it all throughout
the day. And so that fifteen minutes really is a
lot more than fifteen minutes, because even if you're not
putting words on the page and you're thinking about it.
That counts as writing because you're digesting and developing the
story in your head. And the other trick I would

(25:48):
say that helps you pick right up quickly. Would you
only have fifteen minutes? Is don't finish like never never
completely finish a scene so that you have and say, oh,
now I'm done today because I finished the scene. If
you if your goal is to finish that scene, finish it,
but then start the next scene before and then stop

(26:08):
for the day, because if you've already started the scene,
your head's going to be thinking about that scene throughout
the day. So when you sit back down, you're not
looking at a blank page and you've already been digesting it,
so you can just kind of hit the ground running.
Those are little things that I think have helped me.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
So so then so what process now are are you
using to write this new scroup? I?

Speaker 6 (26:35):
Oh yeah, Oh my god, I am so far out
of my comfort zone, dave it. I just I just
had a long talk with about this yesterday because I
was freaking out because it's so different than what I
normally do. I normally outline. I'm like an outline junkie,
and I think part of it is because I hate
starting things, so outlining, I just you know, outline, out line,

(27:00):
and I kind of sometimes use it too much as
a safety net. And even though I never really I
stick to the outline somewhat, I never have a problem
when I'm writing going off the outline, exploring characters, all
of that kind of stuff. But for some reason, I
just kind of need an outline. And and and so
an Unk never writes for the outline. He might have

(27:23):
just sort of a broad brushstroke, but he's been doing
this for years and and I don't know, if you
just to clarify, I'm known screenwriters, a ghostwriter. He writes
for hire, you know, credit with NDAs. He's written, He's
written with some incredible people and rewritten some incredibly talented

(27:45):
cop writers. I mean, he's he's been at this for
a very long time. So he is challenging me to
try to embrace with this new project that we're working on,
his style, which and I'm I love challenging myself. I
love trying different different propsses and seeing what works best
for me and discovering new ways to do things and

(28:08):
new ways to tap into that creative energy. So we
are literally writing the first draft. Like it's like we're
brainstorming like I have when I send him this when
I write something and I sent him the script to
pick up where we left off. I never know what
he's going to do. Like this last scene. He sent
it back to me and he'd kill someone and I'm

(28:28):
like okay, and we're like exploring characters, and so I
was like, Okay, I'm struggling with this. I'm really struggling.
I'm feeling like I don't know, like I'm standing blindfolded
in the middle of the forest, you know, like where
am I supposed to go? You know? And he and
so he's just encouraging me to He's like, you know,

(28:50):
you am reminding me of things like and this is
what's great when you have a writing partner knows you
well and knows and knows you know, like what might
he could look at my fear objectively and not emotionally
and remind me. Look, you're a martial artist. When you're
standing in the dojo and somebody starts fighting, you do
you do you sit there and think about it. You

(29:11):
just react. You just you know, block, punch, kick, whatever
you have to do. You just muffle memory and you
just relax and do it. So do the same thing
when you're writing, like shut the door, like Stephen King says,
and just write and can and take that pressure off
of your shelves and just think of it as like
you're just brainstorming, but in script format, so that then

(29:31):
by the end of the time of brainstorming, instead of
having an outline, we have a script and then we
can play with that. And so I'm trying that, and
I think.

Speaker 8 (29:44):
I'm gonna like it, but it's a little it's a
little scary for somebody who's used to outlining, but there's
tons of people who do it this way and and
don't outline.

Speaker 6 (29:55):
So I'm just trying a different a different process of time.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 5 (30:09):
So, so, Genie, when you outline, do you like what
exactly do you how do you outline?

Speaker 3 (30:16):
And what I mean by that is do you like
go by like sid fields? Uh? Two points? You know
what I mean? I forget the name of Selt my head.
I can't believe, uh no, I know.

