August 27, 2024 • 39 mins
Recently, 2.9 billion records were stolen from National Public Data, which is a Florida-based credit and criminal background check company. These records include a large amount of sensitive information including social security numbers. The hacking group USDoD has taken responsibility for the massive data breach. How does this data breach affect you? What do you need to know? University of Illinois’s Founder of the Computer Science program, Professor Sheldon Jacobson, PhD. and Director of the Institute for Computational Redistricting joined us to discuss!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's night with Dan Ray. I'm telling you Feazy Boston's
new radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, welcome back everybody. Thank you very much, Dan Watkins.
As as you may know, it's a week or so ago,
maybe a little longer. Then there was what's been characterized
as the National Public Data breach, in which I'm told
two point nine billion records were stolen from National Public Data,
(00:30):
which is a Florida based credit and criminal background check company.
The records reportedly include a large amount of sensitive information,
including social security numbers. There's a hacking group called us
DoD doesn't stay it for. The Defense Department has taken
(00:53):
responsibility for the massive data breach. So I heard about this,
and I read about it, and I couldn't find straight
answers anywhere. And today I asked our producer Marita to
see what she could do, and she introduced me to
Professor Sheldon Jacobson, who's PhD and director of the Institute
(01:16):
for Computational Redistricting. He is also the founder of the
computer science program at the University of Illinois. So, Professor
Sheldon Jacobson, I'm hoping you're going to have some answers
as to what happened and how we can prevent it
from happening anything worse happening to us. How are you tonight,
(01:39):
good evening, sir.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well, it's a pleasure to be with you. Thank you
for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, thanks very much. First of all, what is the
National Public Data Is that the organization that was hacked.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yeah, this is an organization that basically provide data for
people who want background checks on people. Do is They
scrape data from the Internet and other sources. Some of
it is publicly available, some of it is not, and
they have that in a repository which they then sell
it for people who want to do a background check.
(02:13):
So if someone is going to apply for employment and
you want to get some background information on them, you
pay a fee and you're able to get information. Or
if someone's just curious about their neighbor and they want
to get some background information, they can pay the fee
and also get information. So there's so much data out
there on the Internet, in our digital economy, in a
(02:34):
technical society that in essence, so much is known about
so much of us. Some people just want to know,
some people need to know, but some people just want
to know. And an organization like the National Public Data
Company isn't an entity that sells this information and makes
it available.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Okay, Now what troubles me most is that I always
thought call me naive, I'll be happy to respond to
that appellation. I always thought that your social Security number
was something that you were supposed to protect with your life,
(03:12):
that even when people asked you for the last four
digits of your so scurity dumban, you should be careful
who you're talking to. And I also thought that that
was our identification number, almost like our fingerprints. That was
what I've always thought it was. And my understanding is
that amongst these two point billion pieces of information, they
(03:33):
may have your social Security number or my social Security number.
What's the likelihood of that or can you even begin
to estimate that likelihood?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, a better way to frame that question is, what's
the likelihood that someone out there has your social Security
number that you did not give permission to have? And
the probability the likelihood is extremely high. I always tell
people that don't assume that your information is being protected.
Assume the worst, which is that all of your information,
(04:05):
your social Security number, your address, your phone numbers, everything
about you, your family members is a known entity. Because
this is valuable information for bad actors who want to
do something which is take your money in an instance, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
That I understand. But for example, when you sign up
for the draft or when you're conscripted in the military,
they do want your SOB scurity number, but you're giving
that to someone who represents the Department of Defense. And
you assume when you file your income tax returns you
have to include your sole security number when you pay
your estimated taxes every quarter. There's a lot of interaction
(04:45):
with government agencies. When when I'm opening a bank account,
I think I have to provide my SO security number,
But I'm not giving my SO screuty number to someone
who calls up and says to me, Hi, I'm the
prince from Nigeria and I want to put money in
your bank, But can you give them my SO scurity umber.
(05:06):
I always assume that anyone who who would ask me
and I'm going to be naive now, anyone who would
ask me by my SO security number, I ARAUS Defense
Department on whomever would guard that? Or am I just horrible?
You naive? Professor?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Well, people will give their Social Security number if it's requested,
and they often even don't think about it. So if
you apply for a department store credit card, you will
have to give your Social Security number. You are entrusting
them to maintain the confidential of it. The challenge is
that we've had so many security breaches over the last
(05:47):
several years. Just think back to twenty seventeen when Equifax
had their security breach that involved over one half of
all adults in the United States had their personal information
basically be breached. That information is valuable to bad actors.
In fact, for this particular security breach, they found that
(06:08):
someone is trying to sell these records for over three
million dollars. Three million dollars, and someone is going to
buy it because they will have access to all this
personal information that ultimately can then be resold, redistributed, and
ultimately an attempt to get financial gain. Sounds our information
(06:29):
is all out there.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, sounds to be professor. Let that if they are
going to provide someone with two point nine billion pieces
of information three million dollars almost sounds like chump change.
That there will be a bunch of people are going
to step forward and say, hey, I'll give you four
millions for that. I mean, so this now is going
to be out there, which of course leads us to
(06:50):
the question, what should all of us do. You mentioned
prior breaches of security. Can we assume that somehow we're
I mean, I can't change my Social Security number. I
know I can't do that. What defense mechanism do I
(07:13):
have left in my arsenal of defense mechanisms to utilize?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Well, there's a tremendous number of things you can do.
The first thing is you want to freeze your credit,
which means that if someone has your social Security number
and they attempt to get a credit card, take out
a loan, purchase a car, do anything like that, they're
going to require a background check, and that background check
will involve knowing their social Security number. If someone has it,
(07:41):
that's wonderful. They can say, oh, yes, I am you
know Mary Smith or John Jackson, and here's my social
Security number, and then they put it through. But if
you have a security freeze in place, the organization who
wants to give you credit will say, I'm sorry, you
have a freeze. You're going to have to unfreeze it,
at which point the person, oh I forgot I'll be
(08:01):
back and they never see them again.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Okay, So how does one for my listeners? How and
my listeners rings the gamut in terms of age and experience?
How do they freeze their credit? And what are the
implications they're off?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Well, it's very simple, but it's not necessarily easy. It's
simple because if you go to the three agencies that
basically oversee credit in this country, which is Experience, Equifax,
and TransUnion, you can set up an account online no cost,
or you can call them and say I want to
freeze my credit. They'll know exactly what that means, and
(08:37):
then they will require some paperwork or some information about you,
but ultimately it will get frozen. And once it's frozen,
you have locked down the ability for these bad actors
to use the information they have about you to in essence,
takeout loans, buy cars, you know, set up a cell
(08:59):
phone service, whatever they're trying to do. Many any many
financial interactions will require Social Security number. The fact that
they have it isn't the problem. It's the question of
whether they can use it to gain financially and you
can stop that with a credit freeze.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Okay, and what if? What then? The implications?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
What's the downside? You freeze your credit? You can still
use your credit card, you just can't go. You could
cure a new credit.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Card exactly, and you can still use your credit card.
