November 28, 2024 • 42 mins
Morgan White Jr. fills in for Dan!
Continued conversation with award-winning writer, editor, and book doctor, Ed Robertson and his newest book about four classic television series that helped define the TV landscape as we know it today; The Untouchables, Run for Your Life, The Magician and Harry O.
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio and listen to NightSide with Dan Rea Weeknights From 8PM-12AM!
Continued conversation with award-winning writer, editor, and book doctor, Ed Robertson and his newest book about four classic television series that helped define the TV landscape as we know it today; The Untouchables, Run for Your Life, The Magician and Harry O.
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio and listen to NightSide with Dan Rea Weeknights From 8PM-12AM!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
The final hour of night Side is here six minutes
into itself. I am Morgan White Junior. The announcer just
told you that my guest, we're having fun here. They've
let the inmates run the asylum. Is this Arkham? I
hear there are a lot of funny going on going
(00:29):
on at Arkham. And my guest is mister Ed Robertson.
I've had him on many a time. He is a
very prolific gentleman. Has written a great number of books
around television programs of the past five decades. And we
(00:49):
are talking about this book Manufaction, focusing on these four
TV series The Magician, HARRYO, The Untouchables and Run for
Your Life, and within those shows because of well known
producers and actors who've been in multiple series, other shows
(01:10):
have been mentioned. So if there's something about one of
the easily dozen of more shows you've heard us talk about,
call in like this. Next lady has Allison welcome aboard,
hope you Thanksgiving with well?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Oh, then I dropped the phone. Hello, I know I
just called it, but nobodys calling you, and you know
I love this sort of thing. I have your I
have your Terry Mason books, and that's really it's really amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah. I wish I we somebody to do a book
about the Untouchables. I wanted to talk a bit about that.
But I know this.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Book, this book covers the Untouchables.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Okay, is it like a comprehensive thing or just overviewer,
because I wish I had an episode guys.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
But I mean I found an episode guy in here
for the original series and this series that came back
just for two years.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I didn't even know there was a nineties one. Yeah, no,
I mean I just actually, about three months ago I
watched I watched the entire series of Untouchables. Again. This
is what I do. I live in the past and
then I'm only.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
You will you will love this book, Alison.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Okay, I'm living in the past because I'm living in
I'm watching a show from the nineteen fifty is about
the nineteen thirty so that's like a double whammy or something.
But no, but I mean some of the villains and
things are on now. Of course mister Gordon was always
good with Gordon, Yes, but they're just I just watched some,
you know, some of them with kacky. Just show out
a few and you'll probably know, right, because usually I
geek out about this thing and Morgan catches a lot
(02:38):
of it. But it's hardly a bit I can talk
to you about these things. There are some amazing episodes.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
This is Bizarrow rather Allison, let me tell it something, Okay.
Allison tries to get as many words in as she can.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
She does a very good job of it.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
And I just want you to know you have to
learn to speak. Alison.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
You were forty five RPMs and everybody else is thirty three,
and I think quite if you were sixteen, but let's
not go into that.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I would say you're going at seventy eight.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
But okay, it's just the way I am, especially when
I get into things i'm really interested in. It's just
well anyway.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So I was thinking that, you know, like some stories
episodes like the Lily Dallas story, I can't remember who
the actress was now, but whoever was was so fierce
in that. Do you remember who the actress was in
the Lily Dallas story?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
For some reason, I want to say Barbara Stanwick, but
I'm no, it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
No, No, no, no, I was trying to look it
up on the DVD, but I didn't have time. But anyway,
it was she was in the last season where it
got kind of whimpy. And it's so weird how they were,
you know, how they were criticizing how violent it was,
even though you almost never saw blood, you know, and it.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Was all blacks, I know. And in fact, Walter Grahman,
who was one of the great directors of the Golden Age,
he he's by the way. June Benson, Norma Crane were
the guest stars in the Little in the Lily Dallas story,
as well as Barbara Parkins and Debt and the Great
Dad's Greer and Larry Parks and Larry Parks who played
(04:09):
al Jos and Joel You were.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Kind of heartbreaking because he loved the Lily Dallas the character,
and then he was really really cool.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
But one of the great things about the Untouchables is
because they had to they had to do things within
standards of nineteen sixty nineteen sixty one. They they would
some of the gruesome violence that the that Bruce Gordon
would do, they would do off camera and and and
(04:37):
so you would play off the reaction of the actors
witnessing the gruesome murder, and so as the viewer that
left that left it to the viewer's imaginations to what
they saw. It was far more effective than seeing all
the blood and gore.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Oh sometimes they would get counted the Tommy gun, so
they really would, even though you were absolutely absolutely, like
Philip pie in one of the early episodes, got really
cut down that way. But I just I want to
ask you of it. A couple more weird episodes of it.
They were crazy. There's one called Strangleholds with Ricardo Montleban
and two ubiquitous character acts from the time, Philip Pine
and Kevin Hagen and the two skip man or they
(05:15):
were calling forces. The two enforces in that are obviously
in love. Do you know that episode? It's so bizarre. No,
they're they're completely it's in clearly a gay episode of
The Untouchables in about nineteen.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Sixty, very near episode time.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Very amazing episode. I mean, nothing's ever said latently, but
it's amazing. And my favorite episode actually is because I
always liked flooky stuff. So I'm going back a bit
farther and my favorite episode was the The Underground Court
with Joan Bondell, which was in Richard Devon. It was
essentially oursonnicon o'lace meets meets the Untouchables.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
It was so sy.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I just love that episode.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Well. And as we said before being Touchables, there was
another example of an anthology show with one or two
regular characters. Robert Stack was Robert Stack and whoever was
the whoever played the because they changed the actors who
played the supporting on touching most from year to year.
But Robert Stack, as this was the constant. But you
(06:14):
would have all these great guest stars like Rip Torn
and Neamyah purs Off and he was everywhere Montgomery and
and and and and all of that, and Robert Stack
was the constant. So there was It was a great
anthology show you would love. We go into it and
Men of Action, which you will like. Al I believe,
so I.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Said to another episode, Now, what's that one called on?
It was? But Elizabeth Montgomery is involved with David White
in that.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yes, I mean right, yes, I'm I'm I'm I'm going
off memory. But she got she got an Emmy nomination
for it. Okay, she got an Emmy nomination for it.
And I will probably remember it when we go to
break in two seconds, but I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
And then the two part early on about the you know,
Zangara attempting to kill Roosevelt.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
The Rusty Heller story, the.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Rusty Heller story, great episode, and that the one they
called The Unheared Assassin, the two parter where it's Sangara.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Because because who ever wound up Alison for tonight the
moon spring is still unfurrowed.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Okay, but no, but come on, the Unheared assass And
it was a great two parter because it really in
the early days they wove in more of the real history,
and later on they had it, you know, they came
up with original stories because they'd run out of a
lot of it. But Joe Mantell and that is Don Gara,
I thought was amazing and uh, another ubiquitous character actor,
you know, two parter because he was gonna tried to
kill Roosevelt and he ended up killing Anton Stermax, the
(07:43):
mayor of Chicago instead. Right, so I just still don't
know them anyway. But hey, no, but I could do
this you're talking about You talked to him your guests
all the time, and boy, I could do this all
the time too. You know some weird calling line where
you call in and just talk about all TV shows
all the time.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I guess you as a friend of mine and said, Allison,
you have good knowledge. You have you have very good
knowledge about the Untouchables. You will love manufaction.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Okay, thanks so much, thank you. Good to talk to you.
