May 12, 2026 • 41 mins
Maya Hawke first became known to wide audiences as an actress — especially through her work in Stranger Things — but she's been quietly building a parallel life as a songwriter of genuine depth. Since her debut album Blush in 2020, she's released four records.
Her latest, Maitreya Corso, arrives at a pivotal moment: the album follows her marriage to longtime musical collaborator Christian Lee Hutson, and centers on a fictional persona through who Hawke explores ego, ambition, and the strange labor of making something. Recorded in Woodstock and New York City late last year, it's co-produced by Hutson and Jonathan Low, with cover art drawn from watercolors Maya painted herself.
On today's episode Justin Richmond sat down with Maya Hawke and her husband and co-producer Christian Lee Hutson live at SXSW to talk about the making of Maitreya Corso, and what it means to finally come together as partners in both life and work.
You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Maya Hawke and Christian Lee Hutson HERE.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Mya Hawk first became known to audiences as an actress,
especially through her work in Stranger Things and in film,
but she's been quietly building in parallel life as a
songwriter of genuine depth. Since her debut album Blush in
twenty twenty, she's released four records that are ever more reflective.
By Treya Corso, her fourth album arrives at a formative
(00:41):
moment in Hawk's life, following her marriage to longtime musical
collaborator Christian Lee Hudson. The album's built around a central
persona named my Trea Corso, who serves as a conduit
for exploring themes of ego, ambition, and creation. Recorded in
Woodstock in New York City late last year, the album's
co produced by Hudson and Jonathan Lowe, with album's artwork
(01:04):
taken from watercolor paintings made by Maya herself. On today's episode,
recorded live from South by Southwest, I sat down with
Maya Hawk and husband and co producer Christian Lee Hudson
to talk about the making of My Treo Corso. Together,
they reflect on the development of their artistic lives separately,
Maya and New York and Christian mostly in LA, but
(01:24):
also what it's like to come together as partners in
life as well as music. This is broken record, real musicians,
real conversations. Here's my interview with Maya Hawk and Christian
Lee Hudson live from south By, Southwest, Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
All right, thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Us, No, thanks for coming, Thanks for being here. It's
cool to be in Austin and south By Southwest.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It certainly is.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
This is one of my I think I'm out on
the flight here.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
There's like five American cities that feel like they have
their own internal logic different from any other.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
You know, it doesn't feel like that.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's not better then, it's just very different than any
other part of America. New Orleans feels that way. New
York feels that way. I would throw LA in the
Bay or the LA Area, the Bay Area in Austin,
you know, I feel like, just completely their own unique.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Chicago's kind of unique.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Too, are Chicago? And would agree, Yeah, you know what
that that is true? That is true, and it has
it certainly has a history.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
All those other cities do.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So I wouldn't. I wouldn't take that. How did you, guys,
just musical connections start?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
What where? How did you guys start playing.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Together via email, so I was going to say, yeah,
the Postal Service, we yeah, exactly. We have a mutual
friend named Benjaminlizzard Davis who produced my second record, Moss,
and played bass on my first record, and he knew
Christian from working on Aquaville River.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right exactly, which which you I which?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I did a tour with them and just met the
band kind of and then the guy Will the songwriter
and I wrote a few songs together cool.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And Benjamin joined them. That's he's a member.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Now he's like on again.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
It's like one of those bands like Bright Eyes, where
it's like who is the members of it?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
I don't know any who? Who's who? Round right?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right?
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Collective?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
But Will and Ben were on that tour. Will is
obviously Akuaville rover, but then there's another Will will Graffe
who's also been playing with me since I started who
We were on that tour with Christian And then I
asked Ben to work on this record with me, or
really to work on an EP. And then all of
a sudden, I had like nine more days off of
Stranger Things than I was supposed to have and was like,
(03:51):
what if instead of making an EP. We made a
record because we've got some extra time. So then we
had like two months to write six more songs. And
I was sending Ben and Will like poems every single
day and they were, I think, drowning in poems with
which to put music to, and they were and Ben
was like, can I send some of your music to
Can I send one of your poems to Christian? And
(04:11):
I never responded to the email, and then I got
an email from the purpose like no, I just am
bad at my email and uh, and I never responded
and then I got an email from Christian mean I
got your poem. And then I was so embarrassed because
I was a big fan of Christians and was like,
oh no, oh that poem that was just a first draft.
(04:32):
Please let me send you an editor. Don't work on
that yet. But we've gone back since and like read
those early emails and they're actually very sweet and they're awesome. Yeah,
they're awesome.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
So that's how he was a great first poem too.
I wouldn't. I was like, this is awesome.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Ben sends crazy emails and that was a really good one.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Because good, yeah, yeah for you did it feel like
this is maybe like the idea of it, like you're okay,
you're going to get these poems in some form and
write to them. Is that is that like a typical
process for you or did that feel like were you
surprised by how he's easy or natural?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
That process was kind of I mean I was writing.
I like to write in a lot of different ways,
and that was a really fun way to be. Like,
you know, sometimes you'll go in a room and someone
has like seventy five percent of a song and you're like, cool,
I'm just gonna throw out some like ideas for the
last twenty five percent and there this was a fun
(05:33):
way to just be like this has no music and
no you get to decide what the rules are because
it's also COVID. Yeah, so I was just sitting in
my closet like with my guitar being trying to figure
out how to what made the most sense out of
the things. So it was different and fun and immediately
I was like, send me another poem.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, And then we had really a lot of fun
and we met kind of making that record.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I want to get back to just sort of the
evolution of how you guys got to the latest record.
But I mean, it's interesting because you or maybe maybe
I'm wrong, but I'm just gonna say this, you're not
primarily like a songwriter or you were new to it
at the time, right right.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I would argue with that, I would, but I would say,
but I don't just maybe it's let.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
You up here.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yeah, I would say that is constantly writing songs.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
She writes songs every single day.
Speaker 6 (06:28):
She is a naturally in the form of like in
the absolutely I feel like before I like I am
even awake, there's like a full, like a complete song
that I'm just like, what the fuck is this?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well, okay, What I will say is that a big
part of what's happened in my own musical evolution, so
to speak, is that Christian, when we worked on Moss together,
was so encouraging and was so like, well, actually show me,
like when you wrote this poem, what music did you imagine?
And I would play it for him and you'd be like, wait,
that's good.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
What do you like?
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Why didn't we do that? And I was like, no,
it's not, it's trash. Because I was a very fortunate
young person who who was around artists my whole life.
And around amazing musicians my whole life, and people that
were so good at guitar and piano that it felt
embarrassing to pick up an instrument in front of them,
you know, and who were such extraordinary composers and instrumentalists
(07:22):
that it didn't feel like I had anything to offer.
And Christian was kind of the person that entered my
life and was like, you have something to offer, because
it is you that is offering it. It's not about
the jazz school. It's about the nature of your heart
and like the truth that you know the music and
the words and how they combined. And so that sort
(07:43):
of encouragement working on Moss kind of created Chaos Angel
in a lot of ways because that was a product
of me being like, oh, I can incorporate my own
melodies and I can write music.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And that was your third album.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So by the time you did your third album, you
did start to have more confidence in yourself as a
person who is writing songs.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Absolutely and I and like, which isn't say that I
wrote them by myself. I didn't at all, but I
would instead of coming to the table with just a
piece of paper with words on it, I would come
to the table being like, this is what I've been playing, Like,
what do you think? I really like this chorus, but
the verse melody sucks. Let's make it better. You know,
it was a sort of more. Wouldn't you say that
that's an accurate description of the vibe.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Yeah, I think that's a really accurate description. I think
that you like chronically underestimate what because most of the.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Musical you're working on it.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
I know most of the musical ideas that you have.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
I'm like, wow, this is so fucking heady and trippy, and.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
There's a certain maginner's mind when you don't know, like
what the rules are, you don't know that you're breaking.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
Them in a way very very good underc I am.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Very good at turning a compliment into an insult. It's
it's truly makes me wonderful to be around.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That is.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I'll be like, oh, so you're saying I look beautiful
by what you mean, I'm dumb? You know, It's like, really,
I'm you know, it's really there's a lot of fun
ways to sentence.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Really convoluted to go from.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
You I'm a pleasure you are actually?
Speaker 5 (09:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Is the inverse true? Like if someone says you're smart.
