August 16, 2024 • 38 mins
Gov. Maura Healey has announced that deals are in place to save five of the Steward Health Care hospitals in Massachusetts with the Commonwealth seizing St. Elizabeth's by eminent domain to ensure a smooth transition of ownership. The closure of Carney Hospital and Nashoba Valley Medical Center remains unchanged. Dan discussed.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Days Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Condon's video.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Well, the beginning earlier this week, actually on Monday night
at nine o'clock, we have spoken about the Stewart Hospital
clothing closing. Now, we did not touch on the subject
last night. We talked about it. We spent an hour
(00:27):
on it Monday night. We spent a couple of hours
on it Tuesday night, and we spent a half an
hour with Congressman Laurie Trahan of Massachusetts the congressional district.
And so today a deal in principle has occurred, and
I'd like to try to explain it as best I can.
(00:50):
I know we've heard the news reports today, but there
were several hospitals that were owned by Stuart Healthcare and
Stewart Healthcare, and we've talked about it this week was
involved in some very interesting financial arrangements that I believe
(01:13):
will be looked at carefully in retrospect. But basically, Stewart
said that it was putting several of these facilities up
for sale. And the hospitals in question of Saint Elizabeth's
Medical Center in Brighton, that facility as well as the
(01:35):
Good Samaritan Medical Center in Brockton, the Lawrence to hospitals
up in the Merrimack Valley area, Holy Family Hospital in
mathun Holy Family Hospital in haverl also Saint Ian's Hospital
in fall River, and Morton Hospital in Taunton. These hospitals
were a part of what was called Caratas Christie which
(01:58):
the hospitals were run by the Archdiocese of Boston, and
most of them were run by the Archdiocese of Boston
up into twenty ten when they sold when the Archdiocese
needed cash in large part for the pre pedophile scandal,
and that set in motion a set of circumstances in
(02:19):
which these hospitals were purchased by this group called Stewart.
They stayed here based in Massachusetts for five years, and
then in twenty and fifteen they stopped cooperating with the
regulators and they relocated the headquarters from Boston to Dallas, Texas.
(02:41):
And of course they did not file the information that
was needed, and so it's a huge mess. It's a
huge mess. But the bottom line is that the removal
of these hospitals from the medical community in Massachusetts would
have a devastating impact when you realize we talked last
(03:03):
hour with a doctor from the Chan School of Public
Health and making the point that it's tough just to
find a doctor, never mind a hospital. So as a
consequence of everything that's gone on the last few weeks,
Sat Elizabeth's Medical Center in Brighton will continue under the
(03:28):
auspices of the Boston Medical Center BMC. Boston Medical Center,
which of course is in Boston's South End, used to
be what we call Boston City Hospital, will also take
over the Good Samaritan Medical Center in Brockton. So Boston
Medical Center will expand Lawrence General Hospital will acquire two hospitals.
(03:54):
They're both Holy Family Hospitals. Again, these are Catholic hospitals,
formerly Catholic hospitals. Holy Family Hospital which has a facility
in Mathune and one in Havel, So Lawrence General Hospital
will take over those two hospitals. Congressman Laurie Trhan was
very concerned about those hospitals in her in her district.
There's a third hospital in her district which unfortunately will
(04:17):
not will be closed unfortunately. Now, a Providence based health
system called Lifespan Health System will buy Saint Anne's Hospital
in Fall River and Morton Hospital in Taunton, so that
health system Lifespan Health System in Rhode Island will now
have a footprint here in Massachusetts. The two hospitals that
(04:41):
apparently are going to close because I've seen nothing to
suggest anything to the contrary, Cornie Hospital in Dorchester and
the Shoba Valley Medical Center in north central Massachusetts in
the town of Ayr which is in Congressman Trahan's district,
are slightly ac by August thirty first, because Stewart said
(05:02):
they had failed to attract any qualified bids. This has
caused a lot of consternation. The Healthy Administration says that
they have worked very hard to resolve this as best
they can under the circumstances. What I would like to
do is open up the calls and allow you to
(05:23):
comment on this. It is probably as good a resolution
as we could possibly hope for. But my question is
a more fundamental question, and I'd like to know if
you agree with me, and that is, how is it
that here in Massachusetts we claim to have the greatest
medical facilities in the world. I mean, you've heard that claim.
(05:46):
I've heard that claim made often by politicians, by business leaders,
community leaders, that people come from around the world to
be treated medically in Boston. How is it that we
could allow here in Massachusetts all of these hospitals, these
(06:06):
community hospitals, to fall under the control of an organization
like Stuart, which obviously has failed us. Now, whether they
have failed us intentionally, or whether they have failed us
because they bid off, whether they could chew and it
was negligent, that's ultimately going to be determined, I assume
(06:27):
by grand juries and district attorneys and who knows, maybe
even the US Attorney. But I just want to open
up the phone lines. It's been a very interesting week
to watch this evolve, and the Healey administration as of
tonight basically says, yeah, we've done a good job in
saving five of these hospitals, but at this point, actually
(06:51):
six when you think about it, six of these hospitals,
but two two have gone down the tubes or about
to go down the tubes. Here's the phone number. We
all talk about medical care. We always hear the politicians.
You remember the debate over Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act
are Romney here here in Massachusetts. Frankly, I think most
(07:12):
of us hear the debate, and I don't think we
understand the debate. In my opinion, we don't understand what
the implications are, and we just go along with it.
I think the medical system in this country is way
too confusing, way too confusing, And I'd like to hear
from you. Are you satisfied with the medical system that
(07:34):
we're dealing with here in America? We are not a
third world country, ladies and gentlemen. We need more doctors,
we need better control of funding, we need more responsibility
from our politicians. I don't think most of these politicians
understand what's going on here. Now you might say, well,
(07:58):
if they don't understand, who is going to understand. I
think the people who understand that are the corporate people
for the hospitals. Here's the number six one seven, four
ten thirty, six one seven two five four ten thirty
and six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. Are
you satisfied with the medical care you're receiving here in Massachusetts?
(08:21):
As I told you, I talked with a dear friend
of mine today who is anything but satisfied with the
medical care she's receiving. And she's a former big time nurse,
so she knows the failings of the system. But the
system is doing more than just failing her it fails.
Lots and lots of people. We have politicians who say, hey,
(08:41):
come one, come on, come on into the state. It
doesn't matter. Those are people who are now sitting in
our emergency rooms and are tying up emergency rooms. Let's
let's hear from you. Whatever your point of view is,
this is one where I think all points of view
should be on the table. Let's have at it for
the next hour or so. Coming up at ten o'clock,
I liked, I will switch topics. I'm going to raise
(09:03):
the possibility that it's that it's possible. I'm not saying
it's probable, but it's possible. Donald Trump could find himself
in jail or running for the presidency in the final
weeks of this campaign. Wouldn't that be something? And then
in the eleven o'clock hour tonight, I want to know
what is left on your bucket list for the summer
of twenty twenty four. What do you want to accomplish
(09:23):
this summer that you thought about, maybe you've already planned.
What are you going to try to get accomplished this
summer before Oh Columbus Day weekend. Back on nightside, Let's
talk hospitals. Let's talk medical care. It affects us all.
It may not affect you now if you're thirty five
and you're not seeing your doctor every year because you're
in fine health and you go to the gym and
(09:45):
all of that, but it all it catches up with everyone.
Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one,
ten thirty Coming right back on Nightside.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios on w News.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
We're here, all right, let's go to the phones here.
We have rich in Wellesley. Tough to read that screen there, Rob,
but that's okay. We got rich and Wellesley. Rich going
to start us off this hour talking about the apparent
resolution of well for some of the hospitals of this crisis,
the Stewart healthcare crisis. Go right ahead, Rich.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
By Dan Good Show.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Two things. I had an idea that obviously the legislature
is a farce and they don't know what they're doing,
and you know, if they did, this wouldn't happen. But
an idea that maybe we could get some business people
that would volunteer five or six of them and they
would look at certain programs in this state and say,
you know what, We're not going to let them buy
(10:47):
more than three because this is whether it's Enron or
all these other corporations. They come in, they take everything out,
they buy it, then they turn around and sell the
best pots off and now they're going into bankruptcy. First
of all, they ever should have owned all these hospitals.
I was actually born at Saint Elizabeth. It was a
great hospital, and all these hospitals years ago ran very well.
(11:08):
They didn't have these problems that they do. Know, and
these people that are taking them over dat crooks and
they ought to go to jail.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Well they may, I mean you as I understand that
there's some grand juries that are looking at all of this.
Certainly regulators are concerned about it. So yeah, that's that's
entirely possible. What my concern is that I don't remember
it being this confusing in terms of getting medical care.
(11:38):
I obviously am in the wrong side of fifty, but
the idea of you know, I don't know where we
went wrong in terms of medical care. I can remember
as a little boy being sick. At one point I
had scarlet fever and we had a doctor who made
house calls literally, doctor Lewis bluestein Nyde Park made a
(12:01):
house made house calls. I don't know what happened to
that model, Okay, I don't. Doctors tell me, and I'd
love to hear from you who are doctors on this
or oh who know doctors? Doctors tell me that that
they spend too much time writing reports and filling out
records every every facility that now I'm associated with, you
(12:22):
have to go into some sort of computer to find
out when your uh, when your appointments are, who you are.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
They have they have twice the staff now that they
used to. My doctor just left New Welsey's in there
twenty five years and he went to Route nine and
they have like nine people on the staff for I
think three doctors plus two people in billings just to
run that. If you go to newt Wellsey right now,
(12:51):
it'll take you around four hours in the emergency room.
And three years ago I went to Mass General with
a hot condition and I was on a gurney out
in the hall for eleven hours.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I've heard I've heard simil I've heard similar stories, absolutely
similar stories. I have at times been in the er
at Wellesley Hospital and I haven't found it to be
a particularly a pleasant experience. To be really honest with you, Now,
maybe those hospitals are just overwhelmed on any given night
that there's too many automobile accidents or whatever. Maybe maybe
(13:26):
they're not staffed up properly. If you heard during last
hour we talked with a physician or doctor from the
chan Harvard School of Public Health. My understanding is that
the organized medicine in this in this country, in the
person of the A m A, basically somehow is able
(13:47):
to prevent more medical schools from being open. Do you
know how many doctors are admitted? How many physician patients
are admitted at the University of Massachusetts Medical School every year?
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Take a guess how many are admitted.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
I'll say one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Oh, my god, that's at one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Okay, you know how much money we spend here in Massachusetts.
We have a state budget of fifty eight billion dollars.
We can't train more than one hundred and twenty doctors.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
And we've got some of the best schools in the country.
Speaker 7 (14:24):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Absolutely, and no, no, it's extraordinarily competitive. I can tell
you that that I've known young students from Massachusetts. As
a matter of fact, one student, I'm not going to
identify that student. It was a brilliant student at Boston College,
(14:47):
just top grades at Boston College. His father is a surgeon.
He could not get into the U mathematical school. He
could not This kid was eminently qualified, with a pedigree,
a family pedigree of a dad who was a surgeon.
He ended up going to a US you know, American
based hospital. But there are a lot of kids who
(15:08):
go to these hospitals that are offshore and they're learning
to become doctors, not at American facilities that they're they're
learning offshore. Why are we not training more doctors.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
We have more foreign people coming in with money that
can do things. But the real thing, dan is, just
comes down to a couple of things. The hospitals in
the last twenty years have been run by greed, just
like the insurance companies. That's why the insurance companies started
taking over the hospitals because they realized they could make
a profit twenty years ago. And I've had doctors tell
(15:41):
me this. So bottom line is it's greed and money.
And then it's as I said, they buy these places,
they take out the best parts and then they turn
around and they file bankruptcy and they walk away with
their money. But none of these guys running these places
are going to lose the millions of dollars that they've lost.
Where they you know, where they go to jail. As
far as New Welsey, I've been there twenty times in
(16:03):
the last fifteen years. And up until three years ago,
the emergency room was really good. The problem is you
can't get the nurses. All these places just have a
nursing school was Sale had one gentleman.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
General, Regis College and Regions has one.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Yeah, then they all have them for two years and
three years and four years. Former relative went to Northeast
and got her degree, you know, for four years, and
there's an RN for twenty five years. But they came
along a few years ago and they said to her,
you've got twenty five years. We'll buy you out right
now for one hundred thousand on the dot in the
(16:43):
next five days if you want to leave, why because
she's too expensive to keep and her medicals too expensive
to keep. So they hire somebody else for you know,
there's three years. The other thing I don't off you
realize it is we have a lot of traveling nurses
to come to Massachusetts because.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
A bunch of aspects of this story that we're just
scraping the surface here, and.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
I appreciate it comes down to just money. Dan, if
we could get some people, as they said, volunteering and
in real business sense that aren't politicians, that don't have
to answer to anybody. I mean, if you heard a
great man just passed. He was one of the most
fantastic men I've ever met. If you had five Jack
Bonnets to work in the system, the whole system would
(17:27):
change in five years. I mean, that's the kind of
quality that used to be around, that was helping a
lot of you know, different.
Speaker 8 (17:36):
Groups.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Well let's let's let's I'm up in the nine thirty news.
Let us continue our conversation. But I'm hoping others will
join this conversation and point out some improvements that can
be made, because well, the baby boomer generation is only
getting older. There's more care that's going to be needed.
I'm telling you, if our system here in Massachusetts is
(18:00):
a mess, and I'm beginning to think it's more of
a mess than we realize, than than what it will bad.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Dan.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
But if you go south. To go south, it'll be worse.
But I appreciate your time.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
I appreciate you taking the time to call it.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Rick, appreciate it very very much. Rich, thank you so much.
Talk to you soon. Good night. Six seven two ten thirty,
triple eight nine two nine ten thirty and six one
seven nine three one ten thirty. I will tell you
we will talk about this until ten o'clock. At ten
o'clock we will change topics, so we're not going to
go two hours on this one. Right now, I would
love to hear from as many of you who might
(18:35):
be involved in the medical community, get your reaction to
the to the angst that so many people have gone
through in the last month or so with the Steward crisis,
which apparently for some of these hospitals has been resolved tonight,
but they're two for which there is no resolution, the
Cornie Hospital and the Nashoba Valley Hospital and Air both
(18:58):
are destined to close by the end of this month.
That's a lot of hospital space here in the state
of Massachusetts. Feel free if you're a nurse, if you're
a doctor, and and you want to give us some
suggestions as what needs to be done. So we can
avoid the next crisis. That's what I'm talking about our nightside.
