The Country 01/05/25: Jane Smith talks to Jamie Mackay

We chat with a North Otago farmer and award-winning environmentalist. She says (from a snow-clad hill) there’s never been a better time for New Zealand to come out of the “Climate Change closet”.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
But let's kick it off with Jane Smith. Jane, has
the rain made its way down from Canterbury to North Otago.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Good afternoon, Jamie. Just a very cold socialist wind blowing.
We shouldn't be surprised at the first to May today.
And you snow on the Cacinoy Hills behind me, Jamie,
So you have no surprise? Is it? The mate?

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Know?

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Isn't it? How much airtime the weather and the sort
of the alarmist I guess outcry on the weather gets
these days, Janie. But yep, just business as usual, really
May the first?

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Well, Jane, you're a hard hearted woman because look in
Wellington it is a rare red level wind warning with
a possible threat to life. So surely that's worth shouting
from the rooftops.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh absolutely, Jamie. I guess in this day and age
of communication around whether it is a really high level.
But I think in terms of whether events have always happened,
and I think there's never been a bit of time
for New Zealand. And I'm not just talking today, but
to be talking about, you know, coming out of the
climate change closet and actually forging her own way, and
there's been a lot of discussion, and I know my

(01:01):
local councilor Jim Hopkins mentioned this yesterday around the Paris Accord,
and we seem to be asking the wrong question, Jamie.
It isn't should we exit from the Paris Agreement. The
real question is when should we? And we need to
show some leadership and the global livestock sector is actually
looking to New Zealand to do that. So we either
exit now or in two to three years when the

(01:22):
whole thing collapses and we've wasted time, money, focus and
resources that we don't actually have. And so I just
thinking this morning, Nikola willis I actually found you are
one point one billion. You need to balance the budget
work before breakfast this morning simply by exiting this This,
I guess fiscal folly. Jamie.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
What about the other way that they could get one
point one billion is by ditching the key we say,
a subsidy. What do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, it's interesting, Jamie. I mean it's surely all of
these things should be means tested. And you look at
the same thing with superannuation, which I know is really
harsh when you pay tax or your life, but surely
directing the money to the best possible place is the
best best way to do that. And you know, again
we seem to be spending all of this money. We've
got potentially up for twenty four billion dollars in the

(02:12):
next five years for net zero. That's twelve thousand household
and a country that can't afford its own healthcare. And
you know, Jamie, on insect Day on I was standing
at the dawn service and it hit me, and it
has done it before on Inset Day, that we've really
let down our forebearers. You know, they fought for the
rights of an innovative, independent thinking country and now we
seem to be scared to say the wrong thing and

(02:33):
be sanitized with everything that we say. So you know,
we've got a real leadership role to play here. And
actually we shouldn't be apologizing for the fact that our
admission's profile is you know, our gross emissions are do
have a high proportion of natural biogenic commissions. Actually we
should be really proud of that, and you know our
sector has a peace and apologize for that. We actually

(02:54):
what we should be saying is goodness, mate, this is
actually really great news. We can actually forge ahead and
forged a different pathway and because I guess the thing
is Jamie Ill called it a fiscal folly before, but
it's actually economic espionage if we carry on the same pathway.
And the National Party seem to have sort of a

(03:14):
I guess a lobotomy over this as soon as they
entered the big blue tartess in Wellington. They're not allowed
to speak out about this, but the neat effect of
carrying on with net zero high food costs for everyone,
high electricity electricity costs, and more intensive farming, and it
was really interesting. Jamie the leader of the British Conservative

(03:35):
Party and I think her name is kemmy Bad or not,
she said about a month ago that net zero is impossible,
not only impossible, but a fantasy, fantasy politics. And she
said something like it's built on nothing promised the earth
and is costing it too. So I thought that is fantastic.
Why don't we have politicians and I guess we do.

