December 19, 2024 • 39 mins
Everett Mayor Carlo DeMaria and his attorney Jeff Robbins joined us to discuss the $1.1 million dollar settlement that Mayor DeMaria has received from a local newspapers for the unjustified, libelous charges made against the Mayor by the publisher and editor of the Everett Leader Herald newspaper.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's night side when Dan Ray on WBS cast Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thank you Nicole. Yes, I am back, and I first
of all want to just explain what went on yesterday.
I want to thank Morgan White who pinched hit for
me yesterday. Morgan is always there to back me up,
and I really appreciate what he did yesterday. I got
hit with something like Monday into Tuesday, and I wasn't
(00:32):
quite sure what it was. I tested myself for COVID,
came back negative. Actually dealt with my doctor and I
explained that lots of felt like fluids and my lungs,
did a chest X ray, wasn't sure, wasn't sure. I
think we've kind of settled on it was a bad
case of bronchitis. You'll hear it in my voice. I
(00:53):
apologized to everyone. I tried to do a nightside post
game on Tuesday night Wednesday morning, and I had taken
a niquill medication, just over the counter medication, and I
literally was falling asleep as I was doing them. I
just realized that I was exhausted. I slept sixteen hours
(01:16):
yesterday and I'm still not one hundred percent. Hopefully you
won't hear me cough as much as I've been coughing.
But again it's a cautionary tale for all of us,
me included, to take better care of ourselves. I think
this was the first sick day I've had in several years.
I think of the last time I actually had a
sick day. So I've been blessed with good health, blessed
(01:39):
to have Morgan as someone who they get on moment's notice,
and I just wanted to say thanks to him, and
thanks to all of you, And let me tell you,
Tuesday night, I was struggling and at some point I thought,
well try this night quill stuff. I'm not a big
niquill guy, to be really honest with you, it hit
(02:00):
me like a ton of breaks about quarter midnight. So
apologies to all, apologies around, and again great appreciation of Morgan.
So we will be talking later on tonight with the
WBC Car guys. From ten to midnight, Larry and Scott
Reubenstein will join us answering all of your automotive questions.
(02:20):
At nine o'clock to night, we'll talk with Joey Noon,
also known as Joey Voices. Had him on the show before.
He's a great entertainer, and I think we'll have some
fun with him. But the first hour tonight, I'm delighted
to welcome two people who I know very well, the
Mayor of Everett, Carlo Demiria de Maria, and his attorney,
Jeff Robins. And some of you may have read in
(02:41):
the newspaper that Mayor d Maria won a settlement in
a really vicious set of circumstances. He won one point
one million dollars in a settlement against a local newspaper
(03:03):
in Everett, the Everett Leader Herald newspaper, which not only
agreed to pay the one point one million dollars in
a settlement, but they also agreed to cease publication after
one hundred and thirty nine years as part of the
deal with us. There is also Jeff Robbins, As I said,
Mayor de Maria's attorney on this, let me start with you,
(03:27):
Jeff very quickly, that I want to have the mayor
tell the story. This is an extraordinary outcome. For those
in the audience who are not familiar with the case
law in this area, there's a case out of New
York in the nineteen sixties called New York Times versus suttlement,
which makes it very difficult for a public figure, of
(03:47):
which the mayor is a public figure, to win anything
in a case like this. Can you explain that in
terms that my audience will understand. I think it was
a bad decision in nineteen sixty I think it was
nineteen sixty two. Although it protected people like me in
the media, I think it ovally protects us well. Dan.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
First of all, thanks for having me, having both of
us on, and it's great to have you back. You
are the cal Ripken, the Luke Garrick of broadcast journalism.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So I like to think of yourself as the Wall.
I like to think of myself as the Wally Pip.
I'm always gonna so.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Well.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Whenever you're not on on a weeknight, a tremor goes
through the broadcast journalism community. So welcome back. It is
an unusual case. You're right. There was a Supreme Court
case called New York Times versus Sullivan, actually out of Alabama.
It arose in Alabama, and it's a case which ended
(04:45):
up holding. Though you're right that it was kind of
a twisted and tortured case in certain respects that in
order for a public figure to win a defamation case,
that public figure had to show not only the usual
elements of a defamation claim that there was a falsehood
and that it defamed somebody and did that person damage,
(05:08):
but that it was uttered with what's called actual malice,
which is, in brief, either the person publishing it knows
that what's being published as false or publishes in reckless
disregard of whether or not it's true or false, And
so is commonly said, the public figures have a difficult
(05:29):
time winning defamation cases because of that elevated standard.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
By the way the.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
Case the case set up, this is a sheriff from
Alabama who is not the nicest guy in the world,
and he's suing the New York Times, and the New
York Times was able to win that case against someone who.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Was not a nice person from what I have read
about Sheriff Sullivan.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Well, that's you're right. So much as aught about that case,
it does arise, and we'll get back to the mayor's situation.
The case arose from an advertisement to paid advertisement published
in the New York Times, which had all sorts of
falsehoods in it, and the Times did nothing to fact
(06:18):
check the advertisement, even though they're being paid money to
publish it. And so, as you say, the case held
that a plaintiff such as the person suing, had to
show by clear and convincing evidence, if that person were
a public figure, that what was published was not only
false intofamatory, but was published essentially knowingly. And so it's
(06:40):
a high standard, and therefore it's uncommon for plaintiffs who
are public figures to win these cases.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
So the plaintiff who you represented, Mayor Dean Maria, went
through years, years of unfair allegations. It became almost a
uh a personal war against him. Mayor Gean Maria, tell
us what it was like. You're the mayor. You've been
elected and re elected in in effort for many years.
(07:11):
But there was a couple of elections that there was
an effort apparently by these uh the owner of this
newspaper and it's publisher and editor uh to take you
out whatever, whatever whatever the cost, right right, Uh, Hi
(07:31):
dam and Jeff, how I how you guys doing tonight?
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Than? Uh, thank you again for having us on. Yeah,
like yourself, I'm a little onto the weather myself with
that same type of uh food conditions. So if I
found a little off myself. It's uh, I think I'm
think I think something's going around, uh Dan, Yeah, but
uh yeah, you know, for about so prior. I mean
(07:58):
basically they bought the newspaper and I believe was twenty seventeen,
twenty eighteen. For four years, they just you know, week
after week they began with satire and then they ended
with you know, we have the facts, this is all true.
This is uh you know, we have witnesses, we have sources,
(08:19):
and they just I mean from you name it, they
said it. It was. It was awful. I mean they
they you know, we get to after we began the
lawsuit we set up. You know, it takes me away
from important things, but I just want to kill this
guy or take him out. You know. It was it
was truly awful. I mean, Jeff can definitely do a
(08:41):
better job. But you know what I went through, My
family went through, my children went through you know some
of the some of some of this stuff. Actually josh
Resnik was in working with Andrew Esties from the Boston
Globe and she was using him as her sources for
some of her stories. You know, it was, it was,
(09:03):
it was, It was terrible. Just when I went through,
my family went through.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I mean, yeah, I think one of the stories that
I heard was that at one point your dad came
to you and he made a comment, which had to
be a frightening comment that if any of this was true,
well he said something like, then you're not my son,
or something like that. I mean, it was.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Devastating, Yeah, it was. It was devastating. You know. My
dad was, you know, former carabinarian Italy, came to America
in the late sixties to follow his sweetheart to America.