I do you like to get a more word in
the wife Morgan.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I'm just gonna say it's time for a break.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Allison, call be seeing you, okay, And that's from the prisoner.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Be Seen Patrick. We're going see.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
We could do this forever. You're lucky. I don't live
out there. I'd be knocking on your front door all
the time. Six four ten thirty or eight eight eight
nine two nine ten thirty. You can do what Glenn did,
what Allison has done, and many others all night long.
Give us a call. We have touched upon so many performers,
(08:45):
actors whose names you know may not remember, and at
least a dozen different classic TV series. The main four
of The Magician, HARRYO, The Untouchables, and Run for Your
Life are in this book Minivac, written by Ed Robertson.
And go buy the book, buy it for a friend
or a relative that way, give it to him for
(09:08):
a gift and borrow it back after Christmas is over. Absolutely,
time and temperature eleven fifteen forty two degrees.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It's Morgan. I'm here tomorrow night as well. I will
have Bob and Donna Jenks will be speaking with them
about catering and maybe after today. With all the relative
relatives coming to your house and dishes and footmarks on
the rug, you might want to have someone someone do
(09:44):
it for you so you don't have to lift the finger.
Bill and Bo Winnaker they will be here, and Bill
called in earlier tonight, and my buddy Cleo Campbell will
be here right now. I've got Ed Robertson and we've
got Brian and Dennis as our next caller. Brian, Happy Thanksgiving,
(10:08):
Welcome aboard.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Hey, how you guys doing.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
We're just crazy?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Hey, I got a tri your questions for you? I
guess there does he know the great act of Brian McKenzie.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Name rings Bell, Well that's my name.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
I'm just joking with.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You, guys.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Oh there you go.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Okay, I'm having a great time, Morgan, You've got a
great guest, and I'm going to continue listening. I just
thought I hit around and pull that out there.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Well, thank you for that. Okay, by wait wait Brian,
before you go, Glen, do you remember any of these
four TV series Harry O, the Magician, Run for Your Life,
or The Untouchables, The Untouchables? What about the Untouchables comes
to mind?
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Well, I'm sixty seven on my mind not as good
as it used to be, but I just remember the
name of the program, you know, and me and my
family probably watched it a many times. But now you
got me.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Do you know who the executive producer of that show was?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Don't tell me, Brian McKenzie, no.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
No, no, but I am going to tell you a
name you should know, Dissey earn Is.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Oh wow, I love Lucy Sho.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So tell you what. You keep listening because I'm going
to have Ed go into a story that a lot
of people know of but necessarily don't know the correct story.
So thank you for your call.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
And Morgan, yes, real quick, if I may say, you
know how you know sometimes I'll go to a bar
and the kids would be talking about college, you know. Okay,
so I said to them. There were three of them,
two guys and a girl. I said, I went to
abbed And five minutes later the girl weaned over and said, too,
(12:05):
what you made you in? And I said, well, I
didn't makee I did go to hobbit. I walked in
the front, towing off the back.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Oh yeah, let's all play rim shop, all right.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Try to be all tip you wators on the way out.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
How about that? Could you get into the story about
how the real life dieern Is Junior and the real
life son of al Capone Or at the same bastion
of learning and one was talking to the other. They
(12:43):
knew each other, and al Capone Junior made a request
of his friend don Is Jor.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Yes, he told Desi not to not to do the
show because she He said, if you do the show,
it will come back to bite you, and uh, some
unsavory people may do you harm and I won't be
able to do anything to help you. And DESI thought
(13:16):
about it, but he figured. But but he you know,
he he had he had a very viable property. And
this was around the time that Elliott Nessa's book with
Oscar Frehley had hit the market and did very very well,
was the best seller, and that led to CBS developing
(13:42):
it for the Desilu Playhouse. And Desi figured, Desi was
a very very shrewd man, as you will know, Morgan,
and Desi figured, if I don't do this, somebody else will.
And uh, it's thought that he didn't take the threat seriously,
(14:04):
but he said, let's let's let's worry about what's in
front of me and make the best show that I can.
And he did. And Desi lived a good twenty years
after after the a good twenty five years after he
did The Untouchable.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So some people may remember Desi looking old and frail
when he was doing the publicity tour for my book,
had Piography.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
A book, a book, a book, which I think is
one of the coolest titles ever. It's just a book,
a book, a book, but it is.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But he looks so.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Frail, yeah, yeah, well, you know, he he he was
one of those you know, two or three pack that
pack of day smokers, right, and that makes its toll,
you know. And but he he we may have mentioned
this before on the air, but he was the one.
(15:14):
He was the one who he did not originate the
idea of filming three cameras, but he made it into
an art form and he made and basically by filming
I Love Lucy with three cameras on film. He he
had the foresight to know that if you if you
(15:36):
do it on film versus videotaper kinescope, doing it on film,
you have a permanent record. And it made possible for
rebroadcasts at the time when nobody thought nobody even thought
of rebroadcasting anything, because television was considered disposable, right, But
but he not only made the idea of the repeat,
(15:59):
the summer repeat and the syndicated you know, a repeat
UH possible, But because he owned the films along with
CPS Lucy you know, set themselves up pretty good.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And you don't think of this as in the irony.
But one of the last Desilu filmed shows, of which
there were so many was Star.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Trek, was Star Trek and Mannix and A Mission Impossible,
all of which premiered within a year of each other.
And uh and at the time uh Desi had stepped down,
but Lucy was running the studio in addition to starring
(16:54):
on The Lucy Show at the time, and I think
she was also doing her radio show for CBS Radio
at the time. So and uh, I believe she was
talking about Star Uh this is this pertains the Star
Trek in particular, but uh, it was she was the
(17:19):
one who basically gave the green light to Star Trek okay,
and and she saw something in that show that nobody
else did. And without her stamp of approval, there would
be no Captain Kirk, there would be no Mistress Bock,
there would be no franchise, there would be no Star
(17:42):
Trek franchise in all the various you know, Star Trek
movies and Star Trek spin offs and you know, sixty
years of Star Trek merchandise that all began with Lucille
Ball and Desilu Productions before they sold it to Mara Mountain.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
The funny thing about Gene Roddenberry, he was trying to
who get the concept that a Western TV series that
was the number one show in those years late fifties
was doing and doing quite well.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Yeah, yeah, he pitched it up wagon Trained to the Stars.
That's right, that's right. And uh and so but so
so it like Lucy, you know, Lucy was not as Lucy,
by her own admission, was not as visionary as DESI was.
(18:34):
But if you if you sat down and you explain
how something would I mean like for example, I mean,
uh what, she was smart enough to surround herself with
you great writers like Madeline Pugh and Bob Carroll who
you know, they say, Okay, Lucy's going to Lucy's gonna
(18:57):
stomp greats with with with the woman in this, ain't that?
