Notes from the Brink

Jeff Robbins is a lawyer, “unabashed Democrat,” and political columnist for the Boston Herald who was the former assistant U.S. attorney and delegate to the United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva. As a staunch defender of the First Amendment, Robbins has used his column to bring awareness to a variety of pressing issues and topics. Robbins joined Dan to discuss his new book, Notes From the Brink: A Collection of Columns about Policy at Home and Abroad.

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
It's Night's Side with Dan Ray onBoston Radio. Thank you very much.
As we head into the nine o'clockhour, will open up the phone lines
if you'd like to join the conversationwith us. Is our great friend Jeff
Robbins. Jeff has been a regularcolumnist for the Boston Herald now for a

(00:24):
very long time, longer I thinkthan I even realized. But his last
First of all, welcome back,Jeff. How are you Dan? Thank
you for having me. It isan honor, as it always is,
to be on your show. Well, you have a distinguished career, not
only in the law, which wewill talk about quickly here because that's not

(00:46):
the subject tonight. You we're theexecutive director of the Anti Defamation League here
in New England. You are aFirst Amendment expert, handled many high profile
first and ended cases. So notonly do you understand the First Amendment,
but you practice it. And younow are published every Tuesday in the Boston

(01:08):
Herald. And more importantly recently youhave had a book published, Notes from
the Break, a collection of columnsabout policy at home and abroad, and
found out today I have my copy, but I found out today that every
one of your columns from a datecertain in twenty nineteen through what sometime early
this spring have been compiled and arein the book. So tell us about

(01:34):
how the book came to be andgive us a sense of the topics that
you've covered in that remarkable five yearperiod. Well, thanks, Dan.
The first thing I should do reallyis to congratulate you, because although you've
been doing this for some time,the more I think about it, and
I've thought about it a lot,what you've done is create this civil civic

(01:55):
center, you know, twenty hoursa week, and the fact is that
you know what you do is extraordinary, but it shouldn't be extraordinary. And
that's the problem. As you andI have discussed on the show before,
there's sort of a death of acenter that you know, there are two
teams, and you're either on oneteam or you're on the other team,

(02:17):
and the country suffers as a result. So Notes from the Brink, which
is a collection of I guess allthe columns that I've written simultaneously for the
Boston Herald and for this syndicate,not a crime syndicate, the publishing syndicate
since twenty nineteen. If there's anytheme to it, it is I guess

(02:39):
that you know, the country hadbetter be more like Dan Ray and Dan
Ray's show as quickly as possible.There is a there's sort of craziness on
both sides of the political spectrum,and as long as people feel a blowledge

(03:00):
to recite the craziness of one teamor the other, the country sort of
suffers. So I bring it backto your show only because your show has
for her long time now been amodel of a place which is sort of
evaporating in the country that we needto get back to. It seems to
me as fast as possible, ifpossible. Well, you mentioned the phrase

(03:23):
you use have used is the shrinkingcenter. So we always used to think
about the country as sort of abell curve where you have three percent of
the population on one far end ofthe spectrum and another three percent of the
other. But the ninety four percent, the vast majority of people in the

(03:43):
country, whatever the political viewpoints mightbe, they were a lot closer to
the center than they are to theextremes. And I hear it on my
talk show because I get people onboth extremes. I try to encourage them,
and I try to encourage them tocall and engage in conversation, and
more often than not, they feelthey just want to make a speech,

(04:06):
a mini speech, on behalf ofwhatever their group believes in. And you,
for example, in the Herald today, ironically you talked about what's going
on. In the headline in theHerald today is journalism takes a hit and
so does America. And you talkabout Fox News and how they treat stories.