But if you want it to for example, take out
a loan, a mortgage, you know, buy a car with
an auto loan, you're going to have to temporarily unfreeze
it to allow the legitimate agency who wants to give
you credit to check your credit. But once you do that,
you just refreeze it right away. So literally this can
(09:50):
almost beat that in five or ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
How difficult is it to unfreeze it? So in other words,
what do you have to do to prove to TransUnion
or Equifax or Experience that you know and again, you
do it with one, you don't have to do with
all three. I assume if you freeze it with one,
you also can unfreeze it with all three.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, well you have to freeze them all individually, and
you'd have to unfreeze them individually. But most entities who
want to give you credit, they'll say we're going to
use TransUnion or Ecofax or Experience. They won't use all
of the typically and they'll tell you which one. The
easiest way is to set up an account with these
and then you can go in and to freeze or unfreeze,
you're literally pressing a button. You're clicking on one little
(10:31):
icon and it's done. It's so simple, okay, and it's
amazing that people don't do that because it is the
single most important thing to do, given the fact that
your information is already out there.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Okay, So assuming the information is out there, you have
to go to each of these credit agencies, is that
the correct term? Or no credit monitoring suce that's.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Right, Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Three companies, that's.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Right, TransUnion, Experience, Equifax, So there's those. If you freeze
it with each of those big three, you have provided
a layer of protection that is that's important, okay. And
then in order to unfreeze it, you you can move,
you can do it. Okay, let me do this. I'd
like to pause, if you would. I got to take
a commercial break. I also would like to invite some
(11:24):
of my listeners to join us and ask you questions,
because frankly, I know a little bit about this, but
I'm smart enough to know that I don't know all
that that my listeners know, and so there may be
some questions that my listeners have. Would you be willing
to take a few questions.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Be happy to help?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Excellent, excellent. My guest is doctor Sheldon Jacobson. He's with
the University of Illinois. He's the founder of the computer
science program there. He's also the director of the Institute
for Computational Redistricting. We'll explain well, I'll get an explanation
of what that is. If you would like to ask
(12:02):
doctor Jacobson a question, offer a thought, I'd love to
have you joined the conversation. This is one of those
programs that I think is really important. We can talk politics,
we can talk you know, Trump, Harris, we can talk
all of that sort of stuff any night, but this
is we've found a great resource. Uh. He's very forthcoming
(12:24):
and very clear. Give us a call six one seven
four ten thirty or six one seven nine ten thirty
back on knights I would Professor Sheldon Jacobson at the
University of Illinois. Right after a few messages.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nights Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
My guest is Professor Sheldon Jacobson. Uh, And as I expected,
we have a bunch of phone calls. So without any
further ado, is there anything that I have not asked
you that you think is narrative for you to share
with my audience before we go to phone calls. I
(13:05):
love the idea of freezing the credit account, and I
have seen that mentioned earlier in other venues. But you
explained and have convinced me that it one should be done,
and that it can be done simply, and it can
be undone simply. Anything else that people can do on
a short term basis.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
The thing that you can also purchase identification theft protection,
which would be the next layer, which in fact they'll
do the freezing and unfreezing for you if it's because
you pay for that service. That's another thing which makes
it a little easier for people. Does cost money obviously
to do this well, just freezing does not cost anything.
So there's different layers of protections you can put in,
(13:46):
and you have to ask yourself how much layers do
I want to pay forward and provide? Because think of
it this way. If you're in a group of people
and you're being attacked by a bear, you don't have
to run fast than the bear. You just have to
can't be the slowest person running.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yes, I was about to say that, Yes.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
You just want to stay ahead of people so that
when they go through many, many social security numbers, if
you've provided some headwinds to them accessing cure credit, then
they're going to go to someone else. And that's the
way it works. Keep that in mind. You're not going
to be able to be completely risk free, but you
want to be more protected than everybody else. And freezing
(14:32):
is a really an important thing.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Okay, who are the companies because I think I hear
them advertised that we have a million dollars worth of protection.
Is there a company that you feel is the gold
standard in terms of again this unlimited threat protection.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Well, I prefer not to mention the name of a company.
What I would suggest people to is simply Google IDs
have protection. And there are so many surveys out there,
and they're all a little different, but they're providing some
moller services. I'll let each person to choose. But I
don't want to get into an endorsement in this particular case.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
No, No, I understand that, and I respect that, I
really do, you know, but I I also I know
that there are probably some companies out there that might
promise you the world, but in the event of a problem,
you know what, what what can you do to make
sure that they beg back back up their problem? You
know their promise? I meaning you know you you hire
(15:28):
a lawyer to uh TO to do some estate planning
for you. If he doesn't do the estate planning, then
you don't pay the lawyer. That's I just but but
I'm not going to pressure pressure you on that, that's
for sure. So other other than freezing the accounts on
your own Google I D threat protection and do your
own research. But find a company who you would pay.
(15:50):
Is that a one time only fee or is that
sort of you pay so much every year and if
you don't pay, the threat protection vanishes? Does these type
actually do it differ? Linked?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
It's a service you pay on an ongoing basis, much
like your cell phone service and others. You just pay
it regularly, either in a yearly or on a monthly basis,
and it provides the kind of prediction that you know,
it's peace of mind, what you want to pay for
and what you're comfortable with.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, it's like having an alarm system on your home.
I get it. It's it's peace of mind. So let
me ask you this question. What is a reasonable amount
of money? Do they charge you based upon what your
assets are? Or does every person who would who would
present themselves as a potential customer they treated the same way? Uh?
(16:38):
You know, obviously life insurance, the the fee for life
insurance is correlated to your age. And maybe if you
have to take a medical exam, what is the what's
the standard? If you know and I get them I
learned in law school. The only dumb question of the
questions you don't you're afraid to answer to ask so
uh is do you have any idea what the standard
(17:00):
sort of range of fees would be on an annual
basis for something like that thread protection?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It depends on the level of protection that you want.
There's minimal amounts that you can have, which is a
more modest monthly fee or an annual fee, and then
they have, you know, higher levels of protection which also
increase the coverage. So it's not so much based on
your assets, it's what you want to purchase in terms
of protection.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Okay, So so almost as if you were going to,
you know, get protection for a home that's worth of
two hundred or three hundred thousand dollars worth. It is
worth a home that's worth two or three million dollars. Okay, perfectly,
perfectly clear examples which I love. My guest is Professor
Sheldon Jacobson. We're right at the bottom of the hour,
(17:46):
virtually within a minute, and I don't want to short
change anyone, so I will tell you the only lines
that the only line open right now is six one seven,
nine three, one ten thirty. If you're dialing two five,
four to ten thirty, the lines are full, try six
one seven, nine three one ten thirty. Hoping doctor Jacobson
will be kind enough to stay with us for another
half hour and take as many questions as possible. We
(18:06):
will be back with doctor Sheldon Jacobson, who is a
fabulous guest, and I very really describe my guest as fabulous,
Doctor Jacobson. Your answers are thorough, comprehensive and clear, which
is exactly you must make a terrific expert witness in
a quote of law. Because you really are very, very good,
and I just want us to thank you for your
(18:28):
time tonight. This You're exactly the type of guests I've
been looking for, and my producer has been seeking for
about a week. So she did a great job finding you.
I thank you for your time tonight. Stay right there.
We got a news break. It's about three or four minutes.
If you need to get up and get a glass
of water. Now is the time back with doctor Sheldon
Jacobson and the University of Illinois. Fighting a Line A
(18:49):
Line Knight. I believe is the name of the correct
is that you're a fighting a line night? Correct Or
have they changed that? All right? Just as look, please
don't change that name. I love that name. Improve me
back on night Side right after this with your phone calls.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
It's night Side with Dan Ray on w BSS, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
That I did have pizza and ice cream. I just
felt like pizza and ice cream. Not gonna eat pizza
and ice cream every night, but I don't waking when
any you could splurge and I felt like it tonight.
Let's go to the call for the phones, my guest,
uh see, I had ice cream on my mind. I
was thinking of ice cream cones. Professor Sheldon Jacobson at
the University of Illinois. Let's go to Bill and Danvers, Massachusetts. Hey, Bill,
(19:32):
welcome back, how are you sir.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Good good, yes, doctor that I am experient and you
can go on. Of course I wanted there's your credit,
you know, and you can go on and get all
three credit reports.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Maybe if I'm going for col Loo, and sometimes I'll
do it, I'll look at my overall, but that auction
to lock it is on there.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Also.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
I have love luck. If I were to fill an
application out right now for a credit card, probably as
soon as I hit click that button, probably within one
to two minutes, I would get a notification, a text
message and email, and if I didn't answer it was
me or not, then the phone rings. They also alert
(20:14):
you if you find anything on the doc web. They
monitor that because some stuff you said.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I know that doctor Jacobson is not here to endorse
any company. You said that you have LifeLock. I think
you said yeah, yeah, and they advertised that heavily. Are
you Are you happy with them?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Bill? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
I mean I want to say, it's been years I've
had them, and but they you know, they let you know.
