March 31, 2026 • 13 mins
In this episode on Mythbusting Facial Eczema, Hamish McKay chats with dairy farmer David Kidd, about spore counting, pasture management, zinc treatments, how to plan ahead, and how the Eliminating Facial Eczema Impacts Programme is helping farmers better understand facial eczema.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wow, MythBusters the Facial Extra Edition with Beef and Lamb,
New Zealand powered by the Country.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to the third and final episode where we talk
about myth busting facial x me brought to you by
Beef and Lamb, New Zealand and powered by the Country.
I'm Hamous mccatt and today we dig deeper into eliminating
facial X impacts the study of and we're going to
be talking to a farmer from well northwest of Auckland.
(00:31):
The Helensville Regent David kid joins Uskidda, David.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Are you today? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Great, than can you tell me what you and your
wife Jeanine your farm? What three properties and a fairly
big sort of operation up there.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, so farmer family property of just under four hundred hectares,
which is shee can beef. So third generation to do that.
And then about eight years ago my wife and I
decided to jump outside the norm for us anyway, and
we purchased a three hundred and eighty cow dairy farm
(01:07):
about twenty minutes from the home home property. And then
we have a runoff of about two hundred hectares we farm,
which is sort of in a triangular scent about twenty
minutes from each other.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Properties, right, just to make life interesting, right, throw those
couple of extra properties in there, absolutely right, right. Farming
in the North has its challenges, probably more a lot
to do with the weather, but facial XMA is obviously
right up there.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Absolutely yep.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Tell us about it and why it is such a
serious disease for grazing animals and the sector in general.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Facial exmate, to me, is one of those diseases that
it can creep up behind you and it can catch
you unawares. So it's something that on the she be farmed.
We've known about it, we've farmed with it for my
entire life. Dad's been incredibly focused on genetics, particularly to
(02:10):
try and manage some of that risk. Jumping into the
dairy industry. It's something that I had never really had
to deal with the prevention type piece that we have
to do every single year with the dairy industry. So
it's been a real sort of eye opener for Jeanine
(02:33):
and I to actually understand the impact that it has
on the dairy cows and how we can try and
manage it.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So when you went into the the dairy operation was
this a bit more of a spanner on the works
than you imagined it was going to be.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It was, i'd farnd a. I'd farmed freezing bulls before
I got into the dairy industry, and so with the
coqu base that we up here, we can sort of
sometimes manage it to a degree, but I'd seen sort
of the impacts on some of the freezing balls, and
because we hadn't been used to farming freezians, we didn't
(03:07):
know how to do the prevention piece so well. Moving
into the dairy industry and I realized just how quickly
it can actually make a real impact on the bottom line,
and how important it is that we get that prevention
aspect right to try and maximize our production.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
So facial X Matt, given the work your dad did
and your experience in your lifetime and farming wasn't something
that's new to you, but I guess the level of
attention that is required, and it's starting to spreads going
into the South Island more so down there now, so
it is something we've got to be all over.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It's been really interesting. I mean, we can spend hours
and I know people do talking about the causes of
climate change. But the fact for me is that the
climate has changed. Even in the short time that I've
been farming. I've only been farming fourteen years now, I've
seen a change in our climate and how it affects us.
(04:05):
And as this warming temperature sort of drifts further south
down the country, I think we're going to see some
of the challenges that we've farmed with in the north
for a period of time. I think ticks, I think
facial exma, we will start to see them actually move
further down the country and farmers might not have had
an experience with it before are going to have to
(04:27):
deal with these challenges.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
One of the things that's come through with me in
this discussion this podcast series around Facial Expert with Beef
and lamb Enz is just how sneaky this facial exma
can be, particularly in dairy herds. I mean, what are
the signs obviously or subtle that you've learned to watch for.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
So to me, one of the subtle signs that sort
of starts starts appearing in the dairy shed is the
cows become a whole lot more restless, they get it
increased sense to around the teeths. So of course, you
start cupping the cows and they start stomping initially, and
then they'll they'll be wanting to kick those cups off
(05:09):
a little bit more than the normal and you might
not be able to put your finger on it. What's
upset them, what's been different? And it's sort of those
You might be thinking that there's some other causes going on,
and unfortunately it can be the subclinical signs of facial
xmas starting to appear.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
What else do you use to sort of monitor for
facial exma? What else do you do other than those
things that happen obviously in the shed.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
One of the things that I'm really conscious of doing
up this way is watching the spore counts as they
as the vets start to take some samples and watch
in different areas, And to me, it's about watching the
climatic conditions that we've got. So when we get those
(05:58):
really warm, humid nights and and you know that there's
a little bit of trash around in the in the
rye grass paddics in particular, it's about sort of them
recognizing that that's that's the breeding conditions for facial exma
and actually reaching out to the vets, getting getting an
idea of have they started sport counts, maybe getting one
(06:21):
or two done actually on your property to actually to
get an indication and moving forward from there.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
BET's obviously critical tool and all of this and great
now the great working relationship with them.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Absolutely, I couldn't live without my vets.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, so inteed, Okay, so well. Zinc is thought of
as the backbone of facial exma prevention for dairy cows.
