Sean Gunn on California Split

Sean Gunn you may know from Gilmore Girls or his work on Guardians of the Galaxy. Or from one of the other many, many shows and movies he's been in over the years. Listen in on his conversation with Chuck about Robert Altman's California Split. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hey, everybody, Welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview edition here
from Pont City Market, Atlanta, Georgia. Had another great talk
today everybody with Shawn Gunn. I met Sean. I think
I teased this out a few weeks ago. I met
Shawn at a wedding a couple of weeks ago in
Santa Barbara, California, to a mutual friend, I believe his fiancee.
His friends with my friend who was getting married. Sean

(00:47):
came along and he was seated at my table at dinner,
and uh, he is a very cool, great guy and
it was a lot of fun to talk to out
there in California. So I got his contact information. He
actually owns a home here in Atlanta because he was
shooting so much here. Uh, a few actors are doing
that now. They're buying places here in Atlanta, which is

(01:08):
pretty smart. So he obviously was working on the in
the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which shoots here in Atlanta a lot.
So he was on Guardians one and two, and uh,
you've seen his work in the Gilmore Girls Ladies. He
was on that show. We talked about that today. He
was on that show for seven years, which is kind
of great. And then again with the with the relaunch

(01:29):
of it a couple of years ago, and uh, he
picked the movie California Split, the great, great classic Robert
Altman film from nineteen seventy four that I had never seen. Uh,
this is one that got by me. So I was
able to watch it this morning, as did he, and
we had a really really good talk about it. Uh.
Shaun is very insightful guy, and it was fun to

(01:50):
talk to him about not only this movie and and
Robert Altman, but his his life growing up in a
large family of siblings closely packed together in age and
devouring movies and pop culture and in suburban St. Louis,
and then all of them somehow kind of getting involved
in the entertainment industry. His brother James obviously uh the

(02:14):
director of The Guardians movies, and his his other siblings
too have kind of involved in the film industry. So
it was very cool, good conversation about art and acting
and uh and his training in college and beyond and
sort of his career path. It's always interesting to see
how people got where they are, and certainly was in
this case with Mr Gunn. So here we go with

(02:35):
Sean gunn on California Split my first beer podcast, my
first drinking one, which is kind of surprising. Ever broken
lizard guys in here. I figured they would be drinking
with me, but well, probably no one else thinks that

(02:58):
they can, you know, or I'm drinking at work. Yeah,
I was gonna say, or people think that it will
reflect poorly on them if they're like no, I mean
and this is like, what time is it for? Fifteen
perfect fourteen five minutes. We'll smoke some weed and then
I'll be great here cheers, Yeah, slancha, what do you say? Slantsha?

(03:22):
What's that? Gailic? Are you Irish? Yeah, well that's a
good way to start talking about your background, right, what's
your background? Uh? Are we are? We're going down? Yeah,
we're going I'll find a good interesting you can just
start there. Um, let's start with slantcha. Uh. Let's see.

(03:42):
My background is I was born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri. Uh,
suburban you know, like deep suburbs of St. Louis, so like,
you know, half an hour outside of the city. Even
though I went to went to high school in the city.
By I'm the youngest youngest of six um four brothers

(04:04):
one sister. There's less than eight years that separates the
six of us, so we're like bam bam bam in
order of age. Is that fun? Growing up like that? Well? Crazy?
I don't know what to compare it to, right, So
but I had fun. I mean it's good. There's a

(04:24):
lot of things, you know, it's like anything else, like
like every every every part of it reflects on the
person that I am today. You know. Um, I grew
up very much being sort of sheltered and and babied
in a way. I also had a lot of health
problems as a kid, Like I had a lot of
surgeries when I was super little. Um, what kind of

(04:48):
stuff or do you want to talk about it? No
I can. I'll say I don't want to talk about
that if there's anything but otherwise go for it. Um.
I had just like like just I was the runt
of the litter basically, so I had like intestinal problems
that needed to be corrected. And then mostly I was
born with a pectus, which is like a caved in

(05:11):
chest um and so I had to have major reconstructive
chess surgery when I was UM when I was about
four years old. Do you remember that, Um, I do.
I remember enough that I remember when I was in
recovery from it for for you know, many months, I

(05:31):
had to have a keyboard strapped to my back, which
is it was just like a big white t and
so it was like and I was wrapped in it
to sort of keep my chests from collapsing on itself. Man,
that's harsh. It was harsh. But you know what, I
was such a weird little kid that, like, I dug it.
I thought anything to make me unique was was cool.

(05:55):
So it was like, oh I was you know that
that made me different than I was in a got
me attention. And I learned later that, like, you know,
I craved this. I craved attention, which I got. It's
not like I wasn't getting any and I still craved it.
But like I loved getting attention, and I loved being
the you know, the center of the room. I loved

(06:17):
like telling jokes, um and doing little performances and things
like that. And you know, I learned later that that's
just sort of part of it's part of the fabric
of who I am, you know, And it's like it's
still I still feel it when I get I mean Obviously,
I'm still a performer, and I like performing in different

(06:38):
ways now than I did when I was younger. But
I still when I get on stage in front of
tons of people and I'm and I'm speaking, whether it's
just as myself or playing a character, no matter what
it is, there's like this otherworldly rush that I get
when we're doing really nothing else, you know, the idea. Yeah, Um,

(07:01):
I don't know how we got from the tea board
to that, but I guess. Uh. But yeah, was anyone
else in your family? Uh? I mean, obviously your brother
James is a writer and director. Anyone else in the
film industry. We're all on the film industry. So my sister, um,
well in the entertainment industry. So so's It's just a
really weird thing. And and it's you know, Um, I

(07:24):
don't know how we all sort of went that direction.
I have some guesses, but um, you know, my dad
comes from this huge family. Um, he's one of nine.
He's Irish Catholic. Uh. They're all you know, lawyers and
some doctors and people you know in the financial industry,
and they're all this very sort of like old white

(07:44):
money people. Um, and my me and my five siblings
all were way into movies and television and pop culture,
and we shared that with each other. We talked about
it all the time, and and we all ended up
coming from sort of different angles. It's not like any
one of us followed any of the others. But now

(08:07):
James is obviously, you know, super successful. But my brother
Brian is also a successful screenwriter. He's got this movie. Um.
He and his writing partner like created a show for
him TV and um wrote Journey to the Center of
the Earth too, And they have a movie coming out
for Sony UM. I think early next year. I don't
know what the release state is, but a this horror

(08:29):
movie coming out, which is really cool. UM. My brother
Matt has been a writer for real Time with Bill
Maher for over a decade. Yeah, and he really likes it.
He's kind of a he was sort of the political
animal in the family. UM, you know, most likely to
be a congress person probably, but maybe him and my sister.

(08:54):
But but still he channeled that into entertainment, you know. UM,
so yeah, he writes. Uh, he's a writer. My brother
Patrick is um is a business guy, but he's done
it um in the film industry. He used to be uh,
he used to work for artists and entertainment. Um, he

(09:15):
was really in um, involved in distribution and things like that.
And now he works for a he works for a
company that does like acquisitions and UM. I've tried to
put him down on exactly what he does and I
can't quite figure it out. I hope it's legal. And yeah,
so that's the five of us. And my sister is
an attorney. She's um, she's an employment attorney who um,

(09:41):
who specializes in gender quality cases, which I think is
so Badassah, she's she's tough as now it's my sister.
She's like, yeah, where does She's kind of my hero.
She's um, she's third out of six. Okay, And who's
the oldest James? Now did he sort of? It's so

(10:01):
remarkable that everyone from suburban St. Louis ended up going
in the entertainment industry to some degree. I know, we
all went. You know, I got my my one brother
who's in who's on the business side of things, lives
in New York. Let the rest of us all live
in Los Angeles, you know, I mean I split my
time between here in Atlanta and Los Angeles. But yeah,
but I still you know, we've lived in l at

(10:22):
really right, Yeah, that's really cool man. I went to St.
Louis for the first time last year. We did a
live show with my other podcast there Stuff you should Know,
and it was it was cool town. I liked it. Yeah,
good people, like legit city, but like being from the South,
I identified with just like good, nice folks. It's changed

(10:43):
a lot. I don't go back there as much anymore.
Um um, I try. I've been going back a little
more often to see my my folks who still live
in the same house you know that we grew up.
Um but um but yeah, it's I moved out at
eighteen and never went act. I went to Chicago for school,
and I never really called St. Louis home again, and

(11:05):
so I still feel a little bit disconnected to it
other than like a few things, you know, other than
the Cardinals and and my my folks and umani. I'm
a sports fan in general, and actually, which it's kind
of a lot of people are surprised to hear that
you know me well, They're like, you don't really Well,
I certainly was never played was good at playing sports,

(11:27):
you know, and um but yeah, I like sports and
uh and yeah, so St. Louis. But it's changed a lot.
That city, I think is finally from what I understand,
I think it's finding its sea legs a little bit
because for years it it was just declining in population,
Like from nineteen it was one of the biggest cities
in the country and fifty and then it's like it got,

(11:50):
you know, farther and farther down the list, and I
think now it's really coming into its own as a
smaller city. Yeah. What what was the major industry there? Um?
I guess yeah, or is it beer? It's uh McDonald
douglas um is there and um and mont Santo was

(12:12):
there and uh she Arena is there and Budweiser. So
like I would say those are probably t w A
used to be there before they before they left town. Um,
but those were the major industries that I can recall,
probably forgetting something. But yeah, mont Santo and McDonald douglass
and Budweiser. Now did you did you act growing up?

