September 19, 2024 • 39 mins
We kicked off the program with four news stories and different guests on the stories we think you need to know about!
Think you are sick? It may be the nocebo effect. What is the nocebo effect? John Kelley - Professor of psychology at Endicott College has the answer.
Richard Sima - neuroscientist turned science journalist who writes the Brain Matters column for The Washington Post says: Be humble. It’s good for learning and your relationships.
Nick O’Malley – MassLive writer and Senior Producer on the foods he tried at the Big E Fair!
The long-awaited rate cut is here. Here’s what that means for your wallet with Bill Dendy - Financial Strategist with Raymond James.
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio!
Think you are sick? It may be the nocebo effect. What is the nocebo effect? John Kelley - Professor of psychology at Endicott College has the answer.
Richard Sima - neuroscientist turned science journalist who writes the Brain Matters column for The Washington Post says: Be humble. It’s good for learning and your relationships.
Nick O’Malley – MassLive writer and Senior Producer on the foods he tried at the Big E Fair!
The long-awaited rate cut is here. Here’s what that means for your wallet with Bill Dendy - Financial Strategist with Raymond James.
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thank you very much to call. I want our audience
to know for sure that they will be well served
by us tonight. This program will be much more exciting,
much more satisfying, and much more informative than any football
game anywhere in the United States of America tonight. And
I wasn't sure what Nicole was talking about, but don't
even worry about that game, because it matters. Not. What
(00:29):
matters is all the great guests we have for you
here on Nightside. My name is Dan Ray, and I
will take you all the way until midnight, and we
will talk with some great guests in the first hour,
and we'll talk later on tonight with the wz car
guys from ten until midnight, which will give you an
opportunity to get all of your automotive questions answered. And
(00:50):
then we're going at nine o'clock talk about that horrific
attack that some of the guards up at the state
prison in Lancaster, Massachusetts were objected to last night. We'll
get to all of that, but first I want to
remind you that Rob Brooks is back in the control
room and he will take care of you when we
do get time to take phone calls. There are no
(01:11):
phone calls during the first hour, however, and the reason
for that is we have four great guests. We're going
to start off with Professor John Kelly. He is a
professor at Endicott College, which happens to be one of
my favorite colleges I think the most beautiful college campus
in maybe all of the country, never mind certainly here
(01:32):
in New England. Professor John Kelly, Welcome to Nightside.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
How are you, hi, Dan, I'm very well, Thank you
very much. That's a great I agree with you about
our campus, a beautiful, beautiful place.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, it's also you know President Richard Wiley, or Dick
Wiley as we knew him. I was very close with
Professor Wiley actually delivered the commencement address at Endicott College
in two thousand and nine. Yes, and I you know,
I've been there on the campus many times. We've done
some talk the votes up there during election seasons pre COVID, Yes, absolutely,
(02:06):
gathered together unmasked. But so you're a psychology professor up
there and you have been there, Rob tells me for
close to a couple of decades. So if I've met
you at some point on campus.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I've seen you only you know in the audience. We
have not personally met before. But yeah, it's great to
meet you teleponically anyway.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Absolutely, So you are going to explain to us something
called the no cibo effect. It's sort of the opposite
of the plus ebo effect. You were quoted very prominently
in an article in the Washington Post about a month
and a half ago. And I think everybody knows what
(02:49):
a placebo is. If why don't you give us the
easy definition.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Of a placebo.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Because I think everyone knows what a placebo is, and
I think that will set up the explanation of the
no cebo very well if you don't.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Mind, well, sure, I mean, placebo really is just any
kind of treatment it can be. Usually people think of
it as a pill with really no active ingredient. It
could have sugar in it. More often it has cellulocin
itch or something very inert that is used often in
randomized control trials to determine whether the real drug actually
works better than what would happen if the person takes
(03:27):
the drug and has positive expectancies and expecting to do
well even though they're not getting a real drug they
think they might be, and they often show dramatic improvement.
So that's a placebo effect essentially, and so it's.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
All in the mind, it's not within the physical system.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Well, that's very interesting that you say. I mean that's
the way we kind of think about it. The way
I just describe it, it sounds like it's sort of
all in your head, which makes one think, oh, it's
not a real phenomenon. It's kind of fague and if
it's for a period of time. That was the way
it was thought about, But there has been a lot
of research to show that there are real physic theological
changes that occur for people. And if you think about it,
I think psychology, yes, it's something's happening in the mind.
(04:06):
But the mind is, you know, is a part of
the brain, a part of the body, so it's all connected,
and so if you have a feel like you're doing better,
there are actual physiological changes.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Sure, Okay, So a no Sebel effect is the flip
side of it. This is not something that happens in
regularly scheduled tests, but this is something that some of
us go through. And why don't you explain it? What
the no Sebel effect.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Is sure, and I would argue that we all experience
this in one way or the other, both no cibo
and placebo effects. I also will just say, just to
preface this, that not only could this occur in reference
to an inert treatment, you know, a sugar pill, but
it can also occur with real treatments. That real treatments
could be the effects of them, could be increased or
(04:55):
decreased through psychological mechanisms. But anyway, the no sebo effect,
some people think about it as sort of the dark
side of the placebo, the evil twin of placebo, And
it's basically just the notion that if you take a treatment,
even if it's a placebo, but even if it's a
real treatment, and you hear about some negative side effects,
that you may experience those side effects, maybe because the
(05:19):
drugs causing it, but the no cbo effect would because
of this sort of mind body situation where you are
thinking about you have a negative expectancy, and that produces
the symptoms that we call the no cibo effect.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So this to me shows pretty clearly how powerful our
minds are and how we can be I mean, some
of us suffer from how closely Is this related to
just people who are generally more anxious than other people.
I don't know if there's been a study done, is
there a correlation there.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, there's been a lot of search for who is
the placebo responder, who is a no CIBO responder, And
I would say, I'm sure that there's their variabilities and
this sort of thing. But I think let me give
an example of what you could consider a no CBO
effect in a sense, Like an example of this would
be if you are exercising. You know, it's hard for
people sometimes they're working out, and if they're staring at
(06:14):
the clock, you know, waiting for it to be over,
it's much more painful than if you distract yourself. If
you're paying attention to a movie that's very engaging, the
pain seems like it's less than it would otherwise be,
even though you're experiencing the exact same sort of physiological challenge.
So our mind has an effect, you know, depending on
whether we're focusing on the pain.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
You know, it's funny. I probably must be the exception
to the rule because when I work out and I'm
an elliptical guys, you stop eventually running and pounding knees
and ankles, and you get to the elliptical, which is
a great machine. I love the mathematics of the elliptical
because I don't know if you're an elliptical guy yourself,
but I.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Have used them quite a bit. I'm similarly to you.
No more running and all stationary bike, ellipticals, that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
That's right. So, but but what I try to do is, Okay,
what's my projection. I've gone, you know, ten minutes here,
I'm gonna go twenty five, I'm gonna go thirty and
when I change and I move the resistance up or whatever. Okay,
how many? How many can I do more calories during
this five minute period? All of that, and it's my
(07:23):
mind stays active. I don't, you know, I don't put
your plugs in. I don't. I don't watch a movie,
you know, just the gym that I work out, and
it's a small gym, and there's no there's no TVs,
there's no movies. So I keep my mind active, which
helps the time go more quickly. But I do it
by doing mental mathematical gymnastics, which.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, and you're but your your focus then is on
the mental mathematical gymnastics, right, not on the pain itself.
