November 19, 2024 • 37 mins
The offshore wind industry has seen traction in recent years, gaining government backing. While offshore wind is seen by some as a way to reduce reliance on fossil fuels, others take aim with the wind projects, citing environmental concerns; especially after last Summer’s Nantucket wind turbine failure that left debris littered across Nantucket beaches. What are the pros and cons of offshore wind? Dustin Delano of the New England Fishermen’s Stewardship Association and Grant Provost from the New England for Offshore Wind coalition both joined Dan Rea for a discussion.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's night Side with Dan Ray WBZ Constance Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, welcome back everybody, as we begin the nine
o'clock hour, and we're going to talk about offshore wind
here in New England. And we had scheduled a guest
who is with us, Dustin Delano. He's with the New
England Fisherman Stewardship Association. Dustin, welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
You're very welcome. We had also extended an invitation to
the group called the New England off New England four
Offshore Wind Coalition. We had not heard from them, and
we are now being joined by Grand Provo, who is
a member. I'm not sure, is it Provost? Give me
(00:51):
the correct pronunciation? Okay, so it's the anglicized pronunciation, Provosts.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
You got it the second time.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Okay, that's good. That's good. The New England for Offshore
Wind Coalition. So let's just have a discussion here so
that we can get everybody's point of view out as
to the positives and the negatives of the proposal. And
I expect that both of you will treat one another,
(01:18):
you know, professionally, and we'll also take phone calls if
people want to join the conversation. So let me start off.
Grant tell us about the New England New England for
Offshore Wind Coalition. I may bungle these names because they're
pretty similar. Who makes up the New England for Offshore
(01:40):
Wind Coalition?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
So we're a coalition of labor, social justice and environmental organizations.
You have the e l M in there, you have
some members of different a fl CIOs who represent different
labor unions. You've got building trades members. And the coalitions
ends from uh, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire
(02:06):
and Vermont.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Okay, well, there's no offshore wind in I assume in
Vermont at least maybe off of Lake ship Plane.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
But now, but they have green energy goals. To meet
their pro you know, they need to procure green energy
from someplace. You know, Massachusetts gets green energy from hydro Quebec.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So yep, I'm very familiar with that. So how long
has your coalition been around.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I've been a member for five years. I'm currently the
vice president of the main a f l c i
O and I'm a business agent Fire Workers Ocal seven
in the state of Maine. It was a lot smaller
back then. It's grown considerably over the last five years.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
But yeah, I assume the answer is five years. Yes, okay,
And then where's your funding come from? Is it just
come from labor unions?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
No, I mean it's in viros too. I'm not sure
how they do their funding. But yeah, and we're just
coalition members.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
No, No, right, you're the vice president of the organization. Right.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Wow, the AFL is different. It's an umbrella of different
labor unions. You know, it could be like the Postal Service,
could be teachers there.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Don't confuse me here. I'm just trying. What I'm trying
to get in my arms around, and I want to
do this with both of you. Is you're an officer
in the New England for Offshore win coalition. I thought
that's what if I misheard you, I apologize.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
No, I mean it's a it's a little different. It's
just a little technicality. I'm sorry. I don't need to
confuse it. You know, we're there's a steering committee of
a few people, and then there's a bunch of different
coalitions and businesses. Black Economic Council of Massachusetts. It's over
one hundred one hundred uh businesses, labor associations.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And organ Well, let me put it like this, who
is going to build the turbines? Uh? Who's who's funding
the construction of the turbines that your organization would advocate for?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Uh? The developers would fund the projects and the building
trades would provide the labor for those No.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I get that. No, I I know the developers are
not going to be out there in the water, trust
me on that. So who are the developers? Uh?
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Well, n the developers to be just.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
To be to be candid, grant, let me, you know,
let me go across to the table there. I assume
there is significant business corporate interests here as well as
you know, labor unions which would like to see people
get jobs. I get that. So I'm just wondering where's
the money coming from. Where's the money coming from labor unions?
(05:01):
Is what I'm trying to get at.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Well, I mean, the labor unions are nonprofits that get
paid by membership deduction.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
The labor unions were Grant, Grant, I get it. I'm
a member of a labor union, a member of SAG
after Okay, I've been a member of a labor brief
over fifty years. Okay, so I know how that works.
But what I'm trying to understand is who is behind
the effort to build the turbines. The labor unions might
construct the turbines, but where's the money coming from for
(05:36):
the projects? Is what I'm asking? And if you don't know,
feel free to tell me that.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Well, I mean, I guess I got confused because I
mean ratepayers say for the projects, for the developers to bid,
and the developers put the money up front. A funding
for our coalition would come from whatever money.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I don't care about funding for the coalition. You're trying
to do about answer my questions directly or maybe I'm
not articulating them.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Well, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
That We'll come back to it. Okay, Dustin, how are
you tonight? Dustin Delano of the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association. Dustin,
tell us about your organization. How long have you folks
been around and how large is your membership and who
supports you? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
So I'm with the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association and
we are a very new organization, very grassroots. We represent
commercial fishermen all across New England, and any consumer who
also wants to participate and be involved with us as
well has opportunity to be members. We currently our membership
(06:46):
is right around nine hundred active members and businesses. And
like I said, we're spread out from Maine all the
way through Connecticut and Rhode Island.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So you're opposed to offshore wind far I assuming I'm
aware of that, correct?
Speaker 4 (07:04):
We are?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yes? Okay? Why are you opposed to what? I'm sure
the other side is going to say, natural clean energy.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I think the primary reason for our opposition is that,
you know, we represent the interests of coastal communities and
and you know the fishermen that they depend on to
exist and continue on in their their generational legacy, and
offshore wind directly displaces all of those people wherever it comes.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
How close if you know, how close are some of
the turbines that would be built, say off of Maine,
which might affect you, how close are they to to
not only fishing grounds, but how close close are they
proposed to the coastline?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
So in the Gulf of Maine, they're they're further offshore.
I think the closest, the closest commercial site is supposed
to be around forty just over forty miles off shore.
