October 3, 2024 • 41 mins
The National Students for Justice in Palestine is planning a nationwide 'Week of Rage' on college campuses, beginning on the one-year anniversary of Hamas’ Oct. 7th attack. The “Week of Rage” is also during the holiest days of the Jewish year, culminating with Yom Kippur on Oct. 11-12th. Jeff Robbins, former delegate to the United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva, joined to discuss how the Jewish community has their concerns over the “Week of Rage.”
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's with d Y.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm all right, welcome back everyone, and we're going from
an hour that was really a fun hour with Joeke
of State Leone to a much more serious issue, much
more serious topic. In the Boston Herald today there was
(00:24):
an article by Rick Sobe which talks about an effort
that is now underway by an organization called Students and
we can probably probably put question quotation markets around students,
but students for Justice in Palatine Palestine. This is at
(00:45):
a moment as we're approaching the anniversary of the horrific
October massacre of last October seventh, and this so called
week of rage, that's what they're calling it, a week
of age across college campuses, according to Rick Sobey, is
sickening those in the Jewish community. You can understand why
(01:08):
this week of rage will also bracket some of the
holy days of the Jewish calendar, which culminates next week
with Yam Kapor and has already started with Rashashana. If
you want to go to the website National Students for
Justice in Palestine, you'll see what I'm talking about and
(01:29):
some of the language that they use. I just want
to just touch on this quickly, and then I want
to have as many of you respond to this as possible.
They write, for over eleven months now, the Zionist entity
that's what they call Israel, with the backing of the
US and our universities, has committed a horrific assault in
the nearly two million Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip.
(01:51):
Since the start of this genocide, the people of Gaza
have continued to stand steadfast, resilient, and unwavering in the
face of these crimes. It is for them that we rise.
This is the statement in part from the National Students
for Justice and Palestine. Forgetting, of course, that Israel never
started this problem. This problem was started on October seventh
(02:14):
by himas joining us now is a longtime friend of
this program, a journalist, a lawyer in Boston with a
great law firm, Minskin Levin, a First Amendment specialist. Jeff Robbins, Jeff,
welcome back tonight's side. I'm happy you're here. I'm not
happy under the circumstances on which you're joining us tonight.
(02:35):
How are you this evening?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Dan? Thank you so much for having me in. More fundamentally,
thank you for the attention that you insist, persist in
focusing on this ananity, this moral depravity that we have
of people celebrating, celebrating the slaughter of innocence and actually
mocking the victims, victims who are victims of kidnapping, rape,
(03:00):
being blown apart, being executed at gunpoint, and all out
of a genocidal urged by a genocidal organization to slaughter Jews,
and supported amazingly by students who regard themselves as progressives
and as humanitarians. It beggars the imagination well.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Their slogan from the River to the Sea, Palestine will
be free, clearly, as Rick Sobey writes today, and as
the Anti Defamation League says in his column, is an
anti Semitic slogan. It calls for a Palestinian state, quoting
now from Rick Sobey's piece of the and the Boston Herald,
extending from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, territory
(03:46):
that includes the state of Israel, which would mean the
dismantling of the Jewish state. How can college students in
America be so naive to allow themselves to be really
pawns by this group that has, you know, their instincts,
If not their actions, certainly their instincts are terrorist. How
(04:10):
can so many college students allow themselves to be to
be used in this way as unwitting accomplices. I mean,
did they teach anything in high school and college today
about world history, about what happened you know, seventy or
eighty years ago, you know, eighty eighty five years ago
(04:31):
in Europe? What does none of this ring bells in
their heads. I just don't understand it. I mean, I
can understand where you can have people who are just
clearly anti Semitic, the the offspring of the far right
from a couple of generations ago, who have now fantastasized
(04:51):
over on the far left. But you see these these
crowds out in the street, Jeff, and it's like, what's
going to happen on college campus? Is in the next
few weeks? Next week? Actually?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah? Well, as you have before, you've posed the question,
the profound question, which is, how can people be sucked
up or gulled or basically dumbed down into embracing something
which is just antithetical to human decency. You've got a
(05:25):
group that has has its purpose annihilating Jews, that invades
another country, annihilates twelve hundred is only stopped eventually. They
tended to annihilate even more than twelve hundred. Rapes, People
blows them to pieces, kidnaps them, babies, toddlers, holds them
in tunnels. And you have to beg and plead to
(05:47):
have people who hold themselves out as humanitarians and as
progressives say, you know, that's just unequivocally outrageous and it
has to be stopped. And it's not enough to simply
say always real has the right to do itself, as
though you know that in and of itself means anything,
but that Israel has an obligation to prevent this from
happening again. And to look one step further, some of
(06:09):
these students, who you might imagine have the wit to
understand this, that what has happened here is not quote
unquote only to slaughter Jews, but to consign tens of
thousands of Palestinians to death, which is exactly what Hamas
sought to bring about and has brought about. It does
not take Einstein to understand how morally depraved this conduct was,
(06:34):
and how morally depraved it is to support it, or
embrace it, or whitewash it. And yet, as you point out,
that's the dilemma we have.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
My guest is Jeff Robbins. Jeff, as I said, is
a journalist, a syndicated columnist. Is columns up here once
a week in the Boston Herald, amongst other newspapers. He's
a lawyer, first amendment scholar with Minskin Levin, a representative
of the Clinton administration at the United Nations on the
(07:04):
whole questions a question of human rights. We see what's
going on. We saw what happened yesterday, one hundred and
eighty two hundred ballistic missiles fired in on Israel. If
Israel did not have the defense system that they have
and that they have built, if it were on fire
(07:24):
two hundred ballistic missiles in on any other country in
the Middle East, that country would have been obliterated. Thank
God that Israel has the Iron Dome and some other
ways in which most of these missiles were knocked down.
But I just if there are people out there who
(07:46):
are empathetic, I'd love to hear from you. And if
there are people out there who are just sick of it,
and I don't want to go through what we went
through last fall. It cost university presidents their jobs because
they had no backbone. They didn't even know how to
respond to questions that were asked of them in Congress.
These were college presidents. I hope, and I really mean that,
(08:11):
I hope that there is order maintained so that students
can go to classes. Jeff, you're a First Amendment scholar.
You represent people on First Amendment cases. These students, they
have the right to protest, but the protest always gets
to the point where a building is occupied, where Jewish
(08:32):
students are harassed, where Jewish students are prevented from actually
entering onto the campus that they have paid their tuition to.
Why is it that these college administrators don't understand there
is a difference between speech and action.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Well, for one thing, let's let's call a spade a spade.
There is a certain amount of gutlessness and fear that
pervades university administration buildings. They're afraid of students, they're afraid
of faculty.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
You have, for.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Example, the president of Brandeis Ron Leebwoods, who resigned a
couple of days ago after the faculty voted by a
narrow margin, by a ten vote margin, a no confidence resolution.
Why the no confidence resolution, apparently because he had expelled
Students for Justice in Palestine, when they had disrupted campus,
(09:21):
when they had vandalized the campus, when they had intimidated kids.
So you have faculty being just as witless in some
cases as the students are not all faculty but a
group of faculty, And so you have university halls and
college administrations petrified of blowback if they have the stones.
(09:48):
I think that's the first Amendment phrase, to stand up
and say no, you can't do that, you can't do that.
So there's been a wave of intimidation on campuses on
many levels. Jewish kids are intimidated. Non Jewish kids who
are who have an inkling that they want to stand
up for their Jewish friends and against this crap are intimidated.
