June 8, 2025 • 34 mins
This special bonus episode of Drench Wise Farm Smart, brought to you by Zolvix Plus from Elanco, dives into new research findings from a joint PGG Wrightson and PGGW Seeds trial, exploring how crops can significantly help manage worm burdens, support growth rates and reduce drench reliance.
The Country’s Rowena Duncum is joined by Elanco’s Colin McKay and one of the team behind this exciting research – Dr Jason Leslie BVSc from PGG Wrightson’s Technical team.
It’s a valuable listen for anyone wanting to farm smarter and stay on top of roundworm management.
Zolvix Plus for Sheep and Cattle is registered pursuant to the ACVM Act 1997, number A011107. Always read and follow label instructions. Elanco and the diagonal bar logo are trademarks of Elanco or its affiliates.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Drench Wise Farm Smart with Zolvix Plus from Ilanco, powered
by the Country.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Well, Hello and welcome into the special bonus edition of
Drenchwise Farm Smart in association with Zolvix Plus from Alanko.
We're looking at experiences managing roundworm from the front line
now today though we're doing something a little different, something
really hot off the press. We are going to be
diving into some new research findings from a joint PGW
(00:28):
and PGW Seeds trial exploring how crops can significantly manage
worm burdens, support growth rates, and reduce drinch reliance. So
I've had a snack peek into some of these findings.
Not gonna lie, they are pretty cool. It fits perfectly
with our campaign theme drench Wise Farm Smart, so that's
pretty exciting too. In fact, it fits so perfectly that's
(00:51):
why we're creating this.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Extra podcast episode to cover it.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm Rowena Duncan, by the way, we're real Weed at
mz ME and as he has been for the past
few episodes in Back the Fast past four episodes, my
trusty sidekick and industry veteran from Alanko, Colin Mackai, is
with me once again.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hello, Colin.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Good morning, row and.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Joining us today as our expert in the field. One
of the people behind the research we're going to be
looking at today Jason Leslie from PGG writs AND's technical team.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Welcome Jason morning, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
No great to have you with us, and now we're
going to get started by finding out a bit about
you first.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Then we're going to look at your research.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
And you grew up on a sheep and beef and
deer farm in South Canterbury.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
What brought you from there to here?
Speaker 5 (01:42):
Yeah, fears ago, I guess yep. It was probably the
early early days of the dear industry and watching what
the vets did when they came out out to our
property got me thinking back in the eighties the farming
industry was gone through a tough time, so my father
(02:05):
sort of said, look wider than the farm gate for opportunities.
So yeah, that was probably the basis for having a crack.
And then the vet school and here we are thirty
odd years later.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Where have you.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Worked during your career?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
You and I'm not trying to say you've gone around away,
but I know vets do kind of get experience in
different areas.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Yeah, Yeah, so I did the five years at Messy
and then I was very lucky to get my first
job and a great practice there in Central Hawk's Bay,
and I took her out a next practice sheep beef
beer predominantly practice and a great, great first job. Got
(02:49):
exposed to a lot of different things there, and then,
like most kiwis, put a backpack on the back and
headed overseas and was lucky enough to work in a
trade that I trained for, so took advantage of that
in the localing scene in the UK, and yeah, I
(03:11):
actually enjoyed I enjoyed surgery. So I had a crack
at small animals side of the ventnory profession and was
over in the UK for about five years, and then
came back back to New Zealand and worked in a
few different practices around christ Church, but drifted back into
(03:33):
production animals. That's sort of my happy place, I guess,
I'm deep down a frustrated farmer, small block of land
in the south. Yeah, I worked worked in Canterbury here
and mainly actually dairy practice, but in the practices I
was also had significant cheat and beef client bases, and
(03:57):
then sort of stepped side ways out of clinical practice.
Ended did some time with the pharmaceutical company MST Animal
Health and the technical advisor, and then came on board
YSPG Wrights and about seven and a half years ago
and the technical team here, and they're all supplies side
of the business. And I guess you know that's probably
(04:20):
an educational role to put a label on it. We're
part of the rows to educate our staff, but also
help educate our clients and get them to work through
and get better productivity on farm. That's a big chunk
of what I do. And then also keeping abreast to
what's going on in the industry and working on projects
(04:45):
that may help the industry and our clients moving forward.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And of course the research that you've been part of,
as I mentioned, aligns really perfectly with what we've been
trying to highlight in this podcast series, the need to
take a smarter approach to para site control. So what
I'm going to do now is actually Colin's going to
take it from here. We're going to swap rolls. I'm
going to move to the trusting sidekick and Colin, you're
(05:09):
going to talk us through what we're seeing on farm.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Oh. Thanks, I'm really looking forward to being black header
rather than.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Balder nice nice enjoy, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I will, thank you. Jason. Now, you've got a very
broad experience and across having multiple viewpoints on the whole
issue of Ramwin parasite control, and it's been something that's
been talked about for forty years as being a threat
to the industry, and it would seem that that threat
(05:40):
is finally being realized. With some estimates it is suggesting
that up to fifty percent of sheep farms have triple
drench resistant parasites on them. We're starting to see there
and increase in the number of young kettle systems with
significant triple drench resistance. And the obvious thing is what
(06:03):
what is the biggest impact you see in your broad
experience or the likely the biggest impact of those resistant
parasites on farms.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Yeah, yeah, So I guess you're exactly right where the
train that's been coming through the tunnel for forty years,
and yeah, we're there. It's right on top of us
as you as you've described, and we are actually seen
in all their different systems, but particularly the modern farming
(06:34):
systems where we have large numbers of younger animals at
high stocking rates on pasture just facing all of worms.
And amongst that all of worms is quite a few
of them can't be killed by chemicals, and so we're
seeing all the the impacts of heavy loading of parasites
(06:57):
in the gap which we were almost stepped back forty
years to the days where you lose stock with worms.
