October 29, 2024 • 38 mins
Massachusetts Ballot Question 4 ask voters whether to legalize certain natural psychedelics such as “magic mushrooms.” What’s your opinion on psychedelic substances? CJ LoConte from Massachusetts for Mental Health Options, the “Yes on 4″ group, joined Dan to discuss Question 4 and answer listener questions!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray i'ebs Costin's new radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Before we get to our guest this hour, just gonna
take one moment to give you an opportunity to win
a couple of tickets to see Celtic Thunder. If you
a caller ten, I'm gonna give you the number. Dial
away six one, seven nine three, one ten thirty. Now,
please do not take these tickets unless you're gonna use them,
(00:27):
because they have great tickets. Call on number ten right
now at six one, seven, nine three, one ten thirty.
We'll win two tickets to Celtic Thunder at the Premier
Theater at Foxwoods on November seventh. You set off on
a musical journey with the Irish music sensations Celtic Thunder Live.
Complete show information and tickets are available at Foxwoods dot com.
(00:51):
So the number to call is six one seven nineth three,
one ten thirty. Dan is simply gonna tell you a
call the number one and he'll hang up.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
He will.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
He will tell calling number ten. Yeah, you call it
number ten and you won. So he's gonna go right
to one, two, three, four, five, sixty seven eight nine.
And by the way, if you're calling number four, or
you calling number two? Are you calling number whatever? You
can call back and you can just if you're lucky ten.
It's almost like musical chairs. Six one seven, nine three,
(01:19):
one ten thirty. The lines are now open and Dan's
going to clear them as quickly as he can. Just
keep calling, and as soon as we get a winner,
he will let me know again. Two tickets to see
Celtic Thunder at the Premier Theater in Foxwoods Great great
great location, great great performance, November seventh. That's a week
(01:40):
from Thursday, and you have to call the contest line,
which is at this hour six.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
One seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. You'll win two.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Tickets to see Celtic Thunder at the Premier Theater at
Foxwood's on November seven, set off on a musical journey
with the Irish Music Sensations. I'm told it is a
great show. Celtic Thunder Live, Complete show information tickets available
at Foxwoods dot com. And as soon as we get
a winner at that number six one, seven, nine thirty.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
We will let you know.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
In the meantime, I'm going to introduce my guest this
hour and I am delighted to be joined tonight by
with a young man who I spent some time talking
with today, CJ.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Leconte.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
He's from the group called Massachusetts for Mental Health Options.
They are supporting a yes vote on ballot question number four.
And by the way, I'm told we have a winner,
so you can stop dialing. We'll give away tickets tomorrow night,
Thursday night, and Friday night, also right after the nine
o'clock news. So if you didn't make it tonight, you've
(02:46):
still got three more shots tomorrow night, Thursday and Friday night.
So CJ. Laconte, CJ. First of all, welcome to Night's
at How are you tonight?
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I'll doing great, Dan, thank you for having me. Congrats
to the winner of the Telvision.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Absolutely, those are good tickets.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So Jay, you are probably going to shadow the stereotype
that some people might have of somebody who is a
one of the spokespeople from Massachusetts for Mental Health Options
voting yes on question four. Question four is described as
a law proposed by initiative petition limited legalization and regulation
(03:28):
of certain natural psychedelic substances. First of all, tell us
what is meant by natural psychedelic substances. We have had
a conversation of about ten days ago, twelve days ago
now with a doctor from Toft's University of Tufts Medical School,
(03:51):
doctor Messir Gami, and he is opposed to question four.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
But tell us what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And then I'm want to know what your experience is
and what brought you to this point in your life
where you were advocating for the legalization and regulation of
certain natural psychedelic substances.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Yeah. Absolutely, having to dive into that. So the natural substances,
I mean, it's not a synthetically derived substance if it's
from a plant or a fung gui based and you
know what we're seeing. I mean, we can get it.
We'll get into this later. But what we're kind of seeing,
because it is a very nascent space, a very tricky
(04:33):
space to kind of get into. What we're seeing from
the FDA clinical trials going there is that there's synthetically
derived versions of these substances, of these psychedelic substances going
through clinical trials. Now, what we're talking about is the
natural natural fungi based plant medicines that have long histories
(04:55):
of traditional, traditional and indigenous use that date back millennium.
They have extremely low addiction potential almost none, and there's
no known lethal dose for these natural substances.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
So yeah, yeah, well we're not talking about what people
would think of as LSD and doctor Timothy Leary type stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Correct, Yeah, LSD is not on the is not on
yes on four, it's it's yeah. So it's a psilocybin silicen,
which is the active metabolite of psilocybin, and I can
get into that, but it's a psiloicibin pilicen mescaline d
MT and I began.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Okay, so you know a lot about this because you've
experienced this, as I understand it.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
But your background is interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
You're a local guy who went to West Point, graduated
from West Point. Tell us about your time in the
military and what you've done subsequent to your time in
the military.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Absolutely, so. I graduated from West Point in twenty seventeen
as an infantry officer. My first duty assignment was out
at four Cars in Colorado, where I had the opportunity
to deploy as a rifle portune leader. You know, I
think it was the greatest honor and privilege of a
lifetime to leave thirty six soldiers in the deployed environment.
It was also really the first time that I, you know,
(06:22):
saw the devastating toll of mental health firsthand.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
While we were overseas, I had four soldiers attempts suicide
in one of which I unfortunately witnessed when we were
over there. You know, not even six months after getting back,
we did tragically lose one two suicide. You know, I
think as leaders, we reflect the praise and shoulder the blame.
And that suicide really hit me hard. At my next assignment,
(06:46):
you know, I began really having nightmares, started lashing out,
my marriage started suffering, and I just spought to myself
that this will get better when I get out, when
the uniform comes off, it'll be all sunshine, rainbows, right,
and be more wrong. I got out in about two
year or a little over two years ago now, in
(07:07):
March of twenty twenty two, and was going to business school.
The world should have been, you know, all all great,
but it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I was on nine different medications through the VA and
was spiraling, you know, and just completely numb to the
world and incapacitated with apathy, and you know, I think
and the worst part about kind of My story is
that I did what I was told to do right.
(07:35):
Like I I followed the quote unquote orders right. I
went to the VA. I sought out help and want
to help you get you know, is a ten minute
medication management appointment every quarter and nine different medications to
keep track of. When that doesn't work, you start to
think that you're the problem. You start to think what's
(07:56):
the point of even trying? Right? And Yeah, went into
my uh second semester at business school, I I started
having some suicidal ideation. It was actually hospitalized at the
Philadelphia v A with that suicidal ideation. And yeah, that
was a low point. I've never been more kind of dehumanized, abandoned, alone,
afraid ever in my life. And it's actually in that.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Moment, we'd we'll be deployed overseas.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Middle least Kuwait, Jordan, Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And that was still, uh it might not have been
a hot zone, but it certainly was a zone where
you had to be careful. And uh uh you were
you you were not in the in the in the
comforting arms of the the the U s A. You
were you were in in the territory and a part
of the world where bad things could happen.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Correct, Yeah, correct, we uh, there were some tricky situations
over there, yes.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Okay, And because of what you witness is really impacted you.