(10:09):
You've got intimidation and university halls and it is purposeful
and frankly, Students for Justice in Palestine, as you point out,
you can put quotes around students, quotes around justice and
quotes around Palestine is an organization that has gotten very,
very effective at intimidating people. And that's this is where
the rubber meets the road. Whether or not people students
(10:31):
faculty Jewish non Jewish administrations, whether they stand up to
the intimidation or not. We're going to see whether that
happens this school year.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
When we get back, I want to talk a little
bit about the amount of financial support that many of
these universities are receiving from Middle Eastern countries and whether
or not that plays a role in their lack of
spine or their seeming lack of spine. My name is
Dan Ray. This is Nightside. I'd love to have you
(11:01):
join the conversation, whatever your point of view on this is,
because we need to talk about this, and that's why
we're doing this tonight. Tonight is Thursday. The anniversary Tonight
is Thursday, October third. The anniversary of what happened a
year ago will be on Monday, and it was timed
(11:23):
that way, I'm sure, by Hamas, to do it during
a period of time of reflection and prayer in Israel,
and here we have a year later. As opposed to
all of us memorializing and remembering those who were lost
and those who were still captive, Students for Justice and
(11:47):
Palace Design are going to try to turn it around
and turn the spotlight away from the real victims towards
what they claim a victims Palestinians who live in Gaza.
But those Palestinians have been placed in the line of fire.
They are basically being held against their will by Hamas
(12:08):
in Gaza. And you know, Hamas from a tactical point
of view, has been brilliant, but from a moral point
of view, absolutely corrupt. We'll be back on nightside if
you'd like to join the conversation from whatever point of view.
Six one, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty, six
one seven, nine, three one ten thirty and triple eight
nine to nine, ten thirty were back on night side
(12:30):
with my friend Jeff Robins, who has stood on the side.
And by the way, you know, Jeff and I disagree
on a lot of political things, but in this we
are united, okay, as every American should be united. Never again.
We are seeing the beginnings of something that we should
(12:51):
that we should denounce immediately, immediately and forcefully. And unfortunately
many people are quiet. They are they are averting their
stay or they were averting their eyes, and they are
nonetheless contributing to what could be could be a holocaust,
even worse, if it's possible, then what happened because there
(13:13):
were six million Jewish people who were killed by Hitler
Germany and his henchmen. This is a group of people
who want to eradicate a nation, a nation because they
happen to be Jewish. Back on Nightside after.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
This, Now back to Dan ray Mine from the Window World.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Night Side Studios on w b Z the news Radio,
back with Jeff Ross Robins. He used to work with
a guy named Jeff Ross for a long time ago.
I was the news director of w BZ TV. But
this is Jeff Robins, Boston attorney with Mince Levin, former
head of the Anti Defamation League here in New England,
(13:53):
a journalist and a student of Israel. He also teaches
courses in in different colleges, so at least one of
which I know of which need not be mentioned, but
it's an Avy League college. So we'll leave it right
like that. Let's go. We're talking about We're going to
talk about Israel and about what may be happening in
American college campuses in the weeks in this next week ahead.
(14:18):
They have said what they want to do, and generally,
when these radical groups say what they want to do,
they do exactly that Davis in San Antonio, Texas. Dave,
you first, this hour and nightsager.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Right ahead, Oh god, how you doing. You know, I'm
half Jewish, half black, and my father, my grandfather, when
he was over in this country, he parked his car
in front of a railroad car and left the home
note let the note home saying I'm worthboard Dad alive
(14:48):
because are the persecution that he suffered at that time.
I think that you got to you got to stop
talking giving those kids the attention that they're getting. Society
should metaphorically put a privacy sensor around that school, keep
(15:09):
their kids from going to that school, elect officials that
will limited export exchange students from attending that school, and
teach them a financial lesson.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Well, it's just not one school, Dave, Dave, it's just
not one school. This was on campuses across the country.
Uh you know from M I T.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Yeah, your your your ivy league and your elite thing,
your elite ones were ones where all the rich people
are there, not the majority. It's smart majority.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Let's have a conversation. Okay, okay, all right, it is.
There were campuses all over the country. Okay, including you're
far from the majority. Okay, you know what, Dave, let
me step aside. Let's let mister Robbins respond to you
and see if you can control yourself and agent a
conversation with him, because you're not able to gauge your
conversation with me. Go ahead, Jeff, good luck.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Well, Dan's obviously right, this is non isolated instance. It
kind of took on a wave across certain college campuses.
You're right that it wasn't all college campuses, but it's
it's it's kind of difficult to ignore something as profound
as what occurred. I think Dan is right, you know,
to the to the ninth power here, it is morally
(16:28):
depraved to celebrate the slaughter of civilians. It is morally
I guess my point is that, Dave, do me a favor.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You can interrupt me, but if you interrupt the guests,
you're going to walk the plank. So just listen to
what Jeff has to say and then comment. It's called
a conversation. You're going to enjoy it. Go ahead, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I understand the hope that you can kind of ignore
this and not pay attention to it, would that it
were so. I think the point is that it's so
profoundly morally depraved. It reflects so badly on our campuses
and on certain segments of our society, on basic decency,
that it's just very tough to ignore it, tough to
(17:14):
the point of impossible.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
I think, I agree with you, but you don't have
any law enforcement in this country that's going to do
anything to make them people regret what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Well, I mean, you know, you raise generally.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Jed Dave. He was starting to formulate.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Okay, wow, I haven't finished yet.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
A couple of things. A couple of things. I mean,
there is you know, beyond law enforcement. You can't apply
law enforcement to loathsome views. The more fundamental problem is
the loathsomeness of the views, the ignorance. I mean, I've
said often that I don't think a lot of these
(18:06):
students can tell you the difference between the Gaza strip
and the Louisiana purchase. So you've got an ignorance problem.
But as Dan points out, people have really been gulled
into a kind of moral witlessness that's really problematic, too problematic,
I agree with Dan, way too problematic to ignore. You
(18:26):
can't it's not a law enforcement problem. Really fundamentally it's
a problem much deeper than that.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
They're almost like useful idiots in the sense that they
apparently know nothing of history. They know nothing of World
War two and the events leading up to World War two.
They know nothing about the founding of the state of Israel.
They know nothing of what happened actually happened on October seventh.
But they're out there in the streets. So I don't know, Dave.
(18:54):
Let me give you in this conversation, final work. Go
right ahead.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I remember a conversation on DAAN that Morgan Freeman was
having with one of the prominent host hosts there, and
at the end of the conversation, the host said to him,
what do we do about all this racism here in
this country? And Morgan looked at him and said, stop
talking about him.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Okay, Dave, thank you very much for you call. Appreciate
your call. Maybe what we'll do is we'll stop talking
about it. I won't stop talking about it, but Dave
is welcome to stop talking about it as well. Jeff,
I don't think that's the answer to stop talking about it,
because if you ignore it, just like any sort of
a cancer, if you ignore it, it's only going to
metastasize further.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah, it's fanciful to hope you can ignore it. It's
it's way too entit and cancer, truthfully, is a pretty
good analogy. You just got this kind of you know,
it's it's cool to celebrate the slaughter of people. It's
okay to embrace that, to celebrate it, to you know,
to advocate for it, to embrace it, to whitewash it
(19:59):
for that's too fundamental problems to ignore.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I'm afraid, Jeff, I've never asked you this question before,
and I'll be really interested in what you how you answered,
not only as my friend, but also as a First
Amendment scholar. I believe that the horrors that were inflicted
on those innocent civilians last October seventh has never been
(20:23):
shown to the American people. It almost it gets sanitized.
