March 17, 2025 • 8 mins
We catch up with the Minister of Agriculture and Trade in India where he's heading the PM's trade delegation looking for a comprehensive FTA with the world's most populous nation. But is a dairy deal off the table with the world's largest milk producer (24% aiming for 30% by 2030)? Perhaps lamb and horticulture are a better bet?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Our Minister of Agriculture and Trade has made five visits
to India since he got the job. He's in there
or he's that in India. As we speak, it's four
thirty in the morning. He's got out of bed to
talk to us, so no time to waste. We'll tell
you who's on the show after we finish with Todd McLay. Todd,
thanks for getting out of bed at Sparrow's fart to
(00:22):
talk to us. You guys are obviously making some real
progress in India.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, Jamie, thanks for having me. I'm better getting out
of bed at four thirty in the morning and going
to bed. I suppose that, mister, I'll be in trouble.
You're right, we're making very good progress, you know, and
very pleased with Prime mis de luxe and this week
to be able to announce that we have formerly launched
trade negotiations with India again a new negotiation. We're not
(00:47):
continuing the one from ten years ago, brand new, and
we're very hopeful we can make good progress relatively quickly
to get a deal over the line so we can
level the playing field with Australia.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Okay, as a dairy deal off the table, with the
world's largest milk producer, Indian producers twenty four percent of
the world's production. They're aiming to raise that to thirty
percent by twenty thirty. We better off to concentrate on
lamb and say horticulture.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, no, it's not off the table. What we've done
over the last fifteen months actually, particularly since December last
year when I was last out here, is we're intensifying discussion.
It's not on detail but negotiating, but on what the
agreement should look like, what it should have achieve, what's
some sort of mutual benefit in both sides. And so
we've all been negotiating there for everything. But there are
(01:40):
going to be some things that are challenging, and you're
right there he always has been with India. But just
putting that aside, you know, there are many many opportunities
here and I've said there's a lot on your show
over the last year, you know, for our lamb producers here,
and we don't sell much lamb up here. Australian exports
have grown significantly since they did free trade deal. And
(02:02):
you know it's thirty three percent tariff taken off them
at zero US at thirty three percent. So we're going
to this eyes wide open. We'll be negotiating, you know,
the best deal that we can get both sides. My
counterpart and may have agreed that we're not going to
talk about the detail of the negotiation as we go along.
We're going to respect the negotiators so that they can
do the best deal. But they can say to every
(02:22):
farmer and every new generder, we'll get the best deal
we can on them.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So I take it with the sacred cow and on
the base off the table as well.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Well, that's the interesting thing. Well, that's one of the
things we'll work through because although you know, the majority
of the one point four billion people here don't eat beef,
there's about three hundred million that do. I've actually asked
official to give me a bit of advice because I'm
not sure whether they've ever done beef in any other agreement.
So we'll look at that. But ultimately, what we're very
(02:53):
keen to do both sides, the Indians and New Zealand,
is get an agreement that's balanced so that you know,
they have more opportunity to sell and invest in New
Zealand as we want to up here. And that's the
different sort of the approach on the two sides now
than than ten years ago, you know, and there's done
a couple of deals with others already and including Australia,
(03:16):
and both sides have got to know each other better
and so we want to do a deal that works,
you know, and it's going to grow two way trade
rather than what it used to feel like if anybody's
out for themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Todd McLay with this Minister of Agriculture and Trade, who's
on the trade delegation obviously you and Christopher Luxen, who
seems in a sweet spot when he's deal making overseas,
are leading the delegation, But who are the key egg
players on the plane with you?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Look at significant it's the largest business there were the
largest delegation we've ever taken to India, maybe the largest
we've ever taken overseas, one hundred and twenty strom and
across the border, represented from the meat sector, from dairy, horticulture,
certainly a kiwi fruit are there across the board. Everyone's
been able to come along, either industry represented or individual companies.
