October 23, 2024 • 37 mins
Tuesday evening, we explored what a “No” vote on Massachusetts Ballot Question #3 would look like. Wednesday night, we explore the “Yes” vote with Roxana Rivera, co-chair of the Yes on 3 coalition. Visit the NightSide podcast page for more discussions on the 2024 MA Ballot Q’s!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Constans.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Radio, delighted to be joined by Roxanna Rivera. Roxanna Rivera
works as a union organizer. She is with the SEIU,
which I think most of us are familiar with, and
she is one of those who is very much in
favor of ballot Question three, which would allow ride share
(00:27):
drivers essentially, I mean, the two big ones are Uber
and Lyft to unionize.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
So welcome to night Side, Roxanna. How are you tonight right?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Thank you for having me in the cud.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Are you on a speakerphone or a headset or something
or what sort of phone are you on?
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Can you hear me much better?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Now?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
What did you do educate me? What did you do?
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Just stop putting it by my ear? Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh that's very and get that mouthpiece by your mouth
so that we can hear you very clearly.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah. I didn't mean to embarrass you there.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
But when I'm here and you know a connection that
that needs to be better for my audience. I want
you to be able to to tell your story and
also for people to understand what you say. So let's uh,
let's talk us. Let's start with the story. So you
would like your organization. Uh would love to see right
share drivers. Uh, that's people that's that transport persons from
(01:33):
point A to point B. So it's Uber Lift. Are
there any other other ride shaer drivers you know who
transport people who would be included in this assuming this
this question.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Passes no right now. It only has to do with
the transportation network drivers that work for companies like Uber
and lyft?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Okay, are there just for curiosity? Are there other small
I'm unfamiliar? Are there other smaller companies out there that
that we don't think about the you know that that
employ a lot fewer drivers that that are out there competing?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Or is Uber and I and lifted?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
They pretty much have the the market of transporting people
all to themselves.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
You know, in terms of ride share.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Drivers, there's no other company at this point that would
be covered under this.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And again we're not talking about taxi cab drivers. We're
talking about people who drive who are now currently what's
called independent contractors. Now, I had someone on last night,
as I mentioned to you earlier today, a woman who
is a union advocate, but she apparently feels, which is
(02:47):
her right, that the piece of the initiative petition should
cover more than just ride share drivers. And when I
use the word ride share, I assume what I'm talking
about is people who are calling Uber and Lift to
take them or their you know, their family or whomever
from point A to point B. You're you're transporting people,
(03:08):
not pizzas and sub sandwiches.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And that's the difference, right, Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Okay, give me a little amplification of that. Rucks in
and so I don't want to make an assumption here,
but what she was saying last night was that this
legislation or this initiative petition would not cover people who
are out kind of doing the same thing. They're they're
picking up someone's chicken dinner order or picking up their pizza.
(03:36):
And she said that that's why they're opposed to this,
because it doesn't include everyone who is out there driving.
And I know you want to respond to that. So
that's why I'm kind of tee up the question for
you to respond to it.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Go ahead, thank you, Yes, no, Yes, those are drivers
that do delivery, right, and so our balid initiative, the
Yes on three, only covers those that are transporting supporting
people and for a ballot initiative we have. We have
(04:10):
to go with a single issue, and UH transportation is
seen delivered different as delivery, and so we had to
focus on the set of workers that are covered under
transportation and so that's you know, we believe this is
a start. We obviously fully support having additional UH workers
(04:34):
that work for app companies be able to have a
pathway to a union, but we believe this is start
with the with the yes on three ballot initiative UH.
And we know that sometimes it takes one set of
workers to pave the way for other workers. That's how
it's been for for our union in our experience, as
we bought for more workers being able to improve their
(04:57):
lives through a union.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
So what you're saying to me, if I'm understanding what
you're saying to me, is that it's not inconceivable that
somewhere down the line you might try to incorporate people
who are delivery drivers who are not transporting people but
also are transporting you know, food or important mail or
(05:22):
letters or whatever, you know, would not be maybe maybe
you want to grow the union. So if the commonality
was people who are driving their car to transport something,
whether it's a person.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Or an item.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Why not go a year from now, two years from now,
three years from now, bringing them under the umbrella of
the union, is what I'm hearing you.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Say, right, Yes, not only here in Massachusetts among other drivers,
but actually ride share drivers in other states are watching
what happens here on number firs day. So ride share
drivers from Minnesota, in California and Yellow Noise, they're watching
closely because they are also want to do something similar
in their states based on uh, you know, uh, the
(06:05):
outcome of the elections here.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Now, are there are there any states in the United
States right now where ride share drivers.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Have been able to form a union?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Or would this be the first union of ride share
drivers that would be formed or permitted to be formed
more specifically by this ballot.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Question, Yeah, this would Massachusetts would be first, so it
would be historic. And that's why other states are watching
what happens here because unfortunately, these rightshre drivers are not
covered under federal laws, so they're not they don't have
the ability to organize, like what is what is a
(06:43):
right that's guaranteed to almost all Massachusetts workers. These workers
don't have. So that's why we're asking the state to
create that law.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And so my understanding understanding, and if I'm wrong, feel
free to correct, because I'm sure you know this issue
better than I do. But my understand is that the
reason that you had to do the hard work of
getting an issue on the ballot, you had to gather
signatures and all of that, or certain amounts of signatures
over a certain period of time, is that the legislature
(07:13):
did not act. You asked the legislature in Massachusetts of
all places, to give rights your drivers, the right to unionize,
and it went nowhere.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
What happened.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, so we know from the start two years ago
we started really organizing right here drivers in the state
of Massachusetts, and we knew at the very beginning that
only you know, even though there's thousands of proposed legislative built,
only a handful pass each year. And so as we
(07:47):
did our legislative efforts and had drivers actually going to
the state House, going to hearings, going to meet with
legislators to talk about, you know, the urgency in regards
to them begin take care of the families, we also
also started an effort to uh to move forward the
ballot and is shud We said, one way or another,
(08:09):
you know, uh, these workers are hurting now and they
can't wait any longer.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And so no, I get that, But why, you know,
are you letting the legislative look the legislative leadership roxy
in And I can tell you it worked for many
years up there, covering the legislature whatever they.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Want to get in front of the full House of Representatives,
in front of the state Senate. You know, they get
it there.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Okay, they have an arcane system in which bills get
referred to committee.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
And that's where they go to die.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
What I don't understand is why an overwhelmingly democratic legislature,
which I think there's a lot of progressive members up
there who would want to have ride share drivers receive
union protection, which they have a right, in my opinion,
to receive. I'm stunned that the legislature wouldn't do this
for you.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I really mean it.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
They're making you accomplish it the hard way, which seems
to me to be unfair.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
There's a lot of priorities at the State House, a
lot of good issues that don't don't.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Okay, you're buying what they're telling you. Okay, that's fine,
I don't need to You're you are basically telling me
answering my question the same way, and you're letting them
off the hook.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
But that's okay as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
They they should have done it for you in my opinion,
And you don't have to say that.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
If you want to say they're going to take a break,
we'll get some more phone calls. Feel free.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
If you are a ride share driver out there and
you have an opinion on question three, I think it
should pass. I think the more I look at it,
it seems to me it's a question of fairness to
people who are trying to either make a living or
add to their living. They use they do this as
a second job or as a job that's that's a
(09:48):
part time job. I still think they should have protections
of a union. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten
thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty, triple
eight nine to nine, ten thirty. We're coming right back
on night Side.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
My guess is Roxanne Rivera. She's co chair of the
Yes on three coalition and she works for SEIU Service
Employees International Union SCIU. I think most of us are
familiar with that. Roxanne, let me ask you. Let's assume
this passes, okay, is what will it mean to the drivers?
