December 9, 2024 • 42 mins
We began our program with our special annual College Admissions Panel! We were joined by Deans of Admission at Harvard University, William Fitzsimmons and at Boston College, Grant Gosselin. Both Deans answered questions about getting into college, the SATs, paying tuition, the application process, what colleges are looking for in prospective students, and so much more! If you are a student, parent or guardian looking for insight into how the college application process works, this is your opportunity to speak directly to the Deans of Admission at two of the country’s most prestigious academic institutions!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Costin's new radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, this is our eighteenth annual college Admissions panel,
and we're delighted to be joined once again by Bill Fitzsimmons,
the Harvard College Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, and
Grant Goslin, Dean of the undergraduate Admission and Financial Aid
at Boston College. Now we have one hour down and
we may, depending on the phone calls, go all the
(00:27):
way till ten, but we shut it off no later
at the ten o'clock. This is a busy season for
both of these gentlemen. It is not easy for me
to prevail upon Bill fitz Simmons, now in year eighteen,
and Grant Goslin, who has been here. John Mahoney was
the Boston College representative for many years, and Grant is
now in John's position. John has moved on and retired
(00:51):
actually from Boston College. So we're going to get to
phone calls, and I'm going to ask you to keep
you your questions regarding college admissions. I have many questions,
but I'd love to give as many folks an opportunity
to jump in with their questions. So let us without
any further ado, let me go to Kathy and Exeter,
(01:12):
New Hampshire. Kathy, you a first this Hour with Bill
Fitzimmons of Harvard and Grant Goslin of Boston College. What's
your question of comment.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Kathy, Hi, I have a couple quick questions. I think
a lot of people would love to hear the answer
to number one. How has this common apt and the
fact that everyone can just click a button and apply
to a crazy number of colleges changed it for everyone?
I mean, you've obviously got just top kids applying to you,
but with all these schools, everyone I know's kid is
(01:41):
applying to like ten fifteen schools and getting into many
of them, which has got to skew everything for those
poor kids who maybe didn't you know, do as well
freshman year. Yes, I've got that trajectory. They will make
great college students, but now they just can't get in,
Like what has the common life? And you know, I
even know if you who have kids that are amazing
(02:01):
candidates know they're going to get into top schools and
still apply to fifteen because some of it. Oh, I
wanted to turn that one down, and I'm like, whoa
you are really messing with other kids opportunities.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Quality of a quantity is your question. Grant. Let's let's
start with you on this one, if you don't.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Mind, well, Kathy, thanks so much for your question. I
grew up nine miles from Exeter in Southampton, New Hampshire,
so it's nice to have a seacoaster on a call.
You know this. You know, things have really changed, as
you mentioned, the Common Application has you know, maybe had
some unintended outcomes. You know, was designed many years ago
(02:44):
to make the process of applying to college simpler. When
I applied to college in the early nineteen nineties, I
did that on a on a typewriter and you know,
applied to six colleges. I remember, you know, the I'm
not familiar exactly. I remember the University of New Hampshire's
application was blue and I made a mistake and I
had white out on a blue application. So there was
(03:06):
stress back then as well. But you know, when the
Internet really took off, I think that's when the common
app really took off and student behavior did as well.
And you know, in the mid nineteen nineties, students were
applying to about six colleges on average, depending on the
survey today, students are applying to somewhere between ten and
(03:26):
twelve colleges on average, and I think, Kathy, you're right
that students are sometimes not going about this process in
a thoughtful way. It's more throwing, you know, as much
as they gan against the wall and seeing what sticks,
Whereas if they had really been a lot a bit
more discerning earlier in the process to think about the
(03:48):
types of colleges in which they would best thrive, the
opportunities that they might be looking for, they might not
be applying to some of the schools that they have
if they really did term and that, you know, an
urban school might be a better match than a more
of a suburban campus, or a small school rather than
a larger school.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Those are the.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Types of things that students ought to be doing, and
I think many school counselors are working hard to try
to give students the information they need to make informed choices.
But we often hear from students that apply to twelve
schools and then they get into ten and they think
that it's going to help them narrow down their choices,
(04:30):
but then they find themselves in early April with ten
options and in less than a month to make a decision,
and it's really delaying the process. So we encourage students to,
you know, if you've got you know, high school students,
to get them, you know, on a few college campuses,
you know, maybe in the second half of tenth grade
or the summer before eleventh grade, and really trying to
(04:50):
begin this journey of figuring out where they might feel
most comfortable and that may help them be a little
more focused down the road.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Bill fit Simmons every year saw So it seems around
April second or third, I'll be watching some network television
show and they will have on some student who applied
to you know, I don't know, twenty nine colleges and
was a shifted to all of them, every Ivy League school,
et cetera, et cetera, and it's celebrated, and all of
a sudden that student has to pick one out of
(05:18):
twenty nine or one out of nineteen, which seems to
me to be crazy. Your observations on this issue as well.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
We were the first of our kind as an institution
to be a part of the common app and was
right around the time Grant was applying to college in
the in the mid nineties, and I guess I would.
There was certainly our abuses and crazy things that happened,
but I'll just make it really personal as a first
(05:47):
generation college student who was trying to help out at home,
work in the gas station, and the comedians tour across
the street, go to college, go to high school, and
try to put pay for college, play ice hockey at
a high enough level maybe to be recruited. Lots of
different things going on, and my parents had not gone
(06:09):
to college, so couldn't really give the advice on what
to do. A thing like the Common App would have
been a real blessing because the whole idea was that
you could do this well and do it once. And
you know, as oppose, you know, on the other side
of the tracks, there were people whose families knew how
to play this game, and many cases perhaps had professional
(06:34):
help and you know, putting putting the app together, and
all those kinds of things, you know, the idea of
I think the Common App has done a great deal
to democratize access to colleges like Harvard and Boston College,
because you know, let's say, you might not have even
(06:54):
you know, just given how hard it was to apply
to colleges in those days you might have been able
to get into b C or M I T or
you know, Stanford or whatever. But you said it's such
a long shot. I won't, you know, I won't go
through the trouble with a common app. You can give
it a run and and sort of see what happens.
(07:15):
So for all the abuses of having you know somebody,
uh really, you know, you use it to the to
the extreme negativity sometimes, I think, and that you see
out shown in the press. I think it helps way
way more people than it hurts. And I think it's
(07:36):
done a lot to democratize access to higher education.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
All right, to two very different points of view, perhaps, Kathy,
great question.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Great, thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Help Cappy, it does.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I guess I still just know so many you know
kids who are they're using it, Like you said, you
hear the people the twenty nine on this show. It's
like it's a contest and it's really hurting that three.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
That's crazy, isn't It doesn't help anybody?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, I might have overstated that. I think the biggest
one of them was seen was like fifteen, So I
might have I might have overstated that.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
How many kids in this age were arrange and all
of them are applying to over ten and I just
think it's hurting the kids. Who are you know, I
have a student who didn't do so well freshman year,
and that's really coming, you know, to get back at
them now. And you know, I don't want to comment
on that, like that projection. Obviously they're not going to
be able to apply to BC or Harvard. But you
(08:38):
know a kid who right now has a three eight,
who freshman year had a two eight. What those kids are?
You know, you're trying to compete with these you know,
outstanding four point whatever is applying to you know, twelve
schools and taking what appears what could have been spots
for you know, other learners and performers. But anyway, I appreciate, Well, look,
(08:58):
thank you for the question.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It was a really good question.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
We've got to take a break Bankabby, all right, that
was one.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That's one off my list. Now we'll take a quick
break back with Bill Fitzsimmons of Harvard and Grant Goslin
of Boston College. They both are in charge of the
undergraduate UH admissions programs at these two just incredible universities,
and there are so many universities, and at some point, gentlemen,
I do want to talk about picking the best university
(09:26):
for every student. It is not as if the best
university for every student is Harvard or is BC, but
there are lots of great universities around the country. If
you'd like to join the conversation one line at six
one seven, two, five, four to ten thirty, love to
hear from some students. That's what I'm We always do this.