How do you manage zinc on your farm? And what's
your advice for farmers?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Look, I mean to start with, I mean we've tried
two different ways of administering zinc. So we had a
dop citron and inline dispensing system and we would put
zinc through the water. We found it sometimes just putting
the zinc in itself starts limit production because the cows
(07:14):
don't like the taste of the water, and so then
you're adding further additives and things to try and to
keep that water in take up. I've now with in
shed feeding system, we've actually moved to putting it in
the feed. We find it to be a lot more
palatable that way, that like dosage rates and the cows
(07:34):
will get past the taste to eat that palm kernel.
But the two people that I use extensively in this
is my consultant who happens to be a vet and
also our local vet clinic to actually get advice on
what they're using with the young stock, because that's probably
(07:56):
one of the most critical parts of the dairy operation
is making sure that we grow those young stock out
really well. It's been about putting boluses down their throats
and using that sort as a form of prevention.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
How much time do you think you put into and
I guess on a weekly basis at this time of
the year when it's most prevalent into the treatment and
the control of facial exma.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Do you know, I think that that's been the greatest
thing now with the options that are out there and
particularly having it in our in shed feeding system, is
that we start our prevention early. So we know that
facial xma time is coming sort of somewhere late January
(08:45):
to March, so we start putting zinc and our feed
our in shed feed mixes when it comes down from
Marson Point, and we do that late January into early February,
depending on weather conditions. Means that it's one of those
things that's actually taken out of our hands and we
(09:05):
don't have to be concerned about it. Once again, monitoring
and prevention. As I get to that time of year,
I start getting in touch with the vets and actually
finding out has anyone done us portcount yet And that
can be very year on year based on what they're
seeing and weather conditions themselves as to whether they see
(09:26):
the risk or not.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Okay, so we're talking with David kid Howlandsville Farmer and
where of course here with the Beef and lamb en
Z podcast series misbusting around facial x MEA. What's the
one thing David you've learned about facial x MEA that
genuinely surprised you once you started digging into it across
your range of farms.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
The impact that it can have on your production just
at a subclinical level that you may never see an
external sign of. And it's those growth rates, it's the
it's the taking just just a shave off the top
(10:09):
of your daily production that you otherwise might not have seen.
You might be doing things relatively well, you might have
been monitoring your sport accounts and things, but that doesn't
mean that you can't have had a hot spot on
your farm that hasn't hasn't smuck passed and caused an
(10:32):
ongoing production issue.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yep, it's not well, I mean, straightforward is probably you know,
not quite the right term. But you can actually build
a good, you know, confident approach to dealing with it.
The tools are there and the knowledge is.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
There, absolutely, and I think one of the things that
I've become aware of in the last couple of years
is that there is now an increased focus, especially in Dearie.
There's always been a focus from the sheep industry, especially
sheep farmers in the North have been breeding for facial
(11:10):
XM tolerance for a number of years, but it's been
great to see CRV and LIC starting to put some
focus and have some balls that actually somewhat tolerant to
the facial XMIS spores.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right, then, let's wrap this up as we mithbust around.
Facial excellent and been good to talk the dairy world
today with Helensville farmer David David. For farmers, Okay, a
key thing I guess is just get in there and
check your farm's risk.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Absolutely, there is so much information out there if you
start looking for it Ethan Lamb has been posting some
really interesting information of recent about what they've picked up
of facial exma risk right across the entire country, and
as you talked about earlier, Hamish, it's just being phenomenal
to know that actually we always thought that the north
(12:07):
was probably where cases were most prevalent, but it's now
expanding right across the countryside. So I just can't recommend
enough that farmers get in touch with their local vets.
Check in if you're seeing something unusual, ask the question
much better to be safe rather than sorry.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yep, And just any other tips on getting staying informed
and getting involved.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Ask the question around your future breeding plans. Talk to
how I see, talk to CRV whoever you're buying your
semen from. There's some really interesting stuff starting to happen
in this space now that may just prevent a future
catastrophe from happening. If we can get in front and
actually get some of this breeding changing so that we're
(12:54):
getting tolerant animals coming through, that could be a fantastic
saving and also stop us having to use zinc as
a prevention tool in the future.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
David, thank you very much, and if you'd like to
know more about the Eliminating Facial X Impact study at
the Beef and Lamb New Zealand's website beeflaminzin dot com
and check out the knowledge
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Hub Wow MythBusters the Facial Expra Edition with Beef and
Lamb New Zealand powered by the Country
Wow, MythBusters the Facial Extra Edition with Beef and Lamb,
New Zealand powered by the Country.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to the third and final episode where we talk
about myth busting facial x me brought to you by
Beef and Lamb, New Zealand and powered by the Country.