What are the advantages that drivers will receive if this passes?
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So the reality for these drivers is that eighty percent
of all the trips are actually done by full time drivers.
So that means that this is the primary source of income.
And many have sied, and many of them have had
found themselves having to work up to seventy hours a week.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
And so.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Because the recent settlement from the AG, it with a
start in setting basic standards, but it didn't address the reality,
the full reality faced by these drivers and they it
didn't account for all the hours that they work, you know,
(11:15):
the wait time between rides. It didn't account for all that.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
What I'm really trying to figure out here because I
feel like you're reading some talking points to me, and
I'd prefer you to just talk to me. Let's assume
I'm a driver and you're trying to convince me to
vote yes on this. What will be the benefit for
the drivers? I know this and benefits just tell me
what they are, because I think it's important for people
to understand that talk to me, talk to.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Me, don't read.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
The drivers will be able to have to be able
to talk to the companies and actually have a voice
with the companies to talk around the issues they face
daily because literally they are struggling, they are hurting, they
don't have they don't make enough, you know, to bring
food at the table to make sure that they're not
facing eviction. These workers on the edge, they work paycheck
(12:02):
to paycheck, and they have invested a lot of their
own resources to even be able to start up working
for these app companies, and so they have a lot invested,
and yet they have a lot of insecurity because there's
a lot of issues working aside from the low pay
and the fact that these app companies have taken a
(12:24):
bigger share of the rights. As each year has passed
that they've been here in Massachusetts, drivers have been making
less and less and they feel very unprotected.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Because so let's asserve that a driver again, I think
you're giving me. I think the simple answer to be
honest with you, and a great selling point is for
the driver's perspective in unity their strength. If you're an
individual driver and you try to have a disagreement with
the owner of the company or the head whoever owns
uber or whatever. They're going to say, Hey, if you
(12:58):
don't want to drive for us, no problem. But if
they're united with a union, that's going to benefit all.
So let's let's leave it at that for now. What
does the average full time uber or lyft driver make
in Massachusetts? What what do they bring home in terms
of money? Give us an idea about that. Assuming they're
(13:18):
working a regular, you know, regular job forty forty five
hours a week, not crazy over time, what can they
make by working you know, a forty hour week? Correct?
Speaker 6 (13:29):
But they don't.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
The reality is that many have to work sixty seventy
eighty hours a week.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Then the people who are working sixty or seventy hours,
how much? How much? What? How many hours? What do
they make? That's what I'm trying to understand. IM making one.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Hundred thousands, and I appreciate your question. If it's the
reality is that what we hear from drivers is that
they're still at the end of the day, they're still
not making enough.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
No, I understand that, but can you give let me
ask you this, rock Sander, let me try this one. Okay,
can you give me a figure as to what I
can tell you that that you know what school teachers
make and you know the general I just general ideas.
I'm just curious if if someone wants to become a
ride share driver, and if they work hard, in which
they do okay, and they put a lot of expense,
(14:16):
They have to buy their own gasoline, they have to
buy their card, and no one gives them a card
to ride, how much do they make or can or
do you not want to tell me?
Speaker 4 (14:24):
No, it's just many of the drivers are still saying
they make less minimum wage after all the outer pocket
costs that they have to put in in order to
basically work for these app companies. And that's why it
is important, like you said, you made a good point about,
you know, have them having a voice on a job
collectively right to be able to improve their lives and
(14:45):
be able to h reach an agreement with these companies
that will lift up and improve their lives.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
How much of a turnover is there?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Again this I assume that there are some people who
have become a ride share driver and that it works
for their schedule and they basically that's what they do
full time, and whether it's a sixty hour week job,
or you know, most people think people work very few
people work forty hours in real life, as I'm sure
you know, I'm sure you work more than forty hours.
(15:19):
I know, I do, you know, it's I think the
idea of a forty hour work week is kind of
I don't know that it's there.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
There are some people who do. How much of a
turnover is there in this job?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
But people sticking with it because it's because of its
convenience even though it doesn't pay enough. Or are they
basically trying it for a year or two and then
saying I'm done with this, I'm going to go do
something else. What is there a lot of turnover in
this in this profession, in your in your experience.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
So the majority of driver, the majority rights are you know,
done by what you know, you'd call an actor driver,
not ones that are just doing it for a short
amount of time.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
And again, those that have been in this industry for years,
they've you know, it started out as profitable, right, they
were making enough to bring home, right, And then what's
happened is that the companies have just taken a bigger,
bigger share of divide and that's why they want you know,
that's why they're asking for folks to vote yes on three,
so that they have a pathway to a union. And
(16:20):
the turnover is, you know, there's still a lot of
turnover in an industry like this, because just right the
Department of Public Utilities report seventy thousand right share drivers
just in the state of Massachusetts, and so that is
a huge number. And it is, you know, a hard
industry in the sense of you're talking about there isn't
(16:41):
a common work site, there's no set schedule, right, and
so there's challenges to you know, workers coming together right
to address these issues. And so there's.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Also there's an independence to that.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
A lot of people who work in a factory and
have to show up at seven thirty every morning and
punch a clock and then they don't get up until
you know, three point thirty in the afternoon. So there's
some good things about being a right chaer driver. But
you're saying, I think that in unity their strength, and
if the right shaer drivers have the opportunity for a union,
(17:14):
just like the hotel workers, we've just seen an example
of the hotel workers strike here in Boston. They apparently
seem to be pretty happy with the contract that they
settled with some of the big hotels, some of the
luxury hotels.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
So you know this. Unions are actually a good thing.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And I know that not everyone agrees with that, Probably
a lot of business owners don't, but unions are a
good thing. It allows people to collectively bargaining. We'll take
a break. We're going to go to phone calls Roxane.
We'll get to some phone calls on the other side.
If you'd like to join the conversation and ask a question,
feel free. If you'd like to state how you feel.
And if you are a ride share driver, an Uber driver,
(17:54):
or a Lyft driver, this is an opportunity for you
to argue your point and try to convince people who
are in my listening audience to vote yes on question
three six months. The only lines open right now are
the six, one, seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty. I
hope to carry this conversation with my guest who rocks
(18:14):
in a rivera right through this hour up until ten o'clock,
So stick with us. More conversation and questions, questions.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I learned at this job.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
The best part about my job is that I get
to meet different people, whether they're callers or listeners or
or guests I can find out. I've never been a
ride share driver, but with these two interviews last night
and tonight, I feel that I understand the industry a
lot better. And that's that's beneficial to me because the
(18:47):
more that I know, the more that you're going to know,
and the more the more considered your vote's going to
be on these ballot issues this this November. We'll be
right back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Night Side with Dan on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
All right, we're gonna take some phone calls. My guest
is a union official with the s c i U,
Roxanna Rivera, and she's co chair of the Yes on
Question three committee. That question is headlined in that handy
dandy summary that you have from the conwealtha Massachusetts law
(19:25):
proposed by initiative petition Unionization for Transportation network Drivers.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Let's head to the phone is going to go to
Dwayne in Rossendale. Dwayne, you are first this hour on
night Side with Roxanna Revera. Go right ahead, Dwayne.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Hey, Dan, great to speak with it. Yeah. I'm a
uber driver, left driver. I've been driving for a little
close to ten years. I drive off and on. I
don't drive a regular schedule.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
But is it Let me ask you, Dwayne, is it
is it your full time job or do you do
you work it as a side hustle, a side hustle.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
I'm seventy two years old, and I need you know.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
It sounds seventy two. You got you got a young voice. Congratulations.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Well, well, I follow the Keith Richards program of Health,
nutrition and Exercise.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
So yeah, I've heard about that program, right.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Yeah, paid off in the end.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah yeah, okay, hope you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
Go ahead, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, I uh and uh,
you know, it's it's been changing. I suggest that if
they were to put the rates and everything back to
where it was in twenty fifteen, I think most people
would be happy. And it's not just so what let
me ask you this.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Just give me a couple of round figures here. When
you started working as a when they when they arrived
on the scene and you were working you know, forty
hours or whatever, it was. Okay, what were you making
back then compared to what you're making now for the
same amount of work. That's I just want to put
it in some numbers that people will understand.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Most of us.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You work, you get a little raise. Maybe you don't
get a raise, you get a little raise. I mean,
inflation is killing all of us, no doubt about that.