I want to take a break and I want to
talk about how you came to find some help with
these psychedelics, and also invite people to call and join
the conversation. My understanding is that this, of all the
(09:18):
ballot questions, the polling that has been done on this
question is the one that is as close close to
fifty to fifty as any. We will have a conversation
on Friday night at nine o'clock. I spoke with you
earlier about this, and talked with doctor Nasa Nasa Gami
(09:41):
earlier this evening, and we'll spend about an hour on
Friday night at nine o'clock with both of you in
a conversation, not a debate, but a conversation.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
But I want to give you an.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Opportunity tonight to take as many questions as possible and
explain why you feel this is a frontier at which
we as a society have arrived, and why it is
something that will be beneficial to you and others, not
something that everybody should be doing. This is this is
(10:15):
not as a broad based and I want to make
sure people understand that as well. Give you a chance
to explain that tonight and also a couple of nights
from now when we have both points of view, when
we bring both points of view together, which I think
is an important an important hour for people to hear.
We'll be back on night's side. You have the numbers, folks,
(10:35):
six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty or six
one seven, nine three one ten thirty if you'd like
to speak with my guest. He is a veteran military
veteran graduate of West Point, has an NBA from the
Wharton School, and is currently going to the Kennedy School
of Government.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And he's he's he's just twenty nine years old. And
although twenty nine and I'm sure seems pretty old to him,
for those of us who have passed that age and
long past that age, we realize that he has an
entire life in front of him. He has sacrificed and served,
and he finds some help with these psychedelics. And I
(11:17):
think that he is a very effective spokesperson, just as
doctor n Sergami is a very effective spokesperson on the
other side of this issue, and it's an issue that
I think people should think about long and hard in advance.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
If they haven't voted already. We'll be back on nights.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I feel free to join the conversation right after a
couple of messages.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World
to Night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
My guest is CJ. Leconti, West Point graduate in twenty seventeen,
served in the military, was deployed overseas, and while he
was there, he witnessed some things that most of us
would never witness in our life a lifetime. And he
has seen and himself suffered from suicidal ideation. And he
(12:11):
has participated and received these natural psychedelic substances, and he
swears that they.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Have helped him.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
How were you able to legally be treated with these
It's they're only legal, I believe in. You told me
two states oregone in Colorado, correct, tell us, tell us
the procedure and what did it do for you? Positively?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yeah? So, I mean just a back up like I
was because of the way the laws are in this country.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
I was.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I was in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania, right and and it
wasn't legal there at the time, and I was in
my lowest point in that locked unit in Thesilydia, and
the doctor there told me two things, right. He told me, One,
this medication cocktail that you're on, the nine different pills
that you're on is a lethal mix. This will literally
kill you if you continue taking them. And then two
(13:03):
he told me you should really try psychedelics. And that
was that was the guidance that I got because he
told me he couldn't tell me what to do for
fear of losing his license, essentially right. So so I
was left in the dark, essentially right and literally right,
(13:25):
And I'm, you know, very particular about what I put
in my body one and two fair to say, relatively
straight edged. I didn't even drink in high school and
I'm kind of a loser in that way. Ah, So
I was completely taken it back, thank you, but just
taking a back right, like I'm being told to take psychedelics,
(13:47):
which are to me this thing that the hippie fringes
of society did in the sixties. Right, I'm like, dude,
what are you talking about? Right? And long story short,
I really dug into the research and was justmpletely blown away.
I did just study after study after study from very
reputable places JOHNS Hopkins, NTU, Imperial College to London, and
(14:09):
learned a lot about how to do this. The thing
was is that I couldn't get into a clinical trial.
I didn't have the money to go overseas, so what's left? Right?
Luckily I had my my wife who's an icy universe,
and I was able to procure you know, it's for
(14:32):
those listeners. And I don't know if you know as well,
like it's legal or student I legal is decriminalized for
unlimited cultivation right now, and the municipalities in Massachusetts already
and a plethora of other cities throughout the United States.
So it's it's accessible, right, it is what I'm getting at.
So I was able to access it myself and have
(14:53):
a controlled experience at home with my wife who's a
healthcare profession and that experience completely and yeah, it's saved
my life. Saved my life, bar like no question, save
my life.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
How long? How long is the experience? Is it like
a couple of hours? Is it a day? How long is.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
It a couple of nights? It's yeah, roughly four to
six hours for sillim speaking about psilocybin mushrooms and.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
And and do you need another person they.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Are with you ideally, yes, absolutely, And in the regulated
framework that's being pushed forward, yeah, it's best to have
a someone there to administer it for you and help
guide you through the experience. They act as a real
grounding force for you when you're in you know, in
the in the medicine, in the experience.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
What does this what does this product do to you
during that experience? In other w it's this is something
that that you feel and you literally feel, you know,
like you the world is spinning or is it something
that you basically endure.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
It's a relatively pleasant experience.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And when you come out of it, your view of
yourself and the world is a.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
More positive one. How would you describe it that way?
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I mean, that's a I think describing the psychedelic experience.
It's very ineffable. It's really really challenging and I've tried
a lot, believe me, and how to describe it. It's
kind of unlike anything. It's not you know, it's not
like drinking alcohol and getting a buzz. It's not like smoking,
you know, anything like that. It's there are visual components
(16:38):
of it. There are like some hallucinations. You know, that's
like a scary word, but it's not that you're not
going to like see a demon, right. And for me,
I was I again, this is sounds odd, but I
my grandfather passed away when I was twelve, and he
(16:59):
was like my rock, my mentor, my coach, my biggest fan.
And I met him in my experience and he at
the time, right, I had such a low view of myself,
like I hated myself, right, Like I was thinking of
killing myself. And I felt so alone, you know, right,
I felt like just on an island of my mind,
(17:21):
in my in my mind. And and he took me
through my different parts of my life and showed me,
you know, oh one ye're four. Look at how loved
and supported you are at this birthday party. Look at
how loved and supported you are at this lacrosse tournament
when you're eleven. Right, And they was just showing me
how all of these dots were connected throughout my life.
(17:41):
And and I, yeah, I don't know, I don't know
how to describe it as it was.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I have to ask you this CJ Okay, guys, I'm
sure people in the audience. Do you feel that through
this experience you met with your grandfather in what for
him would be in afterlife?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Or do you feel that your mind was released so
things that your grandfather probably had told you when you
were four and when you were eleven, uh, were positively reinforced.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
That's a great question. That's a great question. And and honestly,
I've been grappling with that a lot myself. Candidly, I
I I I do believe it's a little bit of
the ladder, you know, Uh he has you know I
he yeah, I mean he was. He was that guy,
(18:36):
you know, my mentor and told me all of these
lessons throughout my entire life, you know, play the game
the right way, hand the ball the rest when you score,
celebrate with her boys in the locker room after the game, right,
And it was just a class act and and kind
of instilled all those lessons in me, uh, from from
my time growing up. But but I yeah, I I
(18:56):
I don't know. I wish that I did. I've definitely
been grappling with not a lot myself.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
All right, let me take the pressure off you here
for a second, and let's we got to go to
a newscast, and in the meantime, we're going to invite
people to call six one, seven thirty, Triple eight, nine
to nine, ten thirty, six one seven, nine thirty. Feel
free call if you have a question, that's great. If
you have if you want to make an argument to
(19:22):
the pro con that's fine. But I'd like you to focus,
be guest focused, is what I'm asking my callers to
do this evening. We will have a conversation on Friday night, uh,
forty eight hours from now, actually, excuse me.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
More than forty seventy two hours from now.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Let me get my math right here Friday night at
nine o'clock with CJ uh and with doctor Gami who
who was with us about ten days ago, Doctor Nasier
Gami UH, who takes.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
A very different view of this.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And it will be a civil conversation, not a debate,
kind of a discussion, conversation, and we hope that will
help you decide as to how you want are going
to vote on ballot initiative question. For as you can tell,
my guest CJ. Lacanti feels very definitely yes and doctor
(20:15):
Gami expressed very definite no. So there's not probably a
lot of overlap and agreement, but I think we'll have
a great conversation on Friday night at nine o'clock. Back
on Nightside with my guest, who's a yes vote on
proposition for a limited legalization and regulation of certain natural
(20:36):
psychedelic substances.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
CJ. Laconte. Back on Nightside after.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
This, You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w
B Boston's news radio.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
My guest the CJ. Leconte.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
He's a graduate of West Point, has an NBA from
the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. He's currently
enrolled at the Kennedy School of Government, and he is
an advocate for Question four on the Massachusetts ballot this fall.