(04:31):
But you also today go after theWashington Post. You criticized the New
York Times, which used to bethe sort of the newspapers of record,
and maybe in their mind they are. But I thought there was so much
in your callum today. I didnot realize this. I'm just going to
read one sentence National Public Radios nowex editor Uri Berliner disclosed the ostentatious liberal

(05:00):
bias of the outlet National Public Radio, which is not a private company,
it's taxpayer funded, whose editorial staffconsists of eighty seven Democrats and exactly zero
Republicans. And you quote him assaying, there's an unspoken consensus about the
stories we should pursue and how theyshould be framed. Berlin observed before he

(05:21):
was disciplined from making that observation.Stuff up, Jess, you can't make
this stuff up. Is exactly right. And you know I'm a Democrat,
as you know some of your listeners. But and I know that we all
love to hate Fox News. Butfor goodness sake, we have example after

(05:41):
example after example of this ostentatious liberalbias, which you know, intellectual honesty
requires you acknowledge. You know,in the case of NPR, this guy
or in Berliner was disciplined and ultimatelyforced to resign because he wrote a piece
describing the fact that at NPR itwas one way or the highway. It

(06:02):
had to be a liberal slant.People like Barry Weiss and Nelly Bowles,
refugees from the New York Times andothers have described this kind of toxic orthodoxy
within the New York Times. Inthe newsroom. You don't hugh to a
certain liberal line, and you aredead in that newsroom. Remember the famous
story about how Senator Tom Cotton wasinvited to write an op ed piece after

(06:28):
the George Floyd killing and there wasa lot of there were demonstrations, but
there were also there was also violence, and he expressed the view, you
know, that the military should comein and quell the violence if there was
violence. Now, the irony isthat a majority of Americans agreed with him.
Forty percent of Black Americans agreed withhim. But when the Times went

(06:50):
ahead and published that column, you'llremember this, Dan, there was forget
about backlash. There was virtual warlike the Iran I Rock war, with
everything but the chemical warfare in theNew York Times newsroom. How dare we?
How dare you publish a column fromthis proto fascist? You know,
this was an opinion column, andover and over and over we all know,

(07:14):
if we're looking at it honestly,there is that liberal bias, and
it's no less problematic than is thebias on the other side. And if
people can't acknowledge that, you know, because you're so fixed to being on
one team or the other, thenwe're not proceeding in a very responsible way.
How much grief do you get?Alan Dershowitz, who we both know

(07:38):
very well and I respect immensely,and my friend Harvey Silverglade, who also
is a really a card carrying liberal. I mean, Howie Harvey considers himself
and he is a liberal in theclassic sense. But they got a lot
of grief. How much grief doyou get at being published in the Herald

(08:01):
and not the Globe. Are therefriends of yours who say, you know,
who say hey, it's great andthat kind of balances off the major
editorial position of the Herald with somecolumns from a different point of view.
You you've written many pro Biden piecesin the last six months, and I'm

(08:22):
sure it's going to be really interestinghow you treat I assume next week your
columns topic might be the fallout fromthe debate on Thursday night. I don't
know if that's what your your gameplan is. But do you get any
grief from from from folks on yourside of the political aisle for not hewing
to the to the orthodoxy that youshould be expected to abide by. Well,

(08:46):
and I haven't noticed people walk acrossthe street to avoid me yet that
I don't look as careful as Ishould. I do get grief. And
here's the point I wish I shouldstop and praise the Herald, because I
think that they grief from harold readerswho don't much appreciate columns that attack Trump
or support Biden. And I haveseen plenty of those emails comments about listen,

(09:13):
what is this this is the heraldersis the Boston Globe, and the
Herald, to its great credit,has been steadfast and taking exactly the position
that you sort of allude to,which is, no, you know,
these are opinion columns and we wantto express a reasonably diverse set of views.
And so all credit to the Herald, because I can't even imagine the

(09:33):
grief that they get from people saying, you know, who is this Robins
guy? And you know, I'vehad plenty of people take you know,
my name and that of my motherin vain with some of these columns.
Yeah, I get it, Iget it. My guest is Jeff Robbins.
If you'd like to talk to Jeffsix one seven four ten thirty six

(09:54):
one se and ask him any question. Again, Jeff is an unab ashed
liberal by by his own definition.I think that you've actually used the the
adjective if I'm not mistaken unabashed atsome point. If I'm wrong, please
correct correct. No, you're proud, you're proud, you know of of

(10:15):
your political viewpoints and and and wellshould be. But again, it's it's
just funny. We have become thistwo team either red or blue, and
we we do Hugh to the partylines a lot. So let's keep let's
keep it rolling here on night Side. My guest is Jeff Robins. I
do want to talk a little bitabout the the book itself, because it