I've had phone calls over the last couple of years
where animals are actually dying of wombs on fants, so
you know, it's almost gone full circle. I guess to
answer your question.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Yeah right, I guess you're an old guy such as myself.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Hey, hey, hey, let's not be ageist. Guys experienced. Your
experienced is what Colin's trying to say here.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
You're an experienced person such as myself there, Jason, and
I guess from a farmer's perspective, if you go back
in history, a lot of the advice given changes and
becomes contradictory to that was given previously. Like it used
to be drench and put your animals onto clean pasture.
Now we have to think about operating trying to manage
(07:56):
worms in refuge here rather than drenching onto clean pasture,
which we used to rotate drenches and then it becomes
used combination drencher. So I guess if you were standing
back on a on a as a livestock farmer and
you're looking to control round wins, the easy default would
have been to say, you just tell me which drench
(08:16):
do I use? And that's not really where we need
to be now, is it.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
No? No, And you're right, hindsight's a beautiful finan We
look at those things you've just mentioned. At the time
the advice seemed to be the preactivedvice, but then as
time has moved on, we questioned that advice, particularly about
that drenching ontocoening parties sort of philosophy. So I guess
(08:45):
what I've seen, and as you pointed out, I'm getting
longer in the tooth farmers at the cornerstone to our
philosophy of parasite management has been drench to drench, gun
ingrained and farmers DNA. Well, the whole industry's DNA. I
should say. You know, you almost see farmers in anyone
(09:07):
getting a nervous twitch if they've gone too long with
our drenching sheet. And I've heavily relied on the development
of new chemical groups and new drenches. You know, I
still hear the scenarios. Oh well, you guys will will
come out with a new a new container or a
different drench and we carry on doing things. So unfortunately
(09:32):
that's not happening. You know, what we've got is what
we've got in the drench families, and as Colin mentioned,
we've got significant problems with triple drench resistance on a
lot of farms. So three of the five drench families
are failing us. And you know, the novel drenches are
actually over a decade old and respects to being in
(09:54):
the marketplace and are being used more and more. So
we fundamentally have to change the way we look at
parasite management. And I guess my philosophy is drenches are
still important and they must be effective. But I come
from the strategy of we must manage worm challenge. How
(10:15):
do we go about that in the farm system with
things that farmers can do and are doing, but put
more focus on on that to try and lower overall
lable worm challenge on the farm so that we can
have the potential to use a lot less stress drench
(10:36):
in systems and that hopefully by slowing down the use
of drench in the right class of stock at the
right time that hopefully can slow down the failure of drenches, right.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
That's yeah, that's where the industry as certainly approaching. And
Jason and you know that's your study. This stuff you
conduct looked at the benefits of using crops or certain
crops to provide I guess, high quality feed for lambs
so that they don't need to hang around as long,
but also feed which doesn't have larval contamination on it
(11:16):
or worm contamination on it, and which has a real
benefit to those lambs. You just like to give us
a bit of a run through the work you did
or were revolved with.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Sorry, yeah, so I guess I came from why did
we look at doing this work? It was unfortunately, as
you can probably grasp in the first few minutes of
this discussion, is it's a bit doom and gloom, and
I wanted to try and come at it and go, well,
(11:49):
try and find some some sort of positive spin on
it for fun, as something practical with positive outcomes that
they can see a way out of this worm issue
entry resistance issue. So that was the y And it's like,
we've got a fantastic resource worm Whites, which is part
of Beef and Land Levy Paid Information and I guess
(12:13):
it's the go to resource in New Zealand for parasite management.
And they have what's called a toolbox, and one of
the tools in the toolbox is the theory of different
foragers potentially hold an advantage of disrupting the larval development stage.
So the immature stages of the worm outside the animals
(12:38):
compare with pasture. Pasture appears to be the almost ultimate
environment for larval stages of round worms to develop. It's
a dense sword. Our pasture creates a microclimate, there's moisture
the air most of the time, and so the development
(12:59):
stages of of the round whims sort of reproduce or
survivability at an optimum. So what I wanted to do
was we have changed a lot of our forage systems
and modern farming over the last few years, and we
didn't really have a data sect to line up with
this therap theoretical concept in the windwhis toolbox. So I
(13:23):
approached our business PGG Rights and Drule Supplies and said, hey,
this is my idea of looking at putting wing lambs
on foragers and looking at the reinfection rate, how long
did it take to getting a new and burden of
worms after effective drinking and compare it with pasta. And
(13:46):
it sort of stemmed from a few different conversations and
I got yarning to one of our colleagues at PGG
Rights and Seeds and they said, well, actually we've got
some lambs on different foragers which are like to piggyback
on that. So reached out to all the people involved
there and Charlotte Westward sort of lead that side of
(14:10):
the equations. So we utilized their commit here Research Farm
as a starting point in the first summer, and also
some smaller blocks of lands in Canterbury and we had
different foragers, so we used a control system of an
established pasture so what I mean by that is pasture
(14:36):
at least a year old and has been grazed by
using lambs in the spring and then shut up so
it could freshen up. And then we purchased store lambs
post winging and brought them into the trial scenario. And
what we did is we used a quarantine drench being Zobak's.
(14:59):
Plus we didn't know the status of these lands that
we were buying. They were just stand a store lambs
in the zone of sort of twenty six to maybe
thirty two kilos, a mixture of crossbreed lambs in down
cross lambs, and so we drenched them and put we
had a control block and then we used We were
(15:19):
looking at different foragers. So the range of foragers we
looked at were for the summer brassicas we chose peloton Rafnobraska,
which is a multi grade brassca system. We also then
looked at secret chickery with clothing mixers and they were
(15:42):
so a new a new spring solen paddock. Of that
we also had ecotained plantain and clovers spring sown. We
had an established relish red clover which is three or
four years old and that had been similar to the pasture,
(16:02):
so using lambs through it in the spring and then
locked up for post winging grazing. And we also had
loosen same system we're using lambs had grazed it through
late spring and then it was shut up and wing
themes put back through it. So they were the sort
of foragers we looked at. Like I say, it ranged
(16:23):
from very restrictive grazing because we wanted to know what
good looked like. So what I meant by that was
we had an area signed with the foragers fenced around
the edge, so all they were eating were the forage.
