October 1, 2025 • 7 mins
The Leader of the Opposition on the bipartisan offer from Prime Minister Christopher Luxon. Plus, what are Labour’s plans for the farming sector?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're joined now by the leader of the Opposition, Chris Hipkins. Chris,
good afternoon today.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Good to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah, Chris, you're not heading to Perth or anything at
the last minute to go and watch the All Blacks
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
No, I did get that. I did catch the All
Blacks game on Saturday though, up at Eden Park, and
I've got to say that it was a much much
better game than the one at the Cakes in a
few weeks earlier. They're back on forms.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yep, we've got to see that. We've got to see that, right. Okay, say, look,
you guys have made it as a party, You've made
it pretty clear, and no policy of you want to
go an election year with that. But and there's quite
a bit of pushback on the government in terms of
your rhetoric at the moment. But what's the plan for
rural Chris, What are you looking at for farmers for
the backbone of the country and a group who voted
(00:47):
very strongly for you a couple of elections ago.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, we want New Zealand to be one of the
most innovative sustainable food producers in the world and we
already are, and we want to double down on that.
It is a massive natural advantage that New Zealand has
in terms of our clean green reputation, but just the
natural environment that we've got here in New Zealand provides
us with huge opportunities. And our farming community know that already.
(01:12):
I've been out and about visiting farmers around the country.
I know the premium that they place on our environment
and the work that they're doing to protect that. So
we want to make sure that we are seen around
the world as the best place in the world, not
just to buy produce, but also to come for inspiration
about how you do sustainable food production. We've got to
be at the cutting edge of that.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
How difficult is it for you pending the likelihood of
coalition with the Greens and balancing that with the Greens
given what they will desire in terms of what is
a great agricultural horticultural outlook.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Well, when I go out and speak to farmers and
growers around the country, they're already balancing these issues every day.
They are very mindful of our environment. Yes, there is
always going to be a minority who will do and
say things that make everybody else look bad, but actually
the fast bulk that I speak to are very conscious
of the environment, and they're always focused on balancing their
(02:10):
productivity with environmental protection. So we want to work alongside
them to make it easier to protect the environment because
that's what they want to do. I've seen, you know,
a lot of farmers doing rauperian planting, fencing, border ways,
even using new technologies to protect the environment. We want
to get alongside them and say, Okay, this is really
(02:31):
good work. How can we make that better, easier and
more profitable for you. So rather than using a big stick,
we want to work alongside you and say, yep, we
acknowledge that you're willing to do the hard yards and
we want to help you to do that.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
When I mentioned a few years ago, I mean clearly
farmers gone behind the Labor Party with the hope of
eliminating the Greens. I guess that's something you know, obviously
you'd be in favor of again if you can get
those kind of numbers, if you are in fact out
they're talking to farmers and getting a good well.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Of course, under emp you know, majority is a lovely thing.
But that was a relatively rare set of circumstances that
we managed to achieve a majority under EMP. You have
to work with other parties. But where I differ from
Christopher Lakes in the National Party at the moment is
I don't think that means that smaller parties should be
calling all the shots. I do think the parties that
attract the lion's share of support to form government should
(03:23):
still have you know, the significant amount of sway and
that's certainly going to be my pitch to voters at
the next election. Yep, we will have to work with
other parties. That's just the nature of the electoral system
the New Zealanders have chosen. But that doesn't mean that
the tail should wag the dog.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
What about the situation with the bipartisan around the gas
exploration are you are you standing firm on that that
you're not going to give some ground around a ten
year agreement?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, guess it is. We You know, we've spent about
one point eight billion dollars in the last five years
despite the all in gas ban, the offshore ban on
new permits, about one point eight billion was spent on
exploring the existing permits. Our guest supplies continue to diminish.
Christopher Luxen selling, I think new Zealand is a hoax.