There is a test site being developed by the State
of Maine which is about twenty miles off shore. And
(08:16):
these sites are you know, it's not about how close
they are to fishing grounds, it's that they are in
the fishing grounds.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So therefore residents are not going to I mean, the
water is the horizon and the ocean is about sixteen miles,
so if they're twenty to forty miles away, people are
not going to see these from the shore. But you're
(08:47):
saying it's going to affect the fishing grounds. What will
it do to the fishing grounds?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Well, that's still remains to be seen. But I can
tell you that I've sat through I couldn't even count
presentations that I've sat through in the last twelve years
about offshore wind and what we talk about. What we're
talking about in the Gulf of Maine specifically is floating
offshore wind technology, and of course that technology is constantly changing,
(09:15):
and when we have meetings, they they tell us that,
you know, they the technology will be different when they're
actually in the water than what may exist right now,
which makes it even more difficult for us to have
any type of conversation because we don't really know what
these anchoring systems are going to be like and what
these bases will look like. All I can speak to
(09:37):
is different things that we've seen in the past, which
have been like it's been presented as you know, giant
cement floating bases the size of a football field with
you know, eight hundred nine hundred thousand foot structures on
top of them.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Which will you say that they're not embedded in the
in the seabad, you say that they're sitting on cement
which is sitting on the seabed.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
They're sitting on cement which will be floating on top
of the water column, and they will be anchored to
the bottom. And the types of anchoring systems vary depending
on who you talk to, but a lot of the
original planning that was going on was for like three
sets of anchoring systems for each turbine with chain links
(10:24):
the size of a pickup bed and scope anywhere from
seven to one or nine to one to the water death.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
We're going to Okay, I'm getting into the weeds a
little bit there. Let me take a break. When we
come back, I want to talk about the pros and
cons of this and the success that we've had around
New England so far, and of course we had the
problems with the blades breaking off off the coast of
Nantucket just a few months ago. We'll get to all
(10:52):
of that, My guests on the line together and I'll
have them at some point. They'll probably want to talk
with one another. Dustin Delano, who you just were listening to,
the New England Fishermen Stewardship Association and Grant Provost. He's
with the New England for Offshore Wind Coalition. Or take
a quick break back on night Side if you'd like
to join the conversation. I'll tell you we're gonna have
(11:14):
at least one more break, one more break before we
get to phone calls. But if you want to get
on the air and ask questions and make comments, the
numbers are six, one, seven, two, five, four to ten
thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty back
on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on DUMBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
We're talking about offshore wind and let's talk from the
perspective of a Grant provost who's with the New England
for Offshore Wind coalition Grant, I'm going to ask both
you and and Dustin to keep you your answers a
little tighter because I want to make some room for
some phone calls, which we'll start right after nine thirty.
(11:57):
What's the long term benefit here if we put aside
the environmental concerns and the fishing industry concerns. What's the
payoff for people in New England and when will they
feel that payoff? Assuming that you can proceed on the
timeline that you would prefer.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
I think a big benefit will be state stability and
electricity rates. They'll come in and they'll stay at a
rate as opposed to fluctuating crisis with whatever happens geopolitically
in the in the world. There'll be a war in
Ukraine and you know, Russian oil won't be allowed on
the market, and or Opak will make a decision that
(12:39):
they'll hold back oil production and then prices will go
up because of the cost when you have a lease
area they've been in at a certain price.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
What sort of So would this be electricity and power
just for New England or would you your companies that
that you support. Will they be selling this product nationwide?
Speaker 4 (13:06):
I think when it gets on the bread, the electrons
don't discriminate where they go. I mean, that becomes part
of the overall package. But you know, it'll be a
stable source of electricity for New Englanders.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And I understand it's a fungible commodity. I do get that, okay,
But the question is if we have turbines off the
coast of New England impacting our fishing industry, are we
going to incur a greater cost and inconvenience to provide uh,
you know, stable electric rates for people in other parts
(13:39):
of the country. Are we being asked here in New
England to do more than we should? Give me A
quick response to that.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
I would say, now, you know, it's all part of
changing our energy source into something that's more climate friendly.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
So what the rest of the country is is your
your focus is on New England. I get that, But
is this happening yeah, all on both coasts, and is
it happening in the in the the central part of
the country. Obviously they're not doing offshore winter mines, are
they win there's a lot of wind in places like Texas,
Oklahoma and Kansas they can contribute as well.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yeah, there's a lot of wind, and there's a lot
of solar, especially in the southwest. California's going to do
floating offshore wind. That's going to be similar here. And
you'll have, you know, a thirty year lease at a
set rate that they're going to be paying in so
you'll have initial construction jobs as well. You know, all
these jobs are going to be one hundred thousand dollars
a year jobs. Vineyard Wind created a thousand of them.
(14:36):
We're talking ten million dollars economic output into family's pockets
per year.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Vineyard. Then you have the company that went out of
that basically stopped the project. It was Vineyard Wind the
project that has the problem with the blades.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
That's I mean, I'm not an exec for Vineyard Wind,
are familiar with it, but you know, from what I've
heard say, single blade a situation and they halted their project.
I'm not sure if it started up again, I believe
you know, it would be a matter of time.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, Dustin, let me come back
to you. So Grant has just talked about the benefit.
You know, it sounds to me like there I don't
know if they're going to try to retrain you guys.
Will this destroy the fishing industry? Is it just going
to make your job a little tougher and everybody's got
to sacrifice a little bit? What do you what do
you say on to points that that grants us raised?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I think that there are so many environmental concerns that
are unknown that make it extremely difficult to predict what
the for sure outcome will be. What I do know
is that the spatial impact it does completely remove fishermen
from any areas where you know, floating offshore. When technology
is used, it's not possible to coexist in those areas.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Can those areas be limited dust? And so that let's
say it's a five mile square mile area that's limited
and you've got the rest of the ocean. Is there
is there any way to compromise her?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
So it's you know, we have a number of fisheries
in New England. You know, we have what people hear
most about is a lobster fishery, a trap pop fishery,
but we also have a very large mobile fleet and
those fisheries focus on very different types of bottom and
so basically all the bottom out there is covered by
(16:29):
some sort of fishery, and so when you start pushing
people around and moving things around, everybody has to sort
of overlap or or move and you can't just you
can't just pack up and move somewhere else. I couldn't
just haul on my eight hundred traps and steam east,
you know, fifty miles and set them because that is
(16:50):
area that is being utilized by other people in there
just isn't there isn't space for us to be able
to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Okay, gentlemen, what's going to take a break here for
the for the nine thirty news we come back. I'm
going to ask the two of you to address concerns
that each of you have just to try to get this.
The conversation has been very good, and I appreciate both
of you being gentlemanly here, which is great. Obviously there's
a lot at stake. We'll continue with our conversation. We're
(17:17):
talking about wind, offshore wind and its particular impact on
the fishing industry here in Massachusetts. It is not an
easy call to make. I'm sure we have two guests,
dustin Delano, who you just heard is the is with
the New England Fishermen Stewardship Association, and we're also being
(17:37):
joined by Grant Provost, who is with the New England
for Offshore Wind Coalition. We will have more conversation and
if you'd like to participate, the numbers are six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty or six one seven, nine three
one ten thirty. My name's Dan Ray. This is Nightside.