Also they had a thing because I went on one
day and you know, the look and I don't know
what the doctor field. They have this thing called the
privacy scan. I don't know if you know it was
it wasn't that much more a month. And you know,
if you go punch in your name on some of
(20:54):
the side, you know, if you kind of see who
you're related to this, I mean, there's a lot of
information on the computer. You spend ten minutes look around,
and he roughly knew somebody's age and stuff and where
they live. You could actually find out. So this privacy
scan kind of goes on and it tells you what
it's complete. They notified to pull stuff down and they
scan every month. So in the beginning there was like
two hundred and something sits. I mean now it's like
(21:15):
five sticks, eight sites. They'll tell you if they found,
what they removed and everything else. So I don't know
how accurate it is, but I assume anything that kind
of keeps stuff under control and maybe keeps less information
out there for eight ninety nine a month on top
of whatever, probably isn't the worst thing. So I don't
know if the doctor knows anything about that.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Say let's say he does. Doctor Jacobson. Bill is a again,
he's with one of these agencies, and I guess there
was an add on which you would expect. It's like
go to a restaurant. You want an appetizer with that steak,
how about the nice dessert at the end of the meal.
I mean you can order what you know what I
guess what you want? Does any of that do you do?
(21:57):
You think what Bill is saying is accurate.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Well, it really comes down to a comfort level for
the individual. If you want more and more protection, you
will pay more and more price. Remember, these companies do
a very valuable service that you pay for to protect you,
but they also want to stay in business and make money,
so they will offer as many things that is available.
Once again, if it's a question of how many layers
(22:24):
you want to add in and will they lead to
you having a compromise in your finances, because I think
that's what most of us are interested in. We don't
want someone taking money out of our bank account. We
don't want money at people taking a credit card out
in our name and compromising our financial life.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
And there's a cost us. There's a cost associated with everything.
It's no company is going to do this for free.
So people, as you say, doctor Jacobson, have to check
out the companies that are competitors. I will tell you
that when you go it, and I did during the
I went to the idea of googling ID threat protection. Oh.
(23:05):
At the top of the Google are are ads that
are sponsored. You can look at those, but you may
want to go past the sponsored ads to get to
the to some of the more legitimate companies. Not that
the ads that the ads are not legitimate companies, but
just recognize you're looking at the first choice that you're
going to come across is probably an ad that is
(23:25):
that has been paid for. Bill. Appreciate you, Carl, Thank
you forgetting it's calling. I got a whole bunch of calls.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Ye oh yeah, I have a good night guys.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Are you too, my friend? Let me go to John
and Boston. John next on nice side with doctor Sheldon Jacobson.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Go right ahead, thanks man.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
Thanks doctor Jickson. It's not good to email from TransUnion said,
I got a doc web lord. I've never been on
the doc web, so I was. I try to call
TransUnion a number of times and I got disconnected. I
couldn't get through. And I'm not because I wasn't even
sure if email is legit from Transunions, because I've getting
(24:00):
I've gotten other banks that they were basically they look
identical also, but they weren't from the comedy. So I'm
not sure at this point exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
What was the John, what what was the the the
email that was? Where did that email come from? Did
it say TransUnion dot com?
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Did it say it does say TransUnion, but what else
does it say? It's a TransUnion? Uh, let's see at
E M t UC dot TransUnion dot console that that
looms to be.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
That looks to me like a scam. Doctor.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Well, you've got to be extremely careful because there's so
much phishing out there that they will try and attract
you to click on an email. If you get an
unsolicited email, assume the worst. If you want to speak
to TransUnion, Experience or Equifax, go to their websites directly
and make sure it's a legitimate one. Look at the
(24:54):
address very carefully, or else you may end up getting
into a fake website and they will pull your information.
So do not assume that an unsolicited email is legitimate
because they're being sent out by the Penns hundreds of
millions to everyone hoping that a few people will click
on them.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
John, just think you just read to me what the
return address was it said TransUnion and then.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
What uh so, let's see it says TransUnion at em
deaf tuci dot TransUnion dot com.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Absolutely fake, Absolutely in my opinion, John, I don't know
if doctor Jacobson, Professor Jacobson the fact if it's going
to be TransUnion dot tom and should say TransUnion dot com.
I get those all the time, all the time. I'm
a fairly well known radio personality, and I just if
I see anything, even the ones that I see that
(25:54):
I think are legitimate, I will call. I will call
or I will send an email to them on an
email address that I know is accurate. Simple as that.
I would not touch that. I would not respond to that.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
John, that I I definitely didn't death I wanted to.
I just got the other day. I didn't have fun
to foll up when I heard your radio program. That's
way well, John, you.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Know, I think I know you. You know me. I'm
not going to give you bad advice intentionally. If they
really want to get to you, they'll they'll give you
a phone call or they'll send you a letter like
you never get anything for the government. John got to run.
Thank you much. Thank Thank you Mary and Medford. Mary
next one nights.
Speaker 7 (26:32):
I go right ahead, Hi Dan, thanks for taking my call,
and hello Professor Jacobson. I experienced something like this a
couple of weeks ago. I have a Discover card and
Discover and one of the features of Discover card is
they checked to see that nobody's bothered with your social
(26:56):
Security number or anything. And they told me and they
showed me that I was on the dark Web, and
they showed me the last four numbers of my social
Security card and they gave me a number to Discover with.
This was all in an email. So instead of calling
(27:17):
that number, I called the number I usually called Discover
on and I asked the person you know, to direct
me to the fraud group and all that, and they
directed me to They told me my name came up
on the dark web and to go to the three
(27:38):
credit bureaus you know, Experience and the other two the
TransUnion and block my credit and which I did. But
one of my sons happened to come in when I
was doing it, and he says, it's very important that
you write down your password and put it someplace safe,
(28:00):
because if you want to unblock it, you're going to
have a problem. If you don't have the correct password.
Speaker 5 (28:06):
Perfect.
Speaker 7 (28:06):
I just wanted to pass that on.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
All right, Mary, good advice. Thank you very much.
Speaker 7 (28:11):
You're welcome.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Let me get one more in here before the break.
Let me go to Melissa in the great state of Oregon.
Melissa and it's Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Correct, that's correct me.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Welcome back, Professor Sheldon Jacobson. Go ahead, Melissa.
Speaker 8 (28:29):
Hi. I have my question for your guests. Is this
So the company that got hacked is the company we
go through for background checks? How can this company be trusted?
Speaker 9 (28:42):
And the reason I asked that question is is I
work with data and I have gone through several background
checks so for NSA data and other types of data,
and they're quite nitpicky, and now that I've heard they've
gotten haacked, I'm wondering if I can trust their information
(29:02):
that they're providing about me.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Well, that's a great question. And the fact is that
National Public Data scrapes their data, sometimes without your permission.
Sometimes it's just public data, and not all of it
is correct. So we exactly just assume that everything that
they have out there is correct. In fact, they may
have exposed some information about you personally, which isn't even accurate,
(29:29):
and it has absolutely no value to the bad actors
who are going to buy it and try and use it.
That's why the metaphor of staying ahead of the bear.
You know, you don't thrun faster, and the bear just
faster than everybody, at least a few other people. You
don't want to be the slowest to stay idea freezing
your credit and putting fraud alerts on. Doing all these
(29:49):
simple little things will make it a little more difficult
for someone to use your information. That they'll have it,
but if they don't use it, then it has no
value to them and it won't hurt you.