Speaker 6 (30:26):
And there's all those different ways, like the beach sheet
and in the Hero's journey, and there's so many different
structure ways I think. I think once you when you're
starting out, it's really important to pay attention to that
kind of stuff. And then at a certain point, a
certain point, you sort of get to a point where
you know story well enough that you don't have to

(30:48):
look at that roadmap kind of thing. One of the
things when I started that I really loved was Michael
Haig and Chris Fogler have a DVD called The Hero's
Two Journy, and I thought that was that was something
that really helped me when I was beginning because it
talked about not just the structure in terms of plot points,

(31:08):
but also the structure in terms of the character's arc
and evolution, and that I thought was a really great
resource for a beginning writer. And even to remind yourself,
I would go back and watch it, you know, right
before I would start any news script, just to kind
of refresh my mind and memory of it. But then
it just becomes intuitive. So what I what I had

(31:30):
been doing? Oh my god, like with Slavery by another name,
that that script had become Slavery by in some respect.
It's like six years, you know, into it, but we
had a thirty one page outline, and by the time
that it got to that point, it was like flug lines.
I would then do this really detailed outline and then

(31:52):
put it into the screenwriting software and with complete with
slugline and a paragraph each what was supposed to happen
in the intent and purpose of that scene. And that
helped me because I was never ever looking at a
blank page. So I would go in and I would
look at this is what I'm going to do, and

(32:13):
then I would just sit down and write that scene.
And sometimes things would change. Scenes, we'd get deleted and
added and change, you know. You know. The trick to
outlining is never to think of it as something that's
set and s done. You have to like let it go,
you know. But at least it gives you sort of
a little map and you can veer off of it
and whatnot. And that has that was always my comfort zone,

(32:33):
knowing that I had this, Okay, this is I'm a planner,
so it helped me to know I have a plan,
this is the plan of this scene, and this is
what's going to happen.

Speaker 5 (32:42):
Yeah, you know, I've outlined too, and I'm sure other
people have and suddenly. You know, when you start writing,
you either realize you've not written enough, you've written too much,
and you're like, oh my god, I thought was going
to be you know, a two page scene is now
spanning fifteen pages, and yes, and that's.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
On you sort of.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
So when that happens, do you just sort of continue
with the just doing it and then then you'll edit
later and when you're finished a rough draft, Yeah, I.

Speaker 6 (33:10):
Just I just let it go, just write however much
I want to write. The first draft of Slavery by
Now the name was one hundred and seventy five pages,
and it's an epic story. But nothing's worth one hundred
and seventy five, so it's I think it's now like
one hundred and thirty two, but it's but it isn't
you know, it's a little lengthy, but it is an

(33:31):
epic story. I wouldn't if it was any other story
other than this, I wouldn't have it be that long.
But but yeah, you just let it go and then
and you can. I mean, that's what rewriting is all about,
because you never know what's going to come out like,
and even when people would give me notes and I
wouldn't like those notes, I wouldn't agree with them, I
would still try them because you know, there might be

(33:56):
something in that note, there's something in it that's worthy
of something. It might not be the exact note they
gave me, that their solution might not be the solution
that I ended up using, But by trying something, I
could always find a solution that worked for me and
the note giver. And that and when I say a

(34:17):
solution that worked for the note giver, it only needs
to work for the note giver. If the notegiver is
your producer, If it's just somebody who's reading your script
to give you notes, you don't have to worry about
pleasing them. You just listen to what they're saying and
see if it works for your story or not. But
when I had producers, definitely pleasing them is important.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (34:40):
I'm part of a writer's group and we always, you know,
give each other notes. You know, we hands in you know,
script each month, not completed scripts, but usually like.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Ten to twenty pages.

Speaker 5 (34:51):
And when you get notes, you see a lot of
different ideas, you know, stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
So that's a very good point.

Speaker 5 (34:56):
The point you just brought up was take the note
from the other readers and see if you agree with
it and see how it would help your story, and
also see, you know, the person saying it and why
they're saying it. Mean, like what are they trying to convey,
because some people will have, you know, certain things like
they just want to read horror scripts or some people
who just want to read comedies, you know, and you know,

(35:16):
I think that also obviously weighs into whatever they're trying
to convey.

Speaker 6 (35:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (35:22):
Yeah, uh so, Genie, do you want to take some
questions because you have a lot, but I'm not gonna
take I'm not gonna ask all of them. Uh, Like
I was just just mentioned to you as we started this,
there was a lot that came in at.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Like the midnight hour.

Speaker 5 (35:36):
Whatever you want to ask, sure, so I'll ask probably
the best five or so. So the first question actually
had came in this is by John who's a producer
on the screen, the producer of the film The Walking
Full and his question is does one script excuse me,
there's one page of the script equal one page on screen?

