Jumaane D. Williams On Trump & Kamala, Evaluates Eric Adams, Addresses NYC Migrant Issues + More
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Its way up with Angela Yee and what a pleasure
to be joined by Jimani Williams, the Public Advocate of
the City of New York.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's nice to see you here.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Some blessings. Great to see you. Thank you, thanks for
having me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I have a Jumani Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Actually, yeah, proclamation from you, which I still appreciate so
much for me to this day. Shirley Chisholm is definitely
somebody who's one of my top heroes.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
That's what's up. Yeah, I was in the council. It
was a shirty Chishlm Awards. Oh yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Thank you, and you know, just to see how far
I mean, you've been going, but just to see how
much you want to be public advocate again, like in
a landslide victory. I remember during that time too, you
were mulling over running for governor.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, yeah, we ran, we got we got kind of
smacked them on for governor. We ran, but we came second.
So people people forget that we ran with no money.
We ran against people had fifteen million and ten million
we have five hundred thousand.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
People don't understand how much money matters. When it comes
to an action, because also it's hard to get people
to donate money too.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
That's a really difficult thing to do.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
And I usually have the ability to campaign more. I mean,
it's another story. But during that time, a lot of
people prayed for us. But my wife has several with cancer.
Baby girl was born two months early. She's cancer free.
Now baby's doing great. That's the most important family first.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
But you know, well, let's talk about everything that's been
going on, because we see that Donald Trump had a
rally in Madison Square Garden.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You know, he is from New York.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So I'm not claiming him, but he is.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And people did come out to show support for Donald Trump.
And again, like early voting has already started last weekend,
the last day, Election day is on Tuesday, coming up,
and so I just want to make sure that we
have real information out there so that we can see
what's really happening. Like you said, you were New York
City City Council, but then now you are the public
(01:55):
advocate of the City of New York. You and Mayor
Eric Adams, he used to get along really well when
he was Brooklyn Borough president.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Right, you had a decent relationship.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
No, I had a good relationship with Eric Alban who's
ball president, but that's not that Eric Adams is here now,
so that makes things harder. I will say he has
rolled the train of being the second black elected mayor
as both as a tool to harm communities as in
a shield to prevent criticism. But that's off the track
(02:25):
right now. Like he has gone so far. It is disgraceful,
to be quite honest, And I'm just talking about the
indictment stuff. I think for the indictments, you know, he
has a right to be innocent before proven guilty and
a vigorous defense. But even when you look at what
we all agree happened at minimum, there is a long
(02:46):
history of poor judgment, and I think I see some
of that in his refusal to denounce anything that Trump says,
Like he can't find anything bad to say that about
Donald Trump, and he has received and accepted all of
the great things that Donald Trump is saying about him.
Now for a so called democratic mayor to try to say, look,
(03:06):
I don't like what we said at a rally, but
won't say anything about Donald Trump and will receive, you know,
compliments from Trump, won't mention the name Kamala Harris is disgraceful,
and so I think if he wanted to be a
you know, black for Trump Maga Republican, he should have
stayed as a Republican, which he was.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Now. He hasn't said though that he's supporting Donald Trump, Yes,
but has he said that he's supporting Kamala Harris.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
He has said that. I believe once he refuses to
say it again, he won't mention her name. And what
is just shocking to me is, regardless of any of that,
you have said more bad things about the Biden Harris
presidency than you have about Trump. And at minimum, for
a Democratic mayor who cannot find one thing negative to
(03:51):
say about Donald Trump, especially after that rally and MSG
the person who created the atmosphere for all the rhetoric
that we heard, it's disgraceful for a Democratic mayor of
a city like New York who can't do that, and
he should be ashamed.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
And I've seen you very vocal on social media talking
about Donald Trump's rally and the hateful rhetoric that was
said there, and those Trumpers will come for you also, right,
So how has that been for you? Because as a
person and I will say because I looked at some things.
I'm always looking to see what people are saying online.
You know, they refer to you as like a far left,
(04:28):
and they come at you hard and strong. But you
know that's part of I know, you know, speaking the
way that you do, that's what comes with the territory. Unfortunately,
it's not like a helpful conversation.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Ever.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, I hang out on the left. Got no problems
with that, so you know, I'm not ashamed of that.
I happen to be pretty pragmatic. I call myself a
pragmatic optimist. And what I have to remember and is
it's for the Trump folks as well. You go back
to nineteen thirty nine when you had the twenty thousand
people in Madison Square Garden, Nazi regime speaking. All those
(05:02):
twenty thousand people were not Nazis or Nazi sympathizing. They
were people who had real anger, real concern, real fears,
and unfortunately leaders exploited that. I don't believe all of
the people who at MSG first, most of them they
come from New York City. But I don't believe all
those people are Nazi sympathizers or racists. All those things
(05:24):
that were said. I believe that there are a lot
of folks who are angry, who are concerned, who are fearful,
and both parties have ignored them for a very long time.
And when that happens, someone like a Donald Trump in
history can actually exploit that, and it's a dangerous thing.
When that happens.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
People are and I see this rhetoric that is black
men that are supporting Donald Trump in huge numbers and
not coming out and supporting Kamala Harris the way that
they should.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Sometimes I see things and I don't know if it's true.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I see a lot of headlines and I see stories
that contradict each other. What do you you know from
your side from the position that you're in as far
as black men and why they're supporting Donald Trump or
if they really are.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
So, I believe that there are more black men than
we would have liked it at percentage wise. But I'll
tell you the vast majority of black men are going
to do with the vast majority of black women are.