(10:41):
is when you look at it,I guess any five year period there's a
remarkable set of events that that coversthe well. You you were writing during
twenty sixteen, but you you youwrote certainly about the twenty twenty election,
a lot. You wrote about thethe January sixth riot at Embarrassment whatever you

(11:05):
want to call it, at theCapitol. You wrote about COVID and the
response to COVID, and now you'rewriting about the twenty twenty election. And
of course you have you know,last fall what happened in Israel. You
and I have talked about that manytimes. I mean, they're there.
It just seems that every year there'ssome big events. And by the way,
I want to make note that thesyndicate that put together this compilation of

(11:31):
Jeff's columns, this is not likequote unquote the best of You see them
all and you can read them andyou can say, well, and that
one Jeff was right on the money. And maybe Jeff missed a little point
here. All the columns are there, which I think is extraordinarily forth right
and also something that I suspect you'revery proud of, without question, without
question, would take a very quickbreak back with Jeff Robbins. If you'd

(11:54):
like to join the conversation, feelfree. The lines are there six seven
thirty six one seven nine three oneten thirty or triple eight nine to nine,
ten thirty. My name is DanRay. Let's keep the conversation going
here one night Side Now back toDan Ray line from the Window World night
Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.We're talking with Jeff Robins, and if

(12:20):
you've read his column today, feelfree to comment on it. It's it's
a great column, one in aseries of great columns. How many columns,
Jeff, are in the book?You got to be talking at least
a couple hundred, maybe more.Yeah, The columns begin in twenty nineteen,
uh and they go through April ofthis year. So you're right,

(12:46):
it's about two hundred columns maybe more. When you think about it, you
got well, you know, dependingof all time, and you know,
fifty columns a year at least,that's four and a half maybe more.
You could be more. It couldbe more than that, but it's enjoyable.
Reads the perspective. We've got somephone calls. I want to get
to them, and you and Iknow each other well enough that we could

(13:07):
talk for the entire hour, butI'd prefer to bring our callers. And
we got the aforementioned Harvey Silverglade.Harvey, Welcome here, old Jeff Robins.
How are you tonight? Good?I appreciate Jeff. I read Jeff.
I read every single one of hiscolumns because I read the Heralds seven
days a week. I also readthe New York Times, the Boston Globe,

(13:28):
and the Wall Street Journal, andI read the Washington Post online.
I'm what they call a news junkie. In fact, I was a journalist
before I was a lawyer, andI can say this. I used to
reply on the New York Times newspages for all the news it fits a

(13:48):
print. I now don't believe mostof what's published as news in the New
York Times. If I want toknow what's going on in the country and
the world, I read the WallStreet Journals, with which I do anyway.
The journal tells it straight, especiallyon controversial issues like, for example,

(14:09):
Donald Trump. So what's happened isthat some of the great franchises in
the country are being wrecked by amixture between the editorial side and the news
side. And even the journal editorialside is better than the Times because you
really can get bill points of viewif that's not three or four points of

(14:33):
view reading the journal's editorial pages andopinion columns. So they know, the
Sulzburgers who kept the kept the Timesas a major national institution. The legacy
has been betrayed by both the newsand the editorial sides. It's really it's

(14:56):
a terrible tragedy. The world isfabulous, it's feisty, and they also
publish the editorial side. Get youget two sides. But this country really
needs accurate newspapers now, especially nowwhen we're in such a difficult period politically,

(15:20):
economically, culturally, internationally. Wehave threats from China, we have
threats from Russia, we have thisyou know, the world is becoming an
ever more dangerous place. News,straight news is more important than ever,
and it's harder to find. It'sreally I consider it to be one of

(15:43):
the greatest problems based in the UnitedStates. You know, there are a
lot of cities on Jeff En Harveythat only have one newspaper. At least
Boston has two major daily newspapers.New York obviously is an exception. But
outside of New York and Chicago maybePhilip, I don't know how many cities

(16:03):
are fortunate enough to have two newspapers. I don't even think Los Angeles has
two newspapers at this point. Idon't think so anymore. Yeah, which
is sad. I mean, yeah, Chicago has the Tribune in the sun
time still publishing. New York obviously, but Philadelphia maybe. But we do
know Boston and that was not theway fifty years ago. There were multiple

