July 29, 2025 • 8 mins
We ask the Prime Minister about farmer confidence and waving PayWave surcharges. He also talks about his frosty reception at netball’s ANZ Premiership grand final on Sunday.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Prime Minister Christapher Luxen joins us on the country.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Prime Minister, welcome on.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Did you spend a bit of time on just on
this realities of farm life?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Did you spend a bit of time as a youngster
on the land?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I had a little I had an uncle who actually
had as uncles that were in horse racing, actually in
CHRISTI channel with Smelton back in the day, and so
I'd go down from Auckland and August school holidays and
go spend a bit of time a couple of weeks
with them, which is always great. So yeah, I think
it's quite different now. I don't think kids across in
the cities actually have connections to rural communities as much
as they once did. But I also have this view
(00:34):
that I don't think the rural urban divides as big
as everyone makes out at times when you see shows
like Nardia's Farm and Clarkson's Farm and Country Calendar being
so successful and as people in the city's watching those shows,
and I think it's a huge appreciation for what our
farmers are doing. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I've always had a bit of a view that the
rural urban divide isn't is quite as big as the
rural divide, which is but thankfully I think we're making
progress on that funt.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I just think that Brook van Beld got a bit
of a hard time with.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
A pea jacket to chat around the you know, the
dangers of collecting the eggs. I know we shouldn't take
it lightly because things like your four wheel motorbikes and
things like that, there are serious issues.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
But yeah, I thought there was a little slightly.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah. I think the big thing there is she's, you know,
she's got to find the balance of we've got to
make sure we've got smart, sensible regulation. Obviously that keeps
people safe, but we also know that there's been a
whole heap of over compliance that's actually adding huge costs
and that's what drives in flesh and it does a
bunch of other things. So it's always trying to find
the balance. So she's got a big review of that
going on. She's looking across all the different sectors of
(01:33):
the economy. I think, you know, she's talked about manufacturing
and farming and you know, construction and other sectors as well.
So yeah, but I know what you mean on the eggs. Yip.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, Christopher, you'll be pretty happy. I guess the farmer
confidence levels are out this weekend and across the dairy
beef lamb sected pretty.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Good, but more challenging the old in the old arable world.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, look, I mean it is there's a few things
going on in that sector and obviously it's tied to
the sectors as well within the rural community. But you
know what was really good is you know, farmer confidence.
That was the most positive school we've seen since twenty seventeen.
I was pleased. You know, it's the highest level of
profitability ever we've seen them farming. Two thirds of far
host reporting that they're going to be profitable and they're
going to and a think court of them increasing production
(02:17):
next year. So and also what I'm interested in also
there is a few of farmers actually reporting stress compared
to last year, so mental health and a much better place,
which is a good thing. And you know, this is
a government genuinely that is trying to stabilize the economy
and get the platform in place for future growth. And
I think you've got a very supportive government for agriculture.
But I mean what's amazing Hamish is that you know,
(02:37):
once again and That's why I think people in the
cities do appreciate agriculture and farming is that it's our
farmers and our growers that are leadings young out of
the recession. We will. If you think about the dairy
exports up sixteen seen, I think meat was up eight.
I think a quarter culture can be for it's seen
great but up nineteen percent, forestry up nine, seafood up two.
So I mean like there's been really good export revenue
(03:00):
that's coming out of the primary sector, which is really good.
And we've just got to keep getting rid of the
red tape for people opening up the new market five
FTAs and things like investment boost which encourage farmers to
invest in new plant and capital and equipment.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Is all good stuff the backbone of the country. Prime
Minister exactly, yeah, exactly, I like it. Hey, the sewer
charge on payWave, I mean this is a right across
the board. It hits is going to hit those small
business own It's pretty hard, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Well. The thing that people maybe not have understood is
the reason why we acted on it this week is
that last week the Commerce Commission came out and actually
reduced the fees that you know, Visa a MasterCard can
charge merchants or businesses, and that was down by about
ninety million dollars. We also know that actually what sometimes
is the sticker on the terminal that is more than
(03:48):
over recovering the actual cost associated with the transaction, to
the tune of about sixty five million dollars what's called
excessive overcharging. So all in all, we're just saying lot,
you know, we got to make sure that all of
that actually goes through to the consumer. And that's you know,
and that's what you see in big businesses. If you
go to the supermarket, you know, people don't add a
(04:08):
surcharge on top. You don't have a search charge for
your energy or electricity costs or other components as well.