I'll be back with my guests and maybe even some
(17:59):
of your phone calls after.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
This Night with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Before we get to phone calls, let me kind of
give a challenge to each of you, and that is Grant.
Why don't you explain to Dustin why his business, his livelihood,
has to stand down and allow these farms or wind farms,
(18:31):
whatever you want to call them be built. I think
that you must recognize that although you have a lot
of workers and probably you know construction people anxious to
work out there on these projects, it is going to
affect another branch of labor, and that's the fishing industry.
What would you say to him if you were sitting
down over a cup of coffee, well, for that matter
(18:52):
of beer tonight, what would you say to him grant
as well as you could.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I don't know if you know exactly what you're saying.
I mean, I reprospect that's in a lot he's He's
an awesome advocate for his organization. I've seen him over
the years, you know, grow into a really, really great leader.
I don't think I would kind of sell him on that,
you know. I mean, I share some of the same
concerns he does for people's livelihood. And you know, I
(19:21):
represent workers, and my workers stand to make a pretty
good living, and we can take some people in from
disengaged communities and a lot of people are going to
do pretty well from how I work to represent my members.
But you know, tell him I know how he should
represent his or or anything kind of in that direction.
(19:43):
I don't think I can do.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So you have no option to say to him, hey, look,
maybe this might be a career change for some of
your guys. That there's nothing that you can say to
him to even soften the impact of what this will do.
I mean, this will have a very I assume you
would admit this will have a huge impact on the
industry that he represents.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
It's going to have impact, whether it's huge or small.
I know I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I couldn't.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
I can't tell you there. I know it didn't work
very hard on a building a state of Maine to
push the area that any commercial project could be outside
of lm A one, which is a lobster management area
where a majority of fishermen work in the state of Maine,
not all of them. But I would never intend to
convents Dustin otherwise about his own industry.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Enough, okay, that's an honest answer, Dustin, I'll turn the
table on you and give you a chance to address
Grant again. You're both people who have some disparate labor concerns.
At this point, you're obviously concerned about your membership your industry.
What would you say to or can you say anything
(20:59):
to Grant Provost on the other side of the argument
that might convince him that there's other avenues that that
this fledgling industry of of of wind energy could I
could look into and to help save many of the
jobs of your members. What would you say to him?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Sorry, I dropped off again there for a minute, wonderful
service in Maine. Could you just repeat that really quickly.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I'll try. I didn't realize you had dropped off. Okay,
you heard what Grant said to you that pretty much
there was not much he could say, and he represented
it that he respected your position. I get all of that,
and also said that he's representing certain members of people
who will benefit workers who will benefit from the construction
(21:51):
of of offshore wind projects. Conversely, your group of supporters,
your membership is going to be adversely impacted. I think
he said, you know. I asked him, and he said, well,
I don't know by how much, but obviously it be
an impact. He was pretty honest about it. What would
you say to him again, as a fellow representative of
(22:13):
families and of workers, is there any any any suggestion
you can make to him that that maybe there's a
there's an alternative course they can travel other than just
plucking these uh these wind turbines in the area that
you folks normally fish.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, so there's there's a lot there. But you know,
I will say you probably didn't expect that Grant and
I would know each other, but we have been on
opposite side of this issue for a few years, but
have been very cordial with one another and respectful of
each other. But I you know, my association represents all
different types of fishermen and so you know, when you
(22:57):
look at it as a lobsterman who only fishes from Maine,
there was some legislation that was crafted to minimize the
impact to those guys, and we were part of, you know,
pushing through, pushing that through and encouraging that to happen.
But we also represent people who fish outside of there
from other states, and people who you know, use mubile
gear and all of that, and so we we we
(23:19):
have held this strong position of opposing offshore wind because
of the severe displacement that that will lead to for
other fisheries in those regions. And aside from that, there
are we have highlighted many environmental concerns which we just
don't know enough information yet. Right, there's just been this.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
What percentage of your membership would be so adversely impacted
by this that they would lose their livelihoods?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Uh, I would have to say, you know that there's
there's less people out there, so maybe twenty five percent.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
So if you have a membership of nine hundred people,
twenty five percent of that is about two hundred and
twenty five jobs, two hundred twenty five livelihoods. Which cannot
be minimized, but it doesn't destroy the fishing industry, is
what I'm hearing you say. Am I misreading you?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
With the thing is that we just don't know. We
don't know what the environmental harms will be. I mean,
in order for these operations to exist in offshore waters,
they need to have cooling stations, They need to have
a lot of different things, which cooling stations, active heat
exchanges for the cables, and they will dump millions of
(24:40):
gallons of hot water back into the Gulf of Maine
day after day after day. And all of these types
of things are what we have raised concerns about, right
and we don't know what that will do. We just
know that, you know, certain species in the ocean don't
appreciate ninety degree water.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Okay, fair enough, Grant, Let me let me have you
if you could address those concerns. Those are some legitimate
concerns that Dustin just raised. How How has have those
addressed been addressed by offshore wind in other parts of
the country. I assume the same issues would occur.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
I think we're in a fledgling kind of industry right now,
and the only offshore wind projects are in the northeast
currently right now, the Urmans themselves are air cooled, so
less of a concern there. I think that the major
concern would be around any type of substation at sea,
possibly you know, cooling. For those not super on the
(25:43):
technical aspect, says I'm not an engineer, but yeah, well okay, so.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, and great, let me.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
I would say, you know, when these things go off shore, yeah,
you know there. I mean I would be concerned about,
you know, something being in the water for any period
of time, you know, to gross things. It creates ecosystems.
And with these uh arrays being so far offshore, different
(26:16):
adverse weather, and you know, large fished populations in a
new ecosystem could could raise a lever of a level
of danger for the people who work the waters. That
would be a concern.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I would have. Okay, am, I to understand you, you correctly,
granted you said that there's no offshore wind farms or
turbines or whatever operationally anywhere in the country that we
can we can draw history from, not off California off
(26:49):
more temperate climbings.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
No, sorry, there's not in there's not in California, And
there's Block Island Sound and they're fags six mega ones,
so they're smaller than the ones that they're doing now
for Vineyard with no sense station. So you know, Vineyard
one is really the first commercial and then Commonwealth is
or Revolution is next one of the two I can't remember,
(27:12):
but yeah, these are the very first ones to get going,
and they were the fixed modefile. We won't see floating.
I don't even think we'll see floating in the one
of the study.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Okay. And then so, so you said that Vineyard one
is the is the company that that I was trying
to get at earlier tonight? Is that is that the
company that's that's that's negotiating this with the legislature in
in Maine or wherever else or with the federal government?
