December 10, 2025 • 7 mins
We ask the NZ First leader and Minister of Foreign Affairs about “survive to ’25” and “the fix for ’26”. We also discuss the latest polls, RMA reforms, an FTA with India, and Stuart Nash. Plus, how many more elections does the 80-year-old have left in him?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the country. Well, I finally got a
hold of him, kept going to voice smile, but we
always get our man here on the country Winston, Peter's
former Deputy Prime Minister, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston I want
to start with we talked about survive to twenty five.
(00:21):
Where did we go wrong? Why has this? She had
been so tough.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Realities was that it was a misunderstanding of the state
and the very bad set of the economy in twenty
twenty three. Now the consequence, the urgency and changing it
was not what it should have been. That's very very clear.
But it's started to turn around now. But as I say,
it fully turned around a year too late or a
(00:46):
year later than it should be happening.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So is that a criticism of your coalition partners.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
No, Look, all the economists got it wrong, Treasure got
it wrong, and the mainstream media got it massively wrong.
And here we are. They'll never go up to it,
of course, because I'll never acknowledge the fact that somebody
was saying back in twenty twenty three, after the fifteenth
of March the first quarter measurement came out just how
bad things were. But a despicable situation. We're insting moment.
(01:14):
What is nobody can rely on the mainstream media.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Okay, what is the fix for twenty six? What are
you going to do about it?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well at twenty twenty six. So you've got to get
out there and make sure we know some of our targets,
make sure the big things that are required to be
changed do change and as fast as possible.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Your old mate Jim Bolger said Bug. Of the polls
you no doubt will echo whose thoughts. We've had two
poles out this week. One suggests a reasonable lead for
the current coalition. Another one sort of said hung parliament. Otherwise,
poles don't matter a jot really do they are? What
nine ten eleven months out from an election?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Well, in every leading democracy in Australia, how the UK,
the United States, the poles have a certain parody or
they're very very close in usual, huge differences in the polls,
and that's why the poles are rubbish.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
The RAMA reforms announced this week have been described as
the single largest economic reform and a generation. Do you
go along with that because you were there when the
RAMA came in.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
No, Actually, if you recall very distinctly I was in
there saying that Native Party had got it all wrong
in nine ninety one, and as the result that expelled
me from the party.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
You remember that I do well, there's been a few
expulsions over the years, so I just had to make
one particular one. Once you've been kicked for touch a
couple of times.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
No that, no, no, mate. The difference is that I
do out there and I got a new I resigned
from partment, got a new mandate, not like the rest
of them. Excuse me, don't try and put me in
the same bush with them. But back in nine ninety one,
I was saying this is the wrong pathway to go
down and takes you a long time to get in recognition,
sometimes never. But as the facts, the Labor Party drafts
(03:05):
of the IRMA prior to the nine to nine election,
the National Party adopted it.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, okay, So you're totally happy with what Chris Bishop
and his team have come up with.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well largely see so I am. There is some tweaking
to be done, but are huge that I am. There's
a massive restraint and a cost and the time waste
that's going on with planning in our country and councils
have got far too much power. Certain bureaucrats have got
massive power within those councils and no one's got them
(03:38):
under control. And so yes, we do support these changes
in the main.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Todd McLay as a Minister of Trade and you as
a Minister of Foreign Affairs, and I know the likes
of Judith Collins, even we're doing some good work offshore.
How close do you reckon in your harder hearts we
are to that FTA with India.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Well, that is not my timetable, but the Prime Minister
promised that in the first term of the government, and
so we've got a year ago, well not a year
eleven months ago on that. So the timeline I can't
tell you, but that's the time frame we're in.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Okay, so we're going to get one before the end
of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Oh look, you've turned the wrong minister here. I'm not
the Minister for Trade. I've done my best there were
I going to back up the Minister of Trade and
to act in concert with my colleagues. But that's for
him to answer.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Talking about twenty twenty six in the election, what's happened
to Stuart.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Nash, Well, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I mean, is he still a New Zealand first candidate
or a potential candidate?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
But it never was in his first candidate or.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
You were singing his praise as at the annual conference.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
No, look, for goodness sake, you're an experienced journalist. Words matter.