(04:08):
But it's brought in that as well. You know, it's
right across our economy and then we've got a big
delegation of Indian New Zealanders out there, you know, from
sort of a cultural point of view, and it's one
of the things that actually I think is surprising the
Indian government quite a lot one how seriously we're taking
(04:29):
our our claim or our desire, decision, our dilection to
make our relationship with India priority and just how engaged
we are and how much support there is, and it's
landed very well. We've got to say, you know, over
the years, Jane, we've got a chance to go to
a lot of meetings between leaders, our prime ministers and others.
And when promounce of Modi, when Prome Minister Luxe and
(04:51):
met with Pro Minister Modi yesterday, it was warm and
friendly and veryment familiar and actually, you know, the relationships
in a really good place, you know. Prime Minister Mody
when he spoke to the media, talked about areas that
we want to cooperate. He thanked Prime Minister Action for
the efforts that he's putting in and said the areas
we want to work together, particularly around food production. He
(05:12):
said he wants to increase the earnings of their farmers
by about fifty percent by twenty thirty five. That's from
some dollars a day or a week, you know, upwards.
And he sees New Zealand as a partner in that
and so I think we're in a really good place
one to grow that relationship and two get a good
deal to trade deal for New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
You've got lots of egg laders with you. Have you
dragged any cricketers along to break the eyes?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yes, we have and it's fascinating. We're talking quite a
bit about that with them. The PM has thanked them
for not talking too much about you know, this last
Cricket World Cup where we will put the right of
the post. And that's the other very important thing. You know.
I was talking with Stephen swimming last night. He's come along,
who's the great support of what we're doing and a
(05:59):
very very good friend of India. You know, it's that
blend between this. Of course, we want to trade more
with each other, but we want bitter sporting links and
we want people to people links. And you know, we've
announced a defense cooperation defense and security, and I signed
two agreements yesterday. We're going to cooperate one in horticulture
and two in forestry, which actually is not about directly trade.
(06:21):
It's about helping, you know, grow the relationship and do
a lot more with them. And so right across the
board we're reaching out and the very good news is
that's been reciprocated from India, you know, not only if
they've started to visit us a lot more. The engagement
is growing and so I think you know, we're not
far away from that sweet spot that you know, we'll
(06:41):
be able to get that terriffyct down. I tell you here,
here's here's a promise. If we conclude an agreement with them,
I'll get I'll get lamb for zero, I reckon, and
we're able to compete against Australia and Indians will get
the best lamb in the work and only getting Australian land.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Well, if you can do that, Tom McClay deserves the
case of the just a final question for you, because
he's waiting in the wings to come on the show
after you. Damian O'Connor, Labour's trade spokesperson, did he well
and truly or did Labor well and truly drop the
ball on India? Feel free to put the boat in
because it'll only rack him up.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, No, I'm not going to do that because actually
weld be we should be pointing forward and what it
tried to do since the elect you knows, make trade
by the others, and Edward's the best for all these Islanders,
and we're working together. And I've got to say, with
the deals we did last year and also getting a
U deal and placed pretty quickly, Damien was very good
and we worked together, we sort of got stuff over
the line a lot more quickly. There'll be a range
(07:36):
of reasons right that it didn't happen, and none of
those important.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Now.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I think what we want to see a parliament joined
together and you know, and we'll go there and get
the best deal that we can and it will be
good for these Islanders. So you know, all I'd say
is I think Damon's a good guy and I wouldn't
like to be a trade magor cops and minister under
a labor government.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Okay, Yeah, And to be fair to him, he did
some excellent work in the trade sphere. Some of his
agriculture work questionable, and I'll throw that at him next,
but certainly on trade. It's nice to hear you say
some nice things about him. Hey, I don't know whether
you're going to go back to bed. It's four point
thirty or court to five in India at the moment.
Thanks for getting out of bed to chat to us.