Is it is the company called Vineyard one.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Uh, well, it's Vineyard one, and Vineyard one is the
fleece area they recently, I think Vineyard two they came
in the try to stay solicitation with Connecticut where island?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Okay, So so that's not the un company that that's
the name of the geographic area.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
So Vineyard one was one day with Vineyard Wind and
they are co developing it. I think it's aving Grid
was in there with Copenhagen Investment Partners and they split
that first project and then Vineyard One became its own entity,
I believe.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Okay, So now we're now we're getting down to who
owns Vineyard.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
One Vineyard Wind after Wind developers.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Okay? Is it again? The connection is not great? Are
you saying Vineyard one of Vineyard Wind? If you could
just spell it so I he can hear it? Correct
win win Okay, who's the primary owner of Vineyard Wind?
Is it a corporation? Is an LLC? I can handle it?
Is the private individuals, it's a it's a corporation.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Uh, it's a little tricky if I can just go.
I mean, I'm not fully you know there. But so
basically bo lease is an area, but they pay for
the lease area and then they put their turbans, will
say hey to construct inside of the lease area. And
then it's it's for the state of Maine. The legislature
directs the utility to precious power off them for a
(29:20):
certain amount of years. So I'm a thirty year lease
to sell power to rape painters.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Get that? No, I get that. But again, the question
that I think you're ducking on me, and I hope
that you're not ducky intentionally. Is there has to be
an individual and or corporation which which is probably privately held.
These companies are not publicly traded, correct.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Oh jeezus, I imagine some of them are in you know,
like Vineyard, I don't think is publicly traded.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
But so you can you can't gear the name of
you can't give me the name of one big investor.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
No as a developer.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
But some corporations are publicly traded, publicly owned. Others are
privately owned, Okay, And people who own private corporations of
this magnitude will stand to make an immense amount of money,
much more money than all of the workers combined. Gentlemen,
Gonna take quick break and if if someone out there
(30:34):
wants to ask a question that I haven't asked, feel
free six one seven two five six one seven nine.
We'll be back right after this.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Now back to Dan ray Mine from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
During the break, my guest uh remaining with us, Dustin Delano,
the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association. He's concerned about the
liveliheerds of Button nine hundred fishermen off the coast of
fisherman families off the coast of Maine and grant Provo
with the New England for offshore wind coalition. Vineyard one
(31:12):
is jointly owned by two companies, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners and Iberdrola,
through a subsidiary of avan Grid Renewables. Copenhagen Infrastructure is
as the world's largest dedicated fund manager within greenfield renewable
(31:37):
energy investments and a global leader in offshore wind Okay.
The company is privately held out of Copenhagen Debtmark, so
it's a private company which the shares are owned by individuals.
They're not offered to be traded publicly. They traded or
(32:00):
exchanged privately, known as over the counter. It's interesting. I mean,
there's some people here are going to make a lot
of money, and it sounds to me like most of
them are from Denmark. As a matter of fact, that
the key people, which I assume indicates ownership, Jakob Barrow Lopoulsen,
(32:21):
Christian T. Scott Bach, Torsten Luberg Schmid and Christina grumpscherp
Shansen are the key people of Copenhagen infrastructure partners. I
want to ask Grant Grant, why are they're not more
American companies involved in this since it's going to be
(32:41):
American jobs that will be lost in American waters that
will be plumbed.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Wells. Actually, the industry is a fledgeling right now. There
are American companies that are learning and they're American developers.
There's Americans working in Europe on offshore wind projects. For Dominion.
It's not Dominion, I'm sorry, it's for Demi. It was
like one of these international merchant marine companies. I basically got,
(33:14):
you know, for the Dominion project their developer now and
they've purchased some lease areas from other people. They have
a large project in Virginia area. And then even Energy,
which purchased two of the lease areas in the Gulf
of Maine, is also a US based company. However, Denmark,
(33:37):
the UK Norway they're first movers in this and they've
been working on offshore why then, they have been building
offshore wind farms in Europe for twenty years plus.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
All right, okay, well again, I thank you for your
your candor. And it's a difficult situation for the first
in Maine so let me give a final comment to Dustin. Dustin,
make the case as best you can that the area
(34:10):
that your fishermen conduct their business in needs to be protected.
And I don't know if you've gotten any support. I
understand that there was a period of time where Donald
Trump stopped some of this activity while he was president
and then President Biden. According to some of the materials
(34:33):
I'm looking at, while he was president. Well, there's an
article here which on vineyard wind which I want to
read very quickly, and that is a final environmental impact
statement was released in March of twenty twenty one. Approval
was delayed during the term of US President Donald Trump
due to concerns regarding fishing in safety. That permission was
(34:53):
fast tracked after Joe Biden took office. Final major federal
approval was granted in May of twenty twenty one. Uh, Dustin,
do you have more hope now that Donald Trump will
will resume Uh, the the the White House, return to
the White House, the that you're going to be treated better,
(35:14):
the fisherman be treated better by Donald Trump than Joe Biden.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
I mean, I think if we go directly to the issue,
a lot of us are familiar with you know, uh
uh Donald Trump's podcast with Joe Rogan where he said
that he would put a stop top for wind development.
And so I think there are a lot of fishermen
that have put a lot of hope in that, and
you know, we we hope that those promises will be
(35:41):
followed through. And if I may may just say one
more thing too, you know, we have members who fish
in those areas where Vineyard Wind is and even further
south and west of there where there's other other turbines,
and it's incredibly disheartening to them to be kicked out
of areas or have areas, you know, the bottom and
(36:03):
in areas completely altered, you know, with moving structures on
the bottom and moving boulders and just you know, the
areas that have been navigating for generations to be disrupted
and the vessels that are in there doing the work
are all foreign, are all flying foreign flags. That's incredibly disheartening.
And on one other thing, if you.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Don't mind, you got any quick here, because I'm running
out of time very quickly.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
The Gulf of Maine, these areas in the Gulf of Maine,
these leases went for fifty dollars an acre fifty dollars
an acre for the ocean that we make a living from.
One fish could be more than fifty dollars one haul
of it, and that area went for fifty bucks.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
All right, gentlemen, Dustin Delano, thank you, Grant Provost, thank you.
This is a tough set of circumstances, very important, competing interests.
I tried to get two people who could have addressed
it tonight. They both did very well representing their point
of view, and I thank them for being gentlemanly and
(37:07):
being constructive and advocates for their constituencies. Gentlemen, thank you
very much. Thank you. All right, good night. We'll be
back right after the ten o'clock news here on nights side,
and we're going to maybe just relax a little bit
and talk about how are you going to handle Thanksgiving
dinner in your family? I mean, if there are people,
(37:29):
and they probably are people in your family who voted
in the presidential election a little bit differently, how can
we both allow for conversation and make sure the conversation
stays under control. How do we strike that balance. We'll
talk about it on the other side of the tent.