Do you feel like, well, why aren't you complimentary?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Come on, aren't I beautiful?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah? What do you mean?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I'm smart?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Do you know what I think about this?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
So you're saying I'm ugly?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I have three daughters.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, well one's a baby so that she doesn't really count,
but I have so two daughters are sentient in the
sense of they can understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I can kind of screw them up or or or or.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Maybe set them up for some sort of you know,
healthy life, you know, And I'm always like, oh, wow,
you look so beautiful. I'm like, oh, yeah, but you're
smart too, Like how was he like? Fuck, I shouldn't
have just said that. I'll be like, oh, you're so smart,
and I'm like, oh, I don't want her to think
she's just.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Like a nerd. Oh you're beautiful too, And I don't know.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I'm very neurotic about like balancing any compliment I make
with him.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, being a woman sucks, you know. I mean there's
just like it's like there's just like it's all bad.
Oh don't clap for that. No, it's okay, but like
it's all bad. But I will. I think as long
as neither one is that heavy, you know, I mean,
smart can be heavy. But I think it's just all
about like, Yeah, it's not about what your parents says.
(10:17):
It's about what you think they value about you. Yeah,
and like, And I think that kind of extends more broadly.
You know, your partner or your friends. It's not about
what they say to you. Like your best friend can
be like, you're such a match, and you'll be like,
I know, you know, but like that, and that's a
wonderful and it's a compliment. And so it's it's never
about what the words are. I think it's always about
the feeling behind the words. When it comes to intimate relationships.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yes, the intents, the intent or perceived intent.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
At least in terms of when there's intimacy, it's about intent. Yes,
when it's a stranger, it's about what you said.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I think generally right, Yes, that does make sense.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I mean I hadn't really thought about it or broke
it down the way, but I think that's probably accurate.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I'm curious about because you both are really you know,
potent artists and engaged artists who have had different paths,
you know, each have had your different path and they've
kind of converged in this way. But what was your
experience with the arts growing up? Like, what was your
relationship with it both in terms of how was it
introduced to you and then how.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Did it sort of evolve on your own.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
How did it become something that you sort of took
ownership of and felt like, well, this is like for me,
Like I grew up with a lot of I grew
up with my grandma who was from Detroit, So I
just grew up in Motown in the house, and I
thought to the point I thought it was new music.
But then I got to junior high, I got into
skateboarding and I was like, oh, the Ramones, like that's
my music, you know, and that sort of and then
(11:39):
you circle bas circle back at some point to Motown.
But I did, at some point sort to forge my
own identity and art outside of whatever my family thought.
We we're kind of curious how you guys, What do
you guys came up with and how you guys started
what music and art sorted to be formative in your
own sort of identity.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I'm going to set you up, and I'm going to
set you up by saying that I think that we
know positive like you see it positive, like just one.
I think the thing is cool about our friendship and
collaboration is that we had really different experiences. Like I
was drowned in the arts, and I think Christian really
had to find it on his own.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
I didn't.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I don't know if if somebody said the arts when
I was a kid, I don't know if I would
know what they were talking about. Really, there was no
like art in my life there, but there was. Weirdly,
there was Motown like a lot of My grandmother was
a record collector, but like didn't talk about the arts.
She just grew up in Chattanooga and like was loved
getting Stax records and Motown records and showed me all
(12:45):
of that and and.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
I did that take. Absolutely. I was obsessed with it.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
But I also thought it was new music, which was
very funny because I would like take it to school
and it was like wow, no one kind of knew
what I was talking about, like, oh, yeah, it's a
song from like remember the Titans or something or whatever,
and yeah, so I didn't really know about it. And
when I was like a teenager and there was an
arts program in school. I went to like a fundamentalist
(13:12):
Christian school where there was like art was like I
don't know, it's like a poem about Jesus maybe or something.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
But yeah, yeah, versus.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I went to a high school where, not while I
was there, but in its origin, the headmaster used to
take parents on school tours and say that if the
students didn't have interracial sex and tried to at least
three different drugs before they graduated, he would consider himself
a failure.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
So yeah, I had a very different headmaster.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
It's very different priorities than you, really different priorities.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
You know, he had his own issues Stanley Bosworth. But
what I mean to say generally is that I I
really was just like the arts seemed like the main option.
Like I kind of remember meeting people with other jobs
and being like what do you do and people would
tell me to be like why you know, and and
(14:02):
just like you know, a normal thing to do every
weekend was go to the Metropolitan Museum r of Art
and like go to the Nutcracker. Like it was just
like everything was art and music and film and storytelling
and so it's something really cool about getting to work
with you is to kind of combine this like art
(14:24):
as revenge and art as identity that I feel like
you hold where like I couldn't rebel by being an artist.
That was not a rebellion for me, true, but it
was for you. And I feel like I love getting
to like bring the feeling of like, no art is everywhere,
art is everything, and you can bring the like art
is rebellion, art is crazy, and we can kind of
(14:45):
combine that in a way that feels really cool.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, growing up in I mean, like you said, you
grew up steep in the arts and in New York City,
so like art probably has to go pretty far for
you to feel like it's rebellious.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Right, I Mean this walks us down a whole new
rabbit hole that we could talk about forever, which is like,
how do you make rebellious art now? How do you
make protest art?
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Now?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Don't have an answer, Like I it's very it seems
very borderline impossible because of the way that the Internet
works and the way that like moments happen and like
niche niches happen, and how difficult it. Like I was
reading something about you know, like it used to be
so the way David Bowie dress used to be so
(15:30):
transgressive and now it's like Harry Styles and Ben's and
Boone and like, you know, everyone dresses like David Bowie
and so how what could you possibly wear that would
be transgressive? Yeah, I don't, Like, I don't have an idea.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
What sound could you make? That's what I don't. I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
I know, like the Yoko Ono is like the closest
like still, I mean, yeah, like that's the most transgressive.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
It's just bad. It's like, oh, not that she's bad,
but like what I just did is bad.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Well, she's amazing. Is transgressive at all anymore? Because everything
is everything?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah, And the only way you can pretend to be
transgressive is to like be ugly or unfortunate or like
like like make it or make some make a sound
that like no one wants to hear, I mean, like
sonically ugly. By the way, the.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
Biggest way it could be transgressed is just shut the
fuck up.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, that would be a crazy rebellion.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
Yeah, we all are obsessed with ourselves.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I guess getting off the internet you mentioned quitting social media.
I don't know if I heard that right, But getting
off the Internet, I guess is which is it's I
don't want to say it's a week a week way
it'll be transgressive, but it's I mean, in the grand
scheme of things, is I guess it's not that it's
more of a personal thing than it is.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
It's psych I.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Don't think I even get any points for being off
social media because I'm still benefiting from it and profiting
from it because I have the capacity to have someone
who can like run my social media for me, right,
So I like, that's not not a rebellion at all
because I'm entirely participating in the system of it. I'm
just trying to protect my own brain and peace from it. Yeah,
(17:02):
so that's like zero rebellion. That's like, that's just like
walling yourself in, which is working for me. But like
I wouldn't brag about.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
We'll be right back with more from Maya and Christian
after the break, but we'll talk about a song like
Lioness on your new album is something that seems like
it's a large degree ripped out of your life, but
probably that there's also some things in there that we
wouldn't necessarily recognize.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
You know, Well, I guess I would say that I
think that that song. Miley Cyrus actually talks about this,
and I quote her all the time about it, which
is that like every I wish I could remember her
pithy way of describing it, I don't, but that every
song is like a an encapsulation of a singular emotion,
or like like we are we contain multitudes, right, Like
(17:57):
sometimes you wake up in the morning You're like, I
hate my life, and then an hour later like I
love my life, and then like you're you know, like
we are always so many people, and a lot of
the time, one thing that helps write a song is
to zero in on a specific feeling and to take
out all the nuance and all the different ways in
which you know you don't really feel that way, and
(18:18):
to add as much breath and life and blood into
this singular feeling as possible. And I think that Lioness
is a song about a moment where I was really
struggling with gratitude and like, you know, I had had
all my dreams come true. I was doing the thing
that I love most in the world, and I was
doing it and was able to take care of myself
(18:40):
and provide for myself, and that was everything I wanted,
and I was really depressed and really not feeling the magic,
feeling the spark of creativity. And I had this incredible
moment on set where I got to watch my best
friend bring the fricking house down with a performance, and
(19:02):
I was like, oh my god, it's not this environment
that's not allowing magic to happen. It's not the genre
or the tone, or the budget or the this it's me.
I'm I'm emotionally shut off. I'm blocking out the magic.
And I think that was a song that came from
like me wanting to kind of just do a wake
(19:23):
up call and get out of the funk that I
was in. And and so it's kind of like a
cartoon version of my most ungrateful like Braddy self until
the last verse, Like we've recently been talking a lot
about this, you know, you know the voice in your
head that tells you that you're like an absolute monster
and that you're a bad person and that everybody hates you.