And then we had more I guess, farmer friendly scenarios,
just your standard paddocks out on a commercial farm. So
(16:44):
we had different mob sizes, different grazing systems off the
foragers and also in different geographic regions. So we had Waikato, Tarora,
Canterbury in South lond spread over two summers. And what
we did is we were measuring post drenching with an
(17:08):
effective quarantine drench the time it took to pick up
the effect of our three larvae come through the body
developed to adults and then start laying eggs. So the
first collection from the mob and basically we identified twenty
(17:30):
animals in each mob and they were our sentinel animals.
So we kept collecting from the same animals on a
regular basis. But mob size is varied from twenty to
thirty animals right up to eight mobs of eight hundred
animals on the bigger commercial paddocks. So we colleped at
day twenty eight and we were looking at mob average
(17:54):
degree accounts and using when wires sort of zone where
they look at the average counts. We were looking at
the moderate level, which was between three and eight hundred
ex programs. We chose an average of five hundred x
program as our cut through rate. So what I mean
(18:14):
by that is we were going to measure on a
regular basis, and when the mob average reached five hundred X,
program would say, hey, we've got a moderate worm burden,
you should do something about it, and would stop the trial.
So we're basically just getting to a point across all
the different foragers to compare back towards our control of pasture.
(18:36):
So what did the results tell us were at day
twenty eight That would be when you would routinely be
considering drenching for the first time after the previous drench,
So four weeks after a drench on a summer preventedive
drench program. So we usured at day twenty eight all
(18:56):
the foragers including grass were under five hundred x program.
We came back a week later and started measuring at
day thirty five, and our established pasture had blown through
the five hundred mark, which supports literature that that is
why we jump in at day twenty eight to try
(19:17):
and manage that eague output from new infections when grazing pasture.
There was a significant jump from the day twenty eight point,
but the rest of the foragers were still under the
five hundred. So we came back at day forty two
and our lusing plots were starting to break through the
(19:40):
five hundred barrier. So the reason for that is these
are big commercial products of Lucian. We had around the
edges of paddock quite a lot of grass, and amongst
the past sorry the Lucien sword were volun tear grasses
(20:00):
and weeds, so there was a significant reservoir there to
harbor L three larvae. And these lands also being weaned,
A lot of them probably hadn't really seen loosing a
lot prior to weaning, if at all, so they focused
on eating the grass around the edges of the paddocks
(20:22):
and amongst them. So hence we sort of got forty
two days on our data set, still longer than the
twenty eight day routine drenching, but maybe not as long
as I thought we would get on LuSE. So I
guess take on point there as weeds and amongst crops,
(20:43):
and what I mean by weeds is volunteer. Grass is
a weed is back to the ultimate environment for L
three larvae. So all of these crops have to be
the predominant. Didn't take of food, you've got alternative species
in your paddock, We're going to get less advantage. I'll
(21:05):
come back to that point. Then we move along and
we got to forty nine days with our established red
clover plot, which was really good on that farm. Ninety
percent of those lands had reached slaughter away at day
forty nine, so they all went on a truck. So
the nutrition impact of the red clover really drove that system,
(21:30):
so that that was a win win there. And then
from the day beyond day forty nine, all our herd mix,
herd mix with clovers and our pelopone rethno systems had
really low counts all the way out to seventy days
on the plots that were grazed in our trial. So
(21:52):
it was showing a great advantage over the grass established paddock.
So it did put a data set that supported the
worm wise principle. Is the wrap up of two years
of looking at it. The take on points for the
farmer is these crops not only hold a significant nutritional
(22:14):
advantage over particularly in the summer dry land situations of
partial when it starts to go brown. So we're getting
way better liveweight game on these crops. We've had high
stocking rates on these crops compared with the baseline established pasture,
so more animals on an area of the farm not
(22:40):
facing many worms at all and consequently not contaminating back
out the back end with the eggs, and those eggs
were going back into the pawdica crop, not on pasture.
So the biggest advantage I see with the summer foragers
is we're able to grow animals quicker, get them out
the gate quicker. They're not facing worms, and they're not
(23:01):
contaminating the rest of your pasture system heading into the
favorable autumn time of year when all the larvae survive
on pasture. So we decontaminate your farm by utilizing these crops.
But also in the caveats, the crops have to be
the majority of the diet. So if we have parts
(23:23):
of the paddockt that are not sewn in the crop
and are just pasture, that will be a reservoir for
L three. So we may not get as long as
you would with a more dominant intake of crops, so
we need to monitor rather than reach for the grench gun.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I'm just going to jump in here, Jason, because that
obviously is two years of research wrapped into to twenty minutes.
Colin has been frantically writing down a whole heap of
questions as you've been chatting that he wants to unpack,
So I'm just going to let him kind of jump
in here and ask some of the things that he wants. Colin,
I hope you can read your own riding there, because
(24:03):
there's a lot of it on the base.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Well, to be fair, Balderick, To be fair, Jason's covered
a lot of the questions I was going to ask.
The number one first one was you know the importance
of that that really effective quarantine drench and setting the
worm burdens to zero. But the thing that struck me
there was because it's a crop, we don't can't assume
(24:25):
that it's worm free, and you know that it's less worms,
but there is always potential for reinfection, and that need
for farmers to monitor lambs on crops for their wine burden.
It is really important, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Yeah, the way I frame it to the farm. Farmers
will go back to that nervous twitch at twenty eight
days for reaching for the drench gun, reach for the sample, pottle. Instead,
hang on a pair of gloves and pick up some
shit and test and see what your baseline worm challenges
at day twenty eight and then make informed decisions with
(25:05):
your paraside advisor around do we hold off and take
another sample. Now that sample might be in seven days,
it might be in fourteen days. There's a whole lot
of other factors that come into play, But what we're
trying to show here is there is potential to spread
out drench intervals, but it requires monitoring.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
That was a really powerful statement for me, Colin. Yeah,
you know, don't just wrench for the drench gun because
the calendar is telling you and that's what you've always
maybe done. There's actually a smarter way of doing it,
which is what this whole series has been about.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Absolutely and just thinking sort of future stuff. Really, the
immediate future is on the for these crop fields. Eventually
they'll go back and to new grass. How do you
manage new grass or manage j A Wimburden that's going
on to new grass potentially, Jason Great question.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
So we didn't use a new, fresh sewn grass as
a forage system in my data set for a very
good reason. And it comes right back to one of
your statements early in the discussion around the advice of
drenching onto clean pasture. If we think about a new,
(26:26):
freshly sign paddock of grass, the intention that was sown
to stay in grass and be grace you know this,
face it. Pasture is the cornerstone of our farm's systems.