It's night Side with Dan Ray WBZ Constance Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, welcome back everybody, as we begin the nine
o'clock hour, and we're going to talk about offshore wind
here in New England. And we had scheduled a guest
who is with us, Dustin Delano. He's with the New
England Fisherman Stewardship Association. Dustin, welcome to Nightside. How are you, sir.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
You're very welcome. We had also extended an invitation to
the group called the New England off New England four
Offshore Wind Coalition. We had not heard from them, and
we are now being joined by Grand Provo, who is
a member. I'm not sure, is it Provost? Give me
(00:51):
the correct pronunciation? Okay, so it's the anglicized pronunciation, Provosts.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
You got it the second time.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Okay, that's good. That's good. The New England for Offshore
Wind Coalition. So let's just have a discussion here so
that we can get everybody's point of view out as
to the positives and the negatives of the proposal. And
I expect that both of you will treat one another,
(01:18):
you know, professionally, and we'll also take phone calls if
people want to join the conversation. So let me start off.
Grant tell us about the New England New England for
Offshore Wind Coalition. I may bungle these names because they're
pretty similar. Who makes up the New England for Offshore
(01:40):
Wind Coalition?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
So we're a coalition of labor, social justice and environmental organizations.
You have the e l M in there, you have
some members of different a fl CIOs who represent different
labor unions. You've got building trades members. And the coalitions
ends from uh, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire
(02:06):
and Vermont.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Okay, well, there's no offshore wind in I assume in
Vermont at least maybe off of Lake ship Plane.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
But now, but they have green energy goals. To meet
their pro you know, they need to procure green energy
from someplace. You know, Massachusetts gets green energy from hydro Quebec.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So yep, I'm very familiar with that. So how long
has your coalition been around.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I've been a member for five years. I'm currently the
vice president of the main a f l c i
O and I'm a business agent Fire Workers Ocal seven
in the state of Maine. It was a lot smaller
back then. It's grown considerably over the last five years.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
But yeah, I assume the answer is five years. Yes, okay,
And then where's your funding come from? Is it just
come from labor unions?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
No, I mean it's in viros too. I'm not sure
how they do their funding. But yeah, and we're just
coalition members.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
No, No, right, you're the vice president of the organization. Right.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Wow, the AFL is different. It's an umbrella of different
labor unions. You know, it could be like the Postal Service,
could be teachers there.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Don't confuse me here. I'm just trying. What I'm trying
to get in my arms around, and I want to
do this with both of you. Is you're an officer
in the New England for Offshore win coalition. I thought
that's what if I misheard you, I apologize.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
No, I mean it's a it's a little different. It's
just a little technicality. I'm sorry. I don't need to
confuse it. You know, we're there's a steering committee of
a few people, and then there's a bunch of different
coalitions and businesses. Black Economic Council of Massachusetts. It's over
one hundred one hundred uh businesses, labor associations.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And organ Well, let me put it like this, who
is going to build the turbines? Uh? Who's who's funding
the construction of the turbines that your organization would advocate for?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Uh? The developers would fund the projects and the building
trades would provide the labor for those No.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I get that. No, I I know the developers are
not going to be out there in the water, trust
me on that. So who are the developers? Uh?
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Well, n the developers to be just.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
To be to be candid, grant, let me, you know,
let me go across to the table there. I assume
there is significant business corporate interests here as well as
you know, labor unions which would like to see people
get jobs. I get that. So I'm just wondering where's
the money coming from. Where's the money coming from labor unions?
(05:01):
Is what I'm trying to get at.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Well, I mean, the labor unions are nonprofits that get
paid by membership deduction.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
The labor unions were Grant, Grant, I get it. I'm
a member of a labor union, a member of SAG
after Okay, I've been a member of a labor brief
over fifty years. Okay, so I know how that works.
But what I'm trying to understand is who is behind
the effort to build the turbines. The labor unions might
construct the turbines, but where's the money coming from for
(05:36):
the projects? Is what I'm asking? And if you don't know,
feel free to tell me that.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Well, I mean, I guess I got confused because I
mean ratepayers say for the projects, for the developers to bid,
and the developers put the money up front. A funding
for our coalition would come from whatever money.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I don't care about funding for the coalition. You're trying
to do about answer my questions directly or maybe I'm
not articulating them.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Well, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
That We'll come back to it. Okay, Dustin, how are
you tonight? Dustin Delano of the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association. Dustin,
tell us about your organization. How long have you folks
been around and how large is your membership and who
supports you? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
So I'm with the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association and
we are a very new organization, very grassroots. We represent
commercial fishermen all across New England, and any consumer who
also wants to participate and be involved with us as
well has opportunity to be members. We currently our membership
(06:46):
is right around nine hundred active members and businesses. And
like I said, we're spread out from Maine all the
way through Connecticut and Rhode Island.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So you're opposed to offshore wind far I assuming I'm
aware of that, correct?
Speaker 4 (07:04):
We are?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yes? Okay? Why are you opposed to what? I'm sure
the other side is going to say, natural clean energy.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I think the primary reason for our opposition is that,
you know, we represent the interests of coastal communities and
and you know the fishermen that they depend on to
exist and continue on in their their generational legacy, and
offshore wind directly displaces all of those people wherever it comes.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
How close if you know, how close are some of
the turbines that would be built, say off of Maine,
which might affect you, how close are they to to
not only fishing grounds, but how close close are they
proposed to the coastline?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
So in the Gulf of Maine, they're they're further offshore.
I think the closest, the closest commercial site is supposed
to be around forty just over forty miles off shore.
There is a test site being developed by the State
of Maine which is about twenty miles off shore. And
(08:16):
these sites are you know, it's not about how close
they are to fishing grounds, it's that they are in
the fishing grounds.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So therefore residents are not going to I mean, the
water is the horizon and the ocean is about sixteen miles,
so if they're twenty to forty miles away, people are
not going to see these from the shore. But you're
(08:47):
saying it's going to affect the fishing grounds. What will
it do to the fishing grounds?
