November 5, 2020 • 32 mins
S.G. Goodman turns traditional Southern storytelling on its head with songs that present a deeper, more complex look at life below the Mason-Dixon line. As a queer person who lives with mental illness, she often sings about the social and political change she'd like to see in her part of the country. Goodman talks to Bruce Headlam about her new album, produced by My Morning Jacket's Jim James, and plays some of the songs live from her home in Murray, Kentucky.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to
all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist,
which you can find a link to in the show
notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced
in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right
(00:28):
enjoyed the episode. On her debut album, Old Time Feeling,
SG Goodman turns traditional Southern storytelling on its head with
songs that present a deeper, more complex look at life
below the Mason Dixon Line. That's if it Ain't Me Babe,
from s G. Goodman's debut album, which was co produced
(00:49):
by My Morning Jackets Jim James. Sgs songs are filled
with purpose. As a queer person who lives with mental illness,
she often sings about the social and political change she
wants to see happen in the South. In this conversation
with Bruce Headlam, SG performs a few songs off her
debut album from her home in Murray, Kentucky. She also
(01:11):
talks about writing a breakup song that just happens to
resonate with the ongoing social justice demonstrations happening all over
the country today. This is broken record liner notes for
the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce Hedlam's conversation
(01:33):
with S. G. Goodman. She starts things off with the
performance of the song space and Time. That was beautiful.
Thank you so much, Thank you. That's the first song
on your new album, Yes, which is Old Time Feeling.
Can you tell me just a little bit about the
writing of that song. Oh yeah, So this song, you
(01:56):
know a lot of people think of it is general
love song, and and I don't mind that at all.
You know, artists really aren't in control of how people
interpret their work. But that really wasn't I guess you
could say it was a love love song in a
particular way, but that was at a written in a
(02:19):
particular time in my life where I was struggling with
mental health. And you know, I'm not shy about talking
about my struggle with suicide. And you know I have
a mental condition called obsessive compulsive disorder, which intensifies a
lot of those things when they begin to happen. And
(02:40):
so that was at a time in my life when
I really was in a way writing a good bye letter.
But you know, here I am singing it today, so
I guess you know, it had a different purpose. Hmm.
What was going on at that point in your life.
Were there situations that exacerbated your condition or was it
(03:02):
just a result of the things you deal with every day. Well,
you know, a mixture of both of those. I would say,
you know, I feel like there's a lot of statistics
against me with obsessive compulsive disorder, but also as a
queer person from the South. And you know, in the
(03:25):
same way that artists can't control how their work is interpreted,
people can't control how other people take certain news about
their loved ones or friends or community members. So I
would say at that point in my life, I had
been out for about six years, but certain people close
(03:48):
to me were, you know, not able to really give
the kind of love I felt I needed. So that
I feel like, even though I've found a lot of
peace and healing in those things, is still ways on
a person. And unfortunately, that was just a time where
(04:10):
that those particular situations were really intense for me and
you know, struggling with a sense of abandonment and things
like that, which I think is, you know, my story's
not like super unique. A lot of people experience that,
and I've just decided not to be quiet about it.
(04:32):
So when you play that song now the way you
just did, what's that like for you? Does it take
you back to that time or is it does it
help you put that time in the distance. I would
say that it's a mixed bag, you know. I feel
like when you're performing, you have a lot of things
you're trying to control in that moment, one remembering your lyrics,
(04:55):
remembering how to play an instrument. But sometimes, yeah, I
do think back to the moment when I wrote that,
which is really special to me. And you know, no
matter who in your life, isn't able to really show
up for you the way you need it. I've had
a lot of amazing chosen family and friends for a
(05:17):
long time now, and I wrote this song or finished
it up with my band in the room, and you know,
they really helped pull me through that moment. So all
in all, it also coincides with some really good and
positive memories. So I'm not really afraid to think about
(05:37):
the origins of that song because there was so many
wonderful things happening and wonderful people showing up for me too.
Did that song help change anybody's mind? I don't know.
You know, I feel like maybe to the people that
it really was directed to, I'm not sure if they
(06:02):
were or are in a moment of recognition to where
they could feel any sort of responsibility for that. So
we'll come back to that. I want to change subjects
for a minute though, Just something for the guitar nerds
out there, okay, because your guitar sounds so great. What
are you playing and how are you getting that great sound? Well?
(06:25):
This is a nineteen sixty nine guild Starfire four and
I love these guitars. And I've had this guitar for
about eleven years now, and I you know, I've been
told by many people I shouldn't play it out because
of its age and kind of being fragile. But I
(06:48):
feel like it still has a lot of playing to
do left in it, you know, and I feel like
it shouldn't retire. It should go out, you know, in
somebody's hands. That's my thoughts on that. It's got some
things to say still exactly. You know, I don't know
if I do it justice, but it sure feels good
to me. Now, there are a lot of sounds on
(07:11):
your album. It's a great, great sounding album, and we
should talk more about that too, But this particular song
just has that fifties dreamy quality to it, which I
find really kind of captivating and a little scary that sound.
Were you thinking to give a particular album or song
(07:31):
in mind for this particular one to get that sound?
You know? Really, my band and I pull from so much.
But and it just came out that way structurally when
my drummer came in and you know, just played that
beat in the way I'm playing the guitar, the song
(07:52):
kind of did what it wanted to. But when I
was thinking of soundscapes for this song and what I wanted,
and honestly the guitar solo in there, which really amplifies
that feel of an old time song. My bandmate Matt
Rowan the first time we ever played it as a band.