They're going to both for kama has That is the facts.
There are more than I think normal, and particularly see
some high profile folks on social media really pushing it.
(06:28):
I'm concerned that Eric Adams may actually be one of them,
the way he's really defending the horrible things that Trump
are doing. But again, I think it is the fact
that the God's honest truth is Democratic Party has ignored
a lot of folks. I'm a Democrat. I have a
problem with the party in the way they've handled things.
I don't think they've done the things that they said
they were going to do. And I think black folks
(06:49):
have a right to be angry. Black men have a
right to be angry. What I do know, though, is
when you have a choice between someone like Kamala and Walls,
who you can push, can try to persuade to do
the right thing, and someone else who's going to say
I'm going to use the United States military to crush
any dissent, that's a hell of a difference. There's no comparison.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, that's I want to say this though.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
You know when we say that, wouldn't you say it's
not just the Democratic Party that hasn't delivered, But it's
also because a lot of times you do get stuck,
right with Congress not allowing things to pass, with a
lot of times like we're not going to help. As
far as with immigration laws, We're going to make sure
that that doesn't go anywhere in Congress. There's a lot
of things that also just weren't able to happen because
(07:36):
of the way the system is set up.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Politics is tricky, the system is difficult to move, particularly
move a big ship. And I think both parties have
had problems and focused more on incumbency protection right and
actually getting what's right for the people, and that has
been a problem in both parties. But if the Democrat
Party has not delivered what the things they said, the
(08:00):
Republican Party absolutely won't like they don't they won't.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Even say that they attending that that's what they want, right.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
And that's the fact. So I am tired of this.
You know, we've got to vote this person because this
person is less evil or something like that, and we
got we got to stop that. I don't know how
many times I can do that, but I know right
now there are clear differences in what one person wants
my young daughters to be able to do when it
comes to every protectively retuctive health right. The fact the
man has said we are going to jail our enemies
(08:28):
with the longest terms we've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Oh my god, this is right, and we're talking about
prison reform, and then you have somebody saying.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
We're gonna this is wild. Yeah, it is very wild.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
But you know what we sometimes forget is that again,
the folks who are supporting Trump, like not everybody are.
They're not monsters. They're people who are have had their
own trauma and who have been ignored for a very
long time.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It may be misinformed because they also are listening to
too many different there's so many things that are like
they get fact checked.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
This is not you, this is not you. This is
not true.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
He said, this is not true, but people won't see
the fact check and asked.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
At some point when you sometimes you're you've been in spot.
Your anger is actually blinding you. So they're blinded by
their hurt and by the trauma. They're not they're not
trying to and this is what folks want to do.
They want to sometimes they just want to put so
much wrong out there that you're even confused if the
sky is blue like they want, and and there's been
some success there, I'm hoping what happened in Mstry would
(09:26):
have backfired in some ways because they went they went
too far.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And like, I don't know the guy. I don't know
the comedian, but he's representing you at your rally.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So and he didn't denounce that.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, and you're not saying that was awful.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
And it wasn't just every acting like one. The one
joke about Puerto Rico was they.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Said a lot. They said a lot, they said a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
It wasn't even just a comedian, it was a whole lot.
It was a whole lot of people.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
And that's why they have a mayor who represents the
city who cannot say that the man who created the
atmosphere there's any problems with him. Is concerning to me
because I understand why, like inciting a writer, I can't
blame the people who responded. You want to blame the
leader who incited it. And so you can't just say
that what happened in Dusty's a problem without talking about
(10:07):
the man who's actually creating an atmosphere for this to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Right, And I want to talk about Eric Adams for
a second now, because he's being investigated. Some people feel
like the governor has I don't know if the governor
does have the power to remove him from office. But
Governor Kathy Hoko has not done that. If she does
or doesn't have the power, you know, I'm not sure,
But what do you think? And people want him to
step down, and clearly he's not planning to step down
(10:33):
at any point. So what do you think is ultimately
from what you know from the inside, going to happen.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
With this investigation?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Because I've heard and I saw Donald Trump said this
su so he got some upgrades and you know, so
so one I want to be playing upgrades in some rooms.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I try to be careful why I say, you know,
I'm actually next to line if something would have happened,
yes she was, or so I want to you know,
just put that out there. The governor does have the
ability to remove the mayor. I think right now she's
probably making the correct decision. I will say, I try
to separate conversations that I think people intentionally try to
bring together. The first is he has a right not
(11:11):
just to legal defense, but a vigorous defense. Want we
never want to take that away from anybody. So he
has not been proven guilty of anything, and that is
that is up to the federal government to prove the case.
Separate from that, separate from in criminality. What we agree
happened shows remarkably poor judgment for a remarkably consistently long time,
(11:33):
and that is something that voters and residents in New
York City have a right to ask, why is this
poor judgment here for this long of a time period.
And that doesn't need to be intertwined with criminality, But
I think some folks and that may include may want
to mix the two, but we should separate it out.
It's a criminal and then well, why are you doing
this stuff in the first place, Like this is stuff
(11:55):
that you just didn't have to do. And there's a
consistency not just on what that as to talking about,
but what's been seen to be pervasive throughout an administration
that he put together. The amount of investigations, the amount
of questions, the amount of concerns. It's not a sustainable
thing for the city government. So I have not and
I'm still not saying that he should resign, but I
(12:18):
think he should if he had any kind of humidity
about this, ask himself what is actually best for the
City of New York At this point, I'm not sure
that that's what matters to him, based on the way
I see him hand on Donald Trump. I think he's
concerned what's best for Eric Adams, and that is just
(12:38):
a sad place. It has been hard to watch this
happen in real time, particularly with people that I know.