You're and in fact, you're you're kind of almost wanting
to put yourself through more pain to achieve something. It's
like a runner, who's how do they, you know, keep going? Well,
they have this goal in mind and their mind is
focused on this and there it doesn't you know, the
example of going and not thinking about it all, Like
(08:08):
you know, a movie is one way to distract yourself
or at least turn your attention edit to a different way.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, yeah, well, look, it's interesting. I didn't I had
never heard of the nosibo effect. Based upon my conversation
with you, this is an effect that's not new. It's
been apparently around for a while, but this is the
first big article that I've ever read on it. And
you were quoted prominently in the Washington Post, and you've
(08:36):
explained it really well for me and for my audience,
and so thank you very much. And it's always great
to reconnect with Entercot College, which has the best in
addition to the best landscape and views of the Atlantic Ocean,
it also has the single best college student cafeteria, and
I've been to a lot of them.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Of any truly astounding.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yes, and that, of course that is the part of
the legacy of doctor Wiley.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Absolutely a wonderful person. Yes, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well I look, next time i'm up that way, I'll stop.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I'll look for you. I'll make a point to shake
your hand, come up to you. Thank you very much
for I had.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
An uncle named John Kelly, so we may somehow be
related to you.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
By the way, I think everyone has an uncle named
John Kelly.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
That's true. In this neck of the woods, it's fairly common.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
All right, thank you so much, professor.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
You're welcome. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I have a great night. Okay, So we were talking
about the no seeble effect. Well we're going to kind
of stay in the in the mind a little bit.
We're going to talk with Richard Sema. He's a neuroscientist.
We're getting pretty pretty psychological tonight here, a neuroscientist turned
science journalist who writes the Brain Matters column for the
(09:53):
Washington Post. So we're sticking with the Washington Post tonight,
and he's going to talk about intellectual humility is for
learning and getting along with others. I like that. We'll
talk to him right after this quick break here on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Okay, so we talked about the no Seebele effect with
Professor John Kelly of Endicott College. We now are delighted
to welcome to the Nightside microphone Richard Seema. He's a
neuroscientist turned science journalist who writes the Brain Matters column
for The Washington Post. And intellectual humility is good for
(10:34):
learning and getting along with others. I don't think anyone
would argue with that, but let's give it a shot. Hi, Hi, Richard,
how are you tonight?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Doing well?
Speaker 5 (10:44):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I'm doing great. So intellectual humility, it sounds like a
good thing to have, and I think it is. I
read this column. Explain to us how you get it?
What percentages of people have any of it? And to
have some of it? How do you keep it in
this day and age.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, I mean, it's basically the acknowledgment that you know,
no one, including ourselves, knows everything. We have limits to
our knowledge or even our deepest hell beliefs can be valuable.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
And just being.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Open to the fact that you know other people might
know some things that you don't or that things that
you believe maybe wrong. I think it's hard to.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
You mean both you mean that both you and I
are are fallible.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate, you know, But maybe I'm
wrong about that. Maybe you aren't valuable, very very likely.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, here's my ideal, Richard. I get to do a
talk show four five nights away, four hours a night,
and when I make a mistake on the show, I
go out of my way fact particularly a factual mistake.
I go out and to acknowledge it. I think that's
really healthy.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Yeah, I agree, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I just think that it's a good idea. It's tougher,
I think when you're in personal relationships. So let's let's
talk about, you know, factual fallibility and then which is
pretty fine if you know, if you mentioned to me
or I mentioned to you that that I'm delighted that
we have forty eight states, and I have forgotten about
(12:19):
the last time I look it up, it's easier to say,
you know, Richie, you were right, I forgot. But what
do you do? How do you develop this when you're
in a contentious conversation. If idea, say about politics, or
maybe a personal matter with a member of your family.
How how how do you back out of it gracefully?
Speaker 4 (12:41):
What's the best I think? Yeah, I spoke with a
bunch of experts who study intellectual humility, and you know,
they told me that basically, it's it's it's helpful because
it keeps you open to other people's perspectives. You're more
likely to be empathetic to the fact that others have
maybe different values or different things that you know they
(13:01):
find important to believe in. And yeah, this topic of
you know, what happens in a politically contentious environment or conversation,
which is very common these days, is like part of
it is keeping in mind what your goal is for
this conversation, Like is it about proving yourself right and
you know, dominating another person in conversation or is it like, oh,
(13:24):
you know, you're a family member that I still care about,
even if we don't see eye to eye on any
like something that's important to both of us. But you know,
I think what intellectual humility can give us is you
don't go into a conversation like already you know, you know,
set against someone like you you may believe you're right
and you may have many reasons or any really good reasons,
(13:47):
but you know you can, you know, be open to
that there's something that you might miss. It doesn't mean
you have to change your mind, but means you have
to at least give them an opportunity to not you know,
just come in like swinging with all your rhetoric arguments.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, commit commit like and there's dare I say, like
Hal Colgan?
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Yeah, well I guess for Cogan that's your job and
you can do it in that context. But yeah, like
you know, take a moment where like what what do
you want out of this? Like, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
That Richard, you sound like a really reasonable guy. I
like to think you're fairly reasonable, but you sound much
more reasonable than do you actually you the column, the
article that you wrote was fascinating. Do you have you
adopted that in your own life? I mean, and I'm
(14:46):
not trying to be a wise guy when I asked.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
That question, No, no, no, I think you've got to come.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
To something like that. Naturally, don't you would you agree
or no?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Well?
Speaker 4 (14:55):
I think what's interesting is the research shows that yeah,
you know, people are on a spectrum of how likely
there are to be intill actually humble, but for different topics,
like if you're looking at religion versus science, or you know,
culture like best sports team. You know, people vary, right,
Like some things, it's very easy to you know, acknowledge that,
(15:17):
you know, the Boston Red Sox are, you know, like
they're great, but maybe they're not the best. And but
that's harder for other people knowledge. I know, I know,
I know, I did no, no, no. But but that's
the thing, right, It's like there's certain places that we
you know, maybe more susceptible to you know, not being
(15:42):
open to other perspectives, but you know, even just keeping
like the door is slightly cracked open.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You know what I love. I love the piece, but
I loved the paragraph. And you probably can anticipate what
I'm going to say to you. We're talking about it.
A study in twenty nineteen of almost what almost twelve
hundred subjects and one of the experiments I'm quoting from
(16:08):
your column here so and acknowledging you had. One experiment
asked participants to rake their familiarities with pieces of general knowledge,
for example Napoleon. Crucially, however, in the experiment they also
mixed in fictitious items, for example, Queen Shattuck Murphy's last ride. Yeah,
so they were people old Murphy's last ride. I learned
(16:32):
about that in the seventh grade. That's that's brilliant. And
so there were people who actually were claiming that they
were familiar with, you know, Queen Shaddock who never existed.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
That is not yeah person, yeah and no, And like
the study basically was fine name that, Yeah, you are
not only are people who rated to be were rated
to be more intellectually humble, like more knowledgeable about real things,
but they were less likely to overclaim that they knew
something that you know is fictitious. And you know, I
(17:08):
think that's important because it also opens us to learning
about new things or more curious, but also maybe more
discerning about how you process information. Just keeping yourself open
to yeah, the fact that you don't know everything. You'll
always encounter new stuff, and you know, it's it's up
to us to be like mindful about you know, what
we know and what we believe.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I think that there was a quote from Albert Einstein,
and I don't know if this was a neat quote
or if this was a real quote, but it sounded
it sounded pretty good Ifstein reportedly said that he wasn't
especially intelligent, but he had an unending curiosity, which I thought,
is even if it's made up, is a It's a
great way to look at life, be a little humble
(17:50):
if Albert Einstein can say something like that. He said,
and I think curiosity is the uh is Now again
I'm little biased to because I happen to consider me
I'm really curious. That is a sign of intelligence, not
necessarily a high IQ per se. But I think people
(18:10):
who are intellectually curious are more interesting, uh and they
have a wider breath of knowledge. I mean, when you
sit on an airplane, Richard, and I sit next to you,
do you, like just put your headphones on or do
you start a conversation? Because I'm the conversation guy, I'm
going to say, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Honestly depends if I'm to be honest, Like sometimes I
just need my own alone time. But yeah, Like, I mean,
that's the beauty of such a dast world as ours,
with so many different people with different experiences, right, Like
everyone can teach you something and you never know what
might change your life just from a random conversation with
your you know, neighbor.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Because I believe this. You know, everybody talks about what
what's your IQ and what's the IQ you're intelligent, emotion
and all that. I think we have like twenty different
areas of intelligence artistic, mechanical, you know, agility, intellectual, all
of that. I just think that this whole thing about
measuring someone's IQ and saying, okay, you're one oh five
(19:18):
or your T one twenty five. You see this with presidents,
who was the smartest president and all of that.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Yeah, I just think that's.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
A huge waste of time because I have no mechanical ability.