(19:46):
Like we've been talking about that voice and been calling
it like Schmiegel and and like Agel is like you're
a bad person, nobody loves you.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
You know, you did do that voice.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Is different.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
It's kind of I maybe just because my voice is lower,
a little bit scarier. I would say yours is kind
of charming and easy to interface with.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Well, you'd say, yeah, yours.
Speaker 7 (20:11):
Minus like you are you are not doing good, you
are doing bad stuff, and you're no one likes you,
and you're you're delusional weirdo exactly.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
And like sometimes when I go to like a fashion event,
I speak in an accent and I do it accidentally,
but she's like really fabulous and she says darling. She's like, yes, darling,
I'd love a glass of water, you know, And like
these kinds of different characters that exist within all of us, right,
you have like the little demon in your head, and
you have the fabulous person in your head, and you
(20:47):
have you, and I think sometimes I like to write
from those. Christian is an incredible like character songwriter and
actually writes songs about characters that aren't him at all.
And I would say I write songs about from the
points of view of different characters that are all me
and like, so the Lioness is like kind of like
this depressed actress. She's like everything's great, eight, I'd love
(21:09):
another water with ice, But I'm so sad, and I
don't even feel like an artist anymore? Am I an
artist that's like that cartoon character that is so every
And so you write from characters that are external primarily,
you would say, and you're.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Yeah, I mean they're external in the way they have
behavior that is like different, an amalgamation of different. I'm
like a collage artist of just different stimuli or whatever
it is. Mainly my characters aren't anyone specifically, but they're
sort of kind of.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Songs. There are stories from experiences that you never had.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
Yeah, exactly, but that's what I mean.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
It's just like a collage of different people's experiences or whatever,
and how they would it's like a fan fiction of
of life of people and stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
You know, they got they got that joke.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Okay, well I didn't even mean to make that.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Christian is a song called fan fiction and he and
they laughed, and I think it's because they know that.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, I'm ashamed I didn't pick up on.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Well I didn't pick up on it either, and I'm
embarrassed that I accidentally quoted myself.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
So you know, I want to ask.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Maya, you're as some maybe still are a fan of
Taylor Swift totally.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I mean, I mean, how, yes, how what? How could
you not be? She's the goat, Like she is inspired
a generation of songwriters to be themselves and to be
free and believe in themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's what I wanted to hit on. So what is
it about her songwriting and her influence.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
She's an extraordinary musician who I'm pretty sure can do anything,
but I think she chooses to write songs that are
really simple and really approachable or you know, like a
lot of the time musically, and so much music is
so intimidating, especially for young women, and I think it
is really When I was a little girl and I
(23:12):
like got my first guitar and I went home and
I like typed in, Oh, I want to learn how
to play you know, all you need is love by
the Beatles, And I was like, I can't like what
the I mean, maybe that one is actually kind of simple,
but like it's weird, right, okay, Like and I was like, oh,
I can't do this. And then I was like, oh,
(23:32):
this is so discouraging, right, I'm so like, I feel
so bad about myself that I can't It sounds so
simple when I listen to it, but when I try
to do it, I can't do it. And then I
was like, Okay, I'm gonna learn to play Taylor Swift's
hours and I was like, oh, I obviously can't play
it as well as she can, but I can play it.
I can sit in front of my family and be
like these are the chords, and I'm playing it and
(23:54):
I'm singing this song and so encouraging, like it's so
inspiring and it makes me feel like, oh my god,
a song that I love that change my life and
inspires me is accessible to me, and it makes you
believe that you can write songs and that you could
write songs that could change the world.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
Yeah, it's like punk rock. It's like the Ramones or whatever.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
When you I'm sure that like everyone that plays music
had the moment where they're like, oh shit, I could
do this today.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah yeah, right now, Yeah, just go to.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Like the thrift store and buy the thing and I
could play like fucking whatever.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
That's what Taylor Swift does.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
I think, And then she does that, and then it
also happens to have like written I think a lot
of the greatest songs of the last twenty years and
like an over and over again album after album, and
it's pretty impressive and does it well being like pretty
incredible role model at the same time and not seeming
to have that be too much of a burden. So
(24:49):
it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, what is your favorite Taylor Swift album?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Fearless? But I've been in the game from the beginning,
and you can't replace your first experience, you know, So
I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't. I don't. I wouldn't
say it was the best album, but it is my favorite.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, it's also he did fall in love to a
Taylor's to to to Fearless, the Fearless song, and then
it's some red, so I would say, like Fearless Red
and then Torture Poet's Department.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Wow, you guys fell in love to Fearless.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
We had some pivotal We've had some exaggeration bonding moments.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
It's most men that you meet as a young woman
when you say you like Taylor Swift, they say, oh,
that's so annoying. Don't put it onto the car. I
don't want to listen to it. I don't like, Oh,
you're so like And you get to meet one who
puts it on in the car on purpose, not to
manipulate you. It's a pretty big deal, you know.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
Christian, I'm speechless.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
He's a lifelong fan. He like's like he's on. He
heard Taylor on the country radio and went to go
see her live during the Fearless Fearless era.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
During the self Title Self Title era, I was, I
grew up in LA and there's one country stage. I
don't know what there is now, but there's one country station.
Go country right. I don't know what the numbers are,
but the or the letters, but it was teardrops on
my guitar. They started playing, and I was like, I
used to listen to country music because my dad introduced
(26:23):
me to Hank Williams.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
And I was like, this is fucking rocks. This guy
is amazing.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Yeah, this new music from the nineteen forties. And when
I listened to country music mainly as a joke because
you could turn it on and be like, damn you hilarious.
They're punning on this truck so hard, like a song
after song truck puns, fish puns and Taylor Swift or whatever,
(26:50):
Tim McGraw or whatever I think is what it was.
That and I was like, this is amazing and like
like weirdly like meta and felt like the Internet at
that time and like the MySpace days of the internet.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
Or whatever, and it was cool.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
And I called into the radio station and won tickets
on the radio to go see her first LA show
and went and was very an embarrassed, like fifteen year
old boy who was like, oh shit, it's a bunch
of little kids here and I was front row, uh.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Just ripping it. It was amazing, could go.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
I went with my best friend at the time, Michael Mann,
who is not the director but a different guy.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
So in other words, I'm the luckiest woman in the world.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
That is phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I want to ask you about Heavy Rain from your
newest album. I'm so glad that you do that is
it's stunning. It's a gorgeous song, and there's like some
like halfway through something happens halfway through one of the
core verses that is like I don't even know what
you guys do, Like something just.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Changes. I wish I could play it.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
That's my yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I mean there's a modulation that happens because Maya. I
was on tour in Europe and Maya had sent me
of this that we tried the old method of Maya
sends a poem and like a vague melody and try
to map it out. And Maya sent me like this
crazy melody that modulated all over the place. And then
(28:30):
I'd sort of figured, I don't even think I've really
figured out how to do it, but figured out how
to modulate the into a different key at just boring.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
You, figured how to do the guitar, how to play
against what she.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Was singing, Yeah, and like change it.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
She went into a different key in a way that
was really effortless and like kind of like WHOA, just
something I never would have thought to do that.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
You know, have you ever seen on.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
YouTube those videos of people like re harmonizing like a
guy on the news or something like that. Yeah, or
like sort of like I tried to do that with
the thing that she sent over.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
It was a really cool That song was really fun
to write and fun to communicate about, and came from
a really special Like some some songs kind of drop
out of the air, and that was one of them.
I was having a weird day and I went with
my my brother was doing a play at Lincoln Center,
which had been a lifelong dream of mine. And I
(29:30):
walked him to the stage door and then we sat
out on a bench and we were just like talking
and all of a sudden, just the like you know
when the sky just like rips open and dumps water
like out of the blue, and it just and it did.
And I got into a cab and I wrote ninety
percent of that song in the cab, like running away
(29:52):
from the rain while he went into the stage door.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
And and it was and I like, and it's now
that's like my favorite song. We really Christian taught me
about Judy Sill, beautiful, one of my favorite Yeah series
and songwriters ever, and we really I was like feeling
very in inspired by her at the time, and we
were really inspired by her for the production on the
song awesome. And I so it's like, I don't know,
(30:16):
but that song feels very magic magic to me.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Wow, I would There's no way I ever would have
imagined Judy Sill was the inspiration for Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, last break and we'll be back with Maya and Christian.
Were you aware of that modulation you did or was
that just that was it? Was it a conscious effort
to do that or a just decision.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
No, no, not at all. I mean I was just
like in the cab, I think, and was like, oh no,
this was later Christian like sent me back a voice
memo of like him putting music to the song, and
I was like, it's it's really good, it's really good.