(12:35):
Was it something that all of you guys were sort
of involved in early on? Yes? Um, and I was.
I think, I mean all my siblings were into acting
and being on stage. They all did plays, at least
they started doing plays in a high school. Um. I
feel like I was sort of the most gung ho
about it. Um. I don't know if they would say

(12:57):
that same thing, but I think I'm the only one who,
Like when you asked me when I was six years
old what I wanted to be when I grew up,
I said an actor. Um. But um, but I used
to go see all their all their plays in high school,
and like, I just I would want to be up
there so bad. I would want to like I would
want to play every role that I you know. Okay, yeah,

(13:20):
but a family, a large family consuming pop culture and movies.
I mean, did you guys just sit around and watch
movies and TV as a group of siblings constantly? Yeah?
The TV was always on. And then once, like you know,
VCRs came around. Um, you know, we were we were

(13:42):
like the first kids in our school that I knew
who had got a VCR probably, you know, And I
remember that. I remember that. Um, there was a place
called Uncle Toot's that man, I love those old mom
that that rented. It was the first place in town
and they rented it deos And you know, I don't

(14:02):
even know what year that would have been, early eighties probably,
um and uh. And the first movies we've rented Steve
McQueen The Hunter, it's one of them, and use, Yeah,
that was one of his last movies. And I was
probably a little too young to watch that one. I
don't think I watched all of it. Um, but yeah,

(14:25):
And they were the Reynolds were ten dollars apiece, which
was incredibly expensive. They ended up, you know, within five
six years they were two dollars of block. They were
four for ten. Yeah. Um, but yeah, once we had
a VCR, you know, we'd in my film there'd be
two or three movies a night that were rented, and

(14:45):
they would just always be there, you know. And and
I feel like growing up, I almost always had the
option of watching a movie with one of my siblings
if I wanted to do that that night, you know,
like someone would go down to the bay spent watching
a movie. Um and uh. Yeah, And so they were
all I was always a little younger when they were

(15:06):
teenagers or whatever. But sometimes they'd go out, sometimes they'd
stay in and watch a movie, and I could always
watch that movie with them, and I often did. Yeah,
that's great. I'm the youngest only of three, but I
definitely definitely get that. Yeah, the thing and being the
youngest when the older siblings shine a light on you
and stuff, that's kind of fun. That's the greatest thing

(15:26):
about being the youngest is you get to absorb all
of the all of the things that they you know,
like like I don't know, just pulling an example off
the top of my head, like even though I was
born in four like I don't know when Frampton Comes
Alive came out, but it's part of the fabric of
my childhood just because I would hear my older siblings

(15:50):
and their friends talk about it are things that were
you know, from the should have been before my time.
I feel like they weren't. And then I got that
all throughout, you know, I think I've talked to a
lot of people in here, and that's a common thread.
Is like that it's usually a sibling that just that
culture feed and obviously as a younger or if it's

(16:12):
an you know, a neighbor or anything anyone, it's always
someone a few years older though that you're like, oh,
well they think that's cool, then I'm working all over it. Absolutely,
And and it was everything. You know, music, Yeah, music,
big time, movies, big time what kind of music? Um man,
you know, my brothers, Jimmy and Patrick were really uh

(16:34):
I called James Jimmy still, Um, we're really um. They
were kind of like old school they were they were
punks and then mods, you know, um, really into like
their tastes were just different enough that that they covered
all of all of that particular part of it. And

(16:56):
Jimmy was always they were both always someone to music
that they always liked a little love everything. So it's
like Jimmy also, you know, they loved both loved Queen
and loved um and and Jimmy loved like Alice Cooper
and some bands like that. But then they were also
just super into the clash and the sex pistols and um.
And I shared a room with my brother Patrick, and

(17:17):
he would listen to an album as he went to
sleep every single night. And I didn't, I mean the
idea that I had a choice whether I listened to
an album. There's not even it was not even in
my registers. Um. But yeah, and so those that was
a lot of Elvis Costello, Split Ends, the Boomtown Rats, um,

(17:40):
you know, uh, gosh, there's so much, you know, I could,
I could go on and on, um, but yeah, but
then you know, but then that continued, and then then
I also got into when when my brother Brian got
really into like, uh, Prince and um, you know, the
Pixies a little little later, and that's kind of the

(18:01):
great thing of Rex and yeah that like, I'm I'm
a couple of years older than you. But back then
you could listen to Prince and Michael Jackson and also
the Clash and whatever else. I mean, it was sort
of that American Top forty effect where it was all
in there, you know, and every Sunday afternoon, Casey Kyson

(18:21):
was kind of yeah, preaching the gospel, you know. And
then when I was fourteen, straight out of Compton came
out and so I was like right in the pocket
of of the cool kids in my school got into
Wrap and then I started listening Ice Cube and I'm
still now I became this insane rap aficionado, and now
I'm like early nineties hip hop all the way through.

(18:44):
But like that's what nowadays. I listened to, like nineties
hip hop and seventies like country folks, singer songwriter music
more than anything. Is Joni Mitchell lit the Far Side? Yeah, totally, yeah,
totally right, like, um, that was when I listened to
hip hop. I was. I was talking to someone about
it the other day. I haven't a lot since, but

(19:06):
like eight seven through mid nineties, like eight seven through
ninety seven, Tribe and Far Side, and I've been talking
for years. You'd probably be the guy that talked to
about this, but I've been talking for years about doing
a podcast about um about hip hop music, particularly focused
on on that right because I go super super deep,

(19:29):
like I'm a I'm a maniac for it UM. And
I feel like I meet people who say that all
the time that loved the hip hop from back then,
UM and aren't his into it anymore. And I want
to preach to them a little bit that even from then,
there's so much that I guarantee they haven't heard that
what they would love, like you know, if they went

(19:50):
back and hold hurt some of those some of the
old records from like particularly like you know, we were
into it. Yeah, it was. It was a pretty like
inspiring time, uh to be listening to music. I think, yeah,
and and I want to it was the stranger things
guys and Gelman was saying that he's still really into it,
and he's like, the new stuff is different, but he

(20:11):
loves it. And I'm not one of these people. It's
like it's no good anymore. I just sort of it
just sort of fell away from me a bit. There's
always great new music, you know what. I'm much less
down on hip hop nowadays, and I am on rock music.
Like there's hip hop today that I'm like, if you
know where to look for it. There's still great hip
hop music here. Made it's not on the radio, but
there's still great whereas rock music. That's why I don't

(20:33):
listen to modern rock music anymore. I like, I'm like,
I don't even know what that is exactly. Yeah, it's
like where it lives. Even when I would hear bands that, like,
you know, I guess this is now five or ten
years ago that I would have. I have friends that
were really into like I don't know, like Band of
Horses or or um you know, um Arcade Fire, like

(20:58):
these bands, which I could hear it and recognized that
it was good. But I'm like, I don't I can't
listen to this anymore. Yeah, I don't know what it
is it's like and it all it all feels derivative
to me in some sense, but it kind of is
actually uh And in fact, again with the Joe Kirey
was he's a musician and in a band and he
was talking about that how everything just sort of everyone's

(21:20):
just like, oh, they're doing sort of this their version
of this old classic group and maybe that's just the
way it goes though, like how much ground can you break? Yeah,
it was already broken? Um yeah I remember, like I'll
hear it, you know, like my friend was like, oh
this is so um um you know, Span two Yards

(21:43):
is so innovative, like they're so different and I heard it.
I'm like, this sounds exactly like this band from one
you know that I that I remember, like almost exactly
like it sounds. It's like the mix is a little different,
but other than that, the music is it's almost the
same as Anyway. I just saw them open for David

(22:04):
Byrne Juniards. They are a good band. I'm not saying
that like it was good, but I would I would
say the same thing is that, like yeah, there it's
good stuff though. Yeah, in case they're listening, Well, so
you mentioned college in Chicago. Was that Did you study
acting there or was it just regular old college totally?
I went to the Goodman's School of Drama um at

(22:26):
um it's a Paul University, and which was a full
on conservatory. Like I had, you know, I had very
minimal um credits of other kinds that I needed to take.
It was like boys in speech acting classes all the time.
It's like fully immersive. Yeah, and I was. I was

(22:49):
really geared to that towards that my whole you know,
like I knew when I went to high school. I
would I was pretty you know, I was a smart
kid and that, but I would slack off in grades
and I would tell my parents, I'm going I'm going
to go to an acting school so my grades don't
matter as much, and they would get so mad at me.
But I won those arguments in retrospect, but in your face. Yeah,

(23:13):
but um but yeah, it was always and I and
and uh and I remember my parents went with me
to the interview when I got into to De Paul
because it was I really just auditioned for like the
three or four best programs according to the books that
I read, you know, in the country, and that was it.
And this one was it was like most of them said,

(23:35):
like Juilliard Yale um to Paul Uh, which was used
to be the Goodman and then they had to change
the name. But um and um and and so I
I got into. That's the one I got into. And
I remember going to the interview with my folks and
then talking about how intense the program was and how

(23:58):
you you know, you'd be there or all day and
then you'd have rehearsals. In the first year, you're just
on crew for plays and you're basically they take up
your time from seven am to ten pm every single day,
and you got cut at the end of the if
they cut students at the end of each of the
first two years. Um. They don't do that anymore, but

(24:18):
they used to. And I remember parents think it's saying
to me that they expected me to like shy away
from it after I heard all that stuff, because I
think they they thought I was lazy. But I was like, no,
that's it, that's exactly what I want. I want to
be doing that all the time. Yeah. Um, and did
plays there, I guess I did tons of what I mean,

(24:40):
one after another. The first year is like crew and
then the second year, they're like workshop plays that you
do in a in a classroom and and just the
teachers see them and great them and stuff like that.
And then the third and fourth theory, you're like in
the casting pool where you could get cast in what
was the main stage play, which is a massive theater.
It's like a you know, sold several thousand people in

(25:02):
downtown Chicago. So like it was there was a lot
of opportunity to act in front of you know, like
I did a kids show in my in my third
year of school, and we would have shows Tuesday's, Thursdays
and Saturday, like Tuesday and Thursday morning and then Saturday

(25:23):
matinee um for you know, we ran for ten weeks
or something like that and planning in front of two
thousand people every single performance. So's yeah, in in college
and so you were like years old doing that. Yeah, man, yeah,
I would have been. I would have been almost twenty,
I guess. Well, and that's such great training to I mean,

(25:45):
that's one thing to learn it in the classroom, which
is super valuable, but to you out on stage in
front of like a legit crowd. Yeah yeah, I mean,
now most of those were kids because it was the
kids play. But even when you did the other ones
like they would only they wouldn't run for weeks and weeks,
but you know, you do, you'd run two weekends or whatever,
and and you'd never fill the balcony, but you'd still

(26:07):
be in front of hundreds and hundreds of people for
you know, in in in a theater the size of
the biggest you know, I mean as big as in
his Broadway houses, you know, like this this massive theater
at the Moro Ruskin Theater. Um, So that was really cool. Uh,
it was super competitive. People got cut after each of

(26:28):
the first two years, which was really intense. Um was
it good competitive or sort of like healthy competitive? It's
hard for me to know these days when I look
back on those days. You know, Brooker went to the
same school, by the way, Michael Rooker my friend and
and um, you know I've worked with so much and

(26:51):
over the years, and he went to the same school,
and he thought that He's always said he thinks that
the cutting process was great. He's like, that's exactly how
hard hardcore it is. Once you nobody babies you. Once
you graduate. It's good training, you know, the world training,
the acting world. Yeah, it's like it's brutal. Being an
actor is can be just vicious. You know that can

