July 30, 2026 • 11 mins
In a region where plenty of productive farmland has disappeared into pine trees, two farming couples -Sam and Gemma Hain and Matt and Kate Long - are doing something uncommon – turning a carbon forestry block back into a working pastoral farm.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Without a shadow of a doubt. This is my favorite
story of the week. In a region where plenty of
productive farmland has disappeared into pine trees, two farming couples
are doing something uncommon. They're turning a forestry block, a
carbon farming block, back into a working farm. Let's welcome
on to the country, Sam Hayne and Matt Long, along
(00:20):
with their wives Jemma and Kate, a couple of farming couples. Sam,
I want to start with you, your Federated Farmers Meat
and Wool Vice chair in the Gisbane region. You guys
have done a Federated farmer's podcast. It's brilliant listening. It's
only eighteen minutes my type of podcast. Where did this
idea come from? Sam?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Initially we were off with the grazing on some of
the property Glenninis by the council to raid out a
strip corridor through the farm that was going to be
returned to a new road, and they wanted the grass
and possibly the pine trees got and so we chucked
one hundred cattle into the property and they went about
(01:03):
their thing, and turns out that they actually had quite
a taste of pine trees and knocked over a lot,
and so we sort of looked at it and went,
that's pretty cool. The property came on the market and
we thought it might be an opportunity to try something
that's not done very often.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So discover us an idea. I'll stick with you at
the stage. Sam, give me an idea of the size
of the pine trees, because I know some were planted
in twenty twenty four, they won't be too big, but
the ones planted two years earlier are obviously getting to
a fair size.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
There's some big trees. There's some trees over twelve feet tall,
and for those ones, we'll be looking to basically get
rid of them and either change some of that country
if it's deeper country, into native reversion, or if it's
easier country, we will either get rid of the trees altogether,
(01:56):
or we will change to a different species like poplar,
where we can still grade land and farm it. And
with the easier country, we're just ending up the semi
five dares of flat land that we're going to be
able to melt the trees on with a mile behind
a tractor. When you talk about the right three in
the right place, planning productive flat land is never going
(02:18):
to be the right option. So it's it's a really
pleasurable activity. Singer of pine trees, you know, madam, or
scrub cutting them with a scrub bar. It's probably the
most fun you can have with your clothes on. I reckon,
but I'm not sure that everybody's the same.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, let's bring in your partner in crime, hopefully with
his clothes on, Matte Long Matte. You and Sam have
a couple of properties that you're running as kind of
equity partnerships or partnerships. How did this partnership come about.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Jamie, I'd come back. I grew up in gism, but
I've been a way sort of actually bit like you, Jamie,
sort of in media for a long time, but always
wanted to come back to gizze and farming. And yeah,
but keep getting blown away by the pine tree investors. Well,
(03:11):
I guess specifically keept getting blown away with the carbon investors,
and probably in this region a lot of offshore carbon
investors that just we're pricing sheep and beef farms out
of the market. You know, they just didn't stack up
as sheep and beef anymore. As you'll know, Jamie and
(03:32):
that's kind of gone right around the country. Now. I
guess with the price of carbon coming back, those economics
have changed a little bit. And it's also probably changed.
I mean the government. The government does make a bit
of an effort to try and stem the tide on
those foreign investors by blocking the sale of of of
(03:57):
farmland to the foreign versus. But this is what's happened, though,
Jamie's as quick as that happens, a bit of legislation
like that. Some of these guys, well, this particular farm
to get around that new law, he as soon as
he knew he was going to put it on the market,
(04:18):
he planted the entire thing in pine trees so that
he had the ability to put it on the market
for foreign investors because obviously existing forests. Yeah, if it
is a forest, the foreign investors can buy them.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
It's just plain wrong, isn't it. Look I went to
a federal I'll stick with you, Matt Long. I went
to a Federated Farmer's high country field day at Glenary
Station down south. Wonderful day out it was. And they
were talking about controlling wilding pines using cattle and with
the Collins Halter like you guys are doing so you
can really control the grazing. But what they were saying
(04:56):
there was that the cattle would only get rid of
the wilding pines if they were effectively seedlings. How do
you get on with cattle rummaging through pine trees that
I don't know, one or two meters high? What sort
of damage are can they bowl over pine trees?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, it's a great point, Jamie. And we got probably
a little bit excited on that grazing bit that Sam
was talking about, which was it was a year ago now,
wasn't it, Sam? And so at the time we thought, shit,
they've killed these things, you know, this is this is terrific.