Let us get right to phone calls and we'll talk
(21:11):
to as many people as we can between now and
ten o'clock. Let me start off with Thomas and Quincy. Thomas,
your first this hour on night Side with my guest, CJ.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Leconte.
Speaker 7 (21:25):
Hi, guys, should I turn the radio the speaker of.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I think it's a good idea as sure that My
producer Dan told you to turn that radio down because
you'll be distracted if you right.
Speaker 7 (21:38):
Right now, go ready ahead, tight, I'm Thomas. Hi, mister
Dan Ry, first and foremost, you are one of DCL men,
right that carried the radio news, but you carried the
television news with that redhead flat top. But anyway, we
get to mister C representative for possibly alternative H treatment
(22:07):
for Depression obsession PTSD and and the kind and the like.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, I think that you you kind of have have
covered the waterfront here? Do you do you have a
question for for my guest?
Speaker 7 (22:25):
You said that I covered the waterfront. I am a
long showman and I was gonna bring that up the
last strike. I've been a long showman for twenty two years.
I suffer from PTSD. My question is this, Uh, I'm
microdos right, Ah.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I don't know what microdose means? What what what are
you referring.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
To is a small amount of psilocybin?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, that I was involved that everybody else was involved in.
Speaker 7 (23:02):
Dan Mister Dan, Mister Dan Ray, I would never tell
you that, uh micro dosing. H. We have to find equilibrium,
right and tripping and all that and masculine. I tell
you I suffer from PTSD. I don't know. Maybe I
(23:23):
don't know. I suffer from a loss. I don't know. Maybe,
But have.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
You talked to you doctor, Tom?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Have you talked with a psychologist or have you sought
professional help?
Speaker 7 (23:37):
No, I don't have a PCP, a PHP. I don't
have that because I only lost by seventy hours if
I could have had that.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
But no, But Tom, just listen to me for a second.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I'm asking you whether or not you've ever, you know,
gone to a psychologist, a psychiatrist and talked about your problems.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
How did you get No, that's a big note. Okay, enough, No,
I have it.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
Unfortunately, I have it, and I think that's my next step.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I hope, I hope it has to be.
Speaker 7 (24:11):
Of Course, I'm a proactive guy. I'm not calling to
bring the show down. I'm calling it to let's let's
let's look at these alternative roots.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Because okay, so you're on the Yeah, okay, c J One,
Why did you say?
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Yeah, absolutely, Thomas, thank you so much for for calling
him in and really appreciate it. I think that, yeah, yeah,
and and and really apparent and really appreciate the work
that you do and can can sympathize with the with
their situation. Brother, I mean I wasn't very similar waves.
You know, we all no, no, yeah, exactly. We all
(24:57):
struggle here and and uh, you know, not being able
to reach out to anybody, or not feeling like you
can reach out to anybody, not even have it. I
mean I when I got out of the military, I
had no idea how to you set up an appointment
with a PCP, let alone, how to find a therapist,
you know what I mean. So I definitely feel you
there and and rough tough. Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
I mean I think that's why I have undiagnosed PTSD,
undiagnosed mental illness.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
In the like.
Speaker 7 (25:25):
And but listen, a show like this, mister dan Ray,
you are on the cutting edge, avant god of mental
health and awareness.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
I'm going to hang out.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I appreciate it, and I hope you continue to listen.
Thank you right back at you.
Speaker 7 (25:46):
Absolutely well, well, can I get that.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
For first time?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Call always here, We'll get the digital audience laws here absolutely.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
Mister cg a West point to thank you for your.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Good night.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well, as you can see, there are a lot of
people out there who might benefit from this. Let's continue
our conversation. Let me go to Andrea and act and
she's been holding on a long time Andrew, I'm going
to get you in here before the commercial break right ahead.
Speaker 8 (26:20):
Thank you for yourself and the prior an for serving
our contry. I'm sure it's not easier, you know, coming
back with sometimes the way that America is right now.
I'm sorry for the trauma that you went through. So
I'm a healthcare professional and I really believe in anything
that treats or helps anyone with depression or any kind
(26:43):
of always moss, so my understanding, and please correct me
if a yes vote says that you can form an
advisory committee for regulation. Yeah, and then number two was
is anyone over twenty and can grow, use or possess?
So I guess my question is why not just allow
(27:06):
it an inpatient setting? Why take the chance of allowing
someone to have hallucinations on the outside If there's no
regulation committee at this time, like, why not take the
step to have a committee and then have studies and
then all loot once it's you know, people aren't jumping
in front of trains, are seeing bats flying or you know.
(27:29):
And I know that the VA, unfortunately is very very
you know, it's a difficult place because there's so you know,
healthcare today it's just very difficult to you know, there's
so many people trying to get into.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
The system, but it's not the most supportive.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
A great question, Andrea. Let's let's see J respond to that.
It's a it's a great question. Go ahead, c J. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
So why the home grow is is in the ballot measure? Is?
I mean, it's the AMAS official recommendation is for the
elimination of all criminal penalties for possession of psychedelics for
personal use. And in fact, I would actually argue that
the home Growth provision is actually providing a framework to
what is already happening all around us right here in Massachusetts,
(28:19):
you know, I mean eight municipalities have already allowed unlimited
cultivation for personal use. So what this ballot measure does
is actually standardize and narrow those parameters on a statewide basis.
And there haven't been any issues in those eight municipalities yet.
(28:39):
And I think that the criminalization of natural psychedelics really
fuels the black market. It does not prevent people from
accessing psychedelics, but it does force them to navigate a
very risky underground market or travel out of state or
to a different country. And you know what this does,
(29:01):
is it allows people to have an open and honest
conversation with health care providers such as yourself. You know,
for me personally, I wasn't able to talk to a
doctor about this because when I tried to open up about, hey,
I'm thinking about taking psychedelics, I was told, don't talk
about that, You're going to take your your VA benefits
are going to get taken away.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
So so what this does is allow people to have
those conversations with their doctors and then, you know, God forbid, right,
something does go wrong when you are under the influence
of a psychedelic and you need help, isn't it better
to make the call to an EMT, make the call
to nine one one without the fear of being arrested
(29:44):
without you know. So that's kind of that. That's kind
of why the Home grow Personal Use Provision is in
the in the balot no no, and thank you.