I have no musical ability, I have no artistic ability.
I know my limitations. Okay, I got a couple of
areas where I'm pretty good, but that's it. That's it.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yeah, But don't don't overlimit yourself either, Like you're also
a capacity. You have capacity to learn and tick up
new things. And even if you don't become the best
at you know, being a woodworker or an artist, you
can still gain something from the active trying it out,
like enjoying the process.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
And you know, learning.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
So don't get yourself out either.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
I would say I.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Also think I get what you're saying, yeah, but I
also think that a lot of us who are overly
formally educated. I'm a lawyer as well as a practicing
journalist for many years, and a lot of my colleagues
I sense that they look down at the blue collar person.
I'm somebody who really believes in vocational schools. Not everybody
(20:20):
is wired to do four years as in college. And
that is also the IQ thing going on there, and again,
I'd probably love to talk to you about it more
because I think that we need to value different people
for different things. I mean, when you need a plumber,
you need a plumber. Don't tell me you don't need
(20:45):
an archaeology major. You need a plumber.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
And I think that's that's the strength of the society
will live in right that we have, you know, such
diversity of talents, but also ways of hopefully training them
to get the best that we can, so we could
rely on each other to cover stuff that I don't
know how to do or I don't know anything about, right,
And that's you know, something that we need to keep
in mind, I think, and being intellectually humble makes it
(21:12):
more easy.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
To accept that.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Oh yeah, I don't know how to you know, like
stop my toilet from overflowing. I need someone else who
can do this faster, keeper and all that.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, you might have two or three degrees the other thing.
And I'm going to be real quick with you that
I'm a big believer in and I'm so excited to
talk to you because this is an area that I've
never spent a lot of time on my show. I
do a lot of politics and current events, but this
is stuff that really gets me going. I am a
firm believer in going back to that airplane ride. I'm
(21:41):
a firm believer with the six degrees of separation that
if you and I talk, you know, on an hour flight, somehow,
some way through six degrees of separation, we'll have some connection.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Yeah, there's there's some interesting research. I think, like when
people are modeling social networks, basically you know how people
arennected with each other, and I think one of the
theories is like this. I think it's called the small
world hypothesis, where you know, you have a few people
who just know a lot of people, and then you
know it's like highways in across the country, you have
(22:14):
these main highways where you can connect and then you
find smaller connections, like as you get closer and closer.
So I'm sure if we talked like we would I
went to school in Boston. I shouldn't say that because
I went to Harvard and people would hate me for
saying near Boston. But like, I'm sure you like really okay,
(22:35):
so maybe it's it's I know what Harvard is, Richard.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I really enjoyed this conversation, and I'm sure that i'd
love to have you back that I'm going to start
to follow you st.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yeah, I love this is a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Thank you very much. It was really enjoyable. We'll talk again,
Richard Seema uh brain matter in the Washington Post. Check
them out and there was no such thing as Queen
Shattuck or Murphy's last Ride. Thanks so much, Richard. We
got to take a break for the news at the
bottom of the hour. We always do that. You know,
(23:13):
when I get a great guest like Richard, I go
a little longer. I apologize. But we're gonna have another
great guest coming up, Nicol Maley. He's gonna tell us
about all the varieties of food at the Big E
got to find out how much weight he gained, and
we will talk with him right after the break here
on Nightside and right after.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
The news You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
This is the time of year, as I think everyone
knows when they have the Big E, the Big Exhibition,
I guess is what it stands for out in Springfield.
I think it might be West Springfield technically, if it
doesn't matter. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about.
And one of the big attractions of the Big E
is food, lots of food, different type food. I'm delighted
(24:01):
to welcome Nick O'Malley, who's with Mass Live. And Nick,
you apparently ate your way through the Big EE this year.
How many different foods did you sample?
Speaker 6 (24:14):
Well, on this most recent trip, I tried thirteen different
food There were a couple of drinks mixed in, so
you used to say eleven thirteen, but a whole lot.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, I'm just looking at your article here out of
Mass Live, and is the Biggie? Is it West Springfield
or Springfield proper?
Speaker 6 (24:33):
It is West Springfield, Okay, it's good.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
It's somebody that was buried in my mind, okay, and
it's been around for a long time. So you got
the quad Father burger. Why would you even try to
eat that? I mean it's four burgers and bacon and
all sorts of other stuff.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
I mean it's kind of like a mount everest of
meat and cheese and buns. You gotta conquer it because
it's there.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Ye apsolutely you know something that is. That's a clear explanation.
And I can understand that. Did you get through the
whole thing?
Speaker 6 (25:03):
Not quite through the whole thing. There was a lot
of foods in one day and a lot of steps
to get through, so you got to try and balance
it so they're not you know, taking me out on
a forklift when I'm done.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
No, no, no, absolutely. I mean you know, if you're
if you're a baseball pitcher and you just throw fastballs
all day, you know by the third or fourth inning,
they're gonna they're gonna be on you. You got to mix
it up. So you mixed it up a lot. The
Freedo pie that's fifteen dollars. I hope you were on
an expense account here, by the way.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
I hope we all make it work.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Listen, Yeah, okay, we don't have to know for tax
purposes the irs might be listening. You know what I'm saying. Listen,
let me go past that. I would draw that question. Okay,
there was one here that the stick this was, This
is one that I would be interested in. A stick
of s'mores smoked bacon candy. You couldn't put four words
(25:55):
that would that would make me my mouth water? Well
for better words than these moores smoked bacon candy. How
good was that?
Speaker 6 (26:05):
It was really good? Listen, I'm a big fan of bacon.
I'm a big fan of candying that bacon and adding
a little extra, with a little extra, the marshmallow, that chocolate,
the Graham cracker. It's like all smoky and sweet, delicious.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Heaven, heaven, heaven. Okay, let's look at a couple of
others here. Mashed potato fries. Why would why would you
need mashed potato fries? What's regular fries are? Okay? What
you find what's the advantage of mashing the potato up
and then making.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
A fry fry? You know?
Speaker 6 (26:40):
Looking around at all these like crazy foods I'm looking
at like poutine and chili cheese fries and all these
crazy things, and really it's just a lot of like
stuff covering up the potato. And that's what that's what
this does. It takes a crazy topping something that you
wouldn't think of. It's creative and it's fun, and it
doubles up and celebrate. It's a potato, really doubles down
(27:01):
on the flavor.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I like that one. Here's one that's interesting, The Big Sexy. Now, people,
the Big Ee is still open for a while. So
if you're doing nothing this weekend and you want to,
you know, increase your choleresterol, go to the Bigie and
try any and all of these foods. The Big Sexy
from the Broccoli bar behind the Very Want building. You
give people exact locations, which is don't you just put
(27:25):
it in your GPS and you're there. It's fifteen dollars
for small in eighteen for large. Why would you do
with small when the large is only three dollars more right?
Speaker 6 (27:36):
That was my exact thought. I mean it's called the
Big Sexy. I'm not going to get the small version
of it. I mean, there's a very nice man dressed
up in a broccoli costume making it for me. I
gotta go all out.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Oh my god, absolutely, what was the faith. What was
the best thing that you would recommend here? You got
some a cup of pretzel beer with a self car
with a salt caramel rim what what is the top
thing you would recommend? Would it be the quad Father?
Speaker 6 (28:07):
The quad Father was a fun experience, It wasn't the
best tasting thing. And I go every year, so there's
stuff that returns that I think is like gonna be
a better pick for most folks. Like, one of my
favorite things to recommend is something called a barbecue Sunday,
which isn't ice cream. It's all a bunch of like
(28:28):
barbecue fixings of a corn bread, big beans, coal slaw,
mashed potatoes, and it's sort of piled up on like
a parfe and they put a cherry tomato on top
of the mashed potato whiped cream, so it looks like
a Sunday. But it's super fun to eat.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Sure, by the way. It interesting enough. And with some
of the finest French restaurants in Paris, you there, and
then there was one that you had here which I
don't think you liked particularly, was this the the deep
fried devil Eggs, in which.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
Oh, I'm a big fan of the deep fried devil
egg you did.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Okay, then what is the one here says the sensation
of carrying a bowling ball of burger and eggs in
your stomach is not a great one.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
I mean, listen, I I fully endorse ordering a nice
order of deep fried devil eggs. What I don't endorse
is doing that immediately after eating the quad Father, because
that's what I did.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You have to digest something before you can fully enjoy
the other. I get that. I get that.