But for the bridge, I was just I was hearing
this thing and I'm not trying I'll try to sing
it for you. It's like, you know, it goes like this,
and I and I sang it into the thing.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
And for the bridge, it's.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Just like this really complicated, like baroque ass, fucking like
Gregorian chant, fucking like deep music thing that I've never
heard of. I feel like I had to go to
the library to like figure out what it was like. No,
just this like little thing that's like the most insane
thing you've ever heard of.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
Well, I've been musically incredible.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I've been working on having more security with instrumentation, but
I'm not a very secure player. But I love to sing,
and I sing a lot of melodies, and so I'm like,
oftentimes melodies will come to me, but I don't understand
the chordal makeup of them, and so I and and
usually they're just like naturally within a key, but sometimes
they're not. And this one it wasn't. But I swear
(31:46):
to god, I didn't even write this song. It dropped
out of this guy and Christian helped bring it to life,
and I don't I don't give myself any credit.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Did you did you write? Did you win the cab?
Did you write it on a notepad or was it
my notes?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
App Well, it was raining. I am usually a notepad girl,
but you know what, inclement weather, it's.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
It's not good. It's not good notepad weather when.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
It's Yeah, speaking of Gregorian, uh devil, the Devil you
know feels and uh, it feels a little Gregorian in
some ways.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
The way the vocal is produced. You know.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, And I feel like you did something similar on
on your previous album on Better Totally.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Thank you for connecting like.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
The first person ever to bring up this song that
we were like the day in the studio where like
this fucking rocks.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
I was like, this is gonna be such a big hit.
I think like a really cool rapper is gonna sample
this and put it in there, Like I think this
is gonna be the you know what eminem what's the
song where he samples Dido. I think this is gonna
be I think this is going to end up on
like so confident. It's like when I go to my
Spotify for artists, roll down, it's like the bottom one
(33:01):
I was. I am the uncanary in the coal mine.
If I think something is going to succeed, it means
it will not.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
But uh, maybe that says the same thing about me too.
That's one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Good. You should never pick a single.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Well yeah, yeah, I mean neither, But I really I
think you're so right in some ways, my like dream
of what I wanted to have happened with that song
is kind of what we tried to do with them
well you know, which I'd never thought about before, but
kind of happened. We got I got really Uh that
song kind of came out of I wrote a crazy
poem and Christian and I were writing a lot of
(33:35):
music for this record, and he was like, you know what,
I think you should send that poem to Ben Ben,
who did Blush and and Ben is like just always
doing such weird rhythmic stuff and is really good at
like talkie weird melodic changes, and he kind of wrote
all those verse melodies. And then similarly, he was like,
how should the chorus? And he was like, should I
work on the chorus? And I was like, no, no, no,
I have the chorus. And we were lying in bed
(33:57):
on Christmas and I sent Ben a voice memo of
me doing deal with the Devil, you know, And and
that's still the audio that's he put that ice memo
through a voice voecoder and and that's still the audio
that's on the that on the song that came out.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Really, yeah, you did you add anything to the voice?
Did you add any layers to the vocal?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
I think we we it's vogue coder with the voice memo,
and then I think I overdubbed the lead, but I'm
not sure.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Ben is like always there's like sneakily like it's like
two hundred something.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
He's always like, great, let's do a double, let's do
a triple. What if we quadrupled it? What if we
you know, quintupled it?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
And he did you? And did he?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I guess he recorded you guys recorded some of this
at Ben's place. Just that song, just that song, okay,
And but that was his place.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
In and then he recorded other pieces on the other
two songs that he worked on, which was last Thoughts
on Morning Star or not that he worked on a
ton of them, but last Thoughts on Morning Star and
uh in terms of estrangement, yes, yes, yes, and he
did a lot of pieces of those in his studio
in La But I wasn't there for it, got it,
(35:12):
but devil you and I was there for it with him.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
So cool.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
So you guys have a little You guys are gonna
do a tour for the and I should ask you that,
can you? I don't want to mess up the name
Matria my trea.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I mean, God knows, it's an ancient word. How do
you say it? I don't know. That's how I say it,
and how my mom and dad say it, and I
don't know, but.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Uh, I should add what does it mean?
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Though?
Speaker 1 (35:36):
What Trea my traya is?
Speaker 3 (35:39):
The word comes from Tibetan Buddhism. She's a boody sapha.
But what kind of why it's my trea? Corso? I
mean Corso is after Gregory Corso, the beat poet. But
I wanted this. We've been reading fantasy literature together for
the last two years, we've been reading like every single
Sarah J. Moss book and all of the Fourth Wing,
(36:00):
and we've just been having so much fun with our private,
little secret smutty book club and it's been amazing. And
I love fan to see, you know, my whole life.
And I really just like my imagination ran away with
these visuals of like these kind of brave, powerful, sword
carrying women, and I wanted this album to have a lead,
(36:24):
to be a journey, you know, And it's I really
I see it that way, Like if if the first
song is love of My Life, what if I got
what I wanted and the last song is dream House,
it's a it's a it's an album about doing what
needs to be done to learn enough about yourself to
get what you want. Wow, And I uh. And so
(36:45):
I wanted it to feel like a journey, like an
epic quest. And how do you tell an epic quest, Well,
you need an epic heroin and uh. And I wanted
to give the epic heroin an epic name. And so
you know, the heroine of My Dreams is my Trey
of Corso.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
It's beautiful too, and it's rare that you can like
google something these days and not.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Find an answer. Yeah, a kudos on that.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
It's a rebellion in some.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Ways'm raging against the internet. Yes, yes, I want to
be ungoogleable. Never gonna happen, Never gonna happen. My whole
life totally googleable. I was joking in the day, was like,
everyone I know I can google their birthday. I don't
need to remember their birthday because I can look it up.
And that's my weird life.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
But anyway, sadly I've.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Done that for friends.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
It'll be on the next record.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
But yeah, are you gonna do you? Are you?
Speaker 2 (37:41):
I imagine you guys are gonna keep making music in
all kinds of different iterations, right.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Like yeah, probably certainly in all kinds of iterations.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
I think.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
So that's the plan. We'll see.
Speaker 5 (37:51):
Do you.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Do you ever, because you're also make incredible music, Christian,
thank you?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Do you ever bring Maya into that process?
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Absolutely? I mean it's we my last record. We wrote
a lot of it together.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Whenever I'm usually flattering to me, I'd never written on
anyone else's record ever, and it kind of I never
thought anyone ever want me to and meant the world
to me to be included in that way.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
I'd also never had anyone right on that might be
on like oh cool, that was your idea and I
expanded upon it or whatever it was. Maya is one
of my songwriting heroes, so I think like most songwriters,
I know, they have like a little collection of five
different people that they'll send voice memos to when they're
like think they have a good idea and be like
(38:38):
do I suck?
Speaker 5 (38:39):
Or like what's what's up?
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Like safe places.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
Maya's my number one guy to send stuff too, so
it's always like, I don't know. We work on all
kinds of my stuff together and her stuff, and it's
kind of like it gets blurry occasionally and then.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
We fight about it and then we figured it out.
Speaker 5 (39:02):
Yeah, I always figure out. I'm like, no, I want that,
and you're like, no, I want that.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, Well I gotta see.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I'm I'm somewhat jealous of the I mean, it's really
beautiful that you guys.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Not only do you have the sort of musical.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Connection and collaboration element, but the smutty book Club and.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
The Carport's good.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
I highly recommend the drawing of cartoon characters to get
out to you. I mean, you guys have an incredible
amount of you know, ways of bonding that are just
like really, I don't know, I don't know. Not everyone
has that, you know, these really deep, incredible but yet
fun ways to create.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Bonds and create memories.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
And it's really beautiful and the album is really, really,
really good. I wish I could play heavy ring because
that is my it's my favorite song right now.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I wish we could do. We haven't worked it up yet,
and as we've talked about for about twenty minutes, is hard.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
Yeah, very difficult.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Yeah, I need to like go back to school for
four years to learn how to play.
Speaker 5 (40:03):
It for a little tool.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
We'll play it on tour because it's my favorite song
on the record too, But but I do not feel qualif.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
Tonight even qualified to think about it really.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Great, Well they'll get a chance to see it on tour.