I'm sure you have seen some of the videotape that
were taken by that that was taken by the terrorist
and made available. For some reason, the folks who have
run network newscasts have said, we don't want to show
(20:44):
this in its full horror to the American people, and
I understand that, But have we got to the point
where we need to kind of show people to get
their attention and maybe to make them truly understand how horrific,
how horror to think that that morning was.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Yeah, I think you're right. I just think, like I
know you do, that the moral failure, the moral frivolity
of this segment of the American left, to the American
purported left, it's so troublesome, it's so dangerous that you
(21:24):
have to try something to crack, you know, the conscience
of the you know, let's face it, the TikTok generation.
And therefore we're not left with anything, I think, other
than to try to show them what it is that occurred,
what was deliberately carried out, planned for months, if not years,
(21:44):
and that which these particular individuals on campuses or elsewhere
on the left, on the so called progressive side of things,
which is a phrase I can't understand in this context,
to try to crack the consciousness so basically people understand,
this is what they're getting behind when they say they're exhilarated,
when they say harmas is us, when they say we
(22:05):
are harmas, that's what they're getting behind.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I think you're right, exactly, and I don't know if
there's going to be a network. I mean, the network
could put up, hey, folks, get the kids out of
the room, or whatever they want. We're going to show
this in its full horror so you understand what we're
dealing with. I think that, for example, the American people
turned against the Vietnam War because the networks showed what
(22:33):
was going on in Vietnam. If they had sanitized that,
the war would have gone on longer. There would have
been more Americans who would have died. I just think
that sometimes you have to basically say it as it is,
tell it as it is, and maybe even show it
as it is. And we'll take a break. We've got
(22:54):
a newscast coming up, and we get back. We'll get
to more phone calls. I'd love to have some of
you respond to that. I think that I really think
that is necessary. It's one thing to say, oh, children
will be headed and women were raped and grandparents were
shot and killed in front of the grandchildren. It's something
quite else to show it, to show it and it's
(23:15):
all it's horror. You can use it so that the
faces are not shown. Okay, you can do some editing.
I know that you can do that. Back on Nightside,
right after this if you're on the night Side with
Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio, Oh, we will
be continuing that conversation. Jeff Robbins Boston Herald, a syndicated columnist,
(23:40):
also a lawyer of First Amendment lawyer with a mince
Levin here in Boston, very powerful law firm. Join the conversation,
and if you disagree with what we're saying, and I'd
love to find out here from some of you. I
think the American public is able to We should have
been shown what actually happened, and we got a sanitize version.
(24:02):
We got verbal descriptions that that children were slaughtered in
homes and that people were hand grenades were thrown into
you know, it was like very personal killing. So I'll
be interesting if people agree with that or not. As
I said, Jeff, I think it can be sanitized to
the point we don't have to show the image of
the person's face, but to show somebody, you know, on
(24:23):
the ground who has lost a limb. I think the
horror of this, we think about this as like what
we see on television. You know, the bad guy gets
shot and he falls over, and we know that's not real.
I don't know if we can differentiate as a country
anymore the amount of slaughter that we see in the
(24:44):
movies and on television with what is actual slaughtered. Does that?
Am I making any sense to you on that?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, very much so. And you're harkening back to the
images of Vietnam and the depth in Vietnam and the effect,
for example, the coverage of the tet offensive nineteen sixty
eight had on America is a very apt analogy. I
think you're right that words like blowing apart and raping
and kidnapping and limbs and all the rest of it,
(25:13):
it does not do justice to what occurred. And you know,
I think that helps sort of facilitate a kind of
a coldness on the part of some people about what
happened on October seventh. And by the way, let's not
forget what happened on October seventh was calculated not just
(25:34):
the slaughter Israelis, but to lead immediately to the deaths
of Palestinian civilians, thousands of them. This is the responsibility
of Hamas.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah. Without without the terror attack, there would have never
been in need for Israel to go in and literally
root out the terrorists from underneath hospital buildings and schools
in Gaza. Let's keep rolling. It's also the context. I mean,
you hear about a firefight between or a shootout and
you realize, okay, the police ended up killing someone or
(26:06):
a police officer was shot. Horrible. But this was people
who were in their beds in the morning, at six
point thirty in the morning, who were welcomed by people
with automatic weapons just spraying bullets inside their homes and
killing randomly. It's and these they were American college students
marching in the streets supporting this looks Next up Davis
(26:27):
in New Hampshire. Dave, welcome next on Nights you're all
with Jeff Robins. Go right ahead, Dave.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Mister Robin's question, so, if you're so focused on Israel's
right to self dessense, what have you done to raise
concerns about the Israeli governments attack on their own people's
ability to defend themselves. My understanding is it Tel Aviv
restricts gun ownership at limits am opens.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, we lost him, Jeff. We did not hang up
on him, and I think he is a a gun
advocate and he was trying to basically turn this conversation
away from what we're talking about. So the radio gods,
I think did us a favor on that one. Let's
go next to Gary, that's true, and we did not.
(27:15):
He somehow disconnected himself. Let me go to Gary in
New Jersey. Gary, you were next on nights. I appreciate
you calling in the right ahead. Gary.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
Well, I wasn't gonna call because it is the holiday
and everything, but I did turn you on to listen.
And what you said is, you know, near and dear
to me.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
One.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
No one believed the Holocaust till they saw those films,
all those they thought they were rumors. It couldn't be.
But that's just one small part. I had once the
other day at jw V the Jewish War veterans that
(27:57):
we were eating, and naturally we solved everything by the
time dessert was there.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Of course, of course.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
And the thing is, and this was to a man,
and you know a lot of us have retired law enforcement,
all most of the old guys now like may Vietnam veterans.
And one of the things we said is that this
generation and Jews that's happening to him in school, none
(28:28):
of this is ever going to get fixed by talking.
The only thing a bully really understands is forced and
unless these kids organize themselves and start really fighting back.
Once that happens, bullies like to fight with people who
won't do anything. Once they start fighting back and doing something,
(28:53):
a lot of this is going to dissipate. And I
don't only say this.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Okay, let's see what you've got to cut you. You
know that. I guess what you're sort of suggesting is
something the equivalent to a collegiate Jewish defense league.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
I think, well, what I'm suggesting is I grew up
in a tough neighborhood, and at that time, you know,
about my age, things were more divided among religious lines
than racial. Sometimes you had to go to another neighborhood
and you went with a couple of guys and you
did what you had to do. No one got killed.
But after that, none of that happened anymore on either side,
(29:33):
and until these people realized that they're going to get
an ass whip and they're going to keep doing it.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Okay, you're talking about what we lawyers refer to as
self help. Jeff respond to suggestions, good luck, Well, let me.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
In this way, not directly, but Here's what you've said
makes me think of we started talking about Students for
Justice in Palestine, which is really an intimidation based organiz
It's been hugely successful scaring the be Jesus out of
people on campuses. And I think that what last year
did teach us, and I agree with you about this,
is that there's got to be a new sort of
(30:14):
surge of courage on the part of people, Jews, non Jews, whatever, faculty,
students to confront this. And I'm not talking about violently.
I'm talking about to challenge this nonsense, to say we
stand against this, we don't buy this, it's not working,
and stop the intimidation that has to happen on campuses.
(30:34):
If we're going to roll this back, by the way
I think it can happen, I get a vague sense
that maybe there's a little bit of pushback going on
on certain campuses. Now. You know, faculty votes for investment
don't get the same number of votes they did before.
The Boston Globe, which is astonishing to me up here
(30:54):
did an editorial today against the Boycotten devestment and sanctions movement,
So maybe there's some pushback. So I agree with you
to this extent, those bullies, and I count students for
Justice in Palestine so called as bullies. Classic bullies have
to be challenged and confronted. If that doesn't happen, then
we're not going to see and end to this anytime soon.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
I totally agree with you. But you know, one of
the things that I see is a lot of the
parents of students that had nothing to do with this.