The day I finished this song. I still have it
(08:14):
recorded on my phone. It's the exact same solo. It's
never changed. It's what he came up with immediately, and
I kind of fought hard to keep that in the
song because that really does you know, you never know
as a songwriter when you're finished. And a good friend
of mine, Aaron Ray, told me one day we'll have
(08:35):
you said everything you need to say. And I felt
like after I wrote really the only true verse in
that song, when Matt came in with that guitar lick,
I felt like he said everything I couldn't say. Hmm. Now,
most people when they think of Kentucky, I think really
think of eastern Kentucky. They think about glacia and coal mining.
(08:58):
Tell me a little bit about western Kentucky, Like, what
are you seeing when you look out the window? Well,
in Murray, in particular, I'm next to land between the lakes,
which was a huge man made lake system, so there's
protected forest out there. It's a beautiful landscape. But where
(09:20):
I'm originally from, I was born in western Tennessee, raised
in western Kentucky in a small town called Hickman, which
was on the Mississippi River. So that landscape is more
reminiscent of the Delta. So a lot of people don't think,
but my dad is technically a Delta farmer. You know.
(09:42):
So I was raised right on the Mississippi rivers, So
what kind of what kind of farmer was he? He
still is a farmer. He grows mono crops, so wheat, soybeans, corn.
You know, we've got a few horses, I guess because
we're Kentucky, but we don't do livestock or anything like that. Right.
(10:04):
Was there a lot of music in your house growing up?
You know my dad, because I mean I grew up
in a town of less than three thousand people, and
my dad was a music lover. And when you farm,
you spend a lot of time in a vehicle or
a tractor, so we always were listening to music. And
(10:25):
you know, I have an early memory of my dad
and his brothers throwing a party at his shop and
having a bluegrass band come in for the fish fry.
But as far as like people who were seeking to
be involved in music, I mean, my mother put me
and my brothers and piano lessons at an early age.
I quit. I couldn't handle performing. But you know, singing
(10:49):
and music is a pastime. It's not necessarily something everybody
takes seriously. It's more of a pastime. So I guess
sort of we're a musical family. But did you when
did you pick up the guitar? Probably around age fifteen.
I started writing lyrics around age like that. I knew
(11:12):
I was writing lyrics around age fourteen, and then I
decided I wanted to play the guitar. I think I
really wanted to play an instrument where I could go
and be by myself and not be around anyone when
I was trying to learn it. The piano was in
the middle of the house, you know, so I could
sneak off and lock a door somewhere and be by
(11:35):
myself trying to figure it out. And you said you
didn't like performing on the piano. Did you always like
performing on guitar. No, I've never really liked performing until
probably the past five years. It was just I love
I love songwriting, and performing is something if you're trying
(11:55):
to get your songs out you kind of have to do.
But I was more are forced into performing through church
growing up, you know, kind of with that threat of
if you have a gift from God, if you don't
use it, you'll lose it, you know. I was raising
a real conservative house, and so performing was something I
(12:17):
grew to love. Do you like it now? I do,
And I really have found that I really miss it.
I guess I suffered from imposter syndrome when it comes
to performances. But now I feel like these last several
months have made me realize that, well, maybe I am
(12:40):
a performer. We'll be right back with Bruce Headlam's conversation
with SG. After the break, We're back with SG. Goodman.
I'm sure when you thought about putting out your first album,
you weren't thinking, you know, I'll put it out in
the middle of a pandemic and there's protests all across
(13:02):
the country and a very contentious election. You probably weren't
thinking that way. Yeah, you know, I wasn't born a
fortune teller, so but what can you do. We did
the best we could with the circumstances. And I don't
have any problem, you know, putting out music while there's
(13:24):
protests or when some you know, people need to hear
people from the South who are of the progressive persuasion.
So I feel like my album has a place in
this moment. We should talk a little more about the moment.
But would you like to do another song for us? Sure?
This one's called Old Time Feeling, the title track from
(13:46):
my album Thank You, Thank You. The record version of
that is very, very aggressive, a lot of guitar. It's
probably the most aggressive song on the album. It's terrific,
But I love that version. Thank You You know, not
being able to pack my band in my house in
(14:06):
the middle of a pandemic is a little bit of
a neutering feeling, I'm sure. But you've got some very
interesting lyrics in there. You mentioned people who want change
then do something strange. They go where I can't read
the precise line, but they go where everybody feels the same.
So who is that aimed at that line? You know?
(14:29):
I feel like there is a pressure put on people
in marginalized groups and in the South sometimes that can
be progressives, LGBT community, things like that, to leave the
South to find more like minded people. And there's a
(14:51):
part of me that totally understands that. You know, a
lot of people have to leave for either their physical
health or mental health. But what happens is there is
little to no representation for those groups or those ideals.
And I really believe change comes from people seeing you
(15:11):
live it out to your neighbors. And so that was
more of a called of arms for people who, you know,
point a finger back at the South, maybe their home
where they came from, and say, well, that place is
never going to change. Well it's a lost cause or whatever. Well,
believe me, it always will be if everybody who wants
(15:33):
to see it change leaves. So that's just problematic for
me as a person, as a progressive from the South
who knows that they're like minded people like me here,
but we sometimes either aren't the story that the coast
are telling about where we're from. And I feel like
(15:54):
a lot of that is because you know, we have
responsibility to provide that narrative for people people, and a
lot of folks are not. What is that story that
we're missing? Well, I would say, you know that there
are a lot of progressive initiatives in the South. There
are a lot of people who are not subject or
(16:19):
where they are subject, but they're not victim to the
conditioning that people from rural places and the South have
experienced through politicians and through these narratives from people on
the outside. And you know, but because those initiatives do
not play into those stereotypes, we don't, you know, get
(16:42):
the attention that we deserve because in my opinion, when
the South changes, and I'm going to say when what's
going to happen is when the coast and when other
places in the country don't have a place to just
always point a finger at for their aggressive, our regressive
policies and different things like that. They're gonna have to
(17:05):
start taking responsibility for what's happening in their own backyard.
