November 8, 2024 • 39 mins
Teachers in the towns of Beverly and Gloucester went on strike, closing schools. Teachers are asking for better pay, benefits, and smaller, more manageable class sizes, among other demands. While it is illegal for teachers to go on strike in Massachusetts, both the Beverly Teachers Association and the Gloucester Teachers Association are committed to striking until a contract is reached.
*The Gloucester Mayor’s Office as well as the Beverly Mayor’s Office did not respond to our request to join the conversation*
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio and listen to NightSide with Dan Rea Weeknights From 8PM-12AM!
*The Gloucester Mayor’s Office as well as the Beverly Mayor’s Office did not respond to our request to join the conversation*
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio and listen to NightSide with Dan Rea Weeknights From 8PM-12AM!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's night side who Dan Ray, I'm WBS Costin's Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, welcome back, everybody. It's a little bit after
nine o'clock on a Friday night. It is Friday, November eighth,
those of you who are keeping score, and the election
is behind us, and I think we all should be
happy for that. However, it worked out because if you
remember twenty twenty, at this time, we were all trying
(00:30):
to figure out who had won. It looked as if
Joe Biden had won, but it wasn't official. It wasn't
made official that Biden had won until Saturday, Saturday afternoon,
if my memory is correct, and I think it is so,
it seems we talked about this last night. Seems to
have been settled. It was decisive. We talked about last night,
(00:56):
and we may get back to some of that tonight
at ten o'clock, because that, I know is on people's minds,
and I do hope you talk about it over Thanksgiving,
but we'll talk about that, I'm sure before Thanksgiving. Just
take a big deep breath that he can exhale. Can
you imagine if right now it was you know, there
were a couple of states out and one was at
(01:17):
two sixty four, and one was at two sixty three,
and it was depending upon hanging jads or votes. Anyway,
enough of that, I want to talk about the teachers strike,
and I want to put it in some context, okay,
And I am going to tell you that probably some
of the things that I'm going to say are not
(01:39):
going to make teachers happy. But that's not my job
here at Nightside. My job is to generate some conversation
and make people think about a subject matter. And the
subject matter at this point is the families, the children
and the families and the parents of people who live
(02:01):
in the three communities north of Boston which are now
affected by teacher strikes in some form of fashion. And
we're talking about Marblehead, which has been on strike or
is on strike, Gloucester and Beverly. Marblehead is the latest
to join, and I guess technically they're not quite on
(02:23):
strike yet, but they released a statement tonight which I'll
read a little bit here just to get a sense
of fairness to them. Massachusetts Marblehead Education Association votes to
authorize strike effective Tuesday if no agreement is reached over
the holiday weekend. So we can't say that they're all
on strike. But the local president up there said our
(02:45):
schools are in crisis, and the educators of Marblehead have
collectively said enough is enough. After seven months of negotiations,
we're no closer to a solution and the school committee
has failed to recognize the urgency of the situation. Our
schools need fear wages. Okay, it's not the schools who
get the wages. It's the teachers who get the wages
(03:06):
and the administrators. But that's okay, that's euphemisms safe working conditions.
I didn't realize that it was dangerous to work in
Marblehead schools if there are problems with the safety that
needs to be addressed and adequate resources to meet the
needs of our students, and I don't know what that means.
Are there are they lacking supplies, you know, paper, computers?
(03:28):
I don't know. And because of their refusal, I assume
it's referencing the school committee. We must take action to
protect the future of our community. Okay, they talk about
the starting salary for kindergarten pair of professionals is currently
eighteen thousand, three hundred and thirty eight dollars, and our
tutors who provide critical services for special education students earn
(03:50):
only twenty seven thousand dollars a year, and then the
committee's refusing to allow us our existing to access our existence, bereavement,
lee for pregnancy loss. It is beyond the pale and
they should be ashamed. Well again, this is a statement
from the teachers Union in Marvel Head. Here's the deal,
(04:11):
and I'm interested in hearing from you, those of you
who live in Newton. You went through a teacher strike
last January, and my recollection is that that teacher strike
lasted nearly three weeks, three weeks after school vacation, after
the holiday vacation, Christmas vacation, and they were back in
(04:32):
school for a few days and then out on strike.
I remember at the time that the mayor up there,
Ruth inn was very, very extremely upset. Ruth Iann Fuller.
She's longtime mayor of Newton and considered, you know, supportive
generally of public education. She's a pretty progressive Democrat. Not
(04:53):
that there's any Republicans who could become mayor of Newton.
That's a very democratic city. And the parents had they
were caught unawares. There are a lot of families that
need two jobs uh to uh to to pay the
property taxes in a city like Newton, or a city
like marble a town like Marblehead or or Beverly or
(05:17):
or Gloucester. UH that the salaries of the school department
is paid for by the in those towns. There's there's
not a lot of commercial industry in any of those towns,
but there's no consideration of what are the parents going
to do? As I mentioned to Nicole Davis during the
(05:38):
during the eight o'clock hour, UH. In days gone by,
there always was a nuclear family nearby. Siblings, you know, brothers,
you know, adults, brothers and sisters, and you could leave
a child or two child or two children over with
a sibling with their with their cousins or they're all
out of school or whatever. Maybe they might have and
(06:00):
some aunts or some grandmothers or grandfathers. Well, today people
live quite far away. Families are the nuclear family is
quite different than it was once. But there's very little
consideration given to the parents. And I honestly believe, and
I know that the teachers unions aren't gonna happy happy
(06:21):
for me to say this. I honestly believe that this
is about the teachers' salaries, and it's they talk about
the students. But just think about this, the relationship. If
you're a student and the teachers are saying, will you
go outside with us and join the picket line? If
you're a student, what are you going to say? Okay?
(06:41):
I mean you don't have a lot of choice. You
don't have as a student because obviously you want to
be good to your teachers and you hope your teachers
will be good to you. So I think that there
should be a law which would say that students should
not be allowed to be even asked or participate in
a picket line. It should be between the school committee
(07:02):
and the teachers' unions. That's number one. No students should
be put in that situation because it's a very awkward situation,
and very few students are going to say no, my
parents do not agree with this strike. They want me
to be in school and they do not want me
to be in pickoline. So that's number one. Number two,
(07:22):
the Massachusetts Teachers Association is feeling pretty feisty these days
because they were the motivating force that has now eliminated
the MCAST test requirement for graduation that went down to
defeat as one of the ballot questions on Tuesday. I
suspect that the next step by the Teachers Association will
(07:43):
be to eliminate the mandatory m CAST testing in the
third grade and the fifth grade and the eighth grade
before the big test that students need to pass with
by the way, I think five chances to pass that test.
But but that issue is now moot, so we'll leave
it alone. And you have a very strong teachers union here,
(08:07):
and if you want to go to the Department of
Education website, there is a website where they list all
of the average salaries of teachers in Massachusetts cities and towns,
and you can go and see what teachers are making
in your cities and towns. And the teachers' unions always
talk about the para professionals, But when they negotiate and
(08:32):
they get the ten percent rays over two years or
whatever it is, fifteen percent raise over three or whatever
it is, the percentages apply generally across the board, so
that the teacher who's making one hundred thousand dollars, when
they get that five percent raise, they go to one
hundred and five thousand dollars. That pair of professional who's
(08:53):
making twenty thousand dollars. When they get that five percent raise,
they get an extra thousand dollars because it's on a
percentage basis. So I'd love to know what you think.
Do you think the teachers' unions it's illegal for teachers'
unions to strike, just as it is illegal for police
unions and for fire unions and for public safety unions
(09:15):
to strike. Do you think that these teachers' unions should
pay a higher price, meaning that they should be told
if you do strike, we will have a penalty that
will be automatic, which cannot be renegotiated when the agreement
(09:36):
is made, because the judge can say we're going to
find you ten thousand dollars a day. And at the
end of the strike, when they come to a final agreement,
the teachers' union, I assume, can then say to the
city or town, look, as part of this agreement, we
want you to forgive the strike, forgive the fines. Now.