I'm Hamous mccatt and today we dig deeper into eliminating
facial X impacts the study of and we're going to
be talking to a farmer from well northwest of Auckland.
(00:31):
The Helensville Regent David kid joins Uskidda, David.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Are you today? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Great, than can you tell me what you and your
wife Jeanine your farm? What three properties and a fairly
big sort of operation up there.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, so farmer family property of just under four hundred hectares,
which is shee can beef. So third generation to do that.
And then about eight years ago my wife and I
decided to jump outside the norm for us anyway, and
we purchased a three hundred and eighty cow dairy farm
(01:07):
about twenty minutes from the home home property. And then
we have a runoff of about two hundred hectares we farm,
which is sort of in a triangular scent about twenty
minutes from each other.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Properties, right, just to make life interesting, right, throw those
couple of extra properties in there, absolutely right, right. Farming
in the North has its challenges, probably more a lot
to do with the weather, but facial XMA is obviously
right up there.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Absolutely yep.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Tell us about it and why it is such a
serious disease for grazing animals and the sector in general.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Facial exmate, to me, is one of those diseases that
it can creep up behind you and it can catch
you unawares. So it's something that on the she be farmed.
We've known about it, we've farmed with it for my
entire life. Dad's been incredibly focused on genetics, particularly to
(02:10):
try and manage some of that risk. Jumping into the
dairy industry. It's something that I had never really had
to deal with the prevention type piece that we have
to do every single year with the dairy industry. So
it's been a real sort of eye opener for Jeanine
(02:33):
and I to actually understand the impact that it has
on the dairy cows and how we can try and
manage it.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So when you went into the the dairy operation was
this a bit more of a spanner on the works
than you imagined it was going to be.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It was, i'd farnd a. I'd farmed freezing bulls before
I got into the dairy industry, and so with the
coqu base that we up here, we can sort of
sometimes manage it to a degree, but I'd seen sort
of the impacts on some of the freezing balls, and
because we hadn't been used to farming freezians, we didn't
(03:07):
know how to do the prevention piece so well. Moving
into the dairy industry and I realized just how quickly
it can actually make a real impact on the bottom line,
and how important it is that we get that prevention
aspect right to try and maximize our production.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
So facial X Matt, given the work your dad did
and your experience in your lifetime and farming wasn't something
that's new to you, but I guess the level of
attention that is required, and it's starting to spreads going
into the South Island more so down there now, so
it is something we've got to be all over.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It's been really interesting. I mean, we can spend hours
and I know people do talking about the causes of
climate change. But the fact for me is that the
climate has changed. Even in the short time that I've
been farming. I've only been farming fourteen years now, I've
seen a change in our climate and how it affects us.
(04:05):
And as this warming temperature sort of drifts further south
down the country, I think we're going to see some
of the challenges that we've farmed with in the north
for a period of time. I think ticks, I think
facial exma, we will start to see them actually move
further down the country and farmers might not have had
an experience with it before are going to have to
(04:27):
deal with these challenges.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
One of the things that's come through with me in
this discussion this podcast series around Facial Expert with Beef
and lamb Enz is just how sneaky this facial exma
can be, particularly in dairy herds. I mean, what are
the signs obviously or subtle that you've learned to watch for.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
So to me, one of the subtle signs that sort
of starts starts appearing in the dairy shed is the
cows become a whole lot more restless, they get it
increased sense to around the teeths. So of course, you
start cupping the cows and they start stomping initially, and
then they'll they'll be wanting to kick those cups off
(05:09):
a little bit more than the normal and you might
not be able to put your finger on it. What's
upset them, what's been different? And it's sort of those
You might be thinking that there's some other causes going on,
and unfortunately it can be the subclinical signs of facial
xmas starting to appear.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
What else do you use to sort of monitor for
facial exma? What else do you do other than those
things that happen obviously in the shed.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
One of the things that I'm really conscious of doing
up this way is watching the spore counts as they
as the vets start to take some samples and watch
in different areas, And to me, it's about watching the
climatic conditions that we've got. So when we get those
(05:58):
really warm, humid nights and and you know that there's
a little bit of trash around in the in the
rye grass paddics in particular, it's about sort of them
recognizing that that's that's the breeding conditions for facial exma
and actually reaching out to the vets, getting getting an
idea of have they started sport counts, maybe getting one
(06:21):
or two done actually on your property to actually to
get an indication and moving forward from there.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
BET's obviously critical tool and all of this and great
now the great working relationship with them.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Absolutely, I couldn't live without my vets.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, so inteed, Okay, so well. Zinc is thought of
as the backbone of facial exma prevention for dairy cows.