Speaker 8 (29:54):
I get the whole regulations over regulations, over regulation, but
why haven't they already sent up an advisory com many
who have tested, you know, especially here in Boston and
Massachusetts with Harvard and m I T and others, to
make sure that it's safe.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Well, there's a real that's a real political question. Andrea,
let me tell you, the legislature probably is not going
to be on a cutting edge on something like that.
And I think that there's a lot within the medical community,
and we'll talk with them, uh doctor Nasa Gami, uh
with with CJ on Friday night, and I hope you'll
listen at nine o'clock, because, uh, this is not a
(30:36):
drug that's recognized by the DEA. It's still on as
I understand that, and I'm not an expert, it's on
the DEA uh proscribed list.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
And as a consequence, a lot of doctors and a lot.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Of medical institutions don't want to jeopardize their their relationship
with the government by getting involved in something like this.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Fair statement, c J.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Question, I question.
Speaker 7 (30:56):
One thing you can get it in patient?
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Is that correct? And go in the sight?
Speaker 7 (31:01):
No? No, no, no, okay.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
No, yeah, that's wheah you have to yeah, yeah, you
have SJ.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
It was my characterization fear in terms of why the
hesitancy of the medical establishment.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Probably oh yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (31:18):
And young kids though, we're going to be responsible not
to pass it on to like high school kids. It's
their only twenty one I guess I don't trying to
say yeah, well.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Again, we're probably gonna probably Andrews, I'm up way past
my break because I didn't want you to hold on
much longer, and unfortunately I have.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
To take a break.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But we're going to get back to this on Friday
night with both points of view with CJ along with
doctor nir got me of tough medical uh, and we'll
we'll go to some of these questions and if you feel,
because you have a real interest in this, you want
to get involved in calling on Friday night, you're more
than not going to do that as well.
Speaker 8 (31:57):
Okay, Oh, thank you, and thank you J.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
I'm so thank you much.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's Andrew back on Nightside six one seven thirty six
Month seven nine thirty will conclude this this hour with
my guest c J. Leconte again West Point graduate has
a degree from Wharton and NBA from Wharton and is
currently at the Kennedy.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
School and he is dealing with and an.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Advocate for psychedelic substances, the the limited legalization and regulation
which is question for in the Massachusetts ballot this fall.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Back on Nightside right after.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
This, now back to Dan ray Line from The Window World.
Night Side studios on w b Z the news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I'm going to get one more caller in here, and
that is Patrick from Charlestown. Patrick, you're on with with
my guest c J. Lacontent do write hid Patrick?
Speaker 7 (32:53):
How you doing?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
C J?
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Hey, Patrick, We're good.
Speaker 7 (32:57):
How you doing?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Little T tell you what your question of comment?
Speaker 9 (33:01):
My My question in comment CJ is a you know,
I'm a I'm gonna lie of the Kennedy school myself,
and I have to say, CJ, I'm disappointed in you. No,
I don't think any reasonable person believes the way.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Let's take it a judgment free zone tonight. Patrick. Okay,
you don't really know him.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
You don't know, but he's yeah, I don't know that.
You have that right to be disappointed. You can disagree
with him, but don't be disappointed. Go right ahead.
Speaker 9 (33:27):
Well, I do have a right to say I've dealt
with a lot of the carnage of the drug crisis
in Massachusetts and seeing what it's led to and and listen, listen,
mister Laconti, you're going to be remembered like Francis Forbes
in the Sackler family. When we have people who are
suffering from mental breakdowns and suicides and deaths resulting from this,
(33:49):
and you will be long gone with Uh what did
you You formed an LLC? Right, you formed an LLC
to to profit from this, Right, it's formed that. What
what's it? Out of Duxbury? So that's your LC? Listen Loo, Kanti, Lookanti,
we're onto you, buddy. You're going to kill him? O?
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, you know what, Patrick?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
You want to make it personally, we'll a little end
the conversation. You got the plank ready there. I think
Patrick needs to take a swim. It would be very
very helpful, I think to get him going. Here we go, Patrick,
enjoy see Jay. I have no idea what what that
gentleman was referring to making some pretty interesting allegations. We
(34:32):
have no idea who he is, no idea what his
experience is. You have explained your experience to us fully
and totally. It's pretty clear to me that from your
life experience, this is something that that you feel very
deeply about. And I'm sorry that I ended on what
I would call a negative note, but as I said
(34:53):
to my producer before we put Patrick on, I said,
Patrick is always it's one of these guys who is
often mistaken, but never in doubt. He will have a
strong point of view whatever the issue is. And I
figured he's either going to be one hundred percent behind
you or he's going to accuse you of all sorts
of skull dodgery and motivation. Uh. And I just if
(35:16):
you want to address anything that he said to feel
free if if you don't, we can just move on.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
No, I mean disappointed in me for seeking out, healing
and saving my life. So yeah, I you know, I
take that for what it is. I think that's an
interesting and interesting.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I suspect that that you would be more than happy
to compare your military service and your academic records with Patrick.
That's the thing that's beautiful. The callers can remain anonymous
in these programs CJ. And even even with the caution
of telling him that, I don't know how he has
a right to be disappointed in someone. There's a lot
(35:58):
of people who I disagree with on different issues, but
I've never felt so superior to other people then I
would say I'm disappointed. I might disagree with someone, but
it's just it's just if folks. If folks want more
information on the yes position, and we will have you
with us on Friday Night with doctor Gami.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
And if you have any questions on how that's going
to go, I explained to today, feel free to reach
back to me, as doctor Gami is more than willing,
uh more than able to reach back to me as well.
It'll be a civil and a polite conversation and there'll
be no spurious allegations against against anyone. How can folks
get in touch with the Yes Yes on four committee?
Speaker 3 (36:43):
If if such a committee exists?
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Uh? Yes on four? Is uh m a for mental
health uh dot org. So that's m a f O
R mental health dot org And uh yeah, that's probably
the best way to get involved. Yeah. I would say
I would give out my email and you could reach
out directly to me. But I don't know if people
(37:07):
like Patrick Patrick out there, I might take that back now,
So but yeah you can.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, no, I think go through the group and go
through the institution.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
And it's just disappointing that people, uh, you know, through
the anonymity of a telephone call, they can make allegations
which have no basis in fact, and even if there's
a basis in fact for them to question someone's motive
it's totally unfair. So I apologize for Patrick, but probably
not the first or the last time I'll have to
(37:37):
apologize for him. And I'll look forward to talking with
you and doctor Gammy on on Friday night at nine o'clock.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Thanks so much, CJ.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
You so much appreciate it, and thank you, and thank
you very much for your service.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
By the way that I should.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Have well, thank you for your service.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
We'll be back here. Thanks again, Patrick, CJ.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
We'll be back on night side and we're going to
talk right after the ten o'clock news at Emerson College.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Poster Spencer Kimball.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
There's an election next week, and around this time next
Tuesday night, we may have a pretty good idea who's
going to be the next president of the United States.
