December 9, 2024 • 39 mins
We began our program with our special annual College Admissions Panel! We were joined by Deans of Admission at Harvard University, William Fitzsimmons and at Boston College, Grant Gosselin. Both Deans answered questions about getting into college, the SATs, paying tuition, the application process, what colleges are looking for in prospective students, and so much more! If you are a student, parent or guardian looking for insight into how the college application process works, this is your opportunity to speak directly to the Deans of Admission at two of the country’s most prestigious academic institutions!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBS, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And thank you, Emma.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I like your energy. I hope I can match it
for the next four hours.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
My name is Dan Rey. Yeah, I amma. How are you?
I'm good? Are you? I'm doing great? You sound great,
you sound great.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
You're filling in tonight for Nicole, but I'll tell you
you did a great job.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So thanks much. Thank you for the intro. All right,
we'll talk soon. Hope to see you soon.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Well, good evening, everyone, welcome and in we start another
full week of Nightside. Be here with you all week long,
Monday through Friday. I am delighted tonight to do a
program that we've done once a year now for this
is our eighteenth annual college Admissions Panel. I think this
is a critically important program for everyone who listens to Nightside,
(00:54):
and I hope we've mentioned this and promoted this enough
so that if you're a parent or a grand or
betty at a student in high school thinking about applying
to college.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We have two.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Legendary emissions directors with us tonight. I'm going to start
off with Grant Goslin. He's the dean of Undergraduate and
mission Singular and Financial Aid at Boston College. Grant has
been with us now for several years. He succeeds John Mahoney,
who has retired, but in the meantime also was the provo.
(01:29):
You've always had great, big shoes to fill, Grant, but
you're doing a fabulous job.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
This is your fourth or fifth year with us. Maybe
maybe it's a little more tell us, tell us how
many years you've been with us doing this.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
You know it's been a few. It's good to be
back with you, Dan. I really appreciate the opportunity to
engage with you and your listeners tonight.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, I'll tell you you admissions folks, men and women
do great work. I know that that Bill Fitzsimmons, who's
also with us tonight and is going to be participating
in his eighteenth panel. First one we did was two
(02:08):
thousand and seven. Bill Fitzsimmons is the Harvard College Dean
of Admissions and Financial Aid. Bill fitz Simmons, welcome back.
You've had a legendary career from being a student and
an athlete at Harvard and have worked in admissions there
for I'm not going to say how many years, but
(02:31):
it's been a few decades and you're a legendary person
across the country. So thanks so much for coming back
for year eighteen. Bill fitz Simmons, how are you tonight.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Well, thank you, and thank you again for your commitment
to higher education for all these years, and thanks to
Amma for giving us that energy for us to have
another great show. Because when you think about what's happened
in over those eighteen years and how higher education has
become much more critical in lots of different ways for
(03:04):
people in America around the world, it also, at the
same time, things that are happening not just at BC
but at Harvard, but even on the newscast, you know,
things that are happening in the state of Massachusetts with
community colleges and junior colleges. And it's always good for
us to remember that about eighty percent of the students
(03:28):
who go to college in the United States go to
public universities. And it's also good just to remember that
as you step back from it all, most of the
rest of the world sees America's higher education institutions as
the gold standard. So there's a lot for us to
(03:48):
live up to. But there's an awful lot going on
just in this state alone. That makes me very optimistic
for the future.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, both of you, like you just to give some
folks an idea, this is the busy season. Well every
year is that? Every time of years of busy seasons?
For an admission dean or admissions director Bill fitz Simmons,
give me an idea about you at Harvard. You actually
(04:19):
go out and seek out people for admissions and application
to Harvard University. You're out finding people. How many states
in your career in the last few years have you
traveled to just basically tell people in different parts of
the country about higher education and about Harvard University.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Well, and I think you've got the order write a
whole idea as we go out across the country and
across the world is to talk about the value of
higher education. But even before we get there, not everybody
has to go to college. What everybody has, I hope,
an ambition to do is to make the best of
(05:02):
their talents, you know, whatever they might be and wherever
those talents might lead. We go out with four or
five different travel groups every year around the United States
and around the world, and you know, we hit over
a two or three year period, we hit every state
in the US. And you know, we're also doing a
(05:24):
lot now virtually, so we're doing things with Zoom recruiting
across the country and around the world. And you know,
when you think about you were speculator, and you and
I are pretty much contemporaries, Dan as you know, both
college goaltenders back in our days most successful.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I cannot compare to what you did at Harvard. So
I'm embarrassed.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Well, we all tried to do exactly the same thing.
And I think I've been in admission since nineteen seventy two,
been at Harvard since nineteen sixty three, and it's incredible
to me. I mean, the Harvard I attended was four
to one male to female. Now there are slightly more
women than men. There were very few first generation college
(06:15):
students like me at Harvard at that time, and now
over twenty percent of Harvard students of first gen and
about twenty percent of Hell grant recipients. There were very
few students of color in my era, and today there
are many. The idea is that there is talent everywhere,
(06:39):
but honestly, opportunity is not possible. It's not there for
a lot of people in the same degree as it
is for others. So the whole idea is to make
sure we get word out to talented students everywhere literally
this country and other countries that they have an opportunity
(06:59):
to developed their talents. That's that's the idea, And they
don't have to end up at one of our universities.
But the whole idea, we hope is that they'll end
up making the most of their own talents. But these
places have changed.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Over half the students at Harvard now are on need
based financial aid. We're spending two hundred and sixty million
dollars a year right now on undergraduate financial aid. And
as I grew up in Weymouth, we ran a gas
station and a mom and pop store, and I was
lucky enough to get to Archbishop Williams and then eventually
(07:35):
to Harvard. But I will say it's a world. Harvard
and BC have changed in remarkable ways over this period
of time, and we will get even better, we hope,
in the years ahead.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well I'll tell you again. I just want you to know.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
If anyone who knows Fitz Simmons was great goaltender at Harvard,
my nickname in Boston State was redline. So we'll leave
that part of the conversation all from now. Nothing to
compare Grant. I want to come back to you. BC
has in the last fifty years really transformed itself tremendous leadership.