I can't wait to see it as myself. And thanks
so much for coming out, guys, and so.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
Happy, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Really awesome be able to listen to the last couple
of weeks.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Thank you, Thanks my hawk, Christian Lee Hudson, Thanks guys,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
An episode of description you'll find a link to a
playlist of our favorite songs from both Maya Hawk and
Christian Lee Hudson. Be sure to check out YouTube dot
com slash Broken Record Podcast to see you all of
our video interviews, and be sure to follow us on
Instagram at the Broken Record pot. Broken Record is produced
and edited by Leah Rhoads, with marketing help from Eric
Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. Broken
(40:58):
Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love
this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content
and ad free listening for four ninety nine a month.
Look for Pushing and Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. And
if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast app. Our theme musics
by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Mya Hawk first became known to audiences as an actress,
especially through her work in Stranger Things and in film,
but she's been quietly building in parallel life as a
songwriter of genuine depth. Since her debut album Blush in
twenty twenty, she's released four records that are ever more reflective.
By Treya Corso, her fourth album arrives at a formative
(00:41):
moment in Hawk's life, following her marriage to longtime musical
collaborator Christian Lee Hudson. The album's built around a central
persona named my Trea Corso, who serves as a conduit
for exploring themes of ego, ambition, and creation. Recorded in
Woodstock in New York City late last year, the album's
co produced by Hudson and Jonathan Lowe, with album's artwork
(01:04):
taken from watercolor paintings made by Maya herself. On today's episode,
recorded live from South by Southwest, I sat down with
Maya Hawk and husband and co producer Christian Lee Hudson
to talk about the making of My Treo Corso. Together,
they reflect on the development of their artistic lives separately,
Maya and New York and Christian mostly in LA, but
(01:24):
also what it's like to come together as partners in
life as well as music. This is broken record, real musicians,
real conversations. Here's my interview with Maya Hawk and Christian
Lee Hudson live from south By, Southwest, Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
All right, thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Us, No, thanks for coming, Thanks for being here. It's
cool to be in Austin and south By Southwest.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It certainly is.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
This is one of my I think I'm out on
the flight here.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
There's like five American cities that feel like they have
their own internal logic different from any other.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
You know, it doesn't feel like that.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's not better then, it's just very different than any
other part of America. New Orleans feels that way. New
York feels that way. I would throw LA in the
Bay or the LA Area, the Bay Area in Austin,
you know, I feel like, just completely their own unique.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Chicago's kind of unique.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Too, are Chicago? And would agree, Yeah, you know what
that that is true? That is true, and it has
it certainly has a history.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
All those other cities do.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So I wouldn't. I wouldn't take that. How did you, guys,
just musical connections start?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
What where? How did you guys start playing.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Together via email, so I was going to say, yeah,
the Postal Service, we yeah, exactly. We have a mutual
friend named Benjaminlizzard Davis who produced my second record, Moss,
and played bass on my first record, and he knew
Christian from working on Aquaville River.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right exactly, which which you I which?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I did a tour with them and just met the
band kind of and then the guy Will the songwriter
and I wrote a few songs together cool.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And Benjamin joined them. That's he's a member.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Now he's like on again.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
It's like one of those bands like Bright Eyes, where
it's like who is the members of it?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
I don't know any who? Who's who? Round right?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right?
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Collective?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
But Will and Ben were on that tour. Will is
obviously Akuaville rover, but then there's another Will will Graffe
who's also been playing with me since I started who
We were on that tour with Christian And then I
asked Ben to work on this record with me, or
really to work on an EP. And then all of
a sudden, I had like nine more days off of
Stranger Things than I was supposed to have and was like,
(03:51):
what if instead of making an EP. We made a
record because we've got some extra time. So then we
had like two months to write six more songs. And
I was sending Ben and Will like poems every single
day and they were, I think, drowning in poems with
which to put music to, and they were and Ben
was like, can I send some of your music to
Can I send one of your poems to Christian? And
(04:11):
I never responded to the email, and then I got
an email from the purpose like no, I just am
bad at my email and uh, and I never responded
and then I got an email from Christian mean I
got your poem. And then I was so embarrassed because
I was a big fan of Christians and was like,
oh no, oh that poem that was just a first draft.
(04:32):
Please let me send you an editor. Don't work on
that yet. But we've gone back since and like read
those early emails and they're actually very sweet and they're awesome. Yeah,
they're awesome.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
So that's how he was a great first poem too.
I wouldn't. I was like, this is awesome.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Ben sends crazy emails and that was a really good one.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Because good, yeah, yeah for you did it feel like
this is maybe like the idea of it, like you're okay,
you're going to get these poems in some form and
write to them. Is that is that like a typical
process for you or did that feel like were you
surprised by how he's easy or natural?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
That process was kind of I mean I was writing.
I like to write in a lot of different ways,
and that was a really fun way to be. Like,
you know, sometimes you'll go in a room and someone
has like seventy five percent of a song and you're like, cool,
I'm just gonna throw out some like ideas for the
last twenty five percent and there this was a fun
(05:33):
way to just be like this has no music and
no you get to decide what the rules are because
it's also COVID. Yeah, so I was just sitting in
my closet like with my guitar being trying to figure
out how to what made the most sense out of
the things. So it was different and fun and immediately
I was like, send me another poem.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, And then we had really a lot of fun
and we met kind of making that record.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I want to get back to just sort of the
evolution of how you guys got to the latest record.
But I mean, it's interesting because you or maybe maybe
I'm wrong, but I'm just gonna say this, you're not
primarily like a songwriter or you were new to it
at the time, right right.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I would argue with that, I would, but I would say,
but I don't just maybe it's let.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
You up here.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yeah, I would say that is constantly writing songs.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
She writes songs every single day.
Speaker 6 (06:28):
She is a naturally in the form of like in
the absolutely I feel like before I like I am
even awake, there's like a full, like a complete song
that I'm just like, what the fuck is this?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Well, okay, What I will say is that a big
part of what's happened in my own musical evolution, so
to speak, is that Christian, when we worked on Moss together,
was so encouraging and was so like, well, actually show me,
like when you wrote this poem, what music did you imagine?
And I would play it for him and you'd be like, wait,
that's good.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
What do you like?
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Why didn't we do that? And I was like, no,
it's not, it's trash. Because I was a very fortunate
young person who who was around artists my whole life.
And around amazing musicians my whole life, and people that
were so good at guitar and piano that it felt
embarrassing to pick up an instrument in front of them,
you know, and who were such extraordinary composers and instrumentalists
(07:22):
that it didn't feel like I had anything to offer.
And Christian was kind of the person that entered my
life and was like, you have something to offer, because
it is you that is offering it. It's not about
the jazz school. It's about the nature of your heart
and like the truth that you know the music and
the words and how they combined. And so that sort
(07:43):
of encouragement working on Moss kind of created Chaos Angel
in a lot of ways because that was a product
of me being like, oh, I can incorporate my own
melodies and I can write music.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And that was your third album.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So by the time you did your third album, you
did start to have more confidence in yourself as a
person who is writing songs.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Absolutely and I and like, which isn't say that I
wrote them by myself. I didn't at all, but I
would instead of coming to the table with just a
piece of paper with words on it, I would come
to the table being like, this is what I've been playing, Like,
what do you think? I really like this chorus, but
the verse melody sucks. Let's make it better. You know,
it was a sort of more. Wouldn't you say that
that's an accurate description of the vibe.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Yeah, I think that's a really accurate description. I think
that you like chronically underestimate what because most of the.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Musical you're working on it.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
I know most of the musical ideas that you have.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
I'm like, wow, this is so fucking heady and trippy, and.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
There's a certain maginner's mind when you don't know, like
what the rules are, you don't know that you're breaking.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
Them in a way very very good underc I am.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Very good at turning a compliment into an insult. It's
it's truly makes me wonderful to be around.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That is.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I'll be like, oh, so you're saying I look beautiful
by what you mean, I'm dumb? You know, It's like, really,
I'm you know, it's really there's a lot of fun
ways to sentence.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Really convoluted to go from.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
You I'm a pleasure you are actually?
Speaker 5 (09:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Is the inverse true? Like if someone says you're smart.
Do you feel like, well, why aren't you complimentary?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Come on, aren't I beautiful?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah? What do you mean?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I'm smart?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Do you know what I think about this?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
So you're saying I'm ugly?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I have three daughters.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, well one's a baby so that she doesn't really count,
but I have so two daughters are sentient in the
sense of they can understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I can kind of screw them up or or or or.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Maybe set them up for some sort of you know,
healthy life, you know, And I'm always like, oh, wow,
you look so beautiful. I'm like, oh, yeah, but you're
smart too, Like how was he like? Fuck, I shouldn't
have just said that. I'll be like, oh, you're so smart,
and I'm like, oh, I don't want her to think
she's just.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Like a nerd. Oh you're beautiful too, And I don't know.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I'm very neurotic about like balancing any compliment I make
with him.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, being a woman sucks, you know. I mean there's
just like it's like there's just like it's all bad.