And Lucy would say, why is that funny? And then
Carol and Davis would sit would would explain it to
her so to speak, and they would they would fill
in all that, They would give her a picture of
what they wanted her to do and want and then
lose and then got it. And then she you know,
(19:19):
from there she took all her skills as a comedian
and made it the magic you know, film moment that
we all know. So she was visionary in that in
that respect. But with regard to Star Trek and Mission
Impossible and Mannix, you know, she saw the potential on
(19:39):
all three of those shows and they went on to
be three of the biggest Well, Mission Impossible and Mandis
were two of the biggest hits in the nineteen sixties.
Star Trek, you know, was not a gratings hit at
the time, but it blew up in in syndication.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
More money than every other Desilu production port side by
side by, side by side times Tan, absolutely times Tan.
And like you mentioned the spin offs, I mean Voyager,
the separate shows of the new one below Decks. I
(20:19):
mean I could go on.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Deep Space nine with Avery Brooks also known as Hawk
from Spencer of Higher Spencer for Hire, and you almost were.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Hawked, you know, I told you that story you did.
Oh my goodness, all right, let me let me look
at the clock. I can tell this in thirty five
minutes seconds. I mean I worked for an agency that
was situated in the Saltensas building right next to the
(20:52):
Massachusetts Film Borough Bureau, and I knew several people. I
had left the agency for another job for the city
as a matter of fact, and they were looking for
a black actor who had a decent voice and was
rather large personally. I think I'm diminutive, but I They
(21:16):
tried to get me over the weekend. By the time
the producers get in touch with me, they had already
found Avery brook Brooks. They had hired an actor, but
another role came up and he took that other role,
and they were going to begin shooting later on that week,
so it's kind of imperative to get somebody quick. Had
(21:38):
I gotten the message on that Friday, since there was
time ticking away, I think I would have gotten.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
The role, and you you would have been the one
who said Spencer.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
No, No, no, Spence. See the difference.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
See the difference.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Let me take my break the time. If you're one,
look all in six, one, seven, two, five, four, ten
thirty or eight eight, eight, nine, two, nine, ten thirty
to call. We have about thirty minutes a show to
go here on night Side, eleven thirty at night. Temperature
is still forty two degrees.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I'm gonna tell you right now. Yeah, yeah, Morgan right
Junior filling in for Dan Ray Nightside. Yes, I'm going
to have Ed Robertson back with me in January. You know,
I usually skip a month when I have a guest,
and we'll promote men of Action again, just so I
(22:45):
can talk to Ed and have fun. That's all I
care about is having fun on radio, and he is
a fun guest. See what you've done to me? Ed.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
I appreciate that very much, Morgan.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And we've spoken about all the shows. I don't think
we've spoken enough about the magician. So I'm going to
kind of point a finger at the magician.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
All magic you're about to see is perform without trick photography.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And that that was important because he Bill Bixby learned
from the great Mark Wilson how to seemingly make cards appear.
You hold your hands straight out and you kind of
curl your fingers and puff an ason and king appear.
(23:38):
How did that happen? Ooh, it is magic. No, it's
pressed the digitation, doing something manipulation with your hands that
if you could see behind the magician's hand, you would
know what two cards were coming up. But you told
me a story, and I'm just gonna set you up
(24:00):
so you can take a golf club and hit the
ball three hundred yards. That had the Magician stayed on
it did one season. Had it stayed through a second season,
what was in store for Bill Bixby with the magician?
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Mark Wilson, who was the he was the technical consultant
on the show, and he worked with the showrunner and
he was very close to Bixby. During the time The
Magician was in production, there were plans for a big
multi city tour where Bill Bixby would perform magic in
(24:46):
various venues including Las Vegas. I believe in promotion for
what was anticipated to be the second season of The Magician. Now,
The Magician had a very it had a very interesting
broadcast history that it.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
Was.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
It went to series in the spring of seventy three,
around the time a writers guild strike that shut down
production and curtailed production of a lot of news series
at the time, including The Magician. And so by the
time the strike was settled, the show was sort of
(25:25):
in a chaotic behind the eight ball a situation. But
and they changed formats, and they changed producers at least
three times in the course of that one season. But
and they moved it to from Tuesday nights to Monday nights,
where it still faced It's still faced strong opposition against
(25:49):
Gunsmoke and the Rookies, but apparently it did well enough
to be it was considered a bubble show, which was
its numbers are well enough that depending on how the
pendulum swings, it may see a second season, and so
by when it finished original twenty two episode season run,
(26:13):
it looked like it was in the running for a
second season, and so Wilson and Bixby and the people
behind the scenes they put together this grand tour, and
just before Bixby hit the road, NBC announced that they
decided not to renew the show. And they were never
clear why they didn't renew the show. They told Wilson
(26:37):
and had to do with you weren't reaching the right demographics,
you weren't reaching the right audience. And Wilson said, well,
what exactly are you talking about? And the network was
kind of vague and never gave them a straight answer,
and that happens sometimes. It's just Harry OH is not
(26:58):
renewed for a third because the people who were behind
the show left the network and Fred Silverman took over.
And Fred Silverman had an ax to grind I understand
against David Jansen because Jansen did a show for CBS
when Silverman was in charge of CBS and seventy one
(27:21):
called O'Hara Us Treasury, which did not do well, and
Silverman remembered that. And so when Silverman took over ABC
and HARRYO was on the bubble. I have been told
on very good authority that Silverman canceled Harry O out of.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Spite because my memories of Harry oh two words, it worked. Yeah,
Henry Darrow leaving. I think he left like the first
half of the first year.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
He left around the time they moved production from San
Diego to to Los Angeles. And it would not have
it would not have been in the world television. It
would have made as much sense as than anything else
to have Henry to have Manny Quillen transferred to UH
(28:19):
Los Angeles around the same time that Harry O moved
to Los Angeles. But when they we tooled the show,
Jerry Thorpe, the show runner, felt that they needed a
little They needed an actor who provided more of a
contrast to David Jansen. You know, Darrow was a good actor,
(28:41):
but Darrow was kind of low key. David Jameson was
low key. They felt they needed someone who would be
a counterpuncher, counterpuncher, who would was who would be a
cool contrast David Jansen. And that was Anthony Zerby And
and the show really took off and found its footing.
(29:03):
And even though it went even though a lot of
the interesting trappings of the first season went by the
wayside when it moved to Los Angeles. The fact that
this marvelous, you know, relationship between Harry and Lieutenant Trench,
this symbiotic relationship between two characters who were from different
(29:27):
worlds and yet they had a lot in common. They
respected each other. And the verbal the verbal sword play,
the verbal wordplay, if I, if I may be redundant
between Jensen and and and Anthony Zerby. That was the
fun part of the.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Show and that's why I watched it. Yeah, it's funny
because the private eye detective character on TV always need
like Stu Bailey needed Detective Quinlan, like Magnum needed Tanaka.