But I'm at a point where that train of what
he's used as a weapon and a tool, being the
second black elected official, I think he's marred and disgraced
the memory of David Dinkins and the gorgeous mosic that
he spoke about.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Do you think that because he is a blacklack mayor
and like we said, the second black mayor that this
city has had, that it has made him more of
a target though.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Well, so one you can ask yourself if the poor
judgment that we all agree happened, did it rise to
the level of federal indictments. That's another question, and that's
a legitimate question to ask. I would say two things
can be true at the same time. So one is,
if you are I believe, a black elected official, if
you're a woman elected official, if you're other than what
most people normally if man, yes, you will be treated differently.
(13:31):
That is a fact of life. And you could do
stupid issue at the same time. So both of those
things can be true all at the same time. Again,
if someone else had this poor judgment, would they be
treated the same? The answer might be no. I don't
know the answer, but you didn't need to do this stuff,
and why are you doing it? Like, we had an
awesome opportunity in New York City to put down an
(13:54):
infrastructure of public safety that him and I and others
had been discussing for a very long time. Human beings
are complex I have complexities, so I expect those complexities
to show up. I didn't you know. I was hoping
more of the Eric Adams who was one hundred blacks
and law enforcements show up. But we get almost all
Republican cop Like we should get the complexities of who
(14:16):
you are, and that's not what I think we've seen
for the past. Thing.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
You know, like you said, you are next in line
if something should happen, if he gets removed from if
he decides to step aside, whatever, right, so you would
be then mayor. You would be the person that would
be acting mayor of the city. What are some of
the things that you would do in that position that's
not being done now?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Well, I would be the acting mayor for about eighty
or ninety days, okay, And at that time period, there's
really only one job, which is to make sure everyone
knows that the city's going to continue that three on
one calls here in New York City, that's what you
call if you have a complaint.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, I don't have to call it.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah yeah, yeah, we all call. I've called a mom.
Now on one calls will get picked up. Through one
calls get picked up, sanitation will get picked up. So
that's really the job for those eighty or ninety days.
And then I have to call a special election, and
if I chose to run, then I'll explain what it
is I want to see happen and what I'd like
to do. But I've been doing that as public advocate.
(15:12):
I've been putting what I think this city should be
pushing toward for as public advocate and as city council.
And so I've been in city governor now for about
fourteen years.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Is it weird to think about being on the other
side too, because you know, obviously city council versus the mayor,
there's going to be times you agree, but a lot
of times that you guys have to check each other right,
And so.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Being mayor is a hard job. Period, Like I've never
even when I'm criticized mayor or mayor, I've always said one,
this is a very difficult job, and so I always
question why people are going after the job that really
understand the weight of this job. It is a very
difficult job in a way that nothing else is. Really
You probably have president and then mayor of New York
(15:57):
City as the two most difficult jobs. And the balance
of power that exist as the council and the mayor
is an important one that has to exist. I or
have always tried to serve and do things in community
and in conjunction with the folks. So I'm proud as
Public Aviagate we've passed more bills than the public avacates combined.
(16:19):
That's only through partnership with the city Council. My record
and legislative as a council member was had a pretty
high record as well. I think only the speaker had
more as well. That's only through collaboration. That's that's the
only way I know how to move, and that's probably
I'm an organizer, commune organizer by training.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Now listen, I see you outside for quite some time
for over a decade now, so that I can't appreciate.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
So the question is, and I've always said, we should
let people who believe the seat that they're holding is
not more important than people representing okay, and so I
try to move that way. I'm not holy now, so
I'm in the game. I'm not gonna act like I
don't do nothing. But I think my my my track record,
my batting average in trying to make sure I'm focused
(17:03):
on what people do need most is a pretty good one.
And so I want to I would bring that too,
And I know that the Council is my partners and
haven't been in there serving there been successful there. I
think would make things, you know, move a little smoother.
But that's so many steps down the line, so many
things that have to happen right now. I think really
the message for me is make sure that we thank
(17:24):
the hundreds of thousands of public sector workers who are
going to work every day very concerned about what's happening,
and they're still keeping the city moving, and let them
know that we thank them and there is a plan
in place for every eventuality well.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
As a New Yorker, I have some questions now Okay,
so let's just say you do become mayor after all
of this, right, run for up has become mayor, what
are some things that you think needs to happen, because
there are some things like again immigration, that was a
number one issue that we've been having in the city.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
So what are some solutions that you.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
See there with the immigration. It's interesting, you know, you
have to say that some of what the mayor was saying,
how we said it is two different things. There was
a federal response that we never got and we should
have gotten. There was a response from the state that
we should have got and never gotten. The city can't
solve this problem by itself and we shouldn't have had to.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Right, and they were laws in place where you had
to house people, you had to make sure they ate.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, they're called human human things that human beings need exactly,
so they're actually very helpful what has happened. Unfortunately, Mayor
was a part of this less so now, but definitely
a few years ago of pitting people against each other,
and so have I understand very much why long term
New Yorkers, particularly black and brown folks, are angry, and
(18:39):
I want them to stay angry. Actually, be angry that
you didn't get what you were supposed to get. I
just don't want you to fall in trap of blaming
it on people who had nothing to do with that.