Speaker 9 (30:02):
So many corporate one hundred, two hundred, three hundred and
four out of five hundred organizations though, are doing major
background checks on people for them.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
To get jobs.
Speaker 9 (30:13):
Because of the use of data in the workplace, this
can prevent someone from getting a job within accurate data,
and so we're now putting the employee at risk, the
potential employee. So it feels like there's good, there's a
gap here. It feels like you know, not only is
(30:33):
the individual at risk for having their their personal information
out there, but that they're possibly at risk for not
getting a job or am I totally conspiracy theorying this.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Well, a smart employer will understand exactly what you said,
and what they will do is they will go to
multiple sources to check if there's a consistency, then they
will come to the potential employee and talk to them
about it. So remember, data is valuable, but data doesn't
give the whole picture. Ultimately, it's human interactions that determine decisions.
(31:11):
The data informs it, but it's about people. Let's never
forget that.
Speaker 9 (31:16):
Yeah, that's a great point. But they unfortunately they outsource
it to these companies, right, and it's just kind of
a paper, but it's really a great topic. I'm so
glad you covered this.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Dand Melissa, my pleasure are always great to.
Speaker 9 (31:28):
Hear your voice you too, behave bye bye.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
How are you Cincinnati? Red's doing?
Speaker 9 (31:34):
Oh I've lost seven in a row, but that is
out of the last ten. But that's okay, there's always
next year. Take care.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
We're going to be saying the same thing in Boston
unfortunately as well. Thanks go Red, sox H take a
very quick break. My guest is Professor Sheldon Jacobson, University
of Illinois. Steve Joel and Laurie. We will get you
on before we have to say good night to doctor Jacobson.
And doctor Jacobson, thank you so much again for being
(32:01):
here and sticking with us until eleven o'clock in the east.
We'll be back as as I told you, we have
listeners all over the country. We'll be back on night
Side right after this now.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Bent to Dan ray Mine from the Window World night
Side STOs on w b Z News Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Okay, we're not going to get everyone in. We're going
to continue our conversation of this after the eleven but
let me go next to Joel in Natick. Joel, you're
next on Nightside with Professor Sheldon Jacobson. Go ahead, Joel.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yes, So my question is does he know anything about
the website pentesta dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Okay, let's see if you heard that, how do you
spell that website.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Pen testa dot com. Pen test is one word?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Okay, it sounds like it's p E n T E
s T a pen testa e pen tester Okay, like
a fountain pen being tested pen tester. Doctor, are you familiar?
First of all, Joel, what type of tell us what
website is? Give us a hint.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Well, if it's I'm kind of a company that said
you have a break, recommended going to this website, and
by putting in your email, it tells you what puts
on infanation is out there, what companies have the infanation
in you user name, your password, and your IP addresses?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
WHOA Have you ever heard of such a website? Doctor professor?
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Well, I know that websites as such exist, and they
certainly provide some useful information. But once again, there's a
couple of things to be careful of. One is people
can put up stake websites to have you put in
that information so they can access it. So you have
to be very very careful this particular one. I am
not fam you're with. That doesn't mean it's not legitimate.
(33:48):
It's just that I'm not aware of it. But there's
many sites like this. But once again, the thing to
remember is that all of our information is already out there.
It's already out there, which means that let's set up
some layers around us to protect us. So as a
result of that, Pentester, there's also a company called Atlas Privacy.
(34:10):
They will you can put in information and I can
say with probability ninety ninety nine that your information will
come up saying yes, yes, yes, you have been compromised.
Because with such a large data breach, everybody's been compromised.
But they've been compromised from Equifax in twenty seventeen and
so many others. We'd like to believe in an ideal
(34:33):
world that we're safe and protected, but we have to
take some ownership of the fact that our data's out there.
Let's do what we can. And that's why freezing is
so critical. Every single person listening, you should be creating
accounts on Equifax, Experience and TransUnion tonight and freezing your
credit You might as well. And the sooner you do it,
(34:54):
the safer you will be. In particular, the safer your
finances are going to be.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Real quick follow up question, Professor Jacobson. By freezing those accounts,
obviously you trust these accounts completely, Equifax, TransUnion and Experience.
They could they recommend to you or to anyone if
let's say this account that Joel's talking about pentester dot
(35:21):
com is legitimate, or would they stay away from advising
anyone on those type of accounts.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Well, based on the information that I know, it is
a legitimate company. It's Pentester Cybersecurity and they have a
website and you can actually check your information and when
you put it in you're going to find out, oh gee,
I've been compromised. So they do exist. But once again,
knowing that you've been compromised is not the problem. It's
what protections you can put in place so that the
(35:51):
information about you does not get used to hurt you financially.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
That's great, Jill, thank you very much. That's a great question.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
And one more. Thank do me.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
You got to be really quick on this one because I.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I know stoneum Bank called me and said someone tried
to open the account your social security number and SOONEUM Bank
wouldn't open it up because apparently had the wrong address.
And then he said, oh, by the way, this is
the collect address was supposed to have. But they wanted
to open their account but they had my solid security number.
That's just a state story.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Boy.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
You okay, appreciate it. Thanks, Joe, appreciate it very much.
Let me go to Laurie and Clinton. Laurie, you were
next on nights side. I'm going to try to get you,
and if you can't get your question answered, I'll hold
your wall over. Go ahead, Laurie, Hi, I.
Speaker 10 (36:34):
Just have a little story about one of the one
of the three major ones. I'm not sure which one
it was, but I was trying to buy a bed
at Bob's Discount Furniture, and I was trying to apply
for credit to get the you know, the free yearly
free payments for a year, and I was able to
go in. He don't now. There was a new guy
(36:55):
that I was dealing with. He said, oh, go in,
and I told him that all make accounts were frozen.
I've they've been frozen for decades and I've never had
to use I used it once about twenty years ago,
and I couldn't get in. So I just I just
never applied for any credit anymore. And then so I'm
applying for a credit that about two weeks ago, and
(37:17):
he told me to go in and unprease one of them.
I unfroze that one and I still got rejected. So
I went in and I froze, unfroze the second one.
I still got rejected. And then but then then I
was able to get them both unfrozen, and it was temporary.
It was very nice because I could do it temporarily,
so I just unfrozen it for like three days. I
date three days from then, and and then I still
(37:41):
got rejected. So then I said, I'll have to do
the third one. The third one I think was transient,
but I'm not sure. It required a pass code, and
the other way I get the pass code, and I
don't remember.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
My pass code.
Speaker 10 (37:53):
I remember getting it, but I don't remember where it
is at the time, so I couldn't, you know, I
wanted to do it just then, and.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
So I am.
Speaker 10 (38:02):
They said I could get a pass over, it would
take three to five days to come in the mail.
I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
I just paid.
Speaker 10 (38:07):
I just played with my credit card.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Well, it's a wonderful story, Laurie, appreciate it very much.
It shows us about how carefully you have to be
when you when you create a pass code. We've all,
we've all done all been there. Thanks Laurie, love the story.
Thank you very much, Professor Jacobson. You have been a
fabulous guest. I'd love to be able to get you
back at some point because more people are hanging on
the line. I'm going to deal with them next hour,
(38:31):
but I'd love to get you back if that would
be possible. I really appreciated your your time tonight, your clarity,
and your precision. It was excellent.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
It's been a pleasure joining you, and thank you very much,
and I hope all of your listeners I appreciate the
great work that you do to bring in important topics
for everyone's interest.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Thank you very much, Professor Jacobson. If they get the
boss to let me know, and I owe you a
cup of coffee, I mean that or dinner, thank you
very much. All Right, when we get back, let's continue
with our conversation. I really want to hear from you
six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty the good,
the bad, and the ugly. Six one seven, nine, three
one ten thirty. Have you had problems? Let's share the
(39:09):
information here on North America's back porch.