And when the farm came on the market, we thought,
(05:33):
how are we going to be able to do a
lot of this just with with halter. But as it's transpired,
those bloody pine trees they like weeds. You know, you
can knock the tops off them off these cattle, but
they will bounce. They will bounce back to quite a
hearty species. So but no, but a scrub bar takes
care of them, Jamie. They don't bounce back from.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
That, Sam Hayne, who we started talking to. Sam, there
is a cost to doing this. Not only have you
got to get rid of the pine trees, you also
had to repace some carbon credits. Talk me through the
maths on that one.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, that kind of hurts, but seeing as we never
had the money in the first place, it was one
of those things that wasn't quite as bad. There was
around about one hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of
carbon liability that came with the land when we purchased it,
and so we've had to surrender those credits. For any
(06:32):
land that we take out of the ETS, we've got
a surrender those credits, which means either buying them back
or using credits we generate on the other parts of
the farm to cancel them out basically. But yeah, certainly
not a chief exercise, and it's sadly what makes it
(06:54):
very difficult while the ETS is in play to bring
any land back from from permanent forestry.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Now. I listened to the Federated Farmer's podcasts well worth
a listen, nice and short eighteen minutes of it, and
you were saying on that podcast that you got in
just in time, because if those pine trees were between
years five and fifteen, I think you mentioned the repayment
of the carbon credits would be just too much.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
That's right. They're generating about fifteen hundred dollars a year
of carbon liability on the land, and so as you
can imagine, I think, you know, if we bought them
at our twenty years old, they'd be thirty or forty
thousand dollars worth of carbon liability per hectare that you'd
(07:43):
have to pay back to bring a farm back out
of pine trees at current prices.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Matt Long, how has your adventure and you'd have to
describe it as an adventure as Sam said, best fun
you can have with your clothes on. How has it
been viewed by the wider community the Gisbon region, Because
I know it's a big forestry area and a lot
of people are depending on forestry, and I'm all for
production forestry, but there's a lot of negativity around. I
(08:10):
look at my old mate Graham Williams and that around
the carbon farming, especially some of this beautiful land that
has been blanket planted. What sort of reception have you had,
Sam Hayne, have you had any negativity?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Not one word of negativity. I don't think that either
of us, I think you know, people think we're, as
I said, either legends or idiots, but but they think
it's bloody marvelous that we're taking one back. Yeah, I
guess it's only a drop in the bucket, Jamie. And
in the big scheme of things in this region, it's
(08:43):
not exactly. Yeah, it's not going to turn the tide,
but we hopefully it's just a bit of an idea.
And with the way Halter and a few of these
things coming in, it does help change the economics around
how proposition like this stats up. And so hopefully that's
(09:04):
an opportunity for a few people to look at things
a little bit differently with some of this tech coming
along and seeing that opportunity. And like you, Jamie, you
know where forestry is a big part of this region,
and we're not anti production forestry, but this foreign investment
investment in carbon game, yeah, that does nothing for the
(09:24):
for the region and our economic resilience.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I call it the emperor's new clothes. Interestingly, another thing
I picked up from the podcast, and I'll stick with you,
Matt if I can you bought a property because I
think they bowled the wolfshed over when they were putting
or putting the road or the access. And so you
bought a property with no house, no yards, no wolfshead,
no gates. So without the technology of Halter, you'd debugged.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And yeah, it would make it a lot harder to
stack up, for sure, Jamie. Yeah, no, definitely, And we're lucky.
This property is probably only three k's along the road
from from Tymode our partnership farm down the road, so
yeah that that highways it makes a good lane way
(10:12):
up up to the new block. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
And one more piece the irony of this, Sam Hayn,
you're actually hiring a forestry planting crew to come in
and get rid of your trees.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, it's one of those paradoxes that they spend the
winter planting trees and then they might be coming up
to Glenniness to help send them out on the ground.