(08:14):
How many applications is Boston College receiving for how many
spots these days? It's very competitive.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
It has become Dan, you know, you're right. The last
fifty years have really been I think the modern story
for Boston College. We were founded back in eighteen sixty
three and at the time were really charged with educating
the sons of immigrants that were left a few educational
opportunities at the time, and we were largely a regional
(08:45):
institution for most of our history up until the early
nineteen seventies when we were facing some pretty significant financial headwinds,
and the leadership at the time, Father Monan and succeeded
by Father Lay He had really put Boston College on
a course for growth regionally, but then nationally and internationally
(09:07):
as well. We receive somewhere between thirty five and forty
thousand applications a year. We're looking for an entering class
of about twenty four hundred students, you know, and just
as Bill said, you know, our task is really about
how do we reach students wherever they are to help
(09:28):
them think about college as an option. As Bill said,
not everyone will desire to go to college, but we
hope that students are at least thinking about that as
an option. And the reality is high schools across the
country and around the world are not all the same,
They're not all provided the same resources, and there are
students that just don't have the wherewithal of their knowledge
(09:51):
to really get out there and understand the opportunities that
are available to them. And so it's our job to
make sure that as we get out in the road,
we're not only visiting schools that routinely send us applicants
each year, you know, feeder schools if you will, but
that we're we're making sure that we're attending schools that
are are opportunist, opportunistic schools for us, those where we
(10:15):
see great potential but we just haven't seen the application
volume yet. We work really hard to get into both
private and public high schools, to work with community based
organizations that that really fill the gap around college counseling
at at many underfunded public high schools where you know,
(10:35):
if you look in the state of California, for example,
there there are nine hundred students in a public high
school to every one school counselor, and that school counselor
is not earmarked as a college counselor. There they're truancy officers,
their academic advisors, their mental health counselors, and they also
do a little bit of college counseling. And so community
(10:56):
based organizations are an opportunity for colleges to pair up
with nonprofits that are really filling that gap and providing
students with access to information about colleges. And you know,
Bills Team and mine, you know, we're out there really
trying to make sure that students understand that opportunity is there.
And just like Harvard, you know, Boston College is also
(11:19):
deeply committed to need based financial aid and making sure
that every student who qualifies has the funds they need
to be able to accept the offer of admission.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
We're talking about two admissions directors. Bill Fitzimmons Harvard College
is Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid. You've just heard
Grant Goslin, the Dean of Undergraduate Admission and Financial aid
at Boston College. I have a lot of questions. I'm
sure people in our audience does, and I'm hoping that
there are students out there tonight who are embarking on
(11:52):
this on this search, this search for the right school,
for the school that best fits their need, their talent.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
We want to talk.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
About the difference between SAT exams and ACT exams, the
importance of high school grades, teacher recommendations, essays that students
might might might be asked to write about themselves, all
sorts of questions about FAFTSA, which is that Federal Aid
(12:22):
for Student Loan Applications, which now I think there's been
some hiccups on that this year, so we have I
have a lot of questions, but I hope all of
you out there, whether your parents, grandparents, students do not
hesitate six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six seven, nine, three, one,
ten thirty. Those are the two ways to get through.
I'll try, We'll try to get to as many of
(12:43):
you as possible, I promise, but you have to do
your part in that style.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
In My name is Dan Ray. This is Nightside.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Really appreciative of the time that Bill Fitzimmons and Grant Goslin,
Bill of Harvard, granted BC. The admissions directors at both
of those great institutions will spend with us tonight. This
is their high season there in the process of formulating
acceptances which will be sent out. I'm sure early admissions
will be coming out probably by the end of the month,
(13:09):
and then the other admissions will be out. They're still
they're reading, reading, reading, It's a gargantuan, humongous, herculean task,
and for them to take some time for us tonight,
it's really very much appreciated. Back on Night's Side as
we conduct our eighteenth annual college Admissions panel.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Nightside Studios on w b Z the News Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
This is our eighteenth annual college admissions panel. This is
an opportunity for you, whether you're a student, a parent, grandparent,
or family friend, to speak directly with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard,
Grant Goslin of Boston College. It is their staff which
decides who's accepted and who isn't. But more importantly, we
want to try to guide you. We're not just talking
(13:57):
about Harvard or BC tonight. Of course, two of the
pre eminent schools here in the Boston area. But talking
about other issues, So let me start off with again,
assuming that the student is interested in going to college,
and there are a lot of successful people who never
apply to college. They get out in their own in
their own business or in the military or whatever, and
they're very successful people. How important would you say high
(14:22):
school grades are? I know students focus on the Scholastic
Aptitude test, whether it's the SAT or the ACT.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But give us a quick review.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Bill will start with you, maybe on the importance of
the marathon of the four years in high school compared
to that one day performance on the SAT or the ACTS.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Well, I think you've pretty well summed it up in
introducing the question doing well on a day to day
basis in anything. It's the foundation, you know, for any
kind of achievement or excellent. So let's, you know, let's
start out with doing well in each and every subject.
(15:06):
We hope as you go through the process, if you're
not so lucky to be in a school that is
offering absolute top academic opportunities, there are things available and
for example, in con academy sort of free free test prep,
(15:27):
but also free ideas on how to study different subjects
as you're going through high school. So let's start with that,
and I want I turn the next step having to
do with standardized tests, probably over to you Grant.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Yeah, sure, Bill. You know, I think the environment around
standardized test has changed a lot in recent years. I
think over the last thirty or forty years, there have
been a small number of colleges that have offered test
optional admission plan that tended to grow a bit through
the two thousands, the twenty tens, but really when the
(16:06):
pandemic hit in twenty twenty, in the next cycle, after
the pandemic hit, many colleges and universities realized that test
centers were closed and students really didn't have access to
take advantage of testing. If a student could take an exam,
they were doing so under duress, right if the student
(16:27):
behind them was coughing, they were wondering, you know, might
they get sick next? And so I think there was
a huge shift coming out of the pandemic where the
vast majority of colleges, even those that had not previously
been test optional, moved into that environment. And then once
the pandemic subsided, and you know, we moved into a
(16:49):
different state. Things have begun to evolve again, right, And
there are some schools that have re implemented testing, others
that you know, still remain test optional. But what test
scores have done is they've allowed colleges and universities to
understand student performance in context, both nationally and globally. Where
(17:10):
high school curriculums can vary so widely, it can be
difficult sometimes to really understand a student's strength and potential,
and test scores can do that. There is a predictive
element to them. Boston College is an institution that remains
test optional, though this year we have added a recommendation
(17:31):
to students that if they have scores, we're recommending that
they submit them because they again do provide some additional context,
an additional opportunity for us to advocate for a student.
And honestly, during the test optional time that we went through,
there were a lot of students that really struggled with
(17:52):
whether to submit scores. They looked at a mid fifty
percent range that a school might provide and they said, well,
I'm in the middle fifty percent of that range, right,
And so there were students opting not to submit scores
when they were scoring in the ninety seventh or ninety
eighth percentile nationally, but in their mind, if they weren't
above that fifty percent range, they weren't competitive. And that's
(18:13):
really not how we make decisions. Test scores are when
they're used, they're one factor of many that provide again,
another data element for us to make informed decisions.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Again, it is a complex process and it can be
a daunting process. And what we're trying to do tonight
with Bill fitz Simmons and Grant Goslin, Bill from Harvard
for many years, granted at Boston College, is to kind
of demystify some of this. There's all sorts of other
topics that I want to ask them about. But when
we get back, we're going to start with phone calls.
And as far as I'm concerned, we can go phone
(18:46):
calls for as long as you want to keep the
phones ringing six one set, well, not the entire night,
that's for sure, But the gentlemen have committed to an hour,
and if the phone calls persist, I think we might
be able to convince Steven a little longer. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,
thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty. My
name is Dan Ray. I'm just a host of the show.
(19:08):
I'm I'm learning and continue to learn. Every time that
we've had one of these college admissions panels, there are
a whole bunch of topics that I have questions on.