You know, he had a great life in Italy, but
came to America. My mother came to America first. Uh
so he you know, I mean his English isn't the greatest,
(09:49):
but he did read. You know, back when we were
growing up, Lead the Herald was you know, run by
the Canine family, who did a great job running the newspaper.
You know, it was a legitimate newspaper. You know, everybody
relied on the newspapers, one of the only papers in
the city. And as you know, it was one hundred
year of paper.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Year old paper, one hundred thirty nine year old paper.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Wow, yeah, it was. It was actually a really I
mean it was it's unfortunate that this family purchased his
paper for the mere reason just destroy my reputation. And
that's what they did. They bought this paper. They actually,
to the tune of about one hundred and fifty thousand
tred thousand a year used uh subplanted, I guess, so
(10:33):
used outside fund to keep it operational, just to uh
ruin my reputation. But so my dad, you know, he,
like you said, it came came to America, came to
Edward in nineteen sixty nine or sixty seven and read
this paper weekly. You know, that's just his This is
what he That's pretty much the only paper he read.
So he, you know, thought it was you know, and everybody,
(10:56):
even all the old timers and the say, a lot
of people turned against me thinking was being written in
this paper was true because everyone thinks, if it's just
a paper, it has to be true, right. The press
doesn't lie the press, The press just reports. Well, we
know that's not the case. So you know, one day,
you know what I mean, after you know, as a
continuously writing these articles and you know, and it stops stopping.
(11:20):
You know, my dad says to me, you know, this
is this is true? You know, you're not my son,
you know, and I said that, you know, yeah, this
is not true. You know, this is all false, It's
all made up. And well, how can they keep writing
this stuff? How come no one's you know, he's thinking
the government will come in and step in and shut
it down. Realize that I have to I have to,
(11:41):
I have to take a suit, you know, and that's
when you know in Matthew, it was October of twenty one.
You know, I brought Jeff Robins on Saul E Ring,
who did a remarkable job. I mean, you know, it's
kind of sad in the way that we didn't go
to trial. I was really anticipating watching Jeff's and Joe
and Page do their thing. I mean, you might other
information we had. Uh it was just incredible. I mean,
(12:05):
you know, it's it's just just uh, it would have
been it would have been great to see them uh
put this on.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
But uh, you know, the settlement speaks, speaks volumes. Mayor
let me take a pause here because we've got to
take up a commercial commercial break. We can back, Jeff.
I'd like to get into how you were able to
get all of these notes and information in which they
basically in depositions, they admitted everything that you needed. It
(12:31):
seems to me. We'll take a break back with Everett
Mayor Carlo d Maria UH and his attorney Jeff Robbins
is with now a very significant firm in town Saul Ewing,
and Jeff is the first Amendment lawyer. You know him
from this program from many other issues. He and I
feel very strongly on the issue with Israel UH and
(12:51):
the need for that country to to be able to
defend itself and for us to back that country. But
this is a different issue. With Jeff Robbins and Mayor
Carlo Di Maria tonight on Nightside, We'll be right back
if you'd like to join the conversation or like to
actually congratulate either of both of these men, because what
they did this is a long odds to win. With
(13:12):
a backdrop of New York Times versus Sullibon and give
us a call six one seven two five four ten
thirty or six one seven ninety three one ten thirty
back on Nightside right after the break.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
We're talking with Everett Mayor Carlo de Maria uh also
with his attorney Jeff Robbins, they have just settled a
defamation suit against the Everett Leader Herald newspaper for one
point one million dollars.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Jeff, Yes, that's fine, We're good now. Jeff, tell me,
how were you able to basically, through depositions, get all
of the information that you need to bring this defendant
in affected their knees and to a point where they're
willing to pay one point one million dollars and shut
(14:09):
down a thirty nine year old.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Well, well, you know, I always think about this famous line,
this supposed the story about the kid that asked John
Kennedy how he became a war hero, and supposedly he replied,
it was easy. They sank my boat. Well you know this, this,
(14:32):
this wasn't easy because, as you know, Dan is a lawyer.
This process is very arduous, full of fights over who
has to turn over what material, endless battles with a
court to get a judge to require to compel people
to turn over documents, emails, texts, and other records that
(14:55):
they don't want to turn over. It's a very expensive process.
It's a very time consuming process. It's a very dispiriting process.
It's built, as you know, and now, as the Mayor
also knows, built into our legal system, for better or
for worse. It requires a lot of effort. In those
who can't find somebody to do it'll never have the
(15:17):
chance to vindicate their rights. A long way of saying
that this process required the Leader Herald and its owner
and its editor publisher to turn over literally hundreds of
thousands of pages of emails and texts. And the hard
work was done by colleagues of mine, Joe lipshitson Page Strader,
(15:41):
who spent a lot of time we all did going
through these things and found documents that were simply amazing.
They were This is all a matter of public records,
so I'm not saying anything which isn't emails. As the
mayor said that said, you know, we're going to carry
this guy. We're going to crush this guy. We're devastating
(16:03):
this guy. We're administering a holocaust to this guy. He
can never survive this. We're going to issue an atomic attack.
And there were literally hundreds of emails and texts like that.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
In addition, how are you, yeah, how are you able
to prove that? They also knew that they just weren't
simply mistaken that they knew that what they would do.
They must have had some admissions in there that they're
making this stuff up.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Well, you're right. The deposition again all matter public record.
The deposition of each of these in the two individuals
lasted for many days, and over the course of the deposition,
in particular of mister Resnik, the editor and publisher, he
came to admit that he had no basis for making
(16:57):
the allegations that he made, that he could identify any
basis that he had fabricated them. And moreover, with respect
to one series of particularly damning stories, he ended up admitting,
having first testified falsely that he'd conducted interviews and he'd
(17:18):
kept notes, he ended up admitting that actually there were
no notes. There were no interviews, and there were no notes,
and that what he did was after the lawsuit was
filed against him, and after he'd been suboena to turnover notes,
he made copies. He went into a notebook and wrote
down stuff after the fact to make it look as
(17:38):
though there were notes when they weren't. He admitted that
he had concocted quotes which he had falsely attributed to
somebody who swears that he never said them, and on
and on it went. Every time he turned around, there
was more of that. There were emails that he'd sent
about collecting cash, thousands of dollars of cash from opponents
(18:00):
of the mayor for the purpose of funding what he
himself said was an effort to drive the mayor out
of office by sort of adding thousands and thousands of copies,
printing thousands and thousands of extra copies and delivering them
door to door for the purpose of What he said
clearly was, you know, driving the mayor out of office.
(18:22):
So the whole purpose of the paper, Yeah, this.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Was a journalistic hit job. What was the motive it was?
Was the motive to increase the circulation or was it
more of a personal motive that they said, we got
a guy here, let's let's you know, he's a target
rich environment, let's make him a target rich environment. Why, Well,
it sounds to me like how do you keep those
(18:46):
lies straight?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Well, you've asked several good questions there. The first one
is one which a lot of people ask. And again
I'm not speculating here, I'm simply telling you about what
some of the evidences that's on the public record in court.
There was testing moaning from the editor publisher that the
family that owned the paper, mister Philpin, who had an
insurance business, that had had prior contracts with the City
(19:09):
of Boston which the mayor didn't continue, who had rooming
houses and other real estate projects with the city of Everort.