So yeah, it's it's not real off. When you can
you can make most money at both ends. But these
guys might get the chance to do that.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Well, that'll be good for the community as well. Now,
good luck with your venture you too. You realize you're
kind of poster boys or poster children. If no, you're
too old to be posted children, but your poster boys
with your clothes on, hopefully once again for farm conversions
from carbon farming back to pastoral. Good on you. I'm
so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I think you guys Mets alluded to though, Jamie, we're
only good for radio. I don't think we've got the
faces for a poster.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Well maybe you could do a carbon farming or a
non carbon farming calendar. Something to think about, lads. Thank
you very much for your time, Sam Haynes, Matt Long
and Gisbone. A lot of people are watching what you're
doing with a lot of interest. Thanks for your time
and congratulations Sam. On your podcast with Federated Farmers, It's
a cracker. I would suggest people listen to it this weekend.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Cheers, Jamie, thanks for your time. Thank you, Jamie,
Without a shadow of a doubt. This is my favorite
story of the week. In a region where plenty of
productive farmland has disappeared into pine trees, two farming couples
are doing something uncommon. They're turning a forestry block, a
carbon farming block, back into a working farm. Let's welcome
on to the country, Sam Hayne and Matt Long, along
(00:20):
with their wives Jemma and Kate, a couple of farming couples. Sam,
I want to start with you, your Federated Farmers Meat
and Wool Vice chair in the Gisbane region. You guys
have done a Federated farmer's podcast. It's brilliant listening. It's
only eighteen minutes my type of podcast. Where did this
idea come from? Sam?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Initially we were off with the grazing on some of
the property Glenninis by the council to raid out a
strip corridor through the farm that was going to be
returned to a new road, and they wanted the grass
and possibly the pine trees got and so we chucked
one hundred cattle into the property and they went about
(01:03):
their thing, and turns out that they actually had quite
a taste of pine trees and knocked over a lot,
and so we sort of looked at it and went,
that's pretty cool. The property came on the market and
we thought it might be an opportunity to try something
that's not done very often.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So discover us an idea. I'll stick with you at
the stage. Sam, give me an idea of the size
of the pine trees, because I know some were planted
in twenty twenty four, they won't be too big, but
the ones planted two years earlier are obviously getting to
a fair size.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
There's some big trees. There's some trees over twelve feet tall,
and for those ones, we'll be looking to basically get
rid of them and either change some of that country
if it's deeper country, into native reversion, or if it's
easier country, we will either get rid of the trees altogether,
(01:56):
or we will change to a different species like poplar,
where we can still grade land and farm it. And
with the easier country, we're just ending up the semi
five dares of flat land that we're going to be
able to melt the trees on with a mile behind
a tractor. When you talk about the right three in
the right place, planning productive flat land is never going
(02:18):
to be the right option. So it's it's a really
pleasurable activity. Singer of pine trees, you know, madam, or
scrub cutting them with a scrub bar. It's probably the
most fun you can have with your clothes on. I reckon,
but I'm not sure that everybody's the same.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, let's bring in your partner in crime, hopefully with
his clothes on, Matte Long Matte. You and Sam have
a couple of properties that you're running as kind of
equity partnerships or partnerships. How did this partnership come about.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Jamie, I'd come back. I grew up in gism, but
I've been a way sort of actually bit like you, Jamie,
sort of in media for a long time, but always
wanted to come back to gizze and farming. And yeah,
but keep getting blown away by the pine tree investors. Well,
(03:11):
I guess specifically keept getting blown away with the carbon investors,
and probably in this region a lot of offshore carbon
investors that just we're pricing sheep and beef farms out
of the market. You know, they just didn't stack up
as sheep and beef anymore. As you'll know, Jamie and
(03:32):
that's kind of gone right around the country. Now. I
guess with the price of carbon coming back, those economics
have changed a little bit. And it's also probably changed.
I mean the government. The government does make a bit
of an effort to try and stem the tide on
those foreign investors by blocking the sale of of of
(03:57):
farmland to the foreign versus. But this is what's happened, though,
Jamie's as quick as that happens, a bit of legislation
like that. Some of these guys, well, this particular farm
to get around that new law, he as soon as
he knew he was going to put it on the market,
(04:18):
he planted the entire thing in pine trees so that
he had the ability to put it on the market
for foreign investors because obviously existing forests. Yeah, if it
is a forest, the foreign investors can buy them.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
It's just plain wrong, isn't it. Look I went to
a federal I'll stick with you, Matt Long. I went
to a Federated Farmer's high country field day at Glenary
Station down south. Wonderful day out it was. And they
were talking about controlling wilding pines using cattle and with
the Collins Halter like you guys are doing so you
can really control the grazing. But what they were saying
(04:56):
there was that the cattle would only get rid of
the wilding pines if they were effectively seedlings. How do
you get on with cattle rummaging through pine trees that
I don't know, one or two meters high? What sort
of damage are can they bowl over pine trees?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, it's a great point, Jamie. And we got probably
a little bit excited on that grazing bit that Sam
was talking about, which was it was a year ago now,
wasn't it, Sam? And so at the time we thought, shit,
they've killed these things, you know, this is this is terrific.