But just in terms of how much you would take
it home back ten years ago versus today for the
same amount of work, give me a rough idea.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Well, back then I was driving black car and suv
in the rates were three dollars and ninety five cents
a mile. Now it's a little about a dollar fifty
I could make.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
More than which is yeah, that's a good that's been
cut more than fifty percent.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
It's been cut in half.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
Yeah, yeah, and everything else has been going down as well.
Right now, I figure I make somewhere around thirty three
dollars an hour. I work in the city. Because I
live in the city, I work in the neighborhoods. There's not
a lot of downtime between pickups.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
But not a lot of launch trips either.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Oh, I avoid those. I avoid those right now are
in front of me. I've got a receipt from the
job I did the Manchester, New Hampshire. The passenger paid
ninety dollars and three cents. I earned forty nine dollars
and seventeen cents, So they took you know, forty dollars.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
And then you've got to drive back from Manchester.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Yeah, at ten o'clock at night. So I drove back empty. Right, sure,
it's one hundred figure, it's one hundred miles. I RS.
Lets me right off sixty seven cents a mile. That's
a loss. That's a that's a loss on paper. So
not only am I not making any money, I'm not
paying taxes either, you know, the communities. I mean, I
appreciate all your taxes because they give me good roads
(22:39):
to drive on in emergency services should they need them,
because I'm.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Not making so you like, So you like even though
they're cutting you back from three ninety five a mile
to a buck and a half a mile, you'd prefer
to do a whole bunch of shot short runs as
long as you stay within the one twenty eight area.
And when you when you take a job up to
New Hampshire, you think you said, oh beautiful, I'm going
to make a lot of money. Actually that's going to
(23:04):
be a loser for you.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, it's a big loser. In fact, they
don't even publish their rates anymore. They make it up
on the fly.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
I do understand they have surge price.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I know the surge pricing deal and all of that,
and it's a little bit, you know, a little bit
crazy for those of us who do occasionally take it
and over. But you know something, Dwayne, you explained the
dilemma that you're facing really well, and I think that
anybody who's out there will understand why you want to
get into into a union of right share drivers.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
This has to be settled down. We need we need
some we need some standardization of how much we're going
to earn, what the rates are. There are no rates.
If you're going to the airport, you're in no position
to negotiate. You've got to get there. And I'm finding
that my passengers who are going to the airport are
paying a lot more than what I get paid. There's
(24:00):
still a surge, but uber and Lyft are taking it.
They're not advertising it. And I recommend to passengers talk
to your driver, ask them how much they are getting
paid for this job. And I think you'll be surprised
that where the money's going.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, what is so what is a normal middle of
the day or whatever from downtown Boston to the airport.
That's only probably five or six miles max.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Right, yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah, from downtown Boston.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, yeah, So how much and depending upon the day,
it's going to cost take time, a lot of time
or less time.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
What's the charge going to be? Roughly twenty bucks, twenty
five bucks more?
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Oh no, no, it could be anything from eight to
thirteen dollars from downtown back Bay, say back Bay, Cambridge,
he's Cambridge.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Okay, so that's a good deal.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
That is a good deal for the customer, but it's
horrible for the drivers.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
Yeah. Well, well I'm not sure how much the customers paying. Yeah,
we don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Oh you're saying you get anywhere between eight and thirteen.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Okay, fine, So the customer could be paying two or
three times that at least.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
Could be paying twice that maybe, Yeah, okay, yep.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
You know what's funny.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
When Uber came in back in whatever it was, twenty fifteen,
twenty sixteen, I was amazed that they were able to
come and basically we fled the city. The people who
really took it in the chops with the taxi cab drivers,
guys who had paid money, big money to have a
medallion and Uber didn't care about them. They rolled right
(25:37):
I was right, they rolled right over the What did
you pay for you? Well, did you own a medallion
or no?
Speaker 5 (25:44):
I did not know. I leased a cab, right, So what.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I'm saying you when you leased it, you were still
paying the person you know factored in there was how
much the medallion costume. Uber just came in and they
rolled over people, rolled over people. And the cabby's had
no organization, The cabvis just they were They rolled over them.
And now Uber is basically eating and you know, doing
(26:09):
the same thing through through its most valuable employees. They're
pretty they're pretty cutthroat.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Man. That's that you got reunion?
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Ye we do? We do?
Speaker 3 (26:19):
You got a question or comment from my guest Roxanna.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
No.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
I think what Duena's talking about is the reality is
so many drivers that we've talked through over the last
two years that they've just you know, seen the the
company is taking more and more of the share of
the ride, and that you know, and and there's other
issues that they have to also address. And being able
to be able to directly negotiate with these companies and
(26:44):
having drivers at the table is what's going to shape
and change this industry for the better, not just for
the drivers that I think for passengers too.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Do you think fears will go up for passengers?
Speaker 4 (26:58):
So I think that, just like Dwayne was saying, how
much of the share is right they've taken, you know,
we believe that they can take less and they're going
to want to remain competitive for their you know, to
keep their customers happy. And we think that they can
still pay drivers fairly given you know that they uphold
this whole industry every day for these Yeah, without.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Without the drivers, that there was no industry. You're right
on that, Dwayne. Great call. Thank you so much. You
gave us a lot of specifics. I'm sure you your
call convinced a lot of people that maybe they want
to vote yes on this.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Thanks Dwayne, I hope so favor. Keep listening to the show,
love to have you become a regular listener and regular caller.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
I will do that all right, Thank you, Dan.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Thanks to We take quick break, coming right back on
nice side, my guest Lexander Rivere.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Dwayne was good. Dwayne was good. You could tell he
was talking just from the heart. We'll take a quick break,
coming back on nights side. We'll try to get everybody in.
I promised there's one line that's open at six one,
seven thirty. Back on night Side with Dan Ray.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Now back to Dan Ray from the Window World night
Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Okay, folks, the lines are now packed and I have
a guest coming up at ten o'clock, so I'm going
to ask each of you to be as succinct as possible.
I wish all of you had called nine thirty. I
what it got you all in. Let's go right now too,
kehob In framing him. Eab you are next on Nightsiger, right.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Ahead, Yes, thank you so much for taking my call.
I have been driver for a long time now eighty years,
and our job really getting very difficult. All the expenses
on the shoulder of the drivers. I would like to
speak more about numbers. I have been listening to you,
but your time is very limited. But Dan, our job
(28:44):
is really extremely getting difficult. The drivers, they have no protection.
They can stop any driver anytime they want. The activation
is a nightmare for the drivers. And again with the insulation.