What did I say at the National Time New Zealand
First that I think being a candidate? The answer is nothing.
So why are you now imposing that somehow I did
say something about it.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Well, I'll go back and I'll go back and check
my record's apologies if I got it wrong, but I
thought you were kind of endorsing in Winstone.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
You know that you've got it wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Sheeez. Us journalists say.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, well you can know if I meant you should
know this very very clearly in your mind. If I'd
have said it, the facts will be there, so I
can tell you I said no such thing. I just
welcomed him to the notice of the party.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Okay, So he's not a candidate in the election next year.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
For the young teenth time. No one becomes a candidate
until I've been through the process, and I don't though
I'm not in charge of that part of the party's
organization that has not happened now at this point in time, this.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Is our final chat for twenty twenty five. And I
always enjoy a bit of banter with you, and you
do buy it nicely, and you're all you always give
back more than you get. I've lost a great friend
of mine yesterday, an old golfing buddy, eighty years of age,
Eric Olson, same age as you. In fact, he's a
wee bit younger than you. He's just turned eighty. I mean,
(06:13):
you have a remarkable constitution for a man your age,
and you show so show no signs of swowing down.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Oh, for goodness, say you know, as I said, I've
got a great former press officer's an old people's home now.
But he came out of a way up north on
the seat of the Northland, worked at the post office
and went from there to be a soldier in Malaya
and then on to being a serious media specialist in
(06:47):
New Zealand. And he had some great advice to me.
That's a long ago, he said, Winston, go ackt your age.
It's a beast advice I can give you.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, Winston Peters, thank you for being a regular on
the country. Do appreciate your time. You've been on the show.
You realize since about the early two thousands. You're one
of my longest standing correspondents. I wonder how many how
many more years the pair of us have got left
in this gick.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Oh well, see I'm every now again. You have common
sense and logic on your program, and thank you for
having me on. All right, in the meantime, you and
your listen listening have a great Christmas and there much
better new Year.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Well, add Merry Christmas to you and your family. We're
sending you a box of Makaisa because you've been a
good supporter of the show and enjoy it. Okay, there
we go, Winston Peters for the final time and twenty
twenty five
Welcome back to the country. Well, I finally got a
hold of him, kept going to voice smile, but we
always get our man here on the country Winston, Peter's
former Deputy Prime Minister, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston I want
to start with we talked about survive to twenty five.
(00:21):
Where did we go wrong? Why has this? She had
been so tough.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Realities was that it was a misunderstanding of the state
and the very bad set of the economy in twenty
twenty three. Now the consequence, the urgency and changing it
was not what it should have been. That's very very clear.
But it's started to turn around now. But as I say,
it fully turned around a year too late or a
(00:46):
year later than it should be happening.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So is that a criticism of your coalition partners.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
No, Look, all the economists got it wrong, Treasure got
it wrong, and the mainstream media got it massively wrong.
And here we are. They'll never go up to it,
of course, because I'll never acknowledge the fact that somebody
was saying back in twenty twenty three, after the fifteenth
of March the first quarter measurement came out just how
bad things were. But a despicable situation. We're insting moment.