Don't rely upon me to ask you a question, though,
because I might just not think of it, and you're
thinking of it right now.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Give us a call.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Coming back on Nightside with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard and
Grant Goslin of Boston College. They are both the top
guys in the admission department. The titles are similar. Harvard
College Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, Grant Goslin, Dean
of Undergraduate Admission and Financial Aid.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Back on night.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Side, calls and questions and students out there pick up
that fall. We want to hear from you, most importantly.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
With Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
We have not even scratched the surface, but we have
with us the eighteenth Annual College Admissions Paneled. Bill Fitzsimmons,
Harvard College Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, and Grant Goslin,
Dean of Undergraduate Admission and Financial Aid.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
At Boston College.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Now gonna get right to phone calls, and as I say,
rule it will take him as many as we can.
No begging, no pleading, only getting. This is a wonderful
opportunity for you to reach either Bill Fitzsimmons or Grant Gostlin.
So let's go first off to Joy. What a great name.
Joy is in the great state of New York. Joy,
(20:33):
Welcome to night Side. You're al with Bill Fitzsimmons and
Grant Goslin. Go right ahead.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
Oh, gentlemen, thank you so much for taking my call.
Please don't make fun of my accent. I'm from Long Island,
New York. You're gonna you're gonna love my name, all right.
I'm glad you like my name because I purposely married
a guy who's last name Robin my first name. So
I'm actually Joy Mouley. Okay, that's easy to You can't
(20:59):
make that at So my question is, gentlemen, thanks again
for doing this. It's super insightful for parents like me. Grant.
I am a very proud Boston College alum class of
ninety four. Boston College gave me a chance in life.
I'm first generation college and you know, not having parents
(21:21):
who went to college. I don't know what I did
on my application to have BC accept me. I can
tell you that if I had to apply today, with
my SAT scores and my grades, I highly doubt BC
would accept me as a student. My question is I
hear a lot from parents where their kid is a valedatorian,
a fludatorian. They've got exceptional grades like four point six GPAs,
(21:45):
and they discovered the cure for cancer, and they have
like remarkable resumes, but they don't get into the colleges
that they want to get into. So for a parent
like me, I encourage my kids to excel, but I
also don't want to kill themselves either getting the grades
and the scores. How do you all look at an application?
Do you look at it holistically? Is it in their essays? Like,
(22:08):
what do you guys you know, really look at I mean,
I know greeves and SATs are important, but let's say,
for example, that they do well in school, but their
SATs are alton on the weak side no matter how
many times they take it. You know, is there is
there a strategy? Is there a recipe for how you
look at the application?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Okay, let's let's start off with Grant, we're not going
to cut you off. We're going to get a reaction
from Bill fitz Simmons too, But since you're a VC,
since you're an Eagle, we'll start off with Grant Goslin
with this question. Go ahead, Grant.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Well, Joy, it's nice to meet you. Thanks so much
for calling in. Always good to meet a fellow b
C alum. Thanks for your question. You know, this process
is is stressful and it is challenging. Of course. You know,
we institutions like those that Bill and I represent are
really in a fortunate position where we have applicant pools
(22:58):
that are really full of students that impress us as
we work through their applications. You know, each each student
we look at, we're looking at a whole host of things.
And you mentioned holistic admission and absolutely both our institutions.
I certainly can let Bill talk about how things work
(23:19):
at Harvard, but you know, at Boston College where we're
starting with the transcripts, and as we talked about in
the last segment, if students submit scores, we're going to
look at those as well. But the reality is that
at the most selective institutions, there's a difference between being
being qualified and being competitive, right, And most of our
(23:41):
applicants are qualified, right. They could come to our institutions
and do very well and graduate and be quite successful
in life. But I've always explained that it's the applicant pool,
not the admission office, that sets our selectivity, right. And
if students elect to enter the field of a highly
selective admission process, they're taking on a bit of risk.
(24:05):
And you know, we are going to be doing our
best to make sure that as we craft our class,
we're bringing forward students from a wide range of backgrounds.
You mentioned being a first generation college student, you know
that was given a chance. And I think both of
our institutions are really proud of the work that we
continue to do at providing an opportunity for access to
(24:27):
students whose families didn't have that opportunity before them. We're
proud members of an organization on this quest Bridge, which
is a national nonprofit that works to match first generation
and low income students with top universities, and we enroll
over one hundred students a year through that program. And
so we're balancing opportunities like that with going after students
(24:50):
that might come from schools that do have really strong
track records of sending students to universities like ours. But
you know, there isn't a formula. We're looking at after
those objective criteria very much, how that student has engaged
in their community, their school community, their local community, how
(25:13):
they may have wrote about areas of interest or backgrounds
or experiences that they've had that we believe would enrich
our communities as we're bringing them into to Boston College.
So I wish I could tell you there was a formula,
but there isn't. Our decisions are made after really close
(25:36):
consideration of both objective and subjective criteria.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Bill at Simmons, let's get a little view from across
the river to Joy's issues.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Well, I think Grant summed it up well. But that's
you know, a simple way to think about it. And
by the way, Joey, I am thrilled to hear yet
another first gen success story such as yours. And you know,
I all I can say is that as we were
running our gas station and convenience store in Weymouth and
(26:06):
thinking about what we might do in the future, I
had three siblings, all of us you know, decided various
ways that we wanted to head off to college. I
was lucky enough to have one sibling go to Yale
who knew another one go to stone Hill, and yet
another to Boston College, and we all had great experiences.
(26:29):
I think the way to think about it, especially over
to say the fifty year period, is that one of
the great success stories, among other things over fifty years
in college admissions, is the fact that so many women
now are applying to college, which was not the case before.
As I said initially, and one of the reasons it
(26:51):
is a bit more difficult to get into college now.
Is a good thing in the sense that people from
many different backgrounds who might not previous generations have applied
to college are now applying. And the other really great thing,
and you can see it right here in the Boston area,
is that there are so many great choices, public and private.
(27:14):
We sometimes forget that. You know, we are living on
what the world calls the America's college town, and this
is a you know, there are forty five institutions of
higher education in the immediate area, and if you look
even beyond the institutions of higher education, this area is
(27:36):
the best in the world right now. If anyone interested
in the applied life sciences. When you look at higher education,
you look at the hospitals, look at the research possibilities.
This is an amazing place to go to college. And
the fact is that seventy percent of Americans will end
(27:56):
up going to college within fifty miles of their homes.
That's been for quite a while, and most ninety percent
will go within five hundred miles of their home. So
there are so many great possibilities. And the way we
make our choices is that we look at as Grant suggested,
(28:18):
we look at the entire person. We call the whole person,
and we'll look at academic accomplishments. We'll look also at
extracurricular accomplishments, things that you do to help around the home,
things that you might do in work possibilities, as we
did in the gas station and store, and we lived
(28:38):
right across the street, so we had plenty of opportunity
to do that. But we're also trying to figure out
of all these you know, mostly fully qualified students who apply,
who might make the biggest contribution to the fellow classmates
into the faculty during college, and then what kind of
contribution they'll make to the world later on and you know,
(29:02):
this is there about fifty of us and it's a
one person, one vote, and we put everything up on
a screen for everybody to see and discuss and then vote.