(16:27):
newspapers. And I mean at onepoint as a kid, I think Boston
had six or seven newspapers. Jeff, you would probably be a better historian
of that than I. You beingthe newspaper guy at this point. Well,
you know what I want to say, is that number one For anyone
who doesn't know who's listening to thisin its vast reach your show, Harvey
Silverglade is an iconic civil libertarian,an iconic lawyer, and his career sort

(16:52):
of illustrates one of the points wewere talking about, you know four.
I mean, Harvey has been unafraidto to you know, to go after
sacred cows. And I am surehe on the subject of grief, I'm
sure he's taken no shortage of itfrom his friends on the left who have
said, Harvey, what are youdoing here? What happened? You know

(17:12):
what? What? What kind ofmilkshake did you have today? But he
has been unafraid about taking the position. Yeah, I know, I'm on
the left, but I'm not goingto say stuff which is ridiculous. And
so hats off to him in thesame way, Dan Ray, hats off
to you, because you know,if you'll forgive me for the sentimentality,

(17:33):
the country desperately needs more of thatrather than more of what we seem to
have, which is basically people assumingthat they're obliged to recite nonsense just because
it's the nonsense that their team isreciting. Harvey in Cambridge. You've never
left Cambridge, Cambridge, Cambridge.Yeah, how much grief do you get

(17:56):
from your tremendous amount? You knowthat I have a list. I write
columns fairly frequently and essays, andI have a list of about five hundred
and thirty people, mostly journalists,but not only journalists, the lawyers and
accountants and physicians and people. I'mproud to be on that list. By

(18:18):
the way, You're on a list, and I send them out and I
now represent John Eastman, or oneof Trump's co defendants in Georgia and now
in Arizona. And do you knowthat about a half dozen people said that
they wanted me to take them offthe list. These are people who won't

(18:40):
even read something that they disagree withand make an assumption that because I represent
John Eastman, nothing I say issomething they want to hear. Well,
that's a level of intolerance that evenI'm not accustomed to it. By the
way, Jeff, I've ordered yourbook. I want you to know ten

(19:02):
thousand more the day. Well,let me say one other thing. I
am currently writing a biography of mylate wife, else a Doorphin, and
as soon as I'm done with that, I have an agreement with a professor
Sarah Lawrence, who's on the boardof the foundation that I'm on, that
we are going to write a followup to my nineteen ninety eight book The

(19:25):
Shadow University, The Betrayal of Libertyon America's campuses. That is, we're
going to talk about what has happenedto liberal arts campuses with respect to political
orthodoxies, which some of them arestruggling now to get out of. I
know, Harvard just adopted the ChicagoPrinciples trying to this other. Harvard no

(19:48):
longer has to have a foreign policy, which of course has variably been on
the left. But I am planningto write a book, co author a
book about where things are going onthe campuses. Well, there's been a
sea change this spring. I think. I think that we'll look back at
the spring of twenty four at leastin terms of college campuses and say,

(20:11):
hey, things changed at some schoolsaround the country. Well, that you're
right, totally right. One ofthe great things about this country is when
things go so far over to oneside that it becomes visibly ridiculous, then
there's a counter swing and things onthe campuses. I mean to have a

(20:36):
dean at Harvard CLOTHINGE. Gay insiststhat faculty tenured faculties show up for diversity
training. Diversity training. The facultymembers who have won the Nobel Prize,
they have to attend diversity training.It got to the point where everybody realized
how ridiculous was And now we havean interim president and interim provost Barbara and

(21:02):
Nanning who are saying and who areturning things around. But it took a
disaster to do that. Well,I'll tell you it's interesting. I recently
had the chancellor Vanderbilt on who's formerlywas an administry at the University of Chicago,

(21:22):
and there are some developments I thinkthat are long overdue on college campus.
Harvey, you was always a veryinteresting and provocative and I've gone about
four minutes past the nine thirty newsbreak only for you. Thank you,
my friend. As always, thanksso much for joining us and listening virtually
every night. I appreciate it somuch. Jeff final comments to Harvey,