We might get a little bit of an insight from
Spencer right after the ten o'clock news.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
We're calling all people of interest in politics right after
the ten
It's Night Side with Dan Ray i'ebs Costin's new radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Before we get to our guest this hour, just gonna
take one moment to give you an opportunity to win
a couple of tickets to see Celtic Thunder. If you
a caller ten, I'm gonna give you the number. Dial
away six one, seven nine three, one ten thirty. Now,
please do not take these tickets unless you're gonna use them,
(00:27):
because they have great tickets. Call on number ten right
now at six one, seven, nine three, one ten thirty.
We'll win two tickets to Celtic Thunder at the Premier
Theater at Foxwoods on November seventh. You set off on
a musical journey with the Irish music sensations Celtic Thunder Live.
Complete show information and tickets are available at Foxwoods dot com.
(00:51):
So the number to call is six one seven nineth three,
one ten thirty. Dan is simply gonna tell you a
call the number one and he'll hang up.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
He will.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
He will tell calling number ten. Yeah, you call it
number ten and you won. So he's gonna go right
to one, two, three, four, five, sixty seven eight nine.
And by the way, if you're calling number four, or
you calling number two? Are you calling number whatever? You
can call back and you can just if you're lucky ten.
It's almost like musical chairs. Six one seven, nine three,
(01:19):
one ten thirty. The lines are now open and Dan's
going to clear them as quickly as he can. Just
keep calling, and as soon as we get a winner,
he will let me know again. Two tickets to see
Celtic Thunder at the Premier Theater in Foxwoods Great great
great location, great great performance, November seventh. That's a week
(01:40):
from Thursday, and you have to call the contest line,
which is at this hour six.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
One seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. You'll win two.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Tickets to see Celtic Thunder at the Premier Theater at
Foxwood's on November seven, set off on a musical journey
with the Irish Music Sensations. I'm told it is a
great show. Celtic Thunder Live, Complete show information tickets available
at Foxwoods dot com. And as soon as we get
a winner at that number six one, seven, nine thirty.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
We will let you know.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
In the meantime, I'm going to introduce my guest this
hour and I am delighted to be joined tonight by
with a young man who I spent some time talking
with today, CJ.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Leconte.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
He's from the group called Massachusetts for Mental Health Options.
They are supporting a yes vote on ballot question number four.
And by the way, I'm told we have a winner,
so you can stop dialing. We'll give away tickets tomorrow night,
Thursday night, and Friday night, also right after the nine
o'clock news. So if you didn't make it tonight, you've
(02:46):
still got three more shots tomorrow night, Thursday and Friday night.
So CJ. Laconte, CJ. First of all, welcome to Night's
at How are you tonight?
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I'll doing great, Dan, thank you for having me. Congrats
to the winner of the Telvision.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Absolutely, those are good tickets.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So Jay, you are probably going to shadow the stereotype
that some people might have of somebody who is a
one of the spokespeople from Massachusetts for Mental Health Options
voting yes on question four. Question four is described as
a law proposed by initiative petition limited legalization and regulation
(03:28):
of certain natural psychedelic substances. First of all, tell us
what is meant by natural psychedelic substances. We have had
a conversation of about ten days ago, twelve days ago
now with a doctor from Toft's University of Tufts Medical School,
(03:51):
doctor Messir Gami, and he is opposed to question four.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
But tell us what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And then I'm want to know what your experience is
and what brought you to this point in your life
where you were advocating for the legalization and regulation of
certain natural psychedelic substances.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Yeah. Absolutely, having to dive into that. So the natural substances,
I mean, it's not a synthetically derived substance if it's
from a plant or a fung gui based and you
know what we're seeing. I mean, we can get it.
We'll get into this later. But what we're kind of seeing,
because it is a very nascent space, a very tricky
(04:33):
space to kind of get into. What we're seeing from
the FDA clinical trials going there is that there's synthetically
derived versions of these substances, of these psychedelic substances going
through clinical trials. Now, what we're talking about is the
natural natural fungi based plant medicines that have long histories
(04:55):
of traditional, traditional and indigenous use that date back millennium.
They have extremely low addiction potential almost none, and there's
no known lethal dose for these natural substances.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
So yeah, yeah, well we're not talking about what people
would think of as LSD and doctor Timothy Leary type stuff.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Correct, Yeah, LSD is not on the is not on
yes on four, it's it's yeah. So it's a psilocybin silicen,
which is the active metabolite of psilocybin, and I can
get into that, but it's a psiloicibin pilicen mescaline d
MT and I began.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Okay, so you know a lot about this because you've
experienced this, as I understand it.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
But your background is interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
You're a local guy who went to West Point, graduated
from West Point. Tell us about your time in the
military and what you've done subsequent to your time in
the military.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Absolutely, so. I graduated from West Point in twenty seventeen
as an infantry officer. My first duty assignment was out
at four Cars in Colorado, where I had the opportunity
to deploy as a rifle portune leader. You know, I
think it was the greatest honor and privilege of a
lifetime to leave thirty six soldiers in the deployed environment.
It was also really the first time that I, you know,
(06:22):
saw the devastating toll of mental health firsthand.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
While we were overseas, I had four soldiers attempts suicide
in one of which I unfortunately witnessed when we were
over there. You know, not even six months after getting back,
we did tragically lose one two suicide. You know, I
think as leaders, we reflect the praise and shoulder the blame.
And that suicide really hit me hard. At my next assignment,
(06:46):
you know, I began really having nightmares, started lashing out,
my marriage started suffering, and I just spought to myself
that this will get better when I get out, when
the uniform comes off, it'll be all sunshine, rainbows, right,
and be more wrong. I got out in about two
year or a little over two years ago now, in
(07:07):
March of twenty twenty two, and was going to business school.
The world should have been, you know, all all great,
but it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
You know.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I was on nine different medications through the VA and
was spiraling, you know, and just completely numb to the
world and incapacitated with apathy, and you know, I think
and the worst part about kind of My story is
that I did what I was told to do right.
(07:35):
Like I I followed the quote unquote orders right. I
went to the VA. I sought out help and want
to help you get you know, is a ten minute
medication management appointment every quarter and nine different medications to
keep track of. When that doesn't work, you start to
think that you're the problem. You start to think what's
(07:56):
the point of even trying? Right? And Yeah, went into
my uh second semester at business school, I I started
having some suicidal ideation. It was actually hospitalized at the
Philadelphia v A with that suicidal ideation. And yeah, that
was a low point. I've never been more kind of dehumanized, abandoned, alone,
afraid ever in my life. And it's actually in that.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Moment, we'd we'll be deployed overseas.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Middle least Kuwait, Jordan, Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
And that was still, uh it might not have been
a hot zone, but it certainly was a zone where
you had to be careful. And uh uh you were
you you were not in the in the in the
comforting arms of the the the U s A. You
were you were in in the territory and a part
of the world where bad things could happen.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Correct, Yeah, correct, we uh, there were some tricky situations
over there, yes.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Okay, And because of what you witness is really impacted you.