But if we use a highly effective drench and drench
into that paddock and we get the odd worm that's
surviving into that new grass paddock, the dominant genetic pool
(26:50):
of worms in that paddock are going to be potentially resistant, okay,
and then that becomes problematic. So we did want to
confuse the messaging around the advantage of these other forage species. Yes,
we used established pasture as our control, but I didn't
(27:10):
want to confuse the messaging. So if we just look
at new grass aside from my trial, the recommendation would
be you do not drench onto that clean grass paddic
you'd want to actually graze it with some undrenched animals
that hadn't If we were going to put lands in
the paddic. They would have to have been at least
(27:30):
twenty one day since their last drench before entering a
new grass paddic, so that we've got hopefully a mixed
bag of worms in there, that we're seeding the new
paddic with refugeer or undreached jews.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, so I just oh sorry, I've just got a
question there around that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
So if you're planning next seasons grazing, you know where
do you start and which questions should you be asking
of your seed rep of everyone around you?
Speaker 5 (27:59):
First and one, there's probably the two main reasons for
considering somemmer forage systems as feed feed feed feed. Okay,
you're usually planning a forage system because you have a
feed deficit or a quality deficit in summer, so that's
usually why you're looking at these forage systems, or as
(28:20):
part of a parsture renovation strategy where you've got to
run out pasture, you put it through a summer forage
system to use that as a tool to clean up
potential the weeds that are in that the weed bank
of a seed that's in the soil, you pass it
through the forest system, use a herberzide regime to get
(28:46):
that paddock prepared to go back into a permanent pasture. Okay,
so they are the two main reasons that farmers are
thinking about these forages. What I want to do is say,
right here is a third thing you should look at.
Some of foragers hold an advantage from parasite reduced parasite
challenge in those paddocks. Let's take advantage of it to
(29:10):
add another layer on the value proposition of summer foragers.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Well, yes, it's really really interesting work, Jason. One thing
I am curious of is is there any work planned
for looking at crops suitable for young kettle systems because
the same drench resistance issues are rapidly appearing and particularly
intensive heather grazing or build beef systems.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Yeah. Yeah, we did look at it in Kettle with
a collaborative work with PG Writs and Seeds. They did
actually were running another sort of trial scenario with young
Kettle on a couple of different forage systems. So we
(29:59):
managed to piggyback off that it was just a small
data set. Similar similar trends and advantages there. But it
was a small data set. So I think we need
to look at on a wider scale like we did
with the sheep model, so that may be something for
the future. But yeah, same concept established pasture versus a
(30:24):
brassica system and chippery system and got similar distance out
of it than we did with So it would appear
on N equals one. So we have to be very
careful here about saying too much. Is it would appear
that crops probably would hold an advantage in the young
(30:46):
cattle system, but yeah, more work to be done. We
are also maybe wanting to look at, you know, crops
at other parts of the in systems to see whether
that helps us as well.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Right, And I guess it comes back to it an
effect of drench used strategically as a big party here,
so you wind up using less drench.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
Yeah, So through the monitoring on a lot of these systems.
So most of these systems were trade lambs, but some
of them were grazing the U lamb replacements and some
of these models we looked at, most of these lambs
only got one drench and then they're on a truck.
So effective inbound bugg or wound challenge, good live work
(31:32):
game out the door.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
And I guess Colin, that's where zelworks plus can come
into the system as well. There's obviously a const associated
with using drench, but if you're having to use less
of it, then that's going to be good for your
bottom line.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Yes, yeah, and it's just really well I think Jason's
really clearly illustrated here. It's that whole farm system or
thinking about parasites almost as a class of stock. You
hit the worms and animals with an effect of drench,
but they also manage the effect of stage on pasture
through offering an environment where they don't thrive and where
(32:09):
animals do thrive eating that pasture, all that forage.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
It honestly is extremely fascinating research, you know, looking at
what it's taken to get it to this point, how
much if it has gone into it, and just beautiful
to actually see research modeled on New Zealand farms with
New Zealand animals in New Zealand systems. It's just absolutely fantastic.
(32:34):
Of course we could carry on with all the different
aspects of it, but there is more information out there.
You can find also more on the Alanco website as well. Jason.
If people want to learn more about this trial and
get in touch where can they find you.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Yeah, so I worked as Rights and Raw Supplies. We
do have information and we are upscilling our stuff on
trial information and we have a farmer fact sheet available
with a trial summary. Yeah. So if anyone's interested, reach
out through their local store network. It's probably the simplest
(33:13):
way of doing it. And asked to maybe get the
information around the summer forage parasite trip.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, absolutely, and of course talk to your local seed expert,
talk to your vet if you're interested in making changes
as well. Look, if you are interested in what you've
heard today, you haven't caught up with the rest of
our podcast series in association with Zolvi's Plus. Of course
it is Drenchwise Farm Smart. Just google that it's up
on the Alanco website as well. Just want to acknowledge
(33:45):
the support of PGG Rights and in making this bonus episode.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
So thank you so much Jason and the team and Colin.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
As always a pleasure to sit alongside Joe. Depending on
who's controlling the microphone, who's controlling the conversation, it has
been a pleasure to be the lead and the sidekick.
I've really enjoyed making this series with you and getting
an industry veteran. We're using that word experienced to sit
alongside me. Thanks so much for your time in every
(34:11):
single episode.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Thank you Roh You've you've always been in control in
this room, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
No, it has been my absolute pleasure. And of course
Zylvis Plus for sheep and cattle as registered pursuant to
the ACVM Act nineteen ninety seven number A zero one
one one zero seven. Always read and follow label instructions. Alanko,
amadiagonalor bar Logo are trademarks of Alanko or its affiliates.