(21:45):
my honor to talk to Jeff robsWell r right back at him and that
book boy that he's planning on writingcould not be more important given what we
have seen on campus where and maybewe can discuss it in the next segment
where we have seen some dreadful,dreadful stuff. Yeah, I hope that
Harvey's right, then it will reverse. Yeah, and if very well,

(22:06):
could be a sort of a bookendto one era which started and almost took
over colleges, and in some casesdid and maybe maybe the tide that came
in now was going out, whatevermetaphor you want to use, weather otherwise,
Harvey Silverglate, thank you, myfriend. We will talk soon,
okay, Gat, good night,good night. We'll take a quick break
here for the news, and we'regoing to come back talk well with Jeff

(22:29):
Robinson'd like to join us six one, seven, two, five, four
to ten thirty six one seven,nine three one ten thirty. I think
these are probably the most important discussionswe do on night side, and if
you have a contrary view, you'remost invited to join the conversation. And
if you want to compliment Jeff andHarvey and what they have tried to do
again, they are men of theleft, and yet they share so much

(22:56):
in common with people some on theright right, who understand the exchange of
ideas is a good thing in debate, civil conversation is a really good thing.
Feel free to let's we got wegot Jeff for a little while up
into ten o'clock. Got a switchtopics at ten o'clock. But feel free
to add your voice to this conversation. Don't be shy. Don't be afraid,

(23:18):
We'll be back on nightside. Benot afraid You're on night Side with
Dan Ray on w b Z,Boston's news radio. I guess Jeff Robbins,
Jeff has really well again. Hehasn't published his syndicator, has published
his new book, Notes from theBrink, a collection of columns of our

(23:41):
policy at home and abroad. Wewe the last year. You know,
I just need to mention what isgoing on in the Middle East. That
situation has been at the top ofmy mind since last October. I don't
understand, and I know you don'teither. The demonstrations out there would seem

(24:06):
to be almost more pro Hamas thanpro Palestinian, and I think that,
I think it's a very important issuefor people to understand better. Do you
have quick comment on that? Andthen I want to get right to phone
calls. I couldn't agree with youmore. I think that the horror of
October seventh, and then the horrorof what followed, with people who hold

(24:30):
themselves out as progressives glorifying, defending, whitewashing, supporting, embracing the genocidal
slaughter of Israelis by those who vowedto do it again. Has just shaken
America and beyond to its core,raising questions about people who purport to be

(24:55):
progressives and how they can possibly holdthemselves out to be that under these circumstances.
You and I have discussed it before. It has shaken you and I,
and it's shaken a great many people. And I think it's really shaken
this country upside down, by theway. I just want you to know.
The Associated Press three minutes ago hasprojected George Latimer, a more moderate

(25:15):
Democrat, has unseated Representative Jamiles Bowmanin the sixteenth sixteenth district in New York.
He is a member of the Squadand he's been retired by Democratic voters
in his district tonight, according tothe Associated Press, a very good thing.

(25:36):
I hope it occurs frankly in SaintLouis, where somebody who was also
in my view, adult Corey Bushis being challenged. You know, hopefully
Harvey is right. There is aswing back and people are saying, I
don't want people like this in Congress. People like this shouldn't be in Congress

(25:57):
who basically engaged in this of invectiveand hatred and vitriol. You know that's
not who we are. And sothe election now in the sixteenth in New
York is a good science, goodnews. Boman. Of course, I'm
best known for pulling a firearm inCongress. Uh. His nickname was break

(26:18):
the Glass, Jamal, break theglass Bowman. Well, you know he
he worked in middle school before hewas elected to Congress. And he's going
back and it looks like stunts likethat. Maybe that's where he belongs.
Yeah, I wonder where he'll domore damage, in Congress or in middle
school. Let me go to Tonyin Los Angeles. Tony, you were
next with my good friend Jeff Robbins. Go right ahead, Tony. Uh,

(26:41):
Jeff and Dan fantastic show. AndI'll tell you something. Us folks
in Los Angeles, and I thinkaround the world are worried about the end
of the world. What is goingto happen to this world? What is
happening to us, all of us? What is the problem? Well,
Jeff, why don't you take that? That's what I would call a macro