(08:14):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
It's tracere Jamie. I'm in the middle of Delhi, so
otherwise I've gone that some cows I don't know necessarily me.
But thanks for having me on and see you when
we're back.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Good on you, Todd McLay there
Our Minister of Agriculture and Trade has made five visits
to India since he got the job. He's in there
or he's that in India. As we speak, it's four
thirty in the morning. He's got out of bed to
talk to us, so no time to waste. We'll tell
you who's on the show after we finish with Todd McLay. Todd,
thanks for getting out of bed at Sparrow's fart to
(00:22):
talk to us. You guys are obviously making some real
progress in India.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, Jamie, thanks for having me. I'm better getting out
of bed at four thirty in the morning and going
to bed. I suppose that, mister, I'll be in trouble.
You're right, we're making very good progress, you know, and
very pleased with Prime mis de luxe and this week
to be able to announce that we have formerly launched
trade negotiations with India again a new negotiation. We're not
(00:47):
continuing the one from ten years ago, brand new, and
we're very hopeful we can make good progress relatively quickly
to get a deal over the line so we can
level the playing field with Australia.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Okay, as a dairy deal off the table, with the
world's largest milk producer, Indian producers twenty four percent of
the world's production. They're aiming to raise that to thirty
percent by twenty thirty. We better off to concentrate on
lamb and say horticulture.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, no, it's not off the table. What we've done
over the last fifteen months actually, particularly since December last
year when I was last out here, is we're intensifying discussion.
It's not on detail but negotiating, but on what the
agreement should look like, what it should have achieve, what's
some sort of mutual benefit in both sides. And so
we've all been negotiating there for everything. But there are
(01:40):
going to be some things that are challenging, and you're
right there he always has been with India. But just
putting that aside, you know, there are many many opportunities
here and I've said there's a lot on your show
over the last year, you know, for our lamb producers here,
and we don't sell much lamb up here. Australian exports
have grown significantly since they did free trade deal. And
(02:02):
you know it's thirty three percent tariff taken off them
at zero US at thirty three percent. So we're going
to this eyes wide open. We'll be negotiating, you know,
the best deal that we can get both sides. My
counterpart and may have agreed that we're not going to
talk about the detail of the negotiation as we go along.
We're going to respect the negotiators so that they can
do the best deal. But they can say to every
(02:22):
farmer and every new generder, we'll get the best deal
we can on them.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So I take it with the sacred cow and on
the base off the table as well.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Well, that's the interesting thing. Well, that's one of the
things we'll work through because although you know, the majority
of the one point four billion people here don't eat beef,
there's about three hundred million that do. I've actually asked
official to give me a bit of advice because I'm
not sure whether they've ever done beef in any other agreement.
So we'll look at that. But ultimately, what we're very
(02:53):
keen to do both sides, the Indians and New Zealand,
is get an agreement that's balanced so that you know,
they have more opportunity to sell and invest in New
Zealand as we want to up here. And that's the
different sort of the approach on the two sides now
than than ten years ago, you know, and there's done
a couple of deals with others already and including Australia,
(03:16):
and both sides have got to know each other better
and so we want to do a deal that works,
you know, and it's going to grow two way trade
rather than what it used to feel like if anybody's
out for themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Todd McLay with this Minister of Agriculture and Trade, who's
on the trade delegation obviously you and Christopher Luxen, who
seems in a sweet spot when he's deal making overseas,
are leading the delegation, But who are the key egg
players on the plane with you?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Look at significant it's the largest business there were the
largest delegation we've ever taken to India, maybe the largest
we've ever taken overseas, one hundred and twenty strom and
across the border, represented from the meat sector, from dairy, horticulture,
certainly a kiwi fruit are there across the board. Everyone's
been able to come along, either industry represented or individual companies.