(27:13):
be it. It remains vicious even after you've made it.
But um, but and he loved it. I don't know.
I there's parts of me I don't know. I don't
know how I would do it differently if I ran
the school. I know they don't cut people anymore. I
know that I was very nearly cut, which a teacher, UM,

(27:35):
a teacher uh confirmed to me later afterwards that I
was on the bubble and I've got warned, you'd get
a warning and um, and I was. I was on
the bubble. I was warned and I had to do
a final scene um in front of the faculty, which
we all did, and the faculty really thought I was

(27:57):
really good in that scene and they decided to get
to keep me. Do you remember what seen? Yeah? Yeah, definitely.
It was from UM what is still a play that
I still want to do right now, um, which is
probably just probably probably my second favorite play ever. UM.
And it's The Birthday Party by Harold Pinter and the

(28:19):
character of Stanley, who's like a It's a great role
for me. He's like because he's I don't know it's
insane in true. I mean, I don't know why I
say it's a perfect role for me, but it feels
like it is when I read it. Um and I
did that. Um. I did that scene with my friend
Jennifer Olison, who's still a like magnificent theater teacher and

(28:41):
does like this great avant garde plays in Chicago. Um
and uh and I I guess it was good enough
to save me. But I think back on that, and
I'm like, if if I had had a really bad
day that day, or if I had spit the bit somehow,
you know, and had a bad scene and then I

(29:01):
got cut, I don't know how much that would have devastated,
certainly my career, probably my lot, my whole life would
have Yeah, I think it really, I think it would
have had an absolutely traumatic effect on my effect on
my entire life, Like you would have quit? Do you think?
I honestly do not know what I would have done.

(29:23):
I think I think, Um, I think I probably was
fragile enough that I would have quit, And I don't
know what I would have done. I don't know what
I was, And I still have big enough ego that
at that time I didn't think I was that close.
It wasn't. I was like, how was I really? And
then I asked his teacher after after I graduated. I

(29:44):
was like, was I really close? And he went, oh, yeah,
oh yeah, you were really close? And I was like, yeah,
you know, it freaked me out and and so now yeah,
So now I look back and I'm like, was that
a good Is that a positive way to treat a
human being who's twenty two years old? I don't know. Not. No,

(30:04):
I wouldn't have been It was after my second year,
so I would have been nineteen or twenty, just turned twenty.
And is that the right way to treat a twenty
year old who is trying with everything in their power
to learn a craft. Probably not, I think, is my
answer to the question. I might agree with you there,

(30:25):
but I don't know. It's complicated, you know. And then
I look back. I got a buddy now who I
went to school with, who who is a great actor,
who who works a lot less than he should, and
we talked sometimes about I'm like, yeah, I was a
much better actor when I graduated from this conservatory, but

(30:45):
I also aged from eighteen to twenty two? How much
better would I have been if I just started moved
to l A and got in a class and started
trying to get auditions, Like, I don't know. I don't
have no idea how much it helped me in the
long run, right, maybe I am. But but was it good?
I don't know. Did you have fun? Um? Yes I did.

(31:05):
And definitely the best thing about it was I met
these certain people that I that are still like a
core part of my um not not just my best friends,
but of my like collaborative community. You know, my friend
Valentine Mealy who's done who's done some movies, from my
brother who who's a great actor. And my friend John

(31:27):
Cabrera who's who's now almost entirely like writing and creating.
And and Judy Greer, my old friend who's doing great.
Yeah she's an old friend. Yeah, oh yeah, she was
a year behind school. She she's amazing and she's um,
you know, she's uh, she's as good of a friend
as I will ever have in man, that's good to

(31:49):
know that she performed herd well, I was the official.
That's great, she's great, she's amazing. I could I could
go on and on about what an amazing person she
is um. But yeah, and so there's all these these
friends that I've this like sort of main little group
of friends that I made that that that was definitely
that that was probably worth it, you know for sure,

(32:12):
you know, and maybe that's why you're there. Really it's
just for that my college experience, I could probably say
the same thing at the end of the day. I
don't know. Yeah, so did you go to l A
kind of right after that? Or I spent one year
in Chicago for some reason. And I look back at
this now it's being so fuck up, but like, but
like they really encouraged you at my school to just

(32:35):
like have this sort of to stick your nose up
at at not just l A, but acting on camera
in general. And it was like theater actors are real
actors till the TV actors are like slumming it or
like yeah, and you hear so many people like I
want to do you know, like my goal would be

(32:55):
to do just enough, just enough, like work on TV
in film to support my theater habit. Like like you
hear people say that, and there are people that do that,
but I'm like, I'm like, it's your there's it's it's
mostly full of ship. Some of those people. A lot
of those people are great actors, and like, are are really,
but I don't know. For me. What happened was okay.

(33:18):
So so I graduated and we were like, we're going
to start a theater company plays and do these work plays.
I was directing a lot of theater at that time. Um.
But by the time I graduated, I've really gotten into
directing theater. And um, I love it. It's something I've
done in years and I miss it. Um and um

(33:38):
and and we uh and so we started this theater company.
We did open this coffee shop that had a theater
in the basement and did that like a year and
we were pretty good, okay at running a theater company
and not good at running a coffee shop. Was part
of it, Yeah, it was like part of the whole thing.

(33:59):
And my friends and I started this thing and it's
and and so we did shows downstairs and um, you know,
I did some work, Like I directed a couple of
plays that I was really super super proud of. Um
another pinter play the Hothouse that I directed. I'm like,
this is awesome. And like I I we were all

(34:21):
too young, they were all I was directing, but the
actors were all too young to play the roles. But still, um,
I was like, I, I'm really proud of this work.
And yet and we ran for six weeks or whatever.
But when you add it all together, what it maybe three?
You know, like, people see this play. And then I
did a commercial for the Illinois Lottery and I got

(34:46):
paid and tons of people I knew saw it. He
said that they saw it, and and you know, it
was all over and people saw my face and then
that was and and I was like, they it's gotta
be a way to marry these two things where I
do something that I love and then I'm proud of
But and then I did this movie, this um not

(35:09):
good independent movie called Stricken. But that was my first
taste of like like it was on location. We went
up to Kenosha, Wisconsin. Um, Jamie Kennedy, this actor from
who was who, who used to be my very good
friend back in the day, and I haven't seen him
in many years, but um, but he he was in

(35:30):
that movie. And so he came from l A. A
couple of the actors came from l A and U
and I would talk to them about what it was
like to act out there. And I remember very vividly
that UM that Jamie and I had had auditioned for
this play at a really reputable theater in Chicago, UM,
a Court Theater that did like like it was really

(35:52):
great UM theater that did a lot of Shakespeare, UM
and and classic plays. And I had auditioned and I
was waiting to hear from from them. And then and
while I was doing this movie, and I remember going
out one night with Jamie and a couple other people.
Judy was in that movie too, by the way, Judy
Herris in that movie too, UM and uh and coming

(36:14):
back to the hotel and Jamie having a Manila envelope
there waiting for him with script just delivered to him
to read and see if he was interested in And
I was like, I want that. I want to be.
I want to be. I want somebody delivering a script
to me to see if I can. And I'm like,

(36:37):
that's what I want. And about a week or so later,
I got the part at the Court Theater and it
was like, either used to be your first paid um,
this will be your first paid acting job. They make
me equity and pay me like three hundred bucks a
week or something, which was really good for theater actor
um and um. But it was Chicago winter. It was

(36:59):
going to run. Um. I've been thinking about moving to
l A. And I was gonna have to stay then
instead of moving in October, I was going to stay
from like stay through February, March or whatever for the
Chicago thing. And I'm like, if I keep, if I
put it off, I may just keep putting it off
and putting it putting it off. And so I moved
to l A with nothing as a kid. Really yeah,

(37:21):
looking back community in early twenties. But I had a
lot of confidence at that time because in the in
that year that I would that in between graduating and
when I left, I started auditioning. First, like, in addition
to the movie, I also did a I did like set.
I booked like seven commercials in four months or something. Um.

(37:42):
And so I got this idea that, oh, I'm I
can get hired, like I can if I can get auditions,
I can get jobs. I'm starting to learn how to
get jobs. And so I had a lot of confidence
that like if I can just get if I can
just get an agent, I'll be able to book work.
How tough is it to learn how to audition, because

(38:04):
that's a it's a brutal I used to when I
was a p a years ago in l A. I
used to occasionally just run camera on casting sessions and
I remember just sitting there thinking, my god, what a
what a brutal process. Um, well, I can tell you this.
They did a very poor job of teaching us how
to do it at the at the theater school that
I went to, right, Like, it was great at auditioning

(38:26):
for theater and then you hardly ever do that right
beside that. Um and then yeah, like we had one
on camera class in our fourth year and it was
not great. And um, And I think that it is.
I think it's something that every actor really needs to
think about a lot um and and some people have

(38:51):
a knack for it. I'm very very lucky in that
I was pretty good at it, you know, like I was,
I knew, I knew for sure actors that I thought were,
you know, no worse than I was, so I thought
were terrific actors. It did not have the audition skills
that I had. It's almost like being like I'm smart,
but I'm not a good test taker. Yeah, totally Yeah,

(39:13):
there's a certain amount of folks, you know, like there's
a certain amount of focus you need to be able
to um to to audition well, and and confidence for sure,
you know, you can't ever seem like you need the
job or dead in the water. But also imagine you
also have to walk a line between being too cocky

(39:34):
or yeah, totally totally. I don't I don't even to
be honest, I know I'm okay. I still don't know
if I'm not good at it, you know, Like I
know that I was. I was good then because I
was getting booked a lot, and now it's like now,
even even though I don't even have to do it
all the time now, um, there are times when I

(39:55):
know that I like everything. There's so many self tapes now.
There's been a couple of times when I auditioned for
things where I make my own tape and I love it.
I think it's great, you know, and I sent it
in and like I don't get it or I don't
it doesn't move any further, and I'm like, I don't
know what I'm doing wrong there. But it's certainly but
also with a little bit of age and experience, you

(40:16):
also know that there are a million tots that have
nothing to do with how good you are. Totally. It's
and I've been on the other side now too. I've been.
I've been I've auditioned people for stuff. You know, I've
been a producer on a project where I see things
or you know where I've um you know, a friend

(40:36):
will be casting something and and show me three or
four audition tapes and say who do you like the
past on wine? Like, and so I know what goes
into that, and I know I know how really how
how truly? Um not random, but like it's like sometimes
you get somebody's like I just really see this character

(40:57):
having dark hair or whatever, you know, like sometimes that
see it, or sometimes like they look a little too
much like whatever. Yeah, I pictured him being you know,
ten years older. And there's there's there's always so many things. Um.
That said, I also do think that I'm I do
still think. I mean, this is easier easier for a

(41:20):
working actor to say that a non working one. But
I do still think that if you're good enough, you'll
make it. You know, it's gonna be a little heartening
and driven. You know, you have to be you have
to have a little bit. You have to have enough drive.
But I do feel like it may take you a
longer time, you know. Um but I feel like if

(41:40):
you're good at it, you'll make it. I think that's
especially true of writers and directors. Um but Tom, But
I still I feel like I feel like that's true,
and I still feel like I love I mean, just
about my favorite thing is that I feel like my
work is is getting better. You know, like trying to

(42:03):
be a better actor now than I ever was is
like not only something I'm really driven by, but it's
also one of the great joys of my life. Yeah,
that's that makes me want to get out of bed
in the morning, like play a role and be better
than I've ever been at anything else. Like you know, yeah,
I imagine even even Meryl Street is still learning. You know.