(19:19):
But coming back right after.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
This, you're on the night Side with Dan Ray on
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Some strong words there from the airtowle manager, and again
it's you know, I don't want to leave this at
the feet of this governor because I think this predated
this governor. In fairness to this governor, but somehow, some way,
we got to get ahead of these problems so people
don't have to deal with these problems. Let me go
(19:48):
next to Mark in Clinton, Massachusetts. Mark, you and next
on nightside. Thanks for calling.
Speaker 8 (19:52):
In Yallo, Dan, how are you Mark?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I'm doing fine. Thank you for joining us. Go right
ahead by Yeah.
Speaker 8 (20:00):
Yeah, it's got a few things. First off, I actually
talked to my doctor about this, and he said this
was maybe a month ago, and he said, he goes,
this happens not frequently, but once in a while, and
he goes, what's probably gonna happen is kind of like
what's already happening is they're gonna they're gonna either get
bought by another company or they're gonna merge with somebody,
(20:24):
and he goes, So, so from that from that perspective,
it's you know, I guess it'll get solved. But the
course there's gonna be hospitals that close.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Connie and Dorchester will apparently will close end the Shova
Valley up in Air, which is not that far from you,
by the way.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
Yeah, I know, I know exactly where that where that
place is. I think I might have been there once
or twice for appointments or whatnot.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
But from the end of August, you won't be there anymore.
Speaker 8 (20:51):
Go ahead, Mark, But uh, I think a major part,
uh part of it too is I mean, I'm not
that old, but when I when I was a kid,
when you went to the doctor, there was the secretary,
there was a nurse that did your vitals, and then
there was your doctor. And now there's like eight levels
of There's a one lady checks your temperature, one lady
(21:14):
checks your weight. Then there's a person that you talk
to in the office isn't even a nurse, he's like
a nurse's assistant. And then they got there's there's too much.
You know. The way I look at it is the
difference between a big corporation, like say a big box store,
and a small a small store is, you know, and
I've worked at both types of places, and when you
(21:35):
work at a smaller store, you know, the chain of
command is right there. Whereas you work in a big location,
there's people that don't know what's going on because hey,
that's that's not my department. I don't know what's going on,
and I have no al.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Well, it's also runs up expenses. A lot of doctors
who I've talked to. I don't say a lot, but
some doctors who I've talked to, and one doctor in
particularly who I know who is a great doctor. I
decided after the COVID situation that there was just too
much paperwork. He was a doctor in his prime. And
(22:09):
you know, we can't be losing doctors, and we cannot
with an aging and a growing population. We need more
medical students graduating here in America. We don't need doctors
com I mean, look, if they're going to bring people
in the country, I would prefer them be doctors and nurses.
I've said that all along. But given a choice between
(22:31):
an American trained doctor and a doctor trained from anywhere
else in the world, I'll take the American trained doctor,
particularly the primary care physicians.
Speaker 8 (22:40):
Yeah, I think my opinion with d is in these countries,
and I think a lot of them are coming from
India and the Philippines and maybe other Asian countries, it's cheaper.
It's you know that over in some of those countries
it's not a great place to work or live, but
education might be cheaper. Whereas over here, you want to
go to medical school, well, I don't know, it's hard
(23:02):
to get in. It's half a million dollars and this,
that and the other thing, and so we don't make
it easy to become a doctor here.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Right, But what I mean is who is who is
choking that pipeline. My understanding is the American Medical Association
does not want to see more medical schools in the
United States. And all I said, well, I just said
last hour. I happen to know this for a fact.
(23:32):
At UMass Medical School, okay, which is the state's medicals. Now,
there's a medical school at Boston University, is a medical
school at Harvard. I get all of that. But at
the State College U Mass Medical one hundred and twenty
students in the first year class. We could we should
be able to train three to four hundred students qualified
(23:53):
students right here in Massachusetts. Why is it.
Speaker 8 (23:57):
I mean, obviously, like the last caller said, the bottom line,
it's money. But I've also I talked to another doctor
just in the past and they were telling me, and
this was an older doctor who's probably been a doctor
since the nineteen seventies or whatever. And he goes, back,
when I started, you'd get you know, half an hour
(24:18):
with your patient, you'd really listen to them. And he goes, Now,
the insurance companies want everybody in and out and in
and out, and it's kind of a it's a money factory,
you know. And so I hear you, I really hear you.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
And I've experienced that. I've experienced that myself. I had
trouble finding a doctor a few years ago when my
doctors informed me reluctantly that he had decided to give
up the practice. And I called a doctor that was
relatively close by, you know, not next door, around the corner,
and I was told, well, I couldn't get an appointment
(24:56):
for an interview for three or four months, you know.
And I guess each of you would have decided whether
or not I was acceptable as a patient.
Speaker 8 (25:06):
I mean, it's getting ridiculous in the sense that I've
noticed and we've all experienced this. You go to the doctors,
you have a ten o'clock appointment, they don't see it
till eleven o'clock because they're back.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, well that's true too. But the other thing is
if you come here as a migrant and you have
a headache, go to the emergency room. It will cost
you nothing and you'll get priority treatment. That's what we're
doing here now.
Speaker 8 (25:31):
And my thing with the timing is I think it's
this is my opinion. I don't have any proof of
this is I think because doctors get paid per patient
from insurance companies, whether it be Mass Health or exactly,
and they can say, oh, well we're gonna help. I
can really see three people in our I'll pencil in
twelve and I'll make an extra thousand bucks today, So
(25:53):
what you know, And it's just not you know, it's
the way I look at how care might not be
good for business, but I think healthcare is first prior.
They should be taking care of the patient. It shouldn't
be Look, that's how much money we can.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Absolutely, Mark, I got to keep running here because they
got other calls. They got to get to a great call.
Speaker 8 (26:16):
You have a good night and maybe next trip you
go on, I'll be there with you.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
All right, Mike, love to have that happen, absolutely, Thank
you so much. Let me go next to David in
San Francisco. David next on Nightside. Maybe you got to
turn that radio down. Let's put David on hold. Let's
go to Chris and Chelmstitch. Chris, you're next on Nightside.
Go right ahead, Chris.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
I hope they am a philanthropy. Philanthropist to get the
starts at these hospitals that are closing.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Well, well, that's pie in the sky. Chris. I mean,
you know, I I don't think that there's anybody out there.
I don't think that Warren Buffett is going to spend
a billion dollars to educate doctors to put them in
Countey Hospital or the Schouba Valley Medical Center. That's realistically
(27:09):
what we have to do, in my opinion, is we
have to have more medical schools so more kids can
go through medical school and become doctors here in Massachusetts
and state in Massachusetts and stay in Massachusetts. We're a state.
We're a state. Think about it. We're a state of
(27:29):
six point eight million people and our primary medical school,
state medical school. The University of Massachusetts Medical School accepts
our one hundred and twenty students every year. So that
means at the end of three years or four years,
you're turning out one hundred and twenty interns or one
(27:51):
hundred and twenty residents for a six point seven or
six point eight million people. That doesn't work.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
I agree with that. I cannot believe.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
That it's all true. Those numbers are true. I know
the population to.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
His staff from her last week at where I worked,
and she's going to Johnson and Wales for a medical school.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Well, I thought of Johnson and Wales as a you know,
as a you know, hospitality school where you learn to
become a great chef and all of that. I didn't realize.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Yeah, that the same thing.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
We gotta have. Look, kids are going I'm telling you
right now, there are thousands of American kids who are
learning medicine, learning medicine at at what we call offshore
medical schools in places like Grada. There they are huge
(29:01):
facilities and they're turning out great doctors. But but why
are they being educated offshore? Because they don't have enough
seats for them here?