Speaker 6 (35:57):
You know, I mean I think it's it's typically that's
the rule. Like when you're writing, you think of one
minute is one page, but it depends on what's on
the page and what the director decides to do with that.
And you know, but that's the basic standard rule. It
doesn't exactly like if you stat there would stop watch,

(36:18):
you know, like and it doesn't exactly make a minute,
but that's just the way to gauge.

Speaker 5 (36:25):
Yeah, by the way, have you seen that yet the
commercial because they're doing any go go for it and
he actually the film is all about a guy who
actually walked from New York all the way to California.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
Oh cool, And I don't know if you if you've
heard of it yet.

Speaker 6 (36:42):
We have a walking stick because I'm really into walking
sticks lately.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
He did.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
There's different pictures of him going through all the different
states and some states he actually had a walking stick.

Speaker 6 (36:51):
I want one that has like a little button that
you pushed that a knife comes out. Because I live
in the country, so I'm walking on these back like
your roads, and there were bear and you know, there's
there's a lot of stuff out there. You know. There
was a completely different side note, But no, I haven't
seen it yet, and I would love to check it out.

Speaker 5 (37:11):
There was a walking stick that I saw that actually
unfolded and there was a sword inside, so like it
was this steck. This stick was actually the sheath so
you would pull it out, and it was actually a
double bladed sword.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
So I guess if there was a bear, you could
actually fend it off.

Speaker 5 (37:27):
At least you had something, and then you could just
resheath it and then get it's a walking stick again.

Speaker 6 (37:31):
Oh my god, I totally want that. I totally want
that so bad.

Speaker 5 (37:38):
As Yeah, I saw like a couple of years ago,
I was looking my mom was asking for a walking stick,
and I found it and I was like, wow, I
was liked, you get it. No, I didn't get it
because I don't think she would probably be like, oh
my god, I'm never using it, because she'll she'll only
used like certain stuff. And I know if I showed
it there was a sword inside, she'd be like, oh

(37:58):
my god, I'll get arrested.

Speaker 6 (38:00):
But she probably send you to therapy.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (38:07):
So the the second question is how does an unknown
screenwriter get representation?

Speaker 6 (38:14):
Oh my god, this is like this this week could
talk all day about. I think basically what there's there's
a lot of stuff that that like, I've moderated a
lot of panels the conferences where we've got panels of
the agents and managers and everybody. Everybody wants to know
like this magic trick, you know, and actually wrote a

(38:35):
post called the magic trick is selling your screenplay. It's
one of my Balls and Steel posts where you know,
I talk about some of that, but basically in terms
of getting representation, specifically not selling it from what I
don't have representation, and but I have gotten my script
read by like the top agencies and great production companies

(38:59):
and things like that, by hustling, like I learned learn
how to pitch. And one of the best ways to
learn how to pitch is to go to UH pitchfests.
And you're not, honestly, you're not going to sell your
script at a pitchfest, but you're going to learn how
to how to pitch your script, how to get comfortable

(39:20):
talking to executives. You're going to make connections, you're going
to get part of You're not just trying to sell
your script. You're trying to sell yourself. And because if
they say yeah to the script, they're going to have
to work with you. So it really is helpful to
practice those pitching skills with people in those in that
pitchfest environment because you can do every you know, the

(39:41):
pitches are only for five minutes, so you just you're
in line. You just go go, go, go, go for
hours all day and you can easily get in like,
you know, fifteen eighteen pitches in a day, and those
are fifteen or eighteen people.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
Who will be right back after a word from our sponsor.
And now back to the show.

Speaker 6 (40:05):
If you had to drive all around LA and try
to get meetings with you never would be able to.
And yeah, I mean there's no question a lot of
them are assistants, you know, but today's assistant is tomorrow's
studio head. That people change companies so often in this
industry that they may be at x y Z company
today but over at ABC Company tomorrow, you know, and

(40:27):
that may be the fit for your script, you know,
like so and they might just and the trick is
getting read so that people know whether you're a good
writer or not. And if you're a really good writer,
your script is going to stand out. And so the
other way to do it is by entering contests like
like this tracking board launch pad. The whole purpose of

(40:50):
this is not it's to try to get these twenty
five top writers to launch their careers. The blacklist is
another great way too. It's not a contest, but it's
just it's a great way to get feedback on your
script and get it listed. And so many executives do
look at the blacklist to find material you can tag

(41:11):
your your stuff. I just I just entered slavery, run
another name into what. I'm waiting for the feedback so
that it could be listed, because I'm curious to see
how the process works. I know, you know they've got
they've had people get representation from that as well. The best,
you know, the big contest like Austin the Austin Field

(41:32):
Festival one is really good final draft, big break script,
a Plue the Blue Cat. When it's the big contest,
executives will notice they will read those and you may
not even know they're reading your script if it if
it places as a finalist, people will just read them.