Speaker 6 (29:32):
Yes, I was treading the correct path. I just wasn't
taking the taking my time.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, No, well you were. You were out there on
a mission to help all of us, which we have
to respect and frankly acknowledge. And I just want to
thank you for coming. When you weighed yourself a couple
of days later, it's just curious were you able to
you know, did you did you? Did you pick up
a couple of pounds on the.
Speaker 6 (29:57):
Scale and maybe, But the news about the big ee
is that everything sort of spread out. I had one
of the GPS trackers on my phone. I ended up
walking five miles that day, so you know, offset the
little bit. Yeah, definitely, eating a lot of spinach the
next day though.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
This was a lot of fun and you're great sport,
Nic O'Malley giving us a tour of food tour at
the Big Easy. And of course you can go read
the article. It's it's a very well written and fun
piece and this is one that should be in your your, your, your,
your scrap book of This is a great piece. It
really is. So the biggie in mass Life by Nick O'Malley.
(30:40):
Please check it out, everybody. It's it's fun to talk about,
but it's even more fun to read. Thanks very much, Nick.
Speaker 6 (30:45):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
All Right, when we get back, we're going to explain
the big story yesterday, the fed Rake cut. The stock
market had a very nice day to day. So we're
going to be talking with Bill Dendy, uh coming back
on the other side, and you're going to be able
to go to work tomorrow and explain the implications of
the big rate the long awaited rate cut with financial
(31:09):
strategist Bill Dendy from Raymond James coming back.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
On night Side Now back to Dan ray Live from
the Window World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Well, yesterday the Fed cut interest rates by a half
a percentage point and with us to explain the implications
of that is Bill Dendy builds a financial strategist with
Raymond James. It was a long time coming, and I
know you're teaching a class tonight, so I'm only going
to keep you about six or seven minutes. Bill Dendy,
(31:43):
Welcome to Nightside in Boston. How are you hey?
Speaker 5 (31:45):
It's great to be with you. And it was kind
of like the Fed was teasing us for a long time,
so they're going to lower those rates and finally did
they gave us a lot extra bonus.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well, the market had a great day to day, I
mean a big day to day, but yes, the day
when the rates were lowered, it wasn't a great day
for the market. Why the delayed reaction today, Let's talk
about that first real quickly. What was this did Did
the traders wake up today and say, you know, they
really did cut the faces points yesterday? Was that what happened?
Speaker 5 (32:15):
There was a lot of doubt when they saw a
bigger than expected brake cut, saying what does the SPED
know about the economy that we don't know? And of
course Jerome came out and said none, this is just
based upon our data and the things are good in
the economy, but we've leave inflations under control. And I
think enough people said, well, don't fight the Fed.
Speaker 6 (32:35):
They don't lie.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
They said they're going to lower rates. They did, and
rates are expected to continue to be lowered unless inflation
should rear back up. We would expect the Fed to
continue to lower rates for the next twelve to twenty
four months. And that's very positive the market. So we
got that boost today.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, and it Pow sort of looks like a FED chairman.
I mean, I think he does instill confidence in people
no matter what he does. Kind of he's able to
carry it off. You know, he looks, he looks the part.
So the impact for the average person with the rate cut,
what's that going to mean? Obviously hopefully the amount of
(33:15):
money that you're going to have to spend that a
mortgage is going to go down. Give us a couple
of the highlights so people can make it understandable to
the people who are listening tonight who maybe get lost
in some of the terminology.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
Well, mortgage rates have already come down about a percent
and a half from their highs just a few months ago,
and so that redooced mortgage rate of a percent and
a half means that if you're buying a four hundred
thousand dollars home, Okay, that may not be enough home
for some folks, but at four hundred thousand dollars home,
you're saving four dollars a month on payments. Well, that's
(33:49):
phenomenal because for a lot of people there's low interest rates,
they can get more home for the dollars. They spent
less money going for the interest, more going for the home.
And so there were a lot of folks who were
sidelined as interest rates were so high that are feeling like, well,
maybe they can now look at getting into the market
and buying that home. Same thing for new and used
(34:10):
cars and credit card debt. It might not come down
real fast. People will probably saved a few dollars a month.
But again this is a sign of things to come,
because the federal really has one cut and stops. They're
going to cut, maybe pauls if inflation comes back, but
the hope is that they continue to cut and we
end up by the end of twenty twenty five being
(34:33):
down about another two percent from where we are today,
and that can make a significant difference for people across
the board now.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
As rates come down. Mortgage rates come down, one of
the things that a lot of people who were holding
onto their homes, they wanted to put them on the market,
but they didn't want to trade a really nice mortgage
rate which they might have had six or seven years
ago when it was three and a half percent for
a six and a half percent mortgage. So that means
more more houses are going to come on the market,
(35:02):
which you would think greater supply would lower the cost,
but that's also means more people are going to come
into the market. So you might save on the mortgage rate,
but that four hundred thousand dollars house might get more
expensive in the next month or two as the market
develops right along.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
That's an interesting point because what we'll probably see now
persons on their home, they may be buying another home.
So that's a kind of a wash there as far
as they sell, So you've got to make inature house
in the market, but they're buying, so you have another
demand on the market, so they're kind of offsetting. But
the interesting thing is for those who've been waiting that
(35:41):
suddenly start going shopping to buy their new houses. All
that excitement to go ahead and take advantage of this
might actually cause the return of the thing that the
Fed was all about getting rid of. That's inflation, because
all that extra demand can be inflationary if you had to.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Everybody tries to point back and say, well, were where
were we in this the situation we find ourselves in
with the rates coming down and the housing market probably
loosening up. When did we last experience this sort of
trend or this phenomenon. How could we relate to this
(36:22):
if we were looking to learn from the past.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Well, it's kind of interesting looking at the last time
the Fed cut rates was in March or twenty twenty
during the pandemic, and that was because the whole world
shut down and they were trying to stimulate the economy.
The last time they cut rates a whole half a
percent at one time was two thousand and eight during
(36:46):
the Great Recession because economy had just about died on
us and they were trying to stimulate the economy. This time,
they're cutting a half a percent, not trying to stimulate
the economy, but trying to take the rates back to
a more I guess they put it normalized level, so
they're gonna want to reduce the rates, and they're gonna
want to make sure they're not doing it too quickly
(37:08):
and pouring gasoline on the fire that's already burning as
high as we wanted to burn.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
So we have to come back quite quite a ways
to find an equivalent combination of factors. Obviously, twenty twenty
was an anomaly. Two thousand and eight was an anomaly
bad situations to cut the raids to get the market
going up, but to kind of slow it down for
the soft so called soft landing. Maybe we haven't seen
(37:34):
that in twenty or thirty years. A rate cut to
effectuate that result exactly.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
That hopes we can nicely do this without too much
in place in coming back, But you know, it's the
markets responded pretty quickly. Interest rates fell in anticipation of
the rate cut, and they fell some more after the
rate cut. People who have stock market investments and bond
market investments saw those go up, And you know it,
(38:07):
what's good for the investors who already have those things
might not be so good. You know it's cutting rates
is great if you're a borrower, and it's great if
you were already in the stock or bond market. But
it's not so great if you were living on your
fixed income, if you were getting by on your CD
and bond income, and you have these things come and do.
(38:27):
Now you're not getting the same rate we were getting
last year. And so for all retire are like, gosh,
this isn't a benefit to us.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Social Security beneficiaries that have suggested that you're going to
see a two percent cola next year. There was a
Cohler a couple of years ago as much as nine percent.
So you have people on a fixed income not going
to help them. Bill Denny, you've explained it very well.