And so we found maybe five billions six spend the
pen a billion dollars to spend on on New new Yorkers.
Anybody like that. Man, we shouldn't spend that. We should
spend that and that. And I have to say, do
you know how I know that they they would not
(19:00):
spend that on you because they didn't These migrants weren't
here before the day before the first bus came, there
were one hundred sixty five thousand long time New Yorkers
in the shelter system who had been there for years.
So the things that I and others have been pushing
were to help long term New Yorkers. We have been
(19:21):
saying that we have this money to house long term
New Yorkers. We have this money to make sure they're
getting the education, their healthcare that they need. We have
this money to pay them more to pay for these things.
So don't let the leaders who blocked us from getting
that money to you now tell you that the reason
is because they're migrants here. Because it's just not a
true statement. Now, if the problems that existed before they
(19:44):
were here are made slightly worse because of here, that
is true. But had we solved those issues, we wouldn't
have those issues. And if we were getting more help
from these places like the federal government, like the state,
it also would be helpful. So I just try to
make sure we don't have folks pitting people who have
very little against people who have none when the people
who make the decisions can actually provide for all of us.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Now, affordable housing another huge issue here in New York City.
So what are some things And I'm just saying this
to you because I know you know we don't know law,
and I know this is something that is also what
you deal with now, what you've been supporting.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, Like I started out my organizing as a tenant organizing,
so trying to deal with housing across the across the country.
When I ran for governor, we were saying we need
one hundred thousand new units of I'm sorry, a million
new units across the country, and we said half of
them should be here. So there's a plan to actually
get some of them here. Now, I would say a
few things one, No housing plan is real unless you
(20:42):
talk about preservation. So we want to talk about preserving
the units that we have. That includes laws, which is
you know, can't talk about here, but there was a
law to try to help prevent folks from getting friviously evicted.
May Adams did not support that. We want to make
sure that rents don't go up as high under Mayor,
this is legitimate. We've had two of the heightsment increases
(21:04):
that we've had in the past twenty years, and so
we can't have policies and laws that are not helping
with preserving what we have already. Not just a whole
nother question that need eighty billion dollars. We can have
a whole show on that. Now we also have to
build housing. We have to have new units of housing. Period.
But when I ask three questions to most communities, and
(21:25):
I'll ask you and anybody who's listening, do you believe
that housing and homelessness is one of the top issues
in New York City? Everybody raising do you believe that
to address that, we need housing at the price point
that people can afford. Everybody raising hand? Who wants to
live next to a taller building? Right nobody raising right,
and so we often know what we need to do,
(21:46):
we just don't want it around us.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, like they're saying that in my backyard, right. And
you know what is also too, though, is I guess
what we're trying to do with a lot of these
office buildings that aren't being used, to try to change
what the laws are on the permitting that you're allowed
to make maybe some of that into correct affordable housing.
So there's definitely things.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And so I absolutely support that there are units that
people have been using for a while, and the basements
and the addicts that we need.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
They talking about the small homes in the backyard too,
that you can now, we got to figure.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Something that out. But we also have to build. And
so we're only in New York City because we built
up and built a subway system. And if we looked
the way we did a hundred years ago, we wouldn't
be here. If the way we do now in one hundred years,
our children would fail. The way we have to move forward,
those ask communities, look, let's figure out what community you
want to preserve a part of it. But in exchange
(22:34):
for that, you have to somewhere tell us where to
give some density, and that density can't just be all
market and luxury housing.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
It has to be and I think with most new
buildings that are going up a portion of that does
have to be that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But what they call affordable don't be affordable. So you
can call whatever something affordable to everybody. We need income
targeted affordable housing for people at the lower echellonce and
so the city if yes, it's something you might hear about.
I think it's the right framework that are trying to
push through. There are some definite tweaks that have to
happen now, and city Council is actually doing a very
good job listening to the community because you don't want
(23:07):
to ignore what the community.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Definitely can't do that, but.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
You also know that if every community says no, that
means yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
It's important to educate people too, because a lot of
times people go about hearsay or maybe they're you know,
you have to be involved in your community to be
able to have a say.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
That's why voting is important too.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
It's really important and knowing who you're voting for in
local elections, not just the president.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
But I don't want to oversell it like I don't
like I have a problem with our economic capitalist system.
I just have a problem with it because I think
it's inequitable. But I don't tell people don't get a
job and make as much money you can. So I
have a problem with our system of government. But I'm
not gonna tell you not to vote. That's a tool.
I not use a tool that you Okay, I'm not
gonna tell you're gonna save help everything in the world.
(23:49):
But if you don't use that tool, you're letting somebody
else use it, and their tool now is going to
be that much stronger because you.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Didn't use your voice right, and then you're gonna complain
but you didn't even do nothing.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Do something.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
All right, Well, listen, I know you have to go,
but I'm hopeful that you'll come back and we'll have
more conversations because I think it's important. But I appreciate
all the work that you've been doing. I'm definitely early voting,
so make sure if you guys have not voted yet,
you go and do that.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Tuesday is the last get the ballot.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
You got amendments on the back of that ballot, and
we're telling people vote yes on one and two to six.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And I'm gonna keep on saying this. Make sure that
you go and look it up online so you know
before you get there what is on the ballot, so
that when you go there you can just zip right
through it.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
That's a fact, all right. Jimani Williams, thank you so much.