And you know, the South and rural communities a lot
of times are a good way to avoid responsibility for
other people. You're also speaking right now as a white Southerner,
and that's tricky territory right now, because Confederate monuments are
(17:30):
being torn down and not you particularly, but but you know,
white Southerners are you know, accused of hanging on to
these face of old prejudices. Is that fair? Do you think? Well?
I would say in a large part, yeah, we're gonna
have to take, you know, responsibility for that. But once again,
(17:53):
you should know, even in my little town of Murray,
we gather around our Confederate monument, are pushing for change
every Saturday morning leading marches. You know, there's a lot
of folks here who are calling out Grandpa at the
table for saying a racial slur. You know, there's a
lot of complexity I feel in responsibility on white people
(18:17):
who know what's being said behind closed doors in their
homes and when they're hanging out with other white friends.
You know, white supremacy and racism is a white person's problem.
We're we're keeping it alive, and it's our our job to,
(18:38):
you know, work on eradicating that, because you know, we're
the ones imposing the consequences. So yes, I do feel like, unfortunately,
I think there's there's responsibility there that we can't deny
in any way, and I wouldn't ever try to. That's
(18:59):
a great answer, thank you very much. I joked earlier
about you releasing this album in the middle of a pandemic,
but there are a lot of songs here that would
seem to kind of address the current moment. The song
about you know, burning a city down in your name,
of course, suddenly has well, you tell me, what were
(19:21):
you thinking about when you wrote that song? Nothing about
where you're going with it, But you know, I was
experiencing a heartbreak, and I think you know, as a
person who's been in counseling for many years and you
understand how when you're experiencing trauma, sometimes other traumas come
(19:46):
up in that experience. And so I have some biblical analogies.
I have a reference to a true story about my
father who was severely burned while burning off of a
wheat field one time, and so you know, I get
(20:06):
where you're going at right now, I think, But I'm
you know, like I said earlier, I'm not a fortune teller,
so there was no way of me knowing that that
could be applicable to any current events. Now I realize
you haven't been able to play in public, but it's
it's hard not to think of the song that way.
It's hard not to think of George Floyd to be
(20:28):
on a Taylor and you know many of the protests,
and of course I should say, I'm not saying that
protesters are the ones burning down things, far from it.
But does this album it feels political to me? And
I know it wasn't written that way, and a lot
of great love songs and a lot of great songs
can feel political even though they were very personal. Has
(20:51):
the meaning of any of this changed for you? Is
it a different feeling playing these songs now? Do they
feel bigger or more social? I mean, in my opinion,
you know, like old time feeling. I think I wrote
that in twenty seventeen what you're seeing right now, and
(21:12):
everybody should understand I didn't have to have current events
to give me inspiration for what's happening right now. This
has been happening for a long time. You know, my
feelings about the South and the change that needs to happen,
Uh didn't come two months ago. I've lived here all
(21:34):
my life. You know, I'm just writing on my life experiences.
So sure, I mean, you know, like I said, I
don't I don't waste any time thinking about how people
will interpret a thing. I think that's interesting. You're the
first person who's ever brought my attention to the possible
(21:55):
relevance of those words. So yeah, these are these are
rough times, but I feel like there's a lot more,
you know, important voices and messages being said right now,
and I'm not going to try to co opt them
and make my music fit into that narrative. You mentioned
there's some biblical references in some of your songs, including
(22:17):
Burned Down the City. Are there other books that have
influenced you with your lyrics, because your lyrics are very literary.
I don't mean that they're precious, but that they have
a certain kind of almost novel like feeling to them. Well, so,
one of my writing mentors is a man by the
(22:40):
name of del Ray Phillips. He was a Pullet Surprise
nominee for his collection of short stories My People as Waltz,
which anybody listening I highly recommend when I took classes
from him. But we've been friends, you know, really close,
ever since I graduated college. And he came to me
one day and he said, all right, I need you
(23:02):
to do something for me. Never read Flannery O'Connor again.
You have figured it out, you understand it, but you
need to stop, just quit. You know, there were certain heroes,
literary heroes that you know. He started encouraged me to
read more contemporary writers like Jennifer Egan, who wrote an
(23:23):
amazing short story called Safari and find that in some
of the New Yorker archives and things like that. But
I don't know, I read a lot of different things,
and I love stories. And when you're a Southerner, stories
passed the time. And I grew up with amazing storytellers,
you know, oral stories. So I'd have to give a
(23:45):
lot of credit to people that I grew up around.
Was your father one of those? Was he a good storyteller?
He is a good storyteller. There's a lot of great storytellers.
I grew up across the street from a lady named
Miss Betty McMullen, but she was Miss Betty Thomas, and
(24:07):
our family was connected because my grandfather used his GI
bill to buy out her father, who he worked for
as a farm hand. He bought mister Thomas's farm equipment,
and that's how my family got into farming. They were sharecroppers,
and Miss Betty's husband, mister Sonny, moved her in across
(24:30):
from my family when I was a child because he
was dying of cancer. And one of my first jobs
was to take care of Miss Betty. And she's the
one who I can think for turning me onto a
lot of my old country heroes like Lefty, Frizelle Hanks,
Senior Patsy Klein because her family during the Depression had
(24:51):
had money compared to everyone else, so she actually got
to go to some of these concerts and would tell
me these stories and and you know, she had a
lot of them. Would show me a picture of her
and her sister with the big frilly boots and things.