Speaker 6 (29:11):
Good question.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
A very good question.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
That's the problem, Chris. I appreciate your call and pass
my break and I gotta let you run. But thanks
for picking up your phone. O evening you two, Chris.
Thanks man. Six one seven two Okay, have a great
one six one seven, two five four to ten thirty.
Got a couple of lines open. Gonna wrap this up
at ten o'clock. We're going to go to the possibility
(29:34):
that one of the presidential candidates, and it's not Kamala Harris, uh,
one of the presidential candidates, namely namely Donald Trump, might
spend the last few weeks of this presidential campaign sitting
in jail. Uh. You think that's beyond the realm of possibility,
think again. Six one seven, two, five four to ten thirty.
(29:56):
Six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. This is
one of those topics that affect all of us. So
if you're in the medical field and you are courageous
enough to call in, I'd appreciate it. If you're someone
who wants to add to the conversation, I got some
room for you as well. Coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Now back to Dan Way Live from the Window World,
Nice Sight Studios. I'm WBZ News radio.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Back, we go to the phones. Let's tried David in
San Francisco again, David, we missed it before you're up
at back. Go ahead, David.
Speaker 7 (30:26):
Oh, thanks, it's good to be missed. You know, I
don't know if you've ever read the.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
You missed us Go ahead.
Speaker 7 (30:35):
I don't know if you've ever read the original Hippocratic Oath.
But this has been going on for I think he
was twenty four hundred years ago, and this problem no
hard that long.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
First, for those in the audience who do not know
what the Hippocratic oath, it's first, do no harm? Go ahead, David.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
Well, that's a part of it. And if you read
the original one, Richard Nixon and John Erlickman tried to
change it back.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
And you know what, David, David, do me a favorite
if you want to. It's a political Why don't you
just hang the phone up on me before we give
you the plank. Let's let's talk about what's going on
today with medical care in this country and what we
can do to turn it around.
Speaker 7 (31:17):
Dan, you ever hear a bout profiteering.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
We've talked about that. We've talked about that. David, I'm
not stupid. Go to the plank Rob, put him in
the water. If one we need the plank Rob. Thank you,
Thank you, Davey appreciated. Let me go next to Gerald
and the cap. Gerald, he's gonna he's gonna bring up
Richard Nixon and John Erlickman, who have been dead now
for about fifty years. Okay, Gerald, go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Oh this is Gerald. I'm certainly not going to bring
up any politics. But I actually practiced neurosurgery at UMass
at Saint Vincent's Hospital in for thirty years.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Thank you for thank you for doing that. Doctor right ahead.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
So I did not go to our state's medical school.
I went to Tufts Medical School. I was a jumbo.
It's great medical school. And to pay for that medical school,
I went to the United States Navy and paid four years,
paid paid my country back for four years, which was fantastic.
And there are there are there are ways to go
to medical school and and not end up owing a
(32:24):
great deal of money. And joining the military or public
health service is one great, great way.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
To do it.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
But it's very interesting listening to your your people that
called in earlier, because clearly there are layers of individually
individuals that you now see in the system. That's both clinically,
as someone said, someone takes the blood pressure, someone takes
the pulse, someone runs your list of medications and puts
them in the computer, and you wonder who's paying for
(32:51):
all these people. The other fat in the system is
the administrators. There's an incredible amount of fat in the
medical administrative system. So really the people that are actually
out there taking care of the patients are very limited.
And also in the layer is what has happened is
is you're spot on. You aren't enough doctors and for
some reason, we have come to a country now where
(33:14):
we want to have quote a lot of quote providers,
and these providers go to go to go to PA school,
they go to nursing school and become nurse practitioners. That's
very expensive for them too. So you're spot on. They
really don't have enough medical schools. Number one and number two,
they don't have enough slots in these medical schools.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
So so first of all, again, thank you for both
your military service and your service UH and urs as
a neurosurgeon. And I am always amazed the quality of
the calls UH in spite of the caller who preceded
you that we normally receive here on our program. So
I thank you for your for your for your taking
the time tonight. My question is this, I know that
(33:57):
the that the number of slots at U Mass Medical
School is one hundred and twenty. I know that I
know of a young man who end up going to
University of Saint Louis Medical School Washington Medical School in
Saint Louis, Missouri, which is a great medical school. There
(34:21):
was no room for him here in Boston, I should say,
at U Mass even though his dad was a surgeon
here in Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Well, Dan, that's very It's one of the most highly
competitive schools in the country. Yes, for a Massachusetts applicant,
because of the fact that it isn't very expensive if
you are a Massachusetts residence to go to medical school
at UMSS.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Right. But my question, I'm going to call you a
doctor even though you come up here as Gerald. My
question is why have we not anticipated the shortage of doctors.
You know better than I do that there are a
lot of really qualified potential medical students who are going
to medical schools offshore in places like Grenade or and O.
You know some of the Caribbean islands and they're coming
(35:05):
back as well trained physicians. Don't get me wrong, but
why is it that someone didn't say, hey, let's increase
the enrollment not five years ago, fifteen, twenty years ago.
Because we have an aging population, they're called the baby boomers.
This was perfectly predictable. And now you add that the
influx of migrants from other countries who are bringing medical
(35:27):
issues in their problems to the country. The medical community
is overwhelmed.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
I think, well, it certainly is in your totally one
hundred percent correct. And another question is why you know again,
people I work with a great number of pas and
physicians physicians as system that is, and also a nurse practitioners.
They might have been able to become mds and then
(35:54):
they can probably do more. I see a lot of
I love working with with mid level providers. They're wonderful. However,
it does create that that a little bit extra communication,
and I think it does create extra cost in the
system too. So so it is so there's no question
(36:17):
that that administrators have been caught making them. They made
a poor decision in the past. They aren't enough medical
schools and there aren't enough people. Enough slots and not
enough people directed to medical schools. And if you know
that with possible systems where there are significant regulations and
costs and computer costs. So these small mum and pop
(36:40):
places are closing down. So now you have the bigger,
the bigger places that you're left with that they're challenging.
I mean, if you go to UMass and you go
into the emergency room, at least there was one like
this when I retired. I mean they have they have
slots which are called you know, hallway spots where people
are on gurneys in the hallway. I think someone was
(37:02):
mentioned that earlier in the show, and those I started
in Worcester in nineteen eighty seven. And each time they
open up in emergency room, believe it or not, the
emergency rooms are busting at the seams, Saint Vincent's or
you masked and they open up the emernsy room and
they're still busting at the seams. So and so where
(37:23):
the medical regulators? Why aren't they allowing you mass more
spots more?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
My question is who is who is who is turning
a blind eye to the crisis. My understanding is that
the AMA basically approves medical school application met. When I
say medical schools to build medical schools, and they they
are choking the pipeline. Do you understand that to be true?
(37:49):
Or am I missing?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
I wish I knew you know. My practice was was
so busy because there were enough of us to go around.
