September 18, 2025 • 7 mins
The former Minister of Primary Industries debates the future of the Alliance Group. Plus, who is responsible for our economic mire, who's fit for Parliament, and Pāmu's management.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Damian O'Connor is a former Minister of Agriculture, although I
think in his days it was the Minister of Primary Industries.
These days he's Labour's trade spokesperson. Damien, I always look
forward to arguing with you on the country, but maybe
we agree, do we or do we not? On the
future of the Alliance Group. What are you hearing because
we've heard from Riley Kennedy. I know you spent some
(00:21):
time with them this week. I thought he thought he
gave a pretty good summary of where the Alliance Group
is at.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Look, you know, it seems as though they've got their
back to the wall. They fled this for quite some time,
went out to farmers in arslus in capital. It wasn't forthcoming.
That didn't surprise me. And now you've got the Irish proposal.
I mean, I've always supported cooperatives. They've been at at
the heart of agricultural development, finer industry development across our country.
(00:48):
But we've seen an increasing number of them challenge in,
some of them fall over. This is the possible scenario
for Alliance. I mean, if the farmer owners could find
some money and keep it in there in their hands
and manage it into a better space. That would be
the ideal, Damien.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
They're going to have to find a hell of a
lot of money in a hell of a hurry.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, it might be that there's a whole lot of
the same shareholder is actually going to get, you know,
close to four billion dollars back through dairy payout. Actually,
the meat industry and the dairy industry are intertwined. They
are not separate, and will move increasingly towards dairy beef.
I think to address the Bobby carfissue, here's an opportunity,
and I think Daniel Carson quite rightfully at the last minute,
(01:30):
of course, said well, you know why don't take two
fifty from the payout from Fonterra and put it into
Alliance recapitalize it because many of the farmers will be
the same. Oh bollocks, there's another idea.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I don't believe that that's that much crossover.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, well, there will be into the future, and as
we integrate both, I think there will we benefit to both.
The fact that the dairy industry walked away from the
Bobby carf ashue has put it at real risk. The
fact that actually there's efficiencies and using dairy beef going
forward is another positive. So it is a bit of
(02:07):
a visionary and a last minute proposal. It's something that
should have been talked about. I don't think it's probably likely,
but if the Irish thing falls over, then there are
some questions around who's going to front with the money.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So you're asking a well run cooperative to kind of
bank roll. Are poorly run cooperative.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You know as the farmers who are cooperative members. I
think there's value in sharing the risks and sharing the
rewards and having a long term vision. Maybe they see
the integration is wise.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Let's have a look at yesterday's GDP number. It shocked
us all, no doubt, including the Reserve Bank. They've been
asleep at the wheel. You know how I like to
blame you for all the labor government now, hang on,
hang on, hang on. I like to blame you for
all the economic wise of the country, and most of
them are due to your lot and you're incompetent running
in the country DayMen. But I think the Reserve Bank
(03:00):
has been negligent.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You're beyond education. But anyway, coming back to this, it's
not the Reserve Bank, it's the government. They came in
to power gave fifteen billion dollars in tax coats when
we could not afford it. There had been a lot
of expenditure. People had their hand out for help through COVID.
We in government gave that money. No one is kind
of can remember that now. And we needed to give
(03:26):
that money for investment and infrastructure. This government pulled back
on all that investment. We knew it was going to
collapse the economy. They thought, well, that's going to reduce inflation.
Indeed it has, but that's effectively a recession. You know,
that's what we've been facing. And this is no surprise.
I suggest that the next quarter will be worse if
you go around the country and talk to people. And
(03:48):
even though very payout and deth and Christopher Luxon says
it's a two tier kind of recovery. Look, the figures
from this latest announcement were that even in the primary seats,
things are very very flat, if not going backwards. You know,
the payots will help, there's no doubt about that. But
if the economy does need to be you know, a
(04:10):
broader base than just relying on that.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I know, but Damien, the Reserve Bank had a tool
at its fingertips to do something about this, and they've
been far too slow to pull the trigger. And they'll
need to pull the trigger at the next ocr meeting,
and they need to drop interest rates by fifty basis points.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, you can go and look at the Reserve Bank.