I want to take a break and I want to
talk about how you came to find some help with
these psychedelics, and also invite people to call and join
the conversation. My understanding is that this, of all the
(09:18):
ballot questions, the polling that has been done on this
question is the one that is as close close to
fifty to fifty as any. We will have a conversation
on Friday night at nine o'clock. I spoke with you
earlier about this, and talked with doctor Nasa Nasa Gami
(09:41):
earlier this evening, and we'll spend about an hour on
Friday night at nine o'clock with both of you in
a conversation, not a debate, but a conversation.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
But I want to give you an.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Opportunity tonight to take as many questions as possible and
explain why you feel this is a frontier at which
we as a society have arrived, and why it is
something that will be beneficial to you and others, not
something that everybody should be doing. This is this is
(10:15):
not as a broad based and I want to make
sure people understand that as well. Give you a chance
to explain that tonight and also a couple of nights
from now when we have both points of view, when
we bring both points of view together, which I think
is an important an important hour for people to hear.
We'll be back on night's side. You have the numbers, folks,
(10:35):
six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty or six
one seven, nine three one ten thirty if you'd like
to speak with my guest. He is a veteran military
veteran graduate of West Point, has an NBA from the
Wharton School, and is currently going to the Kennedy School
of Government.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And he's he's he's just twenty nine years old. And
although twenty nine and I'm sure seems pretty old to him,
for those of us who have passed that age and
long past that age, we realize that he has an
entire life in front of him. He has sacrificed and served,
and he finds some help with these psychedelics. And I
(11:17):
think that he is a very effective spokesperson, just as
doctor n Sergami is a very effective spokesperson on the
other side of this issue, and it's an issue that
I think people should think about long and hard in advance.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
If they haven't voted already. We'll be back on nights.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I feel free to join the conversation right after a
couple of messages.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World
to Night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
My guest is CJ. Leconti, West Point graduate in twenty seventeen,
served in the military, was deployed overseas, and while he
was there, he witnessed some things that most of us
would never witness in our life a lifetime. And he
has seen and himself suffered from suicidal ideation. And he
(12:11):
has participated and received these natural psychedelic substances, and he
swears that they.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Have helped him.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
How were you able to legally be treated with these
It's they're only legal, I believe in. You told me
two states oregone in Colorado, correct, tell us, tell us
the procedure and what did it do for you? Positively?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yeah? So, I mean just a back up like I
was because of the way the laws are in this country.
Speaker 5 (12:42):
I was.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I was in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania, right and and it
wasn't legal there at the time, and I was in
my lowest point in that locked unit in Thesilydia, and
the doctor there told me two things, right. He told me, One,
this medication cocktail that you're on, the nine different pills
that you're on is a lethal mix. This will literally
kill you if you continue taking them. And then two
(13:03):
he told me you should really try psychedelics. And that
was that was the guidance that I got because he
told me he couldn't tell me what to do for
fear of losing his license, essentially right. So so I
was left in the dark, essentially right and literally right,
(13:25):
And I'm, you know, very particular about what I put
in my body one and two fair to say, relatively
straight edged. I didn't even drink in high school and
I'm kind of a loser in that way. Ah, So
I was completely taken it back, thank you, but just
taking a back right, like I'm being told to take psychedelics,
(13:47):
which are to me this thing that the hippie fringes
of society did in the sixties. Right, I'm like, dude,
what are you talking about? Right? And long story short,
I really dug into the research and was justmpletely blown away.
I did just study after study after study from very
reputable places JOHNS Hopkins, NTU, Imperial College to London, and
(14:09):
learned a lot about how to do this. The thing
was is that I couldn't get into a clinical trial.
I didn't have the money to go overseas, so what's left? Right?
Luckily I had my my wife who's an icy universe,
and I was able to procure you know, it's for
(14:32):
those listeners. And I don't know if you know as well,
like it's legal or student I legal is decriminalized for
unlimited cultivation right now, and the municipalities in Massachusetts already
and a plethora of other cities throughout the United States.
So it's it's accessible, right, it is what I'm getting at.
So I was able to access it myself and have
(14:53):
a controlled experience at home with my wife who's a
healthcare profession and that experience completely and yeah, it's saved
my life. Saved my life, bar like no question, save
my life.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
How long? How long is the experience? Is it like
a couple of hours? Is it a day? How long is.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
It a couple of nights? It's yeah, roughly four to
six hours for sillim speaking about psilocybin mushrooms and.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
And and do you need another person they.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Are with you ideally, yes, absolutely, And in the regulated
framework that's being pushed forward, yeah, it's best to have
a someone there to administer it for you and help
guide you through the experience. They act as a real
grounding force for you when you're in you know, in
the in the medicine, in the experience.
Speaker 6 (15:45):
What does this what does this product do to you
during that experience? In other w it's this is something
that that you feel and you literally feel, you know,
like you the world is spinning or is it something
that you basically endure.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
It's a relatively pleasant experience.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And when you come out of it, your view of
yourself and the world is a.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
More positive one. How would you describe it that way?
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I mean, that's a I think describing the psychedelic experience.
It's very ineffable. It's really really challenging and I've tried
a lot, believe me, and how to describe it. It's
kind of unlike anything. It's not you know, it's not
like drinking alcohol and getting a buzz. It's not like smoking,
you know, anything like that. It's there are visual components
(16:38):
of it. There are like some hallucinations. You know, that's
like a scary word, but it's not that you're not
going to like see a demon, right. And for me,
I was I again, this is sounds odd, but I
my grandfather passed away when I was twelve, and he
(16:59):
was like my rock, my mentor, my coach, my biggest fan.
And I met him in my experience and he at
the time, right, I had such a low view of myself,
like I hated myself, right, Like I was thinking of
killing myself. And I felt so alone, you know, right,
I felt like just on an island of my mind,
(17:21):
in my in my mind. And and he took me
through my different parts of my life and showed me,
you know, oh one ye're four. Look at how loved
and supported you are at this birthday party. Look at
how loved and supported you are at this lacrosse tournament
when you're eleven. Right, And they was just showing me
how all of these dots were connected throughout my life.
(17:41):
And and I, yeah, I don't know, I don't know
how to describe it as it was.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I have to ask you this CJ Okay, guys, I'm
sure people in the audience. Do you feel that through
this experience you met with your grandfather in what for
him would be in afterlife?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Or do you feel that your mind was released so
things that your grandfather probably had told you when you
were four and when you were eleven, uh, were positively reinforced.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
That's a great question. That's a great question. And and honestly,
I've been grappling with that a lot myself. Candidly, I
I I I do believe it's a little bit of
the ladder, you know, Uh he has you know I
he yeah, I mean he was. He was that guy,
(18:36):
you know, my mentor and told me all of these
lessons throughout my entire life, you know, play the game
the right way, hand the ball the rest when you score,
celebrate with her boys in the locker room after the game, right,
And it was just a class act and and kind
of instilled all those lessons in me, uh, from from
my time growing up. But but I yeah, I I
(18:56):
I don't know. I wish that I did. I've definitely
been grappling with not a lot myself.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
All right, let me take the pressure off you here
for a second, and let's we got to go to
a newscast, and in the meantime, we're going to invite
people to call six one, seven thirty, Triple eight, nine
to nine, ten thirty, six one seven, nine thirty. Feel
free call if you have a question, that's great. If
you have if you want to make an argument to
(19:22):
the pro con that's fine. But I'd like you to focus,
be guest focused, is what I'm asking my callers to
do this evening. We will have a conversation on Friday night, uh,
forty eight hours from now, actually, excuse me.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
More than forty seventy two hours from now.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Let me get my math right here Friday night at
nine o'clock with CJ uh and with doctor Gami who
who was with us about ten days ago, Doctor Nasier
Gami UH, who takes.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
A very different view of this.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And it will be a civil conversation, not a debate,
kind of a discussion, conversation, and we hope that will
help you decide as to how you want are going
to vote on ballot initiative question. For as you can tell,
my guest CJ. Lacanti feels very definitely yes and doctor
(20:15):
Gami expressed very definite no. So there's not probably a
lot of overlap and agreement, but I think we'll have
a great conversation on Friday night at nine o'clock. Back
on Nightside with my guest, who's a yes vote on
proposition for a limited legalization and regulation of certain natural
(20:36):
psychedelic substances.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
CJ. Laconte. Back on Nightside after.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
This, You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w
B Boston's news radio.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
My guest the CJ. Leconte.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
He's a graduate of West Point, has an NBA from
the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. He's currently
enrolled at the Kennedy School of Government, and he is
an advocate for Question four on the Massachusetts ballot this fall.