(41:53):
It's not like they'll even contact you to say we're
gonna read your script. They just get them. And so
but don't I would say, don't bother with the contests
that are that are smaller that unless there it's like
a contest that gives you, like, you know, money as
a prize that and you need the money. But if

(42:13):
you're if it's a smaller contact, they're not going to
really notice the representations. The reps aren't really going to
notice those, you know. So unless they offer feedback or
something else that you find a personal value, they probably
aren't going to help you career wise. But you know,
just and write a lot like right. The other you know,

(42:33):
the other thing is you've got to write something that's marketable,
something they can sell. There's no point in them reping
you like And that's this is why this is probably
why I don't have an agent yet, because the the
thing that I'm most known for is slavery by another name,
which is a very very difficult thing to sell. And
everyone who reads it says, oh my god, this has

(42:54):
to get made. This is such an important story, and
it's about slavery post Civil War, everything that's going on
right now with Ferguson and all of this relations between
the law enforcement and the African American community. Slaverbread of
a name is all about prison laboring and how the
souths after the Civil War, how the South created these
laws relave to re enslave blacks by arresting them for

(43:17):
these false crimes and then leasing them as prison laborers.
And that's why slavery by another name, and this is
and before those laws were created, blacks and whites, they're
fifty to fifty blacks and whites in prisons. And then
after these laws a disproportionate number of African Americans were
imprison and that leads a stigma in society where people

(43:40):
start thinking, oh, my god, they are dangerous people, and
they aren't. It's you know, it's the laws that were created.
And you know, years and years of that happening, you know,
changes society's perception of a culture. And so it's extremely
timely right now. So I'm hoping that that helps us.

(44:02):
But it's still a very difficult sell because it's a
period piece. It you know, it's not going to be
a cheap film to make, so you need to to
get representation. They need to know they can sell something
and make money off of you. So I'm writing other
things right now with ONNK and myself that are much
more marketable, that are easier to sell, so that then

(44:23):
hopefully I can get those sold and then someone to
look at slavery. So you know, don't pick don't do
what I did and pick that monumental, herculean project, you know,
and and have that be your your your thing that's
on the forefront. You know, think, think smaller and marketable
and something that they can sell, because that's you know,

(44:43):
that's how they put food on their table, is to
sell yourself.

Speaker 5 (44:48):
So that ties in with the My next question you're
speaking of a solable screenplay is how to tell?

Speaker 3 (44:54):
How do you tell if you have a good concept
or not.

Speaker 5 (44:58):
Oftentimes I'll up a concept and begin writing only to
hit a dead end.

Speaker 6 (45:07):
That is the million dollar question, I mean, if you
know what I mean, really, I think it's it's one
of the things that I did. You know, we're working
on this project now. It's a horror project, and over
Thanksgiving I pitched it to my nieces and nephews who
are all like in that target audience range eighteen to
twenty five, you know, and they were all like, oh

(45:29):
my god, oh my god, I would totally see that.
Oh my god. You know, Like, so you want that
kind of reaction from your target audience. But also think
about think about budget, think about because those are also
things that matter. You know, eighteen to twenty five year
old males are like, I think, the biggest audience for

(45:51):
films and they'll go see them multiple times. So if
you can tap into that, you know, but you also
have to find not just the mar marketable idea, but
the idea that you can be passionate about writing, because
if you weren't, if you're just writing a horror piece,
you know, horror dot horror, but like a total like
horror piece for money for whatever, just to see if

(46:13):
you can break in that way, but you aren't passionate
about it, it's it's going to show on the page.
So the trick is finding something that you have you
can tap into and and and really enjoy writing that
somebody can sell and there would be an audience for
it that has not a monumental budget, because that matters too,

(46:40):
you know. So it's it's tricky. I mean, there's a
high concept you know, is uh is it is really tough.
I was talking to a professional writer, Joe Zoom one day.
He was a guest on script shot. He's I think
one of his scripts is on Track and Boards Hitlist,

(47:02):
and he was telling me that with his manager he
will literally go over one hundred ideas, one hundred or
more ideas, and his aunt, his manager will say, this
is the one you're going to write. So if you
can get representation, they can certainly help you decide which

(47:23):
one they think they can sell. But I would say,
look at things like the hit list, look at the blacklist,
look at the top twenty five on the tracking board,
launch pad, look at log lines of things that are selling,
and sort of research and figure out. And it's not
about following the trends. It's about figuring out what made that?