I don't know if that's possible, but I suspect it
(09:58):
probably does happen. And maybe once these judges say, oh no,
we're going to find you ten thousand dollars a day,
ten thousand dollars a day or twenty thousand dollars a
day or whatever it is, and you stayed out for
three weeks, the union has to come up with the money,
and obviously in the only place they're going to come
up with the money either is from the Teachers' Union
(10:19):
writ large, meaning the Teachers Union of Massachusetts, or from
the specific union that was fined. So I'd love to
hear from you. You don't have to live in Marblehead,
Gloucester or Beverly to be in this set of circumstances.
The other thing I want to add is to the
best of my knowledge, and I stand to be corrected.
I always stand to be corrected here on night side.
(10:40):
I do not believe that any people who are teachers
in Massachusetts have ever been dragooned to become a teacher.
They have not been drafted. There's no compulsory teacher service.
All of them made a decision at some point that
was the career they wanted to choose. Now, they probably
knew that they would not make a million dollars a year.
(11:02):
They would not be making salaries commensurate with what professional
athletes or maybe doctors or warriors are making. That's a
decision they made teachers' unions. Again, they work very hard,
but but they have probably a lot more vacation time
than most people. So it's a lifestyle choice. It's a
vocation that they chose, and to strike in the middle
(11:24):
of a school year, in my opinion, is unfeared of
the students, and it's also unfair to the parents of
those students and the guardians of those students because when
the schools are closed, the students have to be housed
somewhere during the day other than the school. I'm going
to open up the phone lines. If you're a taxpayer,
(11:45):
you have a dog in this fight. If you're a
teacher and you want to tell me why I'm so wrong,
bring it on. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty,
six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty, triple eight
nine two, nine, ten thirty. We're going to talk about
this until ten o'clock. So if you want to get
in dial now, we're coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
NIGHTSID Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
All right, I have just checked during the break on
the average teacher salaries in Beverly, Gloucester and Marblehead for
the year twenty twenty to twenty twenty one. If you
like to check on this, here's the website profiles dot DOE,
which stands for Department of Education dot massmass dot edu
(12:37):
slash State Report slash Teacher Salaries, so you can find
it pretty easily. Profiles dot DOE for Department of Education
dot m ASS from Massachusetts dot edu slash State Reports
slash teacher salaries in the year twenty twenty to twenty
twenty one, that is now four years ago. In Beverly,
(13:00):
the average teacher salary eighty four thousand, seven hundred and
sixty five dollars. I suspect there's at least one contract
cycle in between there, so it's probably bigger than that.
More than that Gloucester eighty six thousand, three hundred and
sixty dollars. Again, that is the average salary according to
the Massachusetts Department of Education in Marblehead eighty four thousand,
(13:21):
three hundred and sixty five dollars. So between these three towns,
the one that pays the teachers as of twenty twenty
one the most was Gloucester. Both Beverly and Marblehead are
a couple thousand dollars less. So eighty six, eighty four,
(13:41):
eighty four. Those are the teacher salaries in twenty twenty
to twenty in the school year twenty twenty to twenty
twenty one. Let's see what people have to say here.
We're gonna go to Ginny. Who's first up? Ginny is
in Boston, Ginny, I could care less on what side
of the argument is that you're on, but I'd love
(14:02):
to hear your point of view. Welcome to night Sider.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Thank you. So what I want to clarify is that
you mentioned about the power of professionals. Yes, they are
not in the same union as the teachers. So when
the teachers get a raised, they don't get a raised.
I think you said that they do get a raised.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah. Well here's what my well, here's what my understanding is.
I don't know exactly what. I know that in Newton
the teachers were arguing all along that the power of
professionals needed to be more highly compensated. The teachers in
new absolutely make like ninety one thousand dollars. This is
(14:45):
four years ago. These are the stats from four years ago.
I'm sure the average salary is now over one hundred
thousand dollars in Newton. Okay, it should be well, that's fine,
maybe it should be two hundred thousand dollars. Okay, But
I guarantee you, as a consumt t once of that
negotiation in Newton, that there were similar wage increases given
(15:08):
to the para professionals in Newton, because if that didn't happen,
then it would have been a total sham for the
teachers to use the underpaid para professionals as their argument
for increases for the better paid teachers. If you understand what.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I'm saying, I think they argued so that the para
professionals could get more money because they deserve more money.
As you said, some of them only make eighteen thousand
dollars a year. I mean, they don't have the whole
loads that teachers have, but they work hard and they're
there from I'm not distributing that, but.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
But are you Are you trying to tell me that
when the unions go on strike, threatened strike, or whatever,
and they negotiate and they finally get let us say,
let's let's be let's be conservative, and let's say they
a ten percent increase over three years. Let's keep it simple.
You're telling me that the par of professionals, who may
(16:06):
not be in the union, but they but the union
negotiates on their behalf. The par of professionals also get
a ten percent raise. If that's what the teachers are getting.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
No, I think you're dead.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Wrong because at that point, the.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Par of professionals are in their own union. They're not
in the union. What's the teachers?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Well, why why aren't they?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I don't know, why aren't they?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Actually?
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Well, all I can.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Tell you is this is that the teachers are Here's
what is really sad. The teachers are using the low
salaries that are being paid to the pair of professionals.
They're trying to use that as an argument for the
teachers to get more money, because that's what they're doing.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 5 (16:52):
No, I don't agree with that.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Of course you are.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Why don't you agree with that? Why don't you agree
with that?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Because I think the teachers are for themselves and not
for the power professionals.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well, well, they're using the para professionals. They're using the
pair of professionals because when they quote the the the less,
the smaller the money. If you say, okay, there's someone
who's a para professional and most people don't understand what
that means. But they're working full time at the school.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Are a teacher aide, you might call it a teacher aig.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
You know what it is, right, But what I'm saying,
I'm saying we the people understand, well, that's fine, but
they are making they're making twenty three thousand dollars a year. Hypothetically,
the average person is going to say, look, you can
make twenty three thousand dollars flipping burgers at McDonald's and.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
They like to be with children, and some people like that.
You know, people want to be compensated.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
So well, I'm trying to figure out where you are
you a teacher or are you a para professional?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I'm not neither.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Okay, so at all?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
You see, you know all why I work in education?
While I worked in education.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
What did you do in education?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I don't. I don't want to tell you. And it's
thirty six years Yeah, okay, so you were.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You were in education and you don't want to tell me.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
But that's okay, No I don't that's I don't have to.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
No, no, no, don't. I don't have you in the
witness stand Here. I'm simply asking you questions because I
want to qualify you so that people will know of
your credibility. Okay, what I'm saying to you is, if
the teachers really are concerned in Gloucester, Marblehead, in Beverly
about the low pay of the para professionals, they should
go to the to the school committee and say, look,
(18:41):
we're pretty well paid, we don't need an increase right now,
but can you give some money to these poor pair
of professionals. I then would be on the picket line
with the teachers saying they're doing the right thing by
the para professionals. They're using the pair of professionals. They're
using the para professionals to generate sympathy for their strike.
That's what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Well they may be, they may be, but you know
what they deserve the raise. Who is going to say
more than eight hours a day with twenty one, twenty
two twenty three children, is anybody?