You with Raymond James, financial strategist, big company, and I
know you're teaching a class tonight and I was, I
(38:55):
promised to get you out in ten minutes, and I
think I've met that that that commitment. Thank you so
much for wonderful You're great lead. You have a pleasure
if you love to have you back. Thank you very much,
thank you, thank you very welcome. When we get back,
we're going to talk about what went on up at
Susan Baranowski. It was an ugly scene. Correction officers were hurt.
(39:17):
We will have reaction from Governor Heally and we'll also
talk with Republican State Senator Durant. Peter Durant, This was
an ugly scene out there a little over twenty four
hours ago. Dan Rayo Knightside back after the nine o'clock
news
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thank you very much to call. I want our audience
to know for sure that they will be well served
by us tonight. This program will be much more exciting,
much more satisfying, and much more informative than any football
game anywhere in the United States of America tonight. And
I wasn't sure what Nicole was talking about, but don't
even worry about that game, because it matters. Not. What
(00:29):
matters is all the great guests we have for you
here on Nightside. My name is Dan Ray, and I
will take you all the way until midnight, and we
will talk with some great guests in the first hour,
and we'll talk later on tonight with the wz car
guys from ten until midnight, which will give you an
opportunity to get all of your automotive questions answered. And
(00:50):
then we're going at nine o'clock talk about that horrific
attack that some of the guards up at the state
prison in Lancaster, Massachusetts were objected to last night. We'll
get to all of that, but first I want to
remind you that Rob Brooks is back in the control
room and he will take care of you when we
do get time to take phone calls. There are no
(01:11):
phone calls during the first hour, however, and the reason
for that is we have four great guests. We're going
to start off with Professor John Kelly. He is a
professor at Endicott College, which happens to be one of
my favorite colleges I think the most beautiful college campus
in maybe all of the country, never mind certainly here
(01:32):
in New England. Professor John Kelly, Welcome to Nightside.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
How are you, hi, Dan, I'm very well, Thank you
very much. That's a great I agree with you about
our campus, a beautiful, beautiful place.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, it's also you know President Richard Wiley, or Dick
Wiley as we knew him. I was very close with
Professor Wiley actually delivered the commencement address at Endicott College
in two thousand and nine. Yes, and I you know,
I've been there on the campus many times. We've done
some talk the votes up there during election seasons pre COVID, Yes, absolutely,
(02:06):
gathered together unmasked. But so you're a psychology professor up
there and you have been there, Rob tells me for
close to a couple of decades. So if I've met
you at some point on campus.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I've seen you only you know in the audience. We
have not personally met before. But yeah, it's great to
meet you teleponically anyway.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Absolutely, So you are going to explain to us something
called the no cibo effect. It's sort of the opposite
of the plus ebo effect. You were quoted very prominently
in an article in the Washington Post about a month
and a half ago. And I think everybody knows what
(02:49):
a placebo is. If why don't you give us the
easy definition.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Of a placebo.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Because I think everyone knows what a placebo is, and
I think that will set up the explanation of the
no cebo very well if you don't.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Mind, well, sure, I mean, placebo really is just any
kind of treatment it can be. Usually people think of
it as a pill with really no active ingredient. It
could have sugar in it. More often it has cellulocin
itch or something very inert that is used often in
randomized control trials to determine whether the real drug actually
works better than what would happen if the person takes
(03:27):
the drug and has positive expectancies and expecting to do
well even though they're not getting a real drug they
think they might be, and they often show dramatic improvement.
So that's a placebo effect essentially, and so it's.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
All in the mind, it's not within the physical system.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Well, that's very interesting that you say. I mean that's
the way we kind of think about it. The way
I just describe it, it sounds like it's sort of
all in your head, which makes one think, oh, it's
not a real phenomenon. It's kind of fague and if
it's for a period of time. That was the way
it was thought about, But there has been a lot
of research to show that there are real physic theological
changes that occur for people. And if you think about it,
I think psychology, yes, it's something's happening in the mind.
(04:06):
But the mind is, you know, is a part of
the brain, a part of the body, so it's all connected,
and so if you have a feel like you're doing better,
there are actual physiological changes.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Sure, Okay, So a no Sebel effect is the flip
side of it. This is not something that happens in
regularly scheduled tests, but this is something that some of
us go through. And why don't you explain it? What
the no Sebel effect.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Is sure, and I would argue that we all experience
this in one way or the other, both no cibo
and placebo effects. I also will just say, just to
preface this, that not only could this occur in reference
to an inert treatment, you know, a sugar pill, but
it can also occur with real treatments. That real treatments
could be the effects of them, could be increased or
(04:55):
decreased through psychological mechanisms. But anyway, the no sebo effect,
some people think about it as sort of the dark
side of the placebo, the evil twin of placebo, And
it's basically just the notion that if you take a treatment,
even if it's a placebo, but even if it's a
real treatment, and you hear about some negative side effects,
that you may experience those side effects, maybe because the
(05:19):
drugs causing it, but the no cbo effect would because
of this sort of mind body situation where you are
thinking about you have a negative expectancy, and that produces
the symptoms that we call the no cibo effect.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So this to me shows pretty clearly how powerful our
minds are and how we can be I mean, some
of us suffer from how closely Is this related to
just people who are generally more anxious than other people.
I don't know if there's been a study done, is
there a correlation there.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, there's been a lot of search for who is
the placebo responder, who is a no CIBO responder, And
I would say, I'm sure that there's their variabilities and
this sort of thing. But I think let me give
an example of what you could consider a no CBO
effect in a sense, Like an example of this would
be if you are exercising. You know, it's hard for
people sometimes they're working out, and if they're staring at
(06:14):
the clock, you know, waiting for it to be over,
it's much more painful than if you distract yourself. If
you're paying attention to a movie that's very engaging, the
pain seems like it's less than it would otherwise be,
even though you're experiencing the exact same sort of physiological challenge.
So our mind has an effect, you know, depending on
whether we're focusing on the pain.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
You know, it's funny. I probably must be the exception
to the rule because when I work out and I'm
an elliptical guys, you stop eventually running and pounding knees
and ankles, and you get to the elliptical, which is
a great machine. I love the mathematics of the elliptical
because I don't know if you're an elliptical guy yourself,
but I.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Have used them quite a bit. I'm similarly to you.
No more running and all stationary bike, ellipticals, that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
That's right. So, but but what I try to do is, Okay,
what's my projection. I've gone, you know, ten minutes here,
I'm gonna go twenty five, I'm gonna go thirty and
when I change and I move the resistance up or whatever. Okay,
how many? How many can I do more calories during
this five minute period? All of that, and it's my
(07:23):
mind stays active. I don't, you know, I don't put
your plugs in. I don't. I don't watch a movie,
you know, just the gym that I work out, and
it's a small gym, and there's no there's no TVs,
there's no movies. So I keep my mind active, which
helps the time go more quickly. But I do it
by doing mental mathematical gymnastics, which.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, and you're but your your focus then is on
the mental mathematical gymnastics, right, not on the pain itself.
You're and in fact, you're you're kind of almost wanting
to put yourself through more pain to achieve something. It's
like a runner, who's how do they, you know, keep going? Well,
they have this goal in mind and their mind is
focused on this and there it doesn't you know, the
example of going and not thinking about it all, Like
(08:08):
you know, a movie is one way to distract yourself
or at least turn your attention edit to a different way.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, yeah, well, look, it's interesting. I didn't I had
never heard of the nosibo effect. Based upon my conversation
with you, this is an effect that's not new. It's
been apparently around for a while, but this is the
first big article that I've ever read on it. And
you were quoted prominently in the Washington Post, and you've
(08:36):
explained it really well for me and for my audience,
and so thank you very much. And it's always great
to reconnect with Entercot College, which has the best in
addition to the best landscape and views of the Atlantic Ocean,
it also has the single best college student cafeteria, and
I've been to a lot of them.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Of any truly astounding.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yes, and that, of course that is the part of
the legacy of doctor Wiley.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Absolutely a wonderful person. Yes, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well I look, next time i'm up that way, I'll stop.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I'll look for you. I'll make a point to shake
your hand, come up to you. Thank you very much
for I had.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
An uncle named John Kelly, so we may somehow be
related to you.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
By the way, I think everyone has an uncle named
John Kelly.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
That's true. In this neck of the woods, it's fairly common.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
All right, thank you so much, professor.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
You're welcome. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I have a great night. Okay, So we were talking
about the no seeble effect. Well we're going to kind
of stay in the in the mind a little bit.