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Well, that's still remains to be seen. But I can
tell you that I've sat through I couldn't even count
presentations that I've sat through in the last twelve years
about offshore wind and what we talk about. What we're
talking about in the Gulf of Maine specifically is floating
offshore wind technology, and of course that technology is constantly changing,
(09:15):
and when we have meetings, they they tell us that,
you know, they the technology will be different when they're
actually in the water than what may exist right now,
which makes it even more difficult for us to have
any type of conversation because we don't really know what
these anchoring systems are going to be like and what
these bases will look like. All I can speak to
(09:37):
is different things that we've seen in the past, which
have been like it's been presented as you know, giant
cement floating bases the size of a football field with
you know, eight hundred nine hundred thousand foot structures on
top of them.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Which will you say that they're not embedded in the
in the seabad, you say that they're sitting on cement
which is sitting on the seabed.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
They're sitting on cement which will be floating on top
of the water column, and they will be anchored to
the bottom. And the types of anchoring systems vary depending
on who you talk to, but a lot of the
original planning that was going on was for like three
sets of anchoring systems for each turbine with chain links
(10:24):
the size of a pickup bed and scope anywhere from
seven to one or nine to one to the water death.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
We're going to Okay, I'm getting into the weeds a
little bit there. Let me take a break. When we
come back, I want to talk about the pros and
cons of this and the success that we've had around
New England so far, and of course we had the
problems with the blades breaking off off the coast of
Nantucket just a few months ago. We'll get to all
(10:52):
of that, My guests on the line together and I'll
have them at some point. They'll probably want to talk
with one another. Dustin Delano, who you just were listening to,
the New England Fishermen Stewardship Association and Grant Provost. He's
with the New England for Offshore Wind Coalition. Or take
a quick break back on night Side if you'd like
to join the conversation. I'll tell you we're gonna have
(11:14):
at least one more break, one more break before we
get to phone calls. But if you want to get
on the air and ask questions and make comments, the
numbers are six, one, seven, two, five, four to ten
thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty back
on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on DUMBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
We're talking about offshore wind and let's talk from the
perspective of a Grant provost who's with the New England
for Offshore Wind coalition Grant, I'm going to ask both
you and and Dustin to keep you your answers a
little tighter because I want to make some room for
some phone calls, which we'll start right after nine thirty.
(11:57):
What's the long term benefit here if we put aside
the environmental concerns and the fishing industry concerns. What's the
payoff for people in New England and when will they
feel that payoff? Assuming that you can proceed on the
timeline that you would prefer.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
I think a big benefit will be state stability and
electricity rates. They'll come in and they'll stay at a
rate as opposed to fluctuating crisis with whatever happens geopolitically
in the in the world. There'll be a war in
Ukraine and you know, Russian oil won't be allowed on
the market, and or Opak will make a decision that
(12:39):
they'll hold back oil production and then prices will go
up because of the cost when you have a lease
area they've been in at a certain price.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
What sort of So would this be electricity and power
just for New England or would you your companies that
that you support. Will they be selling this product nationwide?
Speaker 4 (13:06):
I think when it gets on the bread, the electrons
don't discriminate where they go. I mean, that becomes part
of the overall package. But you know, it'll be a
stable source of electricity for New Englanders.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And I understand it's a fungible commodity. I do get that, okay,
But the question is if we have turbines off the
coast of New England impacting our fishing industry, are we
going to incur a greater cost and inconvenience to provide uh,
you know, stable electric rates for people in other parts
(13:39):
of the country. Are we being asked here in New
England to do more than we should? Give me A
quick response to that.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
I would say, now, you know, it's all part of
changing our energy source into something that's more climate friendly.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
So what the rest of the country is is your
your focus is on New England. I get that, But
is this happening yeah, all on both coasts, and is
it happening in the in the the central part of
the country. Obviously they're not doing offshore winter mines, are
they win there's a lot of wind in places like Texas,
Oklahoma and Kansas they can contribute as well.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yeah, there's a lot of wind, and there's a lot
of solar, especially in the southwest. California's going to do
floating offshore wind. That's going to be similar here. And
you'll have, you know, a thirty year lease at a
set rate that they're going to be paying in so
you'll have initial construction jobs as well. You know, all
these jobs are going to be one hundred thousand dollars
a year jobs. Vineyard Wind created a thousand of them.
(14:36):
We're talking ten million dollars economic output into family's pockets
per year.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Vineyard. Then you have the company that went out of
that basically stopped the project. It was Vineyard Wind the
project that has the problem with the blades.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
That's I mean, I'm not an exec for Vineyard Wind,
are familiar with it, but you know, from what I've
heard say, single blade a situation and they halted their project.
I'm not sure if it started up again, I believe
you know, it would be a matter of time.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, Dustin, let me come back
to you. So Grant has just talked about the benefit.
You know, it sounds to me like there I don't
know if they're going to try to retrain you guys.
Will this destroy the fishing industry? Is it just going
to make your job a little tougher and everybody's got
to sacrifice a little bit? What do you what do
you say on to points that that grants us raised?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I think that there are so many environmental concerns that
are unknown that make it extremely difficult to predict what
the for sure outcome will be. What I do know
is that the spatial impact it does completely remove fishermen
from any areas where you know, floating offshore. When technology
is used, it's not possible to coexist in those areas.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Can those areas be limited dust? And so that let's
say it's a five mile square mile area that's limited
and you've got the rest of the ocean. Is there
is there any way to compromise her?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
So it's you know, we have a number of fisheries
in New England. You know, we have what people hear
most about is a lobster fishery, a trap pop fishery,
but we also have a very large mobile fleet and
those fisheries focus on very different types of bottom and
so basically all the bottom out there is covered by
(16:29):
some sort of fishery, and so when you start pushing
people around and moving things around, everybody has to sort
of overlap or or move and you can't just you
can't just pack up and move somewhere else. I couldn't
just haul on my eight hundred traps and steam east,
you know, fifty miles and set them because that is
(16:50):
area that is being utilized by other people in there
just isn't there isn't space for us to be able
to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Okay, gentlemen, what's going to take a break here for
the for the nine thirty news we come back. I'm
going to ask the two of you to address concerns
that each of you have just to try to get this.
The conversation has been very good, and I appreciate both
of you being gentlemanly here, which is great. Obviously there's
a lot at stake. We'll continue with our conversation. We're
(17:17):
talking about wind, offshore wind and its particular impact on
the fishing industry here in Massachusetts. It is not an
easy call to make. I'm sure we have two guests,
dustin Delano, who you just heard is the is with
the New England Fishermen Stewardship Association, and we're also being
(17:37):
joined by Grant Provost, who is with the New England
for Offshore Wind Coalition. We will have more conversation and
if you'd like to participate, the numbers are six one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty or six one seven, nine three
one ten thirty. My name's Dan Ray. This is Nightside.
I'll be back with my guests and maybe even some
(17:59):
of your phone calls after.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
This Night with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Before we get to phone calls, let me kind of
give a challenge to each of you, and that is Grant.