It's night with Dan Ray. I'm telling you Feazy Boston's
new radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, welcome back everybody. Thank you very much, Dan Watkins.
As as you may know, it's a week or so ago,
maybe a little longer. Then there was what's been characterized
as the National Public Data breach, in which I'm told
two point nine billion records were stolen from National Public Data,
(00:30):
which is a Florida based credit and criminal background check company.
The records reportedly include a large amount of sensitive information,
including social security numbers. There's a hacking group called us
DoD doesn't stay it for. The Defense Department has taken
(00:53):
responsibility for the massive data breach. So I heard about this,
and I read about it, and I couldn't find straight
answers anywhere. And today I asked our producer Marita to
see what she could do, and she introduced me to
Professor Sheldon Jacobson, who's PhD and director of the Institute
(01:16):
for Computational Redistricting. He is also the founder of the
computer science program at the University of Illinois. So, Professor
Sheldon Jacobson, I'm hoping you're going to have some answers
as to what happened and how we can prevent it
from happening anything worse happening to us. How are you tonight,
(01:39):
good evening, sir.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well, it's a pleasure to be with you. Thank you
for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, thanks very much. First of all, what is the
National Public Data Is that the organization that was hacked.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yeah, this is an organization that basically provide data for
people who want background checks on people. Do is They
scrape data from the Internet and other sources. Some of
it is publicly available, some of it is not, and
they have that in a repository which they then sell
it for people who want to do a background check.
(02:13):
So if someone is going to apply for employment and
you want to get some background information on them, you
pay a fee and you're able to get information. Or
if someone's just curious about their neighbor and they want
to get some background information, they can pay the fee
and also get information. So there's so much data out
there on the Internet, in our digital economy, in a
(02:34):
technical society that in essence, so much is known about
so much of us. Some people just want to know,
some people need to know, but some people just want
to know. And an organization like the National Public Data
Company isn't an entity that sells this information and makes
it available.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Okay, Now what troubles me most is that I always
thought call me naive, I'll be happy to respond to
that appellation. I always thought that your social Security number
was something that you were supposed to protect with your life,
(03:12):
that even when people asked you for the last four
digits of your so scurity dumban, you should be careful
who you're talking to. And I also thought that that
was our identification number, almost like our fingerprints. That was
what I've always thought it was. And my understanding is
that amongst these two point billion pieces of information, they
(03:33):
may have your social Security number or my social Security number.
What's the likelihood of that or can you even begin
to estimate that likelihood?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Well, a better way to frame that question is, what's
the likelihood that someone out there has your social Security
number that you did not give permission to have? And
the probability the likelihood is extremely high. I always tell
people that don't assume that your information is being protected.
Assume the worst, which is that all of your information,
(04:05):
your social Security number, your address, your phone numbers, everything
about you, your family members is a known entity. Because
this is valuable information for bad actors who want to
do something which is take your money in an instance, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
That I understand. But for example, when you sign up
for the draft or when you're conscripted in the military,
they do want your SOB scurity number, but you're giving
that to someone who represents the Department of Defense. And
you assume when you file your income tax returns you
have to include your sole security number when you pay
your estimated taxes every quarter. There's a lot of interaction
(04:45):
with government agencies. When when I'm opening a bank account,
I think I have to provide my SO security number,
But I'm not giving my SO screuty number to someone
who calls up and says to me, Hi, I'm the
prince from Nigeria and I want to put money in
your bank, But can you give them my SO scurity umber.
(05:06):
I always assume that anyone who who would ask me
and I'm going to be naive now, anyone who would
ask me by my SO security number, I ARAUS Defense
Department on whomever would guard that? Or am I just horrible?
You naive? Professor?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Well, people will give their Social Security number if it's requested,
and they often even don't think about it. So if
you apply for a department store credit card, you will
have to give your Social Security number. You are entrusting
them to maintain the confidential of it. The challenge is
that we've had so many security breaches over the last
(05:47):
several years. Just think back to twenty seventeen when Equifax
had their security breach that involved over one half of
all adults in the United States had their personal information
basically be breached. That information is valuable to bad actors.
In fact, for this particular security breach, they found that
(06:08):
someone is trying to sell these records for over three
million dollars. Three million dollars, and someone is going to
buy it because they will have access to all this
personal information that ultimately can then be resold, redistributed, and
ultimately an attempt to get financial gain. Sounds our information
(06:29):
is all out there.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, sounds to be professor. Let that if they are
going to provide someone with two point nine billion pieces
of information three million dollars almost sounds like chump change.
That there will be a bunch of people are going
to step forward and say, hey, I'll give you four
millions for that. I mean, so this now is going
to be out there, which of course leads us to
(06:50):
the question, what should all of us do. You mentioned
prior breaches of security. Can we assume that somehow we're
I mean, I can't change my Social Security number. I
know I can't do that. What defense mechanism do I
(07:13):
have left in my arsenal of defense mechanisms to utilize?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Well, there's a tremendous number of things you can do.
The first thing is you want to freeze your credit,
which means that if someone has your social Security number
and they attempt to get a credit card, take out
a loan, purchase a car, do anything like that, they're
going to require a background check, and that background check
will involve knowing their social Security number. If someone has it,
(07:41):
that's wonderful. They can say, oh, yes, I am you
know Mary Smith or John Jackson, and here's my social
Security number, and then they put it through. But if
you have a security freeze in place, the organization who
wants to give you credit will say, I'm sorry, you
have a freeze. You're going to have to unfreeze it,
at which point the person, oh I forgot I'll be
(08:01):
back and they never see them again.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Okay, So how does one for my listeners? How and
my listeners rings the gamut in terms of age and experience?
How do they freeze their credit? And what are the
implications they're off?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Well, it's very simple, but it's not necessarily easy. It's
simple because if you go to the three agencies that
basically oversee credit in this country, which is Experience, Equifax,
and TransUnion, you can set up an account online no cost,
or you can call them and say I want to
freeze my credit. They'll know exactly what that means, and
(08:37):
then they will require some paperwork or some information about you,
but ultimately it will get frozen. And once it's frozen,
you have locked down the ability for these bad actors
to use the information they have about you to in essence,
takeout loans, buy cars, you know, set up a cell
(08:59):
phone service, whatever they're trying to do. Many any many
financial interactions will require Social Security number. The fact that
they have it isn't the problem. It's the question of
whether they can use it to gain financially and you
can stop that with a credit freeze.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Okay, and what if? What then? The implications?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
What's the downside? You freeze your credit? You can still
use your credit card, you just can't go. You could
cure a new credit.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Card exactly, and you can still use your credit card.
