December 5, 2024 • 40 mins
Massachusetts ballot Question 1, regarding authorization of the state auditor to audit the state legislature passed with roughly 72% of the vote. Based off the election results, it’s clear that the residents of Massachusetts overwhelmingly support an audit of the state legislature. The question is when will that audit begin? State Auditor Diana DiZoglio is looking to begin that process before the end of the year, but will she have to wait until the start of the new year? State Auditor DiZoglio checked in with Dan.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBS Costs Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, welcome back everyone. I think most of my
audience knows the story that we're about to discuss with
State Auditor, the Auditor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Auditor
Diana Desaglio, Auditor Dozaglio, Welcome back to NIGHTSID.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
How are you, Dan, Thanks so much for having me
back on. It's always great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's always great to have you on. You recently walked
across the state in order to bring some visibility to
the issue that is so important to you, and it's
a pretty simple request you're making. You, as the state Auditor,
want the opportunity to order the state legislature, of which
you have served in both houses, in both the State
(00:54):
House of Representatives and in the State Senate. But the
leadership has been somewhat resistant to your requests to audit
their books, which to me is a problem. You know
that I'm a big supporter of your effort here, and
(01:15):
you were successful. On November fifth, seventy two percent of
the record number of voters that went to the polls
supported your request, which really should be obvious to audit
the state Legislature, and I was surprised today you carried
with that issue, that ballot question three hundred and fifty
(01:39):
one out of the three hundred and fifty one Massachusetts
and cities and towns. You carried every community and the
state legislature. The leadership of the state legislature is trying
to throw a monkey wrench into the wishes and the
votes of their their stitchuents.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
What's going on, Yeah, Dan, it's really unfortunate. And they're
not just somewhat opposing, they are humanly still opposing our
efforts to conduct an audit that not only was already
state lawe as a state law, as we demonstrated with
the over one hundred audits that our office has always
(02:22):
conducted in the past, but now we passed this new
state law into law. Together with like you said, three
hundred and fifty one cities and towns voting in support.
We did not lose one community in Massachusetts. Seventy two
percent of the voters of Massachusetts spoke loud and clear
that they want increased transparency and accountability from our state legislature,
(02:48):
which is frequently ranked as one of the least if
not the least transparent state legislature and the entire nation.
Our legislature exempts itself from public records laws, they exempt
themselves from open meeting laws. They are able to take
votes in the middle of the night with actually no
recorded role call votes and passed bills into law while
(03:10):
everybody's sleeping with no public hearings. It's no wonder why
we've been recently ranked as having one of the least efficient. Actually,
we've got the ranking of police efficient state legislature in
the entire nation just this last year. We've had a
late state budget for at least fourteen years. Friends, it's
(03:31):
time for change, and the voters did just vote for change.
Voters across Massachusetts came out, they spoke loud and clear,
they called on their elected leaders to change the status quo.
And unfortunately, legislative leaders still have not gotten the message.
And they've actually done some work in recent weeks to
(03:53):
try to stemy the efforts of the auditor's office by
actually passing a rules change in their House of Representatives
to essentially try to signal that it's their intention to
try to replace the law essentially with their own version
(04:14):
of just hiring a private auditor. Controlling the process and
being able to decide what's examined, what's not examined, what's released,
what's not released, to be able to control the entire
scope of those audits and prevent some private firm from
being able to examine anything that they don't want them
to examine. Basically, they've been trying to state that they
(04:35):
believe that the same process they've always used is sufficient,
while friends, that's not acceptable. The voters spoke loud and clear,
so we are demanding access to what they are doing
with your tax dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So now it looks to me, and I don't know
if you can agree with me or not, that it
looks to me as if they are trying to do
since we're in the middle of the football season, sort
of an end around play. And what they're saying is
the voter spoke seventy two percent. Seventy two percent, I
mean that's like three nearly three out of four voters
(05:10):
said audit to allow the auditor to audit the legislature.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, I think I think Duncan donuts, Tom Brady when
he was here, and auditing the legislature are the only
things that have that that amount of percentage of support.
That's pretty incredible, pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Absolutely, So now we're going to try to make sure
people understand. So what the legislature is doing. They have said, well,
even though the state constitution says that questions on the
ballot become law thirty days after the vote in Massachusetts,
and if we count the days from November fifth, this
(05:54):
law giving you the ability to audit the legislature should
now be the law of the comal. But the legislature
has said, uh huh, it should We're going to say
it's thirty days from when the Secretary of State verified
corroborated the electoral results. Is the electoral results? Is that going?
(06:17):
As I understand it, They're basically trying to stall you.
This is the old end around stall.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Play, So you are correct there trying to stall implementation
of the law that they've already signaled they have no
intention of following. So essentially what just happened over the
course of the last week, our office has been preparing
to initiate the audit that we you know, are supposed
to be conducted, that we're mandated to conduct, and that
(06:46):
is actually in effect to take place for the law.
That's an effect to take place today December fifth. November
fifth was the election today, December fifth. That law is
actually supposed to be in place. It actually is effective.
It is effective today exactly. Now, what's happening right now
(07:08):
as legislative leaders are trying to stall and they're saying, well,
that's not accurate. You know, it's thirty days from when
the question gets certified by the Governor's Council. And that's
just simply inaccurate. Dan, It's actually very clear in the
Constitution that actually says in a crystal queer fashion that
(07:28):
ballot questions regarding state law changes are to take effects
thirty days after the state election. Now, I didn't just
pull that information just from the Constitution. I actually verified
it by looking at the Secretary of State's Informational Guidebook
(07:49):
on Ballot Questions. That actually explicitly states in the secretary
of State's Guidebook that the law takes place. It doesn't
just say that it takes place thirty days after the
state election. It actually says the date in the guide book.
It says the date of December fifth, twenty twenty four,
these laws shall take effect. However, when I went to
(08:14):
go and call for the law to take effects today.
We heard a different story yesterday, unfortunately, and leaders on
Beacon Hill said that you know that now wasn't accurate
and that was what was written and the Secretary of
State's guidebook was not actually the truth, and that they
(08:36):
believe they have more time, and you know, it's just
we're at the point Dan where you know, there's so
much guest lighting going on. Something needs to be done.
People need to start standing up and calling their elected
officials and demanding that this law be followed. So if
you're listening tonight, folks, please call the Secretary of State
(08:58):
and ask for his support. Please call the Attorney General
and ask for her support. Please call the governor ask
for her to help and ensure that this becomes you know,
it's actually effective, sooner rather than later. The law is
the law today, And call every state legislator that you
can and demand that they follow the will of the people.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
So well said, we're going to take a quick break,
and when we come back, I want to explain what
I think the legislature has planned, because they have another
play that they want to run. After they stall you
for thirty days, there will be a new legislature in session,
and I think that they have another trick up their sleeves,
(09:41):
and I want to run that one by you. And
I want people to understand that you're a Democrat. You
were a Democratic state representative, you were an aid to
a Democrat in the House, you were a Democratic state representative.
You're a state senator, a Democratic state senator, and you
are elected as an auditor who happens to be a Democrat.
(10:01):
So this is not some Republican who is outnumbered badly
at the legislature. You are with the majority party and
all you want is some transparency. Sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
But you have the legislative leadership up there which controls
their membership by doling out committee and subcommittee assignments and
(10:23):
the extra money that those individuals earn above and beyond
their base salary. And that is how the legislature stays
the legislature of Massachusetts. We're going to emphasize to people
that they need to take some action. You can do
two things. You can call tonight and support the state
auditor and let your voice be heard across the commonwealth.