I used to drive a highlander, you know, putting like
four doughter gallen in my I reduce my car to
a priers. I'm a tall guy. I'm a five a
six five tall guy, So I reduce the prier just
(29:08):
to cut my expenses. And they are so greedy. When
I started, like eight years ago, they used to take
twenty percent and just as do when the first caller said,
they used to give good Baird mile and then we
use work like forty fifteen minutes. You can make a
living and bring the food in the table, put for
your family. Now we work seventy eighty hours and the
(29:28):
thing is done. This is a growth this is a
gross So what they're talking about now the Attorney general
lawsuit is the active hours. You know, to put active
hours done, you need to put double time. So when
they tell you like forty hours active hours, you put
sixty seventy. They don't talk about that. They don't talk
about your growth hours you're putting there down all the
(29:49):
expenses on the drivers we put, God, I pave my insurance,
my maintenance car, you name it, all of it. I
can see how this declining in the last eight years
is intense. The amount justice they're literally taken advantage of
these drivers majority as people of color, immigrants, English the
second language. Most of these drivers is my people, my community.
(30:09):
I know them very well. I'm originally from Sudan, from Africa.
I speak Arabic. I know the arm drivers, the Muslim driver,
the African drivers, all all of them. They tell me
the same thing. The Latin's drivers, the Chinese, they have
been struggling, is getting worse and worse. And as you
said at the beginning, done, I was listening to you,
our lawmakers, they fell us miserably. We had a right
(30:30):
shap driver, just as Bill. They could have just passed it.
Then they did not pass it. They did not do
the right things.
Speaker 7 (30:35):
And now.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
You that's why I was asking that question, because it
would have been a lot easier on a lot of
people if they had done the right thing quickly. They
have your call. Your call is an outstanding call. I
wish I had more time. I don't. I hope you
call me and continue to continue to listen to programmed.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
Oh will I will task to the drivers to this
intense tone, I will done.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Thank you. We I hope to meet you someday. Thank you,
my friend.
Speaker 6 (31:03):
Oh, thank you, Donki. We appreciate you.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
Don Kiyrosana.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Thanks by all right, let me go to Rachel.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Rachel, you gotta be I know you've been waiting a while, Rachel,
but I got a whole bunch of folks here.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
You gotta be a little quicker, I.
Speaker 8 (31:13):
Know, all right, I'm gonna be really really really quick.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
One.
Speaker 8 (31:19):
When you ask that woman that you are with and
ask what they make in hours, she did not answer.
My whole thing, I manage your companies. That's union. My
lineman went down and did whatever. So when you do
(31:41):
union stuff, now you get into federal state, whatever. But
if these guys or these drives are being hired by
these companies and not being paid, she never even said, what,
you know, the right is that they're being paid. But
(32:05):
then she's gonna open the can of worms if she's
gonna start union stuff.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
And I believe in union.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
I work for union companies.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
No, But I think I think that these drivers, Rachel,
I think that they have a right to unionize.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I think that they have no strength as an individual driver.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I I think it's Fairnish.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
You gotta you gotta make that negotiating table somewhat, you know, level.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
That's all that. I'm just trying to be fair, that's all.
Speaker 8 (32:33):
No, you listen, Dan, you know me and I'm trying
to be fair as well. Okay, it's what happens you
start unionizing. You gotta deal with the state. Oh and
then you have to background check, you have to do this,
and again you have you asked more than once what
(32:56):
are these guys making?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
So that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Look, my my, you know, I don't hound the guests,
but I but you know, I think she look I
like to give people the benefits of the doubt, Rachel.
And I think that Dwayne put it out there pretty clearly.
He said that they used to make three ninety five
a mile. Now they make a buck and a half
a mile. That's a big cause.
Speaker 8 (33:18):
I understand that, but it should be something else. So
if they're going traveling, it's it's a definitely unique situation.
But Dan, you know, unions now you gotta pay into
you start unionized.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
No, I'm a union member, Rachel. I know.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I've been a union member for a long time. I
was a shop steward and we we had tough negotiations.
I you know you, I am not in any way,
shape or form a post to unions.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
I'm a union person.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
So we can disagree on that you're in a management position.
I'm not smart enough to be in management, Okay, Rachel.
Speaker 8 (33:54):
I am union. I want these guys to get I.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Well, vote yes on three, vote yes on three, and
and give them a chance.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Okay. Uber's pretty cutthroat.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
It sounds to me like Uber and Lyft are kind
of having their own way, and I like I like fairness. Rachel,
I got a screwed. We did three minutes, which is
much longer than I could. But because you were regular,
you go a little longer.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Now. No, No, it was always good at different point
of view. Thanks so much. Okay, talk soon. Let me
go to Alan Boston.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Al, you gotta be quick for me so I can
get Susan from Jamaica plane into go ahead.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Al.
Speaker 7 (34:27):
Hey, damn hey, listen. One thing nobody's talking about is
uh the insurance of these drivers. Most of these drivers
only have regular auto insurance. There was an incident a
few years ago on ninety three and heading into the
city where a young girl was killed at college student
and come to find out, the insurance company renegged on
paying because it's a you know, higher higher come.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Basically they claimed that that the guy didn't buy commercial coverage.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
He had bought you know, regular personal insurance.
Speaker 7 (34:58):
Correct, and that that's tough.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, well again, you know, people try to people try
to cut corners, Okay, and I'm not saying it's right.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Roxan, A quick comment on that.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Do you think that that the drivers can maybe you know,
pay a little bit more for insurance when when everything
gets gets squared away here and they're getting a little
bit more money on their jobs.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
We want Those are types of issues that we need
to deal with right when we when when drivers actually
get to the process of actually having the option to
join the union and then being able to sit down
with the companies and talk about this because because safety
should be a priority, right. But the issue, the issue
is that it's it's these these app companies have shifted
the whole liability on the workers, right, and so that
(35:45):
that needs to change in order for this insight.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
I hope, I hope it does. And I think that's
concerned Command Dress. Now, I hate you to do this
year called in really late. I want to give Susan
about thirty seconds to Okay, thank you, my friend, thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Susan, and Jamaica Plan I forced to give you about
forty seconds.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Go ahead, Susan, what's.
Speaker 6 (36:02):
Your coming out?
Speaker 9 (36:04):
So I was confused by the ads, and then I
got my red books and the legal women voilters, and
I read the four and the against, and I read
the against, and it's the same old anti union stuff.
Oh you'll pay your money, you'll get nothing, blah blah
blah blah blah. And then I realized, who's on the
flour and Roxanne and the union she represents has ably
(36:24):
represented the lowest paid service workers in this city, building
cleaners and parking lot attendance, people who had nothing and
no representation. And that union has proved itself. It has
proved it can it can represent a low age, a
low age immigrant work for.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
You've done Gil too. You made an interesting point.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I would only ask you to call in earlier because
because once ten o'clock comes along, I got to say
good night, so we'll talk again, I hope. Okay, Thanks sir,
Thank you, jam Thank you very much. We got you
in at least a little bit. Roxana, thank you very much,
Best of luck. On November fifth, Question three, I think
that the driver should have right to unionize in my opinion,
(37:10):
and maybe later on you bring the other people in
as well. Thanks so much for being with us tonight
and thanks for dusting your schedule so we can.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Have you back to back with the other point of view.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Thanks so much, Roxanna, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Have a great night. Here comes to ten o'clock News.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
We're going to switch off focus, going to talk about
Israel're going to talk with the Boston attorney who was
there on October seventh and went back earlier this month
and comes back with stories about what's going on in
Israel right now. Israel under siege. It's a crazy situation
over there. And Jason Greenberg will join us right after
the ten o'clock News
It's night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Constans.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Radio, delighted to be joined by Roxanna Rivera. Roxanna Rivera
works as a union organizer. She is with the SEIU,
which I think most of us are familiar with, and
she is one of those who is very much in
favor of ballot Question three, which would allow ride share
(00:27):
drivers essentially, I mean, the two big ones are Uber
and Lyft to unionize.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
So welcome to night Side, Roxanna. How are you tonight right?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Thank you for having me in the cud.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Are you on a speakerphone or a headset or something
or what sort of phone are you on?