Thank you so much everyone for listening into our Drenchwise
(34:42):
Farm Smart podcast. It has been a pleasure to make
this one for you and help you make better decisions
on farm.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Take here and I will hopefully catch you back soon.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Drench Wise Farm Smart with Zolvis Plus from Ilanco, powered
by the Country
Drench Wise Farm Smart with Zolvix Plus from Ilanco, powered
by the Country.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Well, Hello and welcome into the special bonus edition of
Drenchwise Farm Smart in association with Zolvix Plus from Alanko.
We're looking at experiences managing roundworm from the front line
now today though we're doing something a little different, something
really hot off the press. We are going to be
diving into some new research findings from a joint PGW
(00:28):
and PGW Seeds trial exploring how crops can significantly manage
worm burdens, support growth rates, and reduce drinch reliance. So
I've had a snack peek into some of these findings.
Not gonna lie, they are pretty cool. It fits perfectly
with our campaign theme drench Wise Farm Smart, so that's
pretty exciting too. In fact, it fits so perfectly that's
(00:51):
why we're creating this.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Extra podcast episode to cover it.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm Rowena Duncan, by the way, we're real Weed at
mz ME and as he has been for the past
few episodes in Back the Fast past four episodes, my
trusty sidekick and industry veteran from Alanko, Colin Mackai, is
with me once again.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hello, Colin.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Good morning, row and.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Joining us today as our expert in the field. One
of the people behind the research we're going to be
looking at today Jason Leslie from PGG writs AND's technical team.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Welcome Jason morning, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
No great to have you with us, and now we're
going to get started by finding out a bit about
you first.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Then we're going to look at your research.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
And you grew up on a sheep and beef and
deer farm in South Canterbury.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
What brought you from there to here?
Speaker 5 (01:42):
Yeah, fears ago, I guess yep. It was probably the
early early days of the dear industry and watching what
the vets did when they came out out to our
property got me thinking back in the eighties the farming
industry was gone through a tough time, so my father
(02:05):
sort of said, look wider than the farm gate for opportunities.
So yeah, that was probably the basis for having a crack.
And then the vet school and here we are thirty
odd years later.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Where have you.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Worked during your career?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
You and I'm not trying to say you've gone around away,
but I know vets do kind of get experience in
different areas.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Yeah, Yeah, so I did the five years at Messy
and then I was very lucky to get my first
job and a great practice there in Central Hawk's Bay,
and I took her out a next practice sheep beef
beer predominantly practice and a great, great first job. Got
(02:49):
exposed to a lot of different things there, and then,
like most kiwis, put a backpack on the back and
headed overseas and was lucky enough to work in a
trade that I trained for, so took advantage of that
in the localing scene in the UK, and yeah, I
(03:11):
actually enjoyed I enjoyed surgery. So I had a crack
at small animals side of the ventnory profession and was
over in the UK for about five years, and then
came back back to New Zealand and worked in a
few different practices around christ Church, but drifted back into
(03:33):
production animals. That's sort of my happy place, I guess,
I'm deep down a frustrated farmer, small block of land
in the south. Yeah, I worked worked in Canterbury here
and mainly actually dairy practice, but in the practices I
was also had significant cheat and beef client bases, and
(03:57):
then sort of stepped side ways out of clinical practice.
Ended did some time with the pharmaceutical company MST Animal
Health and the technical advisor, and then came on board
YSPG Wrights and about seven and a half years ago
and the technical team here, and they're all supplies side
of the business. And I guess you know that's probably
(04:20):
an educational role to put a label on it. We're
part of the rows to educate our staff, but also
help educate our clients and get them to work through
and get better productivity on farm. That's a big chunk
of what I do. And then also keeping abreast to
what's going on in the industry and working on projects
(04:45):
that may help the industry and our clients moving forward.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And of course the research that you've been part of,
as I mentioned, aligns really perfectly with what we've been
trying to highlight in this podcast series, the need to
take a smarter approach to para site control. So what
I'm going to do now is actually Colin's going to
take it from here. We're going to swap rolls. I'm
going to move to the trusting sidekick and Colin, you're
(05:09):
going to talk us through what we're seeing on farm.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Oh. Thanks, I'm really looking forward to being black header
rather than.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Balder nice nice enjoy, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
I will, thank you. Jason. Now, you've got a very
broad experience and across having multiple viewpoints on the whole
issue of Ramwin parasite control, and it's been something that's
been talked about for forty years as being a threat
to the industry, and it would seem that that threat
(05:40):
is finally being realized. With some estimates it is suggesting
that up to fifty percent of sheep farms have triple
drench resistant parasites on them. We're starting to see there
and increase in the number of young kettle systems with
significant triple drench resistance. And the obvious thing is what
(06:03):
what is the biggest impact you see in your broad
experience or the likely the biggest impact of those resistant
parasites on farms.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Yeah, yeah, So I guess you're exactly right where the
train that's been coming through the tunnel for forty years,
and yeah, we're there. It's right on top of us
as you as you've described, and we are actually seen
in all their different systems, but particularly the modern farming
(06:34):
systems where we have large numbers of younger animals at
high stocking rates on pasture just facing all of worms.
And amongst that all of worms is quite a few
of them can't be killed by chemicals, and so we're
seeing all the the impacts of heavy loading of parasites
(06:57):
in the gap which we were almost stepped back forty
years to the days where you lose stock with worms.
I've had phone calls over the last couple of years
where animals are actually dying of wombs on fants, so
you know, it's almost gone full circle. I guess to
answer your question.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Yeah right, I guess you're an old guy such as myself.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Hey, hey, hey, let's not be ageist. Guys experienced. Your
experienced is what Colin's trying to say here.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
You're an experienced person such as myself there, Jason, and
I guess from a farmer's perspective, if you go back
in history, a lot of the advice given changes and
becomes contradictory to that was given previously. Like it used
to be drench and put your animals onto clean pasture.