Speaker 4 (19:15):
What about the.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
People in the business world, what are they making you
have to look at that.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean, let me ask you this, what did selective
service drag these teachers? Did they draft the teachers. If
they did, I was not aware of that.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
It takes a special person to be a teacher. Nobody
drafted them.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Good well, they all chose the profession, you know, Jinny,
Now you're exposing your bias a little bit. They chose
a profession. Okay, there are people who I know who
have chosen professions in which they're dedicated, et cetera. All
I'm just saying is, you want to go out on strike,
(19:55):
go out on strike. But let's talk about how much
money you make and let the average person who in
the town of Beverly or Gloucester or Marblehead. They're going
to see there, and particularly by the way, older folks
on fixed incomes are going to see their real estate
taxes increased dramatically. Thank you for your career in education,
and thank you for your perspective which whatever you did
(20:16):
in education, thank.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
You, thank you as well.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Good night, good night, we'll keep.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
It rolling here on night side. Uh. The fairly simple
concept there. If you're making one hundred k as a teacher,
and you're going to use as an example the para
professional who's making twenty eight thousand dollars, you know you
can forgold maybe an increase, and you can say the union,
the teachers union, can say, let's take care of the
para professionals. They're the ones who are really they're helping us,
(20:41):
they're making our job easier. Let's take care of them.
But I don't hear the Teachers' union saying that six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty. Look,
there's a lot of benefits to being a teacher. Okay,
there's security, there's a pension. A lot of people who
work now in the private sector there's no more pensions
in private sector. You can put your own money away
(21:01):
and hope that the stock market doesn't crash. Feel free,
join the conversation, whatever your point of view. Jinny was fine.
I'm delighted she called. I wish she might have shared
with us exactly what she did in education, But that's fine. Uh,
we'll be back on Nightside right after the break the
news here at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You're on Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Okay, let's keep rolling. John in Boston. John, you next
on Nightside, Welcome, sir, go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Oh nice, Jan, Just a couple of things, Dan I
know the teachers basically they get two months off out
of the because I've known teachers that worked other jobs
during that period of time it made a substantial amount
of income, so they're not working a full year. But
also some of the things that concern me, Dan is
(21:53):
if they are using basically they call them power teachers,
para professionals whatever, by basically it's part time teachers that
they're including dear low income and with the income of
full time teachers, use that as a excuse of not
getting paid enough. They're kind of given a mean average
that isn't really fair. And again, you.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Know what the fairness here in fairness? What the numbers
that I've given you, and I hope you were listening,
that the average teacher as of twenty twenty the school
year twenty twenty one in Beverly eighty four thousand and
seven sixty five, in Gloucester eighty six thousand and three
sixty in Marblehead eighty four thousand and three sixty five.
(22:34):
That's based upon statistics from a page out of the
Department of Education Massachusetts state report. Again, the para professionals,
the school aids, whatever phrase, the people you would like
to use. They're not included in that. So, if let's
say there's a teacher in the classroom, the average salary
(22:54):
for the teacher's eighty six thousand dollars, and that if
the para professional is making twenty five thousand dollars, that
whole classroom, it's a it's a cost to the taxpayers
of eighty six plus twenty five. So you know that
classroom that is more like one hundred and ten thousand
dollars in terms of salary. The teachers are basically pointing
at the para professionals and saying they're underpaid. They probably
(23:18):
are because they make it twenty five thousand dollars. But
the teachers aren't saying give them an increase. They say,
we want an increase, and I'll give them an increase too.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
So they are including I'm a little confused that the
para professionals they're not working full time for that low
amount of They yes, they are, I mean there's a
paraprofliction part time teachers.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
No, well, in some cases they could be. No, they're
not part time teachers. There's somebody who maybe doesn't have
a teaching certificate, has graduated from college and is going
to get another degree or whatever, or maybe they're maybe
it's difficult. There's there's a lot of school systems that
there are no teacher openings because it's being a teacher
(24:04):
is a good job. It's an important job, and it's
a job to which a lot of people ascribe. Nobody
is dragging teachers, kicking and streaming screening into buildings to
become teachers. They all have chosen that career as a vocation.
And if they can't, if they're really that unsatisfied with
(24:27):
the with the salary they meet, if it's salary that's
driving them, they need to think about maybe a different profession.
But most of them want to work there, and most
of them, you know, a looking for a pay raise.
Everyone wants to see a pay raise. Obviously with inflation,
(24:47):
we understand that, but at what cost? And why is
it that parents are basically told, hey, you've got to
take care of your kids next week as we're going
on strike, and the parents are saying, wait a sec,
I got a job. My husband, you know, the the
wife's got a job, the husband's got a job. We
need two salaries in order to pay the real estate
taxes in this community, they kind of caught between the
(25:08):
rock and hard place, John, is what I'm saying. The
victims here really are the parents and the guardians of
the students. Who who when the teachers are on strike,
who takes care of the students?
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Exactly that. I mean a couple of months ago, I've
met two different fifth grade teachers. One of these is
really undisturbing. It's a little bit off the subject, but
still she was teaching a fifth grade teacher as students
and there's a girl in her class identify as a
cat and there's nothing. She went to the prisconal said,
I want to call the girl's mother. The prison wouldn't
let her call the mother. And another teacher had the
(25:41):
same type of problem.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
That's a whole different John.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
That is a little long, I know, but what they're
teaching the kids and now they're on strike on top
of that kind of thing, right.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
And those decisions, those decisions John, okay, are probably imposed
by the political leaders in different communities and be the
school administrators and the teaching.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah, it is. It's coming down from the states in
the government.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
What I'm saying is you can't blame a teacher for that.
If a teacher is called. Just as if you're in
the military and uh and they tell you, hey, you
got to uh, you know, go to the mess hall
and you're on miss hall duty, or you got to
go fix that truck that's that's not working. Or worst
case scenario, you're in a combat zone and they say, hey,
get your machine, get your gun, we got to take
(26:28):
that hill over there. It's kind of what you sign
up for. You got to do it or you're going
to be in You're going to be in problem. I mean,
if all of a sudden a teacher decides to do something,
you're taking me down a rabbit hole. I don't want
to go here, John, I just want to stay.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
On the get I'm saying, is someone told me to
tell you to that, then I would leave teachers bottom line.
I don't know, Dad, it's a financial issue, but uh,
it's especially in these hot economic times going on a
strike and you're going to strike against.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Well, I mean it's illegal, Okay, it's it's illegal, And
when it's all said and done, the union will pay
some fines. But I think the fines that they charge
the union should be a little bit more costly, and
they should make it clear that we're not going to
abate those fines. If you stay out for a couple
of weeks like they did in Newton, all those fines
(27:17):
are going to be collected. You know, you know, we're
playing for real here. We're the only and if if
the teachers union stays out, at some point they have
to consider saying to the leaders of the teachers' union,
you've got to tell these teachers to go back to Striker.
You're going to be in contempt of court. And you
know what the what the implications of that are, John,
I got to run.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Thank you much, take it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Let me keep going here. I want to try to
get as many folks in as I can. Love to
hear from you. If you're up in a Beverly glocester
or marblehead, and if you're courageous and you're afraid people
won't recognize your voice. Next up is Beatrice in Bridgewater.
Beatrice in Bridgewater, You're next on Nightside.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Welcome, Welcome, thank you. I have a different perspective because
I used to work in the main office in a
regional school, and I know that every year the schools
would take it more and more special needs students because
the state pays the more to take those students, and
(28:15):
those are the students that the para professionals are with
every day. The para professionals are working with students with
special needs, with behavior problems, and I will tell you
they do not get enough money.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
But I'm not going to disagree with you on that right.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
But I'm going to tell you something. I worked twenty
two years in the private sector, and I have a
pension from that job. I worked eleven years in the
school system, and my pension from there for half the
time is more than twice what it is from the
private sector. So there are a lot of benefits. But
(28:59):
us administrations of the school take more and more of
these children with problems, and the prayer professionals are with them,
and they do not get enough pay. Now, we had
one student at our school who was in a wheelchair,
who could not even feed himself, and he had a
para professional with him from the time he came into
(29:21):
that school until he got on his van to leave.