I spent most of my time, most of my time
seeing patients and operating.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Uh doctor, thank you very much for taking your time
to talking again tonight. I really do appreciate it. Okay,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
So pleasure talking with you. Have a good evening.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Thank thank you much. Katie in Westfood, We've run out
of time. If you stay there, I will take you
as one call on the other side because I do
want to change topics. Rob, I'll take this other call
as well because I think this is important. We then
can get to the will Trump end up campaigning from
jail issue? Next hour back on night's out After this
Days Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Condon's video.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Well, the beginning earlier this week, actually on Monday night
at nine o'clock, we have spoken about the Stewart Hospital
clothing closing. Now, we did not touch on the subject
last night. We talked about it. We spent an hour
(00:27):
on it Monday night. We spent a couple of hours
on it Tuesday night, and we spent a half an
hour with Congressman Laurie Trahan of Massachusetts the congressional district.
And so today a deal in principle has occurred, and
I'd like to try to explain it as best I can.
(00:50):
I know we've heard the news reports today, but there
were several hospitals that were owned by Stuart Healthcare and
Stewart Healthcare, and we've talked about it this week was
involved in some very interesting financial arrangements that I believe
(01:13):
will be looked at carefully in retrospect. But basically, Stewart
said that it was putting several of these facilities up
for sale. And the hospitals in question of Saint Elizabeth's
Medical Center in Brighton, that facility as well as the
(01:35):
Good Samaritan Medical Center in Brockton, the Lawrence to hospitals
up in the Merrimack Valley area, Holy Family Hospital in
mathun Holy Family Hospital in haverl also Saint Ian's Hospital
in fall River, and Morton Hospital in Taunton. These hospitals
were a part of what was called Caratas Christie which
(01:58):
the hospitals were run by the Archdiocese of Boston, and
most of them were run by the Archdiocese of Boston
up into twenty ten when they sold when the Archdiocese
needed cash in large part for the pre pedophile scandal,
and that set in motion a set of circumstances in
(02:19):
which these hospitals were purchased by this group called Stewart.
They stayed here based in Massachusetts for five years, and
then in twenty and fifteen they stopped cooperating with the
regulators and they relocated the headquarters from Boston to Dallas, Texas.
(02:41):
And of course they did not file the information that
was needed, and so it's a huge mess. It's a
huge mess. But the bottom line is that the removal
of these hospitals from the medical community in Massachusetts would
have a devastating impact when you realize we talked last
(03:03):
hour with a doctor from the Chan School of Public
Health and making the point that it's tough just to
find a doctor, never mind a hospital. So as a
consequence of everything that's gone on the last few weeks,
Sat Elizabeth's Medical Center in Brighton will continue under the
(03:28):
auspices of the Boston Medical Center BMC. Boston Medical Center,
which of course is in Boston's South End, used to
be what we call Boston City Hospital, will also take
over the Good Samaritan Medical Center in Brockton. So Boston
Medical Center will expand Lawrence General Hospital will acquire two hospitals.
(03:54):
They're both Holy Family Hospitals. Again, these are Catholic hospitals,
formerly Catholic hospitals. Holy Family Hospital which has a facility
in Mathune and one in Havel, So Lawrence General Hospital
will take over those two hospitals. Congressman Laurie Trhan was
very concerned about those hospitals in her in her district.
There's a third hospital in her district which unfortunately will
(04:17):
not will be closed unfortunately. Now, a Providence based health
system called Lifespan Health System will buy Saint Anne's Hospital
in Fall River and Morton Hospital in Taunton, so that
health system Lifespan Health System in Rhode Island will now
have a footprint here in Massachusetts. The two hospitals that
(04:41):
apparently are going to close because I've seen nothing to
suggest anything to the contrary, Cornie Hospital in Dorchester and
the Shoba Valley Medical Center in north central Massachusetts in
the town of Ayr which is in Congressman Trahan's district,
are slightly ac by August thirty first, because Stewart said
(05:02):
they had failed to attract any qualified bids. This has
caused a lot of consternation. The Healthy Administration says that
they have worked very hard to resolve this as best
they can under the circumstances. What I would like to
do is open up the calls and allow you to
(05:23):
comment on this. It is probably as good a resolution
as we could possibly hope for. But my question is
a more fundamental question, and I'd like to know if
you agree with me, and that is, how is it
that here in Massachusetts we claim to have the greatest
medical facilities in the world. I mean, you've heard that claim.
(05:46):
I've heard that claim made often by politicians, by business leaders,
community leaders, that people come from around the world to
be treated medically in Boston. How is it that we
could allow here in Massachusetts all of these hospitals, these
(06:06):
community hospitals, to fall under the control of an organization
like Stuart, which obviously has failed us. Now, whether they
have failed us intentionally, or whether they have failed us
because they bid off, whether they could chew and it
was negligent, that's ultimately going to be determined, I assume
(06:27):
by grand juries and district attorneys and who knows, maybe
even the US Attorney. But I just want to open
up the phone lines. It's been a very interesting week
to watch this evolve, and the Healey administration as of
tonight basically says, yeah, we've done a good job in
saving five of these hospitals, but at this point, actually
(06:51):
six when you think about it, six of these hospitals,
but two two have gone down the tubes or about
to go down the tubes. Here's the phone number. We
all talk about medical care. We always hear the politicians.
You remember the debate over Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act
are Romney here here in Massachusetts. Frankly, I think most
(07:12):
of us hear the debate, and I don't think we
understand the debate. In my opinion, we don't understand what
the implications are, and we just go along with it.
I think the medical system in this country is way
too confusing, way too confusing, And I'd like to hear
from you. Are you satisfied with the medical system that
(07:34):
we're dealing with here in America? We are not a
third world country, ladies and gentlemen. We need more doctors,
we need better control of funding, we need more responsibility
from our politicians. I don't think most of these politicians
understand what's going on here. Now you might say, well,
(07:58):
if they don't understand, who is going to understand. I
think the people who understand that are the corporate people
for the hospitals. Here's the number six one seven, four
ten thirty, six one seven two five four ten thirty
and six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. Are
you satisfied with the medical care you're receiving here in Massachusetts?
(08:21):
As I told you, I talked with a dear friend
of mine today who is anything but satisfied with the
medical care she's receiving. And she's a former big time nurse,
so she knows the failings of the system. But the
system is doing more than just failing her it fails.
Lots and lots of people. We have politicians who say, hey,
(08:41):
come one, come on, come on into the state. It
doesn't matter. Those are people who are now sitting in
our emergency rooms and are tying up emergency rooms. Let's
let's hear from you. Whatever your point of view is,
this is one where I think all points of view
should be on the table. Let's have at it for
the next hour or so. Coming up at ten o'clock,
I liked, I will switch topics. I'm going to raise
(09:03):
the possibility that it's that it's possible. I'm not saying
it's probable, but it's possible. Donald Trump could find himself
in jail or running for the presidency in the final
weeks of this campaign. Wouldn't that be something? And then
in the eleven o'clock hour tonight, I want to know
what is left on your bucket list for the summer
of twenty twenty four. What do you want to accomplish
(09:23):
this summer that you thought about, maybe you've already planned.
What are you going to try to get accomplished this
summer before Oh Columbus Day weekend. Back on nightside, Let's
talk hospitals. Let's talk medical care. It affects us all.
It may not affect you now if you're thirty five
and you're not seeing your doctor every year because you're
in fine health and you go to the gym and
(09:45):
all of that, but it all it catches up with everyone.
Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one,
ten thirty Coming right back on Nightside.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios on w News.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
We're here, all right, let's go to the phones here.