But if you want it to for example, take out
a loan, a mortgage, you know, buy a car with
an auto loan, you're going to have to temporarily unfreeze
it to allow the legitimate agency who wants to give
you credit to check your credit. But once you do that,
you just refreeze it right away. So literally this can
(09:50):
almost beat that in five or ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
How difficult is it to unfreeze it? So in other words,
what do you have to do to prove to TransUnion
or Equifax or Experience that you know and again, you
do it with one, you don't have to do with
all three. I assume if you freeze it with one,
you also can unfreeze it with all three.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, well you have to freeze them all individually, and
you'd have to unfreeze them individually. But most entities who
want to give you credit, they'll say we're going to
use TransUnion or Ecofax or Experience. They won't use all
of the typically and they'll tell you which one. The
easiest way is to set up an account with these
and then you can go in and to freeze or unfreeze,
you're literally pressing a button. You're clicking on one little
(10:31):
icon and it's done. It's so simple, okay, and it's
amazing that people don't do that because it is the
single most important thing to do, given the fact that
your information is already out there.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Okay, So assuming the information is out there, you have
to go to each of these credit agencies, is that
the correct term? Or no credit monitoring suce that's.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Right, Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Three companies, that's.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Right, TransUnion, Experience, Equifax, So there's those. If you freeze
it with each of those big three, you have provided
a layer of protection that is that's important, okay. And
then in order to unfreeze it, you you can move,
you can do it. Okay, let me do this. I'd
like to pause, if you would. I got to take
a commercial break. I also would like to invite some
(11:24):
of my listeners to join us and ask you questions,
because frankly, I know a little bit about this, but
I'm smart enough to know that I don't know all
that that my listeners know, and so there may be
some questions that my listeners have. Would you be willing
to take a few questions.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Be happy to help?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Excellent, excellent. My guest is doctor Sheldon Jacobson. He's with
the University of Illinois. He's the founder of the computer
science program there. He's also the director of the Institute
for Computational Redistricting. We'll explain well, I'll get an explanation
of what that is. If you would like to ask
(12:02):
doctor Jacobson a question, offer a thought, I'd love to
have you joined the conversation. This is one of those
programs that I think is really important. We can talk politics,
we can talk you know, Trump, Harris, we can talk
all of that sort of stuff any night, but this
is we've found a great resource. Uh. He's very forthcoming
(12:24):
and very clear. Give us a call six one seven
four ten thirty or six one seven nine ten thirty
back on knights I would Professor Sheldon Jacobson at the
University of Illinois. Right after a few messages.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nights Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
My guest is Professor Sheldon Jacobson. Uh, And as I expected,
we have a bunch of phone calls. So without any
further ado, is there anything that I have not asked
you that you think is narrative for you to share
with my audience before we go to phone calls. I
(13:05):
love the idea of freezing the credit account, and I
have seen that mentioned earlier in other venues. But you
explained and have convinced me that it one should be done,
and that it can be done simply, and it can
be undone simply. Anything else that people can do on
a short term basis.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
The thing that you can also purchase identification theft protection,
which would be the next layer, which in fact they'll
do the freezing and unfreezing for you if it's because
you pay for that service. That's another thing which makes
it a little easier for people. Does cost money obviously
to do this well, just freezing does not cost anything.
So there's different layers of protections you can put in,
(13:46):
and you have to ask yourself how much layers do
I want to pay forward and provide? Because think of
it this way. If you're in a group of people
and you're being attacked by a bear, you don't have
to run fast than the bear. You just have to
can't be the slowest person running.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yes, I was about to say that, Yes.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
You just want to stay ahead of people so that
when they go through many, many social security numbers, if
you've provided some headwinds to them accessing cure credit, then
they're going to go to someone else. And that's the
way it works. Keep that in mind. You're not going
to be able to be completely risk free, but you
want to be more protected than everybody else. And freezing
(14:32):
is a really an important thing.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Okay, who are the companies because I think I hear
them advertised that we have a million dollars worth of protection.
Is there a company that you feel is the gold
standard in terms of again this unlimited threat protection.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Well, I prefer not to mention the name of a company.
What I would suggest people to is simply Google IDs
have protection. And there are so many surveys out there,
and they're all a little different, but they're providing some
moller services. I'll let each person to choose. But I
don't want to get into an endorsement in this particular case.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
No, No, I understand that, and I respect that, I
really do, you know, but I I also I know
that there are probably some companies out there that might
promise you the world, but in the event of a problem,
you know what, what what can you do to make
sure that they beg back back up their problem? You
know their promise? I meaning you know you you hire
(15:28):
a lawyer to uh TO to do some estate planning
for you. If he doesn't do the estate planning, then
you don't pay the lawyer. That's I just but but
I'm not going to pressure pressure you on that, that's
for sure. So other other than freezing the accounts on
your own Google I D threat protection and do your
own research. But find a company who you would pay.
(15:50):
Is that a one time only fee or is that
sort of you pay so much every year and if
you don't pay, the threat protection vanishes? Does these type
actually do it differ? Linked?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
It's a service you pay on an ongoing basis, much
like your cell phone service and others. You just pay
it regularly, either in a yearly or on a monthly basis,
and it provides the kind of prediction that you know,
it's peace of mind, what you want to pay for
and what you're comfortable with.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, it's like having an alarm system on your home.
I get it. It's it's peace of mind. So let
me ask you this question. What is a reasonable amount
of money? Do they charge you based upon what your
assets are? Or does every person who would who would
present themselves as a potential customer they treated the same way? Uh?
(16:38):
You know, obviously life insurance, the the fee for life
insurance is correlated to your age. And maybe if you
have to take a medical exam, what is the what's
the standard? If you know and I get them I
learned in law school. The only dumb question of the
questions you don't you're afraid to answer to ask so
uh is do you have any idea what the standard
(17:00):
sort of range of fees would be on an annual
basis for something like that thread protection?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It depends on the level of protection that you want.
There's minimal amounts that you can have, which is a
more modest monthly fee or an annual fee, and then
they have, you know, higher levels of protection which also
increase the coverage. So it's not so much based on
your assets, it's what you want to purchase in terms
of protection.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Okay, So so almost as if you were going to,
you know, get protection for a home that's worth of
two hundred or three hundred thousand dollars worth. It is
worth a home that's worth two or three million dollars. Okay, perfectly,
perfectly clear examples which I love. My guest is Professor
Sheldon Jacobson. We're right at the bottom of the hour,
(17:46):
virtually within a minute, and I don't want to short
change anyone, so I will tell you the only lines
that the only line open right now is six one seven,
nine three, one ten thirty. If you're dialing two five,
four to ten thirty, the lines are full, try six
one seven, nine three one ten thirty. Hoping doctor Jacobson
will be kind enough to stay with us for another
half hour and take as many questions as possible. We
(18:06):
will be back with doctor Sheldon Jacobson, who is a
fabulous guest, and I very really describe my guest as fabulous,
Doctor Jacobson. Your answers are thorough, comprehensive and clear, which
is exactly you must make a terrific expert witness in
a quote of law. Because you really are very, very good,
and I just want us to thank you for your
(18:28):
time tonight. This You're exactly the type of guests I've
been looking for, and my producer has been seeking for
about a week. So she did a great job finding you.
I thank you for your time tonight. Stay right there.
We got a news break. It's about three or four minutes.
If you need to get up and get a glass
of water. Now is the time back with doctor Sheldon
Jacobson and the University of Illinois. Fighting a Line A
(18:49):
Line Knight. I believe is the name of the correct
is that you're a fighting a line night? Correct Or
have they changed that? All right? Just as look, please
don't change that name. I love that name. Improve me
back on night Side right after this with your phone calls.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
It's night Side with Dan Ray on w BSS, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
That I did have pizza and ice cream. I just
felt like pizza and ice cream. Not gonna eat pizza
and ice cream every night, but I don't waking when
any you could splurge and I felt like it tonight.
Let's go to the call for the phones, my guest,
uh see, I had ice cream on my mind. I
was thinking of ice cream cones. Professor Sheldon Jacobson at
the University of Illinois. Let's go to Bill and Danvers, Massachusetts. Hey, Bill,
(19:32):
welcome back, how are you sir.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Good good, yes, doctor that I am experient and you
can go on. Of course I wanted there's your credit,
you know, and you can go on and get all
three credit reports.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Maybe if I'm going for col Loo, and sometimes I'll
do it, I'll look at my overall, but that auction
to lock it is on there.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Also.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
I have love luck. If I were to fill an
application out right now for a credit card, probably as
soon as I hit click that button, probably within one
to two minutes, I would get a notification, a text
message and email, and if I didn't answer it was
me or not, then the phone rings. They also alert
(20:14):
you if you find anything on the doc web. They
monitor that because some stuff you said.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I know that doctor Jacobson is not here to endorse
any company. You said that you have LifeLock. I think
you said yeah, yeah, and they advertised that heavily. Are
you Are you happy with them?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Bill? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:34):
I mean I want to say, it's been years I've
had them, and but they you know, they let you know.