Let us get right to phone calls and we'll talk
(21:11):
to as many people as we can between now and
ten o'clock. Let me start off with Thomas and Quincy. Thomas,
your first this hour on night Side with my guest, CJ.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Leconte.
Speaker 7 (21:25):
Hi, guys, should I turn the radio the speaker of.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I think it's a good idea as sure that My
producer Dan told you to turn that radio down because
you'll be distracted if you right.
Speaker 7 (21:38):
Right now, go ready ahead, tight, I'm Thomas. Hi, mister
Dan Ry, first and foremost, you are one of DCL men,
right that carried the radio news, but you carried the
television news with that redhead flat top. But anyway, we
get to mister C representative for possibly alternative H treatment
(22:07):
for Depression obsession PTSD and and the kind and the like.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, I think that you you kind of have have
covered the waterfront here? Do you do you have a
question for for my guest?
Speaker 7 (22:25):
You said that I covered the waterfront. I am a
long showman and I was gonna bring that up the
last strike. I've been a long showman for twenty two years.
I suffer from PTSD. My question is this, Uh, I'm
microdos right, Ah.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I don't know what microdose means? What what what are
you referring.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
To is a small amount of psilocybin?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, that I was involved that everybody else was involved in.
Speaker 7 (23:02):
Dan Mister Dan, Mister Dan Ray, I would never tell
you that, uh micro dosing. H. We have to find equilibrium,
right and tripping and all that and masculine. I tell
you I suffer from PTSD. I don't know. Maybe I
(23:23):
don't know. I suffer from a loss. I don't know. Maybe,
But have.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
You talked to you doctor, Tom?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Have you talked with a psychologist or have you sought
professional help?
Speaker 7 (23:37):
No, I don't have a PCP, a PHP. I don't
have that because I only lost by seventy hours if
I could have had that.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
But no, But Tom, just listen to me for a second.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I'm asking you whether or not you've ever, you know,
gone to a psychologist, a psychiatrist and talked about your problems.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
How did you get No, that's a big note. Okay, enough, No,
I have it.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
Unfortunately, I have it, and I think that's my next step.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I hope, I hope it has to be.
Speaker 7 (24:11):
Of Course, I'm a proactive guy. I'm not calling to
bring the show down. I'm calling it to let's let's
let's look at these alternative roots.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Because okay, so you're on the Yeah, okay, c J One,
Why did you say?
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Yeah, absolutely, Thomas, thank you so much for for calling
him in and really appreciate it. I think that, yeah, yeah,
and and and really apparent and really appreciate the work
that you do and can can sympathize with the with
their situation. Brother, I mean I wasn't very similar waves.
You know, we all no, no, yeah, exactly. We all
(24:57):
struggle here and and uh, you know, not being able
to reach out to anybody, or not feeling like you
can reach out to anybody, not even have it. I
mean I when I got out of the military, I
had no idea how to you set up an appointment
with a PCP, let alone, how to find a therapist,
you know what I mean. So I definitely feel you
there and and rough tough. Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
I mean I think that's why I have undiagnosed PTSD,
undiagnosed mental illness.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
In the like.
Speaker 7 (25:25):
And but listen, a show like this, mister dan Ray,
you are on the cutting edge, avant god of mental
health and awareness.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
I'm going to hang out.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I appreciate it, and I hope you continue to listen.
Thank you right back at you.
Speaker 7 (25:46):
Absolutely well, well, can I get that.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
For first time?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Call always here, We'll get the digital audience laws here absolutely.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
Mister cg a West point to thank you for your.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Good night.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well, as you can see, there are a lot of
people out there who might benefit from this. Let's continue
our conversation. Let me go to Andrea and act and
she's been holding on a long time Andrew, I'm going
to get you in here before the commercial break right ahead.
Speaker 8 (26:20):
Thank you for yourself and the prior an for serving
our contry. I'm sure it's not easier, you know, coming
back with sometimes the way that America is right now.
I'm sorry for the trauma that you went through. So
I'm a healthcare professional and I really believe in anything
that treats or helps anyone with depression or any kind
(26:43):
of always moss, so my understanding, and please correct me
if a yes vote says that you can form an
advisory committee for regulation. Yeah, and then number two was
is anyone over twenty and can grow, use or possess?
So I guess my question is why not just allow
(27:06):
it an inpatient setting? Why take the chance of allowing
someone to have hallucinations on the outside If there's no
regulation committee at this time, like, why not take the
step to have a committee and then have studies and
then all loot once it's you know, people aren't jumping
in front of trains, are seeing bats flying or you know.
(27:29):
And I know that the VA, unfortunately is very very
you know, it's a difficult place because there's so you know,
healthcare today it's just very difficult to you know, there's
so many people trying to get into.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
The system, but it's not the most supportive.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
A great question, Andrea. Let's let's see J respond to that.
It's a it's a great question. Go ahead, c J. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
So why the home grow is is in the ballot measure? Is?
I mean, it's the AMAS official recommendation is for the
elimination of all criminal penalties for possession of psychedelics for
personal use. And in fact, I would actually argue that
the home Growth provision is actually providing a framework to
what is already happening all around us right here in Massachusetts,
(28:19):
you know, I mean eight municipalities have already allowed unlimited
cultivation for personal use. So what this ballot measure does
is actually standardize and narrow those parameters on a statewide basis.
And there haven't been any issues in those eight municipalities yet.
(28:39):
And I think that the criminalization of natural psychedelics really
fuels the black market. It does not prevent people from
accessing psychedelics, but it does force them to navigate a
very risky underground market or travel out of state or
to a different country. And you know what this does,
(29:01):
is it allows people to have an open and honest
conversation with health care providers such as yourself. You know,
for me personally, I wasn't able to talk to a
doctor about this because when I tried to open up about, hey,
I'm thinking about taking psychedelics, I was told, don't talk
about that, You're going to take your your VA benefits
are going to get taken away.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
So so what this does is allow people to have
those conversations with their doctors and then, you know, God forbid, right,
something does go wrong when you are under the influence
of a psychedelic and you need help, isn't it better
to make the call to an EMT, make the call
to nine one one without the fear of being arrested
(29:44):
without you know. So that's kind of that. That's kind
of why the Home grow Personal Use Provision is in
the in the balot no no, and thank you.