Sorry did I say anything else? City ever and he
City of Everett, and he felt that the mayor was
not sufficiently favorable to the business interests of the family.
(19:31):
There's a text in which that that is what this
individual said, that he understood very clearly that his boss
wanted the mayor defeated, and that was the purpose of
the publication of the newspaper with what the evidence was.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Thank god that Mayor de Maria was able to withstand this.
I know that there was one election that turned out
to be substantially closer than anyone would have expected. We'll
talk about that, and we'll continue to talk with Everett
Mayor Carlo di Maria and his very competent attorney, his
(20:09):
defamation lawyer, Jeff Robbins of saul Ewing LLP. This is
this is a good day for journalism because there is
within the journalistic community still people like this, people like
the Alex Joneses of the world, who will do anything.
He's the guy that said that the massacre in Newtown,
(20:29):
Connecticut at that school was made up. There. I just
think that, Look, I'm the journalist, but a journalist for
a long time, but this is well deserved. If you'd
like to join the conversation, ask a question if you're
from Everett, Field free six one's seven, two five, four
ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
We'll continue with our conversation learning a little bit about
(20:52):
defamation law and then in the context of this case
against the backdrop of a very famous federal case New
York Times Sullivan, We'll be back on night Side right
after this.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
We're talking about an interesting case which Everett Mayor Carlo
di Maria was defamed by a local newspaper and by
the editor and publisher of that newspaper over a long
period of time. And uh and it was some very brutal,
brutal comments that were made and Mayor Dean Maria, this
(21:33):
had to take a toll on you. And on your family.
There was one race I forget what, I forget what
year it was, which you almost lost in large part
because of the lives that this newspaper was spreading.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Oh yeah, yeah. They they actually at one time they
put on a ten week campaign from about a month
prior to the primary and after the primary up to
the election. It was week after week, every Wednesday, delivered
to every home in the city, and they just, uh
(22:07):
the lies were you know, extortion, uh, kickbacks, demily, a
crime family, uh, quid pro quo, uh, settling, all kinds
of harassment, lawsuits with females, put a knife to a girl. Stroke.
It was it was. It was awful. I mean it
was like week after week after week lies and uh
(22:29):
you know, so you know, it was it was just
it was just a U yeah, it was. It was awful.
I mean it was completely awful. Yeah. Someone just actually
interrupted me and I was talking here.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
It none of this had any you know, look, if
if you had had a let's say something like a
car accident, okay, and let's assume that there was some
little in situation where you yelled at the other guy, hey,
why'd you do? And if they had something to work
on that was genuine, but just make stuff up out
of whole cloth and then try to basically drive you
(23:06):
out of office.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah, that's right. I mean you were saying it was close. Yeah,
I mean, you think about it, Daan, if a hundred
people changed am I on that election, I would have
been out of office, disgraced. People would have believed this newspaper.
They would have continuously still writing all this awful, terrible stuff.
I wouldn't have the ability to have, you know, filed
this lawsuit against them. Yeah. I mean, you know we
(23:32):
were pulling prior to you know, they they really ramped
it up in twenty twenty one. I mean that last
year prior to my election, they rarely ramped it up.
I mean, the the lies were awful, so bad that
I mean I was in a bad place mentally, truly
(23:52):
was because you know, people were believing it. People were
sharing the articles with friends, you know, family members, people,
you know. I would see my neighbors were asking me,
you know, we're questioning everything I was doing. I mean
it was terrible. I mean I talked about how my
father asked me that question, you know, I mean he
(24:12):
wrote it so that you know that you know it
was as a matter of fact, you know these there
was a matter of fact. We have sources, we have
people interviewing with us. You know, it was it was, Yeah,
it was something godly awful.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
And I mean the media and Jeff can get it
in this as well. The media has tremendous powers in
this country, Okay, to influence elections. Different case, different story,
But obviously had the Alex Jones case, the nut job
down in Texas who was basically saying the horror that
(24:49):
he visited upon the families of those kids and parents
of the six school teachers and the twenties children who
were massacred on that horrific decevery day. He did it
to basically make him a bigger and bolder a political figure.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
George Stephanopolis has been suited. Apparently ABC has agreed and
helped me out here, Jeff on this one. I believe
that ABC, in a similar fashion, has agreed to a
settlement to pay fifteen million dollars to the Donald Trump
Library because Stephanopolos is apparently saying something about Donald Trump
(25:27):
which was factually incorrect, continued to say it even after
his producers cautioned him not to say that that Trump
had been convicted of rape when I mean, the power
of the media is incredible, but it cannot it cannot
be used in a way in which it can be
it can be used to destroy people's lives.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Well, yeah, you're absolutely right. The ABC settlement was fifteen
million dollars. And you can see the interview in which
George Stefanopolis, in the process of interviewing Congress Will and Mace,
says I think at least four times that Donald Trump
was found libel for rape, which actually is not true.
(26:10):
The jury slip specifically said that they did not find
him liable for rape. And your point, though the larger one,
is a very good one. There is, on one hand,
this absolutely crucial need, crucial need for the First Amendment
to be robust and to protect a free press, especially
visa the government. But on the other hand, as you
also say, there is a potential for terrible abusive power,
(26:34):
just like there's a terrible potential for abuseive power in
every other entity enterprise in American life. There's that capacity
for massive abuse of power, given how much power the
press has, if people are cocky or or dishonest, or
are too interested in clicks and shares to be focused
(26:56):
on printing the truth.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I think that the social media, the arrival of social media,
and it inundates our lives these days. Jeff, and I'm
just curious if you think that has contributed to the
sort of wild west attitude that maybe this small newspaper
it ever had towards mayor de Marine.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Absolutely, and wild west is absolutely the perfect phrase for it.
That is what the media landscape is. More and more
and more, it's pretty much, you know, everybody is a
media entity, unto himself or herself. There's an enormous pressure
to get clicks and shares and attention. It's also part
of American culture, and it also drives every media enterprise large, small,
(27:40):
medium sized to get out there and grab attention. And
if that means being reckless or clever or pandering to
a particular segment, well then that's what they do. There
are some people who feel as though that that's their
financial model, you know, So you're right.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
I just think it's there has to be a clear
demarcation between I will read op ed columns, you're writing
an op ed column. There are people going to disagree
with your op ed piece, your conclusion. I don't, but
but others will.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
And that's what the op ed page is all about.
But when you start putting out something as factual and
putting out in the concept this is a news I'm
reporting this as a newsperson as opposed to this is
my opinion.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Uh. That's that's where where the line becomes very, very shaky.
And that's where I think this guy Resnick went way
over that line. And obviously the newspaper's out of business.
What what's the what is the papers plan? Are they
going to come back in some other entity at this point?
Or does does Everett going to have another newspaper mayor
(28:49):
what's is there any idea what you know? Obviously, Everett
is a big city that is a lot smaller than Boston,
and you got the Globe in the Herald, But it's
also good to have a local newspaper for as well. Correct.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
We have two other local newspapers that do it good,
decent enough job to report what's going on in the city.
Speaker 6 (29:09):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
You know, we put what's currency, not create Uh you
know what's going on in the city, right. Uh. And
that's the problem with the press I think today is
that every time you listen to a different news station
and you read a different article, it's it's uh, it's
their opinions. You know, no one's reporting anymore. That's how
I see it. I mean, it's just between the social
(29:32):
media and and you know that that's why you see
so many people that are depressed, children that are pressed families.