You know, they're not taking these kids out of these colleges.
I mean, I have no idea what it costs to
sense someone to yell at Harvey, but I'm sure it's
a good.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Buck if you're including room and board as well as tuition. Yeah,
so I.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
Would say if I'm spending that kind of money, I
would have to be going, what the hell are you
letting go on here? I want my kid to get it.
You know, someone who has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Trying one of them for preach your contract carry out.
They got a lot of lawyers. Okay, I know what
you're saying, but do you want to take your kid
out once? Once your child's been your son or daughter's
been accepted to.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
A you know, well, I know once universe, I would
have to I would have to get I would have
to say and go see someone saying, I'm giving you
eighty ninety brand a year. I want my kid to
get the education what paying for. And I think more
parents did that, you know. And I like to see
when the sponsors or I guess donors to these university
(32:29):
and I say a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
A lot of that happened last year, and we need
to see more of it. That's the sort of uh yeah,
I totally agree with that. Gary is always thank you
so much for rasing in New Jersey.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
Good good new year to everybody, and let's hope this
crap gets squared away and.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
A good new year to you and your family as well.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Thank you, Garrett.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Good take quick break. Jeff Robbins as my guest. We
will continue our conversation right after this. Now back to
Dan live from the Window World Nightside Studios on WBZ
News Radio.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
All right, back to the calls. You go, got full lines,
try to get everyone in here. Let me go next
to Carol in Halifax. Carol you in next on night Side.
Thank you for calling in and uh I love to
hear what you have to say to Jeff Robins.
Speaker 7 (33:18):
Go right ahead, Carol, Hi, Hi Dan, thanks for taking
my call. I are you in Halifax?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Are you in Halifax, Massachusetts and Nova Scotia?
Speaker 4 (33:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (33:29):
Sure, yeah, Massachusetts?
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Okay, good? Correct? I correct, want to correct myself. Go
right ahead.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
Something you said earlier struck a cold of me about
showing the films, the actual video of the attack. I
can I can recall ninth grade my history teacher bringing
in black and white films from the Holocaust and showing
it to the class and and what a wake up
(33:57):
call that was and realize and realize and the horrors
that can be done to other humans by humans. And
I agree with you that too much sanitation is going on.
They really need to, uh, you know, make people aware
of the horrors of what happened there and that how
(34:19):
it should never happen again. You know, It's just.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I mean, I watched tonight or one of the evening newscasts.
Speaker 8 (34:25):
There was a gentleman who was beaten to death by
three Memphis, Tennessee police police officers, and that was shown
in its full brutality from body camps.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
And you say, why was that shown? It was shown
to show that these police officers literally lost control of themselves.
They like rapid dogs. And this man was on the ground,
he was helpless, and the beating continued. And I think
it's important for other police officer to say, you know,
(34:59):
do you have want to be portrayed in this situation.
This is not a police officer, was struggling with someone
over gun and the gun fired, and so this was
a man who was beaten to death by these or
at least they were convicted by the way today in court.
And I just think that this, uh, sometimes you have
you know, everything doesn't have to be sanitized anymore. Yeah,
(35:21):
in my opinion, Jeff quick comment and what Carol of
Halifax had to say.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Another example of what both of you have said is
the is the coverage of the beating of black civil
rights workers and marchers in the nineteen sixties, the impact
that that had on American public opinion. Another example of
exactly what you guys are saying.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Carol, Thank you. Have you called before? This is your
first time?
Speaker 4 (35:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (35:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have called before.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Call.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Okay, I love you, call, thank you. Let me go
to Betty on the boat. Betty on the boat in Boston. Harvey,
you're on with Jeff Robins Betty, go right ahead.
Speaker 9 (35:57):
How are you tonight, sir?
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 9 (36:02):
I believe in all honesty that we should not sanitize
any news that's going on in the world because it's
a misrepresentation of the fact. Emerson said in one of
his essays on nature. Words are a sign of natural fact,
and if you're going to sanitize some news, it's not
(36:26):
fair to the American public. I remember as a child
going to the movies with my mother. I was four
or five years old. We were going to see God's
Ziah and before the movie, they had a newsreel showing
planes taking off from the ships. They showed bombs being dropped,
(36:50):
and then they never sanitized the news. This is something
that became vogue over the past couple of decades. It
isn't right, it isn't fair. You're not getting the true story,
so you can't and they make an informed decision.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
We both agree. I think with your Betty on that, Betty,
I would I would like I know that you are
are a fixture in Boston and you're a great caller
to this show. We're going to start tonight, and this
is a little off topic, but since you're here, this
is Breast Cancer Awareness Month, as I'm sure you know,
(37:39):
in October, and in conjunction with our friends of college Hype,
we're going to give away a lot of Nightside T shirts,
pink Nightside T shirts, and I would love to you
have to be the first one that we send one to.
So if you would leave your address now, we want
like medium large, maybe extra large, whatever. If you leave
(38:00):
an address right and said that.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
You we will get one to you with the next
thank you.
Speaker 9 (38:04):
But the other thing is is that there was a
study done by the International Society of Traumas called ITS
and it involved the effects of trauma such as the Holocaust.
And one of my associates, let me call him, that
(38:29):
is a member of IT'S, and that there's a doctor
by the name of doctor Daniel Baron, and he was
in Israel and he was kind of he was the
authority on international generation trauma. And he went and he
found Hitler's godson living in Detroit, and they went and
(38:50):
they talked to him and he became part of a
study and they ultimately found that there was forgiveness between
the generations of Holocaust victims and that the man had
lambs in his house with strange pots. He never understood
(39:13):
that they were body pots from the Holocaust, and he
got rid of them. But yeah, I'd be honored to
have a one of your T shirts and I'd wear
it with pride.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
All right, Well, Betty, you stay there. Give that information.
I'm running out of time here, so I got to
say good night to you.
Speaker 9 (39:30):
I can hear you, and you take care you.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Stay, don't hang up. Give the information that Rob will need. Jeff,
We're we're flat out of time. I'm going to ask
the callers who are on the line to stay and
we'll continue this conversation until the next hour. But let
me give you a final words, Jeff. What can people do?
I mean, I think they can write letters. They can
call the universities. They can they can encourage the universities,
(39:54):
amongst other things, to do the right thing and maintain
order to keep classes open. Anything else you want to
that you would.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Suggest, Well, generally, the effort to intimidate people on this
issue extends to school committee meetings and town halls and
PTA meetings and classrooms and all the rest of it.
Wherever people meet, we used to call the water cooler.
And so I think what people need to do is
to not stay silent, but to speak up and to serve.
Notice that you know, when this kind of slaughter, when
(40:23):
this kind of genocidal attack, when this kind of virulent
anti Semitism gets raised, that it's going to be met
with a challenge. And I think that's the best thing
that people can do, and it's an important thing, and frankly,
you do it on a constant basis, and so we
all owe you, Dan Ray a great debt of gratitude.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
It seems to me, well, if I didn't utilize this
microphone for that cause, I would be remiss in my responsibilities.
I feel strongly about it, and I appreciate having people
like you who are allies on this. And again, i'm
sure that you're going to be writing something about this
next Tuesday if I had to, If I had.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
To bet, you're absolutely right. And thank you so much again, Dan,
Thanks Jeff.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
We'll talk soon. For those of you in the line,
please stay there. Russell, Richard, and Doug. The only lines
that are open are two and three, which is six
one seven two five four ten thirty six one seven,
two five four ten thirty. I'd like to continue this
conversations as the hour continues, and I just think it's important.