When he's saying that it'll all be all right once
the oil and gas ban is removed. The reality here
(04:10):
is that you know, they've been out there looking for
it and they haven't found that gas. So what we've
been trying to say to them for some months now
is we've got to work out what we do about
supporting a transition for those who rely on gas, and
that means supporting the businesses who rely on the gas
the most. They're making sure that those who don't really
need it, like schools and hospitals who could use electricity instead,
(04:32):
are supported to make that transition.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
But it's the investment been the opportunity for investment to
come in and find that gas being at the sort
of at the level it should be. Is that not
being restricted.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, one of the issues is that those companies weren't
finding anything and they were handing back their permits. They're
basically saying they don't think it's in their economic interests
to keep looking for it. The government have offered them
two hundred million dollars in subsidies ate see what happens
with that in the next few months, but it's not
very much because those exploration companies have already looked at
New Zealand and decided that there's not much here to fight.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Okay, well, let's look at farming in general in a
relationship to the labor party. If I was to you,
know that beautiful road we've got up between Wellington and
the Manor were two now, Chris, If I said to you,
would you come up to the fielding Sally Yards and
on a Friday to the one of the biggest stock
sales in the Southern Hemisphere is not the world? Would
you be comfortable with that that that you would get
a good reception.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I'm aware whether I get a good reception or not.
I've showed up to a lot of those events, and
I've done South Island field Days, High Country field Days,
field days at Mystery Creek, and a lot of individual
farm visits as well, and generally speaking, I think people
have appreciated the fact that I've showed up and been
willing to listen. And yeah, we're not going to agree
on everything, but at the end of the day, that's democracy,
(05:50):
isn't it. What's important is that you keep talking to
each other and you keep listening to each other.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
The Penny Simmons issue we've got going on sort of
in the rang A ticket that was on the news night.
I've had quite a bit of feedback on that and
it felt like, yeah, look, the example of the national MP,
the local MP Sue's Redmain happens to be a farmer
from that area and those farmers are won in the
council the authority involved to lift their game. Is that
(06:18):
not unreasonable?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
The issue is that the farmers are raised is not unreasonable.
That's perfectly legitimate for them to do so. I think
Penny Simmons using her position as a minister to go
into for those farmers when there is a clear conflict
of interest there. There's a problem she could have. You know,
she needed to step back from that. It looks like
a minister exerting influence on behalf of a small group
(06:41):
of people where there's a conflict of interest, and that
is the problem. Perception is the problem here. The farmers
have done nothing wrong, but Penny Simmons has overstepped the mark.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Okay, well, we appreciate you taking your time today. We'll
let you get back to the rest of the week.
Leader of the Opposition, Chris Hiptons Thank you very much
for joining us.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Had to talk to you
We're joined now by the leader of the Opposition, Chris Hipkins. Chris,
good afternoon today.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Good to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah, Chris, you're not heading to Perth or anything at
the last minute to go and watch the All Blacks
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
No, I did get that. I did catch the All
Blacks game on Saturday though, up at Eden Park, and
I've got to say that it was a much much
better game than the one at the Cakes in a
few weeks earlier. They're back on forms.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yep, we've got to see that. We've got to see that, right. Okay, say, look,
you guys have made it as a party, You've made
it pretty clear, and no policy of you want to
go an election year with that. But and there's quite
a bit of pushback on the government in terms of
your rhetoric at the moment. But what's the plan for
rural Chris, What are you looking at for farmers for
the backbone of the country and a group who voted
(00:47):
very strongly for you a couple of elections ago.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, we want New Zealand to be one of the
most innovative sustainable food producers in the world and we
already are, and we want to double down on that.
It is a massive natural advantage that New Zealand has
in terms of our clean green reputation, but just the
natural environment that we've got here in New Zealand provides
us with huge opportunities. And our farming community know that already.
(01:12):
I've been out and about visiting farmers around the country.
I know the premium that they place on our environment
and the work that they're doing to protect that. So
we want to make sure that we are seen around
the world as the best place in the world, not
just to buy produce, but also to come for inspiration
about how you do sustainable food production. We've got to
be at the cutting edge of that.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
How difficult is it for you pending the likelihood of
coalition with the Greens and balancing that with the Greens
given what they will desire in terms of what is
a great agricultural horticultural outlook.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Well, when I go out and speak to farmers and
growers around the country, they're already balancing these issues every day.