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Can you hear me much better?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Now?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
What did you do educate me? What did you do?
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Just stop putting it by my ear? Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Oh that's very and get that mouthpiece by your mouth
so that we can hear you very clearly.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah. I didn't mean to embarrass you there.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
But when I'm here and you know a connection that
that needs to be better for my audience. I want
you to be able to to tell your story and
also for people to understand what you say. So let's uh,
let's talk us. Let's start with the story. So you
would like your organization. Uh would love to see right
share drivers. Uh, that's people that's that transport persons from
(01:33):
point A to point B. So it's Uber Lift. Are
there any other other ride shaer drivers you know who
transport people who would be included in this assuming this
this question.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Passes no right now. It only has to do with
the transportation network drivers that work for companies like Uber
and lyft?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Okay, are there just for curiosity? Are there other small
I'm unfamiliar? Are there other smaller companies out there that
that we don't think about the you know that that
employ a lot fewer drivers that that are out there competing?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Or is Uber and I and lifted?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
They pretty much have the the market of transporting people
all to themselves.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
You know, in terms of ride share.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Drivers, there's no other company at this point that would
be covered under this.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And again we're not talking about taxi cab drivers. We're
talking about people who drive who are now currently what's
called independent contractors. Now, I had someone on last night,
as I mentioned to you earlier today, a woman who
is a union advocate, but she apparently feels, which is
(02:47):
her right, that the piece of the initiative petition should
cover more than just ride share drivers. And when I
use the word ride share, I assume what I'm talking
about is people who are calling Uber and Lift to
take them or their you know, their family or whomever
from point A to point B. You're you're transporting people,
(03:08):
not pizzas and sub sandwiches.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And that's the difference, right, Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Okay, give me a little amplification of that. Rucks in
and so I don't want to make an assumption here,
but what she was saying last night was that this
legislation or this initiative petition would not cover people who
are out kind of doing the same thing. They're they're
picking up someone's chicken dinner order or picking up their pizza.
(03:36):
And she said that that's why they're opposed to this,
because it doesn't include everyone who is out there driving.
And I know you want to respond to that. So
that's why I'm kind of tee up the question for
you to respond to it.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Go ahead, thank you, Yes, no, Yes, those are drivers
that do delivery, right, and so our balid initiative, the
Yes on three, only covers those that are transporting supporting
people and for a ballot initiative we have. We have
(04:10):
to go with a single issue, and UH transportation is
seen delivered different as delivery, and so we had to
focus on the set of workers that are covered under
transportation and so that's you know, we believe this is
a start. We obviously fully support having additional UH workers
(04:34):
that work for app companies be able to have a
pathway to a union, but we believe this is start
with the with the yes on three ballot initiative UH.
And we know that sometimes it takes one set of
workers to pave the way for other workers. That's how
it's been for for our union in our experience, as
we bought for more workers being able to improve their
(04:57):
lives through a union.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
So what you're saying to me, if I'm understanding what
you're saying to me, is that it's not inconceivable that
somewhere down the line you might try to incorporate people
who are delivery drivers who are not transporting people but
also are transporting you know, food or important mail or
(05:22):
letters or whatever, you know, would not be maybe maybe
you want to grow the union. So if the commonality
was people who are driving their car to transport something,
whether it's a person.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Or an item.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Why not go a year from now, two years from now,
three years from now, bringing them under the umbrella of
the union, is what I'm hearing you.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Say, right, Yes, not only here in Massachusetts among other drivers,
but actually ride share drivers in other states are watching
what happens here on number firs day. So ride share
drivers from Minnesota, in California and Yellow Noise, they're watching
closely because they are also want to do something similar
in their states based on uh, you know, uh, the
(06:05):
outcome of the elections here.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Now, are there are there any states in the United
States right now where ride share drivers.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Have been able to form a union?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Or would this be the first union of ride share
drivers that would be formed or permitted to be formed
more specifically by this ballot.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Question, Yeah, this would Massachusetts would be first, so it
would be historic. And that's why other states are watching
what happens here because unfortunately, these rightshre drivers are not
covered under federal laws, so they're not they don't have
the ability to organize, like what is what is a
(06:43):
right that's guaranteed to almost all Massachusetts workers. These workers
don't have. So that's why we're asking the state to
create that law.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And so my understanding understanding, and if I'm wrong, feel
free to correct, because I'm sure you know this issue
better than I do. But my understand is that the
reason that you had to do the hard work of
getting an issue on the ballot, you had to gather
signatures and all of that, or certain amounts of signatures
over a certain period of time, is that the legislature
(07:13):
did not act. You asked the legislature in Massachusetts of
all places, to give rights your drivers, the right to unionize,
and it went nowhere.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
What happened.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, so we know from the start two years ago
we started really organizing right here drivers in the state
of Massachusetts, and we knew at the very beginning that
only you know, even though there's thousands of proposed legislative built,
only a handful pass each year. And so as we
(07:47):
did our legislative efforts and had drivers actually going to
the state House, going to hearings, going to meet with
legislators to talk about, you know, the urgency in regards
to them begin take care of the families, we also
also started an effort to uh to move forward the
ballot and is shud We said, one way or another,
(08:09):
you know, uh, these workers are hurting now and they
can't wait any longer.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And so no, I get that, But why, you know,
are you letting the legislative look the legislative leadership roxy
in And I can tell you it worked for many
years up there, covering the legislature whatever they.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Want to get in front of the full House of Representatives,
in front of the state Senate. You know, they get
it there.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Okay, they have an arcane system in which bills get
referred to committee.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
And that's where they go to die.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
What I don't understand is why an overwhelmingly democratic legislature,
which I think there's a lot of progressive members up
there who would want to have ride share drivers receive
union protection, which they have a right, in my opinion,
to receive. I'm stunned that the legislature wouldn't do this
for you.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I really mean it.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
They're making you accomplish it the hard way, which seems
to me to be unfair.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
There's a lot of priorities at the State House, a
lot of good issues that don't don't.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Okay, you're buying what they're telling you. Okay, that's fine,
I don't need to You're you are basically telling me
answering my question the same way, and you're letting them
off the hook.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
But that's okay as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
They they should have done it for you in my opinion,
And you don't have to say that.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
If you want to say they're going to take a break,
we'll get some more phone calls. Feel free.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
If you are a ride share driver out there and
you have an opinion on question three, I think it
should pass. I think the more I look at it,
it seems to me it's a question of fairness to
people who are trying to either make a living or
add to their living. They use they do this as
a second job or as a job that's that's a
(09:48):
part time job. I still think they should have protections
of a union. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten
thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty, triple
eight nine to nine, ten thirty. We're coming right back
on night Side.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
My guess is Roxanne Rivera. She's co chair of the
Yes on three coalition and she works for SEIU Service
Employees International Union SCIU. I think most of us are
familiar with that. Roxanne, let me ask you. Let's assume
this passes, okay, is what will it mean to the drivers?