We have rich in Wellesley. Tough to read that screen there, Rob,
but that's okay. We got rich and Wellesley. Rich going
to start us off this hour talking about the apparent
resolution of well for some of the hospitals of this crisis,
the Stewart healthcare crisis. Go right ahead, Rich.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
By Dan Good Show.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Two things. I had an idea that obviously the legislature
is a farce and they don't know what they're doing,
and you know, if they did, this wouldn't happen. But
an idea that maybe we could get some business people
that would volunteer five or six of them and they
would look at certain programs in this state and say,
you know what, We're not going to let them buy
(10:47):
more than three because this is whether it's Enron or
all these other corporations. They come in, they take everything out,
they buy it, then they turn around and sell the
best pots off and now they're going into bankruptcy. First
of all, they ever should have owned all these hospitals.
I was actually born at Saint Elizabeth. It was a
great hospital, and all these hospitals years ago ran very well.
(11:08):
They didn't have these problems that they do. Know, and
these people that are taking them over dat crooks and
they ought to go to jail.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Well they may, I mean you as I understand that
there's some grand juries that are looking at all of this.
Certainly regulators are concerned about it. So yeah, that's that's
entirely possible. What my concern is that I don't remember
it being this confusing in terms of getting medical care.
(11:38):
I obviously am in the wrong side of fifty, but
the idea of you know, I don't know where we
went wrong in terms of medical care. I can remember
as a little boy being sick. At one point I
had scarlet fever and we had a doctor who made
house calls literally, doctor Lewis bluestein Nyde Park made a
(12:01):
house made house calls. I don't know what happened to
that model, Okay, I don't. Doctors tell me, and I'd
love to hear from you who are doctors on this
or oh who know doctors? Doctors tell me that that
they spend too much time writing reports and filling out
records every every facility that now I'm associated with, you
(12:22):
have to go into some sort of computer to find
out when your uh, when your appointments are, who you are.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
They have they have twice the staff now that they
used to. My doctor just left New Welsey's in there
twenty five years and he went to Route nine and
they have like nine people on the staff for I
think three doctors plus two people in billings just to
run that. If you go to newt Wellsey right now,
(12:51):
it'll take you around four hours in the emergency room.
And three years ago I went to Mass General with
a hot condition and I was on a gurney out
in the hall for eleven hours.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I've heard I've heard simil I've heard similar stories, absolutely
similar stories. I have at times been in the er
at Wellesley Hospital and I haven't found it to be
a particularly a pleasant experience. To be really honest with you, Now,
maybe those hospitals are just overwhelmed on any given night
that there's too many automobile accidents or whatever. Maybe maybe
(13:26):
they're not staffed up properly. If you heard during last
hour we talked with a physician or doctor from the
chan Harvard School of Public Health. My understanding is that
the organized medicine in this in this country, in the
person of the A m A, basically somehow is able
(13:47):
to prevent more medical schools from being open. Do you
know how many doctors are admitted? How many physician patients
are admitted at the University of Massachusetts Medical School every year?
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Take a guess how many are admitted.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
I'll say one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Oh, my god, that's at one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Okay, you know how much money we spend here in Massachusetts.
We have a state budget of fifty eight billion dollars.
We can't train more than one hundred and twenty doctors.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
And we've got some of the best schools in the country.
Speaker 7 (14:24):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Absolutely, and no, no, it's extraordinarily competitive. I can tell
you that that I've known young students from Massachusetts. As
a matter of fact, one student, I'm not going to
identify that student. It was a brilliant student at Boston College,
(14:47):
just top grades at Boston College. His father is a surgeon.
He could not get into the U mathematical school. He
could not This kid was eminently qualified, with a pedigree,
a family pedigree of a dad who was a surgeon.
He ended up going to a US you know, American
based hospital. But there are a lot of kids who
(15:08):
go to these hospitals that are offshore and they're learning
to become doctors, not at American facilities that they're they're
learning offshore. Why are we not training more doctors.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
We have more foreign people coming in with money that
can do things. But the real thing, dan is, just
comes down to a couple of things. The hospitals in
the last twenty years have been run by greed, just
like the insurance companies. That's why the insurance companies started
taking over the hospitals because they realized they could make
a profit twenty years ago. And I've had doctors tell
(15:41):
me this. So bottom line is it's greed and money.
And then it's as I said, they buy these places,
they take out the best parts and then they turn
around and they file bankruptcy and they walk away with
their money. But none of these guys running these places
are going to lose the millions of dollars that they've lost.
Where they you know, where they go to jail. As
far as New Welsey, I've been there twenty times in
(16:03):
the last fifteen years. And up until three years ago,
the emergency room was really good. The problem is you
can't get the nurses. All these places just have a
nursing school was Sale had one gentleman.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
General, Regis College and Regions has one.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Yeah, then they all have them for two years and
three years and four years. Former relative went to Northeast
and got her degree, you know, for four years, and
there's an RN for twenty five years. But they came
along a few years ago and they said to her,
you've got twenty five years. We'll buy you out right
now for one hundred thousand on the dot in the
(16:43):
next five days if you want to leave, why because
she's too expensive to keep and her medicals too expensive
to keep. So they hire somebody else for you know,
there's three years. The other thing I don't off you
realize it is we have a lot of traveling nurses
to come to Massachusetts because.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
A bunch of aspects of this story that we're just
scraping the surface here, and.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
I appreciate it comes down to just money. Dan, if
we could get some people, as they said, volunteering and
in real business sense that aren't politicians, that don't have
to answer to anybody. I mean, if you heard a
great man just passed. He was one of the most
fantastic men I've ever met. If you had five Jack
Bonnets to work in the system, the whole system would
(17:27):
change in five years. I mean, that's the kind of
quality that used to be around, that was helping a
lot of you know, different.
Speaker 8 (17:36):
Groups.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Well let's let's let's I'm up in the nine thirty news.
Let us continue our conversation. But I'm hoping others will
join this conversation and point out some improvements that can
be made, because well, the baby boomer generation is only
getting older. There's more care that's going to be needed.
I'm telling you, if our system here in Massachusetts is
(18:00):
a mess, and I'm beginning to think it's more of
a mess than we realize, than than what it will bad.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Dan.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
But if you go south. To go south, it'll be worse.
But I appreciate your time.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
I appreciate you taking the time to call it.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Rick, appreciate it very very much. Rich, thank you so much.
Talk to you soon. Good night. Six seven two ten thirty,
triple eight nine two nine ten thirty and six one
seven nine three one ten thirty. I will tell you
we will talk about this until ten o'clock. At ten
o'clock we will change topics, so we're not going to
go two hours on this one. Right now, I would
love to hear from as many of you who might
(18:35):
be involved in the medical community, get your reaction to
the to the angst that so many people have gone
through in the last month or so with the Steward crisis,
which apparently for some of these hospitals has been resolved tonight,
but they're two for which there is no resolution, the
Cornie Hospital and the Nashoba Valley Hospital and Air both
(18:58):
are destined to close by the end of this month.
That's a lot of hospital space here in the state
of Massachusetts. Feel free if you're a nurse, if you're
a doctor, and and you want to give us some
suggestions as what needs to be done. So we can
avoid the next crisis. That's what I'm talking about our nightside.
(19:19):
But coming back right after.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
This, you're on the night Side with Dan Ray on
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Some strong words there from the airtowle manager, and again
it's you know, I don't want to leave this at
the feet of this governor because I think this predated
this governor. In fairness to this governor, but somehow, some way,
we got to get ahead of these problems so people
don't have to deal with these problems. Let me go
(19:48):
next to Mark in Clinton, Massachusetts. Mark, you and next
on nightside. Thanks for calling.