But I cleaned her house growing up, and I kept
her company, so I had a lot of these weird
(25:12):
stories about her going and seeing Jerry Lee Lewis taking
a train to Union City, which is now just a
fifteen minute drive my closest Walmart, and there was a
lot of rich storytellers around me growing up. We're going
to take a quick break, but we'll be back with
su Goodman. We're back with SG Goodman and the performance
(25:39):
of her song Redbird Morning. That's beautiful, just to thank you.
Heartbreaking song and I'm not even sure why it's so
heartbreaking because it's sort of up tempo. But then you're
talking at some point about whether you'll be loved and
what did that song come out of? Well, I got dumped,
(26:00):
my live in left me, and you know, I think
when you are heartbroken and maybe some maybe a relationship ends,
you become a detective and you try to figure out
at which moments things kind of went south. And I
left out of Kentucky on right before my birthday that year,
(26:21):
and I went and delivered some goods to Standing Rock
with some friends of mine, and I remember that not
going over too well in that relationship. You know, they
wanted to celebrate my birthday and you know all that stuff,
and I typically do what I want to do in life,
so I cut out in the middle of the night
(26:42):
and drove a day to Cannonball, And that, of course
wasn't the reason why our relationship is off. It's just
what I was thinking about in that moment. And also
I was putting out a record right after we had
broken up, and her grandmother died on the day of
(27:05):
my release, and we were both very close to our
nana's is what we both call it, which is why
our reference our nana or in the song. You know,
when year or when a relationship ends, there's boundaries put
up in place, and you can't be the person who
comforts that person. And there's an old wives tale in
(27:28):
the South that a redbird is sent to you. It's
a person who's passed away coming to give you comfort
or to visit you. And I just had a lot
on my mind when I wrote it, It's beautiful. Thank you.
When you set out to become a professional musician, where
(27:50):
did you think your work was going to fit in
in the world. Did you think about that? Were you
going to be a country performer, a folk performer, or
was it just I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do
and we'll see. Well. When I started out chasing music,
I actually wrote pop music and I did some touring
(28:13):
with that, but it felt I love to write any
kind of genre, you know. I would love to write
from anybody, from Lizzo, I would love to produce a
rap song. I just loved the craft of writing. But
there's something about when you're singing it live, when you're
having to put on the performer hat, that I didn't
(28:34):
really feel authentic in my presentation as a pop musician.
It wasn't very much me. And I was talking to
a music executive who had heard some of my earlier
pop music and was chasing me down to see if
I was still doing it, and I told him no,
that I was started writing you know kind of what
(28:57):
you're hearing now. This was for another name that I
went under, the Savage Radley, and I said, no, I've
started playing with these boys and I'm really excited. And
he told me, he said, well, I'm gonna tell you
the honest strength about it. You're gonna work really hard
for about five or six years, and you'll be lucky
if anybody ever gives you any attention for that. And
(29:20):
you know what, he was right, I did. I swear
it was about six years to that phone call where
I actually, you know, found a team and started turning
heads a little bit with what I was doing. I mean,
when you're thrown into the Americana genre is basically a
big old umbrella where they don't know where to put you. Right,
(29:40):
you know one reason I'm asking, and yes, you are
put into the Americana bucket. But I keep hearing about Nashville,
which is not too far from you, and how female
acts just aren't doing anything. It's all I guess it's
a male acts right now in country music. But all
I do as I keep interviewing people like you, Margot Price,
(30:05):
Yola and Lucinda Williams, who obviously as a big track record.
But I just keep thinking, but all the good songs
are coming from women. I just sort of don't get.
I don't get what the problem is. Maybe I'm just
not thinking read about Nashville I think, I mean, I
might get in trouble for saying this, but I'm just
gonna tell it how I see it. I think a
(30:25):
lot of the men who get a lot of attention
for their music, they have a strong male fan base,
and it's because they see them and they're like, oh man,
he don't give a shit, and I don't give a shit,
and I love him because he don't give a shit.
I'm a fan. You know. It's like this thing, and
you know, I feel like there's a lot of people
(30:47):
who just kind of identify with the persona of what
they're seeing instead of great writing. I mean, I have
a lot of female friends who are amazing writers, and
I know I won't say whose names or nothing, but
I'd put them up against any of those boys, and
I'd say they're making just as good or better records
(31:08):
in a lot of cases. You know, there's there are
plenty of amazing male songwriters out there, but one thing
that a female has hard time doing is to convince
a man that they want to be like her. So
I feel like a lot of my ladies are the
token lady on the ticket, including myself. Sometimes, how we're
(31:34):
going to bust through that ceiling, I think I don't
really know, really, I guess just keep doing it. Yeah,
I'm just walking around thankful that I'm getting to play
music for a living. I don't want to write albums
about how hard I've had it. You know, it's just
like shit, I can be more creative than that well
(31:57):
you're putting it. You're putting up great music, so there's
nothing more badass than that. Thank you so much for
talking and playing. It was wonderful. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Thanks to ask You Goodman for playing songs off your
debut album and for sharing some of the inspiration behind
her music. You can hear sg's album on a playlist
(32:18):
at broken record podcast dot com, and be sure to
subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash
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(32:39):
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justin Richmond Bass
Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to
all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist,
which you can find a link to in the show
notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced
in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right
(00:28):
enjoyed the episode. On her debut album, Old Time Feeling,
SG Goodman turns traditional Southern storytelling on its head with
songs that present a deeper, more complex look at life
below the Mason Dixon Line. That's if it Ain't Me Babe,
from s G. Goodman's debut album, which was co produced
(00:49):
by My Morning Jackets Jim James. Sgs songs are filled
with purpose. As a queer person who lives with mental illness,
she often sings about the social and political change she
wants to see happen in the South. In this conversation
with Bruce Headlam, SG performs a few songs off her
debut album from her home in Murray, Kentucky. She also
(01:11):
talks about writing a breakup song that just happens to
resonate with the ongoing social justice demonstrations happening all over
the country today. This is broken record liner notes for
the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce Hedlam's conversation
(01:33):
with S. G. Goodman. She starts things off with the
performance of the song space and Time. That was beautiful.