(42:26):
It's not a it's not a job where you shut
it down and you're like, all right, well, I kind
of know all the tricks. Yeah, I'm sure you developed
a bag of tricks. But it's kind of one of
the cool things. It's like a living, breathing thing. Yeah,
it's been one of the weird things about it about
now I'm seguating for you but one of the weird
things I'll work we're about, like working on the Avengers

(42:48):
movies has been has been working with so many just
extraordinarily famous and successful actors, you know, on a daily basis,
and and seeing what they're relationship to their job is.
You know, um and for the most party, it's really good.
But you also see people who like, like you know, Hollywood,
get you down and you get burnt out, and being

(43:10):
famous makes your job harder. I mean, I I hate
I know, it's like boo who, I don't want to
you know. It's like like people who are famous have
it easier in so many ways. But as an actor,
when you're famous, people start treating you differently, and part
of your craft has to be understanding how people behave
and so just those there's a little bit of a

(43:31):
disconnect between those two things. So you get more and
more famous, it gets harder and harder in some ways
to like sort of understand how people behave, you know,
But I don't know, I think some I think they
get burnt out on it. That's why I kind of
like try to I don't know, I try to be
able to to have my career and then also step
out of it and have a bird's eye view of

(43:52):
it and make sure I can watch it. Yeah, man,
Guardians was such a cool movie, Like, and I'm into
all the Marble stuff, but when that came out, I
wasn't one who ever read like the comics, so I
didn't know anything about that that series or whatever those characters.
And I was just blown away. Man, it was so
original and fun, and it was a world that I

(44:15):
had never seen, and the spaceships looked different than I
had ever seen. Like everything about it was just so
original and fun. And and you and you had a
bigger part in the second one even. Yeah, I I'm
so I'm so proud of those movies and and proud
of my brother. You know, for sure, they're really um

(44:37):
I mean, there's so many different creative minds that go
into a project like that, but you also imagine that
undertaking you need a captain steering the whole ship, you know,
pointing it in the right direction. And and like those
movies are so much my brother. They're just like so

(44:58):
much like him, you know what I mean, Like and
and he and he's a maniac, he's the most he
prepares to a degree that is just insane. So he
kind of has a lot of the movie in his
head already when when when we even start filming, and
we'll get to see, you know, full animal atics of

(45:20):
every scene. And he has um like all of the
songs on the soundtrack, are they get the rights before
they start shooting, so that we can actually often like
play them on set to the scenes that they're playing under.
And and some of the score is also Tyler Bates
does some some of the score for some key scenes,

(45:41):
particularly like fight scenes and things like that, so that
they can be choreographed to like sort of a rough
version of the score and things like that. And and
and my brother is like way into all that stuff.
And he has his hands in everything. I mean every
there's no there's no detail in that movie. And either

(46:04):
of those movies that weren't completely his idea or at
least okay by him. There's nothing that like, there's nothing
that he's like, you know, like it's everything is is
he's he manages the ship. And I think there is
an incorrect notion out there in some people's minds that
for a movie that size and all movies take a

(46:24):
great number of people, don't get me wrong, as you know,
to make it successful on screen, but that somehow a
director is not as involved as in something like that,
as like a smaller movie and which which James, I mean,
he started his career with those small budget trauma movies
and stuff like that. But that's just bullshit, right, totally totally.

(46:45):
I mean, I might say that if you get to
a certain level and you're directing the movie that big,
you might have more of an opportunity to have Yes,
you might have more of an opportunity to coast than
you would if you were making a small budget movie
where you gotta get your hands dirty or the movie

(47:06):
is not gonna get made. But I don't think it's
any like the movie's gonna suck if you do the
movies you know. So I don't think it's any I
don't think it's any less important to be sort of
totally on top of everything you're doing in a big
budget movie. You know that the job is a little different,
but it's not a lot different. Yeah, that's cool. Um,

(47:30):
where do you stand for Guardians three? Can you talk
about that or Um? Yeah, I I don't know exactly, so,
I mean, I'm um, I was in the sort of
rare position where I I had not quite finished my deal,
so I was still sort of negotiating for the movie
when um, you know, all the nonsense that happened with

(47:52):
my brother and he got in trouble for old tweets,
which was a very strange experience. But me, UM, I
was just sort of put out in limbo. And I
think that, Um, I do believe that the movie is
going to get made, but I don't know when. UM.
I do believe I will be involved, but I don't

(48:15):
know for sure. And um, and I've I've been in
the business now long enough to know that until something
is actually happening, it's not happening. So I'm just living
my life in my career as though it's never gonna
get made. Um. But I I hope I get uh
you know, I hope I get news to the contrary. Um.

(48:37):
It was such a fun group. I can't even remember
the guys, the group of dudes, um, well in your
the gang of sort of space rednecks. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was just such a like that. You're also funny. UM.
I know Steve a g a little bit, so he

(48:58):
such a good time. He's become a good and yeah, yeah,
and um yeah and Rooker and and and all those guys.
My old friend Evan Jones is in it. And did
you guys like kind of form a I know sometimes
on movies like that, like you're sort of form the unit. Yeah,
and a lot of knew each other already. Um, but yeah,

(49:18):
I think the the Ravagers feel a special kinship with
one another. And Chris Sullivan, who's like, whose career is
blowing up now? Who? Uh he's on This is Us
and he's in Stranger Things and he used to be
on the Neck and he's an amazing actor, like one
of the best I've ever known, probably and he played
Taser Face and uh and getting to know him and

(49:41):
have him be a piece such a great member of
an ensemble. Um, yeah, it was, it was. It was awesome.
And that's the other Like, that's the other thing I
will say about my brother is that he does a
great job of doing his homework about people. In addition
to like find good actors, he finds good people. Because

(50:03):
you're going to be, you know, making a movie together
for six months or more. You don't want to work
with assholes. And yeah, you don't want to work with assholes.
Life is too short for like deva nonsense and things
like that. So um, and it's it's why, you know,
like I love I love a lot of the people
I've worked with over the years for different reasons, but

(50:23):
like Chris Pratt and Zoe and Dave Battista and Palm
and Karen and Michael Rooker you know, um and several more,
but that sort of main group of the Guardians family,
they really do feel like family to me. I love
I love them, and uh that's great, and I would
I would gladly go to battle with any one of them. Yeah.

(50:46):
Pratt is so funny in those movies. He's so great
and he's funny anyway. I was a big fan for
He's a great dude years ago. But yeah, yeah, I mean,
he's just so funny. And and then in the Avengers movie,
some of the best stuff was was he and Robert
Downey Jr. Going at it. I know, I love that,
I love it. And Bautista, who knew, he knew that
that guy was that fucking funny. Oh man. It was

(51:08):
one of the great joys for me. Was like, because
I was there when Dave had his screen tests, because
I you know, worked with my brother for so long.
He wanted my help with various things along the way
and um and so for a lot of the actors
screen tests, I I would read quill with the tracks
is or um uh brand rocket with the quills, And

(51:31):
so I got to see a lot of people um
audition uh and and Bautissa came in for a work
session before before he had his screen test, and he
was like so nervous, um and so quiet, and I'm like,
oh man, this poor guy's just gonna tank, you know,

(51:53):
like he can't. Like he's obviously this pressure is going
to be too much for him. And he's so good.
He was so good. Yeah, and he's he stole that
first movie in a lot of ways. He's so good.
He's like great and he and um, and he loves it.
It's like it's like a perfect microcosm of the whole movie.
You know, he loves He loved the material so so much,

(52:16):
you know, and like I think he was so happy
to be able to play that role every day and
like and he was so grateful and so great to
have around and and what a champion he is. He'd
have like four or five hours of makeup a lot
of which he needs to keep his arms outstretched the
whole time, you know, or stand during tons of it,

(52:39):
and like, what what a champion. Yeah, I just thought
it was so sweet. How how much he got your
brother's back. Yes, that was great. It was cool to see. Yeah,
I thought it was amazing and I was not at
all surprised, to be honest. Um, I hope that Dave
it takes that as a compliment that like, like I've
always known that Davis a stand up a guy as

(53:02):
you'd ever wanted me, Like, I could rely on that guy.
He's just trustworthy as anybody other known. That's great. Yeah,
before we move on to our film, Uh, I want
to talk about the Gilmore girls for a minute, because
uh everywhere a fan. Well I met I met you

(53:25):
a few weeks ago to wedding in Santa Barbara of
a mutual friend. Um, and you were seated at my table, yes,
at at her dinner table. Yeah. Yeah. And my wife, Emily,
who you met, was, She's like, who is that guy?
It's like that's Sean Gunn. She's like, yeah, but who
is he? It's like he was in he was in Guardians.
She didn't see that, and uh, and then it hit me.

