February 28, 2025 • 39 mins
Jamie Mackay talks to Dr Vaughn Holder, Farmer Tom Martin, Jane Smith, and Shane Jones.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The best of the country with Rubbobag, Choose the Bank
with one hundred and twenty years global agribusiness experience Grow
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
Maybe today and Good Morning New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay.
This is the best of the country Here on News
Talks d BE. Each and every Saturday morning, we play
the best bits of our weekday show twelve to one.
Musical theme today is Share for the Golden Shares happening
in Masterton today the Big Open Final Tonight. The roof
(00:41):
will be lifted from the War Memorial Stadium in Marsted,
a brilliant sporting event. I'm going to kick off the
show today with a two part interview with all Tech's
Kentucky based Global Research director for Beef, doctor Vaughan Holder.
Keynote interview for the week, really really interesting preview of
a feature length documentary called World Without Cows. Farmer Tom
(01:03):
Martin's a UK farm and correspondent, Gee, farmers have got
it good in this country compared to what they're facing
in the UK. We're going to talk to Jane Smith,
outspoken North Otago farmer, an environmentalist, and Shane Jones nos
Show Without punch. The Prince of the province is Martua.
Shane caught up with him on Thursday Show and he
(01:23):
was in the Solomon Islands in his sights, Electricity, gen
Taylor's and Woke Banks. You're going to love them. It's
all on the Best of the Country, brought to you
by Rabobank.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
The Best of the Country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Rabobank normally on the country when we head to Lexington, Kentucky,
it's to talk to our US farming correspondent, Todd Clark,
but today it's the turn of doctor Vaughan Holder from
all Tech. He's their global research director for b And
the reason we're talking to Vaughan is because this week
premiering in New Zealand limited screening documentary called World Without Cows?
(02:11):
Are we better off in a world without cows? Faughn
explain the rationale behind this feature length documentary.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, so this was a little bit of a response
to something that we actually saw in the media several
years ago. It was actually the Super Bowl commercial which
was by a company called Oakley, which is an oat
milk or a milk substitute matter out of oats I
were singing about the advert was actually the CEO of
the company singing about no more cows, no more cows,
(02:41):
and how great that would be. And our CEO, Mark Lyons,
decided that let's investigate what that would actually look like,
what would actually happen if we did what this guy
was proposing and actually eliminate cows from the world. So
what Mark did was he hired a couple of journalists
to go in and actually independently evaluate what would happen
(03:01):
if we were to remove caps.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
From our world.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Now last night, for my sins, and it wasn't it
wasn't an endurance at all. I sat through a thirty
six minute presentation you had on YouTube done in twenty
twenty two to the Ontario Sheep Farming Association, and it
was really interesting. We're going to put the link up
on our social channels if you don't mind. And your
final slide was interesting. You said, agriculture has gone from
(03:26):
having the most important job in the world to having
the two most important jobs in the world, one feeding
the world, two reversing climate change. Now, how do you
explain that because there's so much rhetoric about how ruminants
are ruining the planet.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, yeah, I think probably most importantly before we get
to the climate change pieces, to not forget that first piece. Right,
We're here producing food for the gold, and that is
the job of agriculture in general. So I think that
we sometimes lose sight of that, and it's worth they
reminding people how important that is to us.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
As a society.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
But secondly, I think it's really the case, and it's
referring to some more recent research that's come out. You know,
when we look at the history of cattle specifically, or
ruminant animals, cattle and sheep, and the climate change conversation,
it's all been focused on emissions, right, how much methane
does this cow make, how much methane does a sheep make?
(04:25):
And how does that compare to fossil fuel emissions. The
problem with that is is that fossil fuel emissions are
essentially a one way high, right. We take carbon out
of the ground, we burn it, and it goes up
into the sky, whereas animal emissions are cyclical by nature.
We use ecosystems to make food, and we're just not
(04:45):
measuring the other side of the equation. We are both
producing methane and absorbing CO two in this process, And
if we don't measure both the emissions and the absorption
of these carbon equivalents, we're only measuring half the story.
It's like a trying to tell what your bank balance
is when you're only measuring what you're spending and not
measuring what you're earning.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So it's the carbon cycle that you're talking about, and
you're dead right, we're only measuring one side of the equation.
Can I move on from the carbon cycle to sequestration?
Are farmers getting a fair deal on sequestration i e.
Everything on the farm that sequesters carbon and I'm talking
about grass and soil.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah. No, the answer is no, because I don't think
that we have enough science to be able to predict
that on a large scale. And so this is the
real issue with us making policy decisions this early, and
the understanding of a subject is that we are going
to make the wrong decisions if we don't have enough
science to support what we're doing. So I think in
(05:47):
some cases where it's been pretty well established, some farmers
are getting credit for this, but I think for the
most part they're not getting a fair shake at least
in terms of diluting their emissions with the sequestration that
actually happens with grazing animals.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Some of the key findings from this documentary humanity has
a profound reliance on cows. And I'll just quote three
facts here. One trillion estimated global market value of cattle
and associated industries. One trillion dollars I'm talking about here.
This was a state that surprised me, doctor Vaughnholder. One
in ten people depend on cows for their livelihoods. That's
(06:26):
eight hundred million people out of an eight billion world population.
So those are interesting states.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, and that's just directly right, that's people who are
directly involved in agriculture and rely on it for their livelihood.
Every other person on the planet also depends on agriculture
for their livelihood, right, because we all eat food every day.
So that's that number is significantly get bigger. But yes,
it is eye opening to know that directly that many
(06:53):
people actually depend on agriculture as their first their first
option in terms of income.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
You're also saying, well, I saw in your presentation once
again going back to twenty twenty two, but I'm sure
some of this is replicated in the movie that we
could not feed the planet without ruminants because they take
stuff non digestible protein, converted grass into food we can eat.
You know, we can eat grain, but we can't eat grass.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, that's absolutely case, and that's that idea of upsicking, right.
They are producing more food than they're eating, and even
folks will say that we shouldn't be feeding grain to
these animals, but they actually increase the nutrient concentration of
even the grains that we feed them. So it is
a critical piece of our food security picture. And in
(07:44):
a world where the estimate is that more than half
of the world's countries and territories are currently protein and secure,
it's a pretty important role for these animals. And again
unintended consequences. If we are talking about removing ruminants from
these pictures, it will create a devastating effect on the
global food security picture.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Doctor Vaughan Holder with us from all Tech Global Research
Director for Beef. We're going to take a break back
on the other side of it. We're going to look
at methane. Dr Vaughan Victim or Villain.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
The Best of the Country with Rubbobank the Bank with
local acribanking experts passionate about the future of rural communities.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Rubbobank come back to the country and welcome back to
doctor Vaughan Holder from all Tech out of Lexington, Kentucky.
Here is the global research director for Beef. Let's talk
about methane once again, referencing your presentation to the Ontario
sheep Farmer. Sorry to keep throwing it at you, but
I haven't seen the film yet and I've seen that now.
(08:45):
Methane you're saying only lasts in the atmosphere for twelve years.
It's not such a big deal. Or have I misinterpreted you?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
No, I don't want to know you haven't at all.
I don't want to minimize the impact of methane because
methane is a really potent greenhouse gas, right, but we
have to just be careful with how we measure the
effets of methane and the way that we're doing it
right now. And in a lot of government programs, they
are comparing methane directly to carbon dioxide, and these two
(09:14):
gases behave very very differently in the atmosphere. Carbon dioxide accumulates.
In fact, when you drive your car to work today,
you put out a certain amount of co two when
you drive tomorrow, you double that, right if your car
was putting out methane. If you drive the same distance
every day and you excrete the same amount of methane
(09:36):
every day, the amount of warming stack the same over time.
What that means is if we have stable herds of
cattle and sheep, we actually end up not having an
increase in warming over time. It also means that if
we take methane out that we end up having coop
over time, which is really really important. So we've just
(09:56):
got to be careful how we handle it. It's not
that it's not important. I just think it's been mischaracterized
by the media.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You're talking about stable herd numbers. Well, I know that
the number of bovines in the world hasn't really increased
since nineteen ninety. Here in New Zealand, incidentally, when it
comes to sheep and beef numbers, our emissions have dropped
by about thirty percent since nineteen ninety due to attrition
in our national flock and herd. So we're already doing
(10:24):
our bit. Why are we penalizing farmers for methane emissions?