Thank you so much, Thank you. That's the first song
on your new album, Yes, which is Old Time Feeling.
Can you tell me just a little bit about the
writing of that song. Oh yeah, So this song, you
(01:56):
know a lot of people think of it is general
love song, and and I don't mind that at all.
You know, artists really aren't in control of how people
interpret their work. But that really wasn't I guess you
could say it was a love love song in a
particular way, but that was at a written in a
(02:19):
particular time in my life where I was struggling with
mental health. And you know, I'm not shy about talking
about my struggle with suicide. And you know I have
a mental condition called obsessive compulsive disorder, which intensifies a
lot of those things when they begin to happen. And
(02:40):
so that was at a time in my life when
I really was in a way writing a good bye letter.
But you know, here I am singing it today, so
I guess you know, it had a different purpose. Hmm.
What was going on at that point in your life.
Were there situations that exacerbated your condition or was it
(03:02):
just a result of the things you deal with every day. Well,
you know, a mixture of both of those. I would say,
you know, I feel like there's a lot of statistics
against me with obsessive compulsive disorder, but also as a
queer person from the South. And you know, in the
(03:25):
same way that artists can't control how their work is interpreted,
people can't control how other people take certain news about
their loved ones or friends or community members. So I
would say at that point in my life, I had
been out for about six years, but certain people close
(03:48):
to me were, you know, not able to really give
the kind of love I felt I needed. So that
I feel like, even though I've found a lot of
peace and healing in those things, is still ways on
a person. And unfortunately, that was just a time where
(04:10):
that those particular situations were really intense for me and
you know, struggling with a sense of abandonment and things
like that, which I think is, you know, my story's
not like super unique. A lot of people experience that,
and I've just decided not to be quiet about it.
(04:32):
So when you play that song now the way you
just did, what's that like for you? Does it take
you back to that time or is it does it
help you put that time in the distance. I would
say that it's a mixed bag, you know. I feel
like when you're performing, you have a lot of things
you're trying to control in that moment, one remembering your lyrics,
(04:55):
remembering how to play an instrument. But sometimes, yeah, I
do think back to the moment when I wrote that,
which is really special to me. And you know, no
matter who in your life, isn't able to really show
up for you the way you need it. I've had
a lot of amazing chosen family and friends for a
(05:17):
long time now, and I wrote this song or finished
it up with my band in the room, and you know,
they really helped pull me through that moment. So all
in all, it also coincides with some really good and
positive memories. So I'm not really afraid to think about
(05:37):
the origins of that song because there was so many
wonderful things happening and wonderful people showing up for me too.
Did that song help change anybody's mind? I don't know.
You know, I feel like maybe to the people that
it really was directed to, I'm not sure if they
(06:02):
were or are in a moment of recognition to where
they could feel any sort of responsibility for that. So
we'll come back to that. I want to change subjects
for a minute though, Just something for the guitar nerds
out there, okay, because your guitar sounds so great. What
are you playing and how are you getting that great sound? Well?
(06:25):
This is a nineteen sixty nine guild Starfire four and
I love these guitars. And I've had this guitar for
about eleven years now, and I you know, I've been
told by many people I shouldn't play it out because
of its age and kind of being fragile. But I
(06:48):
feel like it still has a lot of playing to
do left in it, you know, and I feel like
it shouldn't retire. It should go out, you know, in
somebody's hands. That's my thoughts on that. It's got some
things to say still exactly. You know, I don't know
if I do it justice, but it sure feels good
to me. Now, there are a lot of sounds on
(07:11):
your album. It's a great, great sounding album, and we
should talk more about that too, But this particular song
just has that fifties dreamy quality to it, which I
find really kind of captivating and a little scary that sound.
Were you thinking to give a particular album or song
(07:31):
in mind for this particular one to get that sound?
You know? Really, my band and I pull from so much.
But and it just came out that way structurally when
my drummer came in and you know, just played that
beat in the way I'm playing the guitar, the song
(07:52):
kind of did what it wanted to. But when I
was thinking of soundscapes for this song and what I wanted,
and honestly the guitar solo in there, which really amplifies
that feel of an old time song. My bandmate Matt
Rowan the first time we ever played it as a band.
The day I finished this song. I still have it
(08:14):
recorded on my phone. It's the exact same solo. It's
never changed. It's what he came up with immediately, and
I kind of fought hard to keep that in the
song because that really does you know, you never know
as a songwriter when you're finished. And a good friend
of mine, Aaron Ray, told me one day we'll have
(08:35):
you said everything you need to say. And I felt
like after I wrote really the only true verse in
that song, when Matt came in with that guitar lick,
I felt like he said everything I couldn't say. Hmm. Now,
most people when they think of Kentucky, I think really
think of eastern Kentucky. They think about glacia and coal mining.