What are the advantages that drivers will receive if this passes?
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So the reality for these drivers is that eighty percent
of all the trips are actually done by full time drivers.
So that means that this is the primary source of income.
And many have sied, and many of them have had
found themselves having to work up to seventy hours a week.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
And so.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Because the recent settlement from the AG, it with a
start in setting basic standards, but it didn't address the reality,
the full reality faced by these drivers and they it
didn't account for all the hours that they work, you know,
(11:15):
the wait time between rides. It didn't account for all that.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
What I'm really trying to figure out here because I
feel like you're reading some talking points to me, and
I'd prefer you to just talk to me. Let's assume
I'm a driver and you're trying to convince me to
vote yes on this. What will be the benefit for
the drivers? I know this and benefits just tell me
what they are, because I think it's important for people
to understand that talk to me, talk to.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Me, don't read.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
The drivers will be able to have to be able
to talk to the companies and actually have a voice
with the companies to talk around the issues they face
daily because literally they are struggling, they are hurting, they
don't have they don't make enough, you know, to bring
food at the table to make sure that they're not
facing eviction. These workers on the edge, they work paycheck
(12:02):
to paycheck, and they have invested a lot of their
own resources to even be able to start up working
for these app companies, and so they have a lot invested,
and yet they have a lot of insecurity because there's
a lot of issues working aside from the low pay
and the fact that these app companies have taken a
(12:24):
bigger share of the rights. As each year has passed
that they've been here in Massachusetts, drivers have been making
less and less and they feel very unprotected.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Because so let's asserve that a driver again, I think
you're giving me. I think the simple answer to be
honest with you, and a great selling point is for
the driver's perspective in unity their strength. If you're an
individual driver and you try to have a disagreement with
the owner of the company or the head whoever owns
uber or whatever. They're going to say, Hey, if you
(12:58):
don't want to drive for us, no problem. But if
they're united with a union, that's going to benefit all.
So let's let's leave it at that for now. What
does the average full time uber or lyft driver make
in Massachusetts? What what do they bring home in terms
of money? Give us an idea about that. Assuming they're
(13:18):
working a regular, you know, regular job forty forty five
hours a week, not crazy over time, what can they
make by working you know, a forty hour week? Correct?
Speaker 6 (13:29):
But they don't.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
The reality is that many have to work sixty seventy
eighty hours a week.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Then the people who are working sixty or seventy hours,
how much? How much? What? How many hours? What do
they make? That's what I'm trying to understand. IM making one.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Hundred thousands, and I appreciate your question. If it's the
reality is that what we hear from drivers is that
they're still at the end of the day, they're still
not making enough.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
No, I understand that, but can you give let me
ask you this, rock Sander, let me try this one. Okay,
can you give me a figure as to what I
can tell you that that you know what school teachers
make and you know the general I just general ideas.
I'm just curious if if someone wants to become a
ride share driver, and if they work hard, in which
they do okay, and they put a lot of expense,
(14:16):
They have to buy their own gasoline, they have to
buy their card, and no one gives them a card
to ride, how much do they make or can or
do you not want to tell me?
Speaker 4 (14:24):
No, it's just many of the drivers are still saying
they make less minimum wage after all the outer pocket
costs that they have to put in in order to
basically work for these app companies. And that's why it
is important, like you said, you made a good point about,
you know, have them having a voice on a job
collectively right to be able to improve their lives and
(14:45):
be able to h reach an agreement with these companies
that will lift up and improve their lives.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
How much of a turnover is there?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Again this I assume that there are some people who
have become a ride share driver and that it works
for their schedule and they basically that's what they do
full time, and whether it's a sixty hour week job,
or you know, most people think people work very few
people work forty hours in real life, as I'm sure
you know, I'm sure you work more than forty hours.
(15:19):
I know, I do, you know, it's I think the
idea of a forty hour work week is kind of
I don't know that it's there.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
There are some people who do. How much of a
turnover is there in this job?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
But people sticking with it because it's because of its
convenience even though it doesn't pay enough. Or are they
basically trying it for a year or two and then
saying I'm done with this, I'm going to go do
something else. What is there a lot of turnover in
this in this profession, in your in your experience.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
So the majority of driver, the majority rights are you know,
done by what you know, you'd call an actor driver,
not ones that are just doing it for a short
amount of time.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
And again, those that have been in this industry for years,
they've you know, it started out as profitable, right, they
were making enough to bring home, right, And then what's
happened is that the companies have just taken a bigger,
bigger share of divide and that's why they want you know,
that's why they're asking for folks to vote yes on three,
so that they have a pathway to a union. And
(16:20):
the turnover is, you know, there's still a lot of
turnover in an industry like this, because just right the
Department of Public Utilities report seventy thousand right share drivers
just in the state of Massachusetts, and so that is
a huge number. And it is, you know, a hard
industry in the sense of you're talking about there isn't
(16:41):
a common work site, there's no set schedule, right, and
so there's challenges to you know, workers coming together right
to address these issues. And so there's.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Also there's an independence to that.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
A lot of people who work in a factory and
have to show up at seven thirty every morning and
punch a clock and then they don't get up until
you know, three point thirty in the afternoon. So there's
some good things about being a right chaer driver. But
you're saying, I think that in unity their strength, and
if the right shaer drivers have the opportunity for a union,
(17:14):
just like the hotel workers, we've just seen an example
of the hotel workers strike here in Boston. They apparently
seem to be pretty happy with the contract that they
settled with some of the big hotels, some of the
luxury hotels.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
So you know this. Unions are actually a good thing.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And I know that not everyone agrees with that, Probably
a lot of business owners don't, but unions are a
good thing. It allows people to collectively bargaining. We'll take
a break. We're going to go to phone calls Roxane.
We'll get to some phone calls on the other side.
If you'd like to join the conversation and ask a question,
feel free. If you'd like to state how you feel.
And if you are a ride share driver, an Uber driver,
(17:54):
or a Lyft driver, this is an opportunity for you
to argue your point and try to convince people who
are in my listening audience to vote yes on question
three six months. The only lines open right now are
the six, one, seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty. I
hope to carry this conversation with my guest who rocks
(18:14):
in a rivera right through this hour up until ten o'clock,
So stick with us. More conversation and questions, questions.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I learned at this job.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
The best part about my job is that I get
to meet different people, whether they're callers or listeners or
or guests I can find out. I've never been a
ride share driver, but with these two interviews last night
and tonight, I feel that I understand the industry a
lot better. And that's that's beneficial to me because the
(18:47):
more that I know, the more that you're going to know,
and the more the more considered your vote's going to
be on these ballot issues this this November. We'll be
right back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Night Side with Dan on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
All right, we're gonna take some phone calls. My guest
is a union official with the s c i U,
Roxanna Rivera, and she's co chair of the Yes on
Question three committee. That question is headlined in that handy
dandy summary that you have from the conwealtha Massachusetts law
(19:25):
proposed by initiative petition Unionization for Transportation network Drivers.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Let's head to the phone is going to go to
Dwayne in Rossendale. Dwayne, you are first this hour on
night Side with Roxanna Revera. Go right ahead, Dwayne.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Hey, Dan, great to speak with it. Yeah. I'm a
uber driver, left driver. I've been driving for a little
close to ten years. I drive off and on. I
don't drive a regular schedule.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
But is it Let me ask you, Dwayne, is it
is it your full time job or do you do
you work it as a side hustle, a side hustle.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
I'm seventy two years old, and I need you know.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
It sounds seventy two. You got you got a young voice. Congratulations.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Well, well, I follow the Keith Richards program of Health,
nutrition and Exercise.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
So yeah, I've heard about that program, right.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Yeah, paid off in the end.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah yeah, okay, hope you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
Go ahead, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, I uh and uh,
you know, it's it's been changing. I suggest that if
they were to put the rates and everything back to
where it was in twenty fifteen, I think most people
would be happy. And it's not just so what let
me ask you this.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Just give me a couple of round figures here. When
you started working as a when they when they arrived
on the scene and you were working you know, forty
hours or whatever, it was. Okay, what were you making
back then compared to what you're making now for the
same amount of work. That's I just want to put
it in some numbers that people will understand.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Most of us.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You work, you get a little raise. Maybe you don't
get a raise, you get a little raise. I mean,
inflation is killing all of us, no doubt about that.