(04:08):
But it's brought in that as well. You know, it's
right across our economy and then we've got a big
delegation of Indian New Zealanders out there, you know, from
sort of a cultural point of view, and it's one
of the things that actually I think is surprising the
Indian government quite a lot one how seriously we're taking
(04:29):
our our claim or our desire, decision, our dilection to
make our relationship with India priority and just how engaged
we are and how much support there is, and it's
landed very well. We've got to say, you know, over
the years, Jane, we've got a chance to go to
a lot of meetings between leaders, our prime ministers and others.
And when promounce of Modi, when Prome Minister Luxe and
(04:51):
met with Pro Minister Modi yesterday, it was warm and
friendly and veryment familiar and actually, you know, the relationships
in a really good place, you know. Prime Minister Mody
when he spoke to the media, talked about areas that
we want to cooperate. He thanked Prime Minister Action for
the efforts that he's putting in and said the areas
we want to work together, particularly around food production. He
(05:12):
said he wants to increase the earnings of their farmers
by about fifty percent by twenty thirty five. That's from
some dollars a day or a week, you know, upwards.
And he sees New Zealand as a partner in that
and so I think we're in a really good place
one to grow that relationship and two get a good
deal to trade deal for New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
You've got lots of egg laders with you. Have you
dragged any cricketers along to break the eyes?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yes, we have and it's fascinating. We're talking quite a
bit about that with them. The PM has thanked them
for not talking too much about you know, this last
Cricket World Cup where we will put the right of
the post. And that's the other very important thing. You know.
I was talking with Stephen swimming last night. He's come along,
who's the great support of what we're doing and a
(05:59):
very very good friend of India. You know, it's that
blend between this. Of course, we want to trade more
with each other, but we want bitter sporting links and
we want people to people links. And you know, we've
announced a defense cooperation defense and security, and I signed
two agreements yesterday. We're going to cooperate one in horticulture
and two in forestry, which actually is not about directly trade.
(06:21):
It's about helping, you know, grow the relationship and do
a lot more with them. And so right across the
board we're reaching out and the very good news is
that's been reciprocated from India, you know, not only if
they've started to visit us a lot more. The engagement
is growing and so I think you know, we're not
far away from that sweet spot that you know, we'll
(06:41):
be able to get that terriffyct down. I tell you here,
here's here's a promise. If we conclude an agreement with them,
I'll get I'll get lamb for zero, I reckon, and
we're able to compete against Australia and Indians will get
the best lamb in the work and only getting Australian land.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Well, if you can do that, Tom McClay deserves the
case of the just a final question for you, because
he's waiting in the wings to come on the show
after you. Damian O'Connor, Labour's trade spokesperson, did he well
and truly or did Labor well and truly drop the
ball on India? Feel free to put the boat in
because it'll only rack him up.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, No, I'm not going to do that because actually
weld be we should be pointing forward and what it
tried to do since the elect you knows, make trade
by the others, and Edward's the best for all these Islanders,
and we're working together. And I've got to say, with
the deals we did last year and also getting a
U deal and placed pretty quickly, Damien was very good
and we worked together, we sort of got stuff over
the line a lot more quickly. There'll be a range
(07:36):
of reasons right that it didn't happen, and none of
those important.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Now.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I think what we want to see a parliament joined
together and you know, and we'll go there and get
the best deal that we can and it will be
good for these Islanders. So you know, all I'd say
is I think Damon's a good guy and I wouldn't
like to be a trade magor cops and minister under
a labor government.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Okay, Yeah, And to be fair to him, he did
some excellent work in the trade sphere. Some of his
agriculture work questionable, and I'll throw that at him next,
but certainly on trade. It's nice to hear you say
some nice things about him. Hey, I don't know whether
you're going to go back to bed. It's four point
thirty or court to five in India at the moment.
Thanks for getting out of bed to chat to us.
(08:14):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
It's tracere Jamie. I'm in the middle of Delhi, so
otherwise I've gone that some cows I don't know necessarily me.
But thanks for having me on and see you when
we're back.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Good on you, Todd McLay there
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