You had to have that rather caustic police person who
(30:09):
had to follow the book, who couldn't take the liberties
of a detective. Meanwhile, detectives are breaking all kinds of
rules left, right and center. But that detective really loved
the police detective, loved the detective like a brother.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Yeah, I mean a colleague of mine described the relationship
between Harry and Lieutenant Trench as frenemies.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
You know, that's a twenty first century title, that's.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Very much a twenty first century word. But but you know,
the Trench respected Harry's independence. He respected Harry's style, even
though harry style drove him up the walls, you know,
nine times out of ten. Because Trench was, you know,
(31:03):
by the book, because he had to be he had
a department to run, he had rules to follow, and
and and so forth. He envied Harry's independence. There's a
great scene in the episode Anatomy of a Frame, which
is the first episode of the second season, where Harry
helps f frame is Uh. Trench is framed for a
(31:27):
for a murder which he didn't commit. He comes to
Harry for help and we get to learn a little
bit about Trench's backstory in that in that episode and
Uh and and he basically and Trench says, you know,
I I admire you. I admire your independence, even though
(31:50):
I can't be you. I can't I can't live like you,
you know, I can't do it like you. But it's
it's a wonderful episode. And there are many moments like
that in the Anthony's there are so many.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
For an example, Dan Tanner and Dave Nelson played by.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Greg Morris, Greg Morris and.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Spencer Spencer Hire and Lieutenant Quirk Richard.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Uh play Great Richard Yes all of.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Those characterizations are pretty much the same. The cop is
locked into rules and laws that he cannot step around,
while the private detectives steps all over those rules and laws.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And the key to making a successful show is to
fin to is to find enough, you know, uh, enough
enough angles, enough quirks to each character to make them
different enough. And sometimes it has to do with the casting,
you know, the casting of the actor. What the actor
brings the character they you know, they'll they'll flesh it
(32:57):
out and they'll bring enough with their own personality. And
if you have an actor like Robert Urich or Richard
Jacole who worked well with each other, or David Janssen
and Henry Daro or James Gardner and James Louisi and
Rockford Files, you know, that's where the real magic of
that relationship comes.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Let me take my last break. I have a caller,
and John in North Carolina will get to you after
a few commercials. I promise time and temperature eleven forty
five forty two degrees.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Now back to Dan Way live from the Window World,
Nice Sight Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Roughly ten minutes of show to go, John in North Carolina,
You've waited long enough. Here's your chance to speak with
Ed Robertson. Hi.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
Ed, I'm Morgan.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Hello.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Hi.
Speaker 6 (33:54):
I thought it was interesting when I heard you speaking
about Roy Huggins, because I just recently read a detective
novel by him. It was it was called The Double Take.
It was from nineteen forty six, if.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
I remember correctly, that was that was the That was
the novella that he introduced Stu Bailey exactly.
Speaker 6 (34:17):
That's that was something I was going to mention that.
And it's from nineteen forty six, so I guess about
ten years before seventy seven Sunset Strip. But I thought
it was very good. It was kind of a Raymond
Chandler esque type mystery.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Well, Roy, that's that's That's how Roy started his career.
He started his career as a novelist into Chandler vein
and he his publisher at the time was a man
named Howard Brown. He published several of his novellas, and
(34:54):
then one thing led to another and Roy saw the
future in a storytelling in television and when about fast
forward about ten years in the early nineteen fifties, when
Roy established himself as a various as one of the
top producers in television with Warner Brothers. He remembered his
(35:18):
friend Howard Brown when Howard Brown decided to break into television,
and Howard wrote for Roy not only a Warner Brothers
but also a Universal. So it's all I mean, it's
all kind of circular.
Speaker 6 (35:34):
Well, did Roy then leave Warner Brothers and become an
independent producer?
Speaker 4 (35:42):
No, he left Warner Brothers in fifty nine sixty. He
was a little burned out because and for reasons that
I explained in detail in Maverick Legend of the West,
my book on the Map show. He was feeling he
(36:03):
was responsible for like seventy percent of Warner Brothers prime
time shows on ABC. But because of the way Warner
Brothers ran his television apartment in the early going, they
refuse to give an independent writer created by a credit
(36:25):
which gave him or her a share of the pie,
you know, because Warner Brothers was very strident. You know,
we will only develop movies or properties we own. We
will only develop those for television. We will not pay
an independent writer, We will not pay a producer or
created by credit. And you know, Roy was working very
(36:49):
hard and he was you know, you know, cult forty
five seventy seven sunset strip. You know, most all those
successful Warner Brothers shows at the time, he wasn't. I
mean they all, they all tied back to him, you know,
(37:10):
at one point. And so he decided to leave the studio.
And and and as we mentioned in our first hour,
he was a little down on television to begin with.
He left the industry and was going to get his
h He was going to get his doctorate and teach
when in sixty three, sixty two, sixty three Universal called him. Uh,
(37:37):
they need they had they had the Virginian, which they bought,
but they needed They felt they needed a new producer,
and so they made Roy an offer he couldn't refuse.
And so he went back into television and stayed with
the Universal for almost twenty years.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Wow, well you mentioned warners. Now I think what I
read when Jack Warner set up that TV division, did
he not expect it to be very much? He just
did it. What did he put his son in charge
of it?
Speaker 4 (38:10):
He did his son in law, if I remember correctly,
William Peatwoor, and.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
He did it.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Jack Warner did it reluctantly. He did it because all
the other studios were leaving their mark were entering television.
Warners was at the time, Warners was still very famous.
You know when he made movies, when Warner Brothers made movies,
you know, we're not going to portray a living room
(38:42):
scene with the television in it. Because he saw television
as the enemy. And so when they finally did enter television,
as we said, they took a very narrow approach to it,
and that ended up. I mean, it paid off initially
in the short term because they made a deal with
ABC and they provided a lot of programming for ABC,
(39:05):
but it hurt them within ten years because they were
losing a lot of talent.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Then, not only did they treat their they worked there,
they overworked their writers, and they didn't they they didn't
let them share in the pie, so to speak. But
they signed their actors to seven year contracts, they paid
them next to nothing, and then they but they exploited
them until James Garner famously stood up to them and said,
(39:33):
I ain't going to do this anymore, and he took
them to court and he beat them in court, and
the Warner Brothers realized, Okay, we have to change the
way we do this. Otherwise we're going to lose other
James Garner's down the Road.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
It was, for an example, Hawaiian and I was surfside
six not in not in Honolulu, but in.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Miami, and both Hawaiian and I and serve side six
for variations of seventy seven sunset strip, which was the
which which originated with Roy Huggins. And so that that's
why Roy felt a little That's why Roy felt a
little put upon it, as he put it himself, because
(40:18):
there were three shows that started with him, and yet
the studio was making money off of off of those
off of those shows, but they wouldn't recognize him.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
And John, I gotta let you go because I'm almost
out of time and I want to say a proper
goodbye to Ed. So John, thank you for your.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Call, Thank you for calling.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
All right, and I got to do this again with you.
I'll call you and set up something in January.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Absolutely is always a pleasure to talk to you and
your audience, Morgan, and I hope some of your listeners
will pick up a copy of Minute Action available Amazon
dot com. If you love classic television, if you love
the history of television, it's it's a great gift idea.
You really like this book.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Riverboat Ring your Bell Taillywell Anna Belle Luck is a
lady that he loves the best. And I'm going to
tell you something I get a minute before I have
to sign off. Nancy, who's sitting next to me. She
got all the lyrics from Brett Maverick and framed them
(41:26):
with a royal flesh hand in the middle. That's what
a partner is supposed to do. Absolutely, And on that note,
I thank you enjoying the rest of your holiday weekend
and we'll talk again.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Happy you take care.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And by the way, Dan, you did a good job tonight.