I mean, it's just bad. I mean it's it's it's
a bad time and it's unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
But the best example, I think right now, and maybe
Jeff to come up with a better one, is this guy,
Alex Jones has a tremendous that's awful. A lot of
people are can He doesn't say it's his opinion. He
basically blusters and said, no, this was set up, this
was this was a this was a false flag. Uh,
(30:09):
these children weren't, weren't massacred. This He basically made it
sound like a Hollywood movie. And he wasn't saying it's
his opinion. He's saying it's fact. And and he was
sued Jeff, thankfully, and I think that eventually his whole
media empire will collapse and and he and he deserves it.
(30:29):
I mean, this guy made no this just as somebody
who takes journalism kind of seriously. I look at this
guy and I think, what an impostor he's He pretends
he's a journalist, but he's anything but a journalist.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
And obviously there's a lot of people like that.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah. No, no one worse than him though, in terms
of in terms of ye in size and and and
the damage that he that he did. Let's take a
quick break, gentlemen. I want to one more with you,
and again, if folks want to call in, I'd love
to hear from you. Six thirty Jeff. As you know,
whenever we talk legal issuers, a lot of people are
intimidated and they want to listen to what you and
(31:11):
the mayor has to say. But folks can certainly call
in if they'd like. Six one, seven, nine, three thirty.
Coming right back on the Nightside.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I'm WBZ News Radio. It's got a couple of phone
calls in here. Let me go to Joe in Everett. Joe,
welcome to Nightside. Appreciate you calling in your first this
hour Nightside. Joe.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Hey, Dan, I'm an Everett resident. I just want the
meet and know that the people have ever support him,
whether it's getting new sidewalks. I live on Woodward Street.
You know enough, that's enough with these people, these crazy people.
You know, you had a tough time in the school
department with the crazies in the school department and now
this thing. So the people have evert support him, and
I hope he run for reelection again.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Well, thank you right there, go ahead, Mayor.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Thanks Joe. I appreciate that. It means a lot. I
appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So when you rather, Mayor, what do you what's realize
is a two year term? You have a four year trim.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Uh no, the four year term and uh reelection would
be next year, would.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Be twenty twenty five. What are you thinking?
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Let's make some news, you know what you know, leaning
towards running for reelection right now? You know this is
definitely putting this behind us and shut down the leader
Harold uh for good. Uh is a great start, and
you definitely didn't want to go through that again. Having that,
you know that news shaper and business and writing and stuff.
(32:34):
That's it's writing, you know, you know, we feel very
optimistic about running it again, and you know, papers to
come out in the springtime. So right now, I'm just
trying to you know, it's it's been a long road. Uh,
just kind of really just you know, realizing that.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
You have a right to take it. You have a
right to take a big deep breath, uh and realize
that that at the end of this things worked out
really well. And I suspect that if you did decide
to run for reelection in view of what has happened, uh,
that that you'd be that you be returned pretty easily.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
What you definitely have a lot of projects to get done.
There's a lot of a lot of things that we
want to get done right Uh. You know that that
pedestrian footbridge from Assemble Row over to the Encore Casino.
We're trying to get phase two off the ground, the stadium.
I have a new high school we're trying to get built,
trying to work with the governor, now the te they
(33:34):
get a couple of commuterial stops in the area. But
there is a lot of work to get done. And
that's one of the things that is driving me to
uh to look to run it in To be honest
with you, thank you, you care about you care about
the working class people. I just have to say that,
you really do. So I wanted to thank you. Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas, Joe, thank you my friend.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
All right, thanks Joe. Iks appreciate you calling it. So
you have served how many terms? This is finishing your
second term mayor? Is that correct? Or more?
Speaker 4 (34:03):
No? I uh, I've completed three two year terms and
this will be my third four year term.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Oh so they changed it to the four year term. Okay,
so you've been mayor there for If I'm eighteen years,
this year will be your eighteen year. If I did my.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Math, ye, this year coming up will be eighteen years correct.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Okay, Well again, keep us posted on that. I want
to just swing back to Jeff for a second. Jeff,
there's more than than just a case here.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
This has generated a lot of attention in newspapers, not
only across the America but around the world. What's the
lesson here? What? What? What? This has to stand for?
Something more than just one rogue newspaper in one city
outside of Boston. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
And I say this as somebody who is involved in journalism,
who loves journalism and journalists, who represents newspapers and media organizations.
But there is I think, as we all know, a
fair amount of mistrust more than fair, a very severe
amount of mistrust of the media in this country, clearly,
and this is the kind of case which I think
proves the point for a lot of people who think
(35:14):
that there are folks who have this power and don't
wield it in an honest way. And unfortunately there are
instances where that occurs, plenty of them. This was an
egregious example of it, and I think that's why it's
captured so much attention.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Their final comment from you, You've gone through this, It
was not fun to go through. You've emerged on the
other side with your reputation intact, and the possibility of
serving four more years in the city that you have
served so well for eighteen years. I don't want to
(35:55):
ask you was it worth it? But what's the lesson
that you took from this, this whole experience.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
The lesson that I took from this whole experience? Yeah, uh,
when you when you when you need when you need help,
call Jeff Robinson. Yeah you know, Uh, I don't know
the lesson I learned from this. It definitely, uh definitely
made me a stronger person, more resilient, person, you know,
(36:28):
you know, maybe I guess journalists out there too, you know,
have some integrity. When you're writing a story and you
know someone calls you and tells you something, and you
write a story allegations about somebody, Maybe do some more research,
you know, not don't just print something and say, oh this,
you know, allegedly this person did this or that. Do
(36:51):
the real work, you know, do the real work and
make sure you're not ruining someone's life, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
So that's a lesson that all journalists should have. Let
me get one more in here, real quickly before we
gotta before we got to break here. Let me one
last caller. Ken is checking in here. Ken, you were
next to night side your call on late. I give
you about a thirty seconds or a minute, go ahead, Ken.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
Yes. I read two books by this gentleman, Josh Wesnick,
and they're in the public library in Chelsea, and they
discussed the Chelsea fire. I think maybe the penalty was
a little harsh one the gentleman.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Well, he might have written written good books about the
Chelsea fire. Ken, But like anything else, if if you
have a great surgeon, and he's been a great surgeon,
but he does surgery on you and he screws you
up for life.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
That's that's a problem. And what he tried to do
to Carlo, to the mayor of Everett, has been proven.
What and and I think that there's a lesson for
all journalists who feel that they can basically go out
and hunt public officials as you would hunt, you know,
an animal in the woods during hunting season.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
That's not what journalists are supposed to do this.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
They're supposed to consider the the information they have, consider
their sources, check it in double checking.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Appreciate you call again nonetheless. All right, thanks very much,
Jeff Robbins, Thank you so much. Mayor Dee Maria. I
wish you a merry Christmas. I know it's going to
be a merry Christmas for you and Jeff. I wish
you and your as a happy honker, and I know
it's going to be a happy honker for your family
as well. Every once in a while, the good guys
do win, and I think of this one, the good
(38:34):
guys won. Thanks guys. I appreciate it so much.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Damn, thank you so very much.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
All Right, guys, talk to you soon. When we get back.