(01:14):
What is nobody can rely on the mainstream media.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Okay, what is the fix for twenty six? What are
you going to do about it?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well at twenty twenty six. So you've got to get
out there and make sure we know some of our targets,
make sure the big things that are required to be
changed do change and as fast as possible.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Your old mate Jim Bolger said Bug. Of the polls
you no doubt will echo whose thoughts. We've had two
poles out this week. One suggests a reasonable lead for
the current coalition. Another one sort of said hung parliament. Otherwise,
poles don't matter a jot really do they are? What
nine ten eleven months out from an election?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Well, in every leading democracy in Australia, how the UK,
the United States, the poles have a certain parody or
they're very very close in usual, huge differences in the polls,
and that's why the poles are rubbish.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
The RAMA reforms announced this week have been described as
the single largest economic reform and a generation. Do you
go along with that because you were there when the
RAMA came in.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
No, Actually, if you recall very distinctly I was in
there saying that Native Party had got it all wrong
in nine ninety one, and as the result that expelled
me from the party.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
You remember that I do well, there's been a few
expulsions over the years, so I just had to make
one particular one. Once you've been kicked for touch a
couple of times.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
No that, no, no, mate. The difference is that I
do out there and I got a new I resigned
from partment, got a new mandate, not like the rest
of them. Excuse me, don't try and put me in
the same bush with them. But back in nine ninety one,
I was saying this is the wrong pathway to go
down and takes you a long time to get in recognition,
sometimes never. But as the facts, the Labor Party drafts
(03:05):
of the IRMA prior to the nine to nine election,
the National Party adopted it.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, okay, So you're totally happy with what Chris Bishop
and his team have come up with.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well largely see so I am. There is some tweaking
to be done, but are huge that I am. There's
a massive restraint and a cost and the time waste
that's going on with planning in our country and councils
have got far too much power. Certain bureaucrats have got
massive power within those councils and no one's got them
(03:38):
under control. And so yes, we do support these changes
in the main.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Todd McLay as a Minister of Trade and you as
a Minister of Foreign Affairs, and I know the likes
of Judith Collins, even we're doing some good work offshore.
How close do you reckon in your harder hearts we
are to that FTA with India.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Well, that is not my timetable, but the Prime Minister
promised that in the first term of the government, and
so we've got a year ago, well not a year
eleven months ago on that. So the timeline I can't
tell you, but that's the time frame we're in.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Okay, so we're going to get one before the end
of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Oh look, you've turned the wrong minister here. I'm not
the Minister for Trade. I've done my best there were
I going to back up the Minister of Trade and
to act in concert with my colleagues. But that's for
him to answer.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Talking about twenty twenty six in the election, what's happened
to Stuart.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Nash, Well, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I mean, is he still a New Zealand first candidate
or a potential candidate?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
But it never was in his first candidate or.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
You were singing his praise as at the annual conference.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
No, look, for goodness sake, you're an experienced journalist. Words matter.
What did I say at the National Time New Zealand
First that I think being a candidate? The answer is nothing.
So why are you now imposing that somehow I did
say something about it.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Well, I'll go back and I'll go back and check
my record's apologies if I got it wrong, but I
thought you were kind of endorsing in Winstone.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
You know that you've got it wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Sheeez. Us journalists say.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, well you can know if I meant you should
know this very very clearly in your mind. If I'd
have said it, the facts will be there, so I
can tell you I said no such thing. I just
welcomed him to the notice of the party.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Okay, So he's not a candidate in the election next year.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
For the young teenth time. No one becomes a candidate
until I've been through the process, and I don't though
I'm not in charge of that part of the party's
organization that has not happened now at this point in time, this.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Is our final chat for twenty twenty five. And I
always enjoy a bit of banter with you, and you
do buy it nicely, and you're all you always give
back more than you get. I've lost a great friend
of mine yesterday, an old golfing buddy, eighty years of age,
Eric Olson, same age as you. In fact, he's a
wee bit younger than you. He's just turned eighty. I mean,
(06:13):
you have a remarkable constitution for a man your age,
and you show so show no signs of swowing down.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Oh, for goodness, say you know, as I said, I've
got a great former press officer's an old people's home now.
But he came out of a way up north on
the seat of the Northland, worked at the post office
and went from there to be a soldier in Malaya
and then on to being a serious media specialist in
(06:47):
New Zealand. And he had some great advice to me.
That's a long ago, he said, Winston, go ackt your age.
It's a beast advice I can give you.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, Winston Peters, thank you for being a regular on
the country. Do appreciate your time. You've been on the show.
You realize since about the early two thousands. You're one
of my longest standing correspondents. I wonder how many how
many more years the pair of us have got left
in this gick.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Oh well, see I'm every now again. You have common
sense and logic on your program, and thank you for
having me on. All right, in the meantime, you and
your listen listening have a great Christmas and there much
better new Year.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Well, add Merry Christmas to you and your family. We're
sending you a box of Makaisa because you've been a
good supporter of the show and enjoy it. Okay, there
we go, Winston Peters for the final time and twenty
twenty five
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