If the methane emissions are not increasing. Surely the problem
with global warming and climate changes, as you said, man
burning fossil fuels.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, and that's very very clear. If you look at
the burden of the different gases in the environment over time,
vast majority of the impact is due to CO two accumulation.
So that's without that goes without saying. But I do
think that we need think about methane as an opportunity
as well for us. Like I said in that presentation,
(11:00):
it is one of the only industries that exists at
the scale that can actually do something about climate change.
So are they getting a fair shake? No, I don't
believe so. But I also think that doesn't mean we
should just say we've done our bit and that's the
end of the story, because there's a lot of opportunities
with methan and in fact you will see that in
the developed world as you describe in the reductions in
(11:25):
methane over time are pretty significant, but as a global injury,
they as still going up. So the opportunity exists to
go to the places where we are increasing herd numbers
and do the same thing there and we will have
the same effect over time. So there's a lot of
opportunity in terms of addressing this issue worth agriculture itself.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Tell me about the Buck Islands project.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, this is a really interesting place. And I've mentioned
probably a couple of times on this interview that some
of the areas of science are not yet so not
I find right. So this is a really interesting group
of ecologists that are working together with animal scientists in
understanding what the role of cattle are in ecosystems and
(12:07):
the effect of the ecosystems are on cattle. So looking
at carbon sequestration by the landscape, looking at emissions by
the animals, and what interventions we can do to manipulate
that system right too, So you can increase the amount
of carbon that ecosystem is taking up while simultaneously actually
reviewing the amount of carbon in the environment. And they've
(12:29):
shown that they can actually produce a calf crop in
a carbon negative fashion. They have carbon negative beef out
of Buck Island.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
All this will be revealed in the documentary, the feature
length documentary World Without Cows, doctor Vaughnholder out of Kentucky.
How can we see it here in New Zealand?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, so they will be at least limited screening initially,
So if you can make it out to one of
our events that have a limited screening, you can go
to those. But otherwise you will have to wait and
see which streaming platform we end up on, because that
is eventually the goal for the movie to reach as
bigger audience as possible.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
As I said, you're in Kentucky. That is not an
American accent. Sounds South African to me, no hiding it.
I know you're a big rugby fan, yep. Are you
looking forward to the Springboks losing or US continuing our
winning streak at Eton Park? We haven't lost there since
nineteen ninety four. We're playing you later this season. It
is going to be literally the game of the century
(13:29):
or the best game of footy between World Cups. I
put to you, you.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Know what, I'm quietly confident about that one. But this
is Eden Park, so you guys have a pretty big
fortress over there, so you know what, Whichever way that
game goes, it's going to be epic and it'll be
good for rugby in general. So I'm pretty excited about it.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Now you realize the Springbok attack coach former All Black
Tony Brown plays golf at our golf club, so we
might just do something to him, you know, don't I
chuck something into his food or his corona. He's a
big fan of that. Just before the test he might
get a bit of food poisoning.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You guys, just never going to let that one go.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
It will be our version. It will be the Otago
Golf Club's version of Susy Doctor Vaughnholder, thank you so
much for your time today. It's been a wonderful chat.
We'll put the link for your presentation up on our
social channels and I'm really looking forward to seeing this
feature length documentary A World Without Cows asap.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Thanks so much, it's been great.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
The best of the country with Rubbobank.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
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Speaker 2 (14:35):
UK farming correspondent farmer Tom Martin very big in social
media circles, but who would want to be a farmer
in the UK at the moment, Tom, I thought our
last labor government was bad for farming. They've got nothing
on Sir KaiA Starmer's lot. He's trying to wipe farming
off the face of the earth. In the UK. You've
just finished your National Farmers' Union annual conference in London.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
It all kicked off well, Jamie, we are Brits after all.
It was relatively respectful, but there was a lot of
anger in the room, I can tell you, and not frustration,
not upset, but real anger. It's an existential crisis for
us here in UK farming at the moment.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You're telling me that British farmer confidence or UK farmer
confidence is at an all time low.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
That's right. I mean confidence is important because it allows
us to plan long term, to strategize, to invest. And
let me tell you there's almost no investment happening at
the moment because we just don't know if we're going
to be here next year or you know, when we
move to the farm moves to the next generation. We
won't be able to and that's the problem. We now
have this inheritance tax being levied from April twenty twenty six,
(15:44):
potentially twenty percent, and it will absolutely cripple us with
farm margins at zero point five to one percent average
I say average, We're just not going to be able
to pay this tax and it will send family farm
businesses to the.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Wall watching a video on YouTube, I think from the
Telegraph who were covering the in if you the National Farmers'
Union conference, and they were talking about a ninety year
old woman who had farmed all a life and she
wanted to pass the farm down to the next generation.
And basically to make that happen, she had to die
before as sad as the sounds had to die before
(16:20):
April twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
That's right. For the last forty years we've had this
inheritance tax exemption, which basically means that farmers can confidently invest,
grow and do everything that we want to do to
do all the great jobs we do, produce nutritious food,
protect the environment, all the stuff. We've said this before,
but so the advice has been to farm to your
grave and then you have the ability to pass the
farm onto the next generation. Well that's just gone with
(16:44):
the stroke of a pen. And because it didn't go immediately,
it goes on April twenty twenty six. If you are
still alive in April twenty twenty six, you will succumb
to this. And there have been it's ridiculous, there have been.
You know, there are the older generations who've worked all
their lives to build up this our business, support their
family and they'd be better off not making it past
(17:05):
the thirty first of March. And it feels almost a
bit flippant, a bit ridiculous to be saying that, but
there are you know, there have been some terrible, absolutely
awful stories I've been hearing across the farming community here
in the UK.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
You've got seventy million people or something like that on
your island. What about food security? What about that? Doesn't
the labor government get.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Well? Quite We're I think we're fifty eight percent self
sufficient at the moment. Obviously there are some things we
can't grow, but we're a nation, you know, we're a
nation of farmers. We've been farming this land, these islands
for you know, one hundreds thousands of years. It's a
huge challenge. The government talks about one of their key
pillars being growth, but in order to grow, you need confidence,
(17:50):
and there's no confidence in farming at all at the moment.
One of the key messages from Steve Ree today, who's
the Secretary of State for the Environment for Defora Department
for Environment and Food and we were was that he
wants to improve profitability I will consider it a failure
of my time as Secretary State if I do not
improve farm of productivity. Well there was a laugh across
the room, because we're not going to make it. It's
(18:13):
not about just a sticking plass that you know. The
armor has been amputated, it's gone and it's been a real,
real challenge. One of the things he was talking about
was increasing public procurement, sourcing food for the major public
sectors locally. Well, the French government did that in twenty
ten when the Labor Party were laughed in, So it's
pretty old news, it's not something new and exciting. He
(18:35):
was talking about ensuring that we maintain our standards in
international food deals now and trade deals. We've spoken about
trade deals before and we Jomie he said, we will
be maintaining our standards. And when he was questioned and
said do you mean maintaining our standards or ensuring that
food imported to the UK adheres to the standards that
UK farmers have to adhere to, he said, yeah, well
(18:58):
we're going to be maintaining ourked And as like I said,
so I just have below zero confidence. There's no confidence whatsoever.