Now we have to think about operating trying to manage
(07:56):
worms in refuge here rather than drenching onto clean pasture,
which we used to rotate drenches and then it becomes
used combination drencher. So I guess if you were standing
back on a on a as a livestock farmer and
you're looking to control round wins, the easy default would
have been to say, you just tell me which drench
(08:16):
do I use? And that's not really where we need
to be now, is it.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
No? No, And you're right, hindsight's a beautiful finan We
look at those things you've just mentioned. At the time
the advice seemed to be the preactivedvice, but then as
time has moved on, we questioned that advice, particularly about
that drenching ontocoening parties sort of philosophy. So I guess
(08:45):
what I've seen, and as you pointed out, I'm getting
longer in the tooth farmers at the cornerstone to our
philosophy of parasite management has been drench to drench, gun
ingrained and farmers DNA. Well, the whole industry's DNA. I
should say. You know, you almost see farmers in anyone
(09:07):
getting a nervous twitch if they've gone too long with
our drenching sheet. And I've heavily relied on the development
of new chemical groups and new drenches. You know, I
still hear the scenarios. Oh well, you guys will will
come out with a new a new container or a
different drench and we carry on doing things. So unfortunately
(09:32):
that's not happening. You know, what we've got is what
we've got in the drench families, and as Colin mentioned,
we've got significant problems with triple drench resistance on a
lot of farms. So three of the five drench families
are failing us. And you know, the novel drenches are
actually over a decade old and respects to being in
(09:54):
the marketplace and are being used more and more. So
we fundamentally have to change the way we look at
parasite management. And I guess my philosophy is drenches are
still important and they must be effective. But I come
from the strategy of we must manage worm challenge. How
(10:15):
do we go about that in the farm system with
things that farmers can do and are doing, but put
more focus on on that to try and lower overall
lable worm challenge on the farm so that we can
have the potential to use a lot less stress drench
(10:36):
in systems and that hopefully by slowing down the use
of drench in the right class of stock at the
right time that hopefully can slow down the failure of drenches, right.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
That's yeah, that's where the industry as certainly approaching. And
Jason and you know that's your study. This stuff you
conduct looked at the benefits of using crops or certain
crops to provide I guess, high quality feed for lambs
so that they don't need to hang around as long,
but also feed which doesn't have larval contamination on it
(11:16):
or worm contamination on it, and which has a real
benefit to those lambs. You just like to give us
a bit of a run through the work you did
or were revolved with.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Sorry, yeah, so I guess I came from why did
we look at doing this work? It was unfortunately, as
you can probably grasp in the first few minutes of
this discussion, is it's a bit doom and gloom, and
I wanted to try and come at it and go, well,
(11:49):
try and find some some sort of positive spin on
it for fun, as something practical with positive outcomes that
they can see a way out of this worm issue
entry resistance issue. So that was the y And it's like,
we've got a fantastic resource worm Whites, which is part
of Beef and Land Levy Paid Information and I guess
(12:13):
it's the go to resource in New Zealand for parasite management.
And they have what's called a toolbox, and one of
the tools in the toolbox is the theory of different
foragers potentially hold an advantage of disrupting the larval development stage.
So the immature stages of the worm outside the animals
(12:38):
compare with pasture. Pasture appears to be the almost ultimate
environment for larval stages of round worms to develop. It's
a dense sword. Our pasture creates a microclimate, there's moisture
the air most of the time, and so the development
(12:59):
stages of of the round whims sort of reproduce or
survivability at an optimum. So what I wanted to do
was we have changed a lot of our forage systems
and modern farming over the last few years, and we
didn't really have a data sect to line up with
this therap theoretical concept in the windwhis toolbox. So I
(13:23):
approached our business PGG Rights and Drule Supplies and said, hey,
this is my idea of looking at putting wing lambs
on foragers and looking at the reinfection rate, how long
did it take to getting a new and burden of
worms after effective drinking and compare it with pasta. And
(13:46):
it sort of stemmed from a few different conversations and
I got yarning to one of our colleagues at PGG
Rights and Seeds and they said, well, actually we've got
some lambs on different foragers which are like to piggyback
on that. So reached out to all the people involved
there and Charlotte Westward sort of lead that side of
(14:10):
the equations. So we utilized their commit here Research Farm
as a starting point in the first summer, and also
some smaller blocks of lands in Canterbury and we had
different foragers, so we used a control system of an
established pasture so what I mean by that is pasture
(14:36):
at least a year old and has been grazed by
using lambs in the spring and then shut up so
it could freshen up. And then we purchased store lambs
post winging and brought them into the trial scenario. And
what we did is we used a quarantine drench being Zobak's.
(14:59):
Plus we didn't know the status of these lands that
we were buying. They were just stand a store lambs
in the zone of sort of twenty six to maybe
thirty two kilos, a mixture of crossbreed lambs in down
cross lambs, and so we drenched them and put we
had a control block and then we used We were
(15:19):
looking at different foragers. So the range of foragers we
looked at were for the summer brassicas we chose peloton Rafnobraska,
which is a multi grade brassca system. We also then
looked at secret chickery with clothing mixers and they were
(15:42):
so a new a new spring solen paddock. Of that
we also had ecotained plantain and clovers spring sown. We
had an established relish red clover which is three or
four years old and that had been similar to the pasture,
(16:02):
so using lambs through it in the spring and then
locked up for post winging grazing. And we also had
loosen same system we're using lambs had grazed it through
late spring and then it was shut up and wing
themes put back through it. So they were the sort
of foragers we looked at. Like I say, it ranged
(16:23):
from very restrictive grazing because we wanted to know what
good looked like. So what I meant by that was
we had an area signed with the foragers fenced around
the edge, so all they were eating were the forage.
And then we had more I guess, farmer friendly scenarios,
just your standard paddocks out on a commercial farm. So
(16:44):
we had different mob sizes, different grazing systems off the
foragers and also in different geographic regions. So we had Waikato, Tarora,
Canterbury in South lond spread over two summers. And what
we did is we were measuring post drenching with an
(17:08):
effective quarantine drench the time it took to pick up
the effect of our three larvae come through the body
developed to adults and then start laying eggs. So the
first collection from the mob and basically we identified twenty
(17:30):
animals in each mob and they were our sentinel animals.