We're going to talk with Joey voices, a great entertainer
who is gonna have a little bit of fun right
after the nine o'clock news. Here are nights i'd stay
with us and we're gonna be doing talking with the
car guys from ten to twelve. There was someone today
who had a question about a car. I had no idea. Uh,
(39:00):
all I gotta do is call the car guys. They
will answer all your questions. Coming back on the night,
said right after this
It's night side when Dan Ray on WBS cast Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thank you Nicole. Yes, I am back, and I first
of all want to just explain what went on yesterday.
I want to thank Morgan White who pinched hit for
me yesterday. Morgan is always there to back me up,
and I really appreciate what he did yesterday. I got
hit with something like Monday into Tuesday, and I wasn't
(00:32):
quite sure what it was. I tested myself for COVID,
came back negative. Actually dealt with my doctor and I
explained that lots of felt like fluids and my lungs,
did a chest X ray, wasn't sure, wasn't sure. I
think we've kind of settled on it was a bad
case of bronchitis. You'll hear it in my voice. I
(00:53):
apologized to everyone. I tried to do a nightside post
game on Tuesday night Wednesday morning, and I had taken
a niquill medication, just over the counter medication, and I
literally was falling asleep as I was doing them. I
just realized that I was exhausted. I slept sixteen hours
(01:16):
yesterday and I'm still not one hundred percent. Hopefully you
won't hear me cough as much as I've been coughing.
But again it's a cautionary tale for all of us,
me included, to take better care of ourselves. I think
this was the first sick day I've had in several years.
I think of the last time I actually had a
sick day. So I've been blessed with good health, blessed
(01:39):
to have Morgan as someone who they get on moment's notice,
and I just wanted to say thanks to him, and
thanks to all of you, And let me tell you,
Tuesday night, I was struggling and at some point I thought,
well try this night quill stuff. I'm not a big
niquill guy, to be really honest with you, it hit
(02:00):
me like a ton of breaks about quarter midnight. So
apologies to all, apologies around, and again great appreciation of Morgan.
So we will be talking later on tonight with the
WBC Car guys. From ten to midnight, Larry and Scott
Reubenstein will join us answering all of your automotive questions.
(02:20):
At nine o'clock to night, we'll talk with Joey Noon,
also known as Joey Voices. Had him on the show before.
He's a great entertainer, and I think we'll have some
fun with him. But the first hour tonight, I'm delighted
to welcome two people who I know very well, the
Mayor of Everett, Carlo Demiria de Maria, and his attorney,
Jeff Robins. And some of you may have read in
(02:41):
the newspaper that Mayor d Maria won a settlement in
a really vicious set of circumstances. He won one point
one million dollars in a settlement against a local newspaper
(03:03):
in Everett, the Everett Leader Herald newspaper, which not only
agreed to pay the one point one million dollars in
a settlement, but they also agreed to cease publication after
one hundred and thirty nine years as part of the
deal with us. There is also Jeff Robbins, As I said,
Mayor de Maria's attorney on this, let me start with you,
(03:27):
Jeff very quickly, that I want to have the mayor
tell the story. This is an extraordinary outcome. For those
in the audience who are not familiar with the case
law in this area, there's a case out of New
York in the nineteen sixties called New York Times versus suttlement,
which makes it very difficult for a public figure, of
(03:47):
which the mayor is a public figure, to win anything
in a case like this. Can you explain that in
terms that my audience will understand. I think it was
a bad decision in nineteen sixty I think it was
nineteen sixty two. Although it protected people like me in
the media, I think it ovally protects us well. Dan.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
First of all, thanks for having me, having both of
us on, and it's great to have you back. You
are the cal Ripken, the Luke Garrick of broadcast journalism.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So I like to think of yourself as the Wall.
I like to think of myself as the Wally Pip.
I'm always gonna so.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Well.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Whenever you're not on on a weeknight, a tremor goes
through the broadcast journalism community. So welcome back. It is
an unusual case. You're right. There was a Supreme Court
case called New York Times versus Sullivan, actually out of Alabama.
It arose in Alabama, and it's a case which ended
(04:45):
up holding. Though you're right that it was kind of
a twisted and tortured case in certain respects that in
order for a public figure to win a defamation case,
that public figure had to show not only the usual
elements of a defamation claim that there was a falsehood
and that it defamed somebody and did that person damage,
(05:08):
but that it was uttered with what's called actual malice,
which is, in brief, either the person publishing it knows
that what's being published as false or publishes in reckless
disregard of whether or not it's true or false, And
so is commonly said, the public figures have a difficult
(05:29):
time winning defamation cases because of that elevated standard.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
By the way the.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
Case the case set up, this is a sheriff from
Alabama who is not the nicest guy in the world,
and he's suing the New York Times, and the New
York Times was able to win that case against someone who.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Was not a nice person from what I have read
about Sheriff Sullivan.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Well, that's you're right. So much as aught about that case,
it does arise, and we'll get back to the mayor's situation.
The case arose from an advertisement to paid advertisement published
in the New York Times, which had all sorts of
falsehoods in it, and the Times did nothing to fact
(06:18):
check the advertisement, even though they're being paid money to
publish it. And so, as you say, the case held
that a plaintiff such as the person suing, had to
show by clear and convincing evidence, if that person were
a public figure, that what was published was not only
false intofamatory, but was published essentially knowingly. And so it's
(06:40):
a high standard, and therefore it's uncommon for plaintiffs who
are public figures to win these cases.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
So the plaintiff who you represented, Mayor Dean Maria, went
through years, years of unfair allegations. It became almost a
uh a personal war against him. Mayor Gean Maria, tell
us what it was like. You're the mayor. You've been
elected and re elected in in effort for many years.
(07:11):
But there was a couple of elections that there was
an effort apparently by these uh the owner of this
newspaper and it's publisher and editor uh to take you
out whatever, whatever whatever the cost, right right, Uh, Hi
(07:31):
dam and Jeff, how I how you guys doing tonight?
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Than? Uh, thank you again for having us on. Yeah,
like yourself, I'm a little onto the weather myself with
that same type of uh food conditions. So if I
found a little off myself. It's uh, I think I'm
think I think something's going around, uh Dan, Yeah, but
uh yeah, you know, for about so prior. I mean
(07:58):
basically they bought the newspaper and I believe was twenty seventeen,
twenty eighteen. For four years, they just you know, week
after week they began with satire and then they ended
with you know, we have the facts, this is all true.
This is uh you know, we have witnesses, we have sources,
(08:19):
and they just I mean from you name it, they
said it. It was. It was awful. I mean they
they you know, we get to after we began the
lawsuit we set up. You know, it takes me away
from important things, but I just want to kill this
guy or take him out. You know. It was it
was truly awful. I mean, Jeff can definitely do a
(08:41):
better job. But you know what I went through, My
family went through, my children went through you know some
of the some of some of this stuff. Actually josh
Resnik was in working with Andrew Esties from the Boston
Globe and she was using him as her sources for
some of her stories. You know, it was, it was,
(09:03):
it was, It was terrible. Just when I went through,
my family went through.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I mean, yeah, I think one of the stories that
I heard was that at one point your dad came
to you and he made a comment, which had to
be a frightening comment that if any of this was true,
well he said something like, then you're not my son,
or something like that. I mean, it was.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Devastating, Yeah, it was. It was devastating. You know. My
dad was, you know, former carabinarian Italy, came to America
in the late sixties to follow his sweetheart to America.
You know, he had a great life in Italy, but
came to America. My mother came to America first. Uh
so he you know, I mean his English isn't the greatest,
(09:49):
but he did read. You know, back when we were
growing up, Lead the Herald was you know, run by
the Canine family, who did a great job running the newspaper.