We'll always hear from a couple of students, will have
the courage to call, or six one seven, nine three
(09:49):
one ten thirty. Back on Night Side right after this.
This is our eighteenth annual College Admissions Program Panel.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Now back to Dan Way live from the Window World
Life Side Studios on WBZ News.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Radio, back with our very special guest Bill, Bill Fitzimmons,
Grant Goslin. They are the admissions deans at respectively Hardard
and Boston College. Grit you told us that you'd have
about thirty thousand applicants, thirty five thousand applicants for twenty
four hundred seats. I'm not good at math anymore, but
(10:25):
I think it's about a five or six percent acceptance rate,
or that's that's very competitive.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
It is, you know, and you know, the myth out
there is that you just do that math and you
find the acceptance rate. The reality is most institutions are
admitting more students than they have room for. As these students,
you know, as Kathy mentioned in the previous call, we'll
have multiple options from which to choose. But last year
we admitted about sixteen percent of the students that applied
(10:53):
for admission. So it is a competitive process, a highly
competitive process, not quite at the level my good friend
Bill at Harvard enjoys, but you know, it is also
something that you know, we struggle with. You know, I
think the hardest part of working in highly selective admission
is entering each cycle knowing that we're going to need
(11:15):
to disappoint some very deserving students. And we are human
beings that work in these roles. We care deeply about
young people and helping them achieve their goals. And you know, selectivity,
you know, helps the college I think, feel good and
be popular, certainly, but there is a reality to the
(11:36):
fact that we are working with seventeen year olds that
are you know, working through this process, and we don't
take that responsibility lightly.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, so I think that those acceptance rates are it's
interesting to point that out. People maybe have more of
a chance than they might believe, particularly if there are
people out there who are applying to large numbers and
they get accepted to five, six, seven, eight, ten, twelve colleges,
they can only go to one, so they might their
(12:08):
acceptance rate of the acceptances that received might be in
the in the single digits. Aid as well, let's keep
rolling here, going to keep Next up is Scott in Quincy. Scott,
you're next on Nightside with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard Green
Boston of Boston College. Go ahead, Scott.
Speaker 6 (12:24):
Well, great show, Dan, gentlemen, I would imagine that you
guys have a wide professional network of college admitters. And
my question to you is this is should the United
States Armed Services votccational Aptitude battery tests be a mandatory
(12:46):
requirement for college entrance and presentation of proof that students
are registered for selective service and extra admission points be
given to students agree to participate in ROTC and other
similar programs. Given the geopolitical.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, let me do this, Scott. We're waiting into some
political waters there which I'm not comfortable with and if
my guests are not comfortable with them, I don't think
that either of them are in a position, in my opinion,
to answer that on behalf of the universities. Gentlemen, any
of those questions one, did you feel pertinent to tonight's conversation?
Speaker 5 (13:29):
I actually I would like to dive into this a
little bit because it's very important to us. Especially over
the past five six seven years, we have increased our
recruitment of veterans for undergraduate admission at Harvard greatly. So
it wasn't too many years ago we might have only
(13:49):
one or two veterans a year coming into the first
year undergraduate class. In recent classes, we've been averaging over
twenty veterans, and we've done all kinds of recruiting and've
been involved in various organizations to get that done. So
we're very, very pleased to see that. The obviously, at
the graduate level at Harvard there are many, many more veterans,
(14:13):
and that's a whole other story. Our OTC is another
piece where we have increased our recruitment and gotten the
word out. We hope that we are interested in having
more and more people come to Harvard who are interested
in ROTC, and so we've been recent years been averaging
(14:34):
over forty a year of students either with an ROTC
letter directly coming out of high school or a strong
interest that could then turn into a a sort of
an experience in ROTC at Harvard. So these are big
priorities for us, and we've made enormous progress just in
(14:55):
the past four or five, six, seven years.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I think that there was a period of time, I'm
bill if I'm not mistaken, where r OTC members at Harvard.
Harvard for some period of time did not want ROTC
on campus, and I think that might be where Scott's
question comes from. And it's good to know that maybe
policies and philosophies have changed. I know that Congressman Seth
(15:19):
Moulton was a graduate of Harvard, and I.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Believe that absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
TC student and went on to have several tours of
duty in Iraq, and I believe both Iraq and Afghanistan,
and was an aid to then General David Petraeus. Has
there been a change? Am I correct in recalling that
there was a time where the rot students at Harvard
actually had to participate in r OTC through on the
(15:45):
MIT campus or am I incorrect.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
In that I don't want to put no, you're you're correct,
and just going back to my era, and uh, you
know they were Rotzi of all kinds was available at
Harvard and for undergraduates. And one of my mates was
Navy ROTZI and served in their rick Over nuclear power
program on the subs nuclear subs for about five or
(16:09):
six years after college. Another one was in Air Force ROTZI.
But then ROTZI has discontinued for many years at Harvard
and then brought back relatively recently. And we have done
everything in our power to get the word out that
Rotzi has been back for a while and that we
are really interested in getting more students, you know, we're
(16:34):
interested in Rotzi to come to Harvard the classes they
actually take r at MIT when that still remains the
case because there are limited numbers of opportunities around the country,
you know, for for these programs. But it's really been
amazing when you look at Harvard's military record, because it's
(16:55):
the oldest university in America and you would expect this,
but we have contributed more of our graduates to all
the different wars America has been involved in for all
these years. It's a great track record, and at this time,
I think when the world is even shall we say less,
(17:18):
a certain place where the importance of having a strong
military is I think greater than ever. I'm delighted to
see you Harvard's progress that's been made here over the
past five or six or seven years, and so the
word is out. I hope that if you're a veteran
(17:40):
or a person interested in Razzi, I hope you would
consider Harvard.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And of course we don't have to go back too
many presidencies to think of John Kennedy, who true believe
that he was a member of the ROTC at Harvard,
but he certainly was a hero World War Two and
went on to become the thirty fifth President of the
United States. Also assume building just like the military, the
Rozzi Corps of today, the Rozzi participants r O T
(18:09):
C RETIP participants at Harvard would be of either male
in or female.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Absolutely, yeah, exactly. It's a whole whole, whole different thing,
much much better.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Gotcha. Okay, Scott, good question, and I thank you for
raising it. I wasn't sure do you want to weigh
in at all? Grant does does b C have an
R O T C program or are they concerned about
you know, people who maybe left high school joined the
military and uh and we're applying to college later. Is
(18:42):
that a factor at BC?
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yes, Dan Scott, thanks for the question as well. Just
like Bill said that, you know, Boston College is also
really trying to increase our enrollment of veterans. At Boston College,
we are members of an organization on a service to
school that works with vets and their re entry. Many
of them might start at a community college and then
(19:06):
might be looking to transfer into a four year bachelor's
degree and their scholarship opportunities where members of the Yellow
Ribbon program that I'm sure Harvard is as well. One
of the challenges that we have with veterans is around housing,
right as many of these veterans have families and might
not be looking to live on campus in a traditional environment,
(19:27):
and so there are opportunities not just through the residential program,
but through the Woods College of Advancing Studies, which is
our Nights and Evening program, where many of our vets
are really successful balancing their re entry to civilian life
in the workforce as well as earning their degrees. And
(19:47):
we do also have RTC on campus in conjunction with
Northeastern University, so as Harvard is working with their classes
at MIT, our students are taking their classes with Northeastern.