Why don't you explain to Dustin why his business, his livelihood,
has to stand down and allow these farms or wind farms,
(18:31):
whatever you want to call them be built. I think
that you must recognize that although you have a lot
of workers and probably you know construction people anxious to
work out there on these projects, it is going to
affect another branch of labor, and that's the fishing industry.
What would you say to him if you were sitting
down over a cup of coffee, well, for that matter
(18:52):
of beer tonight, what would you say to him grant
as well as you could.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I don't know if you know exactly what you're saying.
I mean, I reprospect that's in a lot he's He's
an awesome advocate for his organization. I've seen him over
the years, you know, grow into a really, really great leader.
I don't think I would kind of sell him on that,
you know. I mean, I share some of the same
concerns he does for people's livelihood. And you know, I
(19:21):
represent workers, and my workers stand to make a pretty
good living, and we can take some people in from
disengaged communities and a lot of people are going to
do pretty well from how I work to represent my members.
But you know, tell him I know how he should
represent his or or anything kind of in that direction.
(19:43):
I don't think I can do.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So you have no option to say to him, hey, look,
maybe this might be a career change for some of
your guys. That there's nothing that you can say to
him to even soften the impact of what this will do.
I mean, this will have a very I assume you
would admit this will have a huge impact on the
industry that he represents.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
It's going to have impact, whether it's huge or small.
I know I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I couldn't.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
I can't tell you there. I know it didn't work
very hard on a building a state of Maine to
push the area that any commercial project could be outside
of lm A one, which is a lobster management area
where a majority of fishermen work in the state of Maine,
not all of them. But I would never intend to
convents Dustin otherwise about his own industry.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Enough, okay, that's an honest answer, Dustin, I'll turn the
table on you and give you a chance to address
Grant again. You're both people who have some disparate labor concerns.
At this point, you're obviously concerned about your membership your industry.
What would you say to or can you say anything
(20:59):
to Grant Provost on the other side of the argument
that might convince him that there's other avenues that that
this fledgling industry of of of wind energy could I
could look into and to help save many of the
jobs of your members. What would you say to him?
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Sorry, I dropped off again there for a minute, wonderful
service in Maine. Could you just repeat that really quickly.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I'll try. I didn't realize you had dropped off. Okay,
you heard what Grant said to you that pretty much
there was not much he could say, and he represented
it that he respected your position. I get all of that,
and also said that he's representing certain members of people
who will benefit workers who will benefit from the construction
(21:51):
of of offshore wind projects. Conversely, your group of supporters,
your membership is going to be adversely impacted. I think
he said, you know. I asked him, and he said, well,
I don't know by how much, but obviously it be
an impact. He was pretty honest about it. What would
you say to him again, as a fellow representative of
(22:13):
families and of workers, is there any any any suggestion
you can make to him that that maybe there's a
there's an alternative course they can travel other than just
plucking these uh these wind turbines in the area that
you folks normally fish.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, so there's there's a lot there. But you know,
I will say you probably didn't expect that Grant and
I would know each other, but we have been on
opposite side of this issue for a few years, but
have been very cordial with one another and respectful of
each other. But I you know, my association represents all
different types of fishermen and so you know, when you
(22:57):
look at it as a lobsterman who only fishes from Maine,
there was some legislation that was crafted to minimize the
impact to those guys, and we were part of, you know,
pushing through, pushing that through and encouraging that to happen.
But we also represent people who fish outside of there
from other states, and people who you know, use mubile
gear and all of that, and so we we we
(23:19):
have held this strong position of opposing offshore wind because
of the severe displacement that that will lead to for
other fisheries in those regions. And aside from that, there
are we have highlighted many environmental concerns which we just
don't know enough information yet. Right, there's just been this.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
What percentage of your membership would be so adversely impacted
by this that they would lose their livelihoods?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Uh, I would have to say, you know that there's
there's less people out there, so maybe twenty five percent.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
So if you have a membership of nine hundred people,
twenty five percent of that is about two hundred and
twenty five jobs, two hundred twenty five livelihoods. Which cannot
be minimized, but it doesn't destroy the fishing industry, is
what I'm hearing you say. Am I misreading you?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
With the thing is that we just don't know. We
don't know what the environmental harms will be. I mean,
in order for these operations to exist in offshore waters,
they need to have cooling stations, They need to have
a lot of different things, which cooling stations, active heat
exchanges for the cables, and they will dump millions of
(24:40):
gallons of hot water back into the Gulf of Maine
day after day after day. And all of these types
of things are what we have raised concerns about, right
and we don't know what that will do. We just
know that, you know, certain species in the ocean don't
appreciate ninety degree water.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Okay, fair enough, Grant, Let me let me have you
if you could address those concerns. Those are some legitimate
concerns that Dustin just raised. How How has have those
addressed been addressed by offshore wind in other parts of
the country. I assume the same issues would occur.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
I think we're in a fledgling kind of industry right now,
and the only offshore wind projects are in the northeast
currently right now, the Urmans themselves are air cooled, so
less of a concern there. I think that the major
concern would be around any type of substation at sea,
possibly you know, cooling. For those not super on the
(25:43):
technical aspect, says I'm not an engineer, but yeah, well okay, so.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, and great, let me.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
I would say, you know, when these things go off shore, yeah,
you know there. I mean I would be concerned about,
you know, something being in the water for any period
of time, you know, to gross things. It creates ecosystems.
And with these uh arrays being so far offshore, different
(26:16):
adverse weather, and you know, large fished populations in a
new ecosystem could could raise a lever of a level
of danger for the people who work the waters. That
would be a concern.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I would have. Okay, am, I to understand you, you correctly,
granted you said that there's no offshore wind farms or
turbines or whatever operationally anywhere in the country that we
can we can draw history from, not off California off
(26:49):
more temperate climbings.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
No, sorry, there's not in there's not in California, And
there's Block Island Sound and they're fags six mega ones,
so they're smaller than the ones that they're doing now
for Vineyard with no sense station. So you know, Vineyard
one is really the first commercial and then Commonwealth is
or Revolution is next one of the two I can't remember,
(27:12):
but yeah, these are the very first ones to get going,
and they were the fixed modefile. We won't see floating.
I don't even think we'll see floating in the one
of the study.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Okay. And then so, so you said that Vineyard one
is the is the company that that I was trying
to get at earlier tonight? Is that is that the
company that's that's that's negotiating this with the legislature in
in Maine or wherever else or with the federal government?