I really think it's important. And let's let's get ahead
(41:29):
of this, and let's not sit next week and be
surprised that college campuses have erupted again, because I believe
they will erupt if we say nothing, and hopefully even
our conversation about it might tamp it down a little bit.
So stay there, back on Night's side. Right after the
eleven o'clock news
It's with d Y.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm all right, welcome back everyone, and we're going from
an hour that was really a fun hour with Joeke
of State Leone to a much more serious issue, much
more serious topic. In the Boston Herald today there was
(00:24):
an article by Rick Sobe which talks about an effort
that is now underway by an organization called Students and
we can probably probably put question quotation markets around students,
but students for Justice in Palatine Palestine. This is at
(00:45):
a moment as we're approaching the anniversary of the horrific
October massacre of last October seventh, and this so called
week of rage, that's what they're calling it, a week
of age across college campuses, according to Rick Sobey, is
sickening those in the Jewish community. You can understand why
(01:08):
this week of rage will also bracket some of the
holy days of the Jewish calendar, which culminates next week
with Yam Kapor and has already started with Rashashana. If
you want to go to the website National Students for
Justice in Palestine, you'll see what I'm talking about and
(01:29):
some of the language that they use. I just want
to just touch on this quickly, and then I want
to have as many of you respond to this as possible.
They write, for over eleven months now, the Zionist entity
that's what they call Israel, with the backing of the
US and our universities, has committed a horrific assault in
the nearly two million Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip.
(01:51):
Since the start of this genocide, the people of Gaza
have continued to stand steadfast, resilient, and unwavering in the
face of these crimes. It is for them that we rise.
This is the statement in part from the National Students
for Justice and Palestine. Forgetting, of course, that Israel never
started this problem. This problem was started on October seventh
(02:14):
by himas joining us now is a longtime friend of
this program, a journalist, a lawyer in Boston with a
great law firm, Minskin Levin, a First Amendment specialist. Jeff Robbins, Jeff,
welcome back tonight's side. I'm happy you're here. I'm not
happy under the circumstances on which you're joining us tonight.
(02:35):
How are you this evening?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Dan? Thank you so much for having me in. More fundamentally,
thank you for the attention that you insist, persist in
focusing on this ananity, this moral depravity that we have
of people celebrating, celebrating the slaughter of innocence and actually
mocking the victims, victims who are victims of kidnapping, rape,
(03:00):
being blown apart, being executed at gunpoint, and all out
of a genocidal urged by a genocidal organization to slaughter Jews,
and supported amazingly by students who regard themselves as progressives
and as humanitarians. It beggars the imagination well.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Their slogan from the River to the Sea, Palestine will
be free, clearly, as Rick Sobey writes today, and as
the Anti Defamation League says in his column, is an
anti Semitic slogan. It calls for a Palestinian state, quoting
now from Rick Sobey's piece of the and the Boston Herald,
extending from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, territory
(03:46):
that includes the state of Israel, which would mean the
dismantling of the Jewish state. How can college students in
America be so naive to allow themselves to be really
pawns by this group that has, you know, their instincts,
If not their actions, certainly their instincts are terrorist. How
(04:10):
can so many college students allow themselves to be to
be used in this way as unwitting accomplices. I mean,
did they teach anything in high school and college today
about world history, about what happened you know, seventy or
eighty years ago, you know, eighty eighty five years ago
(04:31):
in Europe? What does none of this ring bells in
their heads. I just don't understand it. I mean, I
can understand where you can have people who are just
clearly anti Semitic, the the offspring of the far right
from a couple of generations ago, who have now fantastasized
(04:51):
over on the far left. But you see these these
crowds out in the street, Jeff, and it's like, what's
going to happen on college campus? Is in the next
few weeks? Next week? Actually?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah? Well, as you have before, you've posed the question,
the profound question, which is, how can people be sucked
up or gulled or basically dumbed down into embracing something
which is just antithetical to human decency. You've got a
(05:25):
group that has has its purpose annihilating Jews, that invades
another country, annihilates twelve hundred is only stopped eventually. They
tended to annihilate even more than twelve hundred. Rapes, People
blows them to pieces, kidnaps them, babies, toddlers, holds them
in tunnels. And you have to beg and plead to
(05:47):
have people who hold themselves out as humanitarians and as
progressives say, you know, that's just unequivocally outrageous and it
has to be stopped. And it's not enough to simply
say always real has the right to do itself, as
though you know that in and of itself means anything,
but that Israel has an obligation to prevent this from
happening again. And to look one step further, some of
(06:09):
these students, who you might imagine have the wit to
understand this, that what has happened here is not quote
unquote only to slaughter Jews, but to consign tens of
thousands of Palestinians to death, which is exactly what Hamas
sought to bring about and has brought about. It does
not take Einstein to understand how morally depraved this conduct was,
(06:34):
and how morally depraved it is to support it, or
embrace it, or whitewash it. And yet, as you point out,
that's the dilemma we have.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
My guest is Jeff Robbins. Jeff, as I said, is
a journalist, a syndicated columnist. Is columns up here once
a week in the Boston Herald, amongst other newspapers. He's
a lawyer, first amendment scholar with Minskin Levin, a representative
of the Clinton administration at the United Nations on the
(07:04):
whole questions a question of human rights. We see what's
going on. We saw what happened yesterday, one hundred and
eighty two hundred ballistic missiles fired in on Israel. If
Israel did not have the defense system that they have
and that they have built, if it were on fire
(07:24):
two hundred ballistic missiles in on any other country in
the Middle East, that country would have been obliterated. Thank
God that Israel has the Iron Dome and some other
ways in which most of these missiles were knocked down.
But I just if there are people out there who
(07:46):
are empathetic, I'd love to hear from you. And if
there are people out there who are just sick of it,
and I don't want to go through what we went
through last fall. It cost university presidents their jobs because
they had no backbone. They didn't even know how to
respond to questions that were asked of them in Congress.
These were college presidents. I hope, and I really mean that,
(08:11):
I hope that there is order maintained so that students
can go to classes. Jeff, you're a First Amendment scholar.
You represent people on First Amendment cases. These students, they
have the right to protest, but the protest always gets
to the point where a building is occupied, where Jewish
(08:32):
students are harassed, where Jewish students are prevented from actually
entering onto the campus that they have paid their tuition to.
Why is it that these college administrators don't understand there
is a difference between speech and action.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Well, for one thing, let's let's call a spade a spade.
There is a certain amount of gutlessness and fear that
pervades university administration buildings. They're afraid of students, they're afraid
of faculty.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
You have, for.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Example, the president of Brandeis Ron Leebwoods, who resigned a
couple of days ago after the faculty voted by a
narrow margin, by a ten vote margin, a no confidence resolution.
Why the no confidence resolution, apparently because he had expelled
Students for Justice in Palestine, when they had disrupted campus,
(09:21):
when they had vandalized the campus, when they had intimidated kids.
So you have faculty being just as witless in some
cases as the students are not all faculty but a
group of faculty, And so you have university halls and
college administrations petrified of blowback if they have the stones.
(09:48):
I think that's the first Amendment phrase, to stand up
and say no, you can't do that, you can't do that.
So there's been a wave of intimidation on campuses on
many levels. Jewish kids are intimidated. Non Jewish kids who
are who have an inkling that they want to stand
up for their Jewish friends and against this crap are intimidated.