(08:58):
Tell me a little bit about western Kentucky, Like, what
are you seeing when you look out the window? Well,
in Murray, in particular, I'm next to land between the lakes,
which was a huge man made lake system, so there's
protected forest out there. It's a beautiful landscape. But where
(09:20):
I'm originally from, I was born in western Tennessee, raised
in western Kentucky in a small town called Hickman, which
was on the Mississippi River. So that landscape is more
reminiscent of the Delta. So a lot of people don't think,
but my dad is technically a Delta farmer. You know.
(09:42):
So I was raised right on the Mississippi rivers, So
what kind of what kind of farmer was he? He
still is a farmer. He grows mono crops, so wheat, soybeans, corn.
You know, we've got a few horses, I guess because
we're Kentucky, but we don't do livestock or anything like that. Right.
(10:04):
Was there a lot of music in your house growing up?
You know my dad, because I mean I grew up
in a town of less than three thousand people, and
my dad was a music lover. And when you farm,
you spend a lot of time in a vehicle or
a tractor, so we always were listening to music. And
(10:25):
you know, I have an early memory of my dad
and his brothers throwing a party at his shop and
having a bluegrass band come in for the fish fry.
But as far as like people who were seeking to
be involved in music, I mean, my mother put me
and my brothers and piano lessons at an early age.
I quit. I couldn't handle performing. But you know, singing
(10:49):
and music is a pastime. It's not necessarily something everybody
takes seriously. It's more of a pastime. So I guess
sort of we're a musical family. But did you when
did you pick up the guitar? Probably around age fifteen.
I started writing lyrics around age like that. I knew
(11:12):
I was writing lyrics around age fourteen, and then I
decided I wanted to play the guitar. I think I
really wanted to play an instrument where I could go
and be by myself and not be around anyone when
I was trying to learn it. The piano was in
the middle of the house, you know, so I could
sneak off and lock a door somewhere and be by
(11:35):
myself trying to figure it out. And you said you
didn't like performing on the piano. Did you always like
performing on guitar. No, I've never really liked performing until
probably the past five years. It was just I love
I love songwriting, and performing is something if you're trying
(11:55):
to get your songs out you kind of have to do.
But I was more are forced into performing through church
growing up, you know, kind of with that threat of
if you have a gift from God, if you don't
use it, you'll lose it, you know. I was raising
a real conservative house, and so performing was something I
(12:17):
grew to love. Do you like it now? I do,
And I really have found that I really miss it.
I guess I suffered from imposter syndrome when it comes
to performances. But now I feel like these last several
months have made me realize that, well, maybe I am
(12:40):
a performer. We'll be right back with Bruce Headlam's conversation
with SG. After the break, We're back with SG. Goodman.
I'm sure when you thought about putting out your first album,
you weren't thinking, you know, I'll put it out in
the middle of a pandemic and there's protests all across
(13:02):
the country and a very contentious election. You probably weren't
thinking that way. Yeah, you know, I wasn't born a
fortune teller, so but what can you do. We did
the best we could with the circumstances. And I don't
have any problem, you know, putting out music while there's
(13:24):
protests or when some you know, people need to hear
people from the South who are of the progressive persuasion.
So I feel like my album has a place in
this moment. We should talk a little more about the moment.
But would you like to do another song for us? Sure?
This one's called Old Time Feeling, the title track from
(13:46):
my album Thank You, Thank You. The record version of
that is very, very aggressive, a lot of guitar. It's
probably the most aggressive song on the album. It's terrific,
But I love that version. Thank You You know, not
being able to pack my band in my house in
(14:06):
the middle of a pandemic is a little bit of
a neutering feeling, I'm sure. But you've got some very
interesting lyrics in there. You mentioned people who want change
then do something strange. They go where I can't read
the precise line, but they go where everybody feels the same.
So who is that aimed at that line? You know?
(14:29):
I feel like there is a pressure put on people
in marginalized groups and in the South sometimes that can
be progressives, LGBT community, things like that, to leave the
South to find more like minded people. And there's a
(14:51):
part of me that totally understands that. You know, a
lot of people have to leave for either their physical
health or mental health. But what happens is there is
little to no representation for those groups or those ideals.
And I really believe change comes from people seeing you
(15:11):
live it out to your neighbors. And so that was
more of a called of arms for people who, you know,
point a finger back at the South, maybe their home
where they came from, and say, well, that place is
never going to change. Well it's a lost cause or whatever. Well,
believe me, it always will be if everybody who wants
(15:33):
to see it change leaves. So that's just problematic for
me as a person, as a progressive from the South
who knows that they're like minded people like me here,
but we sometimes either aren't the story that the coast
are telling about where we're from. And I feel like
(15:54):
a lot of that is because you know, we have
responsibility to provide that narrative for people people, and a
lot of folks are not. What is that story that
we're missing? Well, I would say, you know that there
are a lot of progressive initiatives in the South. There
are a lot of people who are not subject or
(16:19):
where they are subject, but they're not victim to the
conditioning that people from rural places and the South have
experienced through politicians and through these narratives from people on
the outside. And you know, but because those initiatives do
not play into those stereotypes, we don't, you know, get
(16:42):
the attention that we deserve because in my opinion, when
the South changes, and I'm going to say when what's
going to happen is when the coast and when other
places in the country don't have a place to just
always point a finger at for their aggressive, our regressive
policies and different things like that. They're gonna have to
(17:05):
start taking responsibility for what's happening in their own backyard.