(47:46):
Why was that log line so good? You know, like
it takes a while to hone that skill of figuring
out what is the project? And honestly, I think you're
better off spending a lot of time figure out what
to write then just writing any idea that you have,
because you know, if you write it and you can't

(48:09):
sell it, you still learn stuff from brighting things even
if you don't sell it, so it still helps Holmee.
You're writing skills. But if you're really trying to get
representation and sell something, spend a lot of time figuring
out what it is you're going to write that would
attract somebody, would attract the audience, isn't going to cost
a fortune to make, especially if you're just breaking in,
you know, because if it's not going to cost a

(48:31):
lot to make, you can also do it as an
indie film.

Speaker 5 (48:34):
Too, exactly right. And you know we were talking about
that with Pat's guests as well. Was you know, if
you had to, if you sort of reverse engineer it
by taking a list of what you have, which is
sometimes called the ri Regaz list, So hey, I have
access to like this farmhouse and stuff like that, and
suddenly you're building basing a film there, you know, settings

(48:54):
entirely inside of this farmhouse. And you know that way,
if it doesn't get notice that way, you can just
try to crowdfund it, or you know, pull every resource
you have together to make this small film and maybe
just put up on YouTube, just try to get noticed.

Speaker 6 (49:07):
Yeah, I mean, and people do it all the time.
They make these these films and then they go they
submit them to film festivals and they get noticed and
they win awards, and then they go on to do
something bigger. You know, it happens all the time.

Speaker 5 (49:20):
And speaking of a million dollar questions, this is, uh,
this ties in with what we're talking about and this
is this is another million dollar question is getting discovered,
which is I'm hoping to get discovered with my screenplay,
but I don't know where to start this person list,
the Blacklist, tracking Board, script shadow, Is there a specific
website that they should put their material on for a

(49:43):
better chance of getting noticed.

Speaker 6 (49:46):
The first thing I would say, before you put your
script anywhere, make sure it is the best possible script
that it can be, and so get feedback.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 6 (50:07):
You know, don't put it out too soon, because there's
like you know, there's they keep track of stuff like that,
you know, like whether whether to consider the writer or not,
not just the idea, but the writer. So you want
to make sure that it's written well because you don't
want to have like a red mark next to your name.

(50:28):
So one of the things that like the tracking Board
does and the Blacklist does is you get you get feedback.
And I know a lot of people talk about that
line to pay for coverage, not line to pay for notes.
I think I've always done it. I've always gotten some

(50:48):
sort of coverage and and not coverage so much, but
you know, notes and script notes, especially when I started off.
Now I don't. Now I don't really pay for them anymore.
I mean I did on the Blacklist and on the
Track and Board, but because I have great respect for them.
But for the most part, I mean I have I
have friends who are great writers, and we trade scripts

(51:10):
with each other and we give each other notes. But
for these opportunities to get noticed, I'm not opposed to paying.
And I look at it as it's like you're paying
for a tutor. You know, it's part it's an investment
in myself and in my education as a writer, and
so I always learned something from notes that makes me

(51:32):
a better writer. So before you list it anywhere, make
sure it is the best possible script that it can be,
and then submit it. And I would definitely say all
of those things that I mentioned in those contests that
we talked about earlier are all great ways to get noticed.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
So, you know, just to continue that question, what if
somebody just put a screenplay up on their own.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Website, like they actually create a website.

Speaker 5 (52:00):
Uh, you know, they got wis dot com and I
just built their own website doing very simple stuff.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
What do you think of that idea just sort of
to just to get it out there.