(53:46):
I was like, oh, I was like he was in
Gilmore Girls. And she was like, oh, of course because
she was a big fan and she just just couldn't
quite place it. Yeah, that's you were such a fresh
face young and and Gilmore Girls looking back, Yes, and
that was an interesting like that was an interesting ride,
Gummar Girls and still the first big one. Yeah, you know,

(54:07):
I was. I was. I started booking pretty pretty well.
Like when I finally started getting jobs in l A.
I was doing like lots of like a little guest
star and co star roles, and I uh, you know,
recurred on a couple of shows just like got a
second episode or whatever and working actor. Man, that's and

(54:27):
I yeah, totally the way to do it. I did that. Um,
I did gil I auditioned for Gulmar Girls, which was
a co star role. Um My Asian at the time
recommended that I passed on the audition because they thought
that I was better, that I should start just focusing
on on guest stars and not take co stars where

(54:47):
if you're in the world, you know, guest stars like
a notch above you know, um, and I thought that
I shouldn't. It was it was an audition for the
DSL installer, which ages me and the show. But um,
but it was that was a character's name and it
was one scene and I was like, and I said
to my man, My manager was like, uh, you know,

(55:09):
your agent doesn't want you to want you to pass
on this, but I know, um, you know Mark Casey,
one of is one of the casting directors from Chicago,
and she's really cool and it'd be good to get
in front of her and read something and um, and
I think, you know, I don't see any harm if
you if you're interested, And I was like, um, well,

(55:30):
i'll read the scene and if it's you know, it's
interesting at all audition. Um, you know, I just didn't
want to be like, you know, you know, may I
offer you a chicken leg? And uh and so I
uh so I read it and it was like it
was like just a little page long page page and
a half long scene, but it was really funny and
I understood that. I understood the tone of it and everything,

(55:54):
and um and I went in and I got that job,
went on my you know, I had my day of
work and it was fun and whatever. And I was like, Okay,
well that's of whatever, another one, and then and then
a couple of weeks later, my manager called me and said, hey,
your booked for another episode of Gimmere Girls. I'm like,
what really, no kidding there? So they're bringing how They're

(56:15):
they're bringing back the one that was the first episode.
It was it was episode two of season one that
I was on. So they had shot the pilot in
Toronto and then this was their first episode, um in
shooting in in Um at Warner Brothers on the Warner
Brothers lot um and so I was like, oh, wow,

(56:35):
they're bringing back this character. And then I read the
role and it was a different It was like a
guy delivering swans to a wedding. And I learned later
that what happened was they had seen a couple of
actors to audition for this swan delivery guy, and Amy Palladino,
the creator of the show, um said to the casting directors, now,

(56:57):
I want a guy like that guy who played the
DSL in Stllar and and Jamie Rodowski, who's who was
the other casting director, bless her heart, said to Amy,
why don't you just hire that guy again, you know,
and like and have it be just like a thing
where it's weird, and I guess Amy thought about it.
She's like she thought it was kind of a funny idea,
and so they hired me again. And then it became

(57:19):
a running joke on the show that I would pop
up all over town like and and so I kept
getting it, kept asking me back, um, episode after episode two.
I end up doing eleven episodes that first season, and
I would just pop up wherever when they needed somebody,
and they then they gave my character a name and
they became sort of a town's person. But I thought

(57:41):
every episode I did would be my last, and then
many years were you on? That show? Ended up being seven? Seven?
So yeah, so then I did two years like that.
I did another seventeen episodes my second the second year,
and then they asked me to be a series regular
because I was I was, maybe you're gonna go do
it another show, and and so it was never something

(58:06):
that like I never got that moment where it was like, yes,
I got this amazing role, you know. It just always
was something that just sort of kind of continued, and
I always thought, well, this will go away at some point, right,
and not only did it, so then the craziest thing
about that story. So then not only did it that,
then against SuDS regular did the show five more seasons
as a regular. Then the show went away. It ended

(58:30):
in two thousand seven. Um, and it was it was
a modest hit for the CW, but it wasn't It
wasn't a massive, massive show. It was popular show, but
well that it was. It was. It was modestly popular.
And then about um, six or seven years later, UM,

(58:53):
it got on Netflix and it became massive, became Yes,
then it came people started binge watching it. It started.
And also when the DVD the DVD sales were great,
so like when it was when it first came out,
it was like an early binge watching show. And so
when the DVD sets, the DV sets sold way better

(59:16):
than tons of shows that that performed better at the
ratings when it when it was on originally, and then
it was on Netflix, and then it began and then
it was just became this massive, like almost this cultural phenomenon,
to the point that when that when uh, Netflix then
decided to bring it back and shoot more episodes, which
we did in two thousand and sixteen. Like I was

(59:40):
on the Tonight Show, I mean, it was amazing. It
was and it was mind blowing. It really was. It
was like, this is something I worked on a decade ago,
you know, and now it's more popular. I started getting
you know, like I got recognized here and there from
it back in two thousand and six, two thousand seven,
at the end of its roun I had, you know,

(01:00:01):
but then two thousand everywhere I went all the time
like thirty to four year old ladies. Yeah, yeah, and
still and then they got younger again, and then they
also win the revival and stuff younger like and like
tons of like I used to watch this as a kid,
and I watched it with my daughter. Hear that all
the time. That's that's awesome. Man. Yeah, I'm like, I'm lucky.

(01:00:28):
It was great material and it was great. It was
I I loved it. Going back to do it again
was amazing because it was fun in a way that
like originally I was like, oh, yeah, I'm doing this
kind of silly little show. But the writing was really
pretty good though. It was great, Like I've seeing enough
of them with Emily that to recognize like good snappy, yes,

(01:00:48):
kind of throwback snappy dialogue. Amy Faldinos is really a genius.
And her husband dan As is right there with her
and they they it's like I was saying with my brother,
Amy has her. He knows exactly what she wants. She
has her hands and everything, um and everything that's done.
And I didn't properly appreciate that, you know, when the

(01:01:10):
when I did my first episode, I was twenty six
and she's only a few years older than me. Um,
and I just thought of her as like my boss.
Looking back and thinking like like, this is a woman
in her like early thirties who's the showrunner of this
thing and is trying to battle with with a network
that wants to tell her what to do. And she's like, no,

(01:01:30):
I know what what to do. Yeah, totally, totally. It's
very cool. Yeah that's awesome. Um, all right, man, we
will move on into California Split, a movie that I'm
a little ashamed to say I have never had never
seen until this morning. Oh I watched it this morning too,
did you? Yeah? You should have come over. Yeah. I

(01:01:54):
don't think that there's any embarrassment. I rarely meet people
that have seen it. I'm a big Altman thing and
though like you just got past me. Um, I Am
Too and and my Um. If I were to list
my top ten favorite movies of all time, which is
something I would probably do because we love making lists

(01:02:15):
in my family. I don't know why. I think it's like,
I think it's it. I think it's an offshoot of
narcissism that like that, like if it's on your list,
like you're bestowing it like knighthood or something like that.
Um but um, I think all I think I think Long, Goodbye, Nashville,
and California Split would all be maybe top six or seven.

(01:02:38):
Were those three all in a row, because I know
Goodbye and this one we're back to back. They're very
close thieves like us was right in there Too, which
is also a great movie. That one's even more obscure,
and it's really good. But it's I put it a
notch below these three. A lot of people for California
to put a notch below Goodbye in Nashville, which I
get for various reasons. Um, it's it's it's some ways

(01:03:00):
less ambitious, but I mean everything is less ambitious than Nashville.
Um but you know what I mean. Yeah, Um, but
like I love I still love those movies the way
Altman made movies. He's kind of another like he's way
more hit and mess for the rest of his career.

(01:03:21):
But I also very very much like mash and um
come back to the Five and Dimes, Jimmy d and
Jimmy Dean's I think it's a really strong movie. And um,
the players are good movie, maybe a little overrated, but shortcuts, yeah,
I found a lot of d n A in this
film in shortcuts when I watched it in that just

(01:03:44):
sort of the sort of the and you lived in
do live in l A. So you know that l
A thing. It's a different sort of like the underbelly
sort of low life. L A is completely different than
New York. Yes, and it's a very specific thing. And
Altman just nails it. Yes, California Split is a very

(01:04:04):
l A movie. And it's also a very like there
are a lot I almost said I could go on
and on talking about this movie, but I guess that's
why I'm here. M I um, you know, I uh,
there's a lot of elements of it that are very
personal to me. Um, just in terms of gambling, and

(01:04:26):
like I love the I don't just love gambling, I
love the gambling lifestyle. Um, and I love that. Um,
that's sort of like you know what Elliott Gould's character Charlie,
you know, the way he lives his life is something that,

(01:04:49):
um that I've been drawn to forever interesting like the idea,
and I see a parallel between that and being an actor.
It's like you're gonna live outside of the bounds of
you know. UM. I always thought. Um, I remember having
like an argument with my brother Matt a couple of
years ago, or he brought up something about that. I

(01:05:10):
I had said I would never have a nine to
five job, like I would never and and I think
he misinterpreted that I thought that I was better than
a nine to five job, you know that like that
think that that was beneath me. But I'm like, no,
I just could, I would and could never do it.
Like it's not it's not in my likes, it's not

(01:05:30):
in my capability to do that. And I think Charlie's
like that, you know, I mean obviously he's like that,
just like not you know, like when he's like when
he goes to to um to build you know, the
George Seagull character, when he he's like goes to Bill's
job and there's no, no part of him that would

(01:05:50):
ever dream of doing that. You know, those characters are
so It's one of the other things that's so great
about it is that they're so different from one another. Yeah,
those guys are so different. But I think I have
those both those characters inside of me sense a little
bit um some of bills like sort of self reflective stuff. Yeah,

(01:06:12):
they are different. And when I was watching it, I
kind of and see what you think about this, it
kind of felt like to me like kind of up
until the end really, which you know, we'll get to
the end scene, which is like one of the best ever.
But um, Charlie, I feel like kind of feels like
like like we're the same you and me. Yeah, but
they're not at all, right, But he finds this new

(01:06:33):
friend that he uh like a lot of you know,
these guys are obviously, especially Charlie, at like a gambling addict.
I guess you would say, yeah, in sort of a
fun way. Yeah, I mean I don't think he's not
a gambling attict the way that you think of a
gambling atict which just like loses every like hats like

(01:06:55):
loses everything, you know, right, is always just they just
prefer the act. It's fun for him because he bets
on everything, and that's part of the fun of the movie.
It's really interesting because they build it as a comedy,
which it is funny in a lot of places, but
it's just got such a dark Yeah, he's not gonna

(01:07:19):
make it straight up. I mean, look what he did
with Popeye for I love it, but I gotta see
Popeye Gun. But but he had. It's a fucking weird movie. Man.
It was fun rewatching it recently, but um, Charlie has
fun gambling, Like he can't just go out and play
some pickup basketball. He's betting these guys that he can
beat them in one on one or you know. Sort

(01:07:41):
of a sad scene was at the very beginning when
he and George Siegel first hook up and they are
sort of drunk at the end of the night at
the bar and they they he bets him whether or
not he can name the seven doors, and uh, it's funny,
but it's also depressing though. It's like both at the
same time. He gets my buddy, my buddy U and

(01:08:02):
I would quote that all the time. Here comes seven
like a gatling gun, sleepy grumpy Dock that's four. That's three,
catling gun seven. Yeah, that's four, that's three. Um. But yeah, no,

(01:08:23):
I know it's it's yeah, they'll better. But you know
it's Bill is the one who's a gambling addict. Yeah,
you know what I mean, because he's the one that
has lost his life exactly exactly. Um, that's a good point.
I never really considered that. And and then and you know,
I don't know what. I don't know which direction this
conversation should go, but I can I can tell you

(01:08:45):
this sort of large my sort of larger idea. But
like I want, what this movie means to me is
it's like I feel like it's more of, um, a
kind of psychological Uh how do I put this. It's
like it's like waiting for Godot in a way. UM.