And that's all she did all day was with this
one student.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
And guess what those let's let's I just want to
keep the focus clearly here. First of all, interesting points
you made about your pension, You're right there. You worked
in the private sector a long time ago. If you've
got a pension, because pensions have been eliminated in the
private sector. Public pensions are different stories. Those are are very.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
Very generous, very lucrative.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Very well, I'll say generous. You say lucrative. Okay, fair enough,
you say tomato. I'll say to my okay, however, I
want to see that child who has special needs. I
want him to him or her to be taken care of,
and I want them to be able to be mainstreamed
if possible. I know what the lingo is, and I
get all of that, and God forbid that your family
(30:17):
or my family would have to deal with a child
who has significant special needs. And that's sort of what
we do as a society. It's almost like an insurance contract.
It's like we say, Okay, everybody's going to pay a
little more in their taxes and we will provide what
the best we can as a society for people who
(30:39):
really need some help. No one, no one objects to that, okay.
And if the para professionals are not being treated well enough,
compensated well enough, let's increase their salaries. But what bothers
me is that the teachers' unions in Massachusetts, who are
making pretty good money if you go to this Department
(31:02):
of Education website.
Speaker 6 (31:04):
Most oh, I heard you say that, and I agree
the teacher money paraprofessionals, right.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
But what I'm saying is the teachers' union basically around
on strike, they ask the kids to show up outside
at the rallies, which I don't think is important. That
puts the child of the student in a very awkward
position because that no child is going to have the
backbone to say, gee, I think you're asking me something
(31:32):
which is inappropriate. But they love to have the students.
We're doing it for the students, and the kids are
out there because they have a day offer school and
they get to make some signs and all of that.
There's a lot of things about it which bothered me.
It's as simple as that. And I also think that
that if teachers' unions are not doing a good enough
job negotating for the teachers, then at that point, let's
(31:54):
get the legislature involved and let's let's pass some piece
of legislation which requires the cities and towns to go
ahead and charge people more money. I mean, the disruption
that's going to occur in these three communities potentially is unfair.
It's unfair to the parents who basically build their lives
(32:15):
around the idea that kids are going to be in school. Beatrice,
I'm past my break.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
I hate Okay, I just wanted to give you a
different point of view. Because they need more para professionals,
and they need the para professionals need more money.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I agree with you, and I think that the teachers
should basically say, hey, look we're doing pretty well. If
there is some extra money, let's spread them amongst the
para professionals.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Thank you, great night. Take a very quick break. I
got three calls. Some of you are a little late here,
but I'm going to try to get all of you in.
So Louis, Susan and Jamie work with me here. I'll
get you all in. I don't think we're going to
have time for any other calls, so we're going to
switch topics at ten o'clock. You should have called earlier.
Coming back on night.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Side now back to Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Okay, going to try to get everybody in here. Susan
and Hingham Susan next on Nightsiger right.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Ahead, Hey Dan, just wanted to point something out.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
You gotta remember teachers only work one hundred and eighty
two days in a year, and if you're making eighty
five thousand a year, you're making four hundred and sixty.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Dollars a day. You've got right.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
But all these vacations.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
No, no, in fairness to the teachers. And I want
to be fear to the teachers. I'm being pretty critical.
I think the point you make is a good one.
But at the same time, they do spend some time
I'm sure of getting ready for the school year during
the summer and all of that. So you know, I
mean again, it's yeah, did they they chose this profession.
That's they chose this profession. You know. I agree with you.
I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying, but I don't want
(33:50):
to beat them over the head with It's what I'm
trying to say.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
No, you have to beat them over the head because
they shouldn't no nothing, they shouldn't, like you said, they
shouldn't be out of school for any reason at all,
And they still get paid. Even though they're on strike,
they still get paid and they're not working. If even if,
even if they didn't strike and they didn't have a
(34:16):
contract and they're still negotiating, they still maintain their benefits
and everything from the contract that expired. It's just you know, continues, Okay,
So there's no reason for them to strike. They're still
getting paid. It doesn't like expiring.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
By the way, you don't get a paycheck anymore.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
No, no idea came on them for disrupting a child's education.
You know, I'm sorry, but they're in it for the money.
They're greedy grabbers, I can say it. They're greedy grabbers
because it's all on the tax payers. And their pensions
end up being eighty percent of the last three years.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
They're bigger the teacher pensions. It's a good pension. It's
a good pension. Susan, thank you. I'm gonna jammy a
little bit on time here because they got two other
folks to get in as well. But appreciate your call,
you know that. Keep calling the program. You made a
lot of sense, you too. Take it easy. Let me
go next to Jamie in Chilms for Jamie. Your next
one nights.
Speaker 7 (35:10):
I go right ahead, Kay Dan Jas listen every night
every night, but I don't always call it. The only
other time I called was on your most recent Mother's
Day episode. I wanted to give a shout out to
my grandmother.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, what's your thought on this, Jamie.
Speaker 7 (35:29):
I feel very frankly that I totally understand the conservative
point of view here, but I just want to bring
up the fact that the whole idea of the Americans
with Disabilities Act was brought about by Republicans and is
rooted so much more deeper throughout disability history. And so
I think tonight brings up your two guest begers thing
(35:50):
up a cool just the point where we have this
idea of military protections and protecting our veterans, and so basically,
how do we bring that about out with the contractors
and the extra services such as the para professionals who
are bringing upon these extra charges, and then how are
they fitting all into this idea of people who don't
live here versus who's in charge with the administration. How
(36:13):
is that structured and the pushing pull of the union.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Well, the kids you're getting in a couple of other
issues here, in terms of the students who have come
here with families, migrant families, and they're here and they
are going to be educated. I just want to focus
on the union goes out on strike, they encourage the
kids to walk the picket line with them or here
at demonstrations, and the people who are really feeling the
(36:40):
burden of the parents who are trying to work in
order to make enough money so they can pay all
their taxes. And now what do they do with their
kids when the strike is on. I mean, they weren't
told three weeks ago we're going to have a strike
in early.
Speaker 7 (36:51):
November, right, And so what is the question though, is
are you saying why did this come about?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
I guess so.
Speaker 7 (37:00):
I'm just reminding everyone because I think it's a uniting
issue that comes brings in all those other points together
where in between.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I do understand the point you made, Jamie, and I'm
very happy that you called. And uh, and I want
you to call more often. Okay, but I gotta excuse me,
I gotta jump to one more call here before the
hour's up. Yeah, no, thank you, Thanks Jamie, talk to
you soon. Lewis and Wilmington. Lewis, You're going to wrap
the hour first, go right ahead, Lewis.
Speaker 8 (37:28):
Yeah, I blame the town managers from these communities that
has gone this flop, and so at this point later
on the communities need to remember these people that are
running their town business are failing at this. The other
thing is the teachers union shouldn't plan to strike before
school started, not in the middle of the season now
which there is a law, so it needs. Union leaders
(37:52):
need to be arrested or order your people back to work.
You did this at the wrong time and this classes
must continue.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, I would agree with that point. I think I
don't think they need to be arrested, but I think
they get called into court and they're told, hey, look,
you're the leaders of this. You have to tell your
union members to go back to work, because we're not
only going to find the union, but we're going to
hold you in contempt of court if you're if your
membership doesn't. This is such an incredible look Lewis. Last
(38:23):
winter in Newton, last January, I think the teachers union
was out on strike for like fourteen days, nearly three weeks.
I mean in the middle of the school year. That
was horrific. The Teachers' Union is basically flexing their muscle politically.
They flexed it politically on getting rid of the mcast test,
and we're going to see more of this and affecting
(38:44):
more communities unless some judge or some group steps up
and says this cannot stand. If you want it, if
you want to walk out, if you want to threaten
to strike, do it in August, do it in July
on your own time. Don't do it in the time
of the students. I think you made a great point.
Speaker 5 (39:00):
Okay, good night now, Kevin, great.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Knight, Lewis, appreciate the call. Okay, well, the folks who
are just calling now. Unfortunately we're out of time. So
when we get back, we're going to talk about the
Democratic Party. Did they need to regroup after this horrific
political result on Tuesday night? From the Democratics. From the
Democratic Party's point of view, they lost the Senate, they
(39:22):
lost the White House, and I think they will continue
to be in the minority in the House of Representatives.