(27:03):
question. Yeah, I can handlethat in ten seconds. That's the fate
of the world. No, I'mkidding, you know. I think you're
right, Tony. I look that'sthe kind of question which at another time
would have seemed melodramatic. Problem is, it doesn't seem so melodramatic anymore,
given the irrationality and the hatred thatis sort of spewed from both sides,

(27:29):
that seems to sort of flood thezone. It's why I started off by
saying, and I am presumptuous andsaying so that Dan Ray is sort of
a model of what we used tohave. Think about, you know,
think about the Ronald Reagan tip O'Neilldiscussions, which are sort of famous.
They disagreed, they had drinks,they came together. That doesn't ha.

(27:52):
There aren't many spaces where that happens. Dan's happens to be one of them.
The question is how do we getthat back in fast? And yes,
and I think the answer is howwell. The answer is get it
back quick. But I don't thinkit's going to happen. But Dan Ray
is the number one talk show hostin America. Jeff and I promised him

(28:12):
I'm going to try to have himrun for president of the United States.
I'm trying this, try it before, and he won't do it deep end
of the poll. I'll stay I'llremain the president of Knights that nation.
Tony is always thanks for thank you, and thank you Jeff, and thank
you Dan so much. Good nightby you have a great night. Yeah,

(28:36):
what was it Lynda Johnson or wasit General Sherman? If nominated,
I will not run an ifellect thatI will not serve. Yeah, I'm
a simple talk show host. Ijust like talking to other people. I
don't like making decisions that are goingto I can't make decisions that when I
go to the grocery store, iswhat type of bread I want to buy
in any particular day. Yeah,this way way over my head, that's

(29:00):
for sure. I go for JeffRobbins. I think Jeff Robbins would make
a great Democratic president. That's that'sfor sure. Uh, let's take a
quick break, Jeff. We'll getback to this couple more callers at least
six one, seven, two,five, four, ten, thirty,
six, seven, nine thirty Comingback on Nightside. Now back to Dan
Ray Mine from the Window World nightSide Studios on w b Z, the

(29:23):
News Radio. My guest is JeffRobbins. New collection of his columns from
the Brink, a collection of columnsabout policy at home, and abroad.
Let me go next to Grant inBelmont. Grant, welcome to Nightside.
You are next on on with JeffRobbins. Go right ahead, Grant,
Dan, thanks so much for takingthe call, and Jeff, thanks so

(29:44):
much for your work. My name'sGrant. I'm a third generation Frankfurt School
theorist, and I've been thinking alot about the topic, even discussing polemics
and hyper vitriolic discourse. I've alwaysbelieved that, much like Orson Wells as
citizen Kane, if we have malto make perspectives, we can search for
kernels of truth and find some semblanceof cogent discourse with each other. But

(30:07):
can we really do that when peopledon't want to put in the effort to
actually amalgamate the information out there andare so intent on just consuming what they
want to hear. Probably not,But Jeff, you're going to have a
better answer than that. I hope. I'd like to think that we're not
on some kind of irrevocable downwards spiralon that score. Given the vitriol,

(30:33):
given the snark, given the teamismthat we've talked about, and then given
social media and the death of thecenter, it's hard to be optimistic.
In response to your question, theonly thing that I do hope. I
hope Harvey silver Gread is right thatthere's some kind of a kind of a

(30:55):
natural course of reversal. You'd liketo think, by way of one example,
that there'll be people who will evaluatestudents, for example, kids who
will reevaluate the way they react tothis hamas slaughter, and that there'll be
some kind of you know, reconsiderationthat will kind of moderate the craziness.