So we kept collecting from the same animals on a
regular basis. But mob size is varied from twenty to
thirty animals right up to eight mobs of eight hundred
animals on the bigger commercial paddocks. So we colleped at
day twenty eight and we were looking at mob average
(17:54):
degree accounts and using when wires sort of zone where
they look at the average counts. We were looking at
the moderate level, which was between three and eight hundred
ex programs. We chose an average of five hundred x
program as our cut through rate. So what I mean
(18:14):
by that is we were going to measure on a
regular basis, and when the mob average reached five hundred X,
program would say, hey, we've got a moderate worm burden,
you should do something about it, and would stop the trial.
So we're basically just getting to a point across all
the different foragers to compare back towards our control of pasture.
(18:36):
So what did the results tell us were at day
twenty eight That would be when you would routinely be
considering drenching for the first time after the previous drench,
So four weeks after a drench on a summer preventedive
drench program. So we usured at day twenty eight all
(18:56):
the foragers including grass were under five hundred x program.
We came back a week later and started measuring at
day thirty five, and our established pasture had blown through
the five hundred mark, which supports literature that that is
why we jump in at day twenty eight to try
(19:17):
and manage that eague output from new infections when grazing pasture.
There was a significant jump from the day twenty eight point,
but the rest of the foragers were still under the
five hundred. So we came back at day forty two
and our lusing plots were starting to break through the
(19:40):
five hundred barrier. So the reason for that is these
are big commercial products of Lucian. We had around the
edges of paddock quite a lot of grass, and amongst
the past sorry the Lucien sword were volun tear grasses
(20:00):
and weeds, so there was a significant reservoir there to
harbor L three larvae. And these lands also being weaned,
A lot of them probably hadn't really seen loosing a
lot prior to weaning, if at all, so they focused
on eating the grass around the edges of the paddocks
(20:22):
and amongst them. So hence we sort of got forty
two days on our data set, still longer than the
twenty eight day routine drenching, but maybe not as long
as I thought we would get on LuSE. So I
guess take on point there as weeds and amongst crops,
(20:43):
and what I mean by weeds is volunteer. Grass is
a weed is back to the ultimate environment for L
three larvae. So all of these crops have to be
the predominant. Didn't take of food, you've got alternative species
in your paddock, We're going to get less advantage. I'll
(21:05):
come back to that point. Then we move along and
we got to forty nine days with our established red
clover plot, which was really good on that farm. Ninety
percent of those lands had reached slaughter away at day
forty nine, so they all went on a truck. So
the nutrition impact of the red clover really drove that system,
(21:30):
so that that was a win win there. And then
from the day beyond day forty nine, all our herd mix,
herd mix with clovers and our pelopone rethno systems had
really low counts all the way out to seventy days
on the plots that were grazed in our trial. So
(21:52):
it was showing a great advantage over the grass established paddock.
So it did put a data set that supported the
worm wise principle. Is the wrap up of two years
of looking at it. The take on points for the
farmer is these crops not only hold a significant nutritional
(22:14):
advantage over particularly in the summer dry land situations of
partial when it starts to go brown. So we're getting
way better liveweight game on these crops. We've had high
stocking rates on these crops compared with the baseline established pasture,
so more animals on an area of the farm not
(22:40):
facing many worms at all and consequently not contaminating back
out the back end with the eggs, and those eggs
were going back into the pawdica crop, not on pasture.
So the biggest advantage I see with the summer foragers
is we're able to grow animals quicker, get them out
the gate quicker. They're not facing worms, and they're not
(23:01):
contaminating the rest of your pasture system heading into the
favorable autumn time of year when all the larvae survive
on pasture. So we decontaminate your farm by utilizing these crops.
But also in the caveats, the crops have to be
the majority of the diet. So if we have parts
(23:23):
of the paddockt that are not sewn in the crop
and are just pasture, that will be a reservoir for
L three. So we may not get as long as
you would with a more dominant intake of crops, so
we need to monitor rather than reach for the grench gun.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I'm just going to jump in here, Jason, because that
obviously is two years of research wrapped into to twenty minutes.
Colin has been frantically writing down a whole heap of
questions as you've been chatting that he wants to unpack,
So I'm just going to let him kind of jump
in here and ask some of the things that he wants. Colin,
I hope you can read your own riding there, because
(24:03):
there's a lot of it on the base.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Well, to be fair, Balderick, To be fair, Jason's covered
a lot of the questions I was going to ask.
The number one first one was you know the importance
of that that really effective quarantine drench and setting the
worm burdens to zero. But the thing that struck me
there was because it's a crop, we don't can't assume
(24:25):
that it's worm free, and you know that it's less worms,
but there is always potential for reinfection, and that need
for farmers to monitor lambs on crops for their wine burden.
It is really important, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Yeah, the way I frame it to the farm. Farmers
will go back to that nervous twitch at twenty eight
days for reaching for the drench gun, reach for the sample, pottle. Instead,
hang on a pair of gloves and pick up some
shit and test and see what your baseline worm challenges
at day twenty eight and then make informed decisions with
(25:05):
your paraside advisor around do we hold off and take
another sample. Now that sample might be in seven days,
it might be in fourteen days. There's a whole lot
of other factors that come into play, But what we're
trying to show here is there is potential to spread
out drench intervals, but it requires monitoring.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
That was a really powerful statement for me, Colin. Yeah,
you know, don't just wrench for the drench gun because
the calendar is telling you and that's what you've always
maybe done. There's actually a smarter way of doing it,
which is what this whole series has been about.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Absolutely and just thinking sort of future stuff. Really, the
immediate future is on the for these crop fields. Eventually
they'll go back and to new grass. How do you
manage new grass or manage j A Wimburden that's going
on to new grass potentially, Jason Great question.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
So we didn't use a new, fresh sewn grass as
a forage system in my data set for a very
good reason. And it comes right back to one of
your statements early in the discussion around the advice of
drenching onto clean pasture. If we think about a new,
(26:26):
freshly sign paddock of grass, the intention that was sown
to stay in grass and be grace you know this,
face it. Pasture is the cornerstone of our farm's systems.