(10:46):
But in addition to that, I hope you'll be willing
to call tomorrow or buttonhold your state legislator or this weekend,
whether it be your state senator or your state representative,
and say the vote has been taken. The Democrats we're
talking about on a national level, that they were concerned
that this election was about democracy, Diana, as I'm sure
(11:08):
you know, and they were concerned that the democracy was
on the ballot. Well, democracy is actually on the ballot
here in Massachusetts, and by a seventy two to twenty
eight percent margin. People say, audit the legislature. I'm going
to give our phone number, and then later on I'll
give the phone number the State House tomorrow, and let's
see what we can do to get this get this movie.
(11:29):
And some legislators have to grow some backbone and go
to the Senate president and the House Speaker and say, hey, look,
you know, the people have spoken. Members in my district
have spoken, and this could become a huge campaign issue
the next time two years from now, if indeed the people,
the will of the people is overridden. My guest is
State Auditor Diana Desauglio, who is doing a great job,
(11:53):
and it's this is not a partisan issue, this is
this is what the people want seventy two percent of
the people say, let's audit the state legislature. Let's get
it done. And by the way, if Senate, if the Speaker,
Speaker Mariano, or if the Senate President Karen Spilker, Senate
President Spilker would like to come on to the program
(12:14):
UH next week sometime and tell us why their position
is correct, they would be more than welcome. And if
they'd love to come on with the State Auditor, that
would even be better. That would be really fun. But
they won't. I guarantee you they won't. We'll take a break.
Here's the number six one seven, ten thirty six one
seven nine three one ten thirty. This is about the
(12:37):
way your money is being spent at the legislature.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
UH.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
The uditor wants to find out how it's being spent
and is it being spent properly? UH, because frankly, we
have a lot of people in need here in the Commonwealth,
and we want to make sure the money goes to
the people and the programs that are needed, UH, and
not to to particular little programs that maybe the legislature
(13:03):
doesn't really want to have people see the light of day.
That's what this is all about back on Nightside. My
name is Dan Ray. Light these lines up six point
seven four ten thirty. This is an important issue. Back
on Nightside. Now back to Dan Ray live from the
Window World Nightside.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Where are the Window World studio wheel, which, of course
is right, The windows are here in the background. Folks,
trust me on that. We're delighted to be with the
state of Auto of the Comma of Massachusetts dying in Dessaugliel.
Before we go to phone calls, which we will go to,
and I want to get to as many as we
possibly can, Madam Auditor. It seems to me what the
(13:43):
legislature would like to do. They would love to draw
you into a lawsuit so this whole issue can be
tied up in a court of law for you know,
two or three years, or they would like to when
they convene in January, try to pass some sort of
bill which overrides what the people have voted for. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
I actually, well, no, no, I don't think you're far Often.
I think the reality is is that, you know, I
would love to be able to adjudicate this matter in
a court of law, but I've already tried to sue
the legislature. The Attorney General blocked my access to a
court for my constitutionally guaranteed in partial hearing, and you know,
(14:28):
that was very unfortunate, and I really wanted to be
able to adjudicate this matter and resolve this issue at
a court of law before it was necessary to do
something like take it to the ballot. The ballot was
a lot of hard work.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
A lot of.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
People had to invest a lot of hours across Massachusetts
collecting signatures, campaigning, raising donations. It was a lot of work.
It was one of the hardest things I've ever done,
and then I think a lot of people that worked
on have ever done. But we did it right. The
reason why we had to do it, though, is because
of the legislature's refusal essentially to want to meet us
(15:09):
in court, the AG's refusal to allow us access to court.
So I actually think that legislators are scared to go
to a court of law, that their arguments are completely ridiculous.
They have said that they believe it's unconstitutional for the
Office of State Auditor to conduct an audit of the
(15:31):
state legislature, and this is being said. Then while they
simultaneously themselves conduct audits of the executive branch agencies. What
they have said is an audit for thee but not
for me. They can audit all the executive branch agencies
and they do so with their post audit and overscity
(15:55):
that literally has subpoena authority over the executive brand government.
But yet they claim that there's some constitutional separation of
powers that's one directional and only matters when the executive
branch tries to conduct an audit back. They want to
completely get out of the system of checks and balance
(16:19):
zero accountability, because it's not enough that they're exempt from
the public records law. It's not enough that they're exempt
from open meeting laws. It's not enough that they're the
most powerful politicians in Massachusetts and get to make decisions
about all of our tax dollars under a cloak of
darkness in the middle of the night, with zero accountability.
(16:39):
They want more power. So what they are doing is
they are trying to ensure that there is zero accountability
regarding what their actions are regarding the use of our
tax dollars. And I don't think that they want to
go to court to discuss this matter. I think that
they've been hiding from court. And I think that unfortunately,
Thettorney general decision to refuse to give us access to
(17:03):
court with something that legislators actually agreed with. I think
that they just are hoping that the Attorney General blocks
our access to the court system again and that they
can continue to get away with, you know, refusing to
abide by the law. And that's why I need everybody's
help to please call all of our elected officials on
(17:25):
Beacon Hell, especially our Attorney General and our governor.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Yeah, you know, let me take.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
A suggestion if I could.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I am not your lawyer. However, I'm stunned that the
Attorney General, Andrea Campbell, would prevent you, as the state auditor,
from basically attempting to win and enforce the ballot initiative
that you, the voters of Massachusetts approved on November fifth,
(17:54):
Number one, number two. There's a way in which if
Andrea Campbell is unwilling to represent you in your capacity
as state auditor, what would prevent you from going to
the Supreme Court State Supreme Court as a citizen, not
as the state auditor, but basically you and maybe I
(18:17):
don't know, a small group of other citizens, almost the
equivalent of a civil class action suit. There is a
way to get to the state Supreme Court quickly. It's
called what they call the gatekeeper statue. Most lawyers in
Massachusetts who you would talk to, would know of what
I speak. That would get you before a single justice
(18:38):
very quickly.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And I really appreciate that, Dan, Yeah, I really appreciate that.
I actually just wanted to jump in because you're on
the right track there. But I will say it's not
me who would be doing that. I actually have already
been told that should be Attorney General not step in
(19:00):
to require compliance with the people's audit that was just
voted for that. There are organizations who are strongly considering
filing a lawsuit against the Commonwealth to demand compliance. Now, now, again,
what a shame, What a shame that would be.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, I wouldn't file it. Well, I would file it
against the Speaker and the Senate President in their in
their capacities as speakers, as Speaker and Senate President, and
also in their individual capacities as citizens of the Commonwealth.
And again there is this process called a gatekeeper statute,
which basically can streamline and get this into court very quickly,
(19:43):
and I just emphasized that you may want to at
least have some lawyers look at it. Why Andrea Campbell
would side with the legislature against a fellow constitutional officer,
who are all really members of the executive branch as
it were. You're executives, You're not a member of the governors,
(20:06):
and the governors should join you as well. Anyway, let
me do this. I'm just throwing that out at that
idea to you because I know enough about the law
to be dangerous here.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
And I'm yeah, and Dan, honestly, you're actually stating what
a lot of people have been saying. And I think,
you know, it's really important that we do realize as
elected officials that you know, the reality is is that
if people do not follow the law, that the Commonwealth
is opening itself up to lawsuits from outside groups, outside organizations,
(20:40):
outside individuals, and folks have already stated that that is
something that's an absolute possibility and that you know, they
would consider doing that. So it is definitely something that
is I think should be concerning to the attorneys unknown
to the legislative leaders, because you know, look, it's time to
(21:03):
come together, it's time to get this done. It's time
for the games to stop. This is the law. Now,
this is a serious issue to violate the law in
this way. You know, this is not some disagreement about
some random issue you know that isn't really that big
of a deal. This is a huge issue of concern
and it is a really big deal for lawmakers lawmakers
(21:24):
to violate the law. And it would be an even
bigger deal if they were violating the law to such
a capacity. You know that, you know, it actually inspired
people to sue from outside of our government, to feel
that they had to sue to get compliance. You know,
(21:44):
this should be something that's being done anyways.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they're covering
up things that they don't want the public to be
aware of. And I would just finish my comment and
then we're going to go to news and I have
full lines, Diana. So I think we've got some people
who are interested. Here, a lot of my friends, brothers
and sisters at the bar listen to this program, and
(22:07):
if anyone of you lawyers in Massachusetts who would like
to provide you with some either some advice, guidance, help
or direction, and they want to contact me tomorrow. Particularly
if they're friends of mine, I will put them in
touch with you so we can maybe anything we can
(22:27):
do to help you. Diana's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Thank you so much. Dan, I appreciate that. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I mean, you did the hard work, you walked across
the state. All you're looking for is a little bit
of transparency. It's what democracy is all about. The Democrats
have been talking about democracy now for months, saving democracy.