And when the farm came on the market, we thought,
(05:33):
how are we going to be able to do a
lot of this just with with halter. But as it's transpired,
those bloody pine trees they like weeds. You know, you
can knock the tops off them off these cattle, but
they will bounce. They will bounce back to quite a
hearty species. So but no, but a scrub bar takes
care of them, Jamie. They don't bounce back from.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
That, Sam Hayne, who we started talking to. Sam, there
is a cost to doing this. Not only have you
got to get rid of the pine trees, you also
had to repace some carbon credits. Talk me through the
maths on that one.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, that kind of hurts, but seeing as we never
had the money in the first place, it was one
of those things that wasn't quite as bad. There was
around about one hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of
carbon liability that came with the land when we purchased it,
and so we've had to surrender those credits. For any
(06:32):
land that we take out of the ETS, we've got
a surrender those credits, which means either buying them back
or using credits we generate on the other parts of
the farm to cancel them out basically. But yeah, certainly
not a chief exercise, and it's sadly what makes it
(06:54):
very difficult while the ETS is in play to bring
any land back from from permanent forestry.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Now. I listened to the Federated Farmer's podcasts well worth
a listen, nice and short eighteen minutes of it, and
you were saying on that podcast that you got in
just in time, because if those pine trees were between
years five and fifteen, I think you mentioned the repayment
of the carbon credits would be just too much.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
That's right. They're generating about fifteen hundred dollars a year
of carbon liability on the land, and so as you
can imagine, I think, you know, if we bought them
at our twenty years old, they'd be thirty or forty
thousand dollars worth of carbon liability per hectare that you'd
(07:43):
have to pay back to bring a farm back out
of pine trees at current prices.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Matt Long, how has your adventure and you'd have to
describe it as an adventure as Sam said, best fun
you can have with your clothes on. How has it
been viewed by the wider community the Gisbon region, Because
I know it's a big forestry area and a lot
of people are depending on forestry, and I'm all for
production forestry, but there's a lot of negativity around. I
(08:10):
look at my old mate Graham Williams and that around
the carbon farming, especially some of this beautiful land that
has been blanket planted. What sort of reception have you had,
Sam Hayne, have you had any negativity?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Not one word of negativity. I don't think that either
of us, I think you know, people think we're, as
I said, either legends or idiots, but but they think
it's bloody marvelous that we're taking one back. Yeah, I
guess it's only a drop in the bucket, Jamie. And
in the big scheme of things in this region, it's
(08:43):
not exactly. Yeah, it's not going to turn the tide,
but we hopefully it's just a bit of an idea.
And with the way Halter and a few of these
things coming in, it does help change the economics around
how proposition like this stats up. And so hopefully that's
(09:04):
an opportunity for a few people to look at things
a little bit differently with some of this tech coming
along and seeing that opportunity. And like you, Jamie, you
know where forestry is a big part of this region,
and we're not anti production forestry, but this foreign investment
investment in carbon game, yeah, that does nothing for the
(09:24):
for the region and our economic resilience.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I call it the emperor's new clothes. Interestingly, another thing
I picked up from the podcast, and I'll stick with you,
Matt if I can you bought a property because I
think they bowled the wolfshed over when they were putting
or putting the road or the access. And so you
bought a property with no house, no yards, no wolfshead,
no gates. So without the technology of Halter, you'd debugged.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And yeah, it would make it a lot harder to
stack up, for sure, Jamie. Yeah, no, definitely, And we're lucky.
This property is probably only three k's along the road
from from Tymode our partnership farm down the road, so
yeah that that highways it makes a good lane way
(10:12):
up up to the new block. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
And one more piece the irony of this, Sam Hayn,
you're actually hiring a forestry planting crew to come in
and get rid of your trees.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, it's one of those paradoxes that they spend the
winter planting trees and then they might be coming up
to Glenniness to help send them out on the ground.
So yeah, it's it's not real off. When you can
you can make most money at both ends. But these
guys might get the chance to do that.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Well, that'll be good for the community as well. Now,
good luck with your venture you too. You realize you're
kind of poster boys or poster children. If no, you're
too old to be posted children, but your poster boys
with your clothes on, hopefully once again for farm conversions
from carbon farming back to pastoral. Good on you. I'm
so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I think you guys Mets alluded to though, Jamie, we're
only good for radio. I don't think we've got the
faces for a poster.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Well maybe you could do a carbon farming or a
non carbon farming calendar. Something to think about, lads. Thank
you very much for your time, Sam Haynes, Matt Long
and Gisbone. A lot of people are watching what you're
doing with a lot of interest. Thanks for your time
and congratulations Sam. On your podcast with Federated Farmers, It's
a cracker. I would suggest people listen to it this weekend.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Cheers, Jamie, thanks for your time. Thank you, Jamie,
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