(01:09:07):
And I think that these these it's like a metaphysical
um statement, you know, Like like the idea that that
gambling is an allegory for the way everyone lives their
lives is very apparent to me. Like I I would say,
I've said to people before, and I know Charlie would

(01:09:29):
say this too, that it's all gambling man, you know,
like everything you do is a gamble. You know, like
like one like like people think it's weird. You know,
I've I've had stretches of my life where I'll go
and I certainly don't think I'm like I haven't lost
enough money to be you know. I like playing the odds.

(01:09:50):
I like the math of gambling, you know, more than
the action. But I've I've had periods of my life
where like I'll go for a week and you know whatever, gamble,
Like I'll that on sports and play poker and just
do that for stretches at a time or doing a
lot for months at a time, and like it's all
and then it's like it's really not It's almost no

(01:10:12):
different than playing the stock market. Yeah. Um, And it's
almost notes like everything you do being an actor as
a gamble, being you know, starring a podcast as a gamble.
It's like the getting married to gamble. So it's like
there's all there's this element of of what your relationship
is to yourself as a gambler, you know that is

(01:10:37):
I think the movie feels like a meditation on that
today if I if I'm really reading into it as
as much as I can, which is why I'm here.
Um and and so I really think that the UM,
that the idea that the two ways that these guys
look at their lives UM covers a lot of ground

(01:11:00):
in terms of the way all human beings look at
their lives and what their relationship is too, how much
they're willing to sort of let go and how much
they need to hold on to UM And yeah, we
can get to that end scene, but we can get
to that later if you want. Yeah, yeah, let's hang

(01:11:22):
on to that UM. But again, it's still funny in
a lot of places. It's a it's totally I mean
Altman was always such a master I think it mixing
tones UM. Actually Emily worked with him and my brother.
My brother was a d G a trainy years ago
and his first assignment was to shadow Robert Altman on
the Player for like four days and it was just,

(01:11:43):
you know, like he's never been on set before, just
shadow Robert Altman, which was really like him. I mean
it's like there. Well, Emily produced or was the upm
on gingerbread man that shot in Savannah years ago, and
so she was there like hardcore in there for the
whole shoot and she said he was great. Yeah, he

(01:12:07):
smoked pot constantly out of his little one hitter like
a cigarette all day long, which I was like, great, yeah,
I mean you can tell. But you know, he's very
He was very famous for inviting the actors to watch
Daily's together at the end of the day. It was
like a viewing party. And I don't know, man, he
was just such a Everyone always calls him a maverick,

(01:12:28):
but he really was totally like he played by his
own rules, which is so commendable. If you watch his
movies now, I mean, it's why he's such an artist.
I mean, if you watch his movies now, like you
sit down and watch Long Toby in Nashville and California,
Split and Mash and McKay Mrs Miller. That's the other one. Like,
that's another one. I totally forgot that one. That's almost

(01:12:51):
top ten for me too, top top twenty probably for me.
But but like they like and you watch those movies,
you can't you see the tour theory of films. You
see that, like you're never going to have somebody that's like, oh,
he's a lot like Altman, right, like you're not that
artist isn't really they're either stealing from him, like they're

(01:13:14):
trying they're doing the thing, but nothing feels the way
his movies feel to me. Yeah, he didn't. Uh and
and this one he even I think Altman admitted that
this one was maybe the had the thinnest plot of
them all, which says a lot because he never followed
any sort of traditional like they were never like movie
moments that you recognize as like the movie moment. It

(01:13:36):
was just ship like life unfolding. And there happened to
be a master filmmaker, like collecting the data and then
letting you watch it. Yea, because all feels so real.
It's so funny to me because I'm normally not like
that as a as a viewer, like I I a
lot like it's a lot of times I'll criticize, like,

(01:13:57):
you know, you need a plot, the movie has to have.
It has to have a forward thrust for the same
kind of moment you don't. Yeah, And it's like I
and and it should be theatrical and and I'm sure
that I'm sure I've criticized many movies for doing all
the things that California Split does. You know, it just works.

(01:14:17):
It makes me feel something that I understand um more
than and it's why I've always hung on to it
as as my favorite. You know, It's like one that
I've always been like. Here's another thing about it. I
always feel like it's really rare that I would ever

(01:14:37):
meet and I haven't yet, but that I would ever
meet anyone else who would say it's their favorite movie
at all the time. You know, it feels like it
feels special to me in that way, and I like that,
you know, Yeah, that's cool. It reminded me too. Have
you ever seen the movie Fat City? Uh, the boxing movie? No,
I know, I know the movie, but I haven't seen it.

(01:14:58):
You should check that out. It has some uh it's
a lot of similarities to this and that. Um in
that movie, it's uh it's alcoholism. But there's this down
and out boxer and he latches onto this woman and
there immediately like living together. And that was sort of
like Charlie and uh Bill they they met. I mean,

(01:15:22):
you would think if you walked in on the movie
eight minutes in, you would think, oh, yeah, these guys
are are old friends and not having just met each other.
And again in the Altman way, it wasn't some profound meeting.
It just sort of happened at the beginning. Yeah, I
love I love that it's a reveal that they Almond
almost teases that they might be working together. Yeah, that's

(01:15:44):
what it feels like. Well, I mean he definitely yea
that they could be working together at the beginning of
the movie, that they could be in with one but
they weren't, right because because you see him separately and
then you follow one of them, and then and so
then when when um, when Charlie answered as the bar
um it it could have it could easily at that

(01:16:05):
point have him walk over and sit down and say, hey,
that was great, we made this money. You know, I
kind of thought that was coming. But no, that you
see them actually meet each other, and it's like, oh,
these guys aren't. These guys are destined to meet each other.
They just happened into the same and again that bar
like in l A. It was such an l A
Like God, that part is still probably in l A

(01:16:26):
and looks just like it reminded me my bar. When
I lived there was a bar called the Drawing Room
in Los Felis. Dude, I live blocks away from the
Drawing and it's actually when I lived there, it did
go through one change. I don't know. I mean, have
you ever been there? Did you? Do? You ever go
in there? Many times? Okay? But years ago? Were you

(01:16:49):
there when they had the United States map on the
wall before I went through there? Here, here's what happened
here when I don't know when that happened, but I
was Sara's early Okay, well that was sort of right
then because they had the whole wall was a mural
of them after the United States and it was dingy
and awesome and gross. And then they shot a TV
commercial or TV show in there and got the most

(01:17:10):
minor of makeovers and that they put in like another
mural on the wall that was just fancier looking, but
it's still stayed kind of gross. And uh, you know
remember Henry You remember the bar fla Henry, Yeah, the
old black guy. Hey he Uh. I've sat and drank
next to Henry many a night over the years back

(01:17:31):
in the day. And Henry was it was a former actor,
which I never knew. And uh, that just that sad
l a bar scene is that? And I and I
I'm I'm about to sound like an alcoholic. I swear
I'm not drinking as I'm neither gambling at it nor
an alcoholic but I UM, but I I really like

(01:17:55):
have this affection for all the six Am bars and
all the is it open it um And there's a
bunch of them and and it's like like you know, um,
like the frolic room or the which might open it anyway,
and then and there's like these drunks bars and um
and yes that's exactly what that bar feels like in California.

(01:18:19):
Split but I always liked that. I don't know if
it's I'm sure a psychotherapist might say that it has
something to do with, like, I don't know, growing up
kind of sheltered in the suburbs and whatever it is,
but like that I feel at home in a way,
you know, sitting in a bar at ten and or

(01:18:41):
eleven in the morning in a in a way that
I don't and in other places around in a way
that I often don't in places that other people are
are more comfortable. Yeah, I tend to um get more
creeped out in the shiny, yeah clean places. And I
actually went, you know, the Drematanics, a couple of doors
down from the drawing room. I used to go there

(01:19:03):
and do my laundry and one morning. I went in
at like nine or ten in the morning to do
my laundry. I was like, I've never been over there
in the morning. I need to see what's going on.
And as you know, it has no windows, so you
walk in and it feels like two in the morning,
and there were exactly what you think. There were about
four or five sad alcoholics, and then there were like

(01:19:24):
four dudes up from the night before that you know,
stumbled in still drinking. Absolutely, and then I loved it.
It's awesome. And incidentally, there's a great Italian restaurant called
Purglatta next door. Now that's awesome. Um. But the uh
but yeah, I remember I have my my fondest drawing
room memory is, um is this would have been God,

(01:19:47):
I don't know. Probably if I would to guess, i'd
probably say two thou one maybe. Um. But I was
out drinking with a couple of buddies. We've gone to
a party. Um. You know, this is before cell phones.
So we got split up and I didn't know where
they went, and I thought they ditched me and we
got split up like two thirty three in the morning.

(01:20:08):
I think I was chasing some girl or something like
that and I got split up and the last and
I was like, damn, my buddies are gone. And I
went home. And I went home and I like watching TV,
and like at three thirty air four o'clock in the morning,
I crashed out, went to sleep, but my phone rang
at like ten after six, yeah, six am, A couple

(01:20:28):
a couple of hours later, and I picked up my
phone and my friend was like, Judge, is my my
nickname is Judge. He's like, he's like, Judge, We're at
the drawing room. Where are you? And I was like,
all right, I'll be right there on the phone, and
I I went right over there. I went to hang out.