So the bottom line is that it's about get getting
rid of it so that actually people know exactly what
they're doing. And also that those transaction costs, we know
that we've pulled those down. They've got to get passed
through to consumers. Are rather than leading to that sort
(04:29):
of excessive overcharging.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Increased directors fees that's been on the news this week.
What drove that is there a need for greater talent,
so to speak.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah, look, I mean the thing that we're looking for
is performance from the public sector. Right, they need to
improve outcomes for news elens. And to help do that
you actually need to get really experienced and attract good
people to come on to public sector boards. The problem
is that the public sector boards are paid so poorly
relative to the private sector boards. Now, we are never
ever going to pay what you get in a company
(05:01):
in a private sector obviously, you know, we probably only
ever get the best to get. Maybe we get to
eighty percent of that if we're lucky. But the basic
thing is that fees haven't mentally moved for a decade,
apart from a very small increase under labor under high inflation.
But if we can get the right people, they then
turn can save us millions or billions of dollars in
public sit spending and get better outcomes from New Zealanders,
which is what we've got to do. So if you
(05:22):
think about a healthcare sector, we spend thirty two billion dollars.
One out of every five dollars of the government spends
is on healthcare. Now, yeah, you know it doesn't if
you get a good quality board on health New Zealand
and you know that can make a huge difference to
making sure that's a better performing organization that's delivering the surgeries,
the rule are in the wait lists and getting more
value for that money that's going into that system, which
(05:44):
is a massive amount of cash. So you know, it's
just making sure that we are you know, we're making
sure that we're never going to be we're private sector
and board directors getting paid, but we've got to be
in a place where we can at least get some
good people to say, Okay, I'll do this as public
service for New Zealand, but it's not so offensive that
it's not worth their time not to do it.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Hard to argue with that.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Okay, one last thing I want to touch on, and
I know you love your sport, but the netball the
other night, I couldn't. I look, I felt for you
that doing sort of thing before. I mean, sometimes is
you know, do you have to have a bit of
a rethink about whether some of those events are worth
being act or or how do you suck?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I look, honestly, like in the in the actual auditorium,
it was fantastic. I was really well receive. People are
very kind to me. There's a couple of people. Yep,
as you'd expect, that's quite normal for politicians moving around
the country, doing town halls, doing public meetings. But I
have to be honest, I think the way it's been
represented is quite different from how it felt inside. I
wasn't I didn't feel aggrieved about that at all. And
(06:45):
it was a very small group of people, and you know,
and I get it, and that's fine, so but no,
so known for me, it was like a fantastic game.