But it definitely provides it's a nice pathway for students
that might be thinking about service down the road.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Great, Okay, Scott, appreciate the question starting it kicked off
a good conversation. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
All Right, Dan, have a good night and great show.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Thank you, sir. Appreciate. Take quick break nine thirty news
about a minute late. I'll tell you I've got a
couple of open lines if you'd like to get in,
and if there are students out there listening, you're missing
a great opportunity. Six one. Every year we've had two
or three students, so I'll be disappointed if we don't
have a couple of high school students participate. Summon up
the courage and ask whatever question you would like. I
(20:35):
have plenty of questions, but the more important ones are
those for people who are just approaching the process. And
whether you're a parent or a grandparent very important as well.
Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven,
nine three one ten thirty this is the night Side.
My name is Dan Ray. My guests from Boston College
Grant Goslin, the Dean of Undergraduate Admission and Financial Aid,
(20:56):
and from Harvard College, Bill Fitzsimmons, the Dean of the
Harvard College. Harvard College Zene of Admissions plural and Financial Aid.
Little bit of a difference in the title, but not
even much. Not even need to discuss in one plural
one singular titles of important though. We'll be back at Night's.
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Speaker 1 (23:21):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Well, we have our first high school student tonight, for
which I am thrilled, and his name is Riley and
he's from the state of Virginia. Riley, appreciate you listening
to the Night Side. You're on with Bill Fitzimmons of
Harvard and Grant Goslin of Boston College. How are you tonight, Riley? Hi?
Speaker 7 (23:45):
Am good.
Speaker 8 (23:45):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I'm great? Are you a regular listener or did someone
tell you, hey, there's a good show to listen to
tonight in Boston.
Speaker 8 (23:53):
My mom's from Boston and she had the show on
and she just let me know about it.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
So I've been knowing what you are you and are
you still in high school?
Speaker 8 (24:02):
Yes, I'm a senior in high school.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
All right, Well, whatever your question is for Bill, Bill
Fitzimmons or Great Goslin, you go right ahead, Riley.
Speaker 8 (24:12):
Okay, so obviously I'm an out of state student, but
my mom went to school in Boston and she loved it,
and I've loved the Boston schools, and I'm super interested
in both schools, and obviously they're both super competitive. So
I was wondering other than the essays. I know that
the common app essay is important, but I didn't know
if there's another way to stand out.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
That's a great question, and I think you're going to
get a great answer for both of these gentlemen who
would like to take this one for us. Grant you
want to lead us off.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Sure thing, Riley, thanks so much for your question and
for calling in, and I'm glad to hear that you're
looking north at potential options for college. You know, I
think when students go through this process, we often will
hear from them that you know they're they're looking to
stand out. And I think the best way, very honestly,
(25:02):
is to be yourself in this process, to let us
know the things that you value in your life thus far,
the things that you're looking for in an institution like ours.
Boston College gives students the opportunity, in addition to the
common application essays to respond to one of four supplemental
(25:24):
prompts that are very much tied to our values as
an institution, our mission as a Jesuit Catholic university, and
those questions for us are probably the most enlightening part
of the application in many instances, because you can't fill
out the responses to our questions and have them make
(25:45):
sense at other institutions, so you really have to do
your homework. They do require some discernment upfront, but don't
try to be something that you're not. I think oftentimes
students might visit BC and they learn about the fact
that we're a Jesuit university and we value UH, you know,
students that look to use their education for the greater
(26:06):
good and want to be involved in service UH, and
many of our students do that. That doesn't mean that
we're only looking for students that have been involved with
certain service in high school, right. We are looking to
bring together a class with a wide range of backgrounds
and talents. So I if doing service has been part
of your identity, then then tell us all about it.
(26:27):
But don't go out and join a service club this
this fall just because you think it will look good
on a college essay, college application. Tell us the things
that you do, uh, and trust that we're going to
be looking to take those talents that you have and
and see how they might fit into a greater class
of students from around the country and throughout the world.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Than rarely. Don't go away. You got to talk to
from Harvard too, Bill fit Simmons. I know that you
have talked about this before on this program in the
context of kids who go off on a one week
trip to build a house in Columbia or whatever, while
(27:10):
at the same time there are great opportunities for service
in their own community. You folks are not impressed. I
think that the I don't know the distinction of going
five thousand miles from home to spend a week building something.
I think the novelty of that maybe has worn off.
Or am I did I misread you? No?
Speaker 5 (27:32):
I think you bring an important point to the right
out for people to consider. I mean, not everyone can afford,
of course, to travel hundreds of thousands of miles, you know,
to do such a project. Now there are people who
can afford it and who do it for all the
right reasons. We're in a great deal and are better
(27:53):
for it, but there are also ways to help out.
Write in your own family, right your own neighborhood, right
in your own community, your own high school. You know
things closer to home that that you could make a
real difference. So, Riley, you've already told us kind of
(28:14):
an interesting story. You've got a mother who went to
school in Boston. You know something about Boston from her.
You know about Virginia, I mean your region of the
country we call mid Atlantic at an area where I've
traveled to quite a bit in my recruiting along. I
have one recruiting group Georgetown, Penn, Duke, and Stanford. I've
(28:35):
got another one Yale, Princeton and UVA and a whole
bunch of different I won't go through our travel groups,
but we we hit your area very hard and we
get some really wonderful students that it sounds to me
as though you in some ways have kind of a
special story to tell. And you can tell up through
(28:55):
your common application essay, of course, and as Grant said,
you can also tell up through our supplementary questions, and
we have five of them, including one where we try
to ask you to think about it. Was there a
time you and someone else disagreed strongly about a particular issue,
and how did you talk about it, How did you
(29:17):
resolve your differences? And what did you go what did
you learn from that? It's one of the issues that
we're trying to get people to think about. To be
able to talk about difference, you know, we've got to
give free speech and intellectual vitality I think are very
very important, and I think in a world that is
complex and requires, I think compromise on everyone's part. How
(29:42):
can you you know? How will you perhaps mean? One
of our five questions has to do with what kind
of a roommate will you be? It's the last of
our five questions. We ask you about the future, We
ask you about your your extracurricular stuff and community stuff.
But the reality is you have a unique story to
(30:02):
tell about who you are and why you might be
interested in going to college in the Boston area. So
they always say, right about something you care about and
something you know about, And it sounds to me as
though you have both. And so you can tell this
story and you'll be able to make your case about
(30:23):
how you can how you might be a person who
could make a real difference to others during your time
at BC or at Harvard and maybe make a real
difference to the world later.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Rollie, you got some great suggestions. We had a student
a couple of years ago, more than a couple of
years ago, been seven or eight years ago, Bill Fitzimmons.
You might remember her dad called in and said that
she had had a rough sophomore year, but her grades
and the other years were pretty john good. And I
(30:56):
think it was you, Bill who had the the insight
to ask, well, what caused the drop? And her mom
had died during that year. And the point that you made,
and I hope you remember it, Bill, was that that
was a great topic for her to talk about the
terrible loss, but you know how she was able to,
(31:18):
you know, bounce back in her junior and senior year.
So everyone has a story, they just have to dig
down and figure out what that story is, and hers
was a very appealing story. I hope you recall this conversation. Oh,
I do.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
And you know there have been COVID has created so
many tragic stories within families and within communities as well.
I don't think the country has come close to recovering
from COVID yet, and the young people whose talents were
not as well developed during that time. But nor your
(31:54):
memory is as always dan perfect And that's I mean.
And I will just say myself. You know, as I
was going through high school, middle school especially, there were
some issues and perhaps I was also spending a little
bit too much time playing ice hockey. But you know,
whatever the reasons, I ended up not doing as well
(32:17):
as I had hoped in my first ninth grade. So
I'm now an expert in ninth grade. So I was
very lucky enough to be able to repeat the ninth
grade at Archbishop Williams and Braintree. Uh And that made
an enormous difference in my life. I had a chance
to start over and and and you know, there was
(32:37):
a story there, and I think again, you've got to
tell your own story and and create in your in
your truth, I think will win out in the ends.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Rolly, great call. Thanks for having the courage to call
uh I boy. I'll tell you if I was in
a missions director at any school in the country, someone
who had the courage to do what you did tonight.