But I think we do exactly what you would do
if you go back and even just think about your
own high school and you could admit a relatively small
(29:24):
number of students from your high school to spend four
years together in an educational environment. Whom would you choose?
Where you just take the ones with the highest test
scores and grades. Probably not, although you'd factor that those
those variables in, but you'd look way beyond that. And
I think that's what colleges do, and that's really what
(29:48):
a great private sector organization will do as well. Look
at everything, look at all the talents.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Joy. I hope that that covers the waterfront for you. Okay,
thank you so.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
Much, Thank you so much, y'all, have a good night.
Take care.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Where's your daughters first choice? Joy?
Speaker 6 (30:06):
If I could ask, well, I mean she grew up
with you know, BC merch as they say, and into
the BC Women's hockey games and she plays hockey, so
you know, but she would not turn down an offer
from Harvard either. I'm also glad of the Columbia University.
I have five degrees, and I cannot stress enough the
(30:28):
chance that they took on me having, you know, not
the greatest academics. But BC was really my starting point,
my my my bounce into five years later being accepted
into Columbia for graduate school and moving on. And I
worked on Wall Street. I was an investigative reporter. I'm
now a doctor of vacupuncture with my own practice, and
(30:51):
BC gave me the foundation to really realize what I
wanted to be. So I am living proof that if
you give someone a chance to excel, chances are they'll
do it. I had the right tools and I'm forever
grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
All Right, well, thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Best of luck with your daughter and your and whatever
out of the children are replying.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Thanks Joan, thanks for listening to that.
Speaker 6 (31:10):
Thanks have a good night. Take care you too, have
a great night.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
We'll take very quick break back with Bill Fitzimmons of
Harvard and Grant Gostlin of Boston College right after this.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Let's go next to Sam is An Everett. Sam, you
were next on Nightside with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard, Grant
Gostlin and Boston College.
Speaker 7 (31:34):
Go right ahead, good eating gentlemen. How are you.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
They're doing great? Sam? What's your comment or question?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Uh?
Speaker 7 (31:42):
Comment in a question? I am a high school dropout.
I'm from Boston. I live in Michigan Hill. I ended
up going to Roxbury Community College. I was a single father.
I raised my son on my own. I went to RCC,
and then I applied to a number of school was
accepted by all of them except for Harvard. Ended up
(32:05):
at Amorous College out in the AMers, Massachusetts. Came back
to Boston, went to law school or a practicing lawyer
here in the city. I dedicated at least two hundred
hours a year of non billable pro bowl work for
underserved folks. And as I'm sure the Kale knows, community
(32:25):
college is now free in Massachusetts. And I have two
part question. The first part of the question is how
much outreach do each of your institutions do respect to
drawing from the community college pool. And the other question
I have is and it's a concern that I have
(32:46):
seems to me that community colleges are becoming more and
more trade schools and not focusing on liberal acts and
creating thinkers. There seem to be designed. It seems that
their mission has become to help people get you know,
respectable jobs, but not move on to the next step,
(33:09):
to go to go to for your school, to get
a higher degree.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I think they got the question and just hold on, Sam.
I want to give them each a chance to jump
in here. Bill, why don't you start this one place.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
I'm sorry, okay, one of the Sam. You've had quite
an educational journey and you probably know more at the
ground level about you know, what is happening in the state,
about the projection that people can be on, you know,
depending on which avenues they take. We have about a
(33:47):
ninety eight percent graduation rate, and honestly, very few people
drop out, so we only have a limited number of
spaces available for transfers. But I will tell you whenever
we see good possibility of you know, whether it's bunker
Hill Community College or Roxbury CC or any of the
others around and about, they would certainly get a lot
(34:10):
of attention in our pool. It's a even on the
newscast coming in tonight, your your point was made, you know,
that there's been a great, great thing that's happened this
year this you know, twenty percent increase in students going,
you know, to community colleges in state, and that's got
(34:33):
to be good long term for the health of the
state in terms of developing the full talents of the
people in the state in a way perhaps that's never
been done before.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Sure, but a great quick comment, Grant, is it comment
in here as well? Quick Grant?
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Yes, Sam, thanks so much for calling in for and
for your question. You know, I think this the second
part of it was, you know, a comment about preparing
students for trades or preparing students for jobs, And unfortunately,
I don't think that's limited to the community colleges. I
think the many in the public view, even for your institutions,
(35:13):
as almost a means to an end. And I think
you're right that we're losing the opportunity to really educate
students about the value of the liberal arts, to be
free thinkers, to be problem solvers, to deal with ambiguity,
all the things that a strong liberal arts education that
students might find at our institutions and so many other places,
(35:36):
I think is a critical part of education. We at
BC are really trying to also help students that might
be thinking about a two year path. We just opened
last year on the former campus of Pine Manor College
that is now the Brookline Campus at BC, a two
(35:56):
year residential associates degree program. We know one of the
challenges with many students at community colleges is the completion
rate as students are commuting from home and are distracted
in different places. We're bringing in over one hundred students
a year, first generation students from backgrounds that where students
(36:18):
need significant financial aid to explore this idea of a
two year associate's degree that could give them multiple paths.
They could go into the workforce after two years, or
they could continue on at Boston College or at another
four year institution to complete a bachelor's degree. So we're
trying to be part of the solution, trying to help
students that might be thinking about two year associates degrees
(36:40):
in a different way, not just think of them as
a track for employment, but to think about a four
year degree as well.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
Yeah, and let me just add Grant's point is really
an important one. And when you're thinking about people thinking
only about the return on investment that a four year
college degree will bring. First of all, there's a lot
of misinformation out there in the world, probably more now
(37:11):
than there has been in all the time during my career.
It is absolutely the true that you have a much
better chance of making a lot more money, just to
put it bluntly, if you graduate from a four year
institution than if you don't, and that has been proven
(37:32):
time and again with studies of Georgetown, all kinds of
different places over the past few years. And yet there's
this somehow urban legend out there that this is not true,
that you'd be better off not going to college, and
so on. I mean, one of the things that too
that people use is a way to discourage people from
(37:57):
going to college. In a funny way, they talk about debt.
We haven't required loans for our financial aid. Students are
fifty five percent on need based aid. They are not
required to take out loans at all. They graduate debt
free after the four years. So this is a whole
(38:19):
different thing. This urban legend that somehow going to college
won't pay off seems to have particularly affected men in
the United States versus women. So in any case, all
I'm saying is that we want people to think of college,
going to college as a way to become better citizens,
(38:42):
citizen leaders, better human beings, better informed about how to
live your life, all those other things. But if you
do go to college and graduate, you do have a
much better chance of economic success than otherwise, just spite
what you might hear or on on different social media.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
All right, gentlemen, I gotta stop it there, Sam, great call,
great question. Congratulations on such success that you have had
as somebody who talks out of high school.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Hats off to you, my friend. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Keep calling this program, right, gentlemen, Ken, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Sam.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Gentlemen, we have more calls I need to Are we
up for going a little longer into the net into
the next hour?
Speaker 4 (39:27):
I hope surely.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Yeah. I'm happy to do it. It'd be great. This
is a great show for any institution of higher education.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Sounds great, sounds great. We will, We'll get to more callers.