And I wanted to support netball because actually, I think
it's an awesome sport and I think, you know, I
watch all the young girls and moms and their dads
that come along. It's a really family sort of occasion,
and it's a really good event. And and so Amanda
(07:07):
and I've tried to go, so, you know, a netball
game each each year at least to sort of sort
of give our support. So and what was quite cool,
as you know, was obviously tactics who had in one
ended up coming through. And I think that's all good
for football. And you know, it's a sport that's got
some challenges, you know, because if you think about the
growth of female sport in New Zealand. Often it's been
(07:29):
built out off the back of a male code that
then has gone on so crouding huge growth and a
female code. You know, rugby cricket, it's been fantastic to
what we've seen there, and you know netball's trying to
compete with all those other codes and I just think
it's a fantastic game as a.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Result, fantastic promise.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I won't try and compete being a rugby commentator with
being Prime minister. But we're both slow moving targets, aren't we.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
That's the reality of it.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
We've got a great country and we've got to get
in the arena and we've got to get it fixed
and sort of for people. So we've got to keep going, keep.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Going right progress to thank you very much, will be famous.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Take your kit by
Prime Minister Christapher Luxen joins us on the country.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Prime Minister, welcome on.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Did you spend a bit of time on just on
this realities of farm life?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Did you spend a bit of time as a youngster
on the land?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I had a little I had an uncle who actually
had as uncles that were in horse racing, actually in
CHRISTI channel with Smelton back in the day, and so
I'd go down from Auckland and August school holidays and
go spend a bit of time a couple of weeks
with them, which is always great. So yeah, I think
it's quite different now. I don't think kids across in
the cities actually have connections to rural communities as much
as they once did. But I also have this view
(00:34):
that I don't think the rural urban divides as big
as everyone makes out at times when you see shows
like Nardia's Farm and Clarkson's Farm and Country Calendar being
so successful and as people in the city's watching those shows,
and I think it's a huge appreciation for what our
farmers are doing. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I've always had a bit of a view that the
rural urban divide isn't is quite as big as the
rural divide, which is but thankfully I think we're making
progress on that funt.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I just think that Brook van Beld got a bit
of a hard time with.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
A pea jacket to chat around the you know, the
dangers of collecting the eggs. I know we shouldn't take
it lightly because things like your four wheel motorbikes and
things like that, there are serious issues.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
But yeah, I thought there was a little slightly.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah. I think the big thing there is she's, you know,
she's got to find the balance of we've got to
make sure we've got smart, sensible regulation. Obviously that keeps
people safe, but we also know that there's been a
whole heap of over compliance that's actually adding huge costs
and that's what drives in flesh and it does a
bunch of other things. So it's always trying to find
the balance. So she's got a big review of that
going on. She's looking across all the different sectors of
(01:33):
the economy. I think, you know, she's talked about manufacturing
and farming and you know, construction and other sectors as well.
So yeah, but I know what you mean on the eggs. Yip.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, Christopher, you'll be pretty happy. I guess the farmer
confidence levels are out this weekend and across the dairy
beef lamb sected pretty.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Good, but more challenging the old in the old arable world.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, look, I mean it is there's a few things
going on in that sector and obviously it's tied to
the sectors as well within the rural community. But you
know what was really good is you know, farmer confidence.
That was the most positive school we've seen since twenty seventeen.
I was pleased. You know, it's the highest level of
profitability ever we've seen them farming. Two thirds of far
host reporting that they're going to be profitable and they're
going to and a think court of them increasing production
(02:17):
next year. So and also what I'm interested in also
there is a few of farmers actually reporting stress compared
to last year, so mental health and a much better place,
which is a good thing. And you know, this is
a government genuinely that is trying to stabilize the economy
and get the platform in place for future growth. And
I think you've got a very supportive government for agriculture.
But I mean what's amazing Hamish is that you know,
(02:37):
once again and That's why I think people in the
cities do appreciate agriculture and farming is that it's our
farmers and our growers that are leadings young out of
the recession. We will. If you think about the dairy
exports up sixteen seen, I think meat was up eight.
I think a quarter culture can be for it's seen
great but up nineteen percent, forestry up nine, seafood up two.
So I mean like there's been really good export revenue
(03:00):
that's coming out of the primary sector, which is really good.
And we've just got to keep getting rid of the
red tape for people opening up the new market five
FTAs and things like investment boost which encourage farmers to
invest in new plant and capital and equipment.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Is all good stuff the backbone of the country. Prime
Minister exactly, yeah, exactly, I like it. Hey, the sewer
charge on payWave, I mean this is a right across
the board. It hits is going to hit those small
business own It's pretty hard, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Well. The thing that people maybe not have understood is
the reason why we acted on it this week is
that last week the Commerce Commission came out and actually
reduced the fees that you know, Visa a MasterCard can
charge merchants or businesses, and that was down by about
ninety million dollars. We also know that actually what sometimes
is the sticker on the terminal that is more than
(03:48):
over recovering the actual cost associated with the transaction, to
the tune of about sixty five million dollars what's called
excessive overcharging. So all in all, we're just saying lot,
you know, we got to make sure that all of
that actually goes through to the consumer. And that's you know,
and that's what you see in big businesses. If you
go to the supermarket, you know, people don't add a
(04:08):
surcharge on top. You don't have a search charge for
your energy or electricity costs or other components as well.