And that's echoed across the farming community, businesses large and small,
all sectors. It's as bad as it's ever been.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So is there any chance at all that the labor
government will step back on this inheritance tax because it
seems to be the major sticking point.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
There's always a chance, and I would say to them
there is no shame in changing your mind. Various different
industry bodies sectors have come out, The Confederation of British Industry,
the Central Association of Agricultural Valuers, the Country and Land
Business Association, independent Labor Economist Advisors have all come out
and said this is not going to achieve what it
(19:42):
was supposed to achieve, raising tax revenue of five hundred
million a year and protecting family farms whilst making it
more difficult for people to avoid tax, avoid inheritance tax
by putting their money into farmland. And actually this week, sorry,
last week, the UK farming unions went to the Treasury
(20:03):
with another suggestion which would generate more tax, but would
mean that the tax was payable on the land sale
within a certain number of years of someone passing, rather
than at the time of death. And they were roundly
just turned away, sent off. The door closed behind them
and absolutely nothing has happened at all. So I don't know,
(20:25):
it's difficult. It feels like they're digging in for the
long haul, but there is no shame in changing your mind.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
A final comment from the outside looking and from me,
Sir Kiir Starmer, the labor leader, your prime minister seems
to be more concerned about Ukraine glad handing on the
world stage than he does about British farmers.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Yeah, and you know he's our figurehead. We've talked about
your different prime ministers down in New Zealand and you
know his role is an international role and me while
the rest of his cabinet run the country. So I
do see that. But it's very frustrated as a as
a British citizen seeing millions of pounds being given away
all over the place, only to find that we're you know,
(21:06):
we're really having well, we're really being torn apart in
the in the UK farming sector. It's it's it's pretty
diret it's pretty ridiculous. And when we look internationally, well,
New Zealand doesn't even have any inheritance tax, they don't
have capital gains tax as far as I'm aware, So
it just feels I don't know, it just feels ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
I'm glad I live here, not there, or trying to
farm over there would be impossible. Tom, all the best
springs just around the corner. I hope the farming season
treats you well.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Thanks, We'll plant again, but gosh, it's going to be
a tough one.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
The Best of the Country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Ravo Bank.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Good morning New Zealand and welcome back to the Best
of the Country. It's brought to you by Rabobank. We're
growing a better New Zealand together. This is sheer musical
theme for the day. Half Breed is sharing crossbreads in
that big open final tonight at the Golden Shares in Marsterton.
Up next on the Best of the Country The Best
(22:19):
Bits of Our weekday show twelve to one. Jane Smith
outspoken North Otago farmer environmentalist. Following up on doctor Vaughan
Holders interview from the day before. She also had some
interesting comments on intrast rates, farmer confidence, on farm conditions
and running her first marathon. Shane Jones, I think his
marathon running days might be behind them, the old Prince
(22:41):
of the Provinces, but he's doing a lot of miles
right around the world representing New Zealand. Caught up with
the month's Thursday show in the Solomon Islands, Always entertaining.
Now Today is day three of the Northland Field Days
at Dargavill. If you're floating about in matt Neck of
the Woods, call in and see the Rabobank team and
the Rabobank Marquee. You'll find them at Site F thirteen
(23:04):
on silver Fern Farms Road. Plus the DL team will
be on hand to discuss your equipment finance needs. Next
week on the Country, I'll be catching up with Rabobank
Senior ag Analyst Emma Higginson, who will review next Wednesday
Morning's GDT event, the auction and preview the latest Rabobank
(23:25):
Global Dairy Quarterly Report. We'll get Emma's number, is she
brave enough to go? Ten dollars plus? Up next Jane Smith.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
The best of the Country with Rabobank, the bank with
local agri banking experts, passionate about the future of rural
communities Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
She's a North Otago farmer taking time out of a
very busy daity yard to us, Jane. I don't know
whether you caught up with doctor Vaughan Holder on yesterday's show,
but this is what he had to say about the
split gas approach to greenhouse scarce emissions, i e. Methane
versus CO two And these two gases behave very very
(24:10):
differently in the atmosphere.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Carbon dioxide accumulates. In fact, when you drive your car
to work today, you put out a certain amount of
CO two. When you drive tomorrow you double that. Right
if your car was putting out methane. If you drive
the same distance every day and you excrete the same
amount of methane every day, the amount of warming stays
the same over time. What that means is if we
(24:35):
have stable herds of capital and sheep, we actually end
up not having an increase in warming over time.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
Also, there you go.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
That's what he had to say yesterday as the poster
girl for the Methane Science Accord. Is that the name
of it? Jane? What do you have to say?
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Music to my ears, Jamie. Enlightening and great to hear
some sense and sensibility from doctor Holder. And whether you
look at it as a livestock seat as a whole
or extrapolate it down to farm level. The two questions
that are all of our ad leaders and our politicians
have consistently failed to ask. These are our New Zealand
(25:12):
livestock methan emissions increasing? The answer is no. And then
the second one is with these manythan emissions, are they
stable and therefore or decreasing and therefore are they adding
to warming? Answer also no, And so both of these
meats the definition of net zero. Jamie, job done. And
that's again why it was really really great to hear that,
(25:35):
And you know, a great analogy there by doctor Holders.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I think, yeah. Well, and the interesting thing is, or
perhaps the obvious thing is perhaps agriculture ruminants are adding
to a cooling effect.
Speaker 6 (25:48):
Absolutely, Jamie. And I've said that at a couple of
speeches that have done and you know, I've sort of
been ridiculed for that over the last four to five years.
And the reality is that the climate change hysteria is
diversely related to economic growth. So you know, let's actually
get our facts right on this and draw a line
under the whole methane mitigation mythical, you know, money wasting
(26:11):
and turn off the tap and start focusing on the
real problems in New Zealand, of which we have many.
And it was interesting to hear Christopher Luxe, and I
think it was yesterday, say we need to make the
tough choices and the trade offs. So here it is.
Here are the facts in black and white. And you
know twenty four billion dollars that they've potentially signed us
(26:32):
up for with their net zero and their new targets.
Twenty four billion dollars, Christopher Luxe, and you could buy
a new defense force and ten new hospitals to that,
or do what you've signed us up to do and
get a gold star on your sticker chart when you
go to the next climate change conference.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Jamie.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
It was disappointing to hear Grant McCallum, what is in
sifted line yesterday saying how poor do we want our
country to be? Well, that is exactly the question that
we've been asking. So to hide behind that of that
byline of trade deals, there is actually not one single
trade deals that states that we need to stay in
the Paris Agreement, Jamie, So please stop hiding behind at
(27:09):
news helens and actually just take our own stance. We
just be proud of our free range produce, and let's
just be really upfront and honest in terms of the
part that we need to play for the world is
just being a leader in that area.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Jamie, oh Parl, Grant McCallum. Everyone's getting into them interest rates.
What do you got to say about that?
Speaker 6 (27:28):
It's interesting. So I just thinking last night what had
been on. Franklin say, if you want to know the
value of money, go and borrow some. And it's an
interesting fact that you'll see our bank actually increased our
interest rates just before the OHR announcement, and I was
intrigued to see that happen. And I'm yet to see
them go down, but you know, they certainly are heating
in the right direction generically, and that's going to actually
(27:50):
pump a lot more money into actually useful things in
terms of spectrum back economic growth, back into our communities. Jamie.
And I guess I'll dewave it cynical when I saw
the Farmer confidence too they come out. I guess that
was taken at the time when she Sarah Farmers and
Luxton were walking hands on hand on stage and their
(28:11):
civil union on their tour. And there's been a few
roadblocks since then, including the misguided emissions target announcements. But
you know, I guess one thing, Jamie, And I was
just thinking back eighteen months ago. I said that we
had lost and there was hope, and there was just
a lack of hope in our rural community, and that
obviously extriculates out throughout the whole entire country. And I
(28:33):
feel like we are back on having some hope and
I think that's really great. So there is some positivity
out there, and let's encapsulate there and actually work on
the right things, Jamie, and not waste no more time
on this methaan folly.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Gee, you're getting into the nets today mcnational and then Lucksom, Hey,
how are things on your North Otago farm. I'm looking
at my knee drought index map and you're there's no
yellow where you are. You You must be doing okay?
Speaker 6 (28:59):
Yeah, Jamie. We've been very fortunate actually over that Christmas
obviously New y period, right through January right into February,
we seem to have gathered about I think it's about
af you or ninety up to probably one hundred miles
of ray now, which is again unusual. We're not in
that sort of northwesterly pattern that we usually have, and
there's a lot of feed about in stock are looking goods,
(29:20):
So all boats well for a really good autumn, because
it's autumn that really is our pivot point. Like most
East Coast or areas that do get dry, it's the
autumn that can really sort of make or break as Jamie.
So no, things are very positive in that regard.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Well, you're farming on the East coast, you're heading west
this weekend to run the Motor Tapu Marathon. That's a
lot of running up Parl if you don't mind me
saying so, Jane.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
It's not a deal for twenty of half marathons, Jamie.