We appreciate you.
What's up?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Its way up with Angela Yee and what a pleasure
to be joined by Jimani Williams, the Public Advocate of
the City of New York.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's nice to see you here.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Some blessings. Great to see you. Thank you, thanks for
having me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I have a Jumani Williams.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Actually, yeah, proclamation from you, which I still appreciate so
much for me to this day. Shirley Chisholm is definitely
somebody who's one of my top heroes.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
That's what's up. Yeah, I was in the council. It
was a shirty Chishlm Awards. Oh yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Thank you, and you know, just to see how far
I mean, you've been going, but just to see how
much you want to be public advocate again, like in
a landslide victory. I remember during that time too, you
were mulling over running for governor.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, yeah, we ran, we got we got kind of
smacked them on for governor. We ran, but we came second.
So people people forget that we ran with no money.
We ran against people had fifteen million and ten million
we have five hundred thousand.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
People don't understand how much money matters. When it comes
to an action, because also it's hard to get people
to donate money too.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
That's a really difficult thing to do.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
And I usually have the ability to campaign more. I mean,
it's another story. But during that time, a lot of
people prayed for us. But my wife has several with cancer.
Baby girl was born two months early. She's cancer free.
Now baby's doing great. That's the most important family first.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
But you know, well, let's talk about everything that's been
going on, because we see that Donald Trump had a
rally in Madison Square Garden.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You know, he is from New York.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So I'm not claiming him, but he is.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And people did come out to show support for Donald Trump.
And again, like early voting has already started last weekend,
the last day, Election day is on Tuesday, coming up,
and so I just want to make sure that we
have real information out there so that we can see
what's really happening. Like you said, you were New York
City City Council, but then now you are the public
(01:55):
advocate of the City of New York. You and Mayor
Eric Adams, he used to get along really well when
he was Brooklyn Borough president.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Right, you had a decent relationship.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
No, I had a good relationship with Eric Alban who's
ball president, but that's not that Eric Adams is here now,
so that makes things harder. I will say he has
rolled the train of being the second black elected mayor
as both as a tool to harm communities as in
a shield to prevent criticism. But that's off the track
(02:25):
right now. Like he has gone so far. It is disgraceful,
to be quite honest, And I'm just talking about the
indictment stuff. I think for the indictments, you know, he
has a right to be innocent before proven guilty and
a vigorous defense. But even when you look at what
we all agree happened at minimum, there is a long
(02:46):
history of poor judgment, and I think I see some
of that in his refusal to denounce anything that Trump says,
Like he can't find anything bad to say that about
Donald Trump, and he has received and accepted all of
the great things that Donald Trump is saying about him.
Now for a so called democratic mayor to try to say, look,
(03:06):
I don't like what we said at a rally, but
won't say anything about Donald Trump and will receive, you know,
compliments from Trump, won't mention the name Kamala Harris is disgraceful,
and so I think if he wanted to be a
you know, black for Trump Maga Republican, he should have
stayed as a Republican, which he was.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Now. He hasn't said though that he's supporting Donald Trump, Yes,
but has he said that he's supporting Kamala Harris.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
He has said that. I believe once he refuses to
say it again, he won't mention her name. And what
is just shocking to me is, regardless of any of that,
you have said more bad things about the Biden Harris
presidency than you have about Trump. And at minimum, for
a Democratic mayor who cannot find one thing negative to
(03:51):
say about Donald Trump, especially after that rally and MSG
the person who created the atmosphere for all the rhetoric
that we heard, it's disgraceful for a Democratic mayor of
a city like New York who can't do that, and
he should be ashamed.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
And I've seen you very vocal on social media talking
about Donald Trump's rally and the hateful rhetoric that was
said there, and those Trumpers will come for you also, right,
So how has that been for you? Because as a
person and I will say because I looked at some things.
I'm always looking to see what people are saying online.
You know, they refer to you as like a far left,
(04:28):
and they come at you hard and strong. But you
know that's part of I know, you know, speaking the
way that you do, that's what comes with the territory. Unfortunately,
it's not like a helpful conversation.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Ever.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, I hang out on the left. Got no problems
with that, so you know, I'm not ashamed of that.
I happen to be pretty pragmatic. I call myself a
pragmatic optimist. And what I have to remember and is
it's for the Trump folks as well. You go back
to nineteen thirty nine when you had the twenty thousand
people in Madison Square Garden, Nazi regime speaking. All those
(05:02):
twenty thousand people were not Nazis or Nazi sympathizing. They
were people who had real anger, real concern, real fears,
and unfortunately leaders exploited that. I don't believe all of
the people who at MSG first, most of them they
come from New York City. But I don't believe all
those people are Nazi sympathizers or racists. All those things
(05:24):
that were said. I believe that there are a lot
of folks who are angry, who are concerned, who are fearful,
and both parties have ignored them for a very long time.
And when that happens, someone like a Donald Trump in
history can actually exploit that, and it's a dangerous thing.
When that happens.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
People are and I see this rhetoric that is black
men that are supporting Donald Trump in huge numbers and
not coming out and supporting Kamala Harris the way that
they should.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Sometimes I see things and I don't know if it's true.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I see a lot of headlines and I see stories
that contradict each other. What do you you know from
your side from the position that you're in as far
as black men and why they're supporting Donald Trump or
if they really are.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
So, I believe that there are more black men than
we would have liked it at percentage wise. But I'll
tell you the vast majority of black men are going
to do with the vast majority of black women are.