The Washington Post. Democracy dies in darkness. There is no
darker chambers in the state than the House of Representatives
(22:52):
and the state Senate chambers here in Massachusetts. And I'm
telling you, and you know as well as I do,
that they're going to try to run some some additional
play in early January to override what the voters of
the Commonwealth are demanding. So let's take a break, get
a few minutes for news, and I want to get
right to listeners. And I guarantee you you're going to
(23:14):
hear support from my audience, which is gonna going to
bolster your your confidence. And I'm I'm so delighted that many,
so many people are are chomping to get get to
phone lines We'll be back with my guest, the state
unor the Comwealth of Massachusetts. Uh, auditor Diana Desauglia, who
is doing a great job at the State House. And
(23:35):
I emphasize she is a Democrat. This is not some
Republican crying in the darkness. She's supported by by three
out of four voters in the election of November fifth.
Back on Nightside after.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
This, it's Night Side with.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
So I guess the state auditor, Madam monitor, Let's go
to the phones down. Kareine and Lynn. Karine welcome, you're
all with Diana the State Auditor. Go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Hi, can you hear me?
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Okay, there, we can hear you perfectly.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Karin, thank you for Is it Corina Korea? How do
you pronounce it?
Speaker 4 (24:16):
It is Kareene. However, if you chooses a Karan, I say,
just kick one and go with it, right ahead, kre
go ahead, all right, Hello State Auditor. Uh, this is ugly,
oh very nice.
Speaker 6 (24:31):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Oh, I'm wonderful, thank you. And actually, just to get
it quickly out of the way, a little bit of
a family member. We are with the vicaros.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Oh wow, yes.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Yes, so lovely. To hear you immediately caught my attention
because I listened to Dan quite often when I'm in
the car, and that's why AM radio is important as well.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I got to get you a radio for your house, Caren.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
And I do tell Alexa, but I can't say her
name too often because she'll turn everything on, you know,
But just to quickly, I have five or six subjects,
I won't pick them all. I have called you in
the past, man, I am an auditor, or was an
auditor myself for the federal government with the VA, and
we used to conduct our own internal audits UH for
(25:26):
what they call vera veterans ectimal resource Allocation because ninety
percent of funding would come from UH Congress and about
five percent was actually billing UH for not Medicare. He
couldn't build for another government agency, but for other you know,
(25:46):
if they.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Had want to.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I want to get you to our topic at hand, he.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Tell you. So we wouldn't conduct our own internal audits.
And now what I'm trying what I'm getting from this
because there was a lot of conversation that both of
you had, but it sounded like you were saying, there's
like a unilateral audit that they're conducting already, and that's
what they're saying, is efficient enough? Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
They all audit on them on themselves, the conduct the
audit on themselves, and what the auditor wants to do
is to be able to do what she is obligated
to do constitutionally, as her title suggests, State auditor.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Now, now, even the what they're doing unilaterally their own audit,
are they publishing that? Is that available to see? Also?
And yes, of course I was one of the ones
who you know, of the seventy two percent that voted yes,
But is that even published like to see? Is that? Grin?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Thank you so so much for calling in. I can
clear up a couple of these things. So essentially what's
going on is the state legislature has chosen to audit themselves.
They hire a private firm, and they control the entire
scope of that audit, which means they decide what they
allow that audit firm to see. They decide what is
(27:11):
chosen regarding what is actually audited. So they limit the
information that they provide to that auditing firm, and then
they release only what they want to release to the
general public. That auditing firm has zero right to release
any information that they find in those documents or anything
that they're examining without the Speaker of the House or
(27:34):
the Senate president's approval, because they are privately contracted with
private vendor, so they have to abide by the rules
of the Senate and the rules of the House of Representative,
which means the legislature is essentially auditing themselves. Yes, they
are hiring someone to do it, but they're controlling every
(27:55):
aspect of what is looked at and what is released
to the public, which is precious living. Their last release
of some sort of a supposed audit was only a
few pages with very high level information, no financial receipts attached,
no documentation, nothing regarding any state contracting. So there are
(28:18):
a lot of concerns that there are potential unlawful behaviors occurring.
And essentially what has happened is the voters went and
the voters said that's not sufficient. We want the Office
of State Auditor to conduct audits of the legislature, just
like they conduct of every other state entity. Because the
(28:39):
Auditor's office is the independent voice of the people. It
is an independently elected position. The people of the Commonwealth
choose the auditor. That is why, you know, during my campaign,
I told people I am the people's auditor. I audit
on behalf of the people. The people are the boss
of the Auditor's office as a constitutional office. So it's
(29:02):
really important that those independent audits take place by the
State Auditor's Office of all the departments and entities of
the Commonwealth to make sure that there's a system of
checks and balances and that there is accountability. I hope
that helps tonight, Karen, and I hope you have a
great evening.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
We'll call your legislators tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
I will, I will. Can I just ask one more thing?
Speaker 5 (29:24):
Will please?
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And I hate to do this year. I'm up on
my break and I got five other calls behind you.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Oh. I just wanted to know what did we do
before the lottery? Where did money come from before that?
That's all I wanted to ask.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
There is so much sad that one for.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
The next time, because I think they raised taxes. The
funds from the lottery essentially is an additional revenue source
that people participate in voluntarily in. About eighty percent of
it goes back in prizes and twenty percent goes back
to cities and towns. Thanks Karin, I got to keep
rolling here. Thank you very much, keep calling this. Coming
(30:00):
right back on Nightside with State Auditor my guest Diana Desoglio.
Now back to Dan Ray, live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. Here, folks have
pack lines. The auditor will be staying with us until ten,
so let's try to move as quickly as we can.
I want to hear people say that they'll they support
(30:21):
what she's doing and that she's going to that you
will be calling your legislators tomorrow or button holding them
this weekend somewhere in the district dev in Boston, Hey Dev,
thanks for calling it. You almost stayed. Auditor Diana Dezakio go.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Right ahead yesterday evening, Thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I wanted to just comment the fact that the voters.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Voted in a favor of this. My question is what
are is the legislates you're afraid of?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
This is what this just draws suspicions there in their area.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
I don't understand it.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, they voted seventy I mean you know that's us.
That's what's called a big landslide. Do you want to
give them. Give deb a quick response as to what
you think they're afraid of. They're afraid of. Transparency is
what they're afraid of.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Go ahead, Diana dev thank you. Thank you so much
Sep for calling in. I really appreciate the question. Look,
you know, I'll respond to your question with a question.
If your house is really dirty, do you invite and
welcome people in? Or is it when your house is
clean do you invite people in? You invite people in
(31:34):
when your house is clean. If you have a really
messy house, you know it's it's not a time when
you want to invite people in. So frankly, you know,
the pushback and the vehement opposition is really something to
be deeply concerned about, because to your point, if there
is nothing to hide, then open the doors, let the sunlight.