Thank you. And Nancy sitting next to me, and Gray
on the floor on the rug. Thank you for all
of you who listened, whether you called or not. I
appreciate the fact that you made Nightside your choice for
this Thanksgiving evening, and now that it has become time
(42:09):
to say it. Eleven fifty eight by Boston, forty two
degrees
It's Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
The final hour of night Side is here six minutes
into itself. I am Morgan White Junior. The announcer just
told you that my guest, we're having fun here. They've
let the inmates run the asylum. Is this Arkham? I
hear there are a lot of funny going on going
(00:29):
on at Arkham. And my guest is mister Ed Robertson.
I've had him on many a time. He is a
very prolific gentleman. Has written a great number of books
around television programs of the past five decades. And we
(00:49):
are talking about this book Manufaction, focusing on these four
TV series The Magician, HARRYO, The Untouchables and Run for
Your Life, and within those shows because of well known
producers and actors who've been in multiple series, other shows
(01:10):
have been mentioned. So if there's something about one of
the easily dozen of more shows you've heard us talk about,
call in like this. Next lady has Allison welcome aboard,
hope you Thanksgiving with well?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Oh, then I dropped the phone. Hello, I know I
just called it, but nobodys calling you, and you know
I love this sort of thing. I have your I
have your Terry Mason books, and that's really it's really amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah. I wish I we somebody to do a book
about the Untouchables. I wanted to talk a bit about that.
But I know this.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Book, this book covers the Untouchables.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Okay, is it like a comprehensive thing or just overviewer,
because I wish I had an episode guys.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
But I mean I found an episode guy in here
for the original series and this series that came back
just for two years.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I didn't even know there was a nineties one. Yeah, no,
I mean I just actually, about three months ago I
watched I watched the entire series of Untouchables. Again. This
is what I do. I live in the past and
then I'm only.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
You will you will love this book, Alison.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Okay, I'm living in the past because I'm living in
I'm watching a show from the nineteen fifty is about
the nineteen thirty so that's like a double whammy or something.
But no, but I mean some of the villains and
things are on now. Of course mister Gordon was always
good with Gordon, Yes, but they're just I just watched some,
you know, some of them with kacky. Just show out
a few and you'll probably know, right, because usually I
geek out about this thing and Morgan catches a lot
(02:38):
of it. But it's hardly a bit I can talk
to you about these things. There are some amazing episodes.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
This is Bizarrow rather Allison, let me tell it something, Okay.
Allison tries to get as many words in as she can.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
She does a very good job of it.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
And I just want you to know you have to
learn to speak. Alison.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
You were forty five RPMs and everybody else is thirty three,
and I think quite if you were sixteen, but let's
not go into that.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I would say you're going at seventy eight.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
But okay, it's just the way I am, especially when
I get into things i'm really interested in. It's just
well anyway.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So I was thinking that, you know, like some stories
episodes like the Lily Dallas story, I can't remember who
the actress was now, but whoever was was so fierce
in that. Do you remember who the actress was in
the Lily Dallas story?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
For some reason, I want to say Barbara Stanwick, but
I'm no, it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
No, No, no, no, I was trying to look it
up on the DVD, but I didn't have time. But anyway,
it was she was in the last season where it
got kind of whimpy. And it's so weird how they were,
you know, how they were criticizing how violent it was,
even though you almost never saw blood, you know, and it.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Was all blacks, I know. And in fact, Walter Grahman,
who was one of the great directors of the Golden Age,
he he's by the way. June Benson, Norma Crane were
the guest stars in the Little in the Lily Dallas story,
as well as Barbara Parkins and Debt and the Great
Dad's Greer and Larry Parks and Larry Parks who played
(04:09):
al Jos and Joel You were.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Kind of heartbreaking because he loved the Lily Dallas the character,
and then he was really really cool.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
But one of the great things about the Untouchables is
because they had to they had to do things within
standards of nineteen sixty nineteen sixty one. They they would
some of the gruesome violence that the that Bruce Gordon
would do, they would do off camera and and and
(04:37):
so you would play off the reaction of the actors
witnessing the gruesome murder, and so as the viewer that
left that left it to the viewer's imaginations to what
they saw. It was far more effective than seeing all
the blood and gore.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Oh sometimes they would get counted the Tommy gun, so
they really would, even though you were absolutely absolutely, like
Philip pie in one of the early episodes, got really
cut down that way. But I just I want to
ask you of it. A couple more weird episodes of it.
They were crazy. There's one called Strangleholds with Ricardo Montleban
and two ubiquitous character acts from the time, Philip Pine
and Kevin Hagen and the two skip man or they
(05:15):
were calling forces. The two enforces in that are obviously
in love. Do you know that episode? It's so bizarre. No,
they're they're completely it's in clearly a gay episode of
The Untouchables in about nineteen.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Sixty, very near episode time.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Very amazing episode. I mean, nothing's ever said latently, but
it's amazing. And my favorite episode actually is because I
always liked flooky stuff. So I'm going back a bit
farther and my favorite episode was the The Underground Court
with Joan Bondell, which was in Richard Devon. It was
essentially oursonnicon o'lace meets meets the Untouchables.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
It was so sy.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I just love that episode.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Well. And as we said before being Touchables, there was
another example of an anthology show with one or two
regular characters. Robert Stack was Robert Stack and whoever was
the whoever played the because they changed the actors who
played the supporting on touching most from year to year.
But Robert Stack, as this was the constant. But you
(06:14):
would have all these great guest stars like Rip Torn
and Neamyah purs Off and he was everywhere Montgomery and
and and and and all of that, and Robert Stack
was the constant. So there was It was a great
anthology show you would love. We go into it and
Men of Action, which you will like. Al I believe,
so I.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Said to another episode, Now, what's that one called on?
It was? But Elizabeth Montgomery is involved with David White
in that.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yes, I mean right, yes, I'm I'm I'm I'm going
off memory. But she got she got an Emmy nomination
for it. Okay, she got an Emmy nomination for it.
And I will probably remember it when we go to
break in two seconds, but I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
And then the two part early on about the you know,
Zangara attempting to kill Roosevelt.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
The Rusty Heller story, the.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Rusty Heller story, great episode, and that the one they
called The Unheared Assassin, the two parter where it's Sangara.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Because because who ever wound up Alison for tonight the
moon spring is still unfurrowed.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Okay, but no, but come on, the Unheared assass And
it was a great two parter because it really in
the early days they wove in more of the real history,
and later on they had it, you know, they came
up with original stories because they'd run out of a
lot of it. But Joe Mantell and that is Don Gara,
I thought was amazing and uh, another ubiquitous character actor,
you know, two parter because he was gonna tried to
kill Roosevelt and he ended up killing Anton Stermax, the
(07:43):
mayor of Chicago instead. Right, so I just still don't
know them anyway. But hey, no, but I could do
this you're talking about You talked to him your guests
all the time, and boy, I could do this all
the time too. You know some weird calling line where
you call in and just talk about all TV shows
all the time.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
I guess you as a friend of mine and said, Allison,
you have good knowledge. You have you have very good
knowledge about the Untouchables. You will love manufaction.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Okay, thanks so much, thank you. Good to talk to you.