We're going to talk with Richard Sema. He's a neuroscientist.
We're getting pretty pretty psychological tonight here, a neuroscientist turned
science journalist who writes the Brain Matters column for the
(09:53):
Washington Post. So we're sticking with the Washington Post tonight,
and he's going to talk about intellectual humility is for
learning and getting along with others. I like that. We'll
talk to him right after this quick break here on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Okay, so we talked about the no Seebele effect with
Professor John Kelly of Endicott College. We now are delighted
to welcome to the Nightside microphone Richard Seema. He's a
neuroscientist turned science journalist who writes the Brain Matters column
for The Washington Post. And intellectual humility is good for
(10:34):
learning and getting along with others. I don't think anyone
would argue with that, but let's give it a shot. Hi, Hi, Richard,
how are you tonight?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Doing well?
Speaker 5 (10:44):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I'm doing great. So intellectual humility, it sounds like a
good thing to have, and I think it is. I
read this column. Explain to us how you get it?
What percentages of people have any of it? And to
have some of it? How do you keep it in
this day and age.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, I mean, it's basically the acknowledgment that you know,
no one, including ourselves, knows everything. We have limits to
our knowledge or even our deepest hell beliefs can be valuable.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
And just being.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Open to the fact that you know other people might
know some things that you don't or that things that
you believe maybe wrong. I think it's hard to.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
You mean both you mean that both you and I
are are fallible.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate, you know, But maybe I'm
wrong about that. Maybe you aren't valuable, very very likely.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, here's my ideal, Richard. I get to do a
talk show four five nights away, four hours a night,
and when I make a mistake on the show, I
go out of my way fact particularly a factual mistake.
I go out and to acknowledge it. I think that's
really healthy.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Yeah, I agree, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I just think that it's a good idea. It's tougher,
I think when you're in personal relationships. So let's let's
talk about, you know, factual fallibility and then which is
pretty fine if you know, if you mentioned to me
or I mentioned to you that that I'm delighted that
we have forty eight states, and I have forgotten about
(12:19):
the last time I look it up, it's easier to say,
you know, Richie, you were right, I forgot. But what
do you do? How do you develop this when you're
in a contentious conversation. If idea, say about politics, or
maybe a personal matter with a member of your family.
How how how do you back out of it gracefully?
Speaker 4 (12:41):
What's the best I think? Yeah, I spoke with a
bunch of experts who study intellectual humility, and you know,
they told me that basically, it's it's it's helpful because
it keeps you open to other people's perspectives. You're more
likely to be empathetic to the fact that others have
maybe different values or different things that you know they
(13:01):
find important to believe in. And yeah, this topic of
you know, what happens in a politically contentious environment or conversation,
which is very common these days, is like part of
it is keeping in mind what your goal is for
this conversation, Like is it about proving yourself right and
you know, dominating another person in conversation or is it like, oh,
(13:24):
you know, you're a family member that I still care about,
even if we don't see eye to eye on any
like something that's important to both of us. But you know,
I think what intellectual humility can give us is you
don't go into a conversation like already you know, you know,
set against someone like you you may believe you're right
and you may have many reasons or any really good reasons,
(13:47):
but you know you can, you know, be open to
that there's something that you might miss. It doesn't mean
you have to change your mind, but means you have
to at least give them an opportunity to not you know,
just come in like swinging with all your rhetoric arguments.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, commit commit like and there's dare I say, like
Hal Colgan?
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Yeah, well I guess for Cogan that's your job and
you can do it in that context. But yeah, like
you know, take a moment where like what what do
you want out of this? Like, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
That Richard, you sound like a really reasonable guy. I
like to think you're fairly reasonable, but you sound much
more reasonable than do you actually you the column, the
article that you wrote was fascinating. Do you have you
adopted that in your own life? I mean, and I'm
(14:46):
not trying to be a wise guy when I asked.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
That question, No, no, no, I think you've got to come.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
To something like that. Naturally, don't you would you agree
or no?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Well?
Speaker 4 (14:55):
I think what's interesting is the research shows that yeah,
you know, people are on a spectrum of how likely
there are to be intill actually humble, but for different topics,
like if you're looking at religion versus science, or you know,
culture like best sports team. You know, people vary, right,
Like some things, it's very easy to you know, acknowledge that,
(15:17):
you know, the Boston Red Sox are, you know, like
they're great, but maybe they're not the best. And but
that's harder for other people knowledge. I know, I know,
I know, I did no, no, no. But but that's
the thing, right, It's like there's certain places that we
you know, maybe more susceptible to you know, not being
(15:42):
open to other perspectives, but you know, even just keeping
like the door is slightly cracked open.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You know what I love. I love the piece, but
I loved the paragraph. And you probably can anticipate what
I'm going to say to you. We're talking about it.
A study in twenty nineteen of almost what almost twelve
hundred subjects and one of the experiments I'm quoting from
(16:08):
your column here so and acknowledging you had. One experiment
asked participants to rake their familiarities with pieces of general knowledge,
for example Napoleon. Crucially, however, in the experiment they also
mixed in fictitious items, for example, Queen Shattuck Murphy's last ride. Yeah,
so they were people old Murphy's last ride. I learned
(16:32):
about that in the seventh grade. That's that's brilliant. And
so there were people who actually were claiming that they
were familiar with, you know, Queen Shaddock who never existed.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
That is not yeah person, yeah and no, And like
the study basically was fine name that, Yeah, you are
not only are people who rated to be were rated
to be more intellectually humble, like more knowledgeable about real things,
but they were less likely to overclaim that they knew
something that you know is fictitious. And you know, I
(17:08):
think that's important because it also opens us to learning
about new things or more curious, but also maybe more
discerning about how you process information. Just keeping yourself open
to yeah, the fact that you don't know everything. You'll
always encounter new stuff, and you know, it's it's up
to us to be like mindful about you know, what
we know and what we believe.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I think that there was a quote from Albert Einstein,
and I don't know if this was a neat quote
or if this was a real quote, but it sounded
it sounded pretty good Ifstein reportedly said that he wasn't
especially intelligent, but he had an unending curiosity, which I thought,
is even if it's made up, is a It's a
great way to look at life, be a little humble
(17:50):
if Albert Einstein can say something like that. He said,
and I think curiosity is the uh is Now again
I'm little biased to because I happen to consider me
I'm really curious. That is a sign of intelligence, not
necessarily a high IQ per se. But I think people
(18:10):
who are intellectually curious are more interesting, uh and they
have a wider breath of knowledge. I mean, when you
sit on an airplane, Richard, and I sit next to you,
do you, like just put your headphones on or do
you start a conversation? Because I'm the conversation guy, I'm
going to say, hey, what's going on?
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Honestly depends if I'm to be honest, Like sometimes I
just need my own alone time. But yeah, Like, I mean,
that's the beauty of such a dast world as ours,
with so many different people with different experiences, right, Like
everyone can teach you something and you never know what
might change your life just from a random conversation with
your you know, neighbor.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Because I believe this. You know, everybody talks about what
what's your IQ and what's the IQ you're intelligent, emotion
and all that. I think we have like twenty different
areas of intelligence artistic, mechanical, you know, agility, intellectual, all
of that. I just think that this whole thing about
measuring someone's IQ and saying, okay, you're one oh five
(19:18):
or your T one twenty five. You see this with presidents,
who was the smartest president and all of that.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
Yeah, I just think that's.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
A huge waste of time because I have no mechanical ability.
I have no musical ability, I have no artistic ability.
I know my limitations. Okay, I got a couple of
areas where I'm pretty good, but that's it. That's it.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yeah, But don't don't overlimit yourself either, Like you're also
a capacity. You have capacity to learn and tick up
new things. And even if you don't become the best
at you know, being a woodworker or an artist, you
can still gain something from the active trying it out,
like enjoying the process.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
And you know, learning.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
So don't get yourself out either.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
I would say I.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Also think I get what you're saying, yeah, but I
also think that a lot of us who are overly
formally educated. I'm a lawyer as well as a practicing
journalist for many years, and a lot of my colleagues
I sense that they look down at the blue collar person.