They're going to both for kama has That is the facts.
There are more than I think normal, and particularly see
some high profile folks on social media really pushing it.
(06:28):
I'm concerned that Eric Adams may actually be one of them,
the way he's really defending the horrible things that Trump
are doing. But again, I think it is the fact
that the God's honest truth is Democratic Party has ignored
a lot of folks. I'm a Democrat. I have a
problem with the party in the way they've handled things.
I don't think they've done the things that they said
they were going to do. And I think black folks
(06:49):
have a right to be angry. Black men have a
right to be angry. What I do know, though, is
when you have a choice between someone like Kamala and Walls,
who you can push, can try to persuade to do
the right thing, and someone else who's going to say
I'm going to use the United States military to crush
any dissent, that's a hell of a difference. There's no comparison.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, that's I want to say this though.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
You know when we say that, wouldn't you say it's
not just the Democratic Party that hasn't delivered, But it's
also because a lot of times you do get stuck,
right with Congress not allowing things to pass, with a
lot of times like we're not going to help. As
far as with immigration laws, We're going to make sure
that that doesn't go anywhere in Congress. There's a lot
of things that also just weren't able to happen because
(07:36):
of the way the system is set up.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Politics is tricky, the system is difficult to move, particularly
move a big ship. And I think both parties have
had problems and focused more on incumbency protection right and
actually getting what's right for the people, and that has
been a problem in both parties. But if the Democrat
Party has not delivered what the things they said, the
(08:00):
Republican Party absolutely won't like they don't they won't.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Even say that they attending that that's what they want, right.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
And that's the fact. So I am tired of this.
You know, we've got to vote this person because this
person is less evil or something like that, and we
got we got to stop that. I don't know how
many times I can do that, but I know right
now there are clear differences in what one person wants
my young daughters to be able to do when it
comes to every protectively retuctive health right. The fact the
man has said we are going to jail our enemies
(08:28):
with the longest terms we've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Oh my god, this is right, and we're talking about
prison reform, and then you have somebody saying.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
We're gonna this is wild. Yeah, it is very wild.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
But you know what we sometimes forget is that again,
the folks who are supporting Trump, like not everybody are.
They're not monsters. They're people who are have had their
own trauma and who have been ignored for a very
long time.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It may be misinformed because they also are listening to
too many different there's so many things that are like
they get fact checked.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
This is not you, this is not you. This is
not true.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
He said, this is not true, but people won't see
the fact check and asked.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
At some point when you sometimes you're you've been in spot.
Your anger is actually blinding you. So they're blinded by
their hurt and by the trauma. They're not they're not
trying to and this is what folks want to do.
They want to sometimes they just want to put so
much wrong out there that you're even confused if the
sky is blue like they want, and and there's been
some success there, I'm hoping what happened in Mstry would
(09:26):
have backfired in some ways because they went they went
too far.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And like, I don't know the guy. I don't know
the comedian, but he's representing you at your rally.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So and he didn't denounce that.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, and you're not saying that was awful.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
And it wasn't just every acting like one. The one
joke about Puerto Rico was they.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Said a lot. They said a lot, they said a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
It wasn't even just a comedian, it was a whole lot.
It was a whole lot of people.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
And that's why they have a mayor who represents the
city who cannot say that the man who created the
atmosphere there's any problems with him. Is concerning to me
because I understand why, like inciting a writer, I can't
blame the people who responded. You want to blame the
leader who incited it. And so you can't just say
that what happened in Dusty's a problem without talking about
(10:07):
the man who's actually creating an atmosphere for this to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Right, And I want to talk about Eric Adams for
a second now, because he's being investigated. Some people feel
like the governor has I don't know if the governor
does have the power to remove him from office. But
Governor Kathy Hoko has not done that. If she does
or doesn't have the power, you know, I'm not sure,
But what do you think? And people want him to
step down, and clearly he's not planning to step down
(10:33):
at any point. So what do you think is ultimately
from what you know from the inside, going to happen.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
With this investigation?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Because I've heard and I saw Donald Trump said this
su so he got some upgrades and you know, so
so one I want to be playing upgrades in some rooms.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I try to be careful why I say, you know,
I'm actually next to line if something would have happened,
yes she was, or so I want to you know,
just put that out there. The governor does have the
ability to remove the mayor. I think right now she's
probably making the correct decision. I will say, I try
to separate conversations that I think people intentionally try to
bring together. The first is he has a right not
(11:11):
just to legal defense, but a vigorous defense. Want we
never want to take that away from anybody. So he
has not been proven guilty of anything, and that is
that is up to the federal government to prove the case.
Separate from that, separate from in criminality. What we agree
happened shows remarkably poor judgment for a remarkably consistently long time,
(11:33):
and that is something that voters and residents in New
York City have a right to ask, why is this
poor judgment here for this long of a time period.
And that doesn't need to be intertwined with criminality, But
I think some folks and that may include may want
to mix the two, but we should separate it out.
It's a criminal and then well, why are you doing
this stuff in the first place, Like this is stuff
(11:55):
that you just didn't have to do. And there's a
consistency not just on what that as to talking about,
but what's been seen to be pervasive throughout an administration
that he put together. The amount of investigations, the amount
of questions, the amount of concerns. It's not a sustainable
thing for the city government. So I have not and
I'm still not saying that he should resign, but I
(12:18):
think he should if he had any kind of humidity
about this, ask himself what is actually best for the
City of New York At this point, I'm not sure
that that's what matters to him, based on the way
I see him hand on Donald Trump. I think he's
concerned what's best for Eric Adams, and that is just
(12:38):
a sad place. It has been hard to watch this
happen in real time, particularly with people that I know.