But if we use a highly effective drench and drench
into that paddock and we get the odd worm that's
surviving into that new grass paddock, the dominant genetic pool
(26:50):
of worms in that paddock are going to be potentially resistant, okay,
and then that becomes problematic. So we did want to
confuse the messaging around the advantage of these other forage species. Yes,
we used established pasture as our control, but I didn't
(27:10):
want to confuse the messaging. So if we just look
at new grass aside from my trial, the recommendation would
be you do not drench onto that clean grass paddic
you'd want to actually graze it with some undrenched animals
that hadn't If we were going to put lands in
the paddic. They would have to have been at least
(27:30):
twenty one day since their last drench before entering a
new grass paddic, so that we've got hopefully a mixed
bag of worms in there, that we're seeding the new
paddic with refugeer or undreached jews.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, so I just oh sorry, I've just got a
question there around that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
So if you're planning next seasons grazing, you know where
do you start and which questions should you be asking
of your seed rep of everyone around you?
Speaker 5 (27:59):
First and one, there's probably the two main reasons for
considering somemmer forage systems as feed feed feed feed. Okay,
you're usually planning a forage system because you have a
feed deficit or a quality deficit in summer, so that's
usually why you're looking at these forage systems, or as
(28:20):
part of a parsture renovation strategy where you've got to
run out pasture, you put it through a summer forage
system to use that as a tool to clean up
potential the weeds that are in that the weed bank
of a seed that's in the soil, you pass it
through the forest system, use a herberzide regime to get
(28:46):
that paddock prepared to go back into a permanent pasture. Okay,
so they are the two main reasons that farmers are
thinking about these forages. What I want to do is say,
right here is a third thing you should look at.
Some of foragers hold an advantage from parasite reduced parasite
challenge in those paddocks. Let's take advantage of it to
(29:10):
add another layer on the value proposition of summer foragers.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Well, yes, it's really really interesting work, Jason. One thing
I am curious of is is there any work planned
for looking at crops suitable for young kettle systems because
the same drench resistance issues are rapidly appearing and particularly
intensive heather grazing or build beef systems.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Yeah. Yeah, we did look at it in Kettle with
a collaborative work with PG Writs and Seeds. They did
actually were running another sort of trial scenario with young
Kettle on a couple of different forage systems. So we
(29:59):
managed to piggyback off that it was just a small
data set. Similar similar trends and advantages there. But it
was a small data set. So I think we need
to look at on a wider scale like we did
with the sheep model, so that may be something for
the future. But yeah, same concept established pasture versus a
(30:24):
brassica system and chippery system and got similar distance out
of it than we did with So it would appear
on N equals one. So we have to be very
careful here about saying too much. Is it would appear
that crops probably would hold an advantage in the young
(30:46):
cattle system, but yeah, more work to be done. We
are also maybe wanting to look at, you know, crops
at other parts of the in systems to see whether
that helps us as well.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Right, And I guess it comes back to it an
effect of drench used strategically as a big party here,
so you wind up using less drench.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
Yeah, So through the monitoring on a lot of these systems.
So most of these systems were trade lambs, but some
of them were grazing the U lamb replacements and some
of these models we looked at, most of these lambs
only got one drench and then they're on a truck.
So effective inbound bugg or wound challenge, good live work
(31:32):
game out the door.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
And I guess Colin, that's where zelworks plus can come
into the system as well. There's obviously a const associated
with using drench, but if you're having to use less
of it, then that's going to be good for your
bottom line.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Yes, yeah, and it's just really well I think Jason's
really clearly illustrated here. It's that whole farm system or
thinking about parasites almost as a class of stock. You
hit the worms and animals with an effect of drench,
but they also manage the effect of stage on pasture
through offering an environment where they don't thrive and where
(32:09):
animals do thrive eating that pasture, all that forage.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
It honestly is extremely fascinating research, you know, looking at
what it's taken to get it to this point, how
much if it has gone into it, and just beautiful
to actually see research modeled on New Zealand farms with
New Zealand animals in New Zealand systems. It's just absolutely fantastic.
(32:34):
Of course we could carry on with all the different
aspects of it, but there is more information out there.
You can find also more on the Alanco website as well. Jason.
If people want to learn more about this trial and
get in touch where can they find you.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Yeah, so I worked as Rights and Raw Supplies. We
do have information and we are upscilling our stuff on
trial information and we have a farmer fact sheet available
with a trial summary. Yeah. So if anyone's interested, reach
out through their local store network. It's probably the simplest
(33:13):
way of doing it. And asked to maybe get the
information around the summer forage parasite trip.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, absolutely, and of course talk to your local seed expert,
talk to your vet if you're interested in making changes
as well. Look, if you are interested in what you've
heard today, you haven't caught up with the rest of
our podcast series in association with Zolvi's Plus. Of course
it is Drenchwise Farm Smart. Just google that it's up
on the Alanco website as well. Just want to acknowledge
(33:45):
the support of PGG Rights and in making this bonus episode.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
So thank you so much Jason and the team and Colin.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
As always a pleasure to sit alongside Joe. Depending on
who's controlling the microphone, who's controlling the conversation, it has
been a pleasure to be the lead and the sidekick.
I've really enjoyed making this series with you and getting
an industry veteran. We're using that word experienced to sit
alongside me. Thanks so much for your time in every
(34:11):
single episode.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Thank you Roh You've you've always been in control in
this room, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
No, it has been my absolute pleasure. And of course
Zylvis Plus for sheep and cattle as registered pursuant to
the ACVM Act nineteen ninety seven number A zero one
one one zero seven. Always read and follow label instructions. Alanko,
amadiagonalor bar Logo are trademarks of Alanko or its affiliates.
Thank you so much everyone for listening into our Drenchwise
(34:42):
Farm Smart podcast. It has been a pleasure to make
this one for you and help you make better decisions
on farm.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Take here and I will hopefully catch you back soon.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Drench Wise Farm Smart with Zolvis Plus from Ilanco, powered
by the Country
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