I've never done a full one, so you think I
would be wise enough not to do a mountain run
on my first one. But I figure it can't be
any worse than childbirth or six years of a labor
Greens government, Jamie. So I think I'll just I'll just
survive through it. Jamie.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Well, they tell me, and I've done three, but might
have all been on the roads, and I think that's
a bit easy. You've got to run up to the
top of the hill. But the hard part apparently is
running down into Arrowtown the downhill. But it's quite it's
quite tough on the old knees. I hope your knees
are good.
Speaker 7 (30:13):
Me.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
He's a good joonie.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
Not sure about the rest of my physique, but again
I think I'm hopefully mentally I'll get there. I think
the last twenty odd ks might be the tought. But
looking forward to it. Jamie, always up for a challenge.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Good on you, Jane Smith. Thank you very much for
your time. Good Luck on Saturday or is it Sunday?
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Saturday?
Speaker 6 (30:31):
And yes, I'll need it. Thank you, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Good luck on Sunday for the recovery. See you later.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
Yeah, the best of the country with Rubbobank.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
Grow with Rubbobank as.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
A man who wears many hats in this government. I
don't know what hat he's wearing today. On WhatsApp from
the Solomon Islands, the Minister of digging it up and
damning it up. Hello, Shane, what are you up to?
Speaker 8 (30:55):
I'm up here not figuratively catching fish, but working with
the governments to ensure that the fisheries narrative coming out
of the Pacific is driven by economic empowerment as much
as sustainability, because we spend one hundred million dollars every
three years with the Pacific governments helping them not only
(31:17):
put up guardrails around.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Fishing, but to make money from fishing.
Speaker 8 (31:20):
Because as you know, I've annoyed all the greenies and
we have allowed the fishing industry out of New Zealand
to do some more bottom trawling.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
We're not going to.
Speaker 8 (31:29):
Let obscure pieces of coral and sponge undermine the presence
of New Zealand industry in the Pacific. Those sort of
unicorn kissing ideas have seen.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
The light to day.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
There air to hell with the environment. Hey, we should
be less worried about fish in the Pacific and more
worried about the Chinese, shouldn't we.
Speaker 8 (31:48):
Well, it's a very sad development that the minister are
the Prime Minister of Raratonga has devalued New Zealand citizenship
New Zealand citizen. He had a constitutional obligation to engage
with our leader, Winston Peters and Thunder's nose at the
(32:09):
Rangatira at Winston and look some of the words coming
out of the Raratong in Parliament I think a very polarizing.
They show disrespect from New Zealand and I think that
a lot of the people making those outlandish statesments from
(32:31):
Raratonga their own background, would not withstand robust scrutney.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Now we had Nichola Willis on the show yesterday talking
about the Paris Climate Agreement or record, whatever you call it,
and Winston said on this show a week or so
ago that we should be out of it. David Seymour said, look,
the punishment for leaving it will be less than of
the cost for staying in. But Nichola was assured us
yesterday that New Zealand First and ACT were fully behind
(32:59):
us staying in the Paris Climate Agreement.
Speaker 8 (33:02):
What do you say, Well, we need to show fidelity
through our coalition agreements to each other. But come the
election were free agents New Zealand First. In the last
election we said that we were not going to be
marched to the altar of climate cultism in order to
(33:23):
burnish our international credentials. And the reality is we need
to fight a campaign on it. We need to convince
New Zealanders that the costs of the current mix of
climate internationally driven policy is too burdensome and it's going
to drive much of New Zealand into pauperism.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
So it's going to be every man for himself come
election time, and.
Speaker 8 (33:47):
So it should be the key. We need to see
a menu of ideas. That doesn't mean that we don't
accept that there has to be a whole bunch of
investments so we can cope with more volatile weather and
climate uncertainty. But don't for a moment think by taxing
every cow in Canterbury you're going to change the weather
(34:07):
in Gisbon. That level of naivety is going to have
ruinous consequences on you and I.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Now you're spending a bit of time off shore, you're
going to rack up some airpoints for your Christmas holidays,
Sean Jones, because you're off to Canada for a mining conference.
You'll literally be like a peg and.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
Mark, Yes, I had the role of reinvigorating the mining sector.
I believe I'm delivering on it. We are also going
to salvage the oil and gas sector. Today there was
some major announcements made by the Chocolate Teapot otherwise known
as the Electricity Authority Hopefully it'll turn into a silver
(34:44):
teapot if we can tame the behavior of the gent
tailors and get them to accept that they.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
Have two roles.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
Maintain energy supply, boost international boost industry industrial competitiveness, and
keep power of affordable for our garden variety. Kiwis and
I don't believe any longer that the model dominated by
the gen Taylors is fit for the New Zealand economy.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Well, good on you for getting stuck into them and
the banks. We support you one hundred percent on this one. Now,
Nikola Willis has also come out. I don't know if
you've caught up with this one. In the Solomon Islands,
maybe we could be taxing sports and community clubs just
so we can get to the likes of Sanitarium and
Destiny Church. Now I'm all for taxing those two, but
(35:30):
I don't want my Riversdale rugby club Shane Jones to
be taxed.
Speaker 8 (35:35):
Yeah, she's announced that we're going to have a broad
review and study into the matter. I don't think that
there's anything wrong with checking whether the policy is fit
for purpose. Let's face it, we need fiscal firepower to
redevelop our military build hospitals, and we need to ensure
(35:56):
that the tax exempt status of Knightaho, Brethans, the Sanitarium
and the others doesn't represent an unfair advantage to those
firms over ordinary firms that are paying tax through in
every direction. And I don't think it's a bad idea
that she inquire into that, because that's what the Aussies
(36:18):
have done. And let's face it, the tax exempts, the
taxation exempts status of a number of these charitable organizations.
They're not down at heel rugby clubs. The metahu is
the most powerful corporation in the South Island, the Brethren Investments.
(36:38):
They have about twelve billion dollars spread across the Australasian
war chest. And I'm sure that they understand if you're
a citizen and you have to contribute to the community
and you should pay your fair share.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Absolutely, just very quickly before I go. David Seymour's running
the country at the moment, Prime Minister Luxon and Winston
are out of the country. How many people need to
be out of the country before you get a crack
at the top job.
Speaker 8 (37:05):
I rather suspect that I'll be well down the picking
order before dear leader puts them to her own charge
of the New Zealand economy.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
That would be a fox and a henhouse. See you later,
Thanks for your time. From the Solomon Islands.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
See you mate, bye.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
The best of the country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Rabobank Prince of the Province's Shane Jones from the Solomon Islands,
wrapping our best of the country. Imagine Shane running the country.
He'd be there for a good time, not a long time,
but it would be very entertaining. The best of the
country is brought to you by Rabobank. We're growing a
(37:49):
better New Zealand together. If you get a chance tonight,
go online and have a look at that Golden Shares
Open final. It is pure sporting theater at its very
very best. You have a great weekend and I hope
the dry parts of the country gets some rain. I'm
going to leave you with Sheer just for the Golden Shears,
(38:09):
just because I can. With's gypsies, tramps and thieves. He's
double bar.
Speaker 7 (38:14):
I just solve them more. Beal gave him a ride
fielding with a hot meal.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
I was sixteen.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
He was twenty and w.
Speaker 7 (38:23):
Road with us some Memphis and Tama water Shine him if.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
He knew what he's done.
Speaker 7 (38:31):
Jeers from bad were hearing from the people of the
Town's cart dem beef trim bad beeves. Whatever night, all
the men would come around and need the money down.
I never had schooling, but it taught me well.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
When it's moon file.
Speaker 7 (38:53):
Three months later, I'm a gall in trouble that I
haven't seen him.
Speaker 5 (38:57):
Oh, I see him.
Speaker 7 (39:08):
She was born in the wagon of a traveling show.
My mama had to dance for the money they broke.
Grandpa to whatever you called creature, little gospel, sell a
couple of bottles of doctor good. Gens Trande, we're hearing
(39:30):
from the people of the town they called gens trying dais.
Whatever night, all the men would come around and lead
their money down.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Jesus pas trying dan pis.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
We're hearing from the people of the town they called
dee trim the
Speaker 7 (39:51):
Thieves what Every night, all the men would come around
and lead their money down.