But just in terms of how much you would take
it home back ten years ago versus today for the
same amount of work, give me a rough idea.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Well, back then I was driving black car and suv
in the rates were three dollars and ninety five cents
a mile. Now it's a little about a dollar fifty
I could make.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
More than which is yeah, that's a good that's been
cut more than fifty percent.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
It's been cut in half.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
Yeah, yeah, and everything else has been going down as well.
Right now, I figure I make somewhere around thirty three
dollars an hour. I work in the city. Because I
live in the city, I work in the neighborhoods. There's not
a lot of downtime between pickups.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
But not a lot of launch trips either.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Oh, I avoid those. I avoid those right now are
in front of me. I've got a receipt from the
job I did the Manchester, New Hampshire. The passenger paid
ninety dollars and three cents. I earned forty nine dollars
and seventeen cents, So they took you know, forty dollars.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
And then you've got to drive back from Manchester.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Yeah, at ten o'clock at night. So I drove back empty. Right, sure,
it's one hundred figure, it's one hundred miles. I RS.
Lets me right off sixty seven cents a mile. That's
a loss. That's a that's a loss on paper. So
not only am I not making any money, I'm not
paying taxes either, you know, the communities. I mean, I
appreciate all your taxes because they give me good roads
(22:39):
to drive on in emergency services should they need them,
because I'm.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Not making so you like, So you like even though
they're cutting you back from three ninety five a mile
to a buck and a half a mile, you'd prefer
to do a whole bunch of shot short runs as
long as you stay within the one twenty eight area.
And when you when you take a job up to
New Hampshire, you think you said, oh beautiful, I'm going
to make a lot of money. Actually that's going to
(23:04):
be a loser for you.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, it's a big loser. In fact, they
don't even publish their rates anymore. They make it up
on the fly.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
I do understand they have surge price.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I know the surge pricing deal and all of that,
and it's a little bit, you know, a little bit
crazy for those of us who do occasionally take it
and over. But you know something, Dwayne, you explained the
dilemma that you're facing really well, and I think that
anybody who's out there will understand why you want to
get into into a union of right share drivers.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
This has to be settled down. We need we need
some we need some standardization of how much we're going
to earn, what the rates are. There are no rates.
If you're going to the airport, you're in no position
to negotiate. You've got to get there. And I'm finding
that my passengers who are going to the airport are
paying a lot more than what I get paid. There's
(24:00):
still a surge, but uber and Lyft are taking it.
They're not advertising it. And I recommend to passengers talk
to your driver, ask them how much they are getting
paid for this job. And I think you'll be surprised
that where the money's going.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, what is so what is a normal middle of
the day or whatever from downtown Boston to the airport.
That's only probably five or six miles max.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
Right, yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah, from downtown Boston.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, yeah, So how much and depending upon the day,
it's going to cost take time, a lot of time
or less time.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
What's the charge going to be? Roughly twenty bucks, twenty
five bucks more?
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Oh no, no, it could be anything from eight to
thirteen dollars from downtown back Bay, say back Bay, Cambridge,
he's Cambridge.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Okay, so that's a good deal.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
That is a good deal for the customer, but it's
horrible for the drivers.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
Yeah. Well, well I'm not sure how much the customers paying. Yeah,
we don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Oh you're saying you get anywhere between eight and thirteen.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Okay, fine, So the customer could be paying two or
three times that at least.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
Could be paying twice that maybe, Yeah, okay, yep.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
You know what's funny.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
When Uber came in back in whatever it was, twenty fifteen,
twenty sixteen, I was amazed that they were able to
come and basically we fled the city. The people who
really took it in the chops with the taxi cab drivers,
guys who had paid money, big money to have a
medallion and Uber didn't care about them. They rolled right
(25:37):
I was right, they rolled right over the What did
you pay for you? Well, did you own a medallion
or no?
Speaker 5 (25:44):
I did not know. I leased a cab, right, So what.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I'm saying you when you leased it, you were still
paying the person you know factored in there was how
much the medallion costume. Uber just came in and they
rolled over people, rolled over people. And the cabby's had
no organization, The cabvis just they were They rolled over them.
And now Uber is basically eating and you know, doing
(26:09):
the same thing through through its most valuable employees. They're
pretty they're pretty cutthroat.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Man. That's that you got reunion?
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Ye we do? We do?
Speaker 3 (26:19):
You got a question or comment from my guest Roxanna.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
No.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
I think what Duena's talking about is the reality is
so many drivers that we've talked through over the last
two years that they've just you know, seen the the
company is taking more and more of the share of
the ride, and that you know, and and there's other
issues that they have to also address. And being able
to be able to directly negotiate with these companies and
(26:44):
having drivers at the table is what's going to shape
and change this industry for the better, not just for
the drivers that I think for passengers too.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Do you think fears will go up for passengers?
Speaker 4 (26:58):
So I think that, just like Dwayne was saying, how
much of the share is right they've taken, you know,
we believe that they can take less and they're going
to want to remain competitive for their you know, to
keep their customers happy. And we think that they can
still pay drivers fairly given you know that they uphold
this whole industry every day for these Yeah, without.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Without the drivers, that there was no industry. You're right
on that, Dwayne. Great call. Thank you so much. You
gave us a lot of specifics. I'm sure you your
call convinced a lot of people that maybe they want
to vote yes on this.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Thanks Dwayne, I hope so favor. Keep listening to the show,
love to have you become a regular listener and regular caller.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
I will do that all right, Thank you, Dan.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Thanks to We take quick break, coming right back on
nice side, my guest Lexander Rivere.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Dwayne was good. Dwayne was good. You could tell he
was talking just from the heart. We'll take a quick break,
coming back on nights side. We'll try to get everybody in.
I promised there's one line that's open at six one,
seven thirty. Back on night Side with Dan Ray.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Now back to Dan Ray from the Window World night
Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Okay, folks, the lines are now packed and I have
a guest coming up at ten o'clock, so I'm going
to ask each of you to be as succinct as possible.
I wish all of you had called nine thirty. I
what it got you all in. Let's go right now too,
kehob In framing him. Eab you are next on Nightsiger, right.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Ahead, Yes, thank you so much for taking my call.
I have been driver for a long time now eighty years,
and our job really getting very difficult. All the expenses
on the shoulder of the drivers. I would like to
speak more about numbers. I have been listening to you,
but your time is very limited. But Dan, our job
(28:44):
is really extremely getting difficult. The drivers, they have no protection.
They can stop any driver anytime they want. The activation
is a nightmare for the drivers. And again with the insulation.