(31:18):
But you know, I'm afraid thatwe're heading into six months or five months
more of ever more intense partisanship.It'd be nice to see the fever break,
but I, like you, I'mnot quite sure how that's going to
happen. It really dampens my spiritbecause I just think to how the Federalist

(31:40):
papers were newspaper serials, and whatwould the American public even think if they
tried to read that in a newspapertoday. I don't think we'd be able
to process it, and that concernsme. Well, I think we've been
dumbed down, number one. AndI also think that we have eliminated from
basic high school curriculum the just theteaching of civics and and and how government

(32:06):
works. I don't think that alot of Americans truly understand the distinction between
a federal you know, senator andand a and a state governor. I
just think that that that that there'sabysmal ignorance about how I had a ninth
grade teacher's name was mister Daugherty.I'm sure he's long since passed on,

(32:28):
and he sort of, uh broughtit in focus for me, just the
concept of civics and getting understanding thedifference between a unicameral and a bicameral legislature
and all of that, and thenyou know, the federalism and you know,
all those those issues that that thatwe deal with pretty pretty easily.

(32:50):
I don't know that the average personeven thinks in those ways anymore. And
I think it's because though that curriculumis for the most part, is either
not taught or under your comment,Grant, I'd be interested if you agree
or see or see anything in thattheory. Well, I agree with you,
Dan, fundamentally, it's a breakdownof the educational system post the reforms

(33:12):
of the late eighteen hundreds and earlynineteen hundreds. But I worry more.
It's more about how we think aboutour own participation in the public sphere.
We don't demand cogency from people.There's no shame in the public sphere anymore.
People can simply go out there andtalk about whatever they want and there
are no consequences. And we've lostthe morality which fundamentally enabled the cogency of

(33:36):
public discourse which built this republic,and I'm worried we're not going to get
it back. I certainly agree withyou, Grant. I don't know if
you've called before. I don't recognizethe name, but if you haven't,
would you please call more often?I will Dan. This is the New
England law student who called before aboutsome other cases about this now, I

(33:58):
know, Okay, thank you,thank you very much. I appreciate it.
I appreciate it. Thank you.Thanks for dam By the way,
the New York Times is now callingthat on Jamal Bowman race, basically that
he's been unseated by George Latimer,a moderate Democrat, so some room for
hope. And it looks as ifwith two thirds of the vote in the
spread is about eleven percent, soit looks like a pretty good thumping that

(34:22):
Jamal Bowman has absorbed tonight. Okay, let me get Frank an Air in
here quickly. Frank, we're limitedon time. Quick comment if you will,
go right ahead, Frank, Right, and nobody mentions the Old Sun.
They have by far the mice mostbalanced editorials, the most reliable and

(34:44):
unbiased views anywhere. When you readthe Old Son, you're getting well informed.
You're not being propaganda he designed.Okay, that's that's a great observation.
Jeff h. Is the Lowell Sunin any way, shape or form
thinking of syndicating your columns? Imean, seems to me that Lowell Sun

(35:07):
may have at one point been alignedwith the Boston Herald. Yeah, No,
you're quite right. They did runa number of columns. I don't
know whether they've run them recently,but there it's a fine paper. They
do great work. And you knowthe problem, the difficulties in local journalism
and has had under these circumstances underpost COVID. You know, everybody knows

(35:30):
about it, and it's a terribleloss for the United States when these local
newspapers either have to cut staffing orgo under all together. So you're right
to sing the praises of the LowellsSon. They do a great job.
Frank, great point. Thank youvery much. I'm glad that you called.
Glad you mentioned it. We areflat out of time with Jeff Robbins.
Jeff, the book from the Brink, a collection of columns about policy

(35:52):
at home and abroad. It wouldbe a great primer for anyone, particularly
kids in high schoo because the columnsare very readable, and it also will
give them a quick tutorial over thelast five years and the political and the
just the major hotspots around the worldand in this country. It would it

(36:15):
would be a great graduate high schoolgraduation gift for any any high school senior,
for that matter, anyone going offto college. Jeff Robins, thank
you so much for your time tonightand for your work. Dan, Thank
you and hats off to you forwhat you do twenty hours a week.
It's remarkable. Well, this wasa fun hour as always, and we'll
have you back soon. Thanks Jeff, appreciate it for Thanks so much,

(36:37):
Jeff Robbins in the Boston Herald.Every Tuesday when we get back, we're
going to spend a good portion ofthe evening talking about the Karen Reid murder
case. Murder trial, which isnow in the hands of the jury.
I'd love to get your reaction tothis, which has now become a national
story. Back on night siding,right after the ten o'clock news, Can books