Speaker 6 (52:09):
I wouldn't do it. Okay, I'm not even sure I
can I can articulate why. But I'm a big spidy
sense person. You know, my im media spidy sense was no, no, no,
don't do that, and I trust my gut. I think
there's there's because you know, because you're going to change

(52:31):
I mean, you know, you're going to change it, you're
going to rewrite it, you're going to evolve it. So
if you put it up and it's not just fucking amazing,
then you know, you kind of blow the opportunity to
really have it be this, you know, the best it
can be. I think, you know, because what if somebody

(52:52):
reads it today, but then tomorrow you do a rewrite,
that's just killer. But now they're not going to revisit
it because they already read it, you know, like it's
I don't know, it's just not something I would do.
I think that you're better off just queerying people and
or going to pitching events or entering contests and having
people request it to read it. That's that's me, you know.

Speaker 5 (53:20):
No, I just you know, I just wanted to ask
since we were talking about it, and I heard somebody
once suggested.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
That to me, and I was like, I don't know
about that. So that's why I kind of and.

Speaker 6 (53:31):
I think if your spidey sense immediately says I don't
know about that, I think you have to just trust
that and not go with it, you know, not do it.
And sometimes you don't need like an absolute rational reason
why to do or not do something. Just trust your gut,
you know.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
Yeah, I know what's exactly what you mean.

Speaker 5 (53:51):
So, you know, Genie, I've we've been talking about for
about an hour. I've taken up a lot of your time.
So you're a busy first, I know, so you've like,
I gotta get writing.

Speaker 6 (54:03):
Oh it's a nice break. Actually, it's totally fine.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
Uh So is there anything that we that we have
a discussed that you will like to bring up?

Speaker 6 (54:14):
Yeah, you know, I would like to say on a
little bit about social media and social media etiquette. I
think it's really really important when you're participating in social
media that you are mindful and respectful of people's time
and and and and really what you're there for, you know,

(54:39):
like you're there to connect, You're there to be social,
You're there to build a network and build a relationship.
So it's important for people to not be selfish online
and to be giving. And and you know, like what
you're doing with these podcasts, what I do with script chat,
what you know a lot of other people do, would

(55:01):
just simply you know, and obviously these are big platforms
that not everyone can wants to do and wants to
dedicate that kind of time. But even I'm talking just
as simple as you found a great article you want
to share with other writers, tweet it out, you know.
You know, if you meet if you meet people online
and you think this person might like say, say you

(55:23):
want to write a graphic novel, but you want to
have you need somebody who might you know, you might
need an artist, or you might need something else that
that they say, Oh, I know somebody who could help Dave,
you know, and then introduce those two people. You know,
it's it's it's not about you all the time, you know,
like it's it is about it's a community of people.

(55:44):
And and the best way to get the most value
out of that space is to be a giving person.
And it does, all it does truly come back to you.
And then every once in a while you're going to
need some help and you can say to somebody say, hey,
you know I want it. I'm doing a crowdfunding campaign

(56:05):
or I'm doing this, or I'm doing that. I could
use some help with this. People will be much more
likely to come and help you if you've been helpful
to other people. That's my two cents. And and just
don't suck like you know, I just be a good,
decent human being.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
You know. It's funny.

Speaker 5 (56:24):
I actually knew somebody who would take the Facebook every
time they had a problem with somebody, and they would
just like go into this person, and people all over
like what the hell is with that person?

Speaker 3 (56:36):
Like why would you do that? Delete?

Speaker 6 (56:40):
The delete tweet feature is a very good thing.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
That's why I always try to make jokes or you know,
or networking. That's why I kind of social media if
if you notice, I stay out of politics completely.

Speaker 6 (56:56):
I just talk about them at all.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
Yeah, there's just I don't think it's can do if
to any any sort of dialogue or anything. That's why
it's either self deprecating jokes at myself or like hey,
it's a useful piece of information, and then you know,
look at their one like oh, hey, I got this podcast.
I suck, but the guests don't, so it's yeah.