We had a couple of folks who dropped off. Feel
free to call back. Six one seven, two four to
ten thirty six one seven, nine, ten thirty back on
Nightside with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard Grant Coslin of Boston
College talking about applying and being accepted to the college
of your choice.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Back on nightside,
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBS, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And thank you, Emma.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I like your energy. I hope I can match it
for the next four hours.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
My name is Dan Rey. Yeah, I amma. How are you?
I'm good? Are you? I'm doing great? You sound great,
you sound great.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
You're filling in tonight for Nicole, but I'll tell you
you did a great job.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So thanks much. Thank you for the intro. All right,
we'll talk soon. Hope to see you soon.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Well, good evening, everyone, welcome and in we start another
full week of Nightside. Be here with you all week long,
Monday through Friday. I am delighted tonight to do a
program that we've done once a year now for this
is our eighteenth annual college Admissions Panel. I think this
is a critically important program for everyone who listens to Nightside,
(00:54):
and I hope we've mentioned this and promoted this enough
so that if you're a parent or a grand or
betty at a student in high school thinking about applying
to college.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We have two.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Legendary emissions directors with us tonight. I'm going to start
off with Grant Goslin. He's the dean of Undergraduate and
mission Singular and Financial Aid at Boston College. Grant has
been with us now for several years. He succeeds John Mahoney,
who has retired, but in the meantime also was the provo.
(01:29):
You've always had great, big shoes to fill, Grant, but
you're doing a fabulous job.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
This is your fourth or fifth year with us. Maybe
maybe it's a little more tell us, tell us how
many years you've been with us doing this.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
You know it's been a few. It's good to be
back with you, Dan. I really appreciate the opportunity to
engage with you and your listeners tonight.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, I'll tell you you admissions folks, men and women
do great work. I know that that Bill Fitzsimmons, who's
also with us tonight and is going to be participating
in his eighteenth panel. First one we did was two
(02:08):
thousand and seven. Bill Fitzsimmons is the Harvard College Dean
of Admissions and Financial Aid. Bill fitz Simmons, welcome back.
You've had a legendary career from being a student and
an athlete at Harvard and have worked in admissions there
for I'm not going to say how many years, but
(02:31):
it's been a few decades and you're a legendary person
across the country. So thanks so much for coming back
for year eighteen. Bill fitz Simmons, how are you tonight.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Well, thank you, and thank you again for your commitment
to higher education for all these years, and thanks to
Amma for giving us that energy for us to have
another great show. Because when you think about what's happened
in over those eighteen years and how higher education has
become much more critical in lots of different ways for
(03:04):
people in America around the world, it also, at the
same time, things that are happening not just at BC
but at Harvard, but even on the newscast, you know,
things that are happening in the state of Massachusetts with
community colleges and junior colleges. And it's always good for
us to remember that about eighty percent of the students
(03:28):
who go to college in the United States go to
public universities. And it's also good just to remember that
as you step back from it all, most of the
rest of the world sees America's higher education institutions as
the gold standard. So there's a lot for us to
(03:48):
live up to. But there's an awful lot going on
just in this state alone. That makes me very optimistic
for the future.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, both of you, like you just to give some
folks an idea, this is the busy season. Well every
year is that? Every time of years of busy seasons?
For an admission dean or admissions director Bill fitz Simmons,
give me an idea about you at Harvard. You actually
(04:19):
go out and seek out people for admissions and application
to Harvard University. You're out finding people. How many states
in your career in the last few years have you
traveled to just basically tell people in different parts of
the country about higher education and about Harvard University.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
Well, and I think you've got the order write a
whole idea as we go out across the country and
across the world is to talk about the value of
higher education. But even before we get there, not everybody
has to go to college. What everybody has, I hope,
an ambition to do is to make the best of
(05:02):
their talents, you know, whatever they might be and wherever
those talents might lead. We go out with four or
five different travel groups every year around the United States
and around the world, and you know, we hit over
a two or three year period, we hit every state
in the US. And you know, we're also doing a
(05:24):
lot now virtually, so we're doing things with Zoom recruiting
across the country and around the world. And you know,
when you think about you were speculator, and you and
I are pretty much contemporaries, Dan as you know, both
college goaltenders back in our days most successful.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I cannot compare to what you did at Harvard. So
I'm embarrassed.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Well, we all tried to do exactly the same thing.
And I think I've been in admission since nineteen seventy two,
been at Harvard since nineteen sixty three, and it's incredible
to me. I mean, the Harvard I attended was four
to one male to female. Now there are slightly more
women than men. There were very few first generation college
(06:15):
students like me at Harvard at that time, and now
over twenty percent of Harvard students of first gen and
about twenty percent of Hell grant recipients. There were very
few students of color in my era, and today there
are many. The idea is that there is talent everywhere,
(06:39):
but honestly, opportunity is not possible. It's not there for
a lot of people in the same degree as it
is for others. So the whole idea is to make
sure we get word out to talented students everywhere literally
this country and other countries that they have an opportunity
(06:59):
to developed their talents. That's that's the idea, And they
don't have to end up at one of our universities.
But the whole idea, we hope is that they'll end
up making the most of their own talents. But these
places have changed.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Over half the students at Harvard now are on need
based financial aid. We're spending two hundred and sixty million
dollars a year right now on undergraduate financial aid. And
as I grew up in Weymouth, we ran a gas
station and a mom and pop store, and I was
lucky enough to get to Archbishop Williams and then eventually
(07:35):
to Harvard. But I will say it's a world. Harvard
and BC have changed in remarkable ways over this period
of time, and we will get even better, we hope,
in the years ahead.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well I'll tell you again. I just want you to know.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
If anyone who knows Fitz Simmons was great goaltender at Harvard,
my nickname in Boston State was redline. So we'll leave
that part of the conversation all from now. Nothing to
compare Grant. I want to come back to you. BC
has in the last fifty years really transformed itself tremendous leadership.
(08:14):
How many applications is Boston College receiving for how many
spots these days? It's very competitive.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
It has become Dan, you know, you're right. The last
fifty years have really been I think the modern story
for Boston College. We were founded back in eighteen sixty
three and at the time were really charged with educating
the sons of immigrants that were left a few educational
opportunities at the time, and we were largely a regional
(08:45):
institution for most of our history up until the early
nineteen seventies when we were facing some pretty significant financial headwinds,
and the leadership at the time, Father Monan and succeeded
by Father Lay He had really put Boston College on
a course for growth regionally, but then nationally and internationally
(09:07):
as well. We receive somewhere between thirty five and forty
thousand applications a year. We're looking for an entering class
of about twenty four hundred students, you know, and just
as Bill said, you know, our task is really about
how do we reach students wherever they are to help
(09:28):
them think about college as an option. As Bill said,
not everyone will desire to go to college, but we
hope that students are at least thinking about that as
an option. And the reality is high schools across the
country and around the world are not all the same,
They're not all provided the same resources, and there are
students that just don't have the wherewithal of their knowledge
(09:51):
to really get out there and understand the opportunities that
are available to them. And so it's our job to
make sure that as we get out in the road,
we're not only visiting schools that routinely send us applicants
each year, you know, feeder schools if you will, but
that we're we're making sure that we're attending schools that
are are opportunist, opportunistic schools for us, those where we
(10:15):
see great potential but we just haven't seen the application
volume yet. We work really hard to get into both
private and public high schools, to work with community based
organizations that that really fill the gap around college counseling
at at many underfunded public high schools where you know,
(10:35):
if you look in the state of California, for example,
there there are nine hundred students in a public high
school to every one school counselor, and that school counselor
is not earmarked as a college counselor. There they're truancy officers,
their academic advisors, their mental health counselors, and they also
do a little bit of college counseling. And so community
(10:56):
based organizations are an opportunity for colleges to pair up
with nonprofits that are really filling that gap and providing
students with access to information about colleges. And you know,
Bills Team and mine, you know, we're out there really
trying to make sure that students understand that opportunity is there.