Speaker 8 (19:52):
In Yallo, Dan, how are you Mark?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I'm doing fine. Thank you for joining us. Go right
ahead by Yeah.
Speaker 8 (20:00):
Yeah, it's got a few things. First off, I actually
talked to my doctor about this, and he said this
was maybe a month ago, and he said, he goes,
this happens not frequently, but once in a while, and
he goes, what's probably gonna happen is kind of like
what's already happening is they're gonna they're gonna either get
bought by another company or they're gonna merge with somebody,
(20:24):
and he goes, So, so from that from that perspective,
it's you know, I guess it'll get solved. But the
course there's gonna be hospitals that close.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Connie and Dorchester will apparently will close end the Shova
Valley up in Air, which is not that far from you,
by the way.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
Yeah, I know, I know exactly where that where that
place is. I think I might have been there once
or twice for appointments or whatnot.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
But from the end of August, you won't be there anymore.
Speaker 8 (20:51):
Go ahead, Mark, But uh, I think a major part,
uh part of it too is I mean, I'm not
that old, but when I when I was a kid,
when you went to the doctor, there was the secretary,
there was a nurse that did your vitals, and then
there was your doctor. And now there's like eight levels
of There's a one lady checks your temperature, one lady
(21:14):
checks your weight. Then there's a person that you talk
to in the office isn't even a nurse, he's like
a nurse's assistant. And then they got there's there's too much.
You know. The way I look at it is the
difference between a big corporation, like say a big box store,
and a small a small store is, you know, and
I've worked at both types of places, and when you
(21:35):
work at a smaller store, you know, the chain of
command is right there. Whereas you work in a big location,
there's people that don't know what's going on because hey,
that's that's not my department. I don't know what's going on,
and I have no al.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Well, it's also runs up expenses. A lot of doctors
who I've talked to. I don't say a lot, but
some doctors who I've talked to, and one doctor in
particularly who I know who is a great doctor. I
decided after the COVID situation that there was just too
much paperwork. He was a doctor in his prime. And
(22:09):
you know, we can't be losing doctors, and we cannot
with an aging and a growing population. We need more
medical students graduating here in America. We don't need doctors
com I mean, look, if they're going to bring people
in the country, I would prefer them be doctors and nurses.
I've said that all along. But given a choice between
(22:31):
an American trained doctor and a doctor trained from anywhere
else in the world, I'll take the American trained doctor,
particularly the primary care physicians.
Speaker 8 (22:40):
Yeah, I think my opinion with d is in these countries,
and I think a lot of them are coming from
India and the Philippines and maybe other Asian countries, it's cheaper.
It's you know that over in some of those countries
it's not a great place to work or live, but
education might be cheaper. Whereas over here, you want to
go to medical school, well, I don't know, it's hard
(23:02):
to get in. It's half a million dollars and this,
that and the other thing, and so we don't make
it easy to become a doctor here.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Right, But what I mean is who is who is
choking that pipeline. My understanding is the American Medical Association
does not want to see more medical schools in the
United States. And all I said, well, I just said
last hour. I happen to know this for a fact.
(23:32):
At UMass Medical School, okay, which is the state's medicals. Now,
there's a medical school at Boston University, is a medical
school at Harvard. I get all of that. But at
the State College U Mass Medical one hundred and twenty
students in the first year class. We could we should
be able to train three to four hundred students qualified
(23:53):
students right here in Massachusetts. Why is it.
Speaker 8 (23:57):
I mean, obviously, like the last caller said, the bottom line,
it's money. But I've also I talked to another doctor
just in the past and they were telling me, and
this was an older doctor who's probably been a doctor
since the nineteen seventies or whatever. And he goes, back,
when I started, you'd get you know, half an hour
(24:18):
with your patient, you'd really listen to them. And he goes, Now,
the insurance companies want everybody in and out and in
and out, and it's kind of a it's a money factory,
you know. And so I hear you, I really hear you.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
And I've experienced that. I've experienced that myself. I had
trouble finding a doctor a few years ago when my
doctors informed me reluctantly that he had decided to give
up the practice. And I called a doctor that was
relatively close by, you know, not next door, around the corner,
and I was told, well, I couldn't get an appointment
(24:56):
for an interview for three or four months, you know.
And I guess each of you would have decided whether
or not I was acceptable as a patient.
Speaker 8 (25:06):
I mean, it's getting ridiculous in the sense that I've
noticed and we've all experienced this. You go to the doctors,
you have a ten o'clock appointment, they don't see it
till eleven o'clock because they're back.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, well that's true too. But the other thing is
if you come here as a migrant and you have
a headache, go to the emergency room. It will cost
you nothing and you'll get priority treatment. That's what we're
doing here now.
Speaker 8 (25:31):
And my thing with the timing is I think it's
this is my opinion. I don't have any proof of
this is I think because doctors get paid per patient
from insurance companies, whether it be Mass Health or exactly,
and they can say, oh, well we're gonna help. I
can really see three people in our I'll pencil in
twelve and I'll make an extra thousand bucks today, So
(25:53):
what you know, And it's just not you know, it's
the way I look at how care might not be
good for business, but I think healthcare is first prior.
They should be taking care of the patient. It shouldn't
be Look, that's how much money we can.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Absolutely, Mark, I got to keep running here because they
got other calls. They got to get to a great call.
Speaker 8 (26:16):
You have a good night and maybe next trip you
go on, I'll be there with you.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
All right, Mike, love to have that happen, absolutely, Thank
you so much. Let me go next to David in
San Francisco. David next on Nightside. Maybe you got to
turn that radio down. Let's put David on hold. Let's
go to Chris and Chelmstitch. Chris, you're next on Nightside.
Go right ahead, Chris.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
I hope they am a philanthropy. Philanthropist to get the
starts at these hospitals that are closing.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Well, well, that's pie in the sky. Chris. I mean,
you know, I I don't think that there's anybody out there.
I don't think that Warren Buffett is going to spend
a billion dollars to educate doctors to put them in
Countey Hospital or the Schouba Valley Medical Center. That's realistically
(27:09):
what we have to do, in my opinion, is we
have to have more medical schools so more kids can
go through medical school and become doctors here in Massachusetts
and state in Massachusetts and stay in Massachusetts. We're a state.
We're a state. Think about it. We're a state of
(27:29):
six point eight million people and our primary medical school,
state medical school. The University of Massachusetts Medical School accepts
our one hundred and twenty students every year. So that
means at the end of three years or four years,
you're turning out one hundred and twenty interns or one
(27:51):
hundred and twenty residents for a six point seven or
six point eight million people. That doesn't work.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
I agree with that. I cannot believe.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
That it's all true. Those numbers are true. I know
the population to.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
His staff from her last week at where I worked,
and she's going to Johnson and Wales for a medical school.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Well, I thought of Johnson and Wales as a you know,
as a you know, hospitality school where you learn to
become a great chef and all of that. I didn't realize.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Yeah, that the same thing.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
We gotta have. Look, kids are going I'm telling you
right now, there are thousands of American kids who are
learning medicine, learning medicine at at what we call offshore
medical schools in places like Grada. There they are huge
(29:01):
facilities and they're turning out great doctors. But but why
are they being educated offshore? Because they don't have enough
seats for them here?