Also they had a thing because I went on one
day and you know, the look and I don't know
what the doctor field. They have this thing called the
privacy scan. I don't know if you know it was
it wasn't that much more a month. And you know,
if you go punch in your name on some of
(20:54):
the side, you know, if you kind of see who
you're related to this, I mean, there's a lot of
information on the computer. You spend ten minutes look around,
and he roughly knew somebody's age and stuff and where
they live. You could actually find out. So this privacy
scan kind of goes on and it tells you what
it's complete. They notified to pull stuff down and they
scan every month. So in the beginning there was like
two hundred and something sits. I mean now it's like
(21:15):
five sticks, eight sites. They'll tell you if they found,
what they removed and everything else. So I don't know
how accurate it is, but I assume anything that kind
of keeps stuff under control and maybe keeps less information
out there for eight ninety nine a month on top
of whatever, probably isn't the worst thing. So I don't
know if the doctor knows anything about that.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Say let's say he does. Doctor Jacobson. Bill is a again,
he's with one of these agencies, and I guess there
was an add on which you would expect. It's like
go to a restaurant. You want an appetizer with that steak,
how about the nice dessert at the end of the meal.
I mean you can order what you know what I
guess what you want? Does any of that do you do?
(21:57):
You think what Bill is saying is accurate.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Well, it really comes down to a comfort level for
the individual. If you want more and more protection, you
will pay more and more price. Remember, these companies do
a very valuable service that you pay for to protect you,
but they also want to stay in business and make money,
so they will offer as many things that is available.
Once again, if it's a question of how many layers
(22:24):
you want to add in and will they lead to
you having a compromise in your finances, because I think
that's what most of us are interested in. We don't
want someone taking money out of our bank account. We
don't want money at people taking a credit card out
in our name and compromising our financial life.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
And there's a cost us. There's a cost associated with everything.
It's no company is going to do this for free.
So people, as you say, doctor Jacobson, have to check
out the companies that are competitors. I will tell you
that when you go it, and I did during the
I went to the idea of googling ID threat protection. Oh.
(23:05):
At the top of the Google are are ads that
are sponsored. You can look at those, but you may
want to go past the sponsored ads to get to
the to some of the more legitimate companies. Not that
the ads that the ads are not legitimate companies, but
just recognize you're looking at the first choice that you're
going to come across is probably an ad that is
(23:25):
that has been paid for. Bill. Appreciate you, Carl, Thank
you forgetting it's calling. I got a whole bunch of calls.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Ye oh yeah, I have a good night guys.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Are you too, my friend? Let me go to John
and Boston. John next on nice side with doctor Sheldon Jacobson.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Go right ahead, thanks man.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
Thanks doctor Jickson. It's not good to email from TransUnion said,
I got a doc web lord. I've never been on
the doc web, so I was. I try to call
TransUnion a number of times and I got disconnected. I
couldn't get through. And I'm not because I wasn't even
sure if email is legit from Transunions, because I've getting
(24:00):
I've gotten other banks that they were basically they look
identical also, but they weren't from the comedy. So I'm
not sure at this point exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
What was the John, what what was the the the
email that was? Where did that email come from? Did
it say TransUnion dot com?
Speaker 5 (24:16):
Did it say it does say TransUnion, but what else
does it say? It's a TransUnion? Uh, let's see at
E M t UC dot TransUnion dot console that that
looms to be.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
That looks to me like a scam. Doctor.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Well, you've got to be extremely careful because there's so
much phishing out there that they will try and attract
you to click on an email. If you get an
unsolicited email, assume the worst. If you want to speak
to TransUnion, Experience or Equifax, go to their websites directly
and make sure it's a legitimate one. Look at the
(24:54):
address very carefully, or else you may end up getting
into a fake website and they will pull your information.
So do not assume that an unsolicited email is legitimate
because they're being sent out by the Penns hundreds of
millions to everyone hoping that a few people will click
on them.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
John, just think you just read to me what the
return address was it said TransUnion and then.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
What uh so, let's see it says TransUnion at em
deaf tuci dot TransUnion dot com.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Absolutely fake, Absolutely in my opinion, John, I don't know
if doctor Jacobson, Professor Jacobson the fact if it's going
to be TransUnion dot tom and should say TransUnion dot com.
I get those all the time, all the time. I'm
a fairly well known radio personality, and I just if
I see anything, even the ones that I see that
(25:54):
I think are legitimate, I will call. I will call
or I will send an email to them on an
email address that I know is accurate. Simple as that.
I would not touch that. I would not respond to that.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
John, that I I definitely didn't death I wanted to.
I just got the other day. I didn't have fun
to foll up when I heard your radio program. That's
way well, John, you.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Know, I think I know you. You know me. I'm
not going to give you bad advice intentionally. If they
really want to get to you, they'll they'll give you
a phone call or they'll send you a letter like
you never get anything for the government. John got to run.
Thank you much. Thank Thank you Mary and Medford. Mary
next one nights.
Speaker 7 (26:32):
I go right ahead, Hi Dan, thanks for taking my call,
and hello Professor Jacobson. I experienced something like this a
couple of weeks ago. I have a Discover card and
Discover and one of the features of Discover card is
they checked to see that nobody's bothered with your social
(26:56):
Security number or anything. And they told me and they
showed me that I was on the dark Web, and
they showed me the last four numbers of my social
Security card and they gave me a number to Discover with.
This was all in an email. So instead of calling
(27:17):
that number, I called the number I usually called Discover
on and I asked the person you know, to direct
me to the fraud group and all that, and they
directed me to They told me my name came up
on the dark web and to go to the three
(27:38):
credit bureaus you know, Experience and the other two the
TransUnion and block my credit and which I did. But
one of my sons happened to come in when I
was doing it, and he says, it's very important that
you write down your password and put it someplace safe,
(28:00):
because if you want to unblock it, you're going to
have a problem. If you don't have the correct password.
Speaker 5 (28:06):
Perfect.
Speaker 7 (28:06):
I just wanted to pass that on.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
All right, Mary, good advice. Thank you very much.
Speaker 7 (28:11):
You're welcome.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Let me get one more in here before the break.
Let me go to Melissa in the great state of Oregon.
Melissa and it's Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Correct, that's correct me.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Welcome back, Professor Sheldon Jacobson. Go ahead, Melissa.
Speaker 8 (28:29):
Hi. I have my question for your guests. Is this
So the company that got hacked is the company we
go through for background checks? How can this company be trusted?
Speaker 9 (28:42):
And the reason I asked that question is is I
work with data and I have gone through several background
checks so for NSA data and other types of data,
and they're quite nitpicky, and now that I've heard they've
gotten haacked, I'm wondering if I can trust their information
(29:02):
that they're providing about me.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Well, that's a great question. And the fact is that
National Public Data scrapes their data, sometimes without your permission.
Sometimes it's just public data, and not all of it
is correct. So we exactly just assume that everything that
they have out there is correct. In fact, they may
have exposed some information about you personally, which isn't even accurate,
(29:29):
and it has absolutely no value to the bad actors
who are going to buy it and try and use it.
That's why the metaphor of staying ahead of the bear.
You know, you don't thrun faster, and the bear just
faster than everybody, at least a few other people. You
don't want to be the slowest to stay idea freezing
your credit and putting fraud alerts on. Doing all these
(29:49):
simple little things will make it a little more difficult
for someone to use your information. That they'll have it,
but if they don't use it, then it has no
value to them and it won't hurt you.