You know, it was a legitimate newspaper. You know, everybody
relied on the newspapers, one of the only papers in
the city. And as you know, it was one hundred
year of paper.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Year old paper, one hundred thirty nine year old paper.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Wow, yeah, it was. It was actually a really I
mean it was it's unfortunate that this family purchased his
paper for the mere reason just destroy my reputation. And
that's what they did. They bought this paper. They actually,
to the tune of about one hundred and fifty thousand
tred thousand a year used uh subplanted, I guess, so
(10:33):
used outside fund to keep it operational, just to uh
ruin my reputation. But so my dad, you know, he,
like you said, it came came to America, came to
Edward in nineteen sixty nine or sixty seven and read
this paper weekly. You know, that's just his This is
what he That's pretty much the only paper he read.
So he, you know, thought it was you know, and everybody,
(10:56):
even all the old timers and the say, a lot
of people turned against me thinking was being written in
this paper was true because everyone thinks, if it's just
a paper, it has to be true, right. The press
doesn't lie the press, The press just reports. Well, we
know that's not the case. So you know, one day,
you know what I mean, after you know, as a
continuously writing these articles and you know, and it stops stopping.
(11:20):
You know, my dad says to me, you know, this
is this is true? You know, you're not my son,
you know, and I said that, you know, yeah, this
is not true. You know, this is all false, It's
all made up. And well, how can they keep writing
this stuff? How come no one's you know, he's thinking
the government will come in and step in and shut
it down. Realize that I have to I have to,
(11:41):
I have to take a suit, you know, and that's
when you know in Matthew, it was October of twenty one.
You know, I brought Jeff Robins on Saul E Ring,
who did a remarkable job. I mean, you know, it's
kind of sad in the way that we didn't go
to trial. I was really anticipating watching Jeff's and Joe
and Page do their thing. I mean, you might other
information we had. Uh it was just incredible. I mean,
(12:05):
you know, it's it's just just uh, it would have
been it would have been great to see them uh
put this on.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
But uh, you know, the settlement speaks, speaks volumes. Mayor
let me take a pause here because we've got to
take up a commercial commercial break. We can back, Jeff.
I'd like to get into how you were able to
get all of these notes and information in which they
basically in depositions, they admitted everything that you needed. It
(12:31):
seems to me. We'll take a break back with Everett
Mayor Carlo d Maria UH and his attorney Jeff Robbins
is with now a very significant firm in town Saul Ewing,
and Jeff is the first Amendment lawyer. You know him
from this program from many other issues. He and I
feel very strongly on the issue with Israel UH and
(12:51):
the need for that country to to be able to
defend itself and for us to back that country. But
this is a different issue. With Jeff Robbins and Mayor
Carlo Di Maria tonight on Nightside, We'll be right back
if you'd like to join the conversation or like to
actually congratulate either of both of these men, because what
they did this is a long odds to win. With
(13:12):
a backdrop of New York Times versus Sullibon and give
us a call six one seven two five four ten
thirty or six one seven ninety three one ten thirty
back on Nightside right after the break.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
We're talking with Everett Mayor Carlo de Maria uh also
with his attorney Jeff Robbins, they have just settled a
defamation suit against the Everett Leader Herald newspaper for one
point one million dollars.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Jeff, Yes, that's fine, We're good now. Jeff, tell me,
how were you able to basically, through depositions, get all
of the information that you need to bring this defendant
in affected their knees and to a point where they're
willing to pay one point one million dollars and shut
(14:09):
down a thirty nine year old.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Well, well, you know, I always think about this famous line,
this supposed the story about the kid that asked John
Kennedy how he became a war hero, and supposedly he replied,
it was easy. They sank my boat. Well you know this, this,
(14:32):
this wasn't easy because, as you know, Dan is a lawyer.
This process is very arduous, full of fights over who
has to turn over what material, endless battles with a
court to get a judge to require to compel people
to turn over documents, emails, texts, and other records that
(14:55):
they don't want to turn over. It's a very expensive process.
It's a very time consuming process. It's a very dispiriting process.
It's built, as you know, and now, as the Mayor
also knows, built into our legal system, for better or
for worse. It requires a lot of effort. In those
who can't find somebody to do it'll never have the
(15:17):
chance to vindicate their rights. A long way of saying
that this process required the Leader Herald and its owner
and its editor publisher to turn over literally hundreds of
thousands of pages of emails and texts. And the hard
work was done by colleagues of mine, Joe lipshitson Page Strader,
(15:41):
who spent a lot of time we all did going
through these things and found documents that were simply amazing.
They were This is all a matter of public records,
so I'm not saying anything which isn't emails. As the
mayor said that said, you know, we're going to carry
this guy. We're going to crush this guy. We're devastating
(16:03):
this guy. We're administering a holocaust to this guy. He
can never survive this. We're going to issue an atomic attack.
And there were literally hundreds of emails and texts like that.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
In addition, how are you, yeah, how are you able
to prove that? They also knew that they just weren't
simply mistaken that they knew that what they would do.
They must have had some admissions in there that they're
making this stuff up.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Well, you're right. The deposition again all matter public record.
The deposition of each of these in the two individuals
lasted for many days, and over the course of the deposition,
in particular of mister Resnik, the editor and publisher, he
came to admit that he had no basis for making
(16:57):
the allegations that he made, that he could identify any
basis that he had fabricated them. And moreover, with respect
to one series of particularly damning stories, he ended up admitting,
having first testified falsely that he'd conducted interviews and he'd
(17:18):
kept notes, he ended up admitting that actually there were
no notes. There were no interviews, and there were no notes,
and that what he did was after the lawsuit was
filed against him, and after he'd been suboena to turnover notes,
he made copies. He went into a notebook and wrote
down stuff after the fact to make it look as
(17:38):
though there were notes when they weren't. He admitted that
he had concocted quotes which he had falsely attributed to
somebody who swears that he never said them, and on
and on it went. Every time he turned around, there
was more of that. There were emails that he'd sent
about collecting cash, thousands of dollars of cash from opponents
(18:00):
of the mayor for the purpose of funding what he
himself said was an effort to drive the mayor out
of office by sort of adding thousands and thousands of copies,
printing thousands and thousands of extra copies and delivering them
door to door for the purpose of What he said
clearly was, you know, driving the mayor out of office.
(18:22):
So the whole purpose of the paper, Yeah, this.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Was a journalistic hit job. What was the motive it was?
Was the motive to increase the circulation or was it
more of a personal motive that they said, we got
a guy here, let's let's you know, he's a target
rich environment, let's make him a target rich environment. Why, Well,
it sounds to me like how do you keep those
(18:46):
lies straight?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Well, you've asked several good questions there. The first one
is one which a lot of people ask. And again
I'm not speculating here, I'm simply telling you about what
some of the evidences that's on the public record in court.
There was testing moaning from the editor publisher that the
family that owned the paper, mister Philpin, who had an
insurance business, that had had prior contracts with the City
(19:09):
of Boston which the mayor didn't continue, who had rooming
houses and other real estate projects with the city of Everort.
Sorry did I say anything else? City ever and he
City of Everett, and he felt that the mayor was
not sufficiently favorable to the business interests of the family.