Speaker 6 (29:11):
Good question.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
A very good question.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
That's the problem, Chris. I appreciate your call and pass
my break and I gotta let you run. But thanks
for picking up your phone. O evening you two, Chris.
Thanks man. Six one seven two Okay, have a great
one six one seven, two five four to ten thirty.
Got a couple of lines open. Gonna wrap this up
at ten o'clock. We're going to go to the possibility
(29:34):
that one of the presidential candidates, and it's not Kamala Harris, uh,
one of the presidential candidates, namely namely Donald Trump, might
spend the last few weeks of this presidential campaign sitting
in jail. Uh. You think that's beyond the realm of possibility,
think again. Six one seven, two, five four to ten thirty.
(29:56):
Six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. This is
one of those topics that affect all of us. So
if you're in the medical field and you are courageous
enough to call in, I'd appreciate it. If you're someone
who wants to add to the conversation, I got some
room for you as well. Coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Now back to Dan Way Live from the Window World,
Nice Sight Studios. I'm WBZ News radio.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Back, we go to the phones. Let's tried David in
San Francisco again, David, we missed it before you're up
at back. Go ahead, David.
Speaker 7 (30:26):
Oh, thanks, it's good to be missed. You know, I
don't know if you've ever read the.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
You missed us Go ahead.
Speaker 7 (30:35):
I don't know if you've ever read the original Hippocratic Oath.
But this has been going on for I think he
was twenty four hundred years ago, and this problem no
hard that long.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
First, for those in the audience who do not know
what the Hippocratic oath, it's first, do no harm? Go ahead, David.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
Well, that's a part of it. And if you read
the original one, Richard Nixon and John Erlickman tried to
change it back.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
And you know what, David, David, do me a favorite
if you want to. It's a political Why don't you
just hang the phone up on me before we give
you the plank. Let's let's talk about what's going on
today with medical care in this country and what we
can do to turn it around.
Speaker 7 (31:17):
Dan, you ever hear a bout profiteering.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
We've talked about that. We've talked about that. David, I'm
not stupid. Go to the plank Rob, put him in
the water. If one we need the plank Rob. Thank you,
Thank you, Davey appreciated. Let me go next to Gerald
and the cap. Gerald, he's gonna he's gonna bring up
Richard Nixon and John Erlickman, who have been dead now
for about fifty years. Okay, Gerald, go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Oh this is Gerald. I'm certainly not going to bring
up any politics. But I actually practiced neurosurgery at UMass
at Saint Vincent's Hospital in for thirty years.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Thank you for thank you for doing that. Doctor right ahead.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
So I did not go to our state's medical school.
I went to Tufts Medical School. I was a jumbo.
It's great medical school. And to pay for that medical school,
I went to the United States Navy and paid four years,
paid paid my country back for four years, which was fantastic.
And there are there are there are ways to go
to medical school and and not end up owing a
(32:24):
great deal of money. And joining the military or public
health service is one great, great way.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
To do it.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
But it's very interesting listening to your your people that
called in earlier, because clearly there are layers of individually
individuals that you now see in the system. That's both clinically,
as someone said, someone takes the blood pressure, someone takes
the pulse, someone runs your list of medications and puts
them in the computer, and you wonder who's paying for
(32:51):
all these people. The other fat in the system is
the administrators. There's an incredible amount of fat in the
medical administrative system. So really the people that are actually
out there taking care of the patients are very limited.
And also in the layer is what has happened is
is you're spot on. You aren't enough doctors and for
some reason, we have come to a country now where
(33:14):
we want to have quote a lot of quote providers,
and these providers go to go to go to PA school,
they go to nursing school and become nurse practitioners. That's
very expensive for them too. So you're spot on. They
really don't have enough medical schools. Number one and number two,
they don't have enough slots in these medical schools.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
So so first of all, again, thank you for both
your military service and your service UH and urs as
a neurosurgeon. And I am always amazed the quality of
the calls UH in spite of the caller who preceded
you that we normally receive here on our program. So
I thank you for your for your for your taking
the time tonight. My question is this, I know that
(33:57):
the that the number of slots at U Mass Medical
School is one hundred and twenty. I know that I
know of a young man who end up going to
University of Saint Louis Medical School Washington Medical School in
Saint Louis, Missouri, which is a great medical school. There
(34:21):
was no room for him here in Boston, I should say,
at U Mass even though his dad was a surgeon
here in Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Well, Dan, that's very It's one of the most highly
competitive schools in the country. Yes, for a Massachusetts applicant,
because of the fact that it isn't very expensive if
you are a Massachusetts residence to go to medical school
at UMSS.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Right. But my question, I'm going to call you a
doctor even though you come up here as Gerald. My
question is why have we not anticipated the shortage of doctors.
You know better than I do that there are a
lot of really qualified potential medical students who are going
to medical schools offshore in places like Grenade or and O.
You know some of the Caribbean islands and they're coming
(35:05):
back as well trained physicians. Don't get me wrong, but
why is it that someone didn't say, hey, let's increase
the enrollment not five years ago, fifteen, twenty years ago.
Because we have an aging population, they're called the baby boomers.
This was perfectly predictable. And now you add that the
influx of migrants from other countries who are bringing medical
(35:27):
issues in their problems to the country. The medical community
is overwhelmed.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
I think, well, it certainly is in your totally one
hundred percent correct. And another question is why you know again,
people I work with a great number of pas and
physicians physicians as system that is, and also a nurse practitioners.
They might have been able to become mds and then
(35:54):
they can probably do more. I see a lot of
I love working with with mid level providers. They're wonderful. However,
it does create that that a little bit extra communication,
and I think it does create extra cost in the
system too. So so it is so there's no question
(36:17):
that that administrators have been caught making them. They made
a poor decision in the past. They aren't enough medical
schools and there aren't enough people. Enough slots and not
enough people directed to medical schools. And if you know
that with possible systems where there are significant regulations and
costs and computer costs. So these small mum and pop
(36:40):
places are closing down. So now you have the bigger,
the bigger places that you're left with that they're challenging.
I mean, if you go to UMass and you go
into the emergency room, at least there was one like
this when I retired. I mean they have they have
slots which are called you know, hallway spots where people
are on gurneys in the hallway. I think someone was
(37:02):
mentioned that earlier in the show, and those I started
in Worcester in nineteen eighty seven. And each time they
open up in emergency room, believe it or not, the
emergency rooms are busting at the seams, Saint Vincent's or
you masked and they open up the emernsy room and
they're still busting at the seams. So and so where
(37:23):
the medical regulators? Why aren't they allowing you mass more
spots more?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
My question is who is who is who is turning
a blind eye to the crisis. My understanding is that
the AMA basically approves medical school application met. When I
say medical schools to build medical schools, and they they
are choking the pipeline. Do you understand that to be true?
(37:49):
Or am I missing?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
I wish I knew you know. My practice was was
so busy because there were enough of us to go around.
I spent most of my time, most of my time
seeing patients and operating.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Uh doctor, thank you very much for taking your time
to talking again tonight. I really do appreciate it. Okay,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
So pleasure talking with you. Have a good evening.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Thank thank you much. Katie in Westfood, We've run out
of time. If you stay there, I will take you
as one call on the other side because I do
want to change topics. Rob, I'll take this other call
as well because I think this is important. We then
can get to the will Trump end up campaigning from
jail issue? Next hour back on night's out After this
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