The best of the country with Rubbobag, Choose the Bank
with one hundred and twenty years global agribusiness experience Grow
with Rubbobags, trou.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Maybe today and Good Morning New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay.
This is the best of the country Here on News
Talks d BE. Each and every Saturday morning, we play
the best bits of our weekday show twelve to one.
Musical theme today is Share for the Golden Shares happening
in Masterton today the Big Open Final Tonight. The roof
(00:41):
will be lifted from the War Memorial Stadium in Marsted,
a brilliant sporting event. I'm going to kick off the
show today with a two part interview with all Tech's
Kentucky based Global Research director for Beef, doctor Vaughan Holder.
Keynote interview for the week, really really interesting preview of
a feature length documentary called World Without Cows. Farmer Tom
(01:03):
Martin's a UK farm and correspondent, Gee, farmers have got
it good in this country compared to what they're facing
in the UK. We're going to talk to Jane Smith,
outspoken North Otago farmer, an environmentalist, and Shane Jones nos
Show Without punch. The Prince of the province is Martua.
Shane caught up with him on Thursday Show and he
(01:23):
was in the Solomon Islands in his sights, Electricity, gen
Taylor's and Woke Banks. You're going to love them. It's
all on the Best of the Country, brought to you
by Rabobank.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
The Best of the Country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Rabobank normally on the country when we head to Lexington, Kentucky,
it's to talk to our US farming correspondent, Todd Clark,
but today it's the turn of doctor Vaughan Holder from
all Tech. He's their global research director for b And
the reason we're talking to Vaughan is because this week
premiering in New Zealand limited screening documentary called World Without Cows?
(02:11):
Are we better off in a world without cows? Faughn
explain the rationale behind this feature length documentary.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, so this was a little bit of a response
to something that we actually saw in the media several
years ago. It was actually the Super Bowl commercial which
was by a company called Oakley, which is an oat
milk or a milk substitute matter out of oats I
were singing about the advert was actually the CEO of
the company singing about no more cows, no more cows,
(02:41):
and how great that would be. And our CEO, Mark Lyons,
decided that let's investigate what that would actually look like,
what would actually happen if we did what this guy
was proposing and actually eliminate cows from the world. So
what Mark did was he hired a couple of journalists
to go in and actually independently evaluate what would happen
(03:01):
if we were to remove caps.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
From our world.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Now last night, for my sins, and it wasn't it
wasn't an endurance at all. I sat through a thirty
six minute presentation you had on YouTube done in twenty
twenty two to the Ontario Sheep Farming Association, and it
was really interesting. We're going to put the link up
on our social channels if you don't mind. And your
final slide was interesting. You said, agriculture has gone from
(03:26):
having the most important job in the world to having
the two most important jobs in the world, one feeding
the world, two reversing climate change. Now, how do you
explain that because there's so much rhetoric about how ruminants
are ruining the planet.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, yeah, I think probably most importantly before we get
to the climate change pieces, to not forget that first piece. Right,
We're here producing food for the gold, and that is
the job of agriculture in general. So I think that
we sometimes lose sight of that, and it's worth they
reminding people how important that is to us.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
As a society.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
But secondly, I think it's really the case, and it's
referring to some more recent research that's come out. You know,
when we look at the history of cattle specifically, or
ruminant animals, cattle and sheep, and the climate change conversation,
it's all been focused on emissions, right, how much methane
does this cow make, how much methane does a sheep make?
(04:25):
And how does that compare to fossil fuel emissions. The
problem with that is is that fossil fuel emissions are
essentially a one way high, right. We take carbon out
of the ground, we burn it, and it goes up
into the sky, whereas animal emissions are cyclical by nature.
We use ecosystems to make food, and we're just not
(04:45):
measuring the other side of the equation. We are both
producing methane and absorbing CO two in this process, And
if we don't measure both the emissions and the absorption
of these carbon equivalents, we're only measuring half the story.
It's like a trying to tell what your bank balance
is when you're only measuring what you're spending and not
measuring what you're earning.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So it's the carbon cycle that you're talking about, and
you're dead right, we're only measuring one side of the equation.
Can I move on from the carbon cycle to sequestration?
Are farmers getting a fair deal on sequestration i e.
Everything on the farm that sequesters carbon and I'm talking
about grass and soil.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah. No, the answer is no, because I don't think
that we have enough science to be able to predict
that on a large scale. And so this is the
real issue with us making policy decisions this early, and
the understanding of a subject is that we are going
to make the wrong decisions if we don't have enough
science to support what we're doing. So I think in
(05:47):
some cases where it's been pretty well established, some farmers
are getting credit for this, but I think for the
most part they're not getting a fair shake at least
in terms of diluting their emissions with the sequestration that
actually happens with grazing animals.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Some of the key findings from this documentary humanity has
a profound reliance on cows. And I'll just quote three
facts here. One trillion estimated global market value of cattle
and associated industries. One trillion dollars I'm talking about here.
This was a state that surprised me, doctor Vaughnholder. One
in ten people depend on cows for their livelihoods. That's
(06:26):
eight hundred million people out of an eight billion world population.
So those are interesting states.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yeah, and that's just directly right, that's people who are
directly involved in agriculture and rely on it for their livelihood.
Every other person on the planet also depends on agriculture
for their livelihood, right, because we all eat food every day.
So that's that number is significantly get bigger. But yes,
it is eye opening to know that directly that many
(06:53):
people actually depend on agriculture as their first their first
option in terms of income.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
You're also saying, well, I saw in your presentation once
again going back to twenty twenty two, but I'm sure
some of this is replicated in the movie that we
could not feed the planet without ruminants because they take
stuff non digestible protein, converted grass into food we can eat.
You know, we can eat grain, but we can't eat grass.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, that's absolutely case, and that's that idea of upsicking, right.
They are producing more food than they're eating, and even
folks will say that we shouldn't be feeding grain to
these animals, but they actually increase the nutrient concentration of
even the grains that we feed them. So it is
a critical piece of our food security picture. And in
(07:44):
a world where the estimate is that more than half
of the world's countries and territories are currently protein and secure,
it's a pretty important role for these animals. And again
unintended consequences. If we are talking about removing ruminants from
these pictures, it will create a devastating effect on the
global food security picture.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Doctor Vaughan Holder with us from all Tech Global Research
Director for Beef. We're going to take a break back
on the other side of it. We're going to look
at methane. Dr Vaughan Victim or Villain.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
The Best of the Country with Rubbobank the Bank with
local acribanking experts passionate about the future of rural communities.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Rubbobank come back to the country and welcome back to
doctor Vaughan Holder from all Tech out of Lexington, Kentucky.
Here is the global research director for Beef. Let's talk
about methane once again, referencing your presentation to the Ontario
sheep Farmer. Sorry to keep throwing it at you, but
I haven't seen the film yet and I've seen that now.
(08:45):
Methane you're saying only lasts in the atmosphere for twelve years.
It's not such a big deal. Or have I misinterpreted you?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
No, I don't want to know you haven't at all.
I don't want to minimize the impact of methane because
methane is a really potent greenhouse gas, right, but we
have to just be careful with how we measure the
effets of methane and the way that we're doing it
right now. And in a lot of government programs, they
are comparing methane directly to carbon dioxide, and these two
(09:14):
gases behave very very differently in the atmosphere. Carbon dioxide accumulates.
In fact, when you drive your car to work today,
you put out a certain amount of co two when
you drive tomorrow, you double that, right if your car
was putting out methane. If you drive the same distance
every day and you excrete the same amount of methane
(09:36):
every day, the amount of warming stack the same over time.
What that means is if we have stable herds of
cattle and sheep, we actually end up not having an
increase in warming over time. It also means that if
we take methane out that we end up having coop
over time, which is really really important. So we've just
(09:56):
got to be careful how we handle it. It's not
that it's not important. I just think it's been mischaracterized
by the media.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You're talking about stable herd numbers. Well, I know that
the number of bovines in the world hasn't really increased
since nineteen ninety. Here in New Zealand, incidentally, when it
comes to sheep and beef numbers, our emissions have dropped
by about thirty percent since nineteen ninety due to attrition
in our national flock and herd. So we're already doing
(10:24):
our bit. Why are we penalizing farmers for methane emissions?