(31:54):
And you know, we look into every state entity and
it is very often that we find challenges. That's what
the Auditor's Office does. We identify challenges so that we
can promote solutions. When we audited DCF, we did so
to help protect children and we were able to identify
challenges for the purposes of making the Department of Children
and Families work better for children across our communities. When
(32:17):
we look at MBTA and we audit our state's MBTA,
we do so to help our transportation system work better.
And you know, folks know, we need a lot of
work in that department. So every bit that we can
do to help by examining areas where we can fill
gaps in the system, you know, we need to be
doing that. So if folks are afraid to allow the
(32:39):
light to shine in and they want to remain in darkness,
folks need to be concerned about that. If there's nothing
to hide, then open the doors and let the sunlight in.
If you didn't do anything wrong on purpose, then you
should be willing to have the auditor's office look at
some potential solutions for some of the challenges facing your organization.
(33:02):
Nobody's perfect. Humans work in organizations, and again, we generally
find areas of concern wherever we go and conduct audits.
That's normal. So to refuse an audit really suggests that
there are some significant challenges, uh, and that there are
some some some concerns. So you know, folks do need
to call their legislators. Thank you for the question, Thanks absolutely,
(33:25):
And I think that I got.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Three more I'm trying to sneak in here. Deb. I
really appreciate your supporting this one, but I got to
get to the other callers. I got to give everybody
a minute or two.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
Okay, thank you, absolutely, thank you, thank you, Deb.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I really appreciate your next very thanks to Bill in
the on the North Show. BILLI, youare next on nice
side with State Auditor Diana Disgli. You've got to be
quick from me. Bill. I know you've been waiting a while,
but I got two behind your career hair.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Okay, I'm going to leave. I'm going to try to
say two things. Number One, I called the uh my
state rep. Senators and so forth. I have to say
to you quite frankly, and the auditor might know better.
It's virtually a waste of time. What you need, in
my opinion, is maybe you talked about suing unfortunately, but
you need to get somebody's attention because they do not care.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
The problem is this, here's the problem power.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Okay, so let me say it. Let me say it.
Get the Feds in here, somebody.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Bill, Bill that I don't know if that happens. Bill,
You've got to understand the system for the FEDS to
come in. They have to come in on their own.
Diana Desauglio doesn't have the standing, nor do I, nor
do you to call the feds up and say, hey,
go audit the legislature.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I want to saying it like that. But you can
get we have They represent us too. They have a
right to call whoever you want.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
When you come on my show and say it's a
waste of time to call the state, the state reps
and the state senators, you're defeating what my purpose is
here tonight. I want pressure to go on these state
reps and these state senators, and I want them to
go to Mariano and to Spilka and say, look, I'm
not with you on this. You know this. This is
that's what we need to do politically.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Let me give you just one example. Please, let me
give you one example.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I'll kind you one minute.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Go ahead, Thank you, I appreciate it. I have waited
a while.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Let's take to other people behind you by the way, bill.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Go ahead, Okay, I'm gonna make it quick if you
let me do it.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
As an example, you've been in this state a long time.
I've been here my whole life. Let's go back to
COVID for a second, that timeline. How serious people are
on their backs. What did the legislature do? It was
on the front page of the Herald. I don't know
about the Globe, probably not, but the Herald they put
in a well, I think it was a six point
(35:40):
two raise. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. And a bill.
You know what you're doing here. You're a guy in
the locker room who was saying to us, we can't
beat those guys. Let's stay in the locker room. No,
stay in the locker room. I don't believe it's stayed
out of the locker room build up. Appreciate your call.
Let me go to Paul in Montster. Paul your next
night's I'm glad.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
Yeah, damn mad a monitor. Thanks thanks for taking the call.
I'm pressuring our legislatives. It's really the only good option.
It's still a fascinating issue. It's also a national embarrassment. Now.
I don't even like ballot questions. You know, you have
somewhat uninformed voters voting on complex public policy. You have
(36:25):
campaigns on both sides that build up around these questions.
I always think I've always thought in a way that
the Constitution should be changed to do away with ballid questions. Well,
this whole issue is getting me to rethink that. So
I got one other and I.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Think is easily understandable. And seventy two percent of the
people said let the sunshine in. You're absolutely right, Paul.
Speaker 6 (36:48):
Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing a three almost three quarters
of the voters to agree on this. I mean, it's
kind of a no brainer. It's this is a fascinating,
a fascinating issue, and it is a national embarrassment. But
I'll look at you. I'll just leave it. I'll leave
it there. Go take your last caller, and happy holidays everybody.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Merry Christmas, Happy Honka, whatever you celebrate. I appreciate it. Paul,
you've bet one of the better callers in the night.
Let me go next to Mike and Newton. Mike, we
got about a minute for you. I know you've waited
a long time.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Go right ahead, that's okay, I can be quick, Hi,
dav Hey, No, what are they hiding? I think I
think that raises the red flag as soon as they
say we don't want it on it.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
What are they hiding?
Speaker 5 (37:28):
It's similar to the Massachusetts State Police. What are they
hiding about the recruit out there? And it goes on
and on and on with match Massachusetts government.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
I'm with you totally on both of those counts, On
both of those counts, Mike, I appreciate it. Please, will
you call your legislators tomorrow? Uh? And I hope everyone
in this audience will call the main number at the
State House. Pretty simple number to remember. It is six
one seven seven to two two thousand. If you tell
that person what town you live in, I'll direct you
(38:00):
to your legislator. Let's overwhelm them with phone calls tomorrow.
And let's you know, the state audit, who is working
for everyone here in Massachusetts, certainly for the seventy two percent,
the twenty eight percent who might have voted the other way,
probably other people, you know, the relatives of the stuff.
Legislator says, Thanks Mike, thanks so much.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
Merry Christmas.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Merry Christmas to you as well, Diana, thank you, thank you,
thank you for your efforts in your time. I will
always fight alongside you. And as I say, when someone
tells me we can't win, that's like being in a
in a locker room and saying let's not play the
game because we can't win. That you lost before you start,
so I know you agree with me. Let's let's beat him.
(38:45):
Let's beat them.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
At their own game, you know, Dan, I just want
to say thanks so much for having me on, and
thanks to every caller who called in. Let's stay inspired,
let's stay hopeful, Let's call anyways, let's email anyways. You know,
Let's make sure that we are lifting our voices and
standing in unity. You know, I often say this, Dan,
(39:08):
You talk about how I'm a Democrat and when I
come on and I join you, you know, and I
have to say this. It is wonderful to also then
hear you follow it up with the fact that this
is not a Democrat or Republican issue. I, as state auditor,
audit all of these state entities, you know, regardless of
party affiliation. And the reality is is that this bullet
question passed only because people were willing to cross party lines,
(39:32):
work together with one another, and take on the power
structure up on Beacon Hill, who is for far too
long gotten away with not just shenanigans, but violating the
law that they require everybody else to follow. So really,
It's going to take all of us being consistent, continuing
to be determined, and continuing to come together, inspiring one another,
(39:57):
end uplifting one another to do the right thing, to
make sure that these folks are held accountable. You know,
we deserve access to how our tax dollars are being spent.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Not a heavy lift.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Let's get it done.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I'm into my ten o'clock news, but I will just
tell you this, I will have you back anytime. I
still have a couple of weeks more left on the
ear in the here. I'm busy in the next two
weeks and then I start right after the first of
the year. I'll have you back, and I'll have you
back soon. Please think.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Thanks so much, everybody, have a great night. Everybody call
your elected officials. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Thanks, Thanks, Diana, appreciate it so much. We're a little
bit late, we're into the newscast, but it's well worth it.