Speaker 8 (29:54):
I get the whole regulations over regulations, over regulation, but
why haven't they already sent up an advisory com many
who have tested, you know, especially here in Boston and
Massachusetts with Harvard and m I T and others, to
make sure that it's safe.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Well, there's a real that's a real political question. Andrea,
let me tell you, the legislature probably is not going
to be on a cutting edge on something like that.
And I think that there's a lot within the medical community,
and we'll talk with them, uh doctor Nasa Gami, uh
with with CJ on Friday night, and I hope you'll
listen at nine o'clock, because, uh, this is not a
(30:36):
drug that's recognized by the DEA. It's still on as
I understand that, and I'm not an expert, it's on
the DEA uh proscribed list.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
And as a consequence, a lot of doctors and a lot.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Of medical institutions don't want to jeopardize their their relationship
with the government by getting involved in something like this.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Fair statement, c J.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Question, I question.
Speaker 7 (30:56):
One thing you can get it in patient?
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Is that correct? And go in the sight?
Speaker 7 (31:01):
No? No, no, no, okay.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
No, yeah, that's wheah you have to yeah, yeah, you
have SJ.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
It was my characterization fear in terms of why the
hesitancy of the medical establishment.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Probably oh yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (31:18):
And young kids though, we're going to be responsible not
to pass it on to like high school kids. It's
their only twenty one I guess I don't trying to
say yeah, well.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Again, we're probably gonna probably Andrews, I'm up way past
my break because I didn't want you to hold on
much longer, and unfortunately I have.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
To take a break.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But we're going to get back to this on Friday
night with both points of view with CJ along with
doctor nir got me of tough medical uh, and we'll
we'll go to some of these questions and if you feel,
because you have a real interest in this, you want
to get involved in calling on Friday night, you're more
than not going to do that as well.
Speaker 8 (31:57):
Okay, Oh, thank you, and thank you J.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
I'm so thank you much.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's Andrew back on Nightside six one seven thirty six
Month seven nine thirty will conclude this this hour with
my guest c J. Leconte again West Point graduate has
a degree from Wharton and NBA from Wharton and is
currently at the Kennedy.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
School and he is dealing with and an.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Advocate for psychedelic substances, the the limited legalization and regulation
which is question for in the Massachusetts ballot this fall.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Back on Nightside right after.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
This, now back to Dan ray Line from The Window World.
Night Side studios on w b Z the news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I'm going to get one more caller in here, and
that is Patrick from Charlestown. Patrick, you're on with with
my guest c J. Lacontent do write hid Patrick?
Speaker 7 (32:53):
How you doing?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
C J?
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Hey, Patrick, We're good.
Speaker 7 (32:57):
How you doing?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Little T tell you what your question of comment?
Speaker 9 (33:01):
My My question in comment CJ is a you know,
I'm a I'm gonna lie of the Kennedy school myself,
and I have to say, CJ, I'm disappointed in you. No,
I don't think any reasonable person believes the way.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Let's take it a judgment free zone tonight. Patrick. Okay,
you don't really know him.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
You don't know, but he's yeah, I don't know that.
You have that right to be disappointed. You can disagree
with him, but don't be disappointed. Go right ahead.
Speaker 9 (33:27):
Well, I do have a right to say I've dealt
with a lot of the carnage of the drug crisis
in Massachusetts and seeing what it's led to and and listen, listen,
mister Laconti, you're going to be remembered like Francis Forbes
in the Sackler family. When we have people who are
suffering from mental breakdowns and suicides and deaths resulting from this,
(33:49):
and you will be long gone with Uh what did
you You formed an LLC? Right, you formed an LLC
to to profit from this, Right, it's formed that. What
what's it? Out of Duxbury? So that's your LC? Listen Loo, Kanti, Lookanti,
we're onto you, buddy. You're going to kill him? O?
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, you know what, Patrick?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
You want to make it personally, we'll a little end
the conversation. You got the plank ready there. I think
Patrick needs to take a swim. It would be very
very helpful, I think to get him going. Here we go, Patrick,
enjoy see Jay. I have no idea what what that
gentleman was referring to making some pretty interesting allegations. We
(34:32):
have no idea who he is, no idea what his
experience is. You have explained your experience to us fully
and totally. It's pretty clear to me that from your
life experience, this is something that that you feel very
deeply about. And I'm sorry that I ended on what
I would call a negative note, but as I said
(34:53):
to my producer before we put Patrick on, I said,
Patrick is always it's one of these guys who is
often mistaken, but never in doubt. He will have a
strong point of view whatever the issue is. And I
figured he's either going to be one hundred percent behind
you or he's going to accuse you of all sorts
of skull dodgery and motivation. Uh. And I just if
(35:16):
you want to address anything that he said to feel
free if if you don't, we can just move on.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
No, I mean disappointed in me for seeking out, healing
and saving my life. So yeah, I you know, I
take that for what it is. I think that's an
interesting and interesting.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I suspect that that you would be more than happy
to compare your military service and your academic records with Patrick.
That's the thing that's beautiful. The callers can remain anonymous
in these programs CJ. And even even with the caution
of telling him that, I don't know how he has
a right to be disappointed in someone. There's a lot
(35:58):
of people who I disagree with on different issues, but
I've never felt so superior to other people then I
would say I'm disappointed. I might disagree with someone, but
it's just it's just if folks. If folks want more
information on the yes position, and we will have you
with us on Friday Night with doctor Gami.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
And if you have any questions on how that's going
to go, I explained to today, feel free to reach
back to me, as doctor Gami is more than willing,
uh more than able to reach back to me as well.
It'll be a civil and a polite conversation and there'll
be no spurious allegations against against anyone. How can folks
get in touch with the Yes Yes on four committee?
Speaker 3 (36:43):
If if such a committee exists?
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Uh? Yes on four? Is uh m a for mental
health uh dot org. So that's m a f O
R mental health dot org And uh yeah, that's probably
the best way to get involved. Yeah. I would say
I would give out my email and you could reach
out directly to me. But I don't know if people
(37:07):
like Patrick Patrick out there, I might take that back now,
So but yeah you can.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, no, I think go through the group and go
through the institution.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
And it's just disappointing that people, uh, you know, through
the anonymity of a telephone call, they can make allegations
which have no basis in fact, and even if there's
a basis in fact for them to question someone's motive
it's totally unfair. So I apologize for Patrick, but probably
not the first or the last time I'll have to
(37:37):
apologize for him. And I'll look forward to talking with
you and doctor Gammy on on Friday night at nine o'clock.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Thanks so much, CJ.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
You so much appreciate it, and thank you, and thank
you very much for your service.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
By the way that I should.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Have well, thank you for your service.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
We'll be back here. Thanks again, Patrick, CJ.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
We'll be back on night side and we're going to
talk right after the ten o'clock news at Emerson College.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Poster Spencer Kimball.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
There's an election next week, and around this time next
Tuesday night, we may have a pretty good idea who's
going to be the next president of the United States.
We might get a little bit of an insight from
Spencer right after the ten o'clock news.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
We're calling all people of interest in politics right after
the ten
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