And just like Harvard, you know, Boston College is also
(11:19):
deeply committed to need based financial aid and making sure
that every student who qualifies has the funds they need
to be able to accept the offer of admission.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
We're talking about two admissions directors. Bill Fitzimmons Harvard College
is Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid. You've just heard
Grant Goslin, the Dean of Undergraduate Admission and Financial aid
at Boston College. I have a lot of questions. I'm
sure people in our audience does, and I'm hoping that
there are students out there tonight who are embarking on
(11:52):
this on this search, this search for the right school,
for the school that best fits their need, their talent.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
We want to talk.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
About the difference between SAT exams and ACT exams, the
importance of high school grades, teacher recommendations, essays that students
might might might be asked to write about themselves, all
sorts of questions about FAFTSA, which is that Federal Aid
(12:22):
for Student Loan Applications, which now I think there's been
some hiccups on that this year, so we have I
have a lot of questions, but I hope all of
you out there, whether your parents, grandparents, students do not
hesitate six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six seven, nine, three, one,
ten thirty. Those are the two ways to get through.
I'll try, We'll try to get to as many of
(12:43):
you as possible, I promise, but you have to do
your part in that style.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
In My name is Dan Ray. This is Nightside.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Really appreciative of the time that Bill Fitzimmons and Grant Goslin,
Bill of Harvard, granted BC. The admissions directors at both
of those great institutions will spend with us tonight. This
is their high season there in the process of formulating
acceptances which will be sent out. I'm sure early admissions
will be coming out probably by the end of the month,
(13:09):
and then the other admissions will be out. They're still
they're reading, reading, reading, It's a gargantuan, humongous, herculean task,
and for them to take some time for us tonight,
it's really very much appreciated. Back on Night's Side as
we conduct our eighteenth annual college Admissions panel.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Nightside Studios on w b Z the News Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
This is our eighteenth annual college admissions panel. This is
an opportunity for you, whether you're a student, a parent, grandparent,
or family friend, to speak directly with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard,
Grant Goslin of Boston College. It is their staff which
decides who's accepted and who isn't. But more importantly, we
want to try to guide you. We're not just talking
(13:57):
about Harvard or BC tonight. Of course, two of the
pre eminent schools here in the Boston area. But talking
about other issues, So let me start off with again,
assuming that the student is interested in going to college,
and there are a lot of successful people who never
apply to college. They get out in their own in
their own business or in the military or whatever, and
they're very successful people. How important would you say high
(14:22):
school grades are? I know students focus on the Scholastic
Aptitude test, whether it's the SAT or the ACT.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But give us a quick review.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Bill will start with you, maybe on the importance of
the marathon of the four years in high school compared
to that one day performance on the SAT or the ACTS.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Well, I think you've pretty well summed it up in
introducing the question doing well on a day to day
basis in anything. It's the foundation, you know, for any
kind of achievement or excellent. So let's, you know, let's
start out with doing well in each and every subject.
(15:06):
We hope as you go through the process, if you're
not so lucky to be in a school that is
offering absolute top academic opportunities, there are things available and
for example, in con academy sort of free free test prep,
(15:27):
but also free ideas on how to study different subjects
as you're going through high school. So let's start with that,
and I want I turn the next step having to
do with standardized tests, probably over to you Grant.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Yeah, sure, Bill. You know, I think the environment around
standardized test has changed a lot in recent years. I
think over the last thirty or forty years, there have
been a small number of colleges that have offered test
optional admission plan that tended to grow a bit through
the two thousands, the twenty tens, but really when the
(16:06):
pandemic hit in twenty twenty, in the next cycle, after
the pandemic hit, many colleges and universities realized that test
centers were closed and students really didn't have access to
take advantage of testing. If a student could take an exam,
they were doing so under duress, right if the student
(16:27):
behind them was coughing, they were wondering, you know, might
they get sick next? And so I think there was
a huge shift coming out of the pandemic where the
vast majority of colleges, even those that had not previously
been test optional, moved into that environment. And then once
the pandemic subsided, and you know, we moved into a
(16:49):
different state. Things have begun to evolve again, right, And
there are some schools that have re implemented testing, others
that you know, still remain test optional. But what test
scores have done is they've allowed colleges and universities to
understand student performance in context, both nationally and globally. Where
(17:10):
high school curriculums can vary so widely, it can be
difficult sometimes to really understand a student's strength and potential,
and test scores can do that. There is a predictive
element to them. Boston College is an institution that remains
test optional, though this year we have added a recommendation
(17:31):
to students that if they have scores, we're recommending that
they submit them because they again do provide some additional context,
an additional opportunity for us to advocate for a student.
And honestly, during the test optional time that we went through,
there were a lot of students that really struggled with
(17:52):
whether to submit scores. They looked at a mid fifty
percent range that a school might provide and they said, well,
I'm in the middle fifty percent of that range, right,
And so there were students opting not to submit scores
when they were scoring in the ninety seventh or ninety
eighth percentile nationally, but in their mind, if they weren't
above that fifty percent range, they weren't competitive. And that's
(18:13):
really not how we make decisions. Test scores are when
they're used, they're one factor of many that provide again,
another data element for us to make informed decisions.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Again, it is a complex process and it can be
a daunting process. And what we're trying to do tonight
with Bill fitz Simmons and Grant Goslin, Bill from Harvard
for many years, granted at Boston College, is to kind
of demystify some of this. There's all sorts of other
topics that I want to ask them about. But when
we get back, we're going to start with phone calls.
And as far as I'm concerned, we can go phone
(18:46):
calls for as long as you want to keep the
phones ringing six one set, well, not the entire night,
that's for sure, But the gentlemen have committed to an hour,
and if the phone calls persist, I think we might
be able to convince Steven a little longer. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,
thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty. My
name is Dan Ray. I'm just a host of the show.
(19:08):
I'm I'm learning and continue to learn. Every time that
we've had one of these college admissions panels, there are
a whole bunch of topics that I have questions on.
Don't rely upon me to ask you a question, though,
because I might just not think of it, and you're
thinking of it right now.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Give us a call.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Coming back on Nightside with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard and
Grant Goslin of Boston College. They are both the top
guys in the admission department. The titles are similar. Harvard
College Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, Grant Goslin, Dean
of Undergraduate Admission and Financial Aid.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Back on night.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Side, calls and questions and students out there pick up
that fall. We want to hear from you, most importantly.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
With Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
We have not even scratched the surface, but we have
with us the eighteenth Annual College Admissions Paneled. Bill Fitzsimmons,
Harvard College Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, and Grant Goslin,
Dean of Undergraduate Admission and Financial Aid.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
At Boston College.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Now gonna get right to phone calls, and as I say,
rule it will take him as many as we can.