(10:09):
You've got intimidation and university halls and it is purposeful
and frankly, Students for Justice in Palestine, as you point out,
you can put quotes around students, quotes around justice and
quotes around Palestine is an organization that has gotten very,
very effective at intimidating people. And that's this is where
the rubber meets the road. Whether or not people students
(10:31):
faculty Jewish non Jewish administrations, whether they stand up to
the intimidation or not. We're going to see whether that
happens this school year.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
When we get back, I want to talk a little
bit about the amount of financial support that many of
these universities are receiving from Middle Eastern countries and whether
or not that plays a role in their lack of
spine or their seeming lack of spine. My name is
Dan Ray. This is Nightside. I'd love to have you
(11:01):
join the conversation, whatever your point of view on this is,
because we need to talk about this, and that's why
we're doing this tonight. Tonight is Thursday. The anniversary Tonight
is Thursday, October third. The anniversary of what happened a
year ago will be on Monday, and it was timed
(11:23):
that way, I'm sure, by Hamas, to do it during
a period of time of reflection and prayer in Israel,
and here we have a year later. As opposed to
all of us memorializing and remembering those who were lost
and those who were still captive, Students for Justice and
(11:47):
Palace Design are going to try to turn it around
and turn the spotlight away from the real victims towards
what they claim a victims Palestinians who live in Gaza.
But those Palestinians have been placed in the line of fire.
They are basically being held against their will by Hamas
(12:08):
in Gaza. And you know, Hamas from a tactical point
of view, has been brilliant, but from a moral point
of view, absolutely corrupt. We'll be back on nightside if
you'd like to join the conversation from whatever point of view.
Six one, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty, six
one seven, nine, three one ten thirty and triple eight
nine to nine, ten thirty were back on night side
(12:30):
with my friend Jeff Robins, who has stood on the side.
And by the way, you know, Jeff and I disagree
on a lot of political things, but in this we
are united, okay, as every American should be united. Never again.
We are seeing the beginnings of something that we should
(12:51):
that we should denounce immediately, immediately and forcefully. And unfortunately
many people are quiet. They are they are averting their
stay or they were averting their eyes, and they are
nonetheless contributing to what could be could be a holocaust,
even worse, if it's possible, then what happened because there
(13:13):
were six million Jewish people who were killed by Hitler
Germany and his henchmen. This is a group of people
who want to eradicate a nation, a nation because they
happen to be Jewish. Back on Nightside after.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
This, Now back to Dan ray Mine from the Window World.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Night Side Studios on w b Z the news Radio,
back with Jeff Ross Robins. He used to work with
a guy named Jeff Ross for a long time ago.
I was the news director of w BZ TV. But
this is Jeff Robins, Boston attorney with Mince Levin, former
head of the Anti Defamation League here in New England,
(13:53):
a journalist and a student of Israel. He also teaches
courses in in different colleges, so at least one of
which I know of which need not be mentioned, but
it's an Avy League college. So we'll leave it right
like that. Let's go. We're talking about We're going to
talk about Israel and about what may be happening in
American college campuses in the weeks in this next week ahead.
(14:18):
They have said what they want to do, and generally,
when these radical groups say what they want to do,
they do exactly that Davis in San Antonio, Texas. Dave,
you first, this hour and nightsager.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Right ahead, Oh god, how you doing. You know, I'm
half Jewish, half black, and my father, my grandfather, when
he was over in this country, he parked his car
in front of a railroad car and left the home
note let the note home saying I'm worthboard Dad alive
(14:48):
because are the persecution that he suffered at that time.
I think that you got to you got to stop
talking giving those kids the attention that they're getting. Society
should metaphorically put a privacy sensor around that school, keep
(15:09):
their kids from going to that school, elect officials that
will limited export exchange students from attending that school, and
teach them a financial lesson.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Well, it's just not one school, Dave, Dave, it's just
not one school. This was on campuses across the country.
Uh you know from M I T.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Yeah, your your your ivy league and your elite thing,
your elite ones were ones where all the rich people
are there, not the majority. It's smart majority.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Let's have a conversation. Okay, okay, all right, it is.
There were campuses all over the country. Okay, including you're
far from the majority. Okay, you know what, Dave, let
me step aside. Let's let mister Robbins respond to you
and see if you can control yourself and agent a
conversation with him, because you're not able to gauge your
conversation with me. Go ahead, Jeff, good luck.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Well, Dan's obviously right, this is non isolated instance. It
kind of took on a wave across certain college campuses.
You're right that it wasn't all college campuses, but it's
it's it's kind of difficult to ignore something as profound
as what occurred. I think Dan is right, you know,
to the to the ninth power here, it is morally
(16:28):
depraved to celebrate the slaughter of civilians. It is morally
I guess my point is that, Dave, do me a favor.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You can interrupt me, but if you interrupt the guests,
you're going to walk the plank. So just listen to
what Jeff has to say and then comment. It's called
a conversation. You're going to enjoy it. Go ahead, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I understand the hope that you can kind of ignore
this and not pay attention to it, would that it
were so. I think the point is that it's so
profoundly morally depraved. It reflects so badly on our campuses
and on certain segments of our society, on basic decency,
that it's just very tough to ignore it, tough to
(17:14):
the point of impossible.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
I think, I agree with you, but you don't have
any law enforcement in this country that's going to do
anything to make them people regret what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Well, I mean, you know, you raise generally.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Jed Dave. He was starting to formulate.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Okay, wow, I haven't finished yet.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
A couple of things. A couple of things. I mean,
there is you know, beyond law enforcement. You can't apply
law enforcement to loathsome views. The more fundamental problem is
the loathsomeness of the views, the ignorance. I mean, I've
said often that I don't think a lot of these
(18:06):
students can tell you the difference between the Gaza strip
and the Louisiana purchase. So you've got an ignorance problem.
But as Dan points out, people have really been gulled
into a kind of moral witlessness that's really problematic, too problematic,
I agree with Dan, way too problematic to ignore. You
(18:26):
can't it's not a law enforcement problem. Really fundamentally it's
a problem much deeper than that.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
They're almost like useful idiots in the sense that they
apparently know nothing of history. They know nothing of World
War two and the events leading up to World War two.
They know nothing about the founding of the state of Israel.
They know nothing of what happened actually happened on October seventh.
But they're out there in the streets. So I don't know, Dave.
(18:54):
Let me give you in this conversation, final work. Go
right ahead.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I remember a conversation on DAAN that Morgan Freeman was
having with one of the prominent host hosts there, and
at the end of the conversation, the host said to him,
what do we do about all this racism here in
this country? And Morgan looked at him and said, stop
talking about him.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Okay, Dave, thank you very much for you call. Appreciate
your call. Maybe what we'll do is we'll stop talking
about it. I won't stop talking about it, but Dave
is welcome to stop talking about it as well. Jeff,
I don't think that's the answer to stop talking about it,
because if you ignore it, just like any sort of
a cancer, if you ignore it, it's only going to
metastasize further.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah, it's fanciful to hope you can ignore it. It's
it's way too entit and cancer, truthfully, is a pretty
good analogy. You just got this kind of you know,
it's it's cool to celebrate the slaughter of people. It's
okay to embrace that, to celebrate it, to you know,
to advocate for it, to embrace it, to whitewash it
(19:59):
for that's too fundamental problems to ignore.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I'm afraid, Jeff, I've never asked you this question before,
and I'll be really interested in what you how you answered,
not only as my friend, but also as a First
Amendment scholar. I believe that the horrors that were inflicted
on those innocent civilians last October seventh has never been
(20:23):
shown to the American people. It almost it gets sanitized.
I'm sure you have seen some of the videotape that
were taken by that that was taken by the terrorist
and made available. For some reason, the folks who have
run network newscasts have said, we don't want to show
(20:44):
this in its full horror to the American people, and
I understand that, But have we got to the point
where we need to kind of show people to get
their attention and maybe to make them truly understand how horrific,
how horror to think that that morning was.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Yeah, I think you're right. I just think, like I
know you do, that the moral failure, the moral frivolity
of this segment of the American left, to the American
purported left, it's so troublesome, it's so dangerous that you
(21:24):
have to try something to crack, you know, the conscience
of the you know, let's face it, the TikTok generation.