And you're awfully well spoken. You are very very well spoken.
I suspect you're going to be a strong candidate wherever
you apply. Thank you so much, Thank.
Speaker 8 (33:07):
You very much. Thank you for all the advice. I'm
looking forward to telling my story about becoming a Navy nurse.
The advice on Rossy was super helpful too well.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Sound good. Let us know if you apply.
Speaker 8 (33:18):
All right, I'd like to hear Riley good night.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
We'll take a very quick break, coming right back. Got
a couple more calls we're going to get to. I
think tonight's been one of our better shows. We've had
a lot of good ones over the years, and I
think we're going to finish strong tonight in the final
ten minutes. Coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Now back to Dan Ray Mine from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Let's keep rolling here. I got three callers, going to
try to get them all in. Let me go to
Jovanna in Newburyport. Jovannah next on Night's Side with Grant
Goslin and Bill Fitzimmons. Go right ahead, Jovanna. Hi.
Speaker 7 (33:54):
My mom actually called earlier Joy Moy and she recommended
I come and ask my question.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Are you a student?
Speaker 7 (34:02):
Yeah, I'm a junior in high school right now. I
go to from Long Island, but I go to a
boarding school up in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Okay, go right ahead. We're just really tied on time,
So whatever you I wish you had called earlier, but
we'll get you. We'll get your question in. Go ahead.
Speaker 7 (34:16):
Yeah. So, like my mom said, she had a lot
of opportunities at BC and now going to the college process,
I was wondering how many colleges should I be applying to,
because I know when she was, you know, a senior
in high school, she applied to six or seven. But
now I'm hearing from outside sources that it should be
more than twelve, maybe fifteen. What do you recommend?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
How many?
Speaker 7 (34:37):
How many do you think I've applied to to get
the best opportunity.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Let the experts recommend, but I think you pick four
or five and good and good ones that you would
intend to go to. Don't don't, don't look at it
as an Olympic competition. Go ahead, Grant or Bill, whichever
would like to take that, go get them.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Yeah, you know, Jovanna, I don't think there's a real
easy answer to this question. I think the first piece
of this is to take a careful look at the
list of schools that you have and do an honest
assessment about the selectivity of those institutions. If you're applying
only to schools that have single digit admit rates, that
(35:15):
might be a challenge for you down the road if
things don't work out of those schools. I think if
you have a balanced list and you're certainly reaching for
some schools that it might be aspirational or you know,
might be a bit of a reach. Or also having
some schools that are pretty you're pretty confident you'll earn
admission to and some you're absolutely sure that's going to
(35:37):
be an option. I think that's going to take some
of the pressure off from feeling the need to apply
to fifteen colleges. I think a well designed college search
doesn't have to include that many. You know, and the
reality is that the average admit rate into a four
year degree program in the United States is about seventy percent.
(35:58):
And here in the Northeast we have so many really
strong schools that have very selective admission processes that sometimes
you can become a little disillusioned at the college process,
thinking that it's impossible to earn admission. So my advice is,
have a well balanced list and you can get away
with applying to a smaller.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Number, Billy, any other information I suggest you like that?
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Well, I thought Grant summed it up beautifully.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
All right, thank you, Jovanna A good question and best
of luck.
Speaker 7 (36:32):
Okay, thank you so much, thank you, thank.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
You very much. So we go to Paul in Plymouth. Paul,
you gotta be quick for me. I got one other
caller as well.
Speaker 9 (36:39):
Go ahead, Paul, Hi, gentlemen. I just wanted to thank
mister Goslin because back in the eighties, I got out
of the service out of the coast and I went
to Massasoyt and I applied to After getting out of there,
I applied to ec U, mass Amherst and Bridge Rawer.
I got kept it at all three. Ec offered me
(36:59):
a wonderful whole scholarship and this and that and uh,
but I couldn't afford to live on campus. They had
no on campus housing at the time, so I ended
up going to UMass. I had a great experience out there,
but I never sent a thank you note to BC.
So it's a long related thank you, and I appreciate
that it was a nice thing for folks to do.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well.
Speaker 9 (37:21):
Thank yeah, thank.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
You, thank you for your service and thank you for
being a gentleman. Thanks, Paul, I got to get one more.
Speaker 9 (37:30):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Good night now, Mary, good night, Merry Christmas. Do you
as well? George and New Bedford. George, you're gonna wrap
it for us. We got a little tight on time.
Go right ahead, George.
Speaker 10 (37:40):
Yes. I wonder if anybody.
Speaker 11 (37:41):
At Harvard is responsible for informing interested students and what
the dropout rate is for the bachelor's program, uh, those
who frunk.
Speaker 10 (37:54):
Out, those who drop out, those who transfer. And then finally,
is anybody possible beer for informing people with a definite
career agenda and program what the placement rates are in
jobs and how soon after they get it?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Okay, Bill.
Speaker 5 (38:17):
Story here for New Bedford and for the world, we
typically have among the very highest graduation rate in the country.
Typically it's ninety seven ninety eight percent, so very few
people end up dropping out, as it turns out. And
the other thing is that over time, and especially recently
(38:38):
because of the Mignoni family, we have a brand new
career center, the Minone Center for Career Success, which helps
people who are interested in any number of different careers
that in almost any career you can imagine, and for
that matter of careers that haven't even been invented yet.
So it's a really great story BC or Harvard or
(39:03):
places like it. Great, very very high graduation rates, very
low dropout rates, and very good things happening after college.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
And I'm sure great the story is very similar at
PC in terms of the loss of students from a
freshman to senior year.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
It is.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Yeah, we have, you know, the best majority of well
of a ninety percent of our students graduating from BC
and at most recent survey, ninety six percent of students
within six months meeting with success, whether that's going to
the workforce or a graduate school.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
And I'm sure that you guys have some great placement
programs and career guidance counseling.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
You sure do, We sure do.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Gentlemen, gentlemen, this was a great two hours. Bill Fitzimmons,
thank you very much for number eighteen. Let's see if
we can hit nineteen a year from now. But I
know you're a little bit on the disabled list tonight.
You held up for the two.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
Hours, man, I no, no, this was great, And yeah,
we're going to shoot for nineteen and and and kind
of go from there as they say, you know I yeah,
you're right. It was diagnosed on Saturday with COVID, and
after one really bad day, things have been all on
the upward trend. So thank you. If my voice didn't
(40:22):
sound quite the same as usual, I apologize.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
No, it sounded fine. I hope that your docs. I
introduced you to pax Clovid because that helped me a
couple of years ago. Immensely. That's between you and your doctors,
but it really worked for me, and I hope you
get a quick recovery. Grint. As always, thank you very much.
Look forward to the BC Nebraska football game at Yankee
Stadium for what they call it the Christmas Bowl down there.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
For that one, we'll call it Christmas Ball. I think
it's a pinstripe Bowl. But looking forward to a great game.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah, and I'm predicted BC he beats the Huscars, that's
for sure. Gentlemen. I can't thank you enough on behalf
of every one of my audience tonight, and of course
this is available. Both of these hours will be put
up on podcast form tonight at nightside on demand shortly
after the program is over by our great producer Rob Brooks.
So this will be replayed by many, many students and
(41:21):
many many families around the country. Both Bill and Grant.
I'm indebted to you deeply on behalf of my audience.