I'm somebody who really believes in vocational schools. Not everybody
(20:20):
is wired to do four years as in college. And
that is also the IQ thing going on there, and again,
I'd probably love to talk to you about it more
because I think that we need to value different people
for different things. I mean, when you need a plumber,
you need a plumber. Don't tell me you don't need
(20:45):
an archaeology major. You need a plumber.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
And I think that's that's the strength of the society
will live in right that we have, you know, such
diversity of talents, but also ways of hopefully training them
to get the best that we can, so we could
rely on each other to cover stuff that I don't
know how to do or I don't know anything about, right,
And that's you know, something that we need to keep
in mind, I think, and being intellectually humble makes it
(21:12):
more easy.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
To accept that.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Oh yeah, I don't know how to you know, like
stop my toilet from overflowing. I need someone else who
can do this faster, keeper and all that.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, you might have two or three degrees the other thing.
And I'm going to be real quick with you that
I'm a big believer in and I'm so excited to
talk to you because this is an area that I've
never spent a lot of time on my show. I
do a lot of politics and current events, but this
is stuff that really gets me going. I am a
firm believer in going back to that airplane ride. I'm
(21:41):
a firm believer with the six degrees of separation that
if you and I talk, you know, on an hour flight, somehow,
some way through six degrees of separation, we'll have some connection.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Yeah, there's there's some interesting research. I think, like when
people are modeling social networks, basically you know how people
arennected with each other, and I think one of the
theories is like this. I think it's called the small
world hypothesis, where you know, you have a few people
who just know a lot of people, and then you
know it's like highways in across the country, you have
(22:14):
these main highways where you can connect and then you
find smaller connections, like as you get closer and closer.
So I'm sure if we talked like we would I
went to school in Boston. I shouldn't say that because
I went to Harvard and people would hate me for
saying near Boston. But like, I'm sure you like really okay,
(22:35):
so maybe it's it's I know what Harvard is, Richard.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I really enjoyed this conversation, and I'm sure that i'd
love to have you back that I'm going to start
to follow you st.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yeah, I love this is a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Thank you very much. It was really enjoyable. We'll talk again,
Richard Seema uh brain matter in the Washington Post. Check
them out and there was no such thing as Queen
Shattuck or Murphy's last Ride. Thanks so much, Richard. We
got to take a break for the news at the
bottom of the hour. We always do that. You know,
(23:13):
when I get a great guest like Richard, I go
a little longer. I apologize. But we're gonna have another
great guest coming up, Nicol Maley. He's gonna tell us
about all the varieties of food at the Big E
got to find out how much weight he gained, and
we will talk with him right after the break here
on Nightside and right after.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
The news You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
This is the time of year, as I think everyone
knows when they have the Big E, the Big Exhibition,
I guess is what it stands for out in Springfield.
I think it might be West Springfield technically, if it
doesn't matter. I think everyone knows what I'm talking about.
And one of the big attractions of the Big E
is food, lots of food, different type food. I'm delighted
(24:01):
to welcome Nick O'Malley, who's with Mass Live. And Nick,
you apparently ate your way through the Big EE this year.
How many different foods did you sample?
Speaker 6 (24:14):
Well, on this most recent trip, I tried thirteen different
food There were a couple of drinks mixed in, so
you used to say eleven thirteen, but a whole lot.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, I'm just looking at your article here out of
Mass Live, and is the Biggie? Is it West Springfield
or Springfield proper?
Speaker 6 (24:33):
It is West Springfield, Okay, it's good.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
It's somebody that was buried in my mind, okay, and
it's been around for a long time. So you got
the quad Father burger. Why would you even try to
eat that? I mean it's four burgers and bacon and
all sorts of other stuff.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
I mean it's kind of like a mount everest of
meat and cheese and buns. You gotta conquer it because
it's there.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Ye apsolutely you know something that is. That's a clear explanation.
And I can understand that. Did you get through the
whole thing?
Speaker 6 (25:03):
Not quite through the whole thing. There was a lot
of foods in one day and a lot of steps
to get through, so you got to try and balance
it so they're not you know, taking me out on
a forklift when I'm done.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
No, no, no, absolutely. I mean you know, if you're
if you're a baseball pitcher and you just throw fastballs
all day, you know by the third or fourth inning,
they're gonna they're gonna be on you. You got to mix
it up. So you mixed it up a lot. The
Freedo pie that's fifteen dollars. I hope you were on
an expense account here, by the way.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
I hope we all make it work.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Listen, Yeah, okay, we don't have to know for tax
purposes the irs might be listening. You know what I'm saying. Listen,
let me go past that. I would draw that question. Okay,
there was one here that the stick this was, This
is one that I would be interested in. A stick
of s'mores smoked bacon candy. You couldn't put four words
(25:55):
that would that would make me my mouth water? Well
for better words than these moores smoked bacon candy. How
good was that?
Speaker 6 (26:05):
It was really good? Listen, I'm a big fan of bacon.
I'm a big fan of candying that bacon and adding
a little extra, with a little extra, the marshmallow, that chocolate,
the Graham cracker. It's like all smoky and sweet, delicious.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Heaven, heaven, heaven. Okay, let's look at a couple of
others here. Mashed potato fries. Why would why would you
need mashed potato fries? What's regular fries are? Okay? What
you find what's the advantage of mashing the potato up
and then making.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
A fry fry? You know?
Speaker 6 (26:40):
Looking around at all these like crazy foods I'm looking
at like poutine and chili cheese fries and all these
crazy things, and really it's just a lot of like
stuff covering up the potato. And that's what that's what
this does. It takes a crazy topping something that you
wouldn't think of. It's creative and it's fun, and it
doubles up and celebrate. It's a potato, really doubles down
(27:01):
on the flavor.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I like that one. Here's one that's interesting, The Big Sexy. Now, people,
the Big Ee is still open for a while. So
if you're doing nothing this weekend and you want to,
you know, increase your choleresterol, go to the Bigie and
try any and all of these foods. The Big Sexy
from the Broccoli bar behind the Very Want building. You
give people exact locations, which is don't you just put
(27:25):
it in your GPS and you're there. It's fifteen dollars
for small in eighteen for large. Why would you do
with small when the large is only three dollars more right?
Speaker 6 (27:36):
That was my exact thought. I mean it's called the
Big Sexy. I'm not going to get the small version
of it. I mean, there's a very nice man dressed
up in a broccoli costume making it for me. I
gotta go all out.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Oh my god, absolutely, what was the faith. What was
the best thing that you would recommend here? You got
some a cup of pretzel beer with a self car
with a salt caramel rim what what is the top
thing you would recommend? Would it be the quad Father?
Speaker 6 (28:07):
The quad Father was a fun experience, It wasn't the
best tasting thing. And I go every year, so there's
stuff that returns that I think is like gonna be
a better pick for most folks. Like, one of my
favorite things to recommend is something called a barbecue Sunday,
which isn't ice cream. It's all a bunch of like
(28:28):
barbecue fixings of a corn bread, big beans, coal slaw,
mashed potatoes, and it's sort of piled up on like
a parfe and they put a cherry tomato on top
of the mashed potato whiped cream, so it looks like
a Sunday. But it's super fun to eat.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Sure, by the way. It interesting enough. And with some
of the finest French restaurants in Paris, you there, and
then there was one that you had here which I
don't think you liked particularly, was this the the deep
fried devil Eggs, in which.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
Oh, I'm a big fan of the deep fried devil
egg you did.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Okay, then what is the one here says the sensation
of carrying a bowling ball of burger and eggs in
your stomach is not a great one.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
I mean, listen, I I fully endorse ordering a nice
order of deep fried devil eggs. What I don't endorse
is doing that immediately after eating the quad Father, because
that's what I did.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You have to digest something before you can fully enjoy
the other. I get that. I get that.