(19:31):
There's a text in which that that is what this
individual said, that he understood very clearly that his boss
wanted the mayor defeated, and that was the purpose of
the publication of the newspaper with what the evidence was.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Thank god that Mayor de Maria was able to withstand this.
I know that there was one election that turned out
to be substantially closer than anyone would have expected. We'll
talk about that, and we'll continue to talk with Everett
Mayor Carlo di Maria and his very competent attorney, his
(20:09):
defamation lawyer, Jeff Robbins of saul Ewing LLP. This is
this is a good day for journalism because there is
within the journalistic community still people like this, people like
the Alex Joneses of the world, who will do anything.
He's the guy that said that the massacre in Newtown,
(20:29):
Connecticut at that school was made up. There. I just
think that, Look, I'm the journalist, but a journalist for
a long time, but this is well deserved. If you'd
like to join the conversation, ask a question if you're
from Everett, Field free six one's seven, two five, four
ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
We'll continue with our conversation learning a little bit about
(20:52):
defamation law and then in the context of this case
against the backdrop of a very famous federal case New
York Times Sullivan, We'll be back on night Side right
after this.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
We're talking about an interesting case which Everett Mayor Carlo
di Maria was defamed by a local newspaper and by
the editor and publisher of that newspaper over a long
period of time. And uh and it was some very brutal,
brutal comments that were made and Mayor Dean Maria, this
(21:33):
had to take a toll on you. And on your family.
There was one race I forget what, I forget what
year it was, which you almost lost in large part
because of the lives that this newspaper was spreading.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Oh yeah, yeah. They they actually at one time they
put on a ten week campaign from about a month
prior to the primary and after the primary up to
the election. It was week after week, every Wednesday, delivered
to every home in the city, and they just, uh
(22:07):
the lies were you know, extortion, uh, kickbacks, demily, a
crime family, uh, quid pro quo, uh, settling, all kinds
of harassment, lawsuits with females, put a knife to a girl. Stroke.
It was it was. It was awful. I mean it
was like week after week after week lies and uh
(22:29):
you know, so you know, it was it was just
it was just a U yeah, it was. It was awful.
I mean it was completely awful. Yeah. Someone just actually
interrupted me and I was talking here.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
It none of this had any you know, look, if
if you had had a let's say something like a
car accident, okay, and let's assume that there was some
little in situation where you yelled at the other guy, hey,
why'd you do? And if they had something to work
on that was genuine, but just make stuff up out
of whole cloth and then try to basically drive you
(23:06):
out of office.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah, that's right. I mean you were saying it was close. Yeah,
I mean, you think about it, Daan, if a hundred
people changed am I on that election, I would have
been out of office, disgraced. People would have believed this newspaper.
They would have continuously still writing all this awful, terrible stuff.
I wouldn't have the ability to have, you know, filed
this lawsuit against them. Yeah. I mean, you know we
(23:32):
were pulling prior to you know, they they really ramped
it up in twenty twenty one. I mean that last
year prior to my election, they rarely ramped it up.
I mean, the the lies were awful, so bad that
I mean I was in a bad place mentally, truly
(23:52):
was because you know, people were believing it. People were
sharing the articles with friends, you know, family members, people,
you know. I would see my neighbors were asking me,
you know, we're questioning everything I was doing. I mean
it was terrible. I mean I talked about how my
father asked me that question, you know, I mean he
(24:12):
wrote it so that you know that you know it
was as a matter of fact, you know these there
was a matter of fact. We have sources, we have
people interviewing with us. You know, it was it was, Yeah,
it was something godly awful.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
And I mean the media and Jeff can get it
in this as well. The media has tremendous powers in
this country, Okay, to influence elections. Different case, different story,
But obviously had the Alex Jones case, the nut job
down in Texas who was basically saying the horror that
(24:49):
he visited upon the families of those kids and parents
of the six school teachers and the twenties children who
were massacred on that horrific decevery day. He did it
to basically make him a bigger and bolder a political figure.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
George Stephanopolis has been suited. Apparently ABC has agreed and
helped me out here, Jeff on this one. I believe
that ABC, in a similar fashion, has agreed to a
settlement to pay fifteen million dollars to the Donald Trump
Library because Stephanopolos is apparently saying something about Donald Trump
(25:27):
which was factually incorrect, continued to say it even after
his producers cautioned him not to say that that Trump
had been convicted of rape when I mean, the power
of the media is incredible, but it cannot it cannot
be used in a way in which it can be
it can be used to destroy people's lives.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Well, yeah, you're absolutely right. The ABC settlement was fifteen
million dollars. And you can see the interview in which
George Stefanopolis, in the process of interviewing Congress Will and Mace,
says I think at least four times that Donald Trump
was found libel for rape, which actually is not true.
(26:10):
The jury slip specifically said that they did not find
him liable for rape. And your point, though the larger one,
is a very good one. There is, on one hand,
this absolutely crucial need, crucial need for the First Amendment
to be robust and to protect a free press, especially
visa the government. But on the other hand, as you
also say, there is a potential for terrible abusive power,
(26:34):
just like there's a terrible potential for abuseive power in
every other entity enterprise in American life. There's that capacity
for massive abuse of power, given how much power the
press has, if people are cocky or or dishonest, or
are too interested in clicks and shares to be focused
(26:56):
on printing the truth.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I think that the social media, the arrival of social media,
and it inundates our lives these days. Jeff, and I'm
just curious if you think that has contributed to the
sort of wild west attitude that maybe this small newspaper
it ever had towards mayor de Marine.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Absolutely, and wild west is absolutely the perfect phrase for it.
That is what the media landscape is. More and more
and more, it's pretty much, you know, everybody is a
media entity, unto himself or herself. There's an enormous pressure
to get clicks and shares and attention. It's also part
of American culture, and it also drives every media enterprise large, small,
(27:40):
medium sized to get out there and grab attention. And
if that means being reckless or clever or pandering to
a particular segment, well then that's what they do. There
are some people who feel as though that that's their
financial model, you know, So you're right.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
I just think it's there has to be a clear
demarcation between I will read op ed columns, you're writing
an op ed column. There are people going to disagree
with your op ed piece, your conclusion. I don't, but
but others will.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
And that's what the op ed page is all about.
But when you start putting out something as factual and
putting out in the concept this is a news I'm
reporting this as a newsperson as opposed to this is
my opinion.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Uh. That's that's where where the line becomes very, very shaky.
And that's where I think this guy Resnick went way
over that line. And obviously the newspaper's out of business.
What what's the what is the papers plan? Are they
going to come back in some other entity at this point?
Or does does Everett going to have another newspaper mayor
(28:49):
what's is there any idea what you know? Obviously, Everett
is a big city that is a lot smaller than Boston,
and you got the Globe in the Herald, But it's
also good to have a local newspaper for as well. Correct.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
We have two other local newspapers that do it good,
decent enough job to report what's going on in the city.
Speaker 6 (29:09):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
You know, we put what's currency, not create Uh you
know what's going on in the city, right. Uh. And
that's the problem with the press I think today is
that every time you listen to a different news station
and you read a different article, it's it's uh, it's
their opinions. You know, no one's reporting anymore. That's how
I see it. I mean, it's just between the social
(29:32):
media and and you know that that's why you see
so many people that are depressed, children that are pressed families.