Thank you, Rob for that generous generosity of your time.
Back on night's side, we're going to talk about that
murder in New York. On the other side,
It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBS Costs Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, welcome back everyone. I think most of my
audience knows the story that we're about to discuss with
State Auditor, the Auditor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Auditor
Diana Desaglio, Auditor Dozaglio, Welcome back to NIGHTSID.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
How are you, Dan, Thanks so much for having me
back on. It's always great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's always great to have you on. You recently walked
across the state in order to bring some visibility to
the issue that is so important to you, and it's
a pretty simple request you're making. You, as the state Auditor,
want the opportunity to order the state legislature, of which
you have served in both houses, in both the State
(00:54):
House of Representatives and in the State Senate. But the
leadership has been somewhat resistant to your requests to audit
their books, which to me is a problem. You know
that I'm a big supporter of your effort here, and
(01:15):
you were successful. On November fifth, seventy two percent of
the record number of voters that went to the polls
supported your request, which really should be obvious to audit
the state Legislature, and I was surprised today you carried
with that issue, that ballot question three hundred and fifty
(01:39):
one out of the three hundred and fifty one Massachusetts
and cities and towns. You carried every community and the
state legislature. The leadership of the state legislature is trying
to throw a monkey wrench into the wishes and the
votes of their their stitchuents.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
What's going on, Yeah, Dan, it's really unfortunate. And they're
not just somewhat opposing, they are humanly still opposing our
efforts to conduct an audit that not only was already
state lawe as a state law, as we demonstrated with
the over one hundred audits that our office has always
(02:22):
conducted in the past, but now we passed this new
state law into law. Together with like you said, three
hundred and fifty one cities and towns voting in support.
We did not lose one community in Massachusetts. Seventy two
percent of the voters of Massachusetts spoke loud and clear
that they want increased transparency and accountability from our state legislature,
(02:48):
which is frequently ranked as one of the least if
not the least transparent state legislature and the entire nation.
Our legislature exempts itself from public records laws, they exempt
themselves from open meeting laws. They are able to take
votes in the middle of the night with actually no
recorded role call votes and passed bills into law while
(03:10):
everybody's sleeping with no public hearings. It's no wonder why
we've been recently ranked as having one of the least efficient. Actually,
we've got the ranking of police efficient state legislature in
the entire nation just this last year. We've had a
late state budget for at least fourteen years. Friends, it's
(03:31):
time for change, and the voters did just vote for change.
Voters across Massachusetts came out, they spoke loud and clear,
they called on their elected leaders to change the status quo.
And unfortunately, legislative leaders still have not gotten the message.
And they've actually done some work in recent weeks to
(03:53):
try to stemy the efforts of the auditor's office by
actually passing a rules change in their House of Representatives
to essentially try to signal that it's their intention to
try to replace the law essentially with their own version
(04:14):
of just hiring a private auditor. Controlling the process and
being able to decide what's examined, what's not examined, what's released,
what's not released, to be able to control the entire
scope of those audits and prevent some private firm from
being able to examine anything that they don't want them
to examine. Basically, they've been trying to state that they
(04:35):
believe that the same process they've always used is sufficient,
while friends, that's not acceptable. The voters spoke loud and clear,
so we are demanding access to what they are doing
with your tax dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So now it looks to me, and I don't know
if you can agree with me or not, that it
looks to me as if they are trying to do
since we're in the middle of the football season, sort
of an end around play. And what they're saying is
the voter spoke seventy two percent. Seventy two percent, I
mean that's like three nearly three out of four voters
(05:10):
said audit to allow the auditor to audit the legislature.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah, I think I think Duncan donuts, Tom Brady when
he was here, and auditing the legislature are the only
things that have that that amount of percentage of support.
That's pretty incredible, pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Absolutely, So now we're going to try to make sure
people understand. So what the legislature is doing. They have said, well,
even though the state constitution says that questions on the
ballot become law thirty days after the vote in Massachusetts,
and if we count the days from November fifth, this
(05:54):
law giving you the ability to audit the legislature should
now be the law of the comal. But the legislature
has said, uh huh, it should We're going to say
it's thirty days from when the Secretary of State verified
corroborated the electoral results. Is the electoral results? Is that going?
(06:17):
As I understand it, They're basically trying to stall you.
This is the old end around stall.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Play, So you are correct there trying to stall implementation
of the law that they've already signaled they have no
intention of following. So essentially what just happened over the
course of the last week, our office has been preparing
to initiate the audit that we you know, are supposed
to be conducted, that we're mandated to conduct, and that
(06:46):
is actually in effect to take place for the law.
That's an effect to take place today December fifth. November
fifth was the election today, December fifth. That law is
actually supposed to be in place. It actually is effective.
It is effective today exactly. Now, what's happening right now
(07:08):
as legislative leaders are trying to stall and they're saying, well,
that's not accurate. You know, it's thirty days from when
the question gets certified by the Governor's Council. And that's
just simply inaccurate. Dan, It's actually very clear in the
Constitution that actually says in a crystal queer fashion that
(07:28):
ballot questions regarding state law changes are to take effects
thirty days after the state election. Now, I didn't just
pull that information just from the Constitution. I actually verified
it by looking at the Secretary of State's Informational Guidebook
(07:49):
on Ballot Questions. That actually explicitly states in the secretary
of State's Guidebook that the law takes place. It doesn't
just say that it takes place thirty days after the
state election. It actually says the date in the guide book.
It says the date of December fifth, twenty twenty four,
these laws shall take effect. However, when I went to
(08:14):
go and call for the law to take effects today.
We heard a different story yesterday, unfortunately, and leaders on
Beacon Hill said that you know that now wasn't accurate
and that was what was written and the Secretary of
State's guidebook was not actually the truth, and that they
(08:36):
believe they have more time, and you know, it's just
we're at the point Dan where you know, there's so
much guest lighting going on. Something needs to be done.
People need to start standing up and calling their elected
officials and demanding that this law be followed. So if
you're listening tonight, folks, please call the Secretary of State
(08:58):
and ask for his support. Please call the Attorney General
and ask for her support. Please call the governor ask
for her to help and ensure that this becomes you know,
it's actually effective, sooner rather than later. The law is
the law today, And call every state legislator that you
can and demand that they follow the will of the people.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
So well said, we're going to take a quick break,
and when we come back, I want to explain what
I think the legislature has planned, because they have another
play that they want to run. After they stall you
for thirty days, there will be a new legislature in session,
and I think that they have another trick up their sleeves,
(09:41):
and I want to run that one by you. And
I want people to understand that you're a Democrat. You
were a Democratic state representative, you were an aid to
a Democrat in the House, you were a Democratic state representative.
You're a state senator, a Democratic state senator, and you
are elected as an auditor who happens to be a Democrat.
(10:01):
So this is not some Republican who is outnumbered badly
at the legislature. You are with the majority party and
all you want is some transparency. Sunlight is the greatest disinfectant.
But you have the legislative leadership up there which controls
their membership by doling out committee and subcommittee assignments and
(10:23):
the extra money that those individuals earn above and beyond
their base salary. And that is how the legislature stays
the legislature of Massachusetts. We're going to emphasize to people
that they need to take some action. You can do
two things. You can call tonight and support the state
auditor and let your voice be heard across the commonwealth.
(10:46):
But in addition to that, I hope you'll be willing
to call tomorrow or buttonhold your state legislator or this weekend,
whether it be your state senator or your state representative,
and say the vote has been taken. The Democrats we're
talking about on a national level, that they were concerned
that this election was about democracy, Diana, as I'm sure
(11:08):
you know, and they were concerned that the democracy was
on the ballot. Well, democracy is actually on the ballot
here in Massachusetts, and by a seventy two to twenty
eight percent margin. People say, audit the legislature. I'm going
to give our phone number, and then later on I'll
give the phone number the State House tomorrow, and let's
see what we can do to get this get this movie.