Speaker 6 (29:32):
Yes, I was treading the correct path. I just wasn't
taking the taking my time.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, No, well you were. You were out there on
a mission to help all of us, which we have
to respect and frankly acknowledge. And I just want to
thank you for coming. When you weighed yourself a couple
of days later, it's just curious were you able to
you know, did you did you? Did you pick up
a couple of pounds on the.
Speaker 6 (29:57):
Scale and maybe, But the news about the big ee
is that everything sort of spread out. I had one
of the GPS trackers on my phone. I ended up
walking five miles that day, so you know, offset the
little bit. Yeah, definitely, eating a lot of spinach the
next day though.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
This was a lot of fun and you're great sport,
Nic O'Malley giving us a tour of food tour at
the Big Easy. And of course you can go read
the article. It's it's a very well written and fun
piece and this is one that should be in your your, your, your,
your scrap book of This is a great piece. It
really is. So the biggie in mass Life by Nick O'Malley.
(30:40):
Please check it out, everybody. It's it's fun to talk about,
but it's even more fun to read. Thanks very much, Nick.
Speaker 6 (30:45):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
All Right, when we get back, we're going to explain
the big story yesterday, the fed Rake cut. The stock
market had a very nice day to day. So we're
going to be talking with Bill Dendy, uh coming back
on the other side, and you're going to be able
to go to work tomorrow and explain the implications of
the big rate the long awaited rate cut with financial
(31:09):
strategist Bill Dendy from Raymond James coming back.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
On night Side Now back to Dan ray Live from
the Window World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Well, yesterday the Fed cut interest rates by a half
a percentage point and with us to explain the implications
of that is Bill Dendy builds a financial strategist with
Raymond James. It was a long time coming, and I
know you're teaching a class tonight, so I'm only going
to keep you about six or seven minutes. Bill Dendy,
(31:43):
Welcome to Nightside in Boston. How are you hey?
Speaker 5 (31:45):
It's great to be with you. And it was kind
of like the Fed was teasing us for a long time,
so they're going to lower those rates and finally did
they gave us a lot extra bonus.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well, the market had a great day to day, I
mean a big day to day, but yes, the day
when the rates were lowered, it wasn't a great day
for the market. Why the delayed reaction today, Let's talk
about that first real quickly. What was this did Did
the traders wake up today and say, you know, they
really did cut the faces points yesterday? Was that what happened?
Speaker 5 (32:15):
There was a lot of doubt when they saw a
bigger than expected brake cut, saying what does the SPED
know about the economy that we don't know? And of
course Jerome came out and said none, this is just
based upon our data and the things are good in
the economy, but we've leave inflations under control. And I
think enough people said, well, don't fight the Fed.
Speaker 6 (32:35):
They don't lie.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
They said they're going to lower rates. They did, and
rates are expected to continue to be lowered unless inflation
should rear back up. We would expect the Fed to
continue to lower rates for the next twelve to twenty
four months. And that's very positive the market. So we
got that boost today.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, and it Pow sort of looks like a FED chairman.
I mean, I think he does instill confidence in people
no matter what he does. Kind of he's able to
carry it off. You know, he looks, he looks the part.
So the impact for the average person with the rate cut,
what's that going to mean? Obviously hopefully the amount of
(33:15):
money that you're going to have to spend that a
mortgage is going to go down. Give us a couple
of the highlights so people can make it understandable to
the people who are listening tonight who maybe get lost
in some of the terminology.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
Well, mortgage rates have already come down about a percent
and a half from their highs just a few months ago,
and so that redooced mortgage rate of a percent and
a half means that if you're buying a four hundred
thousand dollars home, Okay, that may not be enough home
for some folks, but at four hundred thousand dollars home,
you're saving four dollars a month on payments. Well, that's
(33:49):
phenomenal because for a lot of people there's low interest rates,
they can get more home for the dollars. They spent
less money going for the interest, more going for the home.
And so there were a lot of folks who were
sidelined as interest rates were so high that are feeling like, well,
maybe they can now look at getting into the market
and buying that home. Same thing for new and used
(34:10):
cars and credit card debt. It might not come down
real fast. People will probably saved a few dollars a month.
But again this is a sign of things to come,
because the federal really has one cut and stops. They're
going to cut, maybe pauls if inflation comes back, but
the hope is that they continue to cut and we
end up by the end of twenty twenty five being
(34:33):
down about another two percent from where we are today,
and that can make a significant difference for people across
the board now.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
As rates come down. Mortgage rates come down, one of
the things that a lot of people who were holding
onto their homes, they wanted to put them on the market,
but they didn't want to trade a really nice mortgage
rate which they might have had six or seven years
ago when it was three and a half percent for
a six and a half percent mortgage. So that means
more more houses are going to come on the market,
(35:02):
which you would think greater supply would lower the cost,
but that's also means more people are going to come
into the market. So you might save on the mortgage rate,
but that four hundred thousand dollars house might get more
expensive in the next month or two as the market
develops right along.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
That's an interesting point because what we'll probably see now
persons on their home, they may be buying another home.
So that's a kind of a wash there as far
as they sell, So you've got to make inature house
in the market, but they're buying, so you have another
demand on the market, so they're kind of offsetting. But
the interesting thing is for those who've been waiting that
(35:41):
suddenly start going shopping to buy their new houses. All
that excitement to go ahead and take advantage of this
might actually cause the return of the thing that the
Fed was all about getting rid of. That's inflation, because
all that extra demand can be inflationary if you had to.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Everybody tries to point back and say, well, were where
were we in this the situation we find ourselves in
with the rates coming down and the housing market probably
loosening up. When did we last experience this sort of
trend or this phenomenon. How could we relate to this
(36:22):
if we were looking to learn from the past.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Well, it's kind of interesting looking at the last time
the Fed cut rates was in March or twenty twenty
during the pandemic, and that was because the whole world
shut down and they were trying to stimulate the economy.
The last time they cut rates a whole half a
percent at one time was two thousand and eight during
(36:46):
the Great Recession because economy had just about died on
us and they were trying to stimulate the economy. This time,
they're cutting a half a percent, not trying to stimulate
the economy, but trying to take the rates back to
a more I guess they put it normalized level, so
they're gonna want to reduce the rates, and they're gonna
want to make sure they're not doing it too quickly
(37:08):
and pouring gasoline on the fire that's already burning as
high as we wanted to burn.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
So we have to come back quite quite a ways
to find an equivalent combination of factors. Obviously, twenty twenty
was an anomaly. Two thousand and eight was an anomaly
bad situations to cut the raids to get the market
going up, but to kind of slow it down for
the soft so called soft landing. Maybe we haven't seen
(37:34):
that in twenty or thirty years. A rate cut to
effectuate that result exactly.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
That hopes we can nicely do this without too much
in place in coming back, But you know, it's the
markets responded pretty quickly. Interest rates fell in anticipation of
the rate cut, and they fell some more after the
rate cut. People who have stock market investments and bond
market investments saw those go up, And you know it,
(38:07):
what's good for the investors who already have those things
might not be so good. You know it's cutting rates
is great if you're a borrower, and it's great if
you were already in the stock or bond market. But
it's not so great if you were living on your
fixed income, if you were getting by on your CD
and bond income, and you have these things come and do.
(38:27):
Now you're not getting the same rate we were getting
last year. And so for all retire are like, gosh,
this isn't a benefit to us.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Social Security beneficiaries that have suggested that you're going to
see a two percent cola next year. There was a
Cohler a couple of years ago as much as nine percent.
So you have people on a fixed income not going
to help them. Bill Denny, you've explained it very well.
You with Raymond James, financial strategist, big company, and I
know you're teaching a class tonight and I was, I
(38:55):
promised to get you out in ten minutes, and I
think I've met that that that commitment. Thank you so
much for wonderful You're great lead. You have a pleasure
if you love to have you back. Thank you very much,
thank you, thank you very welcome. When we get back,
we're going to talk about what went on up at
Susan Baranowski. It was an ugly scene. Correction officers were hurt.
(39:17):
We will have reaction from Governor Heally and we'll also
talk with Republican State Senator Durant. Peter Durant, This was
an ugly scene out there a little over twenty four
hours ago. Dan Rayo Knightside back after the nine o'clock
news
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