And Seth Moulton, a cognitis from Massachusetts, made some comments
in The New York Times, which has generated a lot
of controversy. We hope to have Seth Moulton on with
us sometime next week. But I think the point that
he made from a political point of view, although he's
(39:43):
taking a lot of heat for tonight, makes a lot
of sense. I'll explain why right after the ten o'clock
News
It's night side who Dan Ray, I'm WBS Costin's Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, welcome back, everybody. It's a little bit after
nine o'clock on a Friday night. It is Friday, November eighth,
those of you who are keeping score, and the election
is behind us, and I think we all should be
happy for that. However, it worked out because if you
remember twenty twenty, at this time, we were all trying
(00:30):
to figure out who had won. It looked as if
Joe Biden had won, but it wasn't official. It wasn't
made official that Biden had won until Saturday, Saturday afternoon,
if my memory is correct, and I think it is so,
it seems we talked about this last night. Seems to
have been settled. It was decisive. We talked about last night,
(00:56):
and we may get back to some of that tonight
at ten o'clock, because that, I know is on people's minds,
and I do hope you talk about it over Thanksgiving,
but we'll talk about that, I'm sure before Thanksgiving. Just
take a big deep breath that he can exhale. Can
you imagine if right now it was you know, there
were a couple of states out and one was at
(01:17):
two sixty four, and one was at two sixty three,
and it was depending upon hanging jads or votes. Anyway,
enough of that, I want to talk about the teachers strike,
and I want to put it in some context, okay,
And I am going to tell you that probably some
of the things that I'm going to say are not
(01:39):
going to make teachers happy. But that's not my job
here at Nightside. My job is to generate some conversation
and make people think about a subject matter. And the
subject matter at this point is the families, the children
and the families and the parents of people who live
(02:01):
in the three communities north of Boston which are now
affected by teacher strikes in some form of fashion. And
we're talking about Marblehead, which has been on strike or
is on strike, Gloucester and Beverly. Marblehead is the latest
to join, and I guess technically they're not quite on
(02:23):
strike yet, but they released a statement tonight which I'll
read a little bit here just to get a sense
of fairness to them. Massachusetts Marblehead Education Association votes to
authorize strike effective Tuesday if no agreement is reached over
the holiday weekend. So we can't say that they're all
on strike. But the local president up there said our
(02:45):
schools are in crisis, and the educators of Marblehead have
collectively said enough is enough. After seven months of negotiations,
we're no closer to a solution and the school committee
has failed to recognize the urgency of the situation. Our
schools need fear wages. Okay, it's not the schools who
get the wages. It's the teachers who get the wages
(03:06):
and the administrators. But that's okay, that's euphemisms safe working conditions.
I didn't realize that it was dangerous to work in
Marblehead schools if there are problems with the safety that
needs to be addressed and adequate resources to meet the
needs of our students, and I don't know what that means.
Are there are they lacking supplies, you know, paper, computers?
(03:28):
I don't know. And because of their refusal, I assume
it's referencing the school committee. We must take action to
protect the future of our community. Okay, they talk about
the starting salary for kindergarten pair of professionals is currently
eighteen thousand, three hundred and thirty eight dollars, and our
tutors who provide critical services for special education students earn
(03:50):
only twenty seven thousand dollars a year, and then the
committee's refusing to allow us our existing to access our existence, bereavement,
lee for pregnancy loss. It is beyond the pale and
they should be ashamed. Well again, this is a statement
from the teachers Union in Marvel Head. Here's the deal,
(04:11):
and I'm interested in hearing from you, those of you
who live in Newton. You went through a teacher strike
last January, and my recollection is that that teacher strike
lasted nearly three weeks, three weeks after school vacation, after
the holiday vacation, Christmas vacation, and they were back in
(04:32):
school for a few days and then out on strike.
I remember at the time that the mayor up there,
Ruth inn was very, very extremely upset. Ruth Iann Fuller.
She's longtime mayor of Newton and considered, you know, supportive
generally of public education. She's a pretty progressive Democrat. Not
(04:53):
that there's any Republicans who could become mayor of Newton.
That's a very democratic city. And the parents had they
were caught unawares. There are a lot of families that
need two jobs uh to uh to to pay the
property taxes in a city like Newton, or a city
like marble a town like Marblehead or or Beverly or
(05:17):
or Gloucester. UH that the salaries of the school department
is paid for by the in those towns. There's there's
not a lot of commercial industry in any of those towns,
but there's no consideration of what are the parents going
to do? As I mentioned to Nicole Davis during the
(05:38):
during the eight o'clock hour, UH. In days gone by,
there always was a nuclear family nearby. Siblings, you know, brothers,
you know, adults, brothers and sisters, and you could leave
a child or two child or two children over with
a sibling with their with their cousins or they're all
out of school or whatever. Maybe they might have and
(06:00):
some aunts or some grandmothers or grandfathers. Well, today people
live quite far away. Families are the nuclear family is
quite different than it was once. But there's very little
consideration given to the parents. And I honestly believe, and
I know that the teachers unions aren't gonna happy happy
(06:21):
for me to say this. I honestly believe that this
is about the teachers' salaries, and it's they talk about
the students. But just think about this, the relationship. If
you're a student and the teachers are saying, will you
go outside with us and join the picket line? If
you're a student, what are you going to say? Okay?
(06:41):
I mean you don't have a lot of choice. You
don't have as a student because obviously you want to
be good to your teachers and you hope your teachers
will be good to you. So I think that there
should be a law which would say that students should
not be allowed to be even asked or participate in
a picket line. It should be between the school committee
(07:02):
and the teachers' unions. That's number one. No students should
be put in that situation because it's a very awkward situation,
and very few students are going to say no, my
parents do not agree with this strike. They want me
to be in school and they do not want me
to be in pickoline. So that's number one. Number two,
(07:22):
the Massachusetts Teachers Association is feeling pretty feisty these days
because they were the motivating force that has now eliminated
the MCAST test requirement for graduation that went down to
defeat as one of the ballot questions on Tuesday. I
suspect that the next step by the Teachers Association will
(07:43):
be to eliminate the mandatory m CAST testing in the
third grade and the fifth grade and the eighth grade
before the big test that students need to pass with
by the way, I think five chances to pass that test.
But but that issue is now moot, so we'll leave
it alone. And you have a very strong teachers union here,
(08:07):
and if you want to go to the Department of
Education website, there is a website where they list all
of the average salaries of teachers in Massachusetts cities and towns,
and you can go and see what teachers are making
in your cities and towns. And the teachers' unions always
talk about the para professionals, But when they negotiate and
(08:32):
they get the ten percent rays over two years or
whatever it is, fifteen percent raise over three or whatever
it is, the percentages apply generally across the board, so
that the teacher who's making one hundred thousand dollars, when
they get that five percent raise, they go to one
hundred and five thousand dollars. That pair of professional who's
(08:53):
making twenty thousand dollars. When they get that five percent raise,
they get an extra thousand dollars because it's on a
percentage basis. So I'd love to know what you think.
Do you think the teachers' unions it's illegal for teachers'
unions to strike, just as it is illegal for police
unions and for fire unions and for public safety unions
(09:15):
to strike. Do you think that these teachers' unions should
pay a higher price, meaning that they should be told
if you do strike, we will have a penalty that
will be automatic, which cannot be renegotiated when the agreement
(09:36):
is made, because the judge can say we're going to
find you ten thousand dollars a day. And at the
end of the strike, when they come to a final agreement,
the teachers' union, I assume, can then say to the
city or town, look, as part of this agreement, we
want you to forgive the strike, forgive the fines. Now.
I don't know if that's possible, but I suspect it
(09:58):
probably does happen. And maybe once these judges say, oh no,
we're going to find you ten thousand dollars a day,
ten thousand dollars a day or twenty thousand dollars a
day or whatever it is, and you stayed out for
three weeks, the union has to come up with the money,
and obviously in the only place they're going to come
up with the money either is from the Teachers' Union
(10:19):
writ large, meaning the Teachers Union of Massachusetts, or from
the specific union that was fined. So I'd love to
hear from you. You don't have to live in Marblehead,
Gloucester or Beverly to be in this set of circumstances.