Speaker 6 (57:14):
And I find that whenever people do talk about politicis,
even if it's even if it's my same political viewpoint,
they always it always pisses people off and people start
on following them and and you know it, and then
it's it's what is what is the point of that? Like,
first of all, why can't we all isn't this what
America is all about? That we all have different view

(57:35):
points of view? And why can't we celebrate that? Why
do people have to get so pissy about it? I
just don't want to engage in it because I find
it's just really really it ends up being biting and negative,
and that's not what I'm there for. I don't really honestly,
I don't really give a shit. Like, you know, everybody
can feel the way they want to feel, and they
have a right to feel they want to the way

(57:55):
they want to feel. But I don't have to feel
the way everyone else feels and everyone else to feel
the way I feel. Just like any advice I've given
today on screenwriting, there you know there's going to be
somebody who disagrees with it, And I'm totally fine with
that because I only speak from my experience as a screenwriter,
and so this has been my experience. Are there other
ways to break in? Are there other ways to get

(58:16):
a manager? Absolutely? You've got a friend who who knows somebody?
I mean, it's definitely like who you know, don't be
afraid to ask people, you know, do you know somebody
who might like the script? You know, ask your friends. Like,
there's so many different ways to go about it. There's
as many ways to break into the industry as there
are people. There's no one right way. And so I

(58:37):
think in social media people have to be open to
different viewpoints and different philosophies and different angles of breaking in.
And some people hate pitchfest. I love them. You know,
they worked for me, they haven't worked for other people.
Everybody's going to have a different experience. So I would
suggest to everyone that they just try dip their toe
in and try a whole bunch of different kinds of

(58:58):
things and see what feels organic and works for you
and then go with that.

Speaker 5 (59:06):
Yeah, that sounds amazing. And also you put on the
point is there's a ton of different ways to break in,
and uh and You never really know who's watching on
social media too, because I mean, and you hear about that.
Uh uh, I don't see all the time, but you hear.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
About them more frequently.

Speaker 5 (59:21):
Is someone was found on Twitter or someone was found
on their blog, like uh, di Ablo Code was found
because of her blog.

Speaker 6 (59:28):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
You know you never know. That's why I think stay
ways from two.

Speaker 6 (59:35):
I think screenoaders really should have websites and have blogged
about something. I don't give a shit if you're blogging
about your cat, you know, just blog about something because
it helps people know that you can tell a story,
and even a story just in five hundred words or
whatever it is for the blog post. That makes them
more confident requesting your script if they see that you

(59:57):
can at least write and.

Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.

Speaker 6 (01:00:09):
Be articulate and tell an engaging story, make them laugh,
make them cry, make them feel something. Plus practically, it
has all your contact information on it, Like, don't make
it hard for people to find you on Twitter. You know,
there's not there. There's not always people that if they
don't have a website, there's nowhere for people to really know,
like to get your email address or to you know,

(01:00:31):
so make it easy for executives to discover you, and
having a website is the best way to do it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:40):
Yeah, that's a good point because I've actually gotten a
ton of contacts through my contact form on my website
and yeah, yeah, so that's you know. And also it's
good because I can filter through all some of the stuff.
Some of the stuff's usually like hey, Dave, I don't
know who you are and you don't know me, but
here's my crowdfunding campaign give me money.

Speaker 6 (01:00:58):
Like oh my god. Yes, you should see some of
the things I get in my email and book. But
we won't go there because that's a whole other we
should do like a Gen's mail bag.

Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
Anytime you want to come back, Genie, please let me know,
and we will do that. We will go through all
the different emails you get because actually that not only
is fascinating, but I think it would be educational as well.

Speaker 6 (01:01:25):
Yeah oh yeah, and we might need to be drinking
for that one.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
Why not.

Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
I mean, I'm drinking coffee right now, but I'll switch
to like wild turkey one oh one.

Speaker 6 (01:01:38):
Or something perfect perfect my favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Do you like wild turkey.

Speaker 6 (01:01:44):
Yeah, I do love it. And you know what's really
great if you soak rollers in it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Oh my god, just really.

Speaker 6 (01:01:51):
Yes, poke little holes in the bottom of the rollers
and stick them in a shallow bowl and put wild
turkey in there. Oh it's great.

Speaker 5 (01:02:01):
You know, I've never I've never heard of that before,
but I'm gonna try it now. That's all I get
through wild turkey one on one because I got addicted
to the American Honey wild turkey because it's just so smooth.

Speaker 6 (01:02:13):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:02:14):
And I had a Thanksgiving party with some friends and
they normally they're like, oh, we don't drink whiskey, and
I put them a little bit of the American Honey
wild turkey and they're like, oh my god, this is amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
This tastes so good. I was like, yeah, it's smooth,
and you know, it's like my go to drink.

Speaker 6 (01:02:30):
Yeah, it's great, and we need that.