I mean, it's just bad. I mean it's it's it's
a bad time and it's unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
But the best example, I think right now, and maybe
Jeff to come up with a better one, is this guy,
Alex Jones has a tremendous that's awful. A lot of
people are can He doesn't say it's his opinion. He
basically blusters and said, no, this was set up, this
was this was a this was a false flag. Uh,
(30:09):
these children weren't, weren't massacred. This He basically made it
sound like a Hollywood movie. And he wasn't saying it's
his opinion. He's saying it's fact. And and he was
sued Jeff, thankfully, and I think that eventually his whole
media empire will collapse and and he and he deserves it.
(30:29):
I mean, this guy made no this just as somebody
who takes journalism kind of seriously. I look at this
guy and I think, what an impostor he's He pretends
he's a journalist, but he's anything but a journalist.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
And obviously there's a lot of people like that.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah. No, no one worse than him though, in terms
of in terms of ye in size and and and
the damage that he that he did. Let's take a
quick break, gentlemen. I want to one more with you,
and again, if folks want to call in, I'd love
to hear from you. Six thirty Jeff. As you know,
whenever we talk legal issuers, a lot of people are
intimidated and they want to listen to what you and
(31:11):
the mayor has to say. But folks can certainly call
in if they'd like. Six one, seven, nine, three thirty.
Coming right back on the Nightside.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Nightside Studios.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I'm WBZ News Radio. It's got a couple of phone
calls in here. Let me go to Joe in Everett. Joe,
welcome to Nightside. Appreciate you calling in your first this
hour Nightside. Joe.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Hey, Dan, I'm an Everett resident. I just want the
meet and know that the people have ever support him,
whether it's getting new sidewalks. I live on Woodward Street.
You know enough, that's enough with these people, these crazy people.
You know, you had a tough time in the school
department with the crazies in the school department and now
this thing. So the people have evert support him, and
I hope he run for reelection again.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Well, thank you right there, go ahead, Mayor.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Thanks Joe. I appreciate that. It means a lot. I
appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So when you rather, Mayor, what do you what's realize
is a two year term? You have a four year trim.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Uh no, the four year term and uh reelection would
be next year, would.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Be twenty twenty five. What are you thinking?
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Let's make some news, you know what you know, leaning
towards running for reelection right now? You know this is
definitely putting this behind us and shut down the leader
Harold uh for good. Uh is a great start, and
you definitely didn't want to go through that again. Having that,
you know that news shaper and business and writing and stuff.
(32:34):
That's it's writing, you know, you know, we feel very
optimistic about running it again, and you know, papers to
come out in the springtime. So right now, I'm just
trying to you know, it's it's been a long road. Uh,
just kind of really just you know, realizing that.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
You have a right to take it. You have a
right to take a big deep breath, uh and realize
that that at the end of this things worked out
really well. And I suspect that if you did decide
to run for reelection in view of what has happened, uh,
that that you'd be that you be returned pretty easily.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
What you definitely have a lot of projects to get done.
There's a lot of a lot of things that we
want to get done right Uh. You know that that
pedestrian footbridge from Assemble Row over to the Encore Casino.
We're trying to get phase two off the ground, the stadium.
I have a new high school we're trying to get built,
trying to work with the governor, now the te they
(33:34):
get a couple of commuterial stops in the area. But
there is a lot of work to get done. And
that's one of the things that is driving me to
uh to look to run it in To be honest
with you, thank you, you care about you care about
the working class people. I just have to say that,
you really do. So I wanted to thank you. Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas, Joe, thank you my friend.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
All right, thanks Joe. Iks appreciate you calling it. So
you have served how many terms? This is finishing your
second term mayor? Is that correct? Or more?
Speaker 4 (34:03):
No? I uh, I've completed three two year terms and
this will be my third four year term.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Oh so they changed it to the four year term. Okay,
so you've been mayor there for If I'm eighteen years,
this year will be your eighteen year. If I did my.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Math, ye, this year coming up will be eighteen years correct.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Okay, Well again, keep us posted on that. I want
to just swing back to Jeff for a second. Jeff,
there's more than than just a case here.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
This has generated a lot of attention in newspapers, not
only across the America but around the world. What's the
lesson here? What? What? What? This has to stand for?
Something more than just one rogue newspaper in one city
outside of Boston. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
And I say this as somebody who is involved in journalism,
who loves journalism and journalists, who represents newspapers and media organizations.
But there is I think, as we all know, a
fair amount of mistrust more than fair, a very severe
amount of mistrust of the media in this country, clearly,
and this is the kind of case which I think
proves the point for a lot of people who think
(35:14):
that there are folks who have this power and don't
wield it in an honest way. And unfortunately there are
instances where that occurs, plenty of them. This was an
egregious example of it, and I think that's why it's
captured so much attention.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Their final comment from you, You've gone through this, It
was not fun to go through. You've emerged on the
other side with your reputation intact, and the possibility of
serving four more years in the city that you have
served so well for eighteen years. I don't want to
(35:55):
ask you was it worth it? But what's the lesson
that you took from this, this whole experience.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
The lesson that I took from this whole experience? Yeah, uh,
when you when you when you need when you need help,
call Jeff Robinson. Yeah you know, Uh, I don't know
the lesson I learned from this. It definitely, uh definitely
made me a stronger person, more resilient, person, you know,
(36:28):
you know, maybe I guess journalists out there too, you know,
have some integrity. When you're writing a story and you
know someone calls you and tells you something, and you
write a story allegations about somebody, Maybe do some more research,
you know, not don't just print something and say, oh this,
you know, allegedly this person did this or that. Do
(36:51):
the real work, you know, do the real work and
make sure you're not ruining someone's life, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
So that's a lesson that all journalists should have. Let
me get one more in here, real quickly before we
gotta before we got to break here. Let me one
last caller. Ken is checking in here. Ken, you were
next to night side your call on late. I give
you about a thirty seconds or a minute, go ahead, Ken.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
Yes. I read two books by this gentleman, Josh Wesnick,
and they're in the public library in Chelsea, and they
discussed the Chelsea fire. I think maybe the penalty was
a little harsh one the gentleman.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Well, he might have written written good books about the
Chelsea fire. Ken, But like anything else, if if you
have a great surgeon, and he's been a great surgeon,
but he does surgery on you and he screws you
up for life.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
That's that's a problem. And what he tried to do
to Carlo, to the mayor of Everett, has been proven.
What and and I think that there's a lesson for
all journalists who feel that they can basically go out
and hunt public officials as you would hunt, you know,
an animal in the woods during hunting season.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
That's not what journalists are supposed to do this.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
They're supposed to consider the the information they have, consider
their sources, check it in double checking.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Appreciate you call again nonetheless. All right, thanks very much,
Jeff Robbins, Thank you so much. Mayor Dee Maria. I
wish you a merry Christmas. I know it's going to
be a merry Christmas for you and Jeff. I wish
you and your as a happy honker, and I know
it's going to be a happy honker for your family
as well. Every once in a while, the good guys
do win, and I think of this one, the good
(38:34):
guys won. Thanks guys. I appreciate it so much.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Damn, thank you so very much.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
All Right, guys, talk to you soon. When we get back.
We're going to talk with Joey voices, a great entertainer
who is gonna have a little bit of fun right
after the nine o'clock news. Here are nights i'd stay
with us and we're gonna be doing talking with the
car guys from ten to twelve. There was someone today
who had a question about a car. I had no idea. Uh,
(39:00):
all I gotta do is call the car guys. They
will answer all your questions. Coming back on the night,
said right after this
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