And you know, the South and rural communities a lot
of times are a good way to avoid responsibility for
other people. You're also speaking right now as a white Southerner,
and that's tricky territory right now, because Confederate monuments are
(17:30):
being torn down and not you particularly, but but you know,
white Southerners are you know, accused of hanging on to
these face of old prejudices. Is that fair? Do you think? Well?
I would say in a large part, yeah, we're gonna
have to take, you know, responsibility for that. But once again,
(17:53):
you should know, even in my little town of Murray,
we gather around our Confederate monument, are pushing for change
every Saturday morning leading marches. You know, there's a lot
of folks here who are calling out Grandpa at the
table for saying a racial slur. You know, there's a
lot of complexity I feel in responsibility on white people
(18:17):
who know what's being said behind closed doors in their
homes and when they're hanging out with other white friends.
You know, white supremacy and racism is a white person's problem.
We're we're keeping it alive, and it's our our job to,
(18:38):
you know, work on eradicating that, because you know, we're
the ones imposing the consequences. So yes, I do feel like, unfortunately,
I think there's there's responsibility there that we can't deny
in any way, and I wouldn't ever try to. That's
(18:59):
a great answer, thank you very much. I joked earlier
about you releasing this album in the middle of a pandemic,
but there are a lot of songs here that would
seem to kind of address the current moment. The song
about you know, burning a city down in your name,
of course, suddenly has well, you tell me, what were
(19:21):
you thinking about when you wrote that song? Nothing about
where you're going with it, But you know, I was
experiencing a heartbreak, and I think you know, as a
person who's been in counseling for many years and you
understand how when you're experiencing trauma, sometimes other traumas come
(19:46):
up in that experience. And so I have some biblical analogies.
I have a reference to a true story about my
father who was severely burned while burning off of a
wheat field one time, and so you know, I get
(20:06):
where you're going at right now, I think, But I'm
you know, like I said earlier, I'm not a fortune teller,
so there was no way of me knowing that that
could be applicable to any current events. Now I realize
you haven't been able to play in public, but it's
it's hard not to think of the song that way.
It's hard not to think of George Floyd to be
(20:28):
on a Taylor and you know many of the protests,
and of course I should say, I'm not saying that
protesters are the ones burning down things, far from it.
But does this album it feels political to me? And
I know it wasn't written that way, and a lot
of great love songs and a lot of great songs
can feel political even though they were very personal. Has
(20:51):
the meaning of any of this changed for you? Is
it a different feeling playing these songs now? Do they
feel bigger or more social? I mean, in my opinion,
you know, like old time feeling. I think I wrote
that in twenty seventeen what you're seeing right now, and
(21:12):
everybody should understand I didn't have to have current events
to give me inspiration for what's happening right now. This
has been happening for a long time. You know, my
feelings about the South and the change that needs to happen,
Uh didn't come two months ago. I've lived here all
(21:34):
my life. You know, I'm just writing on my life experiences.
So sure, I mean, you know, like I said, I
don't I don't waste any time thinking about how people
will interpret a thing. I think that's interesting. You're the
first person who's ever brought my attention to the possible
(21:55):
relevance of those words. So yeah, these are these are
rough times, but I feel like there's a lot more,
you know, important voices and messages being said right now,
and I'm not going to try to co opt them
and make my music fit into that narrative. You mentioned
there's some biblical references in some of your songs, including
(22:17):
Burned Down the City. Are there other books that have
influenced you with your lyrics, because your lyrics are very literary.
I don't mean that they're precious, but that they have
a certain kind of almost novel like feeling to them. Well, so,
one of my writing mentors is a man by the
(22:40):
name of del Ray Phillips. He was a Pullet Surprise
nominee for his collection of short stories My People as Waltz,
which anybody listening I highly recommend when I took classes
from him. But we've been friends, you know, really close,
ever since I graduated college. And he came to me
one day and he said, all right, I need you
(23:02):
to do something for me. Never read Flannery O'Connor again.
You have figured it out, you understand it, but you
need to stop, just quit. You know, there were certain heroes,
literary heroes that you know. He started encouraged me to
read more contemporary writers like Jennifer Egan, who wrote an
(23:23):
amazing short story called Safari and find that in some
of the New Yorker archives and things like that. But
I don't know, I read a lot of different things,
and I love stories. And when you're a Southerner, stories
passed the time. And I grew up with amazing storytellers,
you know, oral stories. So I'd have to give a
(23:45):
lot of credit to people that I grew up around.
Was your father one of those? Was he a good storyteller?
He is a good storyteller. There's a lot of great storytellers.
I grew up across the street from a lady named
Miss Betty McMullen, but she was Miss Betty Thomas, and
(24:07):
our family was connected because my grandfather used his GI
bill to buy out her father, who he worked for
as a farm hand. He bought mister Thomas's farm equipment,
and that's how my family got into farming. They were sharecroppers,
and Miss Betty's husband, mister Sonny, moved her in across
(24:30):
from my family when I was a child because he
was dying of cancer. And one of my first jobs
was to take care of Miss Betty. And she's the
one who I can think for turning me onto a
lot of my old country heroes like Lefty, Frizelle Hanks,
Senior Patsy Klein because her family during the Depression had
(24:51):
had money compared to everyone else, so she actually got
to go to some of these concerts and would tell
me these stories and and you know, she had a
lot of them. Would show me a picture of her
and her sister with the big frilly boots and things.