(01:20:50):
I was there at six thirty and like, and Jin
the bartender, I'm sure she worked there back being an actor,
and like I probably, I'm sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah I do. Uh. But yeah, that's like there's a
whole that gambling lifestyle, that actor's lifestyle definitely overlap in

(01:21:11):
that in that like degenerate world where you know, particularly
actors who work who worked just enough to make make
a living so they don't have to have they don't
have to wait tables or have a day job, but
not enough that they're constantly working. It's a lot of
free time, which is what I've been for like twenty years.
So like it's, yeah, it's a weird, weird life, particularly

(01:21:36):
in Los Angeles. But yeah, and this movie just captures that.
It's like, um, I mean there's the scenes in the
in the the apartments of the of the ladies that
they're taking up with, but other than that, it feels
like every scene in that movie is a poker room,
a boxing match, um yeah, a horse track, like they're

(01:21:56):
they're everywhere where you can gamble. Absolutely, And I gotta
make the disc claimer that as much as I love
the movie watching it this morning, I was watching with
my fiancee and the scene with Helen who was um
uh a cross dressing older man, yeah, who played by
the great Bert Remsen, and um, he's amazing and thieves

(01:22:19):
like us, which is the other one you need to see.
But um but um, that scene felt a little dated
to me in a way that that like, like that
was the scene that I was like, I wonder if
my fiance like, you know, like it was the one
that that like I'm wondered if Natasha thinks this is stupid? Um, well,
because the scene is it's really it's a really sad scene,

(01:22:40):
but it's played in like it's the scene that I
wish I wish you could sort of read tool. Yeah,
it's it's a man in drag who is clearly like
fearful of the cops because it was a time where
you could get busted for something like that, and Ellie
Golden and Siegel like pretend their cops to be funny.

(01:23:01):
And it's again. Watching it today, I was like, man,
that's sucked up. Yeah, and I think it's I think
that it's hard as in the right place, but it's
it's played for laughs in a way that in two
thousand eighteen having like yeah, not quite as cool with
but whatever. It's hard to judge a movie from every day.
You can't. You can't. I mean, everything would fall apart

(01:23:21):
in it's hard to judge a movie from two thousand
four which last ninety four. Yeah, it looks so good too.
I didn't want to like let the cinematography get away
because it's not flashy at all. But all those Altman
movies from the seventies are just and there's something about
those films that just sort of washed out realness and

(01:23:42):
that in that color was just I just eat it up. Yeah,
and it looks so good today, I'm like a nice
flat screen TV and I read, yeah, it does it. Actually,
the first several times I saw the movie, I saw
it on a on a VHS tape that had been um,
you know, somebody had recorded when when it was like

(01:24:02):
on on cable um because you couldn't you couldn't get it.
They didn't show it anywhere, um and um. And so
that was the only copy I could get. And for
several years I had that VHS type and I, you know,
because I've seen the movie, you know, at least good
ten twelve times, and so the first many times that

(01:24:22):
I saw it, And the other thing is funny about
that is that the first like sixty second sixty ninety
seconds were cut off the front of them of that VHS.
So I never saw the very first minute or two
until like until like my eighth or ninth viewing or whatever. Well,
and they had that explanation of poker at the very
beginning to which is kind of cool. It cut in

(01:24:44):
it cut into the version that I had cut into that,
so it was that was anyway, he didn't miss much,
but no I know I didn't miss much. Um and
uh and yeah it's um it's so beautiful though, it's
like it looks a lot like when you because you
can get the you know, the good high definition version
on Amazon and it looks great. I read that, Um,

(01:25:07):
I read that there was a more I forget, I
forget who it is, but it's a name, you know,
But that there was very like experienced famous DP who
was maybe going to do it, and Altman changed his
mind at the last minute and went with somebody. He's
like just worried that he was going to try to
make it too pretty and uh, and he's like he

(01:25:28):
wanted somebody he probably just wanted somebody who could tell
what to do a little bit more, you know. But um,
but yeah, he wanted somebody who was sort of newer
that was just gonna be like just bare bonds and
it's overdo it. Yeah. Yeah. What is the California split? Um?

(01:25:50):
Because I know they split the money at the end.
Is that what it is? I don't fully get that. God,
I feel like I looked this up and I can't
remember now. I don't remember. I don't remember if it's
an old gambling term or if it just sounds like
an old gambling term. Um. But it's something about you know,

(01:26:12):
he's his back or he stakes him so they split
the money. Um, I don't know, I don't actually yeah, yeah,
I might feel like I looked that up one time
and the answer and I don't remember anymore. But I mean,
these guys are not the same. I mean, like we said,
George Siegel's character is desperate and has lost his wife
because of this gambling problem. He's got a bookie on

(01:26:34):
his tail. And and Elliott Gould, who's so I mean,
they're both great, but Elliott gouldist so like he was
Pique Elliott Gould in in the mid seventies. I totally agree.
I like, I think um so underrated. People ask me
all the time who my inspirations are as an actor,
um and the um m M, the Big Three from

(01:26:58):
me here, Buster Keaton, a guy named Eddie Bracken who's
in the present Surgeons movies, Hall Conquering hero a Miracle,
Morgan's Creek who like another old time guy who I
just have stolen things from its like and Gould and
like I love these like long Goodbye and California Split
in particular, like I love watching him work. I can't

(01:27:22):
love it, love it, love it. But this movie, to me,
Siegel match it like I've never I've never thought of
George Siegel as an actor sort of in that caliber,
but he kind of matches him perfectly here. He gets
set like like you can tell, you can tell by

(01:27:42):
looking at his face if he knows he'll never be
like that. You know, he knows he can never be
Charlie and that that like there's so many things. It's like,
you bring up him losing his wife. I love that,
you know. The only two mentions have of his wife
are there's one point when he goes to bam money

(01:28:03):
from a guy and he's like, oh, I'm getting this
esp that you're that you've you're back with your old lady.
And then the second one is when he's with Um,
the Gwen Wells character, and she's great, also great in
Nashville Um. And it's like a seduction of very depressing

(01:28:24):
seduction scene and and she's like, you're married and he says, yeah,
well he said Mary's you're married. He says, what does
that matter? I'm separated. And that's it. We don't I
love that. We don't need and part of this is
how well Siegel plays it. We don't need anymore. We
don't need him to give some monologue about what happened

(01:28:45):
with him and his wife. We don't need him to
say at the end of the movie, I gotta go
try to make things right with my wife. We don't
need any of that stuff. It's not necessary for the drama.
The drama is mined by knowing that it's there, and
by then you feel it by watching it, Like, I
love that, and I just I think nobody does that

(01:29:06):
better than an all unruly Yeah, I mean, and he
allows the actors like you never catch these guys acting
or feeling like they're saying lines. It's just so real. Yeah,
and especially I mean they're both great. But Elliot Cool
just blew me away. And he's sonny and like confident.
He's just like and and and like you know, his

(01:29:28):
character does some things that are that are like this
guy's a little bit can be a little bit of
a piece of ship sometimes for sure, But you never
mad at him. You know, you want to hang out
with him. Um and and when the when the when
the chips are down and he has to pull off
something more he can do it like when he when

(01:29:49):
he goes and gets his money back from the bully
at the beginning and he beats him up in the
bathroom and and he says at the end he's a
funny man, and he's and that scene, he's like, who's
funny man? Now? Like that anger is there, you know,
and and you know he it's it's all, that's what
a performance. As you say, that's the best best punch

(01:30:09):
I've ever best punch punch. And then he kicks and
he's like it wasn't one of your punches, but yeah, yeah,
but I'll take it away, but I'll take it yea.
And then he's like he starts kicking him and yeah,
so so cool. Um. I also love the scene where
he uh comes back from Tijuana and George heels so

(01:30:31):
piste off at him. That scene is amazing to me
because he does the one arm piccolo player, which is
just hysterical, which is hysterical. It's to watch. He's great
at it. But it's another scene where Siegel's reaction to
that when he fall falls out laughing, that seems very real.
I'm like he had they had to film this where

(01:30:53):
he really didn't know that was that had to have
been the case, that was such a real moment other
I mean, or maybe not. Maybe you know, it's to
relate that to myself, this tiny little pet peeve. I
don't mind it that much. But there's a scene in
the first Guardians movie where Brookers doing is you know,

(01:31:13):
I got a good thing and um, and my character
like cracks up behind him. Yeah, I think I remember that.
And frequently I have fans come up to me, and
I don't look against them, but they're like, that had
to be really, you really were cracking up, and and
the the actor inside of me wants to be like, no,
I was acting there, that's my job, you know, and

(01:31:35):
my and and and it was. It was actually a direction.
It was like we did it a few different ways,
and one of them was was you know, if we're
gonna I'm gonna crack up, so that yeah, there's a choice.
I'm gonna crack up, like as though I'm surprised by it,
And so I played it that way. Thanks. But yeah,
so I'm like, so I think back, and I'm like,
maybe Seagull was just acting, but if he is, man,

(01:31:56):
he does it beautifully because looks like a real bust
out after. I think it's probably I think I don't
think he's acting there. I think I think that he
must have really not know what known what was coming there. Yeah,
and it brought real to him in that moment. Yeah,
he's still He's still around. I love. It's so funny
to look back at a time. And I talked about

(01:32:17):
this a lot on the show in the seventies where
George Siegel and Elliott Gould are leading men, Like, if
this movie were made today, it would be you know,
Channing Tatum and Matt Damon. You know, it's like you
could be Dustin Hoffman or George Siegel in in top
line of movie, which is just crazy. Yeah great, you know, um,

(01:32:38):
I know, I know that those performances are so good,
and they're they're ones I watched as as an actor.
I watched him over and over and over again, and
and I just like, I'm kind of in in awe
of it's everybody's trusting everybody, you know, all right, So
let's let's get to that ending. Um they go to Reno. Yeah,

(01:33:00):
that go all in and pull their money, uh, which
is always this gambling movies give me a pit in
my stomach. Like when people are putting their all their
money on the line, just like this fucking makes me
so nervous. And this is a spoiler alerts, So if
you want to watch the movie because at this point
and watch it and then listen to the rest of it.
But because yeah, I expected the first time I saw it,

(01:33:24):
I fully expected George Siegal lose everything and and then
learned some lesson. Absolutely, and that's the way it feels
like it should have gone. But it's even better. Yeah,
they win, he wins everything, and he learns and he
learns that even marsh or lesson, which is that it
doesn't bring him anything, it doesn't make him. Such a

(01:33:44):
sad scene, they win eighty two grand and Elliott could
Charlie is over the moon singing and left money. We're
going to go out on the town. They want to
interview us where Celeberty sweets at the hotel for a week,
gamble every day, live like kings, you know, and and
it's the to me, it's it's my favorite. This is

(01:34:06):
why this is the movie that I chose my favorite
moment not just in films, but in in like really
just personally just art in general. Is that that scene
starts with Charlie coming in and Bill is all still desponding,

(01:34:26):
and Charlie's like, like, you know, wow, do you always
take it? You always take a big win this heart
or whatever. And Bill looks at him and he says, Charlie,
there was never any special feeling. I just said there was.
Charlie says, yeah, I know that everybody knows that. Okay.