The other thing I want to add is to the
best of my knowledge, and I stand to be corrected.
I always stand to be corrected here on night side.
(10:40):
I do not believe that any people who are teachers
in Massachusetts have ever been dragooned to become a teacher.
They have not been drafted. There's no compulsory teacher service.
All of them made a decision at some point that
was the career they wanted to choose. Now, they probably
knew that they would not make a million dollars a year.
(11:02):
They would not be making salaries commensurate with what professional
athletes or maybe doctors or warriors are making. That's a
decision they made teachers' unions. Again, they work very hard,
but but they have probably a lot more vacation time
than most people. So it's a lifestyle choice. It's a
vocation that they chose, and to strike in the middle
(11:24):
of a school year, in my opinion, is unfeared of
the students, and it's also unfair to the parents of
those students and the guardians of those students because when
the schools are closed, the students have to be housed
somewhere during the day other than the school. I'm going
to open up the phone lines. If you're a taxpayer,
(11:45):
you have a dog in this fight. If you're a
teacher and you want to tell me why I'm so wrong,
bring it on. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty,
six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty, triple eight
nine two, nine, ten thirty. We're going to talk about
this until ten o'clock. So if you want to get
in dial now, we're coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
NIGHTSID Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
All right, I have just checked during the break on
the average teacher salaries in Beverly, Gloucester and Marblehead for
the year twenty twenty to twenty twenty one. If you
like to check on this, here's the website profiles dot DOE,
which stands for Department of Education dot massmass dot edu
(12:37):
slash State Report slash Teacher Salaries, so you can find
it pretty easily. Profiles dot DOE for Department of Education
dot m ASS from Massachusetts dot edu slash State Reports
slash teacher salaries in the year twenty twenty to twenty
twenty one, that is now four years ago. In Beverly,
(13:00):
the average teacher salary eighty four thousand, seven hundred and
sixty five dollars. I suspect there's at least one contract
cycle in between there, so it's probably bigger than that.
More than that Gloucester eighty six thousand, three hundred and
sixty dollars. Again, that is the average salary according to
the Massachusetts Department of Education in Marblehead eighty four thousand,
(13:21):
three hundred and sixty five dollars. So between these three towns,
the one that pays the teachers as of twenty twenty
one the most was Gloucester. Both Beverly and Marblehead are
a couple thousand dollars less. So eighty six, eighty four,
(13:41):
eighty four. Those are the teacher salaries in twenty twenty
to twenty in the school year twenty twenty to twenty
twenty one. Let's see what people have to say here.
We're gonna go to Ginny. Who's first up? Ginny is
in Boston, Ginny, I could care less on what side
of the argument is that you're on, but I'd love
(14:02):
to hear your point of view. Welcome to night Sider.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Thank you. So what I want to clarify is that
you mentioned about the power of professionals. Yes, they are
not in the same union as the teachers. So when
the teachers get a raised, they don't get a raised.
I think you said that they do get a raised.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah. Well here's what my well, here's what my understanding is.
I don't know exactly what. I know that in Newton
the teachers were arguing all along that the power of
professionals needed to be more highly compensated. The teachers in
new absolutely make like ninety one thousand dollars. This is
(14:45):
four years ago. These are the stats from four years ago.
I'm sure the average salary is now over one hundred
thousand dollars in Newton. Okay, it should be well, that's fine,
maybe it should be two hundred thousand dollars. Okay, But
I guarantee you, as a consumt t once of that
negotiation in Newton, that there were similar wage increases given
(15:08):
to the para professionals in Newton, because if that didn't happen,
then it would have been a total sham for the
teachers to use the underpaid para professionals as their argument
for increases for the better paid teachers. If you understand what.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I'm saying, I think they argued so that the para
professionals could get more money because they deserve more money.
As you said, some of them only make eighteen thousand
dollars a year. I mean, they don't have the whole
loads that teachers have, but they work hard and they're
there from I'm not distributing that, but.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
But are you Are you trying to tell me that
when the unions go on strike, threatened strike, or whatever,
and they negotiate and they finally get let us say,
let's let's be let's be conservative, and let's say they
a ten percent increase over three years. Let's keep it simple.
You're telling me that the par of professionals, who may
(16:06):
not be in the union, but they but the union
negotiates on their behalf. The par of professionals also get
a ten percent raise. If that's what the teachers are getting.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
No, I think you're dead.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Wrong because at that point, the.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Par of professionals are in their own union. They're not
in the union. What's the teachers?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Well, why why aren't they?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I don't know, why aren't they?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Actually?
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Well, all I can.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Tell you is this is that the teachers are Here's
what is really sad. The teachers are using the low
salaries that are being paid to the pair of professionals.
They're trying to use that as an argument for the
teachers to get more money, because that's what they're doing.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 5 (16:52):
No, I don't agree with that.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Of course you are.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Why don't you agree with that? Why don't you agree
with that?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Because I think the teachers are for themselves and not
for the power professionals.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well, well, they're using the para professionals. They're using the
pair of professionals because when they quote the the the less,
the smaller the money. If you say, okay, there's someone
who's a para professional and most people don't understand what
that means. But they're working full time at the school.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Are a teacher aide, you might call it a teacher aig.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
You know what it is, right, But what I'm saying,
I'm saying we the people understand, well, that's fine, but
they are making they're making twenty three thousand dollars a year. Hypothetically,
the average person is going to say, look, you can
make twenty three thousand dollars flipping burgers at McDonald's and.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
They like to be with children, and some people like that.
You know, people want to be compensated.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
So well, I'm trying to figure out where you are
you a teacher or are you a para professional?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I'm not neither.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Okay, so at all?
Speaker 3 (17:59):
You see, you know all why I work in education?
While I worked in education.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
What did you do in education?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I don't. I don't want to tell you. And it's
thirty six years Yeah, okay, so you were.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You were in education and you don't want to tell me.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
But that's okay, No I don't that's I don't have to.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
No, no, no, don't. I don't have you in the
witness stand Here. I'm simply asking you questions because I
want to qualify you so that people will know of
your credibility. Okay, what I'm saying to you is, if
the teachers really are concerned in Gloucester, Marblehead, in Beverly
about the low pay of the para professionals, they should
go to the to the school committee and say, look,
(18:41):
we're pretty well paid, we don't need an increase right now,
but can you give some money to these poor pair
of professionals. I then would be on the picket line
with the teachers saying they're doing the right thing by
the para professionals. They're using the pair of professionals. They're
using the para professionals to generate sympathy for their strike.
That's what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Well they may be, they may be, but you know
what they deserve the raise. Who is going to say
more than eight hours a day with twenty one, twenty
two twenty three children, is anybody?
Speaker 4 (19:15):
What about the.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
People in the business world, what are they making you
have to look at that.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean, let me ask you this, what did selective
service drag these teachers? Did they draft the teachers. If
they did, I was not aware of that.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
It takes a special person to be a teacher. Nobody
drafted them.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Good well, they all chose the profession, you know, Jinny,
Now you're exposing your bias a little bit. They chose
a profession. Okay, there are people who I know who
have chosen professions in which they're dedicated, et cetera. All
I'm just saying is, you want to go out on strike,
(19:55):
go out on strike. But let's talk about how much
money you make and let the average person who in
the town of Beverly or Gloucester or Marblehead. They're going
to see there, and particularly by the way, older folks
on fixed incomes are going to see their real estate
taxes increased dramatically. Thank you for your career in education,
and thank you for your perspective which whatever you did
(20:16):
in education, thank.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
You, thank you as well.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Good night, good night, we'll keep.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
It rolling here on night side. Uh. The fairly simple
concept there. If you're making one hundred k as a teacher,
and you're going to use as an example the para
professional who's making twenty eight thousand dollars, you know you
can forgold maybe an increase, and you can say the union,
the teachers union, can say, let's take care of the
para professionals. They're the ones who are really they're helping us,
(20:41):
they're making our job easier. Let's take care of them.