Speaker 9 (30:02):
So many corporate one hundred, two hundred, three hundred and
four out of five hundred organizations though, are doing major
background checks on people for them.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
To get jobs.
Speaker 9 (30:13):
Because of the use of data in the workplace, this
can prevent someone from getting a job within accurate data,
and so we're now putting the employee at risk, the
potential employee. So it feels like there's good, there's a
gap here. It feels like you know, not only is
(30:33):
the individual at risk for having their their personal information
out there, but that they're possibly at risk for not
getting a job or am I totally conspiracy theorying this.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Well, a smart employer will understand exactly what you said,
and what they will do is they will go to
multiple sources to check if there's a consistency, then they
will come to the potential employee and talk to them
about it. So remember, data is valuable, but data doesn't
give the whole picture. Ultimately, it's human interactions that determine decisions.
(31:11):
The data informs it, but it's about people. Let's never
forget that.
Speaker 9 (31:16):
Yeah, that's a great point. But they unfortunately they outsource
it to these companies, right, and it's just kind of
a paper, but it's really a great topic. I'm so
glad you covered this.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Dand Melissa, my pleasure are always great to.
Speaker 9 (31:28):
Hear your voice you too, behave bye bye.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
How are you Cincinnati? Red's doing?
Speaker 9 (31:34):
Oh I've lost seven in a row, but that is
out of the last ten. But that's okay, there's always
next year. Take care.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
We're going to be saying the same thing in Boston
unfortunately as well. Thanks go Red, sox H take a
very quick break. My guest is Professor Sheldon Jacobson, University
of Illinois. Steve Joel and Laurie. We will get you
on before we have to say good night to doctor Jacobson.
And doctor Jacobson, thank you so much again for being
(32:01):
here and sticking with us until eleven o'clock in the east.
We'll be back as as I told you, we have
listeners all over the country. We'll be back on night
Side right after this now.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Bent to Dan ray Mine from the Window World night
Side STOs on w b Z News Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Okay, we're not going to get everyone in. We're going
to continue our conversation of this after the eleven but
let me go next to Joel in Natick. Joel, you're
next on Nightside with Professor Sheldon Jacobson. Go ahead, Joel.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yes, So my question is does he know anything about
the website pentesta dot com.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Okay, let's see if you heard that, how do you
spell that website.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Pen testa dot com. Pen test is one word?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Okay, it sounds like it's p E n T E
s T a pen testa e pen tester Okay, like
a fountain pen being tested pen tester. Doctor, are you familiar?
First of all, Joel, what type of tell us what
website is? Give us a hint.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Well, if it's I'm kind of a company that said
you have a break, recommended going to this website, and
by putting in your email, it tells you what puts
on infanation is out there, what companies have the infanation
in you user name, your password, and your IP addresses?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
WHOA Have you ever heard of such a website? Doctor professor?
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Well, I know that websites as such exist, and they
certainly provide some useful information. But once again, there's a
couple of things to be careful of. One is people
can put up stake websites to have you put in
that information so they can access it. So you have
to be very very careful this particular one. I am
not fam you're with. That doesn't mean it's not legitimate.
(33:48):
It's just that I'm not aware of it. But there's
many sites like this. But once again, the thing to
remember is that all of our information is already out there.
It's already out there, which means that let's set up
some layers around us to protect us. So as a
result of that, Pentester, there's also a company called Atlas Privacy.
(34:10):
They will you can put in information and I can
say with probability ninety ninety nine that your information will
come up saying yes, yes, yes, you have been compromised.
Because with such a large data breach, everybody's been compromised.
But they've been compromised from Equifax in twenty seventeen and
so many others. We'd like to believe in an ideal
(34:33):
world that we're safe and protected, but we have to
take some ownership of the fact that our data's out there.
Let's do what we can. And that's why freezing is
so critical. Every single person listening, you should be creating
accounts on Equifax, Experience and TransUnion tonight and freezing your
credit You might as well. And the sooner you do it,
(34:54):
the safer you will be. In particular, the safer your
finances are going to be.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Real quick follow up question, Professor Jacobson. By freezing those accounts,
obviously you trust these accounts completely, Equifax, TransUnion and Experience.
They could they recommend to you or to anyone if
let's say this account that Joel's talking about pentester dot
(35:21):
com is legitimate, or would they stay away from advising
anyone on those type of accounts.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Well, based on the information that I know, it is
a legitimate company. It's Pentester Cybersecurity and they have a
website and you can actually check your information and when
you put it in you're going to find out, oh gee,
I've been compromised. So they do exist. But once again,
knowing that you've been compromised is not the problem. It's
what protections you can put in place so that the
(35:51):
information about you does not get used to hurt you financially.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
That's great, Jill, thank you very much. That's a great question.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
And one more. Thank do me.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
You got to be really quick on this one because I.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I know stoneum Bank called me and said someone tried
to open the account your social security number and SOONEUM Bank
wouldn't open it up because apparently had the wrong address.
And then he said, oh, by the way, this is
the collect address was supposed to have. But they wanted
to open their account but they had my solid security number.
That's just a state story.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Boy.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
You okay, appreciate it. Thanks, Joe, appreciate it very much.
Let me go to Laurie and Clinton. Laurie, you were
next on nights side. I'm going to try to get you,
and if you can't get your question answered, I'll hold
your wall over. Go ahead, Laurie, Hi, I.
Speaker 10 (36:34):
Just have a little story about one of the one
of the three major ones. I'm not sure which one
it was, but I was trying to buy a bed
at Bob's Discount Furniture, and I was trying to apply
for credit to get the you know, the free yearly
free payments for a year, and I was able to
go in. He don't now. There was a new guy
(36:55):
that I was dealing with. He said, oh, go in,
and I told him that all make accounts were frozen.
I've they've been frozen for decades and I've never had
to use I used it once about twenty years ago,
and I couldn't get in. So I just I just
never applied for any credit anymore. And then so I'm
applying for a credit that about two weeks ago, and
(37:17):
he told me to go in and unprease one of them.
I unfroze that one and I still got rejected. So
I went in and I froze, unfroze the second one.
I still got rejected. And then but then then I
was able to get them both unfrozen, and it was temporary.
It was very nice because I could do it temporarily,
so I just unfrozen it for like three days. I
date three days from then, and and then I still
(37:41):
got rejected. So then I said, I'll have to do
the third one. The third one I think was transient,
but I'm not sure. It required a pass code, and
the other way I get the pass code, and I
don't remember.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
My pass code.
Speaker 10 (37:53):
I remember getting it, but I don't remember where it
is at the time, so I couldn't, you know, I
wanted to do it just then, and.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
So I am.
Speaker 10 (38:02):
They said I could get a pass over, it would
take three to five days to come in the mail.
I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
I just paid.
Speaker 10 (38:07):
I just played with my credit card.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Well, it's a wonderful story, Laurie, appreciate it very much.
It shows us about how carefully you have to be
when you when you create a pass code. We've all,
we've all done all been there. Thanks Laurie, love the story.
Thank you very much, Professor Jacobson. You have been a
fabulous guest. I'd love to be able to get you
back at some point because more people are hanging on
the line. I'm going to deal with them next hour,
(38:31):
but I'd love to get you back if that would
be possible. I really appreciated your your time tonight, your clarity,
and your precision. It was excellent.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
It's been a pleasure joining you, and thank you very much,
and I hope all of your listeners I appreciate the
great work that you do to bring in important topics
for everyone's interest.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Thank you very much, Professor Jacobson. If they get the
boss to let me know, and I owe you a
cup of coffee, I mean that or dinner, thank you
very much. All Right, when we get back, let's continue
with our conversation. I really want to hear from you
six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty the good,
the bad, and the ugly. Six one seven, nine, three
one ten thirty. Have you had problems? Let's share the
(39:09):
information here on North America's back porch.
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