(01:34:46):
To me, that little exchange, that's it. That's the human
experience for me, in a nutshell like that, that to me,
I can apply like I can apply that exchange to religion.
I can apply it to to you know, relationships, I
can apply it to like any thing about how people

(01:35:07):
live their lives. Like that, to me is a fundamental
truth that I can't um it is. It is just
That's what art to me is when it's working its best,
is that that's an expression of a fundamental truth. You

(01:35:27):
know that, like I there wasn't any special feeling. I
just said there was and and which is already profound
enough because it's like it is like it is a
little almost like religion. That's why I feel like the
movie is like Waiting for Good. Oh, It's like it
is a little bit like, um, you know, like religion
or relationship or whatever, you know, like when you fall

(01:35:49):
in and out of love really quickly, are you you know?
Or like, um, you know, you convince yourself that your
religion is saving you when it's not. But then it's
even better that Tryly responds like, no kidding, Yeah, I
mean I thought we all. I thought we knew that,
you know. And and that's why they realized, oh, we're
not like at all. Yeah, you know, like I feel

(01:36:10):
like it's over after that, Like these guys are never
going to see each other again. Yeah, Charlie's like, I
thought that was I thought we were you know, Um,
I thought that was the truth that we all just
sort of agreed to not talk about, but that we like,
of course I'm pretending when I say I have a
I have a special magical feeling, you know, um, And

(01:36:31):
and like I don't know, it's it comes up for me,
that moment comes up for me over and over and
over again in my life. That's good stuff, man. It's
such a just gut punch of an ending, it is.
And then Ellie Gould is so good right after that too,
because after that exchange and he's still sitting there and

(01:36:54):
he's to spawn and and then that total that choker,
you know, that funny man that we've seen the whole
movie was gone. It just drops out of his face.
It was remarked, like one shot and it just drops.
And he says it doesn't mean a fucking thing, doesn't

(01:37:14):
he knows, he knows like they they everybody gets it.
It's like it is like when I can talk about
the poetry of of art. It's like, rather than having
a guy lose everything and learn learn the lesson, right,
you have them win everything and learn the lesson. You know,
Like that's just fucking beautiful. Yeah, so good, And only

(01:37:37):
Altman would have been ballsy enough to and and shout
out to uh and me. We talked about Altman a lot.
But the screenwriter, Um, who's in the movie. You know
he plays Spike? Oh really yeah? Joseph Walsh. Yeah, he
plays the guy, he plays the uh he plays the
bookie that George Siegel. Then he goes and orders the chili.

(01:37:57):
Yeah yeah, I didn't done that. Yeah, Um, what else
has he written? Did? He was? He was an actor
from what I understand, who like was you know, not
getting the roles he wanted and that you know, had
that movie. I I don't know much. I resally don't
know much else about him. I mean I think that
I'm my guess is that Alman and Ellie Cool took

(01:38:20):
a lot of liberties on the script. I would think probably,
so such a great I don't know how much of
that is is in the movie. But yeah, but and
then and then the movie also has the has the
you know, the pressions to end the movie. When it's done,
you know, it's like you have that scene and it's
like there's nothing more that needs to be said between them,

(01:38:42):
and there's nothing more that needs to be said in
the movie. It's like, yeah that this is what we
this is what we came here for. Now we've learned it,
let's move on. Yeah. And and it's also one of
those endings that makes you sort of rethink everything you
had seen for the previous two hours and say, oh,
like it was there the whole time, the sadness and
this like it's not the gambling. Like these guys, it's

(01:39:05):
not like, oh they won the eighty two grand, so
now they're happy and now they're satisfied. Uh, it's such
a good movie. Thank you for choosing this because it
would have slipped by me. Probably. I'm glad, all right.
We finished with a couple of quick segments what Ebert said,
this movie is a complete disappointment, and then five questions.

(01:39:28):
Ebert gave this four stars. At the end of California Split,
we realized that Altman has made a lot more than
a comedy about gambling. He's taken us into an American nightmare,
and all the people we met along the way I
felt genuine and looked real. This movie has a taste
in his mouth like stale air conditioning. And no matter
what time it seems to be, it's always five in

(01:39:48):
the morning in a second rate casino. It's kind of
nails it. I like that that. He's yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah,
that's pretty good. Uh. And then five questions with Shawn Gunn.
First movie you remember seeing in the theater? Mm hmm,

(01:40:16):
bedobs and broomsticks? Yeah, I think I saw that. Yeah,
would that be before Greece? That's probably before Greece, right, yeah,
I think so. They were pretty close, so probably, But yeah,
I saw both those in the theater too, those old
Disney Uh, those were fun movies. First R rated movie
you saw home or in the theater. Um, I got

(01:40:37):
to see all that stuff earlier than anybody as the youngest. Yeah,
as the youngest. Um, I think it was well, you're
at Halloween. Come out and feel like that was like
seventy nine or something. Yeah, I think it was Halloween. Wow,
so you were Yeah, I was in there. Uh we

(01:40:59):
walk out of a bad move me? Yeah? And do
you remember doing so? Do you want to name it? Oh? Man,
I've walked out of movies that people like. Um, I uh,
I remember walking out a quiz show. Oh, interesting, that's
good movie. I thought the first half of it was terrible,

(01:41:20):
but I can't tell. I don't know. I was you
know what. I also saw that movie when I was
a very arrogant college student, you know who, like was
very and I was like yeah, and I think we
also wanted to go do something else or whatever. So
I don't know if that quite kind. I bet i'd
watched it now and say it's fine. Um, what else
have I've definitely walked out of other movies though I'm

(01:41:41):
you know, not a lot, but I've done it all right. Um,
let me see here. Number four. I tried to tailor
to the guests. So what movie from the past do
you most I wish you could have been in? Mm hmm.
You can name a role if you want, but you
can also just say I would have loved to have
been in Writers of the Lost Dark or whatever. No,
I think you know what comes like? There's I mean,

(01:42:06):
can I give you too? Because these are these are
within my acting career, and there are movies that that like,
I think, um Man, this movie would have been better
if I had played this role, you know what I mean?
And the main one is and I know he made
it for no money and the guy like wrote the
movie or whatever, but I is as low budget as

(01:42:28):
it is. I felt like I should have been the
lead in Pie, the Aaronofsky movie. And I'm a math
guy too anyway, And it's just like I remember watching
the movie and saying, like, God, God, this movie is
really cool, but it would be so much better if
they had if they had if this actor was more
sort of on top of what he was doing. That
was sort of one of them, because he just doesn't

(01:42:48):
seem like a professionally, seems like, you know, um that
could have seen you in that movie. And the other
one is a movie that I love actually anyway, But
I remember seeing Wonder Boys and God and I was
right in the pocket where like, like I was very jealous.
I saw Toby McGuire and I'm like, this guy's got
a career and he's a movie star and I'm like

(01:43:10):
struggling for commercial auditions or whatever. But I'm like, he
does a fine job. But I'm like I would have
been perfect for that, right, That's one of my favorite movies.
That movie is freaking great. It really is, like, like
I I look forward to seeing that movie again. It's
so it's so good, and I really believe, Actually Toby

(01:43:32):
McGuire is good in that movie, you know, But it's
one that like when I watched, I'm like, that's when
I would It's good. Great answers uh. And then finally
movie going one on one, what's your movie routine? When
you go? Where do you sit? What do you eat? Um,
I've I've gotten farther back. I don't care that much

(01:43:54):
about eating when I'm here. Um, But usually, you know,
I see movies by myself a lot less than I
used to. So like when I'm with my fiance, it's
she's a popcorn person, so I'll eat popcorn, but I
don't really care that much about eating. Um, I for

(01:44:15):
for to for to go to a movie that's not
going to be too packed. I will take not sitting
next to people over a location like I don't. I'd
rather not have people on if you can get away
from it. And also, as I've gotten older, I don't mind,
I mean, and also as movie theaters have gotten better,
I don't mind a little further back here, I would

(01:44:35):
say I'm generally like about two thirds of the way
back towards one of the other of the sides. But
then adjusting that for like an island of safety where
there's not too many people around, and I see so
many like I bet I haven't seen three movies in
the theater this year. Yeah, I don't get out as

(01:44:55):
much as I used to. For sure, that just happens.
But I hear Andy's really good, and I heard I've
heard that too, and my buddy said it, go see
a Stars Born, So I'm gonna go see it. I
want to see that too, your buddy, uh the raccoon? Yeah? Yeah,
all right, good stuff, man, Thanks a lot, Thanks appreciative,

(01:45:16):
is all right, everybody? I hope you enjoyed that. That
was a fun talk. Afterwards. Shawn's very sweet. He was like,
I hope that I wasn't long winded. How long did
these normally go? And I'm like, dude, they go as

(01:45:36):
long as they go, And if they're long ones, then
that's a good sign. Then it's a good one because
that means that we were having a good human conversation
eye to eye with no cell phones in front of
our faces, which was great. And really enjoyed his insight
on California split um a lot of things I didn't
think about that he sort of opened my eyes to
with this movie and our our shared love of Elliott

(01:45:59):
Gould was apparent. So now we're Elliott Gould Bros. And
George Siegel Bros. Great film. Glad he turned me onto it.
I got a couple of more holes to fill in
my Altman slate thanks to Sean telling me about those movies.
So I can't wait to watch those. And I might
have him in here again, folks. He uh, he and
I got along so well, and he's in the area

(01:46:21):
and I'm definitely gonna get his lovely fiance Natasha on
and we're gonna talk about movies. Too, so look forward
to that and I hope you enjoyed it. You can
follow Sean on Twitter if you're into that at Sean
gun s E A n G. You double in the
Judge apparently, what a great nickname. So thanks to Sean

(01:46:42):
for coming in and we will see you next week
on Movie Crush everyone, and until then, why don't you
go Bene watched The Gilmore Girls. It's a lot of fun. Ye.

(01:47:02):
Movie Crush is produced, engineered, edited, and soundtracked by Noel
Brown and Ramsay Hunt at how Stuff Work Studios, Pont
City Market, Atlanta, Georgia.