And therefore we're not left with anything, I think, other
than to try to show them what it is that occurred,
what was deliberately carried out, planned for months, if not years,
(21:44):
and that which these particular individuals on campuses or elsewhere
on the left, on the so called progressive side of things,
which is a phrase I can't understand in this context,
to try to crack the consciousness so basically people understand,
this is what they're getting behind when they say they're exhilarated,
when they say harmas is us, when they say we
(22:05):
are harmas, that's what they're getting behind.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
I think you're right, exactly, and I don't know if
there's going to be a network. I mean, the network
could put up, hey, folks, get the kids out of
the room, or whatever they want. We're going to show
this in its full horror so you understand what we're
dealing with. I think that, for example, the American people
turned against the Vietnam War because the networks showed what
(22:33):
was going on in Vietnam. If they had sanitized that,
the war would have gone on longer. There would have
been more Americans who would have died. I just think
that sometimes you have to basically say it as it is,
tell it as it is, and maybe even show it
as it is. And we'll take a break. We've got
(22:54):
a newscast coming up, and we get back. We'll get
to more phone calls. I'd love to have some of
you respond to that. I think that I really think
that is necessary. It's one thing to say, oh, children
will be headed and women were raped and grandparents were
shot and killed in front of the grandchildren. It's something
quite else to show it, to show it and it's
(23:15):
all it's horror. You can use it so that the
faces are not shown. Okay, you can do some editing.
I know that you can do that. Back on Nightside,
right after this if you're on the night Side with
Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio, Oh, we will
be continuing that conversation. Jeff Robbins Boston Herald, a syndicated columnist,
(23:40):
also a lawyer of First Amendment lawyer with a mince
Levin here in Boston, very powerful law firm. Join the conversation,
and if you disagree with what we're saying, and I'd
love to find out here from some of you. I
think the American public is able to We should have
been shown what actually happened, and we got a sanitize version.
(24:02):
We got verbal descriptions that that children were slaughtered in
homes and that people were hand grenades were thrown into
you know, it was like very personal killing. So I'll
be interesting if people agree with that or not. As
I said, Jeff, I think it can be sanitized to
the point we don't have to show the image of
the person's face, but to show somebody, you know, on
(24:23):
the ground who has lost a limb. I think the
horror of this, we think about this as like what
we see on television. You know, the bad guy gets
shot and he falls over, and we know that's not real.
I don't know if we can differentiate as a country
anymore the amount of slaughter that we see in the
(24:44):
movies and on television with what is actual slaughtered. Does that?
Am I making any sense to you on that?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, very much so. And you're harkening back to the
images of Vietnam and the depth in Vietnam and the effect,
for example, the coverage of the tet offensive nineteen sixty
eight had on America is a very apt analogy. I
think you're right that words like blowing apart and raping
and kidnapping and limbs and all the rest of it,
(25:13):
it does not do justice to what occurred. And you know,
I think that helps sort of facilitate a kind of
a coldness on the part of some people about what
happened on October seventh. And by the way, let's not
forget what happened on October seventh was calculated not just
(25:34):
the slaughter Israelis, but to lead immediately to the deaths
of Palestinian civilians, thousands of them. This is the responsibility
of Hamas.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah. Without without the terror attack, there would have never
been in need for Israel to go in and literally
root out the terrorists from underneath hospital buildings and schools
in Gaza. Let's keep rolling. It's also the context. I mean,
you hear about a firefight between or a shootout and
you realize, okay, the police ended up killing someone or
(26:06):
a police officer was shot. Horrible. But this was people
who were in their beds in the morning, at six
point thirty in the morning, who were welcomed by people
with automatic weapons just spraying bullets inside their homes and
killing randomly. It's and these they were American college students
marching in the streets supporting this looks Next up Davis
(26:27):
in New Hampshire. Dave, welcome next on Nights you're all
with Jeff Robins. Go right ahead, Dave.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Mister Robin's question, so, if you're so focused on Israel's
right to self dessense, what have you done to raise
concerns about the Israeli governments attack on their own people's
ability to defend themselves. My understanding is it Tel Aviv
restricts gun ownership at limits am opens.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, we lost him, Jeff. We did not hang up
on him, and I think he is a a gun
advocate and he was trying to basically turn this conversation
away from what we're talking about. So the radio gods,
I think did us a favor on that one. Let's
go next to Gary, that's true, and we did not.
(27:15):
He somehow disconnected himself. Let me go to Gary in
New Jersey. Gary, you were next on nights. I appreciate
you calling in the right ahead. Gary.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
Well, I wasn't gonna call because it is the holiday
and everything, but I did turn you on to listen.
And what you said is, you know, near and dear
to me.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
One.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
No one believed the Holocaust till they saw those films,
all those they thought they were rumors. It couldn't be.
But that's just one small part. I had once the
other day at jw V the Jewish War veterans that
(27:57):
we were eating, and naturally we solved everything by the
time dessert was there.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Of course, of course.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
And the thing is, and this was to a man,
and you know a lot of us have retired law enforcement,
all most of the old guys now like may Vietnam veterans.
And one of the things we said is that this
generation and Jews that's happening to him in school, none
(28:28):
of this is ever going to get fixed by talking.
The only thing a bully really understands is forced and
unless these kids organize themselves and start really fighting back.
Once that happens, bullies like to fight with people who
won't do anything. Once they start fighting back and doing something,
(28:53):
a lot of this is going to dissipate. And I
don't only say this.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Okay, let's see what you've got to cut you. You
know that. I guess what you're sort of suggesting is
something the equivalent to a collegiate Jewish defense league.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
I think, well, what I'm suggesting is I grew up
in a tough neighborhood, and at that time, you know,
about my age, things were more divided among religious lines
than racial. Sometimes you had to go to another neighborhood
and you went with a couple of guys and you
did what you had to do. No one got killed.
But after that, none of that happened anymore on either side,
(29:33):
and until these people realized that they're going to get
an ass whip and they're going to keep doing it.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Okay, you're talking about what we lawyers refer to as
self help. Jeff respond to suggestions, good luck, Well, let me.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
In this way, not directly, but Here's what you've said
makes me think of we started talking about Students for
Justice in Palestine, which is really an intimidation based organiz
It's been hugely successful scaring the be Jesus out of
people on campuses. And I think that what last year
did teach us, and I agree with you about this,
is that there's got to be a new sort of
(30:14):
surge of courage on the part of people, Jews, non Jews, whatever, faculty,
students to confront this. And I'm not talking about violently.
I'm talking about to challenge this nonsense, to say we
stand against this, we don't buy this, it's not working,
and stop the intimidation that has to happen on campuses.
(30:34):
If we're going to roll this back, by the way
I think it can happen, I get a vague sense
that maybe there's a little bit of pushback going on
on certain campuses. Now. You know, faculty votes for investment
don't get the same number of votes they did before.
The Boston Globe, which is astonishing to me up here
(30:54):
did an editorial today against the Boycotten devestment and sanctions movement,
So maybe there's some pushback. So I agree with you
to this extent, those bullies, and I count students for
Justice in Palestine so called as bullies. Classic bullies have
to be challenged and confronted. If that doesn't happen, then
we're not going to see and end to this anytime soon.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
I totally agree with you. But you know, one of
the things that I see is a lot of the
parents of students that had nothing to do with this.
You know, they're not taking these kids out of these colleges.