Oh don't clap for that. No, it's okay, but like
it's all bad. But I will. I think as long
as neither one is that heavy, you know, I mean,
smart can be heavy. But I think it's just all
about like, Yeah, it's not about what your parents says.
(10:17):
It's about what you think they value about you. Yeah,
and like, And I think that kind of extends more broadly.
You know, your partner or your friends. It's not about
what they say to you. Like your best friend can
be like, you're such a match, and you'll be like,
I know, you know, but like that, and that's a
wonderful and it's a compliment. And so it's it's never
about what the words are. I think it's always about
the feeling behind the words. When it comes to intimate relationships.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yes, the intents, the intent or perceived intent.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
At least in terms of when there's intimacy, it's about intent. Yes,
when it's a stranger, it's about what you said.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I think generally right, Yes, that does make sense.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I mean I hadn't really thought about it or broke
it down the way, but I think that's probably accurate.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I'm curious about because you both are really you know,
potent artists and engaged artists who have had different paths,
you know, each have had your different path and they've
kind of converged in this way. But what was your
experience with the arts growing up? Like, what was your
relationship with it both in terms of how was it
introduced to you and then how.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Did it sort of evolve on your own.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
How did it become something that you sort of took
ownership of and felt like, well, this is like for me,
Like I grew up with a lot of I grew
up with my grandma who was from Detroit, So I
just grew up in Motown in the house, and I
thought to the point I thought it was new music.
But then I got to junior high, I got into
skateboarding and I was like, oh, the Ramones, like that's
my music, you know, and that sort of and then
(11:39):
you circle bas circle back at some point to Motown.
But I did, at some point sort to forge my
own identity and art outside of whatever my family thought.
We we're kind of curious how you guys, What do
you guys came up with and how you guys started
what music and art sorted to be formative in your
own sort of identity.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I'm going to set you up, and I'm going to
set you up by saying that I think that we
know positive like you see it positive, like just one.
I think the thing is cool about our friendship and
collaboration is that we had really different experiences. Like I
was drowned in the arts, and I think Christian really
had to find it on his own.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
I didn't.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I don't know if if somebody said the arts when
I was a kid, I don't know if I would
know what they were talking about. Really, there was no
like art in my life there, but there was. Weirdly,
there was Motown like a lot of My grandmother was
a record collector, but like didn't talk about the arts.
She just grew up in Chattanooga and like was loved
getting Stax records and Motown records and showed me all
(12:45):
of that and and.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
I did that take. Absolutely. I was obsessed with it.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
But I also thought it was new music, which was
very funny because I would like take it to school
and it was like wow, no one kind of knew
what I was talking about, like, oh, yeah, it's a
song from like remember the Titans or something or whatever,
and yeah, so I didn't really know about it. And
when I was like a teenager and there was an
arts program in school. I went to like a fundamentalist
(13:12):
Christian school where there was like art was like I
don't know, it's like a poem about Jesus maybe or something.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
But yeah, yeah, versus.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I went to a high school where, not while I
was there, but in its origin, the headmaster used to
take parents on school tours and say that if the
students didn't have interracial sex and tried to at least
three different drugs before they graduated, he would consider himself
a failure.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
So yeah, I had a very different headmaster.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
It's very different priorities than you, really different priorities.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
You know, he had his own issues Stanley Bosworth. But
what I mean to say generally is that I I
really was just like the arts seemed like the main option.
Like I kind of remember meeting people with other jobs
and being like what do you do and people would
tell me to be like why you know, and and
(14:02):
just like you know, a normal thing to do every
weekend was go to the Metropolitan Museum r of Art
and like go to the Nutcracker. Like it was just
like everything was art and music and film and storytelling
and so it's something really cool about getting to work
with you is to kind of combine this like art
(14:24):
as revenge and art as identity that I feel like
you hold where like I couldn't rebel by being an artist.
That was not a rebellion for me, true, but it
was for you. And I feel like I love getting
to like bring the feeling of like, no art is everywhere,
art is everything, and you can bring the like art
is rebellion, art is crazy, and we can kind of
(14:45):
combine that in a way that feels really cool.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, growing up in I mean, like you said, you
grew up steep in the arts and in New York City,
so like art probably has to go pretty far for
you to feel like it's rebellious.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Right, I Mean this walks us down a whole new
rabbit hole that we could talk about forever, which is like,
how do you make rebellious art now? How do you
make protest art?
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Now?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Don't have an answer, Like I it's very it seems
very borderline impossible because of the way that the Internet
works and the way that like moments happen and like
niche niches happen, and how difficult it. Like I was
reading something about you know, like it used to be
so the way David Bowie dress used to be so
(15:30):
transgressive and now it's like Harry Styles and Ben's and
Boone and like, you know, everyone dresses like David Bowie
and so how what could you possibly wear that would
be transgressive? Yeah, I don't, Like, I don't have an idea.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
What sound could you make? That's what I don't. I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
I know, like the Yoko Ono is like the closest
like still, I mean, yeah, like that's the most transgressive.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
It's just bad. It's like, oh, not that she's bad,
but like what I just did is bad.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Well, she's amazing. Is transgressive at all anymore? Because everything
is everything?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah, And the only way you can pretend to be
transgressive is to like be ugly or unfortunate or like
like like make it or make some make a sound
that like no one wants to hear, I mean, like
sonically ugly. By the way, the.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
Biggest way it could be transgressed is just shut the
fuck up.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, that would be a crazy rebellion.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
Yeah, we all are obsessed with ourselves.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I guess getting off the internet you mentioned quitting social media.
I don't know if I heard that right, But getting
off the Internet, I guess is which is it's I
don't want to say it's a week a week way
it'll be transgressive, but it's I mean, in the grand
scheme of things, is I guess it's not that it's
more of a personal thing than it is.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
It's psych I.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Don't think I even get any points for being off
social media because I'm still benefiting from it and profiting
from it because I have the capacity to have someone
who can like run my social media for me, right,
So I like, that's not not a rebellion at all
because I'm entirely participating in the system of it. I'm
just trying to protect my own brain and peace from it. Yeah,
(17:02):
so that's like zero rebellion. That's like, that's just like
walling yourself in, which is working for me. But like
I wouldn't brag about.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
We'll be right back with more from Maya and Christian
after the break, but we'll talk about a song like
Lioness on your new album is something that seems like
it's a large degree ripped out of your life, but
probably that there's also some things in there that we
wouldn't necessarily recognize.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
You know, Well, I guess I would say that I
think that that song. Miley Cyrus actually talks about this,
and I quote her all the time about it, which
is that like every I wish I could remember her
pithy way of describing it, I don't, but that every
song is like a an encapsulation of a singular emotion,
or like like we are we contain multitudes, right, Like
(17:57):
sometimes you wake up in the morning You're like, I
hate my life, and then an hour later like I
love my life, and then like you're you know, like
we are always so many people, and a lot of
the time, one thing that helps write a song is
to zero in on a specific feeling and to take
out all the nuance and all the different ways in
which you know you don't really feel that way, and
(18:18):
to add as much breath and life and blood into
this singular feeling as possible. And I think that Lioness
is a song about a moment where I was really
struggling with gratitude and like, you know, I had had
all my dreams come true. I was doing the thing
that I love most in the world, and I was
doing it and was able to take care of myself
(18:40):
and provide for myself, and that was everything I wanted,
and I was really depressed and really not feeling the magic,
feeling the spark of creativity. And I had this incredible
moment on set where I got to watch my best
friend bring the fricking house down with a performance, and
(19:02):
I was like, oh my god, it's not this environment
that's not allowing magic to happen. It's not the genre
or the tone, or the budget or the this it's me.
I'm I'm emotionally shut off. I'm blocking out the magic.
And I think that was a song that came from
like me wanting to kind of just do a wake
(19:23):
up call and get out of the funk that I
was in. And and so it's kind of like a
cartoon version of my most ungrateful like Braddy self until
the last verse, Like we've recently been talking a lot
about this, you know, you know the voice in your
head that tells you that you're like an absolute monster
and that you're a bad person and that everybody hates you.
(19:46):
Like we've been talking about that voice and been calling
it like Schmiegel and and like Agel is like you're
a bad person, nobody loves you.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
You know, you did do that voice.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Is different.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
It's kind of I maybe just because my voice is lower,
a little bit scarier. I would say yours is kind
of charming and easy to interface with.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Well, you'd say, yeah, yours.