I do you like to get a more word in
the wife Morgan.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I'm just gonna say it's time for a break.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Allison, call be seeing you, okay, And that's from the prisoner.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Be Seen Patrick. We're going see.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
We could do this forever. You're lucky. I don't live
out there. I'd be knocking on your front door all
the time. Six four ten thirty or eight eight eight
nine two nine ten thirty. You can do what Glenn did,
what Allison has done, and many others all night long.
Give us a call. We have touched upon so many performers,
(08:45):
actors whose names you know may not remember, and at
least a dozen different classic TV series. The main four
of The Magician, HARRYO, The Untouchables, and Run for Your
Life are in this book Minivac, written by Ed Robertson.
And go buy the book, buy it for a friend
or a relative that way, give it to him for
(09:08):
a gift and borrow it back after Christmas is over. Absolutely,
time and temperature eleven fifteen forty two degrees.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It's Morgan. I'm here tomorrow night as well. I will
have Bob and Donna Jenks will be speaking with them
about catering and maybe after today. With all the relative
relatives coming to your house and dishes and footmarks on
the rug, you might want to have someone someone do
(09:44):
it for you so you don't have to lift the finger.
Bill and Bo Winnaker they will be here, and Bill
called in earlier tonight, and my buddy Cleo Campbell will
be here right now. I've got Ed Robertson and we've
got Brian and Dennis as our next caller. Brian, Happy Thanksgiving,
(10:08):
Welcome aboard.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Hey, how you guys doing.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
We're just crazy?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Hey, I got a tri your questions for you? I
guess there does he know the great act of Brian McKenzie.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Name rings Bell, Well that's my name.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
I'm just joking with.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You, guys.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Oh there you go.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Okay, I'm having a great time, Morgan, You've got a
great guest, and I'm going to continue listening. I just
thought I hit around and pull that out there.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Well, thank you for that. Okay, by wait wait Brian,
before you go, Glen, do you remember any of these
four TV series Harry O, the Magician, Run for Your Life,
or The Untouchables, The Untouchables? What about the Untouchables comes
to mind?
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Well, I'm sixty seven on my mind not as good
as it used to be, but I just remember the
name of the program, you know, and me and my
family probably watched it a many times. But now you
got me.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Do you know who the executive producer of that show was?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Don't tell me, Brian McKenzie, no.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
No, no, but I am going to tell you a
name you should know, Dissey earn Is.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Oh wow, I love Lucy Sho.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So tell you what. You keep listening because I'm going
to have Ed go into a story that a lot
of people know of but necessarily don't know the correct story.
So thank you for your call.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
And Morgan, yes, real quick, if I may say, you
know how you know sometimes I'll go to a bar
and the kids would be talking about college, you know. Okay,
so I said to them. There were three of them,
two guys and a girl. I said, I went to
abbed And five minutes later the girl weaned over and said, too,
(12:05):
what you made you in? And I said, well, I
didn't makee I did go to hobbit. I walked in
the front, towing off the back.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Oh yeah, let's all play rim shop, all right.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Try to be all tip you wators on the way out.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
How about that? Could you get into the story about
how the real life dieern Is Junior and the real
life son of al Capone Or at the same bastion
of learning and one was talking to the other. They
(12:43):
knew each other, and al Capone Junior made a request
of his friend don Is Jor.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Yes, he told Desi not to not to do the
show because she He said, if you do the show,
it will come back to bite you, and uh, some
unsavory people may do you harm and I won't be
able to do anything to help you. And DESI thought
(13:16):
about it, but he figured. But but he you know,
he he had he had a very viable property. And
this was around the time that Elliott Nessa's book with
Oscar Frehley had hit the market and did very very well,
was the best seller, and that led to CBS developing
(13:42):
it for the Desilu Playhouse. And Desi figured, Desi was
a very very shrewd man, as you will know, Morgan,
and Desi figured, if I don't do this, somebody else will.
And uh, it's thought that he didn't take the threat seriously,
(14:04):
but he said, let's let's let's worry about what's in
front of me and make the best show that I can.
And he did. And Desi lived a good twenty years
after after the a good twenty five years after he
did The Untouchable.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So some people may remember Desi looking old and frail
when he was doing the publicity tour for my book,
had Piography.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
A book, a book, a book, which I think is
one of the coolest titles ever. It's just a book,
a book, a book, but it is.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But he looks so.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Frail, yeah, yeah, well, you know, he he he was
one of those you know, two or three pack that
pack of day smokers, right, and that makes its toll,
you know. And but he he we may have mentioned
this before on the air, but he was the one.
(15:14):
He was the one who he did not originate the
idea of filming three cameras, but he made it into
an art form and he made and basically by filming
I Love Lucy with three cameras on film. He he
had the foresight to know that if you if you
(15:36):
do it on film versus videotaper kinescope, doing it on film,
you have a permanent record. And it made possible for
rebroadcasts at the time when nobody thought nobody even thought
of rebroadcasting anything, because television was considered disposable, right, But
but he not only made the idea of the repeat,
(15:59):
the summer repeat and the syndicated you know, a repeat
UH possible, But because he owned the films along with
CPS Lucy you know, set themselves up pretty good.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And you don't think of this as in the irony.
But one of the last Desilu filmed shows, of which
there were so many was Star.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Trek, was Star Trek and Mannix and A Mission Impossible,
all of which premiered within a year of each other.
And uh and at the time uh Desi had stepped down,
but Lucy was running the studio in addition to starring
(16:54):
on The Lucy Show at the time, and I think
she was also doing her radio show for CBS Radio
at the time. So and uh, I believe she was
talking about Star Uh this is this pertains the Star
Trek in particular, but uh, it was she was the
(17:19):
one who basically gave the green light to Star Trek okay,
and and she saw something in that show that nobody
else did. And without her stamp of approval, there would
be no Captain Kirk, there would be no Mistress Bock,
there would be no franchise, there would be no Star
(17:42):
Trek franchise in all the various you know, Star Trek
movies and Star Trek spin offs and you know, sixty
years of Star Trek merchandise that all began with Lucille
Ball and Desilu Productions before they sold it to Mara Mountain.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
The funny thing about Gene Roddenberry, he was trying to
who get the concept that a Western TV series that
was the number one show in those years late fifties
was doing and doing quite well.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Yeah, yeah, he pitched it up wagon Trained to the Stars.
That's right, that's right. And uh and so but so
so it like Lucy, you know, Lucy was not as Lucy,
by her own admission, was not as visionary as DESI was.
(18:34):
But if you if you sat down and you explain
how something would I mean like for example, I mean,
uh what, she was smart enough to surround herself with
you great writers like Madeline Pugh and Bob Carroll who
you know, they say, Okay, Lucy's going to Lucy's gonna
(18:57):
stomp greats with with with the woman in this, ain't that?
And Lucy would say, why is that funny? And then
Carol and Davis would sit would would explain it to
her so to speak, and they would they would fill
in all that, They would give her a picture of
what they wanted her to do and want and then
lose and then got it. And then she you know,
(19:19):
from there she took all her skills as a comedian
and made it the magic you know, film moment that
we all know. So she was visionary in that in
that respect. But with regard to Star Trek and Mission
Impossible and Mannix, you know, she saw the potential on
(19:39):
all three of those shows and they went on to
be three of the biggest Well, Mission Impossible and Mandis
were two of the biggest hits in the nineteen sixties.