But I cleaned her house growing up, and I kept
her company, so I had a lot of these weird
(25:12):
stories about her going and seeing Jerry Lee Lewis taking
a train to Union City, which is now just a
fifteen minute drive my closest Walmart, and there was a
lot of rich storytellers around me growing up. We're going
to take a quick break, but we'll be back with
su Goodman. We're back with SG Goodman and the performance
(25:39):
of her song Redbird Morning. That's beautiful, just to thank you.
Heartbreaking song and I'm not even sure why it's so
heartbreaking because it's sort of up tempo. But then you're
talking at some point about whether you'll be loved and
what did that song come out of? Well, I got dumped,
(26:00):
my live in left me, and you know, I think
when you are heartbroken and maybe some maybe a relationship ends,
you become a detective and you try to figure out
at which moments things kind of went south. And I
left out of Kentucky on right before my birthday that year,
(26:21):
and I went and delivered some goods to Standing Rock
with some friends of mine, and I remember that not
going over too well in that relationship. You know, they
wanted to celebrate my birthday and you know all that stuff,
and I typically do what I want to do in life,
so I cut out in the middle of the night
(26:42):
and drove a day to Cannonball, And that, of course
wasn't the reason why our relationship is off. It's just
what I was thinking about in that moment. And also
I was putting out a record right after we had
broken up, and her grandmother died on the day of
(27:05):
my release, and we were both very close to our
nana's is what we both call it, which is why
our reference our nana or in the song. You know,
when year or when a relationship ends, there's boundaries put
up in place, and you can't be the person who
comforts that person. And there's an old wives tale in
(27:28):
the South that a redbird is sent to you. It's
a person who's passed away coming to give you comfort
or to visit you. And I just had a lot
on my mind when I wrote it, It's beautiful. Thank you.
When you set out to become a professional musician, where
(27:50):
did you think your work was going to fit in
in the world. Did you think about that? Were you
going to be a country performer, a folk performer, or
was it just I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do
and we'll see. Well. When I started out chasing music,
I actually wrote pop music and I did some touring
(28:13):
with that, but it felt I love to write any
kind of genre, you know. I would love to write
from anybody, from Lizzo, I would love to produce a
rap song. I just loved the craft of writing. But
there's something about when you're singing it live, when you're
having to put on the performer hat, that I didn't
(28:34):
really feel authentic in my presentation as a pop musician.
It wasn't very much me. And I was talking to
a music executive who had heard some of my earlier
pop music and was chasing me down to see if
I was still doing it, and I told him no,
that I was started writing you know kind of what
(28:57):
you're hearing now. This was for another name that I
went under, the Savage Radley, and I said, no, I've
started playing with these boys and I'm really excited. And
he told me, he said, well, I'm gonna tell you
the honest strength about it. You're gonna work really hard
for about five or six years, and you'll be lucky
if anybody ever gives you any attention for that. And
(29:20):
you know what, he was right, I did. I swear
it was about six years to that phone call where
I actually, you know, found a team and started turning
heads a little bit with what I was doing. I mean,
when you're thrown into the Americana genre is basically a
big old umbrella where they don't know where to put you. Right,
(29:40):
you know one reason I'm asking, and yes, you are
put into the Americana bucket. But I keep hearing about Nashville,
which is not too far from you, and how female
acts just aren't doing anything. It's all I guess it's
a male acts right now in country music. But all
I do as I keep interviewing people like you, Margot Price,
(30:05):
Yola and Lucinda Williams, who obviously as a big track record.
But I just keep thinking, but all the good songs
are coming from women. I just sort of don't get.
I don't get what the problem is. Maybe I'm just
not thinking read about Nashville I think, I mean, I
might get in trouble for saying this, but I'm just
gonna tell it how I see it. I think a
(30:25):
lot of the men who get a lot of attention
for their music, they have a strong male fan base,
and it's because they see them and they're like, oh man,
he don't give a shit, and I don't give a shit,
and I love him because he don't give a shit.
I'm a fan. You know. It's like this thing, and
you know, I feel like there's a lot of people
(30:47):
who just kind of identify with the persona of what
they're seeing instead of great writing. I mean, I have
a lot of female friends who are amazing writers, and
I know I won't say whose names or nothing, but
I'd put them up against any of those boys, and
I'd say they're making just as good or better records
(31:08):
in a lot of cases. You know, there's there are
plenty of amazing male songwriters out there, but one thing
that a female has hard time doing is to convince
a man that they want to be like her. So
I feel like a lot of my ladies are the
token lady on the ticket, including myself. Sometimes, how we're
(31:34):
going to bust through that ceiling, I think I don't
really know, really, I guess just keep doing it. Yeah,
I'm just walking around thankful that I'm getting to play
music for a living. I don't want to write albums
about how hard I've had it. You know, it's just
like shit, I can be more creative than that well
(31:57):
you're putting it. You're putting up great music, so there's
nothing more badass than that. Thank you so much for
talking and playing. It was wonderful. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Thanks to ask You Goodman for playing songs off your
debut album and for sharing some of the inspiration behind
her music. You can hear sg's album on a playlist
(32:18):
at broken record podcast dot com, and be sure to
subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash
broken record Podcast. There you can find extended cuts of
new and old episodes. Broken Record is produced with help
from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler and
his executive Produced by Neil LaBelle. Broken Record is a
(32:39):
production of Pushkin Industries and if you like Broken Record,
please remember to share, rate, and review our show on
your podcast at our theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm
justin Richmond Bass
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