No begging, no pleading, only getting. This is a wonderful
opportunity for you to reach either Bill Fitzsimmons or Grant Gostlin.
So let's go first off to Joy. What a great name.
Joy is in the great state of New York. Joy,
(20:33):
Welcome to night Side. You're al with Bill Fitzsimmons and
Grant Goslin. Go right ahead.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
Oh, gentlemen, thank you so much for taking my call.
Please don't make fun of my accent. I'm from Long Island,
New York. You're gonna you're gonna love my name, all right.
I'm glad you like my name because I purposely married
a guy who's last name Robin my first name. So
I'm actually Joy Mouley. Okay, that's easy to You can't
(20:59):
make that at So my question is, gentlemen, thanks again
for doing this. It's super insightful for parents like me. Grant.
I am a very proud Boston College alum class of
ninety four. Boston College gave me a chance in life.
I'm first generation college and you know, not having parents
(21:21):
who went to college. I don't know what I did
on my application to have BC accept me. I can
tell you that if I had to apply today, with
my SAT scores and my grades, I highly doubt BC
would accept me as a student. My question is I
hear a lot from parents where their kid is a valedatorian,
a fludatorian. They've got exceptional grades like four point six GPAs,
(21:45):
and they discovered the cure for cancer, and they have
like remarkable resumes, but they don't get into the colleges
that they want to get into. So for a parent
like me, I encourage my kids to excel, but I
also don't want to kill themselves either getting the grades
and the scores. How do you all look at an application?
Do you look at it holistically? Is it in their essays? Like,
(22:08):
what do you guys you know, really look at I mean,
I know greeves and SATs are important, but let's say,
for example, that they do well in school, but their
SATs are alton on the weak side no matter how
many times they take it. You know, is there is
there a strategy? Is there a recipe for how you
look at the application?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Okay, let's let's start off with Grant, we're not going
to cut you off. We're going to get a reaction
from Bill fitz Simmons too, But since you're a VC,
since you're an Eagle, we'll start off with Grant Goslin
with this question. Go ahead, Grant.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Well, Joy, it's nice to meet you. Thanks so much
for calling in. Always good to meet a fellow b
C alum. Thanks for your question. You know, this process
is is stressful and it is challenging. Of course. You know,
we institutions like those that Bill and I represent are
really in a fortunate position where we have applicant pools
(22:58):
that are really full of students that impress us as
we work through their applications. You know, each each student
we look at, we're looking at a whole host of things.
And you mentioned holistic admission and absolutely both our institutions.
I certainly can let Bill talk about how things work
(23:19):
at Harvard, but you know, at Boston College where we're
starting with the transcripts, and as we talked about in
the last segment, if students submit scores, we're going to
look at those as well. But the reality is that
at the most selective institutions, there's a difference between being
being qualified and being competitive, right, And most of our
(23:41):
applicants are qualified, right. They could come to our institutions
and do very well and graduate and be quite successful
in life. But I've always explained that it's the applicant pool,
not the admission office, that sets our selectivity, right. And
if students elect to enter the field of a highly
selective admission process, they're taking on a bit of risk.
(24:05):
And you know, we are going to be doing our
best to make sure that as we craft our class,
we're bringing forward students from a wide range of backgrounds.
You mentioned being a first generation college student, you know
that was given a chance. And I think both of
our institutions are really proud of the work that we
continue to do at providing an opportunity for access to
(24:27):
students whose families didn't have that opportunity before them. We're
proud members of an organization on this quest Bridge, which
is a national nonprofit that works to match first generation
and low income students with top universities, and we enroll
over one hundred students a year through that program. And
so we're balancing opportunities like that with going after students
(24:50):
that might come from schools that do have really strong
track records of sending students to universities like ours. But
you know, there isn't a formula. We're looking at after
those objective criteria very much, how that student has engaged
in their community, their school community, their local community, how
(25:13):
they may have wrote about areas of interest or backgrounds
or experiences that they've had that we believe would enrich
our communities as we're bringing them into to Boston College.
So I wish I could tell you there was a formula,
but there isn't. Our decisions are made after really close
(25:36):
consideration of both objective and subjective criteria.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Bill at Simmons, let's get a little view from across
the river to Joy's issues.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Well, I think Grant summed it up well. But that's
you know, a simple way to think about it. And
by the way, Joey, I am thrilled to hear yet
another first gen success story such as yours. And you know,
I all I can say is that as we were
running our gas station and convenience store in Weymouth and
(26:06):
thinking about what we might do in the future, I
had three siblings, all of us you know, decided various
ways that we wanted to head off to college. I
was lucky enough to have one sibling go to Yale
who knew another one go to stone Hill, and yet
another to Boston College, and we all had great experiences.
(26:29):
I think the way to think about it, especially over
to say the fifty year period, is that one of
the great success stories, among other things over fifty years
in college admissions, is the fact that so many women
now are applying to college, which was not the case before.
As I said initially, and one of the reasons it
(26:51):
is a bit more difficult to get into college now.
Is a good thing in the sense that people from
many different backgrounds who might not previous generations have applied
to college are now applying. And the other really great thing,
and you can see it right here in the Boston area,
is that there are so many great choices, public and private.
(27:14):
We sometimes forget that. You know, we are living on
what the world calls the America's college town, and this
is a you know, there are forty five institutions of
higher education in the immediate area, and if you look
even beyond the institutions of higher education, this area is
(27:36):
the best in the world right now. If anyone interested
in the applied life sciences. When you look at higher education,
you look at the hospitals, look at the research possibilities.
This is an amazing place to go to college. And
the fact is that seventy percent of Americans will end
(27:56):
up going to college within fifty miles of their homes.
That's been for quite a while, and most ninety percent
will go within five hundred miles of their home. So
there are so many great possibilities. And the way we
make our choices is that we look at as Grant suggested,
(28:18):
we look at the entire person. We call the whole person,
and we'll look at academic accomplishments. We'll look also at
extracurricular accomplishments, things that you do to help around the home,
things that you might do in work possibilities, as we
did in the gas station and store, and we lived
(28:38):
right across the street, so we had plenty of opportunity
to do that. But we're also trying to figure out
of all these you know, mostly fully qualified students who apply,
who might make the biggest contribution to the fellow classmates
into the faculty during college, and then what kind of
contribution they'll make to the world later on and you know,
(29:02):
this is there about fifty of us and it's a
one person, one vote, and we put everything up on
a screen for everybody to see and discuss and then vote.
But I think we do exactly what you would do
if you go back and even just think about your
own high school and you could admit a relatively small
(29:24):
number of students from your high school to spend four
years together in an educational environment. Whom would you choose?