How do you manage zinc on your farm? And what's
your advice for farmers?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Look, I mean to start with, I mean we've tried
two different ways of administering zinc. So we had a
dop citron and inline dispensing system and we would put
zinc through the water. We found it sometimes just putting
the zinc in itself starts limit production because the cows
(07:14):
don't like the taste of the water, and so then
you're adding further additives and things to try and to
keep that water in take up. I've now with in
shed feeding system, we've actually moved to putting it in
the feed. We find it to be a lot more
palatable that way, that like dosage rates and the cows
(07:34):
will get past the taste to eat that palm kernel.
But the two people that I use extensively in this
is my consultant who happens to be a vet and
also our local vet clinic to actually get advice on
what they're using with the young stock, because that's probably
(07:56):
one of the most critical parts of the dairy operation
is making sure that we grow those young stock out
really well. It's been about putting boluses down their throats
and using that sort as a form of prevention.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
How much time do you think you put into and
I guess on a weekly basis at this time of
the year when it's most prevalent into the treatment and
the control of facial exma.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Do you know, I think that that's been the greatest
thing now with the options that are out there and
particularly having it in our in shed feeding system, is
that we start our prevention early. So we know that
facial xma time is coming sort of somewhere late January
(08:45):
to March, so we start putting zinc and our feed
our in shed feed mixes when it comes down from
Marson Point, and we do that late January into early February,
depending on weather conditions. Means that it's one of those
things that's actually taken out of our hands and we
(09:05):
don't have to be concerned about it. Once again, monitoring
and prevention. As I get to that time of year,
I start getting in touch with the vets and actually
finding out has anyone done us portcount yet And that
can be very year on year based on what they're
seeing and weather conditions themselves as to whether they see
(09:26):
the risk or not.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Okay, so we're talking with David kid Howlandsville Farmer and
where of course here with the Beef and lamb en
Z podcast series misbusting around facial x MEA. What's the
one thing David you've learned about facial x MEA that
genuinely surprised you once you started digging into it across
your range of farms.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
The impact that it can have on your production just
at a subclinical level that you may never see an
external sign of. And it's those growth rates, it's the
it's the taking just just a shave off the top
(10:09):
of your daily production that you otherwise might not have seen.
You might be doing things relatively well, you might have
been monitoring your sport accounts and things, but that doesn't
mean that you can't have had a hot spot on
your farm that hasn't hasn't smuck passed and caused an
(10:32):
ongoing production issue.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yep, it's not well, I mean, straightforward is probably you know,
not quite the right term. But you can actually build
a good, you know, confident approach to dealing with it.
The tools are there and the knowledge is.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
There, absolutely, and I think one of the things that
I've become aware of in the last couple of years
is that there is now an increased focus, especially in Dearie.
There's always been a focus from the sheep industry, especially
sheep farmers in the North have been breeding for facial
(11:10):
XM tolerance for a number of years, but it's been
great to see CRV and LIC starting to put some
focus and have some balls that actually somewhat tolerant to
the facial XMIS spores.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right, then, let's wrap this up as we mithbust around.
Facial excellent and been good to talk the dairy world
today with Helensville farmer David David. For farmers, Okay, a
key thing I guess is just get in there and
check your farm's risk.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Absolutely, there is so much information out there if you
start looking for it Ethan Lamb has been posting some
really interesting information of recent about what they've picked up
of facial exma risk right across the entire country, and
as you talked about earlier, Hamish, it's just being phenomenal
to know that actually we always thought that the north
(12:07):
was probably where cases were most prevalent, but it's now
expanding right across the countryside. So I just can't recommend
enough that farmers get in touch with their local vets.
Check in if you're seeing something unusual, ask the question
much better to be safe rather than sorry.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yep, And just any other tips on getting staying informed
and getting involved.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Ask the question around your future breeding plans. Talk to
how I see, talk to CRV whoever you're buying your
semen from. There's some really interesting stuff starting to happen
in this space now that may just prevent a future
catastrophe from happening. If we can get in front and
actually get some of this breeding changing so that we're
(12:54):
getting tolerant animals coming through, that could be a fantastic
saving and also stop us having to use zinc as
a prevention tool in the future.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
David, thank you very much, and if you'd like to
know more about the Eliminating Facial X Impact study at
the Beef and Lamb New Zealand's website beeflaminzin dot com
and check out the knowledge
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Hub Wow MythBusters the Facial Expra Edition with Beef and
Lamb New Zealand powered by the Country
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