I used to drive a highlander, you know, putting like
four doughter gallen in my I reduce my car to
a priers. I'm a tall guy. I'm a five a
six five tall guy, So I reduce the prier just
(29:08):
to cut my expenses. And they are so greedy. When
I started, like eight years ago, they used to take
twenty percent and just as do when the first caller said,
they used to give good Baird mile and then we
use work like forty fifteen minutes. You can make a
living and bring the food in the table, put for
your family. Now we work seventy eighty hours and the
(29:28):
thing is done. This is a growth this is a
gross So what they're talking about now the Attorney general
lawsuit is the active hours. You know, to put active
hours done, you need to put double time. So when
they tell you like forty hours active hours, you put
sixty seventy. They don't talk about that. They don't talk
about your growth hours you're putting there down all the
(29:49):
expenses on the drivers we put, God, I pave my insurance,
my maintenance car, you name it, all of it. I
can see how this declining in the last eight years
is intense. The amount justice they're literally taken advantage of
these drivers majority as people of color, immigrants, English the
second language. Most of these drivers is my people, my community.
(30:09):
I know them very well. I'm originally from Sudan, from Africa.
I speak Arabic. I know the arm drivers, the Muslim driver,
the African drivers, all all of them. They tell me
the same thing. The Latin's drivers, the Chinese, they have
been struggling, is getting worse and worse. And as you
said at the beginning, done, I was listening to you,
our lawmakers, they fell us miserably. We had a right
(30:30):
shap driver, just as Bill. They could have just passed it.
Then they did not pass it. They did not do
the right things.
Speaker 7 (30:35):
And now.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
You that's why I was asking that question, because it
would have been a lot easier on a lot of
people if they had done the right thing quickly. They
have your call. Your call is an outstanding call. I
wish I had more time. I don't. I hope you
call me and continue to continue to listen to programmed.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
Oh will I will task to the drivers to this
intense tone, I will done.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Thank you. We I hope to meet you someday. Thank you,
my friend.
Speaker 6 (31:03):
Oh, thank you, Donki. We appreciate you.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
Don Kiyrosana.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Thanks by all right, let me go to Rachel.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Rachel, you gotta be I know you've been waiting a while, Rachel,
but I got a whole bunch of folks here.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
You gotta be a little quicker, I.
Speaker 8 (31:13):
Know, all right, I'm gonna be really really really quick.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
One.
Speaker 8 (31:19):
When you ask that woman that you are with and
ask what they make in hours, she did not answer.
My whole thing, I manage your companies. That's union. My
lineman went down and did whatever. So when you do
(31:41):
union stuff, now you get into federal state, whatever. But
if these guys or these drives are being hired by
these companies and not being paid, she never even said, what,
you know, the right is that they're being paid. But
(32:05):
then she's gonna open the can of worms if she's
gonna start union stuff.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
And I believe in union.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
I work for union companies.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
No, But I think I think that these drivers, Rachel,
I think that they have a right to unionize.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I think that they have no strength as an individual driver.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I I think it's Fairnish.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
You gotta you gotta make that negotiating table somewhat, you know, level.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
That's all that. I'm just trying to be fair, that's all.
Speaker 8 (32:33):
No, you listen, Dan, you know me and I'm trying
to be fair as well. Okay, it's what happens you
start unionizing. You gotta deal with the state. Oh and
then you have to background check, you have to do this,
and again you have you asked more than once what
(32:56):
are these guys making?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
So that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Look, my my, you know, I don't hound the guests,
but I but you know, I think she look I
like to give people the benefits of the doubt, Rachel.
And I think that Dwayne put it out there pretty clearly.
He said that they used to make three ninety five
a mile. Now they make a buck and a half
a mile. That's a big cause.
Speaker 8 (33:18):
I understand that, but it should be something else. So
if they're going traveling, it's it's a definitely unique situation.
But Dan, you know, unions now you gotta pay into
you start unionized.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
No, I'm a union member, Rachel. I know.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I've been a union member for a long time. I
was a shop steward and we we had tough negotiations.
I you know you, I am not in any way,
shape or form a post to unions.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
I'm a union person.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
So we can disagree on that you're in a management position.
I'm not smart enough to be in management, Okay, Rachel.
Speaker 8 (33:54):
I am union. I want these guys to get I.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Well, vote yes on three, vote yes on three, and
and give them a chance.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Okay. Uber's pretty cutthroat.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
It sounds to me like Uber and Lyft are kind
of having their own way, and I like I like fairness. Rachel,
I got a screwed. We did three minutes, which is
much longer than I could. But because you were regular,
you go a little longer.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Now. No, No, it was always good at different point
of view. Thanks so much. Okay, talk soon. Let me
go to Alan Boston.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Al, you gotta be quick for me so I can
get Susan from Jamaica plane into go ahead.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Al.
Speaker 7 (34:27):
Hey, damn hey, listen. One thing nobody's talking about is
uh the insurance of these drivers. Most of these drivers
only have regular auto insurance. There was an incident a
few years ago on ninety three and heading into the
city where a young girl was killed at college student
and come to find out, the insurance company renegged on
paying because it's a you know, higher higher come.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Basically they claimed that that the guy didn't buy commercial coverage.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
He had bought you know, regular personal insurance.
Speaker 7 (34:58):
Correct, and that that's tough.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, well again, you know, people try to people try
to cut corners, Okay, and I'm not saying it's right.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Roxan, A quick comment on that.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Do you think that that the drivers can maybe you know,
pay a little bit more for insurance when when everything
gets gets squared away here and they're getting a little
bit more money on their jobs.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
We want Those are types of issues that we need
to deal with right when we when when drivers actually
get to the process of actually having the option to
join the union and then being able to sit down
with the companies and talk about this because because safety
should be a priority, right. But the issue, the issue
is that it's it's these these app companies have shifted
the whole liability on the workers, right, and so that
(35:45):
that needs to change in order for this insight.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
I hope, I hope it does. And I think that's
concerned Command Dress. Now, I hate you to do this
year called in really late. I want to give Susan
about thirty seconds to Okay, thank you, my friend, thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Susan, and Jamaica Plan I forced to give you about
forty seconds.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Go ahead, Susan, what's.
Speaker 6 (36:02):
Your coming out?
Speaker 9 (36:04):
So I was confused by the ads, and then I
got my red books and the legal women voilters, and
I read the four and the against, and I read
the against, and it's the same old anti union stuff.
Oh you'll pay your money, you'll get nothing, blah blah
blah blah blah. And then I realized, who's on the
flour and Roxanne and the union she represents has ably
(36:24):
represented the lowest paid service workers in this city, building
cleaners and parking lot attendance, people who had nothing and
no representation. And that union has proved itself. It has
proved it can it can represent a low age, a
low age immigrant work for.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
You've done Gil too. You made an interesting point.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I would only ask you to call in earlier because
because once ten o'clock comes along, I got to say
good night, so we'll talk again, I hope. Okay, Thanks sir,
Thank you, jam Thank you very much. We got you
in at least a little bit. Roxana, thank you very much,
Best of luck. On November fifth, Question three, I think
that the driver should have right to unionize in my opinion,
(37:10):
and maybe later on you bring the other people in
as well. Thanks so much for being with us tonight
and thanks for dusting your schedule so we can.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Have you back to back with the other point of view.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Thanks so much, Roxanna, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Have a great night. Here comes to ten o'clock News.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
We're going to switch off focus, going to talk about
Israel're going to talk with the Boston attorney who was
there on October seventh and went back earlier this month
and comes back with stories about what's going on in
Israel right now. Israel under siege. It's a crazy situation
over there. And Jason Greenberg will join us right after
the ten o'clock News
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