Thank you, gentlemen, and have great.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
Aank you Dan for being such a champion of higher education.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
My pleasure. Merry Christmas to both you and yours and
your families and to your student bodies who celebrate whoever
celebrates Christmas. Thanks guys, Talk to you soon.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yeah bye bye.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Here we go where I'm heading to the other side
of the ten o'clock news, and we are going to
get back to a more regular fear. Of course, the
big story today is the arrest of the twenty six
year old in al Tuna, Pennsylvania. He is a strong
suspect not yet charged in the murder, but I think
the writing's on the wall. Back after the ten here
on nightside,
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Costin's new radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, this is our eighteenth annual college Admissions panel,
and we're delighted to be joined once again by Bill Fitzsimmons,
the Harvard College Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, and
Grant Goslin, Dean of the undergraduate Admission and Financial Aid
at Boston College. Now we have one hour down and
we may, depending on the phone calls, go all the
(00:27):
way till ten, but we shut it off no later
at the ten o'clock. This is a busy season for
both of these gentlemen. It is not easy for me
to prevail upon Bill fitz Simmons, now in year eighteen,
and Grant Goslin, who has been here. John Mahoney was
the Boston College representative for many years, and Grant is
now in John's position. John has moved on and retired
(00:51):
actually from Boston College. So we're going to get to
phone calls, and I'm going to ask you to keep
you your questions regarding college admissions. I have many questions,
but I'd love to give as many folks an opportunity
to jump in with their questions. So let us without
any further ado, let me go to Kathy and Exeter,
(01:12):
New Hampshire. Kathy, you a first this Hour with Bill
Fitzimmons of Harvard and Grant Goslin of Boston College. What's
your question of comment.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Kathy, Hi, I have a couple quick questions. I think
a lot of people would love to hear the answer
to number one. How has this common apt and the
fact that everyone can just click a button and apply
to a crazy number of colleges changed it for everyone?
I mean, you've obviously got just top kids applying to you,
but with all these schools, everyone I know's kid is
(01:41):
applying to like ten fifteen schools and getting into many
of them, which has got to skew everything for those
poor kids who maybe didn't you know, do as well
freshman year. Yes, I've got that trajectory. They will make
great college students, but now they just can't get in,
Like what has the common life? And you know, I
even know if you who have kids that are amazing
(02:01):
candidates know they're going to get into top schools and
still apply to fifteen because some of it. Oh, I
wanted to turn that one down, and I'm like, whoa
you are really messing with other kids opportunities.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Quality of a quantity is your question. Grant. Let's let's
start with you on this one, if you don't.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Mind, well, Kathy, thanks so much for your question. I
grew up nine miles from Exeter in Southampton, New Hampshire,
so it's nice to have a seacoaster on a call.
You know this. You know, things have really changed, as
you mentioned, the Common Application has you know, maybe had
some unintended outcomes. You know, was designed many years ago
(02:44):
to make the process of applying to college simpler. When
I applied to college in the early nineteen nineties, I
did that on a on a typewriter and you know,
applied to six colleges. I remember, you know, the I'm
not familiar exactly. I remember the University of New Hampshire's
application was blue and I made a mistake and I
had white out on a blue application. So there was
(03:06):
stress back then as well. But you know, when the
Internet really took off, I think that's when the common
app really took off and student behavior did as well.
And you know, in the mid nineteen nineties, students were
applying to about six colleges on average, depending on the
survey today, students are applying to somewhere between ten and
(03:26):
twelve colleges on average, and I think, Kathy, you're right
that students are sometimes not going about this process in
a thoughtful way. It's more throwing, you know, as much
as they gan against the wall and seeing what sticks,
Whereas if they had really been a lot a bit
more discerning earlier in the process to think about the
(03:48):
types of colleges in which they would best thrive, the
opportunities that they might be looking for, they might not
be applying to some of the schools that they have
if they really did term and that, you know, an
urban school might be a better match than a more
of a suburban campus, or a small school rather than
a larger school.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Those are the.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Types of things that students ought to be doing, and
I think many school counselors are working hard to try
to give students the information they need to make informed choices.
But we often hear from students that apply to twelve
schools and then they get into ten and they think
that it's going to help them narrow down their choices,
(04:30):
but then they find themselves in early April with ten
options and in less than a month to make a decision,
and it's really delaying the process. So we encourage students to,
you know, if you've got you know, high school students,
to get them, you know, on a few college campuses,
you know, maybe in the second half of tenth grade
or the summer before eleventh grade, and really trying to
(04:50):
begin this journey of figuring out where they might feel
most comfortable and that may help them be a little
more focused down the road.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Bill fit Simmons every year saw So it seems around
April second or third, I'll be watching some network television
show and they will have on some student who applied
to you know, I don't know, twenty nine colleges and
was a shifted to all of them, every Ivy League school,
et cetera, et cetera, and it's celebrated, and all of
a sudden that student has to pick one out of
(05:18):
twenty nine or one out of nineteen, which seems to
me to be crazy. Your observations on this issue as well.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
We were the first of our kind as an institution
to be a part of the common app and was
right around the time Grant was applying to college in
the in the mid nineties, and I guess I would.
There was certainly our abuses and crazy things that happened,
but I'll just make it really personal as a first
(05:47):
generation college student who was trying to help out at home,
work in the gas station, and the comedians tour across
the street, go to college, go to high school, and
try to put pay for college, play ice hockey at
a high enough level maybe to be recruited. Lots of
different things going on, and my parents had not gone
(06:09):
to college, so couldn't really give the advice on what
to do. A thing like the Common App would have
been a real blessing because the whole idea was that
you could do this well and do it once. And
you know, as oppose, you know, on the other side
of the tracks, there were people whose families knew how
to play this game, and many cases perhaps had professional
(06:34):
help and you know, putting putting the app together, and
all those kinds of things, you know, the idea of
I think the Common App has done a great deal
to democratize access to colleges like Harvard and Boston College,
because you know, let's say, you might not have even
(06:54):
you know, just given how hard it was to apply
to colleges in those days you might have been able
to get into b C or M I T or
you know, Stanford or whatever. But you said it's such
a long shot. I won't, you know, I won't go
through the trouble with a common app. You can give
it a run and and sort of see what happens.
(07:15):
So for all the abuses of having you know somebody,
uh really, you know, you use it to the to
the extreme negativity sometimes, I think, and that you see
out shown in the press. I think it helps way
way more people than it hurts. And I think it's
(07:36):
done a lot to democratize access to higher education.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
All right, to two very different points of view, perhaps, Kathy,
great question.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Great, thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
Help Cappy, it does.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I guess I still just know so many you know
kids who are they're using it, Like you said, you
hear the people the twenty nine on this show. It's
like it's a contest and it's really hurting that three.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
That's crazy, isn't It doesn't help anybody?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, I might have overstated that. I think the biggest
one of them was seen was like fifteen, So I
might have I might have overstated that.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
How many kids in this age were arrange and all
of them are applying to over ten and I just
think it's hurting the kids. Who are you know, I
have a student who didn't do so well freshman year,
and that's really coming, you know, to get back at
them now. And you know, I don't want to comment
on that, like that projection. Obviously they're not going to
be able to apply to BC or Harvard. But you
(08:38):
know a kid who right now has a three eight,
who freshman year had a two eight. What those kids are?
You know, you're trying to compete with these you know,
outstanding four point whatever is applying to you know, twelve
schools and taking what appears what could have been spots
for you know, other learners and performers. But anyway, I appreciate, Well, look,
(08:58):
thank you for the question.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It was a really good question.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
We've got to take a break Bankabby, all right, that
was one.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That's one off my list. Now we'll take a quick
break back with Bill Fitzsimmons of Harvard and Grant Goslin
of Boston College. They both are in charge of the
undergraduate UH admissions programs at these two just incredible universities,
and there are so many universities, and at some point, gentlemen,
I do want to talk about picking the best university
(09:26):
for every student. It is not as if the best
university for every student is Harvard or is BC, but
there are lots of great universities around the country. If
you'd like to join the conversation one line at six
one seven, two, five, four to ten thirty, love to
hear from some students. That's what I'm We always do this.
We'll always hear from a couple of students, will have
the courage to call, or six one seven, nine three
(09:49):
one ten thirty. Back on Night Side right after this.