If the methane emissions are not increasing. Surely the problem
with global warming and climate changes, as you said, man
burning fossil fuels.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, and that's very very clear. If you look at
the burden of the different gases in the environment over time,
vast majority of the impact is due to CO two accumulation.
So that's without that goes without saying. But I do
think that we need think about methane as an opportunity
as well for us. Like I said in that presentation,
(11:00):
it is one of the only industries that exists at
the scale that can actually do something about climate change.
So are they getting a fair shake? No, I don't
believe so. But I also think that doesn't mean we
should just say we've done our bit and that's the
end of the story, because there's a lot of opportunities
with methan and in fact you will see that in
the developed world as you describe in the reductions in
(11:25):
methane over time are pretty significant, but as a global injury,
they as still going up. So the opportunity exists to
go to the places where we are increasing herd numbers
and do the same thing there and we will have
the same effect over time. So there's a lot of
opportunity in terms of addressing this issue worth agriculture itself.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Tell me about the Buck Islands project.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, this is a really interesting place. And I've mentioned
probably a couple of times on this interview that some
of the areas of science are not yet so not
I find right. So this is a really interesting group
of ecologists that are working together with animal scientists in
understanding what the role of cattle are in ecosystems and
(12:07):
the effect of the ecosystems are on cattle. So looking
at carbon sequestration by the landscape, looking at emissions by
the animals, and what interventions we can do to manipulate
that system right too, So you can increase the amount
of carbon that ecosystem is taking up while simultaneously actually
reviewing the amount of carbon in the environment. And they've
(12:29):
shown that they can actually produce a calf crop in
a carbon negative fashion. They have carbon negative beef out
of Buck Island.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
All this will be revealed in the documentary, the feature
length documentary World Without Cows, doctor Vaughnholder out of Kentucky.
How can we see it here in New Zealand?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, so they will be at least limited screening initially,
So if you can make it out to one of
our events that have a limited screening, you can go
to those. But otherwise you will have to wait and
see which streaming platform we end up on, because that
is eventually the goal for the movie to reach as
bigger audience as possible.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
As I said, you're in Kentucky. That is not an
American accent. Sounds South African to me, no hiding it.
I know you're a big rugby fan, yep. Are you
looking forward to the Springboks losing or US continuing our
winning streak at Eton Park? We haven't lost there since
nineteen ninety four. We're playing you later this season. It
is going to be literally the game of the century
(13:29):
or the best game of footy between World Cups. I
put to you, you.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Know what, I'm quietly confident about that one. But this
is Eden Park, so you guys have a pretty big
fortress over there, so you know what, Whichever way that
game goes, it's going to be epic and it'll be
good for rugby in general. So I'm pretty excited about it.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Now you realize the Springbok attack coach former All Black
Tony Brown plays golf at our golf club, so we
might just do something to him, you know, don't I
chuck something into his food or his corona. He's a
big fan of that. Just before the test he might
get a bit of food poisoning.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You guys, just never going to let that one go.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
It will be our version. It will be the Otago
Golf Club's version of Susy Doctor Vaughnholder, thank you so
much for your time today. It's been a wonderful chat.
We'll put the link for your presentation up on our
social channels and I'm really looking forward to seeing this
feature length documentary A World Without Cows asap.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Thanks so much, it's been great.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
The best of the country with Rubbobank.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 5 (14:33):
Grow with Rubberbank.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
UK farming correspondent farmer Tom Martin very big in social
media circles, but who would want to be a farmer
in the UK at the moment, Tom, I thought our
last labor government was bad for farming. They've got nothing
on Sir KaiA Starmer's lot. He's trying to wipe farming
off the face of the earth. In the UK. You've
just finished your National Farmers' Union annual conference in London.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
It all kicked off well, Jamie, we are Brits after all.
It was relatively respectful, but there was a lot of
anger in the room, I can tell you, and not frustration,
not upset, but real anger. It's an existential crisis for
us here in UK farming at the moment.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You're telling me that British farmer confidence or UK farmer
confidence is at an all time low.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
That's right. I mean confidence is important because it allows
us to plan long term, to strategize, to invest. And
let me tell you there's almost no investment happening at
the moment because we just don't know if we're going
to be here next year or you know, when we
move to the farm moves to the next generation. We
won't be able to and that's the problem. We now
have this inheritance tax being levied from April twenty twenty six,
(15:44):
potentially twenty percent, and it will absolutely cripple us with
farm margins at zero point five to one percent average
I say average, We're just not going to be able
to pay this tax and it will send family farm
businesses to the.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Wall watching a video on YouTube, I think from the
Telegraph who were covering the in if you the National Farmers'
Union conference, and they were talking about a ninety year
old woman who had farmed all a life and she
wanted to pass the farm down to the next generation.
And basically to make that happen, she had to die
before as sad as the sounds had to die before
(16:20):
April twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
That's right. For the last forty years we've had this
inheritance tax exemption, which basically means that farmers can confidently invest,
grow and do everything that we want to do to
do all the great jobs we do, produce nutritious food,
protect the environment, all the stuff. We've said this before,
but so the advice has been to farm to your
grave and then you have the ability to pass the
farm onto the next generation. Well that's just gone with
(16:44):
the stroke of a pen. And because it didn't go immediately,
it goes on April twenty twenty six. If you are
still alive in April twenty twenty six, you will succumb
to this. And there have been it's ridiculous, there have been.
You know, there are the older generations who've worked all
their lives to build up this our business, support their
family and they'd be better off not making it past
(17:05):
the thirty first of March. And it feels almost a
bit flippant, a bit ridiculous to be saying that, but
there are you know, there have been some terrible, absolutely
awful stories I've been hearing across the farming community here
in the UK.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
You've got seventy million people or something like that on
your island. What about food security? What about that? Doesn't
the labor government get.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Well? Quite We're I think we're fifty eight percent self
sufficient at the moment. Obviously there are some things we
can't grow, but we're a nation, you know, we're a
nation of farmers. We've been farming this land, these islands
for you know, one hundreds thousands of years. It's a
huge challenge. The government talks about one of their key
pillars being growth, but in order to grow, you need confidence,
(17:50):
and there's no confidence in farming at all at the moment.
One of the key messages from Steve Ree today, who's
the Secretary of State for the Environment for Defora Department
for Environment and Food and we were was that he
wants to improve profitability I will consider it a failure
of my time as Secretary State if I do not
improve farm of productivity. Well there was a laugh across
the room, because we're not going to make it. It's
(18:13):
not about just a sticking plass that you know. The
armor has been amputated, it's gone and it's been a real,
real challenge. One of the things he was talking about
was increasing public procurement, sourcing food for the major public
sectors locally. Well, the French government did that in twenty
ten when the Labor Party were laughed in, So it's
pretty old news, it's not something new and exciting. He
(18:35):
was talking about ensuring that we maintain our standards in
international food deals now and trade deals. We've spoken about
trade deals before and we Jomie he said, we will
be maintaining our standards. And when he was questioned and
said do you mean maintaining our standards or ensuring that
food imported to the UK adheres to the standards that
UK farmers have to adhere to, he said, yeah, well
(18:58):
we're going to be maintaining ourked And as like I said,
so I just have below zero confidence. There's no confidence whatsoever.