You can just have a look at the chaos around
the governor and the chairman and all the rest of that.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Again, and that's a governor that you appointed Biden, no
labor appointed governor government, No, no labor appointed governor.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
In and then they were happy, you know, to have
the interest rates up high because they want to slow
down inflation and slow down the economy. Well, it just
they killed it, they strangled it, and that's what we're
dealing with at the moment.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Let's just finish on your mate, Benjamin d'Or. Well, some
people are not cut out for parliament. I suggest that bloke,
and I'm not going to call him they there them.
I'm going to call him him because he is a bloke.
He shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well, look, it's a tough gig. He came in, made
a couple of mistakes. I don't think there are too
many politicians who haven't made a few mistakes. You know,
he's decided to get I'm not going to condemn him.
I'm saying that, you know, anyone who comes into Parliament
has to realize it is a challenging environment. We have,
you know, a broad set of objectives. I think he
did his best, and you know he's moved on. I
(05:34):
think that's it. I think there are other things to
worry about and making sure that our own farming company
is doing the right thing by its staff and by
its it's animals.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Okay, Well, look still looks like a bit of a
segue from you. Let's just finish on PAMU. What are
you hearing about Jim Ward, by the way, the former
manager of Molesworth.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Well, I have spoken to Jim. I've known him for
a long long time and see what he's told me.
And I've spoken to Mark Lesley. He says there's always,
you know, two sides the story. I appreciate that, but
you know, I want to hear more facts about the
whole process and the reasons. And we've seen other senior
managers go from PAMU and there are some stock management issues,
(06:17):
I am told I've had some firsthand feedback, but I
haven't been there, so you know, I'm working on reports
that there are some shocking management driven by senior managers,
not by the people on the ground, that have resulted
in some terrible stock outcomes, and they're just outrageous for
a company that's got all the resources. It's made a
(06:37):
good profit this year and they should be congratulated, but
they need to be better than that, and they need
to look after both their staff and their animals.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
We can agree on something. Finally, Damian O'Connor, I forgive
you for ruining the economy. Always good to chat on
the country.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, you know, if it had been us, then maybe,
you know, you could justifiably say that. But the truth
is we had COVID. People have forgotten about that, and
we did keep the economy going and most people around
the world so that we were one of the most
successful countries in working our way through COVID, and.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
We're paying the price.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Got to go see you later.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
See you
Damian O'Connor is a former Minister of Agriculture, although I
think in his days it was the Minister of Primary Industries.
These days he's Labour's trade spokesperson. Damien, I always look
forward to arguing with you on the country, but maybe
we agree, do we or do we not? On the
future of the Alliance Group. What are you hearing because
we've heard from Riley Kennedy. I know you spent some
(00:21):
time with them this week. I thought he thought he
gave a pretty good summary of where the Alliance Group
is at.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Look, you know, it seems as though they've got their
back to the wall. They fled this for quite some time,
went out to farmers in arslus in capital. It wasn't forthcoming.
That didn't surprise me. And now you've got the Irish proposal.
I mean, I've always supported cooperatives. They've been at at
the heart of agricultural development, finer industry development across our country.
(00:48):
But we've seen an increasing number of them challenge in,
some of them fall over. This is the possible scenario
for Alliance. I mean, if the farmer owners could find
some money and keep it in there in their hands
and manage it into a better space. That would be
the ideal, Damien.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
They're going to have to find a hell of a
lot of money in a hell of a hurry.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, it might be that there's a whole lot of
the same shareholder is actually going to get, you know,
close to four billion dollars back through dairy payout. Actually,
the meat industry and the dairy industry are intertwined. They
are not separate, and will move increasingly towards dairy beef.
I think to address the Bobby carfissue, here's an opportunity,
and I think Daniel Carson quite rightfully at the last minute,
(01:30):
of course, said well, you know why don't take two
fifty from the payout from Fonterra and put it into
Alliance recapitalize it because many of the farmers will be
the same. Oh bollocks, there's another idea.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I don't believe that that's that much crossover.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, well, there will be into the future, and as
we integrate both, I think there will we benefit to both.