But I'm at a point where that train of what
he's used as a weapon and a tool, being the
second black elected official, I think he's marred and disgraced
the memory of David Dinkins and the gorgeous mosic that
he spoke about.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Do you think that because he is a blacklack mayor
and like we said, the second black mayor that this
city has had, that it has made him more of
a target though.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Well, so one you can ask yourself if the poor
judgment that we all agree happened, did it rise to
the level of federal indictments. That's another question, and that's
a legitimate question to ask. I would say two things
can be true at the same time. So one is,
if you are I believe, a black elected official, if
you're a woman elected official, if you're other than what
most people normally if man, yes, you will be treated differently.
(13:31):
That is a fact of life. And you could do
stupid issue at the same time. So both of those
things can be true all at the same time. Again,
if someone else had this poor judgment, would they be
treated the same? The answer might be no. I don't
know the answer, but you didn't need to do this stuff,
and why are you doing it? Like, we had an
awesome opportunity in New York City to put down an
(13:54):
infrastructure of public safety that him and I and others
had been discussing for a very long time. Human beings
are complex I have complexities, so I expect those complexities
to show up. I didn't you know. I was hoping
more of the Eric Adams who was one hundred blacks
and law enforcements show up. But we get almost all
Republican cop Like we should get the complexities of who
(14:16):
you are, and that's not what I think we've seen
for the past. Thing.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
You know, like you said, you are next in line
if something should happen, if he gets removed from if
he decides to step aside, whatever, right, so you would
be then mayor. You would be the person that would
be acting mayor of the city. What are some of
the things that you would do in that position that's
not being done now?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Well, I would be the acting mayor for about eighty
or ninety days, okay, And at that time period, there's
really only one job, which is to make sure everyone
knows that the city's going to continue that three on
one calls here in New York City, that's what you
call if you have a complaint.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, I don't have to call it.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah yeah, yeah, we all call. I've called a mom.
Now on one calls will get picked up. Through one
calls get picked up, sanitation will get picked up. So
that's really the job for those eighty or ninety days.
And then I have to call a special election, and
if I chose to run, then I'll explain what it
is I want to see happen and what I'd like
to do. But I've been doing that as public advocate.
(15:12):
I've been putting what I think this city should be
pushing toward for as public advocate and as city council.
And so I've been in city governor now for about
fourteen years.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Is it weird to think about being on the other
side too, because you know, obviously city council versus the mayor,
there's going to be times you agree, but a lot
of times that you guys have to check each other right,
And so.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Being mayor is a hard job. Period, Like I've never
even when I'm criticized mayor or mayor, I've always said one,
this is a very difficult job, and so I always
question why people are going after the job that really
understand the weight of this job. It is a very
difficult job in a way that nothing else is. Really
You probably have president and then mayor of New York
(15:57):
City as the two most difficult jobs. And the balance
of power that exist as the council and the mayor
is an important one that has to exist. I or
have always tried to serve and do things in community
and in conjunction with the folks. So I'm proud as
Public Aviagate we've passed more bills than the public avacates combined.
(16:19):
That's only through partnership with the city Council. My record
and legislative as a council member was had a pretty
high record as well. I think only the speaker had
more as well. That's only through collaboration. That's that's the
only way I know how to move, and that's probably
I'm an organizer, commune organizer by training.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Now listen, I see you outside for quite some time
for over a decade now, so that I can't appreciate.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
So the question is, and I've always said, we should
let people who believe the seat that they're holding is
not more important than people representing okay, and so I
try to move that way. I'm not holy now, so
I'm in the game. I'm not gonna act like I
don't do nothing. But I think my my my track record,
my batting average in trying to make sure I'm focused
(17:03):
on what people do need most is a pretty good one.
And so I want to I would bring that too,
And I know that the Council is my partners and
haven't been in there serving there been successful there. I
think would make things, you know, move a little smoother.
But that's so many steps down the line, so many
things that have to happen right now. I think really
the message for me is make sure that we thank
(17:24):
the hundreds of thousands of public sector workers who are
going to work every day very concerned about what's happening,
and they're still keeping the city moving, and let them
know that we thank them and there is a plan
in place for every eventuality well.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
As a New Yorker, I have some questions now Okay,
so let's just say you do become mayor after all
of this, right, run for up has become mayor, what
are some things that you think needs to happen, because
there are some things like again immigration, that was a
number one issue that we've been having in the city.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
So what are some solutions that you.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
See there with the immigration. It's interesting, you know, you
have to say that some of what the mayor was saying,
how we said it is two different things. There was
a federal response that we never got and we should
have gotten. There was a response from the state that
we should have got and never gotten. The city can't
solve this problem by itself and we shouldn't have had to.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Right, and they were laws in place where you had
to house people, you had to make sure they ate.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, they're called human human things that human beings need exactly,
so they're actually very helpful what has happened. Unfortunately, Mayor
was a part of this less so now, but definitely
a few years ago of pitting people against each other,
and so have I understand very much why long term
New Yorkers, particularly black and brown folks, are angry, and
(18:39):
I want them to stay angry. Actually, be angry that
you didn't get what you were supposed to get. I
just don't want you to fall in trap of blaming
it on people who had nothing to do with that.