Star Trek, you know, was not a gratings hit at
the time, but it blew up in in syndication.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
More money than every other Desilu production port side by
side by, side by side times Tan, absolutely times Tan.
And like you mentioned the spin offs, I mean Voyager,
the separate shows of the new one below Decks. I
(20:19):
mean I could go on.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Deep Space nine with Avery Brooks also known as Hawk
from Spencer of Higher Spencer for Hire, and you almost were.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Hawked, you know, I told you that story you did.
Oh my goodness, all right, let me let me look
at the clock. I can tell this in thirty five
minutes seconds. I mean I worked for an agency that
was situated in the Saltensas building right next to the
(20:52):
Massachusetts Film Borough Bureau, and I knew several people. I
had left the agency for another job for the city
as a matter of fact, and they were looking for
a black actor who had a decent voice and was
rather large personally. I think I'm diminutive, but I They
(21:16):
tried to get me over the weekend. By the time
the producers get in touch with me, they had already
found Avery brook Brooks. They had hired an actor, but
another role came up and he took that other role,
and they were going to begin shooting later on that week,
so it's kind of imperative to get somebody quick. Had
(21:38):
I gotten the message on that Friday, since there was
time ticking away, I think I would have gotten.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
The role, and you you would have been the one
who said Spencer.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
No, No, no, Spence. See the difference.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
See the difference.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Let me take my break the time. If you're one,
look all in six, one, seven, two, five, four, ten
thirty or eight eight, eight, nine, two, nine, ten thirty
to call. We have about thirty minutes a show to
go here on night Side, eleven thirty at night. Temperature
is still forty two degrees.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I'm gonna tell you right now. Yeah, yeah, Morgan right
Junior filling in for Dan Ray Nightside. Yes, I'm going
to have Ed Robertson back with me in January. You know,
I usually skip a month when I have a guest,
and we'll promote men of Action again, just so I
(22:45):
can talk to Ed and have fun. That's all I
care about is having fun on radio, and he is
a fun guest. See what you've done to me? Ed.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
I appreciate that very much, Morgan.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And we've spoken about all the shows. I don't think
we've spoken enough about the magician. So I'm going to
kind of point a finger at the magician.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
All magic you're about to see is perform without trick photography.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And that that was important because he Bill Bixby learned
from the great Mark Wilson how to seemingly make cards appear.
You hold your hands straight out and you kind of
curl your fingers and puff an ason and king appear.
(23:38):
How did that happen? Ooh, it is magic. No, it's
pressed the digitation, doing something manipulation with your hands that
if you could see behind the magician's hand, you would
know what two cards were coming up. But you told
me a story, and I'm just gonna set you up
(24:00):
so you can take a golf club and hit the
ball three hundred yards. That had the Magician stayed on
it did one season. Had it stayed through a second season,
what was in store for Bill Bixby with the magician?
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Mark Wilson, who was the he was the technical consultant
on the show, and he worked with the showrunner and
he was very close to Bixby. During the time The
Magician was in production, there were plans for a big
multi city tour where Bill Bixby would perform magic in
(24:46):
various venues including Las Vegas. I believe in promotion for
what was anticipated to be the second season of The Magician. Now,
The Magician had a very it had a very interesting
broadcast history that it.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
Was.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
It went to series in the spring of seventy three,
around the time a writers guild strike that shut down
production and curtailed production of a lot of news series
at the time, including The Magician. And so by the
time the strike was settled, the show was sort of
(25:25):
in a chaotic behind the eight ball a situation. But
and they changed formats, and they changed producers at least
three times in the course of that one season. But
and they moved it to from Tuesday nights to Monday nights,
where it still faced It's still faced strong opposition against
(25:49):
Gunsmoke and the Rookies, but apparently it did well enough
to be it was considered a bubble show, which was
its numbers are well enough that depending on how the
pendulum swings, it may see a second season, and so
by when it finished original twenty two episode season run,
(26:13):
it looked like it was in the running for a
second season, and so Wilson and Bixby and the people
behind the scenes they put together this grand tour, and
just before Bixby hit the road, NBC announced that they
decided not to renew the show. And they were never
clear why they didn't renew the show. They told Wilson
(26:37):
and had to do with you weren't reaching the right demographics,
you weren't reaching the right audience. And Wilson said, well,
what exactly are you talking about? And the network was
kind of vague and never gave them a straight answer,
and that happens sometimes. It's just Harry OH is not
(26:58):
renewed for a third because the people who were behind
the show left the network and Fred Silverman took over.
And Fred Silverman had an ax to grind I understand
against David Jansen because Jansen did a show for CBS
when Silverman was in charge of CBS and seventy one
(27:21):
called O'Hara Us Treasury, which did not do well, and
Silverman remembered that. And so when Silverman took over ABC
and HARRYO was on the bubble. I have been told
on very good authority that Silverman canceled Harry O out of.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Spite because my memories of Harry oh two words, it worked. Yeah,
Henry Darrow leaving. I think he left like the first
half of the first year.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
He left around the time they moved production from San
Diego to to Los Angeles. And it would not have
it would not have been in the world television. It
would have made as much sense as than anything else
to have Henry to have Manny Quillen transferred to UH
(28:19):
Los Angeles around the same time that Harry O moved
to Los Angeles. But when they we tooled the show,
Jerry Thorpe, the show runner, felt that they needed a
little They needed an actor who provided more of a
contrast to David Jansen. You know, Darrow was a good actor,
(28:41):
but Darrow was kind of low key. David Jameson was
low key. They felt they needed someone who would be
a counterpuncher, counterpuncher, who would was who would be a
cool contrast David Jansen. And that was Anthony Zerby And
and the show really took off and found its footing.
(29:03):
And even though it went even though a lot of
the interesting trappings of the first season went by the
wayside when it moved to Los Angeles. The fact that
this marvelous, you know, relationship between Harry and Lieutenant Trench,
this symbiotic relationship between two characters who were from different
(29:27):
worlds and yet they had a lot in common. They
respected each other. And the verbal the verbal sword play,
the verbal wordplay, if I, if I may be redundant
between Jensen and and and Anthony Zerby. That was the
fun part of the.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Show and that's why I watched it. Yeah, it's funny
because the private eye detective character on TV always need
like Stu Bailey needed Detective Quinlan, like Magnum needed Tanaka.