Speaker 7 (20:11):
Minus like you are you are not doing good, you
are doing bad stuff, and you're no one likes you,
and you're you're delusional weirdo exactly.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
And like sometimes when I go to like a fashion event,
I speak in an accent and I do it accidentally,
but she's like really fabulous and she says darling. She's like, yes, darling,
I'd love a glass of water, you know, And like
these kinds of different characters that exist within all of us, right,
you have like the little demon in your head, and
you have the fabulous person in your head, and you
(20:47):
have you, and I think sometimes I like to write
from those. Christian is an incredible like character songwriter and
actually writes songs about characters that aren't him at all.
And I would say I write songs about from the
points of view of different characters that are all me
and like, so the Lioness is like kind of like
this depressed actress. She's like everything's great, eight, I'd love
(21:09):
another water with ice, But I'm so sad, and I
don't even feel like an artist anymore? Am I an
artist that's like that cartoon character that is so every
And so you write from characters that are external primarily,
you would say, and you're.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Yeah, I mean they're external in the way they have
behavior that is like different, an amalgamation of different. I'm
like a collage artist of just different stimuli or whatever
it is. Mainly my characters aren't anyone specifically, but they're
sort of kind of.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Songs. There are stories from experiences that you never had.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
Yeah, exactly, but that's what I mean.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
It's just like a collage of different people's experiences or whatever,
and how they would it's like a fan fiction of
of life of people and stuff.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
You know, they got they got that joke.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Okay, well I didn't even mean to make that.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Christian is a song called fan fiction and he and
they laughed, and I think it's because they know that.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, I'm ashamed I didn't pick up on.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Well I didn't pick up on it either, and I'm
embarrassed that I accidentally quoted myself.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
So you know, I want to ask.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Maya, you're as some maybe still are a fan of
Taylor Swift totally.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I mean, I mean, how, yes, how what? How could
you not be? She's the goat, Like she is inspired
a generation of songwriters to be themselves and to be
free and believe in themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's what I wanted to hit on. So what is
it about her songwriting and her influence.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
She's an extraordinary musician who I'm pretty sure can do anything,
but I think she chooses to write songs that are
really simple and really approachable or you know, like a
lot of the time musically, and so much music is
so intimidating, especially for young women, and I think it
is really When I was a little girl and I
(23:12):
like got my first guitar and I went home and
I like typed in, Oh, I want to learn how
to play you know, all you need is love by
the Beatles, And I was like, I can't like what
the I mean, maybe that one is actually kind of simple,
but like it's weird, right, okay, Like and I was like, oh,
I can't do this. And then I was like, oh,
(23:32):
this is so discouraging, right, I'm so like, I feel
so bad about myself that I can't It sounds so
simple when I listen to it, but when I try
to do it, I can't do it. And then I
was like, Okay, I'm gonna learn to play Taylor Swift's
hours and I was like, oh, I obviously can't play
it as well as she can, but I can play it.
I can sit in front of my family and be
like these are the chords, and I'm playing it and
(23:54):
I'm singing this song and so encouraging, like it's so
inspiring and it makes me feel like, oh my god,
a song that I love that change my life and
inspires me is accessible to me, and it makes you
believe that you can write songs and that you could
write songs that could change the world.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
Yeah, it's like punk rock. It's like the Ramones or whatever.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
When you I'm sure that like everyone that plays music
had the moment where they're like, oh shit, I could
do this today.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah yeah, right now, Yeah, just go to.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Like the thrift store and buy the thing and I
could play like fucking whatever.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
That's what Taylor Swift does.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
I think, And then she does that, and then it
also happens to have like written I think a lot
of the greatest songs of the last twenty years and
like an over and over again album after album, and
it's pretty impressive and does it well being like pretty
incredible role model at the same time and not seeming
to have that be too much of a burden. So
(24:49):
it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, what is your favorite Taylor Swift album?
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Fearless? But I've been in the game from the beginning,
and you can't replace your first experience, you know, So
I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't. I don't. I wouldn't
say it was the best album, but it is my favorite.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, it's also he did fall in love to a
Taylor's to to to Fearless, the Fearless song, and then
it's some red, so I would say, like Fearless Red
and then Torture Poet's Department.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Wow, you guys fell in love to Fearless.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
We had some pivotal We've had some exaggeration bonding moments.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
It's most men that you meet as a young woman
when you say you like Taylor Swift, they say, oh,
that's so annoying. Don't put it onto the car. I
don't want to listen to it. I don't like, Oh,
you're so like And you get to meet one who
puts it on in the car on purpose, not to
manipulate you. It's a pretty big deal, you know.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
Christian, I'm speechless.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
He's a lifelong fan. He like's like he's on. He
heard Taylor on the country radio and went to go
see her live during the Fearless Fearless era.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
During the self Title Self Title era, I was, I
grew up in LA and there's one country stage. I
don't know what there is now, but there's one country station.
Go country right. I don't know what the numbers are,
but the or the letters, but it was teardrops on
my guitar. They started playing, and I was like, I
used to listen to country music because my dad introduced
(26:23):
me to Hank Williams.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
And I was like, this is fucking rocks. This guy
is amazing.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Yeah, this new music from the nineteen forties. And when
I listened to country music mainly as a joke because
you could turn it on and be like, damn you hilarious.
They're punning on this truck so hard, like a song
after song truck puns, fish puns and Taylor Swift or whatever,
(26:50):
Tim McGraw or whatever I think is what it was.
That and I was like, this is amazing and like
like weirdly like meta and felt like the Internet at
that time and like the MySpace days of the internet.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
Or whatever, and it was cool.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
And I called into the radio station and won tickets
on the radio to go see her first LA show
and went and was very an embarrassed, like fifteen year
old boy who was like, oh shit, it's a bunch
of little kids here and I was front row, uh.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Just ripping it. It was amazing, could go.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
I went with my best friend at the time, Michael Mann,
who is not the director but a different guy.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
So in other words, I'm the luckiest woman in the world.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
That is phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I want to ask you about Heavy Rain from your
newest album. I'm so glad that you do that is
it's stunning. It's a gorgeous song, and there's like some
like halfway through something happens halfway through one of the
core verses that is like I don't even know what
you guys do, Like something just.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Changes. I wish I could play it.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
That's my yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I mean there's a modulation that happens because Maya. I
was on tour in Europe and Maya had sent me
of this that we tried the old method of Maya
sends a poem and like a vague melody and try
to map it out. And Maya sent me like this
crazy melody that modulated all over the place. And then
(28:30):
I'd sort of figured, I don't even think I've really
figured out how to do it, but figured out how
to modulate the into a different key at just boring.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
You, figured how to do the guitar, how to play
against what she.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Was singing, Yeah, and like change it.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
She went into a different key in a way that
was really effortless and like kind of like WHOA, just
something I never would have thought to do that.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
You know, have you ever seen on.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
YouTube those videos of people like re harmonizing like a
guy on the news or something like that. Yeah, or
like sort of like I tried to do that with
the thing that she sent over.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
It was a really cool That song was really fun
to write and fun to communicate about, and came from
a really special Like some some songs kind of drop
out of the air, and that was one of them.
I was having a weird day and I went with
my my brother was doing a play at Lincoln Center,
which had been a lifelong dream of mine. And I
(29:30):
walked him to the stage door and then we sat
out on a bench and we were just like talking
and all of a sudden, just the like you know
when the sky just like rips open and dumps water
like out of the blue, and it just and it did.
And I got into a cab and I wrote ninety
percent of that song in the cab, like running away
(29:52):
from the rain while he went into the stage door.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
And and it was and I like, and it's now
that's like my favorite song. We really Christian taught me
about Judy Sill, beautiful, one of my favorite Yeah series
and songwriters ever, and we really I was like feeling
very in inspired by her at the time, and we
were really inspired by her for the production on the
song awesome. And I so it's like, I don't know,
(30:16):
but that song feels very magic magic to me.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Wow, I would There's no way I ever would have
imagined Judy Sill was the inspiration for Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, last break and we'll be back with Maya and Christian.
Were you aware of that modulation you did or was
that just that was it? Was it a conscious effort
to do that or a just decision.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
No, no, not at all. I mean I was just
like in the cab, I think, and was like, oh no,
this was later Christian like sent me back a voice
memo of like him putting music to the song, and
I was like, it's it's really good, it's really good.