Is it is the company called Vineyard one.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Uh, well, it's Vineyard one, and Vineyard one is the
fleece area they recently, I think Vineyard two they came
in the try to stay solicitation with Connecticut where island?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Okay, So so that's not the un company that that's
the name of the geographic area.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
So Vineyard one was one day with Vineyard Wind and
they are co developing it. I think it's aving Grid
was in there with Copenhagen Investment Partners and they split
that first project and then Vineyard One became its own entity,
I believe.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Okay, So now we're now we're getting down to who
owns Vineyard.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
One Vineyard Wind after Wind developers.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Okay? Is it again? The connection is not great? Are
you saying Vineyard one of Vineyard Wind? If you could
just spell it so I he can hear it? Correct
win win Okay, who's the primary owner of Vineyard Wind?
Is it a corporation? Is an LLC? I can handle it?
Is the private individuals, it's a it's a corporation.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Uh, it's a little tricky if I can just go.
I mean, I'm not fully you know there. But so
basically bo lease is an area, but they pay for
the lease area and then they put their turbans, will
say hey to construct inside of the lease area. And
then it's it's for the state of Maine. The legislature
directs the utility to precious power off them for a
(29:20):
certain amount of years. So I'm a thirty year lease
to sell power to rape painters.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Get that? No, I get that. But again, the question
that I think you're ducking on me, and I hope
that you're not ducky intentionally. Is there has to be
an individual and or corporation which which is probably privately held.
These companies are not publicly traded, correct.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Oh jeezus, I imagine some of them are in you know,
like Vineyard, I don't think is publicly traded.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
But so you can you can't gear the name of
you can't give me the name of one big investor.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
No as a developer.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
But some corporations are publicly traded, publicly owned. Others are
privately owned, Okay, And people who own private corporations of
this magnitude will stand to make an immense amount of money,
much more money than all of the workers combined. Gentlemen,
Gonna take quick break and if if someone out there
(30:34):
wants to ask a question that I haven't asked, feel
free six one seven two five six one seven nine.
We'll be back right after this.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Now back to Dan ray Mine from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
During the break, my guest uh remaining with us, Dustin Delano,
the New England Fisherman Stewardship Association. He's concerned about the
liveliheerds of Button nine hundred fishermen off the coast of
fisherman families off the coast of Maine and grant Provo
with the New England for offshore wind coalition. Vineyard one
(31:12):
is jointly owned by two companies, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners and Iberdrola,
through a subsidiary of avan Grid Renewables. Copenhagen Infrastructure is
as the world's largest dedicated fund manager within greenfield renewable
(31:37):
energy investments and a global leader in offshore wind Okay.
The company is privately held out of Copenhagen Debtmark, so
it's a private company which the shares are owned by individuals.
They're not offered to be traded publicly. They traded or
(32:00):
exchanged privately, known as over the counter. It's interesting. I mean,
there's some people here are going to make a lot
of money, and it sounds to me like most of
them are from Denmark. As a matter of fact, that
the key people, which I assume indicates ownership, Jakob Barrow Lopoulsen,
(32:21):
Christian T. Scott Bach, Torsten Luberg Schmid and Christina grumpscherp
Shansen are the key people of Copenhagen infrastructure partners. I
want to ask Grant Grant, why are they're not more
American companies involved in this since it's going to be
(32:41):
American jobs that will be lost in American waters that
will be plumbed.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Wells. Actually, the industry is a fledgeling right now. There
are American companies that are learning and they're American developers.
There's Americans working in Europe on offshore wind projects. For Dominion.
It's not Dominion, I'm sorry, it's for Demi. It was
like one of these international merchant marine companies. I basically got,
(33:14):
you know, for the Dominion project their developer now and
they've purchased some lease areas from other people. They have
a large project in Virginia area. And then even Energy,
which purchased two of the lease areas in the Gulf
of Maine, is also a US based company. However, Denmark,
(33:37):
the UK Norway they're first movers in this and they've
been working on offshore why then, they have been building
offshore wind farms in Europe for twenty years plus.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
All right, okay, well again, I thank you for your
your candor. And it's a difficult situation for the first
in Maine so let me give a final comment to Dustin. Dustin,
make the case as best you can that the area
(34:10):
that your fishermen conduct their business in needs to be protected.
And I don't know if you've gotten any support. I
understand that there was a period of time where Donald
Trump stopped some of this activity while he was president
and then President Biden. According to some of the materials
(34:33):
I'm looking at, while he was president. Well, there's an
article here which on vineyard wind which I want to
read very quickly, and that is a final environmental impact
statement was released in March of twenty twenty one. Approval
was delayed during the term of US President Donald Trump
due to concerns regarding fishing in safety. That permission was
(34:53):
fast tracked after Joe Biden took office. Final major federal
approval was granted in May of twenty twenty one. Uh, Dustin,
do you have more hope now that Donald Trump will
will resume Uh, the the the White House, return to
the White House, the that you're going to be treated better,
(35:14):
the fisherman be treated better by Donald Trump than Joe Biden.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
I mean, I think if we go directly to the issue,
a lot of us are familiar with you know, uh
uh Donald Trump's podcast with Joe Rogan where he said
that he would put a stop top for wind development.
And so I think there are a lot of fishermen
that have put a lot of hope in that, and
you know, we we hope that those promises will be
(35:41):
followed through. And if I may may just say one
more thing too, you know, we have members who fish
in those areas where Vineyard Wind is and even further
south and west of there where there's other other turbines,
and it's incredibly disheartening to them to be kicked out
of areas or have areas, you know, the bottom and
(36:03):
in areas completely altered, you know, with moving structures on
the bottom and moving boulders and just you know, the
areas that have been navigating for generations to be disrupted
and the vessels that are in there doing the work
are all foreign, are all flying foreign flags. That's incredibly disheartening.
And on one other thing, if you.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Don't mind, you got any quick here, because I'm running
out of time very quickly.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
The Gulf of Maine, these areas in the Gulf of Maine,
these leases went for fifty dollars an acre fifty dollars
an acre for the ocean that we make a living from.
One fish could be more than fifty dollars one haul
of it, and that area went for fifty bucks.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
All right, gentlemen, Dustin Delano, thank you, Grant Provost, thank you.
This is a tough set of circumstances, very important, competing interests.
I tried to get two people who could have addressed
it tonight. They both did very well representing their point
of view, and I thank them for being gentlemanly and
(37:07):
being constructive and advocates for their constituencies. Gentlemen, thank you
very much. Thank you. All right, good night. We'll be
back right after the ten o'clock news here on nights side,
and we're going to maybe just relax a little bit
and talk about how are you going to handle Thanksgiving
dinner in your family? I mean, if there are people,
(37:29):
and they probably are people in your family who voted
in the presidential election a little bit differently, how can
we both allow for conversation and make sure the conversation
stays under control. How do we strike that balance. We'll
talk about it on the other side of the tent.
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