(11:29):
And some legislators have to grow some backbone and go
to the Senate president and the House Speaker and say, hey, look,
you know, the people have spoken. Members in my district
have spoken, and this could become a huge campaign issue
the next time two years from now, if indeed the people,
the will of the people is overridden. My guest is
State Auditor Diana Desauglio, who is doing a great job,
(11:53):
and it's this is not a partisan issue, this is
this is what the people want seventy two percent of
the people say, let's audit the state legislature. Let's get
it done. And by the way, if Senate, if the Speaker,
Speaker Mariano, or if the Senate President Karen Spilker, Senate
President Spilker would like to come on to the program
(12:14):
UH next week sometime and tell us why their position
is correct, they would be more than welcome. And if
they'd love to come on with the State Auditor, that
would even be better. That would be really fun. But
they won't. I guarantee you they won't. We'll take a break.
Here's the number six one seven, ten thirty six one
seven nine three one ten thirty. This is about the
(12:37):
way your money is being spent at the legislature.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
UH.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
The uditor wants to find out how it's being spent
and is it being spent properly? UH, because frankly, we
have a lot of people in need here in the Commonwealth,
and we want to make sure the money goes to
the people and the programs that are needed, UH, and
not to to particular little programs that maybe the legislature
(13:03):
doesn't really want to have people see the light of day.
That's what this is all about back on Nightside. My
name is Dan Ray. Light these lines up six point
seven four ten thirty. This is an important issue. Back
on Nightside. Now back to Dan Ray live from the
Window World Nightside.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Where are the Window World studio wheel, which, of course
is right, The windows are here in the background. Folks,
trust me on that. We're delighted to be with the
state of Auto of the Comma of Massachusetts dying in Dessaugliel.
Before we go to phone calls, which we will go to,
and I want to get to as many as we
possibly can, Madam Auditor. It seems to me what the
(13:43):
legislature would like to do. They would love to draw
you into a lawsuit so this whole issue can be
tied up in a court of law for you know,
two or three years, or they would like to when
they convene in January, try to pass some sort of
bill which overrides what the people have voted for. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
I actually, well, no, no, I don't think you're far Often.
I think the reality is is that, you know, I
would love to be able to adjudicate this matter in
a court of law, but I've already tried to sue
the legislature. The Attorney General blocked my access to a
court for my constitutionally guaranteed in partial hearing, and you know,
(14:28):
that was very unfortunate, and I really wanted to be
able to adjudicate this matter and resolve this issue at
a court of law before it was necessary to do
something like take it to the ballot. The ballot was
a lot of hard work.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
A lot of.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
People had to invest a lot of hours across Massachusetts
collecting signatures, campaigning, raising donations. It was a lot of work.
It was one of the hardest things I've ever done,
and then I think a lot of people that worked
on have ever done. But we did it right. The
reason why we had to do it, though, is because
of the legislature's refusal essentially to want to meet us
(15:09):
in court, the AG's refusal to allow us access to court.
So I actually think that legislators are scared to go
to a court of law, that their arguments are completely ridiculous.
They have said that they believe it's unconstitutional for the
Office of State Auditor to conduct an audit of the
(15:31):
state legislature, and this is being said. Then while they
simultaneously themselves conduct audits of the executive branch agencies. What
they have said is an audit for thee but not
for me. They can audit all the executive branch agencies
and they do so with their post audit and overscity
(15:55):
that literally has subpoena authority over the executive brand government.
But yet they claim that there's some constitutional separation of
powers that's one directional and only matters when the executive
branch tries to conduct an audit back. They want to
completely get out of the system of checks and balance
(16:19):
zero accountability, because it's not enough that they're exempt from
the public records law. It's not enough that they're exempt
from open meeting laws. It's not enough that they're the
most powerful politicians in Massachusetts and get to make decisions
about all of our tax dollars under a cloak of
darkness in the middle of the night, with zero accountability.
(16:39):
They want more power. So what they are doing is
they are trying to ensure that there is zero accountability
regarding what their actions are regarding the use of our
tax dollars. And I don't think that they want to
go to court to discuss this matter. I think that
they've been hiding from court. And I think that unfortunately,
Thettorney general decision to refuse to give us access to
(17:03):
court with something that legislators actually agreed with. I think
that they just are hoping that the Attorney General blocks
our access to the court system again and that they
can continue to get away with, you know, refusing to
abide by the law. And that's why I need everybody's
help to please call all of our elected officials on
(17:25):
Beacon Hell, especially our Attorney General and our governor.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Yeah, you know, let me take.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
A suggestion if I could.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I am not your lawyer. However, I'm stunned that the
Attorney General, Andrea Campbell, would prevent you, as the state auditor,
from basically attempting to win and enforce the ballot initiative
that you, the voters of Massachusetts approved on November fifth,
(17:54):
Number one, number two. There's a way in which if
Andrea Campbell is unwilling to represent you in your capacity
as state auditor, what would prevent you from going to
the Supreme Court State Supreme Court as a citizen, not
as the state auditor, but basically you and maybe I
(18:17):
don't know, a small group of other citizens, almost the
equivalent of a civil class action suit. There is a
way to get to the state Supreme Court quickly. It's
called what they call the gatekeeper statue. Most lawyers in
Massachusetts who you would talk to, would know of what
I speak. That would get you before a single justice
(18:38):
very quickly.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
And I really appreciate that, Dan, Yeah, I really appreciate that.
I actually just wanted to jump in because you're on
the right track there. But I will say it's not
me who would be doing that. I actually have already
been told that should be Attorney General not step in
(19:00):
to require compliance with the people's audit that was just
voted for that. There are organizations who are strongly considering
filing a lawsuit against the Commonwealth to demand compliance. Now, now, again,
what a shame, What a shame that would be.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, I wouldn't file it. Well, I would file it
against the Speaker and the Senate President in their in
their capacities as speakers, as Speaker and Senate President, and
also in their individual capacities as citizens of the Commonwealth.
And again there is this process called a gatekeeper statute,
which basically can streamline and get this into court very quickly,
(19:43):
and I just emphasized that you may want to at
least have some lawyers look at it. Why Andrea Campbell
would side with the legislature against a fellow constitutional officer,
who are all really members of the executive branch as
it were. You're executives, You're not a member of the governors,
(20:06):
and the governors should join you as well. Anyway, let
me do this. I'm just throwing that out at that
idea to you because I know enough about the law
to be dangerous here.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
And I'm yeah, and Dan, honestly, you're actually stating what
a lot of people have been saying. And I think,
you know, it's really important that we do realize as
elected officials that you know, the reality is is that
if people do not follow the law, that the Commonwealth
is opening itself up to lawsuits from outside groups, outside organizations,
(20:40):
outside individuals, and folks have already stated that that is
something that's an absolute possibility and that you know, they
would consider doing that. So it is definitely something that
is I think should be concerning to the attorneys unknown
to the legislative leaders, because you know, look, it's time to
(21:03):
come together, it's time to get this done. It's time
for the games to stop. This is the law. Now,
this is a serious issue to violate the law in
this way. You know, this is not some disagreement about
some random issue you know that isn't really that big
of a deal. This is a huge issue of concern
and it is a really big deal for lawmakers lawmakers
(21:24):
to violate the law. And it would be an even
bigger deal if they were violating the law to such
a capacity. You know that, you know, it actually inspired
people to sue from outside of our government, to feel
that they had to sue to get compliance. You know,
(21:44):
this should be something that's being done anyways.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they're covering
up things that they don't want the public to be
aware of. And I would just finish my comment and
then we're going to go to news and I have
full lines, Diana. So I think we've got some people
who are interested. Here, a lot of my friends, brothers
and sisters at the bar listen to this program, and
(22:07):
if anyone of you lawyers in Massachusetts who would like
to provide you with some either some advice, guidance, help
or direction, and they want to contact me tomorrow. Particularly
if they're friends of mine, I will put them in
touch with you so we can maybe anything we can
(22:27):
do to help you. Diana's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Thank you so much. Dan, I appreciate that. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I mean, you did the hard work, you walked across
the state. All you're looking for is a little bit
of transparency. It's what democracy is all about. The Democrats
have been talking about democracy now for months, saving democracy.