But I don't hear the Teachers' union saying that six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty. Look,
there's a lot of benefits to being a teacher. Okay,
there's security, there's a pension. A lot of people who
work now in the private sector there's no more pensions
in private sector. You can put your own money away
(21:01):
and hope that the stock market doesn't crash. Feel free,
join the conversation, whatever your point of view. Jinny was fine.
I'm delighted she called. I wish she might have shared
with us exactly what she did in education, But that's fine. Uh,
we'll be back on Nightside right after the break the
news here at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You're on Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Okay, let's keep rolling. John in Boston. John, you next
on Nightside, Welcome, sir, go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Oh nice, Jan, Just a couple of things, Dan I
know the teachers basically they get two months off out
of the because I've known teachers that worked other jobs
during that period of time it made a substantial amount
of income, so they're not working a full year. But
also some of the things that concern me, Dan is
(21:53):
if they are using basically they call them power teachers,
para professionals whatever, by basically it's part time teachers that
they're including dear low income and with the income of
full time teachers, use that as a excuse of not
getting paid enough. They're kind of given a mean average
that isn't really fair. And again, you.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Know what the fairness here in fairness? What the numbers
that I've given you, and I hope you were listening,
that the average teacher as of twenty twenty the school
year twenty twenty one in Beverly eighty four thousand and
seven sixty five, in Gloucester eighty six thousand and three
sixty in Marblehead eighty four thousand and three sixty five.
(22:34):
That's based upon statistics from a page out of the
Department of Education Massachusetts state report. Again, the para professionals,
the school aids, whatever phrase, the people you would like
to use. They're not included in that. So, if let's
say there's a teacher in the classroom, the average salary
(22:54):
for the teacher's eighty six thousand dollars, and that if
the para professional is making twenty five thousand dollars, that
whole classroom, it's a it's a cost to the taxpayers
of eighty six plus twenty five. So you know that
classroom that is more like one hundred and ten thousand
dollars in terms of salary. The teachers are basically pointing
at the para professionals and saying they're underpaid. They probably
(23:18):
are because they make it twenty five thousand dollars. But
the teachers aren't saying give them an increase. They say,
we want an increase, and I'll give them an increase too.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
So they are including I'm a little confused that the
para professionals they're not working full time for that low
amount of They yes, they are, I mean there's a
paraprofliction part time teachers.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
No, well, in some cases they could be. No, they're
not part time teachers. There's somebody who maybe doesn't have
a teaching certificate, has graduated from college and is going
to get another degree or whatever, or maybe they're maybe
it's difficult. There's there's a lot of school systems that
there are no teacher openings because it's being a teacher
(24:04):
is a good job. It's an important job, and it's
a job to which a lot of people ascribe. Nobody
is dragging teachers, kicking and streaming screening into buildings to
become teachers. They all have chosen that career as a vocation.
And if they can't, if they're really that unsatisfied with
(24:27):
the with the salary they meet, if it's salary that's
driving them, they need to think about maybe a different profession.
But most of them want to work there, and most
of them, you know, a looking for a pay raise.
Everyone wants to see a pay raise. Obviously with inflation,
(24:47):
we understand that, but at what cost? And why is
it that parents are basically told, hey, you've got to
take care of your kids next week as we're going
on strike, and the parents are saying, wait a sec,
I got a job. My husband, you know, the the
wife's got a job, the husband's got a job. We
need two salaries in order to pay the real estate
taxes in this community, they kind of caught between the
(25:08):
rock and hard place, John, is what I'm saying. The
victims here really are the parents and the guardians of
the students. Who who when the teachers are on strike,
who takes care of the students?
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Exactly that. I mean a couple of months ago, I've
met two different fifth grade teachers. One of these is
really undisturbing. It's a little bit off the subject, but
still she was teaching a fifth grade teacher as students
and there's a girl in her class identify as a
cat and there's nothing. She went to the prisconal said,
I want to call the girl's mother. The prison wouldn't
let her call the mother. And another teacher had the
(25:41):
same type of problem.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
That's a whole different John.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
That is a little long, I know, but what they're
teaching the kids and now they're on strike on top
of that kind of thing, right.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
And those decisions, those decisions John, okay, are probably imposed
by the political leaders in different communities and be the
school administrators and the teaching.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah, it is. It's coming down from the states in
the government.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
What I'm saying is you can't blame a teacher for that.
If a teacher is called. Just as if you're in
the military and uh and they tell you, hey, you
got to uh, you know, go to the mess hall
and you're on miss hall duty, or you got to
go fix that truck that's that's not working. Or worst
case scenario, you're in a combat zone and they say, hey,
get your machine, get your gun, we got to take
(26:28):
that hill over there. It's kind of what you sign
up for. You got to do it or you're going
to be in You're going to be in problem. I mean,
if all of a sudden a teacher decides to do something,
you're taking me down a rabbit hole. I don't want
to go here, John, I just want to stay.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
On the get I'm saying, is someone told me to
tell you to that, then I would leave teachers bottom line.
I don't know, Dad, it's a financial issue, but uh,
it's especially in these hot economic times going on a
strike and you're going to strike against.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Well, I mean it's illegal, Okay, it's it's illegal, And
when it's all said and done, the union will pay
some fines. But I think the fines that they charge
the union should be a little bit more costly, and
they should make it clear that we're not going to
abate those fines. If you stay out for a couple
of weeks like they did in Newton, all those fines
(27:17):
are going to be collected. You know, you know, we're
playing for real here. We're the only and if if
the teachers union stays out, at some point they have
to consider saying to the leaders of the teachers' union,
you've got to tell these teachers to go back to Striker.
You're going to be in contempt of court. And you
know what the what the implications of that are, John,
I got to run.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Thank you much, take it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Let me keep going here. I want to try to
get as many folks in as I can. Love to
hear from you. If you're up in a Beverly glocester
or marblehead, and if you're courageous and you're afraid people
won't recognize your voice. Next up is Beatrice in Bridgewater.
Beatrice in Bridgewater, You're next on Nightside.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Welcome, Welcome, thank you. I have a different perspective because
I used to work in the main office in a
regional school, and I know that every year the schools
would take it more and more special needs students because
the state pays the more to take those students, and
(28:15):
those are the students that the para professionals are with
every day. The para professionals are working with students with
special needs, with behavior problems, and I will tell you
they do not get enough money.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
But I'm not going to disagree with you on that right.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
But I'm going to tell you something. I worked twenty
two years in the private sector, and I have a
pension from that job. I worked eleven years in the
school system, and my pension from there for half the
time is more than twice what it is from the
private sector. So there are a lot of benefits. But
(28:59):
us administrations of the school take more and more of
these children with problems, and the prayer professionals are with them,
and they do not get enough pay. Now, we had
one student at our school who was in a wheelchair,
who could not even feed himself, and he had a
para professional with him from the time he came into
(29:21):
that school until he got on his van to leave.
And that's all she did all day was with this
one student.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
And guess what those let's let's I just want to
keep the focus clearly here. First of all, interesting points
you made about your pension, You're right there. You worked
in the private sector a long time ago. If you've
got a pension, because pensions have been eliminated in the
private sector. Public pensions are different stories. Those are are very.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
Very generous, very lucrative.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Very well, I'll say generous. You say lucrative. Okay, fair enough,
you say tomato. I'll say to my okay, however, I
want to see that child who has special needs. I
want him to him or her to be taken care of,
and I want them to be able to be mainstreamed
if possible. I know what the lingo is, and I
get all of that, and God forbid that your family
(30:17):
or my family would have to deal with a child
who has significant special needs. And that's sort of what
we do as a society. It's almost like an insurance contract.