They are very mindful of our environment. Yes, there is
always going to be a minority who will do and
say things that make everybody else look bad, but actually
the fast bulk that I speak to are very conscious
of the environment, and they're always focused on balancing their
(02:10):
productivity with environmental protection. So we want to work alongside
them to make it easier to protect the environment because
that's what they want to do. I've seen, you know,
a lot of farmers doing rauperian planting, fencing, border ways,
even using new technologies to protect the environment. We want
to get alongside them and say, Okay, this is really
(02:31):
good work. How can we make that better, easier and
more profitable for you. So rather than using a big stick,
we want to work alongside you and say, yep, we
acknowledge that you're willing to do the hard yards and
we want to help you to do that.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
When I mentioned a few years ago, I mean clearly
farmers gone behind the Labor Party with the hope of
eliminating the Greens. I guess that's something you know, obviously
you'd be in favor of again if you can get
those kind of numbers, if you are in fact out
they're talking to farmers and getting a good well.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Of course, under emp you know, majority is a lovely thing.
But that was a relatively rare set of circumstances that
we managed to achieve a majority under EMP. You have
to work with other parties. But where I differ from
Christopher Lakes in the National Party at the moment is
I don't think that means that smaller parties should be
calling all the shots. I do think the parties that
attract the lion's share of support to form government should
(03:23):
still have you know, the significant amount of sway and
that's certainly going to be my pitch to voters at
the next election. Yep, we will have to work with
other parties. That's just the nature of the electoral system
the New Zealanders have chosen. But that doesn't mean that
the tail should wag the dog.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
What about the situation with the bipartisan around the gas
exploration are you are you standing firm on that that
you're not going to give some ground around a ten
year agreement?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, guess it is. We You know, we've spent about
one point eight billion dollars in the last five years
despite the all in gas ban, the offshore ban on
new permits, about one point eight billion was spent on
exploring the existing permits. Our guest supplies continue to diminish.
Christopher Luxen selling, I think new Zealand is a hoax.
When he's saying that it'll all be all right once
the oil and gas ban is removed. The reality here
(04:10):
is that you know, they've been out there looking for
it and they haven't found that gas. So what we've
been trying to say to them for some months now
is we've got to work out what we do about
supporting a transition for those who rely on gas, and
that means supporting the businesses who rely on the gas
the most. They're making sure that those who don't really
need it, like schools and hospitals who could use electricity instead,
(04:32):
are supported to make that transition.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
But it's the investment been the opportunity for investment to
come in and find that gas being at the sort
of at the level it should be. Is that not
being restricted.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, one of the issues is that those companies weren't
finding anything and they were handing back their permits. They're
basically saying they don't think it's in their economic interests
to keep looking for it. The government have offered them
two hundred million dollars in subsidies ate see what happens
with that in the next few months, but it's not
very much because those exploration companies have already looked at
New Zealand and decided that there's not much here to fight.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Okay, well, let's look at farming in general in a
relationship to the labor party. If I was to you,
know that beautiful road we've got up between Wellington and
the Manor were two now, Chris, If I said to you,
would you come up to the fielding Sally Yards and
on a Friday to the one of the biggest stock
sales in the Southern Hemisphere is not the world? Would
you be comfortable with that that that you would get
a good reception.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I'm aware whether I get a good reception or not.
I've showed up to a lot of those events, and
I've done South Island field Days, High Country field Days,
field days at Mystery Creek, and a lot of individual
farm visits as well, and generally speaking, I think people
have appreciated the fact that I've showed up and been
willing to listen. And yeah, we're not going to agree
on everything, but at the end of the day, that's democracy,
(05:50):
isn't it. What's important is that you keep talking to
each other and you keep listening to each other.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
The Penny Simmons issue we've got going on sort of
in the rang A ticket that was on the news night.
I've had quite a bit of feedback on that and
it felt like, yeah, look, the example of the national MP,
the local MP Sue's Redmain happens to be a farmer
from that area and those farmers are won in the
council the authority involved to lift their game. Is that
(06:18):
not unreasonable?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
The issue is that the farmers are raised is not unreasonable.
That's perfectly legitimate for them to do so. I think
Penny Simmons using her position as a minister to go
into for those farmers when there is a clear conflict
of interest there. There's a problem she could have. You know,
she needed to step back from that. It looks like
a minister exerting influence on behalf of a small group
(06:41):
of people where there's a conflict of interest, and that
is the problem. Perception is the problem here. The farmers
have done nothing wrong, but Penny Simmons has overstepped the mark.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Okay, well, we appreciate you taking your time today. We'll
let you get back to the rest of the week.
Leader of the Opposition, Chris Hiptons Thank you very much
for joining us.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Had to talk to you
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