(03:55):
We have Winston and Shane Jones, but I guess Mark
Cameron seems to be the only other right wing politician
that's allowed to have an opinion on this.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Jennie, I got a text yes that. Unfortunately I haven't
got the text machine set up here in the Queenstown studio,
so I can't go back to it. But just off
the top of my head, it was a text from
someone saying accusing Jim Hopkins and Bryce McKenzie, who was
on earlier in the week from Groundswell, as being boomers
and they were going to sell us, you know, down

(04:24):
the road basically. And of course the argument, the counter
argument to what you're saying, Jane Smith, is always what
about Nessleigh and Ann they demand a low carbon footprint
product or zero carbon. I'm not quite sure how you
get to zero carbon. I can't see it happening myself
by twenty fifty, but that the argument is if they

(04:45):
can't get it from us, they're going to go elsewhere.
I'm not sure where that elsewhere is.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
By the way, it's such a lane and civid line
that just gets rolled out, doesn't this, And you know,
we're actually really sick of that, that we're the solution,
not the problem, and we need to forward your own way.
And again we've got country's livestock countries saying that that
we're actually looking to New Zealand to do that, because actually,
when you calculate methane correctly, and there's a very orthodo
docs IPCC reviewed way to do that. We actually realize

(05:13):
that without even taking our sequestration into account, which by
the way is fifty two percent of our land mass,
we are absolutely better than carbon zero. We are carbon positive.
And you know, my twelve year old could draw the
emissions trajutory and it only goes one way, and that's downwards.
So we should be really pushing this forward if only
would spend the time and money or just the time

(05:35):
actually to actually promote that instead of saying bowing down
and for nissle and denying. I mean, that's just such
an it's just a mis nimo. It just seems absolute ridiculous.
Show them out trajectory and low input, low impact, free
range farming, because actually the way that we're going at
the moment, we're trying to turn ourselves into a sort
of a quasi Europe minus the subsidies, by the way,

(05:58):
with pills and potions and methane vacks that are just
the trojan horse for again intensifications. So do we want
our livestock on their hell's free range, as I said,
or do we want to become one big feed lot
with pine trees on the hells, Jamie, because you know,
we're losing a million stock units of a year at
the moment, and we're losing, ironically to pine trees, when

(06:18):
we've also got ninety thousand heap das of wolding pines
increasing each year. So what do we want feed lots
and pine trees? Absolutely not. So again with some courageous
conversations around.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
This, are you suggesting are you suggesting we let the
wild and pines go?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Absolutely not, Jamie. And that's a total disaster. And anyone
that's seen you look at some of those you know,
really dry areas through the McKinsey country at the moment,
I mean, that's been a disgrace to see that there
are there's been some a GISs, big potentially big pine
tree plantations going into those areas that are already a

(06:55):
sitting duck or already obsepted by molding pines. So those areas,
even if they use pine trees that won't spread, so
certain species of pine trees, they are absolutely the environment
that will be sitting up for further wolding pines because
of the seed in the ground. So those areas too,
you look up the top of the Hakkatara Mere Valley
are very very a dry area but it's got sustainable irrigation.

(07:18):
But you put upon more pine trees and they're plus
more wolding pines and that's a disaster waiting to happen.
So not sure where Environment Canterbury and the district councils
are in this, but they are just missing in action
and have failed to see the bigger picture, Joey, because
again there's no way back from this.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
All right, a final comment from me on this in
emissions target reductions and all that sort of stuff. If
nineteen ninety Jones Smith, this kind of the year, we
put the peg into the sand and we're measuring increases
since then. There are no more bovines on the planet
now than there were in nineteen ninety. The only differences

(07:52):
there are more human beings. We're burning more fossil fus fuels.
Surely the answer is.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Simple, absolutely, Jamie. But again it seems through a conversation
we can't have and it doesn't matter whether you use
nineteen ninety Kyoto or two thousand and five Paris or
twenty seventeen zero Carvenet, since two thousand and five were
in terms of new Zealand flatlining, but in terms of
the world only four percent of their missions are also
human induced as well, Jamie. So the end of the day,

(08:19):
isn't it about resilience? So adapting with the climate. The
climate's always changed, otherwise we'd still be in the ice age,
and so adapting and being resilient and putting our money
in our mouth where the actual issues are, Jamie, and
capture those opportunities.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Are you out in the Miamis Saturday morning?

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Wow? Blair actually goes missing connection for about a week
actually during Dutch sitting a heads south, so someone's got
to keep the GDP rolling and keep the farm running.
But the kids and I usually go out and stalk
a few ponds. Dutch sheitting some of a massive messive
thing in Northicago, to be fair, because we usually have
pretty dry ponds at this time of year. But there
are water in the ponds and there are ducks around,
so I'm sure we'll we'll go and find some Jamie.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, you scare them off those ponds for the other
shooters in the North Otaga region. Jane Smith, thank you
very much for your time.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Thanks Jenning