You had to have that rather caustic police person who
(30:09):
had to follow the book, who couldn't take the liberties
of a detective. Meanwhile, detectives are breaking all kinds of
rules left, right and center. But that detective really loved
the police detective, loved the detective like a brother.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Yeah, I mean a colleague of mine described the relationship
between Harry and Lieutenant Trench as frenemies.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
You know, that's a twenty first century title, that's.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Very much a twenty first century word. But but you know,
the Trench respected Harry's independence. He respected Harry's style, even
though harry style drove him up the walls, you know,
nine times out of ten. Because Trench was, you know,
(31:03):
by the book, because he had to be he had
a department to run, he had rules to follow, and
and and so forth. He envied Harry's independence. There's a
great scene in the episode Anatomy of a Frame, which
is the first episode of the second season, where Harry
helps f frame is Uh. Trench is framed for a
(31:27):
for a murder which he didn't commit. He comes to
Harry for help and we get to learn a little
bit about Trench's backstory in that in that episode and
Uh and and he basically and Trench says, you know,
I I admire you. I admire your independence, even though
(31:50):
I can't be you. I can't I can't live like you,
you know, I can't do it like you. But it's
it's a wonderful episode. And there are many moments like
that in the Anthony's there are so many.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
For an example, Dan Tanner and Dave Nelson played by.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Greg Morris, Greg Morris and.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Spencer Spencer Hire and Lieutenant Quirk Richard.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Uh play Great Richard Yes all of.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Those characterizations are pretty much the same. The cop is
locked into rules and laws that he cannot step around,
while the private detectives steps all over those rules and laws.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And the key to making a successful show is to
fin to is to find enough, you know, uh, enough
enough angles, enough quirks to each character to make them
different enough. And sometimes it has to do with the casting,
you know, the casting of the actor. What the actor
brings the character they you know, they'll they'll flesh it
(32:57):
out and they'll bring enough with their own personality. And
if you have an actor like Robert Urich or Richard
Jacole who worked well with each other, or David Janssen
and Henry Daro or James Gardner and James Louisi and
Rockford Files, you know, that's where the real magic of
that relationship comes.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Let me take my last break. I have a caller,
and John in North Carolina will get to you after
a few commercials. I promise time and temperature eleven forty
five forty two degrees.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Now back to Dan Way live from the Window World,
Nice Sight Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Roughly ten minutes of show to go, John in North Carolina,
You've waited long enough. Here's your chance to speak with
Ed Robertson. Hi.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
Ed, I'm Morgan.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Hello.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Hi.
Speaker 6 (33:54):
I thought it was interesting when I heard you speaking
about Roy Huggins, because I just recently read a detective
novel by him. It was it was called The Double Take.
It was from nineteen forty six, if.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
I remember correctly, that was that was the That was
the novella that he introduced Stu Bailey exactly.
Speaker 6 (34:17):
That's that was something I was going to mention that.
And it's from nineteen forty six, so I guess about
ten years before seventy seven Sunset Strip. But I thought
it was very good. It was kind of a Raymond
Chandler esque type mystery.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Well, Roy, that's that's That's how Roy started his career.
He started his career as a novelist into Chandler vein
and he his publisher at the time was a man
named Howard Brown. He published several of his novellas, and
(34:54):
then one thing led to another and Roy saw the
future in a storytelling in television and when about fast
forward about ten years in the early nineteen fifties, when
Roy established himself as a various as one of the
top producers in television with Warner Brothers. He remembered his
(35:18):
friend Howard Brown when Howard Brown decided to break into television,
and Howard wrote for Roy not only a Warner Brothers
but also a Universal. So it's all I mean, it's
all kind of circular.
Speaker 6 (35:34):
Well, did Roy then leave Warner Brothers and become an
independent producer?
Speaker 4 (35:42):
No, he left Warner Brothers in fifty nine sixty. He
was a little burned out because and for reasons that
I explained in detail in Maverick Legend of the West,
my book on the Map show. He was feeling he
(36:03):
was responsible for like seventy percent of Warner Brothers prime
time shows on ABC. But because of the way Warner
Brothers ran his television apartment in the early going, they
refuse to give an independent writer created by a credit
(36:25):
which gave him or her a share of the pie,
you know, because Warner Brothers was very strident. You know,
we will only develop movies or properties we own. We
will only develop those for television. We will not pay
an independent writer, We will not pay a producer or
created by credit. And you know, Roy was working very
(36:49):
hard and he was you know, you know, cult forty
five seventy seven sunset strip. You know, most all those
successful Warner Brothers shows at the time, he wasn't. I
mean they all, they all tied back to him, you know,
(37:10):
at one point. And so he decided to leave the studio.
And and and as we mentioned in our first hour,
he was a little down on television to begin with.
He left the industry and was going to get his
h He was going to get his doctorate and teach
when in sixty three, sixty two, sixty three Universal called him. Uh,
(37:37):
they need they had they had the Virginian, which they bought,
but they needed They felt they needed a new producer,
and so they made Roy an offer he couldn't refuse.
And so he went back into television and stayed with
the Universal for almost twenty years.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Wow, well you mentioned warners. Now I think what I
read when Jack Warner set up that TV division, did
he not expect it to be very much? He just
did it. What did he put his son in charge
of it?
Speaker 4 (38:10):
He did his son in law, if I remember correctly,
William Peatwoor, and.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
He did it.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Jack Warner did it reluctantly. He did it because all
the other studios were leaving their mark were entering television.
Warners was at the time, Warners was still very famous.
You know when he made movies, when Warner Brothers made movies,
you know, we're not going to portray a living room
(38:42):
scene with the television in it. Because he saw television
as the enemy. And so when they finally did enter television,
as we said, they took a very narrow approach to it,
and that ended up. I mean, it paid off initially
in the short term because they made a deal with
ABC and they provided a lot of programming for ABC,
(39:05):
but it hurt them within ten years because they were
losing a lot of talent.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Then, not only did they treat their they worked there,
they overworked their writers, and they didn't they they didn't
let them share in the pie, so to speak. But
they signed their actors to seven year contracts, they paid
them next to nothing, and then they but they exploited
them until James Garner famously stood up to them and said,
(39:33):
I ain't going to do this anymore, and he took
them to court and he beat them in court, and
the Warner Brothers realized, Okay, we have to change the
way we do this. Otherwise we're going to lose other
James Garner's down the Road.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
It was, for an example, Hawaiian and I was surfside
six not in not in Honolulu, but in.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Miami, and both Hawaiian and I and serve side six
for variations of seventy seven sunset strip, which was the
which which originated with Roy Huggins. And so that that's
why Roy felt a little That's why Roy felt a
little put upon it, as he put it himself, because
(40:18):
there were three shows that started with him, and yet
the studio was making money off of off of those
off of those shows, but they wouldn't recognize him.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
And John, I gotta let you go because I'm almost
out of time and I want to say a proper
goodbye to Ed. So John, thank you for your.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Call, Thank you for calling.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
All right, and I got to do this again with you.
I'll call you and set up something in January.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Absolutely is always a pleasure to talk to you and
your audience, Morgan, and I hope some of your listeners
will pick up a copy of Minute Action available Amazon
dot com. If you love classic television, if you love
the history of television, it's it's a great gift idea.
You really like this book.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Riverboat Ring your Bell Taillywell Anna Belle Luck is a
lady that he loves the best. And I'm going to
tell you something I get a minute before I have
to sign off. Nancy, who's sitting next to me. She
got all the lyrics from Brett Maverick and framed them
(41:26):
with a royal flesh hand in the middle. That's what
a partner is supposed to do. Absolutely, And on that note,
I thank you enjoying the rest of your holiday weekend
and we'll talk again.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Happy you take care.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And by the way, Dan, you did a good job tonight.
Thank you. And Nancy sitting next to me, and Gray
on the floor on the rug. Thank you for all
of you who listened, whether you called or not. I
appreciate the fact that you made Nightside your choice for
this Thanksgiving evening, and now that it has become time
(42:09):
to say it. Eleven fifty eight by Boston, forty two
degrees
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