Speaker 5 (01:02:35):
We get too many emails about crowdfunding campaigns. I actually
just became a moderator of a board all called the
launch Board, and it's all about you know, tips and
tricks about crowdfunding and this and that. And one of
the rules that the person who who made it said
was do not post your crowdfunding campaign. He goes asking
for advice and trying to promote it are two different things.

(01:02:58):
And he's like, you know, because he and I were
talking and he said he had to leave a bunch
of private groups on Facebook because of that. It was
just so many crowdfunding campaigns one after the other, and
You're like, this isn't even a group anymore. It's just
you know, like a it's a I'm getting marketed to,
and just it's like spam, you know, So it.

Speaker 6 (01:03:14):
Is and it's and I you know, I did it
once for our short film Impass, and we reased over
fifteen thousand dollars. And I'm so so appreciative to everybody
who helped us with that. But I wouldn't I really,
If I never have to do another crowdfunding campaign again
in my life, I'll be thrilled. It's it's exhausting, it's
hard work, it's you know, it's and it's and I

(01:03:37):
don't know, I just I hope I never have to
do one again.

Speaker 5 (01:03:43):
Even I'm sorry, even people you know, I know who
had the quote unquote rich relatives, even they struggled. I'm
not saying, you know, if Famine's listening, I'm not saying
not to do it because you as you know, I've
had a ton of guests on the recent background.

Speaker 6 (01:03:57):
Find so incredible. It's an incredible reason. And there's some
incredible platforms to to do crowdfunding now you know Seed
and Spark. I mean, there's still many great, great platforms
for people to help independent filmmakers get the money to
make their dreams come true. I mean, I think crowdfunding
is great. I have no problem with it. I'm just saying,
as somebody to do it, it's it's it's a lot

(01:04:18):
of work. Oh yeah, absolutely, you earn everything, you know,
a lot of work.

Speaker 5 (01:04:24):
Yeah, oh absolutely, It definitely is a lot of work.
That's what always calls people on before they start one.
I always say, and you know, this is going to
be a lot of work. This is going to be like, oh,
I'm going to send one tweet out and suddenly I'm
going to be, you know, rolling in six figures.

Speaker 6 (01:04:37):
But you see, it's all comes down to the don't
suck because if you stuck on social media, no one
is going to want to help you in your crowdfunding campaign.
I mean, you know it's and you can't think about
that after the fact. Just to think about that from
day one, when you start tweeting or start connecting with
people online, you have to always be mindful of that.
Like I say to my kids, you know, don't say,

(01:05:00):
don't you know, put anything out there that you wouldn't
want to see on the front page of the newspaper.
I just happened to be very comfortable with seeing anything
other front's that. I'm not very guarded, you know, online,
but I think some people should be a little more
guarded than they are.

Speaker 3 (01:05:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:05:19):
I think we all have friends like that where it's like,
maybe you should take that tweet down. Maybe it's not
you know, you're trying to get investors for your film
and he's and he was, you know, tweeting about random
stuff that could be taken very out of context. Oh yeah,
but but Geenie, this has been awesome having you on
where Oh thank you, you know again, Like if you

(01:05:41):
want to come back on, please let me know because
I would love to do the Jenny's mail bag, Jeanie's
mail bag, and you know, we go through all the
crazy emails.

Speaker 6 (01:05:50):
Take a file for that, like the great.

Speaker 5 (01:05:55):
Uh so Genie, where can people find you at?

Speaker 6 (01:05:59):
If you go to Genie vb V as in victorbisboy
dot com, there's a contact page there that has all
the different ways you can stalk me and all different
social media outlets and my email address as well, And careful,
careful if you email me, you might end up on
the show exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:06:18):
Yeah, don't suck and write something crazy. And I'm going
to link to that in the show notes, and as well,
I'm going to put a link to everyone to find
her script maag articles because as we've talked about, Genie
writes the Balls of Steel and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
She has a wonderful, wonderful articles in there that can
help you out.

Speaker 5 (01:06:37):
Thank you everyone for listening Genie, thanks are for coming on,
and if you anything, always give.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
Me a holler.

Speaker 6 (01:06:43):
Thanks, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
Dave, oh my pleasure. All right, have a good day
you too, Take care bye, Bllie.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Indy on muscle
dot com Forward slash eight sixty three and if you
have it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
And leave a good review for the show.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
It really helps us out a lot, guys.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
Thank you again so much for listening to guys.

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast at
indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
F I L M h U S T l E
dot com.