It's like we say, Okay, everybody's going to pay a
little more in their taxes and we will provide what
the best we can as a society for people who
(30:39):
really need some help. No one, no one objects to that, okay.
And if the para professionals are not being treated well enough,
compensated well enough, let's increase their salaries. But what bothers
me is that the teachers' unions in Massachusetts, who are
making pretty good money if you go to this Department
(31:02):
of Education website.
Speaker 6 (31:04):
Most oh, I heard you say that, and I agree
the teacher money paraprofessionals, right.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
But what I'm saying is the teachers' union basically around
on strike, they ask the kids to show up outside
at the rallies, which I don't think is important. That
puts the child of the student in a very awkward
position because that no child is going to have the
backbone to say, gee, I think you're asking me something
(31:32):
which is inappropriate. But they love to have the students.
We're doing it for the students, and the kids are
out there because they have a day offer school and
they get to make some signs and all of that.
There's a lot of things about it which bothered me.
It's as simple as that. And I also think that
that if teachers' unions are not doing a good enough
job negotating for the teachers, then at that point, let's
(31:54):
get the legislature involved and let's let's pass some piece
of legislation which requires the cities and towns to go
ahead and charge people more money. I mean, the disruption
that's going to occur in these three communities potentially is unfair.
It's unfair to the parents who basically build their lives
(32:15):
around the idea that kids are going to be in school. Beatrice,
I'm past my break.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
I hate Okay, I just wanted to give you a
different point of view. Because they need more para professionals,
and they need the para professionals need more money.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I agree with you, and I think that the teachers
should basically say, hey, look we're doing pretty well. If
there is some extra money, let's spread them amongst the
para professionals.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Thank you, great night. Take a very quick break. I
got three calls. Some of you are a little late here,
but I'm going to try to get all of you in.
So Louis, Susan and Jamie work with me here. I'll
get you all in. I don't think we're going to
have time for any other calls, so we're going to
switch topics at ten o'clock. You should have called earlier.
Coming back on night.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Side now back to Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Okay, going to try to get everybody in here. Susan
and Hingham Susan next on Nightsiger right.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Ahead, Hey Dan, just wanted to point something out.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
You gotta remember teachers only work one hundred and eighty
two days in a year, and if you're making eighty
five thousand a year, you're making four hundred and sixty.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Dollars a day. You've got right.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
But all these vacations.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
No, no, in fairness to the teachers. And I want
to be fear to the teachers. I'm being pretty critical.
I think the point you make is a good one.
But at the same time, they do spend some time
I'm sure of getting ready for the school year during
the summer and all of that. So you know, I
mean again, it's yeah, did they they chose this profession.
That's they chose this profession. You know. I agree with you.
I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying, but I don't want
(33:50):
to beat them over the head with It's what I'm
trying to say.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
No, you have to beat them over the head because
they shouldn't no nothing, they shouldn't, like you said, they
shouldn't be out of school for any reason at all,
And they still get paid. Even though they're on strike,
they still get paid and they're not working. If even if,
even if they didn't strike and they didn't have a
(34:16):
contract and they're still negotiating, they still maintain their benefits
and everything from the contract that expired. It's just you know, continues, Okay,
So there's no reason for them to strike. They're still
getting paid. It doesn't like expiring.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
By the way, you don't get a paycheck anymore.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
No, no idea came on them for disrupting a child's education.
You know, I'm sorry, but they're in it for the money.
They're greedy grabbers, I can say it. They're greedy grabbers
because it's all on the tax payers. And their pensions
end up being eighty percent of the last three years.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
They're bigger the teacher pensions. It's a good pension. It's
a good pension. Susan, thank you. I'm gonna jammy a
little bit on time here because they got two other
folks to get in as well. But appreciate your call,
you know that. Keep calling the program. You made a
lot of sense, you too. Take it easy. Let me
go next to Jamie in Chilms for Jamie. Your next
one nights.
Speaker 7 (35:10):
I go right ahead, Kay Dan Jas listen every night
every night, but I don't always call it. The only
other time I called was on your most recent Mother's
Day episode. I wanted to give a shout out to
my grandmother.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, what's your thought on this, Jamie.
Speaker 7 (35:29):
I feel very frankly that I totally understand the conservative
point of view here, but I just want to bring
up the fact that the whole idea of the Americans
with Disabilities Act was brought about by Republicans and is
rooted so much more deeper throughout disability history. And so
I think tonight brings up your two guest begers thing
(35:50):
up a cool just the point where we have this
idea of military protections and protecting our veterans, and so basically,
how do we bring that about out with the contractors
and the extra services such as the para professionals who
are bringing upon these extra charges, and then how are
they fitting all into this idea of people who don't
live here versus who's in charge with the administration. How
(36:13):
is that structured and the pushing pull of the union.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Well, the kids you're getting in a couple of other
issues here, in terms of the students who have come
here with families, migrant families, and they're here and they
are going to be educated. I just want to focus
on the union goes out on strike, they encourage the
kids to walk the picket line with them or here
at demonstrations, and the people who are really feeling the
(36:40):
burden of the parents who are trying to work in
order to make enough money so they can pay all
their taxes. And now what do they do with their
kids when the strike is on. I mean, they weren't
told three weeks ago we're going to have a strike
in early.
Speaker 7 (36:51):
November, right, And so what is the question though, is
are you saying why did this come about?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
I guess so.
Speaker 7 (37:00):
I'm just reminding everyone because I think it's a uniting
issue that comes brings in all those other points together
where in between.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I do understand the point you made, Jamie, and I'm
very happy that you called. And uh, and I want
you to call more often. Okay, but I gotta excuse me,
I gotta jump to one more call here before the
hour's up. Yeah, no, thank you, Thanks Jamie, talk to
you soon. Lewis and Wilmington. Lewis, You're going to wrap
the hour first, go right ahead, Lewis.
Speaker 8 (37:28):
Yeah, I blame the town managers from these communities that
has gone this flop, and so at this point later
on the communities need to remember these people that are
running their town business are failing at this. The other
thing is the teachers union shouldn't plan to strike before
school started, not in the middle of the season now
which there is a law, so it needs. Union leaders
(37:52):
need to be arrested or order your people back to work.
You did this at the wrong time and this classes
must continue.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, I would agree with that point. I think I
don't think they need to be arrested, but I think
they get called into court and they're told, hey, look,
you're the leaders of this. You have to tell your
union members to go back to work, because we're not
only going to find the union, but we're going to
hold you in contempt of court if you're if your
membership doesn't. This is such an incredible look Lewis. Last
(38:23):
winter in Newton, last January, I think the teachers union
was out on strike for like fourteen days, nearly three weeks.
I mean in the middle of the school year. That
was horrific. The Teachers' Union is basically flexing their muscle politically.
They flexed it politically on getting rid of the mcast test,
and we're going to see more of this and affecting
(38:44):
more communities unless some judge or some group steps up
and says this cannot stand. If you want it, if
you want to walk out, if you want to threaten
to strike, do it in August, do it in July
on your own time. Don't do it in the time
of the students. I think you made a great point.
Speaker 5 (39:00):
Okay, good night now, Kevin, great.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Knight, Lewis, appreciate the call. Okay, well, the folks who
are just calling now. Unfortunately we're out of time. So
when we get back, we're going to talk about the
Democratic Party. Did they need to regroup after this horrific
political result on Tuesday night? From the Democratics. From the
Democratic Party's point of view, they lost the Senate, they
(39:22):
lost the White House, and I think they will continue
to be in the minority in the House of Representatives.
And Seth Moulton, a cognitis from Massachusetts, made some comments
in The New York Times, which has generated a lot
of controversy. We hope to have Seth Moulton on with
us sometime next week. But I think the point that
he made from a political point of view, although he's
(39:43):
taking a lot of heat for tonight, makes a lot
of sense. I'll explain why right after the ten o'clock
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