I mean, I have no idea what it costs to
sense someone to yell at Harvey, but I'm sure it's
a good.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Buck if you're including room and board as well as tuition. Yeah,
so I.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
Would say if I'm spending that kind of money, I
would have to be going, what the hell are you
letting go on here? I want my kid to get it.
You know, someone who has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Trying one of them for preach your contract carry out.
They got a lot of lawyers. Okay, I know what
you're saying, but do you want to take your kid
out once? Once your child's been your son or daughter's
been accepted to.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
A you know, well, I know once universe, I would
have to I would have to get I would have
to say and go see someone saying, I'm giving you
eighty ninety brand a year. I want my kid to
get the education what paying for. And I think more
parents did that, you know. And I like to see
when the sponsors or I guess donors to these university
(32:29):
and I say a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
A lot of that happened last year, and we need
to see more of it. That's the sort of uh yeah,
I totally agree with that. Gary is always thank you
so much for rasing in New Jersey.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
Good good new year to everybody, and let's hope this
crap gets squared away and.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
A good new year to you and your family as well.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Thank you, Garrett.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Good take quick break. Jeff Robbins as my guest. We
will continue our conversation right after this. Now back to
Dan live from the Window World Nightside Studios on WBZ
News Radio.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
All right, back to the calls. You go, got full lines,
try to get everyone in here. Let me go next
to Carol in Halifax. Carol you in next on night Side.
Thank you for calling in and uh I love to
hear what you have to say to Jeff Robins.
Speaker 7 (33:18):
Go right ahead, Carol, Hi, Hi Dan, thanks for taking
my call. I are you in Halifax?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Are you in Halifax, Massachusetts and Nova Scotia?
Speaker 4 (33:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (33:29):
Sure, yeah, Massachusetts?
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Okay, good? Correct? I correct, want to correct myself. Go
right ahead.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
Something you said earlier struck a cold of me about
showing the films, the actual video of the attack. I
can I can recall ninth grade my history teacher bringing
in black and white films from the Holocaust and showing
it to the class and and what a wake up
(33:57):
call that was and realize and realize and the horrors
that can be done to other humans by humans. And
I agree with you that too much sanitation is going on.
They really need to, uh, you know, make people aware
of the horrors of what happened there and that how
(34:19):
it should never happen again. You know, It's just.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I mean, I watched tonight or one of the evening newscasts.
Speaker 8 (34:25):
There was a gentleman who was beaten to death by
three Memphis, Tennessee police police officers, and that was shown
in its full brutality from body camps.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
And you say, why was that shown? It was shown
to show that these police officers literally lost control of themselves.
They like rapid dogs. And this man was on the ground,
he was helpless, and the beating continued. And I think
it's important for other police officer to say, you know,
(34:59):
do you have want to be portrayed in this situation.
This is not a police officer, was struggling with someone
over gun and the gun fired, and so this was
a man who was beaten to death by these or
at least they were convicted by the way today in court.
And I just think that this, uh, sometimes you have
you know, everything doesn't have to be sanitized anymore. Yeah,
(35:21):
in my opinion, Jeff quick comment and what Carol of
Halifax had to say.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Another example of what both of you have said is
the is the coverage of the beating of black civil
rights workers and marchers in the nineteen sixties, the impact
that that had on American public opinion. Another example of
exactly what you guys are saying.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Carol, Thank you. Have you called before? This is your
first time?
Speaker 4 (35:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (35:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have called before.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Call.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Okay, I love you, call, thank you. Let me go
to Betty on the boat. Betty on the boat in Boston. Harvey,
you're on with Jeff Robins Betty, go right ahead.
Speaker 9 (35:57):
How are you tonight, sir?
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 9 (36:02):
I believe in all honesty that we should not sanitize
any news that's going on in the world because it's
a misrepresentation of the fact. Emerson said in one of
his essays on nature. Words are a sign of natural fact,
and if you're going to sanitize some news, it's not
(36:26):
fair to the American public. I remember as a child
going to the movies with my mother. I was four
or five years old. We were going to see God's
Ziah and before the movie, they had a newsreel showing
planes taking off from the ships. They showed bombs being dropped,
(36:50):
and then they never sanitized the news. This is something
that became vogue over the past couple of decades. It
isn't right, it isn't fair. You're not getting the true story,
so you can't and they make an informed decision.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
We both agree. I think with your Betty on that, Betty,
I would I would like I know that you are
are a fixture in Boston and you're a great caller
to this show. We're going to start tonight, and this
is a little off topic, but since you're here, this
is Breast Cancer Awareness Month, as I'm sure you know,
(37:39):
in October, and in conjunction with our friends of college Hype,
we're going to give away a lot of Nightside T shirts,
pink Nightside T shirts, and I would love to you
have to be the first one that we send one to.
So if you would leave your address now, we want
like medium large, maybe extra large, whatever. If you leave
(38:00):
an address right and said that.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
You we will get one to you with the next
thank you.
Speaker 9 (38:04):
But the other thing is is that there was a
study done by the International Society of Traumas called ITS
and it involved the effects of trauma such as the Holocaust.
And one of my associates, let me call him, that
(38:29):
is a member of IT'S, and that there's a doctor
by the name of doctor Daniel Baron, and he was
in Israel and he was kind of he was the
authority on international generation trauma. And he went and he
found Hitler's godson living in Detroit, and they went and
(38:50):
they talked to him and he became part of a
study and they ultimately found that there was forgiveness between
the generations of Holocaust victims and that the man had
lambs in his house with strange pots. He never understood
(39:13):
that they were body pots from the Holocaust, and he
got rid of them. But yeah, I'd be honored to
have a one of your T shirts and I'd wear
it with pride.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
All right, Well, Betty, you stay there. Give that information.
I'm running out of time here, so I got to
say good night to you.
Speaker 9 (39:30):
I can hear you, and you take care you.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Stay, don't hang up. Give the information that Rob will need. Jeff,
We're we're flat out of time. I'm going to ask
the callers who are on the line to stay and
we'll continue this conversation until the next hour. But let
me give you a final words, Jeff. What can people do?
I mean, I think they can write letters. They can
call the universities. They can they can encourage the universities,
(39:54):
amongst other things, to do the right thing and maintain
order to keep classes open. Anything else you want to
that you would.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Suggest, Well, generally, the effort to intimidate people on this
issue extends to school committee meetings and town halls and
PTA meetings and classrooms and all the rest of it.
Wherever people meet, we used to call the water cooler.
And so I think what people need to do is
to not stay silent, but to speak up and to serve.
Notice that you know, when this kind of slaughter, when
(40:23):
this kind of genocidal attack, when this kind of virulent
anti Semitism gets raised, that it's going to be met
with a challenge. And I think that's the best thing
that people can do, and it's an important thing, and frankly,
you do it on a constant basis, and so we
all owe you, Dan Ray a great debt of gratitude.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
It seems to me, well, if I didn't utilize this
microphone for that cause, I would be remiss in my responsibilities.
I feel strongly about it, and I appreciate having people
like you who are allies on this. And again, i'm
sure that you're going to be writing something about this
next Tuesday if I had to, If I had.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
To bet, you're absolutely right. And thank you so much again, Dan,
Thanks Jeff.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
We'll talk soon. For those of you in the line,
please stay there. Russell, Richard, and Doug. The only lines
that are open are two and three, which is six
one seven two five four ten thirty six one seven,
two five four ten thirty. I'd like to continue this
conversations as the hour continues, and I just think it's important.
I really think it's important. And let's let's get ahead
(41:29):
of this, and let's not sit next week and be
surprised that college campuses have erupted again, because I believe
they will erupt if we say nothing, and hopefully even
our conversation about it might tamp it down a little bit.
So stay there, back on Night's side. Right after the
eleven o'clock news
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