So the bottom line is that it's about get getting
rid of it so that actually people know exactly what
they're doing. And also that those transaction costs, we know
that we've pulled those down. They've got to get passed
through to consumers. Are rather than leading to that sort
(04:29):
of excessive overcharging.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Increased directors fees that's been on the news this week.
What drove that is there a need for greater talent,
so to speak.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah, look, I mean the thing that we're looking for
is performance from the public sector. Right, they need to
improve outcomes for news elens. And to help do that
you actually need to get really experienced and attract good
people to come on to public sector boards. The problem
is that the public sector boards are paid so poorly
relative to the private sector boards. Now, we are never
ever going to pay what you get in a company
(05:01):
in a private sector obviously, you know, we probably only
ever get the best to get. Maybe we get to
eighty percent of that if we're lucky. But the basic
thing is that fees haven't mentally moved for a decade,
apart from a very small increase under labor under high inflation.
But if we can get the right people, they then
turn can save us millions or billions of dollars in
public sit spending and get better outcomes from New Zealanders,
which is what we've got to do. So if you
(05:22):
think about a healthcare sector, we spend thirty two billion dollars.
One out of every five dollars of the government spends
is on healthcare. Now, yeah, you know it doesn't if
you get a good quality board on health New Zealand
and you know that can make a huge difference to
making sure that's a better performing organization that's delivering the surgeries,
the rule are in the wait lists and getting more
value for that money that's going into that system, which
(05:44):
is a massive amount of cash. So you know, it's
just making sure that we are you know, we're making
sure that we're never going to be we're private sector
and board directors getting paid, but we've got to be
in a place where we can at least get some
good people to say, Okay, I'll do this as public
service for New Zealand, but it's not so offensive that
it's not worth their time not to do it.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Hard to argue with that.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Okay, one last thing I want to touch on, and
I know you love your sport, but the netball the
other night, I couldn't. I look, I felt for you
that doing sort of thing before. I mean, sometimes is
you know, do you have to have a bit of
a rethink about whether some of those events are worth
being act or or how do you suck?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I look, honestly, like in the in the actual auditorium,
it was fantastic. I was really well receive. People are
very kind to me. There's a couple of people. Yep,
as you'd expect, that's quite normal for politicians moving around
the country, doing town halls, doing public meetings. But I
have to be honest, I think the way it's been
represented is quite different from how it felt inside. I
wasn't I didn't feel aggrieved about that at all. And
(06:45):
it was a very small group of people, and you know,
and I get it, and that's fine, so but no,
so known for me, it was like a fantastic game.
And I wanted to support netball because actually, I think
it's an awesome sport and I think, you know, I
watch all the young girls and moms and their dads
that come along. It's a really family sort of occasion,
and it's a really good event. And and so Amanda
(07:07):
and I've tried to go, so, you know, a netball
game each each year at least to sort of sort
of give our support. So and what was quite cool,
as you know, was obviously tactics who had in one
ended up coming through. And I think that's all good
for football. And you know, it's a sport that's got
some challenges, you know, because if you think about the
growth of female sport in New Zealand. Often it's been
(07:29):
built out off the back of a male code that
then has gone on so crouding huge growth and a
female code. You know, rugby cricket, it's been fantastic to
what we've seen there, and you know netball's trying to
compete with all those other codes and I just think
it's a fantastic game as a.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Result, fantastic promise.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I won't try and compete being a rugby commentator with
being Prime minister. But we're both slow moving targets, aren't we.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
That's the reality of it.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
We've got a great country and we've got to get
in the arena and we've got to get it fixed
and sort of for people. So we've got to keep going, keep.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Going right progress to thank you very much, will be famous.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Take your kit by
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