The Washington Post. Democracy dies in darkness. There is no
darker chambers in the state than the House of Representatives
(22:52):
and the state Senate chambers here in Massachusetts. And I'm
telling you, and you know as well as I do,
that they're going to try to run some some additional
play in early January to override what the voters of
the Commonwealth are demanding. So let's take a break, get
a few minutes for news, and I want to get
right to listeners. And I guarantee you you're going to
(23:14):
hear support from my audience, which is gonna going to
bolster your your confidence. And I'm I'm so delighted that many,
so many people are are chomping to get get to
phone lines We'll be back with my guest, the state
unor the Comwealth of Massachusetts. Uh, auditor Diana Desauglia, who
is doing a great job at the State House. And
(23:35):
I emphasize she is a Democrat. This is not some
Republican crying in the darkness. She's supported by by three
out of four voters in the election of November fifth.
Back on Nightside after.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
This, it's Night Side with.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
So I guess the state auditor, Madam monitor, Let's go
to the phones down. Kareine and Lynn. Karine welcome, you're
all with Diana the State Auditor. Go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Hi, can you hear me?
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Okay, there, we can hear you perfectly.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Karin, thank you for Is it Corina Korea? How do
you pronounce it?
Speaker 4 (24:16):
It is Kareene. However, if you chooses a Karan, I say,
just kick one and go with it, right ahead, kre
go ahead, all right, Hello State Auditor. Uh, this is ugly,
oh very nice.
Speaker 6 (24:31):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Oh, I'm wonderful, thank you. And actually, just to get
it quickly out of the way, a little bit of
a family member. We are with the vicaros.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Oh wow, yes.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Yes, so lovely. To hear you immediately caught my attention
because I listened to Dan quite often when I'm in
the car, and that's why AM radio is important as well.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I got to get you a radio for your house, Caren.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
And I do tell Alexa, but I can't say her
name too often because she'll turn everything on, you know,
But just to quickly, I have five or six subjects,
I won't pick them all. I have called you in
the past, man, I am an auditor, or was an
auditor myself for the federal government with the VA, and
we used to conduct our own internal audits UH for
(25:26):
what they call vera veterans ectimal resource Allocation because ninety
percent of funding would come from UH Congress and about
five percent was actually billing UH for not Medicare. He
couldn't build for another government agency, but for other you know,
(25:46):
if they.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Had want to.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I want to get you to our topic at hand, he.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Tell you. So we wouldn't conduct our own internal audits.
And now what I'm trying what I'm getting from this
because there was a lot of conversation that both of
you had, but it sounded like you were saying, there's
like a unilateral audit that they're conducting already, and that's
what they're saying, is efficient enough? Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (26:11):
They all audit on them on themselves, the conduct the
audit on themselves, and what the auditor wants to do
is to be able to do what she is obligated
to do constitutionally, as her title suggests, State auditor.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Now, now, even the what they're doing unilaterally their own audit,
are they publishing that? Is that available to see? Also?
And yes, of course I was one of the ones
who you know, of the seventy two percent that voted yes,
But is that even published like to see? Is that? Grin?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Thank you so so much for calling in. I can
clear up a couple of these things. So essentially what's
going on is the state legislature has chosen to audit themselves.
They hire a private firm, and they control the entire
scope of that audit, which means they decide what they
allow that audit firm to see. They decide what is
(27:11):
chosen regarding what is actually audited. So they limit the
information that they provide to that auditing firm, and then
they release only what they want to release to the
general public. That auditing firm has zero right to release
any information that they find in those documents or anything
that they're examining without the Speaker of the House or
(27:34):
the Senate president's approval, because they are privately contracted with
private vendor, so they have to abide by the rules
of the Senate and the rules of the House of Representative,
which means the legislature is essentially auditing themselves. Yes, they
are hiring someone to do it, but they're controlling every
(27:55):
aspect of what is looked at and what is released
to the public, which is precious living. Their last release
of some sort of a supposed audit was only a
few pages with very high level information, no financial receipts attached,
no documentation, nothing regarding any state contracting. So there are
(28:18):
a lot of concerns that there are potential unlawful behaviors occurring.
And essentially what has happened is the voters went and
the voters said that's not sufficient. We want the Office
of State Auditor to conduct audits of the legislature, just
like they conduct of every other state entity. Because the
(28:39):
Auditor's office is the independent voice of the people. It
is an independently elected position. The people of the Commonwealth
choose the auditor. That is why, you know, during my campaign,
I told people I am the people's auditor. I audit
on behalf of the people. The people are the boss
of the Auditor's office as a constitutional office. So it's
(29:02):
really important that those independent audits take place by the
State Auditor's Office of all the departments and entities of
the Commonwealth to make sure that there's a system of
checks and balances and that there is accountability. I hope
that helps tonight, Karen, and I hope you have a
great evening.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
We'll call your legislators tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
I will, I will. Can I just ask one more thing?
Speaker 5 (29:24):
Will please?
Speaker 2 (29:25):
And I hate to do this year. I'm up on
my break and I got five other calls behind you.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Oh. I just wanted to know what did we do
before the lottery? Where did money come from before that?
That's all I wanted to ask.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
There is so much sad that one for.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
The next time, because I think they raised taxes. The
funds from the lottery essentially is an additional revenue source
that people participate in voluntarily in. About eighty percent of
it goes back in prizes and twenty percent goes back
to cities and towns. Thanks Karin, I got to keep
rolling here. Thank you very much, keep calling this. Coming
(30:00):
right back on Nightside with State Auditor my guest Diana Desoglio.
Now back to Dan Ray, live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. Here, folks have
pack lines. The auditor will be staying with us until ten,
so let's try to move as quickly as we can.
I want to hear people say that they'll they support
(30:21):
what she's doing and that she's going to that you
will be calling your legislators tomorrow or button holding them
this weekend somewhere in the district dev in Boston, Hey Dev,
thanks for calling it. You almost stayed. Auditor Diana Dezakio go.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Right ahead yesterday evening, Thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I wanted to just comment the fact that the voters.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Voted in a favor of this. My question is what
are is the legislates you're afraid of?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
This is what this just draws suspicions there in their area.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
I don't understand it.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, they voted seventy I mean you know that's us.
That's what's called a big landslide. Do you want to
give them. Give deb a quick response as to what
you think they're afraid of. They're afraid of. Transparency is
what they're afraid of.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Go ahead, Diana dev thank you. Thank you so much
Sep for calling in. I really appreciate the question. Look,
you know, I'll respond to your question with a question.
If your house is really dirty, do you invite and
welcome people in? Or is it when your house is
clean do you invite people in? You invite people in
(31:34):
when your house is clean. If you have a really
messy house, you know it's it's not a time when
you want to invite people in. So frankly, you know,
the pushback and the vehement opposition is really something to
be deeply concerned about, because to your point, if there
is nothing to hide, then open the doors, let the sunlight.