And so we found maybe five billions six spend the
pen a billion dollars to spend on on New new Yorkers.
Anybody like that. Man, we shouldn't spend that. We should
spend that and that. And I have to say, do
you know how I know that they they would not
(19:00):
spend that on you because they didn't These migrants weren't
here before the day before the first bus came, there
were one hundred sixty five thousand long time New Yorkers
in the shelter system who had been there for years.
So the things that I and others have been pushing
were to help long term New Yorkers. We have been
(19:21):
saying that we have this money to house long term
New Yorkers. We have this money to make sure they're
getting the education, their healthcare that they need. We have
this money to pay them more to pay for these things.
So don't let the leaders who blocked us from getting
that money to you now tell you that the reason
is because they're migrants here. Because it's just not a
true statement. Now, if the problems that existed before they
(19:44):
were here are made slightly worse because of here, that
is true. But had we solved those issues, we wouldn't
have those issues. And if we were getting more help
from these places like the federal government, like the state,
it also would be helpful. So I just try to
make sure we don't have folks pitting people who have
very little against people who have none when the people
who make the decisions can actually provide for all of us.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Now, affordable housing another huge issue here in New York City.
So what are some things And I'm just saying this
to you because I know you know we don't know law,
and I know this is something that is also what
you deal with now, what you've been supporting.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Yeah, Like I started out my organizing as a tenant organizing,
so trying to deal with housing across the across the country.
When I ran for governor, we were saying we need
one hundred thousand new units of I'm sorry, a million
new units across the country, and we said half of
them should be here. So there's a plan to actually
get some of them here. Now, I would say a
few things one, No housing plan is real unless you
(20:42):
talk about preservation. So we want to talk about preserving
the units that we have. That includes laws, which is
you know, can't talk about here, but there was a
law to try to help prevent folks from getting friviously evicted.
May Adams did not support that. We want to make
sure that rents don't go up as high under Mayor,
this is legitimate. We've had two of the heightsment increases
(21:04):
that we've had in the past twenty years, and so
we can't have policies and laws that are not helping
with preserving what we have already. Not just a whole
nother question that need eighty billion dollars. We can have
a whole show on that. Now we also have to
build housing. We have to have new units of housing. Period.
But when I ask three questions to most communities, and
(21:25):
I'll ask you and anybody who's listening, do you believe
that housing and homelessness is one of the top issues
in New York City? Everybody raising do you believe that
to address that, we need housing at the price point
that people can afford. Everybody raising hand? Who wants to
live next to a taller building? Right nobody raising right,
and so we often know what we need to do,
(21:46):
we just don't want it around us.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, like they're saying that in my backyard, right. And
you know what is also too, though, is I guess
what we're trying to do with a lot of these
office buildings that aren't being used, to try to change
what the laws are on the permitting that you're allowed
to make maybe some of that into correct affordable housing.
So there's definitely things.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And so I absolutely support that there are units that
people have been using for a while, and the basements
and the addicts that we need.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
They talking about the small homes in the backyard too,
that you can now, we got to figure.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Something that out. But we also have to build. And
so we're only in New York City because we built
up and built a subway system. And if we looked
the way we did a hundred years ago, we wouldn't
be here. If the way we do now in one hundred years,
our children would fail. The way we have to move forward,
those ask communities, look, let's figure out what community you
want to preserve a part of it. But in exchange
(22:34):
for that, you have to somewhere tell us where to
give some density, and that density can't just be all
market and luxury housing.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
It has to be and I think with most new
buildings that are going up a portion of that does
have to be that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But what they call affordable don't be affordable. So you
can call whatever something affordable to everybody. We need income
targeted affordable housing for people at the lower echellonce and
so the city if yes, it's something you might hear about.
I think it's the right framework that are trying to
push through. There are some definite tweaks that have to
happen now, and city Council is actually doing a very
good job listening to the community because you don't want
(23:07):
to ignore what the community.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Definitely can't do that, but.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
You also know that if every community says no, that
means yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
It's important to educate people too, because a lot of
times people go about hearsay or maybe they're you know,
you have to be involved in your community to be
able to have a say.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
That's why voting is important too.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
It's really important and knowing who you're voting for in
local elections, not just the president.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
But I don't want to oversell it like I don't
like I have a problem with our economic capitalist system.
I just have a problem with it because I think
it's inequitable. But I don't tell people don't get a
job and make as much money you can. So I
have a problem with our system of government. But I'm
not gonna tell you not to vote. That's a tool.
I not use a tool that you Okay, I'm not
gonna tell you're gonna save help everything in the world.
(23:49):
But if you don't use that tool, you're letting somebody
else use it, and their tool now is going to
be that much stronger because you.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Didn't use your voice right, and then you're gonna complain
but you didn't even do nothing.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Do something.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
All right, Well, listen, I know you have to go,
but I'm hopeful that you'll come back and we'll have
more conversations because I think it's important. But I appreciate
all the work that you've been doing. I'm definitely early voting,
so make sure if you guys have not voted yet,
you go and do that.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Tuesday is the last get the ballot.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
You got amendments on the back of that ballot, and
we're telling people vote yes on one and two to six.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And I'm gonna keep on saying this. Make sure that
you go and look it up online so you know
before you get there what is on the ballot, so
that when you go there you can just zip right
through it.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
That's a fact, all right. Jimani Williams, thank you so much.
We appreciate you.
Host
Angela Yee
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