This is our eighteenth annual College Admissions Program Panel.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Now back to Dan Way live from the Window World
Life Side Studios on WBZ News.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Radio, back with our very special guest Bill, Bill Fitzimmons,
Grant Goslin. They are the admissions deans at respectively Hardard
and Boston College. Grit you told us that you'd have
about thirty thousand applicants, thirty five thousand applicants for twenty
four hundred seats. I'm not good at math anymore, but
(10:25):
I think it's about a five or six percent acceptance rate,
or that's that's very competitive.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
It is, you know, and you know, the myth out
there is that you just do that math and you
find the acceptance rate. The reality is most institutions are
admitting more students than they have room for. As these students,
you know, as Kathy mentioned in the previous call, we'll
have multiple options from which to choose. But last year
we admitted about sixteen percent of the students that applied
(10:53):
for admission. So it is a competitive process, a highly
competitive process, not quite at the level my good friend
Bill at Harvard enjoys, but you know, it is also
something that you know, we struggle with. You know, I
think the hardest part of working in highly selective admission
is entering each cycle knowing that we're going to need
(11:15):
to disappoint some very deserving students. And we are human
beings that work in these roles. We care deeply about
young people and helping them achieve their goals. And you know, selectivity,
you know, helps the college I think, feel good and
be popular, certainly, but there is a reality to the
(11:36):
fact that we are working with seventeen year olds that
are you know, working through this process, and we don't
take that responsibility lightly.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, so I think that those acceptance rates are it's
interesting to point that out. People maybe have more of
a chance than they might believe, particularly if there are
people out there who are applying to large numbers and
they get accepted to five, six, seven, eight, ten, twelve colleges,
they can only go to one, so they might their
(12:08):
acceptance rate of the acceptances that received might be in
the in the single digits. Aid as well, let's keep
rolling here, going to keep Next up is Scott in Quincy. Scott,
you're next on Nightside with Bill Fitzimmons of Harvard Green
Boston of Boston College. Go ahead, Scott.
Speaker 6 (12:24):
Well, great show, Dan, gentlemen, I would imagine that you
guys have a wide professional network of college admitters. And
my question to you is this is should the United
States Armed Services votccational Aptitude battery tests be a mandatory
(12:46):
requirement for college entrance and presentation of proof that students
are registered for selective service and extra admission points be
given to students agree to participate in ROTC and other
similar programs. Given the geopolitical.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, let me do this, Scott. We're waiting into some
political waters there which I'm not comfortable with and if
my guests are not comfortable with them, I don't think
that either of them are in a position, in my opinion,
to answer that on behalf of the universities. Gentlemen, any
of those questions one, did you feel pertinent to tonight's conversation?
Speaker 5 (13:29):
I actually I would like to dive into this a
little bit because it's very important to us. Especially over
the past five six seven years, we have increased our
recruitment of veterans for undergraduate admission at Harvard greatly. So
it wasn't too many years ago we might have only
(13:49):
one or two veterans a year coming into the first
year undergraduate class. In recent classes, we've been averaging over
twenty veterans, and we've done all kinds of recruiting and've
been involved in various organizations to get that done. So
we're very, very pleased to see that. The obviously, at
the graduate level at Harvard there are many, many more veterans,
(14:13):
and that's a whole other story. Our OTC is another
piece where we have increased our recruitment and gotten the
word out. We hope that we are interested in having
more and more people come to Harvard who are interested
in ROTC, and so we've been recent years been averaging
(14:34):
over forty a year of students either with an ROTC
letter directly coming out of high school or a strong
interest that could then turn into a a sort of
an experience in ROTC at Harvard. So these are big
priorities for us, and we've made enormous progress just in
(14:55):
the past four or five, six, seven years.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I think that there was a period of time, I'm
bill if I'm not mistaken, where r OTC members at Harvard.
Harvard for some period of time did not want ROTC
on campus, and I think that might be where Scott's
question comes from. And it's good to know that maybe
policies and philosophies have changed. I know that Congressman Seth
(15:19):
Moulton was a graduate of Harvard, and I.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Believe that absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
TC student and went on to have several tours of
duty in Iraq, and I believe both Iraq and Afghanistan,
and was an aid to then General David Petraeus. Has
there been a change? Am I correct in recalling that
there was a time where the rot students at Harvard
actually had to participate in r OTC through on the
(15:45):
MIT campus or am I incorrect.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
In that I don't want to put no, you're you're correct,
and just going back to my era, and uh, you
know they were Rotzi of all kinds was available at
Harvard and for undergraduates. And one of my mates was
Navy ROTZI and served in their rick Over nuclear power
program on the subs nuclear subs for about five or
(16:09):
six years after college. Another one was in Air Force ROTZI.
But then ROTZI has discontinued for many years at Harvard
and then brought back relatively recently. And we have done
everything in our power to get the word out that
Rotzi has been back for a while and that we
are really interested in getting more students, you know, we're
(16:34):
interested in Rotzi to come to Harvard the classes they
actually take r at MIT when that still remains the
case because there are limited numbers of opportunities around the country,
you know, for for these programs. But it's really been
amazing when you look at Harvard's military record, because it's
(16:55):
the oldest university in America and you would expect this,
but we have contributed more of our graduates to all
the different wars America has been involved in for all
these years. It's a great track record, and at this time,
I think when the world is even shall we say less,
(17:18):
a certain place where the importance of having a strong
military is I think greater than ever. I'm delighted to
see you Harvard's progress that's been made here over the
past five or six or seven years, and so the
word is out. I hope that if you're a veteran
(17:40):
or a person interested in Razzi, I hope you would
consider Harvard.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And of course we don't have to go back too
many presidencies to think of John Kennedy, who true believe
that he was a member of the ROTC at Harvard,
but he certainly was a hero World War Two and
went on to become the thirty fifth President of the
United States. Also assume building just like the military, the
Rozzi Corps of today, the Rozzi participants r O T
(18:09):
C RETIP participants at Harvard would be of either male
in or female.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Absolutely, yeah, exactly. It's a whole whole, whole different thing,
much much better.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Gotcha. Okay, Scott, good question, and I thank you for
raising it. I wasn't sure do you want to weigh
in at all? Grant does does b C have an
R O T C program or are they concerned about
you know, people who maybe left high school joined the
military and uh and we're applying to college later. Is
(18:42):
that a factor at BC?
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yes, Dan Scott, thanks for the question as well. Just
like Bill said that, you know, Boston College is also
really trying to increase our enrollment of veterans. At Boston College,
we are members of an organization on a service to
school that works with vets and their re entry. Many
of them might start at a community college and then
(19:06):
might be looking to transfer into a four year bachelor's
degree and their scholarship opportunities where members of the Yellow
Ribbon program that I'm sure Harvard is as well. One
of the challenges that we have with veterans is around housing,
right as many of these veterans have families and might
not be looking to live on campus in a traditional environment,
(19:27):
and so there are opportunities not just through the residential program,
but through the Woods College of Advancing Studies, which is
our Nights and Evening program, where many of our vets
are really successful balancing their re entry to civilian life
in the workforce as well as earning their degrees. And
(19:47):
we do also have RTC on campus in conjunction with
Northeastern University, so as Harvard is working with their classes
at MIT, our students are taking their classes with Northeastern.
But it definitely provides it's a nice pathway for students
that might be thinking about service down the road.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Great, Okay, Scott, appreciate the question starting it kicked off
a good conversation. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
All Right, Dan, have a good night and great show.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Thank you, sir. Appreciate. Take quick break nine thirty news
about a minute late. I'll tell you I've got a
couple of open lines if you'd like to get in,
and if there are students out there listening, you're missing
a great opportunity. Six one. Every year we've had two
or three students, so I'll be disappointed if we don't
have a couple of high school students participate. Summon up
the courage and ask whatever question you would like. I
(20:35):
have plenty of questions, but the more important ones are
those for people who are just approaching the process. And
whether you're a parent or a grandparent very important as well.
Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven,
nine three one ten thirty this is the night Side.
My name is Dan Ray. My guests from Boston College
Grant Goslin, the Dean of Undergraduate Admission and Financial Aid,
(20:56):
and from Harvard College, Bill Fitzsimmons, the Dean of the
Harvard College. Harvard College Zene of Admissions plural and Financial Aid.
Little bit of a difference in the title, but not
even much. Not even need to discuss in one plural
one singular titles of important though. We'll be back at Night's.
I join us right after this. According to an NIH
(21:19):
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at least six permanent teeth that can lead to chewing, digestion,
and self esteem problems. Dental implants are now the gold
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I went out and sat in the chair. He explained
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on a screen so that I had a clear picture
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Speaker 1 (23:21):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Well, we have our first high school student tonight, for
which I am thrilled, and his name is Riley and
he's from the state of Virginia. Riley, appreciate you listening
to the Night Side. You're on with Bill Fitzimmons of
Harvard and Grant Goslin of Boston College. How are you tonight, Riley? Hi?
Speaker 7 (23:45):
Am good.
Speaker 8 (23:45):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I'm great? Are you a regular listener or did someone
tell you, hey, there's a good show to listen to
tonight in Boston.
Speaker 8 (23:53):
My mom's from Boston and she had the show on
and she just let me know about it.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
So I've been knowing what you are you and are
you still in high school?
Speaker 8 (24:02):
Yes, I'm a senior in high school.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
All right, Well, whatever your question is for Bill, Bill
Fitzimmons or Great Goslin, you go right ahead, Riley.
Speaker 8 (24:12):
Okay, so obviously I'm an out of state student, but
my mom went to school in Boston and she loved it,
and I've loved the Boston schools, and I'm super interested
in both schools, and obviously they're both super competitive. So
I was wondering other than the essays. I know that
the common app essay is important, but I didn't know
if there's another way to stand out.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
That's a great question, and I think you're going to
get a great answer for both of these gentlemen who
would like to take this one for us. Grant you
want to lead us off.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Sure thing, Riley, thanks so much for your question and
for calling in, and I'm glad to hear that you're
looking north at potential options for college. You know, I
think when students go through this process, we often will
hear from them that you know they're they're looking to
stand out. And I think the best way, very honestly,
(25:02):
is to be yourself in this process, to let us
know the things that you value in your life thus far,
the things that you're looking for in an institution like ours.
Boston College gives students the opportunity, in addition to the
common application essays to respond to one of four supplemental
(25:24):
prompts that are very much tied to our values as
an institution, our mission as a Jesuit Catholic university, and
those questions for us are probably the most enlightening part
of the application in many instances, because you can't fill
out the responses to our questions and have them make
(25:45):
sense at other institutions, so you really have to do
your homework. They do require some discernment upfront, but don't
try to be something that you're not. I think oftentimes
students might visit BC and they learn about the fact
that we're a Jesuit university and we value UH, you know,
students that look to use their education for the greater
(26:06):
good and want to be involved in service UH, and
many of our students do that. That doesn't mean that
we're only looking for students that have been involved with
certain service in high school, right. We are looking to
bring together a class with a wide range of backgrounds
and talents. So I if doing service has been part
of your identity, then then tell us all about it.
(26:27):
But don't go out and join a service club this
this fall just because you think it will look good
on a college essay, college application. Tell us the things
that you do, uh, and trust that we're going to
be looking to take those talents that you have and
and see how they might fit into a greater class
of students from around the country and throughout the world.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Than rarely. Don't go away. You got to talk to
from Harvard too, Bill fit Simmons. I know that you
have talked about this before on this program in the
context of kids who go off on a one week
trip to build a house in Columbia or whatever, while
(27:10):
at the same time there are great opportunities for service
in their own community. You folks are not impressed. I
think that the I don't know the distinction of going
five thousand miles from home to spend a week building something.
I think the novelty of that maybe has worn off.
Or am I did I misread you? No?
Speaker 5 (27:32):
I think you bring an important point to the right
out for people to consider. I mean, not everyone can afford,
of course, to travel hundreds of thousands of miles, you know,
to do such a project. Now there are people who
can afford it and who do it for all the
right reasons. We're in a great deal and are better
(27:53):
for it, but there are also ways to help out.
Write in your own family, right your own neighborhood, right
in your own community, your own high school. You know
things closer to home that that you could make a
real difference. So, Riley, you've already told us kind of
(28:14):
an interesting story. You've got a mother who went to
school in Boston. You know something about Boston from her.
You know about Virginia, I mean your region of the
country we call mid Atlantic at an area where I've
traveled to quite a bit in my recruiting along. I
have one recruiting group Georgetown, Penn, Duke, and Stanford. I've
(28:35):
got another one Yale, Princeton and UVA and a whole
bunch of different I won't go through our travel groups,
but we we hit your area very hard and we
get some really wonderful students that it sounds to me
as though you in some ways have kind of a
special story to tell. And you can tell up through
(28:55):
your common application essay, of course, and as Grant said,
you can also tell up through our supplementary questions, and
we have five of them, including one where we try
to ask you to think about it. Was there a
time you and someone else disagreed strongly about a particular issue,
and how did you talk about it, How did you
(29:17):
resolve your differences? And what did you go what did
you learn from that? It's one of the issues that
we're trying to get people to think about. To be
able to talk about difference, you know, we've got to
give free speech and intellectual vitality I think are very
very important, and I think in a world that is
complex and requires, I think compromise on everyone's part. How
(29:42):
can you you know? How will you perhaps mean? One
of our five questions has to do with what kind
of a roommate will you be? It's the last of
our five questions. We ask you about the future, We
ask you about your your extracurricular stuff and community stuff.
But the reality is you have a unique story to
(30:02):
tell about who you are and why you might be
interested in going to college in the Boston area. So
they always say, right about something you care about and
something you know about, And it sounds to me as
though you have both. And so you can tell this
story and you'll be able to make your case about
(30:23):
how you can how you might be a person who
could make a real difference to others during your time
at BC or at Harvard and maybe make a real
difference to the world later.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Rollie, you got some great suggestions. We had a student
a couple of years ago, more than a couple of
years ago, been seven or eight years ago, Bill Fitzimmons.
You might remember her dad called in and said that
she had had a rough sophomore year, but her grades
and the other years were pretty john good. And I
(30:56):
think it was you, Bill who had the the insight
to ask, well, what caused the drop? And her mom
had died during that year. And the point that you made,
and I hope you remember it, Bill, was that that
was a great topic for her to talk about the
terrible loss, but you know how she was able to,
(31:18):
you know, bounce back in her junior and senior year.
So everyone has a story, they just have to dig
down and figure out what that story is, and hers
was a very appealing story. I hope you recall this conversation. Oh,
I do.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
And you know there have been COVID has created so
many tragic stories within families and within communities as well.
I don't think the country has come close to recovering
from COVID yet, and the young people whose talents were
not as well developed during that time. But nor your
(31:54):
memory is as always dan perfect And that's I mean.
And I will just say myself. You know, as I
was going through high school, middle school especially, there were
some issues and perhaps I was also spending a little
bit too much time playing ice hockey. But you know,
whatever the reasons, I ended up not doing as well
(32:17):
as I had hoped in my first ninth grade. So
I'm now an expert in ninth grade. So I was
very lucky enough to be able to repeat the ninth
grade at Archbishop Williams and Braintree. Uh And that made
an enormous difference in my life. I had a chance
to start over and and and you know, there was
(32:37):
a story there, and I think again, you've got to
tell your own story and and create in your in
your truth, I think will win out in the ends.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Rolly, great call. Thanks for having the courage to call
uh I boy. I'll tell you if I was in
a missions director at any school in the country, someone
who had the courage to do what you did tonight.