(31:54):
And you know, we look into every state entity and
it is very often that we find challenges. That's what
the Auditor's Office does. We identify challenges so that we
can promote solutions. When we audited DCF, we did so
to help protect children and we were able to identify
challenges for the purposes of making the Department of Children
and Families work better for children across our communities. When
(32:17):
we look at MBTA and we audit our state's MBTA,
we do so to help our transportation system work better.
And you know, folks know, we need a lot of
work in that department. So every bit that we can
do to help by examining areas where we can fill
gaps in the system, you know, we need to be
doing that. So if folks are afraid to allow the
(32:39):
light to shine in and they want to remain in darkness,
folks need to be concerned about that. If there's nothing
to hide, then open the doors and let the sunlight in.
If you didn't do anything wrong on purpose, then you
should be willing to have the auditor's office look at
some potential solutions for some of the challenges facing your organization.
(33:02):
Nobody's perfect. Humans work in organizations, and again, we generally
find areas of concern wherever we go and conduct audits.
That's normal. So to refuse an audit really suggests that
there are some significant challenges, uh, and that there are
some some some concerns. So you know, folks do need
to call their legislators. Thank you for the question, Thanks absolutely,
(33:25):
And I think that I got.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Three more I'm trying to sneak in here. Deb. I
really appreciate your supporting this one, but I got to
get to the other callers. I got to give everybody
a minute or two.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
Okay, thank you, absolutely, thank you, thank you, Deb.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I really appreciate your next very thanks to Bill in
the on the North Show. BILLI, youare next on nice
side with State Auditor Diana Disgli. You've got to be
quick from me. Bill. I know you've been waiting a while,
but I got two behind your career hair.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Okay, I'm going to leave. I'm going to try to
say two things. Number One, I called the uh my
state rep. Senators and so forth. I have to say
to you quite frankly, and the auditor might know better.
It's virtually a waste of time. What you need, in
my opinion, is maybe you talked about suing unfortunately, but
you need to get somebody's attention because they do not care.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
The problem is this, here's the problem power.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Okay, so let me say it. Let me say it.
Get the Feds in here, somebody.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Bill, Bill that I don't know if that happens. Bill,
You've got to understand the system for the FEDS to
come in. They have to come in on their own.
Diana Desauglio doesn't have the standing, nor do I, nor
do you to call the feds up and say, hey,
go audit the legislature.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I want to saying it like that. But you can
get we have They represent us too. They have a
right to call whoever you want.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
When you come on my show and say it's a
waste of time to call the state, the state reps
and the state senators, you're defeating what my purpose is
here tonight. I want pressure to go on these state
reps and these state senators, and I want them to
go to Mariano and to Spilka and say, look, I'm
not with you on this. You know this. This is
that's what we need to do politically.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Let me give you just one example. Please, let me
give you one example.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I'll kind you one minute.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Go ahead, Thank you, I appreciate it. I have waited
a while.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Let's take to other people behind you by the way, bill.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Go ahead, Okay, I'm gonna make it quick if you
let me do it.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
As an example, you've been in this state a long time.
I've been here my whole life. Let's go back to
COVID for a second, that timeline. How serious people are
on their backs. What did the legislature do? It was
on the front page of the Herald. I don't know
about the Globe, probably not, but the Herald they put
in a well, I think it was a six point
(35:40):
two raise. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. And a bill.
You know what you're doing here. You're a guy in
the locker room who was saying to us, we can't
beat those guys. Let's stay in the locker room. No,
stay in the locker room. I don't believe it's stayed
out of the locker room build up. Appreciate your call.
Let me go to Paul in Montster. Paul your next
night's I'm glad.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
Yeah, damn mad a monitor. Thanks thanks for taking the call.
I'm pressuring our legislatives. It's really the only good option.
It's still a fascinating issue. It's also a national embarrassment. Now.
I don't even like ballot questions. You know, you have
somewhat uninformed voters voting on complex public policy. You have
(36:25):
campaigns on both sides that build up around these questions.
I always think I've always thought in a way that
the Constitution should be changed to do away with ballid questions. Well,
this whole issue is getting me to rethink that. So
I got one other and I.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Think is easily understandable. And seventy two percent of the
people said let the sunshine in. You're absolutely right, Paul.
Speaker 6 (36:48):
Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing a three almost three quarters
of the voters to agree on this. I mean, it's
kind of a no brainer. It's this is a fascinating,
a fascinating issue, and it is a national embarrassment. But
I'll look at you. I'll just leave it. I'll leave
it there. Go take your last caller, and happy holidays everybody.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Merry Christmas, Happy Honka, whatever you celebrate. I appreciate it. Paul,
you've bet one of the better callers in the night.
Let me go next to Mike and Newton. Mike, we
got about a minute for you. I know you've waited
a long time.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Go right ahead, that's okay, I can be quick, Hi,
dav Hey, No, what are they hiding? I think I
think that raises the red flag as soon as they
say we don't want it on it.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
What are they hiding?
Speaker 5 (37:28):
It's similar to the Massachusetts State Police. What are they
hiding about the recruit out there? And it goes on
and on and on with match Massachusetts government.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
I'm with you totally on both of those counts, On
both of those counts, Mike, I appreciate it. Please, will
you call your legislators tomorrow? Uh? And I hope everyone
in this audience will call the main number at the
State House. Pretty simple number to remember. It is six
one seven seven to two two thousand. If you tell
that person what town you live in, I'll direct you
(38:00):
to your legislator. Let's overwhelm them with phone calls tomorrow.
And let's you know, the state audit, who is working
for everyone here in Massachusetts, certainly for the seventy two percent,
the twenty eight percent who might have voted the other way,
probably other people, you know, the relatives of the stuff.
Legislator says, Thanks Mike, thanks so much.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
Merry Christmas.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Merry Christmas to you as well, Diana, thank you, thank you,
thank you for your efforts in your time. I will
always fight alongside you. And as I say, when someone
tells me we can't win, that's like being in a
in a locker room and saying let's not play the
game because we can't win. That you lost before you start,
so I know you agree with me. Let's let's beat him.
(38:45):
Let's beat them.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
At their own game, you know, Dan, I just want
to say thanks so much for having me on, and
thanks to every caller who called in. Let's stay inspired,
let's stay hopeful, Let's call anyways, let's email anyways. You know,
Let's make sure that we are lifting our voices and
standing in unity. You know, I often say this, Dan,
(39:08):
You talk about how I'm a Democrat and when I
come on and I join you, you know, and I
have to say this. It is wonderful to also then
hear you follow it up with the fact that this
is not a Democrat or Republican issue. I, as state auditor,
audit all of these state entities, you know, regardless of
party affiliation. And the reality is is that this bullet
question passed only because people were willing to cross party lines,
(39:32):
work together with one another, and take on the power
structure up on Beacon Hill, who is for far too
long gotten away with not just shenanigans, but violating the
law that they require everybody else to follow. So really,
It's going to take all of us being consistent, continuing
to be determined, and continuing to come together, inspiring one another,
(39:57):
end uplifting one another to do the right thing, to
make sure that these folks are held accountable. You know,
we deserve access to how our tax dollars are being spent.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Not a heavy lift.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Let's get it done.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I'm into my ten o'clock news, but I will just
tell you this, I will have you back anytime. I
still have a couple of weeks more left on the
ear in the here. I'm busy in the next two
weeks and then I start right after the first of
the year. I'll have you back, and I'll have you
back soon. Please think.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Thanks so much, everybody, have a great night. Everybody call
your elected officials. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Thanks, Thanks, Diana, appreciate it so much. We're a little
bit late, we're into the newscast, but it's well worth it.
Thank you, Rob for that generous generosity of your time.
Back on night's side, we're going to talk about that
murder in New York. On the other side,
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