And that's echoed across the farming community, businesses large and small,
all sectors. It's as bad as it's ever been.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So is there any chance at all that the labor
government will step back on this inheritance tax because it
seems to be the major sticking point.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
There's always a chance, and I would say to them
there is no shame in changing your mind. Various different
industry bodies sectors have come out, The Confederation of British Industry,
the Central Association of Agricultural Valuers, the Country and Land
Business Association, independent Labor Economist Advisors have all come out
and said this is not going to achieve what it
(19:42):
was supposed to achieve, raising tax revenue of five hundred
million a year and protecting family farms whilst making it
more difficult for people to avoid tax, avoid inheritance tax
by putting their money into farmland. And actually this week, sorry,
last week, the UK farming unions went to the Treasury
(20:03):
with another suggestion which would generate more tax, but would
mean that the tax was payable on the land sale
within a certain number of years of someone passing, rather
than at the time of death. And they were roundly
just turned away, sent off. The door closed behind them
and absolutely nothing has happened at all. So I don't know,
(20:25):
it's difficult. It feels like they're digging in for the
long haul, but there is no shame in changing your mind.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
A final comment from the outside looking and from me,
Sir Kiir Starmer, the labor leader, your prime minister seems
to be more concerned about Ukraine glad handing on the
world stage than he does about British farmers.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Yeah, and you know he's our figurehead. We've talked about
your different prime ministers down in New Zealand and you
know his role is an international role and me while
the rest of his cabinet run the country. So I
do see that. But it's very frustrated as a as
a British citizen seeing millions of pounds being given away
all over the place, only to find that we're you know,
(21:06):
we're really having well, we're really being torn apart in
the in the UK farming sector. It's it's it's pretty
diret it's pretty ridiculous. And when we look internationally, well,
New Zealand doesn't even have any inheritance tax, they don't
have capital gains tax as far as I'm aware, So
it just feels I don't know, it just feels ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
I'm glad I live here, not there, or trying to
farm over there would be impossible. Tom, all the best
springs just around the corner. I hope the farming season
treats you well.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Thanks, We'll plant again, but gosh, it's going to be
a tough one.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
The Best of the Country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Ravo Bank.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Good morning New Zealand and welcome back to the Best
of the Country. It's brought to you by Rabobank. We're
growing a better New Zealand together. This is sheer musical
theme for the day. Half Breed is sharing crossbreads in
that big open final tonight at the Golden Shares in Marsterton.
Up next on the Best of the Country The Best
(22:19):
Bits of Our weekday show twelve to one. Jane Smith
outspoken North Otago farmer environmentalist. Following up on doctor Vaughan
Holders interview from the day before. She also had some
interesting comments on intrast rates, farmer confidence, on farm conditions
and running her first marathon. Shane Jones, I think his
marathon running days might be behind them, the old Prince
(22:41):
of the Provinces, but he's doing a lot of miles
right around the world representing New Zealand. Caught up with
the month's Thursday show in the Solomon Islands, Always entertaining.
Now Today is day three of the Northland Field Days
at Dargavill. If you're floating about in matt Neck of
the Woods, call in and see the Rabobank team and
the Rabobank Marquee. You'll find them at Site F thirteen
(23:04):
on silver Fern Farms Road. Plus the DL team will
be on hand to discuss your equipment finance needs. Next
week on the Country, I'll be catching up with Rabobank
Senior ag Analyst Emma Higginson, who will review next Wednesday
Morning's GDT event, the auction and preview the latest Rabobank
(23:25):
Global Dairy Quarterly Report. We'll get Emma's number, is she
brave enough to go? Ten dollars plus? Up next Jane Smith.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
The best of the Country with Rabobank, the bank with
local agri banking experts, passionate about the future of rural
communities Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
She's a North Otago farmer taking time out of a
very busy daity yard to us, Jane. I don't know
whether you caught up with doctor Vaughan Holder on yesterday's show,
but this is what he had to say about the
split gas approach to greenhouse scarce emissions, i e. Methane
versus CO two And these two gases behave very very
(24:10):
differently in the atmosphere.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Carbon dioxide accumulates. In fact, when you drive your car
to work today, you put out a certain amount of
CO two. When you drive tomorrow you double that. Right
if your car was putting out methane. If you drive
the same distance every day and you excrete the same
amount of methane every day, the amount of warming stays
the same over time. What that means is if we
(24:35):
have stable herds of capital and sheep, we actually end
up not having an increase in warming over time.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
Also, there you go.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
That's what he had to say yesterday as the poster
girl for the Methane Science Accord. Is that the name
of it? Jane? What do you have to say?
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Music to my ears, Jamie. Enlightening and great to hear
some sense and sensibility from doctor Holder. And whether you
look at it as a livestock seat as a whole
or extrapolate it down to farm level. The two questions
that are all of our ad leaders and our politicians
have consistently failed to ask. These are our New Zealand
(25:12):
livestock methan emissions increasing? The answer is no. And then
the second one is with these manythan emissions, are they
stable and therefore or decreasing and therefore are they adding
to warming? Answer also no, And so both of these
meats the definition of net zero. Jamie, job done. And
that's again why it was really really great to hear that,
(25:35):
And you know, a great analogy there by doctor Holders.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I think, yeah. Well, and the interesting thing is, or
perhaps the obvious thing is perhaps agriculture ruminants are adding
to a cooling effect.
Speaker 6 (25:48):
Absolutely, Jamie. And I've said that at a couple of
speeches that have done and you know, I've sort of
been ridiculed for that over the last four to five years.
And the reality is that the climate change hysteria is
diversely related to economic growth. So you know, let's actually
get our facts right on this and draw a line
under the whole methane mitigation mythical, you know, money wasting
(26:11):
and turn off the tap and start focusing on the
real problems in New Zealand, of which we have many.
And it was interesting to hear Christopher Luxe, and I
think it was yesterday, say we need to make the
tough choices and the trade offs. So here it is.
Here are the facts in black and white. And you
know twenty four billion dollars that they've potentially signed us
(26:32):
up for with their net zero and their new targets.
Twenty four billion dollars, Christopher Luxe, and you could buy
a new defense force and ten new hospitals to that,
or do what you've signed us up to do and
get a gold star on your sticker chart when you
go to the next climate change conference.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Jamie.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
It was disappointing to hear Grant McCallum, what is in
sifted line yesterday saying how poor do we want our
country to be? Well, that is exactly the question that
we've been asking. So to hide behind that of that
byline of trade deals, there is actually not one single
trade deals that states that we need to stay in
the Paris Agreement, Jamie, So please stop hiding behind at
(27:09):
news helens and actually just take our own stance. We
just be proud of our free range produce, and let's
just be really upfront and honest in terms of the
part that we need to play for the world is
just being a leader in that area.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Jamie, oh Parl, Grant McCallum. Everyone's getting into them interest rates.
What do you got to say about that?
Speaker 6 (27:28):
It's interesting. So I just thinking last night what had
been on. Franklin say, if you want to know the
value of money, go and borrow some. And it's an
interesting fact that you'll see our bank actually increased our
interest rates just before the OHR announcement, and I was
intrigued to see that happen. And I'm yet to see
them go down, but you know, they certainly are heating
in the right direction generically, and that's going to actually
(27:50):
pump a lot more money into actually useful things in
terms of spectrum back economic growth, back into our communities. Jamie.
And I guess I'll dewave it cynical when I saw
the Farmer confidence too they come out. I guess that
was taken at the time when she Sarah Farmers and
Luxton were walking hands on hand on stage and their
(28:11):
civil union on their tour. And there's been a few
roadblocks since then, including the misguided emissions target announcements. But
you know, I guess one thing, Jamie, And I was
just thinking back eighteen months ago. I said that we
had lost and there was hope, and there was just
a lack of hope in our rural community, and that
obviously extriculates out throughout the whole entire country. And I
(28:33):
feel like we are back on having some hope and
I think that's really great. So there is some positivity
out there, and let's encapsulate there and actually work on
the right things, Jamie, and not waste no more time
on this methaan folly.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Gee, you're getting into the nets today mcnational and then Lucksom, Hey,
how are things on your North Otago farm. I'm looking
at my knee drought index map and you're there's no
yellow where you are. You You must be doing okay?
Speaker 6 (28:59):
Yeah, Jamie. We've been very fortunate actually over that Christmas
obviously New y period, right through January right into February,
we seem to have gathered about I think it's about
af you or ninety up to probably one hundred miles
of ray now, which is again unusual. We're not in
that sort of northwesterly pattern that we usually have, and
there's a lot of feed about in stock are looking goods,
(29:20):
So all boats well for a really good autumn, because
it's autumn that really is our pivot point. Like most
East Coast or areas that do get dry, it's the
autumn that can really sort of make or break as Jamie.
So no, things are very positive in that regard.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Well, you're farming on the East coast, you're heading west
this weekend to run the Motor Tapu Marathon. That's a
lot of running up Parl if you don't mind me
saying so, Jane.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
It's not a deal for twenty of half marathons, Jamie.