But for the bridge, I was just I was hearing
this thing and I'm not trying I'll try to sing
it for you. It's like, you know, it goes like this,
and I and I sang it into the thing.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
And for the bridge, it's.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Just like this really complicated, like baroque ass, fucking like
Gregorian chant, fucking like deep music thing that I've never
heard of. I feel like I had to go to
the library to like figure out what it was like. No,
just this like little thing that's like the most insane
thing you've ever heard of.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
Well, I've been musically incredible.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I've been working on having more security with instrumentation, but
I'm not a very secure player. But I love to sing,
and I sing a lot of melodies, and so I'm like,
oftentimes melodies will come to me, but I don't understand
the chordal makeup of them, and so I and and
usually they're just like naturally within a key, but sometimes
they're not. And this one it wasn't. But I swear
(31:46):
to god, I didn't even write this song. It dropped
out of this guy and Christian helped bring it to life,
and I don't I don't give myself any credit.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Did you did you write? Did you win the cab?
Did you write it on a notepad or was it
my notes?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
App Well, it was raining. I am usually a notepad girl,
but you know what, inclement weather, it's.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
It's not good. It's not good notepad weather when.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
It's Yeah, speaking of Gregorian, uh devil, the Devil you
know feels and uh, it feels a little Gregorian in
some ways.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
The way the vocal is produced. You know.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, And I feel like you did something similar on
on your previous album on Better Totally.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Thank you for connecting like.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
The first person ever to bring up this song that
we were like the day in the studio where like
this fucking rocks.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
I was like, this is gonna be such a big hit.
I think like a really cool rapper is gonna sample
this and put it in there, Like I think this
is gonna be the you know what eminem what's the
song where he samples Dido. I think this is gonna
be I think this is going to end up on
like so confident. It's like when I go to my
Spotify for artists, roll down, it's like the bottom one
(33:01):
I was. I am the uncanary in the coal mine.
If I think something is going to succeed, it means
it will not.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
But uh, maybe that says the same thing about me too.
That's one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Good. You should never pick a single.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Well yeah, yeah, I mean neither, But I really I
think you're so right in some ways, my like dream
of what I wanted to have happened with that song
is kind of what we tried to do with them
well you know, which I'd never thought about before, but
kind of happened. We got I got really Uh that
song kind of came out of I wrote a crazy
poem and Christian and I were writing a lot of
(33:35):
music for this record, and he was like, you know what,
I think you should send that poem to Ben Ben,
who did Blush and and Ben is like just always
doing such weird rhythmic stuff and is really good at
like talkie weird melodic changes, and he kind of wrote
all those verse melodies. And then similarly, he was like,
how should the chorus? And he was like, should I
work on the chorus? And I was like, no, no, no,
I have the chorus. And we were lying in bed
(33:57):
on Christmas and I sent Ben a voice memo of
me doing deal with the Devil, you know, And and
that's still the audio that's he put that ice memo
through a voice voecoder and and that's still the audio
that's on the that on the song that came out.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Really, yeah, you did you add anything to the voice?
Did you add any layers to the vocal?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
I think we we it's vogue coder with the voice memo,
and then I think I overdubbed the lead, but I'm
not sure.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Ben is like always there's like sneakily like it's like
two hundred something.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
He's always like, great, let's do a double, let's do
a triple. What if we quadrupled it? What if we
you know, quintupled it?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
And he did you? And did he?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I guess he recorded you guys recorded some of this
at Ben's place. Just that song, just that song, okay,
And but that was his place.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
In and then he recorded other pieces on the other
two songs that he worked on, which was last Thoughts
on Morning Star or not that he worked on a
ton of them, but last Thoughts on Morning Star and
uh in terms of estrangement, yes, yes, yes, and he
did a lot of pieces of those in his studio
in La But I wasn't there for it, got it,
(35:12):
but devil you and I was there for it with him.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
So cool.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
So you guys have a little You guys are gonna
do a tour for the and I should ask you that,
can you? I don't want to mess up the name
Matria my trea.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I mean, God knows, it's an ancient word. How do
you say it? I don't know. That's how I say it,
and how my mom and dad say it, and I
don't know, but.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Uh, I should add what does it mean?
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Though?
Speaker 1 (35:36):
What Trea my traya is?
Speaker 3 (35:39):
The word comes from Tibetan Buddhism. She's a boody sapha.
But what kind of why it's my trea? Corso? I
mean Corso is after Gregory Corso, the beat poet. But
I wanted this. We've been reading fantasy literature together for
the last two years, we've been reading like every single
Sarah J. Moss book and all of the Fourth Wing,
(36:00):
and we've just been having so much fun with our private,
little secret smutty book club and it's been amazing. And
I love fan to see, you know, my whole life.
And I really just like my imagination ran away with
these visuals of like these kind of brave, powerful, sword
carrying women, and I wanted this album to have a lead,
(36:24):
to be a journey, you know, And it's I really
I see it that way, Like if if the first
song is love of My Life, what if I got
what I wanted and the last song is dream House,
it's a it's a it's an album about doing what
needs to be done to learn enough about yourself to
get what you want. Wow, And I uh. And so
(36:45):
I wanted it to feel like a journey, like an
epic quest. And how do you tell an epic quest, Well,
you need an epic heroin and uh. And I wanted
to give the epic heroin an epic name. And so
you know, the heroine of My Dreams is my Trey
of Corso.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
It's beautiful too, and it's rare that you can like
google something these days and not.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Find an answer. Yeah, a kudos on that.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
It's a rebellion in some.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Ways'm raging against the internet. Yes, yes, I want to
be ungoogleable. Never gonna happen, Never gonna happen. My whole
life totally googleable. I was joking in the day, was like,
everyone I know I can google their birthday. I don't
need to remember their birthday because I can look it up.
And that's my weird life.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
But anyway, sadly I've.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Done that for friends.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
It'll be on the next record.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
But yeah, are you gonna do you? Are you?
Speaker 2 (37:41):
I imagine you guys are gonna keep making music in
all kinds of different iterations, right.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Like yeah, probably certainly in all kinds of iterations.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
I think.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
So that's the plan. We'll see.
Speaker 5 (37:51):
Do you.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Do you ever, because you're also make incredible music, Christian,
thank you?
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Do you ever bring Maya into that process?
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Absolutely? I mean it's we my last record. We wrote
a lot of it together.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Whenever I'm usually flattering to me, I'd never written on
anyone else's record ever, and it kind of I never
thought anyone ever want me to and meant the world
to me to be included in that way.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
I'd also never had anyone right on that might be
on like oh cool, that was your idea and I
expanded upon it or whatever it was. Maya is one
of my songwriting heroes, so I think like most songwriters,
I know, they have like a little collection of five
different people that they'll send voice memos to when they're
like think they have a good idea and be like
(38:38):
do I suck?
Speaker 5 (38:39):
Or like what's what's up?
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Like safe places.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
Maya's my number one guy to send stuff too, so
it's always like, I don't know. We work on all
kinds of my stuff together and her stuff, and it's
kind of like it gets blurry occasionally and then.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
We fight about it and then we figured it out.
Speaker 5 (39:02):
Yeah, I always figure out. I'm like, no, I want that,
and you're like, no, I want that.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, Well I gotta see.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I'm I'm somewhat jealous of the I mean, it's really
beautiful that you guys.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Not only do you have the sort of musical.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Connection and collaboration element, but the smutty book Club and.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
The Carport's good.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
I highly recommend the drawing of cartoon characters to get
out to you. I mean, you guys have an incredible
amount of you know, ways of bonding that are just
like really, I don't know, I don't know. Not everyone
has that, you know, these really deep, incredible but yet
fun ways to create.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Bonds and create memories.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
And it's really beautiful and the album is really, really,
really good. I wish I could play heavy ring because
that is my it's my favorite song right now.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I wish we could do. We haven't worked it up yet,
and as we've talked about for about twenty minutes, is hard.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
Yeah, very difficult.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Yeah, I need to like go back to school for
four years to learn how to play.
Speaker 5 (40:03):
It for a little tool.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
We'll play it on tour because it's my favorite song
on the record too, But but I do not feel qualif.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
Tonight even qualified to think about it really.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Great, Well they'll get a chance to see it on tour.
I can't wait to see it as myself. And thanks
so much for coming out, guys, and so.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
Happy, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Really awesome be able to listen to the last couple
of weeks.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Thank you, Thanks my hawk, Christian Lee Hudson, Thanks guys,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
An episode of description you'll find a link to a
playlist of our favorite songs from both Maya Hawk and
Christian Lee Hudson. Be sure to check out YouTube dot
com slash Broken Record Podcast to see you all of
our video interviews, and be sure to follow us on
Instagram at the Broken Record pot. Broken Record is produced
and edited by Leah Rhoads, with marketing help from Eric
Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. Broken
(40:58):
Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love
this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content
and ad free listening for four ninety nine a month.
Look for Pushing and Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. And
if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast app. Our theme musics
by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.
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