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May 13, 2025 7 mins

The Prime Minister responds to criticism that he has yet to visit China, and ponders Trump’s latest tariff move. We also discuss why we should stay in the Paris Agreement and whether we’re flogging the family silverware to pay for NZ Superannuation.

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wednesday's on The Country, The Big Guy the PM kicks
off the show. Here's a question Christopher Luxen from our
Shanghai based correspondent Hunter McGregor on yesterday's show, He's disappointed
that you haven't been or fronted up in China yet
with a trade delegation.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Why not, Well, I just say, watched the Space. It's
imminent as a trip to China. It's something I've been
looking forward to doing for a long time. It's obviously country.
In my former life with Unilever and in New Zealana,
did a lot of business in as well, and it's
a really important relationship for us, and I think there's
huge opportunity in trade for us to continue to deepen

(00:37):
up those connections in China. So I'm really looking forward
to taking a great delegation to China. It'll be announced
very shortly we do. The announcements is pretty close to
the time because of for security reasons, for different reasons
for the different president and Premier of China as much
as for me and so to watch the space.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
As Trump would say, it'll be a great delegation, a
beautiful delegation. At the beginning of the end of Trump's
tariffs or is that swishful thinking from me?

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oh, look, I think he's campaigned very strongly in the
campaign around tariff is an idea you're obviously seeing America.
You use it in a way that they want to
to advance their interests. You know. The good news for
New Zealand is that, you know, there's no country that's
better off than New Zealand at this point. And actually
our expectation our exporters when I check him with them

(01:25):
each week, I check him with quite a few of
them each every week to see how it's all going.
They just see still huge opportunity in North America. So
you know, we keep monitoring it. We've got our officials
talking to the government administration. Todd mcclay's due to meet
with the Trade Secretary very next month as well and
have a good conversation with him there at his meeting,
and so yeah, so look, we keep monitoring it really closely.

(01:47):
But for us, it's about New Zealand. We've got huge opportunity.
We've got rapidly growing middle classes, we've got great products
to sell to the world. We've just got to get
out and follow our own plan.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know, how we have trouble getting you places on
our air force planes. Has any kind of Middle Eastern
country with the dodgy human rights record offered you an airplane,
even a Cessna, it might get you there on time.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Oh look, Jamie, I really appreciate your help with the
airplane situation. But look that hasn't been and off of
that's been executed to us. Will continue battling away using
what we've got.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Now there's a ground swell no pun intended out there
to get us out of Paris now. It's coming from
the likes of ground Swell, methane science, accord enz Farming
one of the biggest social media platforms for rural New
Zealand behind the country of course, what do you say
to those farmers? Why should they stay in there? Because
you're Northland MP Grant mcnational McCullum has taken a pasting

(02:48):
on this show for standing up for Paris.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, well look, I mean, you may not like it
to hear this, because it's very easy to dump to
simplistic solutions, right or what you think is a simplistic solution,
But just take a step back and think about it.
I mean, and this is what I hear from farmers
up and down the country, and they understand this. I'm
acting brutally in New Zealand's national interests. I don't want
to punish farmers. Pulling us out of Paris would punish
farmers a big time, because I'm telling you right now,

(03:12):
the large multinationals, many that are as big as New
Zealand as a country, we just say now I'm looking
for an excuse to get out of that New Zealand
product and get rid of it. And I can tell
you many countries. I'm thinking about, many European I know
we'd love nothing more than to see New Zealand dairy products,
red meat and everything kicked off the shelves. And they've
used that as a nontower barrier to essentially do that.

(03:33):
So it's in New Zealand's national interests. I'm not there
to punish. I don't want to punish farmers. We're not
sending production offshore. We are doing we are acting. It's
in our brutal national interests to be part of that
agreement because I'm telling you, and go talk to people
who know what will happen is you can sit there
and say, oh, this is this is the right solution.

(03:54):
What and he say, yeah, well great when we lose
a whole bunch of distribution in Europe and other parts
of the world because we're pulled out. And I tell
you countries, there are countries that we compete with that
would love nothing more than to put a product from
the Netherlands, from Denmark all through Western Europe rather than
have New Zealand product there. We just grew trade with

(04:15):
Western Europe by a billion dollars in the last twelve months.
We just grew our exports to the UK by twenty
one percent in the last twelve months, and that was
farmers and your underwefe agricultures and a recovery. It's because
we're getting our product out there to the world. And
I'm telling you do that and you'll have a lot
less returns and farming will go down, and that's not great.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
New Zealand will pass an economic milestone in twenty twenty
eight when the government I EU if you're still there
as forecast, to make its first ever withdrawal from the
New Zealand's super fun Prime Minister, are we flogging the
family silverware to pay for an unaffordable age of eligibility
for national super it would appear to me we are.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, you know how we feel about it as national.
You know, the reality is every ten years New Zealander's
average life expectancy has been going up I think over
over a year and a bit. So we think that's
why it makes sense. We've said that for a long
period of time. Bill English said that for a long
period of time we need to raise the average age
of super You know very strongly that in a coalition government,
New Zealand First has no support for that proposal. In fact,

(05:20):
Labor didn't I think support that proposal last time last
year as well. So you know, the reality is we
think it makes sense. New Zealanders are living longer, they're
living healthier our lives and actually lifting that age of
superannuation would be a good thing. It will continue to
advocate for that if we can do that in a
future great agreement, we'd love to do that. In the meantime,
we have a piece of legislation that says if New

(05:42):
Zealand Superannuation needs support, you've got to make withdrawals from
the superfund. So yes, it sort of bounces around with
some withdraws and contributions, but actually from twenty thirty one onwards.
Projections show that withdrawals from the super fund are actually
expected in each and every year, and those withdrawals are
made so that that then goes to cover the cost

(06:02):
as you say, of the New Zewn superannuation schemes, that
the taxpayers don't face that full cost each year. So
we have reached that tipping point. But you're right, I mean,
I think that's a great reason for why we you know,
we've tried to have the conversation before, but this is
the reality of it. It's getting to a place where
in twenty thirty one, yep, we have to make those.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, but I mean Prime Minister was, all due respect,
why don't you just tell onstant to start off, because
he's not likely to cuddle up to Labor to party
Maori and the Greens.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Now, well, we'll have to see, because I mean, that'll
be the comp you know, we will advocate for that
in a future government from twenty twenty six on, once
we'll go to the market, you know, go to the
electric with that policy again. Labor opposed it, you know
New Zealand first opposed it, so you know, because of
the politics of it, and I just think that's not
You've got to make some tough decisions, and the right

(06:48):
decision is actually say yep, average life expects is increasing.
It makes complete sense to lift it two years. We
can do it in a sensible kind of way, and
the cost of the system is getting increasingly unaffordable.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Watch the space. Prime Minister, thanks for your time.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
As always, Thanks Jamie, have a great week.
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