The fact that the dairy industry walked away from the
Bobby carf ashue has put it at real risk. The
fact that actually there's efficiencies and using dairy beef going
forward is another positive. So it is a bit of
(02:07):
a visionary and a last minute proposal. It's something that
should have been talked about. I don't think it's probably likely,
but if the Irish thing falls over, then there are
some questions around who's going to front with the money.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So you're asking a well run cooperative to kind of
bank roll. Are poorly run cooperative.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You know as the farmers who are cooperative members. I
think there's value in sharing the risks and sharing the
rewards and having a long term vision. Maybe they see
the integration is wise.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Let's have a look at yesterday's GDP number. It shocked
us all, no doubt, including the Reserve Bank. They've been
asleep at the wheel. You know how I like to
blame you for all the labor government now, hang on,
hang on, hang on. I like to blame you for
all the economic wise of the country, and most of
them are due to your lot and you're incompetent running
in the country DayMen. But I think the Reserve Bank
(03:00):
has been negligent.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You're beyond education. But anyway, coming back to this, it's
not the Reserve Bank, it's the government. They came in
to power gave fifteen billion dollars in tax coats when
we could not afford it. There had been a lot
of expenditure. People had their hand out for help through COVID.
We in government gave that money. No one is kind
of can remember that now. And we needed to give
(03:26):
that money for investment and infrastructure. This government pulled back
on all that investment. We knew it was going to
collapse the economy. They thought, well, that's going to reduce inflation.
Indeed it has, but that's effectively a recession. You know,
that's what we've been facing. And this is no surprise.
I suggest that the next quarter will be worse if
you go around the country and talk to people. And
(03:48):
even though very payout and deth and Christopher Luxon says
it's a two tier kind of recovery. Look, the figures
from this latest announcement were that even in the primary seats,
things are very very flat, if not going backwards. You know,
the payots will help, there's no doubt about that. But
if the economy does need to be you know, a
(04:10):
broader base than just relying on that.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I know, but Damien, the Reserve Bank had a tool
at its fingertips to do something about this, and they've
been far too slow to pull the trigger. And they'll
need to pull the trigger at the next ocr meeting,
and they need to drop interest rates by fifty basis points.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, you can go and look at the Reserve Bank.
You can just have a look at the chaos around
the governor and the chairman and all the rest of that.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Again, and that's a governor that you appointed Biden, no
labor appointed governor government, No, no labor appointed governor.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
In and then they were happy, you know, to have
the interest rates up high because they want to slow
down inflation and slow down the economy. Well, it just
they killed it, they strangled it, and that's what we're
dealing with at the moment.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Let's just finish on your mate, Benjamin d'Or. Well, some
people are not cut out for parliament. I suggest that bloke,
and I'm not going to call him they there them.
I'm going to call him him because he is a bloke.
He shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well, look, it's a tough gig. He came in, made
a couple of mistakes. I don't think there are too
many politicians who haven't made a few mistakes. You know,
he's decided to get I'm not going to condemn him.
I'm saying that, you know, anyone who comes into Parliament
has to realize it is a challenging environment. We have,
you know, a broad set of objectives. I think he
did his best, and you know he's moved on. I
(05:34):
think that's it. I think there are other things to
worry about and making sure that our own farming company
is doing the right thing by its staff and by
its it's animals.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Okay, Well, look still looks like a bit of a
segue from you. Let's just finish on PAMU. What are
you hearing about Jim Ward, by the way, the former
manager of Molesworth.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Well, I have spoken to Jim. I've known him for
a long long time and see what he's told me.
And I've spoken to Mark Lesley. He says there's always,
you know, two sides the story. I appreciate that, but
you know, I want to hear more facts about the
whole process and the reasons. And we've seen other senior
managers go from PAMU and there are some stock management issues,
(06:17):
I am told I've had some firsthand feedback, but I
haven't been there, so you know, I'm working on reports
that there are some shocking management driven by senior managers,
not by the people on the ground, that have resulted
in some terrible stock outcomes, and they're just outrageous for
a company that's got all the resources. It's made a
(06:37):
good profit this year and they should be congratulated, but
they need to be better than that, and they need
to look after both their staff and their animals.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
We can agree on something. Finally, Damian O'Connor, I forgive
you for ruining the economy. Always good to chat on
the country.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, you know, if it had been us, then maybe,
you know, you could justifiably say that. But the truth
is we had COVID. People have forgotten about that, and
we did keep the economy going and most people around
the world so that we were one of the most
successful countries in working our way through COVID, and.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
We're paying the price.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Got to go see you later.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
See you
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