And you're awfully well spoken. You are very very well spoken.
I suspect you're going to be a strong candidate wherever
you apply. Thank you so much, Thank.
Speaker 8 (33:07):
You very much. Thank you for all the advice. I'm
looking forward to telling my story about becoming a Navy nurse.
The advice on Rossy was super helpful too well.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Sound good. Let us know if you apply.
Speaker 8 (33:18):
All right, I'd like to hear Riley good night.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
We'll take a very quick break, coming right back. Got
a couple more calls we're going to get to. I
think tonight's been one of our better shows. We've had
a lot of good ones over the years, and I
think we're going to finish strong tonight in the final
ten minutes. Coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Now back to Dan Ray Mine from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Let's keep rolling here. I got three callers, going to
try to get them all in. Let me go to
Jovanna in Newburyport. Jovannah next on Night's Side with Grant
Goslin and Bill Fitzimmons. Go right ahead, Jovanna. Hi.
Speaker 7 (33:54):
My mom actually called earlier Joy Moy and she recommended
I come and ask my question.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Are you a student?
Speaker 7 (34:02):
Yeah, I'm a junior in high school right now. I
go to from Long Island, but I go to a
boarding school up in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Okay, go right ahead. We're just really tied on time,
So whatever you I wish you had called earlier, but
we'll get you. We'll get your question in. Go ahead.
Speaker 7 (34:16):
Yeah. So, like my mom said, she had a lot
of opportunities at BC and now going to the college process,
I was wondering how many colleges should I be applying to,
because I know when she was, you know, a senior
in high school, she applied to six or seven. But
now I'm hearing from outside sources that it should be
more than twelve, maybe fifteen. What do you recommend?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
How many?
Speaker 7 (34:37):
How many do you think I've applied to to get
the best opportunity.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Let the experts recommend, but I think you pick four
or five and good and good ones that you would
intend to go to. Don't don't, don't look at it
as an Olympic competition. Go ahead, Grant or Bill, whichever
would like to take that, go get them.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Yeah, you know, Jovanna, I don't think there's a real
easy answer to this question. I think the first piece
of this is to take a careful look at the
list of schools that you have and do an honest
assessment about the selectivity of those institutions. If you're applying
only to schools that have single digit admit rates, that
(35:15):
might be a challenge for you down the road if
things don't work out of those schools. I think if
you have a balanced list and you're certainly reaching for
some schools that it might be aspirational or you know,
might be a bit of a reach. Or also having
some schools that are pretty you're pretty confident you'll earn
admission to and some you're absolutely sure that's going to
(35:37):
be an option. I think that's going to take some
of the pressure off from feeling the need to apply
to fifteen colleges. I think a well designed college search
doesn't have to include that many. You know, and the
reality is that the average admit rate into a four
year degree program in the United States is about seventy percent.
(35:58):
And here in the Northeast we have so many really
strong schools that have very selective admission processes that sometimes
you can become a little disillusioned at the college process,
thinking that it's impossible to earn admission. So my advice is,
have a well balanced list and you can get away
with applying to a smaller.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Number, Billy, any other information I suggest you like that?
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Well, I thought Grant summed it up beautifully.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
All right, thank you, Jovanna A good question and best
of luck.
Speaker 7 (36:32):
Okay, thank you so much, thank you, thank.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
You very much. So we go to Paul in Plymouth. Paul,
you gotta be quick for me. I got one other
caller as well.
Speaker 9 (36:39):
Go ahead, Paul, Hi, gentlemen. I just wanted to thank
mister Goslin because back in the eighties, I got out
of the service out of the coast and I went
to Massasoyt and I applied to After getting out of there,
I applied to ec U, mass Amherst and Bridge Rawer.
I got kept it at all three. Ec offered me
(36:59):
a wonderful whole scholarship and this and that and uh,
but I couldn't afford to live on campus. They had
no on campus housing at the time, so I ended
up going to UMass. I had a great experience out there,
but I never sent a thank you note to BC.
So it's a long related thank you, and I appreciate
that it was a nice thing for folks to do.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well.
Speaker 9 (37:21):
Thank yeah, thank.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
You, thank you for your service and thank you for
being a gentleman. Thanks, Paul, I got to get one more.
Speaker 9 (37:30):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Good night now, Mary, good night, Merry Christmas. Do you
as well? George and New Bedford. George, you're gonna wrap
it for us. We got a little tight on time.
Go right ahead, George.
Speaker 10 (37:40):
Yes. I wonder if anybody.
Speaker 11 (37:41):
At Harvard is responsible for informing interested students and what
the dropout rate is for the bachelor's program, uh, those
who frunk.
Speaker 10 (37:54):
Out, those who drop out, those who transfer. And then finally,
is anybody possible beer for informing people with a definite
career agenda and program what the placement rates are in
jobs and how soon after they get it?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Okay, Bill.
Speaker 5 (38:17):
Story here for New Bedford and for the world, we
typically have among the very highest graduation rate in the country.
Typically it's ninety seven ninety eight percent, so very few
people end up dropping out, as it turns out. And
the other thing is that over time, and especially recently
(38:38):
because of the Mignoni family, we have a brand new
career center, the Minone Center for Career Success, which helps
people who are interested in any number of different careers
that in almost any career you can imagine, and for
that matter of careers that haven't even been invented yet.
So it's a really great story BC or Harvard or
(39:03):
places like it. Great, very very high graduation rates, very
low dropout rates, and very good things happening after college.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
And I'm sure great the story is very similar at
PC in terms of the loss of students from a
freshman to senior year.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
It is.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Yeah, we have, you know, the best majority of well
of a ninety percent of our students graduating from BC
and at most recent survey, ninety six percent of students
within six months meeting with success, whether that's going to
the workforce or a graduate school.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
And I'm sure that you guys have some great placement
programs and career guidance counseling.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
You sure do, We sure do.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Gentlemen, gentlemen, this was a great two hours. Bill Fitzimmons,
thank you very much for number eighteen. Let's see if
we can hit nineteen a year from now. But I
know you're a little bit on the disabled list tonight.
You held up for the two.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
Hours, man, I no, no, this was great, And yeah,
we're going to shoot for nineteen and and and kind
of go from there as they say, you know I yeah,
you're right. It was diagnosed on Saturday with COVID, and
after one really bad day, things have been all on
the upward trend. So thank you. If my voice didn't
(40:22):
sound quite the same as usual, I apologize.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
No, it sounded fine. I hope that your docs. I
introduced you to pax Clovid because that helped me a
couple of years ago. Immensely. That's between you and your doctors,
but it really worked for me, and I hope you
get a quick recovery. Grint. As always, thank you very much.
Look forward to the BC Nebraska football game at Yankee
Stadium for what they call it the Christmas Bowl down there.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
For that one, we'll call it Christmas Ball. I think
it's a pinstripe Bowl. But looking forward to a great game.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah, and I'm predicted BC he beats the Huscars, that's
for sure. Gentlemen. I can't thank you enough on behalf
of every one of my audience tonight, and of course
this is available. Both of these hours will be put
up on podcast form tonight at nightside on demand shortly
after the program is over by our great producer Rob Brooks.
So this will be replayed by many, many students and
(41:21):
many many families around the country. Both Bill and Grant.
I'm indebted to you deeply on behalf of my audience.
Thank you, gentlemen, and have great.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
Aank you Dan for being such a champion of higher education.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
My pleasure. Merry Christmas to both you and yours and
your families and to your student bodies who celebrate whoever
celebrates Christmas. Thanks guys, Talk to you soon.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yeah bye bye.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Here we go where I'm heading to the other side
of the ten o'clock news, and we are going to
get back to a more regular fear. Of course, the
big story today is the arrest of the twenty six
year old in al Tuna, Pennsylvania. He is a strong
suspect not yet charged in the murder, but I think
the writing's on the wall. Back after the ten here
on nightside,
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