I've never done a full one, so you think I
would be wise enough not to do a mountain run
on my first one. But I figure it can't be
any worse than childbirth or six years of a labor
Greens government, Jamie. So I think I'll just I'll just
survive through it. Jamie.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Well, they tell me, and I've done three, but might
have all been on the roads, and I think that's
a bit easy. You've got to run up to the
top of the hill. But the hard part apparently is
running down into Arrowtown the downhill. But it's quite it's
quite tough on the old knees. I hope your knees
are good.
Speaker 7 (30:13):
Me.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
He's a good joonie.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
Not sure about the rest of my physique, but again
I think I'm hopefully mentally I'll get there. I think
the last twenty odd ks might be the tought. But
looking forward to it. Jamie, always up for a challenge.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Good on you, Jane Smith. Thank you very much for
your time. Good Luck on Saturday or is it Sunday?
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Saturday?
Speaker 6 (30:31):
And yes, I'll need it. Thank you, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Good luck on Sunday for the recovery. See you later.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
Yeah, the best of the country with Rubbobank.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
Grow with Rubbobank as.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
A man who wears many hats in this government. I
don't know what hat he's wearing today. On WhatsApp from
the Solomon Islands, the Minister of digging it up and
damning it up. Hello, Shane, what are you up to?
Speaker 8 (30:55):
I'm up here not figuratively catching fish, but working with
the governments to ensure that the fisheries narrative coming out
of the Pacific is driven by economic empowerment as much
as sustainability, because we spend one hundred million dollars every
three years with the Pacific governments helping them not only
(31:17):
put up guardrails around.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Fishing, but to make money from fishing.
Speaker 8 (31:20):
Because as you know, I've annoyed all the greenies and
we have allowed the fishing industry out of New Zealand
to do some more bottom trawling.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
We're not going to.
Speaker 8 (31:29):
Let obscure pieces of coral and sponge undermine the presence
of New Zealand industry in the Pacific. Those sort of
unicorn kissing ideas have seen.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
The light to day.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
There air to hell with the environment. Hey, we should
be less worried about fish in the Pacific and more
worried about the Chinese, shouldn't we.
Speaker 8 (31:48):
Well, it's a very sad development that the minister are
the Prime Minister of Raratonga has devalued New Zealand citizenship
New Zealand citizen. He had a constitutional obligation to engage
with our leader, Winston Peters and Thunder's nose at the
(32:09):
Rangatira at Winston and look some of the words coming
out of the Raratong in Parliament I think a very polarizing.
They show disrespect from New Zealand and I think that
a lot of the people making those outlandish statesments from
(32:31):
Raratonga their own background, would not withstand robust scrutney.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Now we had Nichola Willis on the show yesterday talking
about the Paris Climate Agreement or record, whatever you call it,
and Winston said on this show a week or so
ago that we should be out of it. David Seymour said, look,
the punishment for leaving it will be less than of
the cost for staying in. But Nichola was assured us
yesterday that New Zealand First and ACT were fully behind
(32:59):
us staying in the Paris Climate Agreement.
Speaker 8 (33:02):
What do you say, Well, we need to show fidelity
through our coalition agreements to each other. But come the
election were free agents New Zealand First. In the last
election we said that we were not going to be
marched to the altar of climate cultism in order to
(33:23):
burnish our international credentials. And the reality is we need
to fight a campaign on it. We need to convince
New Zealanders that the costs of the current mix of
climate internationally driven policy is too burdensome and it's going
to drive much of New Zealand into pauperism.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
So it's going to be every man for himself come
election time, and.
Speaker 8 (33:47):
So it should be the key. We need to see
a menu of ideas. That doesn't mean that we don't
accept that there has to be a whole bunch of
investments so we can cope with more volatile weather and
climate uncertainty. But don't for a moment think by taxing
every cow in Canterbury you're going to change the weather
(34:07):
in Gisbon. That level of naivety is going to have
ruinous consequences on you and I.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Now you're spending a bit of time off shore, you're
going to rack up some airpoints for your Christmas holidays,
Sean Jones, because you're off to Canada for a mining conference.
You'll literally be like a peg and.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
Mark, Yes, I had the role of reinvigorating the mining sector.
I believe I'm delivering on it. We are also going
to salvage the oil and gas sector. Today there was
some major announcements made by the Chocolate Teapot otherwise known
as the Electricity Authority Hopefully it'll turn into a silver
(34:44):
teapot if we can tame the behavior of the gent
tailors and get them to accept that they.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
Have two roles.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
Maintain energy supply, boost international boost industry industrial competitiveness, and
keep power of affordable for our garden variety. Kiwis and
I don't believe any longer that the model dominated by
the gen Taylors is fit for the New Zealand economy.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Well, good on you for getting stuck into them and
the banks. We support you one hundred percent on this one. Now,
Nikola Willis has also come out. I don't know if
you've caught up with this one. In the Solomon Islands,
maybe we could be taxing sports and community clubs just
so we can get to the likes of Sanitarium and
Destiny Church. Now I'm all for taxing those two, but
(35:30):
I don't want my Riversdale rugby club Shane Jones to
be taxed.
Speaker 8 (35:35):
Yeah, she's announced that we're going to have a broad
review and study into the matter. I don't think that
there's anything wrong with checking whether the policy is fit
for purpose. Let's face it, we need fiscal firepower to
redevelop our military build hospitals, and we need to ensure
(35:56):
that the tax exempt status of Knightaho, Brethans, the Sanitarium
and the others doesn't represent an unfair advantage to those
firms over ordinary firms that are paying tax through in
every direction. And I don't think it's a bad idea
that she inquire into that, because that's what the Aussies
(36:18):
have done. And let's face it, the tax exempts, the
taxation exempts status of a number of these charitable organizations.
They're not down at heel rugby clubs. The metahu is
the most powerful corporation in the South Island, the Brethren Investments.
(36:38):
They have about twelve billion dollars spread across the Australasian
war chest. And I'm sure that they understand if you're
a citizen and you have to contribute to the community
and you should pay your fair share.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Absolutely, just very quickly before I go. David Seymour's running
the country at the moment, Prime Minister Luxon and Winston
are out of the country. How many people need to
be out of the country before you get a crack
at the top job.
Speaker 8 (37:05):
I rather suspect that I'll be well down the picking
order before dear leader puts them to her own charge
of the New Zealand economy.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
That would be a fox and a henhouse. See you later,
Thanks for your time. From the Solomon Islands.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
See you mate, bye.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
The best of the country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Rabobank Prince of the Province's Shane Jones from the Solomon Islands,
wrapping our best of the country. Imagine Shane running the country.
He'd be there for a good time, not a long time,
but it would be very entertaining. The best of the
country is brought to you by Rabobank. We're growing a
(37:49):
better New Zealand together. If you get a chance tonight,
go online and have a look at that Golden Shares
Open final. It is pure sporting theater at its very
very best. You have a great weekend and I hope
the dry parts of the country gets some rain. I'm
going to leave you with Sheer just for the Golden Shears,
(38:09):
just because I can. With's gypsies, tramps and thieves. He's
double bar.
Speaker 7 (38:14):
I just solve them more. Beal gave him a ride
fielding with a hot meal.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
I was sixteen.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
He was twenty and w.
Speaker 7 (38:23):
Road with us some Memphis and Tama water Shine him if.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
He knew what he's done.
Speaker 7 (38:31):
Jeers from bad were hearing from the people of the
Town's cart dem beef trim bad beeves. Whatever night, all
the men would come around and need the money down.
I never had schooling, but it taught me well.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
When it's moon file.
Speaker 7 (38:53):
Three months later, I'm a gall in trouble that I
haven't seen him.
Speaker 5 (38:57):
Oh, I see him.
Speaker 7 (39:08):
She was born in the wagon of a traveling show.
My mama had to dance for the money they broke.
Grandpa to whatever you called creature, little gospel, sell a
couple of bottles of doctor good. Gens Trande, we're hearing
(39:30):
from the people of the town they called gens trying dais.
Whatever night, all the men would come around and lead
their money down.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Jesus pas trying dan pis.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
We're hearing from the people of the town they called
dee trim the
Speaker 7 (39:51):
Thieves what Every night, all the men would come around
and lead their money down.
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