Where you just take the ones with the highest test
scores and grades. Probably not, although you'd factor that those
those variables in, but you'd look way beyond that. And
I think that's what colleges do, and that's really what
(29:48):
a great private sector organization will do as well. Look
at everything, look at all the talents.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Joy. I hope that that covers the waterfront for you. Okay,
thank you so.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
Much, Thank you so much, y'all, have a good night.
Take care.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Where's your daughters first choice? Joy?
Speaker 6 (30:06):
If I could ask, well, I mean she grew up
with you know, BC merch as they say, and into
the BC Women's hockey games and she plays hockey, so
you know, but she would not turn down an offer
from Harvard either. I'm also glad of the Columbia University.
I have five degrees, and I cannot stress enough the
(30:28):
chance that they took on me having, you know, not
the greatest academics. But BC was really my starting point,
my my my bounce into five years later being accepted
into Columbia for graduate school and moving on. And I
worked on Wall Street. I was an investigative reporter. I'm
now a doctor of vacupuncture with my own practice, and
(30:51):
BC gave me the foundation to really realize what I
wanted to be. So I am living proof that if
you give someone a chance to excel, chances are they'll
do it. I had the right tools and I'm forever
grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
All Right, well, thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Best of luck with your daughter and your and whatever
out of the children are replying.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Thanks Joan, thanks for listening to that.
Speaker 6 (31:10):
Thanks have a good night. Take care you too, have
a great night.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
We'll take very quick break back with Bill Fitzimmons of
Harvard and Grant Gostlin of Boston College right after this.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Let's go next to Sam is An Everett. Sam, you
were next on Nightside with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard, Grant
Gostlin and Boston College.
Speaker 7 (31:34):
Go right ahead, good eating gentlemen. How are you.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
They're doing great? Sam? What's your comment or question?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Uh?
Speaker 7 (31:42):
Comment in a question? I am a high school dropout.
I'm from Boston. I live in Michigan Hill. I ended
up going to Roxbury Community College. I was a single father.
I raised my son on my own. I went to RCC,
and then I applied to a number of school was
accepted by all of them except for Harvard. Ended up
(32:05):
at Amorous College out in the AMers, Massachusetts. Came back
to Boston, went to law school or a practicing lawyer
here in the city. I dedicated at least two hundred
hours a year of non billable pro bowl work for
underserved folks. And as I'm sure the Kale knows, community
(32:25):
college is now free in Massachusetts. And I have two
part question. The first part of the question is how
much outreach do each of your institutions do respect to
drawing from the community college pool. And the other question
I have is and it's a concern that I have
(32:46):
seems to me that community colleges are becoming more and
more trade schools and not focusing on liberal acts and
creating thinkers. There seem to be designed. It seems that
their mission has become to help people get you know,
respectable jobs, but not move on to the next step,
(33:09):
to go to go to for your school, to get
a higher degree.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I think they got the question and just hold on, Sam.
I want to give them each a chance to jump
in here. Bill, why don't you start this one place.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
I'm sorry, okay, one of the Sam. You've had quite
an educational journey and you probably know more at the
ground level about you know, what is happening in the state,
about the projection that people can be on, you know,
depending on which avenues they take. We have about a
(33:47):
ninety eight percent graduation rate, and honestly, very few people
drop out, so we only have a limited number of
spaces available for transfers. But I will tell you whenever
we see good possibility of you know, whether it's bunker
Hill Community College or Roxbury CC or any of the
others around and about, they would certainly get a lot
(34:10):
of attention in our pool. It's a even on the
newscast coming in tonight, your your point was made, you know,
that there's been a great, great thing that's happened this
year this you know, twenty percent increase in students going,
you know, to community colleges in state, and that's got
(34:33):
to be good long term for the health of the
state in terms of developing the full talents of the
people in the state in a way perhaps that's never
been done before.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Sure, but a great quick comment, Grant, is it comment
in here as well? Quick Grant?
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Yes, Sam, thanks so much for calling in for and
for your question. You know, I think this the second
part of it was, you know, a comment about preparing
students for trades or preparing students for jobs, And unfortunately,
I don't think that's limited to the community colleges. I
think the many in the public view, even for your institutions,
(35:13):
as almost a means to an end. And I think
you're right that we're losing the opportunity to really educate
students about the value of the liberal arts, to be
free thinkers, to be problem solvers, to deal with ambiguity,
all the things that a strong liberal arts education that
students might find at our institutions and so many other places,
(35:36):
I think is a critical part of education. We at
BC are really trying to also help students that might
be thinking about a two year path. We just opened
last year on the former campus of Pine Manor College
that is now the Brookline Campus at BC, a two
(35:56):
year residential associates degree program. We know one of the
challenges with many students at community colleges is the completion
rate as students are commuting from home and are distracted
in different places. We're bringing in over one hundred students
a year, first generation students from backgrounds that where students
(36:18):
need significant financial aid to explore this idea of a
two year associate's degree that could give them multiple paths.
They could go into the workforce after two years, or
they could continue on at Boston College or at another
four year institution to complete a bachelor's degree. So we're
trying to be part of the solution, trying to help
students that might be thinking about two year associates degrees
(36:40):
in a different way, not just think of them as
a track for employment, but to think about a four
year degree as well.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
Yeah, and let me just add Grant's point is really
an important one. And when you're thinking about people thinking
only about the return on investment that a four year
college degree will bring. First of all, there's a lot
of misinformation out there in the world, probably more now
(37:11):
than there has been in all the time during my career.
It is absolutely the true that you have a much
better chance of making a lot more money, just to
put it bluntly, if you graduate from a four year
institution than if you don't, and that has been proven
(37:32):
time and again with studies of Georgetown, all kinds of
different places over the past few years. And yet there's
this somehow urban legend out there that this is not true,
that you'd be better off not going to college, and
so on. I mean, one of the things that too
that people use is a way to discourage people from
(37:57):
going to college. In a funny way, they talk about debt.
We haven't required loans for our financial aid. Students are
fifty five percent on need based aid. They are not
required to take out loans at all. They graduate debt
free after the four years. So this is a whole
(38:19):
different thing. This urban legend that somehow going to college
won't pay off seems to have particularly affected men in
the United States versus women. So in any case, all
I'm saying is that we want people to think of college,
going to college as a way to become better citizens,
(38:42):
citizen leaders, better human beings, better informed about how to
live your life, all those other things. But if you
do go to college and graduate, you do have a
much better chance of economic success than otherwise, just spite
what you might hear or on on different social media.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
All right, gentlemen, I gotta stop it there, Sam, great call,
great question. Congratulations on such success that you have had
as somebody who talks out of high school.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Hats off to you, my friend. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
Keep calling this program, right, gentlemen, Ken, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Sam.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Gentlemen, we have more calls I need to Are we
up for going a little longer into the net into
the next hour?
Speaker 4 (39:27):
I hope surely.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Yeah. I'm happy to do it. It'd be great. This
is a great show for any institution of higher education.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Sounds great, sounds great. We will, We'll get to more callers.
We had a couple of folks who dropped off. Feel
free to call back. Six one seven, two four to
ten thirty six one seven, nine, ten thirty back on
Nightside with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard Grant Coslin of Boston
College talking about applying and being accepted to the college
of your choice.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Back on nightside,
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